Ep 456: How Pilothouse Boosts Revenue Through Email Retention: Jordan Gordon’s Top Insights from The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast | AKNF

Summary

Podcast Summary: DTC Podcast – Ep 456: How Pilothouse Boosts Revenue Through Email Retention

Introduction

In Episode 456 of the DTC Podcast, titled "How Pilothouse Boosts Revenue Through Email Retention: Jordan Gordon’s Top Insights from The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast | AKNF," host Eric Dick engages in a deep dive with Jordan Gordon, Pilot House's Director of Retention and Email Marketing. Released on November 15, 2024, this episode explores the pivotal role of email marketing in scaling direct-to-consumer (DTC) ecommerce brands, drawing from Jordan's expertise and his own podcast, "Twee Burp."

The Importance of Email in Scaling

Jordan Gordon opens the discussion by underscoring the indispensability of email in scaling a business. He states:

“You can't scale without email. The way that you scale is to have a profit and loss statement that can handle large swings in ad price... You need email there as a buffer during the business cycle swings in ad cost.” ([00:00])

Jordan explains that email serves as a stabilizing force against fluctuating advertising costs and shifts in organic traffic, especially with emerging challenges like AI impacts on SEO. He emphasizes that while SEO strategies may need constant updating, email remains a reliable and unchanging channel for customer engagement and retention.

Launching and Managing a Podcast: Jordan's Experience

The conversation shifts to Jordan's own podcasting journey. He candidly shares the initial struggles he faced, such as technical issues with his microphone and logistical challenges living in Mexico:

“At first it was just a struggle to get my microphone working... And we're living in Mexico right now, so everything is hard to get it shipped to me...” ([01:27])

Despite these hurdles, Jordan highlights the rewarding aspects of podcasting, including the structured dissemination of his ideas and connecting with a broader audience. He also touches on the creative process behind the podcast’s theme song, utilizing AI for ideation and final production:

“One of them, luckily there was one that was just pure magic... that's how we got with the theme song that I hum all day.” ([02:18])

Key Insights from the 'Tweep Burp' Podcast

Jordan delves into the critical insights he's developed through his seven episodes on "Tweep Burp." These insights focus on optimizing email marketing to drive revenue and sustain growth.

a. Revenue Sources and Email Strategy

Jordan outlines the primary sources of revenue for DTC brands, emphasizing the ranking and role of email marketing:

“First inboxing. If you're not in the inbox, you're not getting any revenue. But then welcome, funnel support, and then it's a numbers game.” ([04:35])

He explains that being present in the customer's inbox is fundamental to generating revenue, followed by supporting the sales funnel and increasing the volume of meaningful interactions.

b. The Numbers Game and Customer Engagement

The discussion moves to the "numbers game," where the focus is on maximizing monthly messages per user and targeting the most engaged customers. Jordan shares strategies for multi-channel reactivation to boost user engagement:

“It's a multi-channel reactivation or a multichannel post purchase that would bump those monthly messages per user but to the best users, your buyers, and get them to buy again.” ([04:42])

c. Relationship Between Email and Advertising

Jordan articulates the symbiotic relationship between email marketing and advertising spend. He presents a model illustrating email's higher return on investment (ROI) compared to ads:

“Email is 4x the ROI and then put in a cost of goods sold. And bottom line, you end up in a situation where you're making more money with email being half the revenue of ads.” ([10:50])

He posits that effective email strategies provide the financial flexibility to invest more confidently in advertising, enabling scalable growth.

d. Cognitive Biases in Marketing Messages

An intriguing segment covers cognitive biases in crafting marketing messages. Jordan highlights how rhetorical techniques, such as rhyming slogans, can enhance message retention and perceived truthfulness:

“There's actually a cognitive bias around that. When something rhymes, people are more likely to think it's true.” ([19:36])

He uses the catchy phrase “you can’t scale without email” as an example of leveraging cognitive biases to reinforce key marketing principles.

e. Email Strategies of Top Brands

Jordan examines the email marketing practices of leading brands, emphasizing simplicity, consistency, and excellence. He references Filson's meticulous email designs as a benchmark:

“Nobody at a top brand is looking at an asset going, yeah, is that one good enough? ... They have this mindset of excellence.” ([13:05])

He praises how top brands maintain uniformity across different devices and channels, avoiding unnecessary complexity to ensure clarity and impact.

