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- [00:00]
Rob
Despite everyone playing under the same algorithm on Amazon, how you approach Amazon should be strategic, related to your brand and how your brand's going to fit into Amazon.
- [00:10]
Clifford
In a retail store, if you walk the water bottle aisle, you'll see every water bottle. Yeah, you might see the ones on the bottom a little bit less. You might see the ones on the top a little bit more. On Amazon, you only see 20. You're not going to see all the products that are there. Proper merchandising helps your products. Just the question becomes how do you.
- [00:33]
Rob
Get them to browse your brand versus browse just Amazon? And that might be something where you.
- [00:40]
Clifford
For brands that are in the vendor side, we have Amazon touch very little because.
- [00:57]
Eric
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- [02:17]
Rob
For me, I looked it up before this and then I forgot it, but I think it was like anything that contributes to improving sales of a product. So whether that's digital display, digital structures, or like actually in stores, like building a display at the front of an aisle or like the big displays you see in like grocery stores sometimes.
- [02:37]
Eric
How you merchant. This is how you merchant. And there's probably like a lot of our podcast, there's a lot of people that just sort of paint by numbers. Here's what Amazon wants me to do. I've done it. Here's my basic setup, but What I think we're talking about today is how you kind of think pack past the basics when it comes to merchandising on Amazon. Make sure you're doing the right thing for your brand. Not just some basic thing, the whole concept.
- [03:00]
Rob
And Cliff and I have been talking more about it about it recently. But despite everyone playing under the same algorithm on Amazon, how you approach Amazon should be strategic, related to your brand and how your brand's gonna fit into Amazon. That's kind of understanding where Amazon fits in your broader ecosystem. Because you might have like, you might be in a position where it's a, like a net new customer acquisition. You have super relevant generic terms to go after and it makes sense for you to push into like growth and scale on the platform. But you might be in a position where there actually isn't any generic search volume for your product because it's new, it's different, people aren't actually directly searching for it. And Amazon becomes more of a customer capture. It becomes a brand building bottom of funnel capture to give customers an opportunity to buy you there. Because people love buying on Amazon. But it might not be like that new growth platform.
- [03:53]
Eric
Interesting. Can you give me any examples like nameless client things of a client maybe that came in and had the wrong merchandising strategy and then what you did to correct it?
- [04:02]
Clifford
Yeah, there's been honestly the majority, like if they have a lot of products, almost all of them are typically doing something wrong in merchandising. And usually that something wrong is a bigger impact than almost everything else we can do. I think the best way to think about it in comparison to like a retail store is in a retail store, if you walk down the water bottle aisle, you'll see every water bottle. Yeah. You might see the ones on the bottom a little bit less, you might see the ones on the top a little bit more, whatever. And the brands might pay for premium shelf space, but you'll kind of see them all there. On Amazon you only see 20, maybe 24, 40 if you scroll down, like you're not going to see all the products that are there. So proper merchandising can like usually we're talking about variations here in a lot of it, but variations. But then the merchandise within the listing helps your products just get seen more. You leverage the spend that you're putting on this one product that's working to get your other products seen. There's been a whole bunch of different guests on the podcast recently that have had a lot of like different variations of their products. Like Chubby's was, was on biosteel, was on these kind of things. If Chubby's doesn't have all of their different shorts together in a variation, they might have one that really sells well. And when you search short shorts or however you would find it, that would be probably one of the top results. You know, Chubbies, they're big, they sell really well on brand recognition and whatnot. You'll probably find it. But they might have a completely different one that's some different product collection and they decided they're not going to put it together with this other one as a variation because it's a different product on their website, they keep it different. In stores it's different in every sense. It's a different product. But on Amazon now that's on like the fourth page and everyone finds their first one and they never find that one that's on the fourth page because everywhere else where they've merchandised it, it's a different product. So, like, some of those scenarios need to be taken into account to consider. Like, we need to merchandise for Amazon not the same way that we do it everywhere else.
