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Ep 542: TikTok Symphony: How Pilothouse Uses AI to Scale Creative Briefs & Affiliate Sales
00:17:05
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- [00:00]
A
Symphony is TikTok's new creative studio. Though it does more than just creative. It's everything from, you know, ideation for ads to the actual like AI generation of ads to then the AI optimization of those ads. It's really great at helping understand the current trends and atmosphere on TikTok. I use it primarily as what are.
- [00:25]
B
Some of the hesitations that you're hearing from brands about using AI content?
- [00:29]
A
The biggest hesitation is you're not always going to get viral moments and it's really hard to predict when those are going to happen. Having a good creative strategy behind that obviously helps, but also having a good affiliate strategy.
- [00:48]
B
It's all killer, no filler. I am Eric. I am here on the D2C podcast with Debbie from our TikTok team over at Pilothouse. Debbie gave a presentation to the team yesterday on some new changes to this ever evolving, fast moving platform. Welcome to the all killer Nova Filler podcast. Debbie, how you doing?
- [01:05]
A
I'm good, how are you?
- [01:06]
B
Very well. So what is TikTok Symphony?
- [01:10]
A
So Symphony is TikTok's new creative studio. You could say though, it does more than just creative. It's everything from, you know, ideation for ads to the actual like AI generation of ads to then the AI optimization of those ads.
- [01:27]
B
Super interesting. So is this. When did this come out? Just this past week or even the past couple weeks.
- [01:32]
A
It's something that they have had in the works for a while, but it's really just in the past month that they really started pushing this and opening it up to two more brands.
- [01:41]
B
Remind me of our podcast we did probably four or five weeks ago now that was just about TikTok's change to really emphasize driving to TikTok shop versus off platform. That's still the case.
- [01:52]
A
It's still the case. They do want to still like encourage DTC content, but with their emergence of commerce and really wanting to compete with Amazon in that space, they are really driving their attention there.
- [02:05]
B
Walk me through an example of like how you're using Symphony. It sounds like maybe the future of creative is this sort of AI enabled, you know, ongoing process where you're optimizing and building things all in this, in this one kind of tool. Walk me through what it's like.
- [02:18]
A
Yeah, so Symphony so far for me it's really great at helping understand the current trends and atmosphere on TikTok. I use it primarily as a tool to write our creative briefs and get content ideas for creators. Now you can take that further and really use the Symphony's like AI Generation tool, which in all honesty is like, pretty uncanny. But there are, I think, a lot of hesitations with brands to go head first into the AI generated content.
- [02:48]
B
When you say uncanny, do you mean like uncanny Valley? Like it's a little creepy or what do you mean? Or it's really, really good? Like the Uncanny X Men?
- [02:55]
A
A little bit of both. Honestly. It's uncanny in the sense that, like, sometimes you do. I do have like a hard time being like, is this AI? But it's, it is like creepy in the sense that, like, sometimes it's really difficult to parse it out.
- [03:10]
B
So that's literally the perfect word for it. Have you ever heard of anything being canny? No, that's one of those words. We got to bring that into popular parlance. Okay, so it's really good for, for, for taking the temperature of what's working on TikTok, which is obviously important. Obviously the new trends that you can kind of jump on. What's. Can you give me an example of like, is. This is basically. So while you're writing the brief, you're. You're using this to see what are you seeing? What other videos are popping? Are you seeing like stats on other videos? Essentially, yeah.
- [03:39]
A
So we can see the types of videos that are trending on the platform, what's working well, what kind of hooks, general trends for categories and even creators that are doing well following those trends. And then you can sort of like use the tool itself to help you it, or get iterations on hooks, B roll content, even CTAs, and kind of streamline the process of brief writing a lot better.
- [04:05]
B
How do you. You mentioned brands are a little bit hesitant to jump into this uncanny ad creation. What, what are some of the hesitations that you're hearing from brands about using AI content?
- [04:15]
A
I think the biggest hesitation is sort of like this brand control. That AI content is good, but right now it's still, for the most part looks like AI, and we're not really sure yet how people will respond to it. TikTok itself has gone through periods of like, seeing a lot of AI generated content and that becoming really popular, but then periods of the users themselves being like, we don't want to see this. This is like too much swap. And so then them having to like retroactively, like ban stuff or remove content is essentially not performing in the way that they would want it to.
- [04:54]
B
I went through this with the bunnies on the trampoline, where it was the first time, you know, the bunnies are bouncing on the trampoline and I, I didn't, I was watching with my daughter actually, and she, within like three seconds, like, dad, that's AI. It was the first time that, that her, her eye was, was better than mine for that. So there's definitely, you can feel that backlash. It's like, and it's like how there is that whole medium of content on these platforms now that's like, that's obviously AI, but you're watching it for fun. But it's like the only that I feel like that is only going to be around for a little while.