Practical Applications and Examples

The episode features practical examples, such as Montana Knife Company's disciplined email strategy. Jordan discusses how meticulously planned product drops and consistent email communications drive engagement and sales:

“Montana Knife Company... every single one of those drops is treated like a real opportunity to engage a user.” ([06:25])

He also shares insights from his analysis of Filson's email approaches, detailing how thematic consistency and intentional design choices contribute to successful campaigns.

Upcoming Content and Engagement

Looking ahead, Jordan promotes upcoming content, including a webinar focused on Black Friday strategies. He encourages listeners to engage with his content across platforms and provides tips for maximizing email effectiveness during high-traffic periods:

“... we'll tighten your laces, strap in, and it'll be a webinar where I can just talk through with people.” ([24:02])

Conclusion

In this episode of the DTC Podcast, Jordan Gordon delivers a comprehensive exploration of email marketing's role in scaling DTC brands. Through insightful discussions and real-world examples, he illustrates how a robust email strategy not only drives revenue but also provides the stability needed to navigate fluctuating ad markets and evolving digital landscapes. Listeners gain valuable tactics for enhancing their email retention efforts, supported by Jordan's experience and the proven strategies of top-performing brands.

Notable Quotes

• “You can't scale without email.” – Jordan Gordon ([00:00])

• “If you're not in the inbox, you're not getting any revenue.” – Jordan Gordon ([04:35])

• “The world's best email and retention podcast.” – Jordan Gordon ([08:46])

• “Email is society's unique identifier.” – Jordan Gordon ([12:14])

• “Nobody at a top brand is looking at an asset going, yeah, is that one good enough?” – Jordan Gordon ([13:05])

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a crucial resource for DTC brands aiming to refine their email marketing strategies. By leveraging Jordan Gordon's insights and the examples of successful companies, listeners can implement effective retention tactics that drive sustained growth and resilience in an ever-changing ecommerce landscape.

Transcript

[Jordan Gordon]

You can't scale without email. The way that you scale is to have a profit and loss statement that can handle large swings in ad price. When suddenly, oh, advertising gets more expensive because of changes in the business cycle. You can't get stopped out and suddenly not move any inventory. You need email there as a buffer. Have your list as a buffer during the business cycle swings in ad cost. Now that Google where free organic traffic will start to be chipp away by AI, all the SEO work a bunch of people have done will get screwed up and you'll have to rejig that SEO work. Email's not going anywhere. It's sitting here solid as a rock like it's been since I was 20. Right? Nothing's changed. It's doing its thing.

[Eric Dick]

It's all killer, no filler. I'm Eric. This is the DTC podcast and today we have returning superstar podcaster Jordan Gordon, Pilot House's director of retention and email marketing, hot on the heels of his new launch of the world's best email and retention podcast, Twee Burp. What episode are you on now, Jordan?

[Jordan Gordon]

I just recorded to a burp 7.

[Eric Dick]

This is our first podcast that we're launching on the D2C podcast network. Other than D2C and the All Killer no Filler podcast, how has this process been?

[Jordan Gordon]

Well, at first it was just a struggle to get my microphone working. I'm kind of one of these like I do the Bluetooth speaker that's kind of my audio file setup. And we're living in Mexico right now, so everything is hard to get it shipped to me when I was back in Canada. I should have bought it at Best Buy when I was there, but we overcame that. And as you just heard a couple minutes ago, there's also just stopping my 2 year old or my 3 year old from bashing down the door. Other than that, really fun and a chance to really like a chance to be more structured in the way that I bring my ideas to the world.

[Eric Dick]

We've talked about on the podcast how much we love making the theme song for the podcast. We were just discussing how much how we used. You didn't have a headshot ready and so we used some great AI magic to replace some hair for your headshot.

