Beyond the Reading Rainbow, Roots and Star Trek with LeVar Burton

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dropping Names ...and other things

Episode: Beyond the Reading Rainbow, Roots and Star Trek
Hosts: Brent Spiner & Jonathan Frakes
Guest: LeVar Burton
Release Date: January 29, 2026

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Overview

In this vibrant and nostalgia-packed episode, Brent Spiner and Jonathan Frakes launch the first guest interview of their Hollywood storytelling podcast by welcoming their longtime friend and colleague, LeVar Burton. The three reflect on decades of friendship, memorable Hollywood encounters, backstage antics from Star Trek: The Next Generation, and the broad impact of Burton’s iconic work across Roots, Reading Rainbow, and more. The episode is rich with laughter, candid confessions, and a rapid-fire game of "name dropping," punctuated by a ringing bell for every significant celebrity or cultural figure.

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Episode Outline & Key Discussion Points

Opening Banter & Setting the Tone

• Timestamps: 00:00–02:35
  • Light ribbing about personal grooming before the show (manicures, beard trims).
  • Friendly teasing segues into introducing LeVar Burton, alluding to his career-defining role on Reading Rainbow.
  • Memorable moment: Hosts sing the "Reading Rainbow" theme as LeVar makes his entrance.

LeVar Burton – Broadway Dreams & Early Career Stories

• Timestamps: 02:35–08:38
  • College tales: LeVar describes his unexpected role as Ali Hakim in Oklahoma! at USC and being mentored by Ernie Saracen.
  • Hollywood beginnings: discusses the camaraderie and influences during his early career—including shoe shopping stories and making sartorial impressions.
  • LeVar is the "sartorial" expert among TNG cast, regularly buying white bucks.

Name-Dropping Game: The Bell Rings

• Timestamps: 05:33–09:17
  • The hosts explain the episode’s premise: dropping a Hollywood name earns a "bell"—the more significant, the louder the ring.
  • LeVar’s Top Name: Steve McQueen—Burton shares stories from filming The Hunter (McQueen’s last movie).
    • Quote: “First time I met [McQueen], he had his head under the hood of some hot rod and was drinking a Bud, which was his beer of choice.” – LeVar, 06:42
  • More names: Ali MacGraw, Eli Wallach, Ben Johnson, Catherine Harold, Kathleen Turner, Lawrence O’Donnell…

On Being Starstruck & Meeting Personal Heroes

• Timestamps: 06:13–13:18
  • LeVar on Steve McQueen: Young and awestruck at 19 years old, surrounded by screen legends.
  • Details the shift of his role in The Hunter from a pet dog to a meaningful supporting character, thanks to McQueen’s advocacy.
    • Quote: “The part that I played was originally a dog, a pet… Steve wanted me in the movie. He really liked my work in Roots.” – LeVar, 10:47

Working with Icons: From Audrey Hepburn to Diane Keaton

• Timestamps: 12:25–16:19
  • LeVar recounts meeting Audrey Hepburn at an Italian awards show, and receiving a Movado watch from Silvio Berlusconi (before Berlusconi was Prime Minister).
  • Hollywood anecdotes expand to Diane Keaton, Richard Gere, and the vivid experience of standing among "top ten" industry legends.
    • Quote: “I was indeed and in fact the first man to kick Richard Gere’s ass on camera.” – LeVar, 09:34

Star Trek: The Next Generation—Life on Set

• Timestamps: 14:14–16:55
  • The trio discuss the challenges of technobabble, the pressure of being prepared, and the show’s reputation for no improvisation.
  • Differences in how LeVar, Brent, and Jonathan handled memorizing complicated dialogue.
    • Quote: “The dialogue... the language that we used in Star Trek was its own thing. It was like learning Shakespeare on a different level.” – LeVar, 16:19

Early TV Work, Game Shows, and "Dummy"

• Timestamps: 16:56–26:23
  • Discusses LeVar’s film Dummy and the unique experience of acting with Paul Sorvino (and Sorvino’s memorable Star Trek guest spot).
  • LeVar’s penchant for game shows—his success as a contestant and eventual hosting gigs.
  • Tangents about legendary Hollywood names the cast has worked with, including Mira Sorvino, Jobeth Williams, Liza Minnelli, and more.

Legendary Bachelor Parties & Vegas Tales

• Timestamps: 27:04–33:39
  • The group reminisces about LeVar’s Vegas bachelor party—complete with Frank Sinatra concert, meeting Frank Sinatra Jr., and backstage drama.
  • Notable quote: “It was like a scene from a movie. They ushered us down to this booth. ... We saw Sinatra perform...” – Brent, 29:42
  • Hilarious casino stories, including LeVar’s bold blackjack win in Tulsa, and collective wisdom about knowing when to walk away.

The Generational Impact of Reading Rainbow

• Timestamps: 34:26–36:06
  • Jonathan observes that LeVar has three cultural cornerstones: Roots, Reading Rainbow, and Star Trek.
  • Quote: “I’ve been able to portray the black experience in America from our enslavement to the stars...” – LeVar, 35:06
  • Reading Rainbow’s intergenerational legacy and the personal inspiration of LeVar’s mother, Irma Jean.

Family Roots, Surprising Ancestry, and "Finding Your Roots"

• Timestamps: 36:13–39:29
  • Moving story about learning (through Finding Your Roots) that LeVar’s educational legacy is also found on his father’s side; forging new relationships with previously unknown family members.
    • Quote: “I have determined that, you know, I’ve been able to portray the black experience in America from our enslavement to the stars...” – LeVar, 35:06
    • Quote: “I have ancestors on my father’s side of the family who started a school. ... There is no way I could have turned out any other way.” – LeVar, 37:17

The Speaking Circuit & Adapting to Fans

• Timestamps: 39:30–41:18
  • LeVar prefers unscripted "fireside chat" events over prepared speeches. Venues and audiences choose topics spanning his career.
  • Wry comparison to the podcast: “Sort of like this. ... Without the bell.” – LeVar, 40:17

Game Show Host—From Jeopardy Aspirations to Trivial Pursuit

• Timestamps: 41:22–43:39
  • Details on hosting Trivial Pursuit on The CW, how missing out on Jeopardy! was a blessing.
    • Quote: “My whole desire around Jeopardy was in fact to get me to the point where Trivial Pursuit came to me... we don’t want anybody else to be our host but you.” – LeVar, 41:34
  • The show films in London for cost-effectiveness, with American contestants and a companion show, Scrabble hosted by Craig Ferguson.

Meeting Legends & Most Impactful Encounters

• Timestamps: 43:44–50:05
  • LeVar tells how he dodged an intimidating audition with Sidney Poitier (whom Brent would later meet at an intimate dinner).
  • More names: Leslie Bricusse, Roger Moore, Tommy Lee Jones, Mae West, and a young Ben Vereen.

Star Trek: Directing, Set Antics & Treasures

• Timestamps: 53:35–55:02
  • Frakes asks Burton about director habits he’s borrowed ("action, please" from Frakes), and whether any props found their way home. LeVar admits to keeping Geordi’s visor.

The Star Trek "Family" Experiencing the Reunion

• Timestamps: 56:08–60:17
  • Reflecting on the emotional return to the bridge set for Picard and having their friendships—and characters—evolve believably over decades.
    • Quote: “[Showrunner] Terry Matalas... gathering how important it was to talk to us individually about the 20 years in between.” – Johnny, 57:33
    • The return to set recharged Patrick Stewart and demonstrated the bond among the cast was unchanged.

Final Thoughts: Gratitude, Legacy, and Friendship

• Timestamps: 60:18–62:29
  • The trio expresses deep gratitude for their shared journeys, the luck of meeting idols, and the privilege of meaningful work.
  • LeVar: “Gratitude is the grace that makes God grow in our lives. Can I get a bell for God?” – LeVar, 51:55

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “My life, as unlikely as it has seemed to me for a long time, has intersected with a lot of people that I have admired from afar.” – LeVar Burton, 26:32
• “I’ve been able to portray the black experience in America from our enslavement to the stars through Roots and Star Trek.” – LeVar Burton, 35:06
• “I want it to be in the big leagues so I could meet and work with—or at least lead you to this podcast—my heroes.” – Brent, 51:04
• On Steve McQueen: “He called me Birdie. ...The first time I met him was in his garage.” – LeVar Burton, 07:04
• On gratitude: “Gratitude is the grace that makes God grow in our lives.” – LeVar, 51:55

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Additional Fun & Running Gags

• The Bell: Used with gusto for every notable name dropped—sometimes humorously overused, adding to the infectious silliness and warmth.
• Hollywood Trivia: Spontaneous contests about who had met the biggest legends, who stole what from the set, and outlandish run-ins with icons.
• Shared memories: Tales of casino wins, bachelor parties, and personal rituals on set.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:09 – LeVar’s musical entrance & spontaneous song parody
• 06:13 – Steve McQueen stories
• 14:14 – Behind the scenes at Star Trek: dialogue and cast chemistry
• 27:45 – The Vegas bachelor party and Sinatra concert
• 35:06 – LeVar on the cultural impact of Reading Rainbow, Roots, and Star Trek
• 37:17 – Revelatory story from Finding Your Roots
• 41:34 – Why Trivial Pursuit is Burton’s perfect game show
• 51:55 – “Gratitude is the grace that makes God grow in our lives.”
• 56:08 – Emotional recollections of returning to the Enterprise bridge for Picard

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Closing Reflections

This episode is a joyous convergence of Hollywood lore, friendship, and gratitude. LeVar Burton’s humility and humor shine as he reflects on his career and the personal impact of his legacy. Brent and Jonathan, ever the affable hosts, celebrate not just their guest, but the serendipity and shared passion that made Star Trek and their continued friendship so unique. For Star Trek fans, pop culture aficionados, or anyone who loves a good story, this episode sets the gold standard for dropping names—with meaning.

