If You've Been Feeling Overwhelmed, This Will Help You Feel Less Alone

Summary

Don't Cut Your Own Bangs with Danielle Ireland
Episode: If You’ve Been Feeling Overwhelmed, This Will Help You Feel Less Alone
Air Date: March 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartening episode, therapist and author Danielle Ireland welcomes Sarah Harker, Chief Growth Officer of City Moms, for a candid, joy-filled conversation about motherhood, burnout, workplace transitions, and the power of genuine connection. The episode explores how relationships and curiosity can lead to unexpected new chapters, recounts City Moms' growth from a local group to a national community, and offers practical (and deeply honest) advice for anyone feeling overwhelmed or isolated.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Serendipitous Connection

[00:00–08:00]

• Sarah recounts meeting City Moms founder Janine Bodmeier at a dinner party, bonding over wearing the same Anthropologie dress.
  • "Anytime I think that someone is too busy, God's laughing...it ends up being like a deep relationship going forward in my life. Of course, they need you in their life." (Sarah, 07:48)
• The duo discuss the myth of the 'highlight reel'—how people we admire often feel just as isolated or vulnerable as we do.

2. The Vulnerability and Courage in Career Transitions

[10:11–19:29]

• Sarah describes her decade-long nursing career—especially the shift from enjoying patient care to realizing her true joy was in supporting her colleagues.
• The relentless pace and admin creep in healthcare made her question whether it was "still right" for her.
  • “Nobody goes into medicine or nursing to check the box. Like, you have to have at least a heart.” (Sarah, 13:35)
• She credits her mom's example in nursing administration as "Sherry’s school of hard knocks" for leadership wisdom.
• Discusses how seeing a coach, prompted by curiosity and exhaustion, was pivotal: "I felt like I had never really met anyone that did that… I didn't ever really explore that part [risk-taking] until after I met Erin." (Sarah on Erin Bridgman, 19:19)

3. Origins and Expansion of City Moms

[21:25–29:07]

• Sarah originally didn’t seek community: “I remember saying, ‘I don't need any more friends. I've got enough, and I'm good.’" (21:32)
• City Moms described as a national lifestyle media company—broadcast, editorial, and social media—helping brands reach moms across 14+ markets.
• The primary challenge they address? Overwhelm and decision fatigue:
  • “Anything we can do to help share the weight of that mental load. And I think there’s just a me too of we’re in this together.” (Sarah, 25:28)
• Their vibe: authentic, comforting, zero pretension. Danielle observes, “City Moms feels like the counter to that [endless optimization]." (26:36)

4. What Makes City Moms Different

[27:07–30:49]

• Danielle and Sarah highlight City Moms’ accessible, community-first approach and their standout work in media and partnerships.
• The ‘cooler older sister’ metaphor:
  • “City Mom is really the cooler older sister of your best friend... always reaching out to the next wave of moms.” (Sarah quoting Janine, 29:02)

5. On Strengths, Connection, and Abundance

[29:44–33:49]

• Sarah claims her superpowers are fun, risk-taking, and—crucially—connection:
  • “I am just a natural connector. I think that's my favorite thing in the world is connecting other women to each other… Also, I'm not really afraid of much.” (29:44)
• They discuss the abundance mindset and supporting other women, launching a local business collaboration (“The Local Edit”) to circulate support and elevate small brands.

6. Growth, Delegation, and Mental Load in Motherhood

[37:40–44:42]

• Growth is exciting, but “you don't have to grow alone” is the central message.
• Delegation and support systems: referencing the book Who Not How and the Fair Play card deck as must-have tools for partnership.
  • “The big thing… is, yeah, you can have the really big ideas… but we've got a great team with project management.” (Sarah, 38:58)
• On mental load: Sarah and Danielle share practical strategies for redistributing household and emotional labor:
  • “Literally circle what doesn't have to be you or what do you hate doing, what's not filling you up and what's draining you. It's taking from your capacity in other areas.” (41:51)
• Danielle’s personal story about vacation prep mental load highlights the importance of explicit communication and recurring check-ins.

7. True ‘Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs’ Moments

[45:16–46:43]

• Sarah shares her “Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs” moment: launching a business to help nurses reduce burnout—only to discover her clients actually needed to leave healthcare for their own wellbeing.
  • “My don’t cut my own bangs moment was definitely thinking, ‘Oh, I’ve got this figured out!’ …Nope, this is a huge issue and many other facets.” (Sarah, 45:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Outreach and Friendship:
  • “What you want or what you seek is also seeking you.”
    —Danielle, [08:00]
• On Burnout & Self-Care:
  • “What do I do with that [mental health day] besides, like, spiral and feel like I'm failing?”
    —Danielle, [16:28]
• On Women Taking Risks:
  • “In my brain, growing up, it was like, you go to college, and you get a job that's connected to a paycheck… There was no one in my life that was a risk taker.”
    —Sarah, [19:15]
• On Supporting Each Other:
  • “I'm a firm believer that there's plenty of room for everybody.”
    —Sarah, [32:56]
• On Growth and Teamwork:
  • “You don't have to grow alone… That’s such a lie, especially for women and moms, of ‘I just have to work a little harder.’”
    —Sarah, [39:29]
• On Partnership at Home:
  • “This is not the tool to break up a fight…The point is partnership.”
    —Sarah, discussing the Fair Play deck, [44:53]
• On Reframing Perfection:
  • “Who can we help mentor into that space and make it real, not this striving for perfection, but just be real together?”
    —Sarah, [29:07]
• On Starting Something New:
  • “If Lizzo said, ‘But Beyonce already exists’… Imagine. We would be missing so much.”
    —Sarah, [35:55]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–08:00 — Meeting Janine & Overcoming Assumptions of Busyness
• 10:11–19:29 — Nursing Burnout and the Leap into Coaching/Entrepreneurship
• 21:25–23:11 — City Moms: Origin, Audience, and Mission
• 24:44–26:36 — How City Moms Supports Moms (Mental Load, Overwhelm)
• 29:44–33:49 — Natural Strengths, Connecting Women, and The Local Edit
• 37:40–39:12 — The Realities of Growth and Building a Support System
• 41:13–44:42 — Mental Load, Delegation, and the Fair Play Approach
• 45:16–46:43 — Sarah’s “Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs” Moment

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Tone & Final Takeaways

This episode strikes a cozy, authentic, and gently humorous note, balancing honest explorations of vulnerability and ambition with actionable wisdom. Danielle and Sarah’s conversational rapport feels like a meaningful chat with a therapist-friend—warm, reassuring, and deeply relatable.

