Tech N9ne: Pain and Punchlines

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dumb Blonde with Tech N9ne – "Pain and Punchlines"

Date: May 21, 2026
Host: Bunnie XO
Guest: Tech N9ne (with Travis O’Guin in second half)

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Main Theme Overview

In this deeply personal and entertaining episode, Bunnie XO sits down with legendary independent rapper Tech N9ne to candidly discuss his journey through childhood trauma, painful and formative experiences, rise from Kansas City, struggles and victories in the music industry, artistic evolution, and growth into healing and maturity. Later joined by his business partner Travis O’Guin, the conversation delves into the formation and impact of Strange Music—their pioneering independent label. Throughout, Tech N9ne shines with humor, sincerity, and wisdom, sharing stories of pain, excess, resilience, artistry, and transformation. The episode embodies the spirit of laughing through pain, realness, and the power of creative healing.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Childhood, Family, and Early Influences

• Kansas City Roots & Kind of Upbringing

  • Grew up in Kansas City, Missouri, “Born and raised” (12:07)
  • Strict Christian household with his mother and grandmother; holy music at home, hip hop next door
  • Early exposure to music by sneaking next door for rap ([12:15])

• Parental Trauma

  • Father absent, LAPD officer, saw him “every ten years” ([21:10])
  • Recalls seeing his father’s many women, partying, and the emotional effects
  • Didn’t resent his father, credits uncles and community for guidance

• Mother’s Impact

  • Deep influence—her epilepsy and later schizophrenia ([24:19])
  • Suffered an abusive relationship, trauma Tech directly recounts
  • Later married a Muslim, leading to a culture shock of “no more bacon, no Christmas” ([29:49])
  • Mother’s acceptance facilitated his love of horror and the darkness in his art

    “I became everything that Mari Suye’s Khalifa showed me...all the clown, the hospital scrubs, the darkness, lyrically Michael Myers... it created Tech Nine. Thank you, Mama.” ([46:50])

• Early Exposure and Sexualization

  • Family-related stories: Uncle sneaking him into X-rated movies at age 5 ([15:00])
  • Early sexual experiences and seeing adult content shaped his adolescent and adult behaviors; Tech is candid about his own “womanizing” and wild lifestyle in youth ([18:20])

• Unique Coming of Age Story

  • Reveals he had a sexual relationship at 13 with a teacher, which ended when discovered, reflecting dissonance and predatory behavior but not internalized trauma ([34:05]–[42:29])
  • Memorable moment:

    “I don’t blame my teacher for anything that’s happened to me in my life...I didn’t look at it as molesting because I was in love.” ([41:59])

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2. Artistry: Musical Roots, Persona & Influences

• Dance as First Love

  • Breakdancing in fourth grade to “Scorpio” by Grandmaster Flash ([13:53])
  • Fear of clowns and early attraction to performance ([45:45])

• Clown Persona, Horror & Face Paint

  • Early fear became inspiration; “embracing a fear”

    “I became everything that my mom showed me that scared me” ([46:05])

  • Use of hospital scrubs and horror imagery rooted in personal trauma and childhood experiences

• Origin of "Tech N9ne" Name and Symbolism

  • Name given by Black Walt, representing the rapid “technique” of his rhyme ([51:27])
  • Later, numerology: “Nine is the number of completion... I became the complete technique of rhyme” ([53:12])

• Artistic Philosophy & Evolution

  • Quincy Jones’ advice: “Rap what you know, and people will forever feel you.” ([41:17])
  • Writes music directly from true life and pain; authenticity is the brand
  • Cites the power of emotion and shared experience as the connective tissue to fans

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3. Career, Industry, and Building Strange Music

• Early Industry Experiences

  • First deal in 1993 with Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis ([73:32]), struggle to fit industry ‘molds’
  • Quincy Jones’ support vs. label pressure to be more commercial ([77:34])
  • Encounters with Suge Knight, working briefly with Death Row, and meeting Tupac ([78:23])

• Independent Mindset & Strange Music

  • Meeting Travis O’Guin at a fashion show “paradise originals”—started Strange Music together “50-50” ([88:59]–[94:30])
  • Philosophy: “I knew I wasn’t gonna fail because I just can’t accept failure—mental block for me.” - Travis ([100:44])
  • Over $2 million invested before seeing a return

• Struggles and Lessons in the Industry

  • Navigating “snakes” and “car salesmen” in the business
  • Learning through bad label deals and the shift to self-distribution ([110:39])
  • Achieving status as top independent label with major cultural impact, supporting artists like Jelly Roll, Kendrick Lamar, and others

• Maintaining the Independent Path

  • Debate about mainstream vs. indie: “We were independent way before it was cool or sexy...it all depends on the artist’s goals.” - Travis ([114:34])
  • The financial realities, pitfalls of major deals, streaming era, and responsibility to artists/art

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4. Personal Transformation

• Maturity and Growth

  • “It took til my mid-40s” to realize his values and want to “stop sharing that energy with everybody” ([20:29])
  • Marriage after 10 years dating ([8:09]); pride in new stage of life
  • Quote:

    “I metamorphed, and that morph was maturity.” ([19:53])

• Struggles with Addiction and Sobriety

  • Wild years of drugs and drinking through the 2000s – “I was partying, I was putting on top of home’s praise” ([137:18])
  • Turning point: Concern from partner/co-founder (“they said you’re gonna die like Jim Morrison”) and seeing himself through his child’s eyes ([139:39])
  • Clean from all drugs since 2007 ([140:28]), sober from alcohol for four years ([142:24])
  • Physical health journey and changed relationships with food in sobriety

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5. The Craft: Flow, Choppers, and Creative Process

• Chopper Style — Blessing & Curse

  • Developed speed and clarity through “years of practice” ([53:58])
  • Birthed from experimenting with Slick Rick’s flows and Jamaican “bebop” ([54:41])
  • Now “tired of racing” every feature—modern young MCs always want to “race Tech” ([57:39], [58:05])
  • Enjoys making melodic, emotional songs more than “racing” at this stage

• Songwriting and Message

  • Songs as therapy, emotional catharsis, and direct communication to fans in pain ([123:29])
  • Focus on real stories, transformation of darkness into art

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6. Business, Fans, and Touring

• Connecting with Overlooked Communities

  • Cultivated a diverse fanbase: “gangsters, college kids, juggalos, metalheads” ([101:15])
  • Juggalos (ICP fans) heavily supported Tech’s rise in 2003 ([101:25])
  • The importance of niche and loyalty in the face of lack of mainstream embrace

• Touring Legacy

  • Up to 250 shows a year, high-energy, high-discipline, learned to “condition” to survive it ([128:17])
  • Loss of voice, injuries, and growth into touring health

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7. Upcoming Projects & Reflections

• New Album: 5816 Forest

  • Releases June 13th, 2026. Framed as an “audio series” of 17 episodes, chronicling Tech’s life from age 12 to 17 ([156:40])
  • Tells the story of moving in with his stepfather, surviving pain and punishment, and the birth of the Technina persona
  • “It’s very informative...but you never heard them in rhyme form.” ([158:50])
  • Intentionally minimal features (“all me on the song”), with guest hooks only

• Regret and Dream

  • On what he’d regret after last performance: Not having done stand-up/added more jokes into his show ([155:00])
  • Quote:

    “I always said, maybe I should write some jokes... but I never done it. I can do what the fuck I want to, I can break down barriers. I’ve done it my whole career.” ([153:41], [156:03])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On Art and Struggle:

• "I wrote about myself and my stories. What people have in common...is emotion. So I tapped into emotion. That’s how I got fans. All my stories are true." – Tech N9ne ([41:28])

On Relationships and Maturity:

• "People don’t take time with each other...you don’t find out about each other in a short period of time, like you should." – Tech N9ne ([08:25])

On His Mother’s Influence:

• "My Christian mama took me to see Carrie, Halloween... If my music’s dark, she’s the reason why." – Tech N9ne ([44:04], [46:50])

On Indie Business:

• "We were independent way before it was cool... now it’s all blurry. Depends on what you want." – Travis O’Guin ([114:34])

On Debilitating Excess:

• "I shouldn’t even be alive right now– that’s why I’m so grateful... I’m an angel, because I ain’t supposed to be here." – Tech N9ne ([140:44])

On Healing:

• "Did you ever fear you’d end up like your mom?… No, ‘cause I’ve always been super cerebral, a thinker, logical." – Tech N9ne ([49:55])

On Artistic Impact:

• "Sometimes the heavier the content, the more help it provides to people going through the same thing... If you can help someone, that’s enough." – Travis ([123:16])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro and Bucket List Guests – [03:39]
• Childhood, Family Dynamics – [12:00]
• Uncle Ike/X-Rated Movie Story – [15:00]
• Early Sexualization and Teacher Affair – [34:05]–[42:29]
• Relationship with Mother and Origins of Darkness – [44:04]–[49:20]
• Artistic Style & Tech N9ne Name – [51:27]–[53:12]
• Rise of Strange Music, Early Struggles – [88:59]–[100:44]
• Sobriety & Health Turnaround – [132:23]–[142:49]
• Juggalo & Touring Stories – [101:12]–[103:25]
• Upcoming ‘5816 Forest’ Album – [156:40]–[161:18]
• Regret & Comedy Dream – [153:00]

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Style & Tone

Bunnie XO’s tone is playful, compassionate, and at ease, encouraging Tech N9ne’s candor. Tech N9ne is vivid, unapologetic, and often humorous, shifting from deep reflection to wild storytelling. The addition of Travis O’Guin brings straight-talking, business-savvy grit, contrasting the emotional insights with clearheaded, no-bullshit accounts of the grind.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in realness, resilience, and reinvention. Tech N9ne’s candor on trauma, addiction, and creative alchemy offers inspiration for artists, entrepreneurs, and survivors alike. His journey, full of pain, hustle, punchlines, and healing, reminds listeners of the power in transforming pain into art—and the hard work required to cultivate lasting, independent success.

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For full context: listen to [key parts as noted above], especially for Tech’s personal stories ([15:00]–[50:00]), the Strange Music origin with Travis ([88:59]–[114:34]), and his discussion about the new album ([156:40+]).

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Happy to be here, mama.

[A]

Dude, I'm so stoked you're here. I had a bucket list and it was Dolly Parton, Joyce Meyers, and Tech9.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

I've done Dolly. Haven't done. I haven't done Joyce yet. And then I've finally got you here. So I'm just like, here we are. I know you're a busy man.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Gotta, gotta keep it that way. You know what I mean? Time waits for no man ever.

