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- [00:00]
Anna
You guys know I'm all about making life easier, especially when it comes to money. That's why I've been using Chime. It's fee free banking that actually feels like it's built for us, not the big banks. There are no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, no minimum balance, and you can earn up to 3% APY on your savings, which is way better than what I was getting before. It also helps you build credit without the stress. And because you listen to Dumb Blonde, you you can get up to $350 when you sign up and set up qualifying direct deposits. Plus, the Chime card lets you build credit with your own money. No interest, no annual fees. It's just a simple way to keep moving forward financially. Chime is a sponsor of the show, but I use it and love how simple it is. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com bunny that's chime.com b u n n I E It only takes a few minutes to sign up and Dumb Blonde listeners can earn up to an extra $350. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and the secured Chime Visa credit card are provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride bank na. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo terms apply. Limited time only. Must open the new account and complete qualifying activities to earn rewards. Advertised annual percentage yield with Chime plus status only. Otherwise 1% APY applies. No minimum balance required. Chime card on time Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for detail. Simple Terms these days I'm all about quality over quantity and that goes for my closet and my house. If something isn't well made and versatile, it's just not worth it to me. That's why I love quince. The fabrics feel elevated, the cuts are thoughtful and the pricing actually makes sense. They use premium materials like European linen, silk and organic cotton, and everything is designed to be simple, wearable and last season after season. They also work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman. So so you're not paying for a brand name, just really good quality pieces. The stitching holds up, the fabric keeps their shape and these are things you reach for over and over. I've been getting their bedding and towels for my house and they feel so good. Super soft, really breathable and they still look nice after washing, which I love. It just makes everything feel more put together without spending a fortune. Stop waiting to build the wardrobe and honestly the home you actually want. You don't need a ton of options. You just need pieces that work right now. Go quince.com bu n n I e for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to wear it and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q U I n c e.com bunny for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com bunny. Is this thing on? What's up, you sexy? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today I am super excited about the guests that we have. I think this man has gone through a complete media hurricane and somehow managed to be come this amazing father. And I just really am so grateful and thankful to have you here, Mr. Larry Birkhead.
- [03:29]
Larry Birkhead
Thank you. Thank you. Well, what an intro. Thank you.
- [03:31]
Anna
I mean, it's real though, because I feel like everybody is like, oh, it's Anna Nicole's ex. And it's like, I think you're so much more than that. I think you survived a shitstorm and literally chose to raise a daughter over profit. And I think just your testimony and stood the test of time. There's so much that we're going to dive into that I learned about you. And then I rewatched the documentary last night that we're going to kind of dissect while we're on the podcast together. But I mean, just starting off, you grew up in Kentucky. I was really, it was really crazy. And is this right information? Because sometimes I Google stuff and get like, wrong information. You have a twin brother?
- [04:14]
Larry Birkhead
I do have a twin brother.
- [04:15]
Anna
Do you guys look, like, identical?
- [04:17]
Larry Birkhead
We don't actually. We don't look a lot like we're. We're fraternal. But had we looked a lot alike, I would have probably used him as a decoy during a lot of my craziness.
- [04:25]
Anna
But dude, that would have been so cool, right? I. That was going to be my next question. Like, if you had a twin brother, why did you not Just like, you guys could have totally played the media,
- [04:34]
Larry Birkhead
which is, it's weird because I have a twin brother, but my dad's name is Larry Birkhead, so. Or was he passed away, but he, he, when all this stuff came out in the media, he had a lot of fun with his friends, telling them that he dated Anna Nicole. Oh, I bet. If you don't believe me, just look at the paper. There's my name. So.
- [04:51]
Anna
Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. So I. Your family has had to stand beside. Through this whole craziness, which we'll get into later, but I want to learn a little bit more about you. So tell me a little bit about you. You want. You grew up in Kentucky. I know that you went to college and high school, like, and you're still in Kentucky.
- [05:09]
Larry Birkhead
Well, we. What we did. I grew up, you know, when. When I was young or my family moved just months old from Pennsylvania to Louisville, Kentucky, and then we. I grew up there and, you know, it was a. It was a great place to grow up. And while I was there, you know, going through high school, I started wanting to get into journalism and things like that. And so I actually started, you know, taking classes with photography when I was in college. I took a lot of journalism classes, and that was my major and everything. And so basically kind of just wanted to go down that path, but I didn't really know kind of where I wanted to fit in the. In the whole journalism thing. So I started getting interested in, like, celebrity photography and some stuff like that. And so I re. I actually started out writing and. And when you're in Kentucky, there's not a ton of stuff when it comes to, like, celebrity stuff. So you have to either travel to
- [06:10]
Anna
Nashville, unless you're into the Judds.
- [06:12]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [06:12]
Anna
Shout out to Wynonna.
- [06:15]
Larry Birkhead
Or, you know, you go, you know, you travel to the big cities and you do work. So I kind of like carved out a little, you know, spot for myself to where, you know, my career took off when I was like, just in the right place at the right time. I had a. I was doing a lot of volunteer work for the Derby festival and they were recruiting people to come in for the Derby and things. And there was a year that I was kind of like, you know, like, Mr. Haney on green Acres, you're doing this, but you're also doing that. Right, right.
- [06:45]
Anna
Like Jack of all trades.
- [06:46]
Larry Birkhead
I was kind of like, at the same time I was trying to break into the photography stuff. So there was a situation where there was the whole movie Titanic craze, you know, had just happened. And there's always a steamboat race for the Kentucky Derby, and as a part of this two week festival, they'll race anything, dogs, beds, you know, whatever. It's like, yeah, so I want to
- [07:06]
Anna
do the Kentucky Derby. I want to. He keeps inviting us and I Want us to go. I think it would be so sick if we can make it work in our calendars. We will, but I'm excited. I want to do it.
- [07:16]
Larry Birkhead
It'll be awesome. But so. Yeah. So that year, I want to say it was like 1998. I. The. The. One of the steamboats that we were racing against, the other steamboat had just sank, and some. Somebody, a worker got mad, they got fired, and they pulled something, and the whole boat went under. So they just brought the boat up at the time for this whole big festival for that week. And on the boat was Gloria Stewart, which is like the. The. The old lady from the Titanic that threw the necklace in the ocean.
- [07:49]
Anna
Yeah.
- [07:49]
Larry Birkhead
You know, and she was there, and
- [07:53]
Anna
it was just kind of like a history artifact.
- [07:55]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [07:55]
Anna
And like, serious in human form.
- [07:58]
Larry Birkhead
I remember because I had my. My little microphone, my little tape recorder, and I had my camera and stuff, and I had never had a picture published. I'd never written a story, taking classes, so it's kind of like, hyper to get out there before. I really should have.
- [08:12]
Anna
Yeah.
- [08:12]
Larry Birkhead
And I managed to get her to come up to the edge of the steamboat that just sank, and she put her arms out, like, you know, the king of the world, and I snapped the photo. And I don't know. I mean, it's probably wasn't the greatest photo. I remember, like, one of her fingers got cut off, but at the. At the time, it was like, the beginning of, like, digital.
- [08:30]
Anna
But why is she always around? Boat sinking? I don't know what is going on with this lady.
- [08:34]
Larry Birkhead
I have to be honest, I'm glad she was that year, because what it did for me was I got my first byline, and it. To other people, you know, it's like, okay, whatever. But to me, it was enough to energize the spark of me to say, hey, this is something cool that I want to do. So I kind of parlayed that into trying to get into this big derby party. It's. It's happens every year. And I would see it on television. It's the Barnstable Brown Gala, and it's like a diabetes fundraiser. And to me, growing up, it was almost like getting a ticket to the Wonka Chocolate Factory.
- [09:06]
Anna
Right.
- [09:06]
Larry Birkhead
Because on the news, they always. Yeah, they show these gates, and you don't know what's going on behind it, but everybody's talking about it, but you can't get in.
- [09:14]
Anna
Right.
- [09:15]
Larry Birkhead
So I was like, that was the only celebrity stuff that was happening, because when the derby happens, a lot of the celebrities Come in and stuff. And that's really if you're going to be an entertainment news, you know, area, that's like where it's at. So I had called before, you know, to this hostess of this party and ask if I could cover it prior to me getting my picture that year. And I got hung up on like every year, like, you know, buzz off, you know, you know. Yeah. And so basically after that byline came out and I thought, you know, I was bigger than, you know, anybody going. I took.
- [09:49]
Anna
You put a little wind in your sail.
- [09:51]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. I went over there and I had it laminated and I dropped it off on the front porch. And then I went around the corner and got on my cell phone was probably like this big, you know, like the bag phones and stuff. And I was like, hey, you know, it's like me, I, you know, I got my name in the, it was USA Today, was my first ever article, first ever byline.
- [10:08]
Anna
So to me that was a, that's awesome though.
- [10:11]
Larry Birkhead
Well, and I, I, I only because a lot of people have to work their way to get to there. For me it was just kind of being in that right spot because when I called the Ed, they're like, okay, we want this. Don't give it to anybody else. And so that particular, just that happenstance moment got me into that party and I worked my way through that party every year. And I was kind of like the go to guy for all like the weekly magazines and the celebrity things and the newspapers. And I actually had it to where and I don't even know how I did it, but I would always be covering for like three or four magazines, two newspapers, you know, and, and everybody wanted their own exclusive. So I was like. But I wasn't really like a paparazzi. Like, I didn't stand in like, like weight, you know.
- [10:55]
Anna
So that was, that was going to be my next question. Was it more like paparazzi? But you were interested in the journalism side of it, which I think is awesome because I love journalism and I feel like journalism is such a dying art, especially now with social media. So I think that's really cool.
- [11:08]
Larry Birkhead
Well, I started out, you know, the, even though the photograph was one of my first things along with a little byline or whatever, I remember after that I started, you know, doing the written reports. So I would go on like, I went on tour with like different music artists. They, they would assign me to like the Lilith Fair with the Dixie Chicks and all that. Remember all that.
- [11:32]
Anna
That was like, what a time to be Alive.
- [11:34]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [11:34]
Anna
Like, it was awesome.
- [11:35]
Larry Birkhead
And then they, I got on this. They stuck me on this Ricky Martin thing where everybody was like going crazy about, you know, it was like the whole living la vida loco thing.
- [11:45]
Anna
Give it, Give us some Ricky Martin tea.
- [11:47]
Larry Birkhead
Well, you know, honestly, the thing with Ricky Martin, I mean, I mean, he was always really cool to me. They always let me go backstage. I had really good access and stuff. The thing that happened to me is I wrote an article and after like the 15th concert, I was like, you know, what else can I say? But, you know, you know, when your editor is telling you what to do, you're like, you know, hey, I've got to do this. So I remember it was around Christmas and I had. I think I was all the way up in like, Columbus or something, and there's a Christmas show and there was a one. There's a lot of stuff that happened. I don't think that anything was like, oh my God, crazy. But it was like I was like saying, okay, here's what happened to the editors. And, and I turned my story in. Well, they took everything that I wrote. And then one little sentence that I wrote that was said that a male dancer gave Ricky a kiss on the cheek. So that was the headline and ran. So then I started getting calls from like, Ricky's publicist, and she was like saying, you know, oh, he's, you know what, he's. What's going on? You know, it's like. So, I mean, I don't want to get into like, too much because this really wasn't, it wasn't my, as far as like, the intention. It wasn't my intention. And then I was at the, the mercy of like a newspaper. But like, after that, I, I, because of, I understood where they were coming from of like, you know, why did this happen? When there was this and this and I kind of changed my focus, I was like. And I had a couple run ins. I can't name the name, but I had a celebrity run in that I had where I had to stand up for the truth of what, you know, my interview was. And that led to me just getting kind of a sour taste in my mouth about like, the written part of
- [13:25]
Anna
it, especially back then, because, I mean, we have clickbait now, but it's nothing like it was back then. And you know, the early 2000s, where the paparazzi and the Inquirer and like, all those tabloids were just insane. They were looking, they were like vultures. They would literally. I've had so many guests Celebrity guests sit on the couch and talk about how, you know, back then they would pretty much blackmail people.
- [13:51]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [13:52]
Anna
And say, you either have to do this interview with us or we're gonna run our version of what we care to tell the world.
- [13:58]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, yeah, it's. But they, I mean, there's always, you know, I guess after those stories and things, and it wasn't specific, like, about any one artist. I just kind of felt like it was a need to kind of transition to photographs because I felt like the photographs. They're not going to edit my photographs. I mean, they could, but they're, they're, you know, they speak for themselves.
- [14:24]
Anna
And they didn't have AI back then, so they couldn't, like, record it.
- [14:28]
Larry Birkhead
That's how ancient I am. But, like, you know, same.
- [14:32]
Anna
We share the same birthday, which I love.
- [14:34]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [14:34]
Anna
I love that you're born January 22nd, because I don't meet very many people
- [14:38]
Larry Birkhead
who are born on January 2, the same day.
- [14:40]
Anna
Yeah.
- [14:41]
Larry Birkhead
You know, and Anna's son Daniel was born the same day.
- [14:43]
Anna
I do know that. I do know that. We'll talk about that in a little bit. I went and visited their graves in the Bahamas whenever I went there. Yeah, it was, I've always been a huge Anna fan. So moving on from that, what. What was your most fa. Besides, you know, meeting Anna Nicole, of course. But who was your favorite celebrity to work with and who was your least favorite, if you can tell us.
- [15:04]
Larry Birkhead
You know, I, honestly, I, I don't know if it's just because I, I try to be nice to everybody, and that's just. I was brought up in a way, you know, you know, open doors for, you know, people and help people across. Not to be cliche, gentlemen. Yeah, well, thank you. But I, I, I never really didn't have a whole lot of beef with people. I, I will say that one of the sweetest people that I actually met way back before all my craziness and then had. And then I wouldn't say met again, but they didn't really remember me again. But we developed a great relationship. And Danny Lim was really, just loved. This person was Loretta Lynn. Oh, just the sweetest.
- [15:44]
Anna
That's amazing.
- [15:46]
Larry Birkhead
And Danny Lynn actually looked up to her like she was a grandmother, you know, type figure. And we can talk about it later with the absence of, you know, Anna's mom being a, that grandmother type. But, but, yeah, so that was one of the nicest, I would say. But I, like, I had went on tour with, like, Tina Turner concerts and a lot of different that is so cool.
- [16:07]
Anna
Like, no, not many people can say that. Like, you went on tour with Tina Turner. Like, that's amazing. How was she as a. As a human?
- [16:15]
Larry Birkhead
I mean, she was nice. I honestly didn't spend a ton of time with her. It was just to be in the presence of someone, that's.
- [16:22]
Anna
Yeah. To even see a show from her, like, that's amazing.
- [16:25]
Larry Birkhead
But I, like, I kept finding myself in these weird situations, like, would be sent from one job to the next. And I was kind of on a row and it did a lot for my self confidence because I wasn't really a big. I wasn't always confident about myself and I. I was this always like the lanky kid in school that was like, you know, like stuffing my shirts with like fake muscles or something or a double layer the clothes, you know. So for. To me it was like, you know, it did a lot for me, you know, myself and my confidence for all that. But I. I just kept moving into something else. I remember like one time I was out in la and I don't know how this happened, but I was covering. There was a reporter that canceled for what a major news organization and I did the red carpet for them and I was backstage when Halle Berry won her award for the best actress or whatever for Monster. Yeah.
- [17:17]
Anna
Yeah.
- [17:18]
Larry Birkhead
And it's weird because she came, I guess she did some press on a different area that I wasn't at. She came back off the stage and she ran off the stage and I was like happy for her. I'd never met her in my life. And I opened my arms and like she was like, oh, my God. And like she hugged me and then it was like a good probably 10 seconds and she started going like this,
- [17:37]
Anna
like, she's like, all right, enough, buddy.
- [17:41]
Larry Birkhead
Who are you? Yeah, because it was like, like the reality sit in is like, I don't know this guy and. But you know, it's like.
- [17:46]
Anna
But you guys were both so caught up at the moment. Like, what a sweet moment.
- [17:49]
Larry Birkhead
I was happy for her. It's. You know, I'm sure she probably doesn't remember, but it was like to me, it was like just. I just kept finding myself in weird spots.
- [17:57]
Anna
Yeah, well, you were meant to be there for a reason. Even though you might not know why, you still were meant to be there for a reason. She needed that hug.
