Michelle Wotin (1:08)

Hello. Hello, this is Danielle Ireland and you were catching an episode of don't cut your own bangs. The remedy to comparison and feeling like everyone has life figured out but you. And today's guest is somebody who for the last four years has been helping me figure out figure out life in a way that feels joyful, uplifting and moving forward in a way that feels like floating. That's a little Easter egg because we're going to be talking about that essentially for the rest of the episode. Lashelle is the powerhouse behind Abandoned Ordinary wellness. With more than 25 years of experience and emotional intelligence that truly feels like a superpower. She helps people step out of the lives they've been tolerating and into the lives they were meant to live. They She's a Bronx native who worked as a licensed clinical social worker and therapist and spent her career supporting leaders, creatives, music artists, and everyday people who are tired of being disconnected from their true desires and who are ready to be guided home to themselves. Her work is this rare blend of sharp wit, deep heart and unwavering clarity. Whether she's coaching or creating immersive experiences or helping somebody create a full life reset, Lachelle brings transformation that is real. And that feels not only real, but possible in a way that is also pleasurable, abandoned. Ordinary wellness is about using joy as a strategy, alignment as fuel, and then creating a life that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside. And as someone who has been working with her off and on for the last four years, there is this magic recipe where I write down, I get my intentions clear, I work with her, I believe that it's possible and can be pleasurable. And then within three months, the very thing that we get clear about happens only every single time. And I think that is something that is really unique to the offer that she has for everybody that she works with. She's a breath of fresh air and I am truly thrilled to share her with you today. Before we dive in, I thought I would highlight a couple of the things that we're going to be exploring in this conversation. Her roots in the culture shifting 90s R&B industry, working with Mary J. Blige, Jodeci and En Vogue. Again, I say this in the episode, but I mean it. If you don't know who these people are, no judgment. I get it. Just stop, pause, go to Spotify, listen, come back. Okay. Wasn't that good?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (3:26)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (3:27)

Let's keep going. The moment she realized her purpose with helping shift from I am my circumstances to I create my circumstances. And that really became the bedrock and foundation of what she offers her coaching clients. Her invitation to drop a 15 year career and work with Usher. Yes, you heard me right. That is Usher. The one who is also performing in Vegas right now. Usher. Stay tuned for that. How she ended up on Deal or no Deal island and the spiritual lessons that were tucked into that experience. And of course, her personal don't cut your own bang moment. And because Lachelle always knocks it out of the park, she gave us two. So just stay tuned for a couple of incredible don't cut your own bang stories with without further ado, get ready to sit back, relax and enjoy the show. As we find ourselves in the holiday season, I've been thinking a lot about meaningful gifts. The kind that help us slow down, reflect, connect with ourselves and the people we love. If you're looking for something special, I've created two resources that come straight from my heart and my therapy practice. The first is called the treasured Channel Journal. It is a guided reflection tool built around seven key areas of your life, filled with prompts, sentence, stem, stories, and space to explore the things that really matter to you. It's a beautiful way to reset, especially as we're heading into our new year. For the little ones in your life, or maybe grown ups who are helping them navigate their emotions, there's also my children's book, Wrestling a Walrus for little people with big Feelings. It is a sweet story about a small penguin, a big obstacle, and the power of meeting our feelings with kindness instead of fear. Both make wonderful holiday gifts for friends, family, or for yourself. Because calm, curiosity and connection are gifts we all deserve. You can find both the Treasure Journal and Wrestling a Walrus in the links in the show notes or on my website, danielireland.com Michelle Wotin, thank you so much for being here and joining me on don't cut your own bangs today.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (5:29)

Thank you for having me. I'm excited. I can't wait for this conversation.

Michelle Wotin (5:33)

Me too. Okay, so I'm just going to jump right in and because I've everyone's already heard your intro, but I want to start off with how we know each other and I because I was thinking about that a lot when I was preparing for this interview. I was, I think, just getting back into work after having my first baby. So this would have been 4ish years ago. 4ish and a half ish years ago.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (5:55)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (5:55)

A friend had seen you for coaching, recommended you, and it just felt right. And this is, I think, going to be I want listeners to really pay attention to how I phrase that it felt right because that is the through line that will be not only giving you the greatest sense of what working with the shell is like and what her content is, but also what it was for me from the beginning. It just felt right. I didn't overthink it, I didn't analyze it. I signed up for a call and what I remember so vividly was how joyful, how encouraging, and how simple you made the entire conversation feel. I am because my internal voice is hard on me. I expect the wisdom I need to be hard on me. And that was the absolute opposite of who you are and how you operate. And that first call, I remember you asked me a question that was so simple, but for the life of me I couldn't answer it. It was when you wake up in the morning, describe your ideal day. And my bar was so low, low.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (6:56)

I remember.

Michelle Wotin (6:58)

And you were like, okay.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (7:00)

I was like, okay, let's do it a little smaller. What about the first two things you want to do when you first open.

Michelle Wotin (7:07)

Your eyes, when you open your eyes before you put your feet on the floor? And I still, I revisit that exercise often. But I want to. 1. Just thank you publicly. Just thank you. And I'm truly excited for everybody who is a don't cut your own bang listener or however they're catching this conversation to get to learn from you. Because what I have learned and what I'm continuing to learn and work with you is that you can create a life you love, and you can also love the process in creating it.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (7:36)

Yes.

Michelle Wotin (7:36)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (7:37)

I would love to hear such a big part of the life.

Michelle Wotin (7:41)

Yes. The process is your life.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (7:43)

It is your life. Yeah. We always separate the two. We're like, okay, I'm gonna get through the process, which may not be amazing. Get to the life that I wanna have. And, like, the process is the life. Yes. It's all the life.

Michelle Wotin (7:57)

Yeah. I definitely have fallen victim to that trope of once I get to X, then I'll feel Y.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (8:05)

Yes.

Michelle Wotin (8:05)

And no. You have to enjoy the journey.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (8:08)

Yes.

Michelle Wotin (8:09)

And that was an atrophied muscle. So I have a feeling that even today, even though this is a podcast interview and not a coaching call, I'm going to be flexing that muscle today. And I want to invite everyone listening. It may be my words and my story, and we're going to be hearing about Michelle's story. But put yourself in this conversation with us and go through these steps with us, because it just makes it more fun. Okay. You started in the music industry.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (8:34)

I sure did.