- [06:32]
Eric
And you have to understand, your second point here is really understanding your traffic. Where are the shoppers in the buyer's journey?
- [06:38]
Rob
Yeah, so traffic on Amazon is inherently lower funnel. Like they're, they're probably where customers are coming. They're searching for like a keyword of some sort, but they're still going to be coming in at different levels of intent. So if, for example, you're selling more of a commodity where it's like everything's kind of the same, you're competing mostly on price, then generally you're going to say, we just need to get like the customer to our listing as soon as possible with a reasonable price point and convert them. So that's probably going to be like top of search, sponsored product ads, doing smart things with discounting strategy and pricing and hero image to stand out in search, get them a listing and just get them to buy because you're just transactional purchase. Whereas if you're, say, in the fashion space and customers are more likely to browse, then the question becomes how do you get them to browse your brand versus browse just Amazon? And that might be something where you actually run a sponsored brand strategy where you're directing to store and then you build a really nice store experience that walks someone through the collection and their options and they can upsell or downsell themselves versus, like what level they want. But if you can kind of get them to shop your brand versus shop Amazon, then they're looking at your products, not on the competition. And then on that same note, if you're going to, if you're selling a product that's more consolidative, like maybe it's a supplement and you've got to kind of walk someone through why they need it, how it works, what supplement stack they should be using it with, then maybe that's leaning towards A plus content and building that from a more robust standpoint or even doing the same sponsored brand to store strategy with a collection, but making it focused on that product. But you're kind of trying to figure out where's the customer coming from, what level intent are they actually coming to Amazon with? And then what do you need to teach them at that moment to get them over the, over the edge to get the conversion.
- [08:30]
Eric
Very cool, very nice. What else would we add here about how to effectively merchandise our, our products on Amazon?
- [08:38]
Clifford
I think tying into what you just said there, Rob, is each of those scenarios you're going to merchandise differently. So you kind of mentioned a lot of the ad strategy part behind it and like prioritizing the store, prioritizing the A. But that also means that in the scenario where you're selling the commodity, it likely doesn't make sense to have a lot of those variations and things combined. Because a really clear example is like kitchen gadgets on Amazon. Like if you're selling a garlic press, like probably doesn't make a ton of sense to put the garlic press with a milk frother. If, like those are the things your brand specializes in, those are pretty different products, they don't make a lot of sense to go together. But if you're selling seven different kinds of garlic press and it makes sense for someone to shop around them, that might make a little bit more sense. But you're still within this weird niche where as you said, like in a fashion category, someone could buy shorts and a shirt and shoes and things. And these are all different categories on Amazon. But there might be a merchandising strategy where you're doing bundles together or you're figuring out variations and things to ways to utilize the merchandising tools that you have on Amazon to position them to make the most of that click that you got. Because if it's a sponsor brand ad that's going to your store, you can make your store look amazing. But if there's still a lot of individual listings, it still might be hard to buy that on your store. Like, you can't make it the same as your DTC site a lot of the time. It can't be a nice, simple build your own bundle type of thing and save 10%. Like you can't do some of these things on Amazon. Or you have to find creative ways to utilize promotions and bundling and virtual bundling to get to that point, if that's what you're trying to do. But that whole side requires a lot of thought. If you just take the typical Amazon playbook of, okay, here's our main keyword and we run sponsored product and we try to rank up and you have 40 products that are all trying to rank up for that same keyword, you're going to get slaughtered.
- [10:41]
Eric
I imagine this is complicated when you're on Amazon's vendor program as well. Last time we spoke, we went deep on biosteel. I'm just trying to buy a new giant jug of biosteel right now. Their, their pricing is all different. It's hard to find certain flavors. I think, I think they've done a probably good job of the most desirable flavors. They price up by quite a bit, which is frustrating as a consumer, but it seems like it just should be easier to find the variations there. And they. Talking with bioseal, he was sort of like saying that Amazon really controls that.
