[encore] Phoebe Bridgers

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Don't Ask Tig" – [Encore] Phoebe Bridgers

Podcast Information:

• Title: Don't Ask Tig
• Host: Tig Notaro
• Episode: [Encore] Phoebe Bridgers
• Release Date: March 27, 2024
• Produced by: American Public Media

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Introduction and Acknowledgements

Tig Notaro opens the episode with a heartfelt message sharing the recent passing of her stepfather, Rick, who played the character Bill on her TV series One Mississippi. Tig reflects on their deep bond and the unexpected nature of his death due to pneumonia and C. Diff, coinciding eerily with the 10-year anniversary of her mother's and stepfather's passing. She expresses gratitude for the support from friends, family, and fans, highlighting the therapeutic experience of returning to the stage after such a loss. Tig reassures listeners that this episode featuring Phoebe Bridgers is an encore recording, maintaining the show's comedic essence despite the somber opening.

Tig Notaro [02:22]: "I didn't think I was going to lose him. Like I said, it was unexpected. He developed pneumonia after he had choked on some food that went into his lung and that caused pneumonia."

Introducing Phoebe Bridgers

Tig introduces Phoebe Bridgers, a critically acclaimed singer-songwriter whose second album, Punisher, garnered four Grammy nominations, including Best New Artist. Phoebe is also known for her work with the bands Boygenius and Better Oblivion Community Center. The introduction sets the stage for an engaging and introspective conversation about music, creativity, personal growth, and more.

Phoebe Bridgers [04:06]: "Sorry. Am I allowed to curse on this podcast?"

Discussion on Music and Creativity

The conversation delves into Phoebe's musical themes, often blending pain, joy, sorrow, and redemptive beauty. Phoebe attributes the resonance of her music to her genuine enjoyment of the creative process, emphasizing the importance of artists loving what they do for it to translate authentically to their audience.

Phoebe Bridgers [05:29]: "I don't know. I think that that's what I look for in music. So I hope that I am bringing that same thing to the table that I look for."

Tig and Phoebe discuss the challenges of finding one's unique voice in the entertainment industry, the importance of trust in oneself, and the collaborative nature of creative endeavors. Phoebe shares anecdotes from her performances, including a memorable show before Billie Eilish's set, illustrating the pressures and spontaneity involved in live performances.

Phoebe Bridgers [08:31]: "I just think life is more fun like that. ... What I would have worked on me, honestly, like, I have no idea."

Personal Experiences and Growth

Phoebe opens up about her personal experiences, including her relationship with her mother, who is also a comedian. She recounts the challenges of attending her mother's stand-up shows and the humorous dynamic between them.

Phoebe Bridgers [14:03]: "I don't really drink a lot. ... She roasts me a lot, but I can take it. It's fine."

The conversation transitions to listener questions, with Tig facilitating discussions on parenting and personal development. Phoebe offers candid and relatable insights based on her own upbringing and experiences.

Listener Q&A: Navigating Parenting Challenges

Listener Neil writes in about his seven-year-old daughter who self-sabotages before planned outdoor activities, seeking advice on balancing discipline with support for her mental and physical health.

Phoebe provides empathetic responses, drawing from her childhood experiences of acting out and recognizing the complexities of parenting. Together, they explore the importance of understanding a child's feelings and fostering open communication rather than relying solely on punishment.

Phoebe Bridgers [25:04]: "I try to kill my little brother pretty much every Day. ... I don't know what would have worked on me, honestly."

Confession Booth: Addressing Guilt and Past Relationships

In the Confession Booth segment, listener Leanne shares her struggle with guilt over an affair with a married man during her early twenties. Tig and Phoebe offer compassionate advice, emphasizing personal responsibility and the importance of therapy in processing such emotions.

Phoebe Bridgers [37:08]: "I've dated married people before, and I've been... manipulated. It's not really fair, especially when there's an age gap."

They discuss the long-term emotional impact of past relationships and the necessity of moving forward without lingering guilt, reinforcing the idea that the responsibility lies primarily with those directly involved.

Dreams and Subconscious Reflections

Phoebe discusses her experiences with recurring dreams, describing a once-familiar but now elusive imaginary town. The conversation touches on the role of dreams in personal reflection and mental health, with Tig and Phoebe sharing their own peculiar dreams and nightmares.

Phoebe Bridgers [30:38]: "I used to go Back to the same town in my dreams. ... it was awesome."

Final Thoughts and Promotions

As the episode concludes, Phoebe promotes new music from Muna, a band on her label, highlighting her continued support for emerging artists. Tig expresses admiration for Phoebe's work and their collaborative history, celebrating her contributions to music and comedy.

