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- [00:00]
A
I wouldn't say I love ChatGPT, but I really am quite fond of it.
- [00:04]
B
As a senior creative manager, how are you using AI to impress your clients? Create great work, all that.
- [00:11]
A
ChatGPT's release operator, it just kind of solves that last step. It's a real time suck to go cruise the Internet to find inspiration. With ChatGPT, you can just explain what you're going for. Time's the ultimate currency. If you have mechanisms and stuff that buy you more time. Instead of having to work 12 hours a day, I can use ChatGPT to work 8 hours a day and get just as much work done as if I had been doing 12. Since that time is like the most valuable asset to people. Offering them systems to give them time back is the ultimate business model.
- [00:49]
B
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- [02:00]
A
Doing well. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
- [02:02]
B
You mentioned your potty training. Your son. You can't use AI on that.
- [02:05]
A
Yeah, well, actually, you know, I was able to ask chad for like 8020, give me the Pareto principle on the book. Holy crap, Potty training. And it did quite a good job. So my wife was pleased about that.
- [02:18]
B
I like that. I love that idea. There's so many Books, I feel like, especially like, not self help, but like, you know, those kind of productive books quite often can be boiled down to get the idea of them in a lot shorter time, compressing the amount of information to its, like, vital note. And I feel like that's a little bit about what we're talking about today, about how you're using AI.
- [02:39]
A
Yeah, I think today I'd love to talk about all the ways I'm just trying to compress my, my busy work as much as possible so I can take on more opportunities and then just deliver higher quality with compression at the same time.
- [02:50]
B
So it really reminds me that I've maybe brought this up on the podcast before, but I had a conversation with my brother who's worked at Shopify for years. About three months ago. He had become known on his team as the person who was like most adept at AI. He was using it for all these things. He was getting a lot of accolades. It was do it. It was doing great. And he was like, I love this sweet spot because it's like right now I'm in this space where I'm using AI and it's like accelerating my, my workflows and compressing everything I need to do. But he's like, it's only a matter of time before this kind of mindset gets built into the foundation of the company. And it was probably like two weeks ago that I saw Harley or maybe to, talking on Twitter about how it's like now an expectation at the company that everyone uses AI to compress their busy work so that they can focus on more revenue generating, creative things that humans can do. And so he was like, dope, but it's inevitable, right?
- [03:42]
A
Yeah, it's inevitable. I think it's like, I mean, organizations are realizing it's a major competitive advantage if you have, you know, your teams leveraging it as much as they possibly can because, like, it's just getting better and better every day. It's like crazy. Every time I come on the podcast, I'm always like, oh, it's just gotten so much better. And I just feel it, you know, it's just like. I wouldn't say I love ChatGPT, but I really am quite fond of it.
- [04:04]
B
Well, what's crazy about it too is how much I was just hearing. Maybe it was the all in pod. It was a clip from something just talking about how the different generations are using AI and how like younger people are really using it, like not only for their work, but like they're using it as their therapist. In a lot of ways. Like the amount that my chatgpt knows about me now because I. Yeah. And it's amazing the level it's willing to help you.
- [04:29]
A
Yeah, I mean, I've done that. I am one of those people. I've created like a custom GPT that's, you know, trained on a few of my favorite psychologists and I gave it instructions on how to, you know, always prompt a leading question to kind of dive deeper. And, and a lot of times I don't share too much personal information, but I will go to it with like, you know, little issues that I have or if I'm like, concerned about something or if I'm confused on how to handle a certain situation. And yeah, it's like increasing my emotional intelligence because you can only go see a therapist, say, you know, if you, you know, once a. Once a week for an hour. Whereas, like, I could be in like a slight disar, like an argument with my, my wife or my partner, and I can quickly just chat with it, go for a walk and just chat on my phone. I use like the microphone button so I can just talk to it, dictate and, and then it'll just give me some insights and I can be like, hey, steel man her position or steel man my position or. And yeah, it's crazy. And then I can go back to her and be like, hey, I've, like, I've worked through this. This is how I think we should go about it. And, and just like our ability to like, work through these things has gotten better. So it's been helpful with a one year old at home.
