A (3:42)

Yeah, no, I mean real recognized, real. And that's why my husband loves you so much too, because you are just who you are. But do you think that, you know, the growth and evolving is what has kept you in the game as long as you've been.

B (3:56)

Absolutely.

A (3:56)

Like, sincerely, if you. I. I went through my party stages too, back in the day. Hold on. Here's my husband. We have to take this call. We have to take this. Okay, I love you. Bye.

B (4:07)

Bye.

A (4:09)

Okay, bye.

B (4:10)

Yeah, I watched, I watched his, his Rogan podcast and he was talking about his whole journey and I was, I was so impressed. Yeah, I just. It's so awesome to see that, just that miraculous change in him. And, you know, I'll be straight, like, he was one of the guys, I was like, is he going to make it through?

A (4:29)

Worried about why? If I was worried about him, even,

B (4:33)

like Marilyn Manson for a while, when I heard, like, he had, like, switched things up and he was another one of those guys, I was like, is he going to make it out? You know, and it's just so cool to, like, see that transformation in people. You know, I've experienced that in my own life and I get, I get the struggle. I get that just feeling like you're just stuck in this, like this, this prison inside of ourselves. And I think for me, I mean, mine was like drinking, you know, and it was, it, it. It evolved into the pills and, and some of that, but I just, it was. I just felt enslaved, like, truly in bondage to it. And so, you know, to see people go through that transformation, it's so powerful. And it's like what we can do with our lives once we, like, shed the. That old shell of ourselves. It's like, I mean, that's another reason why I'm still in the game. It's like the sky's the limit. It's like it gives me. It gave me another shot at life. It gave me, you know, like a renewed, like, passion, sense of purpose. Yeah, just. It just gave me so much. It helped me, like, restore relationships, you know, rebuild relationships, rebuild a relationship with myself, you know? You know, like looking in the mirror and like, just for years just going, fuck you, you know, and that, like just that raw feeling of like just kind of self hate and to just not be in that place anymore, it's like, gosh, freedom.

A (6:00)

It's amazing.

B (6:01)

Yeah, it is.

A (6:01)

I saw a viral clip of you actually talking about your faith and about how you got saved, and it actually made me tear up because, you know, I'm on my own journey with God too, and so is my husband. And just seeing somebody who has an ear on the youth the way that you do, because, I mean, you can sit behind a pulpit and preach all day long, but you have one hit song and that you're gonna read, reach millions and millions of people who need to hear that. And so to hear that coming from you standing on the stage, like, that's. That was really awesome.

B (6:35)

I tell you this, like, my faith walk has been. It's been a. Like a wrestling match, you know, and it was. It started with my sobriety. I started going to meetings and going to recovery recovery houses and stuff like that. And you know, they're like, yo, you need to find. Find God or a God, a God of your understanding. And it was a journey for me for years. And I'll tell you, like, the, the two things, like the, the two things I never wanted to be in my life was sober and a Christian, right? And like, look, and here I am now, you know what I'm saying? Like, follower, a sober guy. And my. But it was a rocky path, you know, to find that and a lot of failure and a lot of questioning and, you know, turning my will over to God and following and then taking it all back and then living my way. And then, you know, repeatedly finding myself, like, just in that deep, dark hole. And, you know, when I finally put the bottle down and really, like, it was that, like that foxhole prayer, you know, where I'm just like, God, like, do you just hear me? Can you hear me? Like, I. I need a miraculous change. I need something like, beyond what I can do. Because I kept trying to, like, control the change in my life and it just. The walls fell, you know, And I had a fellow that I was real close with that kind of walked my faith journey out with me. And, you know, I was like, very skeptical and very, like, these church people are weird, you know, and. And then when I saw, like, this faith walk, like, alive in front of me and somebody, like, talking the talk and walking the walk, and I saw the transformation, it became alive to me. And that it became. I was less fearful of. All right, I'll. I'll try to believe, you know. And then it became like, I'm a. I'm a full blown believer now. It's like I'm doing a Bible study with a buddy of mine. And like, it's like, it is. It's tripping me out because it's like I'm starting to experience, like, different levels of. Of freedom, of bondage, of self and like, things that maybe I once thought were acceptable in my life. Now I'm like, ah, man, that ain't serving you, man. It's not like it's not working for you anymore. It's like it's hindering your growth, it's messing up relationships. This is a little secret that you're keeping back tucked away over here, you know what I mean? And like, the more that I, like, purge these things and turn it over and just walk in the light, it's just, I. I feel like it's the way, it's the path, you know, and. Because I've tried the other way, you know what I mean? And it's like, you know, the whole rock and roll. And I was, I was kind of very. I didn't want to share it with people because I felt that it wasn't edgy and it wasn't rock and roll. And I'm like, again, like, I'm not here to prove, like, that I'm like, edgy and rock and roll.

A (9:30)

Like, I. I think you've already proven that.

B (9:32)

Yeah, I done lived it and I saw where it, like, was taking me and I'm like. And then you. I watched the VH1 specials. Like, for instance, like, bands like, say, Aerosmith. Right? And it's just like, you hear this, like, downward spiral and this just wreckage and the family's falling apart. And I'm like, I ain't trying. I'm trying to, like, break that chain.

A (9:52)

Yeah.

B (9:52)

You know what I mean? Like, I'm here trying to break that chain. I ain't trying to, like, repeat. Because the Shadix family, like, where I'm from, my people, like, come from a long line of. Of alcoholics, cheaters, broken people, murderers, that type of lineage. And so I'm like, I'm not. That's not. That's not who I am. That's not, like, why I'm here. It's not. That's not me.

A (10:15)

You know, Jacoby, that's beautiful. And I feel like that's what people need to hear, especially from somebody like you. And I'm so proud of you.

B (10:22)

Thank you.

A (10:23)

Because, say what you just said, all of that, like. And I want to clip that, because it was just so beautiful, is just. You're bringing people to Faith and letting them know that it's cool.

B (10:33)

Yeah.

A (10:33)

You know, we're making God cool again.

B (10:35)

Well, even, like, you know, watching you and Jelly at Yalls. Your life and the arc of you guys from afar, it's like, I see the same in you guys. And it's like, Jelly, you know, when he's talking about God on stage, like, I love that. That. That. That inspires me. It makes me go, okay. It's. I can't get up here and talk about this. And, you know, the more and more I open up about it, the more and more I realize, like, I'm not in this rock and roll family. And in this rock and roll world, like, there's more believers than I realized. You know, I was like. I was out on a. What was it? We did Whiskey Jam the other night.

A (11:07)

Yeah. Congratulations on that.

B (11:08)

It was dope. It was dope.

A (11:10)

And the viral clips of you singing, I was like, go, Jacoby.

B (11:13)

It was cool as a dream, you know, so growing up, Johnny Cash fan, like, to be able to step, you know, on Broadway and know that I'm a go perform in a. In a venue that, you know, maybe he had once walked through or, you know, had a drink in or whatnot, like, just to know that, like, this is his town and to get up in there and play a song. Stripped down. It was just a vibe.

A (11:34)

We need to get you in the ryman. We need to get you to do a stripped down acoustic show and Ryman, because I know. I'm telling them right now, call your people. We're rooting for you. If anybody can make it happen, it's my husband for sure.

B (11:46)

But, yeah, I. I really enjoyed it. We premiered a brand new song. We got this song called Wake Up Calling. It's about to drop in a couple days. And this one is, like. I'd say it's like, somewhere in between, like, Scars, Papa Roach and Leave a Light on Paparoach. And so we started the song on an acoustic guitar, built it from there, and then built it into this really emotive rock track and then did the. The acoustic jam and just stripped it back down to the purest form. I. As I get older and the more we write, I love that experience of just stripping the track down and just starting from the. You know, just the nuts and bolts of acoustic guitar and a vocal. And if you could build it from there, I feel like there's something special.

A (12:31)

It's just so personal, too.

B (12:33)

Yeah.

A (12:33)

Like, whenever you can connect with your audience with just a guitar, your voice and emotion.

B (12:38)

I wish I could play guitar too, man. I'm terrible. I'm like, yeah, I got dicks for fingers.

A (12:42)

My husband tries to pretend that he can play guitar, and I'm like, you know, one song, and it's his song with mgk. Like, he taught himself. He literally taught himself how to play that song, and it's the cutest thing. Yeah.

B (12:52)

Good on him.

A (12:53)

So let's circle back and just talk a little bit about your childhood, because I. I truly believe that people's childhoods influence their decisions later on in life. And you grew up in California. Your parents split when you were younger. Can we go on that journey of where so much hurt and so much of your pain had come from? Because you write about it in your lyrics, but I don't really hear you talk about it.

B (13:18)

Yeah. So my father, Richard. Richard Kent Shadix, he was a Vietnam veteran. He grew. He's like a. I think the ninth child in his family. And he was just dealt with a pretty raw set of cards. He was drafted to Vietnam, went to Vietnam, fought a war he didn't believe in, just trauma on trauma, on trauma. And my mom, you know, she's like, just a sweet girl. Born in Michigan, came out to California, fell in love with this wild hippie. And when my dad came back from Nam, he was wanting to be a recluse, you know, so he was like, I'm gonna go live in the high country. My parents, you Know, were really poor. But I think in the 70s it was like being poor was, you know, it's not such a big thing when you're like, living that hippie lifestyle. They were living in a van, you know, it's like, I, I, I've lived in some very interesting places as a child. First, I mean, the first year was in a van. Next one was in somebody's screened in laundry porch, you know, and so not necessarily homeless, but we didn't have a house of our own.

