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A (3:02)

Is this thing on? What's up, you sexy? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today, I am super excited about the guests that we have. I think this man has gone through a complete media hurricane and somehow managed to be come this amazing father. And I just really am so grateful and thankful to have you here, Mr. Larry Birkhead.

B (3:28)

Thank you. Thank you. Well, what an intro. Thank you.

A (3:31)

So take, take me on this journey of when she does tell you that she's pregnant because you guys are beefing and we learned why. Tell me about this journey. Because this is like right before she moves to the Bahamas. Correct.

B (3:45)

Okay. So the, the, I guess the, the thing with me, you know, I got to the point where I was like, kind of fed up and Howard was out of the house a lot and the stuff that he was doing and people might kind of get a picture of kind of why I say the respect in certain ways. And I, you know, there was also the disrespect and things I felt, but he was out of the house for an extended period of time and stuff was starting to fall on me. Her assistant had kind of, they had had some situation that was kind of a private thing, but they, she was no longer working and everything was falling on me. So I was starting to feel like the boyfriend, the assistant, the this, the that. Can you go down, check on Daniel? Can you? You know, I was running to the store doing this and that, you know, I, and I, I was like, I, I just, I can't do this. This is everything I said I wasn't going to do in this.

A (4:41)

Right? You're like, I just want to be a man.

B (4:44)

Yeah. And I, and, and I don't mind, I didn't mind helping her. It wasn't that. I just felt like my identity was slipping away.

A (4:50)

Right.

B (4:50)

And everything that I, I, I, I had my first apartment when I was 15. I, you know, worked four jobs to pay for it. I. I hit the ground running, and I never stopped being independent.

A (5:01)

Right.

B (5:01)

The things that personally, like, from my childhood that I actually bonded with Anna about, but I. I always just said that I want to be, like, you know, independent. And I definitely didn't want to ask her for anything.

A (5:13)

Right.

B (5:15)

And so basically, we get to a point where because of the tension, the. Everything was just coming to a boiling point. And I. I had been disrespected in the relationship. I felt like. I felt like that, you know, that there was no. When it came to, like, disagreements, there was nobody sticking up for me. It was every. It was. Everything I did was bad. You know, it was whether it was a painting, whether it was this, whether it was a gift. I bought Anna. What the hell's that? You know, is that supposed to be Marilyn Monroe? What did you spend for that? You know, it was like everything was kind of being, like, just picked on. Yeah. And I was like, I just can't do it anymore. And I was like, okay, I'm. I think I'm done. And I told her. I was like, look, you know, I'm going to go home for a while. I haven't seen my folks. I think, you know, things have been kind of crazy. But. But she said to me, you know, well, here's what she said. So, like, I said, I'm pretty much out of here. And she said, I took off and I went down the street. And this is way back when you would text and you had to hit three buttons to get one letter.

A (6:28)

You know, like, oh, yeah, the T9. The T9. I remember very well.

B (6:33)

And so, like, you know, I got down the street and I. We had got an apartment. Anna and I had got an apartment in Burbank because she had lived there before when she was, like, in between jobs and her career kind of had, you know, ebbs and flows. And we got an apartment because we wanted some space to get away from people. And she also didn't like the fact that when I had an argument with her that I had to get on a plane and go to Kentucky. So it was kind of like, this is our spot. You know, I don't want to see any in here. So she was putting all of her stuff in and, you know, like. But she also used it as a doghouse.

A (7:10)

Oh, gosh.

B (7:11)

When I got not. Not literally adults, okay. When I was in trouble with her, it's like, go to the apartment.

A (7:16)

Oh, gotcha. Okay.

B (7:17)

And. And. And. But anyway, so I was on my way back to the apartment. And I was getting stuff to go to Kentucky and I got a text message and said, if you go home, you're gonna feel dumb. And I said, what are you talking about? And she sent a, a box. It was like a present. I don't want to say emoji because Were they emojis then?

A (7:43)

I don't even know.

B (7:44)

It was like, it was like weird. Like. Yeah, it was like, like what you

A (7:48)

would call, like a gift looking.

B (7:49)

Yeah, yeah, like a, it was a present.

A (7:51)

Yeah.

B (7:51)

She goes, because of the present that you gave me. And I go, what are you talking about? And she's like, the present. She always had to talk in code because she thought her phones were tap traced, whatever, and she didn't like putting anything in writing, you know. So basically I was like, the present, the present. So finally I, she sent me something else. It was either a baby or a baby bottle or something. And I was like, what? She goes, come back, dummy. She goes, I've got something to tell you. I came back and, and we talked it through or whatever. And I remember, you know, I was like, well, damn, I can't leave now. And then in my head I was like, well, you know, do angels really leave? You know, because I, it was, it was a, it was a mind thing that really stuck with me when I've never had somebody say something like that, where I felt like that they were, they felt like I had a purpose, that I was sent to them.

A (8:43)

Right.

B (8:43)

And I, I, I just, it stuck with me. So I was like, okay, I'm going to stick this out. And then, you know, we started going through the motions of, like, the, the excitement, the, you know, like the, the nervousness because of the past pregnancies and stuff. And. But come to find out, I mean, she was making. I still have the calendar to this day. She was keeping a calendar and she was writing down every time we had sex. Sss. You know, and then she got to a point where she came back and she showed me the test and stuff. And she kept that too. I think it's still in storage. Sorry. I don't know, Daniel. Probably kill me for telling that story, but yeah, yeah. So she, we. It was like one of these things where she started, you know, gaining weight and started showing and everything. And then there was the thing where, you know, over time I'd seen like, you know, her schedule of her medicines and stuff and things. And I, I, you know, she wasn't like. And this is one of the things I want to say, like, a lot of people think. When they think about Anna Nicole, they think, well, you know, drug addict this, that and the other and whatever. I never saw her do drugs. Maybe smoke pot or something, you know, never did she go out and say, I need a bag of cocaine or whatever. I had seen her. Like, you said she'd ask somebody, hey, do you have this? Or whatever.

A (10:08)

Yeah.

B (10:09)

And. And I'm not saying that's not drugs when you don't use them in the way you're supposed to.

A (10:12)

Yeah, those are pharmaceuticals.

B (10:13)

Yeah. But I. But she never did, like, hard.

A (10:16)

Right.

B (10:16)

Street drugs.

A (10:17)

Right.

B (10:18)

It was. It was kind of like she had enough prescription, she didn't have to.

A (10:21)

Right.

B (10:21)

You know.

A (10:21)

Yeah.

B (10:22)

But I was concerned because now she's pregnant, and I didn't really know. I'd never seen any one person take that many medicines for things like she had seizures. She had a lot of different, you know, ailments and things and things that, like, a lot of people didn't know about that she hid. She had. When I. When she. When I photographed her, I usually had to retouch one of her hands because she had swelling in one side of her body that she took some medicine for. She, you know, she. She was a. Migraines, insomnia, you know, like, you name it, she had it. And she was physically worn down, like, when she would do these events and she would just, like, that would be like, I need this time to recover. But during the. The course of the relationship, I started seeing, like, you're going to take this medicine, that medicine, or whatever, and when, you know, there's doctors come in or whatever. I don't question doctors.

A (11:16)

Yeah.

B (11:17)

You know, and. And especially when you're a celebrity, though,

A (11:20)

they give you whatever you want.

B (11:21)

Well, and I found that out, you know, you know, the hard way from the different things that I experienced there. But, like, you know, there was just moments where, you know, the. The medications were a question I questioned, hey, why are you taking this? I actually had one. And the medicine I hid, you know, that I was told, you know, by Howard, that it could have. Could cause damage to the baby if you hide it. Because I did my own, like, detective work, and I was looking up and I. Or so I thought.

A (11:50)

So she was still taking these medications while she was pregnant.

B (11:53)

She. All the medications that a doctor gave her, you know, while she was, you know, every day, she continued to take while she was pregnant. And so I didn't care. What? I won't say I didn't care. It wasn't really my business. A lot of times doctors would come in the house and do house calls. I would step out of the room, just be privacy, whatever. There's. I knew what she was taking because like, a lot of times it was like, they're on the bed, you know, I gotta take this, gotta take that. But I literally just questioned some of the medications during the pregnancy, and I. I got pushed back and I was made to feel like I could have caused damage to the baby and her. And I didn't hide it for like days. It was like maybe hours.

A (12:30)

Right.

B (12:31)

But she couldn't find it. And it became an issue because I said something about it. So after that conversation, you know, there was tension starting to build because first off, the only person in the house or that I. Even outside the house that I had heard Anna tell, and there weren't many. There was just like, maybe Anna's son, her assistant, and Howard and her assistant had left, but that she was pregnant. She didn't let anybody know. So. No, nobody was really, really that happy. Except Daniel. Right. But I was so scared. He was the person. I didn't want to know about it because he was the baby.

A (13:09)

Yeah.

B (13:09)

And he was like the first child. And I felt like, oh, my God, he's gonna think that I'm like taking his mom and. And like, you know, like, you know.

A (13:17)

Yeah.

B (13:17)

And then he's, you know, I just. I just felt not weird, but, you know, I was trying to be delicate about it.

A (13:23)

Right. For sure.

B (13:24)

And.

A (13:25)

And I'm sure Daniel went through his own things in that house.

B (13:27)

Yeah.

A (13:28)

So.

B (13:28)

So. And. And I. But I will say this. Like, he would walk in the room and there would be a baby name book on the bed, and we would just be looking at it and I'd like, kick it with my foot, you know, like. Or, you know, because I was trying to be respectful. But then there was a point where he came to me and he was like, you know, are you excited? I'm like, yeah, I'm really excited and stuff. And then. But I couldn't tell anybody the whole time. I couldn't tell my mom. I couldn't tell this. Now, she did ask me to call your mom and ask her what blood type you are. And I was like, the. That's weird. What do you want to know that for? And she's like, because I'm going to have to have a special shot because I'm this type of blood. You know what I'm talking about? Like, yeah. And I'm like, I. It's like, that's the first time I ever heard this before. And I was like, okay. So I told her. And then she's like, yeah, I have to have the shot because your mom said this or whatever. Mom's. My mom's like, why do you want to. I was like, I just wanted, you know, I was thinking about giving blood or something, you know, I just made something up, you know, I couldn't tell her. Mom's like, I don't even, you know, but I just. I couldn't tell anybody. And it was like such a weird thing. And I remember as she started, like getting bigger and bigger, I went to a mall in Sherman Oaks. And she was like, I. She was. She always loved shopping online. Boxes all the time in home shopping club. I didn't even think that existed, but when I was with her, but it still did because there's boxes every single day. And there was nothing that, like she saw on infomercials or whatever, she didn't buy. But she said, I want something really pretty, some nice maternity stuff or whatever. She goes, can you go get me some stuff? And I was like, okay. So I went down and it was like a motherhood. Something stored, some chain store, you know. And I remember. And this happened every time there was a gift or a special occasion. I. I felt like I was inadequate because I was not the oil man. So I felt like, you know, I had. If I had to always buy more or do more, you know, and even if I couldn't afford it, you know, I had to do it, you know. And so I was in there and I. And I had the money, like for clothes and stuff. I was just, you know, it was just one of those things. I was always just kind of felt like that. So I was like trying to pick out pretty stuff and, you know, and I got like all these outfits to the front register. And I remember going over to the register and she's like, oh, you got some nice stuff. Just small talk shit. And then I'm like, okay. And she's like, okay, so give me the name of the mother for the registry. And I stopped and I just froze. And I felt like an out of body experience because I was like, she just fucking asked me what the mother's name was.

A (15:58)

Yeah.

B (15:58)

And I. And as small as the question was from her that she asked everybody, probably, yeah, it. To me, it was like it was a wake up call for the fact that you will not that this is not the normal situation, right. That my twin brother experienced with anybody.

A (16:13)

Right?

B (16:14)

It's like. So I remember running out of the store with the bag and, like, and taking it, getting out of there because. And. But the secrecy was a source of additional pressure in the relationship, because then I want to say.

A (16:28)

And it's got to be hard being hidden all the time, you know, like, nobody wants to feel like they're like. I don't want to say on the back burner, but, like, nobody you want to. When you love somebody, you want to love them out loud.

B (16:40)

Yeah.

A (16:40)

So, I mean, years of not being able to love somebody out loud would definitely, you know, wear on some. On any normal human.