Michelle Wotin (8:35)

So professionally, you started in the music industry, and that is such a cool beginning. I just want to throw out. Okay. I don't know what generations are all tuning in and listening to now, but I'm going to throw some names out there, and this is going to be homework. If you don't recognize these names, stop listening to the podcast, open up your Spotify and listen. Please educate yourself, and then come back, and then you'll really get it.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (8:58)

Okay, Then you'll get it.

Michelle Wotin (8:59)

So you were a publicist for Mary J. Blige and En Vogue.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (9:03)

Yes.

Michelle Wotin (9:03)

Okay. So.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (9:04)

To name a few.

Michelle Wotin (9:06)

Okay. So little Lachelle, born and raised in the Bronx.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (9:09)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (9:09)

Comes up in the music industry.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (9:11)

Yep. By accident.

Michelle Wotin (9:13)

Okay, can you just take me back there for a minute, please?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (9:15)

Yeah, absolutely. So little Lachelle graduates from high school and thinks that she's going to work at either BASKIN Robbins or McDonald's, because at that point, that was the dream for me. Cause I loved the fries and I loved the ice cream. My dad was like, cute. But no, you're going to college. So sends me to college. I go to college in New Jersey. Which was fine the first two years. The team wins, like the NCAA championship. They actually lost by one point. That went to the finals. So it put this little Catholic college on the map. And so they decided to double the tuition. And because I was at this school for two years, really just being social more than being a student, I felt like I can't ask my parents to pay double C grades I'm getting. So I decided I'm gonna come out of college. I was halfway through, I'm gonna come out of college and figure it out. So my parents were not really happy. My dad was like, you can still go, don't worry. And I'm like, no, I'll find another way. And literally about two weeks after being home from ending my sophomore year of college, my mom's friends were in the house and, and one of them was like, oh, how's school? And I told her I stopped for now, blah, blah, blah. And she's oh, I work for this temp agency. If you want a job, you should go there. So this was back when you actually had to go in and then they made you take a typing test. So I did that and they assigned me as a floating receptionist at a record company. My first assignment. And I was there for a week. Like the receptionist was out sick. The woman who was like the head of HR at the end of the week, she said, I'd like to hire you full time as a floater, so anyone who's out, you'll sit at their desk for the day. And I did that for probably a month. And I got hired full time in the publicity department as an assistant. And that is where my decade long career in music went. That's how it started. Just, I don't know, I just floated into it. And it was the 90s, which was, yeah, an amazing time for music, R and B, pop, everything was. So yeah, it was a good time to be there.

Michelle Wotin (11:19)

God that. I love that. Because when you look at, when you have the 30,000 foot view and you're just looking at a highlight, it's hard to see how they connect. But hearing you say I just floated in, that's how I ended up becoming a ballroom dance teacher. I just floated in. I did. I was supposed to go to la. I was already working as a commercial actor and getting paid in high school and college. I went to theater school. So the plan was, I'm going to graduate, I'm going to go to LA and I'm going to bust into the industry. Yes, went to, yeah, I went to la. Got major culture shock, Came home, and I was living with my parents with a college degree. So much shame at the time. And then my parents actually met as instructors and were still longtime friends with the people who own the studio. And they said, why don't you just join their training class and see if you like it?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:06)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (12:07)

And seven years later, I was.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:09)

You were doing it.

Michelle Wotin (12:10)

Shuffle ball change. Cha cha. Yeah. And I floated into that.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:14)

Floated in.

Michelle Wotin (12:15)

Okay.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:15)

That's how life should feel.

Michelle Wotin (12:17)

That's how life should feel.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:18)

Everything should feel like you're floating in.

Michelle Wotin (12:20)

You mean it shouldn't feel like busting in like the Kool Aid Man?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:23)

No, no, no. The Kool Aid man thing is not a thing. It's not comfortable. It usually ends you up in urgent care.

Michelle Wotin (12:32)

Yeah. Okay, so that's a good takeaway. All right. Rather than busting through brick walls like the Kool Aid man, maybe consider floating.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:39)

Floating in. Floating.

Michelle Wotin (12:41)

Yeah. Because enjoy the process, because the process is your life.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:43)

Okay.

Michelle Wotin (12:44)

Yes. So what did that 10 year period working in that industry with those creative people who were at the peak, they were like on the growth edge of music and they were at the top of their game. What did you absorb and observe in that world? Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (12:59)

The interesting thing is being in that industry is actually the thing that sent me running back to college. So I started going. I worked in the industry straight out for about a year, and then I went back to school part time. I was still working full time. Some years I was working full time and going to school full time. Sometimes I had to take off because I was like on tour, so I wasn't going to make it to class. This was long before we had virtual classes. So it took me nine years to actually get my bachelor's degree, even though I had two years in the start. But what I learned was creative people are crazy. And in a good way. Yeah, it's a good thing. You have to have this level of almost like reckless abandon with yourself in order to actually express your creativity. Very hard to be refined and express your creativity. And honestly, expressing creativity is probably the greatest feeling a human could have. And I learned that watching them. At the same time, I also learned that there are so many complexities to the human being where mental and emotional collide, that if you don't have an understanding of what your mental and your emotional are, because we each have our own very unique blueprint, you will be busting through brick walls all day long and hurting yourself a lot. Right. And part of it is, for me, I was living the life of the creatives I was working with because I was right there with them in the studio, on the tours, at the press junkets, backstage. Like, I was there for all of it. At the same time, I was in school studying human behavior, learning about my own blueprint, which helped me to stay very balanced and grounded and being someone in the industry who was really enjoying myself. Yeah, right. Most people in the industry, when I was there, they had these high moments and then these super low moments, but they didn't have time because everyone is on them. Right. Do this produce, perform, look good, do a duet with this one, go on tour with that one. They didn't have time to pay attention to how they're thinking about this and how they're feeling about it. That is really. The music industry is what really catapulted me into discovering that I was naturally like, a coach, social worker, therapist. I didn't really have that understanding of myself until I got into that industry.

Michelle Wotin (15:39)

Yeah, I can really relate to that, too. That it was floating from dance. And then I kept looking for a job that would tick all of my boxes. And what I've learned is there's just too many boxes for me that are fun. That one, one, one can't cut it all. But I thought, oh, I'll work in fashion and have a Devil Wears Prada moment. And that was a very. That wasn't a fit. And then I thought I would work in the spa industry and make people feel really good about themselves. But what I was really doing was fielding complaints all the time from either employees or customers.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (16:14)

Customers.

