Wedding Crasher Tales and Hollywood Secrets with Ron Perlman

Summary

---

Dropping Names ...and other things

Episode: “Wedding Crasher Tales and Hollywood Secrets with Ron Perlman”
Date: June 3, 2026
Hosts: Brent Spiner & Jonathan Frakes
Guest: Ron Perlman

---

Episode Overview

This lively episode features actor Ron Perlman joining Brent Spiner and Jonathan Frakes for an open, candid, and frequently hilarious discussion about careers in showbiz, iconic encounters, stage fright, and the ongoing evolution of Hollywood. Expect wedding crashing stories, tales from major film sets, reflections on camaraderie, and an early peek at Perlman’s ambitious new venture, Asylum Studios.
The tone is intimate, irreverent, and nostalgic, with a blend of behind-the-scenes insights and heartfelt industry commentary.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hollywood Name-Dropping & The “Wish List” (00:00–01:32)

• The hosts joke about past and future dream guests, with Perlman humorously doubting access to Leonardo DiCaprio (“The only one you won’t get is Leonardo DiCaprio. We won’t get Leo.” – Perlman, 00:43).
• Brent and Jonathan reminisce about working with “Leo” on The Aviator and Marty Scorsese’s notorious perfectionism on set.

2. Wedding Crashing with Linda Hamilton (02:47–03:44)

• Brent shares a story about unexpectedly crashing a wedding at Linda Hamilton’s house, leading to much amusement.
• “We’d say, no, we’re here for the food. And that’s really what it was.” – Spiner (03:46)

3. Star Trek Nemesis and “Too Old to Be Action Heroes” (04:00–05:27)

• Frakes and Perlman recall filming Star Trek: Nemesis, discussing risky stunts and Patrick Stewart’s attempt to connect with a disinterested director.
• Memorable moment: “Ron swings over and he whispers in my ear, we're too old to be action heroes. Remember this moment.” – Frakes (05:09)
• Perlman admits: “I felt that way when I was 15.” (05:25)
• Chat about befriending a young Tom Hardy and his difficult treatment by the director.

4. Showbiz Connections and Surprising Family Links (07:01–08:56)

• Brent and Ron discover both had family friends named Dorothy Rosen, leading to a humorous, “That’s my mom!” confusion.

5. Hollywood Legends Encounters (08:11–14:24)

• Brent recounts meeting Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.
• Perlman shares a touching moment: “She [Bette Davis] held my hand during the whole interview.” – Perlman (14:04)
• Perlman muses on the changing landscape of fame, lamenting that modern actors might not even recognize such legends.

6. Early Career and International Work (12:00–13:28)

• Perlman explains his breakthrough film, Quest for Fire. He discusses the United Rule One and international acting regulations for Americans working abroad.
• “I was the reason for that legislation.” – Perlman (12:06)

7. Friendship Origins: Goats, Plays, and Good Days (16:01–19:11)

• Frakes and Perlman recall meeting in a 1986 LA play at the Tiffany Theater, where Frakes played a musical comedy goat, and both learned of major career-changing roles on the same day.
• “I just booked the title character in the show Beauty and the Beast for CBS.” – Perlman (17:49)
• “I just signed a seven-season deal to play the second lead on the new Star Trek.” – Frakes (17:59)

8. Stage Fright and Imposter Syndrome (19:55–22:28)

• Perlman details his crippling stage fright after TV success, tracing it to his stint on Broadway’s A Few Good Men.
• “I had a case of stage fright that was so irrational and so out of control and crippling... I think that’s probably the imposter syndrome.” – Perlman (20:04–21:32)
• Brent humorously recounts auditioning (and failing) for the very same production.

9. Reputation, Con Life, and The Power of Cursing (24:12–25:27)

• The topic turns to fan conventions and public perception, especially due to Perlman’s “bad guy with heart” roles.
• Perlman on Hellboy: “Probably 35 Sons and 35 Hellboy. And then... 30 miscellaneous other stuff. A lot of voiceover stuff.” (24:59)
• The hosts cheer about the intelligence of people who curse: “I read a study recently that people who curse a lot are of higher intelligence.” – Perlman (10:53).

10. Working with Marlon Brando (26:22–32:34)

• Perlman describes being starstruck and “vomiting in my mouth” during a tough encounter with Brando on The Island of Dr. Moreau.
• “He made me into this kind of awkward six-year-old pimply kid…” – Perlman (26:26)
• Detailed backstage politics between Brando, the director Frankenheimer, and Perlman.

11. The Wisdom of Age: Not Caring, People-Pleasing, and Professional Generosity (32:57–36:29)

• Perlman talks about the liberating aspect of age: “There is nothing more freeing than not caring what anybody thinks.” (33:33)
• The crew reflects on the burden of people-pleasing and why it helps to treat every guest actor with respect.
• Perlman shares a lesson from Edward James Olmos: “I know how hard it is when you walk into a family. My thing is to make you feel like you're part of your family. You're welcome here.” (36:06–36:29)

12. The Realities of Voice Acting & Iconic Video Games (36:30–39:48)

• Discussion about voice work, “instinctive” acting, and legendary direction.
• Perlman recalls his long stint narrating Fallout, originally for “$40 and a sandwich,” and how the game’s success never translated into big residuals.
• Comic note: “They were very precise about not adding any money to it ever.” – Perlman (39:24)

13. Hellboy and Media’s Sensationalism (40:06–41:40)

• Perlman’s straightforwardness leads to viral moments and tabloid fodder: “You just... say what's on my mind... But then it makes 9,000 outlets. They take you apart and... leave you in a pool of your own urine to die.” (40:37–41:00)
• The group praises Perlman’s honesty and personal Instagram feed.

14. Politics, the Strike, and Asylum Studios (41:45–54:23)

• Perlman discusses his vocal political stance during industry strikes and its supposed impact on his career.
• He details his motivation for launching Asylum Studios: a filmmaker-owned collective inspired by union ideals and a reaction against “corporatized” streaming culture.
• Vision for Asylum Studios: “It’s just going to be a place that... creates a war chest to green light movies and television. It’s called Asylum because it’s only being run by the inmates.” (47:42)
• Radical corporate transparency promised through blockchain technology: “Everyone who works on an Asylum movie will be a part owner, including the guy who cleans DiCaprio’s toilet.” – Perlman (50:21)
• On cinema’s sacredness: “Cinema is too important to be home entertainment only—to watch it in your piss-stain sweats... It’s like asking somebody to go to church in their piss-stain sweats.” (54:23)

15. Closing Reflections: Joy, Legacy, and Purpose (55:05–56:35)

• All three reflect on their drives: “We just want to spread joy. And if you can get paid while you're doing it, that ain't bad either. But whether you get paid or not, we're still going to spread the fucking joy.” – Perlman (56:26)
• A warm thanks and celebration of Ron Perlman’s spirit ends the conversation.