[Jordan Gordon]

Yeah, to tell the world it's really that the hair that they gave me. So I mean, I have lots of hair but the picture was a bit of a cutoff and that's the one you guys wanted. And so I've got like Justin Trudeau hair in the podcast picture. It's like amazing, this huge head of hair. So, yeah, it's kind of funny. And the song, I mean, there were like four verses to pick through. Not all the AI verses were any good, but one of them, luckily there was one that was just pure magic. And I think that's really how we should think about AI is use it to ideate, use it to produce, and then just like heavily edit. And that's how, that's how we got with the theme song that I hum all day. I walk around the house singing it.

[Eric Dick]

Do, do, do email. But today, what this is, this is the all killer no filler podcast. So we're going to go through some of your. The biggest insights I feel like that you've unearthed in your seven episodes. By the time this actually releases, you'll have probably have seven out. So in terms of all killer, what are some of the most killer insights you've been able to generate on the Twitter podcast?

[Jordan Gordon]

Yeah, yeah, thanks for the great question. When, when we were kind of beforehand, kind of deciding what are we going to chat about now? My first thought was, well, if I, if I talk about something here, then I got to get it. Put it on the dtc on, on the world's best email and retention podcast too. Yeah. So I thought I'd just come with just some really important things we discussed, but also get a chance to be a little bit more conversational with you. Because before I was just like trying to jam out this stuff to get information out there. So, yeah, here's just. I've got a top 10 here. We might not even get through a top 10. It's actually not in any order. But one interesting thing to discuss with you is like we discussed where the revenue comes from. Like, I just sat back and thought, how do I. What do people want to know? They probably want to know where, where should I work, where should my efforts be? And I've. I came with it with an interesting top four, which was first inboxing. If you're not in the inbox, you're not getting any revenue. But then welcome, funnel support. And in the last point, it's actually, I think it's after welcome and funnel support. I think it's a numbers game. As far as I can tell. It's monthly messages per user and how many messages the average person gets and.

[Eric Dick]

Potentially how targeted they are, which is something that we talk about all the time. How segmented or how, how much you're meeting them, where they're at.

[Jordan Gordon]

Yeah. And so on that episode, I went through and rather than just walking away saying just spam some more, send some more campaigns, I kind of went through and talked about a really a multi channel reactivation or a multichannel post purchase that would bump those monthly messages per user but to the best users, your buyers, and get them to buy again.

[Eric Dick]

Cool. So point one is just the order of operations here when it comes to taking over email and how you should think about deliverability. Job one, welcome sequence, funnel support, numbers.

[Jordan Gordon]

Game and then numbers game. Although I'll say the effect of a really good product launch is a lot like we don't control your product launches, we don't control your drops. So you know, we kind of just go oh at this point just peppering a bit more works reactivation which come, which pulls all these people who haven't engaged in a long time, gets them to engage and puts them back into your campaign engagement window that you know these, these, these are the tactics that just get more messages out there and kind of, yeah, just increase the monthly messages per user. If you can get your monthly messages per user up by one, it makes a difference.

[Eric Dick]

And if you can add another M and there be your monthly meaningful messages. So if you can actually have product launches, those are meaningful event emails. Takes me back to Montana Knife Company's presentation they did at C Suite. Brandon did it C Suite where he basically showed us every two drops every week for the next two years planned out in a spreadsheet. So that, and every single one of those drops is treated like a real opportunity to engage and a user. And when you have that anchoring your email program where you have a real reason to be messaging people twice a week, it's going to make everything else more effective, I imagine.

[Jordan Gordon]

Yeah, this wasn't on my list but I did just, I just recorded this I think a couple days ago where I talked about relationship, audience message, product. Right. Ramp, ramp up your marketing like textbook stuff, right. That we all did in college if we did business. And that relationship like this is what you can do. You can look at your, look at your campaign list for the last 12 months. That is the effective relationship you built with your audience. Right. And if that relationship is good, you're going to get an extra year. And so we talked through a client of ours that has a great three message per week. We don't usually do three campaigns, we usually do two. It's just like a good number. But a client that does three a week and it's interesting, it's. The first one is well one a week is like let's say merchandising, right? Product feature launch, right? And then one is rich content, you know, kind of blog, video. And then one is this like, single product deal. Kind of like woot.com, i don't know if you remember woot.com from a long time ago, basically, single product discount. Okay, well, you know what? You're not going to have someone load up and clear out your catalog with that single product discount, and you're going to get people buying products they wouldn't otherwise have purchased, which is the whole purpose of this thing. And so if you do that, you got. Then you can do three messages a week and you got a little something for everybody. You got the discount people. You got the people who are trying to become a better person being on your email list, and they're really into your stuff. And then you got people who just want to know what's new. And that's kind of how you can, like we say, increase your monthly messages per user while building a better relationship.