Michelle Wotin (16:15)

And so I was like, that's not it. And then I realized, when I looked back at all of the different things, what were the aspects that I loved there. There was this thread of understanding people and connecting with people, and that felt like, oh, that had no bottom. I just find people. I'm.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (16:32)

I love learning about people. A well, that has no bottom.

Michelle Wotin (16:36)

I gave you something. Oh, that makes me feel good.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (16:38)

I love that.

Michelle Wotin (16:39)

And that is truly it. I just. I'm endlessly fascinated. I know nothing about the sports, but I'll watch a sports documentary, because watching those kids scrap their amazing. I was like, I just love it, love it so much. But I. I didn't. I'm recognizing something in real time, which is. I think I looked at floating through life, the moments where it felt easy. I thought that was a failure because I wasn't trying.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (17:05)

It has to.

Michelle Wotin (17:07)

And in real time, I'm actually sweating a little bit thinking about it. But that is. Gosh, I Hope that for anybody listening who can relate to that or is in a season of that to welcome the floating. Welcome that gentle step from lily pad to lily pad, because I. Man, what a. There would have been so much more pleasure on the ride. And I. Gosh, I. That's. I'm carrying that forward. That'll be my 2026 call. That I'm allowed to float through life and that it's not a failure.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (17:38)

That is not. That's actually the win. Fritting is for the birds. Efforting before the birds.

Michelle Wotin (17:44)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (17:44)

Let the birds just pick it up and fly it south for the wind. It is. It's exhausting. And when there's a way to use effort. Right. And what I've discovered and what I teach in my coaching is your effort should be focused on discovering what you desire.

Michelle Wotin (18:05)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (18:06)

Actually, accessing what you desire should really not be led with efforting. It should be floating. Because once you discover it.

Michelle Wotin (18:18)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (18:18)

The universe literally starts to conspire to bring it to you, put it in front of you. Like your parents said, why don't you try this ballroom dancing and see if you like it?

Michelle Wotin (18:29)

I. Okay. So the universe conspires to meet the desire that you claim.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (18:35)

Absolutely.

Michelle Wotin (18:36)

So I'm skipping ahead. But one of the points that I made that I've learned is just the special magic of working with you. Because we haven't had a ton of sessions. It's not like a weekly thing. I actually remember after the first one, okay, when do I need to rebook? And you're like, why don't you wait?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (18:50)

Why don't you wait? Whenever you're ready.

Michelle Wotin (18:52)

When. Float back in.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (18:53)

Whenever you float back in.

Michelle Wotin (18:55)

Float back in. When it feels right. And the good student in me was like, what you mean?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (18:59)

Wait a minute.

Michelle Wotin (19:00)

I have the freedom to just do this whenever I want to?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (19:02)

Whenever you feel like it.

Michelle Wotin (19:03)

There's not a totally yes, but I. I take a page full of notes that I sometimes and sometimes don't ever look at again. But I'm so glad I've done that because what I've noticed happens is once I get really clear in one of our conversations about I don't. Two, three, four points, whatever it is. Sure. Three months later. Three months later.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (19:25)

Yep.

Michelle Wotin (19:26)

Happens. Bing, bing, boom. The clearest example I have off top of my head is when I was working on the podcast two or two years ago, and it was feeling like a grind, and I really wanted help lifting the production off. And you gave me three or four ideas, and you're like, what? If you just tried this or what if you just explored blank, I was like, really? That just sounds so easy. And you were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. And then I believe within a week, I had a woman, a beautiful person, producing my podcast for me. And up until I decided to launch it into video, she did it for me. And it was. It. I think it kept me from abandoning it completely. But that was just one simple example. So you've. In some of the language that you use, you say that your emotional intelligence is your compass. And you have a book called GPS your Life.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (20:17)

Yes.

Michelle Wotin (20:17)

And there's. You have all of this content that's really about helping people tap into that internal guidance system. So I just wanted to see if you could elaborate on that a little bit more, because I'm assuming your offering was your medicine at one point, like, you honed into that and now you can teach that. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (20:37)

Yeah, absolutely. I was. I don't know, I think I was born looking to live on easy street, which is the reason why I'm intelligent. But I was like, a fee student in school, like, all the way through, much to my mother's chagrin. I thought it was less concern for my mom and many parents. Your children's grades, quote, unquote, is supposed to be a reflection of how well you parent.

Michelle Wotin (20:59)

Oh, right. Gosh, you're right. You're right.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (21:03)

The children's grade is supposed to be a reflection of how well you parent. Nothing could be further from the truth. But I always wanted to stay on easy street with everything, with friends, with grades, with boyfriends, Everything needed to feel easy to me. And so when we literally. When GPS came into our lives, like actual GPS that you use in your car for navigation, I started to make the parallel. It was like, wait, all I actually have to do is tell this thing where I want to go.

Michelle Wotin (21:36)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (21:36)

And then I'm just going to sit here and it's just going to tell me the best way to get there, and all I have to do is follow it. Yeah. This is my life. It really gave me actual gps, gave me a concrete, living example in our world that everyone engages with.

Michelle Wotin (21:52)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (21:53)

To help them understand what I already knew but didn't really have a context, which was our true goal as people is to just figure out what we want. And when I say figure out, I mean feel. I don't mean think about it. And let's write out a list of all the possibilities, and then let's tick off the things that for One reason or another don't make sense. And then narrow that down. I don't mean that at all. See someone doing something, think of yourself doing it, and see if that feels amazing while you think of it.

Michelle Wotin (22:28)

It's almost. If we think about the language of directions and travel and road trips, it's like sometimes the best thing or the thing that feels the best is taking the scenic route. And sometimes. And sometimes the highway. That's the way. That's the most direct path, and that's the way you want to go. But it does depend.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (22:44)

Yes. And sometimes the highway is the best way to go. Even though there's traffic. Right. Obstacles. Somebody busted a tire, so now they're slowing up traffic because the tow truck is there. It's in the third lane, blah, blah, blah. So, yes, I'm heading to the address that I want to get to. Right. My best friend's baby shower. This brand new job I got and I'm so excited about. I'm going to see a Broadway show. I'm heading to that address. The road there is laid out. If I just follow the sign. And sometimes there will be delays, there will be pit stops, there'll even be detours, but it's still the best way to get me where I'm trying to go. What we tend to do as humans is. This is an example I love to give. My aunt does this all the time. We get in the car, we turn on the gps, we put in the directions, and it lays it out. Right. They take 95 to 3 miles, and then you're going to get off and get on Route 4. And my aunt will say, why would it put us on 95? It would be faster if we took 80. And I'm like, yes, but the GPS can see everything. We can't. I can only see what's here. I'm sitting in a parking space.