B (16:48)

Yeah, I mean, it was at first, you know, I think. I think I did a good job of going along and respecting her wishes. I just think that when it came to the push and the shove and trying to stand up and trying to figure out, it was like a power balance of who's going to win this one, who's going to win that one, you know, and never did I ever lay my hands on her. One time in the relationship, I got smacked with a few diamond rings in my face, you know? You know, and. And you could probably, like, do an appraisal off my face, because the imprint, you know, but like, we, We. We went back and forth, but it was because I was. I. I didn't want to be a yes person to her. I wanted to be honest. And sometimes it worked, and sometimes it didn't work. It depended on what she was, the mood she was in. And so it continued, you know, pressure of that. There was a point in, when she was about five months pregnant, she didn't even go to the doctor and tell anybody because she didn't want a doctor to know. So she's, like, just winging herself. And I said, don't you think you should go to the doctor? And she's like, no, I feel this one's good, you know. Trust me, I know. And we know when this is. Blah, blah. And she was giving me all the reasons why she shouldn't. And there was some point about five months along, and still the secret was kept and nobody knew. And. And she was really worried about people knowing, but she was more worried about that she was a diet pill spokesperson for Trim Spa and that she would lose her job. Not that they would have, but. And they. They were actually supportive when it came down to finding out about it, but she was so concerned because she was in survival mode that that was her check, right? What do you mean? I tell the truth and someone's gonna take my check, you know, so it was just. It was just that was one of the big things. Then she started hatching a plan that she was going to actually get a camera and start filming stuff and she was going to put this on her website and make people pay for it. And she was going to do her own reality show, right? Screw the people at E. You know, I'm going to do my own. Why are they going to fudgeing. Make money off me. I'll make my own fucking money.

A (18:48)

You know that calm.

B (18:49)

Yeah. So she did. And so she put the site up and she started putting some merchandise up and stuff. And like, she didn't put the videos up yet because she wasn't to that point of announcing or whatever. And I said to her, well, you don't want me to be in this. She's like, no, it would be fine. But I want you to understand, if you are in the press, you gotta be careful what people are gonna talk about and you gotta be ready for it and whatever. So about five months, five and a half months into it, she had this really extremely bad headache. And I was worried because she previously had seizures the night of the whole big infamous American Music Awards that, that tape went everywhere. She had seizures that night. I thought she was gonna have. I was always on seizure watch, you know, and so I, I was like, oh, you know, let me call Howard. And Howard's like, we're gonna take her to the doctor, whatever. Well, I was told I I really shouldn't go. And by the way, you know, there was nobody at the house. Can you help do this? Watch the dogs, do whatever. I was like, yeah, but I was really nervous and worried about her, you know, but I, I knew that if I went that I could, it would be probably divulge that I was, you know, the dad or possibility or whatever. So eventually I, I was able to come to the hospital. I got to the hospital, Howard's in a cot on the side of the bed. It was a. I want to say it's like what they used to say, like the two person room. But there was only. They cleared the other side out, right? And there's a cot set up and you know, Anna came, I went over to Anna and she, she was, she, she was kind of like in a good mood and she was out of her pain and stuff for the headache and stuff it seemed. And, and she, she said they're going to come in and do a scan in a few minutes and they're gonna show the baby. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And I was like, do you want me to Go out of the room or do you. She's like, no, just stay here. Whatever. I was like, what do you want me to sit? Or what do you mean to do? You know? Like, I don't want to be. Do the wrong thing, you know, and there was doctors coming in and stuff, and she was under an alias at the hospital and stuff, and, you know, so I eventually climbed in the next to her in the bed because she was like, just sit up here with me. I was like, okay. So I literally, like, stayed for a while. We got to see the ultrasounds, and. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

A (21:20)

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first date?

B (21:23)

Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

A (21:30)

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways.

B (21:32)

Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. And I was like, you know, that's when it kind of became real to me because I felt like, oh, wow, we were moving, and I was worried. I was like. It was almost like the. They said, oh, everything's great and everything's fine. I was only worried because, like, her health, not because she was doing a bunch of drugs, even the medication. She was. I was just worried in general because we went through the miscarriage and, like, I guess every other. When you're having a baby and there's all these concerns to get to a certain point. And in the hospital, they were trying to control some of her symptoms and stuff, and they gave her, like. They basically overdosed her on. On Benad drill, or gave her too much, I should say, you know? And she started scratching and itching. This was like a night or two after I'd stayed. Literally slept in the bed at the hospital with her, and nobody said anything. And she did. She didn't say, leave or someone's gonna find out. And Howard was just still sitting in the cot and stuff. So basically I said, anna, Anna, you can't do that. You know? And she's like, what? And then Howard's like, gets up, and he's like, you're yelling at her. You need to leave and get out of here. And I was like, okay. So I got up, and I was basically pushed out of the hospital. But Anna really was kind of like. She was, like, in an agitated state.

A (22:54)

Well, yeah. When you're going, when you have an allergic reaction like that, it's gonna make you agitated.

B (22:58)

But I was concerned for her. I wasn't trying to raise my voice. And I think, I don't know what happened. It was something that really shouldn't have happened.

A (23:05)

Yeah.

B (23:05)

And I, and I, I was asked to leave. And I remember I left the hospital and I was like, he's asking me to leave the hospital where my girlfriend is having a baby. We're having a baby. You know, And I. But I was honestly worried that he was going to call the police or something on me. Like, I felt like that I always felt like. And not that this was even on his mind, and maybe it was just paranormal. My end. I felt like I was waiting to either fail a test or be set up for something.

A (23:40)

Right.

B (23:40)

You know what I mean?

A (23:41)

Yeah.

B (23:41)

Like, I saw, I was like, you

A (23:42)

were waiting for the shoe to drop because you, you knew that it was fleeting.

B (23:47)

Yeah.

A (23:47)

Yeah.

B (23:48)

And I was like, I, I, I, I don't know. I just. So I, so I walked out of the hospital. I walked past the nursery. There was all these, you know, I went up the elevator, down the elevator, and I remember walking past a window where there were the babies and stuff. And I remember thinking, and there were couples and stuff and walking down the hall where they're leaving with the real chair and where their baby. And it was such a normal sight to see those people. And I felt like I was living everything but that.

A (24:15)

Right.

B (24:16)

And it wasn't. And I remember looking at the babies going. I mean, it was just a wake up call to, like, you're going to be a dad, but you're in some deep shit, like, right now that you don't like. How are you going to get out of this one? You know?

A (24:30)

Yeah.

B (24:30)

You know. And so I left the hospital. But before I left and before things went sour, backing up, there was a key thing that happened that, that Anna had acknowledged me in a diary as being the dad and acknowledged Howard as being the uncle. And I felt bad for Howard. I was like, howard's over there. Come here, Uncle Howie. And you sign your name here. And like, so they put it on a book and it was.

A (24:53)

She was just in the hospital journaling.

B (24:55)

Yeah, okay. Journaling. And he and Howard got her something from the gift shop. And it had a stamp set with it. It was like a. I don't know, like stationary. So we put our fingerprints in it. Each one of us did. I was next to the father, Howard's next to the I don't know why she said, put your finger. It was like. She was like being a kid, let's play with this, you know, And.

A (25:12)

But I bet that saved you later on.

B (25:14)

Well, you would think, but, like, I. That that diary has never been seen again. Wow. Yeah. That of all her. I have every diary she ever wrote back to when she was little. That diary was never seen again because I feel like paternity and people made statements. Howard said he was the father. If he said that and that said that, I felt like I'll. You know, whether he threw it, she threw it. Who. Whatever. It's. It's gone. You know, it never come. But I. After leaving the hospital, it was just like, I went back to Kentucky. It was. It was Derby weekend. And I'm like, I gotta fucking make some money. Like, I. Like I'm having a baby. I don't know if it's going to work out, if I'm going to get visitation every other week, if, you know, I'm going to be in court. I don't know what's happening with this whole situation, but I know that I'm having a baby.

A (25:59)

So from leaving that situation at the hospital and from leaving, you just felt like, okay, this is going to be a fight. Like, you kind of knew that it was going to. You're. In order for you to be a part of your child's life, you were going to have to put up a fight.

B (26:12)

Not necessarily with Anna, right? No, but just the circumstances, I feel like. Because I felt like that if I had to fight for my daughter, it crossed my mind that I. I was like, basically I was. I was making money, but I couldn't afford to fight a celebrity.

A (26:32)

Right.

B (26:33)

You know, that about a baby, you know, But I didn't even think that. I. I don't know that I felt like it was gonna 100 go there, right? I felt like I needed a break and I need to make money. Because I said in my mind, always, you said, you don't want anything from this lady. You don't want to take money from her. You don't want to pay bills. And how stupid would you look, you know, if you're asking her to pay for diapers and stuff like that? I wanted to contribute, you know.

A (26:56)

Was she okay with you going back to Kentucky?

B (26:58)

She didn't even know I left.

A (26:59)

Oh, so you just went home?

B (27:00)

So I left. I got on a. First off, a few days had passed and I didn't hear from her. And I was like.

A (27:06)

Were you at the apartment?

B (27:07)

Yeah, Okay. I was at the apartment a few days, and I was like, you know, I didn't hear from her. I was trying to text, and she had been texting in the hospital before the whole thing with the Benadryl. And I was like, I don't know if she's got her phone or if he took her phone. I don't know if I was blocked, because that happened before, too, right? You know, blocked on instant message on aol. Everybody had aol. Yeah, yeah. Blocked on this. And you get unblocked and you go back. You know, it's like. Then you change your screen name and you go around and you. You know, it's like, you know, so it was kind of. That kind of petty stuff. And I was like, okay, maybe I've been blocked. I'm like, but I have to make money. And I. I went back somewhere. When I went back to Kentucky, that's when my phone started blowing up. I was on that same steamboat that I was on years ago. Okay? Now, the lady from the Titanic was long gone, but I was on there, and I was like. I literally found myself back in that same moment.

A (27:55)

Yeah.

B (27:56)

And I was like, that's crazy. Yeah. And I. And I said, okay. And as soon as I was headed toward that steamboat, my phone was blowing up. And it was like, people. Because I had. Being a photographer and a reporter, the same way I built my career up, those people use that contact in this situation that was coming up about the paternity, right? So they knew how to get a hold of me, but they weren't talking jobs. They were talking, wait, we just got a tip that Anna Nicole is pregnant. And I'm like, what? So I start texting Howard saying, hey, they're asking if she's pregnant. You know, I'm like, what happened? You did you. Did you tell? And blah, blah. So Anna calls, and she's like, where are you? I go, I'm in Kentucky. She goes, why did you leave the hospital? I go, howard told me to leave the hospital. She goes, I didn't even know Larry. They've had me screwed up on this Benadryl. She goes, and then I had an allergic reaction and they changed my medication. She goes, I didn't even know you were gone. She goes, get back here. I go, well, my phone is blowing up. So everybody was asking, like, you know, do you have. Do you know who the dad is? Can you tell us who the dad is? Are you the dad? You know, it was like, that started coming. I was like, oh. And I'm like, no, let me. You know, I was like. I was. Put them all off, you know?

A (29:10)

Yeah.

B (29:11)

And then when Howard said they started contacting him because he was really officially her spokesperson.

A (29:17)

Right.

B (29:18)

He was saying, you know, it will. He was starting to play cat and mouse with the press. If Anna is pregnant, she'll let you know. She. You know, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. You know, you'll find out soon. Hahaha. You know, really kind of like just. It was. It created more problems swatting the hornets. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, okay. So Howard called backs. He says, you need to deny that you're the father. And I'm like, okay, I. Because I wasn't in it for.

A (29:46)

Right.

B (29:46)

That.

A (29:47)

I mean, you already spent two years with this woman.

B (29:49)

Yeah.

A (29:50)

Why would you start.

B (29:51)

And I felt like I passed the test if I said I'm not the father.

A (29:54)

Right.

B (29:55)

That was my test. I was like, okay, all right. Called the lady from Star magazine, said, nope, you're wrong. That's. I'm not the father.

A (30:01)

Yeah.

B (30:02)

So hung up the phone. Kept going and going and going.

A (30:05)

You think somebody from the hospital tipped them off?

B (30:07)

I think what happened was Anna was texting people while she was on Benadryl. Oh. And she told this girl that she was expecting a baby.

A (30:16)

Oh, my goodness. Okay.

B (30:18)

And we came. There were some other things too. There was a photographer that lived close to her who was actually a really great photographer and way better than I ever was, but wound up taking pictures of her from his balcony and selling them to, you know, and that created more problems and more problems. So then it was like, okay, we've got a glimpse of Anna Nicole. She's heavily pregnant. She's not just like, you know, whatever, you know. But the problem was is that Anna and I, when she knew she was pregnant, she wanted me to make money, but she also didn't want me to leave. So we concocted that we were going to take a series of photo shoots and we were going to put them in the can. So we did an Easter sheet. She dressed up as the Easter bunny with the Easter basket and Easter eggs, you know, and then we did, you know, holiday stuff. And then we did, like, just random stuff with.

A (31:05)

That was an iconic photo shoot of her with the Easter basket.

B (31:07)

Thank you.

A (31:08)

And we redid that photo shoot, actually. Yeah.