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Bell Count: Too many to tally, but LeVar sets a record for the most "bells" rung in an episode!

Legacy Quote:
“Gratitude is the grace that makes God grow in our lives. Can I get a bell for God?” — LeVar Burton (51:55)

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Listeners come away feeling like they, too, have just spent an evening with three beloved friends—laughing, reminiscing, and, above all, appreciating the journey.

Transcript

[Brent]

So, yeah, man, I have a question.

[Johnny]

Shoot.

[Brent]

What did you do to prepare for today? I see you got maybe got a beard trim.

[Johnny]

I had a haircut and a beard trim earlier in the week because when I came in to have the lovely and talented Deb Zoller work on me, I didn't want to hear. To do too much because there's, you know, there's only so much you could do.

[Brent]

I. I got a manicure.

[Johnny]

Are you kidding me? No.

[Brent]

And I know this could get a manicure. I did.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah.

[Brent]

And this could be a little over the top, but I got a pedicure, too, just in case somebody asked me to take my shoes off.

[Johnny]

How are your feet?

[Brent]

You don't really want to see them.

[Johnny]

That's what I'm saying. You got a pedicure. And would you be willing to show your feet or are you going on, like a beach vacation somewhere?

[Brent]

If we start to flag today, you're

[Johnny]

going to break your feet up.

[Brent]

I could show my feet and that'll kind of pick us up.

[Johnny]

I used to be proud of my feet.

[Brent]

Yeah. Ooh, my feet.

[Johnny]

My poor, poor feet.

[Brent]

Let me ask you something.

[Johnny]

You bet your life a waitress earns her pay.

[Brent]

I'm going to ask you something.

[Johnny]

Okay.

[Brent]

And I want you to know. By the way, you got that serious voice. Yeah. I want you to know that before I ask a question ever, I always say, let me ask you something.

[Johnny]

Yeah, I've noticed that's.

[Brent]

So do you. So to prepare you that I'm going to ask you a question.

[Johnny]

And do you think I hear that or anybody hears that and then. And changes how they're going to respond?

[Brent]

I don't know.

[Johnny]

I'm going to ask you a question.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

Do you say, let me ask you a question or say, I'm going to.

[Brent]

Let me ask you a question.

[Johnny]

Go ahead.

[Brent]

Or can I ask you a question?

[Johnny]

Sure. Or the people say this. Anything.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

You know what you said in the promo, which I liked, was we'll talk to anybody.

[Brent]

Well, that's true.

[Johnny]

As long as their stories are good, that's still true.

[Brent]

Yes, of course.

[Johnny]

Let's see how it goes today.

[Brent]

So should we just. Yeah. You know, we've got somebody coming in right now, our very first guest. We're very pleased to have him. And he really needs no introduction. Well, we wouldn't want to tell you who it is, but we're going to give you a little clue. Okay. Goes like this. Butterfly in the sky. I can go twice as high.

[Johnny]

Take a look.

[Brent]

It's in A book, reading rainbow,

[LeVar Burton]

dropping names and other things where the whiskey flows and the laughter sings. Pull up a seat, Join the game of Brad and Johnny Potasher.

[Brent]

You know, we could redo the song after he leaves.

[Johnny]

Yeah, it was sad. It was so sad.

[LeVar Burton]

We can read a little modeling.

[Brent]

But you know what? I figured Butterfly in the sky. That's not the melody. It's in a book.

[Johnny]

Aren't you sick of people stop you at the airport and singing?

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, they do.

[Johnny]

Yeah. But you never want them to stop.

[LeVar Burton]

I don't. I. I don't. And I don't tire of it, really. It's reflective of the fact that they really appreciate the show and. And. And the impact that it's had on their lives. Yeah. Cats. Can I just say yes? This is awesome.

[Brent]

Thank you.

[LeVar Burton]

This is so cool.

[Johnny]

There was never any question who we wanted to start with, really. Because it was the two of us schmoozing.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes.

[Johnny]

And we did this for a full day.

[Brent]

But listen, we've never met before, right?

[LeVar Burton]

Not to my knowledge.

[Brent]

Okay.

[Johnny]

And then we said the only other person we know who would understand the way we're doing this is Lavar. Could we start with Lavar?

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

And then you said, yes.

[LeVar Burton]

I'm happy to.

[Johnny]

You know, the show is called Dropping Names. Dropping Names and other things at Brent and Johnny Show.

[LeVar Burton]

Am I a name that to be dropped?

[Johnny]

Your name has been dropped. Hold on, hold on.

[Brent]

There we go.

[Johnny]

What I was hoping.

[Brent]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny]

Was that before we get into your extensive career and the things I remember about you that I love, one of which is that I believe when you were at. After you had gone to seminary, you went to usc, then you stayed in the Jewish fraternity.

[LeVar Burton]

I did.

[Johnny]

Then you were in a production of Oklahoma.

[LeVar Burton]

I was.

[Brent]

And you played Ali Hakeem, the Persian rug dealer.

[LeVar Burton]

Hello, Kido. How are you?

[Brent]

Neil Parker.

[LeVar Burton]

Damn glad to meet you.

[Brent]

How you didn't go to Broadway with that? I don't know.

[LeVar Burton]

You know, it was. The production at USC was directed by Ernie Saracen, who did Ali Hakim on Broadway.

[Brent]

And so he kind of, like, coached you. He did, yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, yeah, he did.

[Johnny]

I didn't see. There's a detail he didn't know. But in the spirit of the show, I found out early on in our relationship after you talked me into buying those expensive shoes. Do you know when I went to side of war with Levar? Have you heard this story?

[Brent]

No.

[Johnny]

I tried on a pair of. Were they.

[LeVar Burton]

They were expensive alligator shoes?

[Johnny]

Yes, they were loafers. I said, I can't afford These. I said, jonathan, you can. We have a TV show.

[LeVar Burton]

You're on a TV show.

[Johnny]

I wore those shoes on a TV show years and years.

[Brent]

I remember buying a pair of shoes one time. And again, it was very similar to that as a pair of shoes. I would never dream of buying really cool loafers that I got from Fred Siegel. And I. Levar came over and I showed them to him and Lavar said, I want to marry those shoes.

[Johnny]

You've always been our sartorial.

[LeVar Burton]

Do you remember when every year I would buy a new pair of white bucks.

[Johnny]

Of course. And wear them, and then I got it dirty.

[LeVar Burton]

And then you would make it your thing to step on them.

[Johnny]

Because I'm 13 years old, in spite of being 73, I wanted to go back to the Hunter.

[LeVar Burton]

Okay.

[Johnny]

Because of.

[Brent]

Let's just say that. Can we just, like, do this quick wrap that since you're the first guest. This is the first show. The show's called Dropping names because that's what we want to do here.

[Johnny]

And when you do drop a name, like from the hunter, Steve McQueen, we get a bell.

[LeVar Burton]

An angel gets its wings.

[Brent]

Exactly that, too. But the idea being that people who have fans of their own, which you have millions of them, are also fans of people, and they get, you know, tongue tied, gobsmacked, whatever, when they're on a set or even just meeting them.

[LeVar Burton]

Right.

[Brent]

Give us. Give us your top, top guy. And. And Steve's.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, Steve is really it. I mean, you, you, you.

[Johnny]

And it was his last movie. Correct?

[LeVar Burton]

We did the Hunter together. It was his last movie. He was amazing to me. First time I met him was in his garage. He and Ali. Ali McGraw, of course, were.

[Brent]

For God's sake.

[LeVar Burton]

They were living in a house on the Pacific coast highway in Malibu. And literally when I got there, he had his head under the hood of some hot rod and drinking a Bud, which was his. His beer of choice. Yeah.

[Brent]

You know, I knew when you said he had his head under, I was like, I didn't know where you were going with that, but because he had

[Johnny]

already mentioned Ali McGraw.

[LeVar Burton]

She was in the house.

[Brent]

Who else was in that movie?

[Johnny]

Eli Wallach.

[LeVar Burton]

Wow. Eli Wallach. Ben Johnson.

[Brent]

Who?

[LeVar Burton]

Ben Johnson.

[Brent]

Johnson.

[LeVar Burton]

Let's see. The lovely Catherine Herald.

