← Don't Cut Your Own Bangs
Don't Cut Your Own Bangs
When Winning Means Losing & Wonder Brings You Back: Highlights with Eli Martinez
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In benefits they leave. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. Hello, hello and welcome to Don't Cut yout Own Bang's Best Lessons of the Year. This is a special recap series where I am taking and pulling some of the most poignant, powerful, soul shifting or thought provoking moments from the podcast this year and bringing them all into one bite sized little package this December. Because honestly, we need life to feel a little easier, a little less stressful. And if you're anything like me, as is often the case, the best lessons bear repeating. If you've ever found yourself thinking, God, how did I find myself here again? Or didn't I already learn that? And the honest truth is, you probably did. And yes, you might be repeating it again, but that's okay. You're human, you're not alone. And we're going to recap together and we're going to make sure we really got the lessons. Because dang it, these are good ones. This month I'm bringing curated highlights from some of the episodes that resonated most either the episodes that I got the most feedback on, the most questions about, or ones where people were like, yes, that that was the thing that I needed and I didn't know that I needed or I need to save that and put it on my wall and put post it stickers everywhere just to make sure it's always in front of me. I've got you. I've got you covered. Cause it's here. Every week you're gonna get a mix of top insights from my solo cast, highlights from my most impactful interviews, and threads of wisdom that tie it all together. Consider this a cozy end of your reflection tied in a beautiful podcast bow. This week we're looking at two powerful themes that on the surface may seem unrelated but do tie together in a surprising and beautiful way. One is a clip from my solo cast, which is what really happens when we get stuck in a win lose mindset and conflict, particularly in intimate relationships. It could be any relationship, but in this case I think we're really talking about our intimate relationships. And two, the deeper, wilder, more instinctual wisdom that we reconnect with when we are out in nature. We are starting with a clip from my solo cast when winning means losing, followed by highlights from my conversation with Eli Martina. Together, these remind us of how easy it is to lose ourselves in the push to be right and how possible it is to find ourselves by reconnecting with wonder, curiosity and the natural world. In this solo cast clip, a couple of highlights that I think are really helpful to kind of tease out how quickly a loved one can become an enemy. Once our nervous system floods and we are really activated in our fight response. Because once we decide that we have to win, that automatically puts the other person on the losing side and it puts them in a position. This may sound a little dramatic, but it makes them an enemy. And when you are trying to find a resolution in conflict, which I'm going to give us all the benefit of the doubt and say we're all trying to find resolution. But maybe that also gets conflated with wanting to feel heard, wanting to feel validated, wanting to know on some level that we're understood and our need to be heard and our need to be right. What that cuts us off from is the underlying current, which is this is an exchange. This isn't a one way conversation. This is a give and take that both of us are playing a part in. And we can lose that when that wall goes up. Another one that really stood out to me in this clip was the momentum that builds with disagreements. It never actually starts the moment the argument is happening or the challenge has happened. That line in the sand was probably drawn a while back. And it's harder to know when you're actually in the throes of a tense conversation, how much history you're bringing to it or how present the challenge is. And if you have that opportunity to get some of that clarity, to see how much of this is about this moment, how much of this is about the past, the history, maybe even family of origin. Because to really get clarity and to come back to one another, it's almost better to separate those two conversations in this moment. This thing you did affected me this way and it felt that much more intense because of X, Y and Z in My history. But again, let's look at the clip. We can always continue this conversation later. Again, the best things in life bear repeating. When it's about winning or losing, you always lose what gets lost. In most heated exchanges, if we even peel back before the disagreement itself, there is a momentum that leads to disagreements. Whether a repeated pattern or repeated behavior or a fight that we keep having over and over and over again. It's never just isolated. In that moment in time, there is a momentum that leads to it. The issue in the kitchen or the fight in the bedroom or the feverishly upset text exchange thing that we are fighting for is to be heard or to feel validated, or for the other person to give us something. Usually something in the context of, you're right, I was wrong, I see it your way, I will change, and I will never do that thing that has led us to this moment that makes you uncomfortable ever, ever again. We're looking for some kind of either validation or a guarantee. And some of that makes sense, and some of that is just not. And it's hard to know in that moment in time when we are flooded with feelings, we're escalating, and two people have dug their heels in, it's sometimes hard to see the woods through the trees. But what I know to be absolutely true, having worked with couples who are actively fighting in front of me, which is not fun, it's probably my least favorite experience working as a therapist, it really