Ep 517: How Back to Nature Repositioned Away from “Plant-Based” to Drive Shelf Velocity

Summary

DTC Podcast Episode 517: How Back to Nature Repositioned Away from “Plant-Based” to Drive Shelf Velocity

Host: Eric Dick
Guest: Andrea Ferber, Head of Marketing at Back to Nature
Release Date: June 16, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 517 of the DTC Podcast, Eric Dick engages in a comprehensive discussion with Andrea Ferber, the Head of Marketing at Back to Nature. The conversation delves into the strategic rebranding of Back to Nature from a "Plant-Based" focus to a broader "Better for You" positioning aimed at enhancing shelf velocity and driving consumer engagement.

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Background and Andrea's Journey

Andrea Ferber brings a wealth of experience from her tenure at prominent food companies, including General Mills, Schwans Foods, and Jack Links. Her strategic acumen was pivotal in her transition to Back to Nature following its acquisition by Barilla in 2023.

Andrea Ferber [04:48]: "We have to stay focused on our core. We have to stay focused on what our brand stands for and solidifying that because we have so much runway by just focusing on what we have today as a brand versus getting distracted by the new."

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The Need for Rebranding

When Barilla acquired Back to Nature, the brand was heavily positioned around being plant-based, a strategy initially mounted under B&G Foods in 2020. However, consumer research revealed that the "plant-based" label was not resonating as intended, often carrying negative associations and limiting the brand's appeal.

Andrea Ferber [04:24]: "Plant-based was actually a negative association. So less people would buy the brand because of that positioning. And it's really not ownable and it's not super authentic."

Recognizing the need for growth, Andrea spearheaded a rebranding initiative to reposition Back to Nature as a "Better for You" brand, focusing on simplicity, taste, and authentic ingredient transparency without abandoning the plant-based ethos entirely.

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Market Insights: Cookies vs. Crackers

Andrea provided insightful analysis into the distinct dynamics of the cookie and cracker segments:

• Crackers: Facing a decline, with consumers shifting to other salty snacks. However, the "Better for You" segment within crackers, emphasizing gluten-free and alternative grains, is performing better. Brands are increasingly adopting flavor-driven, snackable formats to revive the category.

  Andrea Ferber [12:09]: "Crackers are going through a tough time. We're seeing a lot of gluten-free, a lot of alternative grains, and now more flavor-driven, taste-driven snackable formats."

• Cookies: An impulse-driven category experiencing growth, primarily through flavor innovations. Brands like Oreo exemplify the continuous introduction of new flavors to maintain consumer interest.

  Andrea Ferber [13:13]: "Cookies are more impulsive, emotionally driven. You have to constantly get on consumers' list of 'What's the new flavor?'"

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Strategic Rebranding Process

The rebranding journey was intensive, involving a blend of quantitative and qualitative research, including consumer interviews and analysis of online feedback such as Amazon reviews. This comprehensive approach ground the rebranding strategy in authentic consumer insights.

Andrea Ferber [08:26]: "We went on a learning journey with consumers, identifying that the brand was not positioned in a way that could drive growth."

The new positioning centers around "Better for You," emphasizing:

1. Taste and Brand Appeal: Leading with flavorful and enjoyable products rather than solely focusing on product benefits.
2. Joy and Emotion: Infusing joy into functional categories like crackers to create emotional connections.
3. Heritage and Nostalgia: Leveraging the brand's history since the 1960s to build a distinct and authentic brand identity.

Andrea Ferber [16:07]: "Bring joy to snack time, more easygoing, laidback approach to these categories that we play in. Those are elements of the brand that we are going to hit over consumers' heads repeatedly."

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Challenges and Mitigation

The rebrand posed significant challenges, notably the risk of consumer confusion and potential loss of existing customers accustomed to the old packaging and messaging.

Andrea Ferber [18:21]: "We have confusion at shelf because you used to look for the white box with the green leaf. We've tried to mitigate it by maintaining taste consistency and communicating the unchanged product quality."

To address these challenges, the marketing strategy focuses on:

• Digital and OTT Campaigns: Launching the first national campaign through Over-the-Top (OTT) platforms to build broader awareness.
• Social Influencers: Leveraging influencers to reach diverse consumer segments.
• Front-of-Pack Messaging: Highlighting "Better for You" and key ingredient benefits on the front of the packaging, while retaining plant-based attributes on the side panels.

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Marketing Strategies and Campaigns

Back to Nature's marketing strategy post-rebrand emphasizes distinctiveness and memory building, drawing inspiration from Byron Sharp's "How Brands Grow."

