← Don't Cut Your Own Bangs
Don't Cut Your Own Bangs
Exploring the Wild With Eli Martinez: Diving With Sharks & Embracing the Call of Adventure
00:55:20
In this episode of ',' Danielle Ireland interviews adventurer and SDM Diving owner Eli Martinez. They discuss his unique career leading land and ocean safaris, dispelling myths about predators, and the connection between exploring the wild and...
Loading summary
Transcript84 lines
- [00:00]
Danielle Ireland
Hello.
- [00:00]
Eli Martinez
Hello.
- [00:01]
Danielle Ireland
This is Danielle Ireland, and you are listening to don't cut your own bangs. And today's guest. This has been a long time coming for me. I am so excited, beyond excited, to introduce Eli Martinez. Eli is an adventurer. He's an explorer. He's an operator and owner of SDM Adventures. It's a group that leads land and ocean safaris. If you have ever seen these wild, otherworldly images of people swimming with humpback whales, swimming with orca whales, swimming with crocodiles, swimming with anacondas, there's a good chance that you've stumbled across his images, because he is one of the few, right? It's a pretty small pool of people who make a living doing what he does. Images, they grab your attention, they hook your imagination. But it being on a screen, it's easy to think, well, that's so far removed from my life. What value is there in that for me? Like, that's a cool image. But the Internet had lots of cool images. There's a couple of important distinctions, and what I think makes this episode so special, what we talk about is dispelling the predator myth and my work as a therapist and his work as a safari guide, they don't seem too related. But there was one common thread that came out of this episode that it's going to stick with me for a long time. He's guiding people into the natural world to feel connected to the natural world in a deep and profound way. And when anybody sits with their emotional space, with their feelings, feelings of discomfort, fear, terror, trauma, that's really hard to do and hard to hold. But when you do and access curiosity, you begin to tap into your true nature, your intuition. And so Eli might be talking about sharks and the deep ocean, and I might be talking about feelings, but there is a common thread in language here that makes this episode already one of my favorites. I can't wait for you to hear his story, because not only is the work itself that we spent a lot of time talking about fascinating, he leads people on wildlife safaris, in the ocean, on land. I mean, it's just, what a cool, amazing job. But he built that job. There wasn't an application for him to fill out. He built this from the ground up. And there were stumbling blocks, missteps and pivots along the way, and he shares those with us. So not only can we learn about how could I build a dream that I didn't know was possible, you also have the benefit of really getting a sense of, what is it? Like, what is the value? What is the purpose? And I would argue, where is the healing in connecting with the natural world, whether that's through a hike or through looking out your window. And as he states a couple of times, just watch a sunset. Really watch a sunset. So I'm going to save that. I'm going to leave that for you there. Thank you for being here. You're going to love this episode. Welcome. Eli Martinez. If you've ever wanted to start a journaling practice but didn't know where to start, or if you've been journaling off and on your whole life, but you're like, I want to take this work deeper. I've got you covered. I've written a journal called A Journal for Unearthing you. It's broken down into seven key areas of your life, filled with stories, sentence stems, prompts, questions, and exercises, all rooted in the work that I do with actual clients in my therapy sessions. I have given these examples to clients in sessions as homework, and they come back with insights that allow us to do such incredible work. This is something you can do in the privacy of your own home, whether you're in therapy or not. It has context, it has guides and hopefully some safety bumpers to help digging a little deeper feel possible, accessible and safe. You don't have to do this alone. And there's also a guided, treasured meditation series that accompanies each section in the journal to help ease you into the processing state. So my hope is to help guide you into feeling more secure with the most important relationship in your life, the one between you and you. Hop on over to the show notes and grab your copy today. And now back to the episode. Eli Martinez, thank you so much for being here with don't cut your own bangs. This is not the first time we've met, but this is the first time we've done a podcast together. And I am like the little kid in me who wanted to be a marine biologist when she first knew what dolphins were. This feels like just. She feels so greedy with excitement to talk to someone who has made a living being an adventure traveler and swimming with animals and interacting with animals all over the world. So I'm very excited to talk to you.
- [04:48]
Eli Martinez
Actually, I was a little self conscious about it because of, because of your background and psychology. I'm like, okay, all right, where do I start?
- [04:56]
Danielle Ireland
You know what?
- [04:57]
Eli Martinez
Yes.
- [04:57]
Danielle Ireland
Your family actually told me to schedule this podcast interview so that we could really get into what makes Eli tick. No, no, no, no, no. This is a celebration. What I'm Curious about personally, not just professionally working as a therapist, but I love understanding what leads people down whatever path they end on. And probably a lot of that is because I mistakenly thought during my 20s, that you went through the school system, you graduate with a degree, you start working in that career, and you follow all of the steps to be a good citizen. And that was not my path. And it was a lot more twisty and turny, and there were a lot of pivots, and I can see that now as of value. But in those moments where I thought I knew what I was going to be doing and life took me in a different direction, it knocked me down pretty hard. I think there were a lot of moments where I felt like I was failing or wasn't doing it right, using air quotes of whatever it is. And so someone like you, who are a storyteller, explorer, wildlife photographer, and have spent your life chasing the wild, you lead ocean and land wildlife safaris. I love that distinction. Ocean and land wildlife safaris. There is not. You can't go to high school and then college and then just start doing what you're doing. There's no Reddit, there's no LinkedIn interview that you can fulfill. To make that a career, you had to chisel that together. And so I really want to understand that more. Like how you built this dream, what seems from afar like a dream life. And I'm sure it is many days, but I want to know how you did it.