Michelle Wotin (23:58)

And she's seeing her experience. Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (24:00)

She's not. Yes. The GPS is seeing the whole picture. And so that's how we trip ourselves up.

Michelle Wotin (24:07)

Yes. It's. This is not a familiar route. I've never been here before. I don't like the way this feels. Gosh, that's so good.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (24:14)

But the funny thing is, it's not that we don't like the way it feels because we don't know what it'll feel like to get on that route.

Michelle Wotin (24:19)

It's uncertain and we don't like uncertainty. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So you're working with someone.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (24:26)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (24:26)

And they're understanding this language and they're trying to Articulate this thing that they want or the way that they want to feel. It could be a quality in their life or something they want to have, something they want to own. What's like that first ping that, as a coach, really lights you up with. Oh, okay. Tell me more about that. What's that? That sense you get?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (24:48)

Yeah. There's an energy that comes. I see on people's faces, and I can just hear in their tone that helps me understand where they're, like, juicy spots are. So, for example, I'll have people that I'm coaching, and they will start their coaching by really articulating all that is wrong here. This is wrong.

Michelle Wotin (25:08)

Help me fix it.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (25:09)

Okay, great. But then there's always something in their statement that is like a real. Like, their voice changes, there's a highlight, and I see their face change. But then they continue back on the road of, here's all the things I need to fix. And so usually what I do is I tap in to. Let's let me just go back to that thing. Like, for example, I remember with you when we started talking and I was coaching, you were talking about being a new mom and fitting clients in this, and then you made this mention of you being a ballroom dancer, and there was a full shift in you. You spoke of that, and then you went back to, I'm really to adjust this new schedule. I have this baby. And I was like, oh, wait, tell me more about this ballroom dancing. So I pulled you back there, and I recall saying, can you meet with clients in the dance studio? You were like, oh, it just.

Michelle Wotin (26:06)

That never occurred to me.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (26:08)

Exactly.

Michelle Wotin (26:09)

Right.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (26:10)

But that's because the dance studio dancing, your GPS direction.

Michelle Wotin (26:16)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (26:16)

And then the task of actually serving clients and also now being a new mom, those were, like, the things you thought you needed to tend to and plot a way to manage it. Yeah, right. You were. That was the crashing through the wall and the talking about the dancing was the floating.

Michelle Wotin (26:33)

I think everything that you've talked me through, the thing that feels like we almost play a game of coaching peekaboo, where I forget, and then I remember, and then I forget, and then I remember. But you remind me you can do anything you want.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (26:48)

Anything.

Michelle Wotin (26:50)

And every time I'm like, I can't.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (26:52)

I know I can do anything I want. I remember that with the book, I.

Michelle Wotin (26:58)

Was like, yeah, yeah, you can write a children's book. You can have someone help you produce your podcast. And I was like, neat. I can. Like, it's just every time. But it. But I think it it feels like a new lesson every time. And I guess in that iteration or that particular leg of the trip, it's my gps. It's buffering, and I need to remember. Oh, okay. I can't just keep going this way.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (27:21)

Or I can't exactly.

Michelle Wotin (27:22)

Yeah, yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (27:23)

Because what happens is it's a muscle we have to build. What I really try to do when I'm helping people figure this out, that you can have everything the way that you want it. Start people with things very simple. Like, my favorite thing is silverware and socks. I'm like, do you like your silverware? And I would say 90% of the people are like, no. I'm like, okay, why don't you go get silverware you like? You can even go to Walmart saying you have to spend $400 on some silverware. But you also don't have to keep Aunt Sylvia silverware that was passed down to you and her. That it's heavy and it's ornate and you don't like it. Your style is more modern. So go somewhere and pick up a new set of silverware. But every time you eat, which is multiple times a day, you're having a moment that feels like floating. That feels like you.

Michelle Wotin (28:13)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (28:14)

And people are like, silverware. I'm like, just start there.

Michelle Wotin (28:20)

Yeah, just start there. And the socks. I love that.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (28:23)

Oh, the socks. Do you like your socks? When you look at your feet, first of all, do they feel good?

Michelle Wotin (28:28)

Yes. Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (28:28)

Do you like thick socks? Do you like cushy socks? Like, warm socks? Did the stitching in the toe bother.

Michelle Wotin (28:33)

You or do you have socks with holes in it? I know people that have, like, socks with holes in them.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (28:38)

I know people have jeans and shirts with holes in them. Come on, come on, come on. Right.

Michelle Wotin (28:43)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (28:44)

But they say to themselves things like, I'm saving for this, so I'm just going to make do with that. And I'm like, none of our life should be make do. We don't need to make do with anything.

Michelle Wotin (28:56)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (28:57)

Right. We are here to express what we desire and engage with it when it shows up.

Michelle Wotin (29:05)

Ooh. Express what we desire and engage with it when it shows up. That is exactly the process every time. Yes. Express what you desire and then engage with it. Yes. So engage with it when it shows up. Somebody floated or rather danced really well into your life. Usher, can you for a moment. So your jump into coaching had something to do with Usher, and I'm putting in quotes, parentheses with you. Yes, that Usher.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (29:35)

Yes, that Usher. That Usher, Absolutely.

Michelle Wotin (29:37)

Can you please Explain this plot twist.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (29:40)

Absolutely.

Michelle Wotin (29:41)

What that deed did for you, please. Okay, go ahead.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (29:43)

Absolutely. So I had a really good friend that I worked in entertainment. I stayed for a decade, right before the like the beginning of the 2000s. I left the industry completely and really dove into like social work and therapy and all of that, which I was loving. Cause I was floating, right flute float, float me right out of music. And so years later, probably 16, maybe 14 or 16 years later, same good friend who I'd stayed in touch with all along was working and managing artists and she called me and she. It was really funny because she was like, I don't understand millennials. And I was like, I know we made some and we are struggling. And so she was like, I really need someone to like support and help me. I was like, I do have a full time job. Right. Here's a moment where I was myself saying, I'm on this road. And she was like, yeah, I know, but can you just come over here? And interesting. Because she stayed in creative, like really rich creative long after me. So for her, she was really in that juice of, yeah, do what you want. And so when she said to me, can you come and help me? I said, yeah, because I really didn't have a reason why I couldn't. And interesting. Prior to her making this call to me for probably almost a year, I was recognizing at the job that I had at the time, which I loved, I was working with parents. It was just amazing. But I had been doing it for about seven years and I had started feeling this sense of, this is fantastic, but it's over. I felt like this, I don't need to do this anymore. It wasn't misery. I loved it. I loved my coworkers, I loved where the office was. I loved my clients. But I just felt like that door had closed, but I was still on the wrong side of the door.