- [05:35]
B
So it's a really hopeful example too, because it's this idea that I will eventually make humans even more human. It's not going to replace humans, but maybe it'll help us be more in touch with our emotions, our creativity, all the things that make humans so special. So that's a very broad AI point now. Now back to brass tacks. As a senior creative manager, how are you using AI to impress your clients, create great work, all that.
- [06:00]
A
Yeah. So I think, I mean, I may have mentioned this before on the podcast, but I'm, I'm a huge fan of Firefly, which is like a call transcript AI. And the workflow that I like to do is, what I've found with client calls is, you know, you've got a lot of players in the room, they're throwing a lot of information at you, and you can either stay present by listening or you can take notes so that you don't Miss anything. And I feel like there's a balance that you can have. And the great thing with the Firefly AI is what I'll do is if I have like, say, four or five conversations in a matter of like, two weeks, I'll grab all those transcripts and I'll put them all into one chat. And then that way that chat has all the context of like, what's happening on the account at that particular point in time. And then what I can do is I can start pulling screenshots from Slack as well. And I'll put that just to give it as much context as possible. And what that's just been able. Allow me to do is then I can ask it questions, be like, hey, what is this client really concerned about? What are some of these things that maybe I'm overlooking? And so instead of me having to guess or instead of me having to remember or look at like, scribbled notes, I can actually have like a conversation with the GPT on what was said in that call. And what that's been able, you know, what it's allowed me to do is, you know, just answer clients, you know, concerns, understand where they are, understand what's really, you know, driving the behavior that they're representing on their calls and who, who, who they're answering to. And you just get so much rich context from it that, yeah, it's just really been able, I've been able to, to crush a lot of, like, new client relationships and stuff like that just by having so much context because you can meet them where they are and then you can kind of take all their thoughts that they're just kind of spilling out on calls, and you kind of give it back to them in like an organized way that then they feel heard and understood. And then it gives you clear path to move forward on what you need to execute on. Super Cool. That's been a huge, A huge, huge one for me.
- [07:52]
B
Nice. That's. On the, on the operation side when it comes to actually creating ads, what have you been experimenting with these days?
- [08:01]
A
Yeah, so ChatGPT came out with their new image generation, which was a huge step forward.
- [08:06]
B
Like, yeah, it's, it can do hands.
- [08:08]
A
It can do hands. It can do like, it could do copy. Like, you can tell it to like, make mock ups of that. So this is the one way I love to do it is what I'll. What I'll do is, you know, I'll go. I love using motion. And motion has this section that is like brand intel, so you can easily go into brand intel and you can search other, you know, brands ad accounts and you can look for like static ads that are really inspiring or whatnot. Take those images. So just take the ad from, from there, chuck it into chat GPT, ask it to do. I usually use O3 for this and I'll ask it to reverse engineer. So basically I'll say can you analyze why this ad might be working for this brand? And it'll give me an analysis. And the great thing about the analysis is that not only is it's telling me things that maybe I already knew, but it's also telling me things that I might not have known. So then I'm learning a little bit about like oh I didn't think about that or like oh it's right the text hierarchy is doing this thing or the badges is performing in this way. So you can kind of learn a little bit by why that ads might performing. And so then I'll get the analysis, I'll read through the analysis, then I'll say okay, here's my brand. I want you to reverse engineer, take your analysis, reverse engineer and let's create an ad for, for our brand for this product. Here's the offer, here's the angle, here's the hook, whatever we want to do there. And then it'll create it and I'll say make it up in Dolly and it will make a really compelling looking ad based on that mock up. And so now what I've done is I've taken an ad from a competitor, I've analyzed it, I've made it for my brand now. And then what I can do once I get that image is I'll say okay, now I want a graphic designer to make that ad for me, put create a ticket description or create a task description for that for that image. So then it gives me that. So now I have the building blocks to give to a graphic designer. They've got the competitor ad, they've got a mock up for the brand and now they've got the ticket description. And that, that would have maybe taken me an hour to kind of think through for like one task like that. And now it's compressed it down to like maybe 15, 20 minutes. So then in like one hour of time I can maybe do three tasks. So it's like tripling my productivity. It's like really insane. I really love the image generation stuff. And if you find that some of the, another, another thing I'll, I'll riff on here is if you find like the images that are coming back from, from ChatGPT are a little fake looking and stuff. I love this AI tool called Magnific AI and it's an upscaler. And so you can take, you know, sometimes like mid Journey and ChatGPT, they'll give you images that look great, but they're kind of like, they're kind of. They almost look like plasticky or they look like kind of hyper real. Hyper real.