Andrea Ferber [31:51]: "What does it take to build a brand is very different than what it takes for you to just grow your sales."

Key elements include:

• Brand Visibility: Ensuring the new packaging and branding are memorable and distinct.
• Taste Appeal: Maintaining high product quality to foster consumer loyalty.
• Heritage and Nostalgia: Utilizing the brand's long-standing history to create emotional connections.

The upcoming OTT campaign will focus on showcasing the new packaging and taste appeal without heavy storytelling, aiming to establish a strong visual identity.

Andrea Ferber [22:50]: "We are pushing harder into pack fame and brand and taste appeal. That's the direction we're going."

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Measuring Success

Andrea outlined the key metrics used to evaluate the effectiveness of the rebrand:

• Shelf Velocity: Monitoring product movement on shelves to ensure continued consumer purchase.
• Reach and Frequency: Assessing the breadth and consistency of the marketing campaigns.
• Engagement Metrics: Evaluating consumer interactions and responses to marketing efforts.

Andrea Ferber [23:40]: "We are watching velocities like a hawk to make sure we're still being picked up by consumers."

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Product Simplification and Innovation

Aligned with the "Simplify to Scale" philosophy, Back to Nature streamlined its portfolio from 40 SKUs across four categories to a more focused range that aligns with the new brand positioning. This consolidation ensures better resource allocation and brand consistency.

Andrea Ferber [25:38]: "We have a portfolio that we feel really good about that delivers on the taste and the better-for-you elements that we want to stand for."

While resisting the urge to chase every new trend, Back to Nature remains open to innovation that aligns with its core values.

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Insights from Natural Product Expo West

Andrea shared observations from the Natural Product Expo West, highlighting the saturation of protein and fiber trends. Contrasting these with Back to Nature's approach of ingredient simplicity, she emphasized the brand's commitment to transparency and authenticity.

Andrea Ferber [28:09]: "We were among the few brands that weren't adding anything. We wanted a cracker that you can read every ingredient."

This focus differentiates Back to Nature in a crowded market, appealing to consumers seeking straightforward and trustworthy products.

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Future Outlook and E-commerce

Recognizing the growing role of e-commerce, Back to Nature plans to expand its online presence, particularly on platforms like Amazon and Walmart. This strategic move aims to tap into the increasing consumer preference for online grocery shopping and enhance accessibility.

Andrea Ferber [30:01]: "E-commerce will definitely play a bigger role for us in the next couple of years."

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Advice for CPG Brands

Andrea emphasized the importance of boldness and distinctiveness in branding, encouraging brands to take calculated risks to build strong memory structures and emotional connections with consumers.

Andrea Ferber [31:51]: "Don't get afraid to lean in and take the risk if you really want the growth. Focus on the long-term brand you're trying to build."

She also recommended Byron Sharp's "How Brands Grow" for its valuable insights on brand distinctiveness and memory building.

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Conclusion

The rebranding of Back to Nature represents a strategic pivot towards a more inclusive and emotionally resonant brand identity. By moving beyond the narrow "plant-based" label and embracing a "Better for You" philosophy, Back to Nature aims to enhance shelf velocity, broaden its consumer base, and strengthen its position in the competitive snack market. Andrea Ferber's insights provide a valuable roadmap for CPG brands contemplating similar strategic shifts.

For more information and to explore the new Back to Nature product line, visit backtonaturefoods.com.

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Notable Quotes:

• Andrea Ferber [04:24]:
  “Plant-based was actually a negative association. So less people would buy the brand because of that positioning.”

• Andrea Ferber [08:26]:
  “We went on a learning journey with consumers, identifying that the brand was not positioned in a way that could drive growth.”

• Andrea Ferber [16:07]:
  “Bring joy to snack time, more easygoing, laidback approach to these categories that we play in.”

• Andrea Ferber [31:51]:
  “Don't get afraid to lean in and take the risk if you really want the growth.”

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Connect with Andrea Ferber:

• LinkedIn: Andrea Ferber

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This episode was produced by DTC Newsletter and Podcast. Subscribe to their newsletter for weekly insights on direct-to-consumer e-commerce strategies.

Transcript

[Andrea Ferber]

When we built the Back2nature team, we went on a consumer learning journey. The trend line did not look good, so we knew we had to do something. We didn't know exactly what. Coming from big cpg, you could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars learning from consumers. We didn't have that luxury. So we did a combination of what's.