[Johnny]

Catherine Harold, who I was on the Doctors with.

[LeVar Burton]

You were?

[Brent]

Oh, you know who she was married to?

[Johnny]

You know who replaced her on the Doctors?

[LeVar Burton]

No.

[Johnny]

Kathleen Turner.

[Brent]

Wow. You know, Kathleen Katherine Harold was married to Lawrence o'. Donnell. Yeah.

[Johnny]

See, the names are just Lawrence.

[LeVar Burton]

Lawrence.

[Brent]

Get a battle.

[Johnny]

The Bell is going to be a fucking runner. That's going to save this show.

[LeVar Burton]

All right, the show is about the bell.

[Brent]

But what did McQueen call you?

[LeVar Burton]

Birdie.

[Brent]

Birdie. And what do I call you?

[LeVar Burton]

Birdie.

[Johnny]

What do I call you?

[Brent]

Yeah, Birdie. What do you call me?

[LeVar Burton]

Spine.

[Brent]

Exactly.

[Johnny]

What do you call me?

[LeVar Burton]

My ally.

[Johnny]

Don't you love that?

[LeVar Burton]

I do.

[Johnny]

Do we have that?

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, we do. I, I do love that. Yeah. Who else was in the Hunter? I mean it was, it was amazing to, to know the history that Steve had with these men. Right?

[Brent]

Oh, with Eli Wallaga.

[LeVar Burton]

7. Ben Johnson, you know, a hundred movies.

[Brent]

Probably Nevada Smith.

[LeVar Burton]

Nevada Smith.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

It just, and, and, and to be there.

[Brent]

And me, how long were a kid?

[LeVar Burton]

I was 19. Yeah.

[Brent]

Could you just believe you were in the presence of these people?

[LeVar Burton]

I could not. Yeah, I could not.

[Johnny]

When was this? Before looking for Mr. Goodbar.

[LeVar Burton]

This was after looking for Mr. Goodbar was my third job. There was Roots and then a TV movie for PBS called Almost a Man, a short story by Richard Wright. And, and then.

[Brent]

It's gonna get tedious. I know it is, but he, he insists. So far, so far.

[Johnny]

Are you happy with the bell?

[Brent]

I, I like the bell so far, but we've been going for only 10 minutes.

[LeVar Burton]

I'm loving the bell so far. I, I, I, I would say that a, a more judicious bell.

[Johnny]

You think Richard Wright was on the border?

[LeVar Burton]

No, no, no. I, I like Richard Wright.

[Brent]

If they're top 10 gets the bell, right?

[Johnny]

Certainly. I'm waiting to see who you talk about from Mr. Goodbar.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, the lovely Diane Keaton. Oliver.

[Brent]

Shalom.

[Johnny]

Oliver.

[Brent]

Shalom.

[LeVar Burton]

And I was indeed and in fact the first man to kick Richard Gere's ass on camera.

[Johnny]

What about Richard Kiley?

[LeVar Burton]

Richard Kiley?

[Brent]

No, but that's impressive. Well, going back to McQueen just for a moment.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, Please.

[Brent]

Was he liked you? He did, yeah. What's the deal with that?

[LeVar Burton]

I don't, I, I don't know.

[Johnny]

Did he treat you, Was that like a father, son or was he old enough to be like a grandfather?

[LeVar Burton]

It was, it was like a, an older brother.

[Brent]

Yeah. Yeah. And he invited you to his house?

[LeVar Burton]

He did.

[Johnny]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that when you went under the hood? Yes, when you found him under the hood.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah. Drinking Bud.

[Johnny]

I love that story.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, Dolores, my ex manager, Delores Robinson, was very good friends with Ally McGraw and that's kind of how that happened.

[Johnny]

But so the role, but you had been casts?

[LeVar Burton]

Well, I was invited into the cast by Steve.

[Johnny]

Oh, before or after this meeting?

[LeVar Burton]

Immediately thereafter. Well, Actually, he had probably made up his mind. The part that I played was originally a dog, a pet.

[Brent]

Let's start with that. No, really? And did you have to, like, what was the audition like?

[LeVar Burton]

But Steve wanted me in the movie. He really liked my work in. In Roots, I suppose, and he just thought, you know, let me give the kid a, you know, a leg up.

[Brent]

Wow.

[LeVar Burton]

And. And so that role was, you know, shifted.

[Johnny]

So it went from being from a dog to.

[LeVar Burton]

To you to me to the dog. Didn't fix shit. Like. Like. Like my character did.

[Johnny]

So would you say the meeting was like what they called a chemistry meeting?

[Brent]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Johnny]

You ever had one of those?

[LeVar Burton]

No.

[Brent]

You know what else I haven't had? Ever read where certain actors are circling a role? I've never circled a role. Have you? I do. Have you ever circled a role, what that means?

[LeVar Burton]

I don't know.

[Brent]

Do you read that, though? Have you seen that? You know, this person is circling, trying to make a deal.

[Johnny]

Doesn't it?

[Brent]

Yeah, I think it really. What it means is they've already made the deal and they're going to do the movie, but somehow it hasn't been released. So they're circling it.

[LeVar Burton]

Let me say this about circling.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Because my interpretation of circling is that, you know, the actor is making up his or her mind.

[Brent]

Right.

[LeVar Burton]

Circling a role is for people that operate at a much, you know, higher pay grade than. Than.

[Johnny]

So they're considering that. Among other.

[LeVar Burton]

Among other things. Right.

[Brent]

Before I go, I want to circle a roll up.

[LeVar Burton]

Don't we all?

[Brent]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so the hunter.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes.

[Brent]

Steve McQueen. I don't know if it gets any bigger than that, but isn't there Audrey Hepburn somewhere in here, too?

[LeVar Burton]

There is. There is.

[Brent]

What was that?

[LeVar Burton]

I was in love.

[Johnny]

Jesus.

[Brent]

Yeah, that's worthy of a bell.

[LeVar Burton]

I was in. I went to Italy the summer of 78 to receive the Srisi Canzoni Award.

[Brent]

What's that?

[LeVar Burton]

It's like the Italian Emmy.

[Brent]

For Roots.

[LeVar Burton]

For Roots, yeah. And given by canale Cinque, Channel 5, who at the time was being run by Silvio Berlusconi, who eventually became the prime minister. Silvio Berlusconi became prime minister of. Of Italy later on. I still have a watch that. That I got from. From Berlusconi.

[Brent]

Wow.

[Johnny]

I love. I'm getting new stuff, I'm telling you. I didn't know about you.

[LeVar Burton]

Movado watch. Anyway, I was supposed to be there for a week and I ended up staying for three months. I just fell in Love with Italy. It was my first time there and.

[Brent]

And you Learned in that 3 months to speak Italian a little bit. You really. I've heard you, yeah, yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

My accent's pretty good. Your accent, vocabulary, could use some.

[Brent]

It's like six, seven words, but they really sound authentic.

[LeVar Burton]

Sound Italian. Yeah, absolutely. Ciarto. Yeah.

[Johnny]

You are one of the great fast speakers in the history of film and television.

[LeVar Burton]

Thank you. I consider that high praise coming from

[Johnny]

you because I'm always asked about the being on the show together. Star Trek. By the way, what's it like to have to learn all those signs? I said I didn't have to learn all those signs. I was lavar. And Brent got most of the techno battle.

[LeVar Burton]

He had large chunks of it. I had paragraphs with a couple of hard words.

[Johnny]

Your articulation and your. Your eloquence and your choices. And at such a pace, at such an incredible, credible pace.

[Brent]

And he had not even looked at it the night before, which is really incredible.

[Johnny]

You were photographic memory in those days.

[LeVar Burton]

My memory was really, really great. I mean, Brent would not go to sleep.

[Brent]

I couldn't.

[LeVar Burton]

He couldn't go to sleep unless he

[Johnny]

had letter saw him do it.

[LeVar Burton]

Letter perfect.

[Johnny]

It was pretzel sticks and dialogue, Mr. Salty's.

[Brent]

We would have been there all day if. If I had known that stuff.

[LeVar Burton]

But I, I, you know, I. I had a memory that was facile enough to get a good sense of it the night before.

[Johnny]

Right.

[LeVar Burton]

Not necessarily letter perfect, but in the morning, looking at it in the chair. In the chair. And then through, you know, rehearsals. And by the time we started shooting, I was pretty much there.

[Johnny]

Boy, oh, boy. Because I felt the pressure so hard.

[LeVar Burton]

Really.

[Brent]

Oh, I did too.

[Johnny]

Because first of all, Patrick had that.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

Especially in season one. And it's one of the reasons, I believe, that we have a reputation in the business for being such assholes on our set. Because all of us were so well prepared. Nobody was stressing between takes of, oh, my God, I gotta learn.

[Brent]

Right.

[Johnny]

Because we showed up and could roll.

[LeVar Burton]

Is that our reputation.

[Johnny]

Our reputation is that we were rambunctious. I would say.

[Brent]

Well, that we were.

[Johnny]

Yeah.

