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Dufresne Ministries Podcast
The Conviction of Faith | Debra Simons | World Harvest Church | Murrieta, CA
00:52:57
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Hi, I'm Grant Dufresne, and welcome to Dufresne Ministries podcast channel. We believe that as you listen to this message, your faith will be stirred and you will be encouraged in whatever you are believing God for today. Stay tuned at the end of this message to find out more information about our ministry. Amen. You may be seated. Once again, I enjoy the Bible School immensely. There's something about being able to minister to people that have recognize that God has more for them, and they're willing to open up their hearts and their ears to hear instruction so that they can fulfill the plan of God. They're hungry and they've made sacrifices to get here. So when you've done that, you're not casual about what's being fed to you. And, you know, really, we should all stay that way. Sometimes we let the cares of life and the routine of life try to steal that from us. But we should always remain a student in our heart so that we'll always extract the very best of what God has. How many of you know that when someone ministers to you, there's things generally that everyone hears, but there's something that you hear inside of what is being spoken, and that's what you want. You want to get not just what everybody heard, but you want to hear something else, something that God was saying that, you know, you. You pressed a little harder to get it. Amen. Let me go ahead and pray. Heavenly Father, I'm so grateful and thankful to be here. I hold a great honor in this place. It's such a value to so many lives and especially to myself and my family and our church. And I thank you, Father, for this privilege and this honor. And I thank you, Father, that you will say tonight what you want said and that people will be encouraged and they will be blessed. In the precious and mighty name of Jesus, Amen. And amen. You know, when I got saved and I began to. I got into a Word and Spirit church or Word of Faith church, and I began to read the material that we had in our bookstore. And it's. It was about the. Really, the life of faith, you know, that people had. It was the revelation that they got when they walked with God. And many of the books that we had, you know, and still have, you know, it was men or women giving their testimony of what God had done in their life, what God had prompted them to do, and how they did it. And when I would read these things, you know, I'd get stirred in my heart and I would think, how did they do that God, how did they bypass their senses and trust you in a way that caused your power to move on their behalf? How did they do that? I read about Kathryn Kuhlman, and they said, kathryn Kuhlman, in this one book that I read, she would come into a city and she would find the most expensive place to rent, and she would walk in there and make a deal with whoever was renting it as if she had all the funds to pay for it, and she would sign a contract. And really, in essence, she would be putting God on the spot. She would get everything that she needed, the equipment, and she would hold a meeting, and the budget was met. You read about Dr. Sumrall. He, you know, waits in his room. He's getting ready to go someplace else. He doesn't have a ticket to go. And he tells God, I'm not leaving this room until you bring me a ticket to go where he's staying. It's kind of like a boarding house. The woman knocks on the door and says, breakfast is served. And he says, thank you, but I'm not coming out, and I'll be up here in my room. And he tells God, you have authored me, and I'm using my words to go to. I don't know if it was China, wherever else he was going. I'm not even sure if I remember exactly where he was going. But it was another country. You've authored that, and so you're obligated to take care of me. So I'm not leaving this room until you bring me a ticket. He said, I had my suitcase packed. I was ready, and somebody came and knocked on the door and brought him a ticket. And I used to say to myself, how did they do that, God? I'm a baby Christian now. I don't know anything much about the things of God. I'm just getting into it. How did they do that? I had read about the gifts of the spirit, and I thought, could that have been the gift of faith? That's probably the gift of faith. I want that. I want that gift of faith. I want that supernatural faith to come on me so that I won't doubt. But how many of you know that's not how they did it. That's not how they did it. They didn't do it by the gift of faith. They did it by conviction. Go with me to Hebrews 11, starting in verse one. Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Let me read this to you in the amplified translation. Now, faith is the assurance the confirmation, the title deed of things we hope for being proof of things we do not see. And the conviction of their reality. Faith is the conviction of their reality. Dr. Sumrall had a conviction that God wanted him to go and preach the gospel at a certain place. And that conviction was so big in him, it was so real, that he could put a demand on the power of God. And the power of God showed up. How many of us would have waited a little while and then decided, maybe I should get my American Express out. Why? Because maybe our conviction isn't as strong as it should be. Faith, it's the assurance, the confirmation, it's that conviction, that reality on the inside of you that this is of God. And if it's of God, I should not be denied it. If it is the will of God for my life, I should not be denied it. John G. Lake. Oh, I loved reading about John G. Lake. He went to Africa and all the things that he did there. And I would think, how does a man like that do that? I mean, you know that they've got the anointing, but how do they go not knowing how they will be sustained? Finally, I figured it out. This is the life of faith. This is the life of faith that we live every day. We may not be at that level, but we're at a certain level where our conviction should be as such that we are able to shut down our emotions and shut down our mind and trust God, because that is the life of faith. Hebrews 11 is all about the acts of faith. And one thing that we better understand, that if we are going to operate by faith, we're going to have to continue to have faith acts, which means we're going to have to continue to move forward. And every time that you receive instructions from God or you receive really like divine revelation that this is what God has for you now and you have to move towards it. I've never known, I don't know everybody, but I have never known many that started with more than enough. And even when you get to a certain level where all your needs are taken care of, God is still going to require for you to do something that's going to take more than what you have available to you. So if we're going to live this life of faith and the Bible tells us the just should live by faith, then you would think by now we'd be used to this. At some point this has got to stop bugging me. At some point I. I gotta get a clue. This is how God does things. He Authors me to do something that I cannot no way do myself. Absolutely no way. And when you accept what he's offered you in moving forward, accepted the plan, you have to accept that you're going to have to walk it out every step of the way by faith, believing that you have it before you see it. Pastor Nancy came to our church and she began to encourage us on, because we're moving forward towards a building right now. We have something on the table with a man for land. We have secured a first place, but we have to come come up with something in so many months. Whether we come up with a down payment or we get the full financing, right now we're looking for the financing. And so, you know, it seemed like once we stepped into that, this is generally what happens. The devil tries to manipulate circumstances to make you believe that this is not the time, that you should be moving. And after a while, you get used to that, that he's going to do something to make you believe that this is not the time or this is not the plan. That's why when you get directions, you have to recognize his voice to know that it is him. But once that you know that it's him, then you have to realize that the next thing that's going to happen is that the enemy is going to try to tell you how it's not going to happen, how it's not. And when we grow with God, we get through things, and somehow we find ourselves in these places again. Except the risk is bigger. You ever notice that? I remember a time Pastor Nancy was telling us, you know, to stir yourself up, you have to remember what God's already done for you here. That's what she said. And I thought, you, you know what? Yes. How much has he done? When our pastor was getting ready to go to another city and he was going to pioneer some other churches in another area, and he left my husband and I with the church. He was getting ready to depart, and he said, because we were renting facilities. And he said to my husband, he said, I'm not going to feel released to leave this church until I can leave it in a building. I. I need you to go and find a building. So my husband went around town and he saw this one restaurant that had been empty for a while. And he asked him, he said, what do you think about this restaurant? He goes, well, really, I think it would be a lot of work. And I think what he may have been thinking was it would take too much time to secure the people there before he felt like he had the release to leave because he wanted the church in a building in its own place before he left to do whatever else God had called him to do. And so, you know, my husband kept looking for, you know, empty buildings for churches and, you know, because we felt like we were just going to get into a building instead of built. So finally, you know, the pastor, you know, talked to him again. He said, johnny, I need you to find a building. He said, well, said Pastor, I've looked all over, and really there's not anything that's zoned for a church or anything like that. He said, what do you think about that old restaurant? You know, and, you know, he really didn't want to because he felt like really there. It had some things in. In the structure design. It had a loft. If you're going to put a church in there, you're going to have to take that loft off or you're going to have to put an elevator. And there's a big law about elevators and all of that. So he didn't want to do it, but of course, he felt like, you know, it was. It was closer for him to leave. So he wanted to get us somewhere. So he said, go talk to the guy. He finally gave in. He said, go talk to the guy. So my husband called him up, the owner of the building, and he said, you know, we'd like to buy this. We have a church and we'd like to buy this. You're selling it? Yes. How much are you selling it for? 850. 