Key Takeaway:
You don’t have to figure everything out alone. Building friendships, delegating emotional labor, and seeking community are not just helpful—they’re necessary steps toward sustainable growth and joy.

Resources Mentioned:

• Fair Play Card Deck
• Who Not How (book)
• City Moms (website)

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→ For listeners feeling overwhelmed, isolated, or in transition: this episode is a heartfelt affirmation that what you seek is, indeed, also seeking you—and it’s okay to reach out for help and connection.

Transcript

[A]

I remember seeing Janine and thinking, wow, I just really like to get to know her, but I don't want to bother her because she probably has people coming up to her all the time like that want something. And so I just said hi and appreciated that she liked to dress. And then I remember at the dinner we were going around talking, it was all new entrepreneurs or small businesses at least, and there was just this general theme of isolation. And I remember Janine said something and I thought, oh my God, I can't believe she felt like that ever, because you just see this highlight reel. And I just thought, I really need to reach out to her after this because that's been a constant theme in my life now ever since meeting Janine. Of I'll meet these people and think, oh, they're probably like really busy. And then anytime I think that it's like God laughing. And it ends up being like a deep relationship going forward in my life. Of, of course they need you in their life.

[B]

Hello, hello and welcome back to don't cut your own bangs. I'm Danielle Ire, a therapist that wants to help you turn emotions into allies, not obstacles. And today's guest is someone whose story starts in a place that will probably feel very familiar to a lot of us. That quiet moment when something in your life isn't exactly wrong, but it's also not right anymore. Meet Sarah Harker, the chief growth officer from City Moms, a national community that connects moms with resources, brands, and each other in a way that makes life feel just a little bit easier and a lot less lonely. What I love about today's story with Sarah is that none of this started with a grand master plan. She spent 10 years working as a nurse and a nursing administrator in the cardiac department of healthcare, mentoring teams, supporting people in high stakes environments. And over time, she began to notice something interesting happening and found herself becoming more invested in the well being of the people she was leading. Not because she wanted to leave healthcare, but because she started asking herself a different question. If this isn't exactly it, what might be? That curiosity eventually led her to explore the world of entrepreneurship and ultimately to a dinner with a coach where she happened to bump into someone you might recognize from the podcast, City Mom's founder, Janine Bodmeier. As the story goes, they bonded over the same anthropology dress. It was a total meet cute. And they shared a belief that women supporting women can build something bigger that either one of them could alone. What followed was a partnership that helped grow City Moms from A community rooted in Indianapolis to a platform connecting moms all over the country. Sarah talks about being a connector, someone who isn't afraid to take a leap, to take a risk, and to build relationships that expand what's possible. And what I love about this conversation with Sarah is that underneath all of the growth and leadership is something really simple. A belief that motherhood wasn't meant to be done alone. Sarah describes a city mom as kind of like your best friend's older sister, maybe five years ahead of you, who already knows where all the cool stuff is, where it's happening, and is happy to show you the way. It's mentorship, community, and generosity wrapped into one. And just to give you a little preview of the energy of this conversation, about 15 minutes in, we actually had to pause the interview because Sarah got a call from her son's school, and right before we wrapped up, she had to let people into her meeting room to set up for another broadcast interview that was gonna be happening in just a couple of minutes. She's a mover. She's a shake. She's a connector. She's a mom. And I'm really excited for you to get to hear this conversation. So let's dive in, sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Sarah Harker. Well, Sarah Harker, welcome. Welcome to don't cut your own bangs. This has been a long time coming, but I'm so grateful that we're finally here doing this.

[A]

Yeah, I am, too. And also, I'm like, I have my bangs for you today, but I don't pet on my own you.

[B]

That is. That is. That is the key. It's like, not. Don't have bangs. Because I've had a few people message me, like, hey, girl, why are you hating on bangs? No, I love bangs. It's just like, don't do it alone. Maybe go to a professional. You just.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But they look great, by the way. Every time I see someone with bangs, you have. And your glasses, you have what I'm calling, like, an Anne Hathaway devil wears moment.

[A]

Go on.

[B]

Well, because, like, she. It's. I love how they, like the trope of, like, oh, she was wearing glasses and had bangs. But it's like the inverse Anne Hathaway and Devil wears Prada. She would, like, got very stylish glasses and really good bangs, and Stanley Tucci made her over. And then, like, she was super chic, and I just. I love.

[A]

I never even thought of that, but I love her. Stanley Tucci, Yes.

[B]

That'll be like, A sub episode, movies we like and things we should watch. Which honestly, that would be a fun episode to do too. Well, I'm so glad you're here. And just to add a little context and background, so I bumped into you and your business partner, Janine, like not quite a year ago, but almost a year ago.

[A]

It's been a minute.

[B]

Yeah. In Patichou. And it seems to. And since then, we bumped into one another, I think in the same place, same context, maybe three other times. And so now here we are. The thing I want to start with. And you may, you may find this a little silly, but a moment that is a standout for me. In the conversation I had with Ginny and Bob Meyer, founder of City Moms, you bonded over an anthropology dress.

[A]

Oh my goodness, that's such a, like, testament to our current relationship still. Yes, like, but I think we love.