[Brent]

But the trick to some of that stuff that we had to learn, the biggest trick is saying it out loud. You had to say it out loud to get your mouth and your tongue used to wrapping itself around words.

[Johnny]

And don't you wish writers, when you run into a tough line, had dreaded out loud in the room?

[Brent]

But we had guest stars, really good actors who would do a scene and they'd go up again and again and again and they get so mad at themselves, at the thing. But I knew this last night and they did and they did. But they hadn't said it out loud so their mouths didn't know it.

[LeVar Burton]

What a lot of guest stars didn't understand was that the dialogue, the language that we used in Star Trek was its own thing. Not just the technobabble but I guess the syntax, the heightened syntax, the heightened syntax. It was like learning Shakespeare on a different level.

[Johnny]

That's one of the reasons Berman, Rick Berman, who is a producer on our show and ran the show, essentially was so strict about us not being able to make any changes.

[LeVar Burton]

No improvisation at all.

[Johnny]

Ever?

[LeVar Burton]

No, ever. And if you wanted to change a word or a line, you had to

[Brent]

call, you had to call it in.

[LeVar Burton]

Call it in and get permission.

[Johnny]

I'm going to drop another name or I'm going to have you drop the name. The connection to Star Trek will be revealed in a moment. This was your co star on one of my favorite titles of your of your resume. Dummy Levar, dummy Burton. Not to be confused with the Ron LaFleur story, but that's another story coming up. Ron LaFleur.

[LeVar Burton]

However, in the Ron LaFleur story, I did work with Billy Martin and Billy Martin, yeah. Before that he was managing the Tigers, Norm Cash and Al Kaline also one in a million. The Ron LaFleur story as themselves.

[Johnny]

Yeah, I, I, let's go back to dummy.

[LeVar Burton]

Let's go back to dummy.

[Brent]

Well, why would I ask one thing about the problem. The floor. Did you have to play? You play? I've never seen it. You actually play?

[LeVar Burton]

I do, yeah, I do.

[Brent]

I audition for a movie.

[Johnny]

Oh, not another sad audition story. Before you got here, we heard how Amy Poehler turned him down for a project. Will Arnett and Will Arnett turn him down.

[Brent]

And I said no, but I did. I auditioned for a movie called the very like dummy, I mean Ron laforce story. It was the Pete Gray story. Pete Gray. Pete Gray was a guy problem with the movie.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, not a lot of people familiar with the story.

[Brent]

Well, I'll tell you what I noticed. I know that you know how I know? Nobody knows. I didn't get a bell but Pete Gray was during the war a lot of players went to into the service and so there was World War II. Yeah. And so Bill Veeck who ran the Chicago White Sox.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right.

[Johnny]

Did all kinds of clowns on the field.

[Brent]

Yeah. So he hired Pete Gray who had one arm to pitcher He. Was he a pitcher? I think he was a pitcher.

[Johnny]

That was Jim Abbott.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes. That's who won the Cy Young Awards.

[Brent]

Who?

[Johnny]

Jim Abbott had one.

[LeVar Burton]

One arm.

[Brent]

Yeah, that's right. But in those days, it was a big deal that Pete Gray came in, and so it was the story of Pete Gray. And I was going to play. I was the jerk who gave him, you know, all kinds of grief because he had one arm. And. And really an awful character. But my reading went really well because I can plug into awful character. You know, it's really. It's easy. Yeah, just be myself. And pretty much, I was required. He was an outfielder, and so you're

[Johnny]

required to show your.

[Brent]

So the mad skills. It was casting. I mean, it was directing. Said, look, I really want you for this part, but I got to know if you can you play. And I'm like, of course I can play. And so I had to go out to a field one day. It was me and Sean Penn's brother, Chris. Chris Pen. Yeah, Chris Penn. And we were out there.

[Johnny]

Sean Penn.

[Brent]

Yep.

[Johnny]

The father, Leo Penn, directed me on Barnaby Jones.

[Brent]

Barnaby Jones. There you go, buddy. AB so my.

[Johnny]

That's my big dropping. Name one of them.

[Brent]

So anyway, I'm in the outfield and. And he's hitting me balls. And I played baseball for several years by building first base, so I can't run. And I'd like to see you run. No, no, it's bad.

[Johnny]

Yeah, I've seen you run.

[Brent]

But you want me to run now?

[Johnny]

There's something about you running.

[Brent]

It's not right.

[Johnny]

It's strangely like data.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

It's like this part of the data is fabulous. But some of the other stuff was not so good. Yeah, I always thought that was a choice.

[Brent]

It was. So I hit first. I had to. To. And I hit fine. I hit from both sides of the plate because I'm a lefty, and I could hit right or left.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, that's valuable.

[Brent]

But then when he started to hit balls to me in the outfield.

[Johnny]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brent]

It was just. I caught one. I couldn't believe I caught it, but it was laughable. And. And he told me, well, this ain't going to work out. But he said, I, I. Because you really have to look like a real ball player. And he said, but you know what? Don't worry. I'm gonna cast you in my next film. And who knows? I don't know if Guy ever worked again because I never heard from him again.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, they hired a stunt double for me for some of the baseball. I mean, I could. I could catch, I could run the bases. I learned how to hook slide. I could only do a head first slide. I learned how to hook slide, but I couldn't throw. I did not have a cannon. And Ronnie, he played left field and then center field.

[Brent]

Famous.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, famous. Famous arm. So we shot all of that. Most of the baseball we shot. Before he was paroled to the custody of Billy Martin and the Detroit Tigers, he learned how to play baseball on the inside of Statesville Penitentiary. And so we shot in a prison. And one of the guys that was there, I forget what he was in there for, was a terrific stunt photo double for me. And he had a can.

[Johnny]

Prisoners.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was great.

[Johnny]

So you were shooting in a real prison?

[LeVar Burton]

We shot in a real prison.

[Johnny]

As you do whenever possible. I was trying to lead you towards. Dummy to mention Paul Sorvina.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah. Whom I loved. I love you.

[Johnny]

Remember him when he was on our show?

[LeVar Burton]

I do, yeah.

[Brent]

He played Klingon. He was. He played Worf's brother in some way.

[LeVar Burton]

Was he?

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Was it that? Yeah, I guess so.

[Brent]

He was.

[Johnny]

I remember him slicing garlic in my favorite movie.

[Brent]

In Goodfellas, he told me a story.

[Johnny]

Fascinating act, good fellas and a good guy.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Brent]

Yeah, he actually, Paul was a really fascinating guy because he, he.

[Johnny]

I always felt like he thought Star Trek was beneath him.

[Brent]

Well, did you get that vibe? Yeah, kind of. But he was, he was good and he was, he was very good on the show. He's a good actor. But he, he came to my trailer one day and he said, hey, could I use your phone? And I said, yeah, he was on the phone and then I came in and he said, you know, he just hung up. He says, I'm doing a new show. I'm replacing Raymond Burr in Perry Mason. Because Raymond, the last. Well, Raymond Burr had. Had passed away and Paul was going to. Was replacing him. But he was not playing Perry Mason. He was playing an associate of his or something like that. And he said, he says, yeah, he says, I read the script and he says, the guy, he says, he, he could sing, he was handsome, women loved him, he could cook. He goes, oh my God, it's me.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, clearly he had lovely, lovely voice. Beautiful.

[Brent]

Oh, he was beautiful. He was a professional opera singer. Quit acting for a while to be an opera singer. But yeah, good guy, Paul. And Mira is a wonderful woman too. His daughter Mira. Yeah, she is.

[Johnny]

You're a professional singer?

[Brent]

I have sung professionally in the past. I don't know if I'll ever do that again.

[Johnny]

Really?

[Brent]

I don't know. I haven't sung in years.

[Johnny]

That's ridiculous.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, you know, you do have a great voice.

[Brent]

Well, thank you.

[Johnny]

You didn't show it off on the Reading Rainbow.

[Brent]

I did not intro. Well, that's why I think we should redo it. Yeah, I'd like to do that.

[Johnny]

Yeah, a proper version of that. And then we can cut to him coming in.

[Brent]

Exactly.

[LeVar Burton]

Given the nature of this show, I feel compelled to go back to Mira Sorvino. Just a moment.

[Brent]

Because that's the idea.

[LeVar Burton]

Because I did do a movie called Parallel Lives. It was a Showtime movie. It was one of those experimental movies where there's two versions.

[Brent]

I mean, there's a sequel to it, too.

[LeVar Burton]

Parallel Lives. Parallel Lives was the sequel to a previous effort that was done in very much the same way. Kind of a structure, and everybody improvised a great deal of the dialogue.

[Johnny]

Something we were never allowed to do.

[LeVar Burton]

No, this was a story set at a college reunion and. And featured a huge cast, including Jobeth Williams.

[Brent]

I went to high school with Joe

[LeVar Burton]

Beth, Mira Sorvino, Jenna Rowlands, Ben Gazara, Treat Williams.

[Brent]

Oh, wow.

[LeVar Burton]

Jim Belushi.

[Brent]

Come on.

[LeVar Burton]

He's being judicious.