---

Memorable Quotes

• “We’re too old to be action heroes. Remember this moment.”
  — Ron Perlman via Jonathan Frakes (05:09)
• “She [Bette Davis] held my hand during the whole interview.”
  — Ron Perlman (14:04)
• “I had a case of stage fright that was so irrational and so out of control and crippling. Crippling.”
  — Ron Perlman (20:04)
• “There is nothing more freeing than not caring what anybody thinks.”
  — Ron Perlman (33:33)
• “I just want to be me... But then it makes 9,000 outlets. They take you apart and... leave you in a pool of your own urine to die.”
  — Ron Perlman (40:37)
• “It’s called Asylum because it’s only being run by the inmates.”
  — Ron Perlman (47:42)
• “Cinema is too important to be home entertainment only—to watch it in your piss-stain sweats.”
  — Ron Perlman (54:23)
• “We just want to spread joy. And if you can get paid while you're doing it, that ain't bad either. But whether you get paid or not, we're still going to spread the fucking joy.”
  — Ron Perlman (56:26)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 – Hollywood guest wish list and Scorsese anecdotes
• 02:47 – Wedding crashing at Linda Hamilton’s
• 04:00 – Stunt stories on Star Trek: Nemesis
• 07:01 – Brent and Ron’s family “Dorothy Rosen” connection
• 14:04 – Perlman’s Bette Davis story
• 16:01 – Frakes & Perlman’s friendship origin and big career news
• 19:55 – Perlman on stage fright & imposter syndrome
• 26:22 – Story of working with Marlon Brando
• 36:06 – Edward James Olmos as set role model
• 39:01 – The business of Fallout voice work
• 41:45 – Perlman’s political outspokenness
• 47:42 – Founding and vision of Asylum Studios
• 54:23 – Cinema as sacred, the importance of collective experience
• 56:26 – Closing joy and purpose statement

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• The conversation blends nostalgia and candor, balancing celebrity tales with substantive critique of Hollywood’s evolution.
• Perlman is both irreverent and deeply thoughtful, revealing vulnerabilities (stage fright, people-pleasing) and ambitions (industry reform, spreading joy).
• Listeners will appreciate a behind-the-scenes look at the camaraderie among character actors and their passionate (and profane) love for the craft of storytelling.
• The show is equally a space for inside jokes and sharp industry analysis—an authentic, welcoming hangout for entertainment fans and insiders alike.

---

Transcript

[Brent Spiner]

Should I hold your guys YouTube plaque for you, Ari?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Don't call me Ari. Right. I learned your name pretty well and stuck with it.

[Brent Spiner]

You have. You people have asked for her. You've wondered whose backside that was.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Somebody said, is that your daughter Eliza? Because she thought knows Eliza in the business. Could have been work with me wasn't. I said, no, it's our friend Harry, our producer.

[Brent Spiner]

That's Harry.

[Jonathan Frakes]

How do you choose who you get to come and be on the show? Is it just anybody who says yes, you can tell me. No, I have your guys's beautiful wish list.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That we go through. Is Emma Stone on the wish list still? Yes, of course.

[Brent Spiner]

I think we're close to getting her.

[Jonathan Frakes]

What about Harrison Ford?

[Brent Spiner]

Yes, he's still there. Harry. I'd love to have Harry, wouldn't you?

[Ron Perlman]

Oh, I think your only one you

[Brent Spiner]

won't get is Leonardo DiCaprio. We won't get Leo.

[Jonathan Frakes]

He drops. When he tells the story about the Aviator, he uses the name Leo like he knows him.

[Brent Spiner]

Spend three days with Leo.

[Jonathan Frakes]

A 90 second scene.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. How many times do you have to reshoot it? We. We just shot and shot and shot and shot and it. It came together beautifully.

[Jonathan Frakes]

What was that director's name that he was?

[Brent Spiner]

Marty. Marty Scorsese.

[Jonathan Frakes]

He could take as many takes as he wants.

[Brent Spiner]

Right. So I asked between setups, Scorsese was actually very available just to chat with. And so I of course, was like,

[Jonathan Frakes]

tell me you were going to miss the opportunity.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, it's like he was here. Like he is. Ari. Ari.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I knew that was. I knew it was in there. It was set up. It was just a matter of time. How long does he think? Is it a 15 second bit? Is it a 30 second bit?

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, but the timing was pretty good.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That's my point. I love your time. I've never ever denied that. You have great timing.

[Brent Spiner]

So I went over to Marty, as I called him Mr. Scorsese. I said, what was it like working with Jo Jerry on King of Comedy? I love King of Comedy. That's one of his great films. And he said, he's standing there and a woman walks up to him and says, jerry, I don't know if you remember me, but I was an extra on your show when you and Dean were. He said, shut up and go sit down. That's what Jerry was like.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That's charming. What a day this has been.

[Brent Spiner]

What a rare mood I'm in. Well, it's almost like being in love. Got a smile on my face for

[Jonathan Frakes]

the whole human Race.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, it's almost like being in love.

[Jonathan Frakes]

How about we end right there?

[Brent Spiner]

And other things where the whiskey flows and the laughter sings Pull up a seat Join the game of bread and Johnny Potasher.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Ron Perlman. We have a couple of Star Trek connections, Beauty and the Beast. Armin was a regular on Armin Shimmerman.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, and I have to say, Linda lived up the street from me. And

[Jonathan Frakes]

she was on Resident Alien and on Stranger Things.

[Brent Spiner]

She lived right up the street from me. Malibu Fernhill, that street. And so she was having. There was a Mexican restaurant in Malibu that we loved going to. And it closed. And so there was no Mexican restaurant. And then we walk out of the house one day and we see a truck from that very Mexican restaurant is catering a wedding at Linda Hamilton's house. And so we were the wedding crashers. My wife and I just crashed Linda's wedding. And not her wedding, but the one she was throwing. And she was cool about it.

[Ron Perlman]

She was absolutely fine, you know, like, so sweet.

[Brent Spiner]

She is a great woman. I love her.

[Ron Perlman]

Really. Really a wonderful girl.

[Brent Spiner]

Absolutely. And she was as cool as she could be. We happened to know a few people there, but most people would come up to us and say, are you here for the bride or the groom? And we'd say, no, we're here for the food. And that's really what it was.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Here's a story I wanted to remind you of. Ron played my nemesis in Nemesis. And he and I were in a stirrups.

[Brent Spiner]

I remember.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Stunt scene.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

And we had a stunt double to do a lot of it, but there was a lot of it that he and I were doing. And we were up 30ft in the air. Right on those things where your balls are getting squished inside the suit. And we're on picks from the side and. And the director, who we'll talk about in a minute, who, by the way, Patrick and I and all the cast members offered to have lunch with them to talk about because we'd done 182 episodes and three movies together. I said, is there anything we can do to help you? To let you know how he was not interested in talking to us at all about how we rolled. Talk about a family. Yeah, because we rolled as a family. And you and I knew each other already. So we were up on whatever stage we were on 18, I think, and we'd done a take and we were swinging and trying to do all as much of our shit as we could. And we're hanging like this and we're swinging against the green screen, hanging from the fucking ceiling and looking down. And that Stuart Baird and whoever was the stunt coordinator and the DP are talking and Perlman like, what the fuck, you guys? Hey, what about us? And Ron swings over and he whispers in my ear, we're too old to be action heroes. Remember this moment. We are too old to be action heroes. And it was the truth.

[Ron Perlman]

I felt that way when I was 15.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I gave up being my own stunts when the danger let that guy have a real sword and cut my eye open.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. Did you talk at all with Tom Hardy on that movie?

[Ron Perlman]

We were buds.

[Brent Spiner]

Were you?

[Ron Perlman]

He was the sweetest.

[Brent Spiner]

Do you still know him? Do you ever. Have you.

[Ron Perlman]

I've reached out to him a few times because I had a production company and you know, I invited him to read a couple of the scripts I was producing. He used to answer my emails and he doesn't anymore. So I just. Okay.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That was his breakout.

[Ron Perlman]

He was so sweet and so talk about deferential and, you know, so appreciated our time together. We bonded.

[Brent Spiner]

He was not treated very well by the director.