[B]

I wanna, I, I want you to tell me a little bit more about your perspective of that story because I think though, as women, that may sound like. Because we could talk about like your business and your company and we will, and all of those big important, like, splashy, fun, headline things. But to. What I love about this community and this podcast is to really get granular, to speak to someone who, who feels lonely and isolated and wants to make a connection or is at the beginning of starting an idea and has no idea how they're going to get it off the ground. And what I love about the origin of your story, it feels so tender and it feels so real. Just like going into a lunchroom and not knowing where to sit when you're in middle school.

[A]

Like, oh my gosh, very much like that.

[B]

You have. So please tell me about the anthropology dress.

[A]

Yeah, okay. Well, first I'm. You'll figure this out very quickly. Janine is the detail oriented person of the company here.

[B]

Everyone needs one. Everyone needs one.

[A]

We work so well together because we're so different. I think in a lot of ways too. And then we share a brain in some ways too. But I think I'm trying to remember if it was my outfit or hers that we started talking over.

[B]

It was yours. So you walked in wearing a dress and she's like, oh my gosh, I have the same rumper.

[A]

It was like a one piece, like emerald green. Yes. And that thing was beautiful. I wish I fell and snagged it like on something and sadly don't have it anymore. But yes, it was fabulous. Maybe I'll send you a picture for context. But yeah, we were at a mutual friend's house for this big dinner party that she throws that is just like out of a movie and so neat. And it was one of the first things I went to as I was a nurse for a decade and was considering starting my own business. And we were working with the same coach and went to this dinner party. And I remember seeing Janine and thinking, oh, I just really like to get to know her, but I don't want to bother her because she probably has people coming up to her all the time like that, want something. And so I just said hi and appreciated that she liked to dress. And then I remember at the dinner, we were going around talking, it was all new entrepreneurs or small businesses at least. And there was just this general theme of isolation. And I remember Janine said something, and I thought, oh, my God, I can't believe she felt like that ever, because you just see this highlight reel on Instagram. And I just thought, I really need to reach out to her after this. Because that's been a kind of a constant theme in my life now ever since meeting Janine. Of I'll meet these people and think, oh, they're probably, like, really busy. And then anytime I think that it's like God laughing, and it ends up being, like, a deep relationship going forward in my life. Of. Of course they need you in their life. Yeah.

[B]

I love that. Anytime I think that someone is too busy, God's laughing. It makes me think about. I'm paraphrasing a quote that sort of like, lives in the zeitgeist, but what you want or what you seek is also seeking you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The things that you're attracted to or the things that you're drawn to. There's that magnetic pull that's, like, intangible. But specifically that language of I don't want to bother.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That I can. Oh, I can resonate so deeply with that.

[A]

Yeah. And it's not like a bad. I wasn't thinking, oh, who would want to hang out with me? Or something, like, in a mean way. I just thought, oh, I bet people are approaching them all the time. And that would be, like, frustrating for them. And I wouldn't want someone thinking I'm, like, trying to talk to them to get something, basically.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anyway, after that dinner, I just remember thinking, oh, that's so interesting. I never would have thought that about her. And then what was really funny is that was I had said at that dinner, I'm gonna put in my notice. And I'm, like, doing the thing. I'm jumping and of anybody in my family that is really into business. My dad's a doctor, but that's a little different owning your business. There's not like any just entrepreneurs really, in my family. And what's funny is Janine put down the date that I said I was resigning, and she texted me and said, did you do it? And she told me when she was leaving, she was like, I'm gonna text you. And I just thought, oh, that's cute. Remember? And she reached out to me. She was the only person who texted me on that day. And there were a lot of people there. And so then we. From then on out, we're inseparable. And I was her plus one to all of the things. So that. This is crazy, but that was eight years ago now. And I've been a part of City Moms for since then. And I was part of it before I met her. Just on the sidelines, but. Right. We really grew into sort of a business friendship of comparing notes on how things are, working with different things for both of us. I slowly stepped in with being part of the content team since I was their plus one. So I was always taking pictures for them. Last April, had the opportunity to come on as an owner, and so it's. I can't believe next month is April. It's like we haven't stopped to catch our breath just yet.

[B]

Yeah. Time is so. It gets like stretch and warped and bend. It just feels so fluid and crazy. And then. And we're also recording the first Monday after daylight savings. I just want to put that out into whenever.

[A]

How I'm sure.

[B]

Well, a week and a half or two weeks later after this is recorded, hopefully we'll all be adjusted. But yeah. Yeah. Just time. Time.

[A]

Yes, I know. I got up this morning and I thought, why am I so tired? I get up at the same time every day. And then it dawned on me when I walked outside, and it's pitch. What is really does get you. Yeah.

[B]

We just reset that clock and then just kept plucking forward. Yeah. Yeah. Just an extra couple cups of coffee later, but. So I want to. I'd love to go back, if you don't mind. Something really peaked for me when you talked about we saw the same coach. So you were practicing as a nurse for how many years? You said eight years.

[A]

10 years.

[B]

10 years. Oh, that's great. So 10 years working as a nurse. Can you bring me back when you were working as a nurse and what type of nurse were you?

[A]

Cardiac.

[B]

Whoa. Okay. So hard stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, have you ever Okay, I wanna. Sorry, I had a whole squirrel tangent about.

[A]

We're gonna have so many squirrel moments.

[B]

So many squirrel moments. Okay. Have you seen the Pit? Have you held a heart in your hand?

[A]

Like, what? Oh, my God. I tried to watch it with my parents when I was there. My mom's also a nurse, and she started out in cardiac, and she just retired not that long ago after 42 years in nursing. I can't do it. I'm just. I don't know if it's, like, trauma or something, but I just can't even. It's not relaxing for me to do that. If I'm watching, I want to, like, laugh.

[B]

Well, one. The show was not relaxing, period. It's just. No, I. I'm the same way with therapy. That show. That Harrison Ford, my favorite. I know. And I know the show is not specifically a. It's not like the pit for therapy. It is a little different. But there's also a couple of reality shows that feature therapists, and I can't unwind. Thank you for the work that you did as a nurse, by the way. I truly. My life was forever changed from the kindness of a nurse in an emergency when I had a miscarriage. Like, she held my hand, literally and metaphorically. I was just held with such care and grace by that woman. And it's always just. I'm always so appreciative of people who choose that line of work. It's so special. So you're working as a nurse. When during that run did you start to think, huh, I want to see a coach? And what led you there?