[Johnny]

That was a choice. That was a comic choice.

[LeVar Burton]

Liza Minnelli.

[Brent]

Oh, wow. Good.

[Johnny]

My second favorite movie.

[Brent]

Are you working with in particular?

[LeVar Burton]

I was. I was the love interest of Ali Sheedy.

[Brent]

Oh, wow, look at that.

[Johnny]

John Hughes star.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes.

[Johnny]

What a great career you've got.

[LeVar Burton]

I recently worked as the love interest of Molly Ringwald in a picture, so.

[Brent]

Well, there you go. I mean, you're going all the way through. All the way through the.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, yeah. Through the Rat Pack or the Brat Pack.

[Brent]

Rat Pack, Yeah. You haven't done anything with. I mean, you haven't had to be the love interest of Judd Nelson ever.

[LeVar Burton]

Not lately, no.

[Brent]

Could happen. Still, you're young. He's young.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah.

[Brent]

Wow. Yeah. You've done a lot of stuff.

[LeVar Burton]

I've been so fortunate and blessed. And my life, as unlikely as it has seemed to me for a long time, my life has intersected with a lot of people that I have admired from afar. Some I got to know pretty well. Others just, you know, close encounters and brief. You know, like, people like George Benson, B.B.

[Brent]

king,

[LeVar Burton]

people that I really.

[Johnny]

What about that great concert you took us into in Vegas?

[LeVar Burton]

Well, Stevie Wonder.

[Brent]

Well, that's an interesting story. Although his bachelor party in Vegas.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes. Oh, that was.

[Johnny]

We haven't heard that story in ages.

[LeVar Burton]

You tell that story.

[Brent]

Well, let me start With.

[Johnny]

It was at the Desert Inn, when it was still the Desert Inn.

[Brent]

It was the Desert Inn Hotel in Vegas. Levar wanted to have his bachelor party.

[Johnny]

This is what the show's about. Here's some dropping names.

[Brent]

Yeah. So let me start with. So I was best man in your first wedding, and

[LeVar Burton]

you were. And the groomsmen were.

[Brent]

The away team. Were the groomsmen.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right.

[Brent]

Jonathan.

[LeVar Burton]

Jonathan Fritz. Michael Dorn.

[Brent]

Dorn.

[LeVar Burton]

Patrick Stewart.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

It was a great wedding.

[LeVar Burton]

Thank you.

[Johnny]

A great reception.

[Brent]

Levar wanted to have the bachelor party in Vegas, so we all booked the Desert Inn. I was in. I was doing a convention in Colorado, in Denver. And you flew in from Denver? I flew in from Denver because. But preceding me to appear in front of the audience at a panel was Francis Coppola. And. Yeah, Francis Ford Coppola. And I'm looking at my watch and I'm going, I gotta go. I gotta get a plane to levar's wedding. I mean, a bachelor party. So somebody went out and they told Francis he had to get off. He was pitching Dracula. And so he came off. And I said, I'm so sorry. I just have this piece. Hey, it's your crowd. It's okay with me.

[Johnny]

Oh, it was a Star Trek convention.

[Brent]

Yeah. And. But it was. It was a Comic Con, I guess, but maybe it was just Star Trek. I'm not sure. So we. I fly to Vegas. And playing that weekend in Vegas at the Desert Inn was, of course, Frank Sinatra. And it was a dream come true that we were all gonna hopefully see. So we went over to see if we get tickets to Sinatra's show that night. And it was completely sold out. And we were like, oh, wow, I wish we could. Anyway, we're hanging out outside the ballroom where he performs, and this guy comes out. I think he was one of the musicians in the band. And he recognized us. He said, oh, my God, what are you guys doing here? Well, levar's bachelor party, and we really wanted to see. He says, hold on, hold on. And he went inside and he came back. He says, the old man wants you to come. There'll be a table for you all.

[LeVar Burton]

And it was like a scene from a movie. They ushered us down to this booth. Yeah, that was like.

[Johnny]

It was like the good fellows.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, it was like the good fellows. They ushered us to this wonderful booth, and there.

[Brent]

And. And we saw Sinatra perform with the.

[LeVar Burton]

And they delivered a bottle.

[Brent]

Champagne at the table. It was like. It was unbelievable.

[Johnny]

And his son was leading the band.

[Brent]

Yeah. Frank Jr. Was. Was conducting, as he did at that point in Sinatra's career.

[Johnny]

And he was a friend of Roddenberries

[Brent]

and he was a friend of the Rod neighbor. Exactly. And this is, you know, Frank Jr. Who, you know, I was just listening to the Sinatra Channel the other night, and it was a whole album of Frank Jr. And I was shocked at how good he was as a singer.

[LeVar Burton]

As a singer, yeah.

[Brent]

He could swing like Frank. His voice is reminiscent of Frank Sr. But it was. It's a little higher and just the bottom's not quite the same, but. But I thought, boy, he's good. He was good. But we go backstage after the show because we were told, you're gonna meet Frank Sinatra afterwards. And we. By the time we got back, he was gone, and. But Frank Jr. Was still there, and he wanted to meet us.

[Johnny]

Boy, did he.

[Brent]

And we all went in and we talked to him for a while, and Frank.

[Johnny]

A while, a while. We watched him take his clothes off and his boots and change.

[Brent]

But he was. Frank was. Was. God love him. He was a kind of a slightly unhappy guy. He was dour. That's fair, you know, because, I mean, you know what? He probably had the most difficult junior attached to his name anyone in history to be. I mean, because the other one I can even compare him to is JFK Jr who managed to kind of overcome being a junior.

[Johnny]

Absolutely.

[LeVar Burton]

I believe he did.

[Brent]

Well, kind of. And, I mean, he had a real. You know, I think he was going to totally do it at some point.

[LeVar Burton]

Right.

[Brent]

But Frank Jr. Was a bit. You know, he was just. He'd had a tough life.

[LeVar Burton]

He was talented and smart.

[Brent]

Very smart.

[LeVar Burton]

But his father was Frank Sinatra.

[Brent]

Right? His dad was Frank Sinatra. So it was me and Jonathan and Dorne and you. And we're all backstage and we come out afterwards, the four of us, and Johnny says, God, he's very dour. He's kind of down. I go, yeah, he was. Really seems very unhappy. And Levar said, I can't believe it. Doran says, hey, nice guy, huh?

[Johnny]

He'll live that. He'll never live that moment.

[Brent]

That is who Michael is.

[LeVar Burton]

That is.

[Brent]

Yeah, our buddy.

[LeVar Burton]

That is Torn.

[Brent]

Anyway, that was an incredible experience.

[Johnny]

That was a great night.

[Brent]

Your. Your bachelor party.

[LeVar Burton]

We had some times. Some good ones, no doubt.

[Johnny]

I have a favorite memory from a con with you that I've never forgotten where we were in Tulsa together. We went to the casino, and maybe we'd had a couple of drinks, maybe we hadn't, But Lavar was hidden. We were at the blackjack table and he's hidden and he's hitting and he's hitting. And then he won $3,000, and he stuck his feet in the bench, in the rung. In the rung of the chair, and stood up and announced to all of Tulsa. And this entire thing.

[Brent]

That's how good the rolls.

[Johnny]

All the white people turned and looked.

[LeVar Burton]

It was clear I was having a good night.

[Johnny]

You were having a good night.

[LeVar Burton]

Having a good night.

[Brent]

Always have a good night at the table. I don't know how that is, but

[Johnny]

he and Dean Devlin.

[Brent]

Dean Devlin, too.

[Johnny]

He knows how to play craps.

[LeVar Burton]

Ah.

[Johnny]

But we had. We had to leave the casino at the right time.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes. Always know when to walk away.

[Brent]

That's the thing.

[LeVar Burton]

That's the thing. That's the thing.

[Brent]

Yeah. I usually know because I'm broke. It's time to walk away.

[LeVar Burton]

You need to really identify the point of departure before you get to broke.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

It used to be a regular thing when we did the Vegas.

[LeVar Burton]

Absolutely.

[Johnny]

We all used to go out.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, absolutely. That's true. After a dinner. Now we're, you know, we're. We want to. We want to go to go to bed.

[Brent]

Exactly.

[Johnny]

Because we have to get up and schmooze the next morning.

[Brent]

Yeah. That's the beauty of this show. You know, I was saying, it's. It's a. It's kind of interactive show with the kids at home.

[LeVar Burton]

This one. Yeah, the one we're doing now.

[Brent]

Yeah. Because, like, kids at home. Yeah. Because when we're, like, telling a story or something and suddenly we dry up and can't think of a word, and the kids at home can fill in the blanks and it becomes.

[Johnny]

They haven't heard of some of the people we've just mentioned.

[Brent]

Exactly.

[Johnny]

We need a younger audience. You have a younger audience.

[LeVar Burton]

I do.

[Johnny]

You have generations of people who.

[LeVar Burton]

I do.