850,000? And he said, well, he said, that's a. That's a. It's a good price for the building. He said, but congregation that we have, I really don't want to put them, you know, under that type of financial pressure. So thank you for showing me around. You got a great building. And so he left. Well, then the man himself, a few weeks later, called my husband back. He said, john, come. Let's come look at the building again. So he went to look at the building and he said, john, I really think that, you know, your church would be good in here. This building would be good for them. Why don't I sell it to you for, you know, 550? He said, it's a great price, but really, I don't want to put our church under that financial burden right now. And so. But the man had a bad back, and my husband noticed it, and he said, what's wrong with your back? He says, oh, I've had trouble with it for years. He said, Let me pray for it. I said, all right. So my husband prayed for it, and he left. And a little bit later, the man calls him back, said, meet me at the building again. So they go back to the building. Now, in the meantime, my husband had a figure in his spirit that he told no one. So he goes back, and the man says, john, I really think that this building will be really good for your church. What if I sell it to you for 350? 350,000? He said, LOL, it's a deal. And he says, well, he says, let's get it into escrow right now. Can you put a good faith deposit down? Why don't you give me 50,000 down? He said, sounds good, Lowell. I have to get back. We'll raise the money. We'll come back, we'll give you 50,000, we'll get into escrow, we'll do the deal. He says, well, wait, wait, wait. He says, you guys are selling some property to Home Depot. And he says, yeah, we got that in the works. How about we just go down and start the escrow? We'll open up escrow with $5,000. We'll put it in escrow. Then when that land sells that, you give me that 50,000. And then I'll carry the note. Everything will be square. Okay, well, can we go down to escrow today? He says, well, I go back to the church, and I'm going to raise the money. Now, we didn't have 5,000. We didn't have 1,000. We didn't have $100 extra. I did the books. I knew. So the man says, oh, John. He says, look, I'm gonna go down to escrow. I'm gonna give him my check for $5,000. I'm gonna start the paperwork. Soon as you get the money, you come, you bring the money. They will release my check. Cause they weren't gonna cash it. They were just gonna hold it there. He said, all right, do it. Because this man wanted to make the deal. You know, when I think about that and I reflect on that, I thought, how did we get in this building? We couldn't afford it. And yet it was the plan of God. It was the will of God. There was no way that it was in our figuring at all. This guy gave us a sweet deal. It was only $1,000 a month. And we had to get in there, though, and we had to gut it out. And we had to make it, you know, so that the city would let us meet in there. We had to, you know, pass all the, you know, permit codes. And you understand this man is financing it for us. So all we got to do is deposit $1,000 in probably his savings account once a month, and the deal's done. I mean, that's how easy it was. Now when I was in that situation, under all that pressure of, how are we going to pay that man $1,000 when we're having trouble paying all these other bills, it didn't seem like a big miracle then. It's not until after we got past it, we looked back and we went, oh, my God. You know, we wasted a lot of time not rejoicing because we kept our eye on the situation. I mean, God was trying to perform a miracle, give us a miracle. He was trying to hold us up to take a miracle. I mean, how much better than a guy financing himself, putting his own down payment to open up escrow? What more could you ask for? But, you know, when something's the will of God, but, you know, that wouldn't have happened if my husband had to met with him. Faith begins with you acting on what you believe is the will of God. If my husband had never met with that guy and never said, we want to buy your building, that man would have never had the opportunity to help us get in that building. There's a lot of things that could have been different, but this is just the way it was. We started to gut out the building. We had to take the roof off and reroof it, take a loft down. There was a lot of work that had to be done. And so our land hadn't sold yet. So we were just trying to do it piece by piece. Finally we realized it's going to take us too long. So we're going to try to get a loan to wrap up the building and have enough money to at least get that building where we could meet in it. So we go to