← Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Excellence With Spiritual Gifts | Nancy Dufresne | Tuesday PM | Holy Ghost Meetings 2023
01:24:28
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- [00:01]
Nancy Dufresne
Hi, I'm Nancy Dufresne. Welcome to our podcast channel. We know you'll be blessed by today's message. I hope you've gotten to. And I say this because not everyone in the room has been able to be here, possibly for all the services, or those who are watching have not been able to watch all the services, but thank God for the teaching of the word that we have. My, my, my. With Brother Copeland and Brother Richard and ministering by the Spirit. And it just seemed to me when I was telling Pastor Debbie, she sang with me at my home, and I said, there's nothing like going to church and having nothing. I'm not saying there's nothing in here in your spirit, but for the direction of the service. And so what that tells me when that happens is that it's going to come hot off the wire, so to speak. And that's my. My part in this set of services. And so I don't want you to feel like, well, why didn't she teach or preach in, you know, the standard sense? We've had that beautifully in these services. But we love just seeing all the different ways that the Spirit of God answers the questions of our life. The answers, really, as we sit as students in. In this room. Because every time we come to a service, it's a place to learn, right? A place to be changed, a place to receive something more. So I trust you'll bear with me as we just navigate through this. This doesn't. You say this makes me nervous. It doesn't really make me nervous because of who I was married to. I mean, I spent almost 30 years married to a man who. They would be introducing him when we would go preach somewh. And while they're introducing him, he leans over and says, you're preaching. And I was just used to that, you know, and you just learn to take your hands off because you can try to micromanage a service and the Holy Ghost and miss the highest flow. If we always wanted a managed flow, I'm talking about us managing it. And so I just. My husband, to me, was one of the finest and most skillful at interpreting the flow of a service, interpreting what the Spirit of God wanted to do in a service, because it's in that highest flow that you get the greatest fruit in a service. And, you know, there can be different flows to a service in the sense of. Of we can take one flow that we had planned. And there may be a measure of blessing on it, simply because if you're teaching or preaching the Word. There's an anointing on that. But to get the highest anointing, the highest flow, I don't just want. I don't just want any old flow. I want the highest flow, right? And that has to be learned. That has to be learned. Just like the congregation has to learn to flow with every single bend in the flow of the Spirit, that we learn to respond to what he's doing. And we don't just say, we'll do something. My husband and I say this because my, my, my, what a blessing. I think this is one of the things that my husband said that helped me most about following the Spirit. Because as we've talked about quoting dad Hagin, what is God doing in these days? He's raising up strong local churches that flow with the Word and the Spirit. We are word and spirit people. And that's not a new concept. That's the day of Pentecost flow. Amen. And one of the things that my husband would say. Go ahead and you can be seated. One of the things that my husband would say, and y' all can just stay there. The choir can go, but the singer. I don't know, just whatever. The choir can go. Beats me. We'll know when we get there. Right? But my husband would make this statement. And this is, to me, one of the most valuable statements that my husband made for me as a minister and for any minister. He said, if you don't know what to do in a service now, please understand me. Because some people will watch this and go, well, in my church, they always know what to do. What are you talking about? They'll think you're talking about being unprepared. I'm not talking about being unprepared. I'm talking about being sensitive to what the spirit is wanting to do. And my husband said, if you get in a service and you don't know what to do, meaning you've got to find the highest flow for that service. He said, go with the first thing that comes to you when you hit the pulpit. That's huge. That is key. I have done that time and time and time again because unction will come and utterance will come, and God will readjust what you thought was gonna happen in the service. I can't tell you the scores and scores of times I stood by him as he prepared to go to the pulpit. And he'd say, my sermon just flew away. When your sermon flies away, let it go. Don't capture it with your fearnet.
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Pastor Craig
And.
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Nancy Dufresne
Go, no, no, no. That's all I got. That's what we're going with. Yeah. And he said, go with the first thing that comes to you. And I've learned this. When you're in that and you go with the first thing that comes to you, and you may go a little bit down that direction, down that lane, then don't let the mind kick in and go back to the notes and then quench that flow. We've come here because we want to learn more. Right. We want to receive more. And I so appreciate when God provides us a room of the spirit to where we can move together in that. You can. We have to learn to go with the anointing that's in the room because you can sense one thing when you're in your car and you hit the room and it's different. Go with the anointing that's in the room. I think it. Ed used to say that all the time. If you sense a healing anointing. Yeah, that's good. There you go. You don't have to go, what do I do? If you sense words of prophecy coming up. Ta da. There's your direction. You just go. And then you don't let your mind kick in and grab it. The first time Ed and I ever operated in tongues and interpretation of tongues, we were in Canada. And I don't know if y' all would have been in that service.
- [08:22]
Pastor Craig
But.
- [08:22]
Nancy Dufresne
The pastor's son in law, as you know, we came out and got ready. Ed was ministering that night, and the pastor's son in law came out. He had been doing things. The pastor had him doing things in the back room. And so he came out a little bit after the rest of us were out there. And the moment I saw him, the word of the Lord came.
- [08:42]
Pastor Craig
Psht.