[A]

That's a great question. I think I was getting to the point. I remember thinking to myself, I like taking care of my co workers more than my patients. The last straw is when I had that moment. So I'm old enough that I worked when there were really safe ratios. Like, when I started in nursing, you were only allowed to have three patients on the unit I was on, and now they take five to six on that unit. And at that time, when I was at that hospital, there would be things that would come up that I would be able to help people because I had the time to talk to them a lot more. And each year, it felt like it just kept getting more of check off the list. You're doing things for administration, you're doing things for insurance. And I really remember thinking, I feel like I'm going to hurt somebody because I'm rushing so much and having to meet these things. And it's just not what I signed up for. Nobody goes into medicine or nursing to. To or therapy. Check the box. Like, you have to have at least a heart.

[B]

So that's very fitting considering the type like the nursing department and too. That makes sense. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I just, I had a couple of instances or that they were just like really disrespectful interactions too with other people. Certain people in certain roles are allowed to speak however they want to people. And I was. I'm just not a person that really sits by very well with that. And so I just thought this is not going to be very long. And I went through a period where I was like, okay, well then leadership is where it's at because I just kept getting put in charge of things and. But there's no extra money. Tries. You work really hard, so here's double the stuff to do. And by the way, you're going to train everybody. And by the way, will you be on this committee? And I went really far into that for a while, but I. I really wanted to be present for my kids. The last role that I was in, in nursing, the last thing I did was round for cardiologists. And so I would be there from five until five because I had to be there first to fig. I say that I was like chaos control or air traffic controller because I'd have to know which doctors they're on, who does what specialty with different testing and different types of procedures, and then know where they're going to be so I can grab them if an emergency came in. And I loved it. That kind of helped me figure out too of I'm not made to be like, doing the same thing every day. And I'm really not made to have someone looking over my shoulder all the time. And so I think I was feeling that. But the big pull was that I was like, okay, when I'm trying to get myself into something that I don't want to do, I have to find something positive out of it. So I would. This is so silly and I probably annoyed so many people with this thinking back on it now, but I would write out a positive quote and then keep it to our Pyxis machine for the day for like, the girls that I knew I was working with, depending on what they were going through. And some of them would be like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. And they'd put it in their card or, or in their pocket or something and keep it. But I just really loved that. And I was like, let me watch your patients. You can go eat Let me. So I was really focused on helping my team. And I just have always really loved doing things like that. And I think my mom was, like I said, in nursing administration for years. And I think I saw a lot from her on the other side as a kid because she worked a lot. And so she was on two cell phones and I would hear her dealing with the surgeons and the nurses at the same time. And so I always say I had Sherry's school of leadership of hard knocks first. So I think that was built in. But that at that point I thought, you know what? I think I can do something with this, with changing how people are handling their lives and to prevent burnout before it's happening. Because everyone I knew is burnout. And that was pre Covid. So, you know, well before it's part of their careers, most likely.

[B]

And also I think that language, I have seen the crescendo of that being talked about in a way that never like self care and burnout were talked about 10 years ago, but they weren't. They weren't really rooted in something that should be taken seriously. It was like, take a mental health day. Which.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What do I do with that besides, like, spiral and feel like I'm failing or.

[A]

Exactly. And sit and think of everything that needs done and I'll be there when you get back tomorrow.

[B]

Yes. Yes. Which leads to attention headache, which means you can't sleep, which means the next day you should be rested and you're not. But. So you were finding that you were enjoying taking care of your team more than your patients. So many things about what you said. I felt so deeply. I couldn't put positive quotes in enough places, I think, to feel safe enough to leap into something new. I think about the stages of change, like back to motivational interviewing, like the pre contemplative stage of change, where you're getting ready to be ready to be ready. And it's like, it's hard to even see that as the early stages, but I really believe that's using spring and maybe like gardening as a metaphor that's churning up the soil. You're getting the ground ready to plant some new ideas in. And I just loved everything you said because I saw myself in it, but can. So you were taking care of your team and you were feeling really called and you're like, I think I want to do something with this. But how did the coach enter in?

[A]

Okay, so this is a. This is a strange thing. So shout out to Erin Bridgman.

[B]

She's.

[A]

You might know Her. She was best friends with one of my cousins, and I followed her on social media for a while and I saw all the things that she was talking about. I never thought it was for me because I wasn't in business.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I don't know if you remember, but there used to be a company called Beauty Counter. I loved it. My cousins had a team with Beauty Counter, and they were like, very big. I loved it because it was all about lobbying for safer ingredients. And it scratched that itch with health care for me too. Of, you know, if we're not smoking, why are we putting all these things on our body that we know have harmful ingredients? But I. So I had always wanted to have a family business because I saw that them grow up with a family business. And so they were like, oh, why don't you do this with us? And I ended up doing that and really loving it and climbing to the, like, topper tier of leadership with that. And so I thought, well, maybe I'll talk to Aaron about what I could do with this. Maybe I can just move into that full time or take a break or something with my baby at the time. Then learned some really amazing tools and different things around leadership, around money and wealth and personal growth that I hadn't. She introduced me to Jen Sincero, who I'd never heard of until then, and all these really awesome, influential people that were very into taking risks. And at that point, I felt like I had never really met anyone that did that. Yeah. And I hadn't. In my brain, growing up, it was like, you go to college and you get a job that's connected to a paycheck. I remember hearing my parents talk about my friends that had, like, art degrees and that. It was almost like a joke. And. Yeah. And it's like they. There would always be this joke of like, what are you gonna do with that? Or whatever. And meanwhile, they're following their passion. And my parents don't think like that anymore. Or they were like concerned parents thinking, like, we gotta get this kid on our own feet. I just. There was no one in my life that was. I don't know what the opposite of risk averse is, but a risk taker, I guess. Yeah.