a company that loans to churches. There was someone in our church that was sort of in that. In that industry, you know, money marketing loans and all that. You know, they. They know people, and so they got ahold of somebody that met with us, and I wasn't in all of that. That was my husband and the. Our pastor at that time. They were in all that. So I wasn't in any of that. So they went to them for a loan so that they could pay off the building and give us enough money to redo it so that we could meet in it. And then we'd have one payment. Later on, we really found out that the owner that we were paying him, didn't really want us to pay him off fast. And later he told us he would have loaned us the money to redo it. Now, I wasn't in all that, but it goes to show you how far God was moving on one man's heart. So when we go to the finance company, the lending institution, they were a credit union and they loaned to churches. And so we went to them. You understand? Now you got all kinds of regulations, all kinds of stipulations. We didn't have that with the personal loan, that man. But now we've got to meet this because this is the way that we chose to go. Really, when you think about it, probably God had a better way for us to do it, an easier way. If we'd have just gone back to the guy and said, you know, we need to do this, but we didn't want to. What would you say, overstep your welcome? We didn't find this out until we paid him off. And then he said, why did you do that? You know, I wanted this money coming in on a regular basis for retirement. I didn't want it all up one lump sum. And he said, well, lo, we needed money to redo this. He said, why didn't you come to me and ask me? I would have loaned you the money, but that goes to show you how much God was in it, that he was working on our behalf. So now we have to meet the stipulations for a company that's regulated. And I'm thinking to myself, there's no way they're going to give us a loan. I'm the bookkeeper. There's just no way they can give us a loan. I'm saying this in my head. There's no way they can give us a loan. Because the next thought, if they do give us the loan, I'm thinking I'm going to have to figure out how to pay for it. So it was almost kind of like a little bit of a relief to think they're probably not going to give us the loan. Which, again, was my head. Of course, I wasn't involved in all that. But I kept asking my husband, I said, you think they're going to. You think they're going to qualify us? He said, I'm telling you what, honey, that lender likes us. He likes us. He's working on our behalf. And you know what? He was. And he would tell us how to fill the paperwork out so that when the board read, looked solvent to them, now, we did not fill the Paperwork out like this. He is the one that told us what to do. Now, you understand, since he was the man that was putting the papers together that was helping us, it still would have looked bad on him if we did. If we did not come through. So he wasn't really trying to just take something from the company and us belly up. He really believed that we could do it probably more than we did. You know, sometimes we just bring so much hardship on ourselves because we don't have that conviction on the inside of us that God is in it. And if God is in it, how can it fail? If God is in it and we cooperate with him. But what happens, what trips us up is all of these, well, let me put it this way. Looking in the natural, which is what we do constantly. And don't get me wrong, God is very merciful. Through that whole time, it was a struggle on my mind. It was a struggle on, you know, because I'm having to look at the natural all the time. It was a struggle. And even beyond that, God still did it. We go for something again today, and my mind says, how did he do that? How did he do that? You know, we're never gonna figure out how God does something. But here's one lesson that we learn. When God's in something, he's going to back it. And we got to believe that. We got to have a conviction that the plan of God is big enough. It is so much God that he is going to back it. So many times when we're moving out in the plan of God, we almost think it's our plan instead of his. And we have to adjust our thinking that. I didn't author this, God, you authored this. I'm not doing something for greed or from some kind of, you know, lust that I want to have something so nice. No, this is what God authored. But sometimes the devil gets in our mind and starts putting thoughts and then we begin to receive them. And we're thinking like we're wondering, you know, God, can you help me? And God is saying, can I help you? This was my idea. Sometimes in our walk of faith, we forget that this is all God's idea. It was his idea for healing to be paid for for us. It was his idea for us to be prosperous. It was his idea, you know, that we would be a peaceful people, a joyful people. This was his idea. And sometimes we think that we're asking for something, wondering if he's willing that we have it when it is his idea. And we have to remind ourselves Especially when the hindrances that the enemy brings come. We have to remind ourselves, wait a minute, this is God's deal, not my deal. And if God authored it, then he is going