Tig Notaro [41:23]: "You and I did Corden with us. ... I love your music like everybody else alive."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tig Notaro [00:47]: "I didn't think I was going to lose him. Like I said, it was unexpected."
• Phoebe Bridgers [05:29]: "I think that that's what I look for in music."
• Phoebe Bridgers [14:03]: "She roasts me a lot, but I can take it. It's fine."
• Phoebe Bridgers [25:04]: "I have no idea what would have worked on me, honestly."
• Phoebe Bridgers [37:08]: "It's not really fair, especially when there's an age gap."
• Phoebe Bridgers [30:38]: "It was awesome."

---

Conclusion

This encore episode of "Don't Ask Tig" featuring Phoebe Bridgers offers a blend of heartfelt personal stories, insightful discussions on creativity and personal growth, and relatable advice on parenting and emotional well-being. Tig Notaro and Phoebe Bridgers create a conversational space that is both engaging and comforting, providing valuable perspectives for listeners navigating life's various challenges.

For more episodes and to send in your own questions, visit dontasigtig.org and follow "Don't Ask Tig" on social media.

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This summary is intended for informational purposes and is based on the transcript provided. For the full experience, listeners are encouraged to tune into the actual podcast episode.

Transcript

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[Tig Notaro]

Hey Danas and Beckys. What you're about to hear is an encore presentation of one of our favorite episodes from the Don't Ask Tig archives. Please enjoy.

Welcome back Danas and Beckys.

Gosh, it has been a few weeks.

Took some time off and unexpectedly my stepfather passed away. My stepfather Rick, who maybe you knew as the character Bill on my TV series One Mississippi. He raised me since I was two. We had quite the relationship. You know, when my mother passed away 10 years ago, it cracked him open in a way. The circumstances, life and just kind of having to step up to parenting me and my brother, even though we were adults and my biological father had passed away soon after my mother. So Rick was our parent and very sadly, that was my last parent. And we really, over the past 10 years, grew together. And so much of it had to do with his love for my children, Max and Finn. He absolutely lived for them. And it's been very, very painful, to say the least. I didn't think I was going to lose him. Like I said, it was unexpected. He developed pneumonia after he had choked on some food that went into his lung and that caused pneumonia. And very eerily, after taking antibiotics, he developed C. Diff, the disease that I had 10 years ago.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

And.

[Tig Notaro]

And that is what killed him. It also landed on the 10 year anniversary of the day I took my mother off life support and I took Rick off of life support. It's just been very surreal. So heavy, so hard. And I want to acknowledge everyone that's reached out, friends, family that have been there, strangers I don't even know that have written in, people that have come to shows, being on stage. The first time back on stage was in Denver and then Salt Lake City the night after. And it was just almost an hour and a half of like being able to think about something else for a second and actually enjoy myself. So I appreciate it more than you might ever know. And yes, this is a comedy podcast and if this is your first time tuning in, this is not how they normally Start off, but I just wanted to touch base because this episode you're about to hear was recorded previously. So it's a really great episode. And she's one of the best, I would say, easily of all time, already out of the gate in her career. So please enjoy this episode with Phoebe Bridgers.

If I was surrounded by ghosts, it would not affect my sleep whatsoever.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, I'm way more scared of people.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. He said he would prefer a live person holding a gun to his face.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

That is insane.

[Tig Notaro]

That's insane. Thank you.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Sorry. Am I allowed to curse on this podcast?

[Tig Notaro]

You know what? We're bleeping out every word you say, so it's as though you're not even here.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Wait, I can say shoot and stuff if it helps.

[Tig Notaro]

Shooting stuff.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Shooting stuff.

[Tig Notaro]

This is don't ask Tig. I'm Tig Notaro and the sound of you not asking is music to my ears. With me now is a songwriter singer whose second album, Punisher, earned four Grammy nominations, including Best New Artist. She's also a member of the bands Boy Genius and Better Oblivion Community Center. Phoebe Bridgers, thank you for joining me today.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Thank you for having me.

[Tig Notaro]

Now, your music has been described as mixing pain and joy and sorrow and redemptive beauty. Millions of listeners have connected with that. Why do you think those themes are so resonant?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I don't know. I think that that's what I look for in music. So I hope that I am bringing that same thing to the table that I look for. I like it. I feel like that's a weird thing to say, but I like my music, so I hope that the people who.