activates my nervous system. But also in my own fights and my own disagreements with my husband, for example, when I am fighting to prove myself right at his the expense of his experience or his point of view, I will lose because I'm either going to say something hurtful to win, or I'm not listening, so I'm not receiving any of the information he's sharing. And also, once I'm that flooded and fighting to get my point of view across, I'm no longer in the environment and I'm no longer sitting in front of my husband. I'm sitting across an enemy and I'm at battle. And once that happens, once that mode is activated, that's when our worst qualities, our most destructive behaviors, can rise to the surface. And that erodes trust. It creates the opposite of really looking for. We're looking to be heard. One of the things that can be helpful is to even just catch that you're in it. Am I trying to win or am I trying to understand something new? Am I trying to win or am I seeking to be heard? Am I trying to win, meaning I need to be right and because in order for me to be right, they have to be wrong. Now there are of course times where there maybe is a clear cut right and wrong. But what I'm speaking about in this context is not physical altercations or the extremes that are a little more clearly discerned. It's those muddy, messy, icky moments with someone that you actually care about or somebody who has a relationship that's important to you because maybe it's not always a spouse or a romantic partner. It could be a friend, it could be a family member, it could even be a co worker. But they're not a villain, they're not evil. But that is also sometimes a trick that our mind will play on us when we are fighting so hard to win is we'll make the other person an enemy and we'll convince ourselves a story about them, whatever. Our mode of operating makes sense to us. But what you can do is if you catch yourself in that place, you're like, oh, the warrior. The warrior's armor is on and I am trying to win. This is by the way, the hardest thing for me to do anytime. Because whenever there is unease, unrest, discomfort in a relationship, my need to fix or my need to get to a resolution quickly is so strong. One of the best things you can do is pause the conversation, pause and walk away for a little bit. If, like me, you have that hyper vigilance that, that need for resolution, that need to caretake, or if you are a justice seeking person, you're like, I will fight the good fight. This is going to be really freaking hard. But I absolutely know, based on the science, based on what is happening in our brains, what's happening in our nervous system when we are engaged in our interaction like that, win or lose, you're gonna lose. So the best thing you can do when you catch it, even if it's mid sentence, is to, and I'll actually do this, I'll do something, I'll do a gesture with my hands, like I'll throw up my hands like this, like whoop, I need, I need to stop. Or I'll do a timeout hand signal, but I'll take a breath, I'll pump the brakes, literally and metaphorically, I'll pump the brakes on the conversation and I need to pause and take a beat. There's actually a really common thread that I've clients have told me about and I've actually experienced in my own life many times. I'll get off of a heated phone call and I'll hang up and then a few minutes will go by, something will soften or a new thought will come to me, or I'll have a moment of clarity, or I'll start to feel contrite and maybe a little guilty at something, at how I said something or what I said. And I'll actually have a better opportunity to reconnect through sending a text. Now, I'm not a fan of text fighting or avoiding actual connection through text, but there is this phenomenon of I have to stop the chain of events that's on, that's gaining momentum that I have. I'm losing control and I'm fighting hard to win and I press pause and I stop and I breathe and I reflect and then I'm seeing things in a different way. And then the act of texting is not to avoid the deeper connection, but I think there is something too similar to why I love journaling. I'm thinking about what I'm writing and I'm thinking about what I'm sending. And generally that is either an apology or a more well formed thought or a clarifying statement or a question that helps reframe. There is something about step out of the game. If you catch yourself in this like pickleball match of like point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint, point, counterpoint. You're just trying so hard to win. Step out of the game so that pause is not abandoning the other person or abandoning the topic altogether or it's not avoiding it. But I need to get out of this, the rules and the context of this game. Win or lose, I'm going to step out, I'm going to breathe and you know, you're in a better place to re approach the conversation. When I come back online. That's the language I use. It's hard to articulate into words because it's a full body experience. The more I am caught in winning or losing or making somebody wrong, my focus becomes really narrow and I only see the examples. I only see the points that prove my perspective right. When I step out of the game and I breathe, I come back to the present moment. Stepping out of our win or lose dynamic isn't weakness, it's wisdom. Because in the pursuit of making somebody wrong, it almost always puts us in a defensive position too. When we can layer a little compassionate curiosity into conversations with loved ones, particularly challenging ones. It gives gives us an opportunity to step out of a win lose dynamic and into a deeper sense of wisdom. And that idea beautifully sets up this part of my conversation with Eli Martinez because when you're in the wild, trying to win against nature ultimately sets us up in a losing position collectively. When you connect with nature versus resisting