to stand by it. And that's what we have to get on the inside of us in a greater way so that we can shoot down every doubtful thought and everything that would try to slow us down and back us down. Because you understand it's only the enemy that's trying to back you down. It's not God. It says, now, faith is the assurance, the confirmation, the title deed of things we hope for being proof of things that we do not see, and the conviction of their reality. Faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses. This is the definition of faith. Faith is for the unseen, it's not for the seen. But faith has conviction with it. There is an assurance with it. Now, the Bible says faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. We have to begin to be hearing until that assurance gets greater on the inside of us. That's why Pastor Nancy told us, go back and rehearse all of the things that God has already done for you that were miraculous movement, she says, because you're going to need all of that. Why? Because we have to be thoroughly convinced that he is able. That's it. We have to be convinced he's able to. The Bible says in Romans that Abraham was fully persuaded. Fully persuaded. Think about that. When we got into that building, the city gave us a permit to get in there, but they called us on a carpet because it was a restaurant and it had a huge sign that you could see from the freeway. They said, do you know that if you get in that building, we will require you, because you're not a restaurant, to take that sign down. Are you willing to agree to do that? And we said yes, because we're doing everything so that they will pass the paperwork so that they can agree that we can even be in that building. And so they said, now, you know that we're only giving you a certain amount of time to get it down. And if you don't get it down, we will get it down and we will charge you. And they said it would be anywhere from. I thought they even said six to $10,000. They might have just been shooting, you know, large numbers out there. But this was at a city council meeting. My husband, he stood up there and he said, we'll get it down. You don't have to worry about that. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so we get in there. We're working to get this building so that we can meet in it. We finally get in there, and we finally. The loan went through. We meeting in the building, and then the city sent us a letter. Hey, did you forget you got to take that sign down? It's a restaurant sign. We want it down. You're a church. It's an eyesore, and you need to get it done within three months. Okay? So the letter comes. We don't have any money the first month. We don't have any money the second month. Finally, they sent us another letter. You only have now so many days to get that sign down. So I said, joni, what are you gonna do? He says, well, I had already gotten a bid from some guy before, and he says, you know, so I'm gonna call him. We'll just have to move forward. So he calls the man. But when he had called him, when they first told us we were gonna have to get it down, I thought the bid was somewhere around. I thought it was over $5,000. And so this time, he calls him and he says, hey, you know, I don't know if you remember me, but I called you. You know, we're at the old Castle in Cleaver. We're going to need you to get that sign down. Now, something has changed a little bit in the economy because this man was working a lot, and now he's kind of like, in a down season. And so he says, you know what? He said, john, I just pulled your file out today, he said, and I have it on the top of my stack. And I was wondering if you were going to still need that done. And he says, well, yeah, the city's, you know, breathing down my neck. I'm going to need it done. He said, but is that the best price you can give me? And the man said. He goes, well, you know what, John? He said, if you'll give me all that metal, he said, I'll do it for 1500. And we had the 1500. That man came, he took that metal away. I mean, he worked it all out. When I began to think of all the details of things that we encountered that seemed like mountains to us at that time, and God moved on every one of them as we moved towards him. When we moved towards them, his power went toward it. If we didn't do anything, nothing happened. The one thing that we need to remember when it comes to the life of faith is faith is an act, and we're not going to get the Power moving before we move first. That's something that we've got to remember because the devil always wants to back you in a corner and make you think that you're paralyzed and that you've got no place to go. And that's when you have to decide, listen, there's a course of action I have to take here, or else I'm not going to get the power moving. Now, you understand, we've been taught that one way we get the power moving is by speaking. You understand that, but also there are correlating actions that go with your speaking. If there is something that you can do in movement, that's what you need to do before the power is going to come. Dr. Sumrall is telling the testimony about when he bought one of the first. What is it? Television station. He said, I signed the paper agreeing to pay for