A (14:33)

You guys were having gypsies?

B (14:34)

Yeah, essentially.

A (14:35)

Yeah.

B (14:35)

And then we lived, we lived in a teepee for a year. Like, no lie.

A (14:40)

How old were you?

B (14:41)

This is, I was probably like two and a half, three years old. Wow. We did that. My dad then became a logger for a while and he was all the while, like, you know, partying and raging and disappearing for a couple of weeks here and there. And yeah, we lived in a tent for a while when he was logging. And then finally my mom kind of had enough and she was just like, we need to like, live in a home. Like, we need to stop being gypsies. And so we finally settled in this place called Nipaniwassee, which is like Norcal, kind of by a place Awani. Up in, you know, where Yosemite is?

A (15:18)

Yeah, a little bit. Is it up by like Central California?

B (15:21)

No, Central California hills.

A (15:23)

Okay.

B (15:23)

You know, just kind of tucked away from society. And so my dad was a recluse and had his own problems and his struggles and I just, I idolized him. I thought he was just the salt of the earth because, you know, I mean, he loved me. He loved me to death. He really did, but he just didn't know how to be an honest family man. And when he left and it just, it broke me. It just totally broke me. And it wasn't that he was ever abusive towards me at all. It just left this, like, hole in my heart, you know.

A (15:56)

And how old were you?

B (15:57)

And I was at this time, I was probably like six or, no, seven or eight actually. When they finally split, it was a back and forth and back and forth. He'd come and go, and I just always was like, where's dad? You know, and he was always absent and, and once they finally split, he just disappeared from my life. And that was like, tr. That was traumatic for me just because it was like he was my hero.

A (16:19)

That's abandonment.

B (16:20)

Yeah. Oh, it was her. It sucked into anybody that's gone through that. It's just, it's terrible. It's just It's. And so I vowed on myself. I didn't want to, you know, repeat that cycle. And so I think that that was the beginning of this, like, this trauma in my life that I didn't really know how to heal from. And, you know, my mom started dating, and she met this guy who eventually became my stepdad, and I was a horrific stepson in the beginning. I was. I remember we were celebrating his birthday this one time, and my mom got the cake, and they're singing Happy Birthday, and I, like, threw the cake on the floor, you know, like, oh, yeah, I was. I was. You know, I look back on it and kind of like, okay, like, it's not so bad. But then I just was that abandonment, right? And I think that I. I didn't fully recover from that until I was probably in my mid-20s, I think, when I finally sought him out and, you know, had a deep conversation with him about who he was and why he left and really never turned back. And it's. You know, what's so wild. Like, once I got to know him a little bit, it was. You know, I spent a couple days with him, and we got deep. I just remember sitting on this hilltop, and he was telling me the story of his life, and I just. I just felt sorry for him, you know, I just. When I. When I found out, like, what he had been through and who he was, and I just asked him straight up, I'm like, what the. Like, why did you, like, never try to, like, search me out? And he's like, I thought. I just thought that you would. You just hated me. I thought you were. You would just reject me. And I'm like, oh, quite the opposite. Like, I just wanted to, like, know who you were, you know? And that was like, I was a. That was a. That was a tough but healing moment, you know? And in the process of being a young kid and having this stepdad that. That loved me, I never really, like, allowed that love to. I never knew how to accept that love. I knew he did.

A (18:33)

You didn't want to get hurt again.

B (18:35)

Yeah. And, yeah, I think that's what it was. And my mom is just the salt of the earth. An amazing, loving, compassionate woman that just taught me so much about life. And, you know, she taught me empathy, she taught me kindness. She supported my creativity. And so I think my mom, you know, as. As she remarried, she wanted to provide, like, a stable environment for me to grow up in. And my stepdad, now, it's like, he's my guy. Like, Bill Roach is The man.

A (19:10)

Bill. My dad's name is Bill.

B (19:11)

Okay, cool. All right. Shout out to Bill.

A (19:13)

We love the Bills.

B (19:14)

That's right. And you know, he's, he was just, he taught me, like, consistency, but I was, I'm just so much different than him. I had this reckless. I had this reckless spirit and this free spirit and this creativity in me that just needed to, like, come out and, you know, my, he provided this place that was safe, but I always just had this, like, hole in me, and I didn't know how to, to really come to terms with it until I had a bit of reconciliation with my father and understood who he was and why he made the decisions he made, you know, and my mom always warned me. She's like, you're. You are. Like, she would point things out in me that reminded her of my father, good and bad.

A (20:08)

Right.

B (20:08)

And she was always like, you know, you better be careful because, like, you know, this drinking thing, like your dad was. You had a bad problem with it, you know, And I think I was

A (20:17)

trying to guide you.

B (20:18)

Yeah, she was trying to, like, warn me, like, hey. And I just, I'm that type of knucklehead. Like, I got. I gotta go hit the wall at 100 miles an hour myself to, to really like, to learn.

A (20:29)

When did you start drinking?

B (20:32)

I. I started, I think. Well, my mom said when I was young, they had these raging parties and I would, like, go around and like, sip the bottoms of the drinks.

A (20:39)

But that's the same thing at my parents parties.

B (20:41)

Yeah. I was like, I was just that young kid, you know, just wanting to, you know, get out, get outside of myself and not feel like myself, I think. But it wasn't until I was. I think it was like 14 that

A (20:55)

I, I think that's when everybody starts.

B (20:57)

Yeah.

A (20:58)

Experimenting with alcohol.

B (20:59)

And my first experiment with her. Horrific, Horrifically wrong. You know, it's like, you tell.

A (21:05)

We would like to hear.

B (21:06)

Oh, gosh. So, well, one of them was the, the first time I got caught, my parents had vodka, and they kept it in the freezer, and I kept drinking it. And then this wasn't the bad one, but I kept drinking it, then refilling it with water.

A (21:19)

Oh, gosh.

B (21:20)

So then, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like, you eventually drink so much it started to freeze, right? My parents are like, kobe, like, what are you doing? I'm like, what do you mean? That's not me. Not me, you know? Well, then I was like, I got that taste for it because I, I, it made me like, had this kind of sense of ease and comfort. And I was. My stepdad had taught me about hard work, right? So I started working. I had my own business. It was jack of all trades. I had this little flyer, and it was like, I. I have a wheelbarrow. I will travel. I'll pick weeds. I'll mow the lawn. I'll babysit. I'm.

A (21:54)

So you've always been a hustler?

B (21:56)

Yeah, totally. 100 and so that was like 14 years old. And I had my business. I went and made some money. And my friend William Linne was like, dude, it's my birthday. I'm like, dude, I got like 3:30 bucks, dude, let's get somebody get some vodka for us. And the homie went, this guy I was friends with, he was like, over 21. He went and bought me this bottle of vodka. I went to my friend's house and we drank this thing to the bottom. And he. He was like, there was this girl around the corner from his house. He wanted to profess his love to her because, you know, you make all the right decisions when you're hammered and 14. Yeah, we crawled. We crawled over there, and we were. I was puking in the road, you know, blacked out. He's trying to confess his love. They call the cops. We get detained. And, yeah, the next day was like, I, you know, walk ashamed. Back. Back home. My parents, you know, were like, what are you doing? Like, And I'm like, I don't know. I just wanted to party. And that was, like, kind of the beginning for me. And I. I really started to, like, you know, take my sips when I could and, you know, stand out in front of the grocery store. And when I saw somebody 21 on older, I'm like, hey, man, you go. You pick me up a couple 40s, you know, and I feel like kids

A (23:05)

these days will never know those.

B (23:07)

Oh, dude, I was that, dude. We did beer.

A (23:09)

We did it, too. Oh, the beer runs, dude.

B (23:11)

They feel alive. They go, yeah, dude, I'm going to. I'm like, I'd be in my little Red Ranger on the front, and Toba, my bass player, run in there, grab. Grab a case of beer. Do we go out to the cuts, the barn, you know, do the bonfire and the drinking and the whole deal. And, you know, eventually, you know, started smoking. And then I remember I got my wisdom teeth pulled, and they gave me a bottle of Vicodin. That's when I discovered Vicodin.

A (23:33)

Me too. It's in my book that I'm about to drop. I lit. I call it getting percolated.

B (23:38)

I was twerk elated, man.

A (23:40)

I did not take as prescribed at all. But the first time you take that pill and it gives you that relief that you've never had before. That's what gets you hooked and. But then you'd never get that feeling again. Yep, it's. It's. You get it one time, it's euphoric, and then you. You chase that high for the rest of your.

B (23:58)

It's a bottomless pit addiction.

A (24:00)

It is.

B (24:01)

I mean, yeah, but, you know, I had to touch that flame. That was like the thing. And all around this time, you know, I'm. I'm in high school, right.

A (24:10)

So when does music enter? Have you always been musical? Where does the musical chops come from?

B (24:18)

So music is in the family. My grandmother was a singer. Her father was in the big bands, like in the 1930s and stuff like that. So he was in the pit orchestra for the Marx Brothers, and they did a lot of traveling, and he played piano and clarinet, saxophone, you name it, and did that life. And then my grandma sang in, like, the chorus lines and stuff like that. My mom wasn't really musically inclined, but had a love for a music. And I just grew up loving music. Like, it was just. I fell in love with. I remember Poison was like one of the first bands.

A (24:48)

Hell, yeah.

B (24:49)

These guys are sick. Nothing but a good time.

A (24:51)

I love all the hair bands. I still love dudes in makeup.

