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Ep 616: How Neuro Built a Nine-Figure Smart Gum Brand Before Expanding to Retail.
00:42:43
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- [00:01]
A
There's no one building a true energy brand like we are. You've got to get out of the aisle in that launch moment. There's no substitute for getting out of the aisle and getting onto an end cap as you're growing. You don't want to operate two separate companies. You don't want to operate, oh, here's my E comm company and here's my retail. The magic is, how does it all come together? We're spending a lot of time understanding how all the channels work together, which is the key in TikTok plays a major role in that.
- [00:33]
B
How many sort of affiliates or influencers are you working with on TikTok right now?
- [00:37]
A
I mean, it's tens of thousands. That halo that shows up in other channels was fantastic and really got a lot of consumers finding pathways to purchase.
- [00:54]
B
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- [02:36]
A
Great, thanks for having me. Eric. This is exciting.
- [02:38]
B
For those who haven't tried Neuro yet, what's the simplest way you can explain the product?
- [02:42]
A
Oh man. Neuro is they're the smartest gum and mints in the world. It's natural caffeine, L theanine, a nice easy balance you can find us. You know, as Eric mentioned, we're exploding everywhere. Very accessible. We're moving into Walmart, cvs, Costco, but longtime digitally native brand.
- [03:03]
B
Most brands compete inside an existing category or existing behavior. You guys are kind of creating a new category, new behavior. Was that the thinking right from the beginning?
- [03:13]
A
Yeah, I mean really from our founder's story with Ken and Ryan over a decade ago, they were looking at sugary energy drinks and you know, ways that they could find a more balanced energy in a more convenient way and just didn't exist. You know, most of the gum out there is just, you know, regular old dumb gum. And yeah, you're going to have energy drinks and coffee but you got to be in the right time and place to have those. And depending what you're, what you're looking for, there was nothing there. So creating a category was the only move for those guys.
- [03:45]
B
When you went to market with it originally, before you kind of exploded there, was there an education, an education piece necessary or were you kind of piggybacking on the success of other smart products or even just the idea that you can take supplements to get smarter?
- [03:59]
A
Yeah, I mean it's what, what you peg against frame of reference is everything. Right. So you could say, well you remember smart TVs and smart cars and you know, this is smart gum. It's still, you still see like deer in headlights, you know, what is that? What does that mean? Right? So having an energy and focus gum and energy and focus mints, you know, just telling people that that format can fit in your pocket. You can have a balanced experience and get that energy boost whenever you need it. It just takes a lot of education. Certainly you can't just, you know, see, you know, people take a minute like if it doesn't exist, you know, what am I pegging again? So neuro started over 10 years ago like I mentioned and you know, it's a been a bit of a journey but now, I mean this is a product that fits in a lot of consumers everyday life and really makes a difference. So we're very proud of it and but has been a journey Create a category, something.
- [04:54]
B
Well, talk to me about, about it then. Talk to me. Because you guys started D2C, right?
- [04:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, we started DC.
- [05:00]
B
How soon did you know you had a real hit on your hands here? Was it, was it early on that you, that you, the ads were just working and you're like, okay, we've got this.
- [05:07]
A
Yeah. So I think, you know, back in the day there. So I've known Ken and Ryan for, for a while, but I wasn't there in the early years. And it's, you know, you get some momentum. Everyone you give it to is like, this is incredible. Once they get it right. So how do you tell people about it? How do you explain it in the simplest way possible? But I do think that Neuro, some of the secrets is just cultural relevancy and connection delivering efficacy against a true consumer need and then just like a natural curiosity and hustle to unlock channels as those opportunities come about. But I think when you look at the story arc of Neuro, that 2020 Shark Tank episode was kind of the catalyst in that cultural relevancy and people giving Neuro a minute to understand it, that just was that first catalyst to really take off.
- [05:59]
B
And then was meta the early fuel for the fire?
- [06:02]
A
Yeah, you know, using, you know, D2C and Amazon, optimizing using some early tools and platforms, certainly in the meta space. But really it was TikTok shop that those early days of, you know, Neuro was ranked as the number one brand in health and wellness for a while, outperforming competitors, attracting new households and really using the platform with, when it was a bit more of the wild west. And how do you get all the creators and, you know, build that and that halo that shows up in other channels was fantastic and really got a lot of consumers understanding what Neuro was and finding pathways to purchase.