- [06:44]
Eli Martinez
Animals have always been like my first love. As a child, I can remember my first toys were animals. My dream as a child was to become a wildlife veterinarian. That was the only way I knew that I could actually physically be around animals, because I had no idea about wildlife guiding or photography or storytelling. So veterinarian was the only way I could get close to a zebra or a giraffe. And I said, that's what I want to do. So as a child, that was like that one dream that I had. And of course, life gets in the way. And I went to a completely different route. I actually went to school to be a motorcycle mechanic. So what?
- [07:24]
Danielle Ireland
Yeah, that's definitely a different route.
- [07:26]
Eli Martinez
Yeah, no, it was. I fell in love with race bikes and I wanted to travel the world. Look, being a mechanic for race teams, that was my thing. I love motorcycles, but I like wrenching them. I like working on them more than I like writing them for. It's just my DNA, just how I like to be. Fast forward a bunch of years. I fell in love with shark diving. I Went scuba diving. And on my very first dive, I saw a shark. And it terrified me and excited me, filled me with everything that I enjoyed about wildlife to begin with. And it was coming out of the water that I realized I knew absolutely nothing about sharks. Everything I thought I knew was wrong. So. So I came out of the water that day and I was just completely fascinated, really obsessed with learning more about sharks. So I. I bought every book I could find. I read as much as I could about them, and I just was like, I gotta get in the water with them some more. And it was on my very first travel, I went to the Bahamas. And it was on that experience is what got me on this path that I'm on today. It was just like, I want to dive with sharks. I want to travel to exotic places. I want to meet amazing people. How do you.
- [08:45]
Danielle Ireland
We do? Okay. Okay. So we're going to get the how. So you fell in love, and now it's the how. But I want to go back. Do you remember the first shark, like, in your. Can you access that memory? Do you know the shark? What was it?
- [08:56]
Eli Martinez
It was a bull shark.
- [08:58]
Danielle Ireland
Oh. Oh, okay. That's gnarly. That is. Okay. The first shark you ever swam with was a bull shark. I don't know why. That's, like, the one that scares me. I. I can relate. So not to put on the therapy hat for. For anything other than just. I find this so interesting that the things that scared me I wanted to learn more about, I found endlessly interesting. And when I was young, it was the ocean, the deep ocean, and I really became in the way that a suburban kid could. Really curious about sharks and very interested in sharks. And I would always talk about them and just rattle off a bunch of shark facts. And I. As you were talking, you reminded me of the fork in the road moment where I thought. What I thought was I wanted to work with animals. What I realized was, oh, I just kind of like. You loved turning wrenches more than you love racing. I love learning about animals more than I want to. I'll just tell the story. When I was 13 or 14, I applied for a summer job at our Indianapolis Zoo. That really burst my bubble of what that was gonna mean. I wanted to work with animals, but I realized I just wanted to play with the elephants. I didn't wanna do the dippin dots concessions. So there's this sense of. You were afraid, you shared that. I dove with sharks, I swam with a bull shark. I came out of the water, I was afraid. And then Fascinated. Is that something. Is that like a theme for you that you feel a jolt or a rush, and then you want to understand that rush more?
- [10:32]
Eli Martinez
Possibly it was just more of, like, when I saw the shark, I had two primal instincts, which was one was to follow it, and the other was to get out of the water. That was just like those two conflicting feelings that was going through me. And the. When I was. I ran out of air really quick because it was actually my very first ocean dive, okay. So I was sitting on the surface. The dive master sent me up to the surface by myself, which is crazy. And when I think about it, man, I didn't know anything I was doing. I'm just looking down. I'm just, like, really worried this shark is going to come up and get me because I'm on the surface. And that's all I knew. I knew the Jaws story. I knew a little. Just very small snippets of information on sharks. And. Yeah, and it was completely opposite of what was happening. The shark wanted nothing to do with us. It tried to avoid us completely.
- [11:19]
Danielle Ireland
Yeah.
- [11:19]
Eli Martinez
Got out of the water. And then the whole way back to port, I was just like, okay, he didn't come after us. He didn't want anything to do with this. Like, why? And it was that moment that was just like, after that I got out of the water, I'm like, okay, I gotta know. I gotta know what you thought you.
- [11:38]
Danielle Ireland
Knew conflicted with what you experienced. And you were trying to understand that more.
- [11:43]
Eli Martinez
Right.
- [11:43]
Danielle Ireland
That's really interesting. I can relate to that. I honestly think that's a big thread of what led me to therapy. I wanted to understand my internal experience more. And I think there's steps of you're introduced to a concept and then you embody the concept. You're no longer having to consciously think about it, but really mastery is when you're able to teach. And so I think in many ways, I wanted to understand that enough to help others. But it began through my own experience and my own curiosity. So I feel like I should mention how I got connected with you. I think social media gets a bad rap. It gets a lot of bad press, but thank God for social media. It was in 2012 or 13, and I was watching Shark Week because you always gotta be watching Shark Week. I was watching Shark Week and the whole episode I was watching was they were trying to see could large species sharks experience the same temporary paralysis as smaller or baby sharks when they're flipped upside down for study? And I was, of course they're Doing all of these great cuts. Is it gonna work?
- [12:43]
Eli Martinez
Who knows?