[Tig Notaro]

That's not weird. Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Like it also for the same reasons. You know what I mean?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I feel like you have to enjoy what you're doing for it to translate well.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Right. Like, if you didn't think you were funny, it would be, like, draining. Like. Like you disagree with the people who thought you were funny. Which I think is what happens to some, like, one hit wonder bands or whatever that think they sold out or don't like creatively what they're doing. And then when tons of people come to the shows, they're like, they disagree about if it's good or not. And that sounds soul sucking.

[Tig Notaro]

There's so many elements. It could be soul sucking in the world of entertainment.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And I think you really have to find that. I'm sorry, do I hear a pug snorting?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

A pug is in my lap. A pug is protecting me right now. During this podcast.

[Tig Notaro]

I can only assume that's your pug.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

It's my pug? Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

You want to introduce your pug?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah. This is Maxine.

[Tig Notaro]

Are you kidding me? My cat's middle name is Maxine. I'm serious. My cat's name is Fluff. Maxine.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

That's awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

Yes.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Maybe we should give Maxine a middle name right now.

[Tig Notaro]

How about Fluff?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Maxine Fluff, Totally. She's not very fluffy. She's kind of fishy.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, Fluff wasn't fluffy when we named her Fluff. It was what my mother used to call me when I came out of my bedroom in the mornings and my hair was standing up.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Amazing.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, hello, Maxine.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

She says hello.

[Tig Notaro]

So, Phoebe, you've said that the best advice you've ever been given was from a band member who said your greatest ideas are your jokes. As a comedian, I'm curious for you to elaborate on that.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, I mean, we just talked about that. Julian and Lucy and I all talked about that. Like, half of it is to do with you tell a joke and then someone's like, that's actually a great idea. But also some of it is like a self protective thing where you're like, wouldn't it be stupid if we screamed at the end of this? But actually you think it's a cool idea and you're waiting for people to be like, no, that's a great idea.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

What?

Right, Like Julian had a guitar solo on tour where she like put her foot up on the monitor. Like, stupid. That we can only get away with with each other.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I just think life is more fun like that. My friend Hayley Dahl says the same thing. She's in a band called Sloppy Jane, but she says that every time she thinks something, she has to do it. So luckily she doesn't have any murderous thoughts. But she has. Like, I should get up on that table.

[Tig Notaro]

Aside from even jokes, like, do you do that? Is there a lot of room for going with what crosses your mind? I do it. I show up to my shows with my jokes and stories, but then if something crosses my mind, I'm like, I don't know how this is going to come out, but I have to share this.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally. I think I have diarrhea of the mouth with that. Like, I'll say literally anything that I'm thinking. But physically, like, for stage stuff, like, Haley is really dynamic on stage, but if I move around on stage at all, I'll mess up. I remember we played a bunch right before Billie Eilish's set on this last tour at a bunch of festivals, and she's got this big, like, catwalk that she goes out onto. And I was, like, looking at it and I was like, it's weird to play this whole show without going out on the catwalk. So I walked out onto it with my microphone and then just bailed. Like, I was, like, gonna go out there and, like, move around or something. And I just walked maybe three feet onto it and was like, I'm gonna turn back around now. That's not something I'm gonna do.

[Tig Notaro]

Eject. Eject.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, totally. Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

Just hearing you talk about doing a show with a catwalk and doing shows with Billie Eilish, I'm thinking about when I saw you last. It was right before, I think, the Pandemic started.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yes.

[Tig Notaro]

And popping up in your garden song video.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, I.

[Tig Notaro]

You were. You were doing well, but I don't feel like there's a catwalk on stage or.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

No, no, no. Yeah. I had the unique experience of getting a lot more people to like my music throughout the Pandemic, which is just so weird. And, you know, having not toured for, like, two years and then going on the tour was insane. I was thinking about that today. I'm like, I'm sure I'll talk about this a lot for the rest of my life, but, like, it is just insane. Like, I haven't. I haven't really thought about it enough.

[Tig Notaro]

I just imagine your life has changed a bit totally in the past couple of years. I mean, everybody's life has changed.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah. When I saw you, I had had the same apartment since I was 18. You know, like, I finally got a house and I. Yeah, I had a studio apartment that. It must have had, like, a Murphy bed in it at some point or something, because it's just way too small. And I was there for the Pandemic. It was a total nightmare.

[Tig Notaro]

So I like to picture you in a gigantic sprawling mansion with just a Murphy bed in your new play.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

I was also thinking about how I had the pleasure of having you open for me at Largo. I can't imagine if that happened again. If I were to say, please welcome Phoebe Bridgers. At this point, I don't think Largo would be standing anymore.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I see. I have a great time at Largo. I wasn't there that long ago. I played for Pete Holmes's show.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I love Largo, like, weirdly more than anything. I love showing up and playing, like, two songs at stuff.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

You get to be choosier with what you Play. Which I love.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Like, I feel like it really tells you what your favorite stuff is about yourself.