B (24:54)

Oh, yeah.

A (24:54)

Like, it is my. I love it.

B (24:56)

I was such a huge fan. And yeah, shout out to Brett Michaels, dude, you're awesome. Dude, you're the real deal. But, yeah, discovered music and just. I was the kid with the wiffle ball bat in the front yard playing air guitar and setting up the trash cans upside down in the garage, you know, playing with fire, beating on drums, putting on my own pyro in the garage, like, doing. You know, just like a goofball. And I just had this love for music. And then when I finally got in high school and met my OG drummer, Dave Buckner, we were playing football in high school together. And I was a drummer. He was a drummer. And we were like, dude, let's. Let's. Let's hook up and, like, put our drum sets together to make, like, a real big drum set.

A (25:35)

So you do play drums?

B (25:37)

Yes, that was my first instrument. I grew up playing clarinet. I played in the. I'm like a band geek. Yeah. And so I played the viol.

A (25:44)

Sorry, I played the viola. I was in band or No, I was an orchestra.

B (25:48)

I wasn't allowed to do bad geeks.

A (25:50)

I wasn't allowed to be in band. I was an orchestra, though.

B (25:52)

Yeah, that's cool, though. That's cool. That's. What's up. So, yeah, I went to band camp. Did that whole. Did that whole deal. That was awesome. The band kids were wild.

A (26:00)

Yeah.

B (26:00)

Honestly, like, we were wild. And I did some partying with the school band as well. At band camp, straight up.

A (26:07)

Was it like American Pie?

B (26:08)

Straight. For real? For real. Um, but yeah, band kids, orchestra kids, theater kids. We were like the dlo. Crazy wild ones. But I also played school sports, and that's where I met Dave, the drummer. And so we put our drum sets together, and he turned out to be a way better drummer than I did. Than I was. And so I was like, all right, well, dude, I want to play. Let's make music. And so I. I love Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I just thought he was the coolest. And so I was like, well, I'll buy a bass. And so bought a bass guitar. And I wasn't so good at bass. And I was. At this time, I was working at this place called Fresh Choice. And this is right when I, I. I met my wife. Well, my. Eventually would become my wife.

A (26:55)

Yeah.

B (26:55)

And I met her around this time, and I'm experimenting with music, and I'm starting to like, who's this girl? What's up with this right here? So then I'm at work one night, and I come out and all the windows are busted out of my truck. And I'm like, what the. Oh, dude. I'm like, look, go in the back of the truck. And my bass is gone. And I'm like, I can't. I can't be a. I'm not the drummer because he's way better than me. And now my bassist, Storm, straight broke. I'm living on my own at this time because I moved out of my house when I was, like, 17. You know that typical story of, like, if you don't want to live by our rules, you got to live on your own. And I'm like, well, good thing you taught me the hard work ethic, because I could just go rent a room from the homie. I'm out.

A (27:38)

Yeah. You're like, I got this. I know everything.

B (27:40)

Yeah. And I had a little side hustle, you know, selling Mexican brown weed at the time, too, so I had a little extra money on the side, so I was like, cool, I could pay my rent. Well, I got my Bass stolen. And I was like, fuck. Like, I want to play music. And Dave Buckner was just like, dude, be a singer. It's free. And I was just like, all right, I'm gonna be a singer.

A (28:00)

I love the logic. That's so real, though. Like, how deep? And so. Just easy.

B (28:06)

Yes. And that's what I did. I just grabbed a mic and started screaming on the mic in the garage.

A (28:10)

Did you ever know that you could sing? Sorry.

B (28:13)

I was God awful singer when I first started. I wasn't one of those kids. It was like the kid in the back of the room that was kind of gifted and like could sing and carry a tune. Yeah, no, dude, I was just the. I was the kid that was like. I was friends with the stoners, the freaks, the geeks, the jocks, the popular kids. Yeah, I was kind of like friends with everybody. And so I was the guy that was like the ringleader in a way. And, like, I knew how to, like, you know, rally the people. And so I was voted most unique in my class. I guess that's like the most popular weird guy, I guess. I don't know.

A (28:46)

It's a compliment, though. It's a compliment.

B (28:47)

Hey, I'll take it. But yeah, so I guess being a singer kind of felt like it was natural. I grew up playing a clarinet, so I understood, like, breath control and stuff like that. And so I got a mic in my hand and I was. It was just off to the races.

A (29:00)

Game over.

B (29:00)

Yeah, straight up. And I was like, I couldn't carry a tune, but I wanted to rap and I wanted to scream.

A (29:06)

It's so hard to believe that you couldn't carry a tune. Especially listening to you now, because I think that you're one of the last of a dying breed. Like one of the best rock front people. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a. I am a huge music fan. My dad was a musician, so I grew up in the industry too. And I just. You have just this presence. I've seen you perform, you know, and it's the way you command, the way you sing. Like, I just find that hard to believe that you didn't have that to start with.

B (29:34)

If you listen to some of the early recordings, you'd be like,

A (29:39)

I'm gonna go back and listen.

B (29:40)

Don't even do it. It's honestly, like, I've made all my creative mistakes in Papa Roach because P. Roach is like, Paparach is my first band. Like, I didn't start like 20 different bands and go, you Know this, that and the third. It was like.

A (29:56)

I read that you guys were originally called Kobe Dick, though.

B (29:58)

Well, I used to be called Kobe Dick. That's what they used to call me back in the day. I. So that name came from my wife had. Yeah. We were married at this. At this point. We were married. She was the one with the good credit.

A (30:12)

Yeah.

B (30:13)

And the band, we all had terrible

A (30:14)

credit and we needed shout out to wifey.

B (30:17)

Yeah, dude, for real. Thank you, babe.

A (30:19)

Yeah, and she's a real one, dude. She is 30 years and we're going to talk about her later. But.

B (30:25)

And so she co signed for us to get this van and we called it Moby Dick. And. And all the boys called me Kobe. Right. And I was like, it just stuck. They were like, I'm like, oh yeah, I'm Kobe Dick driving Moby Dick, dude. This idea, you know, and it just kind of stuck. And so. Yeah, man, that was my. That was my AKA back in the day. I was a big Wu Tang fan too. So it was like Wu Tang had all these like, aliases.

A (30:47)

Yeah.

B (30:48)

And so I thought. I thought that was cool, you know. But eventually I was like, I kept reading and like after we became popular and the band blew up, I. In like magazines, it would be like Dick says. And I'm like, like, do I want to be known as Dick my whole life? Like, I just. My. My original name, like my. My birth name, Jacoby Dakota Shadix is way cooler than Kobe.

A (31:12)

That's a rock star name.

B (31:13)

Yeah, totally.

A (31:13)

You can't have a name like that and not become a rock star.

B (31:16)

Exactly. I was like, I gotta. I gotta go back to the OG name. But yeah, I'm a little all over the place. But yeah, Kobe Dick was my name back in the day. Mr. Dick if you're nasty, Dr. Dick if you're sick.

A (31:26)

So did you rap whenever you first started or were you singing?

B (31:29)

I want. I wanted to be like a cross between. Between like Wu Tang, you know, Method. I wanted to be a cross between like Method Band and Chino from the Deftones. Those were like two of my favorite and totally like polar opposite types of artists.

A (31:44)

Right.

B (31:45)

But I just had this really like, eclectic, diverse love of music and I just. I was off to the races, you know, like once I had that mic in my hand and, you know, we started playing shows in front of people and we played all the backyard parties, you know. I mean, yeah, we play, we put on parties, we.

A (32:02)

I remember that was like, in order to get discovered back in the day, you had to put in work.

B (32:09)

Oh.

A (32:09)

Like, nowadays, you make a tick tock, go viral, and you're on the. On the charts, and it's like, you guys, like, even I did it with my husband. We had to grind.

B (32:17)

Yeah, you grind.

A (32:18)

I saw him play to shows of five people.

B (32:20)

Yep.

A (32:21)

You know, like, and. But I feel like that makes for, like, such great artists.

B (32:26)

Oh, absolutely. I think that it's like those are the moments, the proving grounds, I think, for real artists. Like, if you can thug it out through those rugged moments. Right. Where I remember, like, when you were saying, like, playing in front of five people. I remember being in Denver, Colorado, at this place called the Lion's Den, and we played in front of seven people, and two of them were the bartenders.

A (32:45)

Yeah.

B (32:45)

You know what I mean?

A (32:46)

Yeah.

B (32:46)

And it's.

A (32:47)

We've had nights like that.

B (32:50)

I remember playing in, like, Tucson, Arizona, and we showed up, and we're handing out our demo tapes, and then we start playing, and people start throwing our demo tapes back at us, like, at our faces, and I'm like, fuck you. You know, so we had. We. We. We had all those moments where it was just like. It. What got. You know, what it was. It was. What got us through those moments that were tough was the brotherhood, you know, and, like, working through those moments, being poor together and barely scraping enough money together to get enough gas to the next city and those. I think those moments, like, you guys have lived through yourselves, right? Where it's like, it just builds character.

A (33:29)

Yeah.

B (33:29)

You know, and it's like, that's the stuff.

A (33:31)

Humbling.

B (33:32)

Exactly. Very humbling. But then it also. It's like, I found so much joy. Like, as I look back at those moments, there was, like, so much joy and so much fun.

A (33:41)

Yes.

B (33:42)

In the discovery of, like, traveling to a new town, meeting new people, you know, we had a mailing list. Oh, we got 25 names on the mailing list tonight, you know, and, like, oh, we sold 30 T shirts, and we got. You know, we got 300 bucks in the band fund. Dude. We're balling, dude.

