From Stressed to Steady with Dr Kate Lund

Summary

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Don't Cut Your Own Bangs

Episode: From Stressed to Steady with Dr. Kate Lund

Host: Danielle Ireland
Guest: Dr. Kate Lund (Clinical Psychologist, Peak Performance Coach, Author)
Date: October 27, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Danielle Ireland welcomes Dr. Kate Lund—a psychologist with over 15 years of experience, peak performance coach, bestselling author, and TEDx speaker—to discuss practical ways to cultivate resilience in the face of overwhelm. Drawing from Dr. Lund's journey as a child with a rare medical condition, an athlete, a mom, and a mental health professional, the episode unpacks how personal context and intentionality can help us move from feeling stressed to steady. The conversation is rich with real-life stories, actionable tools, and reminders to embrace both the messy and the meaningful moments.

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Defining Resilience Through Lived Experience

• Dr. Lund’s Background: Lived with hydrocephalus as a child, requiring repeated surgeries and frequent hospitalizations ([07:27]).
• Parents Modeled Resilience: Focused on what she could do, not her limitations. This mindset became the foundation for Dr. Lund’s own resilience ([08:16]).
• Sport as a Channel: Chose tennis (a safe sport for her condition) over hockey, cultivating skill and identity. Tennis became a central part of her emotional coping ([09:21]).
• "Second Place" and Internal Drive: Dr. Lund rarely won first place but found meaning in participation and progress, not only outcomes ([12:47])—

  "For me it was really, truly passion driven from the inside out because I appreciated how much it meant to me to be able to be there in the first place." —Dr. Kate Lund [13:31]

2. Context as a Tool Against Overwhelm

• Personal and Social Context
  • Context helps define realistic expectations and prevents us from falling victim to comparison, especially in the age of social media ([17:18]).
  • Dr. Lund describes how overwhelming social media context can be, especially as a parent (e.g., college admissions information overload) ([18:31]).

  "Helping folks to build awareness of their context and what's going to be most important in helping them thrive within that context." —Dr. Kate Lund [17:18]

• Comparison & Self-Acceptance
  • Social comparison is natural but exacerbated by social media. Recognizing and anchoring in our unique context lets us flourish on our own terms.

3. Intentionality, Goals, and Mindfulness

• Intentional Living
  • Being intentional with energy and attention is essential in a world full of distractions ([21:25]).
  • Clarifying one’s “why” (à la Simon Sinek) helps prioritize and reduces overwhelm ([22:16]).
• Mindfulness as a Stress Tool
  • Dr. Lund recommends the “relaxation response” by Herbert Benson: pick a soothing word/phrase, breathe deeply for 5 minutes in the morning and 5 minutes at night ([23:27]).
  • Mindfulness isn’t just the practice—it’s about internalizing calm so you can apply it in moments of real stress ([24:56]).

  "Really want folks to start to internalize what it feels like to be modulated in the moment." —Dr. Kate Lund [24:23]

  • Presence allows a calmer nervous system for both everyday stresses and high-pressure events, whether games or parenting young children ([26:15]).

4. Community and Social Support

• Connection Looks Different for Everyone:
  • For Dr. Lund, connecting with people while pushing her twins in a stroller built community and sustained wellbeing as a new mom ([27:38], [28:15]).
  • Emphasized that the form of community depends on context: online, hobby meetups, or traditional mom groups.

5. Emotional Intelligence

• "You Can't Give What You Don’t Have":

  • Helping clients become aware of how their emotions affect themselves and their surroundings ([29:55], [33:52]).
  • Techniques: mindful conversation, careful listening, reflecting, and especially journaling.

• Journaling Prompts

  • The "daily wins" exercise:
    • Write 3–5 things that went well each day and why;
    • 3–5 things you wish went differently;
    • Pick one from each list to reflect further ([35:35]).

    "...the wins part, it neutralizes our lens and doesn't keep us stuck in that negative loop." —Dr. Kate Lund [36:35]

6. Managing Energy and Avoiding Burnout

• It's a “work in process”: Dr. Lund practices mindful decision-making, regular exercise (Peloton workouts), and is careful about commitments ([37:43]).

• Energy budgeting: The host discusses how some activities energize while others deplete, and Dr. Lund recognizes the hard-earned lessons of overcommitting ([39:19]).

• "It's a work in process. And I'm making some tweaks moving into the new year... I think this past year I took on too much." —Dr. Kate Lund [39:16]

7. The “Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs” Moment

• Dr. Lund shares a recent on-air “white room” experience where, despite preparation, she lost her train of thought on live TV, underscoring that even experts stumble. The lesson: be kind to yourself, regroup, and remember you can always recover ([44:08]).