[A]

Yeah, my dad always says, rolling Stones gather no moss.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So I've always lived my life by that, like. But I finally. And you know, now that I've gotten a little bit older, have learned how to kind of like slow it down a little bit.

[B]

But yeah, we were just talking about vacationing, taking some time for yourself.

[A]

Yeah, I'm going to go to Monaco and see the Harry Bush ladies that you were telling me about that they

[B]

might not be alive now. You know, they were pretty old.

[A]

Tech was telling me he just went to Monaco and I was like. Or he told me you went to like Ibiza or something. I was like, did they have any nude beaches? And he's like, no, but we did go to one in Monaco.

[B]

Yeah, we went to one in Monaco and oh, it's always really old people on. Yeah, that. That are free. Yeah, you know, it's not like on the movies, you see. It's all young people perky.

[A]

Listen, the geezers have no shame, all right? And I think Once you hit that age, you're allowed to just let it. You let your freak flag fly and

[B]

the dudes are never in. We always see the dudes from the back, you know?

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

It's like a place like, right on the nude beach where you can sit down and eat and drink. You know, people are like walking by. You're like, what.

[A]

Who the is eating on a nude beach?

[B]

Us. Yeah.

[A]

You know what? I can't. I can't even talk because I used to go to swingers clubs in Vegas and eat the buffet there.

[B]

Well, let me tell you something about strip clubs. You know, strip club food. Yeah. I used to eat strip club food. You know, they have chefs in there making those steaks.

[A]

Yeah. So I used to. I grew up in Vegas, so I used to work in the strip clubs in Vegas and some of them would have five star restaurants. We would have to wear, like, gowns to go sit with our guests in there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Food was fire, dude.

[B]

It's an establishment.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They gotta have the right food.

[A]

I just feel like a nude beach, you know, with just all the. The bush flying around would be a little weird.

[B]

That's exactly what you'll see. Bush. Bush.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You'd. No young folks.

[C]

No.

[B]

People in shape. I'm talking. This is. This is my experience, what I've seen over the years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I'm usually with people that say, hey, man, let's go to the new beach. I'm like, you don't want to see the new beach? Please, come on, let's go to the new beach. Okay, let's go.

[A]

You know, so he's like, you know, you don't got to twist my arm.

[B]

You don't want to do it. It's not what they think. The ones I've seen. Yeah, I've seen. I've seen one. What's over the. What's. What's. What's that place over there, Travis, with St. Thomas? And it starts with an M. And if.

[A]

St. Martin.

[B]

St. Martin. There you go. I seen one in St. Martin.

[A]

Oh, we're going. We were actually gonna go there for my birthday.

[B]

Huh.

[A]

See, we gotta go. The nude beach is calling me. So they have one in St. Martin?

[B]

Yeah, we. We call it. We. I'm black. They call it Saint Martin.

[A]

Okay. Oh, I don't know. Is it Martine or Martin?

[B]

I don't know, like Martin.

[A]

Okay, I see I might be pronouncing it wrong.

[B]

We over in St. Martin.

[A]

I'm not with the bougie, so I don't know. I've never been there, so it could be Saint Martin.

[B]

No, it's. All of people call it Saint Martin. We call it Saint Martin. Sorry.

[A]

So did you go to the nude beach there? I'm curious.

[B]

We were at the place, eating. That's off the beach.

[A]

Okay. You're always eating at these nude beaches. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[B]

That's funny. I'm Scorpio. But it has nothing to do with that. Usually people with me. I know it sounds like an excuse. You know, it's just me just zeroing in on the nude beaches. People with me that I take on tour with me, you know, they're like, hey, they got a nude beach. I'm not just touching down. Like, where are the new.

[A]

Listen, I am. I'm that person, so it's okay.

[B]

But if you want to see it, you know, saying you go see it. It's not what you think. Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Well, from what I've seen, maybe somewhere in Dubai is different. I don't know.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

You know, maybe in Africa is different. I don't know.

[A]

Have you been to Dubai yet?

[B]

Nope, not yet.

[A]

I haven't either. But I heard the women out there are just. Just to die for. Like, just beautiful, gorgeous.

[B]

Yeah, I found. I found mine in Puerto Rico.

[A]

There you go. I love how much you love your girl.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

Every chance you get, you get to

[B]

give her 10 years.

[A]

Ten years? Yeah.

[B]

We got married in our 10th year.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. I love that. So you guys just recently got married?

[B]

Yeah, July 20th.

[A]

Oh, congratulations.

[B]

We're newlyweds, man.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

But I think a lot of people, you know, they. The song said, why do fools fall in love? You know, people just. Only fools rush in and this, that, and other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think what I learned from being married before, when I was 22 and I had those two babies at 22 we were talking about earlier.

[A]

Yep. And we're gonna get into all that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've. You know, we got married, of course, because we loved each other, but, you know, it was for our baby. You know, she's like, I want to have a baby. You know, I don't want to have a baby out of the wetlock type of thing, you know what I'm saying? Got married. But what I learned from then to now is I think that people don't take time with each other, you know, to date each other, and then, you know, it takes time to move in. Some people just jump right in, and you don't find out about Each other, you know what I'm saying? In a short period of time, like you should.

[A]

No, you did it right. You did it right.

[B]

Different chemical levels and stuff, you know, saying that happen not just with women either. I'm just talking about. No, well, you know what I mean, you don't know if are crazy. You don't know nothing. You don't know what happens when she's PMSing. You don't know none of this shit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm saying if you don't put time and learn how to deal with it and not fight negative with negative. You know what I mean? I didn't know that when I was younger.

[A]

Yeah. You have to learn your person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jay and I actually got married 30 days after meeting each other. And the first three years of our relationship. I don't know how we made it. Like, I talk about it on the podcast all the time. Like, it was so toxic because it was two people who to fudgeing strangers who from two different backgrounds. I'm a Vegas girl, he's a Nashville boy trying to figure out life together. And, you know, if I could go back and do it again, I would wait to get married and just kind of, you know, learn each other because people don't do that anymore. Like, it literally people. Everything is like. We're in the microwave era.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's like everybody wants everything now, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you.

[B]

And I heard somebody snoring, and I saw the dog.

[A]

The dog? Yeah. He's right here in my mind.

[B]

I was looking around like, who the hell is sleep right now?

[A]

He's the co host.

[B]

I didn't want to lose contact with you, but, you know, I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, who the hell is snoring?

[A]

He's literally the co host.

[B]

I know that ain't Travis.

[A]

No, it might be. He. He's. He's literally.

[B]

He's over there alone to throw your voice for your friends for that parties.

[A]

Yeah. He's literally grown up in this chair. So he'll sit here the whole podcast, but you'll hear him snoring every once in a while. You'll see me shake him. So good.

[B]

Snore doesn't come through. He can snore. It's his house. So the snore doesn't come through with your voice. And, you know. Yeah, he's comfortable.

[A]

That's my baby. So tech. I have done for the past two days nothing but research. You and you. He's like, okay. He got nervous. No, it's you know what did you find?

[B]

The drugs and the liquor and.

[A]

I found all of it, but.

[B]

And the women all over the world, did you find all. I'm telling you, I had to grow out of.

[A]

I'm telling you, though, I think you have such a testimony, and it really makes me understand you more. It makes me understand the music more. And I just want to take all of my listeners on that journey with you because it's really a beautiful ride that you've been on.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like you have worked your ass off to be where you're at.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I mean, I think it's just so cool the. That you've gone through and that you've

[B]

risen from when you know you have something special inside. It don't matter how many obstacles are in your way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you push them out of the way.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And people that try to create the obstacles because they don't understand, you'll look back and they'll all be shaking your hand. No, I didn't mean to make that rhyme, but.

[A]

No, it's just you're. You're a poet and didn't know it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

But no, it's so real. So let's bring it back to your growing up in Kansas City. You grew up on the Missouri side, correct?

[B]

Yes, I did. Born and raised in Kansas City, Missouri.

[A]

Take me on that journey with you and your family and like, kind of like your. Your upbringing and your background.

[B]

Yeah, my family, Christians, hardcore Christians. You know, we live with my grandmother, my mother, her brothers and sisters lived in a house in. In the projects, 904 Michigan and Wayne Miner projects. You know what I mean? And I couldn't really listen to rap music in that house. It was all gospel, but I found rap next door at the Reese's house next door. My uncle Ike and all them. I was. I was crazy about hip hop early on.

[A]

So at a young age, you just knew that that was like instilled in your soul.

[B]

I was. I was born in Wayne Minor. From birth till 10 years old. We moved away. So from birth to 10, I was there in Wayne Minor and I found so much music outside of my house. But what really stuck with me was the hip hop that was coming from next door.

[A]

Do you think that was because you weren't allowed to listen to secular music growing up?

[B]

I never thought about it like that. I just thought it was something that really made my hips hop.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Hip hop is about dancing. When you think about a hip hopping, you're dancing And I was a dancer before I was writing rhymes, so I always wanted to do Michael Jackson. And this is way after Wayne Miner, though. But, yeah, I wanted to, you know, do whatever dances I saw outside, you know, from the older people around me.

[A]

When did you get into dance? Was that at a young age or Was that after 10?

[B]

I remember fourth grade, my mom buying me break dance clothing. You know, loose break dance clothing with white gloves and everything and shoes. And me being in the talent show, pop locking to a song called Scorpio by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious 5. Scorpio. Because I was a Scorpio. I guess I was aware. I really like the song Scorpio. Mama want to dance to Scorpio. I can't even picture that right now being in fourth grade saying, I want to dance to Sugar Hill Gang. Scorpio.

[A]

I love it, though. I was doing A virgin at five, so it's okay.

[B]

Oh, like a virgin. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I got in trouble. Listen, Madonna was huge in the 80s, okay?

[B]

Yeah, I was in way minor. I was trying to kiss at 5,

[A]

so I read about that. And you. If you could take me on this journey. So you grew up in this really religious household. Your grandma was very religious. And, you know, you had that spiritual influence on you or. Religious influence.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But you had cousins that took you to a drive in theater.

[B]

No, that was my Uncle Ike.

[A]

Okay, Uncle Ike.

[B]

Uncle Ike.

[A]

Uncle Ike.

[B]

Oh, you talking about it.

[A]

Let's talk about Uncle Ike.

[B]

Uncle Ike. My savior, I swear. You know what I mean? He's still here today.

[A]

Oh, awesome. I love that.