- [08:44]
Nancy Dufresne
I knew exactly what to say, but I wasn't preaching. So I was waiting. If God has that, then God makes the space for it. You don't kick a space into. You let him open up the space. Because there is such a thing as a spiritual etiquette about how to minister in the spirit and flow with the spirit. And I say this because people will sense something. But there's an etiquette. There's a spiritual etiquette that just because you sense it doesn't mean your number has been called. You know, there have been times I will be driving to church on a Sunday morning. I'm not ministering. Pastor Morgan pastors. I pastored for 25 years. My family helps me now, but she'll be ministering. I know she's going to minister that morning. And on the way to church, that healing anointing will come in my hand. Tangibly I feel it. I don't go and say, oh, I've got a healing anointing, Morgan. I can feel that. I just sit back and I watch her get up and she says, there's a healing anointing present. And she ministers, all I doing is sensing what God is, what the flow is. That's not my instruction to take over. And I sit back and I just let her do it. And the more we. The further we go in some of these things, we should be sensing the direction of services that we're in because we have a supply to bring. And it's not necessarily the visible supply or the front supply. Sometimes it's as a greeter back at the door. And you sense that there's going to be healings that day. Then you say, come on in. The power of God is ready to meet you. As you're greeting people at the door, sense the flow. The word talks about if someone has a. If someone is prophesying a prophet and there's another that stands by that gets something that you take recognition of one another. But notice this. It says, if there's no interpreter in the room, then you speak quietly to yourself. So notice you're picking up something. But he says, keep it to yourself. If there's no one present to interpret that, well, dad Hagin would teach us there's such a thing as interpreting the flow of the service. Last night was a demonstration of that. I was not to do the whole thing myself. I pulled on different ones. I was interpreting who the spirit and what the spirit was directing. So you know what's no fun? I mean, growing up in high school or junior high, I have an older brother and older sister that played sports then. My other brother and I, we were the musicians of the family. But we would go to ball games, and you would, my brother or my sister, and you would see somebody be a ball hog. When that game's over or at the next time out, somebody's gonna get the tongue lashing because you are not the whole team. And when the spirit of God wants to incorporate someone else into, you have to be sensitive to that because just because you're sensing it doesn't mean that you're the star of the team.
- [12:22]
Pastor Craig
Amen.
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Nancy Dufresne
You're welcome. Because people will come to services like this and sense something and they'll want to say something, do something. You have to discern just because you're Sensing it is not a directive. This is part of skill. And you know what? You won't know it unless you're taught it. So don't feel bad if you didn't know it. Because as the anointing increases in these last days. Why? Because God's raising up strong local churches that flow with the Word and the Spirit. So we should have more operations of, yes, the teaching of the Word, but also the flow of the Spirit. And as a congregation, you need to be able to sense what God is doing in a service. So why. So you can hook in and help. If I could say this. Enhance the. Instead of try to draw it a different direction or do something that diminishes it, or just stand there and active and say, I don't like that part. I like this other part, you know? Right. And so we have to realize, you know, there are times I would go into Ed's meetings and I would sense something in my hand. I'd sense it in the afternoon, just in the hotel room. But that was not my cue to go to my husband and say, I'm preaching tonight. You know, it's one thing to discern, but it's another thing to know the use of what you discern, how to use it or how not to use it. Maybe it's just to pray for the service. I will sense that tangible anointing come into my hand at different times. You have to learn. We're doing a magician's handkerchief. Just pull the corner and keep pulling and the rest comes out. So bear with me. I started a story a minute ago, and y' all are gonna have to remember where I left off and remind me I started something y' all don't remember, do you?
- [14:32]
Pastor Craig
Oh. Oh, the tongues and interpretation.
- [14:34]
Nancy Dufresne
Thank you. Remind me that. Cause I need to go back to that. Now, where was I? No, but before that. Before that. Before that. Before that, I said. I said. I said, yeah, before the handkerchief thing, just. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. And so. And so. And so you can sense something, but you can even be in a service. Oh, I know. What I was going to say in line with that is I will sense a tangible anointing at different times for different things. And you have to learn to connect the dots of how God uses it with you. And that's the term. I connect the dots. That means pay attention. What happened the last time I sensed that anointing? What directive did he give me? Because sometimes if I sense an anointing I've never sensed before, God will tell me what to do with that anointing the next time. I sense that he expects me to remember. He doesn't expect me to ask every single time. If, unless he directs me, I always keep my heart open. But if he doesn't say anything, then I go back to what did he say last time about this anointing? Connect the dots so I will sense an anointing come into my hand. I've learned this. This is the way it works with me because I've learned to connect the dots. I'll be at home in the afternoon before service and I will have a flash of that tangible anointing just for a moment in my hand and then it leaves. I've learned that that means he wants me to operate by word of knowledge regarding healing. I've learned that then some other times it will come and it will stay. It won't flash, it will stay. And many times if it stays, it'll keep going up the arm because it gets stronger and stronger and stronger. I've learned most of the time of that it's impartations, maybe for ministers or something else. See, it's a. It behaves a little bit differently then other times I'll be at home and I'll sense that anointing come in my hand. And I'm not even doing anything spiritual. I got no service coming up and I'll recognize ah, that anointing came in my hand. What's that for? Usually I found out this many times there's an angel present. Well, there's always my angels present, but I'm talking about one that is on assignment. Yes, in connection with that. So what do you do when you sense that? I just pray. Sometimes when God's wanting me to pray about something, I'll sense that anointing. What is it? It's just power that's present. Just because power is present doesn't mean you go around laying hands on people. I don't walk out and start laying hands on people that might be in my house Because I sense anointing in my hand. We learn to connect the dots. I don't know how I got off on that side. Now let me thank you. Go back to Canada. So this, the pastor's son in law walked out and a word came. But Ed's preaching. I don't just get up and take over. I don't take over. I don't do something that draws it to me now because I've got something. Let the spirit of God make space. Don't kick your space into place because it's going to be off putting to other people because it will grind on other people. Present pastors and pastors wives need to learn this with each other because like I said, here I am, I'm the minister's wife. But just because I picked up something doesn't mean that I get to get up and start saying to my husband, I got something. Because it not be all putting to him, it'll be all putting to the people. And you can grieve the Holy Ghost not handling things right because there is a spiritual etiquette. And so I sensed that. I didn't say a word. I didn't say a word to anybody. I just, it was like I had an entire paragraph. I mean a long paragraph. I knew the whole thing, Knew the whole thing. And I had never had that before. And so Ed started preaching. He's done preaching. And he says, God is adding to my wife and I the flow of tongues and interpretation. Well, that's the first time I ever heard about that. But most of my life was public. Ed handled much of our marriage, much of the direction of the ministry publicly. I heard about it the first time that they did. That's fun. I didn't say that as a negative. That just keeps everything fresh. And so he finished his sermon and then he said, we're going to minister in tongues interpretation. I go, we are. Do I get the tongue? Can I please volunteer for the tongue part?