A (33:56)

Yeah.

B (33:57)

You know, it's like, we can go to IHOP tonight. You know, Like, I just. I. I look back so fondly in those moments and so grateful that we had those moments, because when the times got tough after, you know, we had our success and we kind of had an arc, and it felt like the industry was. We were done and over with. Like, those were the moments that got us through the dark times in our career after, like, big popularity, you know, we'd we'd pick each other up and dust each other off and go, like, all right, man, we got this. Like, we just keep dugging it out. Let's just keep pushing forward. And. And so it built that brotherhood. Strong.

A (34:37)

Yeah. And character.

B (34:39)

Yeah, for sure.

A (34:39)

And the trust.

B (34:40)

Mad character.

A (34:41)

Yeah, for sure. Nothing like being broken down on the side of the road and just having to hitchhike or find a ride to the nearest gas station to change a flat tire. Yeah, I get that.

B (34:50)

Moby Dick, dude. I remember where that thing died, dude. We were on our way to Vegas, dude, and we're going uphill, and it's like, overheating. It's like, you know, the thing dies on the side of the road. We got a call, like, aaa, you know, hitchhiking. We eventually got to Vegas. We were three hours late for the show. We put the show on anyways, you know, like, those are the moments.

A (35:10)

They are the moments that you. I always tell Jay, like, because we have so much going on now, and sometimes I look at him and it's just me and him, and I'm like, do you ever miss when it was just us? And, like, yeah, you know, 10 years ago when, like, none of this was around, and he's like, absolutely, like. Because it was so simple, but it was, like, so fulfilling at the same time. Even though we were struggling like a mofo.

B (35:34)

Yep.

A (35:35)

It was just. Those moments were just so cool.

B (35:37)

Yeah, I agree. It's like, you know, that same money, more problems.

A (35:41)

For sure.

B (35:41)

It's real.

A (35:42)

Absolutely.

B (35:43)

It's just, you know, but it's like, it's also. How do we navigate those. Those. Those problems now? Right? It's like. And things that sometimes I think are problems. Like, man, that's a champagne problem.

A (35:52)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Dude.

B (35:54)

I'm going to Nashville. The flight's canceled. I got a middle seat, and I'm like, yeah, champagne problems, dude.

A (36:01)

Yeah.

B (36:02)

Like, humble yourself, bro. You're going to Nashville to rip a new track at. You know, stop being a little. I got this saying my. My brother in law taught me. He's like, dbab. I'm like, what's dbab? He's like, don't be a bitch. I'm like, true.

A (36:17)

You're like, noted. I'm going to write that down.

B (36:19)

Yep. I did. I wrote. I literally have a jacket that I wear. It's this camo jacket, and on the inside of it, it says dbab. You know, I was like. Because we were doing these acoustic runs, and I was just exhausted, and I'm like, oh, God, I just want to do this. I'm, like, worn out. I look inside my jacket. I'm like, all right, cool.

A (36:36)

You said something in a podcast that actually stuck with me. When I was on the treadmill last night, you said, when I make plans, God laughs.

B (36:42)

Oh, yeah.

A (36:42)

And I was like, that's so real.

B (36:44)

Oh, yeah.

A (36:45)

And I was like, I'm stealing that. So if you ever hear me say that I'm gonna. I will credit you.

B (36:49)

I probably stole it from somebody else. You know what I mean? That's just. It's just one of those sayings. It's like, yeah, when I make plans, God laughs. And it's so true. Yeah, it's. It is, man.

A (37:00)

So moving forward, let's talk about when you guys. In 2000, when you guys drop your. It. Was it your first, like, your first big album that made it big?

B (37:11)

That was our first major label record. Yeah. And so 2000, I mean, it was Infest, right? Yes, Infest is the first one. And so at this point, right, we're. We started the band in 93. We put out a bunch of independent EPs, you know, DIY, selling them out the trunk of the car, showing up to corn shows with a boombox and, like, walking the line like, what the Papa Roach five bucks. What the Papa Roach five. But. And I'd sling in the CDs like that, you know, and we learned that from, like, the hip hop culture, you know, And I love that. That that hustle was alive. And I was just. It fit with my personality so well. I was just like. I'd be like, yo, what's up? I'm Kobe Dick about this. I'm about to sell you this record. You don't even know you're about to whip out five bucks. You give it to me before, you know, And I just was that guy. And so all the while, we're sending off our music to all the record companies. We're getting turned down by everybody, you know, from. I mean, you name it. Every. Every. We're not punk enough for the punk label. We're not metal enough for the metal label. We don'. We don't have a. Like, an image, you know, like, you guys don't have. Who are you? You know? And I'm like, well, dude, we're just. We're P. Roach from Vacaville, California. What the. Like, what else you need? And I had this delusion that I was ready for the big time before I was ready for the big time.

A (38:27)

But that's what got you to where you are.

B (38:29)

Totally. Like, I feel like those that you manifested. Yeah, it's those. Those delusions of grandeur, like, really served me well. And we eventually got a Demo deal with DreamWorks or sorry, with Warner Brothers, and we went and recorded, like, Last Resort and a handful of other songs, and then our A and R in that process got fired. And I'm like. I remember being in the van and just sitting with the boys going, like, what are we gonna do, man? Like, we'll just put it out independently.

A (39:02)

Yeah.

B (39:03)

You know, and so that was the mo. So we're like, let's finish mixing these tracks. Well, while we were mixing these tracks, Dreamworks Records hollered at our management. They're like, we want to come down and hear some of the songs. So they came down the studio, heard the songs, and they were like, all right. Like, they started to pursue us, court us, you know, take us out to dinner. We're like, oh, we'll take all the free dinners we can. We're hungry.

A (39:27)

Yeah.

B (39:28)

You know, so we did that, and we eventually got a dream deal with DreamWorks. And that was just like, oh, my God. You know, I felt like I had made it to the top, you know, but, you know, all the while I realized, like, I was just at the bottom of another mountain, but grateful. And we went and recorded all these songs, and the A and R told the producer, Jay Baumgartner, he's like, don't mess with this band. Like, just, let's get a great quality recording of these band songs. You know, let's not try to, like, rewrite and rearrange. And, like, there's something magic in what these dudes are doing. And so we went in and recorded it, and this is, like, at the point where, like, drinking really is starting to take off for me. I'm a couple years into my marriage. My wife Kelly, she's like, honey, like, you gotta watch yourself. Like, you better check yourself. And I did. I did not want to listen. I wasn't listening. You know, I was kind of off on my. Off to the. Off. Off to the races, as they say. And. And, you know when you're at the studio and you're like, you got a runner? And they're like, is there anything you guys want? And I'm like, yeah, I want to handle a vodka like a bag of weed. Let's go.

A (40:38)

But also, it probably made you feel like you could be more creative, too, at that time.

B (40:42)

Yeah, it was like. It was part of the creativity. And I felt like, yeah, man, let's get the creative juices flowing. And it was part of it, you

A (40:48)

know, part of the life was a lifestyle for us. Yeah. Part of it was part of the culture. It was like a lifestyle for us that grew up in the 90s and the 2000s. We didn't, like, all the kids work out now and like, everybody's like, it's like a completely different culture. We grew up going to ditch parties and, you know, having kegs and four, you know, drinking 40s of Old E. And like, it was just a different lifestyle back.

B (41:12)

Absolutely.

A (41:13)

Not that I'm making excuses. I'm just painting.

B (41:15)

Yeah. The culture of it, that's just what it was. It was so, you know, and I think, you know, the parents weren't so, like, oh, like, worried about it.

A (41:23)

They were doing the same thing.

B (41:24)

Kids will be kids. Yeah. My parents were partying and doing the whole damn thing, you know, so it was just natural. And. And all the while, you know, we're. We're recording this record and we got something great in the can and. And I remember, like, the band was like, well, we're gonna release this. Probably sell, like, you know, maybe 250,000 records, you know, if we're lucky. And I remember we. We got asked to come on Warped Tour and Last Resort just came out on the radio and this is our first single. And this song just caught fire like it was sanity. It's this. It caught fire and it's still on fire. Like, 25 years later.

A (42:05)

It's still on tick tock.

B (42:06)

Yeah.

A (42:06)

Going crazy.

B (42:07)

Yeah. Thank God.

A (42:08)

Yeah.

B (42:08)

I'm like. It's like, yeah, it is the gift that keeps on giving straight up. And it was just like a rocket ship ride to the top. And I was. I totally was not prepared. I didn't know how to act. I just was like, I was not trained for press. I was not, you know, I just. I had no. I had a big heart, you know, and my intentions were good and we were passionate about the music, and we went out there and we traveled the world and we sold millions and millions of records. And it was a party on a party stacked on top of another party. And, you know, I was just getting. I was. I. I became. After about a year and a half of this touring on this album, the questionable decisions started happening. The infidelity started to happen. The addictions were really setting in. When I would wake up and look in the mirror, I started to, like, hate the person that I saw because I was beginning to like that voice in the back of my head of my mother. Telling me that, like, better watch yourself. You might become, like, just like your father.

A (43:23)

But how amazing is that? That even through all of that and the addiction, you know, the infidelity and. And did you ever get into drugs?

B (43:31)

Were drugs, you know, I did. I did cocaine a few times. You know, like Dave Chappelle says, cocaine's a hell of a drug. And. But I never was, like, really into it. It was the drinking and the pills was the thing for me. I was kind of like a downer type of guy. And I'm super grateful that, you know, I didn't cross the line into, like, heroin or anything like that. But, you know, I like to chew Vicodin and vodka. Like, that was, like a recipe for.