• "Sometimes there are those moments where, well, maybe more than sometimes, I do bump up against that cusp of overwhelm..." —Dr. Kate Lund [43:16]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Building my life around, finding incredible possibilities on the other side of challenge kept me driven and ultimately helped me find my true calling.” —Quoted by Danielle Ireland, originally Dr. Kate Lund [10:56]
• "Your experience could also lend itself to feeling victimized by your body or powerless to circumstances... But there was something that really stuck about, all right, this is me, this is who I am, this is what I'm up to and this is my best and that's enough." —Dr. Kate Lund [14:16]
• "Connection is going to look different for all of us. And this is what I work with folks on as well. There's no one size fits all. And that goes back to context." —Dr. Kate Lund [29:25]
• "...when I feel overwhelmed, I feel like I'm in a boat without oars and the water's choppy. I've just lost that clarity of intentionality." —Danielle Ireland [41:19]

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Timestamp Guide for Key Segments

• 05:21 — Dr. Lund’s personal backstory and how it shaped her approach to resilience
• 09:21 — Tennis as a source of identity, resilience, and connection
• 12:47 — Lessons from being a “second place” athlete and internal vs. external motivation
• 17:18 — The value of context and managing social comparison
• 21:25 — Navigating intentional living and the tension between gratitude and striving
• 23:27 — The “relaxation response” technique for stress
• 27:38 — Building community as a new, overwhelmed parent
• 29:55 — Emotional intelligence: you can’t pour from an empty cup
• 35:35 — Journaling prompts around wins and learning moments
• 37:43 — Managing commitments and burnout; intentional energy use
• 43:16 — “Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs” moment: the TV live “white room”
• 44:08 — Lessons in handling mistakes with self-compassion

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Episode Takeaways

• Resilience is built through context, not just in spite of adversity but by embracing limitations as launching pads for growth.
• Intentionality—in energy, goals, and self-care—is key to moving from overwhelmed to steady.
• Mindfulness isn’t just a buzzword; small, practical routines can create enduring steadiness.
• Community and connection are unique to each of us, but universally necessary for wellbeing.
• Emotional intelligence must be cultivated in ourselves before we can offer it to others—especially as parents or leaders.
• Mistakes and “messy moments” are normal—respond with gentleness, not self-judgment.

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Resources Mentioned:

• Dr. Kate Lund’s book: Step Away: A Modern Guide for Overwhelmed Parents to Reclaim Strength and Connection
• Dr. Lund’s podcast: The Optimized Mind
• Host Danielle Ireland’s children’s book: Wrestling a Walrus for Little People with Big Feelings
• Guided journal: A Journal for Unearthing You

For more information: Check the episode show notes for all relevant links to Dr. Kate Lund’s resources and Danielle Ireland’s work.

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Transcript

[Dr. Kate Lund]

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[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

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[Dr. Kate Lund]

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[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

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[Dr. Kate Lund]

Iphone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Wow, impressive.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Let me try.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

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[Dr. Kate Lund]

Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

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[Dr. Kate Lund]

Us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

So what are we having for launch? Dude, work here is done. The 24 month bill credit is on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit sended balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $199.99 A new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 182025 Visit T mobile.com hello. Hello, this is Danielle Ireland and you are listening to an episode of don't cut your own bangs. And today's special guest is Dr. Kate Lund. You're really gonna want to sit down, grab a notepad and a pen or take notes in your notes app while you're out on your walk. Wherever you're listening, Dr. Kate's mission is to help parents and professionals feel more resilient and more empowered when facing overwhelm. And who doesn't need that? I sure did. And what I love about Kate's messaging is, is that it is. It's simple. And it's clear for someone like myself who lives in this topic all the time, even if it's something you're familiar with, we all need a refresher. And what's so refreshing about Dr. Cates perspective is she's coming from the lens of a scientist and an athlete hearing the same thing, but in a slightly different way. And sometimes that's the exact way you needed to hear it to take your own. Knowing your own discovery a little bit deeper and further or feel more embodied with it. But let me tell you a little bit more about Dr. Kate Lund. Imagine if your greatest superpower could exist simply by discovering the extraordinary within the ordinary. That is exactly what Dr. Kate Lund believes to be at the heart of building resilient communities. She works with passionate parents, motivated athletes and transformational leaders to thrive at peak performance levels and reach their full potential. As a licensed clinical psychologist of over 15 years, a peak performance coach, bestselling author and a TEDX speaker, she is a multi hyphenate who specializes in the topic of resilience and what she wants more than anything is to make your life feel smoother, easier and more manageable. Her unique experiences moving through life and growing from a young child with a rare medical condition to becoming an athlete and then becoming a professional woman and mother. All of those experiences inform the lens and context of this work in a way that really leaves a beautiful message. So I'm excited for you to learn more about her and her work and also benefit from all of her information and expertise. Get ready to sit back, relax and welcome Dr. Kate Lund. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of don't cut your own bangs. I hope that you enjoyed listening because I thoroughly enjoyed making it and I benefited from it greatly. My life was right in the season, like right in the sweet spot for the work that Dr. Cate is putting out into the world. This message on creating context, remembering mindfulness, allowing that mindfulness to follow you throughout the day and also through her don't cut your own bang moment. Just maybe allow those messy, bumpy moments in life to exist and be and move on. Who doesn't need that reminder? I did. I absolutely did. Dr. Kate Lund, welcome to the don't cut your own banks podcast. I am so thrilled to have you here because you are passionate about and well informed in a topic that I personally need, that I know everybody listening needs. How we can cultivate resilience and tap into and discover resilience in the face of feeling overwhelmed. Easier said than done, but you seem to have tools, resources and a process that make it sound positive, possible. So I'm very thrilled to have you here and welcome.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Well, thank you so much. I'm really glad to be here.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