- [18:04]
Larry Birkhead
I. But after that, I went on and I continued to do the derby beat every year. And that's when. In 2000, I'd say 2002, it started getting really crazy. There were a lot of, like, crazy celebrity happenings. There was a time when Pam Anderson came. She was dating Kid Rock at the time to this, the Barnstable Brown Gala. It was like this real chaotic and, like, celebrities go. That's like a backdoor backyard bash, but like a really cool gala. And it's like, for diabetes. So people are doing a good thing, but also having a great time. And it's like, so Pam Anderson's there. It's a new relationship with Kid Rock, and, you know, and I guess the. A lot of the media started spinning things from the night into different tales.
- [18:49]
Anna
Wow.
- [18:50]
Larry Birkhead
And like.
- [18:50]
Anna
They do.
- [18:51]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And it was like by the end of the time when it was done, she was on the ground licking, like, some bald head. Fans head or it was, you know, and then all of this stuff came into.
- [19:00]
Anna
Did that happen?
- [19:01]
Larry Birkhead
Well, there were some crazy things that happened. It was a year, like when Anne Heche, the actress, was there and, you know, and like, there was a lot of, like, crazy things. And I. You know, I don't want to say every single thing, but I'll say that out of that. Some of the stuff that was reported.
- [19:15]
Anna
Yeah.
- [19:15]
Larry Birkhead
That whole thing got caught up in Pam Anderson, I think in Tommy Lee's divorce or something. It was going on at the time, and it was going back and forth and. And. And I don't know. Or some divorce case she was in.
- [19:26]
Anna
Right.
- [19:26]
Larry Birkhead
And so basically it was like, news. So the following year, you know, it was 2003, and I was back on the same beat again, and all these celebrities were announced of who was coming. And one of the celebrities was Anna Nicole Smith. And I was going down the list of the celebrities with my editors, and they're like, okay, good, good, good, good. You know, and they were like, telling me what we want me doing. They're like, okay, Anna Nicole's coming. Don't leave her site. And I was like, okay, all right. Yeah, whatever, you know, and so.
- [20:00]
Anna
Okay, pause right there. Were you a fan of Anna before meeting her? I mean, I think she's like, every guy's fantasy.
- [20:08]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. You know, I mean, obviously, like, you know, posters, you know, when she was, you know, when doing guests and stuff and all that. I had that. And. And, you know, I seen her in the magazines probably long before, you know, like, I should be, you know, like, going through magazines in my dad's room and stuff.
- [20:26]
Anna
Yeah. But, like, I mean, I did, too, but she was hot.
- [20:29]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. So, yeah, I knew of her, but I also knew of, like, the headlines, the things that people had said about her.
- [20:35]
Anna
Right.
- [20:36]
Larry Birkhead
So I, you know, had even been in that industry.
- [20:39]
Anna
Like you still believed headlines because you knew how they worked.
- [20:43]
Larry Birkhead
Well, I really don't. I don't know that I believe them. I'm, I'm always like, open to like, you know, finding out for myself.
- [20:49]
Anna
Gotcha.
- [20:49]
Larry Birkhead
But I was, you know, look, I mean, it's, it's.
- [20:51]
Anna
We're human, so. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna judge.
- [20:54]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. But at the same time, you know, like, it was, it was. Went during the, the. Her reality show.
- [21:02]
Anna
Oh, okay.
- [21:03]
Larry Birkhead
So basically she was in the middle of shooting reality show. The same year Jessica Simpson was there. She was shooting her reality show. I think Janet Jackson and latoya Jackson hadn't seen each other in years or whatever. They were together. It was like all these weird things were happening.
- [21:16]
Anna
I feel like it was such a cool time back then. Like, we don't have that anymore. Yeah, there's no organic. Like celebrities don't talk anymore. They've learned their lessons because of that era, so.
- [21:26]
Larry Birkhead
But it's, it's. It was weird though, that, that, that night just seemed a little bit weird. But I will say, you know, Anna was doing her thing. She was, you know, you know, when they shoot reality scenes, it seemed like somebody was kind of telling them, you're going to do this, you're going to do this, or whatever.
- [21:39]
Anna
And.
- [21:40]
Larry Birkhead
And totally was. She was busy. I kind of took note of her, took pictures.
- [21:44]
Anna
How'd you feel the first time you saw her?
- [21:47]
Larry Birkhead
I honestly thought, you know, that she was extremely pretty. I thought she was now, and I don't mean this in any different way, but, you know, Anna's weight had gone up and down. This was when she was at her heaviest. And I looked at her and I thought, wow, you know, people were making fun of her in the press about her weight and stuff. And I still thought I was like, say what you want, but this is like, she's beautiful.
- [22:08]
Anna
Yeah.
- [22:09]
Larry Birkhead
You know, and. And so I. There wasn't a lot of interaction then because I feel like with. As far as between the two of us, but there was a time when I went over and I just introduced myself or whatever and she gave me a kiss on the cheek. And it was, it wound up somehow making it into her reality show episode. That, that. And so my friends were calling me saying, hey, dude, I saw you on Anna Nicole's Law. So I didn't think anything of it. And, you know, I went about my life, my business or whatever and got some great pictures that year, but the next year was. It was 2004.
- [22:42]
Anna
I've been in full home refresh mode lately because my house went from feeling cozy to feeling a little chaotic. Stuff everywhere, no real storage, nothing matching. So I went on Wayfair and actually took the time to find pieces that worked for my space. My style is kind of modern, cozy and a little eclectic. And I love that you can filter by size, color, price and reviews so you're not scrolling forever. Before, my entryway was just a drop zone for bags and shoes. Now I have a console table with storage baskets underneath and it actually looks put together when you walk in. I also grabbed closet organizers and lighter bedding for spring and it honestly changed how the whole house feels more functional, less stressful. The reviews helped me know exactly what I was getting. Shipping was fast and for one of the bigger pieces I used the assembly option so I didn't have to deal with it. It's just an easy way to upgrade your home so it looks better and actually works for your day to day life. Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A Y-F-A-I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. And Doug.
- [23:59]
Larry Birkhead
There's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.
- [24:07]
Anna
Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?
- [24:11]
Larry Birkhead
Oh no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.
- [24:18]
Anna
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.
- [24:19]
Larry Birkhead
Anyways, only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Literally. Because the derby is always the same day. The first Saturday in May, you know, so. And this is parties always on Friday. I was literally standing in the same spot that I was a year before that and probably pretty much every year prior. But an Anna Nicole was placed at the same table. And she gets out of this bus first though, this big bus pulls up and I'm like, what the hell is going on? And it's like, like people were screaming and stuff. It was like the Beatles had arrived or something. And it was like, what's happening? And all of a sudden you see this big black bus go down the side with Anna's face on it and it said trim Spa.
- [25:00]
Anna
You know, that was our trim spa era. Yeah, baby.
- [25:05]
Larry Birkhead
So you know, and for those that don't know, I guess is a. It's a diet pill that Anna was endorsing. So that was the era of diet
- [25:12]
Anna
pills, because I was on diet pills then, too.
- [25:15]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. Yeah. But the door to the bus opened up and I saw, like, this diamond ring fly out and, like, T shirts started flying. Like, she was throwing T shirts off. And, like, I'm like, what is she doing? It's like she started hitting the ground running with doing promo. Like, basically she was throwing trim spa T shirts out to everybody.
- [25:33]
Anna
I feel like she was really good at promoting herself.
- [25:36]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [25:36]
Anna
And like it says in the documentary, which we'll start talking about in a little bit, she. As soon as the cameras were on her, she came alive.
- [25:44]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. It was a different. It was. It was almost like a light switch. Like, you know, I think of. I was thinking about it earlier, and I was thinking what the. The transition of that. But. Which we could talk about. But yeah. So T shirts were flying and people were screaming and. And. And there were a lot of celebrities there, and. And all heads turned when she got off that bus.
- [26:09]
Anna
Mm.
- [26:10]
Larry Birkhead
She had on this black dress. It was like, low cut with these rhinestones. And she had, you know, her hair was all up like jewelry, just flashing. Every time I took a picture, it was flashing all over the. You know, it was like. It was like. It was kind of like an aura, you know, like when she moved through the crowd.
- [26:26]
Anna
Yeah.
- [26:26]
Larry Birkhead
And people were like. But I mean, I was still in the mode because I had a job to do. I had, like, several jobs to do. So I was like, I really wasn't, like, reading too much into it other than, like, that. Wow. But also the transition of the year prior to that.
- [26:41]
Anna
Right.
- [26:42]
Larry Birkhead
She had and lost all of that weight, you know, and now she's this diet pill spokesperson. But she's still. People are still talking about her even more. She is, like, just literally reinvented herself.
- [26:53]
Anna
Just polarizing.
- [26:55]
Larry Birkhead
And also, like, when I saw her in 2004, I thought she was. It was very distinctively different than she was in her guest days, but it was a total different kind of beautiful. It was just. It was weird. It was almost like a different person,
- [27:11]
Anna
but a different era.
- [27:13]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And. And, But I also think she was exuding something like some different energy, you know, like, if you believe in, like, energy and.
- [27:20]
Anna
Of course. Yeah.
- [27:21]
Larry Birkhead
And I, I. It wasn't like, oh, hi, nice to meet you. When I talk to her, it was like, you know, she was bubbly and she was. And actually, after the fact video kind of came out of this, and it. So it exists of actually the time in 2004 where she actually turns to her attorney who was on our reality show, and. Yeah. And she says, who's that? And he says, oh, that's Larry. And she's like, who? And it's really loud in there. And he goes, larry. And she goes. And then she still didn't hear him. So she asked again in this video, and Howard says, who cares? You know, you've had such a great year. And he was, like, pumping her up for, like, her, you know, that was his part of his job, you know. But it was weird that she was going out a way to ask. And I was like, well, after I've seen that since. But at the moment, I still didn't think anything about it, you know. So she had this table all set up and everybody, you know, booze is flowing and everything's going and people are having a good time. And, you know, Kid Rock was on the stage, and, like, there's all these performances. People just get up and start jamming for no reason. And so she was all into the performance and stuff, but she was watching me take pictures of her, and she was a master at not being obvious, but giving me the poses and stuff that she thought that I needed.
- [28:41]
Anna
Right.
- [28:42]
Larry Birkhead
So it was kind of cool because I'm like, okay. She gets this because it's like we
- [28:45]
Anna
were having a photo shoot, but she's flirting with you.
- [28:47]
Larry Birkhead
Well, you know, honestly, I like, it goes back to confidence again, I guess. You know, I didn't, I didn't think
- [28:54]
Anna
you had a chance with Anna Nicole.
- [28:55]
Larry Birkhead
Never in a million years, I would, I ever, ever in my mind think that, like, I literally, in fact, I was so embarrassed because, like, she handed me a drink or something off this table, and I don't know what I was drinking, but I. And so I was drinking on the job, which was probably dangerous, taking pictures and whatever.
- [29:10]
Anna
Sorry, you don't work for them anymore.
- [29:11]
Larry Birkhead
Oh, yeah, you do.
- [29:12]
Anna
You still work for them, you know.
- [29:13]
Larry Birkhead
Well, I don't, but I, I'm my own boss. But like, at the same time, like, I, you know, you know, that's gone.
- [29:19]
Anna
It was a different era, a different
- [29:21]
Larry Birkhead
time, you know, drinking on the job. But, yeah, so I, I, I picked the drink up and. And it's in this video too, and I, like, literally drink. And I don't drink much, so it didn't. It's like heavy bourbon or something, like. And I almost spit it out. But I, When I Look at my reaction on the video that I've seen now I look like, you know, Don Knotts on Three's Company. It's like, you know, like some bubbling fool or something. And like, I don't know what it was, but she laughed.
- [29:45]
Anna
And women do love men that make them laugh. That's what I loved about my husband.
- [29:49]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And I mean, so something about that moment, I, I guess I, I got another kiss, that this was a little bit different than the first peck on the cheek or whatever, you know. And I said to her, I said, you know, I'm going to be taking pictures tomorrow and I just wanted you to know that I'll be around so I'm not going to bother you or whatever. And, and whatever. And I got this call from Anna's attorney who said, Howard, who said, Anna's going to be down in the gift shop shopping for her derby hat and some things if you want to, you know, take pictures. Like. Yeah, yeah, you know, so my editors I knew would eat it up. So I was like, got down there and I got there and she was wearing this tank top that said Anna Nicole on it. And she. I'm sorry. Sorry about that.
- [30:41]
Anna
It's okay.
- [30:44]
Larry Birkhead
It's too early to start.
- [30:45]
Anna
No, it's okay. I couldn't imagine how you feel inside,
- [30:50]
Larry Birkhead
but I, I, I, it's, it's weird because I see that in my head, the photograph that I took of that. Because my brain thinks like a photographer. So I think in my mind when I think about these things, I see the pictures that I took. So anyway, so we're gonna.
- [31:12]
Anna
No, you're okay. This is a complete safe space.
- [31:15]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [31:15]
Anna
Trust me. We'll be crying with you by the end of this interview, I promise. Mimi's already crying.
- [31:23]
Larry Birkhead
But anyway, so she super bubbly, like, you know, and, you know, and she was walking around this hatch store or whatever, it was kind of like a pop up shop or whatever you call it. And she, she said, what do you think about this hat? What do you think about this hat? We went through the aisle and stuff and, and like, and she got to this one hat and she tried it on. And I had already seen her reality show, so I knew pink was her favorite color. And so the hat that she had asked me my opinion on was pink. And I said, that's it. She put it on. I was like, that's it. You know, because like, it looked great on her. And she had not, she wasn't dressed ready for the derby yet, but she just had her jeans and A tank top and stuff on. So took some photos, didn't think much of it. And I got ready for the big derby race that next day and that same day, actually a couple hours later. And you know, kind of Kim Cattrall from Sex and the City was there and I was trying to get a picture of her and you know, and she. I was like, can I get a picture? You know, I don't go up and stalk people and say, so let's talk to their publicist and stuff and tell them who I'm working for and stuff. And she's like. And Kim Cattrall turned to me and she's like, are you any good? And like, like Samantha, you know, like, you know, she said it just like that. I was like, oh, wow.
- [32:39]
Anna
I. I picture Kim. Kim Cattrall being how Samantha is and I feel that's very true to life.
- [32:44]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And it was like I, it was like kind of surreal and I was like, like, you know, and then Jessica Simpson was there and you know, she wasn't near as friendly as Anna and she was tied up with. I guess she was married to Nick Lachey at the time and they were doing that newlyweds or whatever. And so I, I was kind of just observing the room or whatever and. And then it was weird. It was like the sea parted and I looked down this, this hallway and it was like a moment out of like Baywatch. No, you know, where they're on the beach. Or maybe it was just in my mind or whatever, but I saw that hat come. Come. I. I saw it come down the aisle way and I was like, there, there she is. I was like, wow. You know, and I didn't see her outfit yet, but we were. She was getting closer to me or whatever and people were just like mobbing her and stuff. And she stopped and I literally got my camera out and I zoomed in to see like, you know, what I could see and. Because I had forgotten what my job was after I saw.
- [33:57]
Anna
I mean, I would too, I would do. If I saw Anna Nicole coming towards me.
- [34:01]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And so anyway, so she came closer and she had on this pink in kind of like low cut dress and these gloves. And she looked kind of like a debutante, like, you know, like her big head and she was playing, you know, the part. And I. It was just not to overplay it or kind of overemphasize it because I've said it before, like the previous night, the energy was different.
- [34:26]
Anna
Right.
- [34:26]
Larry Birkhead
It was like. It was like she was just kind of like, it was just, like, rolling off of her good aura, you know, and people wanted just to be. And I mean, like, it was.
- [34:35]
Anna
The stars were aligning for you guys, that perfect storm. And then also, she was on momentum from all the, you know, stuff that she was doing.
- [34:45]
Larry Birkhead
But she. You know, she. She was still shooting her show at the time, and I think maybe her show, possibly the series could have ended, but she was shooting specials, and so this was part of a special that was rolled into, like, her makeover special. She went up and cussed out the disc jockey, Howard Stern in the same episode, and then she comes to the derby, you know, so.
- [35:10]
Anna
Yeah. Just so we can. For people who are listening when we talk about her attorney, Howard K. Stern. It is not Howard Stern the disc jockey.
- [35:18]
Larry Birkhead
No, not at all. And Howard Stern the disc jockey will be quick to tell you that it's not me.
- [35:23]
Anna
Yeah.