- [06:43]
B
Love to hear good TikTok success stories. Was this TikTok shop or was this before TikTok shop?
- [06:48]
A
This is selling on TikTok shop. So getting the creators, you know, motivated to, to sell and Neuro has a pretty large contingent of creators that are built over the years that love Neuro and are great partners. So that's all, you know, on TikTok. But you know, that obviously has changed a lot over the years and or in the recent year.
- [07:09]
B
What's something that worked a year ago or two years ago on TikTok that doesn't anymore?
- [07:14]
A
Yeah, I think the, the introduction, some of the algorithm changes and the introduction of like, you know, kind of pay to play last summer really changed the game where, you know, virality was something that you could, you could work through and, and do with a bunch of creators, but now the paid media aspect and GMV max just kind of changes the game. So. And it changes the game for the creators and how they use that platform. And we're always adjusting. You know, it's, I wouldn't say it's steady state by any, by any stretch of imagination right now.
- [07:48]
B
So how many, how many sort of affiliates or influencers are you working with on TikTok right now?
- [07:52]
A
I mean, it's tens of thousands, you know, that, that are in our network that we're working with. And you know, it's a, it's a heavy lift, but it's part of the secret sauce.
- [08:00]
B
And then what's the formula for what works? Obviously, I think having a product, that's what I've heard on TikTok shop is having it that lower ticket product that, you know, just like you're in the checkout aisle of a grocery store, it's easier to make that discretionary purchase right then if you get excited about it. What's the playbook that's kind of worked really well with influencers across TikTok.
- [08:20]
A
Yeah, we, we have a, a sizable team that's doing the training and aligning incentives just to make that, you make it a, a motivating pitch and the right product to get out there and get some momentum. And it's really, you know, can Those creators on TikTok shop, you know, can they, can they make money off the product and, and what, what matters most to them? They can love the product, but TikTok's really interesting like that. So you have to align the incentives and align the messaging and quite honestly have some momentum behind it to make it interesting for them. So they're, they're part of something not just, you know, pushing. So that, that takes a lot of work and a lot of vision and a lot of hustle.
- [09:01]
B
And then so with these influencers, do you have a sort of a graduating scale of Pay to play vs Rev share vs Give me a bit of a. Paint a, paint a picture of what that looks like of how you incentivize and align incentives there?
- [09:14]
A
Yeah, I mean it's changed over time. You know, right now if you look at historically how you'd partner with creators and now the, the pay to play aspect is you have to be spending into paid media to get more views and you know, creators want to understand that. They also want to understand kind of the longevity the Arc the news that you're bringing towards things because they're looking at it. They may be passionate and love the brand, but they align themselves with brands that they can make the most money with. And that is basically how, how that, that works. So it's become more complicated on the platform. So you have to understand what you're doing as a brand and, and have that growth agenda, but also what their incentives are.
- [09:57]
B
If you were to have to launch Neuro from zero today, what would be your steps to kind of start building out this TikTok approach to start with?
- [10:06]
A
Yeah, so I'm not the TikTok expert on our team or our broader team. So, you know, first I would, I'd pull together people that knew what was happening on the platform now because if you look back, there's been a lot of recent changes and then what are you really building? How are you building like the incentives? How are you building like the right messaging, the hooks and getting that momentum and then do you have. How much do you actually have to spend in paid media versus incentivizing creators and like kind of build that out. But really if you, if you have a unique, a great product and quite honestly, if you have the room and you don't have the channel conflicts to run discounting, because that's an interesting aspect of TikTok. If you spend enough time on there, it sounds like everyone's going out of business, you know, in how the discounts align. So you also don't want to erode your brand. So these are all things that are recent, you know, mix it like pieces of this mix. So I think that's really the key is to make sure that you understand exactly how to leverage the platform right now. But you need to have that right product in the positioning and the right messaging improve that you can build that momentum for creators to engage.
- [11:23]
B
Are most of the creators creating ads that are specific to Neuro gum in that. Or Neuro Neuro products in that they're. They're making the video about Neuro or is it. Or is Neuro more like a presence in their regular ad, in their regular content in a way where it's like, oh, I'll take my Neurogum and I'll talk about what I'm going to talk about and they, they sound smarter or something like that? Or is it. I love this Neuro gum. Is it specific to the product? Always?