It's my pleasure. Yeah, it's really exciting. So Kate, you are also the host of the Optimize Mind podcast and author of the book Step away A modern guide for overwhelmed parents to reclaim strength and connection. So Kate, you wrote a Book for overwhelmed parents. Is this rooted in your own personal experience or just something you've observed from afar as you're in your clinical psychology practice for 15 years?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, no, that is a great question. The book is written through my lens. As a child actually growing up with a medical issue, my parents had to be very resilient and that I've reflected back, thought about that as I was writing and then my life as a mom, I have 18 year old twin boys, so have been through that kind of trajectory of momhood, so there's some overwhelm there. And then of course, my 20 plus years as a psychologist, seeing and working with kids and families, struggling with so much because inevitably everyone's gonna hit a challenge out there. And so the book brings together those three lenses.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Nice. So your childhood being raised by your parents and how your parents cultivated and modeled resilience for you. Then how you internalized and processed that in real time raising your own two twin boys, which. Oh my gosh, I, I have two that are four and two. But if I had two that were two at the same time, that humbles me. That humbles me greatly. Imagining. I don't know how familiar you are with Disney movies, but that movie, the Incredibles, the little boy, Jack. Jack who could split and multiply. Like my, my son is in. And I'm going to say all of this and I hope everybody listening knows I love him dearly, but he is Jack, Jack. He just splits. It's like he. And if there's like 10 of him running around at once and I can't catch him. And he's also, he's also here, by the way, today he's home. His daycare is closed. So if he busts in, you know, this is just going to feel even more authentic and on, on topic with what we're talking about. But yes, tell me. Take me back to your childhood then. Let's start there. So you had a rare medical condition and your parents had to cultivate resilience. The question is looping around to something I had already planned to talk to you about, which was when we had talked previously, your experience as an athlete. You're a tennis player.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

So you had a rare medical condition as a child. And obviously you, you achieved great things with sports or within the world of sports. So please bridge that gap for me, fill in a little bit of that story.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, sure, absolutely. So when I was four, as a normal, healthy, active four year old, and all of a sudden I started getting really bad headaches, I started throwing up in the middle of the night. Couldn't really, really articulate it at 4. But so my parents were baffled. The doctors were baffled because imaging technology back then wasn't what it is now. So they couldn't really figure out what was wrong for a while. But fortunately, they did figure out that I had this thing called hydrocephalus, which is when the cerebral spinal fluid isn't circulating as it should, causes pressure to build up on the brain. So that's the bad news. Good news is that it can be managed with something called a shunt, which is a surgically implanted drain that circulates the fluid for us. And so I got shunt early when I was four, four and a half. Bad news is, the shunts break, particularly in childhood, as you're growing, et cetera, et cetera. And so what that meant was tons of time in and out of the hospital, back to school, looking different, feeling different, missing a lot of content. I often had, like half a head of shaved hair. I had glasses, wasn't awesome. And so the cool thing is my parents really focused on who I was as a person as opposed to who wasn't. The condition that I happened to have. They focused on what I could do as opposed to what I couldn't do. And when the shunt was working, I was fine. So it was kind of like, yeah, you've got yours, you've got expectations, all these things. So that was a really great message for me early on. And the piece about focusing on what I could do as what I as opposed to what I couldn't do brought us to tennis because I couldn't play hockey like my brother. I really wanted to be a hockey player. I was kind of a cowboy back in the day, and I really wanted to be a hockey player, but that was out because if I got hit in the head, that wasn't going to be good.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Okay.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