- [35:23]
Larry Birkhead
He's like, no, no, no.
- [35:24]
Anna
I'll actually see him on Tuesday or Monday. I'm sitting down for an interview with him, so I'm excited.
- [35:29]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. So I lost my thought.
- [35:33]
Anna
So you were talking about how the sea parted, and she just had this energy exuding off of her.
- [35:38]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. So she. It was just weird. Like, people autographs, pictures, and she never said no, not to one person. So it took her forever to get down this hallway where she was. And then there was. There were rows of tables, and she sat down at this table, and I had. There were some seats that were missing. I really wasn't supposed to be sitting down, but I was talking to people, and I was tired. So eventually, after she made her way and there was all this hubbub, and, you know, Kid Rock was on one side yelling at her about her cameras. Turn off your effing cameras. And she was yelling back, and he's like, your bodyguard's overdressed. And he's. She's like. And she's like, you know, screaming back at him. And they got into it, but it
- [36:24]
Anna
was good to see old Bob hasn't changed.
- [36:27]
Larry Birkhead
But it's. It's weird. But it was making good stuff for her TV show.
- [36:31]
Anna
Right.
- [36:32]
Larry Birkhead
And along with. Just crazy stuff was happening. She was getting up, and by that time, she started having a few drinks.
- [36:37]
Anna
Right.
- [36:38]
Larry Birkhead
And there were tequila trays coming and all this stuff. I looked over at one point, and, like, some girl was, like, doing a shot off of her chest.
- [36:45]
Anna
Yeah.
- [36:46]
Larry Birkhead
You know, like. And of course, I got a picture of that, too, you know, and it just so happened to be. And. But during all that, she. I spoke to her Again. And I was sitting at the table behind her. She had her back turned to me. Her son Daniel was there. They was kind of neat to watch, the two of them. And they were. You know, she was helping him pick horses and things and to bet on and. And just a lot of chaos and noise. And she reaches behind the table, and she grabs my. She puts her hand out, and she's got this gigantic, like, diamond rock on these overtop, these pink gloves. And she's like, you know, and it was, like, blinding me. And she's, like, grabbing my hand. She goes, come here. Come here. And I got up, and she got up, and then she starts squeezing on my butt. And I'm like. My face turned beet red because when I looked up, I had three reality show cameras pointed at me, Right?
- [37:43]
Anna
And, I mean, she was in the crack.
- [37:45]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, yeah.
- [37:45]
Anna
I've seen the video.
- [37:46]
Larry Birkhead
Oh, have you seen it?
- [37:48]
Anna
I've seen the video. Like, yeah. It's like how I wish Jay would let me rub his butt. All right. I mean, she was groping you.
- [37:57]
Larry Birkhead
My. Actually, my daughter saw that, and she said it was cringe. Yeah. But, yeah, so I. I said something stupid, like, there's nothing back there to grab or anything I could think of, just because I was, like, so embarrassed, you know? And so she was just having fun. And, you know, at the time, I said. I said, last year you were here, and you gave me a kiss on my cheek or something. I don't. Something stupid, I said. And I go, my girlfriend wiped it off because she was mad. She goes, oh, come here. We'll do it again. She goes, I need a picture of this. And she turns and she tells people to take the pictures of us, you know, and so she starts kissing me and, like. And her bodyguard's sitting there, you know, like this. He's got, like, one of those Janet Jackson headsets on, and he's like, was it mo?
- [38:42]
Anna
Did she have mo at the time?
- [38:43]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And that's a whole nother thing, but yeah. Yeah. So he was there, and, like, you know, and I was like. I was like. I wasn't worried about anything, but I was like. At the same time, I'm like, I did have a job to do, you know?
- [38:54]
Anna
Right. I mean, but you're literally getting grossed and just immersed in Anna Nicole, so, I mean, at that time, I can understand why you wouldn't want to do your job.
- [39:03]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, it was. It was definitely a. A different day at work that day.
- [39:07]
Anna
But did you have the same girlfriend at this time?
- [39:10]
Larry Birkhead
No.
- [39:10]
Anna
Okay.
- [39:11]
Larry Birkhead
No. And. And didn't mean I didn't call her and tell her that I got another kiss.
- [39:16]
Anna
Yeah, just turn. Just twist it a little bit more.
- [39:20]
Larry Birkhead
That kiss sheet wiped off last year. I got another one. I got more this year than that one. But, no, but, like, so after that, you know that my pictures came out. It was like another. I wrote another article for USA Today, different magazines and stuff.
- [39:33]
Anna
Well, wait, how does that night end? She's rubbing your butt.
- [39:36]
Larry Birkhead
Well, honestly, so again, I was. It was weird because I. I am so. I'm so shy when it comes to, like that. I'm not like, I'm really an introvert. Never in a million years would I think I have the courage to even talk to an. I wasn't really gonna ask her on a date or anything, but in a way I kind of did. I was like, hey, so some. And this is all captured on video. I was embarrassed about it later when I see it, you know, today, because I was so cheesy.
- [40:01]
Anna
You were shooting your shot, baby.
- [40:02]
Larry Birkhead
And I was like, you know, hey, some friends are going down to whatever club and you know, do you. If you think you want to go. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but it was kind of like I didn't. I didn't want to, like, be pushy. I didn't know, like, what was going on. I really, you know, like I said, confidence wise. I didn't read a bunch into it. And I was like, okay, another night that was fun. That was cool. And I didn't know, you know, if I would ever see her again and.
- [40:26]
Anna
So were you hoping that you saw her again and did you want something more out of that?
- [40:32]
Larry Birkhead
Honestly, like, I. Yeah, it's Anna Nicole, you know.
- [40:35]
Anna
Right.
- [40:35]
Larry Birkhead
But. But again, I still. Because I was watching her, like, you know, have some girls doing shots off of her with tequila and some guys
- [40:42]
Anna
work in a room. Yeah.
- [40:44]
Larry Birkhead
I feel like I was just one of the people that got lucky to be in that kind of orbit, you know, and it was like a fun type of thing. It doesn't mean like, like I still remember it, like, wow. And I was like, taken back by it. But I. I don't know that I still. With everything considered of how she was acting with everybody, that it. It was like a. Anything special.
- [41:02]
Anna
Right. Right. You know, you didn't feel.
- [41:04]
Larry Birkhead
So I.
- [41:04]
Anna
That goes back to your confidence, though.
- [41:06]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. I mean, what do you say? I'm working on it. I'm working on it. We'll talk about it. Yeah. But at the same time, I Like, the pictures came out from that and, like, you know, and it was positive stuff for Anna, like, you know, how great she looked and it. And I think her attorney saw it, took note of it, and I got a call from him and said, hey, Anna's going to be at this kids camp for charity for kids that are impacted by hiv, and would you mind coming and taking pictures? And I was like, sure. You know, and I literally.
- [41:43]
Anna
Do you think that was Anna having him call you?
- [41:46]
Larry Birkhead
I don't know, honestly. I know. I don't really know. I know that his job was, amongst many things, you know, her attorney, you know, he kind of was her publicist manager. Everything was to kind of keep things going for her. And I think because she had always gotten a negative. Not always, but a lot of the times got negative press.
- [42:04]
Anna
Right. And so what you were doing for her was giving her positive.
- [42:07]
Larry Birkhead
I. I want to think that's probably why I got the call. And so, like, I literally started throwing things in my bag, you know, when I got the calls, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. And, you know, took off to Nebraska and met the whole crew. And she had an entourage there. Her assistant was there, her son was there, her dogs were there. She's back on the bus again. She had some other people there, you know, floating around. And I. I was watching her that week because it wasn't like the. The diamonds, all the makeup. It was really like a stripped down
- [42:41]
Anna
version of her, which I think was the most beautiful version of her.
- [42:44]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, it really was. It was like. I was like, wow, when I saw her with no makeup on, I was like, how can you get prettier? You know? Yeah, it happens. It's like, you know, I don't mean that any down a disrespectful way.
- [42:57]
Anna
No, I get it. I'm the complete opposite. I look like a walrus when I don't have my face painted on. No, she. Anna was like, I'm telling you, when she didn't have makeup on, she was so gorgeous.
- [43:06]
Larry Birkhead
It was just. It was kind of refreshing to see because we were kind of in the stick somewhere. I went through cornfields, like, for hours just to get wherever I was. And all these kids were like, you know. You know, around this circle, and she was meeting these kids, and I don't even know if any of the kids actually knew who she was, you know, because they were so young or whatever. And I think by the end, they all knew who she was because there was just a ton of hijinks that happened. But, like. But Watching her in those moments spend time with these kids, and she started getting attached to, like, a lot of these kids, and she, she would want to spend time and. And she would get contact numbers for them and stuff. And it was just such a different type of Anna. If I were writing that story, which I did write something about it, and I took, Took pictures and we were there for like a week. It was, it was kind of like, you would never think that that was a headline that would come out from Anna, like, her spending time with these kids and stuff. And it was. I really. That was when, like, not just the derby and how pretty and like kissing and groping. Whatever happened with that, it was that moment that I started feeling like, okay, this is.
- [44:16]
Anna
She's.
- [44:17]
Larry Birkhead
There's something special about her, you know.
- [44:19]
Anna
So tell me about that week personally, work aside.
- [44:23]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [44:24]
Anna
Was she happy to see you when you showed up to. When she first saw you and knew that you were there to take pictures? How would, how did she react?
- [44:30]
Larry Birkhead
She. She was really nice. I mean, I didn't know, you know, if she would remember me. I, like, I, you know, I didn't know, you know, like, I honestly, like, when you're, when you see the volume amount of people that, like, she interacts with, I'm sure you guys get my husband.
- [44:43]
Anna
She's a Sagittarius. She was a Sagittarius, right? I believe.
- [44:48]
Larry Birkhead
December, November 20th.
- [44:50]
Anna
Yeah, she's a Sagittarius. My husband's a Sagittarius. They remember everybody's names. They are people. I mean, it is crazy. I, I call my husband a politician. He's not really a politician, but I. He's like the way that he shakes hands and kisses babies all day long and like, will remember people from 10 years ago. It's wild. And Anna strikes me as the same type. Like, she might not remember people's names, but she just always just makes people feel so welcome.
- [45:18]
Larry Birkhead
Everybody felt like they knew her.
- [45:19]
Anna
Exactly.
- [45:20]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And she was relatable. And I think that's what people gravitated towards her. Not just because she was pretty, but also, I think because she was warm. She was, she was. But during that week at camp, I mean, I, you know, I don't know if it's just, you know, the way I'm wired or whatever. I, I literally a. Was focused on my job, but also I was excited to see her, you know, at the same time. And to be completely honest, like, you know, I'm, you know, at the time, I'm. I'm making good money but like, I know I'm gonna make good money off of this, you know, this is not. I'm not, you know, the pictures are, you know, I already had like, exclusive job.
- [45:57]
Anna
Yeah.
- [45:58]
Larry Birkhead
It's what I do.
- [45:59]
Anna
You know, you're like, you're kind of like becoming her personal photographer in this moment.
- [46:03]
Larry Birkhead
It started. It start. It started to feel like that, you know, after this event, during that event and after that event, it started to feel like that. But I, I just remember just kind of like playing it cool, you know, and. Because again, she was. She was also shooting a special, Anna Goes to Camp.
- [46:22]
Anna
Right.
- [46:22]
Larry Birkhead
So, you know, and there was, there were story lines that were kind of like. I don't know if they were preset, but they were in the works and they were. I didn't want to be in the way of it.
- [46:31]
Anna
Were you also ever scared that you would become a storyline with her too? Was that kind of why you were guarded?
- [46:37]
Larry Birkhead
No, you know, the. Not really. But the first day in journalism school, they tell you, don't, you know, don't become the story. You know, don't, don't. It's hard when you cross that line, you know, So I was trying to be like. Because I was still doing written work on her at that time.
- [46:52]
Anna
Right.
- [46:53]
Larry Birkhead
And, you know, flirting aside or whatever, like, I had a story to write. It wasn't like I was doing this hard hitting, like, 60 minutes piece. It was a, you know, fluff story for a weekly magazine.
- [47:03]
Anna
Right.
- [47:03]
Larry Birkhead
But I still wanted to stay, you know, like, you know, neutral and, and kind of just observe.
- [47:08]
Anna
Yeah.
- [47:08]
Larry Birkhead
And. And so basically that's what I did. But I, I remember after the week progressed and there were activities and stuff, she started asking me to do the activities with them. And so, like, I put my camera back down and I would like to start repelling and I'd start, you know. You know, they had like a day where they would do a talent contest and she was Whitney Houston and she was like, she had this white dress on. She was going to be like in the Bodyguard. And then her bodyguard comes in and rushes and saves her. And then the camp told her her dress was too, you know, too low cut. And there was a whole thing for the reality show that kind of played into that. But so there was a lot of stuff going on and I just kind of tried to stay out of the way. But since she invited me into that space and she's like, why don't you come in? And even though they were filming, I. I was hesitant, shy. I didn't like, go out of my way to, like, start talking to the camp, you know, and. And make myself a presence in it. I just. Just, you know, it was, like, kind of cool hanging out and doing stuff. And we got to the last night of the camp and it started to wind down. They had activities and they re. They reflect on, like, how the camp changed you. And it was really. It was a. For me, Anna, aside, it was like a really kind of moving week to see the kids and how they. It was either kids that were. That had HIV or were impacted by it in some way. And to have them in a setting where they felt safe and to watch, you know, Anna interact with them and how she was doing, it was a weird. It was a. It was a cool thing. And I think in my mind, she got points because I thought, whatever you've heard about this girl previously, you know, this is. This is a little bit different than what you've heard, you know? You know, Anna always was the gold digger. You know, we'd always hear things, like, out of control, train wreck things. This was so far from that.
- [48:57]
Anna
Right. Was she sober during these trips that you were on?
- [49:02]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, I mean, aside from, like. Well, up to this point, yeah. She. I mean, I'd only seen her, like, a few times, but the camp stone cold's over.
- [49:11]
Anna
Okay.
- [49:12]
Larry Birkhead
And, like, there was no drinking allowed at the camp. I mean, she was like. I mean, she was digging in, doing art and painting and, like, I mean, and it was enough to. You could see it was kind of exhausting her. Like, she worked herself up, up. Even though she was filming and doing something, I felt like she still. It was just special. It's hard to explain, but after that, we left. We went to a retirement center and where she started just talking to all these, like, the old people in the retirement center. And she brought her dogs and was to pass them around and. And that part wasn't filmed, so it wasn't like this was a setup for something. It was like some just random moment, you know, and. And I just remember watching her going, wow. You know, like, this is something different and something cool. And I was getting my stuff together because they were getting ready to get on the bus, and she was in her room, and I came into her room and she was dipping lollipops and pickle juice.
- [50:11]
Anna
Oh.
- [50:11]
Larry Birkhead
And like. And I go, what are you doing? She goes, having some pickle pops. I go, what? She goes, pickle pops? I'm like, okay. Sound like, never heard of that. She goes, why don't you? And I'M like, all right. And, you know, so I was trying one, and her attorney's buzzing around, and, like, people are trying to get all of her assistants trying to pack her stuff up. Dogs are barking, and. And she's signing some autographs for people to give to them before she leaves as, you know, kind of a parting thing. And, you know, and I was like, eating this pickle juice something or whatever. How.
- [50:43]
Anna
And how did it taste?
- [50:44]
Larry Birkhead
You know, that at first wasn't great, but then she. She decided she wanted to play a game with the pickle pops. So she put her pickle pop in her mouth, and she told me to twist it in my mouth. So we were playing, like, spin the bottle with a lollipop. So it was just like. She was kind of a kid at heart.
- [51:02]
Anna
You know, she's very childlike.
- [51:04]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And. And out of that, the pop dropped. And then, of course, there was some. A couple more kisses and stuff. And then, you know, I was get. And then I got a couple little bad looks over my shoulder from, you know, like, you know, the entourage. Like, oh, my God, what is, you know, that guy doing? Get him out of here or whatever. And so I didn't want to wear my welcome out. And I was like, you know, thank you so much for this opportunity, and I appreciate it. And I'm, you know, I'm going to turn this stuff in, and I think you'll like it. I. What you did with this week was great. And. And she was leaving, and she goes, here, let me write you one of these. And she wrote to Larry, and I was, like, trying to figure out what she. Right. And I was like. And she hands me this. It's like her. An 8 by 10, like, glossy promo shot of her trim spa stuff with, like, a. She's like, basically shirtless with a towel holding up to her. And, like. And I read it, and it says, to Larry, my pickly pop. And I'm like, P, I, C, K, L, A. It's like it was spelled wrong. It's like. And it was like. I was like, all right. And then below that, it said, love, Anna Nicole. And I was like. I was like, oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I'm like, I'm gonna put that in my room. And, you know, it's like, still embarrassed and not know what to say. And it was like, we were, like, 18 years old.