- [11:14]
Clifford
Is that true on the vendor side? It's kind of up to you as a vendor, how much you want to let Amazon do it. I would say is the best way to put it. You can just sell to Amazon. You throw them some imagery of like, here's what we want you to put on there and they'll kind of handle it all. For brands that we manage that are in the vendor side, we have Amazon touch very little. Because in all honesty, those vendor managers, those Amazon vendor services reps, they're different overseas specialists that you get hooked into. Like they are managing a lot of brands. Their best interest is to make Amazon money. It's not really to make you money. Now they have targets aligned with your brand. These vendor managers do have targets for their categories. They do care a little, but they're not going to take the time to merchandise your brand the way that you. It should probably be merchandised if you have a small catalog and it's simple. Yeah, maybe it's not too hard to screw up, but as you're describing, if you have a lot of products and these ones should maybe be together and these ones shouldn't and whatnot, and if you just let Amazon do it, that's fine, Amazon will Sell some of your product and it will just act as a sales channel that picks up those people who are specifically searching for you and who have the patience to go through it on there. Or maybe you purposely just want to sell to Amazon to make some quick bucks on the wholesale side and you don't want them to buy on Amazon at all and you want them to go to your website in the end, hey, let Amazon do it. Probably because it'll be a frustrating experience for the customers and your branded shoppers will probably bounce off. But if like you actually want to scale up Amazon and make it a true profitable sales channel that actually grows and contributes to your bottom line, you take advantage of the customers that are there, then.
- [13:09]
Rob
Yeah. And create a good customer experience for like the, the customers that do go there. Because I've had the same frustration as you, Eric. Like trying to, trying to buy it is like they're all different price points and like the variations aren't set up nicely. Which, and I mean it depends how they want to approach Amazon as a channel. Like if they do want to just be super hands off, generate some revenue, then like 100, just treat it like it is. Sell to Amazon and focus your bandwidth elsewhere if you've got more important projects to focus on. But as Clifford said, there is an opportunity to lean into it and really make it scalable and a meaningful part of the business as well.
- [13:45]
Eric
And part of that is onto point number three, which is just really how important it is to create an on brand and aesthetically strong listing. What are our thoughts about that?
- [13:54]
Rob
Yeah, so super key to do that and that sounds really simple, but one example here that can't actually see whether they're doing it right or wrong without seeing the, the data behind the account and like where all their traffic's coming from. But two players like that I'm sure most people heard of but Dr. Squatch and Manscaped. So I don't know about you, but the first thing I think of with both of those brands is like some of the cheeky fun advertising they've done. Like Dr. Squatch's funny videos manscaped like some of their Instagram content and the jokes they make that and Clifford noticed this. So credit to him is both of those brands don't bring a lot of that like cheeky, fun branding into their Amazon despite having a very esthetically pleasing on brand Amazon presence. And why I don't think I can say whether that's right or wrong is because if they're primarily converting on maybe branded Traffic, for example, they might just be focused on convincing those people that like, hey, we're not just fun branding, we're actually a quality product. So they're actually focusing on product, they're focusing on details or focusing on specs rather than just brand. But on the flip side, if a lot of their traffic is coming from generic terms, then I would say they should lean into the brand more. They should lean into that cheeky, that funness. And it still includes some of the product details, but because then they're differentiating from the other products that are just selling based on pure product like specs. And this kind of depends on where, where is Amazon fit in their wider funnel? Where's their current traffic coming from? Are they leaning into growth? They just want to just capture. It's like branded traffic where what's happening there? And I can't speak to that without talking to their CMO and understanding this, like, what's the goal of Amazon for them? But it is an interesting thing. We know for Clifford knows Nice.
- [15:41]
Eric
And yeah, it really depends on how much they've invested into that brand experience. And you want it mirrored on your, on your Amazon store if you're investing on it elsewhere.