[Tig Notaro]

Hmm. Yes. Yes.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I love a short set.

[Tig Notaro]

Now, what is your connection with all of the spooky stuff? The skeletons and, you know, the song Halloween?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I just like it. I've always loved that. Like, did you ever read that story when you were a kid of the girl with the green ribbon around her neck?

[Tig Notaro]

No.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Spoiler alert. Her head falls off. When she takes off the ribbon. It's attaching her head. It's like a mystery why she has this ribbon. It's a tiny book that I feel like everybody at some point got from the library who likes spooky stuff.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah. It's deep rooted spookiness.

[Tig Notaro]

Do you believe in ghosts?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I wish. I think I want it too bad. I want it too bad.

[Tig Notaro]

See, my assistant is so scared of ghosts, and we stayed at a bed and breakfast because I like to stay really close to where I'm performing in case there's any mishap, I can just run over to the show.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

And so he was like, there's this little cute bed and breakfast. And I was like, those can be real hit or miss, but okay. And he said, I'm pretty sure it's fully haunted. And I said, and worst case scenario, let's say there's ghosts everywhere. What could they do? Like, they're not there or they're shaking a chain. And he was like, oh, God. Oh, my God. The hair just stood up on the back of my neck. And. And he couldn't sleep that night. Now, do you feel like you're somebody that gives good advice?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I have given historically bad advice, but I've also given good advice.

[Tig Notaro]

That's why I called you.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Give me an example.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

My friend was having a, like, a family problem recently, and I was like, well, do you even like these people? Why are you engaging with this? Like, why does it bother you so much if they're behaving the way that you're describing? Why are these people in your life? She, like, burst into tears and was like, I love them.

[Tig Notaro]

You're just like, scram.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

My reaction was like, stop talking to your family.

[Tig Notaro]

And do you feel like you would do that or you have to.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, for sure.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

For sure. Yeah. I can't relate to the. Like, I just found out my dad has a second family, and how can I negotiate my relationship now? I'm like, what?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I feel like I just can't imagine. I'm just like. I cut them off Person.

[Tig Notaro]

Right. And speaking of your family, I'm just now remembering your mother's a comedian.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

She is.

[Tig Notaro]

How is her stand up career going?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

It is going great. I don't really drink a lot.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Ever. And I was pretty young when she started. Like, I was, I want to say I was like 22.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

And I. And I was really not drinking a lot at the time. But when she did it the first time and invited me, I got so wasted. I was so nervous and it was great. She roasts me a lot, but I can take it. It's fine.

[Tig Notaro]

That's awesome. All right, well, Phoebe, let's help my listeners. Our first question was sent in by a fan of yours.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Great. I love those.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, they're good. Early writes. I am almost 13 and I love art and music. I would love to pursue a career in either or both of these things, but I don't know where to start when it comes to getting my work out there. It's also tricky because I'm younger. I feel like people won't take me seriously or just think that I have no idea what I'm doing. Also just wanted to say that I love you, Phoebe, and thank you so much for everything you do.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I love you too. That's so cool.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

You know, this is a bad day for me to get this question because I was thinking Today about being 16 and making music and really believing in myself and then now wishing that it was all scrubbed from the Internet. You know what I mean? Like, people just find stuff about you forever. But then I have friends like Connor, whose band when he was 13 is awesome. It's so weird. Like, I wish, I wish someone had stopped me, but Connor got signed really early and he's making all these recordings for when he's a teenager now and they're beautiful. So I don't know, I think both of us had a great outcome.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I think if you make art and you do it all the time and you love it, you will meet people like that, the connections stuff will become obvious to you because all your friends do it and they'll be like, hey, I'm going to go to this art show this weekend. And you'll go to it because you love it. Like, I just feel like it happens because you're into it.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. I mean, everybody has such a different path to getting to where they're going, especially in artistic endeavors. But I would say for sure, 100% of the time, nobody, when they consider that they've made it, they didn't take a path that somebody else. Exactly.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Took totally.

[Tig Notaro]

And it was just believing in themselves and doing what they were doing. And there are so many people that come along and they can change the path of your life. You can't really ever plan to meet those people.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally. I still play with people I met when I was 13 and then there are people who I thought I was going to be working with forever or collaborating with forever, who I barely know anymore.