A (43:57)

Mine was Xanax. Mine was Xanax and vodka.

B (44:00)

Oh, yeah, all that. I remember it all. Some of it I don't remember.

A (44:05)

Yeah, but how cool is it that you still had that conscience while you were doing all of that? You still. In the back of your head, you just knew that it wasn't right and that you didn't want to be that person?

B (44:16)

Yeah, I didn't. You know, and I had a wife that was my ride or die. And, you know, she was like, yo, like, what are you doing? Yeah, why are you living like this? And.

A (44:25)

And she knew you before this? Yeah, I mean, straight up, real.

B (44:28)

She fell in love with the janitor at the hospital. Like, that's what my job was at the time, you know? And, like, we got married, and I was a janitor at a hospital. I was cleaning toilets. Right. And so, like, that type of love, like, you can't. You can't. That's a hard one to break, you know? And, like, we like to joke, you know, we're about to be 30 years married.

A (44:48)

Three decades.

B (44:49)

Yeah.

A (44:50)

That's wild.

B (44:51)

Is it 29 or 30 coming up? I think it's. I think it's 30. No, it's. It'll be 29 next year, it'll be 30. And so we're coming up. Yeah, no, 29 and coming up. We're 28 right now. And we like to joke, you know, that the only reason we're still married is because we never wanted to get a divorce at the same time.

A (45:13)

That's awesome, though.

B (45:14)

And it's like, there's been moments where, you know, I was in full flight from reality and I didn't want to be in this relationship. And then there was moments where she didn't want to be in this relationship. You know, I was. There was a moment where I was, you know, kicked out the house and we were, we were on the outs. And I'm living at my bro, you know, I got this, this big old, you know, mansion of a house, and I'm living at my brother's in this little 10 by 10 bedroom out of the trunk of my, you know, Challenger car. My clothes are in there, and I'm just kind of vagabond living and like, trying to get my life right. And, you know, we've been through those, those moments, you know, we've been through the therapy, we've been through the marriage counseling, you know, countless attempts of sobriety, you know, and, and she's just loved me through the most broken, like, my most broken moments in my life. And I am like, I am blessed, you know, beyond blessed to have a woman like that, that like, loves, has loved me through my crazy. And she loves your soul. Yeah, she see, you know, she sees something in me that I didn't see in myself a lot of the time. And it's, she's been patient with me and she's, she's allowed me to make, make some serious mistakes and forgiven me for those mistakes. And, you know, I mean, hey, it ain't perfect. It takes two to tango, you know, and it's like, you know, we've, we've had our, our battles, you know, I mean, knock down drag outs, you know, throwing the dishes at each other, you know, War of the Roses type shit. And it's, it isn't all pretty. But I will say that, you know, back in the day, I got some advice from my bass player's grandfather and he said, you know, some marriage advice. He was like, you know, a strong marriage isn't always going to be pretty. It's not always going to be loving. But it's the glue that you take the broken pieces and it's the glue that you put these pieces back together with that's going to be the strength that makes a loving marriage endure, you know, And I just, and I, I had to experience that. I had to like, take the vase and just throw it at the wall and destroy it and go, oh, God. Like. And we both picked up the pieces and put them back together together, you know what I mean? And, and, and that is, you know, now it's like, it's funny because we're like having conversations in our lives now about, like, all right, like, what do you want to be called when you're a grandma? Like, what do you want to be called when you're a grandpa? I love you know, and it's like. Because my kids are getting older now. My oldest son, he's like 24. Jaggers, 21. And then Brixton, my youngest is 12, you know, and so, I mean, my kids are shooting live ones, so. No, I mean, slow down. Hey, son, I'm not ready. Just saying.

A (48:28)

Grandpa Jacoby, what are you gonna be called?

B (48:30)

I'm gonna be called Papa, and my wife's gonna be called. Kelly's gonna be called Go, Go.

A (48:34)

Oh, yeah.

B (48:35)

Because she's just go, go, go all the time. Like, my wife is like, from 6:30am she is just like. I'm like.

A (48:40)

So I feel like you need that, though.

B (48:42)

Sit on the couch, babe. Chill for a minute.

A (48:45)

I feel like you need that, though, because you said seem like you're always go, Go, too.

B (48:49)

We have to check ourselves sometimes and, like, check in with each other and go, hey, like, yo, we need a date night. Yeah, it's date night.

A (48:56)

That's how Jay and I are, too. Sometimes we have to be like, dude, we haven't been on a date night in so long. Like, we have to do something.

B (49:01)

Yeah. I mean, I. I think we do share a lot of similarities in that regard, that we're both like, I'm a. I'm a people person. You know, I'm outgoing. I think my bit. My wife is a bit more recluse. She could be the type that's, like, holed up in a house in the countryside and not see anybody for a month and be okay.

A (49:16)

Yeah, I'm the same way.

B (49:17)

Yeah.

A (49:17)

Believe it or not.

B (49:18)

Go, Go. You know, she got her things. We got a little, like, in the backyard. We got the chickens, and we got a tortoise. And, you know, we got our pets. We got four pup. You know, four dogs.

A (49:28)

Would you guys move to Nashville and have a little farm?

B (49:30)

I mean, we've. The discussion has been had many times in our house. I think I've spent a lot of time on Realtor and Dot com and Zillow.

A (49:39)

I have a Realtor for you if you guys need a Realtor.

B (49:41)

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, we've talked. My brother actually moved out here. My brother loves it. He's been twisting my tits about moving out here for quite some time. A guitar player lives out here now.

A (49:49)

I always say that Nashville is LA with a soul.

B (49:53)

I'm. You are absolutely 100% correct.

A (49:55)

Yeah. But I. I would anytime. Because I'm from the West Coast, I grew up in Vegas. Anytime I go back to Cali or I'm in Vegas, I'm just always reminded of how commercial everything is now, and, like, it's lost its glitter. And when you come to Nashville, it's like everybody still has a soul, you know, and, like, everything is just so warm and inviting and it hasn't been taken. I mean, it's corporate, but it's not like how it is on the West Coast.

B (50:20)

No, absolutely. I was just talking to somebody about that before I came here at the shoot, and it's like talking about the same exact thing. It's like the. The spirit of this city is real and it's alive, and it feels like maybe what LA felt like 20, 25, 30 years ago.

A (50:35)

Yes.

B (50:36)

Where it was just like the possibilities were there and the creativity was alive and the culture was, like, bustling. Right. And there feels like this life in this city. Especially when I went down to Broadway and we did that acoustic set, and I. Afterwards, I was just, by the way,

A (50:53)

to cut you off really quick, can you please go play an acoustic set at our bar? Good night, Nashville. Please.

B (50:57)

Dude, I was. It's funny, man, because I was like, the last time I. I was in Nashville, I was out here with my. Both my brothers, and we were down on Broadway, and I was at this club across the street, and I was looking at Jelly's joint across the way, and I was like, like, that's dope. What's up? What has the skull with the crown? Yeah, up in the top.

A (51:13)

I was like, we need you to go do one of these live sets. Oh, yeah, please.

B (51:17)

We'll do it. We'll for sure do it.

A (51:19)

Anytime you want. Just hit Mimi. We'll plug you guys right in. You guys go and do it. But what is it like playing on Broadway? And you went down on Broadway. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I was just like, we want in on that, too.

B (51:29)

No, your spot is dope. Straight up. But I looked at it from across the street at the Rooftop bar, and I was like, that's just popping, dude. That's a great spot. But I was talking to a bunch of people afterwards, just kind of saying, what's up to the fans? And. And I realized, like, there's so many people in this city that are all musicians, that are all, you know, either have made it and are. Are just good people or young people that came here to make it. And I just love the culture of that. And it's like, you know, when I even just down to simple things, like driving down the road, you know, and you. That. Yeah, you Know what I'm talking about?

A (52:07)

Yeah. The Jeep wave, dude, I'm telling you,

B (52:10)

I'm in Sacramento, I, I, and I never get it back, dude. And I'm like, when I'm here and I'm like, everybody, I'm like, sup? I love, I love that. And it's, you know, it. Finally I got a boat. I finally just got a boat. I live pretty close by the river, so boat people in Sacramento though, everybody waves at each other.

A (52:29)

Yeah.

B (52:29)

When you got a boat. And so, but yeah, I like that soulfulness about this city. I love the food, I love the music. And so there's so many reasons for me to come out here, you know. But then it's also like home's home, you know, I never lived in la, you know, I just go down there to make records and so I live up in Sacramento. I've lived there for, you know, for the last, like around the area for the last 30 plus years, you know. When we started having babies and stuff like that, my parents, my mom and my stepdad stuck around the area and so we got a tight village, you know, when I go home, it's like I kind of got a small circle, you know, and so it's like I spend more time with my parents than like I care to admit, you know.

A (53:11)

But that's a great thing.

B (53:13)

No, I mean, I'm not ashamed of it.

A (53:14)

Spend as much time as you can. Because I lost Both my parents 2022 and 2024.

B (53:20)

Damn.

A (53:20)

Spend as much time with them as you can.

B (53:22)

Oh, yeah, we do, we do all that. I mean, we're, it's a regular thing for us. And that's what really is. Like, who's calling me?

A (53:31)

Oh, I was like, whose phone is that?

B (53:33)

It's, it's probably my wife.

A (53:35)

It's a vibe.

B (53:36)

Yeah.