- [12:43]
Danielle Ireland
Is it gonna work? And of course they're gonna end it with it working. You're on the edge of your seat. What are they gonna do? What are they gonna do? And they showed a clip of you with a tiger shark in the Bahamas and you were like hand feeding it and then you stimulated the. And you could correct me with all the science terms, but you were like stimulating the snout and it just put it in this little trance and then you just tipped it upright, you just, it stood vertical and you held it. Just a shark, a tiger shark. I don't know, like 16ft, 15ft, something like that.
- [13:16]
Eli Martinez
Possibly.
- [13:17]
Danielle Ireland
Anyway, it blew my mind. I think I just made a post about it, took a picture of my tv. I was like, my mind is blown. And then some weeks later you commented, thanks so much for the shout out. And that was one of those first moments that really connected with. Oh, you can actually connect with the people who are doing things that you think is cool. It just, it really bridged this gap. And then once, of course, I found out what you and your family, because it's a family band, it's like a whole. It's the whole family involved on these excursions. But as soon as I made that connection, my husband and I signed up to swim with whale sharks with you and your wife and your son and your daughter. So that's just. I feel like I gotta give credit to, to the algorithm and the interwebs for making that possible because I don't know if I would have even thought that was a possibility.
- [14:06]
Eli Martinez
Oh, wow, that's. Thanks for sharing that, man. That story just, wow. Just flooded with memory with that little piece.
- [14:14]
Danielle Ireland
When I set out to write a book, I only knew two things. One was I wanted to make big feelings feel less scary and more approachable. And I wanted to bring some lightness to the feelings themselves. What I know to be true as a therapist is that emotions are energy in motion. They have information to tell you, to inform the next right step to take. And self doubt, fear, anxiety, live in that space between knowing and not knowing. The second thing I knew was that I wanted to have fun in the process of making this thing. The result is this. Wrestling a walrus for little people with big feelings. Beautifully illustrated children's book that has a glossary at the end for some of the bigger feeling words. What this story does in a light and loving way is create context for those relationships you can't change. Those people that you wish would treat you different the things in life that we cannot control and yet we face that are hard. This book, it's a conversation starter for any littles in your life who want to create more safety and love and patience for some of those experiences. So hop on over to the Show Notes. You can pick it up@Amazon.com barnesnoble.com or my website. I hope that you do, because I believe in this little book. I freaking love this little book and I cannot wait to hear your experience with it. Thanks so much for listening. And back to the episode.
- [15:30]
Eli Martinez
Those are fun, fun shows to do. And there's definitely a lot of benefits to social media. I think that. I think it's a great tool, it's a great servant, a terrible master. That's the best way I can describe it. Yeah, it's just there's so many benefits to connecting with people on the other side of the world, to learning about unique places, to learning the unique things. It's been one of my most important tools when finding new places for wildlife. But on the flip side, there's sometimes there's just too much information out there and too much because of it. It's made life difficult for wildlife, difficult for kids, difficult for. It's just, it can be too much. And that's the only downside.
- [16:15]
Danielle Ireland
That's like how we engage with it. It's an extension of how we are showing up with it, what we're looking for, what interests us. What I love about how you show up there and how your family shows up there with images is it really, I think, highlights how we operate. We look first and then we listen second. And so you'll capture these images or these videos that seem otherworldly and it catches your attention enough. And if you can hold that attention enough, and it probably helps that your message is consistent, of conservation, understanding, connecting with nature. When you can capture someone's attention with an image, just what happened with me, and then you can maybe engage in a dialogue. And it actually leads me to something that you mentioned, something I caught from your website that I really liked. This language that when people experience the wild, they understand and when they understand, they care. And that sounds much like the experience you had swimming with the bull shark. But I want to know more about that because you, not only through your media outlets and the content you put out, but you are hand holding, you're guiding people into the water or in ocean and land safaris. And I want to more about this concept because I think it's true of emotions too. If you can't articulate what you're feeling. Then when people don't have language for what they're experiencing, they usually shut down and collapse or they explode with rage. It's got to go somewhere. And so when you can create context and language, you also create safety. It seems like with what you're guiding people through, you want them to understand in so that they care. Well, yeah, tell me more.
- [17:59]
Eli Martinez
Yeah, that has a lot to do with just experiences being out in nature. I think nature is probably one of the best doctors on the planet. First and foremost. I think that people being around wildlife, people being in the ocean, people being in the wilderness, it replenishes your soul, it recharges your batteries. I think it just makes you a better person. It's through these connections and meeting wildlife and having people go out there in the wild and see these places and see these animals and they come back and they tell stories, stories they tell their friends. And hopefully it's through those kind of connections that conservation comes out of. Like at the end of the day, the animals win. That's what you're hoping for, is for the animals to win. Because these are voiceless souls on our planet that share this world with us. And without these people, without these experiences, they're completely vulnerable, for lack of better words, to bigger business, to sadly going away, for lack of better words. I think one of the biggest problems that animals have is that they are second class citizens on our planet that we share. And unfortunately we're seeing our wild places disappear alarmingly fast. And it's. I think that conservation, ecotourism are probably the only tools left that are going to save what's left of our wild places, what's left of our wildlife.
- [19:22]
Danielle Ireland
Let's try to get some people on your wildlife safaris. What would be. So if someone's listening who has maybe like me just from a television screen or from a social media account wondered, that would be cool. But that could never work for me. I could never do something like that. That it's just when your physical reality or even your mental reality feels so removed from the wild world. We live in boxed rooms and we're so connected with screens. And my wildlife outside my window is squirrels, cardinals.
- [19:58]
Eli Martinez
Perfect.
- [19:59]
Danielle Ireland
So how would you speak life into someone saying yes to an adventure? And where do they begin?