[Ron Perlman]

I mean, he wasn't a director, he was a editor that the studio owed a favor to. That's true. And he said, you want to pay me back, let me direct a movie.

[Brent Spiner]

That's right.

[Ron Perlman]

So they gave him. They gave.

[Brent Spiner]

He was a world class editor, by the way. I mean, he did some great films.

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah. That's why the studio owed him because he saved a lot of their Mission Impossibles and yeah, they would bring him in when they had a turkey and he would recut it and turn it into watchable.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

So he was very talented editor, but he was not a director. And he was not. He had no people skills whatsoever and

[Jonathan Frakes]

he wanted no part of. Of anything we had to offer him. That. That's what blew my mind.

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah, well, he's not a filmmaker.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

That attitude, like anybody can do this. Oh, you know, let's just give it to that guy.

[Brent Spiner]

I have a connection to you that is really weird.

[Ron Perlman]

Most of the connections to me.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

Fit into that.

[Brent Spiner]

You're just. You're not going to see coming at all. But I didn't either until I. I read a few things about you. But my, my mother, who by the way, is still alive. Sylvia, 99 and 95 months. Yeah. Her best friend from childhood growing up. I knew her my whole life until she passed away. Her best friend was Dorothy Rosen.

[Ron Perlman]

Holy. Yeah, that's my mom.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. Not amazing. And it's my aunt Dorothy. Dorothy Rosen. And I read that your mother's name was Dorothy Rosen.

[Ron Perlman]

Oh, wait a minute. It wasn't my mother. It was a different Dorothy Rosen.

[Brent Spiner]

Your mother was my Aunt Dorothy as well. But no, she never mentioned you. Yeah, no, she didn't care for me. No, it was obviously different because I grew up in Houston, Texas.

[Ron Perlman]

There are Rosens in Houston, Texas.

[Brent Spiner]

The Rosens of Houston, Texas.

[Ron Perlman]

The Rosens of Houston.

[Brent Spiner]

Aunt Dorothy. And oddly, one time.

[Ron Perlman]

Like an acrobatic act.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, exactly. One time I met Elizabeth Taylor. That's a pretty good one. I met Elizabeth Taylor backstage at Private. She was doing Private Lives with Richard Barton. I met Richard as well. And Holy.

[Ron Perlman]

This guy.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, that's the thing. All we do is open the valve a little bit with. Do we get to Judy Garland? What? Yes.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, I had a little thing with Judy.

[Jonathan Frakes]

What? Yeah.

[Brent Spiner]

I was shocked at how much Elizabeth Taylor looked like my Aunt Dorothy.

[Ron Perlman]

Dorothy Rosen.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, Dorothy Rosen. There you go. Where were the Rosens from?

[Ron Perlman]

Poland.

[Brent Spiner]

Poland?

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah. The Jewish neighborhood in Poland.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. No doubt.

[Ron Perlman]

I think it might have been Krakow.

[Brent Spiner]

My folks go back to Ukraine. And Vilnius. Beautiful city in Lithuania.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, that's where Jeannie's from.

[Ron Perlman]

She's from Vilnius.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Well, her grandparents are both from Vilnius.

[Ron Perlman]

Wow.

[Jonathan Frakes]

We went into tour before the wall came down and the tour guide, Genie said, are there any deltufuses or petritises around? The woman rolls her eyes, says, that's like Smith and Jones over here. Ilnis is a beautiful city.

[Brent Spiner]

I want to go there.

[Jonathan Frakes]

You got a big TV studio there. Did you work there too?

[Ron Perlman]

Never worked in Vilnius. I worked in Romania. I worked in Kiev. Oh, you did?

[Brent Spiner]

Which was beautiful, right?

[Ron Perlman]

Beautiful.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

And the Beatles were right. Ukraine girls really knock me out.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yes.

[Ron Perlman]

They leave the west behind.

[Brent Spiner]

Oh, there you go.

[Ron Perlman]

The gene pool there. Is the genie pool there.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I could see inside your memory bank with the eyes.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, I have to say, my grandmother was a fine looking woman.

[Ron Perlman]

I'll bet.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, she really was quite beautiful in her youth.

[Ron Perlman]

And there's something about the Kiev women, the gene pool there. The most mind blowingly beautiful women I've condensed. I mean, there's beautiful women everywhere.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

But in Ukraine, it's like it's a given.

[Brent Spiner]

You have a huge career which, you know, not only, I'm sure surprises you, it shocks me actually, as well as. Yeah. No, Ron, you've done so much.

[Ron Perlman]

You have pretty high standards. You look at a guy like me and go, what the fuck is that? Nobody that about.

[Brent Spiner]

Exactly.

[Ron Perlman]

Can I curse on the show?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yes. By all means encouraged. Our teaser, I said to Brett, we've been together for 40 years and I heard back from two or three people. Frank, you couldn't even get through a 30 second teaser without dropping the F bomb. It's the way we talk.

[Ron Perlman]

I read a study recently that people who curse a lot are of higher intelligence.

[Brent Spiner]

I've heard the same thing.

[Jonathan Frakes]

As have I.

[Ron Perlman]

We both probably follow the same Instagram account.

[Brent Spiner]

I'm sure it is. Is it yours?

[Ron Perlman]

Because I get all my news on Instagram.

[Brent Spiner]

Totally.

[Jonathan Frakes]

You can believe it.

[Ron Perlman]

Culture on my news, all my sports. What else do you need?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, you got your dog stuff or anything else?

[Ron Perlman]

I go to the deli.

[Brent Spiner]

Your life is good.

[Ron Perlman]

Do you know how.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Do you know how Ron and I. Oh, yeah, we're started.

[Ron Perlman]

Because this. This is some bon mo.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, we're rolling, man.

[Ron Perlman]

You know what I mean?

[Brent Spiner]

I do.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Ron and I did a play.

[Ron Perlman]

You did, Right. Why? Are you correct?

[Brent Spiner]

No, I'm not. I'm. I'm mimicking you. Exactly.

[Jonathan Frakes]

If anybody can speak French. Didn't you work with a lot of French? Was. I know a director.

[Ron Perlman]

Think that with all the French I worked with, I would know a word or two in French, but. Well, I can't say bon mon.

[Brent Spiner]

Yes.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Better than.

[Ron Perlman]

Better than the Jews of Houston and get off my toe. Wait a minute, that was English.

[Brent Spiner]

You've worked everywhere. You've worked all over the world. How do you do that? And come on. Well, you know what?

[Ron Perlman]

I saw United Rule 1. What is that?

[Brent Spiner]

Where you're allowed to.

[Jonathan Frakes]

You're allowed to work.

[Ron Perlman]

SAG doesn't say. Yeah, SAG invented. I think it's called Rule one or something like that, where if you're an American actor and they hire you for a foreign production, they have to conform to all of regulations. Yeah, I was the reason for that. Is that right? Legislation. Because I kept having to go to SAG and saying, you know, I'm doing this movie in Mexico, I'm doing this movie in France, I'm doing this movie in Italy, you know, well, even the

[Jonathan Frakes]

big movies, even Quest for Fire and all that business, it was.

[Ron Perlman]

I got my. I got hired to do my first movie in 1979, which was Quest for Fire. And then the actors went on strike for four months. And it just turned out that it was a French director, multinational production gonna be produced and released by Fox, but so many different other countries were involved. And it just turned out that the three leads, the four leads, happened to be American actors, which is why this

[Jonathan Frakes]

is you and Everett McGill.