[B]

Like an early adopter or they, like, they just jump in. It's like they're always the first in line to get new technology. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And everyone around me is risk averse. And so I always felt a little funny because I knew I'm not anal retentive and I'm not type A. I Always knew that part, but I didn't ever really explore that part until after I met Aaron. That really changed a lot for me. And actually, there are probably five people that I met at that dinner that are still close friends of mine. She's just a magnet for good people.

[B]

I am endless. I'm just endlessly interested in and curious about and fascinated by what. What leads people to shift direction or change the path. And it always seems to start even though, like, the details are different or where it ends up taking you is different. That place of, I'm not satisfied with this. It's like, we have to experience the contrast enough to know, okay, well, it's not this, but knowing what it isn't doesn't automatically lead to its natural opposite. But that path of discovery of, okay, not this, but where am I feeling a little curious. I interviewed a guest a few weeks ago named Kat Greenleaf, and she used this language that I loved, which is, where's the water warm? So, like, where's that current? And my kids, of course, are obsessed with Moana right now. So, like, where's the wayfinding? Like, following the path. So you got curious about filling in these gaps, which led you to the coach, which led you to Janine, which let's. Okay, I wanna shift directions. It's. So when you look back at the breadcrumb trail, and you're like, how could that moment have possibly led me here? But yet it has. I just think that's so beautiful. But so City moms, I want to know a little bit of what was it like for you hearing about it for the first time? Did you find your way in because you needed community? Were you wanting to receive what it was offering? Initially, no.

[A]

I actually remember thinking, this is probably something people go through in their late 20s. But I remember saying, I don't need any more friends. I've got enough, and I'm good. You get burned enough. I think everyone in their late 20s is, like, burned with these breakups that you don't think about in friendships. Friends breakups are the worst.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just remember thinking, like, I have such great friends already and close to my husband. And I have. I'm the oldest of five, and I'm close with my husband's sister and his cousins. And so I just thought, I don't need anybody else, which is. Could be a don't cut your own bangs moment. So, yeah, no, that wasn't what I was looking for. I think when I first started following city moms, I was just looking for stuff to do in Indianapolis. And I knew that Janine always knows what's next and what's coming. And so I think that's why I originally started following.

[B]

Yeah. And so what would you say, like, for somebody who might be hearing about, I mean, and I'm not so much thinking about the Indianapolis community, but for listeners who are outside of the Indianapolis community? Because City Moms is expanding everywhere. One, it's beyond Indianapolis. And maybe if you listen to the episode with Janine, you might be aware of that too. But just in case anybody's listening and this is brand new to them, what would you want people to know about City Moms that are learning about it for the first time?

[A]

Sure. So we're a national lifestyle media company. And so what that means is we do a combination of broadcast nationally. I think we hit last week, officially 14 different markets across the US which is really exciting. And we love broadcasts, we love going on lifestyle segments. And so we do lifestyle media on broadcast. We do editorial, that's all SEO powered, and then also social media to help get brands in front of the decision makers, which are usually moms.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes. So what would you say is one of the biggest problems that City Moms is trying to help women and mothers solve? So for you, it was like stuff to do. Like, I've got these kids and they're like tearing my house apart going on in Brian.

[A]

Mine are just angels.

[B]

Oh, that's so sweet. I'm happy.

[A]

Three boys. Oh, no.

[B]

Also, when you said you were one of five, I'm an only child and you are. So when people say they're one of five, I'm like, are you okay?

[A]

Like, you know, that's a mess. That's a conversation for your couch.

[B]

If you've been listening to this podcast and you've thought to yourself, dang, I really want to do some deep diving. I want to ask myself some bold questions, but I don't know where to start or I'm ready, but I just need someone to help hold my hand through the process. I have a tool for you called the Treasure Journal. It is a seven part guided journal that is infused with and informed by my therapy practice. There are sentence stems so you never have to feel stuck looking at a blank page. You never have to wonder where to start. There are stories to help remind you that you're not alone in this process and to kick off some of the inspired creative thinking that really gets the healing process going. And also there's lots of blank space in the back if you think, okay, I loved answering this question, but I want to take it further. There's space for you to make that practice your own. You're welcome to visit the link in the show notes for the Treasure Journal and you can grab your copy today. Okay. Help me understand like what are the problems that you're helping moms solve?

[A]

Yeah, I. That's a really great question. I think probably the biggest thing would be just the overwhelm and the mental weight of everything that we do is such a. Oh, that's a whole other podcast on its own. Right. But I think getting filtering through the noise finding. We have a campaign that's coming up. It's one of our biggest campaigns that we do every year called Best New Baby. So something as simple as going finding what those best new products are and getting them in in front of you, doing the research ahead to show what are some of those best choices. Travel is another one that we do a lot of. We work really closely with tourism departments and so doing that work of going and finding the places and just selflessly eating all of the food for you and staying in the nice hotels.

[B]

So generous.

[A]

Sarah.

[B]

Yes. Okay.

[A]

Anything we can do to help to share the weight of that mental load. And I think there's just a me too of we're in this together. It's such a big thing every day almost. We start off our social media just by sharing a reel from another woman, another mom that's in the middle of it. Just sometimes it's laughing, sometimes it's sad and it's just reminding that we've got each other and that we're not doing this alone.

[B]

Well, one of the things I think City Moms does so well and I would just encourage and it's all linked in the show notes too. But I love that the whole feel of the City Moms page and you land on it. It's. You immediately get a sense of community. There's zero performative or pretension or. I just interviewed a woman named Ashlyn Thompson last Friday and she. She helped co found the Parent Empowerment Network and she has a podcast called Empowered by Hope. And she talked a lot about this idea of reclamation over reinvention and we'll like spiral with it's this sense that she has to treat her life like a project. She has to optimize always about improvement and getting more done or getting more fit. But City Moms feels like the counter to that.

[A]

That's such a nice compliment.