- [20:08]
Eli Martinez
Oh man. I think it really, first and foremost, it all comes down to your comfort level. I think that there's so many ways for people to reconnect with nature, whether it's hiking, whether it's biking, whether it's going to the beach for the day. Watching a sunset. Just watching a sunset is so powerful. I think it's so important. I don't think we do it enough. I think that is probably the simplest way to remember that you are a part of something bigger. And as simple as it sounds, it is so important. Now watching a sunset in an amazing place is even 10 times better. It's that much more powerful just trying to reconnect with nature. I think the important part to remind people that, yes, the Earth is here. She is alive, and she breathes and she's got a heartbeat every day. And I think that sunset is her heartbeat. And it's a great way to see it.
- [20:58]
Danielle Ireland
I just saw, I think it was NASA release some footage of a particular. Some type of lens on a satellite that was able to actually detect a pulse on the Earth, like the Earth has a heartbeat. But I'm sure the more science y people have another way of explaining it, but that it caught my attention and that feels just right on par with what you're saying. When the heart space and the headspace connect, I think that's when magic happen happens. Like when you can believe it in your mind, but then you experience it in your body. That is powerful. I think everybody needs to have an experience like getting into the deep ocean or going out into the wild nature. I really think everybody should have that in their life at least once. But I want to share a little bit about what my experience was like with you and your wife swimming with Whitman Parks. Because it was. There was so much momentum for me built up into what I thought that experience was gonna be. Because from the time I understood Little Mermaid Disney to the time I could name the dolphin body parts and thought that's what I wanted to be like this. There was so much emotional charge. And I'm gonna go in the water and I'm gonna swim, and it's gonna be great. And I just had this idea that I'm gonna connect with this shark. We're gonna make eye contact and it's gonna. We're gonna just be on the same vibe. Never expressed. But they were all there. I was probably trying to keep it cool, but no, the reality I will just to skip to the end. The reality far exceeds whatever I imagine the first day was me reconciling what I thought it would be and what it really was. Getting on a little charter boat going way out in the middle of the Gulf. And then I think sturgeon were spawning. And that was what was drawing the sharks. And so it made visibility like all of these little eggs were refracting light. So it was this very sparkly. But also sometimes visibility was funky. And the thing that I couldn't wrap my head around was from the boat you could look out at the water and see, I don't know, a dozen whale sharks at any given time. But then you get in the water and adrenaline hits and I don't know where they are, I can't see them. It's just having very little to no experience in the deep water that was such a jolt and a shock to my system. And then being in the water with an animal 20ft, 25ft, 30ft long, my nervous system just didn't know how to compute. It was so much, I don't think I'd ever been that tired ever. It just, it took so much out of me. And then day two, three, four, each day got a little easier cuz I had a better idea of what to expect. And also I didn't. You're covered in fish eggs. You're covered in fish eggs. So the, the imagination that I would become this mermaid, this otherworldly creature and have this like soul bond with a whale shark. It wasn't that, but the real life experience was incredible too. But I just, I don't, I guess I don't really know where I'm leading with the question, but how, how do you see when having guided so many people through these moments, like for somebody who's thinking about possibly planning an experience like that, like what, how do you prepare? What would be good for someone to prepare for what that is? Like.
- [24:28]
Eli Martinez
It'S so different for everybody, it's just valid.
- [24:31]
Danielle Ireland
Not everybody maybe wants to be.
- [24:33]
Eli Martinez
Yeah, there's a few that want to be mermaids for sure on our trips, I'm not going to lie. But yeah, it's just really, these animals are. The whale shark is a great, I call them, they're like gateway animals into a bigger world because like when it comes to seeing orcas and whales and of all different species and sharks, a whale shark is possibly, it's a great ambassador for the species because they're a harmless species. They're just like big giant catfish floating on the surface and it's a wonderful animal for someone of all ages to experience. It really is the whale shark. And I don't know if you had manta rays on your trip as well because sometimes they show up every other year. The manta ray is another ocean angel. They're just, they're just the perfect animal for people, for if you want to experience the ocean, if you want to experience what life is like in the ocean in a Disney way, that is the perfect animal to do it with. It's very safe. It's a phenomenal way to decide if, you know what I would like to do more of things like this or this was perfect. This was enough. You know.
- [25:45]
Danielle Ireland
I want to go back something. Something that you wrote that I really liked that reminded me, even though we are talking about safari, we're talking about adventure, we're talking about animals, I think the more specific we become, in a way, the more universal it becomes. And this quote made me think about a lot of the stuff that you write. It's a Mark Twain quote that travel is fatal to prejudice. Once you see something, you can't unsee something. I want to speak to the why beyond conservation. If I'm not connected to nature, if I'm not connected to animals, and I've got enough going on in my life that conservation, cool. I'm glad someone's taking care of it, but that's not my focus. What would be a personal, selfish reason that would be maybe a call to action that you like? What would be the invitation for somebody individually, not globally, not for any other reason, like why it could change your life to jump into the deep or get in a Jeep with no top and go drive out to a pride of lions. What is the reason that you could articulate why somebody should do that?