[Ron Perlman]

Me, Everett McGill and Lemire El Khadi.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

And Ray Dawn. Sean.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Oh, there we go. I give one favorite McGill because I wanted to get his part in Equity.

[Ron Perlman]

Amir get a bell.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I guess he should and did.

[Ron Perlman]

Ever get one?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Brent Spiner]

Ever got one?

[Jonathan Frakes]

He got two.

[Ron Perlman]

He got two. Where's Ray Dawns then?

[Brent Spiner]

Had one?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah. One more.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

What a cast.

[Ron Perlman]

Tony Curtis was not in the movie.

[Brent Spiner]

Did you ever work with Tony Curtis?

[Ron Perlman]

No. No. Oh, boy.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Look at that face.

[Ron Perlman]

Well, I met him. The only time I ever was in his presence was at Nikki Blair's because him and Nikki came out to Hollywood together.

[Brent Spiner]

Is that right? Well, I know Tony and Joe Franklin were in high school together.

[Ron Perlman]

Oh, is that right?

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Remember the Joe Franklin show?

[Ron Perlman]

Of course you do. I was on the Joe Franklin Show.

[Brent Spiner]

Come on. Were you?

[Ron Perlman]

I was on the Joe Franklin when

[Jonathan Frakes]

you were still in New York.

[Ron Perlman]

You know who was on the Joe Franklin Show? Get ready with the fucking bell here, pal. Bette Davis.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That's the kind of drop we're looking for.

[Ron Perlman]

And I. She and I were sitting on a couch. She came up to here. She was. She was very close to her, you know, her last moments on earth. Very old, very frail and very small. And she held my hand during the whole interview.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I love this story.

[Ron Perlman]

If I said Bette Davis to Timothy fucking Chalamet, do you think he'd know what the fuck I was talking about? Only the greatest female actor other than Meryl, who ever graced the screen. Timothy Chalamet didn't even get a bell. That's.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I didn't even. I didn't even reach.

[Ron Perlman]

I love you for that.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I'm reading the Cameron interviews with Wild Billy Wiser.

[Brent Spiner]

That's a great book. I'm reading Joan Crawford right now, which I'm sure she'll.

[Ron Perlman]

Cameron Crowe.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Have you read that book?

[Ron Perlman]

I have not read the book. I thought there was a live interview, though.

[Jonathan Frakes]

It's based on a live interview and it's got pictures. He talks about Lemon being the. You know, he's worked with Jack Lemmon. You work with Jack Lemmon?

[Ron Perlman]

I've never worked with Jack Lemmon.

[Jonathan Frakes]

He worked with Walter Matthau. You work with Walter Mathau?

[Brent Spiner]

Walter and Jack in the same.

[Ron Perlman]

On which picture?

[Brent Spiner]

It was a movie called out to Sea and it was their second to last film. They did one more Odd Couple after Out to Sea and it was Walter and Jack and Donald o' Connor and Elaine Stritch and Gloria de Haven, who, I guarantee you Timothy Chalamet doesn't know Gloria De Haven. And I'm not sure you do even. Which. You know her. Okay.

[Ron Perlman]

We dated a couple of times.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. She was married to John Payne, by the way.

[Ron Perlman]

We never knew. We dated.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. Yes, he knew.

[Ron Perlman]

We were under the radar. We were stealthy.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, tell them. You were going to ask about where you guys met, which is. I think we did a play at

[Jonathan Frakes]

the Tiffany Theater on Sunset, which is now gone. It was called My Life and Art. I played.

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

A farm animal.

[Brent Spiner]

You played a farm animal?

[Ron Perlman]

Particularly of the goat variety.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I played a goat.

[Ron Perlman]

And it was before the. The term goat meant.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, it was.

[Ron Perlman]

It was just a goat. It was not the greatest of all time goats.

[Jonathan Frakes]

No. It was a goat who wanted to be a musical comedy singer, as I recall.

[Ron Perlman]

The goat did.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah. The farmer believed that the goat had talent, as I recall. It's all. It's all a blur.

[Ron Perlman]

There's something about the King and I in there, right? Didn't you play.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I think that's.

[Ron Perlman]

You play the King and. The King and I in Summer.

[Brent Spiner]

King and I and who? You play, Ron?

[Ron Perlman]

I played this Russian writer. Director.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, writer.

[Ron Perlman]

Director, but on the skids. Like, you know, more of an aspiring. And I think I. I wrote the play.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yes.

[Ron Perlman]

That I needed him to get attached to so I could get my financing.

[Brent Spiner]

Where'd you guys.

[Ron Perlman]

This was.

[Jonathan Frakes]

This was the Tiffany.

[Ron Perlman]

Cutting edge.

[Jonathan Frakes]

This was in 1986, and we were both trying to rekindle our alleged careers.

[Ron Perlman]

I had basically just gotten off the boat. I moved from New York. That was one of the first gigs I did after having moved from New York to here.

[Jonathan Frakes]

So we're in rehearsal, I think, or maybe during performances, meeting up in the dressing room. We became kind of fast friends. On Wednesday, Ron comes in. I just got a gig.

[Ron Perlman]

No, that's not how it went.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Okay, you tell the story.

[Ron Perlman]

Can I fuck up the story better than you? Please.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That's why you're here.

[Ron Perlman]

But we became fast friends to the point where I couldn't wait to get to the theater to see Jonathan. I enjoyed his company so much. And the fact that we were both in this really weird play where he's playing a goat and I'm playing a Russian wannabe meant that we were both worshipping the same muses, and they were not mainstream muses at all. So I walk in one day, and Jonathan's already there. He's on stage doing some kind of stretching warmup shit. And he looks at me and goes, ooh, you look happy. I go, I'm really happy. I'm in A really good mood. And I said, you look kind of happy too. He said, oh, I just had one of the best days of my life. I said, well, who's going to go first? He says, you go first, Ron. So I said, I just booked the title character in the show Beauty and the Beast for cbs. He goes, that's a good day. How about you? He said, I just. I just signed a seven season deal to play the second lead on the new Star Trek.

[Brent Spiner]

What a day.

[Ron Perlman]

And it happened at the same time. We both, we both had just come from the network and found out we got the job. And I said, that's a good day.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

And then we went and totally up this show that night.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Wow.

[Brent Spiner]

Was anyone else in the show who got a major series that day besides the two of you?

[Ron Perlman]

Did there need to be and.

[Brent Spiner]

Not really. But was anybody in the show who, who you've seen since or have heard of since?

[Ron Perlman]

No, this was a play for. For obscure.

[Jonathan Frakes]

This was an off off Broadway would have qualified the.

[Brent Spiner]

Tiffany was as good as you could get in LA at the time. I mean, practically tough.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

LA stuff, LA is not a theater town.

[Brent Spiner]

No.

[Ron Perlman]

Which is I always found.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Absurd.

[Ron Perlman]

Absurd.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Because it's the same way.

[Ron Perlman]

It has the greatest talent pool.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

Or as good a talent pool as any city in the world.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Do you aspire to do any more plays?

[Ron Perlman]

I have to do one more. I have to do one more to conquer the thing that happened to me the last time I tried to do a play.

[Brent Spiner]

What was that?

[Ron Perlman]

Stage fright. You. I had a case of stage fright that was so irrational and so out of control and crippling. Crippling. I mean, they literally had to push me. And I heard stories about, you know, Olivier went through this.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

Ian late. Ian Holm went home, went through it and Olivier. Yeah, Larry.

[Brent Spiner]

Larry.

