Ep 532: What Smart Brands Do Differently on Amazon (Plus an Epic Clifford Rant on Seller Feedback Changes) | AKNF

Summary

DTC Podcast Episode Summary: Ep 532 - What Smart Brands Do Differently on Amazon (Plus an Epic Clifford Rant on Seller Feedback Changes)

Release Date: August 8, 2025

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The latest episode of the DTC Podcast, hosted by Eric Dick alongside the Pilothouse Amazon brain trust, delves deep into the intricacies of selling on Amazon. Titled "What Smart Brands Do Differently on Amazon (Plus an Epic Clifford Rant on Seller Feedback Changes)," this episode provides invaluable insights for direct-to-consumer (DTC) brands navigating the competitive Amazon marketplace. The discussion spans from common misconceptions about Amazon selling to strategic advertising approaches, recent platform changes, and crucial advice on selecting the right agency partners.

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1. Common Misconceptions About Selling on Amazon

Timestamp: [00:00 - 05:25]

Eric initiates the conversation by addressing the prevalent misunderstandings brands have when venturing onto Amazon. He probes into the biggest misconceptions, opportunities, and common pitfalls brands encounter before collaborating with expert agencies.

• Rob highlights a fundamental error: "Brands think they can just put their product on Amazon and do nothing else. No advertising, no real lean into creative, no real lean into SEO. They just think it's truly free sales..." ([01:04]). He emphasizes that without proactive marketing efforts, brands miss out on Amazon's vast potential.

• Clifford echoes Rob's sentiments, adding that many brands treat Amazon merely as another sales channel rather than recognizing its unique ecosystem. He states, "They are taking it seriously, but they're still trying to come at it with the exact same approach that they're using everywhere else..." ([01:55]).

2. Effective Strategies for Amazon Selling

Timestamp: [05:25 - 16:19]

The discussion shifts to actionable strategies that distinguish successful brands on Amazon from the rest.

• Rob draws parallels between Amazon and traditional retail, noting the necessity of investing in "shelf placement," promotions, and creative listing enhancements ([03:21]). He advises treating Amazon with the same strategic marketing efforts as brick-and-mortar stores.

• Clifford underscores the importance of platform-specific experience. He advises brands to:

  • "Know what works, what doesn't, why you'd be doing certain things..." ([04:20]).
  • Strategically allocate advertising spend to targeted keywords rather than broad terms that yield low returns ([05:43]).
  • Utilize sponsored brand ads to dominate relevant search results ([06:19]).

3. Changes in Amazon's Google Advertising Approach

Timestamp: [08:03 - 09:21]

The hosts discuss Amazon's recent decision to withdraw its spend from Google Shopping campaigns.

• Rob explains, "Amazon used to spend on Google shopping ads to promote products relevant to those searches, and they stopped that." ([08:16]). This shift has potentially opened up more advertising opportunities on Google for brands affected by this change.

4. Clifford's Rant on Seller Feedback Changes

Timestamp: [09:21 - 16:19]

Clifford delivers a passionate critique of Amazon's evolving seller feedback system.

• He contrasts product reviews with seller feedback, highlighting the latter's diminishing relevance in the era of Fulfilled by Amazon (FBA). "Seller feedback is now almost irrelevant because Amazon handles most of the post-purchase experience..." ([09:28]).

• Clifford expresses frustration over Amazon's update allowing customers to leave star-only seller feedback without comments. "Now someone could just leave you a one-star feedback. There's nothing that you can get rid of..." ([14:39]). He argues this change undermines sellers' ability to maintain accurate feedback scores, potentially leading to unjust penalties and incentivizing shady practices.

5. Upcoming Changes to Amazon's Prep Services

Timestamp: [16:19 - 19:22]

The conversation shifts to Amazon's impending cessation of prep and item labeling services effective January 1, 2026.

• Rob informs listeners, "As of January 1, 2026, Amazon will no longer prep, offer prep and item labeling services." ([16:31]). This forces brands to ensure their products are fully prepped before shipment, adding an extra layer of responsibility.

• Clifford elaborates on the types of prep required, such as "bubble wrapping, plastic bagging..." ([18:03]), and cautions about the potential complications if products arrive unprepared post-policy change.

6. Concerns About Agency Team Locations

Timestamp: [19:22 - 22:44]

Eric raises an intriguing observation regarding brands' increasing concerns about the geographical locations of their agency teams.