- [52:27]
Anna
Yeah.
- [52:28]
Larry Birkhead
Like, that's how we were maneuvering through this, you know. And so basically, she gives me this, and I. And I said, well, you know, hope to Hear from you sometime. And if there's anything else coming up, up. She goes, oh, hold on a second. And she sticks the Sharpie and she starts writing these numbers down. She wrote her number on the, the picture. And I was like, what's that? And she's like, I was trying to play dumb. I was like, what's that? And she's like, my number. And I'm like, oh, I'm sure it's the wrong number. She goes, we'll call it, dummy. So I called it and of course it's ringing right there. And so she's like. And she goes, well, now I got your number, huh? And so like. And I was like, yeah. And again, you know, I went home, did my thing, my story came out.
- [53:06]
Anna
Okay, hold on though. So you're what, you walk out of this room, you have Anna Nicole's number. How are you feeling in that moment?
- [53:14]
Larry Birkhead
You know, honestly, I, it. The whole week was so kind of crazy and, and emotional with the kids and, you know, and it was, it was a contrast from the derby, which was crazy. And this was kind of like low key, but like, still things were going on and I, I don't know, I, I might be just dumb. I just, I was, I did. I still thought it was cool. Yeah. And I, I thought I liked this girl, you know, but you weren't sending
- [53:41]
Anna
any, you up text at 2 8, 8, 2 o' clock in the morning?
- [53:45]
Larry Birkhead
No, because honestly, I, it, I, I went home and I, I was scared to call it because I thought maybe she just kind of felt guilty about, and gave me the number. You know, I feel, I, I just feel like I wasn't entitled to it, you know, And I still felt like part of me was like, not that I was working for her, but I had just done this story and things and I was like, this is, I was in my head thinking, you know, that my journalism teacher was talking, saying, you know, blah, blah, don't blur the lines.
- [54:10]
Anna
Yeah.
- [54:11]
Larry Birkhead
So anyways, it was, it was fine. But I, I left, I went home and I was literally a little ways down the road and I get this call from Anna and she's like, do you want to go out to California and, and work on some calendars and some photos for me? I want to jumpstart my store. And I'm like, sure, you know, when. And she's like, right now. So literally, I winded up going straight from there. I said, well, I said, listen, I've got to go home, but I definitely want to do this. And I went home And I said, can you give me. When will you guys be in town? And she's like, well, it'll take us a few days to get there with the bus went home. She calls and she's like, well, there's something is come up. I need you to go to Vegas. So I wound up getting rerouted to Vegas. There she had a party out there. And after all that, I wound up going back to her house from all that. And so it was like a. It was like this whirlwind thing that I didn't know what was happening, to be honest.
- [55:16]
Anna
So let's pause right there because I want to ask a couple questions. Being around her crew and seeing how they all interacted and stuff like that, what was the vibe that you got from, like, Howard K. Stern and just her crew that she had around. Around her, did it feel like they were very enabling? Did it feel like they were controlling? Or at this point in time in the story, was it kind of, like
- [55:42]
Larry Birkhead
copacetic, you know, still at this time? It was kind of so early that I. I was, you know, I. I was kind of getting used to what the hierarchy was.
- [55:54]
Anna
Right.
- [55:55]
Larry Birkhead
And. And. And knowing that, like, who did what and what was expected of this person. I think that. I don't know that the beginning that I got the idea that anybody was controlling her, I think that people were. A lot of people were telling her things like, yes. Answers to everything.
- [56:17]
Anna
Right.
- [56:17]
Larry Birkhead
Like, you know, yes men and, you know, oh, you know, should I do this job? Yes. You know, this is going to be great for your career. Do this.
- [56:24]
Anna
Yeah.
- [56:24]
Larry Birkhead
And it was, like, a lot of advice that she was getting from people. There was also, like, you know, a lot of people jockeying for her attention.
- [56:33]
Anna
Right.
- [56:33]
Larry Birkhead
You know, all the time. And everybody, honestly, that that was around her, I felt like, had a different interest.
- [56:40]
Anna
Right.
- [56:41]
Larry Birkhead
You know, somebody is.
- [56:42]
Anna
Yeah, somebody. It was just different ulterior motives all around.
- [56:45]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And I don't. And I don't mean that always really, in a negative way. Like, somebody could be, like, in love with her or obsessed with her, or they could be in a. And. Or just dedicated to her.
- [56:56]
Anna
Right.
- [56:56]
Larry Birkhead
You know, but she had people at her beck and call.
- [56:59]
Anna
Do you feel like Howard K. Stern was one of the people who was obsessed with her and in love with her?
- [57:07]
Larry Birkhead
At first, I didn't think that, because I knew what she told me about him, but it wasn't until I didn't get a feel for any of this stuff, like, in detail, where I started making, like, mental notes of, like, what people's agendas were, what they thought about different things. Until I actually came to her house with her. She said, come on. And I brought some of my stuff out. I did. I still had a place back home. I didn't, like, get rid of my stuff. I wasn't moving in. I was just coming out there to work on the calendar.
- [57:40]
Anna
So this was the first night that you guys had spent together? The first paused.
- [57:43]
Larry Birkhead
The first time that we were in. In Los Angeles and together? Yeah.
- [57:49]
Anna
Take me on that journey the first night you guys are together, and then we'll kind of intertwine it with what you learned by being in her house.
- [57:56]
Larry Birkhead
Well, the first backing up in that. That trip in Vegas was one of the first times that we were together. Together. I had actually, you know, the fastest version of it is. Is that I actually.
- [58:06]
Anna
We don't want the fastest version, Larry. We do not want the fastest version.
- [58:11]
Larry Birkhead
So actually, I was to get ready to go to that trip that put me to Vegas to meet her. I actually fell in the bathroom, and I, like, hurt my back in Kentucky, and I didn't think I was going to make it.
- [58:21]
Anna
Oh, no.
- [58:22]
Larry Birkhead
I was literally getting ready to cancel the trip.
- [58:25]
Anna
How did you fall in the bathroom?
- [58:26]
Larry Birkhead
I was running into the bathroom, slid in some water or something and just fell down straight on my back and crashed. And I was like, okay, this is. It's over, Larry, poor baby.
- [58:36]
Anna
You're just having a rough go over here.
- [58:38]
Larry Birkhead
So I. I got. I was like, I'm gonna cancel. No, I'm gonna try to do this. So I got on the plane, I went. I get to the hotel in Vegas. They were at the Hard Rock in Vegas. And I. I let her assistant know that I'm there. Come up to this room or whatever. I was told I gotta. You know, I'm having a suitcase or whatever. And I get there and I go down this hallway, and it's like this gigantic suite or whatever. And I get to the back room, and Anna's in this bed. She's in the bed watching, like, Nightmare on Elm street or something. You know, it's like. It was like a scary movie. She's like, oh, hi. And, like, literally, because I see things, like, from a photography standpoint, she. That she was in a totally white bed with white sheets, pillows and everything. And all you saw was her face, like, in all of that. So in my mind, I was framing up a shot, but I. I remember it clearly because I was like, you know, and. And without thinking for a millisecond, I'M like, well, I'm in Anna Nicole's bedroom, like, where she's at that. And she saw me kind of walking away with my suitcase. And she's like, what's wrong? I go, I'm sorry. I'm like, I. I hurt my back. And. Oh, you know, she's like, can we get something for him for his back? And I don't know. They gave me. So I don't know what it was, but I. I conked out for, like. Well, I was getting sleepy.
- [60:04]
Anna
Oh, so they just handed you a pill and you were like, yeah, but
- [60:07]
Larry Birkhead
I think it was. I don't think it was, like, anything, like, major. Like, I. I don't know really what. It. Really remember what it was. But, like, like, anyway, I was like, go get him something for his back. And I'm like. She's like, let me call him. Massage the masseuse up here for you or whatever. And I was like, what's going on right now? I'm like, where am I supposed to put. Like, can I take this to my room first? She goes, oh, just sit it over here. And I go, where? She goes by the bed. And I was like, oh, okay. So I was like, I put my suitcase down. The next thing I know, someone's knocking at the door. There's, like, this lady coming to give me a massage. I'm like, like, trying to figure out, like, she's like, well, just. Just take your clothes off and come in here. And I'm like. So I'm, like, going back in the room, and I'm like. I go, okay. And I'm like. I'm like.
- [60:48]
Anna
You notice Larry doesn't say no to anything. He's, like, not questioning anything. He's like, you know what? We're just gonna go with it.
- [60:58]
Larry Birkhead
So I literally. I was literally gonna take my pants off, and I was. I paused for a second.
- [61:04]
Anna
I turned around.
- [61:04]
Larry Birkhead
I'm like, like, oh, there she is in the bed. She's like, it's okay. I like small penises. You can take your pants. I was like, what?
- [61:11]
Anna
I was like, sounds like a challenge to me.
- [61:13]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:14]
Anna
She wanted to challenge you. She sounds like she was a ball buster.
- [61:17]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And so after that, massaged over, whatever. And, like, I literally conked out, went to sleep, and I woke up, it was like, the next morning, Anna's still watching Freddy Krueger movies.
- [61:26]
Anna
Okay. Who passes out in bed next to Anna Nicole?
- [61:30]
Larry Birkhead
I don't know if it's some. That's what I'm saying. Like, say, I Don't know if it was something that I. When I took it, I passed out, right?
- [61:36]
Anna
Or you were just so exhausted from the travel.
- [61:39]
Larry Birkhead
Like, I literally couldn't move my back. Like, literally, if she wanted to do anything, I would probably be like. Like, it was probably better. Like, nothing happened that.
- [61:48]
Anna
How did the back feel in the morning?
- [61:49]
Larry Birkhead
It was. I was actually feeling better, but I had problems with it for a while. So after that happened, they were.
- [61:55]
Anna
She was still watching when I woke
- [61:57]
Larry Birkhead
up, she was still watching Freddy Krueger. And, like, it was like. I think she was on, like, the third or fourth trilogy or something. Like the movie or something.
- [62:03]
Anna
Wow.
- [62:04]
Larry Birkhead
So, yeah. And she's like, how's your back feel? And I was like. I was like, where the fuck am I? Like, where am I? Like, I feel like I was in a dream or something. Like, I looked back and I'm like. But I. You know. And again, it was like, I love
- [62:20]
Anna
that she laid next to you, though, while you were sleeping.
- [62:23]
Larry Birkhead
And there was knocks at the door. It was really chaotic. It wasn't like. Even though we were in that room together, dogs were being handed to her. Your dog wants to see you. I'm like, what? Did they say that? Or did you. You know, and it was like. But, you know, and the people, here's your food. And, like, the dog room service were coming for the dog. And she's like, can you sign that bill for the dogs? And I'm like, looking at the thing. I'm like, 800 for, like, steaks for the dogs to. And, like, bottles of, like, special water and stuff. And I'm like, I felt like I was in, like. Like I fell down like a rabbit hole or something.
- [62:55]
Anna
Like, I didn't know that. Yeah.
- [62:56]
Larry Birkhead
Like an acid trip. Yeah. And so anyway, like, you know, she. She had an event to do. I photographed that. She. We. We. That's when she asked me, like, hey, do you want to come back to the house? And so I went back to the house.
- [63:10]
Anna
So when you woke up, did you guys make out? Was there any hanky panky? Like, when was the first.
- [63:15]
Larry Birkhead
Not really, because after she woke up that morning, they were. That's when, like, people knocking on door. People were coming in for fittings. There were people doing her hair, makeup, you know, and all that stuff. And I really kind of felt like when her assistant and some people came back in the. In the room, I was like. I felt like I just got a different feeling. Like, I don't know if they want me to be here.
- [63:41]
Anna
Right.
- [63:42]
Larry Birkhead
So I Don't know that I. So I was trying to, like, be respectful that she had a job to do. At the same time, like, you know, I'm just stupid me. I'm like, okay, you know, know, let's move on to the next stuff.
- [63:55]
Anna
Right?
- [63:55]
Larry Birkhead
Nothing really crazy happened until, like, she's like, you do want to go back to my house? And I'm like, sure. And so
- [64:04]
Anna
Larry's got long game.
- [64:06]
Larry Birkhead
We got. Not actually, No, I don't. That's why this is so. This, like, I'm.
- [64:10]
Anna
I'm totally playing.
- [64:11]
Larry Birkhead
I think part of my life has been from even going back to, like, breaking into journalism, just being in that right spot.
- [64:20]
Anna
Yeah.
- [64:20]
Larry Birkhead
Some people might say I was in the wrong spot.
- [64:22]
Anna
No, but I think your intentions are pure, and that's why you end up in these situations, because you don't have an evil spirit about it. Like, you really just want to love people and, you know, show them in a good light. You're not trying to show these people in a negative light. And I think that, you know, God in the universe has placed you in these people's lives for a reason.
- [64:43]
Larry Birkhead
Thank you. I appreciate that. I. But I'm still, you know, like, I'm. I'm. We took the bus back, and this
- [64:50]
Anna
is still in California, right? Or is it.
- [64:51]
Larry Birkhead
We're in Vegas, and we're going back on this bus.
- [64:53]
Anna
Gotcha.
- [64:54]
Larry Birkhead
And this trim spa bus and stuff. And so it has all these bunks in it, you know, side to side and, you know, and there's, like, a room in the back. And I grabbed one of the lower bunks, and they said, you can take that one or whatever.
- [65:08]
Anna
And not the low bunk on the.
- [65:10]
Larry Birkhead
It wasn't the low.
- [65:11]
Anna
It was okay.
- [65:12]
Larry Birkhead
I mean, that's probably where I deserve to be, because I was like, the low man on the totem pole as far as, like, the group.
- [65:17]
Anna
I was like, they did you wrong if they put you on the bottom bunk.
- [65:20]
Larry Birkhead
I was kind of like. I remember I was up, like, in the middle, and then I. Anna was getting her stuff, and of course, she was always being briefed on stuff. Like, tomorrow we're doing this, tomorrow we're doing that. Like, people are coming in. And I was kind of, like, trying to stay out of it and stuff. And again, I still felt like I didn't earn my place on the bus. I don't know if that's just.
- [65:37]
Anna
No, I get it. I understand that.
- [65:39]
Larry Birkhead
And I, I, I, I was kind of like. I remember closing the curtains, and I was like, like, trying to, like, I was watching a movie in front of me that was on the bus, and. And finally I was like, what's going on here? Like, I still was in kind of disbelief that this was happening.
- [65:54]
Anna
Yeah.
- [65:55]
Larry Birkhead
But I wasn't, like. Because I'd been. And I'd covered celebrities and stuff, I never had this situation. I think it helped me, like, deal with what I was. I wasn't like, oh, my God, you know.
- [66:05]
Anna
Yeah.
- [66:06]
Larry Birkhead
So it was like, I was real kind of cool. Probably not as cool as I was, you know, trying to act, but. But, you know, I woke up in the middle of the night and the bus is all jumping and stuff. And, you know, and I open my curtain and I look across, and Anna's in one of the bunks across the way. And I'm like, wait, I thought, you know, she stays in the back, you know, and she's watching a movie and stuff, and she's like. She just starts talking to me and stuff. And I was like, in the middle of a text and stuff, and she's like, who you texting? And I'm like, oh, just back home to tell, you know, this girl to watch my stuff. What's she got, girlfriend? What's her name? You know, what's. She was, like, getting involved in my story, and I was like, oh, no, not really. She's just a friend, you know, watching my apartment while I'm gone. And, you know, and she's like, oh, cool. Okay. You know. But I could tell she was kind of like, you know, it was kind of weird, you know, feeling you out. Yeah, I think. And I was like. So I was like, you know, we were just talking and stuff and had, like, talk about. We were, like, talking over, like, stuff from, like, you know, childhood and different things. Not. Not deep stuff. It was kind of like surfacey stuff, like. Like, you know, and I didn't really ask her too much about her stuff. She was kind of asking me, you know, about my family and different things. And I was, like, telling her and just, like, little conversation and, you know, that happened. Nothing really major. We get to la and she lived in Studio City, and the bus wouldn't go up her hill or canyon or where she lived. And so we stopped in this parking lot, and I remember getting out of that bus and thinking, are they gonna blindfold me now? Like, and not where. I don't know where I'm going to, like, the bat cave or, you know, like, you know, and it was.