B (31:13)

It was a trashy lingerie.

A (31:15)

Yeah.

B (31:15)

Thing or whatever. Yeah. We still have everything she had. Yeah.

A (31:18)

I love that.

B (31:20)

But so should we put all these photo shoots in the can? Because she, you know, she wanted people to think that she wasn't pregnant. And she also wanted trim spot to think that she was. Was not pregnant.

A (31:31)

Right.

B (31:31)

So when the cat was out of the bag was obvious she was pregnant. You know, just mystery, mystery, mystery. And they were. Anna's attorney Howard's having kind of a little bit of fun with it. And in Anna's world, I don't. I won't say in his defense, but in the past and in most situations when the more press talks about you, the more you're wanted, the more you get, the offers go up, you know.

A (31:55)

Right.

B (31:55)

So it was kind of like, okay, this is going to lead to something else because everybody's talking about Anna Nicole.

A (31:59)

Right.

B (32:00)

And I remember, you know, I was on going to the grocery, Anna was eating like 200 worth of pies a day and cakes. And I was going down. I was going down the canyon. I'd get back up and she's like, go down and get some more. Go get some. You know, and it was just kind of like I was running around and doing a lot of stuff and I was flipping pancakes, and then I was like doing facials and foot massage. And she'd fall asleep and she had like seven steps of her skincare line that she had out. She had them numbered, you know, and she. I'd get up to four and she'd fall asleep and she'd wake back up, and I would be literally on like nine or ten. She'd go, you didn't. You're cheating. Start back at one. And like, you know, it's like a lot of, like, you know, I mean, it was a lot to it and to the point where I started writing on that same calendar where she was charting out, like, sex and this.

A (32:43)

Yeah.

B (32:43)

And I said, transported. Patient transported this. Painted this for her, Painted some furniture, did this to let her know I was like, doing all this stuff, you know, and. And she. I don't know, it was just. I got off track. But.

A (33:00)

No, you're good. You're just telling us the journey of the pregnancy. And like, so when you guys. What prompted her to move to the Bahamas and how did you guys completely break up?

B (33:12)

Yeah, after, you know, like the press scrutiny and like, you know, the mystery and, you know, who's the dad? And all this stuff kept coming out. And the press, what they did was they went back to those interviews where Anna said she was single and she didn't have anybody that she was dating. And so they. There were. There were like some tabloidy type stuff. You know, Anna Nicole gets sperm donor something. And you know, blah, blah, blah, packs on the pounds and whatever, you know, anything they could say to try to like being part of the story.

A (33:46)

Right.

B (33:47)

So I went one time down to the gas station right around the corner from her house down the canyon. And I think Howard went to run some errands or whatever. About two days later, Howard comes back to Anna in the bedroom, and I'm laying in the bed and he says, look what I found. And it's a picture of me pumping gas with no shoes on, literally at a gas station. And I'm like, I have like this angry look in my. I can't see. I must have a glare or something in my eyes and I can't see and I'm doing like this. And it's like, it says, anna Nicole's publicist. Is he the father of her? You know, blah, blah, kid or whatever. And I was like, what is. I didn't know anything about it, but it was a photo agency that I had previously worked with through my photography job.

A (34:38)

Yeah.

B (34:38)

But they never called me and said, hey, are you the father or anything?

A (34:41)

Yeah, they just printed it.

B (34:42)

They. Well, they, they, they staked out her house and they put. They knew I wasn't her publicist, but because I was sending those photo shoots that we were stockpiling to them, they kind of considered me, I guess, in that role as a publicist. So I was like, this is totally off base. I don't even know where this is coming from. And, you know, obviously look at me like I had a full grown beard. I was like, no shoes on. I look like a homeless person, you know. So it was inferred to Anna that I did. I called them and I told them.

A (35:14)

So Howard kind of snaked you?

B (35:16)

Yeah. But I went back because I had a code because I was a photographer and I was on that system of the website. And I pulled up the actual. The whole shoot from that, and guess who I saw? Howard was in a picture taking a dog out of a vet. So I went back to Anna and said, hey, I was photographed. They use the same caption under Howard's photograph. So how is, how am I responsible for Howard getting photographed and me getting photographed? She never really accused me of that. Yeah, she was like, oh, my God. And so then the whole thing started with Anna got a sperm donor or whatever. And I said to her, I was like, you know, look, they're saying I'm a publicist. They're saying I'm a boyfriend. They're saying you have a sperm donor. I'm like, this Is kind of just like, a lot, you know, to take in.

A (35:57)

Yeah.

B (35:57)

And I'm like, I'm trying my best to not say anything or whatever. So back when I was at the derby and whatever. My phone was blowing up, she wanted. When I came, she said, you've got to come back home. So we kind of reconciled on that. The hospital thing was in the past. Like everything else in Anna's life, you know, she kind of pushed it under the rug. Wasn't a great communicator. We moved on to the next thing.

A (36:18)

Right.

B (36:18)

Waiting for the next problem, you know.

A (36:19)

Right.

B (36:20)

And so about, I'd say, a couple weeks after that situation with the press, Anna wanted to go get her hair done. And I was like, you're. What are you gonna get done? She's like, I'm gonna get my hair highlighted. You know, I want to look pretty. And I feel gross and nasty. And I was like, you know me. I'm, like, nervous. I'm like, I read online that you're not supposed to get your hair dyed when you're pregnant. And she's like, you know, stop all that. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get it done. I was like, all right, all right. So there was, like, just me being, like, nervous.

A (36:50)

Right.

B (36:51)

You know, and maybe she thought it was overkill. I don't know. We went down the street to a hair salon right by our house. She had this big trench coat on, and her stomach is showing. And I'm like, anna, Anna. Like, you gotta close the trench coat. Like, you know, I was like. And she's like, leave me alone. And so she was, like, overdoing it. The girl was doing her hair, and it wasn't somebody she knew. It was, like, someone they just put. So there's no loyalty there. So I was kind of really, like, right. You know, it was like, oh. And. And I was like, well, you know, they're. I just don't want anybody to say anything. So Anna turns to the girl. She goes, oh, I'm gaining weight for a role that I'm playing. And it was like. It was so over, like, the opposite direction of what was going on.

A (37:34)

Right.

B (37:35)

That I was like, okay, this is gonna go downhill.

A (37:37)

Yeah.

B (37:38)

So I say, look, I'm gonna go invoice for my photos that I took on a different job or whatever. And I was like, I'm gonna. I'll be back. And she's like, flipping through a magazine. You know, when you get to the salon, you're doing the magazine. She's like, oh, My God, these are so cute. Glasses. Chanel glasses or whatever. Go get me these. And I was like, okay, whatever. So she rips the page out and hands it to me. I said, I'll stop by the mall on my way back and see if I can find them. And I'm like, like, going, are these fudgeing glasses going to be, like, $2,000 like the rest of the ones that she has?

A (38:04)

Yeah.

B (38:04)

Because I'm, like, sitting there trying to get my money for my pictures, and I'm, like, trying not to say, you know, I don't have all of this money.

A (38:10)

Yeah.

B (38:11)

And, I mean, I have credit cards and things I can do, but I'm like, you know, I'm just honest. I'm like, it wasn't like, you know, her birthdays and Christmas wipe me out every year, you know, like, you know. So I was like, all right, I'll just see what I can do. So I went to the. To. I went to the FedEx, whatever, just throw my invoices off. And. And I went by the glass place, and they're like, these glasses aren't out yet. These are like. They come out soon, but they don't have them or whatever. It's like, you know, like when they put new in the magazines, and it's like, not there.

A (38:43)

Yeah, yeah.

B (38:43)

It's like, so that. So I went back to the hair salon. I didn't have the glasses. Anna said, what took you so long? I was like, I. I was just doing my invoices, you know, and she went totally off about this pair of sunglasses. And I. To this day, I still. It's a head scratcher. And I was like, I'm sorry I didn't get them. I'm like, I'm literally. I'm sorry I asked. I'm like, here, call the store yourself. Like, they don't have them. They don't out yet, and I'm gonna get my own ride home. I was like, okay. And so she called Howard, and Howard came down the hill to get her, and I went back to the apartment. Well, somewhere in that whole thing, she was told a bunch of stuff that I found out later. And I. You know, I try not to point the finger, although a lot of fingers go in certain directions. But I. You know. So she gets on a plane in the middle of the night, and she goes first to South Carolina and then to. Later to the Bahamas. And I'm like, you know, I just literally. Even though things weren't perfect, it was the world that I knew with her. And I was navigating, and I was still literally on this roller coaster gonna be a dad.

A (40:00)

What was it that she was told that would make her leave a city that you guys had?

B (40:06)

I would find out later that she was told that I was going to take her baby from her and that I was going to then be entitled to 50 of whatever she would get from the Supreme Court that they were. It was on the line. Yeah. Because now I had. It was a. I had a different role. So I. I could get child support or I could get whatever. You know, it was like something. And it was like something that we never. It never even crossed my mind, never even came up in conversations I still thought I was fighting for, like, to be a dad. And just to be there in the. In the room. The same room that, you know, many ways that, like, you know, was great, but also tortured me. Like, I was like. I didn't know. It was like, a crazy thing. So I was like, she. You know, I would have to do a lot of investigation work, as after she left. At first it was sporadic. The conversations that she would do with me, she would get on instant message, aol. So we would. We would communicate through that. And I. I would talk to her, and I was like, you know, I would say stuff, and she would sometimes be nice, sometimes be not so nice, and then we would talk on the phone and stuff. It was just kind of a weird moment because it wasn't like, all the time. And so I had to actually sign up for 5.99amonth to go on her website because. To see for the first, you know, few weeks while she was updating after she left.

A (41:39)

Yeah.

B (41:40)

If she was okay. And then when they found out, somebody internally found out that my credit card was on there. I was canceled. And then I had to sign up through a friend's credit card to get on and see and just to see the baby.

A (41:55)

That's so hurtful.

B (41:56)

Yeah. So you go from picking out baby names, getting in the hospital, being accused of all this stuff.

A (42:02)

Yeah.

B (42:02)

You know, telling. Being told that you're an angel, being convinced now that you're the devil.

A (42:08)

Right.

B (42:09)

And then it was like all these weird things that were. I just didn't.

A (42:12)

And then the communication to just be cut off, like, that is just so crazy.

B (42:17)

And I thought, can I win? How can I win with this? You know? And so there was a lot of things that would take forever to explain, and, And, And. But I'll give you the shortest version. There were a lot of people in the mix of when she left for. I know you don't like short versions, but I'll give you the truthful version, but in a shorter form. But she. When they got into the play of this whole thing that were told one thing about me, they had interest of their own of different ways. And then it got to. People started researching the laws. How can. How can. Which laws are better for Anna in South Carolina against the father? Oh, no, the father's laws were better there. So then the plane took off and went to the Bahamas. In the Bahamas, a lady can say, you know, you know, Joe blows my dad. Baby daddy, and Joe blows the baby daddy.

A (43:11)

Right. Which is essentially what happened.

B (43:13)

Yeah. So still the press is trying to figure out what's going on. Anna goes on her website and the people that pay 5.99 get a nice message. Hi, you all, it's Anna Nicole. I just want to let you know I am pregnant. And then she goes by some guy. And I'm like, well, yeah, you know,

A (43:30)

it's like, yeah, like, thanks. This is what I've been resorted to. So at least you're getting acknowledgement, though.

B (43:36)

But it was. It was. It was weird, though, because when she said that, it was. It was her way of saying, I'm not going to say anybody's name to get famous off of me.

A (43:47)

Right.

B (43:47)

I'm going to say all. Only thing that I can say, right?

A (43:51)

And like that whole situation alone when they got out there just started getting really weird.

B (43:57)

So what happened was I got to a point where the communication with Anna started getting better and she. She would send me like these instant messages and stuff. And I really was trying we. Not to go too deep in it, but like, like we kind of had a connection about music. And Anna wasn't really a good communicator. She didn't like to say a lot of stuff. So she might just say, I want you to listen to this song. And it would be what she wanted to say, but she couldn't say.

A (44:31)

Right.

B (44:31)

You know, And I would.

A (44:32)

What would one of those songs be?

B (44:37)

Well, one of the songs actually was a kind of like a. A joke on the fact that we were always back and forth, like, and we always found our way back. And it was Here We Go Again with Nora Jones and Ray Charles. And it was like, you know, I think that one of the lines is like, here we go again. He's back in town again. We're going to make up again. It was kind of like that. But. But then there was also, like, there was all kinds of Music. But I would, like, I would make her CDs, like, you know, you'd like, make mixtapes, like back in the day.

A (45:06)

I feel like we need to bring it back. Bring back the CDs. Right. That was before. That was after your. Or before your time. Right. Haley, you had your, you had CDs burned for you. Yeah, I love, I miss that era.