- [10:36]
B
Hyper real in a way that you can just tell is AI. They have a glow to them or whatever.
- [10:40]
A
Right? Yeah. For instance, I made an ad where it had like hands and the hands were so smooth, there was no wrinkles. Like the, the nails were perfect, stuff like that. Right. And you could just tell. But you use this magnificent AI to upscale it and it'll add all the subtle textures of like someone's wrinkles in their hands. It'll add little crud or like little hangnails on their nails. It'll just really bring it to life. And that's one way if, like, if you do want to use kind of AI imagery, imagery in your ads to kind of not fool people, but just at least make it not look like it's just. Oh, it's just pulled from the journey.
- [11:13]
B
Fill it out. I was wondering, like, what are the like, have you ever tried running the mock ups that you produce in Dall? E against the ones that our designers eventually pull? Or do our designers end up using elements, actual, like one for one elements from that? Or what are the reasons that you can't use the Dall? E mock ups?
- [11:31]
A
Dolly doesn't do a great job of product like images. So say I have like a product that has like a logo on it and stuff. And sometimes if it's like a pill jar, maybe it would work. But if it's like an actual kind of like product that's been designed and you know, looks a certain way, Dall? E is not going to execute on that like 100%. So it'll get like the, it'll get the font wrong on the product itself for like the brand, the logo or something like that. So there's just like little things where it's like you just can't really use it. I think for certain brands you probably could, but for most the situations I'm finding is like, it's just better to like use it as a mock up. Use it as like a. Here's a generalization idea for a custom idea board.
- [12:09]
B
Because you can, you can put like, I'm following this guy on TikTok right now and he's basically a famous photographer and he walks through some of these iconic, you know, fashion celebrity photo shoots that he's done and he first shows us all of the images that were in his like, dream board or like, okay, we were going for this, going for this, going for this, going for this. And I imagine that process is something you can really do in AI as well, where you just give all these different mood boards, all these different sort of like references, like you're like you're doing now with the competitor, but you could do it with all sorts of things.
- [12:37]
A
Yeah, it's a real time suck to go cruise the Internet to find inspiration. Like, that's probably the part that I hate the most about like, you know, trying to find the vibe or the thing. And with ChatGPT, you can just explain what you're going for, you know, or like, you can kind of say like, or help me create a similar vibe for all these different images. Like, I think it just does a better job rather than having to waste your time like picking through the Internet. It can just kind of do that for you. So.
- [13:04]
B
And are you doing this in a GPT you built or just in Raw Dog, chatgpt and Dall E?
- [13:10]
A
Yeah, so I usually do it in ChatGPT and depending on the client, if I have like a really nicely built out GPT for them and they have good brand guidelines. Because if they have like a brand guidelines that's a PDF and it's got all their brand colors and stuff like that, it'll pull some of that information and kind of integrate that into the creative. So, yeah, mostly it's done in ChatGPT. I feel like in the past it was kind of important to do the custom GPTs, whereas now all of a sudden it kind of seems like that's not as important. So, yeah, I think it's just a matter of, yeah, if I have the custom GPT, I'll probably do it in there. But I think the one thing about the custom GPTs that I'm finding is you can't switch models. So if you're in, say, a custom GPT you made for a brand, you can never switch to that O3 model. I think it's always stuck in 4.0 and that's good. But O3 is like, the reasoning models are really fantastic and especially for like, deeper thinking on like Persona or strategy work. So sometimes I like to jump between either a custom GPT and a regular one and just kind of make sure I have access to that O3.
- [14:16]
B
I was listening to a podcast the other day with the founder of Y Combinator and he was basically saying that within the next. I forget the timeframe, one, one year, three years, I don't know, was basically saying that all employees at high growth companies should have their own agent, basically doing what you're doing, but trained to do it without having to be prompted. So taking all your client calls and compressing them into the salient points, just basically reducing all the busy work, all the things that take you a long time, these agents should be running alongside you and doing those for you so you can be freed up for bigger work. What are you seeing in this Space?