- [67:42]
Anna
Was.
- [67:42]
Larry Birkhead
I had that weird, just kind of like, you know, feeling.
- [67:45]
Anna
I saw It. When you walked in here, you're very suspicious. Like, you, like, you like to know what you're walking into.
- [67:51]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, yeah. I, I, well, part of it's probably PTSD and like, stuff from, like, just crazy stuff happening from my situation. But yeah, I do like to kind of like. And I'm always scanning when my daughter's with me. Like, I, like a security guard. Like, I scan around.
- [68:08]
Anna
Oh, you have to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [68:10]
Larry Birkhead
And I know the people that want to take pictures. I know the people. It's where I think, because I'm add, But I'm also. I feel like I'm a little bit semi intuitive because they say people that are add, you know, they have heightened, you know, senses awareness. And I feel like that I read the room a lot and I can tell BS when I see it. Oh, yeah. I can tell all the liars. I, I know. I mean, I know. And, and so I do. I kind of scan ahead, but I, I was in this moment, I was still kind of like the new kid on the block, you know, and feeling like I didn't deserve to be there
- [68:44]
Anna
and still kind of wondering why you are there too. I'm sure.
- [68:48]
Larry Birkhead
I mean, I, you know, I, I had planned on going home. It didn't happen. So, you know, I'm. Now I'm in, In Los Angeles at Anna's house. And so we get into the house and, And I'm. I'm thinking, I've seen this house on the reality show. I, I, you know, and we were. We would sit back on, you know, Sundays or whenever it came on, and we would laugh at it, you know, the show, and we would hear some of the crazy shit she did and, you know, and like, and, you know, and, and it was, you know, it was just like, you saw it on television, but there were actually, it's like the studios, there's like, working lights still set up, up. So, like, if you go under, like a catwalk and then there's like strips of light and there's cords and different stuff. So, like, you kind of felt like you walked onto a hot set, but you were like, in her house.
- [69:36]
Anna
Right.
- [69:36]
Larry Birkhead
You know, and, and I was like, okay, this is different, but whatever. And who am I to say anything, you know? And we were up in this canyon, I remember. And I remember thinking, I mean, this is nice. This is a cool house. And, you know, whatever. And I was nervous still, like, you know, and I. Cause it was kind of like when the door opened for me to come in, everybody's demeanor dropped. You know, not Anna's, but everybody else. I felt like the mood was flat, and I was like, okay. And then Anna was telling her assistant, go do this, get Larry, show Larry this, and whatever. So Anna's room is upstairs.
- [70:16]
Anna
Just to pause you right there. Do you think they did it because they were jealous of Anna's attention going to you?
- [70:23]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. Honestly, at that point, I, I didn't know. I knew that. And I'm friends now, and we can talk about that later with all these people, but I, in that moment, I felt like they might have felt like they were threatened because I was getting the attention from her that they wanted.
- [70:40]
Anna
Right, exactly.
- [70:41]
Larry Birkhead
And, and I felt like that maybe it was just awkward, you know, you're the new guy.
- [70:48]
Anna
So they were probably, you know, like, like, you know, what, what's going on with the situation.
- [70:52]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [70:52]
Anna
Trying to figure you out.
- [70:53]
Larry Birkhead
So I, I, I, I remember taking my suitcase and I was going upstairs, and there's three, two, an office and two bedrooms upstairs. Downstairs was Daniel's room, the lowest level, and a art room. And they kind of showed me around or whatever. So I'm looking around at the time that they're showing me going, well, where the am I going to sleep? You know, like, going, thinking, you know, like, like, you know, I don't see a bedroom that's open. Yeah. And I'm like, my back's still up, and I don't know about the couch, but I'm like, I guess I do what I, I have, I'm told to do, you know.
- [71:24]
Anna
Right.
- [71:25]
Larry Birkhead
So I, I get upstairs with her and she, she shows me, you know, this, this is my room. This is us. And I, you know, and we've. Did you watch her show?
- [71:34]
Anna
Of course.
- [71:35]
Larry Birkhead
Okay, so remember when she had the big, the pink and white fluffy wall? And I think, you know, a decorator did it for the show and stuff, so. And there was like, clouds on the ceiling with penises in the clouds and like, all this weird stuff.
- [71:50]
Anna
Yeah.
- [71:50]
Larry Birkhead
And then there's this gigantic pop art painting of, like, her oil husband on one side. And there's like all this stuff. Dogs are barking, yapping, you know, and stuff just hung everywhere. Clothes and, and real chaotic time, you know, when we first entered there. And I was like, like, she's like, you could put your stuff in the office. And I was like, okay, I'm going to the office. She goes, but, you know, but you can stay in here. And I go, well, first I went in and I said, is, is there, like a thing I can put on the floor for. There's like. Because there's a desk in there, right? It wasn't that big. And my, my suitcase was in there. But she also had extra clothes in there, too. There was clothes everywhere, like, racks and racks and ring. So I was like, okay, maybe this is where I'm going to stay, so I want to be respectful. And I was like, you know, I was like, you know, is there something I put on the floor for. No. And Anna said, no, you're going to stay in here with me. I was like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah, okay. And, yeah, so I, that's where I went. And so she was territorial about her closet. And I guess a lot of women, you know, I was like, I get it. So my, my stuff was put in one room, but I was allowed to stay in her room with her. And so I, you know, it was one of those things where I, I, you know, I still was kind of a little bit disbelief. And I was honestly nervous, to be honest, because if you think about Anna Nicole and like, everything she was and, and, you know, and seeing her all this time and not like that I was, like, obsessed with her, like, growing up or what. I knew, I was aware of her and I thought she was like this, this beautiful, just like Pam Anderson, all these other women just like her. And I, but I, I, I don't know that I didn't, I still, I don't even know. You might think I'm the dumbest person in the world. I still honestly thought she wanted to hang out. And I, I know she was being flirty and I'm not stupid, but, like, at the same time, I didn't want to, I didn't know her enough to know where she was coming from.
- [73:55]
Anna
Right.
- [73:55]
Larry Birkhead
You know, I'm not stupid. I know, like, you get. You're invited to the bedroom, but, but also I was nervous. There were so many different emotions going on. I was trying to be like.
- [74:02]
Anna
And there's so much chaos, too.
- [74:04]
Larry Birkhead
So you're like, I was walking on eggshells, like, you know, in the house, kind of. Her dog was. Sugar pie, was like, snapping in my ankles and, like, attacking me. You know, it was like, you know, and, and, but anyway, so, like, things kind of settled in and, and we just started talking and, like, kind of like connecting and, and I learned a lot about her in, in those next few days, like, you know, and, but she still is forward as she was out in public and, like, grabbing on me and stuff. She didn't give the same vibe off where we were in that moment. So, like, it wasn't like I. I thought, well, maybe I've done something wrong. Or maybe I'm like, not like, maybe she doesn't like me. Maybe, you know, I don't know, you know, so. But she wanted to talk a lot and she wanted to sit up and, like, watch TV and, like, paint stuff and do, like, crafts and, like, it was really weird. And I'm like, okay, so I'm playing along. I'm like, you know, you're in bed
- [75:06]
Anna
doing arts and crafts.
- [75:10]
Larry Birkhead
I still have a stack of paintings to this day from that. But like, yeah, yeah, was just like, I. I felt like I was having fun. Like, she was almost kind of. Honestly, though, I feel like in that room, the oil man's picture, and there was one on the. On the dresser, and she started talking about him and she started getting emotional about it and to where I felt like there was something there that she hadn't let go of yet. Like, that she wasn't like, even interested in and anything else. For me, I thought, you know, she's saying. She's saying one thing, she might be doing another, but then you see this real emotion from her about, like, how she felt about this man.
- [75:55]
Anna
And we're talking about her ex husband. Yeah, she had already passed by then.
- [75:59]
Larry Birkhead
He had passed in the 90s, I believe. And he, you know, was this crazy, rich oil man. And then she was fighting forever, you know, for. For his estate to get what she said he promised her. And that was going on and on and on. And she had talked a little bit about that. I didn't get into too much because here's the problem. You know, when I first came to her house, she, you know, there was. There was. She was quick to let me know I was a member of the press. And that in her head, she couldn't get past that, in a sense. So she was kind of scared, a little skeptical. Like, I think she liked me. And she knew. She. She saw I had good qualities. I think. I don't know, but I think that she would. And maybe it was a jab or something. She's like, oh, yeah. She goes, you know, you're. You're a photographer, you're a reporter. I gotta be careful what I say around you. And I'm like, no, you don't. And it took me a while to get over that hump of building that trust up with her. And I saw things. A lot of crazy stuff. I witnessed stuff in the house that just. And I also was privy to things that weren't like as crazy, but things that I'm sure any magazine would print if I wanted to talk about it.
- [77:14]
Anna
Right.
- [77:15]
Larry Birkhead
You know, and I. And I felt like I would. It was a test I was having to pass or something.
- [77:20]
Anna
Right.
- [77:20]
Larry Birkhead
And I felt it's rightfully so on
- [77:22]
Anna
her part because, you know, she couldn't trust anybody.
- [77:25]
Larry Birkhead
Sure.
- [77:26]
Anna
Everybody was. And during that era was trying to just have a piece of her.
- [77:29]
Larry Birkhead
Well, and she had. She had gone to your point, she had gone, like, to hospitals and people had called and said, she's in the hospital. And then her medical chart was released. And then, you know, or she had, you know, stalker ex boyfriends who came to the. Her house with a knife and was gonna. So she had a lot of just crazy stuff happen. She also had a file folder in her house from different people that mailed crazy stuff. And then she'd give it to security and they would have to vet it. And so I. Look, she was extremely. I say paranoid, but also like, she. Some. Some rightfully so and some a little bit because of her situation made her a little bit more extreme, you know, on the side of paranoia or alert, I should say, you know, maybe both.
- [78:12]
Anna
Yeah. In those moments that you guys were having those private conversations, what do you. What is something that you could tell the world was the biggest misunderstanding about her because you've actually got to spend one on one time with her alone.
- [78:28]
Larry Birkhead
I think that. That in. In many ways that she was kind of misunderstood, you know, about so many things in her life because she projected this Persona of. Of Anna Nicole. And even though I called her Anna Nicole, I never called her any other name, you know, other than Anna Nicole. Her legal name was Vicki. And so I felt like I was getting to know Vicki, but it was, you know, it was Anna that was when she went out, you know, and as soon as the light came on, as soon as that last, you know, drop of lipstick went on, it was. It was, you know, it was almost like it was a different person, you know? Yeah, you know, it was. It was wild. But.
- [79:16]
Anna
Well, her idol, Marilyn Monroe was the same way. And I think a lot of women that grow up idolizing Marilyn, you know, you learn how to turn it on.
- [79:25]
Larry Birkhead
And I. I think when. What part of what Anna her in. In a way that she was misunderstood. I think her story is a survival story. You know, she was. She was always in survival mode. And I think that what she did with the time she was here on Earth is that she. She was a. She dreamed big, you know, she lived, you know, Fast and hard in so many ways. And. And. But at the same time, she built this wall around herself, and her outlet was to perform for these people, for everybody. And she told me once, she said, I gave myself to Hollywood. So she really believed that. That, you know, they had a lease on her life, and that basically that. That's why she signed every autograph. That's why she did what she did. But I think that this, you know, she was renamed Anna Nicole by the founder of Guess after she was in Playboy.
- [80:29]
Anna
Right.
- [80:30]
Larry Birkhead
So that name for her was another outlet to be somebody totally different, like an alter ego. It was. And I think that she went back and she was able to feel safe in that moment and get the things that she didn't get. She had a really fractured childhood, family relationship with all of her, you know, I won't say all, but a lot of her family, her mom, totally. Another crazy, you know, situation, which I
- [81:00]
Anna
would like to touch base on, especially when we start talking about the you don't know me documentary on Netflix that is an unauthorized documentary that you actually turned down.
- [81:12]
Larry Birkhead
Yes.
- [81:13]
Anna
And why did you turn that down?
- [81:15]
Larry Birkhead
Well, the thing about it is, with that, at the time, listen, I have. If I had a dollar for every time somebody called me and said, they're going to do a show about Anna Nicole and we participate, you know, like, you know, there would be no worries, you know, in life. But. But the problem is, is that I had sat back and watched, you know, time after time, people kind of do the same show over, Right. The same cast of characters. You know, they go back through talk show transcripts of that time when Anna passed. And that was a time when, like, a lot of different vultures came out and they were rewriting history, people's checks that dried up. They went out and they'd say this or that. One day they'd say one thing, you'd be the greatest person. The next day, you know, you'd be the worst person or, you know, whatever. And the stories kept changing and evolving, and nobody was, like, checking anything and vetting it.
- [82:04]
Anna
Nobody was doing real journalism.
- [82:06]
Larry Birkhead
No. And so what to me was it got a little bit.
- [82:10]
Anna
And you said that it was repetitive. People aren't vetting stories yet.
- [82:13]
Larry Birkhead
No, no. Nobody was really, you know, checking into anything like, you know, in a lot of these past projects. And I got tired of seeing the same people. And can we talk about some of
- [82:24]
Anna
the characters that were in here? You know, at the end, they do bring up her mom.
- [82:30]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [82:31]
Anna
And they do say, because you were just touching base on her mom. So I kind of want to rope that in. Her mom says something in this documentary where she pretty much is shooting down everything that Anna has ever said about her and saying that Anna said, well, mom, it's Hollywood. This is my life.
- [82:48]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [82:48]
Anna
When you talk to Anna about her relationship, what was her. With her mother? What was her side of things that she told you?
- [82:56]
Larry Birkhead
Well, that was one of the things that was a lot of the times early on in the relationship when I went to her house, you know, that was off limits that you didn't talk. She's like, no, no, I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about it. But it got to the point where when trust was built up and she started, you know, talking, you know, different things and disclosing things, she would tell me, like, some really crazy stories about her childhood and. And having to deal with her mom and things, and. And they were so crazy that I was like, you know, are these real stories or whatever? But I would see, like, the fear in her eyes and, like, the. The emotions that these. Just telling the stories would invoke, you know, in her. And so I. I didn't ever really push it too far on that. But she. When she brought it up, I would definitely, you know, listen and talk. But the stories about her mom, the fact that. Here's the thing with the Netflix to back up. So the problem with the Netflix show was after, you know, seeing a bunch and being disappointed in a lot of the different projects and stuff, they were. They came to me at a time when I was helping my mom through chemo and radiation, and they started coming on really strong and pitching, saying, hey, we'd like for you to do this. We'd like for you to do that and stuff. And I said, well, you know what? Right now, it's not really a great time for me, but I'll tell you what I'm gonna do for you. I said, I will tell you in a list, if you want to write down names or whatever, of who the good people are to talk to and who the bad people and who. Who really didn't play a part in her life, who's been on these other things, and that's why I'm leaning towards not doing this. And they were like, oh, oh, well, you know, and they got on the phone in a zoom call with this director, and. And they were giving me the pitch that this was gonna be a female director who would totally give Anna a totally different look about one of the most misunderstood, iconic women in pop culture history. And I was like, well, now you got my attention, you know, But I'm still dealing with this personal thing with my mom. And so I said, I just don't know if this is gonna fit right now. And then it was kind of like, well, we can help you with your mom's cancer. We can help you or one of our producers or whatever's connected to a doctor's and stuff, and they are big cancer specialists. And I was more worried about my mom at the time, so I was like, oh, my God, there's hope for my mom. You know, as I'm pushing her wheelchair, you know, through, you know, radiation stuff. And I'm like. And she ultimately passed away after this, but, like, during this, like, my focus was laser on her, and I was really juggling, you know, still being a dad and taking Dale into school and all these things and different things that I was doing for her and trying to keep everything normal there. So it was. It was a combination of things, of timing, the right people, and it's just that it just didn't work out. So then they started saying, how much would it cost for us to get you to do this? I. They knew I had a ton of archives that no one's ever seen.
- [85:41]
Anna
Right.