[Eric Dick]

Happening right now in the cookie and cracker segment of the market.

[Andrea Ferber]

Two different things. It is risky what we did. We broke every rule, like don't do this when you redesign. Don't this we did. We changed everything. I'm a huge fan of simplify to scale. I came in and had a really complex portfolio. We play in four categories. We have 40 SKUs. We need to simplify before we can scale the brand.

[Eric Dick]

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[Andrea Ferber]

It's in the US it is one of the the largest pasta brand globally. It's one of the largest pasta and bakery brands.

[Eric Dick]

Before we get into Back to Nature, because what we're going to talk about today is the Back to Nature rebrand that you've kind of architected and its impact on retail, which is still to be determined. A little bit, yes. But I wanted to just start a little bit about Barilla because it's such an interesting company. I know you joined in mid-2023 back to nature as one of the first five employees after Barilla Acquired the brand. But I was just doing a little googling on Barilla and seeing that they started in 1877. Now that is the definition of a legacy CPG brand.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah. Family owned over the generations, continues to be family owned. Barilla globally is a bakery, has a broad portfolio. Bakery, pasta in the US which is what we all know them for. They were looking to expand their portfolio and get into baking in the US which is what led to the acquisition of Back to nature in 2023.

[Eric Dick]

So it was a strategic acquisition. Talk to me a little bit about Back to Nature's trajectory or their sort of position at the time of that acquisition.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, great question. So when they acquired the brand, it had actually just gone through a rebrand a couple of years ago under the ownership of B and G Foods. They repositioned in 2020 to be a plant based snacking. So plant based cookies, crackers, granola and nuts. So when we acquired it, that was strong, plant based. Front of pack right below. Back to Nature was huge. Plant based. And when, when we built the Back to Nature team, acquired the brand, we went on a consumer learning journey. Let's learn as much as we possibly can about the consumer. Consumer that buys us today, that buys the brand today and also doesn't buy the brand. And what we learned is that plant based was actually a negative association. So less people would buy the brand because of that positioning. And it's really not, it's not ownable and it's not super authentic. Now there's some, you know, there's some places where it really is differentiated to be plant based. But it, it wasn't driving consumers to purchase the brand. It wasn't driving taste appeal. And so we made the decision, as you can see in the, the new brand that I know we'll talk about, we really, we didn't reformulate, we did not walk away from plant based, but we are leaning in with taste with benefits that support it. Like plant based.

[Eric Dick]

Super cool. I want to dive into the rebrand, but just, let's just do a little quick tour on your career and how you kind of found yourself as one of these, you know, one of these first five employees after the acquisition of Back to Nature.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yep. So I, so Andrea Ferber, head of marketing at Back to Nature currently, I've kind of done, I would say a roadshow or journey through food and in the Minneapolis area. So I live in Minneapolis. I started my career at General Mills, spent quite a bit of time there in different parts of the business across different brands and different channels. I then went to Schwann's food company. They own Red Baron. They now have a large Asian Frozen Asian portfolio. So I led the kind of integration of the Asian portfolio and repositioning of Frozen Asian, which is now booming. I left there and went to Jack Links to lead and build their emerging brands portfolio. So Jack Links Protein company has a lot of additional brands under the company is Halo, and that's what I led. And then that brought me here. You know, there's always this question of, like, was it, you know, was I looking for something? Was it luck? Because I feel like I have the best job of any marketer. And it was a little bit of luck and I think destiny, where the current CEO was playing tennis with one of my colleagues at Jack Links and my name came up and the rest was history. And I was employee five, the last one of our leadership team marketing, I guess, was the hardest to find. And that started our journey, building a team. We're based in Minneapolis. We operate independently of Barilla, so we have a team here. About half of our team is in Minneapolis, and then half of our team is remote. So we're a kind of mix, remote hybrid team.

[Eric Dick]

Talk to me just a little bit. You teased it there, but talk to me a little bit about the repositioning of Frozen Asian. How were things repositioned to be now booming?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, think five years ago, Frozen Asian was maybe egg rolls. And I can't even think of what else was even in the category. At the time. There wasn't a ton of private label. There was a couple of anchor. Anchor brands. It was more appetizers is what I would say, than anything else. At the time, I was at Schwan's. We had a small egg roll portfolio in Asian. We then got purchased by CJ Foods, which is a global Asian food company conglomerate, the Beyond Just Food company. And they had some additional brands within the Frozen Asian called bbgo, which is now a US Name in the category. So I was over Asian and actually desserts. And then when we got acquired, we built out a portfolio of Asian brands that would compete in the category and that would attract different consumers. That is now, I mean, if you walked into Frozen five years ago, it would maybe be, I don't. Half a door. And now if you walk in, I mean, there are a lot of brands, much more food forward, like food flavor, global experience. So it's really changed a lot. So I feel, you know, I had an opportunity to help build out what that vision looked like for our portfolio. And now to see how that's really grown. The category is impressive.