[Tig Notaro]

Isn't that crazy?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I think it's awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, listen, I mean, I have people that I have worked with or they were my creative partner. And we could not be further apart. Totally about comedy or writing or even the way of the world where you're just like, whoa, yeah, we have parted ways, haven't we?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah. Some of the ways that I thought it would all happen, quote unquote, just turned out to be the opposite of good.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

But I think they all needed to happen, you know?

[Tig Notaro]

For sure. Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I think some of the my, like the things I've learned from the most are like the worst show I ever played. And you know, playing to one person is very humbling. Someone who came in your car to the show and nobody bought tickets. That's. It's great.

[Tig Notaro]

I had a humbling moment when I played a college and nobody was there. And the people that booked me had me still do my hour and I sat on a couch with a microphone and told it to the two people on the couch. And I did not think I had much of a career ahead of me. Well.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Cause it's the college kids who book, right? So. Yeah, I had that too. I had that at Berklee School of Music. Except it was weirdly more embarrassing because they had an engineering class, like a music engineering class. They booked me to play a show. So it wasn't two people. It was the entire engineering class who had just 13 people. Just set up my microphone and stuff. And they're all like standing to the sides and nobody comes. Like. I was also like, no venue even is staffed like this.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

You know, nobody's like wrapping a cable with five other people.

[Tig Notaro]

I wish I could say I was embarrassed when I performed on a couch to those two faces, but I was kind of like, great, I can sit down and you're gonna still pay me the cash. Here you go.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

Here's what I think is funny, but early, I would say you just have to develop a sense of trust in yourself. And even if you're a stand up comedian or a singer songwriter, it's not necessarily a solo thing that you're doing because writers, comedians, actors, producers, it's not in a vacuum as much as people might think that it is, because I feel like we all learn from each other and we borrow from one another. And I always think about, there's this poster, and if anybody finds it, I will pay you $5. But I love it so much, I've never seen it again. I saw it in 1991 or something. And Woody Guthrie was standing at the chalkboard pointing to lyrics that he wrote on the board. Bob Dylan was sitting in the front row of the classroom taking notes. And then Bruce Springsteen was sitting next to Bob Dylan and he was looking over on Bob's paper.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Whoa.

[Tig Notaro]

And I think maybe Tom Petty was sitting behind Bruce. And then. I don't like this part. John Mellencamp was in the corner with a dunce hat on. I like John Mellencamp. I like all of those musicians. But I just loved it so much and I've never been able to find it.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

That's awesome. I think John Mellencamp doesn't let people look him in the eyes.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Like he has a security guard be like, don't look at him.

[Tig Notaro]

You know what? I hear that about different people.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I love that.

[Tig Notaro]

What? Hearing gossip like that.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I love that stuff. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. Are people allowed to look you in the eye?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

For sure.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. Nobody can even glance my way early. There's some musician art talk from a musical genius herself. Phoebe, it's time for a break and we'll be back with more questions.

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[Phoebe Bridgers]

I was told this was a quiz program.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, just so you know.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I just thought it was. Did I know it'd be writing Ripping.

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[Tig Notaro]

And we're back. Phoebe, as I mentioned at the top, your second solo album is titled Punisher. This next question concerns punishment. Neil writes, my daughter, who is seven, constantly self sabotages with bad behavior just prior to fun outdoor activities that I planned for her and her brother's mental and physical health. For instance, we had to punish her for her poor behavior right before taking her tobogganing with her brother. We felt we couldn't reward her by taking her tobogganing, even though it would have been great for her mentally to go. How can I balance the need for my daughter to have these fun excursions and not seem like we're rewarding her bad behavior by allowing her to go, Neil, Neil.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

What? What does bad behavior mean?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, what? What is she doing? But also, it feels like if you're planning activities for their mental and physical health, I'm sure you mean well. It just feels a little tightly wound. Or a little controlling maybe.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Oh yeah, there's nothing I hated more.

[Tig Notaro]

Than like a big plan as a kid.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

As a kid. But I don't know. Like I. I'm speaking from the lens of a kid who acted out vastly like I try to kill my little brother pretty much every Day.

[Tig Notaro]

Mm.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

But I don't know what. What would have worked on me, honestly, like, I have no idea.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, what about being asked? Like, what if this daughter. Do you know if she likes tobogganing? Have you asked her? Do you want to go tobogganing? Would that have helped for you, Phoebe, if somebody was like, hey, I think so.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Mostly with ballet. Would you like to do ballet? Absolutely not. And then maybe I wouldn't have acted out as much.

[Tig Notaro]

How long did you do ballet?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Like, two seconds. I was probably, like, seven. My mom would get in the car, I would have my ballet outfit on. As soon as she buckled her seatbelt, I would unbuckle my seatbelt so she would have to go back and buckle my seatbelt. Like, I threw public tantrums pretty much everywhere. I cracked my skull open, writhing because my mom didn't let me, like, pick something out at, like, a craft fair.