So, couldn't do things where there was a risk of getting hit in the head, couldn't hang upside down, do all that kind of fun gymnastics that all the other girls were doing. So tennis, I gravitated towards it and I was pretty good at it. So my parents, my friend's parents, who also had kids playing tennis, really helped me to cultivate that skill. And it really became a really integral piece of my identity and really meant so much to me. And I just. I don't play a ton of tennis anymore. My most recent tennis has been as a practice partner for one of my boys. But it just, it's. It's always Been a really important piece of who I am and a piece of what helped me through really difficult moments in my childhood.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Gosh, there's a lot there. When you were describing being a young child and having something would happen with your shunt and you would have to go back in to have a surgery to repair, and then having half of your head shaved and your glasses, there was something so visceral about those. Those formative moments. There are so many swaths of childhood that I don't remember, but they're almost like these zeroed in, zoomed in moments where I can remember, like the feel of a desk in second grade and with that little metal tin pencil tray and the sensation in my body walking into a school cafeteria and not quite knowing where to sit. Because I think as we're talking about these concepts of overwhelm and resilience, they sound big. And I think that when we particularly talk about steps to either recovery or skill building, everyone loves a list, right? It's so tangible and accessible. But I appreciate you offering that detail because I think that particularly in the work that I do, when we are deep in struggle, it's the little versions of us that are almost always what I love working through, like internal family systems or IFS. Little Kate before she became tennis playing Kate and Dr. Kate, she's still in you too. And those experiences, those imprints are so real and. Yeah, yeah. So thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And so it brings you to tennis. How did. So I'm gonna actually read a quote to you, if you don't mind. And this is. I'm quoting you back to you. Building my life around, finding incredible possibilities on the other side of challenge kept me driven and ultimately helped me find my true calling. So one of the things I remember in our conversation before we scheduled this interview, you talked about your. Your life as a tennis player when you were really active in tennis. And please correct me if I'm not getting this exactly right, but you said something to the effect of I was a like second place tennis player. I never won the first place trophy. Now that was something too, that. God, it just like struck me to my core. That seems to not just your experience as an athlete, but that the striving for greatness that true. I guess true athletes have. I don't know if I necessarily possessed that in me. I was chasing butterflies and wanting to sing songs, but. But can you tell me more about that pursuit to be number one and how that has also cultivated resilience for you in different ways?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, at the core I was just, I was happy to be out there playing and it's true, I rare rarely won the first place trophy. I've got a lot of runner up trophies and to me that was awesome. That felt great. There was always a little piece of me like, oh, you know, one of my best friends to this day was the kid who was getting all the first place trophies. But there was a lot of. I think the lesson that I learned in that is I really did know what it was like to not be able to play because I had to miss seasons or miss tournaments or miss practice sessions because it was too hot. And there were things because I had to be really cognizant and careful about my physical well being. And so when I was out there I really did appreciate it. I was playing because I loved it from the inside out and I think that was a really important lesson because some of the kids around me who may have been a little bit naturally more gifted or what have you, were winning all those first place trophies. There was a lot of external accolade for them and when that went away, they didn't really play anymore, they didn't really like it anymore. But I'm not kind of criticizing that, I'm just saying that for me it was really, truly passion driven from the inside out because I appreciated how much it meant to me to be able to be there in the first place because there were so many moments where I wasn't able to be there and I was stuck on the sidelines or actually in the hospital or something along those lines. So I think that was a big lesson that came out of it and also taught me that if I was out there doing my best, and I know it sounds a little bit cliche, but it really is true, if I'm out there doing my best, that's going to be enough within my context because my context was something that became very clear to me early on. And sure, there was always a little piece of me that made me wish, oh, I wish I was more like, you know, so and so, who can do things more easily than I can or what have you. But there was something that really stuck about, all right, this is me, this is who I am, this is what I'm up to and this is my best and that's enough, that's okay. Meaning there weren't those moments where I was like, I wish I could do more. But I think that's where my parents really helped create that lens for me because I had some challenges, I had some Struggles. But I also had a lot of possibility, and that possibility is what I held onto within my context, not thinking it needed to be more or better. That came later.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

But anyway, I love that you're bringing up context because I was curious as you were talking about the perspective you had. I was. Well, how did you find that? Because I can also see how easily your experience could also lend itself to feeling victimized by your body or powerless to circumstances outside of your control. But you're acknowledging that there were days where you struggled too. There was that comparative. Just seeing other people with different experiences and having a different ride in this life than you. But I'd love to talk a little bit more about the context of your life, because it's making me think of a couple of different things. One, it was making me think about social media and social comparison and community, and the other thing it was making me think about was art and play. So with art and play, the rules and the context are what make the game fun. Because you understand your role, you understand the expectation, how I participate. I understand what to do and what I'm in pursuit of. Or with art, creating the constraint can also optimize the creativity. It's like with there's no box. It's almost like standing in a hobby lobby with paralysis. There's just too many options. And then with community and social media, I've heard social psychologists talk about how our minds as social creatures can really conceptualize, like about a hundred people. Like where I fit within a hundred, but with access to seeing versions of people's lives in there's what, 8.5 billion people? Not everyone has a smartphone, but let's say 6 billion. I don't know. It's almost impossible to wrap your head around the frame of reference or the comparison that's happening within that. To bring this back now to your story and expertise, is creating context or a reference point one of the steps to helping overwhelm that you guide people through?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, it absolutely is. Because helping folks to build awareness of their context and what's going to be most important in helping them thrive within that context. How can we help them to maximize their potential within that context? Because really, at the end of the day, that's what we have. We have ourselves, we have who we are and our own unique context. I always help folks to see that context clearly. And we build from there. And it's not always easy because comparison is human nature. Right. And it's not made any easier by social media and all these amazing images and all of These amazing things that we're seeing out there. I myself, I'll give you a little example of, and I hope this isn't tangential, but what I'm seeing all the time on social media right now, which is making me a little nutty, one of my boys is applying to college right now and social media. And I don't know if this is because I'm thinking about it, I'm talking about it, I here and there about college admissions, this and that. But every essay coach on the planet, he's talking to me on Instagram about isn't how you write the best essay.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

This is how you do the best.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

This, this is how you do the best that. I'm like, okay, he's okay, he's doing it. He's making this happen. He's got support at school. I get, regardless of context, get sucked into. Right? Yeah, it's a lot. And so helping folks to filter that out, easier said than done, but it's a part of the process.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