- [11:47]
A
Yeah. I mean, in the world. Yeah. So we do like the training, the shared learning. It's specific to Neuro, but it doesn't mean that people aren't just incorporating it in, but like really, you know, people are selling against it. So they're, they're highlighting it in specific ways. There's a lot of creative free freedom with the creators, which is very different than how you might look at TikTok versus TikTok shop. Right. Or influencers in general, where they're incorporating it and scripting it in certain ways. So you're building the angles and you're building those messages. But there's a very different mix of creators, especially when you work at that scale. You're not managing every message out there, but really you're setting up the creators with the right tools to sell the product and talk about the product in the right way in the news and the momentum in the spec trend behind it. So it's a bit different that way.
- [12:45]
B
What would you say about the kind of scale and growth you've been able to achieve on TikTok?
- [12:50]
A
The scale and growth has been phenomenal, but really we continue to grow on, on all channels. But it, there was a moment in time where you could unlock TikTok and just with your curiosity and, and hustle. Right. And how the platform, in working with the creators, it was evolving. So there's that moment in time where, where you can really hit that and neuro hit that per with a product that people really needed to know about. And the magic was, man, where do you get this? I didn't know it existed. And you had that many people talking about a product that fits in that many people's lives. Right. And it's efficacious and it's interesting. It goes in your pocket high shareability and I think shareability of the product is another huge key here. And you know, hitting that timing. Right. And like I said, as things change on, on TikTok, we continue to grow on the platform. But being able to work with the creators and balance out across channels was a little bit of the magic.
- [13:51]
B
Now looking at you, because we'll get into retail, but on the digital side of things, is TikTok still. Is is it the lion's share of where your growth or scale is coming from at this point or is it evened out to be with Google and, and meta?
- [14:04]
A
Yeah, I mean we're, we're still great partners with TikTok and using TikTok and investing heavily, it's just a matter of. That's not where we're seeing the greatest growth. It's still great for, for trial and messaging and growing to a certain extent. But we're in our channel diversification. TikTok still has a really nice halo effect. So you're seeing your growth on other channels from, you know, from TikTok. So they're, they're doing everything they can to keep the money on the platform, but it's still, you know, TikTok in general is very powerful and has a really strong halo. You know, there's nothing that's going to be able to outpace neuro's retail growth at this, at this time. But you know, it's a all, all ships rise situation. So ecom continues to be very strong for the brand with a lot of momentum. But we're, we're spending a lot of time understanding how all the channels work together, which is the key. And TikTok plays a major role in
- [15:02]
B
that and it must have a halo effect for the retail buyers. Right? Like that's one part of it that I think maybe people underestimate is all those retail buyers are on social media and so reaching those people. So I assume when you went, when you decided to crack retail, which is, you think about it like I've never bought a stick of gum on the Internet. I've only ever bought it, you know, at checkout, at a corner store kind of thing where, where I think to buy it. So the fact that you guys were able scale as big as you were sort of probably breaking people's habits, a little bit of actually buying gum online because wow, this is novel, this is new, I got to buy that. But it must have just made the retail launch pretty inevitable. How did it feel when you brought the product to retail? Were they already like super hyped about it?
- [15:47]
A
Basically, yeah. I mean it's a great point. I mean building that kind of digital foundation and that, that there's a lot of pent up demand in retail. The buyers know it. Right. Because we got enough momentum digitally that you. The conversations with buy were pretty direct. Right. It's like how many people out there in the world will buy $25 plus of gum that they haven't tried yet? You know, you have to have a friend or an advocate, some pretty strong word of mouth, which neuro has. Right. But there's still a lot of people that are like man, I'd love to try neuro for three to four bucks. Well, we're going to make that happen. Right? And that's where the retailers come in and they completely get that. And you know, we're building a category.
- [16:29]
B
It's.