B (45:21)

And you bootleg them from Napster.

A (45:23)

Yeah. Or, or what was, Wait, what was the other one? Limewire. Lime Wire.

B (45:27)

Yeah, that was the big one.

A (45:29)

That one will put porn on your phone or porn on your computer. Get a virus.

B (45:35)

So, you know, during the time she left, I was, I was like, trying to get like, how can I get a message through her? So I would send her songs and like, you know how you could go in and say the message was just read it's such and such and give you a tag. And I could track that she was reading. And then she would write me stuff back. But then she would. It got to the point where, like, we were now up to like, you know, six months, seven months pregnant. She was still gone, and then was going closer to eight. And I, There was a time where we got on the phone and stuff, and I would say to her, her number was changed four or five times.

A (46:12)

Yeah.

B (46:14)

And she would call me from the number. So I think someone else changed her number so I couldn't call the number.

A (46:19)

Right.

B (46:20)

So I was like, okay, so if you don't want me to have the number, you would block it or do whatever, you know, like, you can do all that stuff.

A (46:25)

Right.

B (46:26)

So when she called, like, some of the times she would say, you know, nice things. And then one of the last times there was a, there was a young. She asked me what I was doing, and I knew what she was doing because she was posting on the Internet.

A (46:44)

Yeah.

B (46:44)

And there were also people in the Bahamas that were kind of telling me things. And I was, you know, some of it. You, you kind of was like, is that true or is that not true? Or whatever. And, and so I, There was a time when I still had to work and I was still like, I, I'm still having a baby. I, I don't know what's going to happen, but I, I, I, I, I need money. I, I feel like, I know I keep talking about the fact that I felt inferior and I needed money, but I felt like that ever since I got in that relationship with her. And I wasn't. The gifts weren't up to snuff, and the things weren't like, Which I felt like I was, so that money was gonna fix all of it.

A (47:21)

Well, also, you know how they've pinned you in the media. I'm sure you. There's a little bit of self defense there because, you know, when I got with my husband, he literally had a van named Bertha and didn't have any money, and I made all the money, but I still get pinned the gold digger, you know, so it's like I make it known like, no, I have never been a gold digger. So I see that in you. Is that you. You want to reiterate to people like, hey, man, I never relied on this woman. I loved her for who she was and not for who she was off of, you know, Hollywood, out of Hollywood. I loved her when we would paint paintings in the bedroom and, you know, pick out baby names.

B (48:04)

Yeah, it. I don't know. So, like, during that whole time, it was just like, if you, if you imagine, like, I, you know, I know I mentioned it before, but, like, just. Just to put in perspective, you now have spent almost like two years of your life with this lady that you felt like you were building trust to. To just to. To. To love her back in return and, like, be the person that she wanted you to be for her and, and to give her these things that she wanted, and she wanted this baby and stuff. And I felt like I was actually my angel wings. I was getting my wings because I was an angel, you know, and I was like. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm doing the right thing here. And. And I felt like in many ways I was helping her. I felt like. And I don't want to make myself sound like a saint or something, but I felt like I really, truly was, like, adding something to what she was missing.

A (48:57)

Your relationship with her gave you purpose?

B (48:59)

Yeah, it did. And. And I. So I would hang on everything that she would say. I would literally. I literally lost, like, a lot of weight. Like, just nerves and stuff and not knowing what was going on and stuff. And after Anna put that video out about her being pregnant, she still didn't say who the dad was and that she, you know, was kind of tongue in cheek. I'll let you know later. Wink, wink. Next week, 599, you know, so it was like. It was, it was. It would turn the fact of us having a baby and being supposedly private into, like this commercial business to us circus, essentially, and media circus. But it was like, you know, I. I was like, I just couldn't. Couldn't believe what I was going Through. And so like all these communications and stuff, like, I. There was a time when she was about eight months pregnant and she said, what are you. What are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I'm. I'm getting ready to go to work. And I'm like, I'm. What are you, what are you working on? I'm like, well, I'm. I'm getting on a. I'm. I'm doing some photographs for a country singer. Well, who is it? And it was an up and coming singer. I had never honestly heard of her. Really nice girl. And she's no longer in the business. But I was like saying, you know, it's so and so. And I said the name and she. I don't know if she looked her up or what, and she's like, we'll go F her then. And this, this, this and this and this. And it was like a whole big thing. I was like, okay, I'm just working, you know.

A (50:31)

Yeah.

B (50:32)

And I go, I gotta go. And where are you going? We're going to this event, this concert or whatever. And she said, and this is after. She's kind of tortured me with like small updates and stuff. The last thing she said on that instant message that during that time was, don't ever fall in love again. And I was like, I think she was a bit jealous because I was getting ready to get on a tour bus or go to, you know, and this, she had looked at this girl or whatever and it really was nothing. It was a, it was a. It was like, I was like, I need some money and I gotta pay Money.

A (51:07)

Yeah, you have to work.

B (51:08)

Yeah. And so out of that, I lost contact for a few days. And then now, meanwhile, I, I had talked to some attorneys because I was like, I don't want to fight with her, but I don't know where this is going to go or whatever. And I didn't want to do anything. And I was like, I didn't want to add to the circus that was already going. So I just kind of said, still. And I said to her, you know, come home, come home, you know, please. And, and you know, it was all like, kind of like it started to get just accusations. You're the one that told the media I was pregnant. You're the reason why I had, I couldn't stay at my house. You're the. I was like, what. Who's telling you this stuff? Yeah, you know, I had an ideal, but I was like, who's telling you this? And I, I would get over One hump with her, and then we'd get to another thing.

A (51:57)

Right.

B (51:58)

So then after I lost contact with. She says, don't fall in love again. I'm sitting at home and I'm like, the. The news is going. And I'm like, there was a message that said. There was on the bottom of the ticker or whatever on the. The whatever. It's like CNN or something. It said, and Nicole's child dies in the Bahamas. And I was like, my kid's dead. Like, what happened? Like, I was thinking, like, you know, what happened? And I. I was like. I was. Everything was just spinning all around me. And I was like. I was in a state of shock, and I was like, you know, what's going on here? And it came to find out that my sister knew a singer in a band in the. In Nassau, and he knew people that was. That were in the hospital and they said that it was Anna's son. Daniel died.

A (52:54)

Yep.

B (52:55)

And so I. For a moment, I felt relieved. And then I started. I was still in shock. I would later feel guilty for being relieved about my kid, you know.

A (53:06)

Right. But it's understandable because at first your first thought was that it was your baby.

B (53:10)

Yeah. And the news still did not have that it was Daniel.

A (53:15)

Right.

B (53:16)

I had it. Like, I had the information for a while, and I was like. I was like, oh, my God, this is just going to be the it. This is end. I don't know what happened or whatever. So, you know, obviously I didn't hear from her during then, but a couple days went by and the news is still speculating what happened to Daniel, who was the last person to see. People were pointing fingers and all this stuff. And, you know, Anna's mom was out doing interviews, you know, saying. Alleging that certain people had something to do with it. And, you know, he did this and that did that. And, you know, who was the last person with her?

A (53:45)

And it was just to clarify, she had already given birth to your child, and then Daniel died three days later. Correct. Or two days later?

B (53:53)

Three.

A (53:54)

Yeah. Three days.

B (53:55)

Dalen was born the September 7th. Daniel died the 10th.

A (53:58)

The 10th. Right.

B (53:58)

But I didn't know, Remember, I didn't know that Dalen was born.

A (54:01)

Okay.

B (54:02)

I never knew it.

A (54:03)

Okay. I didn't know.

B (54:03)

Okay. Yeah. So the last I heard, because I was like, I literally. Because Howard was going out and saying, you're not the dad and you're not this, you're not that. And he went on Larry King and said he was the father.

A (54:13)

Right.

B (54:13)

Which so basically when he did that, he goes, well, did you do a DNA test, Mr. Stern? No. Well, how do you think that. Based on timing? So I was, like, starting to get mine fucked, and I was like, okay, fuck, let's go back and do this.

A (54:26)

So what a weird web that you had gotten entangled in and didn't even realize.

B (54:32)

And I. I was going back with my sister with a calendar going, okay, help me figure this out. You know, if you're this many months pregnant, you're this. And she's like, no, but there's a. There's a gap. And then you go back. And so I was like, okay, okay. And.

A (54:44)

But in your mind, you didn't think that her and Howard had ever been into.

B (54:47)

No, but when he said that, at first I laughed, honestly, when he said it, because I was like, that's because I know what Anna told me. And I. There's no way. But then when you start thinking and it's repeated and all the news is repeating it, you're like, well, could this.

A (55:00)

Are getting brainwashed about it.

B (55:01)

Yeah. Could. Could this actually have happened?

A (55:03)

But then they also get married.

B (55:05)

Yeah. So I. After doing the math, and I'm thinking, well, you know, like, obviously, like, you know, I'm not going to be, you know, stupid, like, what could have happened or whatever. Well, she. Daniel dies. Daniel's still in the morgue. You know, basically, they haven't done arrangements. And then the paternity test, I started and I gave Anna 30 days. I said privately, I said to her, I said, I'm going to give you 30 days. This is like several. I don't know, like, maybe two weeks after Daniel died. And she. I said, are you coming home with the baby? The news was reporting and people, and it was kind of tabloid, but it's enough to scare me saying that Anna wasn't feeding her baby. And there was.

A (55:47)

So by then, you did know that she had given birth?

B (55:49)

I knew she gave birth when Daniel died, finally when the news came out, because they. The purpose of him was going to see my daughter.

A (55:54)

Right.

B (55:54)

That I had never met yet. But I. I found out. And people were saying a lot of stuff, like she had these nannies, and then there was a dispute. She was in a house. There were dispute over the ownership. There was a whole thing with, like, this immigration minister. There was a lot of scandal.

A (56:09)

Right.

B (56:09)

That was just so explosive that, like, people don't even know the backstory too.

A (56:13)

No, yeah, I remember all that going on.

B (56:15)

And so, like, so during all that, she's still in this House. I gave her 30 days. She's still throwing accusations. Now she says I called Child Services on her and that she was told by someone in the government that I called Child Services. I'm like, no one told you that? Because I didn't. And then I saw her mother somewhere out in the Bahamas. By chance. Over. I was at a restaurant, and she came up. She told me.

A (56:42)

So you were. You went to the Bahamas?

B (56:44)

I went to the Bahamas finally.

A (56:46)

Yes.

B (56:46)

To talk to an attorney.

A (56:48)

Yes.

B (56:48)

But she told me that she was the one that called Child Services.

A (56:52)

Her mom did.

B (56:53)

Yeah. Her mom called because her mom was trying to fight to take the baby from Anna at the time. For what reason? Well, it was just weird or saying that she, like, Anna's in no shape. And at that time, though, I. To backtrack. I think she was more doing, like, a lot of press stuff. It wasn't until Anna died she was trying to actually take the baby. But they had. There was a lot of stuff going on between Anna and, you know, she said. She rang the doorbell. Anna said, get lost. You know, that whole thing, that was.

A (57:21)

I feel like it went 0 to 100. Like, I feel like. Like the Bahamas was literally a curse for her.

B (57:27)

Yeah.

A (57:28)

So, like, somebody did voodoo out there because her life completely fell apart.

B (57:33)

Yeah.

A (57:33)

And she never recovered.

B (57:35)

Never. And when she went to the Bahamas, I'll say this. Daniel, back home, had started experimenting with drugs with college kids. He just started driving. He got out and he was. You know. And before she left and when things were good, she was telling me, go downstairs and talk to Daniel. He didn't bring the car home. And she was having me assume, like, the dad role, you know, that Howard was out working on the case and stuff. I was thrown into that position, too. And I was like, okay, let me just go down. I'm like, hey, dude, look, I'm not going to get into it with you. My mom wants you to bring the car back. And he was losing weight. He was like. It was something with. His appearance was off.

A (58:10)

Right.

B (58:10)

And it got to the point where when she left and went to the Bahamas, he was still back doing what he was doing in the States. But, Daniel, everybody that knows Anna's story and you know this as well, that was her rock. That was her everything.

A (58:25)

Yeah.

B (58:25)

You know, and to see her.

A (58:26)

They grew up together.

B (58:28)

Yeah. And they were more like brothers and sisters in their relationship. And. And to see her, I don't want to say turn her back or ignore, but to not make him the focus.

A (58:38)

Right.

B (58:38)

And he. He had trouble getting a hold of her, he said, and you know, he told people and stuff. So there was this whole big thing with that, but. And he didn't want to come to the Bahamas. He's scared. He was scared to fly.

A (58:49)

Yeah.

B (58:49)

And it's weird. He's scared to fly, I'm scared to fly. We share the birthday. We had some similarities, but.

A (58:56)

Is that why you didn't want to fly here?