• Rob notes a trend where brands are more inquisitive about media buyers' locations, citing potential issues like language barriers and time zone differences. "There are concerns around language barriers, communication, time frames..." ([20:15]).

• Clifford adds, "There's not a standardized education process for DTC, so brands have to weed out who really knows what they're doing..." ([20:39]), emphasizing the importance of collaborating with reputable, experienced agencies.

7. Identifying Credible Agencies vs. Pretenders

Timestamp: [23:20 - 29:09]

The hosts provide actionable advice for brands aiming to differentiate between genuine agency contenders and mere pretenders.

• Rob suggests brands should inquire about the agency's spend allocation and keyword segmentation strategies. He warns against agencies overly reliant on automation without strategic oversight: "The more they talk up a black box automation, the more it's likely to leave money on the table." ([27:44]).

• Clifford recommends conducting thorough audits by:

  • Reviewing search term reports to ensure spending aligns with desired keywords ([25:15]).
  • Confirming regular bid adjustments and the presence of bid adjustments for top campaigns ([26:54]).
  • Directly communicating with media buyers to verify their expertise and understanding of PPC management ([28:27]).

8. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Timestamp: [29:09 - 30:03]

As the episode winds down, Eric and Rob reflect on the critical insights shared, emphasizing the importance of strategic investment in Amazon advertising, staying informed about platform changes, and selecting the right agency partners to navigate the complexities of Amazon selling.

Key Takeaways:

• Strategic Advertising: Treat Amazon as a distinct marketplace requiring dedicated marketing efforts beyond mere product listings.
• Platform Expertise: Collaborate with agencies possessing deep, platform-specific experience to avoid common pitfalls.
• Stay Informed: Keep abreast of Amazon's policy changes, such as seller feedback and prep services, to adapt strategies accordingly.
• Agency Selection: Use targeted questions and audits to discern capable agencies from less competent ones, ensuring effective PPC management.

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For more in-depth strategies and tactical insights on scaling your DTC brand, subscribe to the DTC Newsletter and stay tuned to future episodes of the DTC Podcast.

Transcript

[Eric]

Where are brands kind of coming into us with the biggest misconception about Amazon.

[Clifford]

You do need someone who has experience on the platform to know what works, what doesn't, why you'd be doing certain things and why you take certain approaches. This is a very, very, very similar scenario that we see quite often.

[Rob]

Amazon pulled their spend out of Google shopping campaigns. This wasn't something that was initiated by the brand side.

[Clifford]

What are you spending your money on? Where is it being spent? If the majority of the search are at the top of that are search termed like our words I want to be showing on, that's a pretty simple barrier to get past and there's a lot of cases where that's not the case.

[Eric]

It's all killer, no filler. I'm Eric and today I am here with the pilot house Amazon brain trust to discuss a few key changes on the platform. We've got it. We've got a Clifford rant queued up, which I'm excited about on seller feedback.

[Rob]

And I just wanted to start with.

[Eric]

A question I was thinking about today is when, with all the brands that you guys see on Amazon, where are brands kind of coming into us with the biggest misconception about Amazon? Where are their biggest opportunities? Where are their biggest misses before they work with us?

[Rob]

The first one that comes to mind there is when brands think they can just put their product on Amazon and do nothing else. No advertising, no real lean into creative, no real lean into SEO. They just think it's truly free sales and there's a. It's a rare brand that takes it that far, but you do still see it on the platform and there's just so much more potential out there and.

[Eric]

There'S degrees to it as well. You guys can go deep on any one of these topics where brands may not be thinking about at that level, which is why people work with agencies. What would you say, Clifford?

[Clifford]

I think another one that we see is they just treat it like another place to sell. Like it's. It's kind of along the same lines that Rob is saying, but more so that like they are taking it seriously, but they're still trying to come at it with the exact same approach that they're using everywhere else without acknowledging that there are typically, depending on the category, cheaper alternatives that look pretty similar right beside them, which is a problem they don't have anywhere else, like on their DTC website or in stores or wherever other sales channels they might sell. They're alone, they're siloed, they got people there and they might be interested in this doodad that they sell because they're interested in that idea, but on Amazon they might. Someone searches that doodad and there's 20 of them and you just happen to be one of them. Yours might be better, but that's a lot harder to tell that story. You can't just take that exact same stuff you might have on your DTC site, translate it over to Amazon if it's not going to tell you apart from the others. And rather you're just telling a customer what you are.

