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Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Building A Strong Local Church, Part 2 | Edwin Anderson | Holy Ghost Meetings 2021 | World Harvest Church | Murrieta, CA
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Hi, I'm Nancy Dufresne. Welcome to our podcast channel. We know you'll be blessed by today's message.
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I don't think there's any other description of the Lord that means more to me than Savior. He's my Savior. Oh, glory to God. He saved me from so much. Hallelujah. And there's keeping power in that salvation. He saved us and. And he keeps us. Glory to God. There. I don't know how many ages are out there. The Bible talks about ages to come. I don't know how many ages there are out there. But throughout the ages, we'll have Jesus. Glory to God as our Savior. Glory to God. Thank you, Lord. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Lord. Hallelujah. Well, shake hands with somebody. You can be seated or bump hands or whatever you want to do. Hallelujah. Glory to God. Well, were you helped last night? Such a timely word, reminding us of our motives. Amen. And our priorities. Amen. So important. So important in ministry. You can lose focus of these things. You get just caught up in. In the everyday work of the ministry, and you can lose the focus sometimes. But when I thank God for that last night. Amen. Turn with me to Matthew, chapter 18. Hallelujah. 16, rather. I'm sorry. 16, verse number 18. Matthew 16. 18. This is our foundational text, so I want to read it again this morning. Praise the Lord. And I say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church. That's what Jesus is doing. That's what he's been doing, and that's what he's all about. He is building his church. And it's his church. It's not my church. Not your church. It's his church. He is the chief shepherd. He is the good shepherd. He is the shepherd and bishop of our souls. Glory to God. And he is. He is building his church. I mentioned this yesterday. I pointed out the fact that the word church would have immediately brought a concept into the ears of the disciples when they heard it. They would have immediately thought about a physical, literal assembly of people. Now, the universal church is a wonderful truth, but it wasn't the most fundamental understanding of the church in the first century. It was a couple of centuries later, really before. And the actual doctrine of the universal church began to really take traction. Now, that doesn't mean it wasn't true. For instance, I heard. And you've probably heard this too. I know you pastors have, when you talk about the rapture of the church, there are people on the Internet, you know, anybody can put on a suit and go on the Internet and put. Reverend so and so. It doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. But I know you pastors have read, you know, people say, well, the doctrine of the Rapture didn't exist until such and such a time, 1800s. I don't know. I don't know if it's true, because I refuse to even look into something that stupid. Just. But even if it was true, which I doubt it is, but even if it was true, it's a stupid statement, because even though if that's true, people didn't begin to formalize a doctrine of the Rapture until a certain time. The Rapture's in the New Testament. That's where it was first written. Not in 1820, but in the documents of the New Testament. And so the New Testament teaches the rapture. Well, the New Testament teaches the. The doctrine of the universal church. It's taught very clearly in Ephesians and in other places. But I guess Ephesians is probably the place where the doctrine of the universal church is more completely developed. So there is a wonderful truth of the universal church. We are all part of the body of Christ. And the universal church is made up of all believers. Everyone who's been born again from Easter morning when Jesus was raised from the dead, and they looked in and saw and believed they were born again. And from that day until Jesus catches us away, that is the church. So part of the church is in heaven, but they're still part of the church. They didn't cease being part of the church. They're still part of the body of Christ. All of those that have gone home and the church will continue to be developed and will grow until the rapture of the church. And that's the end of the church age. People who are saved during the tribulation period are not necessarily part of the church. They will be part of God's people. But the church is uniquely something that God brought to pass and is developing and adding to today. We are in the church age. Amen. We're not in the age of the apostles. We're not in the age of prophets. We're not in the. All of those ministries are legitimate, but we're in the church age. So the disciples primarily understood the word church to refer to the local assembly. Amen. So we talked about that last week. I want to move on a little bit and say again that a lot of times we refer to our churches as congregations. I do it. I'll do it, you know, today, probably because it's something that we often say and it's appropriate. But when it comes to understanding the church, a congregation can be a little bit misleading, because a congregation is a group of people who have come together. But the church is not a group of people. It's a body of people who have been called together and joined together. The local church is. We're more than just believers who have assembled. We're members of one another. We're part of a body. And we're more than believers, we're brethren. The whole concept of the Body of Christ finds its expression in the reality that we're members of him and members of one another. Now we're members of the body of Christ universal. I'm joined to my Baptist brethren and my Methodist brethren and people around the world. But God also sets us in a local church, and so he. God ordained the local church. And turn over with me to First Corinthians and look at the 12th chapter of First Corinthians, And let's just look at this for just a moment. Hallelujah in the 12th chapter of First Corinthians. Now, why am I in Romans? Let me find. Let me find where I've told you to go. First Corinthians, chapter 12, verse number 12. For as the body is one and has many members. Now, that word body, he's talking about our physical body, but he's comparing it to the body of Christ. As our physical body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one spirit, we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greek, whether slaves or free, and have all been made to drink into one spirit. For in fact, the body is not one member, but many. If the foot should say, because I am not a hand, I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body? If the ear should say, because I am not an eye, I am not of the body, Is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as he pleases. And if they were all members, all one member, where would the body be? But now, indeed, there are many members. Yet in one body, the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of you, nor the head to the feet, I have no need of you. No. Much rather those members of the body which seem to Be weaker are necessary. Everybody is necessary. And notice it says certain ones seem to be weaker. Didn't say they were weaker. Those members of the body that seem to be weaker are necessary. And those members of the body which we think to be less honorable. On these, we bestow greater honor. And our unpresentable parts have greater modesty, but our presentable parts have no need. But God composed the body, having given greater honor to that part which lacks it, that there should be no schism, no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it. Or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Now you are the body of Christ and members individually. When Paul wrote this to the church at Corinth, they would primarily be thinking about the body there in their