A (53:36)

If you don't, if it's wifey answer so we can say hi. I love that.

B (53:40)

Sorry. Let me just.

A (53:41)

I love seeing you in dad mode, dude.

B (53:43)

I'm fucking dad as fuck.

A (53:44)

I bet you're like a cool ass dad.

B (53:46)

I'm a rad dad.

A (53:47)

Yeah.

B (53:49)

It is just being a dad is like, it is just the joy of my life, honestly. And I think part of one of the cool things I think about being a father too is like, how can I say this? A lot of, a lot of like my partying, like my raging and I did it on the road and I would come home and I would try to dry out and like just like white knuckle it through it so my kids Although there was a lot of dysfunction, I really did my best to, like, hide it from my kids and my older sons. You know, there's. There's not a lot of a ton of recollections of me, like, being, like, drunk, shitty dad, you know, And. And so I'm really grateful that, like, I didn't really damage my kids through all that. And Brixton, my youngest, has never seen me drunk. You know what I mean? And I just. I love that, that, you know, that. That he's been able to experience that, like, stability, you know, And. Yeah, but being a fatherhood, I mean, fatherhood's the best hood. Fatherhood is sacred. It's the coolest. Like, my kids are just. I'm, you know, a football dad. My son. Both my boys played football. They're both playing college lacrosse, you know, and so I fly out there, go, I got my cowbell. I'm in the stands yelling and screaming for my kids. Like, I'm. It is just. It is the joy of my life, you know, outside of the music and, you know, it's something like, me and my wife, we just. We just are our kids biggest fans, you know, and it's like, what do

A (55:24)

you think is the biggest lesson that your kids have taught you? Each one. Because you have three, right?

B (55:29)

Yeah.

A (55:30)

So each one. What has each one taught you?

B (55:32)

Yeah, I think, because I feel like

A (55:33)

every child has different personalities, you know, something different.

B (55:37)

Mikhail is the most cautious and self aware child I have. He's 24. And the thing he's taught me is, I'd say, like, patience and understanding in a way that he's just so loving and kind that I had to, like, check myself and slow my pace down and just be there in the moment with my son. He loves talking, right? Like, when we get on the phone, he'll talk through the details of every little thing. And it's like. That's kind of like the. The way that we communicate when we're talking. It's like he wants to talk through all the details of every part of his day. And I just. I love that, like, slowing down the pace of my life, because he. He knows how to do that. And I just. I think that's so cool. And I just. I'm so proud of that kid. And he's, you know, he's such a hard worker. He is just a grinder. Like, he's. He's going to college. He's gonna be a doctor. Right? Wow.

A (56:41)

Good for you. Good for you.

B (56:42)

Yeah, he'd be a doctor of physical therapy. So Dr. Roach back? Yep. And so he's in his last year of school, and I'm just so proud of him. And just, he's. He's really been through some hard times and some heartbreak, and, you know, he's. His life has inspired me to write some songs. And, you know, Jagger. Jagger's, like, so much like me in the way of, like, he's got. She's got that big heart. He loves hard. He puts his heart. He wears his heart on his sleeve. He's kind of the. The leader in the spaces that he's in. You know, been the captain of his football team, et cetera, you know, the leader of his friend group, that kind of thing, but this. And then also the type that needs to, like, run 100 miles an hour into a brick wall and feel the pain and, like, the struggle and the strife and the, you know, take his lumps, and, you know, he's very bullheaded, and it's almost like he's kind of gotten some of the. Some of the traits about me and my wife that were both like, damn, dude, you got some of the, like, the. The harder edges of who we are. Yeah, but he's just got the biggest heart, you know? And so Jagger, he's.

A (57:53)

And how old is he?

B (57:54)

Jagger's 21.

A (57:55)

Okay.

B (57:55)

You know, and he's. That, you know, he. He tells me, he's like, dad, like, you're my safe place. Like, you're. You're my. You're my place where I can just let all my walls fall.

A (58:05)

And that means so much for a child.

B (58:07)

Just be vulnerable, you know, And. And, you know, I'm just grateful that, you know, both me and my wife, we have these very special, unique relationships with all of our kids, you know, and. And so Jagger, you know, I think that the. The thing that he's taught me is like, again, like, I keep saying patience, you know, but it's like, I just gotta allow him to be him and not try to impose the knowledge that I've. I've tried to raise him the best I can and love him the best we can and teach him as many valuable lessons as we can, but also, like, to allow him to be him and find his way.

A (58:49)

Right.

B (58:49)

You know, And I think that, you know, he wants to go. He wants to go into the music he grew up listening to, you know, Yellow Wolf is, like, one of his favorite rappers.

A (59:00)

We can connect you guys with Yellow, man.

B (59:02)

He's a real one. Yeah, Yeah, I got a. I got a slum tat With Yellow one night in a hotel room.

A (59:07)

Oh, gosh. Okay. I should have known that you two found each other.

B (59:10)

Yeah. Yeah. That was a wild night. But, you know, Jagger's just. He want. He wants to get into the music. He's got a great voice. He's got a great singing voice.

A (59:19)

And, you know, do you support it? Are you behind it?

B (59:21)

I do. You know, there's parts of me that are like, are you sure? Because. But because he's so similar to me that I just don't want him to, like, make some of the same mistakes that I've made. And, you know, like, the same way that my mother was kind of trying to warn me about the slippery slope of the ism, you know, like, there's. He's got a few of those characteristics, and I have to, you know, check in with him. Like, yo, dude, you good, man. He, like, you using that drink as I could, like, a crutch. Like, what's going on? What's going down? Like, you know, he was the kid that I was like, you know, I caught with the weed vape pen at 14, and I'm like, yeah, man, like, it's a little too young, you know, but it's also like, how do you. Like my friend said, he's like, you know, how do you beat the you out of your child? You know? And it's like, well, first, don't beat your child.

A (60:11)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No beatings.

B (60:13)

But, you know, it's like those things about me that I see see in him that might be challenges or it's going to happen. You know what I mean? Like, he's.

A (60:20)

I think it's what you said earlier, though, with him is that you lead by example.

B (60:24)

Yeah.

A (60:24)

Because that's what got through to you.

B (60:26)

Yeah.

A (60:27)

So that's what will get through to him.

B (60:29)

And. And I'm, you know, we're doing. And he's. They're both great kids. They're both. They live under the same roof, and so I got to hear the drama. Two brothers living underneath, you know, the same roof, just off this kid, if he leaves his crap everywhere. And I'm just like, dude, do not call me about this. Yeah. Put your, like, your big boy pants on and figure it the fuck out. Yeah. You know what I mean?

A (60:48)

Like, straight up, you're like, try touring with freaking 10 people.

B (60:52)

Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, yeah.

A (60:54)

In one bus. Yeah.

B (60:56)

You could just smell the fart coming out of the bunk.

A (60:58)

I can't do it.

B (60:59)

Yeah, yeah.

A (60:59)

I travel separately with my own bus. When I travel with My husband on tour because I am not about to bunk up with a bunch of dudes.

B (61:06)

Yeah, all the boys.

A (61:07)

Not happening. No, we have the girl bus. There's like crocodile pot meals and like, you know, everybody's just having a good time. And then you go over to my husband's bus and it's just trashed everywhere.

B (61:16)

Mayhem. Pork chops. Got a. All over the place probably right.

A (61:19)

We have buses on the bus for sure. His dog. So circling back to the music really quick. Can you please re release Tightrope for me, Dude.

B (61:28)

So we did a. We did a 2020 rerecord of it after like TikTok and stuff was popping. We were like, we're going to go rerecord some of our songs. And so we did a rerecord of Tightrope and it's on Spotify. You should go check it out.

A (61:42)

I will.

B (61:43)

2020 version. I actually just did. We did this kind of retrospective day today through all of our albums. We just. My brother lives out here. He does all my social media and so we actually did a few TikToks and Instagram type posts for that song. Tightrope in particular.

A (62:03)

It's one of my favorite.

B (62:04)

Yeah, you went deep. You went deep on that one.

A (62:05)

Listen, Tightrope, when that album came out I. Everybody loved, you know, all the other songs and Tightrop would. Would just resonated with me. Tight Rope has always been my jam. I loved that song. I just feel like, I don't know, I just felt the words. And then the other song that nobody ever really talks about with you is Scars.

B (62:24)

Yeah, like.

A (62:25)

Yeah, I love, you know, Last Resort and I love why you wrote it because you wrote it about a friend who gonna commit suicide. But can we talk about Scars? Because I feel like that solidified you and as like legendary status and like staying in the game because yeah, you can come out with that first record that. But there's always one hit wonders and then I mean you've had way more than just scars also. But Scars came next. Correct. That was like your biggest one.

B (62:51)

Yeah, that was like. That was a. That was a very like redeeming moment for the band because after Last Resort and In Fest, our first album, we toured the world, we sold millions of albums.

A (63:03)

It's hard to follow up something like that.

B (63:05)

I'm telling you, dude, it was just like we had. We hit rock bottom for a minute and it was like, like I remember going out and touring on Love Hate Tragedy, the album after that and we sold almost on the brink of a million records. And it was considered like a commercial failure. And I'm like, like, is it over? You know, because at this time, it was like music in pop culture was changing. It was like the Strokes had came out, the Vines, the Hives, you know, the White Stripes. All this new wave of music was happening and we were not that, you know, And I'm like, dude, how are we going to survive this? And so we were back to the drawing board. And this was right. Scars was right at the time when this was the first time I tried to get sober, you know, I remember calling the producer, Howard Benson. I, I in a blackout. I was threat, I was like, threatening to burn my house down. And, like, it was, you know, luckily my wife didn't call the cops. She called my parents. You know, my mom came and just slap checked me into, you know, into shape.