- [27:00]
Eli Martinez
I think the wildlife is. They're reminders of where we all came from. We were, all of us, in our DNA. If you look at the generations of people that have lived on this planet, at some point, we were all part of that. We were all out there. There wasn't this separation between us and our wild places, whether it was the ocean, whether it was the jungle. Some of our ancestors had to deal with bears in their front porch. Some of our ancestors had to deal with lions walking through camp. That's something that we have either blocked out or forgotten. Obviously, we've forgotten just because of generations of separation from it. But we are all part of that. We are all part of this world beyond our cars and our homes and our clothes. We are part of nature a hundred percent. We've forgotten this. And I think these are great reminders to remind us, hey, this is where we all come from. This is. We're not separated from these things. We are very much a part of these things. And if anything, there are so many species that although they're no longer relevant in our world, they're so important for our world, not only as reminders, but as part of this giant balance. Because we're all connected in some way, in some form. We're all, for lack of better, we're all one. And I think it's important to remind people that like we need to stay connected. We need to protect these animals because they're much a part of this earth as we are and we have to remind people that they're there. Yeah, that's. This is our home. This is their home. This is our home.
- [28:48]
Danielle Ireland
And I also, what I'm hearing too, it's. They. When you're in communion with nature, you become more in touch with or in tune with your own natural rhythm, your own self. There's. You might actually know him or. Cause I would imagine the community, like the pool you're in terms of career is probably small, I'm just guessing, but. Boyd Vardy, he's from South Africa. He wrote the Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. He has a property in South Africa called Londolozi. It was a game preserve. Okay, but. Yeah, and. But his work in that book is basically teaching people to track wild animals. Helps them become more in touch with the rhythms of nature. And by. Not by default, but through becoming more in tune with tracking nature. You your track, like your path. So I think so many of the clients I attract are struggling with anxiety, depression and burnout. And I think a lot of the confusion and self doubt and head trash is also rooted in I don't know what I'm supposed to do it. Maybe they don't articulate it like that, but it's experience that way of just I don't know what I'm supposed to do as opposed to I want to know what I'm called to do. I want to know what I'm meant to do or what I want to do. My dog never questions when she's hungry, when she's tired. Like she is completely embodied because she doesn't have this giant brain getting in her way of everything. And I love hearing you talk about the more in tune you are with nature, you're reminded that you are nature too.
- [30:27]
Eli Martinez
It's. It's so important for people to stay connected to nature. And it's getting worse. I think it's just part of. Part of what I feel is that they are completely pulling us away from it. I think that unhealthy feeling. I remember having it as a growing up. I remember there was many times where I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't know what my calling was, but I always just. I remember standing there and just looking around saying, something's wrong. I don't belong here.
- [31:01]
Danielle Ireland
That's something wrong. The language I like to use with clients is. That's usually what gets people into an appointment with me first. It's what I say. It's like your smoke detector's going off because your smoke detector can't tell the difference between burning toast or bacon and a fire in some part of your house. But it's just beeping because it senses smoke. Something's wrong. And so I think a lot of times getting that emotional awareness or that clarity starts with something's wrong. And then you sit with that. But then the discomfort. It's like, I think about that story with you and the bull shark. The first time, it's. I either need to chase it and funnel down with it, or I need to run away from it. And I think that tension is what happens every time we hit a big emotion or a fork in the road or we're at a growth edge, we're about to change. But I think that is the following. The path of curiosity is almost always what leads you down to some new sense of understanding about yourself or the world. I wanna. Do you have. Of all of the experiences you've led other people through, do you have. It could be one. It could be more than one. It might even be with a member of your family. But have you seen, like, shifts happen in people that just observed? Because I have, over the years seen many powerful shifts happen in sessions. But it's such an intimate thing. But where you're out in the wild with someone, are there any moments that stand out to you of just being like, whoa, this person is different, or this person is really having an experience here?
- [32:36]
Eli Martinez
Yeah. I have this one gentleman who. He would do adventures, he would do travel on his own. And then he went on one of our trips, a very successful businessman. And I could see that this was just something he was doing for, like.
- [32:54]
Danielle Ireland
That's interesting. That's so interesting.
- [32:56]
Eli Martinez
Yeah, he was. He was on the trip and he was there to experience the animal, but it was almost like a science project. It wasn't like he was super into the end.
- [33:07]
Danielle Ireland
Like, he was intellectualizing it.
- [33:09]
Eli Martinez
He was. It was like. It wasn't like a bucket list. It was like, okay, I'm on this journey of. I'm going to photograph wild now. I've been photographing these other things, and I'm going to photograph wildlife now. We went out there he had the experience and it was almost like this.
- [33:26]
Danielle Ireland
Yeah.
- [33:26]
Eli Martinez
You could feel the shift of just now. I get it. I got goosebumps thinking about it. Yeah. It was like now. Okay. Okay. You know, it was. It was.
- [33:36]
Danielle Ireland
It was like his body like it kicked on.
- [33:38]
Eli Martinez
Yeah. Something inside him came alive and it was just like more. It was a completely different. More than when he first started.
- [33:47]
Danielle Ireland
Something inside him came alive that gave me chills and almost wonder if it's the distinction of when you were describing a sunset. Like the difference between driving in your car and you're getting somewhere as the sun happens to be going down and you're doing a million other things versus watching a sunset and taking it in. So not being just a passive observer, but being a present participant in the moment.
- [34:14]
Eli Martinez
Yeah. Purposely trying to watch. I'm going to this spot because I want to see the sunset. Or I'm going to. I'm going to stop, put my phone down and I'm going to watch a sunset. Or even if you take your phone, you know, you're watching it through your phone as you want to record it. Because that's what we do now. Just that act alone of purposely trying to do that is significant. It is life changing to sometimes for some people.