[Eric Dick]

Love it. Let's take this moment in between one and your next point here. Just to remind everyone, take a moment and go type into Google twerp, tw, B, E, R, P. That's if I just confirmed that this works. If you want to subscribe on Spotify, Twerp, Spotify, Twerp, itunes, it's there we are. If you Google, it'll also be in the link in the show notes here. But I feel like that extra SEO boost of people searching Tweep will really make it a thing. So go right now and subscribe to Jordan Gordon's the World's Best Email and Retention Podcast. Now, before we get into these other ones, and you'll get these delivered directly to you, very clearly organized, without me chiming in with some varying degree of effective metaphor, because I don't always nail it.

[Jordan Gordon]

Listen, everybody out there, if this is not the world's best email and retention podcast, I'd like you to tell me why. Find a way. Find a way to get in touch. I'm sure you can do it through Pilothouse and let me know what it needs to be the world's best email and retention podcast. Because we want to be the best. We're not here for second place.

[Eric Dick]

Love it. Okay, what's your second big insight you've generated from your first seven episodes?

[Jordan Gordon]

I got, I was able to go in and, like you said, really descriptively talk about the most important concepts. So one concept is like, where's the money come from? And then like, what's Email supposed to do. So I said this thing and I've said it, I'm sure I'll say it more than once because it just want, it just fits into it. Explains so many things about retention. But if you want to drive more first time buyers, you need to learn to drive more repeat buyers. Right. And I just modeled this out on a sheet. I was just doing it for our sales process. It was, I modeled out a domain, a Shopify domain that's doing, you know, 40% ads, 20% email, like what share of revenue. And then kind of the return on investment is 4x the return on investment on ads. This is totally normal stuff. Ads is twice as much as email. Email is 4x the ROI and then put in a cost of goods sold. And bottom line, you end up in a situation where you're making more money with email being half the revenue of ads. Now of course you need new customers. And so like I'm not, this is not. There's nothing against ads, it's just where you actually squeeze the rag is email. So if you figure out how to squeeze that rag and grow that free revenue, the sweet nectar of low cost revenue from email, when you squeeze that rag, that's where the money to build a taller ads funnel goes. Where you can go for people who maybe aren't even problem aware yet. You can start advertising to them rather than just people who are, who already are already showing intent.

[Eric Dick]

You think of a mighty oak and you look at it underground, its roots are going just as deep as its upper branches. Right. So I think that to make waves on social media, you need to have those deeper pockets and you have to be able to spend into those situations knowing that you can make it up on the back end.

[Jordan Gordon]

And even if. Yes, exactly. I love the tree analogy. Maybe I'll steal that. And the Internet influencers I've been following and I guess I've been looking them a little bit more recently because I've thought, oh, I've got to create content right now they're all really talking about, you know, yeah, this is what we're doing with our funnel. The bottom of the funnel is email and then we use email to merchandise and email is a funnel too. Now that Google will start where free organic traffic will start to be chipped away by AI, it's not going to go away, it's going to be transformed. Right. So all the SEO work a bunch of people have done will kind of get screwed up and you'll have to rejig that SEO work. Email is not Going anywhere. It's sitting here solid as a rock. Like, it's been my, like since I was 20, right? Nothing's changed. It's doing its thing.

[Eric Dick]

So great place to public utility, which is maybe that's. I like that point that you made in your very first episode as well, that people don't think about that. It's like, it is, it's like your waterline. It's your, you know, it's an actual public utility versus something like that's a walled garden like Amazon or Facebook or any of those platforms.