[Eric Dick]

So you get brought in to back to nature. And then what were your first moves on the marketing side? Did you know, obviously you maybe you had a sense that there needed to be a refresh, but talk to me about those the first few months there and how you gathered the data and how you actually made the decision to pivot.

[Andrea Ferber]

So, you know, acquiring the brand. We literally just acquired the brand. We did not acquire any people with the brand. So we had to learn. And that was my first. I would love to say 90 days, but it was more like 60 because we were moving, as, you know, quickly. We went on a learning journey, like I said, with consumers. And it wasn't a, you know, I coming from big cpg, you could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars learning from consumers. We didn't have that luxury. So we did a combination of consumer interviews where, you know, we definitely invested in learning and, you know, spending the dollars where it mattered. But then also just, I mean, there's a lot you can learn online, reading Amazon reviews, like, what are consumers saying about the brand? So it's a combination of research focus groups, you know, more like quant and qual, in addition to just trying to understand what consumers are saying about the brand. So did we know that we wanted to rebrand? We knew we needed to do something to generate growth. The brand was on a decline. It had just come off of a couple rounds of pricing. We're now post Covid. So, like, I mean, the trend line did not look good. And so we knew we had to do something. We didn't know exactly what. And so as we talk to consumers, we identified that there was one. The brand was not positioned in a way that really could drive growth. We are very niche consumer set that we were talking to and talking about. So we wanted. We definitely knew that we wanted to broaden that. You know, it took probably three months of just learning and conversations with our internal team, plus our agency partners. We had an agency partner that helped us through this that's been just an amazing, amazing partner to really unlock what was this repositioning. What did we want this brand to stand for? Which is where we identified better for you remix of America's classic snacks. That came from the portfolio that we had. We had a huge portfolio of like, what? What do we do with this portfolio? What do we stand for? And then what are consumers telling us is missing from the category. And it really was classic snacks that remind me of my childhood, but that don't have all the Junky, negative ingredients. And that was our sweet spot.

[Eric Dick]

So we just owned it and not plant based. Which is funny because I don't think in this category of crackers and cookies it's sort of like a, it's like a non sequitur in a way because it's like I didn't, oh, I didn't even think that I was eating a meat based product. Right. It just seems to be sort of out of place a little bit.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, yeah. And there is a segment again we did not reformulate. So we still are plant based and there is a very loyal, passionate group of our consumers that are maybe vegan or dairy free and value that. So we're not walking away from that but to talk to the broader subset of consumers in the world that are eating cookies and crackers. We are an amazingly tasty portfolio of products and that's what we wanted people to know and really connect with who we are as a brand. Not just shout product benefits.

[Eric Dick]

What's happening in the. It was funny in our pre interview we looked up with the. Where the word cracker came from.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, I learned a lot from that.

[Eric Dick]

A lot of basically in the 1800s it was, it was very onomatopoeic. It was the sound that when you eat these, these hardtack style products that, that were built to like last long, you know, a long period. But what's happening right now in the cookie and cracker segment of the market.

[Andrea Ferber]

Two different things because they really operate as two, they're two very different categories and how consumers engage with those categories are very different. So I'll start with crackers. You know, say crackers is going through a tough time. I think the category in, in total isn't doing great. There's been some challenges as consumers shift out of cat out of crackers and maybe into other snackable formats of salty snacks. Better for you within crackers is doing better than the overall category. You're seeing a lot of gluten free, a lot of alternative grain and that, you know, over the last couple years you really saw that shift. Now you are starting to see more flavor driven, taste driven snackable formats. Brands that are in crackers that are now offering the keyword there is snackable because crackers in and of themselves is not the most snackable format like you use it. Right. It's a medium utilitarian. Yep. It is a carrier of something.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah, that's right.