A (64:22)

Sometimes we need those.

B (64:23)

Yeah. And it was one of those, like, moments of clarity, for one. That was one of the first moments of clarity for me. I was like, I think I got a problem. Like this alcohol's got a hold of me. And I, I, I decided to get sober. And I called my producer and right before we were moving to la, Kelly and I, and we, My son Michael, at the time was maybe just like one year old. And I'm like, we're packing up the family, we're going down to la. Because I wasn't about to go down to la, just volatile and out of my head and call my producer. And I'm like, I'm getting sober. And he's like, you're gonna do what? And I remember he gave me attitude, gave me lip about wanting to get sober. He's like, that's what's wrong with all these musicians. Now everybody's getting sober and every up rock and roll. And I just remember, like, hanging up the phone going, I'm rolling down to LA to go punch this guy in the face. Yeah, like, you and I cooled off on the drive, got down there, you know, and we had this batch of songs and Scars was one of those songs. And we presented all the songs to the producer, and it was one of those songs that he, the producer, was kind of like, I'm not so sure about that one. Like, it's good, but it's like we would grade all of our songs like, this is an A song, this is a B song, this is a C song. And I think it would. He graded it like a circle. And we're like, we just knew that there was something special in this song. And I think that because it was so different from the sound of like, quote Papa Roach, that it wasn't necessarily. It caught that. It didn't really catch the ear of the producer, but it. I feel like whenever we do something that kind of makes me feel a little uncomfortable, Creatively vulnerable. Yeah, it just. There's. That. There's something special about that. And I just. We held on to that. We're like, we have to like, see this song through. And we did, and we got to the end of it and we presented this, the album, to Jimmy Iovine at the time was the president of the company, and he's a very knowledgeable, well respected, you know, industry music mogul. And we turn. Turned the record into him and he hit us back and he's like, well, you know, the song Scars, it's pretty good, but I feel like you need to go back into the studio and re record it to make it sound more like It's Been a While by Stained. And I'm like, do you mean, like. It's like I just. I just was kind of like taken back. Like, God, this. This music business is like they're trying to tell us how to do what we do.

A (66:59)

And I felt like he was controlling your creativity.

B (67:01)

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I was very offended.

A (67:04)

What did the original sound sound as? Soft? I don't want to say soft, but sound as intimate.

B (67:09)

Well, so we went in and re recorded the song. Right, okay. And it was the. The most like average white guy BS rock dribble that we had ever written. We turned it in. We're like, this is trash. And so the version of Scars that you hear now is the. Was the original version that we turned into Jimmy Iovine.

A (67:28)

Okay.

B (67:29)

So it was like we went through the motions of like, all right, cool, we'll try to like, appease you, which. Dude. Stained is an amazing band. The song It's Been a While is an amazing song, but it just was. It didn't fit for Scars, like, it. For us to try to like, revamp it to sound like that. We went through the exercise, went through the motions, but. But it just didn't hit the way that it was supposed to. And he. I think he. Well, obviously he realized and was like, all right, we'll go with the original version. We'll go with your gut. You know, this is on you. And I'm like, that's right. It's on me. Like, let's go. And that album we. We led with Getting Away With Murder. The song Getting Away With Murder, that song went to the top of the rock charts. And then when we released Scars, I'm like, cr. I'm like crossing my fingers. I'm like, dude, this, like, this is, this is like sink or swim for us because, you know, we're starting. The industry's like starting to look back at us like, oh, this band is like a real thing. Scars went straight to the top of the rock charts and then moved up into the pop charts and we had a top tie, top five hot ac, top five pop record with, with Scars. And that was just like so validating. I only have one plaque of, of Paparoach hanging in my house. And it's that for Getting Away With Murder, that album, because it just meant so much to me. Like, the first album was like, it. It was powerful. And, you know, I mean, we sold more records on the first album than we did with Getting Away With Murder and Scars. But I think that kind of coming back from, I guess, almost the brink of disaster and complete utter failure as a band in the mainstream to be able to come back and, and pop off again and sell, you know, nearly 2 million records on that album was like, so rewarding. And just like, we can do this. Like, we can. Like, we broke the curse of being a one hit wonder, you know. And so that song is like straight up, like another one of those. A gift that keeps on giving. It's. It's honestly become like, like a staple of who we are, you know, so it's, it's funny because when fans talk to, talk to us about Old School Papa Roach, I'm like, we've been around so long. I'm like, all right, like, what, what era of Paparoach do you think? Old School Papa Roaches, Is it like, is it 2005? Paparoach? Is it the year 99? Papa Roach? Is it 2010? Papa Roach? Because, you know, we've like gained different fans at different points in our, in our story. And so, yeah, it's like when somebody says Old School Paparo, I'm just like, I'm confused. I don't know what you want. So we're just like, I need a year.

A (70:14)

Tell me what year you're talking about here.

B (70:16)

Exactly. And yeah, so Scars was definitely one of those songs that broke down a lot of barriers for our band.

A (70:22)

Do you ever look back at your legacy that you've built and just be proud of yourself?

B (70:28)

I think as I get older and I think, I think it was 20, the year 2020 when we hit the 20 year anniversary of that album infest. That I started to get that, like, proud dad kind of moment about what we'd done. And just looking at, man, we've. We've done this, like, this dream that I had when I was 14, 15, 16, I'm living it like this. This dream had become reality. Yeah. Maybe at times it was a nightmare, but it really. Like, it. It is. It is everything that I wanted and more. It's the journey, and it is. And. And, you know, it's. I. I look at it, and I'm so grateful that, you know, I made the mistakes I made, and I recovered from those mistakes, and I was able to grow musically, creatively, personally, spiritually, and in so many ways. And. And now, you know, it's like, here we are. It's 20, 26. Like, my mind is blown. I'm still in the game.

A (71:32)

Yeah.

B (71:32)

You know, we just leave a light on one of our last singles. You know, it's like, who would have thunk in a gajillion years that we would have an acoustic song that rock, you know, went to the top of the rock charts and. And, you know, moved into the alternative space again, and then to, like, have a lady like Carrie Underwood bless the track, you know, I'm just like, I gotta keep pinc. Like, dude, the gift just keeps on giving. Like, it just keeps revealing itself to me in so many cool and fun and interesting ways that I'm just like, each day I wake up when it comes to this creativity, I'm like, all right, what do you got for me now? God, like, where are we going? You know, it's like, it's such a. It's a cool experience, and as. And as hopeful as I am, it's as. It can be as dreadful as. As possible. Some days I. Wait. It was funny, like. Like, two days ago, I woke up, and I just was, like, on the phone with my wife, Kelly, and I'm just like. She's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I just want to curl up in a ball and, like, not be jacoby today. I just. I just. I'm like, I'm. I'm just. I'm exhausted. And it's so wild how, like, I can wake up like that, like, have so many gifts on blessings, on blessings, on blessings, and still wake up just not wanting to, like, get out of bed.

A (72:51)

You're human.

B (72:52)

Yeah. And I just. I was like. It was so. It sounds so corny. No, I'm like, babe, can you just, like, just. Just tell me I'm the man. Like, just tell Me, I can go get this. Like, just, like, gas me up. I just need it. And she's like, you're the man, honey. And I just.

A (73:08)

It's like sometimes she breathes life into you.

B (73:10)

Yeah.

A (73:11)

My husband does the same thing, though.

B (73:13)

Sorry?

A (73:13)

I said, my husband does the same thing, though.

B (73:15)

Yeah. And it's. And it's like, I think that, like, that there's this. There's this brokenness that's still in me that I'm trying. And it's just a journey that I'm continually trying to heal in myself. And this music has just been. It's been a reflection of that. It's been the soundtrack of that. And my mistakes and my failures and my triumphs, they all come through, you know? And something as simple as my wife just saying, honey, you're the man. You could do it. Like, she don't. I don't even know if she knows, like, how much those simple gestures or just, like, something simple. Like, she could just tell I'm having it, like, a day, and she'll just, like, reach over and, like, put her hand on my neck and, like, massage the back of my neck. And I'm just like. Like, everything's gonna be okay, you know, because it's like. Like, I think there's a lot of weight I think I carry as.

A (74:12)

It's a lot of pressure as, like,

B (74:13)

you know, there is a lot of pressure in this business to, like.

A (74:16)

Well, there's a lot of pressure to continue.

B (74:17)

Yes.

A (74:18)

To keep going with Papa Roaches. There's so much pressure because of all the years that you've been doing.

B (74:24)

Oh, yes.

A (74:24)

Everybody's waiting for your next move.

B (74:26)

Yeah. I ain't bulletproof, I ain't Superman yeah. But I sure try to put on like I am sometimes. And when I am on stage, I feel that way. I really do. I feel like I'm, like, invincible. And then when I get back, you know, come back down to earth and I, like, sit on the couch and, like, just take a breath and. And then the reality of just who I am sets in. And I'm like, I'm just a man, you know, I'm just a dude trying to get it right, trying to make the night next right decision, you know, try not to be a dirt bag, trying to be honest and make the next, you know, right move. And, you know, it's like, do you

A (75:01)

take breaks for yourself? Like, do you go on vacation? What do you do to reset your mental health?