- [20:12]
Pastor Craig
Please?
- [20:13]
Nancy Dufresne
Pretty please. And so I'm going on tilt watching Ed involve me. And he goes over and goes to the pastor's son in law, pulls him out and starts speaking to him in tongues. And I'm going, I guess I'm in shell shock because I've learned that a ministry's been added to us, you know, of tongues and interpretation. I'm trying to wrap my head around that, I guess. And so then he's speaking in tongues to him. And it dawns on me, oh, wait, I got something. That was one of the few times that the interpretation came before the tongue came, which is so impressive with God. It's so impressive about God. He can give you the interpretation of what has yet been said.
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Pastor Craig
Said.
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Nancy Dufresne
That's impressive. So I go, oh, oh, I got this, I got this, I got this, I got this, I got this. And so I just gave it. And I looked like I had been a pro. I've been doing this for years.
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Pastor Craig
Years.
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Nancy Dufresne
And my flesh felt really good because I already had that. Felt really good. And then he goes around to others and he's saying stuff and things Are just coming up. I go, oh, just coming up. Oh, it's nice and strong. And that's easy, easy, easy, easy peasy. And so then we would get in services, and I wouldn't have anything come to me about anything. You know, I'm just sitting there listening to my husband preach, and all of a sudden he'd say. He'd go up to somebody and he'd. Is there a mic here? Is there a mic? Yeah. Thank you. So he would walk in front of somebody and just speak in tongues. And then he'd grab a mic and say, here, I'll go, I'm sorry, I got nothing. See, that wasn't an option. I'm sorry, I got nothing. There you go. You got it. And I remember a time or two early on, because I expected that every time that happened, it would come as strong and as easy as that first time. That was nothing but a welcome gift. That's what that was. Because it doesn't operate that. It operates to different degrees. The anointing flows in different degrees based on several different factors, based on the people's response, based on just based on several things of what's happening in the room. And I've been to those in those services when Ed would speak in tongues, and, I mean, I got nothing, nothing, nothing. And it was like, you know, you're just throwing me to the lions here. Can I have the tongue next time? And for a few times, and see, this is years ago, but a few times. A few times I got that. Okay? A few times he would. He would give the word, and I would just stand there and wait for something to come. He'd hand me the mic, and I'd just wait for something to come up. And nothing came up. And the longer I stood there, the more mental I became. And the mind kicks in and starts. When that mind kicks in, you're done. You're done. There is no flow there. So I had to learn. I had to learn, keep this quiet, Keep this quiet. But I had to learn that when nothing is flowing up, he would say this. Just dip down and draw it out. Remember him saying that? Dip down, dip down. And there I would have to dip down and draw up. And you say, well, how do you do it? I would say, and the Lord says, and I got no idea what's coming after those words, but what am I doing? I'm dipping. And when I would say, and the Lord says, and here it comes, then I will watch Ed on a few occasions, take people and do, like, demonstrations with them, like, make Actions. It's like, do I gotta do that? I'm talking about in tongues. He took a man and threw him against the wall. And I go, well, shoot, I don't know what that's about. I'm watching. Beats me. As I'm watching this, can I please, next time have the tongue? And I. Thankfully, I just said, and the Lord. And I just started going after that man. Why? Because if you pause, if you pause, you doubt. If you hesitate, you doubt. And I've learned, just grab that mic and open your mouth and just go at it. And as you do, you'll draw out something. And I remember in particular that. That one man, and he threw him against the wall. And I said, well, I don't know what that was about. I don't know what. And then up came the words, now that your back is up against a wall, are you going to. And then here we go. It's like, can I please get the nice part? But I learned this. Don't pause, just step. Why? Because if you're trusting the Holy Ghost, you know he'll meet you in your movement. He won't meet you in your hes. Well, I didn't intend to go that way, but. And I didn't overlap him. I didn't step into his flow. If he gave the tongue, I didn't try to give the tongue. If he gave the tongue, I didn't try to add on a tongue. There's an etiquette. He gave the tongue, I gave the interpretation. I didn't start giving a tongue after that. That's his part. There has to be a regard for Amen so that people. Anyway, this is going to help somebody. Before we go any further, let me go over. So let's go to 1 Corinthians, chapter 14. And I want to see a particular word here before we do what we're going to do. First Corinthians, chapter 14 and verse 12. I just. I'm after one word here. Even so, ye. Forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, notice, just because you're zealous doesn't mean you're skillful. And he's telling them you're zealous, you're interested, you're desirous in the direction of spiritual gifts, seek that you may excel to the edifying of the church. The church will not be edified if you don't excel. This word excel, we could say it's in connection with this word excellent. If we're not excellent, no one's edified. So seek to be excellent. Or we could say this skillful. It's not enough to be desirous and zealous. You have to become skillful, which means you have to become a student. Somebody's got to, you've got to listen to somebody, sit under the demonstration of somebody who flows that way so that you can excel. Because no one becomes excellent self taught. You have to get around it. You have to be around that flow, observe that flow, demonstrate that flow. To be able to demonstrate that flow with excellence and to excel, you practice. You have to practice. And we're patient with each other as the Holy Ghost is bringing us into greater and greater excellence. Excellence. To be excellent, we have to be excellent students, not just students. Excellent students of an excellent flow. If we watch a flawed flow and call it the Spirit. Years ago we were in a church and my husband was preaching. And before, and this was a way of this church, when we would go on occasion and they would have praise and worship and then different ones would start calling out, supposedly prophesying from all over the congregation. And every time someone did that, it was like somebody pouring a bucket of water on a fire every time. One night we counted 20 something people that did that and it was, yea, yea, the Lord saith, I loveth thee. Well, I'm not mocking that. I'm saying that there's going to be, it's going to edify the body. And Ed said to the pastor, because every time we would go, you would see that happen. So, you know, it's happening most every.
- [31:07]
Pastor Craig
Service.