[Eric]

I think those two are related. They sound pretty similar, just maybe a slight expanding on it. So then what is our response in that case? Like what is the mindset shift that needs to happen? And then let's dive into some of the tactics that need to happen, you know, because of the environment that Amazon is.

[Rob]

Yeah, I mean from the, from the first point in terms of just like treating Amazon like it's free, like free traffic, free sales, depending on where the brand's at. Sometimes I draw the correlation to retail. Like if brands are in retail, you don't just sell to retail. You're also paying for shelf placement you're playing for and paying for end caps. You're funding promotions so stores can put it on sale so you get customers attention in store Amazon. Like at the very least, is that that same sort of correlation where you do need to pay for placements, you do need to like FL fun promos, you need to do the extra effort from a listing build out and a creative build out to actually make your listing stand out. Then there's just looking at the potential of saying like, hey, yes, you're capturing some organic traffic, but here's the top players in the space. Here's the path to get there, here's what it's going to cost from a spend perspective, the investment's going to be worth it. Here's what it could look like and you start painting that picture and then brands start to kind of see the potential.

[Eric]

Agree, Cliff?

[Clifford]

Yeah, 100%. You do need someone who has experience on the platform to know what works, what doesn't, why you'd be doing certain things and why you take certain approaches. Like there is some unique aspects, like running a sale somewhere else. It's like, well, we, we need the sale to stand out at a certain price point. It has to be a high enough sale. Running a sale on Amazon, maybe you, the best case is you just do the minimum to get a certain badge that Amazon gives you. Like you don't really know that Unless you've been on the platform and you know kind of what you're doing. And similar with like niching down into what keywords you're going after and staying within a domain or whether you should expand out of that and ad types you should use and pitfalls to avoid and whatnot. Like all of that nuance comes with experience and just being able, just treating it like another spot to sell your stuff that's not its own unique universe. You'll fall into all those traps and you'll make all those same mistakes that someone more experienced has already made and gotten over.

[Eric]

And as Rob was saying, if you don't know how to be aggressive, there's a risk that you can, you could really underperform because you're being passive with it. Where the experience really comes in to know how to be aggressive, when to be aggressive, and what is likely to have. How do we actually model for that? Is that something that we, Is that just something we do on a case by case basis?

[Clifford]

I think I could give like a decent example of that. If we go back to running shoes, we've definitely had brands come in and let's say it's a running shoe brand. And this is a very, very, very, not common, but similar scenario that we see quite often is brand X says we need to spend more on Amazon and spending more will get us more sales, which is true, but where they spend is in a lot of cases just not great. For in the running shoe example, what we'll see quite often is there's clearly a time when they wanted to ramp up spend, but what they did is just said, okay, well, shoes is a big keyword. Let's spend $50,000 this month on shoes. When in reality with a little more effort, there should have been like 5000 more spent on running shoes and 5000 more spent on red shoes and 5000, 5000 more spent on women's shoes. And like there should have been a proper mix there and all of that ramped up and ramped up strategically so that it's going after certain search placements. More so than landing in low value product page impressions or other places where it shouldn't, or expanding out the search targeting that you have. Maybe that brand already owned the keyword running shoes. Well, they could build a sponsored brand ad that go to the top. They could target competitors that are in that running shoe search results that aren't them and try to own a little bit more of their market share. There's a lot of ways to expand within the niche to own more of that share of the market that don't involve going outside of it where you're blowing money. And typically like we will see that come in at like a 0.2, a 0.3 ROAS or, or worse and the brand might just think well it's marketing spend like it did marketing when this just wasn't the case. Like that money just could have been so much better spent in other places. If you want to do top of funnel, go do top of funnel. Don't, don't spend at a.2 row as on a word that people aren't converting on to just scroll past your listing.

[Eric]

Great advice and it's something we talk about all the time is just making things efficient because Amazon will take your money. Amazon will take all of your money and as, as inefficiently as you want to spend it I guess.

[Clifford]

Eh.

[Rob]

Yep.

[Eric]

Well I think that's a great, great little tactical tip portion of this and that leads into one of the ways I guess they're not spending their money will be on Google Ads because we're no longer having Google Ads served up in the platform.