B (75:06)

Oh, yeah, that's. I had a conversation with one of my Managers yesterday. I'm like, dude, after I get back from this trip, it's. It's time to unplug. And he's like, actually, you got to come back to Nashville and shoot a music video in a couple weeks. I'm all gonna start to get pissed on them. Like, quality problems. Yeah, quality problem. But I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna chuck this phone.

A (75:30)

My husband does that all the time.

B (75:32)

I'm just like, I'm gonna turn it off. I'm just gonna go disappear. For me, getting out in nature is a. My fitness and my, my exercise is a big thing for me. Running is, like, been a comfort, comfort place for me. I live real close to the American river, and there's all these horse trails that I'll just go out and I will go run those trails until I'm physically exhausted. And I just come back, like, renewed. And I work out. I don't run to music. So I, I process a lot of these questions and anxieties and frustrations and, you know, songs come to me in those moments, and lyric ideas come to me in those moments. And, you know, so, so I do that. I, I, I'm very mindful of my eating habits. And, you know, just as jelly, like, you know, food has sometimes been a thing to me. Like, I'm a binging kind of guy. And so putting those things in check and, like, having some discipline and obedience in my life has really, like, given me, like, like, it strengthened me, you know? And I think also breath work is. Has been something for me that's, like, phenomenal. Yeah, it's. I. During COVID when everybody's locked up, a really good friend of mine, this guy named Sonny Mayo, was running a. He's a sober brother of mine. He was running a breath work class on Zoom. And he's like, dude, you should show up to one of these. And I showed up and I did. Did this 25 minute breath work, and it was just like a floodgate of emotion just broke in me. And I just, like, just all these things that I was carrying around, it just. It just flooded out. And he gave me some. Some sound advice, you know, because I was really struggling for a moment, and he's like, can I suggest something to you? I'm like, yeah, man, I'll take anything right now. And he's like, first thing you do when you wake up is you slide down off the side of your bed and you hit your knees and you pray. And then right after that, you grab your pad of paper and you Go write two to three pages of just whatever's in your head.

A (77:40)

Yeah.

B (77:41)

And it's called morning pages. And so I did that for the better part of a year, year and a half. And just. I would. Just the crazy I would write and just the things that were in my head, I was like, dude, are you okay? But I think that writing out that crazy was very therapeutic for me. And so I, you know, these. These types of routines that I go back to when things are getting sticky. It's like, like breath, work, meditation, prayer. Now I'm on to doing this men's Bible study, you know, these things that these, you know, I got this toolkit now when, like, life's getting shifty and I want to, like, you know, just make a bad decision. It's like, nah, dude, pause, pause. Like, don't light your life on fire. Don't. You know. And that's kind of what this self sabotage. Yeah. Oh, God. I was the king of it for years.

A (78:27)

Yes.

B (78:27)

And I've come to a point now, you know, where it's like, I don't want to sabotage this thing. It's too good. It's. I got too much to be grateful for, you know, and. And gratitude is another tool of mine that really puts things in perspective on my social media. That's kind of how I've chosen to participate with it. So I just put up a gratitude list.

A (78:47)

Can we bring those back? Cause I have been waiting for one. And I went to go look yesterday and I was like, why haven't I seen his gratitude list? And you haven't posted since last year.

B (78:57)

Yeah, it's been a minute. Yeah, it was like July. Not that I haven't written gratitude lists. It's just, you know, I just kind of was just like, ah, not gonna post, but I should.

A (79:05)

I don't think you realize much those gratitude lists mean to people because I would read them. I would read your gratitude list and. And again, your vulnerability. I didn't. I've always known the music. I never knew you until I started following you. And then when you were doing those gratitude lists, it would, like, gave us a glimpse inside of who you're. It gave us a glimpse of your heart where, like, we can hear your heart in the music, of course, but to hear. See your words and just your vulnerability like that every day with your gratitude list, this was really a beautiful thing.

B (79:34)

All right, challenge accepted.

A (79:36)

Bring him back.

B (79:37)

Bring them back. Bring it all back. I mean, it's 20 cats, a new

A (79:40)

year, you know, I think he should. I. I really think you should. All right. I'm not going to keep you much longer because I feel like I've been talking your ear off also, but can we end this? I have Sharon Osborne coming on the podcast.

B (79:50)

Oh, really?

A (79:51)

And I heard a story that Sharon crawled in your ass one time, but that, like, you really needed that.

B (79:57)

Oh, yeah.

A (79:58)

And I want to ask her about her version of it, too, if that's okay with you, whenever I have her on the podcast. Podcast next week.

B (80:04)

Absolutely.

A (80:04)

Tell me what happened with that.

B (80:06)

Well, first off, please give her a warm. A big old hug for me and just tell her hello and. And warm regards and, you know, just thinking about her praying. Praying for her and her family during this tough time and. Yeah. You know, but. Yeah, that moment, I was just, you know. You know, just drinking, trying to start riots. Well, I started a riot on Ozfest. Encouraged the fans to destroy the venue. They continue. They. They obliged and destroyed the venue. My A and R was like, dude, just jump in the back of my town car. So I. Cause the cops were looking for me, and so I jumped in the. Back in the. In the trunk of the town car. Cause they were searching vehicles as I was leaving, got out of there. They. They ended up getting a hold of my A and R and said, listen, you know, like, if you. If Jacoby doesn't come back and surrender to the cops, he's gonna get arrested for evading the police. And, like, you don't want that. You don't want that type of smoke. So I turn around, I turn myself into the New Jersey State Police. And I was detained. And, you know, they were cool enough to me, you know, I had to pay him. I was. I was bailed out later that evening. I had to pay a massive fine. And then I was like, cool. I'm like, all right, Going back to the bus. And they're like, I'll get back to the venue. And they're like, gotta come talk to mama. And I went into the office, and I had to sit down with Sharon, and she just chewed me a new. She's like, you got the world in the palm of your hands, and you're just acting like an idiot. Come to my festival. You. You start a riot. You destroy the venue. And she just read me the riot act, you know? And, like, she's like, you're lucky I don't kick you off this tour right now. You're lucky you're selling millions of records right now because your ass have been out of here, you know? And I just was like, you Know,

A (81:42)

and this little woman just chewing India.

B (81:45)

Just a pistol, you know, a fire plug. And, you know, I needed that. I straight up needed it. Like, I'm so grateful that she just checked me. And it. It really, like, I was humbled. Straight up, I was like, God, I didn't want to, like, get kicked off Ozfest because it was like, yo, we were out on tour with. It was like, P. Roach, Linkin Park, Slipknot, Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne. Like, it was just the same.

A (82:09)

The music was so good.

B (82:11)

Yeah. It was so rad. And I am just so grateful that she just chewed my ass out and set me straight, because, you know, I. I had the world in the palm of my hands, and I was selling millions of records, and I didn't want to ruin my career, and. And it really, like, changed the way that I approached this thing. And, you know, I. I think I maybe set up, set off a few more riots, you know, but just. They weren't on Oz Fest.

A (82:37)

It was just on your way out. You just had to let everybody know that.

B (82:39)

Yeah. I was like, all right, so I'm still, you know, wild.

A (82:42)

I still got it.

B (82:43)

Yeah. And so I definitely. I. I paid. Paid. I paid some fines in my day, and I was banned from that venue for years, and I eventually had gone back and was able to play there again, which was cool. We went back and did a tour with Nickelback and got back on that stage.

A (82:58)

Daddy Chatty.

B (82:59)

Yeah.

A (83:00)

I love Daddy Chatty.

B (83:01)

He's legit, man. It was a fun one on that tour. Yeah. But, yeah, thank you, Sharon, for ripping me a new. I needed it. I'm healed from that, and I learned my lessons, so thank you. You.

A (83:12)

We love that. Can we expect a country album from you since you're in Nashville so much?

B (83:16)

Oh, man. Who knows? You know, I actually just. I did some writing with this guy, D. Ray, who's actually done some stuff with Jelly.

A (83:22)

I love. D. Ray writes all my Christmas music.

B (83:24)

Yeah, dude. D is the business, dude. I love it, man. We became fast friends. We just wrote a couple songs together just recently, and. Yeah, you know, who knows? You might find me in Nashville dipping in the world a little bit. I'd love. You know, I think the way that I would, like, like, dip into it is to just guest on some country people's albums. I think that that would be a natural.

A (83:43)

My husband's about to drop a new album.

B (83:45)

Oh, dude. Hey, just holler at it.

A (83:46)

I'll put it in his ear.

B (83:47)

I'll holler at him. You know, you know, I'm good for it.

A (83:50)

I got you.

B (83:50)

But yeah, who knows where it takes us? And you know, I just want to say congrats to you. Congrats to you, you know, you and your family and crushing it and killing it. And thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming and you know, me and my wife are like, like, I was like, dude, I'm gonna be on Bunny's podcast. She's like, oh, sick, dude, this is tight. I can't wait to watch cuz she watches all your stuff, so.

A (84:10)

Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for coming, Jacobe. I'm so glad we finally got to sit down. And anytime you want to come promote anything, anytime, any, my couch is always open.

B (84:20)

Thank you.

A (84:21)

Let me know.

B (84:21)

Absolutely.

A (84:22)

Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Dumb Blonde. I'll see you guys next week. Bye. Did you know that parents rank teaching financial literacy as the toughest life skill? That's where greenlight comes in. The debit card and money app made for families. With greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance, and track spending with real time notifications. Kids learn how to earn, save, and spend responsibly while parents have peace of mind knowing smart money habits are being built with guardrails in place. Try greenlight risk free today@greenlight.com TryGreenlight that's greenlight.com. try greenlight.