[Johnny]

You have three franchises around which you are identified, for which you are identified, which I think is astounding. And I'm very proud to be your friend and ally. Is there a moment in your day, first of all, is there one of the three that gets the most vibe

[LeVar Burton]

out in public these days? It's definitely Reading Rainbow.

[Johnny]

Right.

[LeVar Burton]

It's Reading Rainbow because of the wide swath of people who, you know, the show was on for 26 years, them

[Johnny]

raised on it, and then their kids. Now.

[LeVar Burton]

That's correct.

[Johnny]

Aware of it.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right.

[Johnny]

Right.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right. When I think about it, when I really look at it, I have determined that, you know, I've been able to Portray the black experience in America from our enslavement to the stars through roots and Star Trek and LeVar. The Reading Rainbow guy is in the middle of that continuum. And that is. That's no small thing to contemplate. I genuinely believe that I know why I'm here, you know, and storytelling and a love of the written word and literature are all a part of that purpose. That purpose and everything I've ever done in the service of living literature and the promotion thereof is in honor of my mom, Irma Jean.

[Johnny]

The best. Another English teacher like my dad.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

I was reminded in the middle of that about the revelation on the. The gates. That's a great story.

[LeVar Burton]

Finding your roots.

[Brent]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Johnny]

Do you see that?

[Brent]

Yeah, I did.

[LeVar Burton]

After, you know, not knowing a lot about my father's side of the family and. And feeling that. Believing that all of my impetus towards education and literacy came from my mom, from Irma, to discover that on my father's side of the family, there are teachers as well. I have ancestors on my father's side of the family who started a school. It was just such a powerful revelation. And what it said to me was that there is no way I could have turned out any other way. Right. That I was destined for this life. And that on what I call a solular level, as opposed to cellular level, this is what I came here to do.

[Brent]

Yeah. No question. And in the midst of all of that.

[Johnny]

No, I was referring to the great, great grandfather.

[LeVar Burton]

Oh.

[Brent]

Ah.

[LeVar Burton]

Well, that was an even larger revelation.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

That I have white ancestry.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

That I have a first cousin, Jeffrey

[Johnny]

Hardy, who you've been connected with.

[LeVar Burton]

Who I have connected with. And we have become very, very close in the last couple of years. And that, I mean, he has taken me to the piece of land, the Braswell farm, which used to be the Braswell Plantation in Whitakers, North Carolina, where my great great grandmother was lived. And it's where she met his great great grandfather, Henry Lewis Dixon. And they had a child. And that child was my great grandmother's son, Willis Ward, my maternal grandfather.

[Johnny]

It's fascinating.

[Brent]

And your cousin Jeffrey. Jeffrey. Was he aware of it before that show?

[LeVar Burton]

Well, he was. Yes, he was. He actually contacted. He contacted me through Letitia, my older sister. He's an amateur genealogist, my cousin Jeffrey. So he had contacted Letitia through one of those DNA services, and Letitia said, I don't know about this guy, but, you know, would you check him out? And I did. And he felt like he was legit, but I couldn't be sure. I said, listen. Well, this was before the Gates show. This was before the Gates show. And I said, listen, can we just put a pin in this? Because I've just been asked to spit in a test tube by the Henry Louis Gates folks. And if you could just be patient until the results come back, I would appreciate it. And after the show, after we taped the reveal and Letitia had come down from Northern California for that, we got on the phone and called our cousin Jeffrey to tell him that he was, in fact, correct, we are related, and we made a promise that we would meet as soon as possible. And now we're genuinely, legitimately a part of one another's lives. Crazy.

[Brent]

It really is.

[LeVar Burton]

It is.

[Johnny]

When you're asked to go out and do your. On the speaking tours, do you have a prompt that you're given or are you hired to encourage whatever you're feeling?

[LeVar Burton]

In the way my speaking engagements work these days, I don't write speeches specific to a request anymore. What I offer as a product is a fireside chat, and the client can choose from whatever aspect of my life and. Or career that suits their needs and the sort of impact they want to have on their audience. And generally, we end up talking about all three.

[Johnny]

So it's an interview.

[LeVar Burton]

It is.

[Brent]

Generally.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right. That's right.

[Johnny]

Sort of like this. Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Without the bell. Yeah.

[Johnny]

Or the familiarity.

[Brent]

Yeah. It's like this. Only funny, right?

[Johnny]

You do funny? Never Cut. Funny.

[LeVar Burton]

Never.

[Johnny]

Never, ever, ever.

[Brent]

Although part of my memory of you before I knew you, my. My admiration for you really came from your work on Pyramid. The.

[LeVar Burton]

You were a Pyramid fan. Yeah. The $25,000 pyramid.

[Brent]

You want some big money for some

[LeVar Burton]

people, I. I did. I. I pride myself on the highest number. Billy Crystal, the shortest amount of time, but I was. I'm number two.

[Johnny]

$170,000.

[LeVar Burton]

I don't. I don't. Well, that. That. The 170. 137,500 was the highest total. That was from the weakest link. 137. 537.

[Brent]

5. That's like $13 now. In today's market.

[LeVar Burton]

In today's market, yeah. But you have a. I love game shows.

[Brent]

You. You have a game show?

[LeVar Burton]

I have a game show, yeah.

[Johnny]

Now, did that come as a result of Jeopardy. Not working out?

[LeVar Burton]

It did.

[Johnny]

And it was a gift from absolutely a higher power.

[LeVar Burton]

In fact, I. I believe that the

[Johnny]

game show is Trivial Pursuit.

[LeVar Burton]

Trivial Pursuit on the cw. I believe that. That my whole desire around Jeopardy. Was in fact to get me to the point where Trivial Pursuit came to me and said, we're turning this IP into a game show, and we don't want anybody else to be our host but you. And. And what Trivial Pursuit has. Has given me that Jeopardy. Never could have done is my own game show.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Alex Trebek.

[Johnny]

Sorry.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Alex Trebek really put his imprint on that show, and everybody knows and feels what that is like. And following in that imprint would have been. Would have not. I never would have been able to do that comfortably. This is my own show, and I get to invent it and have had the opportunity to invent this show in. In my own way. And who produced this? Was. It's the Lionsgate. Yeah, Lionsgate.

[Johnny]

It wasn't Ava DuVernay?

[LeVar Burton]

No, no.

[Johnny]

Didn't she bring you a pitch for another show as well?

[LeVar Burton]

She. She wanted. She wanted to do. Ava DuVernay wanted to do a game show with me, and at the time, I really. It was undeveloped. She just. Let's do something together. And.

[Brent]

But.

[LeVar Burton]

But Trivial Pursuit was bringing me ip. Known ip, and I felt like that was the. That was the way to go.

[Brent]

Yeah. Even better. You shoot the show in London.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes, we do.

[Brent]

Which is fantastic.

[Johnny]

It blows my mind that it's financially easier. More to shoot in London, more cost effective.

[Brent]

They bring. To fly, you know.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes.

[Brent]

They bring American guests to London.

[LeVar Burton]

That's right.

[Brent]

To be the contestants.

[LeVar Burton]

Sufficient enough to. To populate contestants for two shows.

[Johnny]

Right.

[LeVar Burton]

My show and Craig Ferguson doing Scrabble. Their. Their companion.

[Johnny]

He's a great guy.

[LeVar Burton]

Love Craig.

[Johnny]

He's the funniest guy.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes, he is.

[Brent]

Really hot podcast for a while.

[LeVar Burton]

Did he.

[Brent]

Yeah, he asked me to be on it. And what happened?

[LeVar Burton]

What happened?

[Brent]

I. I got sick. No, I couldn't do it. I don't know. I couldn't do it. And then he couldn't do it when I could do it. And you didn't pass on it, did you? Huh? No. No, I did not pass. I love Greg Ferguson. I would love to do his show.

[LeVar Burton]

Here's a getting sick story.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

I was asked to come in and read for a certain director who had a very good career as an actor, and I was intimidated. And instead of going to the meeting, I feigned sickness because I. I didn't know that I could face my hero, Sidney Poitier, and live up to what I felt would be. I don't know, anything close to anyone that he would want to work with.

[Brent]

I've told you. By Sidney Poitiers.

[Johnny]

I know, but I hadn't heard that one. You go now.

[Brent]

Well, I used to live in Beverly Hills, and my next door neighbor, Oliver Schol. No, no, that wasn't the house that burned down, but I was in Beverly Hills, and in the house next door to me was this. You could ring the bell forever on this because the house was owned and occupied for three months out of the year by Leslie Brickus and his wife Evie. Leslie Brickus wrote Goldfinger. He wrote Victor Victoria.

[Johnny]

He wrote Roar. The Grease, Paint, Smell of the Crowd.

[Brent]

Anthony Dooley was his partner for a long time.

[LeVar Burton]

They wrote shows together, which means sending the clowns.