[Andrea Ferber]

And so to try to get into the more snacking space is where you see a lot of brands going now. Cookies Cookies. Right. Very different dynamics. Cookies are an impulse, more emotionally driven category. And you definitely do see better for you growing within the space, but you also still see the category as a whole growing. And a lot of that is flavor form. You don't see a ton of unique form innovation, but a lot of flavor. I mean, look at what Oreo does every couple months with flavor innovation. I mean, you see that because, because it is such an impulse driven category, you have to constantly get on consumers list. Like, what's the new flavor? I'll try it. I may have my loyals that I always have in my pantry, but I'll try a new flavor, you know, on occasion just because it's impulse and I want to keep, keep my, you know, snacking cookie desserts interesting.

[Eric Dick]

I just feel like cookies are just a bit more regular too. With crackers, it's like, oh, if I'm entertaining or if I'm in the mood to eat some cheese or all these other things. Whereas with cookies, it's like it's my daily cookie ration. I'm going to eat those cookies. Whether maybe it's impulse driven with like the variety of cookie I buy that week. But if I'm in the cookie zone, I'm getting cookies.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yep. And you almost always have them in your, in your cupboard or pantry, whatever it is.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah. Okay. So you do this research, you discover that plant based maybe isn't all it's cracked up to be. You're working with this great agency, which is a branding agency, Is that right?

[Andrea Ferber]

Correct.

[Eric Dick]

And then so talk to me about formulating this new identity and maybe how you kind of have gone to market with it.

[Andrea Ferber]

So we identified the space where our positioning is around better for you remix of classic snacks. And the other, the other aha moment that we had throughout this journey, I would say two things. One, there is a lack of joy that is especially within crackers. Like again, because it's, it's more of a functional item in your, in your day to day. You use it to put cheese on it or, or dip in something. It didn't have, it really didn't have a lot of like joy and emotion or energy within that category. Cookies are a little bit different, but we unlock this like we can bring joy to these categories without shouting product benefits. And then the third thing, so around the positioning bring joy is tapping into our heritage. I mean, we're a brand that's been around since 1960. Not a lot of brands can say that. And even though this brand has been handed off multiple times, to different food companies throughout the years. It still has a history and a heritage that is relevant and ownable. And we wanted to tap into that. So that was part of one of the pillars of our new positioning, was a really a nod to our, our heritage and nostalgia.

[Eric Dick]

And if you're, if, if you're listening to this on the podcast, go to backtownaturefoods.com to check out kind of what it looks like in our clips. We'll kind of cut in some of these images, but it really does. You've sort of captured that like 60s California nostalgic vibe really, really well.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah. Thank you. So we, so we locked that in and then we started on the journey of how creatively are we going to bring this to life? And as you know, I'm sure you have been a part of or experienced like it's a journey. It took us a lot of iterations. You know, I look back now at some of the, you know, some of the logos and colors that we were discussing and I am like, thank God we didn't launch with that. But it was, I mean, it was an iterative process. And then just now, two months ago, we launched the new brand look and feel to the world. And it's something that we've been working on for a year now. And it has been amazing, honestly, a career, a career moment that you can introduce something into the world that is so different from where we were before in such a unique and honorable way. Honestly, like, it is risky. What we did, we broke every rule, like, don't do this when you redesign. Don't do this. And we, we did, we changed everything because we felt like the brand really needed it without changing the product. We felt like every other element of the brand really needed a facelift. The reason for that in our goal, we have to get in consumer's mind, right? We, it is a competitive category. Our, our competition will always outspend us. We're a small brand and so we have to break through in a different way. We have to connect with consumers in a different way. And that really is what this new brand is, is attempting to do.

[Eric Dick]

I can see it being a risk, right, because people just get used to the products on their, you know, there's probably shelf blindness that happens. Oh, for sure, you're dealing with shelf blindness, but you're also dealing with your core customers who know where your products are, know what they look like. Maybe they care that they're plant based, maybe they don't. And so making sure that you don't Lose those customers in, in presenting something totally new must be a challenge.

[Andrea Ferber]

It is, very much. And we're in the midst of that. Like, we know there's confusion at shelf because you are, you go in, you look for the white box with the, you know, the green leaf. That's what we were before. And even, you know, to cause a consumer to pause for a moment on shelf, they might pick up something else. Oftentimes for us, private label, because private label looks very similar to what we, what our previous brand looked like. So that was a risk and we knew that and we've tried to mitigate it. You know, where we can put stuff on shelf, we have new looks, same taste on our pack. But we can't, you know, we can't be in every store and, and bring every consumer over to the new brand and give them confidence that we didn't change the. But we're working through that right now.