B (58:57)

Yeah, I just, I go through phases. I don't. I just don't. But I, I get it.

A (59:03)

I understand.

B (59:03)

But he went. Daniel went to the Bahamas and you know, after he passes away and stuff, it's just, he's. He's supposed to be buried in the Bahamas. But there's a lot of press stuff going on and a lot of people. Because the ratings are through the roofs on all these shows. They can't get enough of it. I know. And it was on every channel night after night. And it wasn't just like entertainment tv, it was Fox News, cnn, and, you know, it was like the next big scandal. And so because of that, a lot of people were paying for access to Anna and she was. Media deals were being arranged, you know, on her behalf. And maybe she did some on her own. I don't know, I wasn't there. But a lot of stuff in the past, she didn't really do her own deals.

A (59:50)

Right.

B (59:50)

But I've been told that she might have done some of these herself, but I don't know.

A (59:55)

Right.

B (59:55)

Because I wasn't there. But I, I do know, like, you know, I knew money was not free flowing for her before she left. I knew that everything depended upon the next job.

A (60:08)

That's why she started the website.

B (60:10)

Yeah. Well, and I, I think that, I think that was one of the things, because she thought was going to be the next big thing. I think she was kind of a little bit ahead of her time in some ways. But yeah, I think also it was kind of like, you know, fu to E, you know, like, I'll do my own show. Even though they had a good relationship, but they were doing specials and stuff, she thought she wanted 100% of the pie instead of, you know, a piece of it.

A (60:33)

Right.

B (60:34)

So. And maybe she was smart, I don't know. But at the end of the day, everything seemed to center around deals.

A (60:40)

Right.

B (60:40)

So Daniel still on the morgue, I want to say, you know, weeks have passed, you know, then Anna and Howard show up on the COVID of People magazine and there she's in a white wedding dress and he's you know, in the boat, and then, you know, they're jumping off a boat and all this stuff. And the medium different people started to say, hey, look, something's not right with this. Her son's still in the morgue. Has he been buried? Like, what's. You know? And then.

A (61:05)

Yeah, it was just.

B (61:06)

It was weird.

A (61:06)

Weird.

B (61:07)

But the timing of it was critical because the government was getting ready to grant my paternity test in the Bahamas.

A (61:17)

Right.

B (61:17)

The states were having trouble doing it because she purposely did not come back to the U.S. right. So I had dueling actions going on. And so in the Bahamas, they were like, the heat was on them and they don't care about celebrity. Like, as you know, it's like people live there, they're celebrities that live there, but it's not like they're focused and. But they didn't like the fact that. That this basically kind of was essentially being played out. It's kind of like a kidnapping, a post birth kidnapping or pre birth even. Maybe.

A (61:48)

Yeah.

B (61:48)

So they were like, let's just get this over with. So they ordered the paternity test two weeks prior to Anna passing away. And when I talked to her, you know, I would go back and forth and stuff, and it was.

A (62:03)

You guys were still talking during this.

B (62:05)

Still talking. I sent the baby Christmas presents for the first Christmas I didn't get to see her, you know, and I. I imagine, if you will, going through everything that I went through and picking out names and the ultrasounds and the fear and the not knowing and the.

A (62:24)

What was the name that you guys originally picked out together?

B (62:28)

Originally? Well, Hannah Nicole, after Hannah, you know, play on her name. And then she would come back and she'd say, I, like, well, we didn't know. I didn't know if it's a boy or girl at that time. So we were like, nico, if it's a boy, we're like just throwing names out. Then she suggested cherry pie. And I'm like, okay, do you want this to start off the wrong way from the get go? You know, So I talked her out of cherry pie. And then, you know, obviously, as when she was in the Bahamas, I had no say at all.

A (63:00)

Right.

B (63:00)

So when the baby was born and the mystery still was about the paternity, the baby was given Howard's name, last name Stern. And they had just did that ceremony. And then the baby was taken to be baptized and given a certificate under the name Stern. So this was like, kind of like building like a history of, you know, relationship. And then I look like the squawking crazy ex boyfriend stalker back in the States. That was, you know, whatever. Meanwhile, even while Anna's getting in, like, she's getting in wedding dresses and stuff, she was wearing this necklace that I had, one that she bought for me. And she. I was talking to her, I'm like, what's this with you jumping off of a boat and you're getting married, I'm having to look at all this stuff. And she's like, I will. I sent you a signal. And I was wearing the necklace. It was like more mind games and stuff, you know, and it was like. And. But then she'd go like two conversations next to like, you know, you did this, you did that. I'm like, listen, you're. And I. And here's the thing.

A (64:01)

Do you think she was heavily, heavily medicated?

B (64:04)

Not at, not at some of the times, no. Like the times that we were having, like really lucid, good conversations. There was one time, and here's the thing, I had to go against the grain of everything that I had previously said. The role that I played is like the secret keeper. And like, you know, because she was so paranoid about different things, always thinking her phones were tapped or whatever. Yeah. Well, I was trying to woo her back and I got a letter from an attorney in the Bahamas. It said, your client is sexually harassing my client and if it doesn't stop, your client will spend X amount of days in jail. And this is the fine and blah. It was like a letter and I was like, oh, I'm not going to get to see my kid again. So somebody that was working with me said, why don't you tape record the phone conversations and just keep them. So you know that if something comes up that you didn't, that you did, that you. You're not gonna go to jail.

A (64:53)

Right.

B (64:54)

Because at that time there was a lot of like Anna was, you know, in. Literally in bed in some pictures with like people of the political party, the immigration ministers, all kinds of different stuff that was being alleged.

A (65:06)

There was other people coming forward about Princess. What's Joshua Gavor's husband? Like, who's that guy? He says, sometimes I'm bad boy, you know, and it's like, what are we? Like, where did you come from, dude?

B (65:19)

And. And the thing is, is like he was one. There was another theory that there was frozen sperm from the oil man. That was. That a relative started and sold that

A (65:27)

to a 90 year old man.

B (65:29)

Yeah.

A (65:29)

Like, come on.

B (65:30)

And then there was one person who was in jail for stalking who hadn't seen her in years. So. But out of that whole thing, those are things that are still on Anna's Wikipedia page. So my daughter's like, dad, why are all these guys on. You know, I was like, dale. And that's just unfortunately how it goes. Yeah. I said, you know, of all that list, there's one person that went to court to fight for you. Yeah, it was me. You know, and those people, like, ignore all that. So I had to teach her, like,

A (65:57)

the whole thing and this media and stuff.

B (66:00)

But so anyway, so out of, like, you know, when Daniel hadn't been buried, the. The wedding's going on, this. All this stuff. There's. Every night you flip a channel. So I had sent the baby Christmas presents, and I really. I. It was a point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna try to send this. I don't know if she's gonna accept them. I bought a bunch of clothes. I Stuff. And I put a note in there for her, and I said. It was in a. With a dvd. It was the movie the Grinch that Stole Christmas. And I said, just. And it was a. Kind of a joke, but kind of me, like, saying, hey, you. You stole my Christmas with my daughter. But I was like, hey, hey, Grinch. Hope you're doing well, and just want. Please give these to the baby. And, you know, and so I called her, and it was during this whole thing where I was accused of sexual harassment stuff. And I was like, did you. And she was. It was one of the best conversations we had. And I said, did you get the presents? Yeah, I got them. And she went through stuff, and I was like, what are you gonna. And I was so nervous because I. I was like, are you gonna let her wear them? And yes. And. And I. I tried to talk a little bit vague because if I said something forward, she was gonna say she thought I was trapping her. But I actually, honestly, unfortunately had to record. Record the phone calls.

A (67:25)

Right.

B (67:26)

So I. I was trying. I was.

A (67:27)

At this point, you're having to protect yourself.

B (67:29)

Yeah, I was nervous. Yeah. I felt like I was being set up for something, you know? And I was like. So she's like, yeah, they were pretty and blah, blah. So she goes through all that. So I'm sitting there, and that same night, I turn on Entertainment Tonight, and she's. Anna's sitting on a couch next to Howard, and they have the box of the presents, and they said, the. Mark Stein is with entertainment. And I. And he's like, you know, Anna, tell me, do you Think this is weird that he would send presents to your kid? And Anna looks at Howard and he looks at her, and she goes, yeah. And it was like, almost like, okay, what the just happened?

A (68:05)

You're like, what is happening?

B (68:06)

Well, and I felt like she was coached by someone to say that it was creepy and I was a stalker, basically.

A (68:13)

Wow.

B (68:13)

Yeah.

A (68:14)

So kind of makes you wonder if the other dude was really a stalker.

B (68:18)

Well, yeah. So. So. So basically that was the. That I was dealing with for, like. And it was just like mind game after mind game. No. My health was dwindling. I wind up in the middle of this, getting, like, some kind of parasite. When I went down to the Bahamas, I. I was like, sick as a dog. I felt like was on death's door. And I was like, I kind of

A (68:39)

had, what's going down in the Bahamas, man?

B (68:41)

What's that?

A (68:41)

I said, what is going down in the Bahamas?

B (68:43)

And I had enough. And I was like, you know what? I'm tired of being Mr. Nice Guy about this. I've got to fight for my daughter. I gave her 30 days. She didn't come back. I don't know that she's ever going to recover from Daniel. And every time I talk to her, I don't care if it was a good conversation or a bad conversation, there's one topic I didn't bring up and was Daniel. I knew if I said the word Daniel on the phone that it was gonna go. Everything was gonna implode.

A (69:07)

Yeah.

B (69:07)

I knew I couldn't do it. Yeah, it did come up a couple times, and. But I. I didn't bring it up myself. And. And so I. You know, the thing is, is that trying to woo back and trying to do this and all the music and the songs and everything I sent, it was like. It was like nothing. It's going nowhere. So finally I went and I. I filed a lawsuit and I. In Los Angeles, and there was this whole big press conference, and. And I was like, oh, shit, the shit has hit the fan now.

A (69:37)

Yeah.

B (69:37)

And my name started getting all over the place.

A (69:40)

I remember the press conference.

B (69:41)

Yeah. And so the thing was, like, there was like, a statement made to Anna Nicole, and I'm talking to you, Anna Nicole, and you bring that. You know, it's like. So it was like, oh, shit, this is gone. This is going nuclear now, you know?

A (69:57)

Yeah.

B (69:58)

No turning back. And I'm sitting there going, you know, And I literally left the press conference and threw up in the trash can, you know, like. Like, I was like. I was like, it's nowhere that I wanted to be, you know?

A (70:08)

Yeah, but I mean, at this point, you were doing everything right to fight for your daughter.

B (70:13)

Yeah. And honestly, after I did that got Anna's attention. I don't know if it was the best attention, but I got her attention because I. I said to her, and we were still talking even after I filed a lawsuit against her. Nobody really wanted us to talk, but I was still talking to her because I still thought in my mind, there's a way to. You loved her. Well, there's a way to fix this. And I knew, because I knew and I said this. And there's hours of this stuff. No one's heard these calls and stuff. But I'll tell you, in one of the calls, I do say to her, if. You know, and I know if I was in front of you right now, this wouldn't be happening. If you were in the same room with me, I said, you've been pushed away from me, and you're listening to people that are telling you things to do, and it's getting you a lot of trouble. And I'm like. And we went back and forth about that, and there was a point where she was going to come back, and we talked about it. She, you know, still kind of a little cocky, you know, and. And I said, look, Anna, I didn't say the word Daniel, but I say, we're both losers here. And I said, I don't know, my daughter. You lost your son. And I. I was like, don't say Daniel. And I was like, but that. And that was bold for me to say, you know, because I was like, I was avoiding it. And she said, larry, how am I a loser? I'm the second most searched person in the world right now. And it was still about the press. And I was like, oh. I was like, okay, ground control to major time. Like, this is done. Like, we're like, you know, like, this is not. It's not registering.

A (71:53)

She lost. She lost. You know, the reality.

B (71:57)

Yes.

A (71:58)

It was caught up in numbers. And, yeah, Google searches and notoriety and fame.

B (72:04)

And so we. This. The court thing played out back and forth. I had two different things. I had California going, I had Bahamas going. One would say I'd get a little leverage with one. And then the judge was like, oh, yeah, but she's not in the States. Then the Bahamas thing started, and then they ordered the DNA test. She had two weeks to do it before she passed away. And we had a conversation about that. And she was telling me how much money she was Spending on attorneys. And she's like, you know, why do you want me back? And she was the whole big thing. But in those tapes, which I didn't really want to ever do, there's so much acknowledgement of what was really going on, the dynamics with the whole thing, right? Her true knowledge about what happened, what she really knew, versus what the world thought they had to find out through a DNA test. It was a true acknowledgment. Not all good, but even the good and the bad about the relationship, the reasons why. And I'm actually glad that I have those. And I've never done anything with them because I've said, you know, Dannielyn hasn't heard any of these. She hasn't seen all this stuff. She hasn't. All this stuff. There's a project we're working on, trying to get it all together, because I sit back and watch people kind of steal Anna's and hijack her voice. And then, as I'm concerned, put me to test over my daughter.