[B]

He took me to the drive in show with him and his friends on a. On a weekend. And I was so young. I was five. I was so young that they put me on the ground under their feet with like a rug or a towel over me or something on the floorboard. And they had their feet on my back to get me in. They got me in. I remember they let me up. They say, Dante's. That's my middle name. Dante. You know what I'm saying? They call me Donnie for short. Like Donnie. People gonna laugh that don't know my name is Donnie, you know? Yeah, but they say, donnie, don't piss yourself now. When you see what comes on the screen, I'm like, what are you talking about? And it was. It was a triple X movie. And I remember it being Tarzan and Jane, and Jane just kept getting by these gorillas.

[A]

But you're five.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

I mean, Uncle Ike, what the hell's going on?

[B]

He was Young, too.

[A]

Oh, okay. I get it. So he didn't.

[B]

Uncle is, like, 62 now.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

So, yeah, he was. He was young too, you know? So, you know, I remember.

[A]

See that at five.

[B]

Traumatizing, right? Because I remember it starting off and everything. I didn't know what was going on. I'm talking about they're showing it going in and out and everything.

[A]

I remember it like at the drive in movies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's Triple X. Cinderella at mine.

[B]

At Triple X. You know what I'm saying? It's like after. After. After a certain time at night, they would show. Maybe it was Fairyland Drive in. I don't know. I forgot which one we went to because I was so young.

[A]

Yeah. What a different time of life, right?

[B]

They showed Triple X films after a certain time, Right? You don't know. Yes.

[A]

Even Travis.

[B]

Oh, damn. Well, we gonna look into that.

[C]

Yeah, I was there.

[A]

No, I believe you.

[B]

I'm talking about, like, at the drive in the big screen. They snuck me in. You know what I mean?

[A]

I know, and I 100% believe you. I just feel bad because at 5, that's got to be a lot.

[B]

They were. They were creating a sexual monster, right? Yeah, exactly. I didn't know it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Paired with the Humphrey Brogard pictures on tv, you know what I'm saying? Here's looking at you, kid, and kissing and all that kind of thing. You know, I was trying that at five.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Well, you're acting out what you were learning, you know? You didn't know. Nobody told you, like, hey, this is wrong. Or, hey, you're not supposed to feel these things or the influence from what

[B]

I see, you know?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

And that I didn't piss on myself like they said. But I remember. I remember Tarzan being upset that Jane kept on wanting to go out into the jungle and get by the gorillas.

[A]

What a memory. What a memory. Do you feel like you took that with you through life, though? Like, how would I remember this? Like, to apply it, to tell it.

[B]

No, I would never want to be in the jungle. I don't know.

[A]

He's like, no, no, no. But I mean, like, the possessiveness is what I mean. Like, you know how, like, you said Tarzan was possessed?

[B]

Never. Never have. They said Scorpios are jealous. That's never been me.

[A]

Really.

[B]

I've never been jealous. You know, in my time before I hung my player jerseys up like Tapestry, you know, I used to share women with my fellow friends.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, they're like, she was with me first. But if. You know, because sometimes people on tour, they love the circus.

[A]

Oh, I know. Yes. I've been on tour with all the

[B]

boys and all the people in it. Even the bus driver.

[A]

Really? The bus driver was getting action.

[B]

No, I ain't telling them no bus driver.

[A]

I'm saying, I was like, damn, we gotta hook up.

[B]

Even the bus driver.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

From what I witnessed, you know, Gotcha. Nobody is left, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unsatisfied. Unless they don't want to, you know.

[A]

Right, of course. Of course. All consensual.

[B]

That's the only thing about podcasts, you know, it turns into interrogation sometimes. No, no, no.

[A]

Never. Never.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

Not.

[B]

Not from you. I'm. I'm long winded. Oh, no. So I get to talk.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

But I'm saying. I was saying, to finish what I was saying, I would share back then, you know, I mean, I was never a jealous Scorpio, you know, when I'm dating a woman or whatever. But it taught me later when I found my maturity, mid-40s. It took a while.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I always say I met a morph. I met a morph. And that morph that I made in my life was maturity. And that's when I started feeling like I didn't want to share that energy with everybody anymore. It was a tour that I went on with JL and Joey and all these artists that we had on the label that they saw me breaking up with all my women all over the world, you know what I mean? Like, I found somebody. I want to try something different, you know, I never seen these women again. They were coming for just one thing, and it wasn't for a Tech9 show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it happened later on in my life. Like I said 45, you know, respecting myself and feeling like I didn't want to share that with everybody anymore. Like, this dick ain't. This dick ain't. This dick ain't for free. You know, like Kendrick said, you know, and not that you can pay for it and get it.

[A]

I'm just saying, I mean, if they could, it's all right.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

He said, no, no, no. So. So let's circle back to your childhood. Your dad was absent in your life, but he was lapd.

[B]

Yeah. Carlton Cook, rest his soul. Lapd.

[A]

What was your relationship like with him?

[B]

I seen him every 10 years throughout my life, you know, because, you know, my mom was 16 when she had Me and I guess my dad had several women in town, you know, and she was one of them. And I remember seeing him when I was like 6. I wrote on his. I wrote on his. I remember riding on his motorcycle with him in the projects. Then he moved to la. I see him for some years. I seen him again when he, when I was 14. He would have parties at his mom's house in the hood. When he came home, they would celebrate Cook coming back home. And I would see him having different ethnicities of women on the couch waiting to meet him upstairs. While he's with somebody upstairs, one would come down and the other one would go up. I watched it all night, you know, this is when I was 14. Atomic Dog was out at the top. I remember, you know, sneaking in the kitchen and drinking some of the liquor and stuff, like the bad kids, dude, you know, And I saw women crying, leaving crying, you know what I mean? But after that, I didn't see him for another long time. I think I became tech 9 within those. That 10 year period. I remember him saying something to me, like on the phone. He's like, hey, man, another 10 years is coming up. We got to see each other.

[A]

You know, that had to be hurtful as a child though, to like, you know, I. I don't know how you handled trauma or pain as a child, but, you know, most people would be like, you know, kind of resentful that their dad wasn't a part of their life.

[B]

It wasn't my life. No, it wasn't my life because I had my uncles, I had my aunties, I had my mom. Yeah, I never did, I never did feel away about my dad because I felt like later on I understood where my mom stood with him. Doesn't make it okay.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know, he never taught me how to drive or, you know, how to do things, the men. But my uncles did, you know what I'm saying? They tried to teach me a lot of things that they could, you know, but I never felt a way about my dad at all. I don't know why. Maybe because you always happy to see him. Yeah, Carlton Cook, he's always. He was, he was, he was a. He was a gangster to me. He was always tough, you know. And I had brothers that were older than me. Poochie and Cortez a little bit younger than me, and sister Marvella and El Reese and all these kids out in Cali that I didn't meet until 93, you know, when I, When I got my first deal with. But Jimmy Jam And Terry Lewis. All this stuff is intertwined in my story.

[A]

Yes, absolutely. And we're gonna get there. We're still focusing on baby tech right now.

[B]

Yeah, Baby tech. Well, I saw a lot of things. You know what I mean? But I only saw my father in certain periods of my life, you know?

[A]

So let's zero in on your mom a little bit here, because I know your mom's a huge influence in your music and in your life. And, you know, growing up in a household with her wasn't easy because she did have epilepsy. Epilepsy. And also. Was she diagnosed schizophrenic?

[B]

That was later on, before she died, yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Later on in her life. But early on, she had her first seizure when she was 18, waiting for my father to come pick her up for prom. He stood her up. Oh, and she had her first seizure. That's what my aunties told me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think I do need water.

[A]

Go ahead, take a sip. So growing up with a mom who, you know, was going through, you know, having epilepsy and then, you know, your father not being there all the time, your mom did get into another relationship that was somewhat abusive, and you guys had to leave. Can you take me on that journey where you guys were moving around trying to get away from her ex at the time?

[B]

That's Charles Wade. No, that was during my third grade period.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Third and fourth grade, I think.

[A]

I love how you. I wasn't laughing. I just love how you just can remember everybody, like, first and last name.

[B]

Like, it's like, oh, I lived it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I had to hear them fighting in the next room. And, you know, my dad moved away, and we moved away from Wayne Minor when I was 10, in the 50s, 59th and School Parkway. And that's when she met Abul Hassan Rasool Khalifa. It was a couple of boyfriends in between there. Guy named Nugee. I remember he had a. He was really. He always had on really good cologne. He had a George Washington Afro, you know, big back here. Y' all remember New G? They probably like, how does he remember these things? Yeah, because I would be in the car with them when we're going places, you know, Nuji. She dated Nuji for a while, and then I guess she met Hassan around that time. She wasn't dating Nuji anymore, and she married him when I was 12. She married Abul Hassan Rasul Khalifa. So my Christian mother, my devout Christian mother, had so much love for a man that she married a Muslim.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And, you know Muslims and Christians been having quarrels since day one, you know, when in actuality, both worship the same God.

[A]

One God, you know, Allah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's just. Allah is just a Arabic word for God, just a different language.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, but the Christians at the time thought Allah was a man, you know. You know, we won't get into that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just talking about God being a man and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Universe. I don't want to piss anybody off.

[A]

No, you're fine. I mean, we talk about everything on this podcast, but so that he wasn't the abusive relationship that.

[B]

No, he was not. Charles Wade was so. Charles Wade, when I was in third grade. Yeah, man, he was.

[A]

So you had to witness that, you know, amongst having your dad, you know, in and out of your life.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, dealing with the sexual stuff and then how.

[B]

Wade was a gangster. He had gangster white walls on his Cadillac. He had gold tooth. I was real close with his son Chucky. I talked to him every once in a while still. He. I think he lives in Texas.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

He was a barber. He was. He was in jail. He was a barber as well. I mean, he was a barber. His father, Charles Wade, he's still alive. He found me because I found Chucky on tour. You know, people's like, your brother. I was in jail with your brother Chucky. I'm like, ah, Charles Wade Jr. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Me and Chucky were always cool, though, because we were kids, you know. But his dad was turned up, you know, and I'm veering off because. Because I was talking to Chucky. Later on in my life, his dad got my number and called me and asked me for a pickup truck. I hung up.

[A]

It's just crazy to me that you can traumatize a child like that and hurt a woman like that and then circle back years later and be like, hey, can you get me something?

[B]

Yeah. He got his karma. After beating my mama at her job, he went up TO A gas KP&L gas service where she worked downtown Kansas City and got her outside and beat her up to where she. But he busted her head and all kind of things and put her in the hospital, you know.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Shortly after that, he robbed a bank and got 25 years.