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Nancy Dufresne
And it just throw, it just digs the hole a little bit deeper and you're throwing the service in it, you know, and then now the preacher has to get up and climb out of that hole. And so Ed said to this pastor, why do you let that go on? You know, that's not the Holy Ghost. He says, yeah, but the people feel like they're getting to contribute. Yes, but what you're doing is you're training them in error and calling it the genuine. They're practicing error, but they think they're in the flow. That's not an excellent flow. And they're being maybe excellent students of a wrong flow. Moving with the Holy Spirit is not weird, you know, and. There are ministers who have stepped back from the move of the Spirit in their services because they say, we want. When people come and they're coming for the first time, we don't want to run them off by a move of the spirit. Well, two things could be happening there. Number One, it's a wrong move. It's an erroneous flow that they've labeled the Holy Ghost. And that is repelling even to someone who maybe just be visiting for the first time in a new believer that doesn't set right. And it goes. You go, they're weird. And so they don't come back because there's not an excellent flow or number two, what they're doing. They themselves, as ministers, never learned it. And so they're robbing the people of that flow because they didn't learn it. How do you learn it? Only one way to learn it. Get around it. You can't learn it in a book. You've got to get in it, get around it, and you can't. Years ago, my sister and I. I don't know if she's watching, but I'll tell off on us. My sister and I, before I was married to my husband, we decided to take a class in making stained glass windows. That is nice, right? Really useful. Useful. Very useful. And we took a class. We go. They showed us the basics, and we said, we got it, we got it. We go out and we buy all this stuff. And we made a big old window. We had it all laid down in her kitchen, shards of glass everywhere. And we made something. It was big, but we got it. Because we went to one class. We got it. We saw the foundations, the fundamentals. We got it. We know what we're doing. But our window looked like we went to one class. One class did not mean now you're excellent. Now you have arrived. That's why I'm saying it's a repeated being around being around being around being around being around it. And this is why we talk about fof as so important, because it's just people who. We're moving together. We're. We want to be around it together. And then when ministers or pastors make this statement, we don't want the flow of the Spirit in our services, because when visitors come, it runs them off. You are implying that the Holy Spirit injures the harvest, that he's offensive to the harvest. You're saying that you love the harvest more than he does, when really you love numbers. And you're gathering numbers. You're not. You're after the numbers. I'm going to be nicer in a few minutes. Don't ever accuse the move of the Spirit turning hungry people away. Every man saved and unsaved is hungry for the supernatural. Saved and unsaved and unsaved and unsaved. They're hungry for demonstrations of power. They know they need power. Why do you think they go to the bars on Friday night? They're trying to get a different flow than what they're experiencing during the week. They're looking for another flow. And at least they recognize the flow of my weekly life is not enough for my life. And they don't know where to go, so they're going to substances. But I love what Sister Cindy said. This is substance. Yeah. So we have to make sure as preachers and teachers, we don't preach and teach past the Holy Spirit and preach and teach him out of the room. Brother Richard Roberts was in the back with us, and he again. And I've heard him say it before, he said a minister asked him, asked Oral Roberts years ago, tell me how I can. I don't know the exact question. I don't know. Were you back there when he said this? But how can I be more effective in ministry? Basically was the niche of that. And Oral Roberts said, preach shorter and minister longer. In other words, don't use up all the space for your sermon. Because I love what Pastor Debbie Simon said on one time. Help me if I say it wrong. But she said, sometimes the preacher's heart can get satisfied because he got his whole sermon out. But the Holy Spirit is grieved because he didn't get his way. Something to that effect. Don't teach or preach past the anointing and take all the time away from him when he's wanting to do something different. That's why the Holy Spirit does not need to be relegated to the back room by pastors. Pastors just need to become excellent at flowing with him. Because when he is flowed with, what happens? He doesn't speak of himself. What's he doing? Jesus says, if I be lifted up, I'll draw men unto me. The Holy Spirit is in that service to lift up Jesus. To lift up Jesus. So it's not about keeping things, managing the Holy Ghost out of a service just so people can be reached. You have to let him loosen the service so that the people can be reached. But that calls for excellence. It calls for getting around and learning the flow. Amen. And for 25 years, this precious congregation has let us practice on them. But that's okay. You got a little something in the learning. Amen. So it is our privilege to get to come together and become students. So that being said, just stand with me to your feet, if you would. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. I remember, I don't know, a couple of years Ago, some of y' all will remember I had called up some Stephen. Remember this, Stephen in a service like this. And I said, okay, you're to do the tongue and I'll do the interpreting. He says. And I said, so just whoever the spirit draws you to. And he said something like, I don't know what you're talking about. And so right in front of everybody, we had an instruction. Just look out among the people and you'll seem to have a drawing. Sometimes in following the Holy Spirit, you have to learn this. When it talks about the gifts of the Spirit. And then it says, in First Corinthians 13, verse 1, I show you a more excellent way and talks about love. Notice this. To excel in the gifts of the Spirit and to know even how to minister. Sometimes you get in a service and you have a. You look at somebody and there's just a flow of love that comes out to you for them. That's because there's a gift of the Spirit for them. The Spirit is drawing. He has something for them. So that's what, basically I was telling Stephen. When you look at the people, who are you drawn toward? And so he called out people and he spoke in a tongue. And then I would interpret. And then it dawned on him later that, I don't know, maybe the day before or earlier that day, he had some people on his heart. Well, see, he didn't make the connection at that point, but it dawned on him the next day, and we did it again. Then he said, come up here. He said that to me. Get up here. And he started pulling out people and. All right, here we go. I'll tell you this just because I like telling it. Remember when the tongues interpretation started And I said to the Holy Ghost, can I have the tongue? Let. Ed did the interpreting. We were down at Brother Norville's one time and Ed and I flowed in tongues and interpretation. Then I had to leave and go home. And Ed was left there and he called me the next night and I said, well, how'd your service go tonight? And he said, not very good. And I said, why? He said, norville wanted to do tongues and interpretation. I said, who got the tongue? He said, norval. I said, how'd the interpreting go? He said, not very good. That's just a little bit.
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Pastor Craig
Just.