Michelle Wotin (31:35)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (31:36)

And so what I started doing is I started looking for other jobs. So I started fixing my resume and sending it out. And interestingly enough, because the freedom I was seeking and the part of my work that I actually wanted to continue doing, which was coaching, included coaching, but it wasn't fully all these other things that I had to do as well, knew that I wanted to just coach, but I didn't have the skills sense that I could just go do it. So for almost a year, I'm job hunting and every job I'm applying for, even jobs where the description was essentially my residence, no one was calling me. It was like I was throwing a Penny in an ocean. There were people who even said, I hear you're thinking of leaving where you are. We'd love to have you here. Can I set you up with hr? Sure. HR never called. And so I said, okay, hold on, I'm starting to get it. And I'm thinking, okay, wait a minute. If I am to submit my resume because they know, they want me and they just want to take me through the steps and they don't call even after they called me, there's no HR interview. There's nothing. The universe is trying to tell me something. Hold.

Michelle Wotin (32:48)

Hold everything that. That to me is that that internal math that you just did, I can see so clearly how that became the foundation for your coaching. Because what you didn't do, you didn't personalize it.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (33:05)

Not at all.

Michelle Wotin (33:05)

You didn't personalize it. And that you looked at the experience and you're like, okay, this is how I feel. This is some information. This is what is happening. This is some information.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (33:16)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (33:16)

I wonder what do I want to do with this information? Not, I'm rejected. There's something wrong with me. They're not calling me like you. You didn't personalize it or attach it to your worth or value at all. That's incredible.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (33:30)

Yeah. But here's why. Yeah, okay. Because this is something I really want people to. Because you are at your most amazing version right now. And whoever you are in that version, whatever's not happening or is happening, it doesn't have anything to do with you because you are at your most amazing right now. I was at my most amazing when I was 18, as an 18 year old. I was at my most amazing when I was a mom, as a new mom. I was even more amazing as a more experienced mom. But in this moment, you are at your most amazing. What you've got and the tools you have and the way you express yourself, this is the best you're offering. And so it's not about trying to twist yourself into something better than what you're able to offer in this moment. It's about aligning with what feels good with who you are right now.

Michelle Wotin (34:27)

You're not.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (34:27)

So it never.

Michelle Wotin (34:28)

You're not looking and you're not treating yourself like a project.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (34:32)

Not at all. I never said, oh, God, there must be something wrong with my resume or there must be something wrong with me. No, I was like, wait a minute, nobody's calling me. Which must mean I'm not meant to go down that road because I'm. Apparently, I'm as amazing as I can get in this moment. The road's not opening. So I stopped looking for a job and I continued to focus on enjoying the work I was doing. And then she called me and said, can you please leave this career you've had for 15 years and come help me support a megastar? I was like, it was more money, but here was the real thing. It was the thing I had been focusing on. Part of the reason I wanted to leave the job I was at. I wanted more of my own time back.

Michelle Wotin (35:24)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (35:24)

I wanted more freedom. I wanted to stop taking the subway downtown every day and not getting his feet and the train's not working. And I wanted to stop having the same lunch options in the area where I work. Like, that was all a part of this whole, this is not for me anymore.

Michelle Wotin (35:41)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (35:42)

And then she makes this phone call from out of nowhere. And mind you, this is not a friend who knew I was looking for a job. When she called me, we probably hadn't talked in like a year.

Michelle Wotin (35:51)

What I something else I love about what you just said and you, it was almost like a throwaway. But that really is like, that's the step before you float into the next thing is nothing was wrong but the food choices, the train, just that sense of just getting to that place. That sense is information. That's one of the things I love to say over and over again, that your emotions are information and they always have something to tell you. And so that's so beautiful that you were looking at all of that, was feeding what you were trying to find.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (36:23)

Yes. So sitting with I love was not making my train rides better. And I was like, I need it all to be great. Right. I need all of it to be great. Yeah. And so when she called and said, can you come help me with Usher? Okay. So I was like, sure. So here I am. And it's interesting, right, because you have the information around you. I have these friends and family members who are like, you got a master's degree in this thing, you're about to quit. But what I knew because this was just dialogue with myself was like I was looking for more freedom. I was looking to take the part of the work I was doing that I loved the most. Do more of that, which was coaching. Now, the interesting thing was when I worked with Usher, there was no coaching involved at all. Like, I was really just supporting the coordination of his career at the time. And it was very short lived. It was interesting because in my head I remember thinking, I'm going to do this. And then I thought, I wonder how long I'll do this before I actually get to the coaching. But then I said, the timeline doesn't mean anything. And I literally did it for about half a year. Wow. And then my support was no longer needed. Right. I got her over this hump and supported that. And. But while I was working for him and her, I had a lot of free time because I was just anywhere I wanted to be. I was on a laptop. I had a cell phone. So now I had clients from old jobs who knew I was like a free agent. Can I pay you to coach me? So now my coaching clientele started building up at the same time, and I had all the room and space to do it.

Michelle Wotin (38:01)

Yeah. And saying yes to Usher was just the step. To the step.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (38:05)

Exactly. Yeah. Now you can imagine you're thinking, oh, my goodness, yes to working with a megastar. You're thinking, this is going to be all encompassing. My life has shifted direction, and what I was doing shifted directions, but the direction. My address on the GPS stayed the same.

Michelle Wotin (38:24)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (38:24)

And this was a cooperative component there. The Usher to get me to my coaching.

Michelle Wotin (38:29)

If it had been anyone else, it might have been easier to say no, of course. Oh, my gosh. I love that. Usher was an answered prayer. He just.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (38:36)

It was an answered prayer.

Michelle Wotin (38:37)

Went for six months.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (38:39)

Yep.

Michelle Wotin (38:39)

He just worked six months. Oh, my God. Okay, so I want. So this is another really fun detour that I haven't really had a chance to ask you about, but. So in the story of lashelle, she left Usher and went on to coach and build a thriving coaching business. And she created a card deck, and she created a beautiful book. And her sons are growing up into the world and becoming amazing young men. Plot twist.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (39:03)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (39:03)

You take a little detour on reality TV's Deal or no Deal Island. Okay. Because what I do remember talking about was how you just, on a whim, decided to fill out the application.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (39:16)

Yeah. And actually, it wasn't even that.