How do you, whether we're talking within your context as an athlete and a tennis player, or in your context as a parent or as a professional, where how do you discern the sort of mindset of optimization and like there's always more I could do because it sounds like gratitude and appreciation is another aspect or relationship that you've really cultivated within yourself that I can appreciate within the context of my life. All of these things are true. And this is, this is what greatness is in within my context. But so much of the messaging it feels like we receive is. But you could do more. But you could do more. And so where do you like, massage that relationship for yourself?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, that is such a great question. And it's hard, right? It's really, really hard. And again, taking that time to step back, reflect, reflect on what is, what is your kind of primary goal? I'm asking myself, what have you done to move in that direction? Do you really need to be adding on all this extraneous stuff and direction to the pile? It's much easier said than done. And I haven't mastered it yet. And it's an ongoing process, but it's a really important aspect of it all. And it's that idea of creating space, which is again, really hard because we're all moving through life in a million miles an hour and it's hard to slow down and take that step back, particularly when we have goals in mind, particularly when we're trying to build something. I guess that's a long winded way of Saying it's an ongoing process, but it comes down to awareness, creating space, managing your stress response through. There's so many ways that we can do that. I like mini meditations. Exercise is huge. Connecting with folks, social support is huge. Engaging in hobbies, things that bring you joy and moments of light at points through the day is important. So it's a very intentional process that I believe myself, but it's at the same time a work in process because it's not always easy to master.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Okay, three things I really want to tease out. So intention. I love intentionality. And. Well, what was the other thing? Intentionality. Then you talked about the. Oh, come on, brain, you can do it. Wait, wait. Oh, goals. That's what it was. Okay, you talked about goals and intentionality. So when you were talking about goals, it really reminded me of Simon Sinek's work. He wrote Start with why and then you talked about intentionality, having intentionality and presence with taking care of yourself. And I think to bring it to overwhelm, whether we're talking about career or self or relationships, I'll just speak for myself and not try to otherize it that when I lose touch with my why, my goal, like, well, I'm so busy. What's the why? What is this busyness in pursuit of? And once that becomes clear, just like talking about a game or a craft or a project, it's once I understand and remember, remind myself why I'm doing it, then it helps level set the to do list in terms of understanding what needs to be prioritized. But I love that you also talked about the things that you can do to support your brain and body in this process in using the word intentionality. Because I do think that the noise and sort of the current and motion of life and the demands for our attention are so constant that I think into being intentional and really committing to that process, whatever it is necessary like it is the commitment you need to make to help support yourself through this. Because it doesn't just happen. Life doesn't stop to give you the space you need.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Right.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

So, yes, could we please step into the book that you've just most recently published, Step Away tools that you offer parents to give themselves to support them through that overwhelm.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Absolutely. Great question. The kind of foundational tool, the thing that I work with, I'd venture to say everybody on, is this technique that was developed by a physician in Boston in the 1970s, before mindfulness was a thing. But he developed this and built it. It's called the relaxation response and physician named Herbert Benson created this super simple technique and I've derived how I help people manage or modulate their stress response. What we do is we have folks come up with a word or a phrase that they find soothing in some way and they just breathe. And we have them do it five minutes in the morning, five minutes at the end of the day, bookending the day. Really easy and quick technique. So they can also use it at points during the day when they're feeling overwhelmed, maybe they're entering a meeting that's stressful, they've got a game coming up. Extremely useful or effective with some of the younger athletes that I work with who are stressed out about a game or something along those lines, but really want folks to start to internalize what it feels like to be modulated in the moment. Because if we're starting the day in terms of our escalation and our stress response up here and then a stressor hits, boom, we shut down probably right? And then we're not doing much of anything. So really want to help folks internalize what it feels like to be modulated and how to get there.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I've talked about mindfulness and meditation on this podcast many times. So for unless there's a new listener, this is a well worn path for us. But I love looking at it from a fresh perspective and something that I love that you positioned it in a different way than I've ever talked about it before. But it was just a great reminder that if we don't know the why, it's like we hear about all the things that are good for us to do, but if we're not connected with why we're doing it or why it would be helpful to try to participate in it. The benefit of mindfulness and practicing at the beginning of the day and the end of the day is so that you can become more present in life. I think it was Rick Rubin. I saw him in an interview recently where he was talking about meditation. And the reason he meditates is not for the 20 minutes or 30 minutes of sitting in a quiet space to start the day, but so that he can bring that presence into his day, which allows him for his pursuit, his goal, his why is accessing creativity and living a creative life. You're talking about a mindfulness practice so that you can level set your nervous system in moments where you're going to feel really stimulated and activated, like in a sporting event or for athletes going into a game. But this could also be for parents with small kids like myself.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Exactly. Yes, yes.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