[A]

So good he did get his car

[B]

and he got caught because they said he on the. On the scene of the crime. He drank a Sun Kiss and dropped it, you know, and left his DNA.

[A]

What an idiot. Talk about karma, though, coming around.

[B]

I'm sure he probably, like, that ain't true. Got Him.

[A]

So, you know, you and your mom finally get away from him and mom marries a Muslim.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Take me on this journey. Because how was that adjusting to having a new dad 24 7.

[B]

And it wasn't about having a new dad all of a sudden because, you know, I never really had one, you know.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

That was, that was constant. It was about coming from a Christian background and home to a Muslim home with no more bacon, no more sausage, no more Christmas, no more nothing.

[A]

That's right. Oh, so they don't celebrate Christmas. I didn't know that either.

[B]

No, no, no, no, we wouldn't do it. None of that. I would have to go to my Christian family to have Christmas and all that. That was hard for a 12 year old, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Hassan was nice to me, but I missed it as a youngster like we all do. Him trying to make me a stronger kid and not a mama's boy who still had his mama ironing his clothes at 12, you know what I mean? Start making me do everything, you know, if I was washing the dishes after a, you know, a get together or something, we would have at our house, if there was one, he would check the dishes and if there was one speck on a bowl, he'll dump all the dishes back in there and make me do all of them again, you know, until late, you know, I thought that was mean. He was trying to show me and toughen me up, you know, show me a different way of being independent as a human being, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And 13 came, 14 came. I'm up in school, I'm skipping school.

[A]

When new gangs come into the come into play with you.

[B]

Say that again.

[A]

When do like the gangs come into play?

[B]

Well, when, when she married Hassan, we moved on 58th and Forest. That turned into a blood neighborhood, right? You know, in the 80s, yes. And these were all of my friends, These are all the people I went to school with. These are people that I'm still connected to in my later years. You know, my friends, my brothers had nothing to do with gangs back then. It had everything to do with pop locking.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, battling on the street. And then in 85, it stopped and it turned the 37th street fruit town brimming from LA. Him and his brothers moved in our neighborhood.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So that's where that happened. But in those years, 13, 14, 15, 16, I'm in school, fucking up, Got in trouble dating white girls at school, going, going to, skipping parties at the white girl's House. I was dating at the time. You know, tech.

[A]

A womanizer. No. When did the womanizing start?

[B]

At 5. I was trying to kiss, you, remember?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, like, when did it really start? Like. Yeah, five. I think we all play house and do. Do stuff like that.

[B]

The first. Okay, I'll get. Let me see. I can speak freely on here.

[A]

Of course. Yes. And we can always cut anything that you don't.

[B]

You ain't got to cut nothing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, I'm spontaneous. I don't care what it is, whatever.

[A]

I love it. Yeah.

[B]

First time I came, I was 12, you know, on 59th and Swole Parkway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With a girl named Marlene. You know, she was my age, of course, you know, and it was the craziest feeling ever. And I knew it was supposed to happen because I saw it on the drive in movie. I saw, you know. You know, that it's supposed to happen. I remember she's saying, what is that? I was like, I don't know, but it's supposed to happen. You know? I remember saying that to her, you know?

[A]

Did anybody ever sit down and have, like, the birds and the bees talk with you? No. No.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? It was my uncle Ike was the closest thing, right? Because he would tell me, dante, this one I'm with now, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sticking it to her. I'm like, really? You know?

[A]

You're like, I don't know what that means yet.

[B]

At 12, I knew, what the hell, right?

[A]

So can you. Okay, let's pause right there. So, seventh grade. Something happens in seventh grade with the teacher. Can we go on that journey? Because that's about 12 years old, too, right? 13.

[B]

Well, I was going on 13, as I said. I was up 13, 14. Yeah, she. I won't say no names. Yeah, she was young. She was 21. And whenever it all started, when I showed her a picture of my father as a cop, you know what I'm saying? I had a picture of him in his LAPD outfit. And after that, after class, whenever everybody's leaving out, I'll be in there. And she used to say, aaron is so cute. Because my first name is Aaron, of course. Aaron, Dante. Aaron is so cute. And she was. She was. She was beautiful, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, oh, thank you. But she used to do it every day. Aaron is so cute. Like, okay. You know, then I got to skipping lunch to go visit her while she's by herself, you know, And I'm just gonna leave it at that, you know, to Be safe, right? But I was in love, right? Till she got married.

[A]

But you guys ended up. And we can always cut this too, if you want to. But you guys ended up getting caught, right?

[B]

We got caught by a student walking by. She said she told my sixth hour teacher, no, it wasn't my six hour teacher. It was sixth hour. Upstairs, Ms. Glenn's room was like courtroom class. So whenever something happened in school, they would have to come to court in her class in front of her big student body, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So they called me up to court class one day, not knowing what they want to talk to me about. I've never been to court class, you know? And Ms. Glenn, she's a black lady. She didn't want no fuck shit, you know what I'm saying? So she say, aaron, there's a student in here, the student was sitting right there that says, they walked by Ms. So and so's room and saw both of you kissing. And the whole crowd, the whole student body said, ooh. You know, I said, huh? Why would I be kissing a grown up, you know, off smart, you know, she's like, I saw you, Aaron. I saw you. I said, you didn't see me. I was in lunch. No, you were in there kissing. I said, it's her story against mine, you know what I mean? And. And they called us to the office and called the teacher to the office too.

[A]

Yeah. And I was sweating, I bet.

[B]

Then they saying, they said her name. This. This is alarming. And she's like, I would never. With a student, you know? I remember her, you know, like pleading her case and being real serious, you know, and nothing happened. We didn't get in trouble because I didn't tell.

[A]

But you guys were having. Were you guys having sex?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In the classroom?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

After school. That's another story, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

On school campuses, though.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

Call home, see if you can help me after school. Can I help my teacher after school? And she'll bring me home, go to her house.

[A]

It's so hard for me to wrap my brain around that because I know coming from a man's point of view, it's like, oh, you got to bag the teacher, the older chick.

[B]

Like I said, I was in love, right?

[A]

But if we switched places and it was a man doing that to a little girl, you know, like, it's hard for me to kind of wrap my head around that. And I. I don't not be mad at her for what happened to you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, I appreciated it, right? She got married in my eighth grade year and after that we didn't talk anymore, you know what I'm saying? After, you know what I'm saying? Because we did our thing before we got busted, you know what I mean?

[A]

Right?

[B]

So we didn't talk anymore after being in the principal's office, you know what I'm saying? Out of like.

[A]

Well, because you guys were being watched, I'm sure, like heavily.

[B]

So I remember the last day of school.

[A]

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[B]

in this world, stop with Mint.

[A]

You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.

[B]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird.

[A]

Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options Available, taxes and fees extra.

[B]

See full [e-mail] in 8th grade, walking by her room, her classroom, and I walk by, I could see her in my peripheral. She had been married already and everything changed her name. When I passed the room, I heard a voice say, hey, I'm all right. She's like, you're not gonna give me a hug? I'm not gonna see you again. You're going to the high school.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When? Gave her a hug. Never seen her again.

[A]

She never tried to reach out to you or anything after that?

[B]

No, I was, you know, I ran away like years after that, you know, I mean, from home and on a quest to become Technina, you know.

[A]

So let's. Let's dive into your love for horror.

[B]

Dark story. I didn't realize how dark it was, you know, so now it's dark to me. No, dark as.

[A]

But you know what I think it is? This is why I say you have such a beautiful testimony. Because like, you really are what you rap about. Rap about. And it's like a lot of people can't say that they are.

[B]

I've read my life, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I found that out early on. Quincy Jones, he told me, yeah, rap what you know, and people will forever feel you. And what I know better than anything is myself, you know?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I wrote about myself and my stories and what people have in common and they don't really know is emotion.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I tapped into emotion. That's why, that's how I got fans, you know, all my stories are true.

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

They are saying, except when you get to black in the sun and it turns into imagination, you know what I'm saying? Nipples and noodles and all that, kind of trapped in Psycho's body. It has a bit of imagination in there, you know what I mean? Yes, but it comes from a place.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't blame my teacher for anything that's happened to me in my life because. Right. I didn't look like. I didn't look at it as molesting because I was in love.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? But in true it is.

[A]

And her, she groomed you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I mean, I'm sorry, but a 21 year old looking at a 13, 14 year old like that is.

[B]

There's no. But I already came at 12 though, with Marlene.

[A]

Right. No, and I get that and I

[B]

love that already, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

But I love that you didn't internalize it as being molested. You know, but responsibly, I have to say, you know, like, if that was a man doing that to a little girl, we would all lose our minds.

[B]

You know, I heard stories later on that I wasn't the only one.

[A]

See what I'm saying? It's predatory. It's very.

[B]

Some of my homies say, you know, so and so hit, too. I'm like, huh?

[A]

What? She was just getting it in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The fact that they even still let her work at the school is just wild.

[B]

But like I said, she was 21.

[A]

Yeah, well, but what. What I'm saying is, like, after she. You guys got caught and them still letting her work there, that would never fly. This. This.

[B]

Because it was. It was written off. Like, that student was just talking some, right?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And they didn't see that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They see me give her a hug or something.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

You know what I mean? I don't recall what we said, but, yeah, whatever we said, it was like, okay, yeah, you know, well, let's switch

[A]

gears to a lighter subject and let's talk.

[B]

It's cool. We can go dark as much as you want.

[A]

We're gonna go. It's gonna. We're gonna go through phases. So let's talk about your love for horror. You got introduced used to it by your mom.

[B]

My Christian mama.

[A]

How that blew my mind whenever I read that.

[B]

I miss her so much, man. She was so cool. Marty Sue Yates before she became Marisu Yates Khalifa.

[C]

You know,

[B]

Let me see. I was born in 71. She took me to go see Carrie in 76.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, Halloween. Halloween premiered in Kansas City in 78. I was there. She took me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

My Christian mama took me to. You know, Kansas City has hunted houses around late September, October, Halloween. We have Main Street Morgue. We have Dr. Deadly's. We used to have Dr. Deadly's haunted hospital, the Edge of Hell. We still got the Edge of Hell, the Beast, all these gunted houses for, you know, attractions for people who like the darkness. You know, she took me to all that when I was young.

[A]

That's amazing to me because I grew up strict Pentecostal, and we were not allowed to listen to secular music. Anything that had to do with Halloween could never partake in it. Like, so that was really cool of her to let you be able to experience some sort of, like.