Michelle Wotin (39:18)

You didn't fill it out.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (39:19)

I did. No, I filled it out.

Michelle Wotin (39:21)

Okay, tell me. Please tell me.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (39:22)

I love the old Deal or no Deal with Howie Mandel Studio with the ladies with the suitcase, Meghan Markle and Chrissy Ticket. I love it. Oh, I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. So when I saw, like, an ad on something, I, like, was watching some show, maybe Grey's Anatomy or something, I see an ad. Oh, Deal or no Deal Island. And so I literally. I set my DVR for it because I didn't notice when it was coming on And I never watched TV in real time. So months go by, and my DVR has recorded that entire season. And it was interesting because I DVR all the things I want to see. And then I have these moments in my week where I can just veg out with TV that I love. Yep. And every time I would go in the dvr, I would look at anything but Deal or no Diagnosis. Even though it was. It was stacking with like two episodes, six episodes, seven episodes. Finally, I had watched everything, and there was nothing left but Deal or no Deal island, which I still didn't even understand the concept because I didn't understand the island part. So I said, let me watch this. So I'm on my couch, literally watching this show. I put it on episode one. I'm trying to understand, like, now they're in a jungle. It's like Survivor, Right. But with the suitcases and the ladies. And so I watched the first episode. I don't know that I understand it, but I'm like, okay. So then I'm watching and I'm losing interest because my mind, I think, was set on the original show.

Michelle Wotin (40:36)

Sure.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (40:37)

And then I get to a part where there's like a. They run commercials. And I'm maybe texting or on the phone with my niece or somebody, and I see it says, if you want to be on the show, go to this website. And I was like, oh, I have to see what kind of questions they ask because I don't really get this show. I also didn't know the people on the show. Like, how did they get the people? So I. On my cell phone, in the dark, in my pajamas and headscarf, I go on and I'm like, it's like a Google form. Like name, email, I think city, state. And then you can answer questions. And the way it's set up, it's like, you can't skip questions. You have to put something to get it to move to the next one. You can't leave anything blank because I just want it to through. No. So I'm putting ridiculous things, Right. What's your biggest fear? Why would I tell you that? Lol. Then next question, Right? Because I just want to see what they're asking. It's a fairly brief. Then this little thing comes up when they want you to put your face in the video. And it says something like, tell us in 30 seconds why you want to be on the show. And I'm in the dark because in my mind, I'm thinking there's more questions because there weren't a lot. I said, I don't want to be on your show. I don't actually understand your show. I used to like the old show. And then that just hit the next button and then it says. And I'm thinking, next question. It says, thanks for your submission. That didn't hit me in any way because, first of all, the show aired months before, so when I see it on dvr, I'm even surprised that the application's still available. And then I didn't say anything of substance. I just was playing from the thing. I don't answers. I was just being funny, really. They called me the next morning, and then I even didn't think much of it. I was in the airport heading to my son's college graduation, and the woman was like, oh, my God, we got your application and we really want to talk to you. And I said, oh, I'm going to my son's graduation. I'll be going for a week. She said, I'll call you in a week. And I thought nothing of it. And she hounded me in a week. She emailed me, she called me, she texted me. And I was like, listen, I don't want to do your show at all, but thank you. And she's like, no, we're almost ready to film, and we loved your submission, and just do a little interview with us on Zoom. And I said, oh, okay. And she's, I don't want to lose my job. I got to get you to get.

Michelle Wotin (42:51)

On Zoom with me. She's literally, she's, you're a wizard, Harry. You need to come to Hogwarts.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (42:56)

And you're like, what?

Michelle Wotin (42:57)

Leave me alone.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (42:57)

I'm like, I don't want to do this at all. I'm not interested. I don't even understand your show. Oh, my God. And so, long story short, I do the little interview with her because she's pleased. I don't want to lose my job. You got to do 15 minutes with me. Which I did. She sent it to the network, and if they like it, you'll hear from them. If not, it was nice to meet you. In my mind, they're not going to like it because I'm saying the same thing. I think the show's kind of dumb and I'm not really into it and whatever. And then I get an email from NBC and I get a phone call, and they're like, can you go take a physical? Can you fill out this form? And in my mind I'm saying, I'm actually resisting now. I'M my aunt saying, why are they putting us on 95? We should be taking Route 80. Right. But then it hit me. I said, wait a minute. These doors are just flying open. Every phase that everyone says, you may not make it any further, thousands of people apply. The door's just opening. So I said, you know what? I'm going to stop resisting, and I'm just going to follow this till it ends. I'm like, maybe I'll meet my husband. I don't know. But I know for a fact in my mind I'm not going to be on this show. That's not going to happen. So I just went through the process, and as we all know, I was on the show.

Michelle Wotin (44:10)

She was on multiple.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (44:12)

Multiple episodes. Yes. I was swinging through a jungle, swimming through swamps. Nothing that I thought I would be doing. It was not on my 2024 list of things to do. Be on a reality show and live in a jungle with strangers was not on, but it was amazing.

Michelle Wotin (44:31)

What did saying yes to that give you? Or are you still figuring that out?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (44:36)

There's two parts. One is saying yes to that, I feel is opening some doors that I have not gotten to yet. But what it did for me instantaneously is it educated me about just how fearless and how free I can actually be. Like, I am more fearless and more free than many people I know.

Michelle Wotin (45:03)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (45:03)

Now it's on a whole new level. Like, I didn't know there was this level of fearlessness and freedom. Even though I'm in my circle, I'm, like, at the top doing that. I was like, oh, wait, there's a whole nother level above this level that in my world seem like the top. Which means there's always more.

Michelle Wotin (45:25)

Yeah. Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (45:27)

There's always more.

Michelle Wotin (45:29)

And how fun it was. How fun.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (45:31)

I floated. I floated in. I floated in and I floated through and I.

Michelle Wotin (45:37)

And maybe fun is the next tier. It was like floating is with ease, but when you're having so much ease that it become. Yeah, yeah. And then you're just having fun.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (45:49)

Yes. I went from floating to flying.

Michelle Wotin (45:51)

That's amazing.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (45:52)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (45:53)

Wow.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (45:54)

It was worth it. It was worth every here and heart beat fast day. I was like, oh, gosh, what are they going to ask us to do today? But whatever it is, I'm going to do it.