I think of myself back in the day with my little guys. And at that time my husband was traveling for work like six days a week and around a bunch. And so we found ourselves in this new town and the boys were barely one and it was a lot, right? And this was the point where I really recognized, okay, wait. Because I thought this was going to be easy, you know, this parenting thing. And I was going to be able to have a career and my life as an athlete and my kids, my awesome kids. And figured out pretty quickly that wasn't true. And it was true. But I had to like intentionally create a foundation of well being around what we were going to do. So definitely integrated this technique back then. And also for me, movement's very important. I was working very part time back then. And then I would put the boys in their double Bob stroller and we would drive to this really awesome little town on the, on the water about 15 minutes away. We'd spend the day there walking around in the Bob and you know, we hung out in the bookstore and the coffee shop and we, everyone knew us in town. There they are and they're Bob. I'd bring them into Starbucks. Teeny tiny little problem in terms of well being there was that I was drinking too many Starbucks mochas. But uh huh, can't, he can't have it all.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I guess I'll call out my own little tease for a don't cut your own bang moment. My relationship with caffeine definitely changes when the story I'm telling myself is I have too much to do and not a time to do it. Then my impulse is to reach for caffeine because I think it's going to be like the Energizer Bunny, but it just makes the crash harder at the end of the day. God, I can relate to that so much. And it sounds like one of the pillars or components from your work is that finding community. You were in a new town, you had two small kids and so you got out and outside, right. And began connecting with people and people began to know who you were.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Right. And it was a really good way. It was a great way for us to connect with folks. Mom's groups. I tried to do that as well too. But the problem with that was the meetings were generally at someone's house. So I had my two little guys, right? And I was always like a little bit, how am I going to do this? Right? Carrying both the little, little seat basket things into the house right as they were getting a little bit heavier and heavier. I couldn't leave one of them while I carried one of them in. And so we preferred to meet up with folks in town and do walks as opposed to go to those meetings. But we tried that as well. But yes, community was key. And I still have relationships with some of these folks. We've moved again, so we're now out on the west coast. And. But I still have. And it's so fun to see what's happening to the kids. When our boys were two months, these kids were five months, and they're going to college this year. It's just really fun to see that trajectory and have those moments of reconnection now. So I think that's something that also fuels me in the present. One thing to say here is connection is going to look different for all of us. And this is what I work with folks on as well. There's no one size fits all. And that goes back to context. Maybe it's joining a meetup for a hobby that you're really interested in, or maybe it's joining an online chat group about another topic that you're really interested in. Or maybe you do have the opportunity to get out and meet folks in person, or who knows, it's going to look different for all of us. Those are just the things that worked really well for me back in the day and still to a degree now.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Yeah. So we've talked about intentionality, community, moving our bodies, mindfulness. Something else I noted too, that I'd love for you to speak to is emotional intelligence. I'm paraphrasing something that I read from you, which was, we have to learn the skill within ourselves in order to be able to offer that skill to our little ones and our children. And so. And I love that idea that we can't give what we don't have. And so when you are working with clients, how do you identify gaps in emotional intelligence? And then how do you help move the clients into developing that?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, that's a really great question. And it all comes down to awareness and helping you in a authentic way, in an honest kind of way. Understanding how their way of being out in the world impacts those around them and vice versa. Right. And helping to discover that, uncover that through discussion. I listen carefully.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

When I set out to write a book, I only knew two things. One was I wanted to make big feelings feel less scary and more approachable. And I wanted to bring some lightness to the feelings themselves. What I know to be true as a therapist is that emotions are energy in motion. They have information to tell you to inform the next right step to take and self doubt, fear, anxiety. Live in that space between knowing and not knowing. The second thing I knew was that I wanted to have fun in the process of making this thing. The result is this Wrestling a Walrus for Little People with Big Feelings Beautifully illustrated children's book that has a glossary at the end for some of the bigger feeling words. What this story does in a light and loving way is create context for those relationships you can't change, those people that you wish would treat you different. The things in life that we cannot control and yet we face that are hard. This book. It's a conversation starter for any littles in your life who want to create more safety and love and patience for some of those experiences. So hop on over to the Show Notes. You can pick it [e-mail], barnesNoble.com or my website. I hope that you do because I believe in this little book. I freaking love this little book and I cannot wait to hear your experience with it. Thanks so much for listening. And back to the episode. If you've ever wanted to start a journaling practice but didn't know where to start, or if you've been journaling off and on your whole life but you're like, I want to take this work deeper. I've got you covered. I've written a journal called A Journal for Unearthing you. It's broken down into seven key areas of your life, filled with stories, sentence stems, prompts, questions and exercises, all rooted in the work that I do with actual clients in my therapy sessions. I have given these examples to clients and sessions as homework, and they come back with insights that allow us to do such incredible work. This is something you can do in the privacy of your own home, whether you're in therapy or not. It has context, it has guides, and hopefully some safety bumpers to help digging a little deeper feel possible, accessible and safe. You don't have to do this alone. And there's also a guided treasured meditation series that accompanies each section in the journal to help ease you into the processing state. So my hope is to help guide you into dealing more secure secure with the most important relationship in your life, the one between you and you. Hop on over to the Show Notes and grab your copy today. And now back to the episode. We got to work within the context that we have. This is our context today. So Kate, tell me a little bit more about how you help clients, how you help them develop their relationship with emotional intelligence and see their own gaps.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Right? Yeah. And so you know what, usually this can come through in discussion, conversation, me listening very carefully, pointing out instances where maybe something could be shifted there to make it feel better or make it more effective in terms of what you're trying to communicate. So there's that perhaps there's role playing really in awareness and helping folks to build that awareness through those real time conversations, perhaps through journaling experiences. Journaling reactions, responses to experiences that they've had in the world, and then processing through those is really the way that we go about it and seems to be quite effective.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I love that you brought up journaling. Journaling is one of my all time favorite tools. I remember I handed out journals for gifts for people long before I worked in the capacity that I do now. And so again, you're offering similarly to a different way to apply mindfulness. Can you give me an example of a specific exercise or prompt that you would give someone to do with journaling? Because what I've actually self published a journal. It's guided, it has prompts and things like that. Because people will take me at my word and say, okay, yeah, sure, I'll try journaling. And then they come back later and they're like, that one's this. Other than Dear Diary, this is what I did today, which honestly, I think there's still some merit in just documenting your day too, but particularly with overwhelm, because I think we underestimate what we actually accomplish in a day and we over index what we could accomplish in a day. But what's an example of prompts that you've worked with people on when they're trying to cultivate emotional intelligence?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Right. One of my favorite prompts is very simple really. It's the daily wins exercise. What are three to five things that went well on a given day and why and kind of processing through those. And what are three to five things to see the other side of that, where you wish it had gone differently. Right. And that you wish there was a different outcome. Jot those down and then pick one on each side to expand on. And that serves as a really useful foundation to glean awarenesses and insights about what's really happening for us day to day. And the cool thing is also that the winds part, it neutralizes our lens and doesn't keep us stuck in that negative loop. So yeah, so that's one of the, my favorite prompts that I use with folks just to help them build that sense of what's happening in real time. And how am I feeling about it?