[B]

I remember her dating my uncle Ike's friend Daniel Whitney, and him being the one taking us to this haunted house, Main Street Morgue. And I remember us walking in. I was young, young man, you know what I'm saying? I keep on going back to five. A lot of shit happened when I was five, dude. You know what I'm saying? Really early on, I remember walking into Main Street Morgue, and when you come in, you turn right and you go up some stairs. They had a black light. I didn't know what a black light was. I was young and I looked at their faces and their eyes were glowing and their face looked crazy. And it kind of scared me. But I appreciated it because I was already going to the movies and stuff like that, you know what I mean? On the scary tip, my mom showed me all the things that scared me as a kid, like clowns at the Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus or the Ararat Shrine Circus. She took me to all that. I had a fear for clowns when I was younger.

[A]

Do you think that's why you wore face paint?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Later on in life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because it was like embracing a fear.

[B]

Yeah, that's exactly what it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I became everything that Mari Suye's Khalifa showed me. Her having epilepsy, you know, when she married Hassan, when she started having seizures, he put her in the psychiatric ward in. My Christian family hated him for it because we've dealt with it since she was 18 and she never had to go to a psychiatric ward. So he thought that was the best thing for her. Because after you have a grandma seizure, the after effects is you talking out of your mind. You know what I'm saying? So I used to have to come visit her there at Western Missouri when Menorah had one off. 63rd Research Psychiatric center, all of them in Kansas City. I went to go visit my mom.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And when they see me wearing hospital scrubs on stage, you know, I mean, all that, the clown, the hospital scrubs, the darkness, the lyrically Michael Myers and all that kind of shit is from Marty Suye's Khalifa. It created Tech nine. Thank you, Mama, you know what I'm saying? Because it saved my life. Everything I built from her and her pain, I internalized that and turned it into tech 9, you know what I mean? And when people come to my house now and they see my clown shrine with all the Michael Myers stuff and all the. You know, I have Reagan, like a life size Reagan from the Exorcist right there. It says, sorry, we did. On her hand, she's holding a sign that says, sorry, we're dead. I have this in my house. And people like, what's up with all this devil? I said, it ain't devil. My mom taught me early on when I was younger that these toys, these dark toys that you see, don't think of them any other kind of way than you think of your GI Joe toys or your Star wars toys or when you see Barbie and Ken. It's plastic and you can't give it any energy at all. And people believe that you can, that you'll have dark energy in your house. And when you look at my shrine, that's Mari Suye's Khalifa right there. And it reminds me, her birthday is October 26th. She's in that kind of fall kind of feel. So when the fall comes in Halloween, it's just a reminder of my mom. I became the clown painted my face early on. In 94, I painted my face for the first time. You know what I mean? I got my face painted, that is. And now when you see the clown with the red nose on a stage, the mask I use now, you know, is just what that clown, what that paint and that clown in my head has transformed into. And it gets worse and worse over the years, you know what I mean? Not within me, though. I just know what that darkness feels like of my mom being in a psychiatric ward and having the seizures and seeing her busting her head wide open from falling out on the. The floor and hitting her head on the bathroom. I mean, the bathtub, you know what I mean? I've seen the puddles of blood, her laying in them, getting beat up, all that stuff. I can. I. I know what that darkness is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I make the clown look like something hideous like that. You know what I mean?

[A]

You turned your tri trauma into triumph. Yes, I did is pretty much what you did. I did the same thing, but in a different way. Not with the clown and stuff like that, but it's like you. You alchemized your pain. And that's so beautiful that you, you know, were able to have that consciousness to do that instead of letting it

[B]

consume you or drive me crazy.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Did you ever fear that you would end up in a place like your mom if you let the. If you let it.

[B]

No.

[A]

Consume you?

[B]

I never felt like I would end up up in a psychiatric ward because I've always been super cerebral.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like a thinker, you know? And always I was so. I've always been so logical thoughts and stuff like that that I always feared having an aneurysm or something, you know?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because it never stops.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Sometimes I have to do Mantras to go to sleep, to make it stop, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I never thought I would end up in a psychiatric ward. I wanted to be a psycho, a psychiatrist to figure, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I wanted to understand a lot of things. You know, I studied serial killers early on in school. You know, I bought books, you know, Manson and Ted Bundy and, you know, saying the.44 caliber killer, you know, saying it's. It's all these things I studied because my mom said I was her angel sitting down to help people, you know. So I wanted to find out about my opposition, which would be evil because I am angel, you know what I'm saying? What you. What I got right there, you know? And I never thought I would lose my mind. And I never lost my mind. I don't think I lost my mind travels would know if I lost my.

[A]

Not intentionally. Maybe on a party night

[B]

going on in his brain, but I never lost my mind.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Gotcha. So can we talk about. I read somewhere that you have an obsession with the number nine and the birth of Tech nine. Did that come from that?

[B]

When I got my name in 88 from the gangster named Black Walt, I didn't have a name when I wrote my first three verse rhyme, you know what I'm saying? The New Breed, I was my first rhyme. I was just going with my middle name. D O N T E Z Z. I didn't have nothing, you know. So he was in a group called Black Mafia. He had Mac 10, not Mac 10. Ice Cube. This is.

[A]

Oh, I was like, I love. You.

[B]

This was a Mac 10 early on in Kansas City, you know, before Mac 10 came out, you know.

[A]

Right, the OG.

[B]

Yeah. You know, we started calling Shorty Mac. You know, I'm saying later on life, you know what I'm saying? But when I, when they heard me do New Breed, my three verse rhyme, my first three verse rhyme, they were like, man, we gotta find you a name, bro. Black Mafia, man. We. We already got one gun. Let me look in the Guns and Elmo books and try to find you another one, you know. And they looked at Uzi, you know, saying that it's like, nah. Now you got little Uzi vert, you know? Yeah, yeah, 12 gauge.

[A]

Because you spit like an Uzi though, huh? Because like so, you know, you're trying

[B]

to find something, you know, 12 gauge. I'm like, no. And then 12 gauge is loaded gun and I'm done by none. So shake that donkey, button them big old legs. I ain't too hard to be, you know? You know, people got that too, you know, saying, we went AK47, we went through the whole book and there was no nothing in there. We didn't find anything. But it was a picture of a tech 9 on the back. He's like, tech 9, he said, because the way you spit, you know, I'm like, okay. He said, that's going to be your name till we find something else. But the way we spelled it, T, E, C H was short for technique. And after I started studying numerology, I found out that nine was the number of completion. Nine months completes a pregnancy. They said cats have nine lives. After nine, there's nothing else like it. It's double and triple or whatever.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? I became the complete technique of rhyme tech 9. Technique number nine, you know what I'm saying? Everything to be able to. I'm rooted in rap, but be able to adjust to any musical situation. You know what I mean?

[A]

And what your fan base shows that. Yes, your fan base. You have metal fans, you have Juggalo fans, you have hip hop heads.

[B]

Like, I mean, I got all of it.

[A]

You've got it all? Yeah, it covers every.

[B]

That's how I. That's how I wanted it to be. I wanted to make tech9 the MC that can do anything.

[A]

Yeah. When you first started rapping, was it always so fast or did you have to develop that style because your brain has got to fire at different frequency?

[B]

That's from years of practice doing it. But when I first started my. One of my first rhymes. So that's why they said it was like. So that's why they said, I don't like what I say. So that's why they said I make. It was like going like, you know what I'm saying? And I attribute that to listening to Slick Rick. People like, Slick Rick didn't rap like that. But yeah, you know, he'd be like, around this part of town with diamonds in your girl in front. I'm trying to enter in this raptor. Having said that, it's like. It's like he. He would do a little Jamaican, like, toasting, like, don't worry about the thing. Because Ricky Rick is bringing home the goods. I'm like, that's dope.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I turned that. Don't worry about a thing. Don't worry about a thing. I was like, that's like Jamaican. Don't worry about a thing. Don't worry about a thing. Don't worry. It turned into chopping you know what I'm saying? And when I say that to people, they're like, wow. You know what I'm saying? It was just like, don't worry about a thing. Don't worry about a thing. It was like. That's how I started rhyming, you know?

[A]

It's almost like gibberish kind of. Well, like a form of it.

[B]

Well, no.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Not when you. Speaking of tech9. Because I pride myself on clarity while speeding.

[A]

Right, right, right. But it's like the double time is like how they do it in gibberish, correct, or.

[B]

No, I don't really know. I. I think they call it bebop.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, bebop. You know, that's what. That's why Quincy Jones signed me in 97. He said your style remind me of bebop. But I think that's what you mean by gibberish.

[A]

Well, there's a language, right? What is it? Is it Pig Latin or gibberish that. I'm thinking of where they double up the words. Do you guys know what I'm talking about? Pig Latin. Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah. Usually gibberish mean you can't hear it.

[A]

Oh, gotcha. Okay. I thought. Well, I. I thought it was called gibberish, but maybe it's like another word for pig Latin is gibberish, though. But so Pig Latin, where they, like, double up the words is what I'm saying. Either way, it's fascinating how you do it because it's like I.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

I don't know how somebody's brain can just fire on all that.

[B]

That signal from your brain to your tongue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Takes work. It's hard.

[A]

No, it's insane.

[B]

It's hard. When. When I'm writing, you know, I have to put it on a Dictaphone recorder to see if it works, to see if the words work off of each other. You know what I mean? When I'm writing that style, because that ain't the only style I do, but that's one of the ones that people know me from, from a song that I did in 98 called Questions on the Gang Related soundtrack.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And everybody. Why do I want to stick him with another hit up out of a. They want to know who that guy is. So since then, since 98, everybody that wants to. Mostly everybody that wants A song from Tech9 wants the chopping. I'm so tired of racing. No, I'm so. I can race the best of them. You know what I'm saying? I've done songs with Eminem and Kendrick and Everybody. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, but you're.

[A]

I. I feel like you're at a point where you don't even need to prove yourself to anybody anymore.

[B]

I don't. I don't.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

People, the younger generation want to race me because they grew up listening to me. They want a song with Tech. Something to prove. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, when. When I did a song with nf. Much love to nf, you know, his fans. When we did Trust. I'm dancing all over that too. You know what I'm saying? That track, you know. You know, Techni. Nah. Next king up. Everybody knowing I'm a death brain guy. That Lingua back then. Yeah. Leaving the rebel record, you know, I'm. I'm talking some shit. This is what I give it. Such an incredible, wicked, Russell. Vivid gust of what I'm really going, you know?

[A]

As you should.