- [16:30]
A
We're nearly 100% incremental to what the retailers are doing right now. And we can quite honestly, we can make promises that other brands can't. Right? So when we launch into Walmart and we say, you know, here's the, in day one, here's the millions upon millions of views that were in Walmart, we Neuro can make that type of thing happen. So we're getting a lot of discussion and like findability and how do you create a category? And we can answer that question, right? We can use that, that groundswell and digitally and start bringing that into physical spaces. So it's not like we're putting building a category completely on a retailer. And our best retail partners, they're not putting it completely on us. We're going in and saying, hey, we got to create something new and that's going to take some different movement and physical space and how we partner and work together. But it's worth it if those dollars are incremental, right? You're not stealing share and we can prove that. Who are we stealing share from? We're actually building all coffee drinkers, energy drink users, they love Neuro, right? Like they're, they're chewing Neuro in between their drinks, right? So that increment, incrementality story is really key and that's why retail is, is it's time for Neuro to really start growing in that channel.
- [17:48]
B
How have you approached it? Because I've, I've heard different approaches of people kind of going, picking a retailer, going as deep as they can with that retailer maybe before they evolve into other spaces. And I know that if you, if you, if you go wide and spread yourself very thin, that can be a recipe for disaster as well because you're not going. So how have you guys actually approached retail scale?
- [18:08]
A
It's really about that partnership. So if we're, we're working so one, there's a lot of retailers out there that have big investments in retail media, right. So it makes sense to go with retailers first that have a strong digital foundation so that your, your toolkits can work together and you, you speak the same language, you get a good understanding of that. So when you look at, you know, the Walmarts of the world, it makes sense for us to partner together and we can, we can share learning there. When you look at, you know, every channel, whether it's C store, it's a mass, it's grocery, it's drug, it's club, there's always retailers that kind of come to the top, rise to the top of like their digital investments. And you know what kind of partnership they're willing to give. Those make the best partners. We actually can say how many digital and physical touch points can we get with a shopper during the three, the first three months of a launch and how can we do that together? And that, that's what makes it right. If you go too broad. You're absolutely right is if you go too broad or you work with retailers that you know will put you on shelf or put you in the wrong place or not help you celebrate that launch, it's probably not going to go well and it's probably not going to help your data story as you're looking to expand in the future.
- [19:25]
B
Retail is probably more of a pay to play option than people think about. And you mentioned Walmart. How important has it been running digital ads on those marketplace platforms?
- [19:35]
A
It's still early days for us. Walmart's an exciting one because we just launched there more recently. But I think it's, it's important to run a full, comprehensive launch strategy. How are we getting different touch points like who's shopping on Walmart.com, who's shopping in aisle, who's shopping check lane? We actually have several beta programs running with newer partners and people are creating stuff right now to solve these omnichannel problems. Right. And because of where we're coming from, we have like the tried and true, we have all these different pieces. We're running ads on every digital platform you can and we're sticking with the winners because we know how to run those types of Playbooks. And I think that's the exciting part is we're going to do some things in these launches, but we're communicating to the retailers every step of the way so they know what we're doing and it makes sense to them and we know what they're doing and it makes sense to us. And that's kind of the key.
- [20:38]
B
Are there any investments you've made in retail that have had an outsized impact? Whether it's an end cap or, or, or ads or anything. Is there any, any part of the playbook that has, has provided you with surprising results?
- [20:50]
A
Yeah, you got to get out of the aisle in that launch moment. There's no substitute for getting out of the aisle and getting onto an end cap. And every shopper is walking by it and giving you that moment. Right. Giving you that glance when you're in aisle, especially if you're creating a category, you have to get that trial and you have to have people go in to retailers Constantly and say where's that energy gum in the blue pack? Some recall right where they're like where's Neuro? We heard you have Neuro. But that energy gum in the blue pack has to scream off shelf on an end cap. If it's in an aisle, you just get lower foot traffic. There's just no way to combat that. So a lot of the, the partners that we're working with, we're also launching, you know, at check lane we're launching where gum would be and then we're also launching, you know, where supplements and energy would be. So really that, that kind of like two headed approach is, is part of
- [21:49]
B
the magic you mentioned in our pre interview that retail completely shapes the P and L of the business. Can you expand on that a little bit? What, what does that mean?