- [34:39]
Danielle Ireland
That's awesome. That was a really good answer. I want to hear a little bit more. So I was circling back. You were starting to connect how that first dive you were scuba diving, you saw the bull shark. You were swimming up to the surface. And then you almost started to shift to how that led you down this path. I want to go back to that and maybe if I could jump forward a little bit more. In your story, you created Shark diver magazine in 2003 and you said you had 25 publications. And then it really. The business model really shifted to your excursions. I want to know more about deciding to launch a magazine. That sounds so ambitious. 25 me trying to put a blog out sometimes feels like a real effort. But 25 publications is no small thing. And then you shifted it to excursions. It's one thing to do something yourself as a hobbyist or as an enthusiast, but you're leading people with all varying degrees of experience. Some people that want to be mermaids. And you're leading all types of people from all over the world on these trips. And you're dealing with a lot of personalities. I would love to know more about how you made that shift from the magazine into leading your safaris.
- [35:56]
Eli Martinez
Yeah, it was. So I started the magazine in 2003. I didn't know anything about publishing. I didn't know anything about photography. I didn't know anybody in the business. And I had never really written anything outside of my journals before. So it was just like, I am.
- [36:16]
Danielle Ireland
I am so excited by this. You're like, I am going to build a rocket ship, but I don't have an engineering degree. I don't understand the mechanics, and I've never flown on a plane, but I'm going to build a rocket ship.
- [36:26]
Eli Martinez
That's what I did. Yeah. So I just. I went all in. I've always had a love affair with magazines. As far as any sport that I was into had a magazine dedicated to it with mountain biking, surfing, rock climbing, scuba diving, but there was nothing dedicated to shark diving. And that's the area that I fell in love with. And I said, here's my. And I really was trying to find a vehicle and a way to get into the industry to make a name for myself. Coming from landlocked Texas, there was. This is my way in. This was an opportunity. And this is all pre social media. So it was all from scratch and trying to create this business. And yeah, we did it for eight years. I published 25 issues. And it was a lot of fun. And it was a lot of laying in bed going, what the hell did I do? Why did I do this to myself? And this is crazy. And it was fueled by also the first magazine. I came out with a family friend. I overheard him in the distance say, I wonder if it's going to be around in a year. And that. So I wrote those words down and I put it in my office, and that inspired me to make it to the first year. It was a. And then after that, I made it to the second and the third. It was just this labor of love, this chance for me to tell stories, chance for me to share this world with people. Because when I first started and when I was looking through the books, it really felt like a club, and it really felt more like a researchers club more than anything else. It was like the guys who had access to all these amazing places were usually the scientists, the shark scientists and shark researchers. And it really didn't feel like it was open to guys like me. So this is the world that I wanted to create. I wanted to create a world where it was open to, you know, sharks are accessible to the world. And that's what I wanted to do with this magazine and what I wanted to do with my storytelling is invite everybody who is really interested in sharks like myself, and help them find Places where they could dive with these animals and read stories from fellow people like myself that were not all scientists. We're not all research. Yeah, so that was the idea. That was what I really wanted to do when I started the magazine. And then trying to get advertisers to be interested in us when we had 0 subscribers and no real history. And it was just like. That was an impossible feat. So I don't know where I came up with the idea. Somebody either shared that idea with me or I was doing my research. I just decided to try to organize. Oh, I know what it was. It was one of my potential sponsors asking me to organize a trip. And that's what started the opportunities. But it's a great way to raise money. If I can get people to travel with us, we can use that money to help publish the magazine. And that's what the first trips were. So May I ran our first expedition to North Carolina for sand tiger sharks in May of 2003. So that first year coming out of the box, we. We brought some people and we just started doing that. So from the first year we organized those trips and then we just, just kept going and. And it was. And it ended up being the way I funded the magazine for the first eight years. I didn't. After that, I really didn't chase sponsors very much because I just didn't like. I'd go to a travel show and then we. And it would be. I would end up being that magazine guy that's just trying to get money from me. And I didn't like that feeling at all. So I just said, you know what, I don't need to do this. This is what the trips are about. It's reader sponsored. And I can do whatever I want with a magazine. I can tell the stories the way I want to tell them. And so that's what I did.
- [40:08]
Danielle Ireland
I think because we've all been sold so many different times through so many different channels. It's like you can feel it when it's coming at you and nobody likes that. So it's just so much. This is what it is. This is what we're doing. This is what I like. Gosh. Having come from different sales backgrounds and have family and my husband who's in sales. It's like when a sale happens, you're really just offering information. I don't. My guess is you're not selling people. On going on your trips, people are already interested. You're giving them the information and then that's when they say yes. But you're not going out selling people on doing it. I feel like I'm trying to do that for you because I just think more people need to do it. But you are very intentionally into doing that. I want to acknowledge the predator myth. I found it really interesting that you were passionate about dispelling the predator myth. I want to understand that better because obviously we all know how sharks are portrayed. We've seen all those things. But I think the ocean, deep ocean, and what we fear in the ocean, it correlates to emotions, big, uncomfortable feelings. I don't think it's called a therapy myth. But there has to be something terribly wrong to seek that type of help or seek that type of guidance. And I want to know more. In your world, in your space, what is the predator myth, and what do you want people to know?