[Jordan Gordon]

And there's this other point here that I made too. Or maybe I didn't even make it yet and maybe I made it to someone. I might have been talking to Carly about this. But email is society's uid. Email is society's unique identifier. So, yeah, because of that, every single system spits out email, Every single system imports emails. So it is the rail car that takes people from one system to another. Every single purchase resolves to email because it's the uid. So it's more central than people would imagine. And that's also why it's really sticky. And you know, the money you invest in your email channel right now is still going to be paying off dividends in three years easily, you know, Beautiful point.

[Eric Dick]

Love that. What else you got?

[Jordan Gordon]

You know, this is so important and it was so nice for me to get a chance to discuss this, to get the open air to discuss this. The one I, the, the pod I just recorded was how, how to do email like a top brand. Because I spent a lot of time looking at top brands and I have worked at some pretty good brands and simplicity and mindset of excellence, how these two things interrelate. Nobody at a top brand is looking at an asset going, yeah, is that one good enough? Yeah, it's good enough. Let's just, let's just send it as is. No way. And they don't have that mindset. They would, they don't even think that way. I've worked with these people. They're super nerdy. I mean, nerdy is probably not the right word. Detail oriented, I guess is the right way to say it. And so they have this mindset of excellence. There's nobody working at a top brand that doesn't exist. Exhibit that or they're gone. They won't even get hired because they get selected out in the, in the.

[Eric Dick]

And they're not doing things that just. Check box, check boxes. I'll take it back to Montana. Knifeco. It's like literally every single email that they send for these, for these drops, these like event emails are. Have like the utmost design to them. They are like, they're each. They're like their own little production, their own little film production. They each tell a story. They each have unique design elements. And it's like they just don't around with that because it's the lifeblood, it's the pulse.

[Jordan Gordon]

Intentional. And if we go back and look at, I think it's the world's. The world's best email retention podcast episode 5 or something like that. We. We do Filson and. And we go through and actually show this. You better check this one out on YouTube or Spotify. Spotify show eight Filson emails and how intentional they are with every aspect of that email from the primary conversion, secondary conversion, the dark mode, the light mode. You know, how they're. How they're repurposing and reusing assets, like the best assets from every shoot and the way that they get more juice out of those while still being pleasing to the audience. Just unique ways of making a sale. Cool, right? All of that. And so again, when we think about this, that mindset of excellence, everybody's thinking that way at top brands. But the way that they make it work is simplicity, right? No unnecessary complexity. Top brands don't pay for complexity. They pay for consistency. They want the thing to look the same and look right and it doesn't need to do any. They don't get cute. They just don't get cute.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah, don't get cute. Keep it simple, keep it classy.

[Jordan Gordon]

Oh, my God. Like, here's the example that I use is like, what happens when you've got two different versions, one that shows up on desktop, one that shows up on mobile and you. Someone says, oh, we got to change this, and you accidentally make the change in one place and not the other. And then you've got two different versions of an email to based on the device that someone opens it on. And if someone says, we got to change the sale date, that's a huge difference. And so these are the kinds of things like we don't even do it. We just make really, really simple templates that look good. Right? We did as well on that and I was really happy to get a chance to discuss this on that. Filson1. The difference between category features and theme features and thinking this way. So a category features like pants. We're selling pants. And some of the pants are for men is Filson, right? Men working on fishing boats and some of the pants are for men, you know, fighting forest fires. Like Filson is this great brand. If anybody listing not familiar with Filson, just go, go buy some Filson. Well, what they do, they do theme features where it's like, oh, we're not doing pants, we're doing base camp or, you know, we're doing I'm a surveyor. And so I've got my motorcycle and I've got all the clothes I wear on my motorcycle and I've got all the weird accessories. They got the thermos and the table and they can sell all the things that fit with this theme. And when you do that, you can start designing your photo shoots around the theme and start making videos around that theme and link to the videos from the theme feature and you can do a series of these. Yeah, so that's like, that's like top brand stuff. Right? And so, and the import of this is really, really early on. Like top brands, they're thinking about what they're going to do for the fall season in like the spring season. Hey, what are we going to do for the fall season? Let's start planning this.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah, just like Montana Knife Co planned two years ahead on every one of these drops so that everything is automatic for their team. Everything is simple. Keep everything simple. We know what our, you know, we just, you know, when you need to have your product, your landing page done. Boom, boom, boom.