- [14:53]
A
Yeah, so ChatGPT is released, Operator, and it's been available in the States since January and I think recently it's just opened up in Canada. And since I live in Canada, I haven't had too much experience playing with it, but I get a good understanding of what it can do. And I think, you know, from the way that I use ChatGPT and AI, it's, it's a lot of me prompting back and forth and then kind of like taking all that information and then, you know, transferring it to our like ClickUp space or, or whatever. And I feel like the operators. What that's going to do is it's going to open things up where it just kind of solves that last step where it's like, okay, I've used ChatGPT to do all these things for me and now I'm copying and pasting into our, you know, our browser, our workflow or whatever. I think the operator is just going to help close that loop at that final step. I mean, it's 200 bucks a month. And so if you can figure out how to like compress your work day even more with that, I think it's going to be worth 200 bucks a month for a lot of people. You know, I was thinking like, well, if I can take on instead of four clients, eight clients, well, that's like twice as much that I could potentially make. So I think like productivity will go through the roof with that. And I think it's still early days. I think it can kind of, you know, Operator. What it does is it'll actually create like a browser and it'll click through Things and it's using 04 and it's using O4 as like Image recognition to take like screenshots of a browser window and then it can like actually use the mouse and keyboard to fill out different sections on the web page and things like that. So filling out forms, pulling data, stuff like that. I think it's going to be really good. I mean, eventually you're probably going to have operators that can run Facebook ad accounts. You know, obviously there'll be like a human there, but for like building campaigns or like doing that kind of like busy work, I think you're going to have operators that can do that. So it's just a matter of time there. But it's pretty fascinating. And I think too the other thing I've heard was the all in podcast. They were chatting about this, I believe it was last week, maybe it was two weeks ago, but they were mentioning how it's going to really open up a lot of possibilities for businesses to send the AIs to do the work that they would never hire people for. So say you're a large company, you've got thousands of contracts, you're not going to hire a bunch of lawyers to go through all the words and all those contracts. So it's not really worth your, it's not really worth your time, time and money to do that. So but now with AI, it's like you can sick them on tasks that you would never want to hire humans for. And so then all of a sudden you're going to have this like these operators that are kind of working behind the scenes doing these like large scale tasks to really help the company's bottom line. So I think overall it's early stages, but it's going to be pretty, pretty remarkable.
- [17:31]
B
I like that. I guess you haven't played around with it too much yet. But I guess you've got to give it access to your accounts. Like you'd give it access to your ClickUp account, you'd give it access to various places where it can go find the information. Is that, that's part of it? I guess.
- [17:43]
A
I guess so, yeah. I would be making assumptions there. Like, I think because it's so early, what it does do a good job at is like coding. And then I think the other thing it would do a good job at is like, you know, there's a bunch of like apps for like Instacart and stuff. So you can say like, hey, my kid wants this for dinner. Can you find a recipe on this website and get me all the ingredients in Instacart? I already have butter, I already have, you know, the pasta, but I need everything else. And it'll go, and it'll go on to Instacart. It'll add all the things in Instacart. It'll Submit the order and then that'll get shipped to your house. So it's like, that's kind of how it's being used right now a lot. I think a lot of people are also using it for like travel. So they're being like, hey, I want the best deals on this. Can you go search the web? So it's kind of like those kind of tasks at this point. But I think once you can figure out how to, yeah. Let it into some of these, these websites and get it to do some of these work tasks, I think it'll be a, a huge unlock for people.
- [18:40]
B
My, My mind goes to. We need, we want to get all of our transcripts up on all the 500 podcasts we've done. And we could tell someone to spend a week doing that. Potentially that would be a great task. Just, you know, just yeoman's work. Go find the transcript here, clean it up the way it needs to be cleaned up. Get it into the website here and just go. And that could be done in a matter of days, I'm sure. Less. Who knows?
- [18:59]
A
Yeah, exactly. I think that that's the sort of task where it's like, it's an excellent example because yeah, you could pay someone to do that and maybe it would take them a week, but you could maybe get the operator to do it and then it would just always do it. So it's like every time there's a transcript, it just goes and it fetches that and puts it where it needs to go and it's done.
- [19:19]
B
And you mentioned it. But then the next phase is full out. Everyone will have their own agent that's sort of tied to their hip and they'll be kind of controlling it. But eventually they'll be full out agent employees. Right. They'll come to your morning standup and they'll be. Or they'll be given, you know, the context, being given a very specific job and they'll just kind of quietly do it for 200 bucks a month. It's hard to beat.