[Ron Perlman]

It was such an aberration, considering the fact that my earliest relationship with acting was on the stage. And back in the day before when it was just stage, I was so free on the stage I could actually get naked on the stage. I just felt really free and in flow state and all the things you. And then I do this TV show called Beauty and the Beast. Getting back to that. And when it's over with, I get invited to do a play and I have this stage fright and I couldn't figure out. I mean, the only, the only thing I can figure it out is like, okay, now you've been in a mainstream situation, like primetime TV show cbs. Now all of a sudden you have set yourself up for the imposter syndrome. Oh, enough. People are now aware of you as an actor. You're no longer obscure. So everything you do is going to show that you have no talent. That's what the imposter syndrome is. And I think that that's probably. Yeah, this is the first time I'm actually grappling with. With the reasoning behind it.

[Brent Spiner]

What was the play?

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah. A Few Good Men.

[Brent Spiner]

Oh, it was in New York.

[Ron Perlman]

I replaced Stephen Lang in New York. On Broadway.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. I auditioned for that production.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Now, wait, another show you did not get?

[Brent Spiner]

Are you fucking kidding me? Worse. I auditioned for that production. I came back. My. My agent at the time was Monty Silver. You remember Monty?

[Ron Perlman]

Of course I remember.

[Brent Spiner]

And Monty called me and I said, how did you get any response? He said, yeah. They said you were lousy. And that was.

[Ron Perlman]

That was the thing about all Monty, he just cut to the chase.

[Brent Spiner]

He really did. I said, well, was that the very word they used? He said, the very word they used. You were lousy. So, needless to say, I did not get that play.

[Ron Perlman]

Tom Hulse and Steve Lang were the first. Were the Jessup and the Tom Cruise character. Yeah, they opened the play, and then six months into it, they both left. Tom left before Stephen, so Tim Busfield placed.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Boy, oh, boy. He just got canceled. Let's be frank.

[Ron Perlman]

Huh?

[Jonathan Frakes]

He had it coming.

[Ron Perlman]

Really? Oh.

[Jonathan Frakes]

He directed on a show that I was directing on and was inappropriate with people that I really cared about.

[Brent Spiner]

Wow.

[Jonathan Frakes]

How about that?

[Brent Spiner]

Well, that. That came full circle, didn't it?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

We never maintained any kind of relationship, so I haven't seen him since we did A few good men, 1991.

[Brent Spiner]

I was gonna ask you if you'd seen have you seen Sentimental Value?

[Ron Perlman]

No, it's.

[Jonathan Frakes]

The Cersei said it's the best movie of the year.

[Brent Spiner]

It's really good. But there's. The opening scene will go right to your heart, because the opening scene is an actress with such bad stage fright that there is nothing they can do to convince her to get on stage. She's begging them, please. I can't. I can't. And. And it's. It's a terrifying scene. But you. You'll relate.

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah, well, that's the Stellan Skars guard one, which he just won. He won. He won a big award last year. Superb in it. He's such a class act.

[Brent Spiner]

He is. But this is, like, best brawl he's ever had. I mean, he's just so. So subtle and calm and.

[Ron Perlman]

And he's doing all this wonderful press for It. So he's revealing. I've only known the actor still in Skarsgard. Now I'm getting to know the man. He's. He's such a sweet, delightfully witty.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

Got a kind of a devilish glint in his eye.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I bet that's what people feel about you if they only know you from your work. I mean one of the things that. I mean you're famous for these parts in which you're. I think about Sons of Anarchy. What's that cast name?

[Ron Perlman]

Clay Morrow.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Clay Morrow. He was a badass, but he had this. He always felt his heart. Allegedly.

[Ron Perlman]

Interesting.

[Jonathan Frakes]

But I always. I knew you from the heart out to the bad guy. But don't you think that's a perception of you? That's probably true that because of some of the characters you play where you've been terrifying that people are. Oh, I'm so surprised. He's so smart and are so articulate and so kind. He's so gentle and has all these. You get that at the cons. What's your vibe at the cons?

[Ron Perlman]

It's probably Hellboy. 35 sons and 35 Hellboy. And then. What is that, 70?

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

And then 30. Miscellaneous other stuff. A lot of voiceover stuff. A lot of video games.

[Brent Spiner]

Beauty and the Beast. Do they hurt people?

[Ron Perlman]

Every once in a while. But that's maybe 1% I'll sound of it.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Is it true that you were on Ryan's Hope?

[Ron Perlman]

Yes.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Were you a recurring regular? Were you original?

[Ron Perlman]

It was a one shot deal.

[Jonathan Frakes]

One day only.

[Ron Perlman]

Maybe two days.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Did you work with the great Kate Mulgrew?

[Ron Perlman]

I got to know Kate.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Hold on, captain.

[Ron Perlman]

But no, I didn't work with Kate on. On my one day on Ryan's Hope. That was the first on camera job I ever did. My one day on Ryan.

[Jonathan Frakes]

So I was on the Doctors in New York said same era with Katherine Harold who came up earlier who was then replaced by Kathleen Turner who replaced Lauren White in a play I was doing when I was going out with Lauren.

[Ron Perlman]

That's Bells.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, bells. Bells.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Katherine Harold was married to Lawrence o'.

[Ron Perlman]

Donnell. Is that right?

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. Great. Well, I just want to ask Ron to give me a name that you have been in a room with or worked with that you just couldn't not believe you were standing in the same space as that person. And I know it's happened several times but.

[Ron Perlman]

Well, Brando.

[Brent Spiner]

Okay, that'll do. Hit that. Boom.

[Ron Perlman]

He made me lose my. He made me. He made me into this kind of awkward six year old Pimply kid that. That had no confidence whatsoever.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

What was the context?

[Ron Perlman]

We're doing a little Diddy called the islands of Dr. Moreau in far North Queensland, Australia, mate.

[Brent Spiner]

With Brando and Val Kilmer, by the way.

[Ron Perlman]

Yeah. And David Thewless.

[Brent Spiner]

And David Thewlis.

[Ron Perlman]

Wow. And Faruza Balk.

[Brent Spiner]

No, Faruza Balk. Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

So Brando, we got off on the worst possible foot. He took an immediate dislike to me, H. And I've replayed the tape incessantly because I'm like most actors. He was. There's everybody else in. There's him. He's in a class all by himself. And most of us who said yes to the movie only did it because, you know, we got a shot at being in his presence. That was it for me. I just wanted to be in his presence. I wanted to study him. I wanted to see if I could get some insight into where the genius came from, where this thing, this gear that he had as an actor that no one else has ever come close to, no one has ever come close to. And, you know, even though Montgomery Cliff is tied with him for that same type of genius, Brandos was mixed with this other shit, know, the bad boy, the. The. The slob who was, you know, the smartest guy in the room.

[Brent Spiner]

And clearly you wanted him to like you.