- [21:58]
A
Oh yeah. So when you change your channel, diversification is going to change the shape of your P and L, right. If we sold something on D2C, people pay you before you even ship it out, right? In retail you're building product, you're shipping that out. You have different payment terms, you have trade dynamics, you have every. It's just really the shape of the P and L completely changes. And because you're paying in trade and slotting and all these metrics between gross to net your product margins change, your logistics change. So like you have to be ready to make these investments. And Eric, to your point is when you go into retail, picking the right partners, you have to believe in those investments. Like we're going to launch with the right partners and get the right top and bottom line outcomes, that we're fueling our business and we're not you know, digging some sort of crazy hole here. So it's, it's tough because, and you also, as you're growing, you don't want to operate two separate companies. You can, you don't want to operate, oh, here's my E comm company and here's my retail company company. The magic is how does it all come together? That's you know, every investment that's building the team that's building, you know, the, every strategy and how it, it's intertwined.
- [23:11]
B
What breaks first when a digitally native company becomes a retail company or what's been the hardest part of that, of this evolution.
- [23:18]
A
First, it's time. So retail moves in its own time. And because it moves in its own time, you sell at a different, you sell in at a different time. You wait for answers on someone else's time, you get paid on someone else's time. Like everything is on someone else's time. When you're running a D2C business, you're managing Amazon. It's like so many things are on your time. That's a cultural change, I think, in that you could see how there's strain, right? So when is that PO coming? And we have to build inventory, so there's operational strain financially. When do we get paid for these things? What is this? Like, what, what are these deductions coming through? Why is the retail marketing? Why, why do we have to spend this money? When did we promise this? Like, how does this work? It's like a whole new muscle. So that that change in time, it reshapes the P and L, your operations. So then when you think about from a marketing standpoint, you have to learn new channels, new digital shelves. You have to understand how it works together. Most of those retail media networks, they're not as sophisticated as what performance marketers are used to. And they're like, how come we don't have this data? When do we learn about this? How come I can't get here? Why does it take. Why do I have to write 800 tickets to get my PDP is updated? And now I'm talking to someone overseas trying to figure this out. You're just moving into a completely different space. And I think like, the stress around time is probably the best way to put it is like, what the things you control and the new muscles and the patience and the teamwork, it's all because you're on someone else's time.
- [25:06]
B
Did you hire strategically in going into retail, like hiring someone who'd done this process before, did you guys kind of figure it out as a team?
- [25:13]
A
Yeah. So I, I've spent my career in more omni channels, so working across, you know, retail and E commerce. So it came to the point where, all right, if we're going to push in a big way, we need to build out the right team. So we're still a very thin team, but we hired expertise, right? Like, we hired people that have done this, people that understand, you know, storytelling, timing, understand, like the economics of this. And, you know, just a handful of seasoned vets that really get it and then understand there's things we're going to do and there's things we're not going to do. So that expertise is really helpful because it's that sell in, but it's everything that comes after that. Right. You can sell it in, but just managing that ongoing. And retailers, as soon as you get in the next question they have is if you're doing well, they're like, what's next? And if you're not doing well, they're asking why? And they have just as much data as you have, if not more. So that's very different than, you know, the D2C space. Right. So they know if you're doing well before you do. So you got to get used to that. It's a different game.
- [26:22]
B
I wanted to talk a little bit about a recent campaign. Your gum is dumb campaign.
- [26:26]
A
Yeah.
- [26:26]
B
And your awesome sloths you have there. This seems like a move up funnel, right. It seems like, you know, you're not, you're. You're explaining the product but in a really sort of branded awareness generating way. Talk a little bit about the decision to run the. The sloth campaign.
- [26:41]
A
As you know, we diversified our channels and went coast to coast. We're kind of everywhere. Right. So if you're starting to look at. All right, we need to do a few things with this campaign is one we need to really anchor into this category because people are going to be looking in physical spaces for a category that doesn't exist today. So how do we celebrate the category and deepen the moat, you know, and neuro's ownership, but also tell people that this exists. And the second one is neuro just launched a new brand mark and new packaging. So we wanted to make sure that that was front and center. So we took a look at where we have this kind of engagement campaign for the first time. And it's scary, right, because you're like, oh, we're used to performance marketing now we're going to do a little brand marketing. Like how's this going to work? But really we knew what the strategy was and we went in there and we said we have limited time with people so having the performance muscle, we're hitting it on. Like we need to show the packaging. We need to talk about like if it's smart gum, you know, what, what do we get in a second? Like how do we transition in a second of like we need to show something that's slow, lethargic, not so smart. Like how do we get people there in like a fraction of a second? And so we made some friends with some, you know, friends with a sloth handler. Right. And the sloths, we use their name, Stella, Enrico. And they were great on camera, just fantastic. And being able to bring them in and people see a sloth and they get an emotional response and they're like, oh, sloth, that's fun. And then they see A sloth chewing gum and they smile so you get that momentum. But we get to play in the pack and show the new packaging. And then the whole campaign is gum is dumb and neuro is smart. And I recommend everyone go out, look at the, try to watch the 32nd spot. It's, it's really fun. Our sloth friends play a concert piano and you get to. They even got some tears from the audience.