[Rob]

Amazon pulled their spend out of Google shopping campaigns, interestingly enough. So Amazon used to this wasn't something that was initiated by the brand side. It wasn't like us as an agency saying like yes, for this brand we want to spend on promote our Amazon and Google. It's like no, this was just Amazon itself saying we're going to spend in Google shopping ads to promote products that are relevant to those searches and they stop that. Which is interesting. So right now, funny enough, Dougie was actually hanging out with our Google rep today. So I DM'd Dougie and asked him if he's seen an impact. He did say he's seen a slight a noticeable bump on a few brands recently on Google performance, which is interesting. He said Google's definitely pushing opportunity for more investment considering that Amazon's reducing their spend. But then he said there's still kind of it's still early. So apparently Amazon had been weaning off their Google investment for a little bit, according to our Google rep. So right now it's early. We'll see how that changes over time and I'm sure Dougie will do a deep dive either on the POD or in an article coming up.

[Eric]

I just want to jump right into Clifford's seller feedback Rant. What? I don't know if you're warmed up for that, but what rant away.

[Clifford]

Always warmed up to be anti Amazon as much as we love Amazon here. So there's, there's an area that people are very familiar with on Amazon, which is product reviews. Of course, you buy a product, you get a fun little email that says, please, please leave us a review. Sometimes it's even from the brand begging you, please come back, leave us a product review, please. Here's an ebook of how to cook things with our product or something. And those are rel. I shouldn't say relatively well handled, but they're a little bit better handled and there's a lot of scrutiny around them from FTC and other things around fake reviews and whatnot. A lot of attention goes into those product reviews. There's a little bit lesser known aspect called seller feedback. So technically every seller on Amazon other than Amazon themselves, so if something is specifically sold by Amazon directly, but most of the cases, most of the brands we work with, we're selling as a third party seller on Amazon. So each of those sellers has feedback. This is kind of an older system that came initially, I would say from when it was books on Amazon primarily and it was not fulfilled by Amazon. It was fulfilled by the seller. You'd go buy, search for a book, you'd buy some book off of someone and if it arrived quickly and you got the tracking number and everything, you would go leave the seller feedback. That seller did a great job. Oh, I had a problem, I had to return it and the seller made the return really easy. That's what seller feedback existed for over time. There's now been the fulfilled by Amazon system, which the large majority of brands on the platform seem to take advantage of. And in fulfilled by Amazon. Amazon handles the delivery, they handle the returns and they're supposed to handle the customer service. So what is the use now for seller feedback? Well, there's not really one outside of the rare time when you communicate with the seller, which Amazon kind of discourages us from doing anyways. It's typically kind of reserved for product specific questions and then there's not much communication there. But the system still exists and Amazon ties a bunch of backend metrics to your seller feedback and your feedback score. If your seller feedback rating is too low, you can't participate in certain promotions, you won't get access to certain programs. You might fully be suspended if your seller feedback is too low. It's still tied to a bunch of things. But you don't really get a lot of seller feedback because you're not handling a bunch of the stuff of the experience that someone has from shopping. But once in a while A seller feedback comes through. Currently the way the system works is if that item was fulfilled by Amazon, there's a quick little button that says this was fulfilled by Amazon. Get rid of this and it will automatically be struck through. It won't affect your overall score. So because of that, the large majority of brands, at least from what I've seen, have super high seller feedback ratings because anything that's negative they get rid of. Anything that's positive they leave alone. Of course, why would you get rid of the positive ones? They're helping your seller feedback score and everything is fulfilled by Amazon anyways. And everyone's just talking about deliveries like the point was supposed to be about the seller. But if you go look at seller feedback, it's basically product reviews which don't belong there or delivery reviews which are an Amazon problem. So the entire system is kind of antiquated. But now Amazon is updating it and they're adding the ability for a customer to leave seller feedback without a comment on the feedback. So they can just leave a star rating just like you do with products. Right? Great idea. Well now someone could just leave you a seller feedback. You can leave a product rating. This means they'll get more seller feedback. That's great, except now you have no way to get rid of that seller feedback if it was a delivery problem. So people will now come leave you a one star feedback. There's nothing that you can see, there's nothing you can get rid of. And now you're just seller feedback rating is just tanking over time and there's nothing you can do about it because they've completely gotten rid of the ability to get rid of it because there's no comment for you to say was a FBA related problem. And you don't know if that's what they're talking about because they just left a star rating with no comment. So it's just a very classic case of like Amazon doesn't use their own platform. Like someone who designed this just has never sold a thing on the website somehow, because even the smallest of sellers would understand that this is dumb and, and somehow full blown teams at Amazon, which I'm assuming this got reviewed by a bunch of people before it goes live across every single seller across the world's largest marketplace. So a whole bunch of people, this must have got through who said yeah, this is a great idea, dumb idea, very dumb. And hopefully they don't actually push it live. Cause it's very stupid.