church, their local church. Because all in the 12th, 13th chapter, he's talking about, even the left, the 11th chapter, he was talking about problems that existed in the local church, relational problems, receiving communion and the love feast and all these things. And he corrected that. He's talking to them as members of a local body, and they understood it that way. Jesus said, we read this morning, he said, I will build my church. The church is not of man's making. It's not of man's making. Pastors, you know, I was involved in a church. I grew up in a particular church that my grandmother helped found. And I was the third generation of that church. But a split occurred in that church when I was 14 years old. And the reason it occurred was because the. The. The church. The church had been built in the. The oldest. I think it was the oldest residential area of Jacksonville, Florida, just across a little small creek from the downtown area where the big buildings were, the small little creek. And then just north of that was the Springfield area of Jacksonville. And it was the first actual residential area that was plotted out by the planters back in. You know, whenever that happened. And so our church was built there. But in. In the 1960s, people had moved out to the suburbs, and more of our people were driving in from the other areas than lived around that church. But now my parents, we lived. When I was born, we lived within walking distance of that church. But when I was five years old, my family moved out to one of the suburbs further out to the north side of Jacksonville. Many people in the church did that, but some of the core families of the church, some of those original members, like my parents, some of them didn't move, and they didn't want to go somewhere else. The church really needed to relocate because most people had moved out further to the north side and people didn't want to drive in anymore. Well, the old guard, I referred to them, you know, that had built their homes and they weren't about to leave. So the pastor presented this idea that we could go out further on the north side of town and buy property and the church would flourish better there than it was flourishing. Well, the old guard wouldn't go along with it. So the pastor of the church. This wasn't a split where somebody split off from the pastor. The pastor brought in the denominational officials and with their blessing we moved out and started another church. So there was a split, but it had the, the pastor was involved in it, the pastor took part of the congregation and the denomination officials were in favor of it and we moved out. We had our first service in 1967 in a, in a elementary school and we were there. We bought property immediately. And I remember as a 14 year old going out on the property and helping clear, you know, pull vines out of trees and cut things down, you know, and, and then they started building the church. I was 14, I didn't know how to build anything. I built some bookends in junior high but they weren't square, so they knew better than giving me a hammer. So I, you know, we would carry lumber and just help, you know. And by the end of that year we were in our church and it was really wonderful. And so this church was a result of a church split, but God was in it and we had revival in that. I was backsliding during that time and as I got into older teens, I, you know, just, you know, completely backslid, left the church. But there was a good move of God in that church all of that time. When I came back there was a real revival going on that hadn't been going on before. God blessed that. But how many of you know that a lot of church splits never should have happened? People, selfish people with their own agendas and their own ideas. A lot of times will division in a church and want to pull off and start another church. Well, they do that a lot of times because they can't have their way where they are. And historically in churches that have been around a long time and you know this, if you've been involved in any of them, certain families in the church seize all of the decision making process and they run everything and we call them the church bosses. Have you ever been in a church like that? You know what church bosses are, and they make all that. I call those churches family owned and operated because God's not usually involved in any of the deliberations. It's all natural, it's all political, it's all infighting, you know. Well, when enough of the other families in the church that feel disenfranchised, when enough of them get tired of this, they'll often pull out and start another church so that they can be the bosses, so they can do the things that they want to do the way they want to do it. Well, God's not in that sort of thing. God intends for us to get along. Now you say, well, sometimes you can. What can you do with the church bosses? You ever heard of prayer? If you'll have a revival in a church, it'll clean this stuff up. Now, the church that we left, which was the mother church in Jackson, was considered the mother church. All of the other churches in our denomination sprung out of this over time, you know, people would go out and start another church, but not split it. This was the first split. And it caused a lot of animosity, you know, even between families, because I had an uncle and his family, they stayed and we left and my mom's brother, you know, and it was. It was a little tense, but generally we put that behind us. But you know what? If you don't go with God, you'll eventually see the fruit of a bad decision. It wasn't but just about 15 years, maybe 20 years, that church that had been in existence since the early 1900s folded up, had to close their doors. Well, you know, they could have been a part of a greater work, but they refused to have vision for the future. But, but I'm saying that to kind of bring balance to what I'm saying here when it comes to starting new churches, you really have to know that God's in it. Because there are so many wrong reasons that people have for starting churches. Like I said, people start churches because they can't get along. People start churches because they just don't like the pastor. And they'll pull out and start another church that has no anointing on it, no calling on it in the book of revelation won't turn there. But you know, in the book of Revelation that Jesus had a message to seven churches. And before he gave John that message or to write, write the letters to those churches, we see the picture of in where Jesus was, and he was walking around in the midst of seven golden lampstands. Now we have to. And though each one of those lampstands represented one of those seven churches. Now we have to view those lampstands as symbols. Symbol. I don't nest. I might be wrong, but I don't necessarily think in heaven there's this great big room with hundreds of thousands of lampstands. I don't think there's actually lampstands in heaven. This, the stars that were in Jesus hand, remember that? He said these are the messengers of the churches. Well, the, the angels of the churches. Messengers. They're not stars. That was just simply a symbol of them. And so the lampstands are. Were symbols of those churches. But Jesus was walking around in the midst of those lampstands and, and he gave John instructions to write to the messengers of each one of those churches, the angels or messengers of each one of those churches. And in one of those churches he said, you either repent or I will remove your lampstand. Well, what in the world would happen to a church if Jesus removed its lampstand? I think all of us would agree that it wouldn't have the blessing of heaven on it anymore. It's basically Jesus was threatening them with unchurching them. Gonna un church you brother Hagin. Kenneth Hagin wrote back in the 70s when I started following dad Hagin's ministry. Most of his books were. The little 32 page books are about this big, you know, kind of thin and authority of the believer and redeemed from the curse and right and wrong