- [28:43]
B
I love it because you're used to. Every time you see a sloth, you see it moving at a pace that you can't even. It kind of breaks your brain a little to be like, that's how they move. They, they're literally that slow. And then to see one doing something in a, you know, accelerated learning capacity is, is a good, a good frame breaker. That's like, okay, just trying to have,
- [29:00]
A
have some fun and, and hit the message quickly. And Neuro' right? Like, we're efficacious. We deliver great results for people. But like gum and mints, man, like let's, let's have some fun and you know, get the product out there. And our brand voice is really about when we look at like building this brand for the future that, that personable like shareability that like gum and mint lives in. It's like we have a functional product. But yeah, we're not, we can, we're going to have a little fun along the way.
- [29:31]
B
So, so, but as you. I'm just thinking about it like, and you're not gum and mints, but you also, you're not just a category creator. You're like a category merger because you get to take the best aspects of like coffee or Red Bull energy drinks. Right? And there's, there, there's so much you can bring into the brand to make it cross categories. People that are like, oh, instead like you say, people are chewing it between their coffees or whatever. Then there's there's the supplement aspect. It's, it's.
- [29:55]
A
That's exactly it. I think, you know, when we look at engaging, you know, like what is our comms hierarchy? Like, what is that architecture? Right? Is we're, we're engaging people, then we're educating people and encouraging and embedding, which is like a familiar comms architecture. Like when we're engaging people to enjoy some gum and mints and to have some fun with it. Like, did you know about smart gum? That is very new because we spent a lot of time in the educating and encouraging, you know, like performance marketing world. So. But when we look at the brand and the potential is, you know, we're, we're not like supplements. We're unlike energy drinks, some somewhat like coffee that would like bring people together or have like a ritual. But we're very much like gum and mint. So we're beyond freshening breath and it's a key, key positioning for us that shareability and, and we, we're always talking about that is like if you pull out a pack of gum or mints, you know, it's almost rude not to share. So like when we have anyone has Neuro on them it's like the pack is gone. Right. Like everyone's sharing and everyone's excited about it. So you don't do that with supplements. You and I aren't going to share an energy drink most likely. I mean I would in a pinch. But somewhat like coffee. I mean like we would go get a coffee together and it would, it would create community. But you're not going to share that coffee and you're not going to always have a coffee in your hand like you would have gum mints in your pocket. So we do look at the, this frame of reference on how we have to build a brand that can tap in and bring everyone together around this like community and shareability. And that's really what, what Neuro's been very successful at. And you know, this campaign shows that connectivity and that fun that the brand really exudes.
- [31:41]
B
You have multiple halos operating here across your retail and your TikTok. And how do you actually quantify your halos?
- [31:48]
A
Yeah, so we do have an mmm to look at like how these investments will work over time. Now this has only been out for two weeks. Right. So we can't really see this but the early read is like phenomenal. We use the MMM to, you know, assess TikTok Halo inner workings. With DTC and Amazon, our meta spend, everything that we do and this, you know, having the brand tied into this is, you know, just part of our evolution as a brand. So you could imagine everyone get stressed out when you spend brand dollars because you're like, you put that dollar down and what do you get right? So we have to really believe that it's time to build a category. We have to believe that we can engage people in a meaningful way. We really have to trust in the team and the talent that we have, the right insights and the right execution and you know, early read as we do. But it doesn't make it easier if you can spend a dollar in performance and you're saying, you know, the bigger Ideas to, to take a portion of that into brand. You know, it's still not an easy decision for any, any company but that we're, we're hitting that life stage and we're hitting that like channel expansion.