[Tig Notaro]

Wow.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I don't know what. What would have worked. So, yeah, I don't have great parenting advice, but maybe tobogganing is a punishment. Maybe that's. Maybe not going. Is the punishment.

[Tig Notaro]

I just can't help but wonder, maybe she doesn't find these activities fun. Maybe she's afraid of tobogganing. That could be something. Maybe there's some fear somewhere.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I feel like it depends on what the bad behavior is. If she's, like, bullying other kids, sure. But if it's like, I don't want to go, yeah, totally. A little bit of bad behavior, I'm not super worried about it.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. And I feel like when you just punish a kid with no information, then I feel like you're only going to get maybe a negative reaction, you know?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

She is only 7, but she might be able to give you some insight into her feelings.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

And I feel like just punishment closes that door to the conversation.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

I mean, it's something I'm always having to try and figure out with my two little cubs. They're almost six. And, you know, we have those little moments where it's like, what is happening?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

And it could just be chalked up to a bad day. But it's confusing for a child to be punished and then taken down a hill on a toboggan, I would imagine, you know, and be like, okay, now it's time to have fun for your mental health. We. Hold on. Here we go. For sure. I would say open up the conversation and figure out what she likes and what she wants to do and how she's feeling and is she scared of anything but I mean, Phoebe Bridgers doesn't know. Shouldn't have kids.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I have no idea.

[Tig Notaro]

And she used to throw fits.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I did.

[Tig Notaro]

So why. Why are we even asking her? Neil, come on.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Neil.

[Tig Notaro]

I don't know. I hope that was helpful.

We're going to take a quick break to answer a question that came in our therapy etiquette inbox. This segment is where we answer those awkward questions we all have as people getting the professional help we need and deserve. And is sponsored by Better Help online therapy. This one was sent in from Catherine in Houston, Texas. Catherine writes, I've had the same therapist.

For eight years, and I was paired.

With her because the therapists in the group thought she was similar to my dead mom and thought there might be some healing transference. Well, there wasn't just me being happy.

I had a new mom.

I wanted to tell her, I love.

You, but I didn't.

Can you ever tell a therapist you love them?

Katherine, maybe the next time you chat.

With your therapist, you can say something.

Like, I want to admit that I.

Feel a strong urge to tell you.

That I love you, but when I think about this impulse, it makes me feel this way or that way or.

What, however you want to word it.

And then say, I want to know.

How you react to hearing this and what you think this means for me. I don't think it's that crazy.

Like, when I'm reading this question from.

You, I mean, I know it's probably not typical. Maybe it is typical. I mean, I think people get close to their therapists. But I've had a therapist for over 10 years, this same man, and I can picture myself saying, I love you. I don't know.

I feel like an experienced therapist will.

Take it in stride and help you sort your feelings. I mean, that's what therapy is for.

Is having a place to say, I.

Need help sorting these things out. If it was worth writing to me about, it's definitely worth discussing with your therapist. And remember, a lot of times our deepest epiphanies start with raw feelings that we don't yet understand. So I hope that's been helpful or.

At least somewhat reassuring. We want to hear from you, so.

Send us your therapy etiquette related [e-mail] thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp. Now let's get back to our conversation with Phoebe Bridgers.

Phoebe, do you have any recurring dreams? I ask because it's relevant to the next question.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I do. I haven't had one in a really long time, but I used to go Back to the same town in my dreams. And that was awesome. Like a lucid dreaming experience. I think since I've been sleeping better, I'm losing out on this whole fun psycho world that I used to go to.

[Tig Notaro]

Was it a real town or was it a made up town?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

No, no, it's like a made up town. And again, like that weird, like, painful nostalgia. Like you wake up and you're like, damn, like, what? I can't even put my finger on why it was so nice, but it was awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, that's nice. Because a lot of times it seems like recurring dreams are, you know, and then the spider was in my mouth when I woke up. You know what I mean? It's not like, ah, I woke, went to that wonderful place again.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

All right, well, Melissa writes. Hi, Tig. I've been having recurring dreams about a famous true crime podcast host. And while I appreciate the frequency of her presence in my subconscious, she's consistently mean to me in every dream. I'm a huge fan, so not sure what that says about her or me. Could you give me insight into this situation? I'm not looking for requited affection in these dreams. Maybe just some moderate pleasantries.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Whoa, so this is like a subconscious ask?

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I wonder if it's Karen Kilgera for Georgia Hardstark.