- [15:49]
Clifford
What's, what's funny is if you talk to the marketing teams, like the people who are doing the advertising side of a lot of larger brands who have this level of like, like we only know Dr. Squatch and Manscaped like that because they've spent, you know, millions and millions of dollars over time to get our attention and they've got it true Classic stands out as another one in that same kind of domain of like, their ads have a feel to them and I recognize them when I see them. But one, one really big example that was on Amazon in a big way. It still are, of course, but was the Michael Cera Sarah V ads they ran Amazon advertising. They were on front page of Amazon for a while, like on the homepage. They had ads all over Amazon. So likely DSP ads all over Amazon with Michael Cera in them. But their listings, if I remember right, it could be wrong. Sarah Vase. So if you're listening, you know, hey, take it easy. It was a while ago, but from what I remember, their listings didn't have him anywhere in it. They maintained the same. Just like, here's the product, here's our brand, this is what it is. And I don't see any real reason not to take your marketing angles and bring them into your listings, bring them into your A plus content to keep that experience consistent Some, some brands will take it as far as going into the store. Like they'll go ads and store. Typically all that side of Amazon is handled by Amazon ad reps. And that's likely why a lot of it maintains consistent. Whereas the listing side and the A plus and whatnot is handled by Amazon catalog people and whatnot. And they don't change it as much. But reality is like it is a little storefront in itself. When you're on someone's product page, that product page, especially if you have multiple variations, you want that experience to be relatively consistent. If you have such a big presence out there that's working for you and you've spent so much money on it, I don't see a real reason why not to just throw one image into your carousel or throw Michael Cera at the top of your A content or something to keep that kind of consistency between it other than it being frustrating to work with. Changing out images all the time on your listings does kind of suck. Amazon's backend for this is a nightmare and annoying. So if that's the reason A, I'm with you.
- [18:09]
Rob
Yeah, but I know, I think it's, it's a good point to have that like thread that connects like first touch top of funnel through to like bottom of funnel purchase. And it doesn't have to be the exact same thing, but having like a thread of similarity that like people recognize throughout that process creates cohesiveness and it'll.
- [18:29]
Eric
Make you stand out on Amazon where everything is. You know, a lot of people aren't doing that. Right. A lot of people expect like a very bare bones brand experience on Amazon. And if you're providing a thread that connects to what people brought you there, then you're gonna that it's gonna help with conversions. Obviously, even if it's Michael Sarah, which Clifford, I think you got a Michael Sarah thing going on a little bit. You're like a more handsome Michael Sarah.
- [18:54]
Clifford
More handsome Michael. Wow. I have heard the Michael Sarah thing before, but usually not with more handsome put in front of it.
- [19:02]
Eric
Nice. And I think I jumped ahead with some of the bio seal commentary there about making it a little bit easier to shop. But is there anything else about the ease of merchandising that you want to add?
- [19:14]
Rob
I think, I mean clever hit upon a bunch of the variation stuff at the start too. Like Clover. Anything else to add there? Really just make it kind of make it easy for a customer to choose what they want and see what's there. Like making sure the thumbnails make Sense making sure the hero images like and imagery changes with different variations so someone doesn't accidentally buy the wrong product. Yeah. Covered. Anything else?
- [19:36]
Clifford
Yeah, they're all small things, but it's true. Like making sure the titles change. Some categories they take only the parent title and not the children title. So make sure your parent title makes sense for someone that they don't see the children titled. Like, it's crazy to say but like just shop your stuff. Like just literally search the keyword that you think people will search that you want them to find you with, not your branded one because your branded customers will probably find you. But like, I mean if you're a big enough brand, sure, search your branded one, see what comes up, see what it looks like. How hard is it to find you? Do it in an incognito window. Do it with a vpn. Like do it from a different zip code, do it from your phone, try an iPad. Like, just shop it. And be honest. Like people are so annoyingly dishonest about their own brand on Amazon. Like, no, it looks fine, looks great. It's the way we want it to look. Like, it took me like nine clicks to find what I wanted and your competitor took me one. So like there's a big difference.