- [05:23]
A
In a way, I agree with you. I think there's, there's a fear of like trickery with AI where when you're watching a video on TikTok, you're watching it because it's a real person giving like a real opinion and having a real experience. But when you mix AI into that, that authenticity factor, that like real factor kind of like goes away. And I think that's what makes people like hesitant to engage with it because you essentially don't want to feel like you're pushing real content that's made by an AI that ultimately doesn't really have that user experience behind it.
- [05:59]
B
So I think in the last podcast you walked us through a bit of a case study from maybe an eye care brand and then you sort of presented a little bit further on how that's been going in this team meeting. The crux of it was that you were having success with these campaigns by having viral moments. Essentially you were able to find some viral moments and sort of, you know, raise, raise the sales, but you've kind of bridged that over into a more consistent program. Can you talk about how that kind of worked out?
- [06:25]
A
Yeah. So a lot of brands that come to us for TikTok that are really already doing well on the platform have this thing where a lot of their long term performance is based on viral moments, but then the actual sales that they make month to month differ super drastically because of this viral moment. That viral video can work for like eight months, but it's not going to work the same as it did in month one. And so like finding that consistency is sort of like where our affiliate strategy helps bridge the gap. You're not always going to get viral moments and it's really hard to predict when those are going to happen. Having a good creative strategy behind that obviously helps, but also having a good affiliate strategy, and by that I mean TikTok has a wide range of affiliates that make, you know, anywhere from like $5 in GMV per month to like a million dollars in GMV for month. And so we target what the platform calls L3 plus creators. So those are creators that make, you know, anywhere from like 25 to 50k in GMV or more per month. And these are the creators that we work with essentially on like a quasi retainer basis where we have a little bit more of like a creative dialogue in terms of the new content and angles that are being pushed, as well as, you know, leaning into some trends and whatnot. But these all three creators are like sales associates. They know what they're doing. They know how to make content that generates sales. And it's important to find them and find the ones that are going to generate sales for your brand. It's like essentially hiring sales associate for like your virtual online store.
- [07:56]
B
Hmm, that's a good way to think about it. And so is Symphony something that we use to uncover these, these relevant affiliates? What are we doing to find the most relevant affiliates for offers?
- [08:05]
A
One of the best ways to find affiliates is actually through your TikTok shop rep. They have a list and a much more extensive list that I think that is available publicly or even on symphony of these L3 creators. But another way to do this is honestly just through your own affiliate center and seeing which creators are gaining traction. You have insights into how much GMV those creators make per month. So you can literally just take a look at your own affiliate center, see who's applying, see which creators make GNV in that L3 range, and reach out to them for collaborations.
- [08:44]
B
I imagine I haven't seen the interface, but I imagine the downstream metrics on affiliate performance is probably a little tough to measure. How does, how does TikTok report? And what are the KPIs you're looking for from effective affiliate campaigns, aside from sales?
- [08:59]
A
So this is a really hard question because TikTok reporting is not great. And even GMV max when we're running ad, literally a black box in the sense that you get nothing from it. You can't tell who your audience is, any age, gender, demographics. So in terms of KPIs, we really just have to rely on the sales and the post likelihood. So essentially by post likelihood, TikTok gives like a percentage of how likely that creator is to make a post based on their past history. So we typically only engage with creators that have a certain amount of GMV per month and like an 80% post rate.
- [09:42]
B
Nice. And then what are you. Then you're really just looking for increases in sales either on the Shop or directly on the site to see if it worked.
- [09:49]
A
We can see which videos in particular generate sales. So, so typically what we do is when we hire these affiliates, we know that content is working as they sort of like make their way into the TikTok affiliate leaderboard. So TikTok, in your affiliate center, you have a leaderboard of like the top videos and the top creators that are working. When you work with an affiliate, let's say on a retainer, and you start collaborating them with content, you know that content is working if they start entering that leaderboard and competing with your top ads.
- [10:21]
B
Interesting. And sorry, is that, is that a leaderboard for what your account or is that a leaderboard across the entire ecosystem?
- [10:27]
A
It's for your specific account, for your specific.
- [10:29]
B
Okay, very cool. When you're working with affiliates, how often, I guess you just leave it to them. I was going to say how often are you trying to balance new trends with, you know, trying new trends with things that are sort of tried and true? I guess you just kind of leave it to the affiliate in that case.
- [10:43]
A
That's a good question. We don't leave it to the affiliate. So when it comes to mass affiliate outreach, we tend to reach out to anywhere between 5 to 10k creators per month per brand. In this math outreach, the majority of the content that you're going to get is going to be trend based. Those creators want to do content that's like tried, true and reliable to generate gmb. It's the affiliates that we work with on like a retainer basis that allows us to introduce new concepts, maybe try out new trends and see if those get traction.