[Jordan Gordon]

I want to look these guys up. Who is it?

[Eric Dick]

Montana Knife company. I'll share. We actually launched it. Yeah, we shot, we shared, shared it on the pod or we shared the talk that he gave on the podcast recently. But super amazing to see what that, what that unlocks for your team when you give, when you put that pulse, that's like everyone can be sure about what they're supposed to do.

[Jordan Gordon]

I had someone come to me after that, I guess, presentation. I had nothing to do with that. I was doing something else, whatever. I was keeping the lights on here. But someone came to me afterwards and said, oh, they've got this amazing model and this is how they use email. And it's like they kind of, you know, have this email list where they drive all the revenue and then they use ads to top it up. Right? Yeah. And I just was like, yeah, duh, yeah, right. Just a different, a different way to think about it. And that is exactly the. If you want to drive more first time buyers, you must learn to drive more repeat buyers. And that because then it's, it is literally scalable. And the way that you, that you make money the way that you scale is to have a profit and loss statement that can handle large swings in ad price. When suddenly, oh, advertising gets more expensive because of changes in the business cycle. You can't get stopped out and suddenly not move any inventory. So you need to have that email. You need. You can't scale without email. You need email there to as a buffer and have your list as a buffer during the business cycle. Swings in ad cost. Wow. Right? Wow.

[Eric Dick]

Can't scale without email. And it rhymes. So we know it's true.

[Jordan Gordon]

It must be. There's actually a cognitive bias around that. I want to give a cognitive biases talk. It got. It got stopped out. I had to do another Black Friday. It was. The call was more Black Friday. But one of the cognitive biases actually is that when something rhymes, people are more likely to think it's true. It's just this. It's the stupidest stuff.

[Eric Dick]

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit. That's where it really first came into popular parlance, I think.

[Jordan Gordon]

Totally. So I will admit that when I put together you can't scale without email, I was using a cognitive bias against my audience. I admit I am a marketer, but it is also true you can't scale without email.

[Eric Dick]

It's true. Is one of those cognitive biases hyperbole, I would imagine, because calling a podcast the world's best right out of the gate, maybe a little hyperbole, but it just happens to be true again in.

[Jordan Gordon]

This case, actually, yeah, you. This. It's anchoring. So this is how I anchor it. I come up anchoring bias. I come up and say, this is the best. And so now already I've anchored it and said it's the best. And so you're going to be like, as you. As you. Then as your mind negotiates around that, you might go, well, is it like kind of maybe the second best or the third best? You're not automatically. You are more likely to think that than, oh, is it junk? It's not what you're going to think about. And we do this in the sales process too. When we say, well, this thing is, you know, seven grand, eight grand a month or whatever, right? That's what this thing costs. Cars do it too. You've got your manufacturer's suggested retail price and it's huge. And then you go, oh, here's the discounts we can do. Here's. We can get the price down, but you already anchored it. And so that is exactly what we've done with the World's best email retention podcast. And I hope everyone there is excited about the upcoming cognitive biases talk. As long as. As long as Black Friday doesn't get in the way again.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah. Oh, it shouldn't. It'll be. It'll be no problem. Well, you're building up a big bank, so you're working ahead of the game, which is great. What I don't want to give away too, too much. I want people to go search to a burp. I want them to click the link below this. I want them to join the hundreds of D2C podcast listeners who are now joined with this, our Brother podcast to a burp. So I want them to do that. But what else, what else could you leave people with? Maybe.