A (73:22)

Right.

B (73:23)

In a relationship that I know I gave my all for. You know, it wasn't perfect. And I think people misread that sometimes, and they think, well, you're trying to sell us on some love story. You know, there was a lot of. The press was hard on me at first.

A (73:35)

It is your love story. Yeah, it is your love story. And that's okay, you know, like, don't ever let them steal the plot from you. You lived it. You know what you guys had. So don't ever minimize it just to make a documentary happy. This is your love story. And you tell it, scream it from the mountaintops. Even if it was toxic, it's still your love story.

B (73:57)

And it. It. I was like. And I was thinking, you know, well, all this stuff was never meant to see the light of day. But if you want to push me and where you cross the line, you know, this person or that production or whoever it was, is that you said to the world that the daughter that I had, that I fought for tooth and nail to the point where it just literally, physically, mentally, financially broke me down to fight and go through the fire to rescue that girl that was born really in a relationship that was not always great, but it was love. It was the love we had, you know, and you're going to take that down and say that this was a transactional.

A (74:37)

Right.

B (74:38)

Thing that I was like. And the thing with that was what they said about me on that show was that basically the guy can't say he's the Father. Okay. Which was. That's true. No guy. That was what they got. Right. But that I was put in a separate bedroom. I didn't sleep in the same bedroom with Anna.

A (74:55)

Yeah.

B (74:55)

And that I should have been in on it. So, like, what was the payoff? And they said he got no money. So what was the payoff for a guy to, like, is just to be held captive in a room? And the sex with an Nicole maybe. I don't know. But they never paid off. Why they really said that.

A (75:10)

Right.

B (75:10)

And it was from people that really didn't know me, that wasn't. They weren't in the house. Since then. There's other people that have taken. That have called themselves friends who have rigged photo shoots with phony seances and, you know, things that, like, we're going to, you know, and sold the rights to them and sold pictures of her last dress that she wore in the casket, you know, whatever. And there's people that, like, couldn't believe that their paycheck was over. People that were she actually hired to help her at one point. But I'll say this. There were people that kind of elevated themselves in the show. There are also people that actually got a hall pass because when Anna's son passed away and she wasn't pretty much told not to go back to the States, there was a whole cast of crew of people that were brought in to cheer up. And we're going to have a party and we're going to have a baby shower. We're going to have this. We're going to have, you know, whatever it was a birthday party, you know, we're going to. And so you don't have to go back to the state. See how great it is here, you know.

A (76:08)

Yeah.

B (76:08)

And so those people. And some of them were actually fired, let go, told not, you know, we don't need your services, but because she was so desperate in that moment, they were allowed back in. And a lot of people, not all, but a lot of people have shown themselves and their true colors since then. And, you know, and you had said

A (76:25)

something about Mo earlier. What are your feelings on it?

B (76:28)

Well, here's the thing. I, you know, he has gone out and taken a lot of swipes at me in the press. I've really had no problem with him during the relationship. You know, he would always say, hey, give me those pictures of me and Anna. You know, it was kind of. He was really showy, you know, for. For a bodyguard and, you know, and. And stuff like that. But he. There was a whole Period of. There was a period. We were in Vegas, and there was something that happened that I'm not going to go into, but he was no longer her bodyguard. She had other bodyguards. It was. He didn't come back until after, you know, Anna went to the Bahamas, and she was desperate for stuff. So since then, we had issues. He had a publicist. He was gonna write a book. He had a song out called Baby Girl. You know, everybody was doing their thing and spinning projects off of this and stuff. And he was in the. There was a show called the last 48 hours, where he played himself, and he's sweating and I'm gonna come to you, baby girl. I'm gonna get, you know, like, you know, and it's like, reenacting the whole death stuff and, you know, and whatever. I mean. But the people that had a beef with me that have taken swipes and stuff or not, people that really. That I had an issue with so much when Anna was alive. When Anna died and I got my daughter, there was a shift to where people felt like I was in control of all things Anna. And that because of my daughter, like, on her behalf or whatever, you. You know what it was like, you know, a quote or something happened. If something happens in the press, the legal stuff, they would come to me and say, hey, or. And people got mad because there was interest in how I was raising my daughter.

A (78:04)

Right.

B (78:04)

And that there was media interest. So then that was. They were. They almost like they were watching it from afar, going, that should be me.

A (78:13)

Weird jealousy thing.

B (78:14)

Yeah. So then out of that, people would take swipes at me, like, you know, the ones that did not all. I'm friends with a lot of people. That what my motto was after, you know, Anna passed away, and this included even Anna's mom.

A (78:26)

Yeah.

B (78:26)

I said anybody. And Howard was included in this. Anybody that wants to help me and be a part of this in a positive way, you know, I'm open to anybody helping me. But Anna's mom actually trapped me in the Bahamas. She tried to take the baby after Anna died, that she had an attorney who was just filing lawsuits left and right. And she was trying to say that I was an unfit dad, but she's

A (78:57)

such a fit mother.

B (78:59)

So the problem was, is that because of that, I had private investigators follow me. I had people, like, just follow me. Everywhere I went, there were calls made to Child Services, you know, on me. And where they busted in the middle of the night, they waited till, like, I went. I rarely went out. And when I was a new Dad, I was like, okay, I. I'm kind of getting back on track. I do need to have a little bit of fun. I went out a couple nights, and of course, like, we went somewhere. There were paparazzi there. Well, once it was on TMZ that I was out, my house simultaneously was getting raided by child services, and they were pulling my daughter's diaper down to check her and to say that she was being abused and that I was living in a drug den. There were so many things that is. I mean, if you knew the whole. It was like the story is so effing crazy that, like, I don't even know how I got through it all. And sometimes I. I say, did that happen? And then I, I.

A (79:52)

Because you were literally living in fight or flight and survival mode.

B (79:55)

Yeah. And if it wasn't for Danny Lynn being here in the present, I would say did, did. Did I dream all that?

A (80:04)

Was it a fever dream?

B (80:05)

Yeah. Did it happen?

A (80:07)

Can you tell me about your last conversation with Anna before her death? The very last phone call that you guys had or communication?

B (80:16)

Well, one of the. One of the last times it was. It was where the judge was getting ready to give the paternity test, and it was where I was begging her to come home, and she asked me, why. Why do you want me back if I'm such a drug whore? And I'm like, I never said you were a drug whore. And I think, you know, every little message that we had sent to each other email was being saved for later for, like, evidence or this, that or whatever someone wanted to use it for. So somebody went back through and like, when things get heated, you say something, I say something, or whatever. Like, you know, and. And some of the emails I actually had to read in court when there was the burial trial, she called me a scum bucket. And I said, I'd rather be a scum bucket than a cum bucket. And so I was like, yeah, so like, just little stuff like that.

A (81:07)

I mean, you guys were in a toxic relationship, so.

B (81:10)

Yeah, so it was like, you know, it wasn't like it was one of those things. So, like, things that were said in the heat of the moment, like, were them being used against me or whatever, but, like, when the last conversation I had with her was, you know, the. Pretty much me just wooing her back and telling her that she was in trouble, and I. I don't know that I had a feeling that she was going to be in trouble. I said, if you love that baby, you better get out of there. And because it just. I, I didn't think it was going to end great. And maybe a part of me was trying to scare her back home too, you know, like, I don't. I mean, in just all honesty, but I. There were plans that we were going to meet up at some point when she came home, she came home for a, A mediation in the case against her husband. And she was. She purposely left the baby in the Bahamas. Now that should tell you a lot because you just lose your son, your mom, you don't leave your only kid. You know, you fly with them, you bring a nanny if you have to, if you're not able to take care. But it was a chess move on the jurisdiction of the baby, so the baby could not have any contact. So she came back and was good enough for someone to send her to a mediation to mediate about the money. And we were going to meet up then and it didn't work out. And it went back to, you did this, but you did that. And it was one of those things where I know that Anna, I'd seen her cut people off just cold turkey. Whether it was her mom or whether it was whoever, an employee, whatever. The thing I will say which people don't understand and that really. And I think it's partly because the way it was clouded in the media about, you know, the speculation of who's the dad or did you even date this girl? You know, is that she. She. You know, I don't know what I was saying.

A (83:15)

Anyways, I was talking about you guys last phone call, but you had said that she, you had seen her cut people off.

B (83:23)

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So sorry. I'm. I'm such a visual person that I'm visual. Every time I'm talking, I'm visualizing these scenes and I'm like, I probably should be like a. Some kind of a psychic or anything.

A (83:38)

The fact that you can remember the things that you remember has been mind blowing to me. Like it's a borderline photographic memory.

B (83:45)

Well, I wrote, I. I wrote. I didn't know that I was going to remember forever. And what I did was I wrote them all down, a lot of things down. And I said, you know, people have asked me to do a book and stuff and I said, I don't, you know, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to write the. I don't know, it's so crazy. I don't know if people would believe half the stuff because there's so much. And I said, my mom when my mom passed away from cancer, I was. There was. There's so much things I probably thought I wanted to ask her that I never did. And I thought, well, I want to write this down. Even if I put it in a box just for Danny Lynn. Yeah. Because of the. The misinformation that's floating out there.

A (84:22)

Oh, absolutely.

B (84:23)

But what I was getting at about Anna and cutting people off, what I was thinking was that, you know, she cut so many people off in her life, you know, and just walked away from them, and that was it, you know, and there was something that we had that wasn't always great, but it was something that connected us, that she

A (84:46)

never cut you off.

B (84:47)

It didn't matter if she was wearing a wedding dress and saying she was marrying somebody else. It was like, it didn't matter what was going on.

A (84:52)

Yeah.

B (84:53)

She did not say, get lost. You know, numbers changed, emails, all this stuff that was happening that I didn't know that I don't think that she was doing. She still found a way to call me and contact and communicate with me. And so, you know, after. When I found out that she died, I was actually sitting in a dentist chair. And it was like, up to two. We had, like, two weeks before the paternity stuff. I think we were getting real close. And, you know, I. I was. My mouth was half numb, and I was. They had the TV over, you know, like you said in there. And I was watching the. The cable station or whatever, and the bottom said. And they interrupted and said, you know, Anna Nicole is. Collapses. It said in hotel room. I'm like, oh, my God, she's trying to get out of doing the paternity test. And here we go. This is another PR stunt, you know, and like. Yeah, because I had been on the end of camping some of those, you know.

A (85:51)

Yeah.

B (85:51)

You know, and so I'm like, okay, here we go. Yeah, good one, Anna. Yeah, right. You know, and I sat there, and then the dentist was, like, still going, and I was like. And it got the. More information. More information. And I. I was like, wait a second. They came in and he said, anna Nicole has died. And I was like. I got up and I left and I went back to the apartment and I went into the bedroom and her stuff was still sitting in there. And it was like. It was just. I was in shock. And then because of the media, always knew how to get a hold of me from my job. There were people camped out in my house within minutes, and I couldn't get out of the garage. I Couldn't leave. I couldn't. You know, and so it. It was a whole thing where it went into, like, this whole just state of disbelief. And I actually said. I. I said, I'm gonna save her. I'm gonna go get her. I'm gonna save her. She had been announced dead. But I. In my mind, I said no. I said. I. I said to myself, I can fix this. Because I was in fix it mode. Like, how could you do this if you were an angel? You didn't. You know, there's. Your job's not done. You still can fix this. And it got to the point where it. I. You know, I literally knew she was dead. But I was thinking in my. I was in denial about it. And then it became the whole thing. Now, paternity still wasn't established yet because, you know, people were still doing that whole mystery thing. And she. Obviously, she didn't do the test yet. So then, as far as. From a legal standpoint, the stakes were higher, and the pressure was higher on the Bahamas, and everybody wanted to try to get this over with. Anna's mother was in the race. There was a whole big thing about that. There was a burial trial about where Anna's body should be buried. I got drug into that. Then the judge from that was, you know, crying on the stand, and then he comes off and says that the baby can have the decision. I actually was aligned with Howard that Anna should be buried with her son.

A (88:10)

Yeah.