[B]

It is. It's just I feel like you're either learning something or you're feeling entertained and connected. When you want to feel uplifted. This is a good place to go.

[A]

Amazing. Thank you. Can I put that on our website?

[B]

Please do.

[A]

Please do.

[B]

Because I mean it. It's. It's so beautiful. But I want to know what, in your opinion, makes City Moms different than other communities like it? Because it completely stands alone, which is why I think it's going national, because you're filling. You're filling a gap.

[A]

Oh, that's a big question. Of course everyone's going to tell you that there's nobody like us. I think probably every person that you ask is going to say if they own a business. But I think a big area where we stand out is definitely broadcasts. We're just always excited to reach more moms and talk to more people.

[B]

I'll just say, too, maybe I'll answer my own question for you, which I promise this. I wasn't soft pitching myself to answer this question. I think you and Janine, you genuinely want to connect women with community, with resources. You want to help make their lives a little easier, shoulder some of that decision fatigue. One less decision to make, one less problem to solve, one less meal to figure out, and it just. That translates. That really translates. Because I'll just say there's a lot. There's so many experts, but I think what you guys, as much as we love a good expert, sometimes we just need a community. Yes. And you guys do that so well. But in the digital age.

[A]

Thank you, Carrie. I think we actually, we started a. Another platform this year for connecting with our City Moms, and we actually decided to close it because we realized everyone's connecting on social. And so I think we wanted it out there so it was more open, less barriers for other people. And that's always the goal. I think even with our. Some of the work that we've done this past year, we've started working with brands to help be a liaison between influencers and content creators. So especially in the parenting space. And that's been really another fun way to come alongside people with that weight of, oh, I don't know how to do this, and make that an easier flow for them as well. Yeah. But we're always just keeping our eyes out with that. I mean, Janine, I love that she uses this phrase, but she says City mom is really the cooler older sister of your best friend.

[B]

Yes. Like she's five years ahead of you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, totally.

[A]

That's fun to be that because we always want to be reaching out to this Next wave of moms. I don't want to say generation, because it's not necessarily a full generation gap, but it's. Who can we help mentor into that space? And again, just make it real and not there's this striving for perfection, but just be real together.

[B]

Yeah. I'm curious. So when you were describing just a few moments ago about, like, what you're not. I'm not type A and I'm not overly detail oriented, but you obviously, like, you were. You bought into the company and you were brought into the company because of what you do. Tell me, what is the. What do you bring?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's so funny. Yeah. Well, what a loaded question. You are such a good question asker. Like, you should do living or something. Well, of course I would love to say that I bring the fun because that's like the biggest thing. Anytime I'm introducing anybody, I'm like, well, they're fun. And Jennings and what else. Important things for me. Yes. And I am just a natural connector. I think that's my favorite thing in the world is connecting other women to each other. And so I think that's a big thing. I also am not really afraid of much. We were at something a couple weeks ago, and we saw somebody who's really well known in Indianapolis, and I was like, come on, let's go talk to him and Jeanne, stop. But they're right there. She's listening to me. I'm like, they're right here. Yeah. Let me go over there. That's always a fun part of our relationship because Janita has everything like. Like, it's set out. It's. There's a plan. And I am pretty strategic, too, but I'm more of a jump. And I think that's part of what is really great with the both of us is we support each other like that.

[B]

That's. I love that. That's beautiful. You are a connector. I have a, like, a good gut feeling about people, but I don't know if, like, my mind works in that way. Like, my husband is a connector. I would say some of the closest girlfriends I've had in the last 10 years have been introductions that made out in the world. He's almost, like handing out my card. You should call my wife. Yeah. Need a friend.

[A]

I love a supportive husband. Tell people whenever I'm meeting them for the first time or telling them I'm going to connect, I'm like, okay. I know some people say they're going to introduce you to people and Then it's just, oh, they mean well. Prepare to be bombarded in your inbox. I just hate that when somebody tells you like, oh, I want to introduce you to so. And then you don't want to be a pain in the butt asking for follow up with that. But there's so many great women too. So I get it makes me really excited to get to do things like that.

[B]

Okay. So that's your strength. You're a risk taker.

[A]

You go for it.

[B]

You're fun. And every someone, every someone's got to be in charge of the fun in the group.

[A]

I can do that.

[B]

I've got you cover there.

[A]

I am, yeah. And I think something funny, when I started that company, I was sort of like a foot out the door of nursing because it was still in healthcare. It was to serve people in healthcare. And. But I printed little badges that all the healthcare people work. I printed these that I would hand out when I was talking to different groups and it said a mantra on the back of it that said, I have the power to be influential and I stand tall in that today. And I felt like that was such a powerful thing to really, if you really stop and think about it. And I think that goes back to that meeting, Janine. The first time. It was something similar of. Rather than thinking what if you're responding to these situations not in a way of oh, I don't want to be a burden or whatever, but you think of it as the opposite of I have the ability to be influential and person might need you. And I think I, I put that into play since learning that lesson myself quite a bit because I'm a firm believer that there's plenty of room for everybody. And I know you hear people say that a lot. I've had people, I've heard people say that before and then they're not. They're the last person that would offer another seat at their table for somebody.

[B]

You can tell people who mean it from a place of abundance and people who say that from a place of scarcity. It's just. Yeah.

[A]

And I think Janine and I both very much believe in that and that's so important to us. We just launched a new program this year with city moms called the Local Edit and with five local women owned businesses to help support them in Indianapolis as we grow nationally. Indianapolis is so important to us. We want to keep people coming here for tourism and just working with them to help elevate their brands to a wider base too. So when we're going to places Like Kansas City or Dallas. We're taking their product with us as our gifts to people to help promote those brands and things. So that's, you know, we're always looking for an opportunity for how we can help pull up that next person. There were other people that opened the doors for us to a lot of things and we want to make sure that we're doing the same thing back. And it's not cute tagline. Right.