[B]

And his fans, they're like, NF really stood up with tech9, you know what I'm saying? That's something. That's a thing. He can hold his own with Tech9, you know what I'm saying? So I think a lot of guys coming up really want to race me at a time where I. I've raced my whole career.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm tired of racing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can do it, you know, saying Tokens. No, I can't. I can't give it away, you know, Token. Well, I'll say it. Token sent me one and we're racing.

[A]

Yeah. You're gonna. So you're gonna let him race you even though you're tired of it, or is it just.

[B]

Yeah, I still race.

[A]

Yeah, but I mean, you're tired.

[B]

Of course I'm tired, but I still go when I. If it's. If it's. If it's worth me going.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Like, me and Jelly got songs we didn't have. I didn't have to race.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we could just do music very melodic and. Yeah. I can sing.

[A]

You know, Preacher was amazing.

[B]

Yeah, man. It's like Platinum and FU2. Yeah. Which.

[A]

You guys did that in the. In a hospital, right? The video was in a hospital, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Easier for you, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's. We can do. You know. Do you know somebody in pain? I know somebody, you know, saying, we got to sing and play. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

[A]

Do you prefer that over having to rap fast?

[B]

I love writing songs that people can say. Now, when it comes to the Technicians, they can say all my shit.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I don't see how, because it's hard for me. Like, a song like, so dope, want to sit beside a sick and seductive sin and see something so sinister Seek a sick or something like a centipede it's like, I try to make it to where nobody can do it. The motherfuckers can do it, dude.

[A]

Right?

[B]

But. But I like to do. I like to do music where I don't have to race everybody. You know, Ronnie Ratke, for instance, he does good old.

[A]

Good old Ronaldo.

[B]

Ronnie Radkey, I love him to death, man. Oh, I do a song. I do the song. The big song we got, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Called Ronald and.

[A]

Which you did phenomenal in that. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But when you send him something before that, where I'm just doing my singing, I'm singing, you know? And he was like, this is dope, man. It's so dope. You know, the first four bars I was singing so dope. But then some weeks went by. He's like, hey, man, can I talk to you for a minute? I'm like, yeah. He's like, you're singing a top of yours, and then when yours is over, I come in singing this. Like, to me, it's too much singing, you know? And I said, okay, so I'll go in the studio the next day and I'll just rap, you know? He said, yeah, let's try that. You know what I'm saying? But before, like, when? After I hung up, like 10 minutes later, he said. He texted me. He said, how about you just scrap that and just come in shredding? I'm like,

[A]

well, because Ronnie is still. And this is no disrespect to you, Ronnie, he's one of our friends also. He still has something to prove when it comes to rapping.

[B]

Yeah, but.

[A]

But he doesn't have the longevity.

[B]

But I'll tell you, yeah, that's how I found that, because I was looking for metal choppers and I watched the world burn. I was like, yeah, yeah, he got it already. He knows how to do it. You know what I'm saying? So when he said that, I called X Rated one of our artists. I said, man, he want me to change my first four bars. He said, it's too much singing. He's like, man, the man they scared of you, man. You know? Like, nah, I don't think it's that. I just think it's too much singing.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So he changed it, you know, he had me change it. And Just come in chopping. You know what I'm saying? What is up in your mind? Are you thinking the devil is making the karma that people are evil and never know? Demon designer, the opposite of a divine.

[C]

No.

[B]

Yes. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, he was right. But he wanted me to race because that's what he knows. From Tech9, from Worldwide Choppers.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We put out Royal Rod choppers some years late, some years ago, and that went platinum.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

With like 12 people on it. You know what I'm saying? It was Buster Rhymes on it. It was Twister. It was Yellow Wolf. It was.

[A]

Oh, I remember.

[B]

USOS jl. It was people from Istanbul on it. You know what I'm saying? It's like Jaza, you know, so many people on it.

[A]

If you could do another Worldwide Choppers with other people on it, what artists would you bring on it?

[B]

Okay, here's the story.

[A]

Mimi, can you hit that?

[B]

I never said this around Travis, but I gotta tell.

[A]

Travis is in the corner watching.

[B]

So I did another Worldwide Choppers, too.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My idea was to get Eminem on it. He did it. Wow. When he sent the verse in, you know, Chris Calico got it before Eminem.

[A]

We love Chris.

[B]

I didn't want to listen to Chris Calico verse because I didn't want to be influenced by it. So I never listened to it. I did my verse without listening to nobody.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I always started off and I send my stuff to people so it can be a greater song. A lot of artists won't do that because they don't want to be outdone. I feel like, like. Like Eminem say, my spot is forever reserved. I don't give a fuck. We gonna. If you do better than me, motherfucker, it makes for a better song. That's what I think, you know?

[A]

So

[B]

when we got the Eminem verse, I already had people putting fillers out to get Daddy Yankee on it. I was scared to ask Wayne about Nicki Minaj, but I wanted her on it.

[A]

That was.

[B]

And I had. I had no. I had people on it that never been heard before. Like, like Gabby Gab from Ant from Atlanta, Georgia, a female rapper with Nikki. You know, I'm so. I was gonna put females on it, you know what I'm saying? Who else did I. Oh, I was going for Kulega over in Germany. Travnim said, man, with Eminem, you can't put all those no name on there,

[A]

you know, Which I do understand where from a business point of view, I do understand.

[B]

I do too. Yeah. But if. If we did, though, I think it would turned out just like Worldwide Chopper's platinum, Speed with Eminem. Ain't even platinum, ain't even gold, I don't think.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Because people love it. But they said, this is not Worldwide Choppers. And I had to lie and say, come up with some shit like, we're the dopest rappers worldwide, motherfuckers.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? We're the dopest choppers worldwide. You know what I'm saying? It's like, okay, we get it now. They fuck with it. I don't know what the numbers. Numbers are on the Travis, but you know what I'm saying? It ain't Worldwide Choppers.

[A]

Yeah. So you guys never dropped the one with Eminem or.

[B]

Yes, we did.

[A]

Oh, you did drop it. I've never dropped some numbers on it. Wow.

[B]

Like, it's like, let me see, what did I see last on YouTube? The views was like 28 million or something. Like, I don't fucking know.

[A]

I mean, that's Nothing to stop.

[B]

48 million. It was one of them. Yeah, just on the. Just on the. Just on the audio, you know, so

[A]

it only ended up just being just you and Eminem on the track or a couple other people.

[B]

It was. Was me, Eminem and my brother Chris Calico.

[A]

Okay, gotcha.

[B]

So like I said, I never listen. Listen to Chris Calico's verse until after I finished my verse and I had my engineer, Ben, we call him Benjineer. Yeah, let me hear Calico's verse in the studio. I was like, holy, yes.

[A]

I love Chris and his wife.

[B]

I think my label wanted it to just be me and Eminem. And I get that, you know what I'm saying? But Chris was my brother, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, okay, if you do something dope, dope. And Eminem even said his verse was dope, you know what I'm saying? So when you listen to Speed Em now, and we dedicated it to Richie Havens, rest his soul, you know, his. His estate said yes to use freedom. We called it Speed Em, you know, and I don't even know why we

[A]

was talking about that, but no, I love that. So we were talking about how you actually became Tech9. Where you got your name. The Choppers.

[B]

We were talking about the Choppers and

[A]

then how your flow now.

[B]

Everybody wants me to chop and I'm tired. That's what we're talking about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tired of racing.

[A]

I love you tech. He said, I. I'm tired.

[B]

Tired of racing, but I will take.

[A]

Do you guys hear this man? Loud and clear. He stop racing.

[B]

They're not going to stop.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

J just sent me one a few months ago. J. I D. Just sent me one a few months ago that I'm. I still ain't done yet because I got so busy, but I'm still going to do it for him. JD Sent me one. He's racing me.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, well, it's not going to stop because you're the greatest. And it's like. And do you. And this is, you know, could be a long winded question, but it's not going to stop until you pretty much retire. And do you think you're ever going to retire from music?

[B]

Do I think I'm ever going to retire from music? I still. Was that a fart or still snoring?

[A]

It's him. It's snoring. Zach, I would not be over here lighting it up.

[B]

I'm just saying it's your house. I'm like, no. Damn. What'd you eat before you came here, buddy?

[A]

You know, listen, I have been with my husband 10 years and he's only heard me fluff one time. I would never be over here just ripping it up.

[B]

All right. I heard they farting in the workplace is considered sexual harassment.

[A]

Are you kidding me? Stop.

[B]

But it never made any sense to me because I like, how is that sexual? Like, is that like an invitation where you want to.

[A]

Somebody's like asking a question with a fly.

[B]

Why would that be sexual harassment? Like at work, at the. Getting coffee?

[A]

Because people. Because we are. We're literally in an era where everybody gets a trophy. So people will make up to be mad about. I swear.

[B]

Know if it's really. Indeed. You know, we'll have to give that a go and see if it is at the workplace. And I suppose before.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell that to you.

[A]

Chachi. Stop fluffing over here. He has the silent but deadly ones. This guy right here. Trust me, you won't hear it. You'll smell it.

[B]

Yeah, but. Yeah, they still want to race me. The younger generation are still contacting me. Want to race?

[A]

Yeah, for sure. But like I said, are they. They're going to want to race you until you retire. So do you think you would ever retire from music or.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sorry I'm so sporadic.

[A]

You're okay, baby. Don't worry.

[B]

I still get Excited when I hear dope beats and melodies. Yeah, I still get excited.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I love music. I used to be a dancer. Pop, locker, brick dancer, all that. When I was younger, you know what I'm saying? I still can.

[A]

You still do it?

[B]

Yeah, I can still do it.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

On one of those tours, on that E40 tour we went on, I was doing this break dancing song I did called Don't Nobody Want none, you know, and I was break dancing every night. And I hate myself for it because my knees were dead after that tour.

[A]

You didn't have every night?

[B]

I didn't have no knee pads or nothing. Just going rogue on the stage, you know, so. But to answer your question, I don't know, because I still get excited when I hear good songs like that one I just saw Zelly do with his other guys. Like Hallelujah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

That fucking swing.

[A]

They should do a remix and put tech on it.

[B]

That's. I heard that shit. And I heard him. I heard him do it live at the Super Bowl. That would be at the show with him and Shaboozi. And I heard him do it. I said, that's the one I heard lately.

[A]

I'm gonna put it in his ear.

[B]

Oh, job.

[A]

I'll put it in a dope. That would be fire to have all three of you guys on a track now.

[B]

You got to do my song first. That I sent him already.

[A]

Okay, Listen, I barely even get to see my damn husband, so I don't know what's going on, but I'll talk to him about.

[B]

You got to do sacrifice first, then we'll talk about Hallelujah.