thinking all of the, those, you know, books. And he had one entitled the Ministry of the Prophet. That book is no longer in print, hasn't been in print for I think the mid-80s. In that book he, he tells about a certain church that he went to and they, and, and the pastor didn't receive his ministry. And I don't remember the whole story, but I do remember reading this that Jesus told him, if a church does not receive your prophetic ministry, he said, I will remove their lampstand. And what little power. I think this is the way it was written. What little power they had, I'll take from them. So a church can lose its lampstand. That tells me that that to me that lampstand represents the calling and commissioning of that church. Because Jesus said, I will build my church. He builds local churches. Jesus is the one. If Jesus has the sole authority to remove a church's lampstand, it stands to reason that he has the sole authority to grant a lampstand to begin with. And again, I'm not talking about a physical lampstand. I'M talking about that lampstand represents a church's authenticity, its calling, its ordination. It's sort of its status, you know, in the things of God. Well, if, like I said, if Jesus can remove a lampstand, he obviously is the only one that can grant it. He's the only one that can authorize a local church. Well, what happens when people start churches that he didn't authorize? You get a bunch of selfish people in the flesh fighting among themselves and a group of people who don't like their pastor or don't like the ways things are being run or other reasons. I've known of traveling ministers. I'm thinking of one particular missionary that I know. He ministered on the mission field for a number of years and was hugely successful. Had a powerful ministry and lived in this country, in this nation for 13 years. I think it was 13 years, had a tremendous ministry, really brought the power of God to that point. It was on the continent of Africa, brought, excuse me, the power of God to that region. And today people talk about him and the effect that he had. Many ministers are ministering nationals that were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit in his meetings and now are pastoring churches. But because of some things, and I don't fault him, I think he had every reason it was reasonable for him to move his family back to the United States. A number of years ago, I moved back to the United States. Suddenly he's not getting meetings because he hadn't. He hadn't ministered in the United States in years. And people were supporting him. Our church supporting other church, supported his ministry overseas. Well, he's not overseas anymore. He's now in the States. So the our. I gave him myself. I gave him. What was it, a year, maybe two years. I said, you know, I'm not just going to cut you off. He was a friend of mine. I said, but our vision for our missions, outreach of our church, we have a certain vision and a certain thing we want to accomplish. We want to put our money in people who are ministering overseas now. We support traveling ministry ministers here in the States, but that's a different category. You're in the missions category. We're not just going to continue to send missions offering. And you're living in West Palm Beach. It's a good place to live. They were from there, that area. That's where his wife was from, I think. And so they moved back to West Palm beach. And he doesn't have any meetings now. You know, pastors haven't been accustomed to having him. And so he started a church, but it didn't. In my view, I'm not Jesus. Did you notice that? I'm not Jesus. But in my view, he started a church for the reason of bringing in income until he could get on his feet financially. Well, that's not, that's not the right motive for that. That's not the way to start a church. You don't start a church for money. You don't start a church to keep you busy until your ministry ship comes in. Now, don't misunderstand me. God will allow people to serve in other offices until the time for them to step into. And oftentimes God will allow people to step over in the ministry of a pastor and take that role. And he's in it even though they're not even a pastor. Brother Hagin did that. Jesus allowed him to serve as a pastor, but he really wasn't a pastor. So that will happen. But that's not what I'm talking about. People who on their own just decide to start pastoring a church that Jesus is in even if you're not a pastor and God's going to move you into something else, that's one thing. But starting a church that you have no business to start, that's a different thing altogether. Because those people. And this is, this is what happened in that church when he eventually, that church eventually and never really got off the ground. But some people came to it and, you know, it didn't last very long. And now all those people feel like they've been thrown away because their pastor left shut the church down. It's usually very difficult to get those people ever involved in a legitimate church again because they feel like they've been abused and so forth. I've noticed that there are people with really powerful ministries who've been very successful. And maybe they've preached the gospel all over the world. They've touched many nations with the gospel, have tremendous ministries. They seem to think that because God has blessed them so powerfully, maybe they're genuinely an apostle or an evangelist with a tremendous ministry because God has blessed them so much and they have such an anointing on their life, surely they can pastor a church. What they don't realize is in order to function in any office, you have to be called to that office. And I don't care how many nations you've reached with the gospel, I don't care how powerful you are in the pulpit, if you're not called to pastor, it's going to be a Colossal disaster and a lot of people will be hurt by it. And so I counsel people when they're contemplating starting a church, make sure God's in it. Make sure God's in it. Amen. Well, praise the Lord. I don't want to go belabor that too much, but it's important. It's important. God appoints local churches, he ordains its leaders, and he sets members in these churches as he pleases. His church, Jesus church. Amen. Another reason that people think that. Well, let me go back and talk about this before I leave it. You know, this, this fundamental misunderstanding about pastoring and what it takes to be a pastor is pretty common. And a lot of, a lot traveling ministers just hear me out. A lot of traveling members, ministers think that the churches they go into where they, where they preach for a weekend or a few services, a lot of times they think the pastors are doing it all wrong. And the reason they think that way a lot of time is because disgruntled church members come up and get their ear and start talking to them about something. And I've had it happened more when I was younger in ministry then it, it doesn't really happen anymore because people know better, but, but because I've had to tell some, some traveling minister, you don't know what you're talking about. When people come up and get the ear of the traveling minister, what the traveling minister often doesn't realize is the story they're getting is, is there's a lot left. There's, it's heavily, it's heavily redacted. And also what they don't realize is that that church member has already talked to the pastor, but they didn't like the counsel they got. So really they're seeking a second opinion. And so I've had, years ago, I would have somebody, well, you know, talk to me and say, well, you know, you really ought to do such, such and such with so, and so you, you know, in, in, in my church that talk to them. And I, I, most of that advice is based on ignorance of the subject at hand because they don't know the story. They're only getting part of the story. And besides that even if they could somehow get the whole story, they're not anointed to counsel the pastor.
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Sheep.