[B]

And I think believing in where you stand and believing in the value you offer it, bringing people up behind you, it's. It's doesn't feel threatening because you're like, well, I am uniquely positioned to do exactly what I'm doing. It actually reminded me a little bit of back. I didn't seek a coach in person 10 years ago, but I did join Marie Forleo. She created an online business called I love her. Yes. And when I was transitioning from a commercial actor ballroom dance teacher and this was pre joined. Yeah. I started working in commercials when I was 13. My biggest like claim to fame was I did a zombie commercial for the Walking Dead. But it was all for a lottery scratch off ticket. Well like I thought as got their finger and scratched it. So that was. That actually funded my grad program because.

[A]

Wait. So funny.

[B]

Yeah. That's how I paid for grad school. But yeah, so I, I lived a very feelings forward, like whatever felt right. But it always felt like I was fumbling and stumbling forward. I didn't have a. I was certainly not strategic. And all I knew through most of that process was not this. What is this? That whole transition. I tried on a bunch of different jobs to try to figure that out. And it was during that transition of kind of fumbling and failing forward that I thought maybe I'll try to work for myself somehow. And so that's when I joined B school. All of this to lead up to something she shared in that. That really spoke to well, there's already enough of those. I don't need to throw my hat in the ring. She was like, if you were to think of your favorite Italian restaurant and. But can you name five other Italian restaurants outside of your favorite. Of course you can. But like everyone who starts that restaurant says, well, no one knows my Nonna sauce the way I know my Nona sauce. It just there's. Does the world need another. I don't know. But I'm so glad my favorite exists.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. It's the same with getting over a fear. If there's a world need another Podcast. Do we need something else for moms? And I think the answer is, yeah. Hell, yeah, we do. Yeah, yeah, we do.

[A]

I heard another version of that before, and it was if Lizzo said, but Beyonce already exists.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

There's just some other pop artist and woman in this industry, and they don't need any other. Imagine. Have some of those anthems.

[B]

What would we be missing? We would be missing so much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm just curious, what was that moment of I think we need to think bigger?

[A]

Yeah. Well, that was before me. Even in Covid, I think is probably what Janine would tell you is the answer. She really saw a need for where things shifted online, and then we were seeing a big increase in where people are coming from. Last April, I came in as the Chief Growth officer to really push it. There's always a point in time in entrepreneurship when you've got to wear another hat, and it's nope. Now they're all toppling over. And there's we need the. I love that book who, not how. And I think that is probably the spot where we got to with that. And. But Janine built such an incredible foundation already for that through broadcast is really what pushed us out for different markets

[B]

on the Drew Barrymore show. I remember that happened during COVID Minor detail. Just. Just a little name drop. But yes.

[A]

And I was in that with her, which is so fun, even though I wasn't working. Yeah.

[B]

Well, as chief Growth officer. So, like, growth is scary. Growth is desired. I love setting goals. Ooh, I could brainstorm. My favorite thing is to, like, lunch brunch and brainstorm that. Oh, yeah, let's get all the ideas. Let's throw it up on a whiteboard. Oh, that's so tasty. And then to actually push the boulder up the mountain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What would you say is one of the greatest challenges of being in charge of growth? And what do you wish more people knew about that process?

[A]

Wow. Everything just goes back to the don't cut your own banks moment. We have a solid team of project managers, and our director of project management is wonderful. We work with a lot of content creators, and we really need all of that support. So I think that's the big thing is, yeah, you can have the really big ideas, and Janine and I love having those. But we also really love strategizing and putting in the work. We actually have to have, like, limit. Sometimes I'll lock my computer in the car at night just as I'm like, I've got to put work away because that's a hard thing when you really love what you do. I don't want to miss the important stuff with my family too, but it's really easy to get. You get excited about something and get going. So we have those moments of the brainstorms, and I think the strategy is where both of us love being the most. And then we've got a great team that also will help move that along with project management. The big thing. I mean that I loved that book who not how. It was really funny if you don't know the backstory that the author actually didn't even write the book. He was like, I am not a good writer. I hired a ghostwriter.

[B]

I'm so glad that more and more people are actually talking about that openly, because it's absolutely. It's affirming when people can really clone. This is my zone of genius. And then I hired someone for their zone of genius.

[A]

Right. I think that's the biggest thing. And it's likely that's anybody that you're looking at. We have a great team behind us too, that it takes all of us together to make it work. So I think that's the biggest thing is not just me.

[B]

So with growth, would you say the thing that, like, you wish more people know is you don't have to grow alone?

[A]

Absolutely. I think you don't have to grow alone. And I think we so often get this in our heads of, I just have to work a little harder. And I think that's such a lie, especially for women and moms, of, I just have to work a little harder. I had back in my beauty counter days, I had dinner with the CEO and founder, Greg Renfrew at the time, and I asked her, what's one thing you wish more women knew in business? And she said, how many? I thought this was so funny that she picked us, because I would have never guessed. She said, how many male CEOs do you know that are cutting up snacks for their kids soccer team? And I was like, that was such a pivotal thing I needed to hear at that time because I was building my business and I'm trying to be the first person when the school calls and to get the kids and I gotta keep the house clean and all these other things that. With so much more pressure. And yeah, I just. I had a nice conversation with my husband after that too. And he was like, yeah, you're right. But so I think finding the means to delegate some of those things, like you and I were talking about whether it's Your funding by a Walking Dead commercial, making a list. What do you do every single day, every single week? And what of that can be delegated? And it's really not as hard as you think. And that's, like, the best exercise in the world to do because you feel so good when you're like, no wonder I'm freaking tired. Look at what I'm doing. So I tried to do that. If ever I have a friend, too, that's going through something, I'm like, let's just start here. Yeah. Let's literally circle what doesn't have to be you or what do you hate doing, what's not filling you up and what's draining you. It's taking from your capacity in other areas.