[Eric]

Cause they had it solved or they had it more not Maybe they had it solved to an extent in that and then they unsolved it.

[Clifford]

Yeah, they had it working. It didn't really do anything. Like it wasn't great already. There's really no reason for seller feedback. Like, that's the thing is like the system doesn't really need to exist because the communication with sellers is so minimal. Like, if you go buy something on Amazon, do you talk to the seller? No one talks to the seller unless it's literally something really weird or if it was fulfilled by that seller. So there is a good chunk of Amazon where brands do fulfill products themselves. Good examples of this are like really big items or frozen items, cold things or personalized items, things like that. All of those you can't ship into an Amazon warehouse and have Amazon to fulfill it, so you fulfill it to customer yourself. That whole world, they couldn't strike through those seller feedback ratings because if the delivery was late, it was kind of their fault. Well, it might be the shipper's fault, but it's still their fault in Amazon's eyes. So for them, this probably isn't that bad because if they were already gonna get a bad rating, they were gonna get a bad rating and they couldn't do anything about it anyways. But for the large majority of us who are fulfilled by Amazon, it's a nightmare if they go live because everyone's seller feedback will tank. And if your seller feedback tanks, you start getting account warnings and you can't do a whole bunch of things that you should normally be able to do. And then it incentivizes just buying seller feedback ratings from shady actors to make sure that you don't lose access to promotions because it's a competitive marketplace and if someone else gets access to promotions and you don't, then their ranking is going to go up. So it incentivizes very shady behavior to influence your seller feedback score.

[Eric]

Bad all around. Although it did lead to this great rant. Speaking of fba, Rob, we see here that Amazon is stopping their prepping services. I mean, I assume you don't mean doomsday prepping.

[Rob]

I do not mean doomsday prepping. You can probably still get all your doomsday prep needs on Amazon. Okay, good, good. So, yeah, please buy them on Amazon. Support, support us in any way you can. As of January 1, 2026, Amazon will no longer prep, offer prep and item and item labeling services. Historically, Amazon has always offered you the opportunity for them to prep products for you to label them. They charge a small fee to do that. Sometimes not so small, but it was always an opportunity. So if you were shipping, say direct from a manufacturer, you could just, well, yeah, ship it into Amazon. As long as it was packaged correctly and have Amazon prep those products, you're not gonna be able to do that anymore. Amazon claims that more and more brands are sending products in that are fully labeled prepped, ready to go, that it's just reduced the requirement for them to provide, to need to provide it. Which to be fair, makes sense. I think a lot of the brands have gone that direction, especially when they're selling direct consumers. Well, they may have their own warehouse or they've got a 3 PL that they really like that can do all this for them. But it is just something to note because there's no longer be that option. So you're going to have to send stuff prepared. Which also means I'm not 100% sure of the implication of if you send unprepped product, what happens to it. Now before you could always get it prepped, you would just eat the fee. Now I'm not sure if it's lost, if it has to be returned, what the situation will be. So as of Jan 1, and for.

[Clifford]

A little more detail on what prep would mean, bubble wrapping, plastic bagging. If something has to be bagged, like an apparel item might have to be bagged or something has a potential to leak, it has to be bagged. Like there's a whole bunch of these prep requirements that Amazon might have that you might not even have on like a DTC site because maybe you ship it in a certain shipper that is safer than what Amazon's going to use. So you don't need to bubble wrap or you don't need to poly bag. So you might have paid Amazon to do it because it's only your Amazon stuff maybe that needs that prep. So that's the kind of prep things that now who knows? Something needs to be bubble wrapped and Amazon decides this needs to be bubble wrapped. It's not. They just make you send it all back. Like yeah.

[Rob]

So this is the thing I would say like for brands that are using Amazon prep services, start making a transition now. So you can work at all the kinks before the end of the year because you do want that time before you get stuck. It is officially it's for shipments. Any shipments sent before January 1, 2026, even if it arrives after January 1, 2026 will still be eligible for prep services. But I would not cut it that close. I would start doing your transition now. Get it all figured out and yeah, then you're going to be in a much better place than, than being stuck last minute.