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

And there's always more happening in a day than the worst thing that happened in the day.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

It can help understand and become more aware of their thoughts, feelings, behaviors, and how those are impacting not only themselves, but other people.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I love that too. And thinking about increasing your emotional IQ is thinking about how the world is impacting you and how you are potentially impacting the world.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Right.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I love that. I love that I given all of the different aspects, like all the different spokes on the wheel of your career and your level of output and the things that you're creating and putting out into the world, I am specifically curious about how you manage your energy and your output. Like how you decide what to say yes to, what you're putting energy into pursuing versus when you know you need to go to the beach and walk the stroller around. How do you make those decisions?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, that is such a great question. And it's a work in process. It's one that really comes down to is saying yes to this thing going to detract from my overall sense of well being. And there's an intentionality in thinking that through. Right. Because to be honest, at the end of the day, I'd love to say yes to everything I've learned over time. That's a very bad idea. And it's been through lessons of being on the edge of burnout or maxing out what I have to offer that I've had to really reel it back in and be like, okay, what is the why? Where do you really want to put your energy and create creative energy moving forward? So that's the big picture. How do I do it moment to moment? I really am intentional about my own mindfulness. Try to practice that very regularly every day. Every morning when I wake up, the peloton is huge for me these days. I'm always on the peloton in the morning. Physical movement, exercise, activity, very important for me to help me modulate and help me create that clear lens so that I can be intentional and make the choices that are going to help me foster as opposed to take away from my well being. But it is, I will say, work in process. And I'm making some tweaks moving into the new year in terms of what that's going to look like. Because to be honest with you, I think this past year I took on too much.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Yes. That sometimes the, the receipt and the gift of hindsight is, oh man, okay, I see what I could have done a little differently there. One of the ways that I've been trying to, again, definitely work in process, work in progress is think about my time in terms of what fuels me and then what requires more energy. So an hour spent preparing and maybe delivering a presentation, I know the energetic output is going to the toll it takes. And the energy required from me will stretch almost like a bell curve. It'll stretch beyond the hour itself that I've committed myself to, versus every time I do a podcast like this, it energizes me like I'm gonna have a beneficial return on my energy for at least an hour and a half, two hours after this, where I'm just gonna feel zippy. My outlook's gonna be more positive because this fuels me. Thinking of it's not just the calendar hour or the block of time, but the energetic output or imp with how that time is spent. And it's the same with social engagements. There are friends that energize me, and then there are some relationships that just require a little bit more. So that's one of the ways I'm trying to do it. But I like that you keep going back to this language of intentionality, because I would say that I am definitely in a season of overwhelm in my own life. I'm right on that cusp of burnout, and I am more aware than I've ever been because I've been around this merry go round more than once. I can feel. It's like I can smell it in the air, like someone's burning a fire, Burning some leaves. I can smell it. But I'm not on fire yet. But you. Every time you bring up the word intentionality, it's such a. I can feel myself calm down every time you say it. And I think it's because what I'm recognizing is when I feel overwhelmed, I. I feel like I'm in a boat without oars and the water's choppy. I've just lost that clarity of intentionality. When I'm with my son. He's out of school for two days, and that may not be within that frame of reference. That may not be the day to accomplish every financial and professional goal. That focus, that intentionality made. If I allowed that to just be that for that period of time, I'm probably gonna feel a little bit more at peace. I'm processing out loud. That's okay. That's what I like doing here on the show. But. But I'm so appreciative of that language and that reminder of where does my presence and what does my intention need to be in this moment.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Yeah, absolutely. And easier said than done. But make a really good point in that on the day when your son is out of school and you might not get to everything on your business and financial to do list, and that's okay. But given that we're both probably doers wanting to get done, it's that moment of really taking that step back and recognizing, no, no, no, that's okay, and it'll happen. But today is the day that I'm gonna use that extra time to hang out with my son.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

What I would encourage anybody listening. Hop on over to the show Notes. All of Kate's links, the links to her new book Step Away that we've been referencing, as well as her website that has clips of talks and presentations she's given. The language and the look of your website was simple and clear. And I've appreciated in our conversation, the reinforcing of this is a simple, clear message. And you're not saying that it's easy in practice. It's simple. It's simple in the method, but maybe not always easy in the moment. But it's a reminder I definitely needed. And, Kate, we're getting to the point in the conversation where I would love to ask you, what is your don't cut your own bang moment?