- [20:36]
Rob
Better yet, like grab like a girlfriend, a partner, a friend unfamiliar to the brand and like sit, sit behind them and just tell them, go to Amazon, search this keyword and like start clicking around and see what they do and. Or put them on the listing and say like you're trying to buy this product and see how long how the journey it takes them to get to actually adding to cart and whether it's seamless and makes sense or whether they struggle.
- [20:59]
Eric
You got to lean into, into the seamlessness because it is the most seamless channel. That's the reason, that's the reason I don't go to the bio seal website is just because it's two clicks away to. Well, it's actually a little bit more on bioseals listening, but it's just to buy it is. Is just so easy and so you got to lean into that ease.
- [21:16]
Rob
Yeah, for sure.
- [21:17]
Eric
Very cool. I. I know our, the tariff situation has been. We have a reprieve from tariffs, but it didn't look. Do you guys have any commentary on what tariffs were looking like they might do to any of our Amazon clients, any of the Amazon businesses? What, what kind of preparations were you guys making, if any?
- [21:38]
Rob
I mean, it varies on brand. Like we've got some brands that obviously manufacture overseas, some in the states, some's a mix. So really I think understanding where efficiencies are at keeping an eye on like the tariff situation under and like we did the analysis on looking through all of our clients to understand where they do manufacture, who's going to be impacted most. But then it's going to be like seeing how the Amazon market reacts to it. We're probably going to see some overseas manufacturers raise price that obviously makes like US manufacturing more competitive. But then at that point does it make sense to raise price on those products to just make more margin and since consumers are already primed to pay more for US made goods, overseas goods. Yeah. So I think we will see probably more pressure on profitability and efficiencies as they come in because if cogs goes up then that just either squeezes your ad budget. Well, squeezes your ad budget down or you raise price where it's conversion rate unless everybody raises price and then conversion is going to be the same. So there's a lot of different ways it could go. I think it's just going to be having the ad structures set up and ready to make changes and adjust to the market as changes happen.
- [22:51]
Clifford
And the Canadian and Mexican ones might be paused, but the Chinese tariffs are still happening. And it's not just the 10% tariff. It's that they're not letting them use the de minimis anymore, which people keep calling a loophole. I don't think it's ever been a loophole. It's there on purpose. It's just like they don't want to deal with customs with stuff that's below $800. So. But I can tell you from my own experience and from looking at a lot of ways that brand ship stuff in, not just does that butcher Temu and Shein and a whole bunch of these that were using the de minimis. Loophole, loophole. I did it too, using the de minimis to get around having like to allow their shipping to make sense to come into the U.S. but the way that brands restocked their Amazon, they would send in 40, 50 shipments that were all $800 or below to avoid having to pay customs or duties fees on them and like save a lot of money on that like a lot from not having to send in pallets and whatnot over $800. So that I think is a really big deal for the competitive landscape on Amazon. It's that really doesn't for the most part, as far as I'm mostly aware affect most actual US based brands. Of course the private labelers are going to be up in arms because they do exactly that method of making sure their shipments are under $800. But brands that ship in Chinese ingredients or Chinese supplies and then they use it and they build the product in the US or even those that just ship in a large quantity from China all at once, they'll see the 10 increase, but they won't be affected by that de minimis change. And Temu and Shein getting gutted from it. And a big part of TikTok Shop probably, and all of those other Amazon sellers that were relying on it might actually be a positive for a lot of them, because that 10% increase is nothing compared to how much they're going to have to pay with customs and duties when they have to be over the $800 now.
- [24:58]
Eric
Interesting. Well, let's continue to monitor thanks for the merchandising chat today, guys. We'll catch up again soon.
- [25:05]
Clifford
Awesome.
- [25:05]
Rob
Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it.
- [25:12]
Eric
Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're not getting the DTC newsletter, you can subscribe for free at directtoconsumer co. And if you want to learn more about Pilothouse's all killer no filler services, take off to Pilothouse Co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the DTC podcast. We'll see you next time.