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God gives the, the answer for these situations to the shepherd. Amen. So another thing that I like to advise pastors is don't ask every traveling minister that comes to your church. I said every traveling minister. Don't ask every traveling minister that comes to your church to evaluate your pastoral skills. That seems to be a real common thing. It seems to be a real common things. Maybe those of you that travel, you've. You've experienced it, you go into a church, and the pastor, you know, because pastors have told me this, I asked brother so and so, did he see anything wrong with my church, anything that I need to do differently? Well, how would he know? How would. How would a traveling minister who's not a pastor, he's not called to be a pastor, he's not anointed, he doesn't stand in that office. How would he know what is good pastoral ministry? I wouldn't presume to instruct a traveling minister about how to conduct their travel. Now, if there was some doctrinal issue that they got into at my church, I would deal with that. But as far as how. How would I know what would involve. Be involved in a traveling ministry? I've never had a traveling ministry.
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Amen.
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Even the apostle Paul. Now, the apostle Paul was a man of tremendous reputation in the New Testament. The epistles were, you know, going. Circulating around through the churches. I mean, he had a tremendous reputation, and he was held in high regard. And there's a place, and I'd have to look it up. I don't see it. Right. I didn't put it in these notes. But there's a point. You can look it up if you want to. There's a place where Paul was talking about wanting Apollos. He wanted Apollos. This was after Acts chapter 18, when we first hear about Apollos. But there was a point in time where the apostle Paul wanted Apollos to come to him or come to a certain place. And that's the apostle Paul.
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Yeah.
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I mean, if the apostle. If. If. If someone of that reputation, if pastor Nancy said, wrote to one of us and said, I really need you to do something, you know, you would do it just because. Out of respect to her. Well, this is the apostle Paul. And he wrote, he said, however, Apollos is not inclined to do this right now, so he will do it when he has the opportunity to do it. Apollos didn't agree with the apostle Paul's recommendation about his ministry. And the apostle Paul honored Apollos. He honored his opinion. He said he will get to it when he has an appropriate time. So there needs to be that. That respect. So I tell pastors, don't be. Don't be asking every traveling ministry minister who comes through to evaluate your pastoral skills, because I think this contributes to why these traveling ministers think they know how the church should be run. Because insecure pastors are always asking them if they're doing it right. Amen. God called you to pastor. He didn't. If you're pastoring, he didn't call somebody else to pastor. He called you to pastor. He will show you what to do. He will give you the counsel you need. Amen. Some people, you know, they. They want to come to your church, and they're. They're looking for a place to showcase their ministry. You know, they've got this ministry. They think these. Have you ever noticed these people really don't have much anointing on their lives? Because if they had sufficient anointing on their lives, they would be in the ministry. So they're lacking the anointing on their lives, but they think they have a ministry and they're looking for a church with a weak pastor where they can go in and find a place. They want to piggyback on. Off on that. On that church for a place to showcase their ministry. And then if you don't allow them to minister the way they want to, they'll sometimes go out and start something on their own. Well, it's, it's. It's always a mistake. It's always a disaster. Amen. I'm kind of jumping over some things, but pastors, be confident in your anointing. Be confident in your ability to hear from God. That, that. I don't mean be prideful. I don't mean to be that you should be unteachable. But if God has called you, he's going to show you what to do. I had a pastor call me one time when I was an RMAI director, and he called me. He wanted to know what I thought he should do with this problem that had developed in his church. This group of people had started coming to his church, and they had essentially taken over his church services. From time to time, they would. They would get up. There were several of them, they'd get up and just start giving prophecies to people. Just interrupt the service. Start giving prophecies, personal prophecies to people. And he called me and asked me what I thought he should do. And I said, well, you should stop it. Just don't allow it to happen. I said, call them into your office now. Do it very nicely. You don't have to be rude, but do it with a certain firmness so they know that you mean business. And just say, you know, I'm not going to allow this to happen anymore. You're not going to do this in my church, and it's not going to happen again. I said, now, the next service or two, if they get up and start doing again, and since you've told them not to, then call the ushers and have them escorted out of the building. Said, you throw them out. Don't allow them to destroy your church. You know what that pastor did? He suddenly. He's on the phone with me, and he suddenly, his whole tone changed, and he took on this real religious sound, you know. And he said, well, brother, you know, I don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit, because after all, you know, Gamaliel said, you know, I don't want to be found to be fighting against God. What it was is he didn't have enough confidence in his own ear, his own spiritual inclination. He didn't have enough confidence in his own calling and his ability to hear from God. If God had. If God had showed up and given him a vision or something dramatic, he'd have known what to do. But all of our ministry, the majority of it, is by the inward witness. He doesn't primarily lead us in these more, you know, spectacular ways. He leads us by the inward witness. But see, he hadn't grown enough to trust that. And I said, now, Pastor, wait a minute. I said, you know good and well on the inside of you, what they're doing is wrong, don't you? Otherwise, why'd you call me? He had to admit it. He said, well, yeah, I know. I said, well, then quit clowning around about it and getting all religious about it. Just do your job. Stand up and do your job well. Praise the Lord. Amen. Hallelujah. Let's go to Acts, chapter 26. Acts, chapter 26. Hallelujah. When I started my church, it's really. It's really amazing that God was in it because I had no intentions of even being involved in it. Group of people just asked me to come and help them in a Bible study. Now, I look back, that whole premise is so fraught with, you know, the likelihood that it was. The whole thing was a mess, you know. But as it turns out, these people had left their church because they attended a historic country method that had been founded way back in the 1800s. In fact, the church has an Indian name. It's called Tuscanoogie Methodist Church. And if you go out to that church today, it's just a little white frame building out in the country, and there's a little graveyard, a little cemetery out in front and to the side of the church, and there's big, huge oak tree and if you go up there, there's a tombstone that says Chief Tuscanoogie and his mighty warriors are buried under that tree. So that's how long that community goes back. Well, these