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Such a great question. I've given this a bit of thought, but the thing is, it really fits within the context of our conversation. Right? Because the intentionality, all of the things that I work with folks on putting into practice and work to put into practice myself, it doesn't always go according to plan. And sometimes there are those moments where, well, maybe more than sometimes, I do bump up against that cusp of overwhelm, or I've taken on too much or what have you, and it impacts my output in various ways. And sometimes we know why that is, sometimes we don't. But a recent example, I've been doing a lot of podcasting, and I had a couple of opportunities recently to do some TV spots. And I've done these in the past. And I prepared and everything was okay. But one of them, well, I'm not quite sure what happened.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Got this. I'm prepared. I really did prepare. I have my notes, the whole thing. First question, out of the gate, I'm like, off the rails. I'm rambling. I really had trouble getting to my point. It was not impressive. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, stop talking. Stop talking now. Shift gears. It's good. Didn't stop talking. I'm not sure then I'll tell you what happened, but it was not one of my better moments. It happens, right? I guess. I. I don't know. So I think that was. If I take a step back and reflect a moment to say, okay, wait, you need to maybe slow down a little bit, take a little bit more space, be even more intentional to make sure that you're buttoned up, dialed in in these types of important moments. Maybe that was the learning.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Yes. So this example sounds like it was very recent. And there's actually. There's a phrase, and I hope I'm getting it right, but there's a phrase for Broadway performers and live stage performers. I think it's called the White Room. Because a lot of anybody who maybe doesn't know about live theater performers, particularly Broadway performers, There's usually between six and 12 weeks of rehearsal and preparation, and then it's usually eight shows a week, and sometimes on the weekends, two shows a day. And so you could imagine once that performance, and everything is like, in your bones, you've got it down, you're prepared. But there is this phenomena, and it's not on show one or even show two, but it's almost when it's in that. Somewhere in that middle space between, you know it like the back of your hand, but you know it so well that your mind can maybe do something else. And somewhere in that gap, you just drop into this white room where you forget everything. You don't know your name, you don't know where you are, you don't know your mark, you don't know. And it's just. It's. It is a petrifying experience. And I. Oh, God, I remember I was the lead in a play. I was a theater major in my undergrad, and I was the lead in a play. And there was a long pause, and I didn't realize that my scene partner was trying to milk a moment, like an emotional moment. And I thought they needed me to up the line for them, just to help them find their place. And what I ended up doing was skipping, like, four pages of dialogue. And it was. Everyone backstage, it was like, whatever. And I don't embarrass too easily. I think that's one of the benefits of having a. Again, you have the experience as an athlete. I have a background as a performer. When you fall on your face, literally or metaphorically enough times in front of groups of people, you realize, oh, okay, I'm going to live. It's going to be fine. But that moment, there are still times where if I let myself sit in that memory. It. I will just start to sweat. It was bad. It was bad, bad, bad. And so sometimes it happens. And maybe the lesson is to be nice to yourself and just remember that it happens. You know, have a look. Yes.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

And that I think might really be the thing. Like, I did my best. Hopefully there'll be other opportunities and. But definitely a learning moment. Or a moment, I guess we'll call it, right?

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I mean, like, truly, like, is it good or bad? I don't know. It was and it happened. Oh, gosh. But that is so relatable. Someone passes you the mic and you're just like, well, my mouth is moving. I wonder what I'm saying. Yes.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Oh, my God.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

I mean, but who hasn't had a moment like that at a dinner party or. Yeah. Gosh, Kate, thank you. Thank you for sharing that moment that humanizes. You're an accomplished author, TED talk speaker, course leader, athlete, PhD. And to know that even you had a moment where it didn't go quite the way you planned, but you came out on the other side, that's more than anything. That's the thing I love about that question. So thank you for going there with me and this was lovely spending this hour with you. I really appreciate your time and your insight, and I can't wait for everyone to get to hear it.

[Dr. Kate Lund]

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for having me.

[Podcast Host (possibly Danielle Ireland)]

Thank you for spending this time with me. Your time, care, and attention mean more to me than you know. It's the greatest gift you can offer, and I want to help this podcast reach as many people as possible. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast. It helps it grow. The feedback will make me better. And make sure to hop over to the Show Notes too, so you can connect with all of Dr. Cait Lund's links, as well as links to my children's book, Wrestling a Walrus, and my journal, the Treasure Journal. All of those resources are linked for you there, and I hope that you continue to have an incredible day.

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