[Tig Notaro]

I wondered.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I wonder.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, you know, I have a weird.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

One, which is that I always have nightmares if I eat right before bed or have spicy food.

[Tig Notaro]

That's pretty typical, though.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

So maybe I'm not calling you average.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

In that department. And every day I fly too close to the sun. Like last night I had nachos right before bed. I don't remember any dreams, but I definitely didn't sleep very well. I don't know. That's like. My only real advice is I've tried.

[Tig Notaro]

A CBD oil and that works. And then I feel like I built up my tolerance or something and that didn't work as well. But, yeah, I'm very curious who the host is that's showing up and being mean. But it's kind of like my feeling about ghosts. I just don't buy into it too much. No, I think it's interesting, but what if your dreams are just neurological noise or just, you know, your brain just reorganizing and cleaning, like, not putting too much weight into it. And maybe you're listening to the podcast too much. Give yourself a break and maybe see if that helps.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, I don't think there's too much psychological about it. I don't I've never seen an episode of Euphoria, but for some reason my like entire Internet is showing me ads for Euphoria all the time. And I just remember that I had nightmares consistently when the show was being advertised quite a bit.

[Tig Notaro]

Wow.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Just involving characters that I have no idea what they do. It's just like pop culture. I had like a nightmare about Ryan Gosling recently and I think it's cause I saw literally just a picture of him online before I went to bed.

[Tig Notaro]

You're so sensitive.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally. So my brain is just like Swiss cheese.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm surprised you're not having nightmares about nachos.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Totally.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Any excuse for pop culture to haunt me, my subconscious will take. So I definitely wouldn't put any stock into like it meaning something deeper. I don't think Euphoria is haunting me.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah. It might just be the one sidedness of listening to a podcast.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

And Julian Baker actually said about my favorite murder, she was like, it's like intimacy you don't have to be involved in. And that's my favorite thing. Like, it's like shooting the shit with a friend. But you are a ghost.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

You don't even have to involve yourself.

[Tig Notaro]

Right? Yeah. Melissa, my gut says to maybe, just maybe take a week off and just see if you can sleep a little better. Do you drink? Sometimes. That can really disturb people's sleep. You can get deeper sleep if you're not. I'm not accusing you of being a booze hound, Melissa. All right. But also, what time are you listening to it? Maybe you're listening to it too close to bedtime. And then it's just in your head during the night. Night hours.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I like that. It's about true crime. And instead of being nightmares about getting murdered in your sleep, it's approval from the host is what haunts you.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, well, Melissa, that is. That's what Phoebe and I think. All right. And we've got one last thing to do before you get out of here. Phoebe.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Sweet.

[Tig Notaro]

I'm going to take us to the confession booth.

Welcome to the confession booth.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Whoa.

[Tig Notaro]

The Don't Ask Tig confession booth features listeners sharing secrets they've never told anyone. Phoebe. In order for us to give them the advice they're afraid to ask for. Today's confession was sent by Leanne. Leanne writes, when I was living abroad in my early 20s, I had an affair with a much older man who happened to be married with two children. I knew that going into the relationship. He proceeded to separate from his wife and we had a relationship for two years. During that time, he got divorced. Our relationship didn't work out, largely due to the age difference, but also due to the shame we both felt. I'm now in my mid-30s and happily married, but I can't get over my guilt for being a part of. Of breaking up a marriage. What should I do? Oh, boy. I mean, Leanne, I just want to say right out of the gate, the only people responsible for the relationship are the ones in it.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yes. Yes.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay. But that doesn't mean you won't have emotional consequences or ghost dreams or podcast host dreams about it. I mean, if you're human, you were nodding yes, emphatically.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I've dated married people before, and I've been.

[Tig Notaro]

Phoebe, I know.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I've been in the situation of, yeah, major age gaps. I've, like, had ex partners be really mad at me, as in, like, you know, the spouse of whoever I started dating. And I used to feel so bad about it, and I definitely would never do it again. I think that's part of the lesson, is like, someone's not giving you the whole story. I think if we. Anybody who's ever been in a relationship, it's like, oh, we're basically separated or we sleep in separate rooms. It's like, no, it's not true. So that's a lesson. But definitely don't feel bad about it. Like, you were. You were manipulated. It's not really fair, especially when there's an age gap. It's not. I don't think it's super fair to put someone in that position. That's my. That's my two cents.

[Tig Notaro]

Also, if it wasn't you, Leanne, it might have just been some other person.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Absolutely.