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Nancy Dufresne
Not spiritual. Just my enjoyment right there. With prophecy, words come up with interpretations. A knowing comes up and you've got to put words on that because in its interpretation. That's why if someone were to. Let's say you had a Couple people that were used with interpreting, of interpretation of tongues, they would come out with the same message, but say it may be a little bit worded a little bit differently, but the sense of the message would be the same. Why? Because it's an interpretation, it's not a translation. I mean, it's. It's not a word. It's how you're interpreting what the Spirit is saying. Anyway, let's just worship the Lord a few moments. Father, we thank youk. We thank youk. We thank youk. We glorify. We glorify you. We magnify you. We glorify you. We magnify you. We worship you. We worship you. Holy Spirit, we so value who you are in us, through us. And we're so thankful for your movement, your flowing in our midst. You are ever so welcome to have your way. We honor you and we're all learning and we thank you for giving us the opportunities to learn because we don't want to just be zealous. We want to be excellent in our. In our zeal for spiritual things. So we thank you. We glorify you. We magnify you. Let's just lift up your voice and let's just worship in the Spirit.
- [45:07]
Pastor Craig
This is. This is for the church, for the pastors. I know we're doing a lot of worship things in the afternoon. I was raised Pentecostal, so I've always been around circles or a group of people that lifted their hands. And this may seem so simple in the last maybe year, maybe six months, it seems like I have extra direction, utterance, or just a little. It's not like a thus saith the Lord, it's just a leading. Tell them to lift up their hands. Now you did it just because we said to do so right then. I don't know really the fullness yet of why I keep saying that to everywhere. We need to lift up our hands right now. We need to lift up our hands.
- [46:16]
Nancy Dufresne
We need.
- [46:17]
Pastor Craig
And I'll just do it like that, Joe, you, music person, minister, preacher, and all of that. Same for you. I don't know if the other minister, musician, preacher, hybrids, you know, you're both a preacher and a musician and operate in those flows. But the only thing I know, Pastor, it seems to me this is all I've got. Heaven is trying to come into the local church. And I know in my circle, that I grew up in, they would say things like, we're having a move of the Holy Ghost, we're having a revival. But one thing I've noticed Is heaven doesn't move until he's invited the Holy Ghost. Is the Holy Ghost take over. I've never seen the Holy Ghost take over until someone reaches. There may be more to the that than I know, but I just keep coming to that. That when we reach up. And the only way. The best illustration I have at this point is I'm a dad. I have three children. The oldest is about 30. The youngest is in college at 19. I've always, always been a traveling guy and simultaneously pastored for 13 years and traveled on my own and traveled with Brother Copeland. It's very hard for me to hold still. I've never held still. But when I get home, I would be so tired. I'm like to my wife and my children and I love them beyond words. I was like, I don't want to talk to anybody. I just. Where's the dark room? I'm going to bed and I'll see you in a few days. But particularly my girl. I have one girl and she's going to love it that I said it was the girl. Because there's two boys and one girl. Maybe she's five or six. I might be on the way to the bedroom. I'm tired. I don't have anything. I don't feel like I have anything to give. No. God always has something to give. But if she saw me and she just went like this, daddy. And she put up her hands and she reached for me. Game over. I don't care what I did or didn't want to do. I don't care what was on my heart. The dad in me responded because my daughter and the boys and sons girls first were reaching for their dad. Does that make any sense? So can we just do that one time? Knowing. And I don't like to get overly. Sometimes you say these words and I'm apprehensive because I don't want to sound like a crazy. If I can just say it this way. A crazy Charismaniac. Now I'm totally Holy Ghost, spirit filled. But I've seen so much stupidity that when they say things like I'm creating a. And they'll use different words. And I'm not even gonna say those words. So you see, I refrain from saying. I actually believe that when everybody does the same thing at the same place at the same time with the same faith and using the same voice or the same hands, it brings us into one. That place.
- [50:07]
Nancy Dufresne
Yes. Of one everybody.
- [50:09]
Pastor Craig
One. Yes. Of everybody. This is not just for the singers and the worshipers. So I'M gonna do this, and then I think I'm gonna say something in your ear.
- [50:19]
Nancy Dufresne
Okay?
- [50:21]
Pastor Craig
So let's just reach one more time and open your mouth when you reach for heaven. Because the sounds of heaven need to come to the church. Thank you, Father. We lift up holy hands without any reservation or hesitation. Thank you, Jesus. It's mighty power and he's great. I can hear the brush of angels wings. I see glory on his face. Surely the presence. Of the Lord is in his place. Holy. The presence of the Lord. Is in this place. I can face his mighty power. I'm going to demonstrate one more thing. Can we do that one more time without the backbeat? Because I need to hear the voices. This is really key in worship. Now we're going to sing that one more time. I want harmony, bro. You're like a beast on the drums. You're doing exactly right. But what I'm trying to go is one more place. Sing it in three part harmony and play a little bit louder. And we need to hear strings as well. Surely the presence of your simple swells. It's the grace. There's a grace. I can feel the brush of angels. I see glory on his face. Surely the presence of the Lord is in this place. No, no, no, no. I'm trying to get you this. Six minor. I'm sorry, that was a bad call. Let's just. This is a demonstration. Surely too minor. The presence. Sing with me. Of the Lord is in this place. Six minor. Two minor. Surely the presence of the Lord is. One more time with. For me, the presence of the Lord is in this place. Go ahead. That was important to do that right there. Because in the worship part of this afternoon, the Lord keeps telling me to try to get churches learn how to not just cap out at one level and flatline the service. When your spirit knows there's more and you're trying to elevate up, just make little adjustments. Sometimes you need to pull back on the instrument part and bring up the voices so we all get in one. Does that make that place of one? The oneness Congregations, sometimes they can listen to the band and then they're not engaging with their faith by way of their voice. That's why I had to do that right there. I just wanted to demonstrate to the pastors. Just elevate the worship. Elevate the worship.
- [55:38]
Nancy Dufresne
It's the people that are anointed.
- [55:40]
Pastor Craig
The people, the people.