- [19:40]
A
I mean, it makes sense because like the way that I'm using Firefly and the transcription, like if you can have an operator that's listening to all your calls as well, and then it can even prompt you to be like, hey, I heard you need this, this, this and done. Like, do you mind if I do that? And you just say, yeah, go for it. I'm going to focus on, on this or I need to deal with this. So it's going to happen. I think it's going to Happen quickly.
- [20:00]
B
Do you have any, like, that's kind of the end of our, like, practical AI discussion for today. But I'm just curious, like, for someone with it as much as you do, are you having any thoughts about, like. Because I feel like everything that we talk about with AI is just sort of like, it's almost like, it's like table. We're building the table. It's table stakes. Like, this is the stuff that's going to get done. We're going to get our, you know, busy work compressed. But have you had any thoughts about, like, where this is all going and like, any, any, like, high level. I just put you on the spot. But like, any thoughts about where, where this whole, this whole thing is going to.
- [20:33]
A
Well, let's play with that. I think. Well, I think where it's going is there's demand in the marketplace for replacing these tasks that are repetitive and boring. And even from a robotic standpoint, having a robot in your house that can do all the cleaning, do all the cooking, do all the grocery shopping, take your dog for a walk, do your laundry, like, that's, that's. There's an insane amount of demand for that because people don't want to have to do that. And if you have the money, you can maybe pay for a nanny, but if you can get a $20,000 robot to do that, then you're going to do that. And so I think ideally what that does is it frees up people's time to focus on new and interesting problems to solve. I think that's hopefully where it goes and that.
- [21:25]
B
Jetsons.
- [21:26]
A
Yeah, it's like, it's like, you know, maybe we can just like solve bigger, more important problems because we're not having to deal with all the little things. And I think, like, it's going to be, it's going to be, it's going to be a fantastic teacher. Like, our kids are going to be able to learn way quicker with it. I, I think there's a certain part of me that uses chat GPT where it's like I'm just offloading a lot of the decision making and thought, like, sometimes when I use it, it's like, literally like I'm just, it's just replacing the decisions that I have to make and that's just like taking the burden. And I guess there is, like, value in decision making. There's value in critical thinking, there's value in all this stuff. So there's a part of me that doesn't want to lose that skill. But yeah, I Think it's just going to like, open things up for us to focus on a different set of problems.
- [22:16]
B
I hope so. I think the big change, and I've mentioned this before, but I think the big change will come when there's real persistence where there's like you have, you were talking about agents. That's, that's something that persists among your tasks and we'll learn probably about your workflows as it goes. But like, I come back to AI butler, but an AI butler that actually not just, you know, engages with you when you engage it in a chat, but is actually sort of actively, persistently, you know, helping you reach your goals or advising you or, you know, I feel like that that's where the real breakthroughs will come. And I think robotics is a, is a great point. And I actually saw, I don't, I don't know if it was AI generated, but it was, it was a robot that was cleaning and I think it was, or maybe it was like doing the dishes or something like that. And it's like, it's amazing how far that technology, that tactile stuff has come along. I was, it's just the amount on like a modern person's plate when it comes to like, eating healthy, keeping themselves healthy, keeping their clothes, their, their laundry done, keeping their apartment clean, keeping like all of this stuff. It's like there's almost no time for the modern, like, upwardly mobile individual to like to, to have that, that freedom or that time. So I'm interested to see the way, the way that frees us up. And I hope we don't become like a wall e society where we're all.
- [23:34]
A
Just like, yeah, I don't think so. I think like, time's the ultimate currency. And so if you have, if you have mechanisms and stuff, they buy you more time. You know, it's like, oh, instead of having to work 12 hours a day, I can use ChatGPT to work 8 hours a day and get just as much work done as if I had been doing 12. That frees up so much more time for me to spend with my family or for me to focus on other goals or creative endeavors or other business opportunities. You know, it's like, it's this compression of time that allows you to have freedom to do other things. And I think that's really where I'm excited for it to go. And that since that time is like the most valuable asset to people, offering them systems to give them time back is the ultimate business model.