this, and I did not have a dime for it. He said, once I signed the paper, he said, money started coming in. He said, lord, why is this money coming in now? And it didn't come in before. He said, you didn't have the station before. He said you didn't need it. So I released it when you need it, meaning when you took that step, now that money needs to come. And that was the. That was, to him, the life of faith. Every time he took a step towards something God told him to do, that's when movement started. That's when the power started to flow. So many times, circumstances, thoughts, suggestions, even our own selves just not stirring ourselves up. It tries to get us to a place where we feel like we can't make a movement. Last year we were. We decided if we're going to, you know, if we're going to believe God for a building or buy a piece of land, obviously it's going to take more finances, so we better start increasing our faith right now. So let's go ahead and let's remodel this building. And really, we didn't have anything in any budget to do it, but we took a step and we told the guys, all right, tell us what you need. And piece by piece, whatever they needed, when they needed it, the money came in for it. And so really we remodeled it. Pay cash. But before we started, we didn't have anything for it. That money was not coming until we started the project. People didn't get excited until we started making movement. See, the enemy was always trying to get you to a place where you won't make movement. When you get to a place where you're not making Movement, then the power stops flowing. We have to understand that the life of faith is about movement. When you look at everyone here in the hall of faith, they made movement. And when they made movement, you know, by faith, they gave an offering. By faith, they followed after God, not knowing where they were going. By faith. By faith. By faith what? By movement. They made a movement based on what they knew God wanted them to do. And once we know that what God wants us to do, we have to understand we're going to have to make movement. One thing that I've been talking to my daughter about going towards this land, I said, you know, we've got to keep the people moving. We've got to keep momentum in the church. We've got to keep this before them so that they know that we're not waiting for. For something to happen, but that we're going after it. They have to know that that's our mentality, that we believe that this is the will and the plan of God so much that we're making movement after it. We're not gonna just sit and wait for somebody to knock on our door and do something for us. We have to make that movement. And so many times the enemy tries to get us to a place where he tries to paralyze us. 2007. We had purchased the plane in 2006, October. We knew it was the will on the plan of God. In 2007, we had virtually that housing market crash which affected a lot of people's jobs. I'm not sure when it started, but by, you know, somewhere in October. Well, no, for us, it was probably June, July, August. Things had really backed up because people's finances were cut. So they. They didn't have the tithes to bring our business people. Their businesses were cut. Many of them had them in housing. And so that just took a. I mean, like a. Almost like a. Like a sudden stop. So when this happens, of course, you know, we've just purchased a plane. We just added, you know, we just added something that need much more supply. And now so much was gone. You know, God gave us some instructions to that. But the point that I'm trying to make is right at the very end of this thing, for us, right before the miracle came through, it almost seemed like we were at a deadlock. The money was cut down. We're behind on things because the church finances are down. I mean, we're just trying to pay this and that to keep everything going. You know how that works. So we had a meeting here. We had one in September and one in October. And so the September one, I mean, literally, with everything, you know, your people are, they've lost money, some of them are having to move in with family members because everything's happening here. So you got people that are not overjoyed to come to church, you know, they're just like walking in like zombies, you know. And so of course, because you believe God and you believe the word says, you know, I've never seen the righteous forsaken or a seed begging bread. You know, you're trying to encourage them. You know, this is gonna pass. Come on. God can keep us through this. And so it's like you're like being a cheerleader and you understand they're struggling. So we had, I believe it was, I'm not sure what meeting it was, but there was a meeting in September here and then one in October. And so I told my daughter, I said, you know, I'm really thinking that maybe we might not go to this September meeting. This was like a few days. And I think it was, might have been a three day meeting. And it would have been the first meeting that we would have ever missed. And here is what, here's how the devil, you know, offered this bowl to me or this fruit platter. You should stay with the people. Don't leave, be here with them. They need you. They're fighting depression, oppression. This