- [41:28]
Eli Martinez
Oh, for me, it's exactly what I was brought up believing about sharks is just that sharks are mindless monsters and they're just out to get you. And the moment you step in the ocean, there's going to be a shark down there. And I've heard this my entire life that, oh, I'll never jump off a boat into the ocean because there's just sharks waiting me. And it's completely opposite. I really wish that if I just went out into the ocean, jumped off a boat, and there'd be a bunch of sharks there. It's just not the reality. It takes so much work to find these animals. It takes a lot of effort. And usually the people that get lucky and say, oh, look, there's a great white under my boat. They're the ones who don't want to see sharks. The people that want to see sharks, like a great white under their boat never get to see a great white under boat. That's just the way nature works. But, yeah, for me, it was more about trying to help people pass this prejudice past this belief system that is ingrained in us, that's actually probably ingrained in our DNA. So it's very much ingrained in all of us from the beginning. And the more I understood sharks, the more I wanted to get rid of that stigma as best I could. I started doing a lot of talks at schools and helping kids with sharing what I know about sharks. And I, through the years, really figured out what works and what doesn't. I used to show pictures of sharks and try to get people to dispel their fear with just a picture of shark, but in their mind, it's still a shark. But when I started sharing videos of myself with A shark in my arms and giving a back rub and rolling him upside down. And just like a shark sticking his face between my knees so I can scratch his back. And showing these kids these images and showing these kids this other side. And you could see it. You see it in the teachers. They're just like, wait, Wait. What? Wait, what? It's like you wake them up. You wake up something primal in them and say, wait, that's possible.
- [43:25]
Danielle Ireland
Yes, that you just said it. Because I think that you don't have to prove to someone what you're saying is true, but what you're showing them is it's possible. I think it's when you don't believe it's possible, that's when people freeze or shut down or want to give up or stop. And it's when we're afraid. We want control, we want contracts, we want guarantees, we want promises. We need something ironclad, but there is no guarantee. But knowing that there's something possible, that's really. I feel that really deeply. Yeah, you're igniting possibility in people. You also just reminded me, too, I love leopard sharks. I've never swam with them, but I love leopard sharks. And I feel like that, that shark more than any other. You see them almost act like little dogs. Like, just anyone listening, just Google videos of, like, leopard shark pups and this where they just act like dogs. So cute. What is the. What do you think is the biggest gap in our understanding of not just predators, but marine life, wildlife? What's our biggest gap in understanding?
- [44:29]
Eli Martinez
I think it's a disconnect. Like you said earlier. It's, oh, I'm glad somebody out there is doing it. That kind of thing. It's. It's not for me. I got too many things. Things I'm doing in my life. My life is a mess. Lack of empathy for something. And that has to do with disconnect because it's more of. It's talking about the shark. It's one thing to talk about. It's another thing for people to see it. And then me roll the tiger just like, open that up in your mind. The fascination in your mind of, oh, wow, like, I didn't even know this was a thing, or if it's even possible. And that's what I've tried to do. Predators and with crocodiles and anacondas and all the other animals that I dive with is just showing the other side of these animals and their place in the world and how important they are. And it's not just when we jump in the water with an anaconda. And people are so surprised to know that it's. The anaconda is terrified and all he's trying to do is hide from us. So you're looking at a 18 foot, 20 foot long snake. The moment I jump in the water and he's just like, where do I hide? It's like he's completely terrified of my presence.
- [45:32]
Danielle Ireland
The crocodile, those images just. Everyone should visit Eli's social media channels as soon as you stop listening to this episode. Just go scroll through and look. But the crocodile one those late night scrolling when I see one of those images that stops me in my tracks. And I thought I was pretty open minded with nature, man, that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. That's wild.
- [45:56]
Eli Martinez
I used to say crocs are the new sharks.
- [45:59]
Danielle Ireland
Okay, sure. I feel that makes sense.
- [46:02]
Eli Martinez
So yeah, because for years, right when I started the magazine in 2003, it was still Steve Irwin, the late great Steve Irwin was still diving with tiger sharks in a cage. On his show he was showing that, diving with them in a cage. So for years they're like, it's impossible to dive with tigers outside of a cage. Then on the Bahamas and Fiji, they're diving with tigers outside the cage. And like you can do it during the day but you can't do it at night. And so we start diving with tigers at night and then like you can do that with a tiger but you can't do it with a great white. We're diving outside the cage with great whites. And so I mean it was just like, well, you could do it with sharks but you can't do it with crocodiles.
- [46:40]
Danielle Ireland
You're right, you're, you're right. It's the same prejudice just moving into a different phase.
- [46:44]
Eli Martinez
Right? Oh, interesting. Same thing with orcas too. Like you can, when they're like you can't swim with an orca. Well, you started swimming with orcas and you can do it with these, but you can't do it with the pelagic orcas because they're a lot more aggressive and they eat sea lions. And so we're diving with those species too. It's just they're always trying to find it and it's usually people who don't swim with these animals that are creating the ideas that people believe, you know?
- [47:08]
Danielle Ireland
Yeah, like the people that aren't the mechanics are the one trying to pump the brakes. Um, I, so I saw on your social media just this morning that you said the duck bill Platypus is your unicorn? That was. This wasn't intended to be a question, but I have to ask, why is the dichoplat picture unicorn?
- [47:25]
Eli Martinez
As a kid, that was one of the first, most exotic animals I had ever seen.
- [47:31]
Danielle Ireland
Yeah.
- [47:32]
Eli Martinez
This book in second grade that I read about the platypus, and it was the fact that it lays eggs and that it's got a duck bill and it looks like a beaver, but it's not. And it was just a fascination was born in that moment. And it was something that, like, I have to see this animal. Like, I just have to. So it's always been. It's been my unicorn. I have. I'm ashamed to say I've never been to Australia, but as soon as I do that is like task number one. I gotta see a platypus.