- [85:42]
Larry Birkhead
I had, like, all of Anna's journals that I discovered, I even discovered more recently. And it's like, they were like, wow, wow. And I had, like, videotapes, audio tapes, and, like, things that no one has ever heard or seen that would totally show a complete, like, legacy piece, which was what they were talking about.
- [85:58]
Anna
Right.
- [85:58]
Larry Birkhead
So when I actually said no, and they were playing higher and lower, what would it take for you to do this? And let me just be honest, like. Like, those things belong to Dannielyn. So if somebody wants to use those things, I'm not letting them use them without giving her something for them.
- [86:11]
Anna
Absolutely.
- [86:12]
Larry Birkhead
Because those are her things, and rightfully so. And so why does anybody get to use and think they could do that for nothing? So. But I didn't really get into negotiations with them. They said, okay, we're going to go back to Netflix. We're going to do this. We're going to do this, and we're going to come back to you. And I was like, okay. And I never called them, heard back from them or anything.
- [86:29]
Anna
Wow.
- [86:30]
Larry Birkhead
I think there was, like, a couple texts about, you know, they came back to me and said it was no longer, like, would you participate? It's. This director got on the phone. She's like, hello, love. It's, you know, so and so I'm want to come over for a spot of tea? And, you know, like, it was like, real chumming and stuff. And they were nice at first and stuff. But as I started pushing back and saying, I just don't think this is going to happen, it was weird. I started seeing on Facebook, social media, different things. A couple people that I had on the no list had posted the fact that they were going to be on the show. One person I didn't have on any list because they didn't really even know Anna that well. You know, I heard the name but. Or whatever, and I went back to the producers and said, this is the reason why I'm not doing your show. This is a clear, you know, here's the receipts. You know, these people are saying they're doing it. So they were like, oh, no, this person could talk about this and this person could talk about that. Well, the person. I said that person to know Anna, they're like, well, that person could speak to her reality show because they were on one episode. And I was like, okay, is that where we're going with a legacy piece?
- [87:37]
Anna
You know, that's a hit piece. That's not a legacy piece.
- [87:39]
Larry Birkhead
So I just, I. I sat back and I was like, okay, you know, and I went back into daily life with my mom and everything I do, you know, daily. And I was like, all right. So I guess over time, back and forth, there were a couple communications. I got a call from an auction company, which we did an early auction of. And so a few overflow things of Anna's and did some stuff with charity. And Anna actually had creditors, you know, when she passed away. So the court said, some of the stuff, why don't you just get rid of it and sell it? So we gave them some things that were like, you know, the Bobby trendy couches from the reality show, you know, some things. And a lot of fans got a lot of cool things. And it was kind of. It served, you know, a few purposes, but somebody in the production went to the auction company, was asking for how much was made off the auction, and it turned into like, they were investigating me, and I was like, what? You know, like, I didn't make anything, you know, like. And literally, like, I, you know, was disappointed.
- [88:34]
Anna
Felt gross, right?
- [88:35]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, it really feel gross because I remember I, like, I. I spent like $60,000 on a headstone for Ann in the Bahamas. You know, I think you said you went, yeah, like, I had that design in my hometown of Louisville. We flew it on FedEx over to the Bahamas, had a crane, had to lift it off of the truck down, you know, place it in place. And, you know, when Anna passed away, her house was in, her mortgage was behind. You know, we'll get to, like, the bomb stuff later, but, like, yeah, we'll
- [89:02]
Anna
get to all that.
- [89:02]
Larry Birkhead
They, they turned her back on stuff. And so, like, I walked into, like, a lot of stuff that, like, I had to pay for. So to hear someone say, like, you know, what is this? Or what is that? So they didn't really come out and accuse me of anything, But I was hearing from a lot of different people. Then the show actually hit a bump. That show was announced at one point, and then Pam Anderson's documentary was announced way after that. Yeah, well, like, you know, fast forward. Pam Anderson's show aired even though it was announced way after Anna's show. And I was hearing from people that they were having trouble getting people close to Anna to participate.
- [89:33]
Anna
Right.
- [89:34]
Larry Birkhead
So it was kind of like, you know, and so, you know, I didn't think anything else of it. I got a couple requests from that same director if I would license them photos of Anna and Daniel and the hospital that were circulated before in the press. And I said, if you can guarantee me that this is the show that you said it was gonna be when you pitched this to me, then I'll think about it. Yeah, let me know. What do you want?
- [90:02]
Anna
Yeah.
- [90:03]
Larry Birkhead
And I said, she goes, all right, love, have a think on it. I'll get back with you. And hung up. I knew then that this show was not gonna be the show that they had told me that the show was gonna be. So, I mean, with all that being said, I, I sat back, and then it's. They started running promos for it. And I saw some of those people that I said, this person shouldn't be this person. Not all of them, but most. Most. A lot of them there shouldn't have been, like, they had the sister of Howard, the attorney.
- [90:31]
Anna
That was going to be. My next question is, like, you know, how. There's so much that we still have to unpack, but, you know, how are they going to have his sister? Like, did he authorize that for her to go on there?
- [90:44]
Larry Birkhead
I mean, you know, I, I, I, I don't think so. He didn't really know that she was going to be on there, I think. You don't have to, I guess, because it's a documentary and people are free to do whatever and say whatever, I guess, but, like, the thing is, is that it was like an uncle that wasn't close a person, and they didn't tell that. Some of these people, like, the, the, the situations behind the, the scenes with these people.
- [91:07]
Anna
Right.
- [91:08]
Larry Birkhead
This person was estranged and hadn't seen her since, you know, whatever. This person, you know, met her a couple times. It was just kind of like people were given. They were elevated.
- [91:16]
Anna
Yeah.
- [91:16]
Larry Birkhead
And now when I started seeing all that come out, I was like, wow. And then I remember the show came out and I didn't really want my daughter to see it, and I was like. Because when I saw some of the people, I was like, okay, it's going to get. Probably get ugly, you know? You know, on here. And I was like. I remember sitting back and I watched it one night when she went to bed, and I, I, I was like, I, I was like, pretty much frozen. I was like, wow. When it got to different parts, Right. You know, and it was a, the show was kind of a slow burn. So I was like, sitting there going, okay, okay. And I, in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, selfishly, I'm like, okay, they're gonna get to me next. Or, you know, I'm coming. You know, like, it's going chronologically here, and so it's. Something's coming. But, like, the show. The problem that I had with the show was for two things. One is Anna's fans reach out to me all the time, and there's tons of them all over the place, and they still love her, and they hold her in high regards, and people know that she wasn't perfect. And they, they know why people love her, though. Yeah. And I think when people were literally, they're just waiting for a new photo that no one's ever seen, and they all fight over it on Instagram and they start watermarking, stamping. That's mine. That's mine. You know, and so, like, when this, this came out, people were like, oh, my God, there's this new Anna Nicole thing. This is going to be crazy. And, and, and they. Everybody had high hopes for it. But the problem was the two main problems that I had with the show was that they, they took the, the. They. They used the thought that there was a girl who danced with Anna in a, In a club.
- [92:56]
Anna
Missy, right? Was that her name? Yeah, that was going to be. My next question is she said that she was Anna's assistant, that she was in a sexual relationship with her.
- [93:05]
Larry Birkhead
And here's the thing that I've learned because I, you know, that I'M sure we'll get to later. But, like, I don't want to ever say that Anna didn't have a relationship with someone that predated me, because unless she told me otherwise or I have some kind of written proof or something in her archives, and there's a lot, you know, like in her journals and stuff, but I don't want to take that. That part away from that girl that said that.
- [93:28]
Anna
Right.
- [93:28]
Larry Birkhead
The problem that I had with what that girl said and that what the show was totally wrapped around and framed around was that Anna hijacked her life. Right. And took every story that was about this girl. The most, you know, crazy, nasty, tawdry things that you could think said her childhood.
- [93:45]
Anna
She said that Anna was stealing her childhood story, which I thought was really kind of crazy to say about somebody.
- [93:52]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. And I. And honestly, like, I. I was like, what? First off, I'm like, who's this girl? Because I've never heard Anna even, you know, she never mentioned her. Not that she would mention everybody from her past, but I know a lot of the people, you know, from her past. And. And I was like, okay, this is weird, you know, And I was watching as this whole show was framed around, you know, Anna supposedly hijacked this girl's life. And I'm like. It kind of made it sound like kind of like single white female movie, you know?
- [94:20]
Anna
Right.
- [94:21]
Larry Birkhead
And I'm like, to me, it was
- [94:22]
Anna
a bunch of people who were in love with her and obsessed with her, even her own family members.
- [94:26]
Larry Birkhead
Well, I mean that. It's interesting that you say that. I mean, I just. Because I'm like, why are these people getting a platform right for this show?
- [94:34]
Anna
And the brother didn't even seem like he knew anything about her.
- [94:38]
Larry Birkhead
Who's that?
- [94:38]
Anna
Her brother?
- [94:39]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. So, like, literally, I think, you know, I. I don't want to, like, what I'll say to this.
- [94:45]
Anna
Because you don't want to discredit.
- [94:47]
Larry Birkhead
Well, I don't want to discredit, but I also want to be sensitive because I know how it feels to be in the shoes of saying that you weren't in a relationship with, you know, Anna or you didn't do this. So I want to be sensitive to those people. But I will say to you that based on everything that we have in Anna's archives, it paints a totally different picture from what every one of these people are saying.
- [95:08]
Anna
Right.
- [95:08]
Larry Birkhead
And. And this. And this predates this girl, and it post dates this girl.
- [95:12]
Anna
Wow.
- [95:13]
Larry Birkhead
So if Anna was, you know, hijacking a story how can she hijack the story that she wrote years before she met you? You know, I have her stuff way back when. She's still Vicky.
- [95:21]
Anna
Yeah.
- [95:21]
Larry Birkhead
I have her school stuff when she was a kid, talking about her biggest dreams. I have all kinds of things that, like, if I were to have done the show with Netflix, that. That it would have been a totally different show. Not because I would have tried to, like, you know, manage it or whatever.
- [95:39]
Anna
Right. But she's written her own story.
- [95:42]
Larry Birkhead
She had. They had the opportunity for her to tell her story herself.
- [95:45]
Anna
Exactly.
- [95:45]
Larry Birkhead
You know, long after she passed. And it would have. It was such a unique story because whether it's Marilyn Monroe or Michael Jackson, all this stuff. And all those people left things behind. But the things that Anna left behind, because one, she was a hoarder, and two, she. She kept every single thing. I mean, like, I have.
- [96:02]
Anna
If you watch the reality show, you knew she was a hoarder. Yeah.
- [96:05]
Larry Birkhead
And I mean, and it's been my job to kind of be the curator of that stuff for my daughter all these years. And so basically, I. I've gone through it and I'm still finding stuff. I'll open up, like, a old purse. You know, Danny Lynn might say, dad, that's not in style, really. But I, you know, I, you know, I don't want to offend, you know, mom, you know, and I'm like, honey, it's whatever you want of this stuff, you know, like, so basically, like, of that stuff.
- [96:29]
Anna
Save it, though, because those vintage purses will come and she'll. Trust me, she'll want them later on in life.
- [96:34]
Larry Birkhead
Well, it's weird because five years ago, I asked her question, storage, and it was like, where's Daniel's Pokemon cards? Or, you know, like 10 years ago, you know, that's what she wanted, like, the video games and. Because his stuff's there too, you know.
- [96:44]
Anna
Yeah.
- [96:45]
Larry Birkhead
And.
- [96:46]
Anna
And we'll talk about how you inherited all of that stuff once we get to, you know.
- [96:50]
Larry Birkhead
But anyways, going back, like, to the Netflix and. And. And that the. The promotion of promised, like, these bombshell revelations. One of them was the girl Missy, who said that basically, you know, Anna hijacked my life. Life. The. And then they said. And then in the final fourth, you know, quarter of the show, we're gonna have the bombshell of them all that tells why Anna was the way she was. And that was a video of Anna's mom. And the video, like you said, it was like, basically Anna saying that she made everything up and that good stories don't sell as well as bad stories.
- [97:27]
Anna
Right.
- [97:27]
Larry Birkhead
Well, they left out a few things, you know, from that. That, you know, discussion in the. In the tapes and the promos of that. For starters, that video from her mom. Her mom had long passed since after that, her mom filmed that video in retaliation to Anna being upset that after Anna's son died, her mom came down to the Bahamas and did a bunch of photo ops in the Bahamas.
- [97:53]
Anna
I remember that.
- [97:54]
Larry Birkhead
And it made Anna furious. In fact, there's a whole, whole. There was a whole Entertainment Tonight video that have now been labeled the mommy dearest interviews that Anna comes out and she just tears into her mind and that's because. And she says, and you came down here and you laid your fat ass on my grave. And you know, and you know, I. I just think that that wasn't like the. The problem between them. There was long.
- [98:22]
Anna
There were long problems, long childhood trauma.
- [98:25]
Larry Birkhead
But when Anna. When Anna's mom, when Ann. When Anna's son Daniel passed away, Anna, you know, I wasn't around at the time, but I remember when Anna would open up about her family and we had those moments where I felt like it was safe for her and she felt like it was safe to talk to me about it. She would. Would long for her mother. And she. And I actually tried to play peacemaker and say, hey, why don't you call her? And she would just start shaking, you know, and it wasn't. It wasn't. That wasn't on the table. So I. I would go as far with it as I could. Because for me, like, I come in from the south and like we, you know, we get togethers. You know, everybody gets together on, you know, holidays things. And Anna, I felt like that was a part of her that was missing when I met her, her. That it was just like she was kind of on autopilot.
- [99:19]
Anna
Yeah. She was trying to create her own family around her.
- [99:22]
Larry Birkhead
She was collecting. Like I felt like I was a part of a collection, you know, like she pulled me into, like, you're going to be this. And you're, you know, like she had a role in her mind that everybody was.
- [99:32]
Anna
So in the documentary, they actually say that Anna had sought out. And this is going to tie back into you guys relationship that she had, was seeking a ba. A father. She wanted to get pregnant.
- [99:45]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [99:46]
Anna
When you guys, you know, are having these conversations and you guys are getting to know each other and we're on this journey. Did you guys talk about having a baby together?
- [99:55]
Larry Birkhead
Oh, sure. Sure. So obviously, like you Know, as things became intimate, like, you know, like, we're. I'm literally in a room every day, basically, you know, and we're literally a couple, but I can't tell anybody, you know, and, you know, and still having the tensions from the outside, you know, outside the room, really, you know, it basically, you know, we. We talked about having kids. Anna thought it was. Well, one of the first nights I was with her, she said to me, I. I think that you were sent here by my husband as an angel to protect me. And I don't know if it's the biggest pickup line in the world, you know, or. Or what. But then she was reduced to tears. And it was a time when, like, you know, you know, I'm pretty, you know, modest feel like it was time when, like, things could have, like, heated up in the bedroom, but it was like that stopped that moment because she's crying about her husband, right? So I'm like. It was one of those things that I had to deal with with, like, you know, like, you know, and. And, you know, it's like you're rolling around in the bed and you turn this way, you know, like, who. You know, like, you know, you, You. You look up and there's a pop art painting of, like, J. Howard Marshall. And you turn over the other way, you know, put your arm around her.
- [101:20]
Anna
That'll get anybody's lines quivering.
- [101:23]
Larry Birkhead
And like, you turn around and put your arm around her the other way, and you're knocking off, like, a picture of J. Howard Marshall on a wheelchair. You know, it's like, that's got lines, like, you know, this whole thing on her, like a. This tribute thing on our. Our nightstand.
- [101:34]
Anna
So do you think she genuinely loved him, like, romantically or. As a girl who was in the industry myself, I had love for men that took me out of terrible situations. And, like, you have a love and a respect for them that is never replaceable. And it's almost like a. I don't want to. It's kind of weird, but it's almost like a father's love that you never got. Do you think that's how it was for her and Mr. Marshall?
- [102:01]
Larry Birkhead
Honestly, there's so much, you know, like, that she said privately that I've got. We're working on some things that are coming up that, like, are going to come out of that. But I will say to this in. In general, like, basically that she, from what I thought about her relationship with him, is that. And I'm speaking about this from, like, my perspective, correct. I felt like that I was held to that standard of J. Howard Marshall. And I felt like that in some ways, not, not the ways that you might think, you know, or maybe so, but like she felt like that he was a saint and he got her, like you said, out of a situation. So it wasn't like, oh my God, I was lusting over this, you know, 90 year old man. It was like he helped me out of the way. Like, I don't know that like, and, and, and you, like. I feel like you can relate to this in so many ways because, you know, like when you, like you said your experiences and things that you've dealt with. But I think she was just trying to survive. And this guy comes along and can help you get out of all this stuff.
