Episode Overview

Podcast: Dufresne Ministries Podcast
Episode: The Spirit Of Seeing & Knowing, Part Two | Nancy Dufresne | Campmeeting 2019
Date: June 14, 2019
Speaker: Pastor Nancy Dufresne
Location: World Harvest Church, Murrieta, CA

Main Theme:
Pastor Nancy Dufresne teaches on the operation and necessity of the "Spirit of Seeing and Knowing"—a term used to describe the gifts of the Word of Wisdom and the Word of Knowledge as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12. She emphasizes that these manifestations of the Holy Spirit are given for the profit, safety, and increase of all believers and that both ministers and congregants must cultivate sensitivity to the Spirit for personal and corporate health, guidance, protection, and growth.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Gifts of the Spirit – Their Purpose and Profit (00:40–08:30)

• 1 Corinthians 12: Pastor Nancy explains the nine gifts and their division into three categories:

  • Power Gifts (do something): Gifts of Healing, Working of Miracles, Gift of Faith
  • Revelation Gifts (reveal something): Word of Wisdom (future), Word of Knowledge (past/present), Discerning of Spirits
  • Utterance Gifts (say something): Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues, Prophecy

• Profit Principle:
  “There is profit when the Holy Spirit is allowed to manifest and every man who will cooperate with that manifestation will profit.” (00:49)

• Universal Application:
  These gifts are not exclusive to ministers; every believer can experience them "as the Spirit wills and as it's needed.” (06:30)

• Sensitivity via Tongues:
  “The more we pray in other tongues, the more sensitive our spirits become.” (08:10)

2. The Spirit of Seeing and Knowing – Biblical Examples and Explanation (08:30–21:40)

• Definition:
  The "Spirit of Seeing and Knowing" refers mainly to the operation of the Word of Wisdom and Word of Knowledge through the Holy Spirit.

• Bible Examples:

  • Elisha and the King of Syria (2 Kings 6) (09:40)

    • Elisha repeatedly reveals enemy battle plans by the Spirit, saving Israel:
      “The spirit of seeing and knowing rescued a nation. Now, if it'll rescue a nation, won't it rescue your marriage? Won't it rescue your children?” (13:30)

  • Elijah Discouraged (1 Kings 19) (15:00)

    • God reveals there are 7,000 faithful, correcting and encouraging Elijah’s flawed perception.
    • “When you have the spirit of seeing and knowing, it will encourage you at a time when you feel like quitting and when circumstances threaten you.” (16:20)

  • Gehazi Exposed (17:00)

    • A Word of Knowledge reveals Gehazi’s hypocrisy even after earlier faithfulness.

3. Practical and Personal Applications (21:40–37:00)

• For Ministers and Parents:

  • God may reveal danger regarding people close to you—not to gossip, but to protect.
  • “If God warns you about somebody, that's not for you to go out and warn everybody in the church about them... You’ll get in trouble with God.” (19:50)

• How the Spirit Privately and Publicly Deals with Sin (Exposing to Restore):

  • Testimony: God reveals a man’s secret adultery in a hotel through Pastor Nancy, aiming to bring him to repentance, not shame (21:30).
  • Principle: Public exposure is a last resort after private nudges have been ignored.

• Handling Confrontation and Discipline:

  • Stories of dealing with perversion or destructive behavior in church—always aiming for restoration, but prioritizing the health of the entire body and protecting the congregation.
  • “I pastor on the Word, not based on personality. Do I confront? Yes, because I don’t pastor by my personality. My personality colors my pastorate... but it’s not leading me.” (31:18)
  • Protection protocol: Ushers assigned to potentially dangerous newcomers; immediate removal if an “alarm” from the Spirit occurs (34:30).