Michelle Wotin (46:06)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (46:07)

Yeah. So I did. I went from floating to flying. And flying is a lot of fun. Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (46:14)

God, that. Okay. Thank you for that. I, I.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (46:18)

You're welcome.

Michelle Wotin (46:19)

I already get the sense that I'm going to need a Two parter. Not for this particular conversation, but I just. There's so much more. There's so much more. But for today and for everyone listening today.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (46:30)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (46:31)

I would love to hear your don't cut your own bangs moment.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (46:35)

So interesting, because I've been listening to your podcast. I love, by the way.

Michelle Wotin (46:40)

Thank you.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (46:41)

And I was thinking, what is my don't cut my own bangs moment? So there's two things. There's one. I really have a don't cut your own bangs moment that actually dates back to my adolescence when I was a young adult.

Michelle Wotin (46:52)

Isn't that when they all start.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (46:54)

Oh, my goodness. It was a very big lesson I had. I used to get fake nails. I used to go to the nail salon and get fake tips. They used to put the tips on.

Michelle Wotin (47:02)

They glue them and then they.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (47:03)

And then they leave. Yes, yes. So I had these fake nails and I had. Because I was fancy. It was for New Year's. I had. My pinky nails were gold and the rest were like polished fake tips. Yes. I wake up New Year's morning. I am 18, my sister is 13 or 14, and my parents are drunk because they were out all night for New Year's. Yes, of course. And they're in the bed asleep. I wake up to discover that one of my nails, the gold one, was lifting off of my bed. And so instead of being like, you know what? I'm going to put a little band aid in and go to the salon so they can fix it. No, I'm going to do it myself. I take Krazy Glue and I'm like, I'm gonna squeeze this Krazy Glue under here and just hold it down. The problem was, I don't know if you noticed, but when you use Krazy Glue, the glue wraps around the tip after you use it, and it causes, like, a film that you almost have to take off every time you wanna use it again. Yeah, I don't need to take the film off. I'm just gonna squeeze it really hard and the glue will come out. So here I am. This is the visual. And here I am with the glue and the nail. And I'm trying, I'm squeezing, and instead of the glue coming straight out, it comes out of an air pocket, goes into my eyeball, and I do this. So now not only is there glue in my eye, but my hand is glued to my head.

Michelle Wotin (48:23)

Oh, no.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (48:24)

And my parents are inebriated down the hall. And now I'm calling my sister and I'm like, help. Help me. So she comes in and she's, what are you doing? This is literally like New year's day. Like 8 in the morning. She said, what are you doing? Like, my hand is glued to my face. And she's, like, trying to pull. She's not coming. I'm like, please go get our parents. So here comes my mother, because my sister says, oh, shell got glue in her eye. I can hear my mother.

Michelle Wotin (48:50)

She's.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (48:50)

Tell her to rinse it out. And then my sister says, it's crazy glue. And I can hear my mother, so she jumps out the bed. This ends us in the hospital for the whole day. They rip my hand off. My mother rips my hand off my face. All my eyelashes are in the palm of my hand. Oh, my God. My eye is glued. She rips it open like she's forcing it open. Just like I forced the glue. I wonder where I get it from. She rips my eye open. The glue that went in, that was apparently still liquid because I closed my eyes. So crystallized from the air. So now I have this giant crazy glue contact lens in my eyeball.

Michelle Wotin (49:26)

Oh, my God.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (49:26)

And now my inebriated parents have to drink coffee and get themselves together to get me to the emergency room.

Michelle Wotin (49:32)

This is definitely one of the top stories. How do you get crazy glue out of your eye?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (49:36)

Hello. So that was the question I was thinking on the way to the hospital. What? I'm like, they're going to take my eyeball out. So we get to the emergency room. They don't actually know what to do, mind you. On the thing, it says if you get this internal, if it goes internal, you need to see a doctor. The doctors had no clue. They were like, we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. It's New Year's Day. They're trying to call an optometrist because there are none in the emergency room.

Michelle Wotin (50:00)

They've just been busy pumping stomachs all night.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (50:01)

They just pump their stomachs. They have no idea what to do with this eyeball. So they finally come up with this plan. They lay me on a gurney with my head hanging off the back. They clamp my eye open. Like, the skin. They clamp it open. They take IV bags, like, saline solution. They microwave them to warm them. And the little needles that they would put in your arm to give you hydration, they just taped them to my skin and they just flush my eye for hours with warm water. Whoa. Then they had to move me because the glue was so strong. They said it was messing with the X ray machines down the hall. So then they take me to, like, the fifth floor and put me and my mother in a storage closet because the fumes from the glue were messing with equipment in the hospital. Ultimately, the optometrist came hours later. He said, I'm sure she's not going to be able to see. But I'm laying there seeing. I'm like, I can see. Like, I can see. I'm holding the other. I'm like, I see. So they gave me a patch because it was glue up in here that they couldn't get. And they were like, you got to keep that eye still. Your body heat will melt the glue and come back for another exam. And I did. And ultimately, my vision did not change. But yet that was, don't glue your own nail. Don't let the professional do it.

Michelle Wotin (51:19)

Don't cut your own bangs. Don't glue your own nails. And if you feel resistance, stop. In life or with crazy glue. When you feel resistance, just stop, Stop.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (51:28)

And they could do it better. The other thing I thought of, that I wanted to share with you is when I was thinking of these moments, because I was like, there's gotta be something more. I couldn't really come up with one. But in thinking of that, I recognize that I'm more of a don't go to another person's hairstylist kind of person.

Michelle Wotin (51:47)

Okay. Okay.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (51:48)

Right. So, like, I thought about raising my children with my mother living down the block. So she was in my house every day because these were her grandchildren, which was amazing. At the same time, she got good results with how she raised her kids. I didn't want to take that same path. I was like, I want to get where you got, but I don't want to take the road you took.

Michelle Wotin (52:12)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I can really relate to that. I. A friend of mine who also happens to be a stylist, she just did this whole overhaul for me because I'm in a. I feel like my closet, like probably everyone's, is a time capsule of seasons of life. Different lives, different. This is my blazer journey, and this is my ballroom dance journey.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (52:32)

And.

Michelle Wotin (52:33)

And I doing what I'm doing now and being in the season of life I'm in now. I wanted more items in my closet that celebrated me today, and. But I get so easily influenced. It's. I love to think that I'm far more. I don't know. I'm very influenceable, especially when I'm tired and it's late at night, and the algorithm sends Me, the perfect thing that I didn't know I needed. And it's always a loose cable knit sweater and it's some woman with like casually tousled hair, like a two day blowout. And she just looks so comfortable and she just looks so chic. And is she enjoying coffee at home or is she out on a date? You just don't know. And I always buy the sweater. I always buy the sweater. And so having to look at the inventory, like looking at my closet, like inventory. I've had a conversation with myself just last week and it was.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (53:25)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (53:25)

You do not at this current moment in time have permission to buy another cream sweater.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (53:32)

Yep. Just.