- [24:20]
B
The interesting thing is where it goes to, I remember Sam Altman, like right when this was coming out, he made a quote about how he sees the cost of intelligence and energy he said are on a path towards near zero. And now I hear people talking about also like the cost of goods and services are on that same scale in a way, whether we're going to be 3D printing what we need from home, maybe we won't be buying it from China as much, you know, given some of the financial constraints that we're facing right now. But I'm really interested to see the cost of intelligence. You can see where that's going. You can see the cost of intelligence is going to go to zero. I'm really curious about what he knows about zero point energy or where we're going to get to a point where energy is at zero. I don't see how that'll happen.
- [25:00]
A
But yeah, I can touch on that. I think what I've heard, I've heard some influential people talk about energy requirements of AI and I think that's like the one thing that people don't really get. And even, I mean even from like, even like before AI, when it was just like going on Amazon, like for you to go on Amazon and search for something and maybe buy something like that costs energy. You know, that's like energy that goes to the server that then like makes this or you know, puts to push the order in. It's like, it's like all that stuff costs energy, right? And now that we have AI, the demand on energy is, is going to basically be exponential. And so that's, I think the real fear with all this is like, where's the energy come from and how do we get it so that we don't hit a ceiling? Or you know, I guess other countries, you know, become AI dominant because we don't have the energy to support the infrastructure of the AI. I don't know where it's going to come from. Obviously, you know, energy policy is not my forte, but I think like, you know, I think nuclear or like small nuclear reactors I think is probably where, where it's going to go. And, and then maybe AI is what opens up the technology to have more sustainable energy sources like fusion or, or something along those lines. So it's kind of like maybe we use AI to solve that problem. But I think what they're saying is, you know, the demand of these large servers that are full of these GPUs that are like, you know, basically doing a lot of people's jobs is going to be Insane. And so we need to have the energy in order to continue growing and continue advancing this technology.
- [26:38]
B
So what did, what did Altman say a couple weeks ago? That the, the cost of people saying please and thank you to chat GPT was costing them billions a year. Just like, just to be polite. It's. It costs billions.
- [26:50]
A
I know. And I was thinking, I was like, I wonder if that's a good thing to say or bad because, like, is that just gonna make people not say thank you or is that gonna be like, oh, yeah, say thank you more? So I don't, I don't know, but it definitely made me second guess. I like being friendly to the GPT. I don't know about you, but I like saying like, oh, thanks for that. That was really helpful.
- [27:05]
B
I'm just amazed at how it, how willing it is. So for I'm. I enjoy the odd rabbit hole and the amount that ChatGPT will like, not only like, facilitate that, but like, push me deeper down it. Like the amount that it's willing to say like, oh, by the way, you know, you just learned about this. Would you. That's kind of scary. Would you also like to learn about this, this and this? Like, the way it kind of proposed propels you and it, like. And I've always, like, I gut check it. I'm like, are you saying this because you know me or, and you know what I want to hear, or are you saying this like, more objectively? And it's like, well, it's a bit of both. I know what you. I know you, but I also know that this is the truth and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, it's, it is, it's. It's an. The relationship we're all developing with this is quite interesting.
- [27:49]
A
Yeah, there's some great prompts that you can ask it. For example, like, you know, if you have your own ChatGPT account, you use it a ton. You know, you can ask it things like, based on everything that we've talked about and everything you know about me, can you tell me some of the blind spots that you don't think I know or that you think I need to be aware of in order to whatever, advance my career or become a better person, whatnot, and it'll give you some, like, really, it's given me some really insightful tips. Like, you know, for example, I have like a need to know all the information before I start executing on something. And it's just like, you know, you could just kind of like just go in and fail as fail forward as they say. So, you know, it's, I think it's just that thing. It's just like, it's like having this really smart compadre, a friend that's just like helping you with your blind spots and how to move through life more efficiently and with more knowledge because you don't know what you don't know and it can really help you know things that you had no idea about.
- [28:43]
B
It's a brave new world. Very excited for it. Thank you for coming on chatting AI today. We'll have you back on soon.
- [28:48]
A
Yeah, my pleasure.
- [28:56]
B
Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're not getting the DTC newsletter, you can subscribe for free at directtoconsumer co. And if you want to learn more about Pilothouse's all killer no filler services, take off to Pilothouse Co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the DTC podcast. We'll see you next time.