[Eric]

This last note, I'm very, I'm curious about the way that we can take this here. Why are several brands recently very concerned about team location or meeting the team? Is this tariff related?

[Clifford]

I don't, it's.

[Rob]

I don't think it's, I don't think it's terrible.

[Eric]

First state related.

[Rob]

It is just something interesting. I've noticed. The last few, few sales calls I've been on, brands have been much more concerned asking more pointed questions about where their media buyer is going to be located, what time zone they're in, and even asking for the opportunity to meet them prior to signing. Historically, brands have asked to meet buyers. It just seems recently there's more concern over like where are they? And I'm not sure exactly if this stems from bad experience with, with previous agencies or what it might be exactly, but it was just interesting potentially overseas.

[Eric]

Help that, that that didn't pan out maybe potentially.

[Rob]

I've heard some concerns around language barriers, communication, time frames just like being on opposite time zone issues like for a lack of collaboration. So it could be any one of those things which has just been an interesting thing.

[Eric]

How long before they get to meet Clifford?

[Rob]

We occasionally like to keep Clifford in the background. Occas what swoops in later in the sales process.

[Eric]

Okay.

[Rob]

Yeah.

[Clifford]

I feel like there's a weirdness in the industry. It's not just Amazon, it's kind of all of DTC because it's not something you can go take in school. Like there's not a DTC degree. Maybe there is somewhere, I don't know, but at least there wasn't at University of Victoria. But there's not like a DTC degree that you can do. So there's not a standardized education process. So everyone kind of says they're an expert or a lot of people say they're an expert. And it's very like I don't envy brands trying to weed out who knows what they're doing and who's not because then you kind of just have to put it to the test with your dollars. Because everyone says that their way of doing this is the right way and maybe our way of segmenting PPC campaigns is different from the way this other agency does campaigns. And our way is we think is better and they think their way is better. And there's all of this like nuance to the field and a lot of just a million different ways to do Things and no real right way, I guess. And I think what that ends up meaning is yeah, like there's just a lot of people around the world now with remote work that claim to be very good at what they're doing here. And unfortunately brands are learning the hard way that maybe they're not so good. And there might be a cultural part where there is more reliance on experience with the reputable firm in North America. Whereas a lot of where you'd end up with in overseas work is you're not typically getting maybe an agency or it's. You're looking at virtual assistant firms and things like that. There's a little bit of a difference in like the way that the team you're getting is structured compared to what you're getting. And time zone is obviously a big one that we've heard as well is being able to work on the same time zone is just convenient.

[Eric]

Obviously react responsibly in this, especially during.

[Clifford]

Peak times, especially with like small things like, like seller, like let's say seller feedback. Since we talked about it, a brand could say we just got a bad seller feedback rating. We need this struck three or we need someone to address our seller feedback rating or something. If there's some nuance to that conversation that might be three or four days back and forth. If someone's in a different time zone, unfortunately before that ever gets to like what actually needs to be done that back and forth, if you're in the same time zone can obviously happen right now back and forth and it can be resolved that day. So there is like a little bit of, of that I guess. Nice part.

[Eric]

Got one last question. If there are, there's contenders and pretenders out there in this agency space, obviously we know this team is a contender. What's a question that brands out there should ask their agencies or ask any potential agency or consultant who wants to work with them that might be the most likely to reveal whether they are a contender or a pretender.

[Rob]

There's a bunch of different avenues around that. Like one of the things from a spend perspective is like allocation of spend across campaign types and how they look at segmentation of branded non branded terms. Because the allocation of spend across campaign types and specifically match types within campaign types is if a brand or an agency is talking about kind of using broad and auto primarily for exploration and like handing a lot of the control over to Amazon because they've got all this data, then they're not really doing anything. They're just plugging it into campaigns and letting Amazon Run with it. Whereas if they give you an answer that says like, hey, we do a level of keyword segmentation, we lean primarily into exact match campaigns, phrase match campaigns, we want control over our spend, we don't understand where we're spending, why we're spending it, then you're probably on the right path. At least you're looking for a well rounded, educated answer that says like, here's our approach and how we look at it typically. And then they might add something that says for you at your current stage, we would look at it this way, but they kind of give you the two stages there. And then segmentation of branded just tells you like, do they actually understand the different value of customers coming in and are they doing the work to separate those out? To understand, like, we want to know what our net new like our NCAC is versus just like our overall and you have to look at those things differently. So those would be my answer.