it. That connection is also when magic happens, when transformation happens, when beautiful things unfold. And we talk about some of that here. So now let's dive in with Elan Martinez. As we find ourselves in the holiday season, I have been thinking a lot about meaningful gifts. The kind that help us slow down, reflect, connect with ourselves and the people we love. If you're looking for something special, I've created two resources that come straight from my heart and my therapy practice. The first is called the Treasured Journal. It is a guided reflection reflection tool built around seven key areas of your life. Filled with prompts, sentenced stem stories and space to explore the things that really matter to you. It's a beautiful way to reset, especially as we're heading into our new Year. For the little ones in your life, or maybe grown ups who are helping them navigate their emotions, there is also my children's book Wrestling a Walrus for Little People with Big Feelings. It is a sweet story about a small penguin, a big obstacle, and the power of meeting our feelings with kindness instead of fear. Both make wonderful holiday gifts for friends, family or for yourself. Because calm curiosity and connection are gifts we all deserve. You can find both the Treasure Journal and Wrestling a Walrus in the links in the show notes or on my website, danielireland.com when your physical reality or even your mental reality feels so removed from the wild world. We live in boxed rooms and we're so connected with screens and my wildlife outside my window is squirrels, cardinals, Perfect. So how would you speak life into someone saying yes to an adventure and where do they begin?
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Oh man. I think it really, first and foremost, it all comes down to your comfort level. I think that there's so many ways for people to reconnect with nature. Whether it's hiking, whether it's biking, whether it's going to the beach for the day, watching a sunset. Just watching a sunset is so powerful. I think it's so important. I don't think we do it enough. I think that is probably the simplest way to remember that you are a part of something bigger. And as simple as it sounds, it is so important. Now watching a sunset in an amazing place is even 10 times better. It's that much more powerful just trying to reconnect with nature. I think the important part to remind people that yes, the earth is here. She is alive and she breathes and she's got A heartbeat every day. And I think that sunset is her heartbeat. And it's a great way to see it.
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I just saw, I think it was NASA released some footage of the particular. Some type of lens on a satellite that was able to actually detect a pulse on the Earth. Like the Earth has a heartbeat. But I'm sure the more science y people have another way of explaining it. But that it caught my attention and that feels just right on par with what you're saying. When the heart space and the headspace connect, I think that's when magic happens. Like when you can believe it in your mind, but then you experience it in your body. That is powerful. I think everybody needs to have an experience like getting into the deep ocean or going out into the wild nature. I really think everybody should have that in their life at least once. But I wanna share a little bit about what my experience was like with you and your wife swimming with Whitman Clarks. Because it was. There was so much momentum for me built up into what I thought that experience was gonna be. Because from the time I understood Little Mermaid Disney to the time I could name the dolphin body parts and thought that's what I wanted to be like this. There was so much emotional charge and I'm gonna go in the water and I'm gonna swim and. And it's going to be great. And I just had this idea that I'm going to connect with this shark. We're going to make eye contact and it's going to. We're going to just be on the same vibe. So many expectations that I never expressed, but they were all there. I was probably trying to keep it cool, but no, the reality. I will just to skip to the end. The reality far exceeds whatever I imagine the first day was me reconciling what I thought it would be and what it really was. Getting on a little charter boat going way out in the middle of the Gulf. And then I think sturgeon were spawning and that was what was drawing the sharks. And so it made visibility like all of these little eggs were refracting light. So it was this very sparkly. But also sometimes visibility was funky. And the thing that I couldn't wrap my head around was from the boat, you could look out at the water and see, I don't know, a dozen whale sharks at any given time. But then you get in the water and adrenaline hits and I don't know where they are. I can't see them. It's just having very little to no experience in the deep water. That was Such a jolt and a shock to my system. And then being in the water with an animal 20ft, 25ft, 30ft long, my nervous system just didn't know how to. To compute. It was so much. I don't think I'd ever been that tired, ever. It just. It took so much effort. And then day two, three, four, each day got a little easier because I had a better idea of what to expect. And also I didn't. You're covered in fish eggs. You're culvert in fish eggs. So the. The imagination that I would become this mermaid, this otherworldly creature, and have this like soul bond with a whale shark. It wasn't that, but the real life experience was incredible too. But I just. I don't. I guess I don't really know where I'm leading with the question, but how do you see when having guided so many people through these moments, like for somebody who's thinking about possibly planning an experience like that, like what. How do you prepare what would be good for someone to prepare for what that is?