- [55:44]
Nancy Dufresne
He was talking about, about. Hands up. One of the main things, the primary things I did the day my husband went home to Be with the Lord. I've got to stay out of here. I've got to stay out of that mental. That means I'm going to have to occupy the space. And the way I did. I didn't just walk around my house doing this because when you, I mean, days and hours like this, it's like I'm saying my hands are off this thing. My hands are off because it's so easy to try to handle what you're facing. And my hands are off. Not barely off. They're off. When. When in some sports, is it wrestling? I don't know. I don't know. And they. They'll hold that opponent down and when that ref does the countdown, they. I'm off. They're not just like. They don't just get up like this. And when you're faced with something, sometimes just doing this is. You think that it's just a. Well, it's just the body out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth. The mouth is in the body, meaning the mouth gets engaged. So when the heart is full, the body will get engaged. I did not walk around the house. And I'm trying to help people who are facing crisis, tragedy, difficulty. You will prolong the circumstances by just going around half hearted, wholehearted. It is. I'm just saying it's a dramatic action I'm taking to say I can't fix this. And the best way I know to say it, my hands aren't just barely off, I'm taking them off. This is in front of me. The situations, hands off. Your. Your direction. And I noticed for me personally, when I would walk through the house and I don't just go this way. It's nothing wrong. I'm not saying this is wrong. Don't miss. I'm not getting legalistic. I'm saying there's something internally in my spirit that responds differently when I go like this as opposed to just a limited action. Try it at home. Seriously, try it before you go to bed. Or when I like doing it when I first get up because it helps me to get connected to the right arena. I'll get up and I'll just. High. It's going high because seriously, it is an outward motion of an inward reach. So I appreciate that he said that because that matters when we come together. Just think what that does unitedly. So much of what I've talked about, you might, the congregation might be listening, saying, well, what she's talking about really applies so much to the, to the fivefold ministers. Yes, but what he said Applies. It's our part. Every service. Every service. And we all have to be skillful. It's not just the skill of the minister. It's the skill of the people going with the minister saying, yes, yes, come on, we'll go with you. We'll go with you in this flow. We'll not just sit back and go, hope you. Hope you make it. Amen. Hallelujah. Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Let's just worship. Do it. We worship you. We worship you. We worship you, Father. We worship you.
- [60:08]
Pastor Craig
We worship you.
- [60:11]
Nancy Dufresne
We glorify. We glorify. We glorify. Go ahead. Just. Do you want to. You want to. However, I don't know if you want to call up pastor. I don't know.
- [60:28]
Pastor Craig
Whatever. But that was greater revelation than I had had to this point. Why over the last six months, that. Why what you just said.
- [60:38]
Nancy Dufresne
Hands off.
- [60:38]
Pastor Craig
Would find myself throwing hands up, like. Because every 80% of everything that I have a fervency about, I have no clue of how to do it.
- [60:50]
Nancy Dufresne
Yeah, right.
- [60:51]
Pastor Craig
I have no clue.
- [60:52]
Nancy Dufresne
And he doesn't want us to. He doesn't want us to insert us. He just wants us to take hands off so he can work unhindered by us.
- [61:03]
Pastor Craig
Y'.
- [61:03]
Nancy Dufresne
All.
- [61:04]
Pastor Craig
That was. Y' all take it if you want it. That was a word for me. That's why he keeps leading me to do that. Just throw it back up to me. Throw it back up to me.
- [61:12]
Nancy Dufresne
It's an outward demonstration of an inward decision. Yeah.
- [61:19]
Pastor Craig
Here's what I said to Pastor when you were just. I can't let go of where you were. Pastor. This morning, Pastor Craig. Pastor Craig on. There's a higher level of partnership for some people that are to surround the assignments of this ministry. I can't get away from that. And so what I said to Pastor Nancy is I have no clue of how to do this, but she said, just obey God.
- [61:54]
Brother Copeland
Just.
- [61:54]
Pastor Craig
Just. Just do whatever you see yourself doing. I'm going to say one thing, and then I'll see if we're supposed to act on something here, Brother, because that was not quite. We went as far as we could today. But there's something more in that elite team that's called. There's a grace to surround the assignments of this ministry on that, Brother Copeland. And if I think I've said this enough, and I don't say this bragging fall will be. This fall will be 30 years that I have been with him. Just a couple of years back, we were flying back from somewhere, and I Just stared at the back of him. And the word of the Lord came to me and he said, I did not put you around him just to play the piano for him. He has something that is not musical for you. Lay hold of it. Don't just think musical terms. Well, if you know anything about Brother Copeland, I've heard him say this many times. He doesn't say it in the main service, but in the partner services. What he preaches, the vast majority of that he gets when he's praying for his partners. His sermons or his teaching or his revelation that he brings to the masses, even on TV or in the Crusade. That is a result of what he was trying to get to his partners. Yeah, that's the thing. That's if you know anything about Kenneth Copeland, man, he has this thing about partnership in him. He's got revelation. And so, in fact, when I ministered here on a midweek service, and I thought we were just going to sing the whole time, and you know what happened there? The Lord said to me, he said, if I don't give you something else to preach, just know I automatically you're going to preach increase. That's one of the reasons I put you around him, because you have an increase anointing on you. It did not come directly from heaven. It came by way of the man you've served for 30 years. So what's on him? I'm not a prophet. I don't stand in his office. But what is on him, I carry a measure of that. But it's not a magical deal where you just lay hands on people and suddenly money starts showing up. That's not the deal. Today, brother. In fact, I was gonna say this after the service. I just didn't know that I was going to say it in the service. I was gonna say, I don't know when, but that anointing for that higher level of partnership, somehow it seems to me the Holy Ghost wants to make that transaction in this meeting.