[A]

Gotcha. I got your back, Tech. I promise.

[B]

Yeah, and I'm not. I'm not racing on sacrifice either.

[A]

Yeah, good. So instead of retiring, do you think that you would ever step into, like, maybe a mentor position of like. Like, kind of like what. What Jay Z, I always said.

[B]

Always said that maybe when we get to the point I want to sell strange music or something, I will do stuff to help my artist, you know what I'm saying? You know, and do verses here and there. I don't know. But, yeah, I can't. I don't. I don't see that. Because I'm getting better with my pen.

[A]

Right? You know, because you're getting wiser, too, and you just have so much life experience.

[B]

Just trying to keep from saying that will piss people off is the hardest these days.

[A]

Right?

[B]

I mean, everybody comes to religion and politics and sexuality and all that kind of stuff. Sexuality, that's not my business. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't judge people on their sexuality.

[A]

You know what I'm saying?

[B]

I never have and I never will. And I don't know why people are so, you know, fixated on people in their sexuality. But, you know, I get when people say you're doing it on. On a show where kids are watching and you kissing them, man, or whatever, and now people are upset. I get that. But at the same time, I ain't really worried about nobody's sexuality. But as far as religious beliefs and politics, and I try to be careful, right. Because all this is gang to me.

[A]

Well, speaking about politics, I mean, Donald Trump pretty much adopted your Red Red Kingdom anthem. Listen, I pay attention to it all, baby. How did that feel for you? And we can cut this part off, too.

[B]

You don't have to cut it off.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You can ask me anything.

[A]

Yeah, I just, you know, I just always want to be respectful, but, you

[B]

know, I always have my kids calling me, like, daddy, you gotta say something. You gotta. People gonna think that's you. I said people can think what the fuck they want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

When you write music and you put it out to the public, their perception of what it means is going to be different. However they perceive that song is how they're gonna use it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And when they put it out, you know, when you put it out, you know, that's what. That's what happens, you know? And my kids didn't like that. You know, they wanted me to tell people. I don't. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

You can't get into politics because you'll be damned if you do. Damned if you.

[B]

All I know. And you know know. All I know is that it's crazy how on that song, how the number spiked.

[A]

Oh. Because it's literally, it's. It became pop. Like, you're already such a huge presence, but it became like pop culture.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, once you hit that pop culture, what was it?

[B]

What was that? Was it an indictment trial or.

[A]

I forget, impeachment. Oh, was that what it was for? Okay. I thought it was for his campaign.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

During his impeachment trial.

[B]

Yeah, they did. They called it riot music. And I made it for the chiefs.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? I say number 58 is DT the Great, and we found it. Derek.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Thomas. Rest in peace. You know what I'm saying? But the hook, Red Kingdom. I had no idea the Republicans were Gonna hijack my song and turn it into their shit.

[A]

You know, Listen, the Republicans hijack everything. I had a. What was it that went viral? A sound that went viral that said, I woke up this morning and I feel like trash. But it's French for I feel like garbage. That's French for trash. All the Republicans grabbed that after somebody said something about somebody being trash in Puerto Rico or something. Oh, it went viral. So it's like that's what happened to your song. And that's why the streams went so crazy, is because that was on Tick Tock.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I'm telling you, it was everywhere. I was like, go tech. I was so excited for you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're. We. We. We're the kind of. I'm the kind of artist that I do the music and I go when I don't look back. And then next thing you know, I got all these platinum and gold plaques coming in. That was a flex.

[A]

I mean, as you should.

[B]

But I just do the work and then pops up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? And let's.

[A]

Let's dial back real quick and let's get into when you got your first record deal in 97. When you.

[B]

It's 93. Was it 93? Second.

[A]

Sorry, I'm not looking at my good baby.

[B]

No, 93. I got my first record deal with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis at Perspective. A M. Yes.

[A]

93 to 95.

[B]

Correct. 93 to 95. They let us off in 95. Started working with Don Juan around that time. I was working with Icy Rock that, you know, that got me the deal with Jimmy. Jimmy, Terry Lewis in 93. Icy Rock was a producer of mine. He did it's alive. He did T9X. He did a lot of songs for me in the past, you know, and after that relationship was kind of damaged. Don Juan came in and diamond, rest his soul, they wanted to see if I could do hood music. I said, I'm from the hood. Cause, you know, with Icy Rock, we're doing nuthouse shit, you know. So we're doing the. The Scrubs. And you know, my mom, you know, we doing Dark, you know. And he's like, you doing that crazy over there with Icy Rock? Can you do. No, do some hood. They gave me the beat to Mitch Bay. I said, I'll be back tomorrow. Have you ever met a. Who was pie sprung? It's a lot of slinky where I come from. There's another missile catcher just like him. His name is Mitchell Bade. Mitchell Bay. You Know what I'm saying? The motherfucker's like, what the. I'm on there. Like, what up, Mitch? Is it everyday thing for you to act just like a. How does it feel to have a. I forgot how that goes. But, yeah, I'm like busting on it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That went to the top in Kansas City. It was on the radio and everything.

[A]

Back then it was hard to get radio play, wasn't it? Because.

[B]

Yes, it was. Yeah, it was before then.

[A]

It was kind of like a cult.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was undeniable, though. They had to play Mitch Ben, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was. It was. It was a struggle to get songs on the radio in Casey. For us. For sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until Mitch. Mitch Bade, Cloudy Eyed Stroll and Mitch Bay. Mitch Bade was the B side of my single, Cloudy Eyed Stroll. It was like really calm song.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Mitch Bay was the B side.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Claudette Stro was on the radio.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? But Mitch Bay took over then right behind Mitch Bade. I got with my group, my. My Blood Homeboys. And we started a group, 57th Street, Rogue Dog, Villains. And we did a song called let's get up on Radio. Everything we touched.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

And this was after your record deal from 93 to 95, or was this during?

[B]

No, this is. This is after. Okay, this is after. This is after 95, when we got released.

[A]

Gotcha.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So with Don Juan, that's when we. In 97. That's when we got the deal with Quincy Jones. Question Warner.

[A]

Right. One thing I respected about reading your situation with the record label from 93 to 95 was that you said some. That they. They like, put somebody in a car with you, and the dude was telling you that you had to change.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

And you're like, no, I'm not changing who I am. And like, you really, like, stood your ground and was like, no, I know who I am, and I'm not changing for anybody.

[B]

I know. There's a name, too. His name was Life a Lot. He was from the east coast.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In 93. He. I guess. I know. Protect your neck. Just came out. Wu Tang, you know. And he's like, you got to do this, son. You gotta do this. You gotta do. You know, saying. M E T H O D Man, whatever the. You know, saying. I was like, no, that's them. I gotta do me. And that was the tension, you know what I'm saying? Same thing in 97. With Quincy Jones, he wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do, but his people who worked at his label wanted me to do, like, popcorn shit, you know what I'm saying? They wanted me to do this song for the Shaq movies called Steel. He was like, RoboCop or some shit on him. And I had a song like, he's strange and I like it. He's strange just the way he is. Tekanina, take a nina. What's up? Why are you so damn psycho? Couldn't tell you, baby. You know, it was like cookie cutter shit.

[A]

Right?

[B]

But I could do it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Produced by Quincy Jones, his son, Judy 3 the third, Quincy Jones III. But at the time, I had done that on Tech 9. I had Planet Rock, the Down south remix, you know, I said, I want to start with this one. He's like, nah, it's regional. Nope. You know? And I'm like, I told Quincy, and he started firing. So they hated us up there because he favored us, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I met Travis the next year. The next summer in 98.

[A]

98. So before you met Travis. And we're gonna get. We're gonna pull Travis in whenever we get to there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You did something with Death Row and Suge Knight was.

[B]

That was a 98.

[A]

That was a 98.

[B]

That was the year I met Travis.

[A]

Okay, Gotcha.

[B]

But it was 98, when I was out in LA, before I went home to KC, you know?

[A]

Gotcha. Gotcha. Tell me about meeting Tupac. And, like, I. I actually have hung out with Suge numerous times.

[B]

Yes, me, too.

[A]

And we can cut this out. I don't know.

[B]

No, we don't. Okay. It's my brother. No, no.

[A]

Well, I'm talking about. For me too, though. But because Shook gets such a bad rap, and he does.

[B]

He's a nice guy.

[A]

I thank you. I have never told the story on the podcast before, but I used to do cocktails at the Palms, and Suge would come in every night. He'd be so up, and he would be the nicest dude.

[B]

I kicked it with him on several birthdays and everything.

[A]

He was so nice. Like, he never was disrespectful to me. He was like, my homie dude. And he would tip me all the time.

[B]

Really good dude. It's just you encounter people in the industry. Not saying they deserve anything. I'm just saying you encounter in the industry.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And sometimes people handle differently.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know. His whole life, right? What he done to people. But I only got glimpses when I'm around him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we around all the homies with him and everything is all love, all respect. We partied together. He came to my shows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whenever I was in Vegas and San Diego, he would come to my shows. You know what I mean? Just showing love, man.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, absolutely. What about me? When you met Tupac? Because you said you've met him on probably like, what, four instances.

[B]

Well, I met him in 93.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No, 92, at Jack the Rapper. It's a musical conference, a music conference that they used to have in Atlanta at the Atlanta Hilton. You know what I'm saying? And I met him in the lobby. He was checking out this. He's checking out this stripper, this dancer. Had a big old ass. Used to be at the be conventions that I went, you know, years before, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'd see her all the time. She was Caucasian girl with a big old ass.

[A]

You know, we love those.

[B]

Pac was standing behind her, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

I was like. I could just visualize it, okay?

[B]

Pac was standing behind her. It's like, I'm black owned.

[A]

Owned.

[B]

I'm black owned, you know? So I guess this is after the riots, you know, saying like, I'm black owned.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I went up to him and I was like, hey, you Tupac, you can do whatever you want with that. He's like, I'm black owned. Like, what does that mean? You know? And I was like, oh, during the riots, whatever building had black owned, nobody would with. So he said he must got black owned written across him because the wasn't with him, you know. So I met him that year.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

92. Then in 93, I got my record deal with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Life a lot. And all them. I met them the first day there, you know what I'm saying? There's a guy named Jordy, you know, see, who drove us around and life. Allah was the guy who was trying to turn us into whatever they wanted us to be. They took us to this club after we checked into the leu, you know, in Hollywood, you know, and they took us to this club and Tupac was there. I went over there and hollered at him. Him hollered at Mo Prem. His brother was with him.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

Iqbar.com code BrainIQ I saw him that whole summer. We was fucking the same bitches and everything. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

She's on a rotation.