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Like, it's so different for everybody. It's just valid.
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Not everybody maybe wants to be.
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Yeah, there's a few that want to be mermaids for sure on our trips. I'm not going to lie. But yeah, it's just really, these animals, the whale shark is a great. I call them, they're like gateway animals into a bigger world because, like, when it comes to seeing orcas and whales and of all different species and sharks, a whale shark is possibly. It's a great ambassador for the species because they're a harmless species. They're just like big giant catfish floating on the surface. And it's a wonderful animal for someone of all ages to experience. It really is the whale shark. And I don't know if you had manta rays on your trip as well, because sometimes they show up every other year. The manta ray is another ocean angel. They're just. They're just the perfect animal for people, for. If you want to experience the ocean, if you want to experience what life is like in the ocean in a Disney way, that is the perfect animal to do it with. It's very safe. It's a phenomenal way to decide if you know what I would like to do more of things like this or. This was perfect. This was enough.
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I want to go back. Something. Something that you wrote that I really liked, that reminded me, even though we are talking about safari, we're talking about adventure, we're talking about animals, I think the more specific we become, in a way, the more universal it becomes. And this quote made me think about a lot of the stuff that you write. It's a Mark Twain quote that travel is fatal to prejudice. Once you see something, you can't unsee something. I want to speak to the why beyond conservation. If I'm not connected to nature, if I'm not connected to. To animals, and I've got enough going on in my life that conservation, cool. I'm glad someone's taking care of it, but that's not my focus. What would be a personal, selfish reason that would be maybe a call to action that you like? What would be the invitation for somebody individually, not globally, not for any other reason, like why it could change your life to jump into the deep or get in a Jeep with no top and go drive out to a pride of lions. What is the reason that you could articulate why somebody should do that?
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I think the wildlife is. They're reminders of where we all came from. We were, all of us in our DNA. If you look at the generations of people that have lived on this planet, at some point, we were all part of that. We were all out there. There wasn't this separation between us and our wild places, whether it was the ocean, whether it was the jungle. Some of our ancestors had to deal with bears in their front porch. Some of our ancestors had to deal with lions walking through cam. That's something that we have either blocked out or forgotten. Obviously, we've forgotten just because of generations of separation from it. But we are all part of that. We are all part of this world beyond our cars and our homes and our clothes. We are part of nature a hundred percent. We've forgotten this. And I think these are great reminders to remind us, hey, this is where we all come from. This is. We're not separated from these things. We are very much a part of these things. And if anything, there are so many species that although they're no longer relevant in our world, they're so important for our world, not only as reminders, but as part of this giant balance, because we're all connected in some way, in some form. We're all, for lack of better, we're all one. And I think it's important to remind people that, like, we need to stay connected, we need to protect these animals because they're much a part of this earth as we are, and we have to remind people that they're there. Yeah, that's. This is our home. This is their home. This is our home.
