Podcast Summary

Podcast: Don't Cut Your Own Bangs
Host: Danielle Ireland
Episode: When Learning Gets Messy & "No" Sets You Free — Best Lessons of the Year: Week 2
Date: December 8, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode is a heartfelt and practical deep dive into the discomfort of personal growth and the courage it takes to honor one’s boundaries. Host Danielle Ireland weaves together two powerful threads: her own experiences as a therapist navigating the “messy middle” of learning, and a candid conversation with City Moms founder Janine Botmire about the value of community, burnout, motherhood, and saying "no."
Tone: Warm, honest, and gently humorous.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Messy Middle of Learning – Solo Cast Highlights

[02:27–14:15]

• The Theme:
  Danielle revisits the recurring, often uncomfortable process of learning and growing, highlighting that “the middle is messy.”

• On Emotional Interpretation:
  Danielle’s goal is to help listeners “make big feelings feel less scary and more approachable.” She notes the importance of shrinking the gap between knowing what you feel and knowing what to do about it ([03:06]).

• “Tech Sweat” Story:
  She shares her recent struggle with adopting new podcast video technology, describing the sweaty anxiety and self-doubt that surfaced.

  “Both things can be true. I can be an amateur and a novice … and I can also be really proud of what I’ve learned so far, which has been a fuck ton.” — Danielle Ireland [06:00]

• The Learning Spiral:
  Danielle introduces the idea that learning is less like climbing straight stairs and more like moving through a spiral—each round through similar challenges brings deeper insight and a quicker, kinder recovery.

  “Each iteration of the spiral, my hands are getting closer and closer together. That gap is getting smaller.” — Danielle Ireland [11:45]

• Shifting Questions:
  She emphasizes the power of compassionate curiosity:

  • Not “Why am I not enough?” but “How do I want to feel? How do I want to treat myself?”
  • These questions propel actionable growth over shame or stagnation.

• Key Takeaway:
  The feelings we run from—fear, frustration, sadness—are also the birthplace of deeper connection, learning, and even laughter.

  “Learning is rarely graceful, and it doesn’t always look packaged nice or clean … it was also about letting go of old stories, about being willing to see ourselves differently, and about allowing the process to be slower and softer and maybe even more human than we expected.” — Danielle Ireland [14:15]

2. Community Building & Vulnerability with Janine Botmire

[15:12–29:09]

• Origin of City Moms:
  Janine describes moving to Indianapolis and feeling isolated as a mom of young children without existing local connections. Unable to find a non-church, non-school mommy community, she started City Moms to fulfill her own need and quickly realized many others shared it.

  “We had a hundred members sign up on the first day.” — Janine Botmire [17:18]

• On Supporting Women:
  Janine advocates, “We don’t need super women, we need supported women.” Community grows from offering others the healing we ourselves need ([15:25]).

• Intentional Brand Voice:
  City Moms embodies the voice of the “best friend’s cool older sister”—someone relatable, approachable, and aspirational, always just a little ahead in the journey.

  “We have been there, we have sat in those shoes. We have experienced a lot of the mess. But … we are just a couple days ahead of where our sitting mom might be.” — Janine Botmire [25:18]

• Humor & Messiness:
  Both Danielle and Janine stress the importance of humor and levity in messy situations:

  “There is something about the truth, especially the truth that you try so hard to avoid … But then you see somebody else has it and you’re like, you have that dress, too?” — Danielle Ireland [26:45]

• Making Membership Accessible:
  Janine describes transitioning City Moms to a free membership in response to financial stress during COVID—underscoring that belonging should not be a privilege.

  “That 9.99 a month … no, done. That’s out. Never. We will never go back to a paid membership. It will always be free because it needs to be accessible to everyone.” — Janine Botmire [29:09]

• The Power of "No":
  Janine takes pride in declining opportunities that don’t align with City Moms’ mission or values—even from companies she personally likes—demonstrating integrity over profit.

  “I never want to put someone into a brand consideration when that brand’s not considering them, just considering their own needs.” — Janine Botmire [31:15]

3. Saying “No” and Redefining Success

[32:02–36:25]

• Don’t Cut Your Own Bangs Moment:
  Janine’s vulnerable reflection on burnout (working 60–70 hour weeks, rarely seeing her kids) and the wakeup call when her toddler said, “Mommy always comes last.”

  “That was the most soul-crushing thing I had ever heard in my life … I cried the entire way home.” — Janine Botmire [34:29]

• Choosing to Leave:
  This pivotal moment led Janine and her husband to leave their jobs and relocate, founding a new chapter in Indianapolis.

  “It is okay to say no. It is okay to invest what matters to you.” — Janine Botmire [36:14]

• Danielle’s Reflection:
  Danielle reframes the idea of saying no as really saying yes to something else—often, oneself.

  “No spoken from truth is actually a yes to something else. And it's often yourself … Listening to your needs is not selfish, it’s wisdom.” — Danielle Ireland [36:45]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The process of learning is always the same, only always the same, forever. It starts with a problem, an obstacle, a need…”
  — Danielle Ireland [06:00]

• “Learning is rarely graceful, and it doesn’t always look packaged nice or clean…”
  — Danielle Ireland [14:15]

• “We don’t need super women, we need supported women.”
  — Janine Botmire [15:25]

• “Mommy always comes last.”
  — Janine Botmire’s son [34:29]

• “No, Sarah will tell everyone this. … it isn’t going to work for us.”
  — Janine Botmire [30:39]

• “No, spoken from truth, is actually a yes to something else. And it’s often yourself.”
  — Danielle Ireland [36:45]

Important Timestamps

• [02:27] – Danielle introduces “tech sweat” and the real-time messiness of learning
• [06:00] – Breaking down the iterative spiral of growth
• [14:15] – The process is never neat; embracing the slow, human journey
• [15:12] – Janine Botmire recounts founding City Moms
• [24:20] – The tone and voice behind City Moms’ content
• [29:09] – Making City Moms free and accessible
• [31:15] – The integrity of saying no to misaligned opportunities
• [34:29] – The emotional “don’t cut your own bangs” turning point in Janine’s life
• [36:45] – Danielle’s reflection on boundaries and listening to your needs

Key Takeaways

• The discomfort of the learning process is normal—and means you’re making progress.
• Growth is a spiral, not a straight line.
• Community is crucial: choosing to support and be supported opens doors and heals old wounds.
• Saying no can be deeply brave and necessary; it’s a way to say yes to your own well-being and your values.
• Laughter, honesty, and compassion make navigating the “messy middle” less lonely and far more human.

If you’re facing emotional overload or in the thick of your own “messy middle,” this episode serves as both a gentle reminder and an empowering invitation: Trust yourself, honor your needs, and know you’re far from alone.