[Ron Perlman]

I'm only supposed to be in one sequence with him in the island of Dr. Moreau. And it's. It's. You know, the com. It's a community of. It's. It's. It's about vivisection. It's about taking animals and humans and. And creating a new race. That's H.G. wells conceit. Right? And so the community has this. The. These rules where they're always being reminded of the madness in them, not the beast in them. And I play the sayer of the law, and I have this incantation straight out of it. She wills, thou will not walk on all fours. That is the law. That will not. Thou will not slurp, but sip. That is the law. And it's this, like, eight or 10 little items, and it's straight out of H.G. wells. So everybody who plays the say of the Law, and there's been like, four movies of it, now says this shit. So we assemble to do one of. One of. One of the members of the community is on trial, and Moreau is going to play the judge. And I'm standing to his left playing the sayer of the law. And I have my incantation to start the kind of ceremony. And we go for the very first take, and I do my thing, and we get finished with it. And Frankenheimer, the director, Jesus, comes up and says, okay, we're gonna come in for your coverage now, Marlon. And we. This was a really big crane shot which started behind our heads and then went up to this crowd of 200 extras and then back down around, and then ended up in a close up of me saying this incantation then and then over to Marlon. So it was a very complicated shot, and it took. It took the better part of a day. And the fact that Frankenheimer wanted to come in for Marlin's close up right after that was odd. Even Brando thought it was odd. So Brenna says, what are you doing, John? Why are you doing my coverage? He says, well, that's just the way I want to do it, Marlon. And he says, well, get the extras into the shade, because we're in far North Queensland. There's no ozone layer. That's the part of the world that has no ozone. And marlin is like this climate free. Get them in the shade and give them a coke. And all right, we'll do my close up and get rid of this guy. And he points to me, oh, no. So now they started a fight, Frankenheimer and Brando. He says, I'm not gonna get rid of the extras, and I'm not going to get rid of Ron Perlman. And Brando says, john, take the extras. You doing a close up on me, right? And Frankenstein says, yes, I'm doing clothes reviews. Well, get the extras into a barn. Give him a coke. I'll pay for it, okay? And get rid of this fucking guy. And so Frankenheimer says, I don't want to release the extras. And Brando is wearing these huge sunglasses. He says, you think you're gonna see them in a reflection of my glasses, don't you? He goes, yes, Marlon, that's exactly the shot I'm gonna make. He goes, you'll never see them, John. And Frankenheimer says, how can you guarantee that? He says, because I'm gonna play the whole thing like this. He says, all right, I'll get rid of the extras. But Ron Perlman stays.

[Brent Spiner]

He says,

[Ron Perlman]

why are you going against me? What are you, a Nazi? And Frankenheim says, I am not a Nazi. He says, did you ever see a movie called Montgomery Clift and Dean Martin, the Young Lions? Yeah. He said, did you ever see a movie called the Young Lions? He said, yes. Edmund Goulding directed that. You were Fantastic in that, as the German officer, he says, well, I know Nazis, and you're a fucking Nazi. John, get rid of this guy. And Frankenheimer says, if you give me a reason why you want to get rid of him, you're playing your entire scene off of him. He says, you. Yeah, but the shit he's saying is so stupid. And his delivery is so, like, weird.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Oh, my brother.

[Ron Perlman]

And I'm like, now I'm vomiting in my mouth.

[Brent Spiner]

Oh, my God.

[Ron Perlman]

Like, I've come 19,000 miles to meet this guy.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Exactly.

[Ron Perlman]

And he thinks I'm this big fucking dumb Jew. There's not very many good things about becoming an old man over becoming old at all.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

You can probably count all the good things on one finger, and that boils down to one thing. You just don't give a shit anymore about anything or anybody or what they think. Like, right now, yeah, I'm talking to you, but I'm shitting my pants, and I'm not going to apologize. Nobody knows if every. If the. If this. If it starts to go, what the fuck happened? I'll just keep right on going.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

Because old people just don't give a fuck anymore what anybody thinks. That's pretty liberating for a guy like me who was obsessed with what everybody thought.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

Most of my life.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Doesn't you think it makes you a better actor, though?

[Ron Perlman]

It makes you better everything. Yeah. Unfortunately, you can't walk anymore. You're hunched over. You know, you're peeing four times, you know, in an hour. But in terms of body, the release

[Jonathan Frakes]

of not giving a.

[Ron Perlman]

In terms of, like. There is nothing more freeing than not caring what anybody thinks. Like, you can make a faux paw. I used to make a faux paw, like, in a conversation, and I would be up for a week.

[Brent Spiner]

Like, a bad day on the set doesn't really mess with your head.

[Ron Perlman]

No, no. It's all just like, hey, whatever. That just. That just happened. Yeah, let's move on.

[Jonathan Frakes]

That's so healthy.

[Ron Perlman]

Good.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, I'm learning to do that. Let the water go under the bridge. Because I have the very similar. I'm even more of a people pleaser than either of you, and it's. It's exhausting.

[Ron Perlman]

I don't know if anybody ever clocked me as that. I definitely never clocked you as that. We hide it well, but it's. It's insane. It's really. When you're a people pleaser, it is a burden. It's like a burden that you're carrying

[Jonathan Frakes]

around with you but what I was saying about you is that you're now in a position for better or for worse. And whether you like it or not, you are one of the heroes. And you are somebody who's happy to be on the set with, and you're a big deal. And I. And the respect that you show other actors is kind of legendary, that you have a real. And we did the same thing with. I mean, we weren't, as people guessed it, on our show. We tried to treat everybody the way that. Because, you know, when you're a guest star on a fucking show, sometimes the actor, the star of the show, never even the. Says hello to you and all that business, you know, you do the opposite. And we tried to do the same thing. And it changes people's impressions and it's easier.

[Ron Perlman]

I did a guest shot on Miami Vice. You talk about learning how lonely a guest, a guest star can be walking into a family that's already got its own vibe and rhythm and. And it's a family and shit. And then one of them is a complete fucking dickhead and makes everybody know how unimportant they are compared to him. And then there's Edward James, almost the opposite, who had lunch with me every single day I was on the show, hung out with me offset while they were lighting. We had great conversations. And I said to him, you know, I've never.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Wait a minute. Edward James, almost.

[Ron Perlman]

I've never met anyone as welcoming onto it. He said. And he said, I know how hard it is when you walk into a family. And my thing is to make you feel like you're part of your family. You're welcome here. And that changed everything for me. From that point on, every job I had where I was a regular, I

[Brent Spiner]

think we tried to do that.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, I think we did, too. What do you change when you do a voice gig? Anything you do feel broader, bigger, grateful that you don't have to memorize the

[Brent Spiner]

lines, that you can still wear your pajamas.

[Ron Perlman]

I mean, I like instinctive. Like, you look at the part and you get it and you give the performance. And voiceover acting is. Is tailor made for that approach. You look at the part, whatever your impression is, you do it, you go for it. That's right. And very often, I mean, you know, they say your instincts are usually right. Very often that first take.

[Brent Spiner]

Yep.

[Ron Perlman]

Is pretty good.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Nathan Cook used to say, do what your first mind tells you to do. I like when the writer's in the room, if he's clever like Mike McMahon, and he'll throw Up. Try this, try this, try this.

[Brent Spiner]

That's the best good director in a, in a voice.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Boy, they stand out when they.

[Brent Spiner]

Fantastic.

[Jonathan Frakes]

They lay off you and then they, they nuance it like a good director anywhere. But in the voice, often there's a

[Ron Perlman]

non acting person get a great direction from someone because you're just not used to it. It's very rare that you get a direction from somebody that, that you go, oh fuck, that's so much better than what I'm doing.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Great idea.

[Ron Perlman]

And it opens you up to a whole sub subset of. Of idiosyncrasies and different character, you know, personality like traits.

[Jonathan Frakes]

My experience is that that great direction often comes from something that, that I've seen you do or you do that I want to.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

It's not my idea generally. It's something that, that reminds. Oh, that would be cooler if that volume or that note changed and that was played different key there.

[Ron Perlman]

It's all.

[Jonathan Frakes]

It always seems to be always inspired. Inspired by the actor.