- [48:03]
Danielle Ireland
Like, okay, that was gonna be my follow up question because I embarrassingly don't know where the platypuses live. So I was gonna ask you, where would one find one? Okay, so Australia. Perfect. I actually think there's a couple of Australian listeners I don't know where in Australia. I just see this map and wherever it's highlighted, that shows where people have downloaded episodes. So anyone in Australia, don't miss your opportunity to catch a platypus because Eli's gonna come snap some photos. Okay, so we're nearing the end, and I'm really excited to lay out the don't cut your own bangs moment with you. Cause I have a feeling you probably have too many that could just fill up its own episode. But I would love to know what a don't cut your own bang moment is for you.
- [48:46]
Eli Martinez
I spent a big part of my youth trying to become a professional bull rider growing up in Texas. Yeah.
- [48:57]
Danielle Ireland
Okay. Okay, this is good. This is already. This is already one of the top two. Okay, go on.
- [49:02]
Eli Martinez
I wanted to be a world champion bull rider. I ate, drank, dream, slept, dreamed bull riding. I was in love with the sport. And it was during. I was working on my pro permit when I cracked my hip at a show. And I gave myself three months to heal. And it was during that time one of my best friends got a scuba diving certification. And he was telling me about it. So I had three months off. So I took the time to get my scuba certification. After I got scuba certified, I just wanna.
- [49:33]
Danielle Ireland
I just wanna put a brief pause. So your time off was actually you healing a fractured hip? You weren't. Okay, so in your off time with a fractured hip, you got your scuba certification?
- [49:45]
Eli Martinez
Yes, Exactly.
- [49:46]
Danielle Ireland
Okay, cool. Okay, go on, go on.
- [49:52]
Eli Martinez
So it was on that, on that bowl that I. When I cracked my hip, I got. I got scuba certified. I went to Cozumel, I saw a shark. I came back from that adventure. I was, I went to my next rodeo and I was behind the chutes and I fell off my bull. And all I had, I usually would throw a fit when I would buck off. I was just so angry at myself. But after that ride, I was behind the chutes and I had Caribbean music, blue water, white sand sharks floating through my mind. I was like, I'm done. I'm going shark diving. And so not becoming a professional bull rider was the best thing that never happened to me.
- [50:34]
Danielle Ireland
Oh, that is so. That is good. And I feel like those, those moments, that perspective is unfortunately earned in hindsight. It's so hard to trust in those moments when you're down with a fractured hip or saying goodbye to an old dream, feeling like you're starting over, that is hard. I mean, in your magazine was that too. But you can even see now in the full expression of what your business is, how learning to tell stories, learning to create a narrative, learning to take images and then not just take images that are clear and focused, but that are also telling a visual story. And you pass that on to your daughter, who she's a wildlife photographer in the making. I mean, she is and is continuing to be. But it's like all of those steps, but it's. All of those things led to the next thing. But I think it only could have because you followed the curiosity as opposed to maybe drowning in what you were losing. You allowed yourself to become curious about where you wanted to go. And I think that's a really remarkable quality. That's a good. That's a great emotionally resilient quality.
- [51:52]
Eli Martinez
Yeah, well, thanks. I just, yeah, it was, it was. That was a huge chunk of my life that I just. I gave up. But it felt right. It felt right. And it was just like. That's why I think maybe that. Well, let's see if he's still around in a year. Doing that came from. Just because I was like, okay, he's going to be a bull rider now. He was going to be a shark dyke.
- [52:15]
Danielle Ireland
Yes. My background was on ballroom dance. I taught before that. I did commercial acting. My plan was to move to la. I had a very similar about face, very big pivot and started teaching ballroom dance. Did that for about seven years. And I just felt that pressure where I'm about to grow out of my shell. I knew it was not this, but I wasn't crystal clear on what that was. I just knew not this. And so little, step by little step, I found my way in grad school, and I was about 11 years older than every other person in that particular class when I decided to switch careers and do what I'm doing now. But yeah, I always appreciate when people can share those moments like that, because I think what I'm doing is trying to build up a bank of stories that would have comforted those versions of me that was just so terrified about to do something new. This was so exciting. Thank you for being here. I'm excited for everybody to check out your account, look at all your images, sign up for a trip, just take the leap, put a deposit down on an adventure, just scroll through, pick an animal that terrifies you, and just say yes to that one. I can't wait for everybody to hear this.
- [53:29]
Eli Martinez
Awesome.
- [53:29]
Danielle Ireland
Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's episode of don't cut your own veins. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did recording it, because this, in so many ways was a dream come true. If you couldn't tell by the episode itself, I want to leave you with a quote that I pulled from Eli that was said in the episode, but really is the heart of what this episode is, as well as what I hope to bring to every episode. When people experience the wild, they understand, and when they understand, they care. If you replace the wild with the self, when people experience the self, they understand, and when they understand, they care more. I understand my own emotional landscape. The more equipped and empowered I feel to navigate it, the more empathetic, the more compassionate, the more connected I feel with the people in my life, the people who I believe have wronged me, with my past, I feel more hopeful for my future. That connection to the self, our essential self, or nature, the natural world around us, is, I think, what makes us unique in the experience we get to have on this planet. So if you haven't already decided you're going to book your adventure, this might be your call, whether that adventure is outside your window looking at a sunset. But I want that for you. I want that for me. And I think we all deserve to have that kind of magic. We can make it if we want it. Thank you for tuning in this week. I look forward to catching you next time. And as always, I hope you continue to have a wonderful day.
- [55:20]
Marketing Voice
Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.