B (88:10)

But it was hard for me to align with Howard because Howard was the one in my mind that was causing all this stuff. But I was being honest. And. And so when the whole case was over, Anna's mom was fighting trying to get her buried to Texas, moved to Texas, because she said if she goes to Texas, then they. They. Her attorney said that marshal money is in our backyard in Texas. We can, you know, go in there and get that money. You know, that's kind of what they. It was all about money. And so it was just. It was wild. And so when she. It was decided she was going to be buried in the Bahamas, there was a shift. And I had been, like, drugged through the mud in the media. There was like, you know, I turned on. Nancy Grace was like, who's that Kevin Federline looking guy gonna come out here and steal all that money? And, you know, there was car. There was caricatures of me on the witness stand holding a bag of money and had, like, a, you know, sinister look on my face. There was all kinds of stuff. You name it. People were saying about me. And I was like, all because she. Anna hadn't even gotten the money yet. She was in line maybe to get it, but I was dating her during the time. There was a moment, and it's actually was captured by Inside Edition on camera, but which I paid the price for later because it was actually filmed. But when they came in the room New Year's Eve that year and said Anna was not going to get any money because it kind of went back and forth. It was like 15 years of crap. And I said to her, I said, listen, hold your head up high. Go out there and do what you do, and let's have just a great New Year's Eve and let's. I know it's tough. I can't imagine what you're feeling right now. And during that moment, she was on the stage and she. They do the countdown, and she was like a. She was paid to, like, kind of like be an appearance at the nightclub and of all places, it was at the Hard Rock, where she would later die. But she comes off the stage, they're counting down, and she grabs me and she kisses me, and there's tons of camera, you know, and, like, flashes and stuff. And I'm like, oh. I was like. But I. There was a part of me, like I had done the. Oh, shit enough that I was like, fuck it, you know, And I was like, finally. Yeah. And so, like, I. We had that moment and I was like. But I. It was more for me to give her that sense of security, that whatever she was dealing with, with the money stuff was going to be okay.

A (90:36)

Yeah.

B (90:36)

I don't know how I was going to solve it, because I didn't make that kind of money. But I was trying to assure her that, like, love is everything. You know, you're loved, this is great, and, you know, and things will be better and whatever. And so I had been through that whole situation where there was no money on the line, that when people didn't even know I was dating her. It wasn't until, like, later in the relationship that they actually. The Supreme Court said they were going to take her case, which she ultimately lost. It went twice to the Supreme Court. The pro. The thing was, with the Supreme Court, she was pregnant when she went to the Supreme Court, and nobody knew she was pregnant, right. So she had her trench coat on and she was like, all business. And they told her, don't talk to the press and don't make this kind of like an appearance. You want to be serious, want to be taken seriously. Or whatever. So nobody knew except, you know, me, her Howard Daniel and her assistant. And at that time still, and we were watching Entertainment Tonight, it was like a glowing Anna Nicole enters the Supreme Court. I'm like, if you only knew why she was glowing. But, you know, and so, but, but the whole thing, I think what I, I think some of the people, there's misconceptions about, you know, I live my life every day and I raise my daughter and obviously her mom's name is going to come up a lot. You know, I'm not sitting around every day because we don't have that kind of, we have that relationship, but we don't have that type of dialogue about her mom. Because when Dannielyn was young and she was, you know, just a baby, people from that point forward, you know, come up and, you know, talk, oh, your mom was this, your mom was that. And she is appreciative of it, but it has overwhelmed her for, you know, so long that people come up and not that she doesn't appreciate it, but

A (92:27)

when shadow that she kind of has to live in.

B (92:30)

And then as she got older and even really when she was a baby, you know, the spitting image of Anna Nicole, the next Anna Nicole. What's she gonna do next? Follow in her mom's footsteps? She did one modeling thing I got drugged through the mud for.

A (92:44)

Right.

B (92:46)

But I said to people it was a one off thing for her to mark her mom's guest campaign as a tribute. And people had their opinions. A lot of people enjoy the pictures. But then beyond that, when she steps out, we don't do anything. We go to the derby. Now we go back and I take her back. And at first it was kind of like me going back home. The party that I got hung up on, they were like, oh, please, please come. Like, it's like whatever you want.

A (93:16)

You've kicked down door.

B (93:17)

Yes.

A (93:18)

You're not gonna get hung up on ever again.

B (93:19)

Yeah. You know, would you like some caviar with that?

A (93:23)

You know, come on in.

B (93:24)

But, but we, you know, I, I started, I went back and I, I took Danny Lynn. A year. One year, I think the babysitter sitter canceled on me. And I was like, okay, you just throw a dress on, whatever. And then after that, she fell asleep in my arm. She was still drinking a bottle, I think. And then after that she got older and I took her a couple times and I was like, oh. You know, and it became a tradition. But it was also in my mind a way to kind of pay tribute because that's the place I met her mom.

A (93:52)

Yeah.

B (93:53)

You know, and it took us all back to that. She had her first birthday party in the house at the Barnstable house where I met her mom. You know, we. I raised her in Kentucky. I first took her to California, and paparazzi followed us all the time. She was in preschool, and there were hordes of people just waiting out. We had to, like, duck in ice cream shops, got run off the road, you know, and it was just. I couldn't take her to the playground. Like, kids got to play. So I moved her out of that and took her back to Kentucky to raise her. You know, I put her in the same public school system that I went to. It was because I thought it was a great system. It was. It was. I got to experience all types of people, and people were like, well, you should put her in private and you should do this. And then when she was old enough, I gave her a choice. You know, do you. What do you want to do? Do you want to. No, I want to go. Because I have friends from this background, that background, and she got to experience everything. And it wasn't, like, about status or because your mom was this or that or whatever. It was like. So I feel like, you know, is scattered as I am and add and whatever. I've done a lot of different things, like, in jobs and careers and. And, you know, I don't know that I was ever great at one thing because my attention gets shifted. But I think I've been good at being a dad, and I think that I put a lot of effort into that. I've been at every pickup and drop off at school, every girl Scout meeting, every field trip. I'm the dad with the cupcakes coming in and ripping the sticker off, saying, I bought them, you know, I mean, I made them that I didn't buy them. And I'm like, throwing the, you know, receipt in my.

A (95:33)

One thing the world cannot deny is that you really stepped up to the plate as a father. And, I mean, she literally is in college now. She's sitting downstairs. I got to meet her. She's a beautiful girl, and she's so sweet and so shy and so well mannered, and that's all a testament of you.

B (95:50)

Thank you.

A (95:50)

And, I mean, if the world can't look at this story that you have lived and the legacy that you and Anna made together, and when I say legacy, I'm talking about, you know, little nugget that's downstairs. You know, I don't know what else people could possibly want from you, because your actions have proven way more than your words ever have.

B (96:14)

I think that, you know, and I appreciate that. I, I. You know, I never thought I was going to do this alone. And it didn't hit me until I took her to kindergarten and I filled out the forms to enroll her, and it's. I put my information down, and it said the mothers. And I had to write the word deceased, you know, across the page. And I had to go from shifting mentally from, you know, birthday parties, you know, without our mom, to picking out tombstones, to, you know, trying to see if I could get the right. An amount of pink that Anna would like for her to wear and putting all the outfits that Anna saved on her for all these years. And, you know, when she was going through her career and modeling and grabbing stuff from different countries and making sure she wore every one of them and trying to figure out, like, you know, be the bumbling dad and work my way through things like girl issues that a mom would talk to the girl about and. And things where I kind of felt inadequate, you know, and. But I tried my best on how can you do. How can you do this? Pay, you know, tribute and give her a life that, you know, Anna would have wanted her have, but give her also opportunities that Anna didn't have and to give her a foundation and a core and try to be, you know, we're not perfect. I have same issues that Anna's family, some issues that, you know, my family in different ways. And, you know, it's like, all families have issues, and it's not. I'm not pretending that we're perfect in any ways. And I know Anna had challenges. I just try my best to see if I can. I can raise the bar a little bit.

A (97:52)

Yeah. Yeah, I think you've raised the bar. What is dating like for you? Because you've never been photographed with, like, another woman since this happened?

B (98:02)

Like, pretty much dry. Like, I don't want to sound like Anna. Go. I haven't had sex in two years,

A (98:10)

but I feel like that is, like, that's your choice because you're so shy.

B (98:15)

Well, I mean, here's the thing. The shortest version of this is. Is that when I got Danny Lynn, I went straight into Danny Lynn. I spent the first five years in disbelief that I went through what I went through.

A (98:28)

Yeah.

B (98:28)

And it wasn't like I waited and sat there and waited and was counting the days. I looked up in five years past, then I looked up in 10 years past, and then I Look back and look. There's things that's messed with my head. There's some, like, probably that a therapist would probably have to figure out as far as what I went through and what, you know, the. The things like, you know, don't fall in love again echo in my head, you know, that she said. Not that I'm, like, sitting around, and I think because of that, but to answer your question, like, there's been some dates. There's not been a lot. I've gone from tragedy to tragedy to tragedy. After, you know, six months after I got Dannielynn, my dad passed away. Then, you know, I had my mom's health issue. She lost a lung that I had to help nurse her back to health. Then my nephew came to live with me. His father passed away. So I really had kind of two kids. Then, you know, I go from that, and my sister died, and I had an aunt die, and I had. So I'd, Like, I've gone. I've had houses burned down that I flipped, and I've got, you know, I go from one thing, and as soon as I get a little piece, right. Something else happens. So I'm just waiting, honestly, a lot of times for something. The shoe to drop or something to happen, but I haven't dedicated a lot of time to that. And I think, to be honest, when. Now that Danielyn's in college.

A (99:39)

Yeah. What does dad do now? Well, honestly, empty nester it.

B (99:43)

And I think that's when it. To me, it started when I. When she went to college. The first day, I was like, oh, well, I knew that I. I felt good, that I sacrificed and I did what I did for her, but I felt like a part of me kind of died that day when Anna died. Like, I feel like that I. And I don't mean that in a weird way because I think a lot of people. That. A lot of people get it because a lot of people have lost people and they love people. What people don't understand. And there's the. The biggest problem that I have with some of the things that the haters. And you do a great job of dealing with haters. Probably should get some tips. Not that you have a lot of haters, but I'm saying, you know how to put them.

A (100:29)

I do. I got enough.

B (100:30)

You gotta put them in their place. But, like, I, you know, I. I try not to read crap, but. But I. You know, the other day, it was the 19th anniversary of Anna's passing, and I was. Was literally sick as a dog, and I was like, you know, I didn't feel great. The fans are always going, what are you gonna do? You know what? And sometimes you don't want to feel like you're on somebody else's schedule to grieve a certain way or whatever. But I have this other tightrope thing of way of trying to make sure Anna's legacy lives on, you know, and, and her fans feel like that she's, you know, remember properly. But I was laying in bed and I was, I just woke up and I turned on the television and the Naked Gun was on with Anna in it. And it was like, is this a sign?

A (101:12)

Of course it is.

B (101:13)

And I'm like, Anna. And I go, wow. And I thought, okay, this is, this is how I'm remembering her. Like in my own way. I, I did post something and I posted, you know, like the picture. Like I took a screenshot of the TV and I was like, this is like a cool sign that happened today. I said something. I try to be vague with, not vague, but like, I don't want people to think I'm trying to sell them on something about Anna, you know, like, it's like, because it's really none of their business. But I do want to make sure that people know I remember her, you know.

A (101:43)

Right. But you also want to make sure that it doesn't get made into a headline too.

B (101:47)

But the thing is, is like I had some like haters say, you know, what's this bs? I'm glad your daughter didn't stick around or hasn't seen this bimbo's about Anna. Like, I'm like, and then I look at this person, who is this person? And it said follow back, like they're following me. Yeah, you're saying that. And by the way, in your bio it says you're a Christian. I'm like, yeah, you know, it's like,

A (102:07)

yeah, you know, so. But I, those are my favorite.

B (102:09)

But I do, I have a ton of people that are like positive in support, but the people that are negative are negative because I think not all of them. You're entitled to your own opinion. But a lot of people, because of the way that it went down with the mystery of the paternity, they think that I got lucky off a one night stand and hit a DNA lottery out of all those seven guys in the prison. Prince Von all. Whatever.

A (102:30)

Yeah, yeah, that dude.

B (102:31)

So they think, why in the world do you have any authority to speak about, you know, Anna Nicole? And who do you think you are? Because, you know, that's Kind of like, what are. Are you're obsessed with it. And what I'm saying is, like. Like, I don't mind talking in this venue about Anna Nicole. We. Like I said, we. We barely do any press. We stick. We do the derby. We.

A (102:50)

I have never heard half of the stuff that you talked about today on the podcast. Like, I. You have been such a vault when it comes to discussions about her that I feel so blessed that you even came here and did this interview. So, I mean, for anybody to think that after listening to this entire story from you, to think that you have any obsession, you have every right to be obsessed with the mother of your child.

B (103:14)

Yeah. I mean, I grieve and I grieve and maybe my grief is longer than most people. I don't know. I'm not sitting around every day going, oh, my God, I'm obsessed, or whatever.

A (103:22)

But a piece of your heart is missing.