- [32:58]
B
What are the signs that a brand would want to take that risk and grow out of performance into brand marketing? And really I guess it's the legs on the stool. It's like you want, you want to have retail momentum, you want to be maxing out I guess your presence on the digital platforms. Anything else to look for that brands might be in a position right now to think about taking that leap into, into more branded advertising.
- [33:19]
A
Yeah, I mean our physical availability expansion is the biggest piece right Is if we're going to go into the Walmarts, the Costcos, the 7 11s, the CVS's and you know, really kind of push out and we're going to focus on E Comm and driving our entire E Comm channels. Like we have to build that halo, like what is Neuro and we have to have a way to build that brand for, you know, build some long term brand value and recognition. It's interesting because we started talking about TikTok, right? And that TikTok conversation and that halo is much like what a brand halo would be, right. But it on TikTok everyone else held the microphone, right? So you just, you're working with, you know, you work with 20,000 creators and everyone's telling a great, you know, job story like what job this does for me and how incredible this product was. But if you think about it, we have incredible founders. You know, Ken and Ryan do a great job and you know their story is, is so compelling and they're just incredible humans. But the brand itself has never picked up the microphone. So when you start saying like what would Neuro say? You know, you realize that that breadth of distribution and the size of the business that you know it's time to, to pick that up and pick up that mic and start talking and that, that's really, you know, when looking at different businesses if you're, if you feel really good about that shelf back like you're spending you know, at retail, the responsible way you're spelling, you're efficient in E comm and you're leaning into growth the right way. Like if you feel like you're running the Playbooks, right, but your distribution's expanding, that brand moment that's coming, you gotta, you have to take a look at it.
- [35:03]
B
I am just waiting for a brand that I've had on this podcast to do a Super bowl ad. And I feel you've got the sloths, which could be like the Clydesdales. The Clydesdales with Budweiser. You could be the sloths and you could do a good riff on that. But I'm just like. I just think when you have a product like this that goes across so many categories, is so easy for people to pick up, so interesting for people. I feel like you have an opportunity in the next several years to be in a Super bowl ad if the CPMs make sense. What do you think?
- [35:27]
A
Oh, man, I hope so. I think that would be really fun. You know, it still would have to make sense. You know, we're very responsible and logical, so it'd have to make sense. But I wouldn't rule it out. I feel like every day when we look at our consumers and we have incredible retention and we look at our consumers and opening up new households and how people are using neuro, just the difference we're making for consumers and understanding that segmentation and building on, building on it, I wouldn't rule out a Super bowl commercial at all. I think that the mainstream appeal is real and I think it'd be a lot of fun. You know, I think our slops would like it, too, if we. If we hit that campaign keeps going. That'd be fun. I think so.
- [36:09]
B
They just love the gum.
- [36:10]
A
Yeah.
- [36:11]
B
So where do you. So this is a baseball game. So we're in a baseball game. What inning are we in? In the, like, curve of Neuro or just the adoption of smart gum as a category? We're still pretty early innings, I think, right?
- [36:23]
A
Oh, yeah. When you put it that way. Oh, man, Eric, like, smart gum is a category. It doesn't even exist.
- [36:28]
B
Like, no.
- [36:29]
A
Walk into a store, walk to the smart gum aisle, show me where it is. Right, right. You're in inning one for the category. You're starting to see some functional confection out there, right? Functional snacking. Like, there's some stuff where a few brands are getting bigger and you're like, where would that go? Right. And the story is very similar to neuro, but I would say as a category, you're like, in that first inning, you know, Neuro just being out ahead in the E commerce presence and the success that we've had, I think we're a little bit farther into the game. So, you know, maybe inning two or three, but there's just. When I have a new friend here asking me if we're going to have a Super bowl commercial. Soon I feel like, you know, we're, we're on, we're on the right path, but we still have a long way to go and the potential is like incredible. So I still, I like to think it's still very, very early.
- [37:21]
B
And then just in your retail expansion, like, how. What percentage of penetration do you have versus what you're looking for at this point?