people were involved in this Methodist church and they, and I won't go into all the story but they got filled with the Holy Spirit, got exposed to Brother Hagin's ministry and that's how I kind of, they reached out and got in contact with me. So I went over to help them in Bible study. Had no intention of starting a church. But I felt like, you know, if you're, if you're in a church like that, that 100 plus 150-year-old church, it's not going to change just because a group of people in there got filled with the Holy Spirit. I mean I'm not saying it couldn't but there was no evidence that there was any, that the leadership had accepted anything that church is the situation like that. That church usually will never change. God is not going to require people to stay someplace where their experience in God will wither and they'll lose the ground they've taken. God will lead you out of that. So I didn't know they wanted to start a church. They just told me they had a Bible study. So I went over there and you know, and so we found out later they wanted to start a church but I felt like God was in it. But because I wasn't interested in pastoring, you know, I said the other yesterday I was looking for my way out. I was really looking anytime God is going to move me out of here and launch me into my real ministry and well, he didn't move me or launch me, he just left me there. And I eventually I slowly came to realize that and I just say this to be funny but I didn't really feel this. I finally realized that I was stuck there. But I'm just saying that to be funny. I realized that God wanted me to stay but I still hadn't really developed much as a pastor and I was frustrated. And so in 1986 I'd been pastoring this church now for six years. Listen, it shouldn't take you this long. It shouldn't have taken me this long. But because I was so hard headed during that six years we had had some success as a church. We had bought a building and the church was growing and a lot of good things. The presence of God was in our services and I was pastoring, you know, the best way I knew from the Examples that I'd had, you know, set before me. And so. But I was frustrated, so I set aside some time to seek God and pray. So I went off, you know, away from the house for a couple of days. I was going to be gone longer, but I think it was on the second day. I mean, God just showed up. And I was meditating in this passage of scripture in Acts, chapter 19. And let's read it. I'm sorry, Acts 26, verse number 16. But rise and stand on your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose. Did I tell you Acts 26. Yeah, Acts 26, 16. Rise and stand on your feet, for I've appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness, both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people as well. Well as from the Gentiles to whom I now send you to open their eyes in order to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me. Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision. I was sitting on a chair. I had rented a little cabin at a resort, like a conference resort center. And I was sitting in a. In a chair, and I had my Bible and I had another book. I had several things, had something, you know, like some book open the Bible or some other book on my lap, and had other things all around. And suddenly, I mean, I didn't see Jesus. And I don't know if it was audible, but from. To me, it seemed like suddenly Jesus just showed up. He said, arise and stand on your feet. I heard Brother. Brother Copeland talk about that the other night. I had the same experience. I mean, it was just like, if you can imagine a drill sergeant, you know, bursting into a room and, you know, the enlisted man sitting on his bunk, and he's shining his shoes, you know, and all of a sudden, he jumps up and his tools go everywhere. I literally jump to my feet. My Bible and other stuff hit the floor. I'm in the room by my. Myself. And instantly, just like that, just like that, as quick as you can snap your finger, this passage of scripture just burned itself into me. Rise and stand on your feet. And I instantly knew that this was the vision for my church. This passage of scripture, this is what would identify my church. The moment Jesus said that to me, I mean, when he said, arise and stand on your feet. I immediately had the sense that the head of the church was just about to give me some instruction for my life. And he took this verse of Scripture and it burned on the inside of me. And I'm telling you, all of that frustration, all of that weariness in ministry and, you know, just so forth, it all vanished. It just vanished. And when I went back to the pulpit that next Sunday, instead of being a place of labor and toil like it had been, I mean, it was like a throne of power. I walked back in there because I knew that I knew God's vision for my life and I knew the vision for the church. And they were one and the same. And that was a big surprise to me. I remember that day in 1986 like it was yesterday. That thing burns in me just as strongly today as it did that hot summer day back then. I mean, I've never lost that. Paul talked about it. He called it a heavenly vision. Pastors, if. If you don't have that sense of revelation about your church and your ministry, get before God until you do, you need to know the vision for your church. And it doesn't need to be copied from somebody else. Doesn't mean it won't be like somebody else's. But it can't be copied from somebody else. It has to come from Jesus. Remember what Paul said. He said, I went to Jerusalem to convey the gospel, that I pray, preach that. He said, I didn't receive it from man. I wasn't taught it from man. It came by revelation of Jesus Christ, and it marked him. It defined his life, and he never strayed from that. Every church God raises up, he will have a vision for that church. Now, it might not happen to you dramatically like it did to me. That's not the point. But you should know that the vision for your church, and then stick with it. I never allow. From that day, that was. That was 30. It's 1986. That was 34 years ago. And every person who has become a member of my church since that day listens to the. To, well, start to say cassette tapes. They listen to the recordings. However they do it. They listened to the message that I taught when I came back from that heavenly vision and explained it to my church. Everybody that's come to my, involved in my church and joined my church since then has listened to that. Because that's the vision of the church. And it's not going to change. That doesn't mean that your vision won't grow. I'm not saying that it can mature. Because some things maybe you're not able to see right now, but the vision's not going to change. And so I don't allow anybody in my church to bring another agenda in, because some people, like I said, will come to your church, they'll join themselves to your church, and they've got their own agenda. They're frustrated, kind of frustrated minister, wannabe minister. And they've got these things that they want to do and they want to use your church. And if you allow those things like get being tolerant and giving people space to develop their gifts, it can destroy your church because those people will eventually develop a, you know, a group around their vision and it will begin to grow in your church. And down the road you're going to have a church split. That's what happened to this youth minister that I talked about yesterday, that he tried to split my church because he had a vision for youth that would contrary to. And I didn't even know what the church vision was back then in 1983 when this happened, but I knew it wasn't the direction the church was supposed to go. Talking about the youth ministry in the church, he was taking it in a direction that was not