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And I Also what I'm hearing too, it's. They. When you're in communion with nature, you become more in touch with or in tune with your own natural rhythm, your own self. There's. You might actually know him or. Cause I would imagine the community, like the pool you're in terms of career is probably small, I'm just guessing, but Boyd Vardy, he's from South Africa. He wrote the Lion Tracker's Guide to Life. He has a property in South Africa called Londolozi. It was a game preserve. Yeah, and. But his work in that book is basically teaching people to track wild animals. Helps them become more in touch with the rhythms of nature and by. Not by default, but through becoming more in tune with tracking nature. You, your track, like your path. So I think so many of the clients I attract are struggling with anxiety, depression and burnout. And I think a lot of the confusion and self doubt and head trash is also rooted in I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Maybe they don't articulate it like that, but it's experience that way of just, I don't know what I'm supposed to do as opposed to I want to know what I'm called to do. I want to know what I'm meant to do or what I want to do. My dog never questions when she's hungry, when she's tired. Like she is completely embodied because she doesn't have this giant brain getting in her way of everything. And I love hearing you talk about the more in tune you are with nature, you're reminded that you are nature too. That's.
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It's so important for people to stay connected to nature. And it's getting worse. I think it's just part of. Part of what I feel is that they are completely pulling us away from it. I think that unhealthy feeling. I remember having it as a growing up. I remember there was many times where I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't know what my calling was. But I always just. I remember standing there and just looking around saying, something's wrong. I don't belong here.
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That's something wrong. The language I like to use with clients is. That's usually what gets people into an appointment with me first. It's what I say. It's like your smoke detector is going off because your smoke detector can't tell the difference between burning toast or bacon and a fire in some part of your house. But it's just beeping because it senses smoke. Something's wrong. And so I think a lot of times getting that emotional awareness or that clarity starts with something's wrong. And then you sit with that. But then the discomfort. It's like, I think about that story with you and the bull shark the first time, it's. I either need to chase it and funnel down with it, or I need to run away from it. And I think that tension is what happens every time we hit a big emotion or a fork in the road or we're at a growth edge, we're about to change. But I think that is the following, the path of curiosity is almost always what leads you down to some new sense of understanding about yourself or the world. I wanna. Do you have. Of all of the experiences you've led other people through, do you have. It could be one. It could be more than one. It might even be with a member of your family. But have you seen, like, shifts happen in people that just observed? Because I have over the years seen many powerful shifts happen in sessions. But it's such an intimate thing. But where you're out in the wild with someone, are there any moments that stand out to you of just being like, whoa, this person is different, or this person is really having an experience here?
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Yeah. I have this one gentleman who would do adventures. He would do travel on his own. And then he went on one of our trips, a very successful businessman. And I could see that this was just something he was doing for life.
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That's interesting. That's so interesting.
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Yeah, he was. He was on the trip and he was there to experience the animal, but it was almost like a science project. It wasn't like he was super into the animal.
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Like, he was intellectualizing it.
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He was. It was like. It wasn't like a bucket list. It was like, okay, I'm on this journey of. I'm going to photograph now. I've been photographing these other things and I'm going to photograph wildlife now. We went out there, he had the experience, and it was almost like this. You could feel the shift of just now. I get it. Goosebump. Thinking about it. Yeah. It was like now. Okay, okay. You know, it was. It was.
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It was like his body, like it kicked on.
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Yeah. Something inside him came alive and it was just like more. It was a completely different. More than when he first started.