- [64:59]
Nancy Dufresne
Can I say something here? Pastor Debbie's chapter in the Bible, what's your chapter? It's Second Kings. She goes through many chapters in there. The woman who built a room for the prophet, she took it a whole nother level. So what he's talking about. And I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about the principle. The truth of this is that when she recognized, she perceived he was a holy man of God, she said, I'm building something on my house. This is coming into my house. And she put out great expense. Why? For. For what the man carried. And of course, she got a child out of it. And then when her child died, she got a child raised because it's a higher level. It's a whole level, a whole nother level. It's not. She's not just somebody who attends temple. She brought it home to her. And so it's perfectly right to regard that there are certain people who have the capacity for another something more. I'm reminded of this. I won't tell the whole story because there's a whole other story in connection with this, but David Oyedepo, I asked Brother Copeland because I know he preaches for Pastor David Oyedepo in where he's at Lagos, Nigeria. And Brother Copeland, Sister Copeland were there holding meetings. And she said to Pastor Oyedepo, she said, when I come back, next time, can you put more. Either more lamps or more lighting? Because she said, it's dark. I can't see my make to put. Men don't know anything about this, but women need light for makeup. And then we need divine light. For once we leave that light so that we still look, you know, airbrushed. So she asked, can you give me more light? He said, yes, I will. You know what he did? He built her a house. And he says, no one stays in this house but her. He didn't. His way of building her more light was a house. It's a mindset. It's a mindset. Okay. Now, I just wanted to.
- [67:52]
Pastor Craig
And here's the other side of that story. I've been to that house. That man not only built Brother Copeland a house, he built two other houses for the staff that comes with Brother Copeland to have a place to stay when we assist him. Now, we don't own the house.
- [68:12]
Nancy Dufresne
People will call that waste, but we call it honor.
- [68:16]
Pastor Craig
Did you hear what she just said? The world would call it waste, but that man values the anointing. So he, Pastor, not only built Brother Copeland a house, he built two other houses. I stay in one. I stay in one side. Buried up stays on the other side. Security stays in another side. He actually built three houses. That's almost sound like. Let's build three tents and stay that story. All right. This is all I know to do, guys. I'm just going to get real with you. Hallelujah. And I feel like you're supposed to come up here. Hallelujah. And you can interrupt me because I interrupted you today. And if I was out of order.
- [68:58]
Nancy Dufresne
No, you weren't out.
- [69:01]
Pastor Craig
Okay. You can correct me publicly.
- [69:04]
Nancy Dufresne
No.
- [69:04]
Pastor Craig
Hallelujah. What I said just a moment ago that when I, in thinking about this afternoon, I was like, we have to pull the trigger on this higher level of partnership which really will primarily come from the five fold ministry and pastors and ministers and the whole church will get behind the pastor because that pastor's getting, becoming a part of a much higher vision. Let me just say it like this and I need to just be really bold right now. It'll cause the anointing to kick in a little better. Hallelujah. Some assignments won't cut it with $100 offering some assignments. Praise God for whatever you bring. But some assignments will not get done with churches. Just saying, here's my thousand dollars annually. It won't get it done. Somebody help me right now.
- [70:02]
Nancy Dufresne
And that's not diminishing what people can do, but it's a, it's a soberness about the assignment.
- [70:10]
Pastor Craig
So I'm going to hand this to you in just one second. I, Unless pastor has another direction, I feel it's double day. Wait a minute. This is double up day. Double up day. This is not an accident. It seems to me may not be everybody here. There's some pastors and some people in this room. When that was given this morning, you knew, all right, this is a different day. This is a different assignment. This is a different. We're now in a different room. We're in a different realm. I've got to do something that I've never done before. I've got to lay hold of this right now. And what came to me this afternoon is don't let the meeting close. Because if you close this and you don't pull the trigger on the anointing, if you wait 30 days, that anointing won't be there to act on it. Does that make sense to you? I'm going to yield to you. I feel like we're supposed to do something. It may be the pastors moving forward that, that registered with you because we're.
- [71:11]
Nancy Dufresne
Not talking anyone into it. We're talking about respond to what's what, what the spirit initiated with you.
- [71:18]
Pastor Craig
It's a confirming thing. I'm not asking you to do anything.
- [71:21]
Nancy Dufresne
Yeah.
- [71:22]
Pastor Craig
I'm just confirming and I hope you believe me when I say this. I simply want to put my hands on your hands as a point of agreement from this standpoint of faith. And if this is weird to you, so be it. I'm believing for that higher level. I believe I have the right to because this is all led by the Holy Ghost, that when I put My hands on you. That same thing that Brother Copeland carries, that comes to me by way of just. Guys, there's an anointing by association that when I put my hands on you, something's coming on you. You're going to be able to do the wildest things, the most extravagant things, the most. Ephesians 3:20. Like, bigger than your biggest dream. If you lay hold of somebody else's house, God will build your house. If you lay hold of somebody else, a partner with their assignment, God will fulfill yours and your dreams. That's what I feel like I'm supposed to do.
- [72:52]
Nancy Dufresne
Yeah, do it.
- [72:53]
Pastor Craig
But I'm. It's nine something. No, no, you're the best.
- [72:57]
Nancy Dufresne
No, do it, y'.
- [72:58]
Pastor Craig
All. We doing this, guys.
- [73:00]
Brother Copeland
You're going to have to help me.
- [73:01]
Pastor Craig
Okay.
- [73:03]
Brother Copeland
I just want to read 1st Chronicles 14, verse 1. Pastor's talking about a house.
- [73:08]
Pastor Craig
Now.
- [73:08]
Brother Copeland
Hiram, King of Tyre, sent messengers to David with timbers and cedars and masons and carpenters to build him a house. That's the verse God gave me with Dr. Dufresne years ago. And it's the same anointing. Now. You're gonna have to help me because I've never done this and I don't have pastor's permission. But I've been praying this afternoon, and we've been believing for 50,000 for many years. We got it. 20, 22. But what the Lord said to me now, you correct me if you don't, if you feel this is whatever, but I heard the Holy Ghost this afternoon say in 2023, a bare minimum of $1 million for Pastor Nancy. And he said, there are 20 ministers that are to give 50,000 each. However, he said, that does not. That does not mean it has. Has to be that amount, and it does not have to be tonight. It could be throughout the year, and it could be a variety of different amounts, whatever God leads them. And then I said, well, Lord, how do we say that? I don't know how to say that.