is their livelihood. Stay with them. And, you know, it kind of got the best of my emotions. I thought, yeah, maybe we really shouldn't do this right now because, I mean, everything was dead locked. And so I told my daughter, I said, you know what, we're not going to go. I made the decision, we're not going to go. And I went to bed that night and I couldn't sleep because, you know, when you make a decision and it doesn't settle in your spirit, you know, you better make another decision. And so I couldn't sleep. And I said, lord, forgive me, I have done my best never to let the devil back me up. And if we don't go, he's going to pick up momentum at shoving us back. If we don't keep moving forward under pressure, he's going to start, he's going to pick up momentum. It's just pushing us back because when we don't do this, then it'll be too easy to not do something else and nothing else. Well, why? Well, because people are having trouble with their finances. So I got up the next morning, I said, scratch that. I said, we're going. I said, everybody Bring anything you got to the table and we'll see how we're gonna get in a room and all that. Cause that's the way it works. You're all in, you know, whether you like it or not, you're all in. You're in when it's gravy and you're in when we gotta stand. It's not an option. That's the ministry. Faith does whatever it takes. So one of the gentlemen in our church, one of the businessmen that really, you know, he kept a handle on his confession and his believing and his business was not affected during that. So he calls my daughter up and he says, hey, you guys are getting ready to go to such and such. He says, I wanted to see about chartering a plane, you know, for your parents to go. And so she calls me and she says, you know, so and so called wanted to charter a plane. And we hadn't said anything to the congregation because we're faith people. We're making everything work. We encourage them, you know, to do right. But we're not like going, okay, folks like, you know, we got 12 hours here and are we going under? How's that make you feel? You know. So he said, we wanted to do this. And she says, well, let me call my mom, you know. So she calls me and she says, so and so wants to charter a plane. I said, well, you know, make sure you choose your words wisely. I said, tell him that we appreciate it, but really at this time we just think it'd just be better to drive. I didn't want to say, I didn't want to say anything at all because I don't want them to know the situation or anything like that. And so, I mean, because, you know, people knew that people had lost their jobs or whatever, but you know, we didn't really announce, you know, hey, we need this money, we need that money. We didn't do that. And don't get me wrong, it's not, it's not wrong to. Sometimes when God says, no, you tell them, this is their church, we need to catch up on this. And we've done that before, but during this, this is how God instructed me to do it. So I said, tell them, you know, we appreciate it, but really, you know, it's just gonna be easier for us this time just to drive. It's only a three day meeting. We'll go and come back, we'll be good. So she told him and he said, oh, okay. Well, then he calls back and he says, you know what? Since I Was gonna put that money out anyway. How much is it gonna cost for the whole trip? You know, room, gas, everything. Give me a figure, sister, and I'll come and bring you a check. So he calls me back, I go, give him a figure, sister. Of course, he had no clue that we didn't have any money to go. So he gives us the money. And this is what's so hilarious. We're driving down, you know, and you're like. I mean, the pressure's on, folks. We're under the heat of it. We get to the hotel room, and my daughter forgets her garment bag with her clothes in it. So now, okay, we have to add something else onto the mountain of debt that we're carrying. Of course, I didn't do that because she's doing the books, and she knows how you know the situation, so you give her some slack. So we go down there, but we're trying to get into the room, and we do not have a credit card that will let us in, and they will not take cash. So we go, okay, we're here. We're here with the money to get in. So the kind of. The manager, she knew us. We had come all the time. She knew us. And so, you know, my daughter said, you know, really, we wanted to do it this way. She says, well, okay, here's what I'll do. You know, I'll charge you for one night, and then you can pay. And so she worked it out somehow that you could bypass that system, because it would have been taken too long to put it on something and then have it cleared to do all that. Within 30 days, that whole thing was turned around. Every debt was paid. We paid off the airplane, everything. We had money in the bank. It was the most tremendous miracle that we had ever had. And I said to my daughter, when it happened, just think, if we had not gone down in September, what would that have done to the miracle that was already in play? We had been standing, believing God. God told us what to say, and we were at it. But here, right at the very end of that thing, the enemy tried to make us believe. We had no movement. No movement. And