[Tig Notaro]

And no offense, but I don't know if you were special and this person might have been doing this with somebody else. I mean, as soon as things get tricky and gray like that, it kind of things fly out of the window, you know? And. I don't know. Feeling guilt long after the fact, I think is useless unless it keeps you from stepping outside of your own marriage or doing this type of thing again. I feel like that's the only way guilt from past actions can be used.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Also, it puts so much pressure on the relationship. Like, then you. Weirdly, you feel like you have to be. You have to make it work with that person. If there were so many sacrifices to be together. And that's not true either. I read a book last year called Animal by Lisa Tadeo. It's so traumatizing. Definitely biggest trigger warning ever. But it dealt with some of that stuff in a way that I thought. I don't know. I just really, really liked it. I have a book recommendation.

[Tig Notaro]

I thought you said. I wrote a book last year. And I was like, my goodness, look at you.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Can you imagine if this was my plug? I waited till the end, for one. I'm promoting casually. Yeah.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, all right. Well, Leanne, I say use that guilt to just move on and never do anything like that again. But don't linger in there, because I really feel like it could have very easily been somebody else. You're not the reason this guy got out of his relationship.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, a thousand percent.

[Tig Notaro]

That is not a knock against you as a person. I'm just saying that it really always goes back to the people that are in the commitment. So, Phoebe, should we assign a form of penance to Leanne?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

No.

[Tig Notaro]

All right.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

I think, you know, therapy's great. I talk about that stuff with my therapist all the time. It's awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

Okay, well, it sounds like Phoebe's inviting you to therapy with her. Leigh Ann, I am.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Let's do couples counseling.

[Tig Notaro]

Well, I hope that was helpful in some way. Leigh Ann and Phoebe, we've reached the end of the show. Is there anything you'd like to promote?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

New Muna Music is coming out. A band on my label, and it's really good.

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, they are incredible.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah, they're the best.

[Tig Notaro]

You and I did Corden with us.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Corden?

[Tig Notaro]

Oh, my gosh. It was one of those experiences where I was like, oh, well, who are these people? They were so nice and fun and funny and cool. And then they got on stage and I was like, oh, my God, they're rock stars.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Rock stars.

[Tig Notaro]

Yeah, rock stars.

And they're on your label, right?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Yeah. Satisfactory Records. And Muna has new music out right now, and it's awesome.

[Tig Notaro]

It is incredible. They're so great. Well, Phoebe, I think you're incredible. And I look forward to seeing you in the flesh again sooner than later. And congrats on everything. It's just so fun to watch. And I love, love your music like everybody else alive.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Thanks for having me.

[Tig Notaro]

Goodbye, Maxine.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Say bye, pig.

[Tig Notaro]

Also, don't ask.

Tig is nominated for a Webby Award this year.

We're up for best advice and how to episode for our conversation with Esther Perel.

Voting closes later today, so go [e-mail] and tignotaro.com is where you'll find tickets to my live show.

Get your tickets now.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

You to know. Oh, my sweet child. There's so much I want you to see I wish that I could give you the answer I wish that I could make you believe I wish that I could put you on your path and set you free that's what your heart is for that's what your heart is for that's what your heart is for.

[Tig Notaro]

Don't Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro. It's produced by Thomas Willette, Shana Deloria and Ryan Lohr. Our executive producer and editor is Beth Pearlman. Engineering and sound mixing by Johnny, Vince Evans and Eric Rahmani. Digital production by James Napoli. Talent booking by Marianne Ways. Production support from Pizza shark and Sarah McRae. Our theme music is Friend and Tig by Edie Brickell and Kyle Crushem and Listen to youo Heart by Edie Brickell. Special thanks to Hunter Seidman, APM Studios. Executives in charge are Lily Kim, Alex Shaffert and Joanne Griffith. Concept developed by Tracy Mumford. Our executive consultant is Dean Cappello and Gobsmack Studios. You can always ask for advice at don't asktig.org just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo. Remember to follow us on social media at donasktig. Don't Ask Tig. TIG is a production of American Public Media. And as always, thanks Dana and I'll tell Becky.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

That's what your heart is for that's what your heart is for that's what your heart is for.

[Tig Notaro]

Listen to your heart.

The Soul to Story podcast is about how teaching kids to read went wrong. But now we have a story about a school district where things are going very right.

[Phoebe Bridgers]

Let me make sure my friends are sitting crisscross applesauce, hands in their lap. I've never had a child that couldn't read.

[Tig Notaro]

How did they do it?

[Phoebe Bridgers]

When I tell some of my other.

[Tig Notaro]

Colleagues that may be at other schools that this is what I do and they would say, you kidding me? New episodes of Sold a Story are available now in your podcast. Apparently.