- [103:16]
Anna
He saved her.
- [103:17]
Larry Birkhead
You don't have to take your clothes off. You don't have to talk to these people. You don't have to do, do, you know, crazy dances, you know, and all this stuff. And you know, you're literally at, you know, Harry Winston's buying jewelry and all this other stuff. And this is a totally different thing for her. And she was getting attention, but she also felt like, I will say this, that she was serving a purpose for him because he had lost a previous wife that died and.
- [103:39]
Anna
Right. You know, she was bringing him happiness. It was an even trade.
- [103:42]
Larry Birkhead
And I, I think that it was a mutual thing. I think it was. It's one of the things, it's kind of. She got a lot of slack for every night talk shows and monologues for late night shows.
- [103:55]
Anna
I mean, that's. People do that to me.
- [103:56]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [103:57]
Anna
And my husband, you know, like I have been called a gold digger my whole life. I feel like that is what it's like a tale as old as time.
- [104:05]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [104:06]
Anna
And it's like it gives people something to talk about. And it's like a subject that everybody is like interested in for some reason.
- [104:12]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [104:13]
Anna
And that doesn't necessarily mean that's how she was or who she was.
- [104:16]
Larry Birkhead
Well, had I not like, listen, I had heard the rumors beforehand, in fact. I mean, this is like a. I told Anna this and she smacked us. But some friends. We were actually J. Howard Marshall in a wheelchair for Halloween and some girl was. And like we made fun of it.
- [104:31]
Anna
Right.
- [104:32]
Larry Birkhead
She's like, how dare you? You know, but she thought it was funny later and stuff. It was a joke, like because of the age difference, you know, I mean,
- [104:38]
Anna
people are still doing that Halloween costume
- [104:39]
Larry Birkhead
and means some singers are doing it. There was an album cover. You Know, and like, recently Danny Lynn showed me that. And, and, and so basically, like, had I not seen behind those doors in that room?
- [104:53]
Anna
Yeah.
- [104:53]
Larry Birkhead
You know, like, and I say that room in a way because it represented like, it was kind of like her
- [105:00]
Anna
place within her sanctuary, her safe space.
- [105:03]
Larry Birkhead
And I mean, she never hardly used the other parts of the house. It was like that's. That's where it was. I mean, like, I was, you know, I. And I winded up dating her for, like, two years. So that was where our time was spent.
- [105:15]
Anna
I think a lot of people don't even know that you guys were together for two years.
- [105:18]
Larry Birkhead
Well, and the reason is because the. The problem with that is, is when, When. When Anna always did interviews and you can find dozens of them out there, her big shtick was she was this available sex goddess, sex kitten that people would desired to be with. And so she. When she went out on a red carpet, that was what she projected. Like you would want to be with this woman, you know, if you could be with this woman. That was part of her image.
- [105:52]
Anna
Yeah, absolutely.
- [105:52]
Larry Birkhead
So she would, like, if she was on a. An interview. I mean, I. There's tons of them out there. I haven't had sex in years. I haven't, like, you know, I. Oh, my God, no. Guys asked me out. I've not, you know, I don't. No one goes on a date. You know, all that stuff. Stuff that was part of her thing.
- [106:08]
Anna
Yeah.
- [106:08]
Larry Birkhead
She said it just because she wanted to appear to be available.
- [106:12]
Anna
Right.
- [106:12]
Larry Birkhead
And. And for you to think that you could have a chance with Anna Nicole.
- [106:15]
Anna
Right.
- [106:16]
Larry Birkhead
You know?
- [106:16]
Anna
Yeah.
- [106:17]
Larry Birkhead
And so. But she also did not want. Because she had some weird situations and she had mistrust issues with people in a previous relationship. And then in, like, some stalker. He got a lot of press off of it. I will say this, and it took me a while to unravel this in my mind, that she did not want to share the spotlight that she was getting and that attention she was getting with anybody else because that was where she felt loved. And you're taking a piece of that love away when you take a piece of whatever way.
- [106:51]
Anna
Right.
- [106:51]
Larry Birkhead
So, you know that, you know, that's where I think that, you know, she was the way she was and that. What. What motivated that. But I might have got off track with what you asked me.
- [107:01]
Anna
No, you're good. So you guys being together for two years, you were around enough to start figuring out characters in her life. So I kind of have a bad taste in my mouth about Howard K. Stern. And it's only because I met Anna. I met her at the Palms. Yep. I met her at the Palms in Vegas. And I was walking, walking, and she grabbed me, and she's like, oh, my God, you're so beautiful. And, like, she asked me for Xanax, and. And I was like, yeah, I have Xanax. Of course. Besties, you know, And I get how we're trying to protect her, but he was just. His energy was so dark and so evil, and he literally put his arm out in between us because we were, like, this close together. Put his arm out in between us and. And pushed me and was like, anna. No. And, like, pushed me out of the way and, like, to the point where she was like, I'm so sorry. Like, she was apologizing for him.
- [107:59]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah. I mean, I've seen that. You know, I've seen him do that to different people in different events. But just as a. A question to you on that. Was it. Do you think it was because she. You say she asked you for medicine, or was it because he didn't want you near her?
- [108:15]
Anna
Now that I'm out of it, it's probably because she was asking for Xanax. And, I mean, you don't want anybody just giving any pills. But also, I think it came from a place of. I don't know. I just really. I'm like, you. I can read people.
- [108:30]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [108:31]
Anna
I mean, in the first five minutes of being in their, you know, energy. And to me, he seemed like he was in love with her, and it was extremely controlling. And, I don't know, she just seemed like a little kid who was getting literally carried away by her shoulders. And she's looking back at me like, I'm so, so sorry.
- [108:49]
Larry Birkhead
You know, I've seen that look a million times. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, here's the thing. I'll say about this. Obviously, when I first came to the house, there was, you know, I would. You know, when I. I would come to the kitchen, hang out, you know, like, it was like the common. I kind of felt like it was. I don't want people to, like, run with this, but, like, it kind of felt a little cult. Like, you know, like we were in, like, some kind of cult, you know?
- [109:14]
Anna
Anna Nicole, Love, Love Boat. Yeah.
- [109:16]
Larry Birkhead
I mean, like, I was resistant to. I didn't want to be an entourage member or whatever.
- [109:20]
Anna
Right.
- [109:20]
Larry Birkhead
So I maintained independence. I tried to as much as I could. I still worked and did my own thing. I. I wasn't asking her for money, you know, I Would that. That kind of stuff. But I, I will say that, you know, you know, the people in the house, they were having their bills paid, but at the same time the people in the house were working for. And I, I will say this. I had my own issues with Howard as far as like him stepping into the relationship territory between myself and Anna. But at the same time, on the flip side of things, I watched him like work tirelessly, you know, and negotiate all of our contracts and not take a fee. You know, an agent would take, you know, 10 or whatever, a manager would take this. Nothing was taken out of it. Everything went to her, you know, and it was fiercely negotiated for her benefit. Like, you know, it was. And I, but I would also see, you know, him spend time with Anna's son Daniel, kind of a father figure figure.
- [110:09]
Anna
Right.
- [110:10]
Larry Birkhead
You know, and take him out to learn to drive and do things like that, or take him out to a restaurant when Anna was just so exhausted that she didn't get out of bed for days, you know. So I saw like both sides of it. And the side that I saw that didn't bother me was the side where he's helping Daniel and this stuff. The side that bothered me was when he got involved in our relationship and there, there came became petty stuff like, you know, Anna, I was telling you she was painting. I was painting, you know, Anna Howard, who's. Whose painting is better? Well, Anna, yours is better, you know, And I'm like, so it was like kind of like that kind of stuff, you know, like, okay, let's get Kim in the room. Kim, who's painting's better? And like it was like around two, you know, and it was like just like some childish stuff going on. I look back and I was like, you know, Anna was in her 30s, I was in my younger third. I'm five years. I was five years younger than Anna. So I was, you know, I want to say I was like 30 maybe when I was there. Right at 30. And, and basically we were all operating, even myself included a little bit. The maturity level wasn't to where people.
- [111:06]
Anna
Right. You know, and I, I feel like Anna liked to triangulate people. Yeah, that was her thing.
- [111:12]
Larry Birkhead
Well, and, and you know, like the thing about like, you know, what 30 something year old woman puts a trampoline in her house and tells you to jump off the rails? And it was almost like we were, you know, you hear about celebrities who didn't have a childhood, like Michael Jackson, these people, and they tried to recreate. So it was almost like we were kind of going along with the gag, like, oh, my God, today we're going to jump on a trampoline, you know. You know, tomorrow we're going to, you know, paint faces and paint. So it was like. It was like activity time, you know.
- [111:40]
Anna
Yeah.
- [111:40]
Larry Birkhead
And in between that, you know, obviously, we had our own personal time. But in the house, when that was happening, like, Howard slept on the couch below, which we auctioned. Thank God we got rid of it. But Anna's room was right above that, you know, and everybody kind of had a room and stuff. And so he really didn't have room, but he would stay around and stuff. And it was, like, a little bit uneasy for me because, like, he'd bring the dogs in. The dogs want to see you again. I'm like, okay, you know, the. You know, and. Or here's what we're doing today. And it. And some of it was necessary, but some of it, I think, was kind of like, to get in there to figure out what we were doing and stuff. But in his defense, and it took me a while to kind of, like. I don't want to say mature up, but also to kind of reflect on it. His. He was the cleanup man for a lot of the past stuff.
- [112:29]
Anna
Right.
- [112:29]
Larry Birkhead
For our relationship. So I don't want to make excuses for him, because in the moment, it hurt what he was doing to me. Hurt, like, my feelings and hurt, like, you know, the relationship, and it suffered because of it. But on the flip side of things, if you look at. From his perspective, where, you know, could he sit back and watch this person take advantage of Anna if he thought or whatever. I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm giving him too much credit. I don't know what somebody else might say. I try to see everything from both sides, but I do know that it became difficult to just exist in the relationship with her. And it wasn't just him. It was literally like, when people would come over, there was like. I mean, there's like. But going back to the Netflix show, there's two of these people that. That dressmakers that came out and took swipes at me and said, anna hated me. They were never in the house one time with us.
- [113:16]
Anna
Right.
- [113:16]
Larry Birkhead
Like, one of them came, I think one. And put a. A tape measure around her. And I saw them one time, and they never came back.
- [113:22]
Anna
Right.
- [113:23]
Larry Birkhead
You know, but now we're her best friends and. And we're her this and we're her that and, you know, and. And whatever. And in that show, you know, those People, you know, Howard aside, those people took swipes at me and was like, you said. And said that I was. I want to go back to that just if I can real quick. Of course, the. She was looking for a person to have a baby with. Well, that was partly born out of, like, I said that she would say she's not dating anybody. So there was a mystery who she's dating.
- [113:51]
Anna
Dating. Right.
- [113:52]
Larry Birkhead
So when she actually got pregnant, and not to jump ahead of what you're, you know, my sb, but like, it created a mischief, well, who the hell's the father? Because she said she ain't dating anybody.
- [114:02]
Anna
Right.
- [114:03]
Larry Birkhead
So, you know, that was the whole thing where the tension started to build because Anna, her show had ended. She still was the. The diet pill spokesperson. She. We knew she was pregnant. She came to me and told me she was pregnant. I was actually getting ready to. To just close up shop and say, I'm done. Because I couldn't deal with a lot of this stuff.
- [114:24]
Anna
Yeah, let's not gloss over that. So when she found out she was pregnant, how did she tell you and where were you guys at in your relationship?
- [114:33]
Larry Birkhead
Well, we. We had previously had a miscarriage and. And she had a difficulty with. I didn't think she was able to get pregnant, to be honest. Not that I'm like, like, not that we were trying not to or we really weren't.
- [114:49]
Anna
It was hard for her to get pregnant.
- [114:51]
Larry Birkhead
Well. And we really weren't sitting down going, oh, my God, today. At first we weren't saying, oh, my God, today we're gonna. Let's have a. You know, we weren't really. It was just like, we were just being ourselves and you know, you know, it's like, whatever. And I was convinced after hearing so many stories from her that, like, she had like, some. I wanna, I don't wanna say it wrong.
- [115:09]
Anna
The endometriosis.
- [115:11]
Larry Birkhead
No, the. The type of pregnancy topic.
- [115:15]
Anna
Oh, ectopic pregnancy.
- [115:17]
Larry Birkhead
So she had something like that in the past and stuff. She had difficulty with that. And so, like, when she did talk about wanting to have a baby, she had an ovulation meter by the bed. And she was like. I mean, I literally would be sitting there in the bed, oh, my God.
- [115:30]
Anna
It's time. It's time. It's time.
- [115:31]
Larry Birkhead
It was like, like clothes started flying. Like, you know, it's like, it's like she really. She was laser focused on wanting to have a baby. But what she did with me was she said after saying she thought I was sent as an angel to help her then she thought because of Daniel's birthday being the same as mine, that there was just too many signs that this was something that was meant to be. And then she went a step further and said, you know what? You actually kind of look like Daniel. And I think that, that, you know, if we had a kid together, we, we'd have some kids that look like, you know, Daniel. And, you know, and she always wanted a girl. I mean, years and years of collecting, like, baby girl clothes.
- [116:15]
Anna
Yeah.
- [116:16]
Larry Birkhead
Even dress Daniel up as a girl when she could because, you know, because she wanted a girl so bad, you know?
- [116:22]
Anna
Poor Daniel. What was your relationship like with Daniel?
- [116:25]
Larry Birkhead
You know, I honestly, I, I, I, I feel bad because I think in all of this, you know, after Daniel passed away and his, his mom and the paternity stuff, that he gets forgotten, you know, in so many ways, he was a really, really, really good kid. And I think that super shy, you know, if you ever watch the show. And, you know, and then finally they took him off the show, and then he, he did homeschool and stuff, and there was some kind of, like, you know, tension whether he should be on the show or not, and he didn't want to. And then, and, you know, as he got older and when I came into the picture, he was kind of warming up to, like, even doing some modeling and some things like that and kind of coming out of his shell a little bit, but he was, like, super quiet to himself. But I would go down because he was the only person in the house that I could talk to who would talk to me at some points, because we got to a point in the house that when you went to the kitchen and you got something to eat, you were not supposed to talk to the person you saw in the hallway. It's like, don't talk to her. You don't talk to him.
- [117:31]
Anna
Why?
- [117:31]
Larry Birkhead
Because she was telling people in the house different stuff.
- [117:34]
Anna
Okay.
- [117:35]
Larry Birkhead
So she didn't want anybody to compare notes to what she was telling them.
- [117:38]
Anna
Wow. So, wow, what a crazy way to live.
- [117:43]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [117:44]
Anna
Yeah. And I, and everybody has to abide by it because she's the breadwinner.
- [117:48]
Larry Birkhead
Well, they did the, the people, the employees had to. Right.
- [117:52]
Anna
That's what I mean.
- [117:53]
Larry Birkhead
Maybe her son. But, like, she would actually get to the point where sometimes, like, she would come to me and I would listen to her talk to employees in the house, and she'd say, you're back talking me. And then, you know, fast forward to us and, you know, you know, in the bedroom or wherever. And so she's like, and you're back talking me. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I am not your employee.
- [118:11]
Anna
Yeah.
- [118:11]
Larry Birkhead
You know, don't put me in that pocket. When you do that, then this goes to a different level. And so I stood my ground for that. And so. So she was like, oh, shit. But it was kind of like a little bit of respect I got from doing that. But it took me to say, hey, you're not paying my bills. You're not this. I don't want your money. Yeah, I don't. You know, like, literally, I didn't. I didn't ask her for anything. Like, you know, she brought me this necklace I'm wearing. You know, like, literally, that's the only thing that. Other than, like, holiday stuff or whatever, and, you know, I've never. I don't take it off. I think I took it off once. I went into an MRI machine, you
- [118:45]
Anna
know, and for Tyler Henry. Is that the one that you were wearing on Tyler Henry?
- [118:48]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah, and I don't. I don't take it off. But I. Listen, the thing is, is that with Howard, with all of that with him, you know, I had my problems with him that, you know, he had a job to do. I didn't really fit in that whole thing. The irony of it is, is that he was one of the ones that actually brought me into the fold. Why don't you come take pictures and stuff? So, I mean, he's probably kicking himself when he saw where I was versus where he might want to be. Be.