[Brent]

No, no, that's. That's. But anyway, Leslie and Evie lived next door to us, and when he wasn't there, he rented to. When I moved in, Roger Moore was living next door at a certain point, Tommy Lee Jones was living next door. And I got close to all of them. No, but anyway, one night, Leslie. Leslie and Evie invited Lori and myself to go to dinner at his house. And so we went and we were hoping he brought a new chef from France, where he also lived for three months. And so we were hoping it was just Leslie and Evie and Laurie and me, because we knew them and we'd be comfortable. But we walked in and the table was set for six, and we're like, oh, God. So a little while there's a knock at the door, a doorbell rings, and Leslie says, would you. Would you mind answering the door, Brett? And I went to the door, open the door, and Sidney Poitier standing in front of me. That was one of those moments where I thought, I can't believe this. I can't believe I'm breathing this air. I can't believe I'm in this. And he was such a wonderful, wonderful guy. So nice. He. It was the week on the. It was the Academy Awards was. Were coming up in two or three days, and he was being given an honorary Oscar. An honorary Oscar, But. But he had won already, of course, for Lilies of the Field. But he was getting his second. He said, would you mind? So. So, you know, just gentlemanly and kind. Would you mind if I read you the speech that I'm going to do at the Oscars?

[LeVar Burton]

I. I don't think I've ever heard this part of the.

[Brent]

Oh, it was unbelievable. And he read this beautiful speech and. And he said, what do you think?

[Johnny]

And I had it in his pocket.

[Brent]

Yeah. And. And he read it and he says, what do you think? And I went, well, no, I didn't. I didn't say that. We Were, of course, like the man, he could write.

[LeVar Burton]

I mean, not only was he, you

[Brent]

know, he was brilliant. Yeah. But then he said to me, this is how humble this man was. He said, you know, at the time, Cary Grant was doing a one man show, and he would do, you know, an Evening with Cary Grant, and he would come out and talk about his life and do, you know, question and answer and stuff like that. And so Sidney said, I'm thinking about doing what Cary Grant's doing and telling my life story and taking. He says, but do you think anyone will come? You've got to be kidding.

[Johnny]

Come on.

[Brent]

And unfortunately, he never did, but wish he had done.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, wish he had done. Hey, is anybody keeping count of the bells? How do we know?

[Brent]

Yes, we do have a count. We do have a count.

[LeVar Burton]

That'll be. Yeah, yeah.

[Johnny]

I think you're. I think your episode's already leading in the bell count. Well, I'm the first guest so far.

[Brent]

You are far and away my favorite guest.

[Johnny]

Yeah, I feel the same way. And haven't dropped one of the greatest

[Brent]

big names in your oeuvre, the Levar Burton oeuvre. Who is it?

[Johnny]

Barack Obama and Michelle. Come on.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, the Obamas. Yeah. Met them both. Red, Red Children Stories with Michelle. Thank you. On. On a military base.

[Johnny]

The pull factor is, you know what

[Brent]

I think Levar should have to do. Can you name anyone you haven't met?

[LeVar Burton]

Well, I mean, I can name plenty of people that I haven't met, but I can say that I've met a lot of people. Met John Wayne, Carol Burnett, Lucille Ball, Desi Arnaz, I mean, Mary Tyler Moore. And those were all on the same night at the People's Choice Awards, 1977, when the entire cast of Roots was introduced. So the cast of roots, Lou Gossett Jr. John Amos, Ben Vereen, who was an idol of mine. You know my Ben Vereen story, right? When I was a sophomore, when I was in my second year at St. Pius X Seminary outside of Sacramento, California, I took a cross country trip by car with some of the seminarians and one priest, Father Victor McAvoy, who was our driver, Ed teacher, and he also was a religious studies teacher. For me, the point of getting from California to New York was to go to the Imperial Theater and see Ben Vereen in Pippin.

[Johnny]

Pippin.

[LeVar Burton]

We drive across country, we land in New York. This is. Yeah, this is 1970, I remember.

[Johnny]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

1972. I go to the box office, I buy a ticket to see the show. The show is wonderful. I wait Two hours for Ben to come down to the backstage door, and I took a picture. He signed my program. I shook his hand. I said, Mr. Vereen, my name is LeVar Burton. I really hope to work with you one day. That was 1972, and in May of 1976, I met Ben again with the Polaroid picture that we had taken that day together. My life has been kissed by God. You know, I cannot believe the great good fortune and grace that I have been given in this life.

[Brent]

Well, that's sort of what, for me, I'm sure, to a degree for all of us, that one of the reasons I wanted to be in show business, not just because I wanted to express myself in ways that you can't in daily life and play other characters and do that sort of thing, but I want it to be a. I want it to be in the big leagues so I could meet and work with or at least lead you to this podcast, My Heroes. Yeah. And so that's what this podcast finally comes full circle. That's what it's about. And like you and like you, we've all been really lucky to get to rub shoulders with people. Yeah, People.

[Johnny]

And we're grateful.

[Brent]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That's just one of the greatest. But are we worthy? Are we worthy?

[LeVar Burton]

I like to say that. That. That gratitude is the grace that makes God grow in our lives. Can I get a bell for God? I'm just saying,

[Brent]

why not? I mean, you know, I think too bell for God, you know, There we go. Who have you worked with that you would think goes back furthest in show business? Oh, you know, that is. Is like. Like, I'll give you my example.

[LeVar Burton]

Okay.

[Brent]

Probably number one for me is Edward Everett Horton. I worked with Everett Horton.

[LeVar Burton]

Who.

[Brent]

Thank you. Who was, of course, in all the. A lot of the Asteroid Rogers musicals. But he. He goes back to. I think he just missed the silence. But

[LeVar Burton]

did. Did a Tonight show with Johnny Carson. Yeah. And one of the guests was Mae West.

[Brent]

Mae West.

[LeVar Burton]

Oh, my God, I met Mae West.

[Brent]

Well, that's big. Yeah, that's great, because Mae west goes back to theater. She went to jail for one of her shows. They closed it and took her to jail. Yeah. Because it was obscene.

[Johnny]

Was he on the vaudeville just post vaudeville circuit?

[Brent]

It was just post vaudeville. Yeah. Amazing. And I guess the other question would be one that I'm sure you won't answer, nor will anyone I ask this question of, but who's the worst person you ever worked with? Can you say the name?

[LeVar Burton]

I can't.

[Brent]

Yeah. No, I don't think so, But I

[Johnny]

had a legitimate question that I wanted to ask you as a fellow director. Are there things that you stole from other directors that you. And do you have a routine that happens the night before you go into your first day of shooting?

[LeVar Burton]

I've stolen a lot. I stole an action, please from you, which is such an elegant and inclusive way of calling action. Thank you. It has. It has become a signature for me as. As well as it has for you. And. And I'm. I'm grateful. I love that. Action, please. Yeah, action, please.

[Brent]

Have you ever stolen anything from the set? I know one thing in particular.

[Johnny]

Oh, from Star Trek. Do I.

[LeVar Burton]

Do I have to answer. Answer that question.

[Brent]

You don't have to answer it because we. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

I have the visor that I wear every day.

[Johnny]

How about the day when Chooch would come out with that box, Charlie Russo. And the box would open and the visor would come out and Chooch would screw it into levar's temples? There's a good Trek reference. And we watched that happen countless numbers, and you withheld from us the pain and the anxiety that was caused by the fact that your peripheral vision was gone.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

So we would. I mean, you were a mensch about that. And finally, finally convinced them to put the ocular implants out so it could see those gorgeous, gorgeous eyes. I think in Insurrection, where we were up in the hill.

[LeVar Burton]

Six seasons and a movie.

[Johnny]

Seven.

[LeVar Burton]

Seven seasons in a movie later.

[Brent]

Before that, we did a particular thing on Next Generation into the movies, into Picard, which we started in the first season. And we used to crack each other up so much doing this. But whenever we would look over at each other, we would go. You could see it in dozens of episodes, movies. You could cut together a movie of levar and I going.

[Johnny]

It helped the scene. Yeah, it helped us.

[Brent]

The big nod. Exactly.

[Johnny]

I used to have Marina as my secret weapon because she was such a great listener and. And acting partner. And if I was in the editing room and. God, this is painful. What the. Oh, let's see what Marina's doing.

[LeVar Burton]

Cut to Marina.

[Johnny]

Did you have one of those?

[LeVar Burton]

Cut to Marina.

[Johnny]

Boom. What's your first memory of coming to work on Next Gen?

[Brent]

Well, I met Patrick. I didn't know who he was. I thought, oh, my God, this interesting guy, you know, it's going to. I. I already knew levar was going to do the show. I thought that was really cool.

[Johnny]

And you and I had known each other from doing play readings.

[Brent]

We did a play reading. Before that. Yeah. And. And when I. They were saying that they thought you were going to be on the show, and I thought, oh, not him. Yeah. And. But then you got it and you had to adjust. Yeah, I had to.

[Johnny]

It couldn't. You were hoping it was going to be Billy Campbell.

[Brent]

I was hoping for Billy Campbell and I was hoping.

[LeVar Burton]

Who was your.

[Johnny]

Wesley Snipes was up for your part.

[LeVar Burton]

Was that right? Yes.

[Brent]

And, yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Reportedly Reggie Jackson. Wesley.

[Brent]

Wesley Snipes.