- [11:16]
B
What are you seeing in terms. I guess TikTok's always evolving. My understanding previously was that TikTok really works best for lower ticket items. More, more faster type purchases. Are you still seeing that or has it expanded into higher value purchases?
- [11:32]
A
We're still seeing a bit of that, but we're seeing it expand much more into higher value purchases, especially like bundle deals and bundle offers in particular for like beauty and skincare brands that are able to really sell like, you know, like a $50 lipstick on the platform that typically we wouldn't see.
- [11:52]
B
And are there bundling opportunities in TikTok shop as well?
- [11:55]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [11:56]
B
So in TikTok shop you can put together custom bundles just like you would on, on your Shopify website?
- [12:00]
A
Yeah, just like you would on Shopify, just like you would on Amazon.
- [12:04]
B
Any accounts that have caught. I'll, I'll tell you the. An account that has caught my Eye lately. Cause we had previously talked about Pine Sol. We had previously talked about Pine Sol doing just totally unhinged ads. I've got a beef right now with Brita because I feel like. Brita. Brita. Water filters have just jumped on the. And tried to make it so they're like, hey, do the pine saw thing. And it just comes across like real. Try hard. To me, I. I don't know. Have you. I don't know if you've seen it. You gotta be careful.
- [12:32]
A
Brita has had beef on this platform on and off for years. And it's. It's been, like, controversial in some ways that's been beneficial to them. It's interesting to see them trying to replicate and sometimes there's no such thing as bad publicity. I know there are a lot of people giving them some backlash for trying to recreate another brand's style, but hey, all the power to them, eventually they'll find something that works.
- [13:01]
B
You're tentative right now with Generative AI in your ads. Have we launched any Generative AI ads?
- [13:05]
A
Not yet, but I do have a client that's very interested in it and we are going to be meeting with a rep to really dive headfirst into that part of Symphony.
- [13:17]
B
That's really cool. Is there anything. Was it. Did you. You attended like a. Like a mastermind or something this week or like a group on like, TikTok shops that you sort of keep relevant with TikTok trends?
- [13:27]
A
Yeah, so I attend. I attend this. I think it's every other week. I didn't actually have the chance to attend the one this week, but this is a Jordan west mastermind group.
- [13:37]
B
Oh, I know Jordan. Yeah.
- [13:38]
A
Yeah. So he. He does these bi weekly. It's super valuable resource to get an idea of what's working best on the platform.
- [13:45]
B
Very cool. Can you give me an example of an insight or something you've sort of driven from. From being part of that group?
- [13:50]
A
This is going to sound super silly, but for the longest time when we had a client, we were really struggling with figuring out why CPAs were so high and CPCs were so high and like, I'm talking about like $50 CPCs, $350 CPAs. And I went to this group and Jordan made sort of like what seemed like a random suggestion, but he was like, why don't you just set up a new pixel, a new ads manager and try again? And that's what we did. And immediately, like day one, even with like a pixel and that's not warmed up, we saw such A drastic difference where our CPAs went from like I said like 300, 350 to like $50.
- [14:35]
B
Great work. Jordan. I'm curious, how are brands seeing in your client work? How are brands seeing TikTok in their who conversion funnel? I guess there's, I think there's this idea that TikTok has the eyeballs of everyone right now. There's or it really, it's this huge entertainment platform. It's the fastest growing platform. It's the most time spent on platform for a whole generation of people including me. And so there's this idea that it's like really, really adept at sort of bringing new people into your products. Funnel. Are you viewing it more as a top of funnel exercise or as a complete full funnel?
- [15:11]
A
Because we are primarily focusing on shops, we are viewing this as a full funnel type of thing. However, that said, TikTok is a great top of funnel platform. It's great to find new users. It has this sort of halo effect with other platforms. If you start doing well on TikTok, even organically not running ads, you do see like a positive influence on other channels in particular Amazon. One of the biggest sort of things that TikTok is trying to work against is in terms of you know, they're launching their commerce section but there's so many people who only exclusively buy on Amazon. So TikTok tends to be this funnel where like hey, they'll discover like a cool video through TikTok shop but end up purchasing on Amazon.
- [15:57]
B
Makes sense. Any sort of closing words or advice on brands for brands out there to just to be diving into Symphony for, for maybe how to best use it.
- [16:05]
A
Yeah, I would say that it's probably better to get on Symphony sooner rather than later. Even if you are a little bit hesitant to try the AI content generation yet using it as a creative tool and just as a tool of like better understanding the platform and optimizing your ads for both DTC and shops is a super great tool to get used to using now. It is going to be the future of the platform. So better, better learn how to use it.
- [16:40]
B
Thanks for listening to today's episode. If you're not getting the D2C newsletter, you can subscribe for free@directtoconsumer.com and if you want to learn more about Pilothouse's All Killer no filler services, take off to Pilothouse co I'm Eric Dick and this has been the D to C podcast. We'll see you next time.