[Eric Dick]

Talk about how you chose to reposition the better for you angle from a plant based angle. How have you handled, you know, keeping that messaging there in that, in this new way?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, I think that's the other risk that we took. We moved so on the front of pack, we. Right. The way that we communicate better for you is keeping it real. Better for you means something different to every consumer. And we don't want to be inauthentic and what we mean by that. So keeping it real is kind of our brand vibe. More laid back, easy, easygoing way of saying like we're, we are trying our best to keep this as simple and real as possible where we can take things out like artificial flavors and colors and high fructose corn syrup. We are making sure that we keep those out of our products. We are non GMO verified. We are plant based. So that was our way of communicating that while leading with taste appeal and brand appeal on the front of pack and moving everything to the side.

[Eric Dick]

I can't see the side here, but does it still say plant based on the side?

[Andrea Ferber]

It does, yep. You think you need to use your front of pack to communicate everything. It's challenging. Everyone wants to add one more thing or oh, we need to have this, we need to have this claim. We wanted to stand for our brand and taste and so we held ourselves accountable to making sure that we weren't laying other things on the front of pack and trusting that consumers would pick us up. And then look at the side panel and still believe in the brand.

[Eric Dick]

Super cool. When you mentioned, when you mentioned that your competitors outspend you, I'M curious for brands that are, you know, this is a very much a retail brand, grocery band, less D2C, I'm sure. When you say spend in this category, in this category, what does that mean? Is that spending for promotion in store? Are we talking like Oreo super bowl commercials kind of thing?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, more the Oreo super bowl commercial. Now, I, you know, we don't have visibility to what our competitors are spending in store. And honestly, I would tell you there's a spectrum because a lot of the more natural organic brands tend to spend more in store and lower funnel than the big brands that are upper funnel. And driving awareness via super bowl ads, we're trying to find the balance between the two of those. We have to drive awareness. We have 1% household penetration. Like, there's 99% of households that are not buying us, that aren't even aware of us. So we know we have to drive awareness. But at the same time, we have to make sure that we're supporting our retailers where we are today and that we're getting consumers, you know, engaging them with shopper tactics in store. I don't know the right balance. And if anyone is listening and has the right balance, like, please share it with me because we're trying to figure that out with a small budget. How much do you spend on awareness versus, you know, conversion? And we're starting to, you know, push a little bit more towards awareness now.

[Eric Dick]

And what, what sort of things are you using to. To build awareness?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, mostly digital. So we'll be launching our first ever campaign next month, mostly ott. So that's our biggest spend is going to be OTT and then digital, like social influencer. So we're very excited. This. Yeah. The brand has not had a national campaign, and so this will be our first opportunity to really start to engage with consumers outside of the store.

[Eric Dick]

And for your ott, are you going with sort of a graphic overlay of the brand and package? Are you doing something scripted? What sort of strategy are you going with for that TV Strategy?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, we are going hard into pack, fame and taste. So pack is center to. It's so you'll see it's very simple structure to how, how we've built the shots or the spots really big on brand pack and then taste. We hold back on storytelling because we really wanted to get our brand out there first and start to connect with consumers with like, the look and feel and everyone knows what a cracker is in a cookie. And so we felt like we could just push a little harder into Pac fame and brand and taste appeal. So that's the. Yeah, that's the direction we're going.

[Eric Dick]

Super cool. And then I know it's really early, I know you're just a couple of months in here, but what metrics are you dialed in on to determine whether the rebrand is working?

[Andrea Ferber]

I'll like kind of the lower funnel consumer takeaway at shelf. Like we are watching velocities like a hawk to make sure where we are, that consumers are still picking us up. Outside of that, as we look at the campaign, we're looking at reach frequency conversion where we can get some of those metrics. I mean, our goal is reach and frequency.

[Eric Dick]

Nice.

[Andrea Ferber]

So. And engagement, I will say. Yep.

[Eric Dick]

So you've innovated. The brand is. Do you think there is there pressure to be launching new product or to going, you know, a seed based product or a gluten free product? Is that, do you feel the pressure to launch something like that as a company?

[Andrea Ferber]

Oh, I feel the pressure every day. And not that I don't have, you know, my boss coming down and saying we need to launch these things, but it's all you hear about. I mean, anywhere you look. We just, we just came back from Natural Product Expo west, if you're familiar. It's the biggest natural food show. Yeah. I mean everyone is talking protein. There is protein in everything. Seed oils. I mean it is, it's hard. It's hard to be. To stay focused. And I tell my team probably every day, we have to stay focused. We have to stay focused on our core. We have to stay focused on what our brand stands for and solidifying that because we have so much Runway by just focusing on what we have today as a brand versus get distracted by the new. Whatever the new thing is. Yeah, it's hard. It's not easy because you don't want to miss a trend that becomes the norm.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah. 100%. But it's, but that's such a, probably such a more involved process than the rebrand, for instance. Right. Like you're, you're redoing the package. But to redo a product is like a whole other ball game, I imagine.