[Johnny]

You got Billy Martin and Reggie Jackson into your interview from two different angles about that.

[Brent]

Oh, my God.

[Johnny]

The great feuds of all time.

[LeVar Burton]

Ah.

[Brent]

Wow.

[Johnny]

They threw sheet at each other in the dugout. Is that right? He took him out of the game for not hustling, and Jackson went off on him and he. They threw shit. It was great. It's all.

[Brent]

After all these years, or all those years, we came back together again. All on the Picard series, which is

[LeVar Burton]

really, I think, for me, my most favorite iteration of us.

[Johnny]

I couldn't agree more. I think Marty. Or Marty. Terry Matalis.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes.

[Johnny]

Gets a shout out for not only organizing that, but gathering how important it was to talk to us individually about the 20 years in between. I mean, I think he knew that we were all friends for the whole time, but from the characters.

[LeVar Burton]

We saw the characters evolving over those couple of decades. He did a great job with that. Yeah. I mean, being together again was genuinely one of the highlights of my life.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

I couldn't agree, because we had assumed that that ship had sailed.

[Johnny]

Right.

[Brent]

Yes.

[LeVar Burton]

That was never gonna happen.

[Brent]

Right.

[Johnny]

And it wasn't just a reunion show. It was a show in which the characters had perfect purpose in, you know, trying to bring down Amanda Plummer's character.

[LeVar Burton]

Right.

[Johnny]

That was. I mean, we all had a reason to be there. We all contributed to the. To the story.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

Earlier we said the story was important, remember?

[Brent]

Yeah, story's important. Yeah. And one thing about it, though, it seemed very familiar. It wasn't like, oh, this is so weird to be back together again after all these years.

[Johnny]

What about walking onto the bridge of the ad?

[Brent]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Johnny]

I was with you in Marino in the car. I've told this story at conventions because I had been directing the week before, and I came and we were going. We were called on the set from the makeup trailer, and it was built on a separate set. And I went in early, or I went in ahead of you two, and you came through the door and you saw the bridge and you both felt. Both of you. And then the characters were asked to open the Door on the turbolift and Cavell the same way. And it was such a great memory that clearly that's how important that was to us. And then of course that's how important it was to the characters.

[LeVar Burton]

The characters.

[Johnny]

And it was the same emotional expression. Great moment. Made people cry, that moment.

[LeVar Burton]

One of the things I loved about working on that set was the impact that the set and us being together on that set had had on Patrick because he had been working, you know, so this was the second series he'd done in a row right. Of this show. And he was exhausted that there was no two buts about it. He was dead dog tired.

[Johnny]

And he was glad to have us with him.

[LeVar Burton]

He was glad to have us. I could really. I saw him rejuvenate a little bit.

[Johnny]

Well, he went back into his chair.

[Brent]

Well, nothing was different about the way we behaved with each other. It's absolutely exactly like.

[Johnny]

Nothing was different about the set. The color of the carp carpet and the. And the chair and the angle on the ramp up to Dorn space. I mean everything about it.

[Brent]

Well, you know, people say, well, was it just odd being back together? Well, we see each other all the time, so that wasn't odd at all. But we hadn't seen each other in. In costumes.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah.

[Brent]

In our spaces were fabulous, were great.

[Johnny]

God bless Bob Black.

[Brent]

Something I was going to ask you about stealing. Yeah. Oh my God.

[Johnny]

I was trying to steal mine. And two of them had already gone.

[Brent]

He took one and Marina took one

[Johnny]

and they said, you can't take them. They're a couple thousand.

[Brent]

Who's going to. They wanted you to pay how much for 500 bucks or something?

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah. They didn't offer me an opportunity. I would have paid for it in a heartbeat.

[Brent]

Yeah, well, you know, I sent somebody to my house.

[Johnny]

Pick it up on the.

[LeVar Burton]

Sent somebody to my house.

[Johnny]

I said the same thing. I'll pay for it.

[Brent]

When we finished doing Next Generation, the night we finished, we were all going to meet at a restaurant. Your friend's restaurant.

[LeVar Burton]

Yes.

[Brent]

Yeah. And I asked Mary Howard, who I adore, can I, can I have one of my uniforms? They had 17 uniforms for each of us. And I said, can I have one of my uniforms? And she said no. And I went, why? And she said, because they belong to Paramount, you know. She was rightly so. She said, no, I can't give that to you. And I was, ah, walked into Morton's and. And Jonathan and Gates are both there in their uniforms. They. They'd walked out of the place in their uniforms.

[Johnny]

Is that true?

[Brent]

Yes. Yes. Do you still have it?

[Johnny]

Yeah.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Better to ask for forgiveness.

[Brent]

I got mine from one of the. One of the movies. I think it was Insurrection. I took that uniform and of course I paid for it because it's burned up now, but. Yeah.

[Johnny]

What a pleasure.

[LeVar Burton]

I. There are few things I enjoy more than hanging out with you guys.

[Johnny]

I know. And we get to do it on camera today.

[Brent]

Yeah. Amazing.

[LeVar Burton]

I hope this show is successful beyond your wildest imaginings, sincerely.

[Brent]

Well, you know, if just like 1 out of 10 can be this smooth and you know this.

[LeVar Burton]

I think this has gone very, very nicely.

[Brent]

I feel good about it. Yeah.

[LeVar Burton]

Good content.

[Johnny]

Birdie.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, man. It was a blast dropping names with y'. All.

[Johnny]

I think you have set a high. Baren bar is high.

[LeVar Burton]

I've thrown the gauntlet down. I invite any and all who pretend to the throne to come in and.

[Johnny]

We made the right call here, Brent.

[Brent]

Oh, no doubt.

[Johnny]

We made absolutely the right call.

[Brent]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

Thank you, my friend.

[Brent]

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[LeVar Burton]

Love you guys.

[Brent]

I love you.

[LeVar Burton]

Butterfly in the sky.

[Brent]

Butterfly in the sky.

[LeVar Burton]

I can go twice as high.

[Brent]

I can go twice.

[LeVar Burton]

Take a look.

[Johnny]

Take a look.

[LeVar Burton]

It's in a book. Reading rainbow.

[Brent]

Oh, hey. You're still here.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah.

[Johnny]

The episode's over.

[Brent]

You did it. You made it all the way to the end.

[Johnny]

I mean, you can go now. Really. There. There are other videos.

[Brent]

Yeah, the. Right there on the screen. Helpful little rectangles.

[Johnny]

No one's going to be offended if you. If you leave.

[Brent]

In fact, we encourage it strongly. Yeah. Since you're stuck around, here's a bonus clip. I have seen you since Thanksgiving.

[LeVar Burton]

Right.

[Brent]

I had Thanksgiving dinner. I know. At the Burton's house.

[Johnny]

I heard it was fancy pants.

[Brent]

Unbelievably good filling.

[Johnny]

Beautiful chef.

[Brent]

Well, beautiful.

[Johnny]

I saw the pictures that Mika posted on the table, which was to begin

[Brent]

with Stephanie's incredible chef. Yeah. Couple that with Chef Jet Tila, who was. Who does Thanksgiving with these guys for

[LeVar Burton]

years now they have co created Thanksgiving dinner. Steph does the sides and Jet does the product proteins. And Ali, Jeff's pastry chef.

[Brent]

She's a great.

[LeVar Burton]

She does a lot of the desserts.

[Brent]

Yeah, the dessert was amazing, too. And anyway.

[LeVar Burton]

Yeah, you enjoyed.

[Brent]

Oh, my God. He made a salmon for me that was unbelievable.

[Johnny]

Pescatarian.

[Brent]

Yeah. And he made it just the way I like it, which was. It was such a treat. The whole thing was a treat.

[LeVar Burton]

It was lovely having you at the table.

[Johnny]

Thank you.

[LeVar Burton]

You and your family.

[Brent]

Good to be there. Good to be there.

[LeVar Burton]

You're next year. Jonathan, you and Jeanne.

[Johnny]

I'm already hungry.

[LeVar Burton]

Levartis Robert Martin Burton Jr. No. When I took the name Martin as a Catholic, you get confirmation, you get confirmed and you take on a new name. And for me that was Martin. There was only one. Well, he wasn't even a saint. Martin de Porres. He's a saint now, but he was a blessed. When I was confirmed and being the, you know, the theatrical minded person that I was and still am, I thought it would be cool to change the eye to a Y. I love it.

[Johnny]

And we're talking about Lovartis. Levartis, Lavartis, Robert Martin Burton.

[Brent]

That's it. That's our guy. Here he is.

[Johnny]

Levartis, Robert Martin. That's plenty of names. That's actually could be four first names.

[Brent]

Levar, Lavartis, Levartis,

[Johnny]

Lavartis, Birdie, Ally.

[Brent]

Ally, Martin. I think I'm start calling them Martin.

[Johnny]

I like the why.

[Brent]

Yeah, yeah I do too. Why? Because we love you.

[Johnny]

Take a look.

[Brent]

It's in a book. Reading Rainbow.

[Johnny]

You're never going to live that down.