[Brent Spiner]

Famous direction that, that John Huston gave Katharine Hepburn on the African Queen because she was a little lost in the very beginning. First couple days and she said he sidled up to her, just whispered in her ear, think Eleanor Roosevelt. And she said that the whole role opened up to her at that moment. Just three little words.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Wait, what about Katharine Hepburn?

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Frakes]

What about Call of Duty?

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. What about Call of Duty?

[Ron Perlman]

I don't remember doing it.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Good answer.

[Brent Spiner]

What about Fallout?

[Ron Perlman]

There's a lot of Fallout.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, I remember doing that to the narration on Fallout.

[Ron Perlman]

I did the narration on, on like all five games, six games, whatever there was.

[Brent Spiner]

That's big.

[Ron Perlman]

Well, it turned into something. I mean, you know, the first time they called me, you know, you got this voiceover gig is for this new game called Fallout. They gave me $40 and a sandwich and, and then a year and a half later they said, hey, remember that thing Fallout you did? I go, no. They go, well, there's a second one. I go, why? You know, because the first one went through the roof and then there was a third one.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Then you got some back end money.

[Ron Perlman]

They were very, very precise about not adding any money to it ever. They had that part completely. We don't have enough money in the budget. Yeah, but didn't you make $2 billion on the first release? Well, yeah, but yeah, we don't have that money now.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I don't know where it went.

[Ron Perlman]

I don't know where it went. $40 and a sandwich and a half.

[Brent Spiner]

You know, getting back to Del Toro, just For a second. Hellboy is one of the great characters ever. You're so great in that. And my son and I watched both of them several times and just loved it. It's just such a rich, wonderful piece.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Love Hellboy because of the twinkle in your face eye. That's one of your. One of your secret power. Your secret powers is absolutely. That you behind there is. I could be with you. That's so you.

[Brent Spiner]

I mean that, that show that would play.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Are you gonna do Hellboy 3? I read somewhere.

[Ron Perlman]

No, that was. I did a podcast recently and he asked me about Hellboy 3 and so it made the news.

[Brent Spiner]

I got it.

[Ron Perlman]

You know, the funny thing is, is that you just. I just want to be me.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

And. And say what's on my mind. Good, bad or indifferent. If somebody's an asshole, name names, you know. But then it makes 9,000 outlets.

[Brent Spiner]

Yes.

[Ron Perlman]

They take you apart and they, they or they just use you for. For sensationalized headlines. Leave you in a pool of your own urine to die.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

And move on to the next guy who's going to himself over by saying what he thinks. This is the business we are in, like it or not.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah, but you saying what you think has. Hasn't hurt you. I watch you closely because I know you and I love you and I watch it, bro. Your Persona is so honest, so passionate, so free. I said to you before we started, did you see his Instagram where his wife's feet are around his head? They're in Mexico. He's singing. You don't see her face, you see her legs and her feet are around. It's. It's you. It's genius. Yeah, right.

[Ron Perlman]

That's you with this. This beautiful wife of mine did.

[Brent Spiner]

But what do you think being outspoken politically has. Has been a negative or has it made.

[Ron Perlman]

I ask my people that all the time because, you know, everybody thinks I work all the time and I have huge, huge periods where nothing's coming in. And I never, hardly ever ever get calls from, from the mainstream studios. The only time I'm in a studio movie is if Del Toro is making it or another one of these guys who. I did an indie little low budget film, makes it big, and then he invites me to be in his studio movie. But that's not how I make my living. I make my living doing mostly low budget indie movies and, you know, other things that I can scrape together.

[Brent Spiner]

So what do you think? Has it hurt or. No?

[Ron Perlman]

I mean, I keep asking my people, I. I keep saying, do you know, you know I'm the first one to admit that, you know, there are, there, there are times when I got, you know, really shrill and, you know, and, and out there, you know, with my political thing, but they, they swear that they don't get any of that.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

When they try to sell me.

[Brent Spiner]

I would think not, I would think it would make no difference whatsoever.

[Jonathan Frakes]

It goes back to what you said earlier in this interview, which is, you know, I'm at the age where I don't give a shit.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I don't give a shit. I'm gonna tell you how I feel. And I think there's something empowering and appealing both about that quality that you have. You have pretty much the same deal,

[Brent Spiner]

except I'm still scared. He's, he's much braver.

[Ron Perlman]

I know this is your show and everything like that, and I don't mean to sound like I'm going to take over, but can we talk about my newest endeavor? It really ties into what we're talking about now. When we went on strike, I think we, I think we went on strike at midnight on June 6, 2023. Following morning, I'm having my morning coffee and I do an Instagram live and I'm talking about how I'm from a lower middle class Jewish New York family and if it weren't for organized labor, my parents would have, you know, but because of organized labor, they had a shot at the American dream, which is basically raising your children and retiring with dignity. Okay, so I'm a union guy, but it's never good when we have work stoppages because the wrong people get hurt and a lot of people can't sustain their way through. And it's. And there's going to be blood. And I'm hoping that when this whole, all the dust settles, it'll be worth it, that people, you know, will be worth the hardships that they have to go through to get to the other end, other side of it. And then I, as I was finishing up, I said, but one thing before I go to the motherfucker on the other side of the bargaining table who said, we're not going to even begin to talk to these guys till they start losing their houses. Let me tell you something, motherfucker, there's a lot of ways to lose your house. Sometimes it's financial, sometimes it's karma, and sometimes it's just you say these things publicly. We know who you are. We know where you live. So that was the end of my Instagram live rant on the first day of the actors strike. A couple hours later, my. My managers call me and they say, hey, Ron, you see what's going down? I go, no, what? He goes, well, the thing you said about the studio executive has gone viral and we're getting calls from. Everybody is loving what you said, but. But we're getting calls like if. And they thought I was referring to Robert Iger because he was the one that was very public during that time, said, if Iger's house happens to catch fire, they're coming for you because you made a public threat. So this started this whole thing, which led to me realizing that this current condition that the movie business is in with these streamers and their streamers that are not filmmakers. They're. They're guys who are trying to sell cell phones.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

There are guys who are, you know, made a living, you know, putting mom and pop businesses out of business by giving you cheap shit that comes straight to your house. You never have to leave your. And now they're doing the same thing with culture. They're just bringing it all to your house. And you can sit there and you're. And. And not only that, but they refuse to tell you what their revenues are so that they've destroyed the transparency that leads to residual payments and stuff, which has been one of the backbones of how we maintain our independence and used

[Jonathan Frakes]

to be able to maintain our health.

[Brent Spiner]

Used to.

[Ron Perlman]

And I started really examining the difference between this current environment and the. The movie industry that I grew up in and that I knew had existed for a hundred years where a lot of people did very well.

[Brent Spiner]

Yes.

[Ron Perlman]

And there was enough resources and enough revenue streams for a lot of people to put their kids through school and retire with dignity. I'm not just talking about filmmakers. I'm talking about tech people, costumers.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

Grips industry, camera people. And now there's a handful. And this. Who said that he backed off because he. Somebody called him out publicly. You know how many people have lost their houses because of the way they're doing this thing? So I just launched a movie studio. Where's Asylum Studios?

[Brent Spiner]

Where is it?

[Ron Perlman]

It's nowhere.

[Brent Spiner]

Oh, okay.

[Ron Perlman]

All it's going to be is, is there may never be a studio. An actual bricks and mortar.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

It's just going to be a place that, you know, creates a war chest to green light movies and television. It's called Asylum because it's only being run by the inmates. There are no. There is no privileged class. There's no executive class. There are no CEOs, there are no lawyers. There Are no, you know, like accountants who are running the show. There are no guys who, you know, are making their living trying to sell cell phones. It's just us. I'm here.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah. Would be nice if those projects could be made here too, you know.