right. And so I just had to pull the plug on it. But it caused, it eventually caused a split because the people that he had influenced left with him. Because I told him, don't come back, you know, until you straighten out. And so he wouldn't repent. So he left and some families left with him. So I never allow anybody to bring another agenda into my church. I know what God calls my church to do. I know what God called us to do. I know what our vision is. I know what our purpose is, and we're going to pursue that. And I've had people in my church that, you know, started coming to my church. They were. They were helpful and a blessing and got involved in ministry and helps and things. But then over time, they begin to get this sense that they had a ministry in my church. They're not wanting to go out somewhere. They want to have their ministry in my church, but it's not consistent with the vision. And I had to learn that if those people are determined to follow their own path, they're going to have to go somewhere else to do it, because I'm not going to have these different things floating around in my church. Amen. And so, you know, I. I don't every, every department of my church, the vision for that department is the church vision, the nursery department. What's the vision for the nursery department. This, these scriptures right here, this is the vision for the, the youth, any other. The ushers, any other department of the church, the, you know, the seniors, whatever it might be, whatever the different department of my church, they'll all tell you, all the department heads will all tell you what's the vision for your department. They'll bring the scripture up. This is the vision. So I don't allow people to develop their own vision. Now, I don't have meetings where I pound my fist on the desk and demand people, you know, obey me. I do this by simply keeping the vision in front of the church. I don't talk about it every Sunday or every month. But I mean, I'm continually. Every new member comes in, learns the vision, and then I weave that vision into my messages. So frequently, people understand this is what our church is all about. Amen. It's important to make the vision known. Remember Habakkuk 2. Make the vision plain that he may run. Who reads it? Every member of a local church should be running with the vision of that church, not running with the vision of your former church. I know you pastors have heard this before. Well, that's not the way we did it in my last church. Yeah, well, you're not in your last church. You might be in your last church. I don't know. Every member of a local church is supposed to run with the vision of that church. And what I mean by that, every member of a local church is supposed to take that vision as their own. Own it and do your part to help that vision come to pass. Help the pastor and the other leaders fulfill that vision. Because that's why God put you there. God raises up churches he calls pastors. He gives the pastor the vision of the church, then he joins members to that church to help the pastor fulfill that vision. That is. That is the chief calling. The number one calling, the biggest calling in a layperson's life is to fulfill the vision of their church. That's their number one calling in life. I mean, outside of their personal life. I'm saying, you know, you have a personal life. You're married, you know, you do this or that, you know, and you, you know, whatever your job, God will give direction for that. But as far as ministry is concerned, as far as your ministry as a layperson, you're called to fulfill the vision of that church. Amen. Praise the Lord. I've had people. I've had people join my church, you know, and you can tell right away that, that they Viewed my church as a stopover. I've had come. I've had people come to my church, laymen, and they, you know, come to my church, introduce themselves. Yeah, I'm from such and such a place, and I used to be over the parking lot, you know, attendance or. I used to be in this ministry, that ministry. And I kind of in, you know, lay leadership. And I've had this. Maybe they came to my. I'm thinking this one husband and wife came to my church because they had been transferred to our community. And he didn't think he was going to be there, but maybe a year or two. He ended up staying how long? Five years. But because he didn't think he was going to be there very long. And he. And he told me, I'm over, you know, my former church. I was so heavily involved, and I. I was, you know, as a layman, I was over these areas of ministry. And he wasn't weird. Sometimes people come to church, your church, and they just don't fit in. You know, this man was. Was. And he and his wife were personable. Everybody liked them. Great personalities. They could have been a tremendous blessing in my church. But they saw my church as a temporary stop where they were just to come and get fed until the Lord move them someplace else. I'm not opposed to Lord moving you someplace else, but while you're here, get involved in what you're doing. Get involved in what this church is about. I've had people come to me and tell me, well, I believe I'm called. God has called me to go into the mission field, or God's called me to do this or that. Wonderful. You know, if God's in it, we'll help you. But they never would get involved in serving. You couldn't get them to work in a children's department. You couldn't get them. Or maybe just a little bit marginally, never really got involved. Well, you know, in my opinion, if you can't put your hand to the local church, then I have no appreciation of your call to go somewhere else. Before my wife and I went into ministry, I mean, we were involved in everything we could be involved in in our church. We had been raised that way. Our parents and grandparents taught us that's just. You go to church, you get involved. You don't sit around. Amen. Well, praise the Lord. Go to Proverbs 29. Proverbs 29. Hallelujah. Proverbs. Where there is no revelation. I think the King James says, where there is no vision, the people perish but happy is he who keeps the law. Where there is no vision, this word means a prophetic vision. And so the new King James says, where there is no revelation, the people. New King James says, cast off restraint. This word perish is an interesting word. Where there is no vision, no prophetic vision, no revelation of God, God's plan, the people perish. Like I said, the new King James says, cast off restraint. The Moffat's translation says break loose. Lesser translation says the people become unruly. How do people cast off restraint? Why do they do that and break loose and become unruly? Because they don't have a vision. Without a vision, Beck's translation says they run wild. New American Bible says they become demoralized. BBE's basic. Forgot what that stands for. One of those translations is called bbe. Bbe, I don't know, are uncontrolled. I've had some of those. The English other version, these abbreviations, I forgot what they're. The tev. Does anybody know what that is? It translates it. It's without order. It's without order. So I put all of these together and made the Anderson paraphrase. Where there is no vision, no revelation of the plan and purpose of God for a people, they break loose, cast off restraint, and become unbridled. They become unruly and begin to run wild. They're uncontrolled and out of order. And having ceased doing anything productive for God, they become demoralized and eventually perish. I have seen that so many times. I've seen that. Now, the image I get from this is just my interpretation or my better words, my application of the Scripture. The way I'm applying it is of a team of horses that all. Have all been harnessed together. They're under one yoke and they're pulling a wagon or some type of