[Jordan Gordon]

Yeah, I mean, we did. Look, we did some really technical stuff. Like I talked about cloning, segmentation, getting segmentation in your ads. You know what? One thing I did was really, really thoroughly explain how Apple privacy opens work and kind of how they, how they affect your inboxing. So I would. I'm not going to do a big tech talk in front of you because someone can go listen to it. But like, if you, if you, Everybody, like, there's a lot of segmentation and Apple privacy stuff throughout all my talks because it has such a huge effect on people's email metrics. And, and what it is, is false positives. Everything looks great, but then under the hood, it's a mess. So I drove, I really drove that home. And you know, just the final thing. Oh, yeah, look. Really exciting Black Friday research that. I mean, again, if you didn't listen to it, go listen to it now. But so you can understand. I'll just give you the. Explain. I'll be quick. But you want to understand the underlying. Your average Black Friday buyer opened two or one emails. So you want to be saying the. Basically a mirror. You want to be saying the exact same boring thing all season. Go figure out the research. And the other one was revenue per session does not increase throughout November. So the earlier you get share of wallet, there's no sacrifice in getting your share of wallet earlier than later. This is like, this is research that we. This is research. So, you know, you guys, if you're out there listening, I share my own research. And one of the reasons I came to the agency side from the brand side was I could work with dozens of brands and I could. And I could accelerate my own learning. I'm, you know, I'm like, not young and I'm still excited about learning. So there's Some research there that we do that there's two. There's two Black Friday episodes, so you should be able to find something. And also there is. I don't know if it'll be over by the time this is done, but there's a webinar for Black Friday.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Did we already do that or. We're still doing that.

[Jordan Gordon]

I mean, I gave my content ideas, so, you know.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah, yeah, it's coming up.

[Jordan Gordon]

By the time this. Anybody hears this, I don't know, but the idea for it will be like, you know, getting ready for the big days. Right. So. Because I think the way. The timing. The timing that it'll be done will be like, close to the actual Black Friday. So we'll rehash some of my research, but then we'll go into, like, okay, look, it's four days away. Let's just tighten your laces, strap in, and it'll be a webinar where I can just talk through with people. This is exactly how you want to look at, like, investigate every single deployment before you do the next deployment so you can make sure that you're in. That you're in good shape for inboxing. It's almost like a coaching session. It's 45 minutes of content, 50 minutes of Q& A, whatever. If people want to do half an hour questions and half an hour content, I'm fine with that, too. But that's coming up, right? Nice stuff.

[Eric Dick]

Not going to want to miss that. And you can get all the Jordan Gordon you can handle on the Twitter podcast, so go find it on its own feed. Support the D2C Podcast Network. If you love the D2C podcast, you're going to love Twirlp. Share it with your friends. If you've got other people that send emails, other email marketing professionals send them and say, did you know that there is now the world's best email and retention podcast, lovingly known as twrp? Send that in an email to them, and if you can prove that you've got a new listener to join us, we'll, like, send you a hat or something. We're going to. We got to. We got to create some twirl swag. We haven't made any twerp swag yet.

[Jordan Gordon]

Yeah, and I don't know, actually, Eric, I have looked at some of those comments on the YouTube and actually, I'm new to podcasting. I'm a podcast noob. Where should I be going to get feedback from the audience here?

[Eric Dick]

Well, first of all you can be adding. This is something we don't really do on the podcast and we should do more of like on Spotify. They've got a number of features and I'm actually not sure where your listener base is. Ours is like 80, 20 Apple to Spotify or maybe 70, 30. But there are a bunch of. You can ask questions on every single Spotify podcast. You can like leave. You can add Q and A for people that listen to it there and then get engaged. And that, that could be a really good two way method of leaving feedback on episodes. There's YouTube, obviously, and then there's. We just use platforms. I was using one called Chartable, but it just closed down. But there are platforms that aggregate your reviews and kind of tell you where you are compared to your contemporaries that we can, we can kind of clue you into a little bit as well. Rebecca's got something that she, she monitors there.

[Jordan Gordon]

I'll message her about it right after the call.

[Eric Dick]

But already, like the pod, I just, it's very rewarding. I'm excited to maybe to launch other podcasts. Like already we're up to hundreds of listeners on this podcast and once you get a podcast listener, quite often they stick around. So I'm excited to kind of watch this thing grow.

[Jordan Gordon]

Very good. Yeah, me too.

[Eric Dick]

Nice. Well, thanks, Jordan. We'll chat again soon. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're not getting the D2C newsletter, you can subscribe for free at directtoconsumer.co. and if you want to learn more about Pilot House, all killer no filler services take off to Pilothouse Co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the DTC podcast. We'll see you next time.