- [74:11]
Pastor Craig
And then.
- [74:12]
Brother Copeland
But I. I just feel there are. There are 20 ministers tonight who can give 50,000 for the first million toward her gen.
- [74:20]
Pastor Craig
Here's what you don't know. When I was pastor, I was supporting Brother Copeland around a thousand, a couple of thousand dollars a month. I can't tell you exactly what year it was, but the Lord said. And he was everything we had. The Lord said, when you go to the believers convention, I want you to take a $50,000. I went and asked my wife, do you have a witness on that? Hoping she Would get me out of it. Everything we had in the whole church, 50 grand. We didn't have a building. We're mobile. I'm in two different buildings every week. Setting up and tearing down, that's all I had for a building. But it wouldn't go away. I took my $50,000 and gave in the Southwest Believers Convention. Within just a few weeks, money came in, so I took a second $50,000. Are you listening to me? That figure is not an accident. That was the first breakthrough seed I ever sowed into Kenneth Copeland Ministries was $50,000. But I didn't just do it once. I did it twice. And I'm not going to tell you all the stories of the harvest that has come off that. You just must trust me. It's the way to increase. I gotta put my hands on somebody. There's tangible anointing in here. If you're a pastor and this is registered with you or your run down here right now. Lord, we magnify you. Lord, we magnify you. Thank you, Jesus. I just want to mention. Apostolic. Apostolic. Apostolic. Show him. Show him that next step. All right. Can I go fast? I'm going that way. Hallelujah. In Jesus name. In Jesus name. Open heaven. Jesus name. In Jesus. Jesus name. Things will change. Things will change. Things will change dramatically and suddenly. Things will be rearranged. Increase. Increase. Oh, my God. Latter greater than the former. Sharpen him. Sharpen the tool. Sharpen the tool. I hadn't seen nothing yet. Hadn't seen anything yet.
- [77:26]
Nancy Dufresne
Name.
- [77:28]
Pastor Craig
Increase. Increase. Increase.
- [77:29]
Nancy Dufresne
Increase.
- [77:30]
Pastor Craig
Increase. Increase. Increase. Thank you. Mighty. Mighty. Mighty. Mighty wave. Mighty wave. Mighty wave. Mighty wave. A mighty wave. A mighty wave. Wave after wave. Wave after wave. On every wa. Wave. On every wave. On every wave. Coming back to you. On every wave. Eyes to see, Lord. Eyes to see it. Suddenly. Suddenly.
- [78:07]
Nancy Dufresne
Power.
- [78:09]
Pastor Craig
Sudden power. Mission accomplished. Mission accomplished. Mission accompanied. Thank you. I don't know what that word pioneer means. Increase. Increase. Increase. Increase. Increase. Increase. Dramatic miracle. Increase. Miracle. Increase. Increase. Miracle. Increase. Miracle. Increase. Mighty. Mighty. The mighty ones. The mighty ones. The mighty ones. Thank you, Jesus. Miracle. Miracle. Miracle. A miracle. A miracle. A miracle. I must.
- [79:09]
Nancy Dufresne
Must.
- [79:17]
Pastor Craig
You can do it. You can do it. You can do it.
- [79:20]
Nancy Dufresne
Marilyn.
- [79:23]
Pastor Craig
Movement. Movement. Movement. Jesus.
- [79:36]
Nancy Dufresne
Much, much, much.
- [79:41]
Pastor Craig
Hands. Hands. Pastor. You move, lord.
- [79:48]
Nancy Dufresne
You. Jesus. You.
- [79:58]
Pastor Craig
Suddenly. Suddenly. Can we. A congregation. Everybody put up your hands right now. Do that one more time. But you guys put up your hands down here. Heirs. Heirs. Heirs. Heirs. And joint heirs. Joint with another mission. Joint vision. Joint vision. Visions. Joining of adventures. Joining of visions. Increase More than you Know it's more than you know. It's more than you know. It's more than you know. I hear one word. This is not just for the line. Miracles. Miracles. Miracles. Miracles. Miracles. Miracles. Miracles. Why do we limit miracles just to physical bodies? He did not just open blind eyes and deaf ears. He multiplied things. He multiplied things. He. He multiplied things. He multiplied seed before the service was over. Why are we limiting God? This is what the last thing that was in my heart this afternoon, Pastor, when you preached on travail this month, five something right around six. Travail. All the spirit filled prayers know. You know that thing where you can't even. You don't have words, your stomach starts shaking and you're just. I just knew that it was this elevated, or at least I think I knew it had to do with the elevated partnership. Team, team, team, team, team. So I don't know what you're getting ready to do, but did we receive an offering? If we did, we're getting ready to do with another one. Or. Or. I'm not sleeping tonight. You have to act. You have to act. You have to act. I didn't start out with $50,000. You've got to act. I want you to do two things. I want us to sow to these higher assignments tonight. And I want. If you have a figure in your heart. I've done this so many times that you want to sow, but you don't have the money right now. Just so toward it. And hold that up in your heart and in your hand, whatever that figure is. I'll give you a hypothetical. Let's say it's a $50,000 figure. I ain't got 50, but I got 5. I'm so in my 5, but I'm calling it 50. I'm so in my 5,' but I'm calling it 50. It's only 1 0, guys. I'm so in my 5th, but I'm calling it 50. And then put something down in this atmosphere between you and God and the Holy Ghost and take it home with you. And I taped mine in the kitchen. I will do that. Does it make sense? It's just my way of being a little bit belligerent and obstacle. And when the devil said, you don't have that, I said, no, it's written. It is written. I wrote it. Write the vision. Write it. Write the vision. Make it plain. Keep it before your eyes and sow a seed toward it. Can we all do that together?
- [84:18]
Nancy Dufresne
We trust you've enjoyed this message. Visit us at defreshministries.org to learn of our upcoming meetings, share your testimony, become a partner, or visit our online store. This program has been made possible by the friends and partners of dufresne Ministries.