[Ron Perlman]

Oh, yeah.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, because this is Hollywood. Hollywood. Where did Hollywood go? We love Hollywood. That's why we came here, because it was Hollywood.

[Ron Perlman]

Hollywood kind of itself. Yeah, a little bit.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Are you producing and directing and acting and you're available for all parts in this Asylum?

[Ron Perlman]

I certainly don't want to make Asylum Studios a vanity thing, a way to promote Ron Proman pet projects. But there's a few movies that I've been trying to produce for years that will be circulated in. But it's not going to be. It's not going to, you know. Yeah. I'll never stop acting. I love being an actor. I love other actors.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Why would we quit?

[Ron Perlman]

And it's like my drug, but. But, but I'm gonna run the studio. And the whole idea of it is to be a collective of the old guard, which is the Scorsese's and the Coppola's and the middle guard, which is the David O. Russells and the Paul Thomas Andersons. And then lift, and then lift up. All of the people who are now having to go to YouTube because they, the gatekeepers, are much better at keeping young filmmakers out than they are letting them in. So. So that's why YouTube is proliferating the way it is, because there's storytellers everywhere, always. But they need someplace to go and they can't get into the mainstream because the mainstream has shrunken and become so fucking small that they have to go somewhere. This is why TikTok and YouTube are exploding the way they are. And Asylum Studios will be the place to come on in. We're a collective, you know, you sit, sit at the table with the Adam McKay's and David O. Russell's and we'll tell you what kind of ending your movie needs and give you your budget and let you make a movie. So it's going to be a place that's going to hope there's hope for us.

[Brent Spiner]

Brent, I'm telling you, I'm thinking right now, I have ideas.

[Ron Perlman]

And the other thing about it is, is that we've identified this blockchain technology that takes all of the human factor out of accounting. So there's no such thing anymore as, as. As creative accounting where a movie makes a billion dollars, but they tell you it still hasn't broken even.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

It's going to be completely transparent. And everyone who works on an Asylum movie will be a part owner, including the guy who cleans DiCaprio's toilet.

[Brent Spiner]

Great.

[Ron Perlman]

And everybody who works at the studio will be a part owner of the studio. So it will be a. It'll be just filmmakers. You know, it's basically my response to the Raha barons, who have just taken all of the humanity and. And the. And the soul and the honesty and the integrity out of every business that they touch. Because the corporate playbook is always to just devalue your workforce. Pay them as little as possible, and let them know, you open your mouth, there's 15 guys ready to take your job.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

And this is why we have. The politics we have today is because people are so disrespected and so passed over and so beaten down with how little they. They're worth that they're ready to burn it all down.

[Brent Spiner]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

Even the democracy.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, I hope it works. It sounds great.

[Jonathan Frakes]

It does sound great.

[Ron Perlman]

It's working already.

[Brent Spiner]

Oh, good.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Because that's funny. I didn't get a call. You had a call.

[Brent Spiner]

I. I did. I didn't want to hurt you, but, yeah, Ronnie, we're on board.

[Ron Perlman]

No, but the thing of it is,

[Jonathan Frakes]

is that we can bring you stuff.

[Ron Perlman]

Here's the thing.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

People say to me, oh, you know when. In these early interviews, because it's very early, and I'm just starting to talk about it now. I just. We just announced the first movie that's in production. But. And I. I was very deliberately not talking about it at all until I knew I was going to be able to pull it off, because I didn't want anybody getting the impression that I was coming to them for help. You have to. When you're going to do something as dangerous as this and go against the entire flow of how things are done, you have to do it yourself. You have to prove you can do it before anybody's going to feel safe enough to join in. And so we're at that. That. That tipping point now. But people say, okay, so you have your own studio. So what kind of things do you want to do? And I go, no, the question is, what kind of things do you want to do? I'm just here to facilitate the environment and the resources to open my arms to every great fucking artist on the planet, whether they're from Korea or Italy or somewhere in Uganda. Like, there's filmmakers everywhere ready to tell incredible stories. And our job at Asylum Studios is to. Is to say, oh, That's a great idea. Let's help you make that. That's what. It's. So. I don't. It's not what I want to do.

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

How do we facilitate making your dream come true without having it be some result of an algorithm that's telling us what the public. What you think the public wants.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Right.

[Ron Perlman]

That's not how you make art. You don't pander to the public. You show the public what's beautiful and. And. And sweep them into a dreamlike state.

[Brent Spiner]

Oh, good for you, Ron. Good for you. I hope. I hope this turns out to be

[Ron Perlman]

huge for you, whether it does or it doesn't. You know something, Brent? I'm having such a good time waking up every morning working on this, because it's. It's. This. This. This industry has meant so much more to me than the current climate is reflective of. And I. I'm betting, because I've seen the effect that great movies have had on everybody across the world throughout my entire lifetime. I'm betting that this devalued, tiny, little fucking home entertainment model is a blip, but that people are longing to go back to the days when they could go into a darkened theater, sit there with 2,000 strangers and. And have a collective consciousness moment where they walk out at the end with tears in their eyes and they go, oh, you too?

[Brent Spiner]

Yeah.

[Ron Perlman]

Oh, yeah, man. I was like, oh. And then. And people are hugging each other because they just shared something that shed a light on the human condition and made us all realize we're all in the same fucking boat. Which is why cinema is too important to. To be home entertainment only to watch it in your piss stain sweats. It's way too important. It's like asking somebody to go to church in their piss stain sweats, but we're going to bring it to your living room, right? Because, you know, who really wants to get up and put on a nice, you know, jacket and look nice, you know, in public? Is that how you go to church? No.

[Brent Spiner]

No.

[Ron Perlman]

You have to go somewhere and humble yourself in public. That's what worship is. And we happen to be in an industry that should be worshiped.

[Brent Spiner]

Yes.

[Ron Perlman]

Because what we're doing for the connectivity of reminding everybody that we're not enemies, we shouldn't be hating each other. We should be recognizing our collective consciousness. That's a fucking noble endeavor and needs to be treated as such.

[Brent Spiner]

Amen.

[Ron Perlman]

So. Asylum Studios, baby.

[Brent Spiner]

Okay? Asylum Studios.

[Ron Perlman]

Ron Perlman, send me your week. You're shattered and you're hungry, huddled masses and you're worthy.

[Jonathan Frakes]

You're fabulous, powerful man.

[Brent Spiner]

Thank you. Ronnie. Loved having you here.

[Ron Perlman]

I'm sorry I took up so much time.

[Jonathan Frakes]

No, it was fascinating.

[Ron Perlman]

We. We talked about stuff that's near and dear to all of us. I know you guys. I've gotten to know this guy, you know, worked. We worked a bunch together. We've never worked together. We've got to know each other over the last few years. And I know where your heart is.

[Jonathan Frakes]

I was thrilled when you said yes to me.

[Ron Perlman]

That's. Everything is like, you know, where your heart is is everything. And none of us are. I want to do anything, but just.

[Jonathan Frakes]

None of us are done.

[Ron Perlman]

Spread joy.

[Brent Spiner]

That's right.

[Ron Perlman]

We just want to spread joy. And if you can get paid while you're doing it, that ain't bad either.

[Brent Spiner]

Exactly.

[Ron Perlman]

But if. But whether you get paid or not, we're still going to spread the fucking joy.

[Brent Spiner]

Well, that's true.

[Jonathan Frakes]

Ron Perlman, we love him.