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Something inside him came alive that gave me chills and almost wonder if it's the distinction of when you were describing a sunset. Like the difference between driving in your car and you're getting somewhere as the sun happens to be going down and you're doing a million other things versus watching a sunset and taking it in. I love this conversation with Eli Martinez so, so much. And one of the things I love revisiting is this idea that watching a sunset, it. It seems so wildly underrated because every day the sun comes up and every day the sun goes down. And actually appreciating and admiring that cycle and that rhythm of nature that marks the start and the end of a day, it. It kind of gets you back in sync with the rhythm of the natural world, which is so much of what Eli's work is, not only highlighting the beauty of it, but allowing and reminding us that we are a part of it. And the sunset is such a great visual for that. The other thing that I love so much about this is being able to remind myself my experience swimming with whale sharks. There is this going back to the idea in the solo cast, this momentum that we bring into things that really matter to us, Whether it's how we imagined it to be or how we hoped it would be, or the plan that we set and locked into place in our minds. But when that plan or when that vision or when that dream or imagination meets reality, it's a little different. Not bad, not good. We're not winning or losing, right? It's. It's different. And the more we can allow ourselves to feel that vulnerable, I would say even tender slash brave sense of adventure, the more opportunity we have to allow our dreams to meet reality and then decide what we want to do with that wisdom. When it comes to when we let ourselves be in awe, to explore things that feel familiar, to see parts of the world that we thought were so separate from us, whether it's a sunset or a great hike, or swimming with a gentle giant like a whale shark, we can stop fighting for control and start listening more, listening more deeply to ourselves, to our intuition, to the people around us. And in that listening, we get a deeper sense of knowing and a deeper sense of who we really are. Now I want to take a quick moment and shout out somebody incredibly special and dear to my heart. If cooking for the holidays feels overwhelming or you just want to bring a little more joy and intention into your kitchen, my dear friend, Sarah Klein. Connect is your new secret ingredient. Sarah has been a private chef for 20 years, cooking for celebrities and families. And she shares simple, game changing recipes, tips and techniques that make everyday meals feel nourishing and fun. She believes in food as medicine, in quality over quantity. And she says that looks so yummy. Because she truly does that a lot. And honestly, it is so yummy. I cannot get enough of her food when I see her. And just a little side note, I try to cook for her when I see her because I want to give her a break. But also selfishly, I'm like, can you just cook for me, please? Like, I know you're off the clock, but your food is so delicious. When you sign up for her annual substack subscription, you'll get a free 30 minute consultation with Sarah where you can ask her literally anything. Meal planning, nutrition, organizing your kitchen, or even a perfect party planning menu. She bails me out. Honestly. Every Thanksgiving I have to be reminded of cooking time, brining time, baking time. She just has an organizational mind that I don't and I appreciate so much. Make sure to visit the link in the show notes to connect with Sarah to bring more joy into your kitchen this season. Both of these clips today, dealing with conflict in nature point to the same truth that learning to trust yourself is an ongoing practice. Listening to your needs isn't selfish, and it's ultimately how you find your way back home to your center. Sometimes the bravest thing that you can say is, this isn't working and I'm willing to try something new. Relationships are brave. That's why I loved talking about conflict and jumping into the great unknown. With an adventurer like Eli Martinez, you may, when you look at his Instagram feed or look at his YouTube videos, of doing incredible things like swimming with anacondas and alligators and orca whales. How does that have anything to do with conflict? And I can say, as someone who has experienced my own version of both of these environments, deeply in the trenches and conflict in my personal life and relationships, and stepping into the wild in my own way, what you feel internally, physiologically like, what you feel in your body is the same. You have a vision in your mind of how you think it will be. Then you're confronted with the real moment. You feel the rush of maybe a perceived threat, slash excitement of stepping into something new. And then you step into an unknown experience, whether that is between you and another person that you love, where you're trying to find a new way of understanding, a new way of connecting, or whether that's stepping into some beautiful, remote part of our world. Both require their own type of bravery, but the internal environment in you is what's carrying you into both of those encounters. So whether you need a little bit more bravery and connection in your relationships or you're ready to answer the call of adventure, you can check out the link in the show notes where both of the full length episodes are saved for you, but if not enjoy this bite sized nugget. I hope that you have an incredible day and thank you for being here. Thank you for listening and sharing this time with me. It is a treasure. Every time I get to record an episode and get to continue this conversation and grow this community with you. Please remember before you hop off to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. It helps it grow, it helps it connect and I want to hear from you. You can email me@danielleanielireland.com in the subject line Bangs. Put bangs in the subject line so I know what it's pertaining to and hit me up with questions, comments, feedback. You can always comment on the podcast too, but if you want to message me directly and say hey girl, can you talk more about X, Y and Z, I will say yes and please. So thank you so much for being here and I hope you continue to have an incredible day.