- [119:15]
Anna
Were they ever intimate?
- [119:17]
Larry Birkhead
No, never to my knowledge. In fact, when I talked to Anna, she's like, that's gross. That's this. That's that, you know, And.
- [119:22]
Anna
But I mean, you can't really trust what Anna says because she's.
- [119:25]
Larry Birkhead
No but world.
- [119:25]
Anna
She doesn't have a boyfriend.
- [119:27]
Larry Birkhead
That's true. So. But the thing that I will think what I would say to that was, is that the only thing that I can attest to is that, like, there was in no circumstances was, like, she getting sex for me and going downstairs on the couch and getting sex from him.
- [119:39]
Anna
No, but I mean, even before you,
- [119:41]
Larry Birkhead
or, like, I honestly don't know. I mean, I can tell you that we had, you know, so many private conversations about that, that, that.
- [119:51]
Anna
That she never wavered.
- [119:53]
Larry Birkhead
She would never. She would never say anything. But we're just. He's like my brother. He's like my friend. He's like, you know, And I'm like, okay. I mean, I didn't have any reason to think that they would have. So I didn't really go further with it until later, right after the baby was born.
- [120:09]
Anna
So take me on that journey of her telling you that she's pregnant and where you guys are at.
- [120:13]
Larry Birkhead
Sorry, I'm all.
- [120:14]
Anna
No, it all ties in together, I promise.
- [120:16]
Larry Birkhead
And the thing is, like I said,
- [120:18]
Anna
there's so much lore, it's hard. You're gonna have to go down different avenues just to tie it in together.
- [120:23]
Larry Birkhead
And like I said, I'm add some, like, go back, and then I'm.
- [120:25]
Anna
No, you're fine. It's all making sense, I promise. It may not feel like it, but it is.
- [120:32]
Larry Birkhead
So honestly, like, at a time when we had just kind of got off, got over the miscarriage just several months prior to that, and then there were some rough patches. We hit, and, and, and I just was like, I'm. I gotta go. I, I, I gotta go home. I was.
- [120:48]
Anna
What were the rough patches?
- [120:50]
Larry Birkhead
Well, it was like, you know, I mean, like, she expected so much out of me that I, I was, I was drained. Honestly, like, I was, it was, was. And I honestly, like, like I said, I'm hyper. I, like, I have things I've got to get done. I, I literally would go. We would go to an event and we would say New Year's Eve in Vegas. And like, I was like, okay, that was fun. The next day, but she needs to sleep for two weeks, to watch movies and stay in the bedroom and do whatever and just to recover from it. So to me, I was like, I felt like I was just sinking into the bed.
- [121:32]
Anna
Right.
- [121:32]
Larry Birkhead
You know, like, I was. And, and some people like, well, what's your complaint? You know, it's Anna Nicole. But I mean, after so much, like, mentally, I was like, I, I. Because also, it wasn't just that. It was like, I was told, like, I, I had nieces and nephews I was super close with, you know, when they were growing up, and I never missed one holiday party with them or a birthday or whatever. I, she, There was one time I wanted to go home for my niece's birthday, and she told me no. And we had to get a birthday cake. And she put my niece's. She sent her assistant to go get it, go get a birthday cake that says Happy Birthday, Amber. And I was like, okay. And then her system comes, brings it in. She goes, now go get your camera. And she says, here, you take a picture. Told her assistant, take the picture. She gets in the bed. She, she's got like a, A white fluffy hat. Remember the hats the girls were wearing, the flag, you know, And. But she wanted me to send this picture back to my niece, but she. I wasn't supposed to tell anybody that I was dating her, date my family or anybody. So what she did, which was weird, was she puts glasses on. She makes me put glasses on. And a sombrero. So I have a cake, a sombrero, and she's got these things done. And I'm holding this cake up, stuff that says, happy birthday, Amber. And she goes, okay, now it's done. You had a party. I go, what? And that. She. She said, you're not going back home. Christmas came up. Oh, my gosh, no, you can't go home because she didn't have anybody.
- [123:02]
Anna
Yeah.
- [123:02]
Larry Birkhead
So she felt like I was abandoning her when I said, I need to go just take care of normal things.
- [123:07]
Anna
And she wouldn't go with you because she didn't want people to know you guys were dating for sometime.
- [123:12]
Larry Birkhead
We got to a point where she finally got over a little bit over the hump of that By. It was actually out of. No, it was a. It was by mistake, actually. We were in a Hooters restaurant in Burbank, and we had just went shopping for. It was around Christmas time, and Anna had all these people's charity. She. You know, those adopt the families on tv, you see? And, like, there were so many families that were, like, she was giving things to and stuff, and we were getting gift cards and stuff to send, and we went by Hooters afterwards, and she was like, there was nobody in the restaurant at all. And so they came over, waited on us and stuff. And all of a sudden, the paparazzi shows up at the window. And I have a feeling somebody probably inside called him or whatever, because it was like, where we were. There's just really not a lot of paparazzi in that area.
- [124:00]
Anna
Right.
- [124:00]
Larry Birkhead
So the waitress is waiting on us, and Anna's looking out the window at the paparazzi, and I'm telling her, look. And I had already taken pictures inside with her doing, like, dances on with the Hooters girls and stuff. And we were just having lunch and stuff, and. And I was always to take my camera bag because I always had to look like the photographer, right? So it was like I was playing a role within my relationship of really being something that I actually was so right. You know? So the. The paparazzi is outside, and the waitress comes over, and she's like, oh, my God. She goes, I love your earrings, to Anna. And she had these, like, Earrings with a star on. She's like, they're so, so pretty. She goes, oh, my gosh. And your son is so cute. And she's looking at me. So Anna immediately turns her back to the waitress. She looks at me, and we both had beers in our hand and stuff. The paparazzi's outside still. We were still dealing with that. And she takes a swig of her beer, and I. And tears start coming down her face. And she says, you're gonna eat five meals, and you're gonna lift weights, and you're gonna get big, and no one's gonna think you're my son, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I. You know, I. But she had already told me I look like her son.
- [125:23]
Anna
You know what I mean?
- [125:24]
Larry Birkhead
So it was like she was taking that and going, now I was being used against me. And I was like. I didn't really think we looked anything like. Other than, like, it was cool we had the same birthday, but. But whatever, you know? And so.
- [125:34]
Anna
Well, I think what happened in that moment was. Was an ego hit, because you're her dude, and, you know, she's like, what are you trying to say? Like, I look old. Like, what's going on?
- [125:44]
Larry Birkhead
She thought that.
- [125:45]
Anna
Yeah, she.
- [125:46]
Larry Birkhead
And she was always sensitive about. She was always sensitive about criticism about, you know, the way she looked. And she was. She was used to being picked apart, and she had just kind of, you know, transformed herself, you know, back. And this was like the trim spa era where she was like, you know, and. And she thought all of that for this to you to say that. And then, obviously, no, nobody wants to feel like they look old and stuff. Like, you know, women especially, it's like, you know, so let's like, I. I didn't know what to do in that moment because I was like, the paparazzi's out there. Tears are streaming down her face. She's, you know, crying. And I remember. I didn't want my. My instinct was to obviously, like, to comfort her and to hug her, but I. I remember the paparazzi is there, and I'm like, So I kind of froze. And so she turns and she takes her arms and puts them around me, and she's still crying. And. And I'm like. And I know this sounds petty because, like. But from what it was, it hurt her feelings. It hurt me to see her hurt.
- [126:50]
Anna
Hurt.
- [126:51]
Larry Birkhead
But at the same time, that particular incident, when we left the Hooters restaurant, then they started taking pictures of us leaving. I'm holding her, my Camera bag. I'm holding one of her dog's bags, and she's trying to compose herself, and she's flipped the switch again, and she's like. She's got her leg wrapped around a pole, and she's leaning back and doing poses and stuff. And she's really. She's working the camera on the way out because that's. She's trying to recover in that moment. Moment. And those pictures wound up. I. I think they came out in a magazine. Who's Anna Nicole's mystery guy, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh. And so she really didn't get that worried about that because it didn't. I don't want to say it was like, breaking major news. It was. It was in magazines and stuff. And it was like, it next. You know, next week's edition's coming out next or whatever.
- [127:45]
Anna
Right.
- [127:46]
Larry Birkhead
But it. To me, later on, that would be a moment that would actually come back and be a piece of evidence that would prove that I had a relationship with her. After the paternity stuff hit, because Howard, her attorney, went out and said that I didn't date Anna and that I just had about 15 pictures with her and that we're not going to respond to every Tom, Dick, and Larry that goes out and says they had a relationship with Anna. And, you know, and so that was part of the paternity stuff when news broke about her getting pregnant, and people were trying to figure out, well, who's this and who's that? And so. But that particular moment in Hooters was a mistake that actually kind of put Anna's foot forward to say, okay, that wasn't so bad. You know, he didn't. He wasn't trying to get the press, and it was my fault. She recognized that there was nothing really that we could have done to get out of the moment. But she. In moving forward, you know, there was other things and other times that would test whether she was open to me being seen with her or not. And I never forced that because I was always respectful of the fact that this was her image.
- [128:59]
Anna
Yeah.
- [129:00]
Larry Birkhead
And, you know, and I didn't want to be. I also felt like I would fail that test.
- [129:07]
Anna
Right.
- [129:07]
Larry Birkhead
You know what I mean?
- [129:08]
Anna
Yeah.
- [129:08]
Larry Birkhead
Like, I felt like I was always. Somebody was always waiting for me to up.
- [129:11]
Anna
Exactly.
- [129:12]
Larry Birkhead
You know, And. And. And when that happened, I felt like then it's the. It's game over. You know, and to me, it was more important because I. I was in love with her at that time. We had these big moments These things that, like, I never experienced miscarriages and things like that. That brought us, like, it was hard, but it brought us closer. We got over things like all couples did. We, you know, like, you know, cheating and. And, you know, not me, but she cheated on me. And like, but she expected exclusivity from me. And, you know, who'd she cheat on you with? You know what? I would like to say it maybe happened once, but I think, you know, maybe, you know, a couple times. But I think.
- [129:49]
Anna
How did she get away from you to cheat? Just like business trips and stuff like that.
- [129:53]
Larry Birkhead
There was a time when I actually. We went to Australia for the MTV Music Awards. They were launching the Australian network and it was Sharon Osborne was there and Ozzy Osbourne and they just had Sharon on the podcast. I saw that. And Anna loved Sharon and she was like. She actually called Sharon mum because she needed that mom figure. And. And they were all over there and Carmen Electra and stuff. And so there was this whole big thing and it was a whole big thing that we filmed that's never been seen, but like, it's like this whole big thing where Anna was trying to outdo all of the other people that was slated to perform and stuff. And so. So during that trip, there was. She was over there to do some business. There was a guy who was flirting with her. I was forced to take pictures of her flirting with this guy. And really every time that we went to every event, everybody that flirted with her, I'm having to document my girlfriend being flirted with. With somebody else, you know?
- [130:53]
Anna
Right.
- [130:53]
Larry Birkhead
And it'd be girls, it'd be guys, whatever. Like it. Whoever was taking up that time, you know, that was like, like it's. It was a weird spot to be
- [131:00]
Anna
in and they, they had no idea. But you did and you had to just bite the bullet.
- [131:04]
Larry Birkhead
Yeah.
- [131:05]
Anna
Yeah. That's wild.
- [131:06]
Larry Birkhead
And so anyways, I. What were you asking me?
- [131:10]
Anna
Sorry, no, I actually forgot what I was. Oh, how did she get away to cheat on you?
- [131:15]
Larry Birkhead
So. So during that Australia trip, there was a guy flirting with her. You know, there was a business deal on the table. We. I flew 24 hours. We were, we were. And Anna was there. We filmed the whole thing. No one's seen that either. And it's like all this behind the scenes craziness and. And basically there was a situation where the guy came up to the room that we were supposed to share together and I was given a key for the room next door. Like I was now the help, help. And I Was like, wait a second or, you know, I was like, I didn't belong in that room. And so there it it, you know, she denied it later. I, you know, you know. But out of that I, you know, I, I, I feel like something probably happened to where I, like, I, obviously I wasn't in that room, but I had to put my foot down from that point. That's when I, that was like I said all this, this is all. I don't give a. What your, your public Persona is. I don't give a shit if you're this. I had enough. Like, you know, like, and I was, you know, I flew all this way, you know, and I was with, it was just me, Anna and Howard. And then we met people there from the different events and stuff. And you know, Anna was looking forward to this. Like, this was, she's like, we're going to the most, one of the most romantic places in the world and blah, blah, blah. And, and it was supposed to be this time and still like, again, the miscarriage was fresh and in my mind we didn't talk about it right. We, she didn't want to talk about it and she saw.
- [132:53]
Anna
How long was she. When you guys lost the baby, do you know?
- [132:56]
Larry Birkhead
It was a few, two, three months, I think. Yeah. But somehow she turned that into the, my suspicion about her cheating to denial to. She wanted to talk about that. And I don't know if that was just, it was a brain switch or a maneuver, but that, that thing was wiped away. We were now onto something else. And that's what happened in that and in her world really. You go from one thing to another, you don't have much time to spend on it. But I was told in that moment that I did not get the big picture, that, that you don't get what this is all about.
- [133:35]
Anna
Right. You know, sort of gaslighting you.
- [133:38]
Larry Birkhead
Well, it like, I like that I wasn't a part of that picture. Like, and I wasn't like. And, and, and I understood the business aspect of it. I understood like what I was supposed to do and say and not do and say and all that stuff. But that trip, which was, it was a turning point for many things for me to put my foot down for respect. And the odd thing was Anna's show was over. So we have it all. She was still filming, right? Yep. So she filmed everything after. So. And like all this stuff has just been in vaults and stuff. And so like it, it just shows us totally different picture of what if I would have taken all of this stuff that we have, that it's never been seen and dumped it in the courts when all the paternity stuff was going and all these different, the doctor trials and all the different things, they would, it would be okay. This all makes sense now. But I, I didn't, we didn't do that. And, and, and so, you know, people, because I have taken the high road in many ways that has worked against me and my relationship with Anna. It also worked against me after she passed away because people think that they can rewrite history, that I'm not going to say anything because I haven't said anything doesn't mean I don't know anything or I don't have the receipts and all the archives and things to show to totally blow everybody out of the water.
- [134:50]
Anna
You also had to protect.
- [134:52]
Larry Birkhead
That was the main thing. It was, you know, my daughter is just now she, you know, Danielyn's 19, she'll be 20 in September. She's at the, at the point where now it's kind of like, okay, there's some questions here. You know, I have this, or why is this person saying this? But she did, she sat back and she did not watch the Netflix show, but she watched the pain that I had from it and she felt for me in that moment where I was actually feeling. And I will say honestly, it hurt me what they said about me. I was, was more afraid that she would hear some of the things that they said about her mom and, and that not, not because there's things that she, they're not all great things. They're not bad things and not things that, like, I'm not putting myself on a pedestal and saying that, you know, I haven't done bad things or whatever. But what I was more afraid of is that the discrediting of her life story was taken down.
- [135:48]
Anna
Right.
- [135:49]
Larry Birkhead
And a two hour show for the purpose of what? You know, for somebody to make money, to make ratings, to make, try to get awards. The vindication in that was that the show was called Anna Nicole, you don't know me. And people said and you never will after you watch this show. Because.
- [136:04]
Anna
So I was like, yes, yes, yes.
- [136:05]
Larry Birkhead
And I was watching the Rotten Tomatoes score and it was like way down. I was like, let me frame that and send it to that.
- [136:12]
Anna
So take me on this journey of winning. She does tell you that she's pregnant because you guys are beefing. And we learned why. Tell me about this journey. Because this is like right before she moves to the Bahamas.
- [136:24]
Larry Birkhead
Correct. Okay, so the, the, I guess the. The thing with me, you know, I got to the point where I was, like, kind of fed up, and. Hi, I'm Katie Duke, and I've been
- [136:46]
Anna
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- [136:50]
Larry Birkhead
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Anna
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Larry Birkhead
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- [137:07]
Anna
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- [137:13]
Larry Birkhead
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Anna
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- [137:24]
Larry Birkhead
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- [137:28]
Anna
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Larry Birkhead
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- [137:43]
Anna
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