[Andrea Ferber]

Whole other ballgame. Yeah. And then it's not, it's not authentic to who we are.

[Eric Dick]

Right.

[Andrea Ferber]

We are back to nature. We are right. Remakes of classics get back to the simple ingredients without all the junk. If we, you know, if we start going after every trend, we're adding things, we're like, we lose, we lose our center of like who we are and what we stand for. And right now it's so important that we get that right and then we can, you know, look at how we evolve the brand over time. But right now, like, I'm a huge fan of simplify to scale and I came in and had a really complex portfolio. We plan four categories. We have 40 SKUs. Like, we need to simplify before we can scale the brand.

[Eric Dick]

And did you. Have you actually closed shop on any of those SKUs or is it really just. Yeah, there's some that you kind of pulled up stakes on?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, we had a pretty long tale of products that, yeah, we had an opportunity to clean up a little bit. And so now we have a portfolio that we feel really good about that deliver on the taste and the butterfree elements that we want to stand for. So I feel really good about what we have. And we'll continue to add products and innovate, but we will stay true to what our core positioning is.

[Eric Dick]

After coming back from Expo west, the natural food show there, what are there any, like, first of all, are we going to have to eat bugs anytime soon? Were bugs a big trend? I know they're protein based. I don't, I don't want them. I don't want to eat bugs.

[Andrea Ferber]

Good.

[Eric Dick]

I didn't see any bugs. Were there any other big trends that you saw there?

[Andrea Ferber]

Number one, I already said this, but protein, I mean, protein has been a trend over the last couple of years at the show, but what they're putting protein in now, I mean, it was sauces. So many beverages.

[Eric Dick]

Protein beverages, huh?

[Andrea Ferber]

Oh, yeah. Well, like prebiotic. Yeah, you know, but healthier. Soda. There were so many beverages and, you know, I actually left feeling like there weren't as many, like new dynamic brands or products compared to years previous. I think it was more of the same types of trends, just more like broader across broader categories.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah, I actually got that in a LinkedIn post I was reading about yesterday that it just didn't feel. It didn't feel as popping or fresh as in previous years because it's just these categories are they. You know, these changes have been coming for a while. When you say protein, what in products like yours, what are people using for proteins like pea proteins?

[Andrea Ferber]

I definitely saw pea protein, like whey proteins, oat. And it's this combination of protein and fiber that I started seeing more and more of. Like I always, when I'm walking around and everyone's like sampling like you, you need to be careful how many protein and fiber products you're eating.

[Eric Dick]

Like at a trade Show. I think I know where you're going with that.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah. I think it was almost like a breath of fresh air for. For all of our team that were down there. And it was the most exciting expo for our brand to. Right. Our brand reveal was really expo. You know, you walk around and everyone's touting all of the things that they added, like all the protein and the fiber and, and. And we were the, you know, among the few brands that were like, we're not adding anything. We're actually taking things out. So you just want a cracker that you can read every ingredient. Like, here you go. A cookie that you can read every ingredient. All right, here you go. It was a dynamic I wasn't expecting, but it was. It really was a breath of fresh air to. To be able to be the ones that weren't adding anything.

[Eric Dick]

I can imagine as a parent, like, every time I walk down that aisle and I think of like, what am I going to put in my daughter's lunch this week? What? And that idea of just being able to understand all the ingredients. We now live in this RFK world where we. Where he may pop up at any time and snatch that bag of Doritos out of our hand. So, you know, I think that is a pretty powerful brand proposition for parents that. My kids are going to eat this. My daughter would not eat an Amy's cracker.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, she wouldn't.

[Eric Dick]

She would be not eating one of these seed conglomerates. But, yeah, you know, a Ritz, but with better ingredients like that. I do that all day.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yes. Oh, I trust me, my kids eat. They go through like a box every two days of our classic rounds. Crackers.

[Eric Dick]

What do you see the role of e commerce in this business, long term.