Michelle Wotin (53:34)

You have enough. And you keep in these ads because you buy them. And the truth is, I don't want the sweater. I want that feeling.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (53:41)

Exactly. That's what I was gonna say.

Michelle Wotin (53:43)

Thank you.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (53:44)

Comfort. Right? You want the comfort. She's showing the ease.

Michelle Wotin (53:47)

The ease. Yes. I want to feel that comfortable in my life.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (53:51)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (53:51)

I don't, I don't want to just be home. I want to like Cameron Diaz and the holiday. Be home.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (53:56)

Yes. Oh, yes.

Michelle Wotin (53:57)

Like I just, I. And that is. Yes. So I love a good elevated basic. But my don't cut your own bang moment is. I don't currently need any more cream beige taupe sweaters.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (54:08)

Yes. So a question you can ask yourself. I want what I'm feeling when I look at her.

Michelle Wotin (54:13)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (54:14)

What can I access that would give me, that would not require me to add anything to my life? Because she's just, she's like a visual representation of a feeling.

Michelle Wotin (54:26)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (54:27)

So it's what else would give me that and that. Like this last week. Right. My first day back at work last week, I literally on Monday woke up and felt my mind jumping from the book and the deck and the journal and the clients and my students. And then I said, you know what?

Michelle Wotin (54:42)

I'm not.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (54:43)

That's. I'm not working this week.

Michelle Wotin (54:44)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (54:45)

And so I sat out in the sun and read books. I laid on the couch and watched tv. I took naps. I had a dinner with a good girlfriend of mine. I stopped working. There was a feeling I needed that. Gaining something, getting something else was not gonna give me. So that's a question we can ask ourselves. What can I access in my world that gives me the feeling that I wanna access, that I'm looking at when I see this woman.

Michelle Wotin (55:10)

I think that this is an absolutely perfect concept to highlight as we wrap up, particularly given that we are in the throes of the Holiday season where we are going to be sold more than ever things we didn't know we needed. It's just consumption and obviously giving gifts, treating ourselves, that's all amazing. And this isn't my way of saying I'm not going to buy myself anything. Sure. It's just there's a particular sweet spot that if my eyeballs land on my phone at a particular time of day, the algorithm knows. Oh, she needs a sweater. She's here. She's here for that sweater.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (55:43)

Yeah.

Michelle Wotin (55:44)

How can I give myself the feeling?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (55:46)

Another thing you can do is you can say to yourself, what can I do differently than that feeling.

Michelle Wotin (55:53)

Yes.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (55:53)

Just something simple. Right. Differently. That will give me that feeling. Even if you're just doing it differently this afternoon.

Michelle Wotin (56:00)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (56:01)

Right. We're not talking about doing it differently, like an entire shift in your life. Just, how can I do the next hour differently? That'll give me that feeling that I'm feeling with this sweater and this woman that I'm looking at.

Michelle Wotin (56:13)

I thought of three. Three answers. So I'll go ahead and play with this for myself. So one, one very quick and easy is light a candle. Light a candle. And also I have different tiers of perfume. I have, like, nice body oil, but I have, like, my date night perfume. I've got, like, different ones. I would go for one of the perfumes that's not my everyday. So I would change the scents. I would change the scent experience. The candle creates a little bit of romance and cozy. But then the other thing I thought of was, I'll just go get a blowout because if I have nice hair, it doesn't matter what I'm wearing.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (56:43)

Exactly.

Michelle Wotin (56:44)

Yeah.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (56:45)

And then you don't have sweater number 4007.

Michelle Wotin (56:49)

Yep.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (56:50)

And having the sweater does not create the. That moment.

Michelle Wotin (56:54)

No.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (56:54)

Right. It was what she was doing. She looked good doing it, but it was what she was doing.

Michelle Wotin (56:59)

Yes. Yeah. I would say maybe 1 out of 10 times have I made a purchase that way and actually felt good about the purchase.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (57:05)

Purchase, yeah. Right. So the question you always want to ask yourself is, what am I doing?

Michelle Wotin (57:09)

What am I doing?

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (57:11)

I can think differently.

Michelle Wotin (57:12)

This was so lovely. Thank you. Thank you for being here. This was.

Podcast Host Danielle Ireland (57:16)

Thanks for having me.

Michelle Wotin (57:20)

Thank you so much for joining me in this week's episode of don't cut your own bangs. I hope you enjoyed listening because I truly and thoroughly enjoyed making it. Anytime I get to connect with Lachelle, it's a great experience for me and I love now that I've had an opportunity to share her and introduce her incredible work with all of you with the don't cut your own bangs community. If you want to connect with her, just know I have everything saved for you in the show Notes. You can visit her website, order all of her beautiful books. She also has this card deck that is just extraordinary. It's actually if you're watching on video, you can actually see it's behind me right now. There are so many great ways to access that free floating, joyful method that she leads so well. As always, your time, your care and attention mean the world to me. Before you hop off, please remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. It helps the podcast grow. It helps me get better and better. Leave a comment, Let me know what really struck you. What spoke to you? Could you relate to her don't cut your own bang moment? That was. That was a big one. That was a one. I'll still be thinking about that from every time I open a glue bottle. I'll be thinking about that don't cut your own bang moment. There was so much joy in this episode. I hope that you feel it and I hope that this empowers to float through the holiday season with such love, grace and generosity. And if you're catching this episode in a time that's not the holiday season, that's okay. You still deserve to float too. Thank you so much for being here. I can't wait to catch you next time and I hope you continue to have a wonderful day.

VRBO Advertiser (58:50)

Did you know you can opt out of winter with VRBO? Save up to $1,500 for booking a month long stay when thousands of sunny homes are waiting for you. Why subject yourself to the cold? Put the snow shovel down, put the parka back in the closet and don't you dare scrape another windshield. Slip into some flip flops, consider a sunless tan and use the monthly stays filter to save up to fifteen hundred dollars. Book your warm getaway at vrbo.com Marketing is hard, but.

Libsyn Ads Advertiser (59:22)

But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion and this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L, I, B S Y N ads.com today.