I mean, literally, I made that decision. I said, we're just going to stay with the people. But when I went to bed, it just did not set well in my spirit. And I knew I had made the wrong decision. And you know what? When you make a wrong decision, you make a right decision. So I just said, lord, I repent. I have made it a practice not to let finances dictate to me where I should or should not be. And I'm not going to start now. Father, forgive me. We're going to go. And you know what? He funded it. He funded the whole trip. And then within 30 days, I mean, 30 days, we had everything paid off. And we had money in the bank that took us all through that, and that lasted for several years. And we had money coming in to take care of that so that, you know, it made up the difference of what was not coming in. But I'll never forget that right before that great victory, he tried to make us believe that we didn't have a faith move left. You better understand this. Your faith movement is so important, and I'm so glad for the witness of the spirit that that did not let us draw back, even though we were tempted to. I said, you know, how what it would have been like that just 30 days away, this whole scene was going to change drastically, and we would have been giving up the last hour. But don't you know, that's the pattern of the enemy? So what we have to remember and what I'm trying to get you to see is that when you're going after the plan of God, when you're going after the will of God, the devil's always going to try to make you think that you don't have a move. He's going to try to make you think that you're boxed into a corner. Don't believe him. Have the conviction that God is in what you are doing. And God is able to. He is able to put it over. That's the one thing that we heard from Dr. Dufresne over and over and over. When he started coming to our church, he would say, if God has authored for you to do this, he's going to give you every supply that you need. And, you know, we needed to hear him say that over and over and over. He said, you know what pastors need? They need buildings. That's their equipment. And God doesn't hire you and not give you the equipment that you need. So he told us all the time. And, you know, we were in the middle of all that building thing, so we were like going, yes, yes, God's gonna do it. Why? Because this is our equipment. This is what we need to fulfill the plan of God. And you know what we're reminding ourselves, this next building is the equipment that we need to fulfill the plan of God, what he's going to do in that building. And so that's what Pastor Nancy told us to do. Stir yourselves up on what God's already done so that you won't have room to doubt that he won't do it again. But remember, in the process, in the process of moving forward, the enemy's always going to make you feel like you don't have a move. Every account in here is about their movement based on what God said. Faith. The life of faith. Is our movement based on what God said. Don't let the devil back you in the corner and make you believe that you don't have a move left, you don't have a faith act left. You know what? Sometimes it might. You know, you may be in a place, even financially, where you're believing God and the enemy's putting pressure on your finances or whatever. Sometimes a faith act is a dance. Sometimes a faith act is a shout. There are faith acts, but we have to make sure that we're making that movement. Declaring boldly that there's no way that the enemy has room to stop us. Because the more. The greater that conviction on the inside, the more we're able to see the things that these others have already seen. The movement of God. The Dr. Sumralls, the Brother Hagins, all of these generals. Dr. Dufresne. I tell you so many times, this has come back to me. When Dr. Dufresne said, God told me to build this building, I went everywhere and nobody wanted to touch me, he said. But I knew I had to do it anyway. And finally there was a way. What a wonderful testimony that there's a building here that people said you didn't have enough to do. You didn't have enough to do it. That was the account. But it's here. Why? Because he never stopped moving. He never stopped moving. He just kept moving forward. If one door wouldn't give him the answer, he went to the next door. And that door didn't give him the answer. He went to the next door and the next door and the next door. Why? Because he was thoroughly convinced that this was the will of God. And I appreciate that, because I'll tell you what, I have thought on that many times. Right now, I have to be thoroughly convinced that this is the will of God. Because one day we'll be standing in our building just like this one. Why? Because when the enemy tried to tell us that there was no movement, we had someone in front of us that taught us, you just keep moving. Just keep moving. You just keep moving. And when you keep moving, the power will show up to that. Amen. Amen. God bless you. Thank you. We trust you've enjoyed this message. Visit us at defrainministries.org to learn of our upcoming meetings, share your testimony, become a partner or visit our online store. This program has been made possible by the friends and partners of Defray Ministries.