4. Stewardship, Church Health, and the Pastor’s Authority (37:00–50:00)

• Protecting the Flock:

  • Skimming off what the Spirit brings to light, like removing dangerous or divisive people.
  • Business or self-promotion in church actively discouraged:
    “Don’t you dare come in here and put a business card on the Jesus…” (36:50)

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Mercy is not permissive toward wrongdoing. Are you kidding me?” (34:11)
  • “Don’t confuse love with permissiveness. Love is not permissive toward wrongdoing.” (45:30)

• Gifts of the Spirit and Pastoral Responsibility:

  • The gifts help the pastor protect and shepherd, but:
    “It’s not my job to get in your business and fix your business. That’s what the Holy Ghost is for.” (39:30)

• Advice to Parents:

  • Rely on the Holy Ghost instead of wishful thinking about children’s innocence.
    “He loves your children more than you do.” (41:30)

• Example: William Branham’s Ministry:

  • Dr. Lester Sumrall’s story about William Branham’s revelatory gift leading to repentance—or fear—among seekers (42:00).
  • “You talk about a reverence that will come back in the church when that spirit of the world has gotten in.” (45:16)

5. Love, Truth, and Church Discipline (50:00–54:45)

• God’s Love is Not Permissive:

  • “If you love someone, you won’t let them keep going down the wrong road… God is love. And love refused to permit wrongdoing to remain in His society.” (46:25)

• Restoration is Always the Aim:

  • Sinners and bound people are welcomed to experience genuine freedom, but play-acting or exploiting the congregation will not be tolerated.

6. The Call to Hunger and Cooperation with the Spirit (54:45–End)

• Pastoral Call to Action:

  • “We need to start hungering for the gifts of the Spirit in our lives, in our churches.” (47:50)
  • The gifts enable believers and churches to fulfill their divine destiny.

• Attitude toward Correction:

  • “Hunger never gets offended at any food put on the plate.” (49:58)
  • Appreciate needed correction and leadership by the Spirit for safety and growth.

• Closing Prayer and Encouragement:

  • “We cooperate. We hunger for what you said to the prophet of God—that greater manifestation of the spirit of seeing and knowing. We say, Father, we’re hungry for it. We’re hungry for it.” (54:15)

• Song:

  • The congregation sings “We’re Stepping In, We’re Stepping Out,” affirming their willingness to follow the Spirit’s direction in every aspect of church life and beyond. (55:11-59:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Gifts of the Spirit’s Utility:
  “Not by might, not by power, but by the Spirit. But when the Spirit says something, you have to have the boldness to follow him in what he says. He’s always right.” (39:20)

• On Parental Discernment:
  “Your children ain’t perfect. And when you start thinking they are, you’re going to get duped. You better listen to the Holy Ghost.” (41:36)

• On True Spiritual Love:
  “Don’t you dare call the negligence to follow the Holy Ghost mercy. Mercy is not permissive towards wrongdoing.” (34:15)
  “If you love someone, you won’t let them keep going down the wrong road.” (46:43)

• On Church Discipline:
  “I am jealous for the plan of God. I am jealous for what God is doing… I’m not handing the vision of this church off to somebody who is living unconsecrated.” (32:43)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Gifts Overview: 00:00–08:30
• Seeing & Knowing in Scripture: 08:30–17:00
• Application – Private/Public Exposure: 17:00–28:00
• Pastoral Confrontation & Church Protection: 28:00–38:00
• Examples of Removing Disruptors: 34:30–37:56
• On Church Discipline & Mercy: 37:56–46:25
• William Branham Story: 42:00–44:58
• Love Is Not Permissiveness: 45:30–46:50
• Call to Hunger for the Spirit: 47:50–50:30
• Attitude on Correction, Safety: 48:30–51:00
• Closing Prayer & Song: 54:45–59:50

Final Takeaways

• The Spirit of Seeing and Knowing is essential not just for ministers but for all believers—both for supernatural direction and for the protection of personal lives and the church.
• A healthy church requires the courage to discern, confront, and heal, not just to "let love cover" at the expense of spiritual and corporate safety.
• Seeking and yielding to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, especially Word of Wisdom and Knowledge, is a prerequisite for fulfilling God's plan and maintaining a pure, effective church body.

Closing encouragement from Pastor Nancy Dufresne:
“We cooperate. We hunger for… greater manifestation of the spirit of seeing and knowing. We say, Father, we’re hungry for it. It is a rescue to our lives—it’s a help, it’s complete profit. We only increase from it.” (54:20)

For listeners and leaders alike, this episode imparts both practical wisdom and spiritual urgency to pursue, recognize, and cooperate with the Holy Spirit for a life and ministry marked by clarity, purity, and God’s power.