cargo to a destination. But then you have a horse that breaks free, breaks loose from that and runs off into the wilderness. He is. He's become unbridled. He's broken loose. That's what happens when people get out of a church, that God assigned them to a local church. The vision of a local church is. Is like a harness that harnesses the people together. Now, Jesus said, my yoke is easy and my burden is light. This is not. This is not a burdensome yoke or harness. God puts us together and he harnesses us together under a vision. What he's called us to do. And every member of that church is like one of those horses we're supposed to. Supposed to run. With it and help get that. Every local church is on a journey. God is taking your church, my church, to a destination. The ultimate fulfillment of God's plan for our church is still down the road. And so we're in progress. Every church is a work in progress. And so everybody is teamed together. But then some people become unbridled. They break loose and they're just like, you know, a breakaway horse up in there. You can, you can imagine this horse that's broken loose from the team. Boy, he is, he is having a great time. I mean, he's running. You can see him up in the hill. He's running around kicking his hooves up in the air. Is it winning? Is that how you say that? The noise they make. Is it winning or whining? They don't whine. Winning. Yeah. Winnie Ing, that's a tough one. You know what they're doing. And he's just running around and just having a great time. Church members that leave and throw off the, the yoke, the. I'm going to put it this way, the sanctifying yoke of a local church will immediately feel a great deal of hilarity. And they feel such a release, they're not under. They'll tell their friends, oh, I'm just. It's been so great since I got out from under the bondage of that church. Well, just like that horse, they're not smart enough to realize that nightfall is coming. And that horse is not smart enough to know that he has thrown off, not only thrown off a yoke, he's thrown off three squares a day. He's thrown off good nutrition, he's thrown off the care of that wagon master is going to brush him down every night, take care of his hooves. He's lost grooming. He's lost companionship. Horses like other horses. He's lost the companionship of the other horses. He's lost the care of that wagon master. And he's going to enjoy himself for a while, but eventually he's going to learn. But of course, the horse doesn't learn. He's not smart enough. But eventually he's. He will, he will, he will come down to the place of not being well fed, not being groomed. He's going to, he's going to be at the mercy of whatever the environment dishes out. And you know the rest of the story. If there are lions in the area, when nightfall comes, the lions are not going to go to and try to attack one of the horses that's around. This glowing fire under the watchful Eye of the. Of the weather wagon master. The lines are going to go up to that lone horse up in the wilderness. But people, you know, horses are not very smart. But people are not very smart either. Sometimes. Sometimes people can have the most dreadful things happen to them and still not even realize what's caused it. They have no clue. I've had people that have left right now. I'm not opposed to people leaving my church if they leave right. My wife and I had to leave a church. The Lord called us to go someplace else. That's fine, but you can do it right. But when people leave a place where they've been planted, where God put them, and particularly out of strife and division, even I'm of the opinion, even if they were wrong, if they'll eventually find a church somewhere else and, you know, they don't have to repent to me, but just repent and say, God, you know, I want. My life's gotten messed up and I want to find a church. And I believe God will let them go to a church, join them to another good church, get somewhere and finally amount to something. But what I've noticed is that people that leave that way when they shouldn't have, they flounder around for years. And I've seen the. The most dreadful things happen to some of them. I've seen the devastation it's brought in their families. And a lot of these parents made these decisions when their teenage children were just at the right age where they were, you know, they were confronted with whether what kind of life they're going to live. Well, the decision their parents made. Now, I understand the storms of life come to everybody. Just because someone has experienced difficulty doesn't mean they're out of the will of God. Sometimes it indicates you are in the will of God. But that being said, I've observed over time because like I said, I've been doing this a long time, and there is a definite difference in the outcome of people's lives who stayed submitted, overcame offense, learned to put their flesh under, learned submit to others when it would have been easy to leave when it had been, well, I want to go someplace where somebody appreciates me. God put us. God put us in churches to accomplish something bigger than our own spiritual edification, bigger than our own spiritual improvement. God put us in our churches that we might collectively account and matter in a bigger way than our own lives. And. But I've seen these people, you know, they've. They leave and I've watched their. Because we live in a small community, you Know, they don't a lot of times go very far, but I've seen the devastation that has come into their lives. They've lost their children, lost their own lives. Almost, almost universally, their children never go back to church again. Almost universally. Now, there's a few exceptions, but almost completely. That's the example I've seen. God put us in local churches to develop a legacy of faith. When my grandparents founded that original church that I was raised in, they made church life everything. They raised their families. My parents and my wife's parents. Excuse me, my. You didn't know me then. What I meant to say is my father's parents and my mother's parents were both in that church. They raised their families. My parents eventually met, you know, and got married, and they raised their families in that church. And I'm that generation that they raised now, even though that church split and, you know, we went into another direction, but it was the same kind of church, same pastor, and the legacy continued. I'm still in content. I know I've shared this here before. I'm in contact with. With people that I grew up with in the 1950s and 60s. Now they're all grandparents like me. But because of the legacy of faith and sound doctrine, just good, sound doctrine, maybe, maybe wasn't all the word of faith that we know today, but it was still good, sound, basic doctrine, commitment to the local church, fidelity to church, to family, to all of those things that you need in your life. Those foundations were laid and strengthened. And like I said, I'm still in contact with these people. And my children and my grandchildren are serving God today because my grandparents and parents did the right thing, didn't get offended, didn't leave church when they could have. I don't know the details, but certainly there were opportunities they had. There had to have been. I've also seen the outcomes in people's lives that threw in the towel quickly. I'm running out of time. Go over with me to Philippians. Look at Philippians. I love this translation of Philippians. And glory to God. That's not Philippians. It's Galatians. Galatians, chapter 6, verse 7. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. Verse 9 says, Let us not grow weary while doing good. For in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart. The Phillips. That's the new King James. The Phillips translation I love. It says, don't be under any illusion. You cannot make a fool of God, a man's harvest in life will depend entirely on what he sows. And it goes on. And I don't have this part written out in my Bible, but it goes on to say, let us not grow weary while doing good. For in due season, this translation says something like, in due season we shall reap. If we don't throw in our hand, if we don't, if we don't allow division, strife, misunderstanding to get you out of your place, you will reap the right harvest. But if you do, you'll reap a different harvest. Like I said, there are these people that should have been in our church that, and I'm not opposed to people leaving, but these people should not have left. They left wrong. Their families, their direct descendants, their children paid a terrible price. What about their grandchildren? What about another generation? And I was thinking along these lines one day and I saw this. I said, future gener, this is happening so many times. And future generations have paid the price because some ancestor wouldn't put away, you know, wouldn't put his flesh under and deal with the fence. And now future generations, there are people who would have been saved, should have been saved and would have been saved. They're going to spend eternity away from God. They're going to be lost for eternity. And it can be traced right back to somebody who got out of their place place in the local church. If that hadn't happened and the next generation had done right, and the next generation, they'd be like my grandchildren. My grandchildren are full of the Holy Ghost. But if my parents or my grandparents had allowed a fence to get in and get them out of their place, who knows if I'd be here. Well, praise God. That's a sobering thought, but it's true. Amen. During, during your. During his lifetime, an individual Christian will accomplish very little of lasting effect for God apart from what he does in the local church. You can, you can be a good Christian on the job, be a good witness to people, but if you're not involved in a local church, you have no place to point them. You might get people saved, they might, you know, pray the sinner's prayer, but if you're not going to church, they're probably not going to go to church. And if they don't go to church, you get a man saved on the job, you lead him to the Lord, you know, he's still a carnal Christian, so he's not going to have a lot of fruit. And so he's going to come home and tell his Wife, he got saved, but he still acts like an idiot because he's carnal. Well, she just, she didn't want anything to do with that. So that family doesn't come to church. Those children will get saved. That salvation is limited to one. But if you belong to a church, you say, hey, come to church with me. Bring your wife, your children, you start in motion a spiritual legacy that God wants and God has for us. Amen. Praise the Lord. Well, glory to God. Hallelujah. Praise God. I believe I've gone long enough. Praise God. Well, the Lord is in the local church for a lot of reasons. Do you ever notice that God set apostles and prophets in the local church? He didn't set them in the pta, he didn't set them in the supermarket. All of the five fold ministries have been set in the church. Now they've been set in the universal church. But where do they minister in the local church? They minister in the local church. There was at the church in Antioch certain prophets and teachers and they were sent out from that, that was a local church. They were sent out from that local church. God set up the local church for all of the other ministries. Not just the pastoral ministry, all of the ministries, all of the missionary work around the world Today, I'd say 99% of it is funded right in the local church. If there was no local church, the gospel would not be going around the world like it has been for, for all of these years. It wouldn't happen. There'd be some people that I know. There are some people outside the local church that support missions. But primarily all ministry comes right out of the local church. Amen. And so you cannot underestimate the importance of being involved, connected and a part, a functioning part of a local church. Now when I say a functioning part, I don't mean just warming a chair. You say, well, they've not given me a place to work. Just volunteer in some place that doesn't even require much out of you. I, well, no, I used to teach Sunday school and nobody will let me teach. Start picking up trash outside. You'll get the pastor's attention. You just come to church early on Sunday morning, bring your own blower from home. You go on this battery operated blower, start blowing the leaves off the sidewalk before the ushers get there. It won't be long. God will open up a door for you. Everybody ought to be involved in the local church. I say it like this, if you were, and I'm not going to. I'm not. I don't like to say you're going to die because we're word of faith people. Let me just say this. If you were suddenly taken out of your local church, all of a sudden, just, boom, you're gone, would there be any disruption of ministry in your local church because you didn't show up this Sunday? And you're not, you're gone. If you cannot say yes to that, I'll just say it the way I said it in the book, as straight as I can. If you can't say yes to that problem, to that question, you are living a selfish and disobedient life. Everybody ought to be contributing. And if you have greater talents, talent than you think is being accessed, you just stay faithful. You let your pastor know that. That you are for him or her. You let them know that you believe in this church and they can count on you, that you have their back. And I'm telling you what, God will find a place for you. Everybody today talks about developing people's gifts.
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Gifts.
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Back in the 90s, that was a big doctrine. You know, there was a pastor who came to town and somebody interviewed him. What do you believe? Your role? Because it was a big deal, this church that started, you know, he said, I don't. I don't believe. He said, my primary role is developing people's gifts. Well, gifts are wonderful, but that's not the primary role of the church. Develop your gifts. The primary role of the church is develop your character. Everybody has gifts. We're told that in the New Testament. Every one of us have gifts, but not all of us have fruit of the Spirit. Not all of us have character. I would much rather have people who are faithful in my church that don't seem to have a whole lot of gifts than to have a church full of gifted people who aren't faithful. We had a man one time running our audio. I didn't know this when he first started serving until he'd been there a while. And he was running the audio board in our church, you know, system at our church. So associate pastor came to me one day and we were talking. He said. He said something about this man. He said, did you realize, Pastor, this man is completely tone deaf? Completely tone deaf. He can't. He said if he closed his eyes, he wouldn't know if it was a man or a woman singing. He's running our audio system. And immediately answered a lot of questions. But, you know, he was so faithful. I mean, you could count on him being there. That was his thing. He was going to run that audio system. That man gets promoted some. I'll find out someplace where his gifts. I mean, that will make me. That will make me search out a place and find out what are you good at because you're in somebody else's way right now. Amen. Glory to God. It's a character issue. It is. Well, I've gone on. I said I was going to quit, so I think I will. Praise the Lord.
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