[B]

And I would even say, like, a really big call to action is when you've done this exercise or even if you think you've done it, there's always more room than you. Because I just recently came back from a Disney cruise, and in the preparation and packing for this trip, the family trip that had been taking previously, my husband and I had a really. I don't even. I don't remember how we got there, but we were having one of those, like, tense, prickly moments with one of them conversations. Real sexy stuff. Yeah. What came out of that was I wasn't aware of what I was holding myself accountable to in terms of thinking. Thinking through what will my kids need each day we're on the trip. I'm just talking through this with David. And he was like, wait, what? He was like, this. You are holding all of that in your brain. And then it just. It brought so much more clarity and context because it was just information he was missing. He was like, well, no wonder when I come to you and ask what you need help with, you're like. Because you just. You're carrying this entire. He was like, that doesn't feel balanced. I don't feel good about the fact that you're doing all of that yourself. And I wasn't even aware of what help I needed to ask for because it. I was just carrying it. All that to say, yes, make the list, sit down with a friend, do exactly what Sarah said, and then maybe give yourself grace when you find, oh, there's a 2.0 and there's a 2.5, there's a 3 version of the list.

[A]

Okay, I just. I'm laughing because this is. I literally have these in my bag to take to somebody today. Have you heard of this? No. Okay. So these are literally every possible task associated with owning a home or having a family. And you literally. I saw this and I was like, why would anyone make this. Do they want a divorce? And. Because it seems like a really great way to have a fight and. But I. It comes with, like, specific instructions. Definitely follow the instructions. This is not a paid ad. I don't work for them. But I actually did it with my husband and last year. And so you basically put who's doing what in the pile. And then you look and it's is it equal? And if it's not, then whoever it's not spoiler. Then you have to choose. And this was really hard for me. You have to choose what card you're giving for them to own and then they own that card. And so we're trying to do like a quarterly check in with this of. Do you want to trade a card or something? Like, I don't know. I've taken out the trash like the past six times and because I got tired of saying it's your card, it's your card. So, like, this next quarter I'll probably be the trash person or one of the kids will get that. It really was helpful, helpful to rebalance those expectations. I think that's another thing is when you're looking at growth, making sure you're not just looking at work growth and that you're thinking about what's going to fall. Because we all know it's a balancing act that doesn't exist. There's no balance.

[B]

And I love in terms of think because I think sometimes our fights get boiled down to things not being equal or fair, but I think thinking about what feels equitable. And Brene Brown talks a lot too, about personally checking in with what your capacity is before trying to ascribe to or assign a role. It's like all of that nuance is great, but also I love a good card deck. I love it.

[A]

It's great. I really have been like, recommending it, but I wouldn't just jump into it. Especially if you're mad. Don't bring it up. Wait until you're calm. And yeah, I think it was really helpful for us to. Sure.

[B]

So you're saying this isn't the tool to break up a fight.

[A]

This is not school to break up a fight. And I would even put some kind of a ground rule of like, don't bring it up in a fight.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because the point is partnership.

[B]

Right. That's great. Well, Sarah, I. This isn't a smooth transition, but nevertheless, we are here and I want to know about Your don't cut your own bang moment before you hop off.

[A]

Well, I think mine is, and we've touched on it a little bit. I think right when I was shifting from nursing into my own business, I had this idea the whole goal was to help prevent burnout in healthcare. And what I think is really funny is that what ended up happening is every client that I worked with, I ended up telling them to leave healthcare. So the whole goal was keep all the people in healthcare that I saw leaving because they were burnout. And it, like, was too late by that point. It was literally that opposite, truly all leaving healthcare. But in some capacity, I was recommending they leave their current role because, I mean, we've seen. And in the past decade, a lot has happened in healthcare.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like there's this debate anymore of, is our healthcare system broken? When I started that company, there was a big debate about that. In fact, my parents that were in healthcare, one of the first things my mom said was like, nobody's gonna buy this. But I was like, thanks, mom. That's awesome. And I think now there's nobody who. Who's questioning, is there a need for a change in healthcare? Yeah. But my don't cut my own bangs moment was definitely like, thinking, oh, I've got this figure out. Like, I'm in. And it's, nope, this is a huge issue and many other facets. And I think what I ended up figuring out, not intentionally, it was more of that curiosity that you were talking about as working my way through different steps that ultimately led me here with just being open to what the real goal is.

[B]

You know, going back to this is a little bit of a bookend of thinking, oh, I don't wanna bother somebody. Just, that's God laughing. The moment, the millisecond. I think I've got this figured out every time.

[A]

Oh, boy.

[B]

There's someone somewhere is laughing. You do. This is a growth moment.

[A]

Yeah. Let's see that.

[B]

Yeah, we'll pressure test that theory. Well, Sarah, thank you. Thank you so much for. For taking the time. I'm so glad we were able to do this and bring this together. And for everyone listening, just the fair play card deck and tell me the book title again. I want to make sure.

[A]

Book. Yes. Yeah. Oh, who not how.

[B]

Who not how?

[A]

For having me and a great time. I could talk to you forever.

[B]

That was such a great conversation with Sarah. Thank you. Thank you, Sarah, for the work you're doing and for sharing your story with us here today. And one of the things that I loved most about this conversation is how clearly you can hear the thread running through everything Sarah does. Connection. Connection between moms, connection between communities, connection between women who are just a few steps ahead of each other and sharing what they learn along the way. And that idea that a city mom is just a little bit like your best friend's older sister, someone who knows where the good stuff is and is happy to point you in the right direction. That is such a beautiful way to think about community. If you're curious to learn more about city moms, I've linked everything you need in the show notes along with some of the resources that Sarah mentioned in the conversation, including the Fair Play Deck and the book who, not how, which are both fantastic tools for thinking about support, partnership, and how we can build lives that we want without trying to do everything alone. And honestly, if you take one thing away from this conversation, I hope that it is the reminder that you are not supposed to figure everything out by yourself. There are people out there building communities and creating spaces that make life a little bit easier, more joyful, and certainly more connected. As always, thank you for being here, for sharing your time with me, and if you enjoyed this episode, feel free to send it to us. A friend, another mom, or someone in your life who might appreciate this reminder that community makes everything better. Until next time, take care of yourselves and don't cut your own bangs.