B (103:24)

Yeah. And that's okay. I mean, I know I'm going to be okay. I think that my job, you know, was to get my daughter to a point where, you know, she's an adult now. She is. And, you know, and she can make her own decisions and things. I think, people think, because I see her one time a year. There's the positive is like, oh, my God, we love this. We love this. You know, but then there's the other side is like, oh, my God, she's. You're making her look like her mom. Or like, because she wore this last year, she wore the same dress that her mom wore to the Barnstable party when she. In 2004, where she met me. So.

A (104:00)

Right.

B (104:00)

And then people went crazy about it. And I'm not going to say I didn't know that people wouldn't, but I had, you know, I took her shopping and she had all these options, and I said, what do you want to wear? Just let's get this over with. Because I got, you know, here's the

A (104:13)

feel, like a typical dad.

B (104:15)

And. And she picked that dress, you know, and so that is. That, to me, was such a full circle moment in life where I had taken and spent. I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, like, storing all this stuff that she has, like, all this stuff.

A (104:32)

And that was my next question. How did you get all of this stuff? Did they give it to you? Or.

B (104:38)

So after Anna died and we first went out to California when Dalen was in preschool, before I moved back to Kentucky, we actually were living in Anna's old house for a little bit. And once paternity was Established. Howard and I. I mean, he. He was basically, here's the keys to the house, here's this, whatever. And, you know, it was almost like somebody said it was. I felt like in my mind that I was kept away from Anna, but that. Whether that's my perception or not, you know, And I felt like I was fighting for my daughter. And I remember the feeling of people basically saying, here, now, clean this. Basically clean this. I literally was cleaning our house up. I was like taking stuff out so we could actually move in. I was putting all the stuff in storage bins and cataloging and, you know, I took one load to the dump and there was vibrators going off in the back.

A (105:41)

You gotta sold those. You know how much money you would have got for an Anna Nicole dildo, I'm telling you.

B (105:48)

But I mean, like, literally. Like, I literally was the cleanup man. And then I became the historian and the curator, and then I became this. And some people enjoy that. A lot of people, the fans, you know, I tried to do whatever I can. I think that they're still waiting for me to reopen her store and things. I wanted to. I wanted to wait until Danielyn got old enough because I don't wanna profit off. I wanted her to say, this is a brand that I want my mom's fans to have. And I feel like she's starting to pick out pictures and photographs and this would be cute, or that's chopped, or that's not good, or that's great, or you don't know what you're talking about. Dad, let's pick this. So we're starting to go through that and she's starting to go through and embrace her mom's legacy.

A (106:29)

Yeah, that was another question I wanted to ask is what is her perception of her mother and how does she feel. Feel about her mom?

B (106:37)

The thing about it is, is people all the time worry about or talk or discuss or concern about, like, what Danny Lynn thinks. And she. I'm sure there's a hole there. Like, we, you know, we. I let her talk about it on her own terms.

A (106:54)

Right.

B (106:54)

You know, and what she does do is she appreciates the current appreciation for her mom through, you know, tick tock. And, you know, she'll come to me and say, look, dad, they're saying she actually, of all things ironically, she calls her mother dearest, but which was not a great term from Anna to her mom because it was used in a way. But she says mother dearest is on, you know, tick tock again. And look what they're saying her face card never declines or, you know, like, you know, look at this. She slayed this or that her. You know, there was a, you know, she's been mentioned in pop culture in different ways. There's a Nicki Minaj rap song and there was like a, you know, I think somebody recreated the Anna Nicole and the oilman wedding thing for an album and different things. She sees that come on and we'll, we'll be flipping channels and you know, movies or shows. She has not really seen the reality show too much. But there are times when, you know, I've went through the archives and looking through videos and like her mom will come on and there was one actual set of videos that, that she was in the, of all places, the Bahamas. And it was like something that she did that was probably not the best project for her career, but it was back in the days where they were, let's call it Cinemax, was called Skin.

A (108:21)

Yeah.

B (108:22)

Oh, yeah. So like, you know, and there's like, the premise is five lovely ladies in Anna Nicole on the beaches of the Bahamas, you know, and yeah, your shirt tops are going to fly off or whatever. So I actually, I bought the rights to a lot of the video that hasn't been seen. That's behind the scenes stuff. And there were stuff that I wanted her to have and she, she's kind of the point where she doesn't watch the stuff and she doesn't, not for any reason. If it's organic, you know, she will. But this night she came down from her bedroom and I'm like, I just got the package in the mail and I was looking through all of the tapes. She's like, oh my God, there's porn on the tv. There's porn. I was like, no, that's not porn, that's your mom. And she just has her top off. So it's like, you know, we have those kind of funny moments. Or she'll like, she'll throw a zinger. She's really, really funny and she'll throw a zinger at me. And I'm like, I tell her stories about when she was little and I'm like, well, you know, when you were born, you know, this isn't. This happened. And, and she goes, what are you talking about? You weren't even there. You know, so she lets me have it and puts me in my place. And so, and that was the thing I was going to tell you earlier, a crazy thing. And I might have segued off, but, you know, when Dannielyn was born. I didn't get the delivery room. I didn't get that moment that the dads get. I had to watch Danny Lynn being born on Entertainment Tonight along with the rest of the world, you know, and I don't have all the pictures that I've taken, like, you know, Tina Turner and all these big people. The one picture that eludes me is a family photo of me and Anna and my daughter together. And that's painful that I don't have that moment from a visual standpoint in my mind. I can see it in my mind.

A (110:07)

Yeah.

B (110:08)

And I can picture it clearly and. But I just don't, I don't have it. And I might never, you know, never have it. But so I've spent my time kind of going overboard making up for the fact that Dan, Danny Lynn doesn't have a mom. And so I do, I try to do as much as I can every day and put all my energy into everything and hope that I just, that one day that she can say, you know, that she appreciates what I've done. And, and, but we've had to have some more recent conversations where things have twisted to or adjusted to age appropriate conversations that some of the things that were happening behind the scenes when she was born and she starts. Danny Lynn's starting to be very opinionated about what she thinks about different people doing different things and things. And so to your point earlier, when people ask what does she think about, you know, her mom and stuff, obviously there's that boy that's, you know, that's there and that you can only know if you're in that particular situation. She appreciates her mom. She, she loves the fact that people love her mom. But I'll say when I go through things for her, like things that are archives or whatever, like clothes and different things, she is so such a sweet kid now, now an adult. But she is more worried about what, how it impacts me.

A (111:35)

Yeah, like, you know, she inherited your sweetness and your empathy and she thinks

B (111:42)

that, like, you know, you know, that it, it's, she's like, you know, I didn't know my, I didn't know my mom. You know, I, I, that makes her sad. I'm sure, you know, we talked about it, but, but she, her heart hurts more for me then, then you would think from her being the victim of something that was more, you know, her mother and because she knew that I knew her and that I really, in real time, went through that, lived it and suffered that loss and that doesn't take anything away. From. I'm not trying to, like, trump her

A (112:14)

grief or anything, but you're the father that raised her. You're the only parent she knows.

B (112:18)

Yeah.

A (112:18)

You know, Anna is a figment. You know, it's a part of her reality. It's her mother, her DNA. But she's never.

B (112:26)

But she's truly, you know, I will say this about her. She's truly her own person. Like, you know, she might have worn her mom's dress and somebody might have styled her hair like her mom or whatever for one day, but she's like, kind of goth girl. She's.

A (112:41)

Yeah, I saw that when she came up here.

B (112:42)

Her hair's super short. Anna's hair has never been like that. But the press will actually do. What they'll do is they'll. If her hair looks different and they need a headline, they will try to find some picture. Or if it's not that, then they'll move down to the dress. We'll find Anna in a purple dress, spitting image. And she gets kind of tired of that, to be honest.

A (113:00)

Yeah.

B (113:01)

And, and people might say, well, you know, how can you get tired of it if you wore your mom's dress? That's her right. That's her privilege, her freaking mom. But she's still uniquely her own person, and she has her own interest, and she's not really. She is such a kind, sweet, you know, kid. And I think that I feel like that of all the things I've done in life, I feel like I got that right. I didn't know that it's going to be the way it was, but I feel like that it's one of the things, it's the happiest thing of the whole story to see that she is, in my mind, that she's flourishing and, you know, on her way to do great things. What are those things are, you know, I don't know, but I know she'll do big things.

A (113:44)

You got to be her angel, too.

B (113:47)

Well, that's a big job. Right? Right now I'm a chauffeur. I'm this or whatever she wants me to do, you know, But I, I, I, I, I'm here for her. I, I want, you know, the best things for her. I, I, I just, you know, I'm clear that to her it's important that she knows that of all the things that she's heard out there, that I fought for her. And I, I, I didn't fight her mom to take her from her. I fought for her. After everything was falling apart, you Fought

A (114:20)

to be in her life.

B (114:21)

Yeah.

A (114:22)

Yeah.

B (114:23)

And. And I. And I hope that she appreciates it. I told Anna when she was alive, I said, you know, I don't know that she. She didn't make it around to see this day. I said, you think now I'm fighting you and you think this is bad, but Anna, you know how this feels. You've been on this other side. You. You didn't really have a relationship with your dad. You will appreciate one day that I fought to be a part of my daughter's life and that I didn't just walk away. And I think most people run from obligations. People thought I was running towards one for a payday, you know. And my daughter still to this day, she never got any of the money. Her mom's. The money that her. That she was fighting for, the oil man's money. She never got one cent of it.

A (115:07)

Right.

B (115:07)

You know, I didn't drop her off at somebody's doorstep and say, oh, shit, you know, there's no money. So. But out of that fake headlines, the $88 million baby, that, you know, all this stuff that created security risk for us over the years and different things that made us maneuver different and led to a different lifestyle than my brother had with his kids. So we go places at different times, or you have to get security or you have to call the police. Cause you got some kind of crazy letter or request. So it's been a challenge to maneuver and to do things. But I think we've made the go of it, and I think we've done a good job. And I think I'm most proud of the fact that my daughter has been resilient and been brave and proud to face unwanted criticism unneeded and to also put on a smile and say, this is who my mom was, you know, and, you know, and remind me every day how chopped I look and how bad I, you know, and what a, you know, crazy dad I am. So I. You know, at the end of the day, I think if. If I did one thing right, I think that I'm proud of her.

A (116:09)

Well, I'm proud of you, too. And I'm proud of you for sitting down here for. How long has this podcast been? Four hours. Four hour podcast? No. Well, we'll make it into two parts. Don't even worry about it. I'm so proud of you for opening up. And I know that, you know, reliving this stuff is not easy, but, I mean, I could just sit here and listen to you talk all day.

B (116:30)

That's the thing, there's so much like, people don't understand. Like, I try to explain to them, and when they think they know their real story, it's like, you don't. We. We've sent here for four hours and you like a fraction of it.

A (116:41)

Yeah. Oh, no, I could only imagine.

B (116:42)

Yeah.

A (116:42)

I'm going to have to bring you back. You're going to. You're making a documentary, right? Hopefully.

B (116:46)

Well, there's. There's things in the works. There's a lot of different projects. There's some things planned for. I don't make it like a special, like a celebration, but, you know, Anna's. The 20th anniversary of Anna's passing is coming up, so that we've got some things working in that direction. My goal is to put out something that's truthful, that's a leg. A true legacy piece that I was promised, you know, and that this will actually the good, bad and everything, like, put it on the table and say, this is who Anna was and stuff. And so there's some things coming up that I can come back and talk to you about, you know, again, but come back anytime. Thanks for having me.

A (117:23)

No, thank you for being here. Why don't you shout out your social media so people can follow you?

B (117:27)

Okay, so my. My Instagram is at Larry and Danny Lynn. And there's a caveat there that people's like, why doesn't she have her own social media? You know, so, yeah, she has her own social media. I don't even know if I even know it or follow her. I let her have that to herself,

A (117:41)

you know, give her some anonymity and privacy.

B (117:44)

Well, and she didn't want people to judge what she put down and all that stuff.

A (117:47)

And our daughter has a. We call it a Fenster. So she has her own little fence that, you know, nobody else is allowed on.

B (117:53)

Yeah, I don't even know it. Like, so people say what happened was that name for Instagram was born out of. Someone parked my name and then they parked her name and they parked. They did a website and someone registered a clothing line for all this crap that happened. So I was like, let me just pick this. So people think that it's our joint thing and it's not. It's really. And I don't post much, but I. I post like, proud dad moments and I post that. You know, there's something to say. But yeah, that's the social media, which I'm really bad at. And she reminds me, she's like, dad, you're hashtagging too much. You're doing this. Nobody does that. No. So I try to stay off of it because I don't want to embarrass her, but I. Yeah, that's. That's how you find me.

A (118:29)

Well, come back anytime.

B (118:31)

Thank you so much.

A (118:32)

My couch is always open for you.

B (118:33)

Thank you.

A (118:33)

Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Don't Blonde. I will see you guys next week. Bye.

B (118:39)

It.