[Eric]

I think that's a great answer.

[Clifford]

I think there's also in the same, I'm in the same vein of like, the advertising side is probably the easiest way to find out. One thing I do when we're looking at audits, obviously because of how many different spaces and people there are doing this, there is a million ways to set up your advertising campaigns and some ways that are completely different from ours might be very effective in a completely different reason. So what we, what I do in audits is just fully just pull search term reports and right out of the gate you're just looking at what are you spending your money on. Just straight up, very simply, where is it being spent? And if the majority of the search terms that are at the top of that are search term like our, you know, they're where you want your money to be spent, you're in pretty, you're in okay shape. Like, that's honestly better than a lot of brands, surprisingly, like that basic bare bone. My money is being spent on the words I want to be showing on. Like that's a pretty simple barrier to get past. And there's a lot of cases where that's not the case. So like just straight up pulling your search term report or getting them to pull the search term report, sorting it by spending and seeing where your money's going. Those top few spenders should be search terms that you know and are in the right place. And if they're not, that's usually a problem.

[Eric]

Or if they're being spent inefficiently too. Right? If it's just like if you're just entering the market and you're blowing all your budget on running shoes. But really you're XYZ running shoe or whatever. Right. So you just need to make sure that you're as niche down as you need to be with that spend 100%.

[Clifford]

And then like there's. There's a couple small things too smaller they're still important that are really easy tells of someone's not like it's either neglected or it's not really being paid attention to. Just checking a history inside of an ad group you can see if bids are moving. Your bids should move probably like they should move relatively often, at least a few times a week in a campaign, typically maybe even once a week is okay, but they should move. If your bids aren't moving, that's a problem. And then checking your they're called bid adjustments now they used to be called placements but at least your top spending campaigns, your few top spending campaigns sponsored product side should have bid adjustments in there. There should probably be something in top of search or rest assertion percentages to go after certain placements over others based on performance. If those aren't there, that's weird. They should be there.

[Rob]

I got one more ask them what level of automation they use because the more they talk up a black box automation, the more it's likely able to run somewhat efficiently. But it's definitely going to leave money on the table. And that like full automation just means stacking accounts across like more accounts on like less players. Whereas if there's a blend of automation and manual approach there should be an educated answer around what that blend is and why. Because automation is important. Because in especially in large catalogs. But you if you overly automate, you're leaving money on the table when you're just like not where you need to be. Um, so you do need a significant level of manual control in our opinion.

[Clifford]

So and don't get bullshitted by the person you're talking to either. Like a lot of the times like not to trash this approach because I'm sure it can work. But like you'll have an account manager who you talk to and you don't talk to the person who's running your ppc. Or in the worst case, like Rob just described, there's not even a person running your ppc. It's completely automated and then no one knows what's going on. So that person that you talk to, if they don't know how your PVC is being managed, talk to the person who does. Like at least ask for that person and find a way to talk to them and understand and make sure they understand what they're doing. And ask like the basic questions of what are you spending your money on? And, like, prove that.

[Eric]

I guess that's why clients want to speak to media buyers. I think we just. There you go. Awesome. Well, I think this was super good. I think those first two that the first and the last thing we talked about today, I think are going to help a lot of people out there. Also, the updates always do. We haven't even talked about the Bezos wedding, which we don't have time for. And it's weird. AI Hallmarks. But we'll leave that for a future special. And we'll leave it there. This is my last podcast. I'll be filming in this studio. I'm moving house to a new dedicated to a place that has a new dedicated studio, which I'm really excited about.

[Rob]

Fancy.

[Eric]

So I'll have to. And I bought a cutting board from Richard. So Pilothouse Richard makes fantastic cutting boards. But I'll have you guys over for the housewarming. I'll get you down on the island here. The lower part of the island here, Rob. Yeah, thanks, guys. And I'll see you next week. I guess we'll both be at the Pilotos Innovation Summit.

[Rob]

Yeah, I'll be there.

[Eric]

Awesome. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're not getting the D2C newsletter, you can subscribe for free at directtoconsumer.co. and if you want to learn more about Pilothouse's all killer no filler services, take off to Pilothouse co. I'm Eric Dick and this has been the D2C podcast. We'll see you next time.