[Andrea Ferber]

Definitely will play a bigger role. It's been, again, like, simplify to scale is my motto. And we needed to simplify our core business where we have distribution today. And that is. It's a journey we're still on. I mean, we just launched the rebrand. We don't even have performance yet. We need to get that right. But we also know that there's an opportunity in E commerce. So we've been digging into it. We know that there's a big opportunity, especially on Amazon, to like get that right.

[Eric Dick]

Walmart, those kind of places where people are buying these online. Yeah.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yep. So that will be. That will definitely become a bigger focus for us in the next couple years. Years.

[Eric Dick]

So nice. Well, super interesting. I'm very excited to see how this rebrand goes for you and how some of your marketing efforts kind of come to be. If you want to give Andrea feedback on the brand, go to. Yes, back to nature foods dot com. That's right. And then how would people find you if they were interested in kind of following your journey? Are you active on LinkedIn?

[Andrea Ferber]

Yes, yes, I'm active on LinkedIn. So find me there. I really, I'm a big, I'm a big proponent of learning from others. I actually just listened to your podcast with Preston.

[Eric Dick]

Oh great.

[Andrea Ferber]

Who I follow on LinkedIn and take notes of like, how do you get your seat, you know, your CEO not to care so much about roas or you know, return on investment. So I really appreciate and learn, learning from other brands that have been through this, what pitfalls to avoid. So if anyone, if you have others, if anyone has anything to share, I'm always open to learning.

[Eric Dick]

Do you have any sort of final learnings or final words of advice for maybe CPG brands out there or any brand that's contemplating a wholesale rebrand?

[Andrea Ferber]

I think the luxury of what we were able to do as a back to nature team, because we operate as an independent, more insurgent brand, we were able to take risks that a lot of brands couldn't take. So if any, if when I was at General Mills, any other big company, right. There's so many layers. There's so there's, there's so much process in what you have to go through to get a rebrand into market. And therefore you water it down. Like throughout that process, you water it down and it doesn't become as I think, distinctive and bold as what it could have been. I had the luxury for the first time in my career to be able to take the risk, be bold, create a distinctive brand and do all the things that I think every, every major rebrand needs. But it just doesn't always come to life that way. So I would just say read Byron Sharpe's book, Stay true to being distinctive. Don't get afraid. Like, you have to lean in and take the risk and not, not hold yourself back because you're worried about it not being successful. Like, I have to stop myself every time I'm like, how is it going? Like, is it, is it going the direction that we needed to go? Like, you just, you have to lean in and take the risk if you really want the growth. And I would say the long term brand that you're trying to build.

[Eric Dick]

And this is Byron Sharp, how brands grow, Stay ahead of the curve.

[Andrea Ferber]

Yeah, I think I've read it five times in my career.

[Eric Dick]

Interesting. That's a great show. If you had to describe its thesis or some of the main things you've taken from that book. What are its best lessons?

[Andrea Ferber]

He talks a lot about distinctiveness in building memory structures. And I, I mentioned that before, like, how do you get someone to think of your brand? And if you're not being distinctive, if you're not taking the risk to stand out, you're not going to build those memory structures to get a consumer to think of you and connect with you outside of picking up a product off of a shelf. So it really forces you, like, what does it take to build a brand is very different than what it takes for you to just grow your sales.

[Eric Dick]

Yeah. Or to drive a purchase with an ad, for instance. Right on Facebook.

[Andrea Ferber]

Right. And so I really, I just respect his philosophy and approach to this memory building, memory structures being distinctive. It, it forces you to think beyond just driving sales.

[Eric Dick]

Super cool and I think you've mentioned it. But the main memory structures that you're trying to build with Back to Nature are this sort of idea of better for you. You know, ingredients that you can comprehend. The joy that you brought with the package, the nostalgia, anything else like that you're sort of actively thinking about with memory structures with, with Back to Nature.

[Andrea Ferber]

So I love that you just were able to say those three things because it is, I mean our, our number one asset will become our brand logo and our packaging and that's what we, that is what we're striving for and that's why we were so distinctive in the new branding. But joy bringing joy to snack time, more easygoing, laidback approach to these categories that we play in. Like those are all elements of the brand that we are just going to hit over consumers head over and over, over again.

[Eric Dick]

Nice. Well, look for the, look for the brand on shelf. Let Andrea know what you think. And thanks so much for coming on the DDC podcast today. This was a lot of fun.

[Andrea Ferber]

Thank you, Eric. I really enjoyed this.

[Eric Dick]

Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're not a subscriber to our newsletter, you can do that right now at directtoconsumeralloneword co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the DTC podcast. We'll see you next time.