- [37:29]
A
Well, I would say, you know, if we look at like our company, you know, last year we were over 90% E commerce. You know, this year we could be 40 to knocking on 50% retail. The partners that we're launching with and how I describe them, they are sizable partners. And that's kind of what makes them the right partners. They have enough tools in their toolbox to help us launch smart gum in the right way. So they're pretty big partners. So I think, you know, this shift certainly by 2027 will be most likely be over 50, 50, but it's really hard to say. But I think the momentum, there's nothing that's going to change people that want to try Neuro. I meet so many people where they're like, I've been wanting to try neuro and I don't even ask, but I know it's like $25 worth of gum, right? And they're like, you know, you know, that's what it is. But when, when people can buy neuro for three to four dollars a pack and, and see that it's the right product for them in I, you know, the sky is really the limit and
- [38:30]
B
you've just got the tailwinds on all like L Theanine. Every people are googling L Theanine more and more every day about it being beneficial. Can you get creatine in gum or is that just too powdery?
- [38:41]
A
We have a whole list. We have a parking lot. You know, we talk about how, you know, neuro is like cognitive, you know, wellness. We have like these terms that we talk about, but it's really about mental energy. Right now for us is the energy and focus product is great and it just, just, it works for everyone. If I could tell just a little bit about, for the audience, you know, 40 milligrams of caffeine, that natural caffeine is probably half a cup of coffee balanced out with L Theanine. It's just a nice product to use throughout the day for, you know, when that works for you and the energy and focus, that's where we live right now. But we did, when we talk about mental energy, a lot of it Is, you know, getting good rest and our sleep and recharge product, that line that we launched, it's this melt away mint, it's like zero sugar, best tasting sleep aid out there. But it's about getting that right mental energy, waking up and not having the grogginess. So as a company we look at how are we going to expand, where should we expand and how do we want to focus on these product lines and really celebrate this mental energy and what does this. So as Neuro grows and we kind of build out these categories and see where the potential is, there's no one building a true energy brand like we are. And I think it's just really exciting. It's really fun.
- [40:04]
B
I like that we got to that North Star, that, that idea of mental energy and that would you say that that sort of is like, how would you phrase the North Star of Neuro?
- [40:13]
A
We always talk about being the, the makers of the world's smartest gum and mints. And then when we talk about like what we do for people, it's really about that like you know, when we listen to our consumers, right, it's like that, that mental energy because we launch products, we have a calm product, we, we help people, you know, where they're at and we'll continue to formulate and launch great products, especially in the gum and men space. That, that if there's a need, we will expand into it to, you know, to help the neuroverse, if you will. So but like I said, it's early innings. So we try to keep things tight. Like we make smart gum. We need to build a smart gum category. We need to get that ownership and bring people in. Otherwise, you know, all the expansion in the world won't matter if people can't find us.
- [41:04]
B
Last question, just have you done anything with podcasts?
- [41:07]
A
We've done, we've, we've done a few podcasts out there in the past. We've, we had some, I don't know if you followed. We had some early, early pickup, just organic from Joe Rogan which was really fun and accelerant from there. We have, we have like some smaller investments as we learn more about our consumer base on what, what will work. But yeah, like podcast is actually an emerging place. Like as we learn more about, you know, expanding with our audience. You know, podcasts are kind of, I would say they're more test and learn for Neuro at this point.
- [41:41]
B
Well, when you're ready to get into B2B E commerce podcasts, then you can be my unofficial sponsor, and I will gladly chew. Well, I don't know if I can chew gum and talk at the same time, so I don't know if maybe with Neuro I can. There you go. There's a new ad for you. Chew gum and talk at the same time with Neuro.
- [41:57]
A
Yeah, look, Eric does it. You can do it. Maybe we'll just. We'll focus on the mints first. You know, there's, like, gum on your microphone. It's gonna be like, I don't know.
- [42:06]
B
Nice. Well, thank you for coming on the DTC podcast today. If people want to follow your entrepreneurial journey, can they add you on LinkedIn?
- [42:13]
A
Absolutely. Please do.
- [42:14]
B
And then go to neurogum.com to get your Neurogum. Thanks a lot, Brian. This is awesome.
- [42:20]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [42:27]
B
Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're not a subscriber to our newsletter, you can do that right now @directtoconsumeralloneword.co. i'm Eric Dick, and this has been the DTC podcast. We'll see you next time.