[B]

Yeah man, you know what I'm saying? It's like be at my house, she'd Be crying because Pac said something to her. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's like, I remember. Like, it was yesterday.

[A]

Yeah. You know, that was like, such a cool era, you know, because I was in Vegas at that time, too, and I was actually in Vegas when Pac was murdered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was. I. I remember it was like one of the saddest days. Like, it was just such a. It was like an end of an era.

[B]

The connection was QD3, the producer. He did music for Tupac, Gotcha and me and Ice Cube and Dubsy. You know, a lot of people, you know, saying yuck mouth, you know, saying the loonies.

[A]

You know, I got shot nine times. Yeah, I love yuck mouth.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was the connection, you know what I'm saying? Cause, you know, I would see Pac, but we never talked about doing music. But he talked. Qd3 would talk to him about tech9, you know what I'm saying? And he had told me that Pac wanted to work, you know what I'm saying? And when he got killed, QD3 already had a song in mind, you know, because we were already. He was already working on one. He said, I got one. I'm working on it. Then he died. Then, like, two weeks after he died, QD3 called me, said, hey, man, I got his verse on it. You still want to do the song? I said, like, yeah, I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was called Thugs get lonely too. It was a version that had Prince sampled if I was your girlfriend, you

[A]

know,

[B]

it had that sample. And Prince wouldn't have in those samples.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's when Prince was still alive, too. So for him to even. Okay, that is historical.

[B]

Maybe he would have did it for Park, I don't know. But it never came out. It leaked somehow. We didn't leak it, though. I was just so happy it leaked because. Yeah. I mean, people think I was lying, you know, Right. Dude, that's a piece with a. For years, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Seeing them in la, seeing them in Atlanta, you know, like.

[A]

So that same year that you're going through all that with Death Row, Travis enters the picture in 98.

[B]

98. I came back home from LA. I brought that song Planet Rock, that I wanted to put out instead of taking, you know, why are you so damn psycho? You know, I want to put the down south mix out. So Quincy let us go, went back to Kansas City, brought Planet Rock back with us. Me and Don Juan, we put that out, we start playing on the Radio. It blew the up. Okay? So, like, I thought it would.

[A]

Right?

[B]

He leaves out right when we're about to get to him, you know?

[A]

And if you need to use the restroom, too, we can break, too, if you want to use it.

[B]

I'm good, I'm good.

[C]

I'm good.

[B]

I'm good. I'm good. I'm good, I'm good.

[A]

I'm good.

[B]

I'm long winded. I can stretch it. No, you know, I can stretch it, but. We brought planet rock 2k back to Kansas City, and it blew the up. It was a fashion show that was being held downtown Kansas City. It was a clothing company called Paradise Originals. My boy Heath and all his buddies, Travis was funding it. I went down there to the fashion show and I did my song. You want me to jam? I'm finna brainwash Pain from the same days make you sick like bad mayonnaise tech 9 got the remedy rhyme affinity criminal leaf gonna be some shit. I crack you open like the youngest male Kennedy. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm really doing tech9 know. Yeah, but it's the beat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it was like that. It was like that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. They said I get hyphy when he does that. Every time he does that, I'm like, yeah. I get so excited.

[B]

Right, right, right, right, right, right. Told you. I'm animated.

[A]

No, I love it. Listen, I've been to your concerts before, and nobody puts on a show like you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's insane. Travis, you can go ahead and sit on the couch too, baby.

[B]

Me? But you know you're good, right? Before we were here, we had breakfast, and the guy taking our order like, you want coffee? I'm like, no, I can't have coffee. I can't ingest any caffeine. I'm naturally caffeine, right? If I have caffeine, I'll be up for three days, and I need to sleep with my job that never could I have any caffeine. Can't drink no goddamn mountain dew. No Dr. P, Mr. Pibb or Dr.

[A]

I'm sensitive to caffeine, too. There's no way.

[B]

Or was it Mr. Pibb?

[A]

Yeah, Mr. Pibb.

[B]

Dr. Pepper, Pib. That's disrespectful. Dud.

[A]

I. I was catching what you were putting down, though.

[B]

So I did that fashion show for Paradise Originals. Travis was funding them, you know, saying Heath and the boys. The next day, George Forte hit me and he said, our boss want to meet you.

[A]

The boss?

[B]

Yeah. I said, your boss? He's like, yeah, the guy, you know, makes paradise work. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, oh, okay, let's go. Took me to his house in Blue Springs, and we had our first meeting.

[A]

Travis. Mr. Travis Ogwin has joined us on the couch. I'm really excited to get you both together because I think it's legendary. Yeah. I think this is very rare that I've ever gotten to see you two in an interview together. At least recently.

[C]

I don't think it's ever happened, to be honest with you. Like, I mean, we always do individual interviews.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

I don't do very many, so this might be a first.

[A]

I. I feel honored, like, for real. So, Travis, I'm happy that you're here. And I. Like, we were just saying, I'm so honored that you guys are doing this together, because I have so many questions, especially with you guys being, like, the biggest independent label pretty much in the world.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

You guys really built something from the ground up. What was you. You were already involved in music before you found tech because you were funding the fashion show.

[C]

Well, so I was actually involved in a clothing company, Paradise Originals. How we met, I wasn't really into the music business at all. As a matter of fact, I had no experience, no background at all.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And so. But I. I. When I went to high school, I grew up in a. In a very diverse neighborhood. But more importantly, it was. My school was about 80% black, so I grew up around hip hop my entire life. I mean, from grade school, middle school, and then into high school, So I was always into hip hop. So whenever we wanted to do this fashion show, Tech had a buzz because of those songs that he talked about being on the radio. And I'm like, okay, yeah, let's do this. Let's. Let's. Let's find him. Let's get him in there and see if he'll do it. And he did, which was awesome. And. But afterwards, like, I knew of him, and I knew of several of his songs, and I always heard about how he was about to be the next biggest rapper and everything else. And then after we did the fashion show, I really wanted to talk to him to understand what that journey was, because it wasn't. A lot of the things that I heard were going to happen weren't happening. So I just wanted to understand why, like, okay, you know, what. What.

[B]

What.

[C]

What's your story? And. And he came, and he was really, really, really open with me, and he told me every detail. He told me about the managers that he had, which. There was a lot of them, by the way. I think he had like five managers or something. I'm like, damn. And so. And then, you know, all the people that were involved. And at first I was like, okay. You know, he told me about the. The deal that he had with Quest and how that was through Warner Brothers and he had a publishing deal through Windswept. And it seemed pretty complicated. And at first I thought I could go in and say, you know, maybe I can give some advice. I was really good at business business. I had a really successful furniture business at the time. Successful with the clothing, successful with real estate. I was doing my thing and. And I thought maybe I could offer some advice. And after I met with him, I realized advice isn't what he needed. He needed some money, and he needed somebody that would go in there and kind of clean up a few things because it got. It got a little. It got a little to be a little bit too much or it was gridlock right amongst the label. And then the local label, Midwest side Records, and then Quest, and then Warner Brothers. And at that time, I'm like, dude, that's crazy, man. Good luck, Cool story, Good luck, and wish you the best. And. And. But I didn't think that I could offer any words that was going to change anything, right? And. But we stayed in touch. And. And then there was a time when he reached out to me and I got an opportunity to go down to. It was Icy Rock's house, and he played me a song because we were together at a restaurant when they were writing a song. This. This restaurant. What was it called? Hops. Yeah. And. So. And. And I was intrigued by it. And then after it got done, I got an opportunity to go down there and listen to it. And that song was called this Ring.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And. And I. I was blown away by it. They were. He was nice enough to let me have a copy of it. And I must have played that. That song a thousand times in my. Dawn was like, over it. Like, she was like, what are you doing?

[A]

Shout out Don we love.

[C]

And not only that, but it's like. Like, wait a minute. He's trying to balance being tech N and being married. Are you trying to say something like. Like, why do you keep playing his name? So. And it. It was. I. I couldn't. I couldn't leave it alone. And then that's when we ended up meeting again. And I'm like, hey, man, tell me what you want to do. I. I heard what everybody. Everybody else has in mind for you, but all of that, like, what do you want to do? And that's when he told me that he had a publishing company called EGN Arts. And I'm like, okay. And then I, yeah, yeah. And then I was like, he goes, that's strange backwards. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I said, why is that? And he goes, well, because if I ever have an opportunity to do my own label, I want to call it Strange Music. And I'm like, oh. And then he told me about his love for Jim Morrison and the Doors and all of this stuff. And so I took a leap and said, okay, well, listen, man, I don't know the music business, but I'm a quick learn and I have the means, the financial means to help out. And I think I have, you know, a good business acumen and I know how to move forward relatively quickly. So I said, if you want to truly do that, I'm in, man, 50, 50. And we'll go and we'll figure this thing out.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And. Oh boy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Like what, what a wild venture for you guys to both be like, you know what, let's start. Was it, let's start a record label or was it just going to be like, hey, let me just, just help you out as an independent artist first. It literally was record label from the gate, right?

[C]

Yeah. Because I think, you know, he was, he was kind of like tired of, of being stuck and nothing actually coming to fruition. Like, so it's, it's like, you know, nothing ever really materialized and, and you get tired of that stuff and you're living on like minimal per diems and you can't go out there and really.

[A]

Oh, I get it. Well, we lived it.

[C]

Right. Make a living. So it's like, you know, and, and I, I had to learn, man. I mean, we took and we put together and I, we had to gather a bunch of songs and a lot of the earlier producer of those songs wouldn't give us the files because they wanted to be paid a second time. That was a really volatile thing and I'll save all the back on that.

[A]

The music industry is so snaky.

[C]

What's that?

[A]

The music industry can be so snaky.

[C]

It's, it's, it's filled with a bunch of people that I, I, I, I don't care for. 90 plus percent of the people that's in the music business.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and I, that's, nah, that it hasn't changed.

[A]

I still don't like your Travis.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I don't. Because. Because there's so. There's so many of them. They're full of. They're people that are not. They're not, you know, are. They're failed musicians who find a way to wiggle into a position in the business and then they don't know what the they're doing.

[A]

I call them car salesmans because they all have that. That icky, like, car salesman personality.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[C]

All those comments. Oh, yeah, that's gonna be bananas of bananas.

[B]

Especially in la.

[C]

Yeah, it was la. Everything was. Everything was bananas in la and everybody. So in New York, like, everybody was. Yeah, it was crazy.

[A]

So I have a couple questions that I want to ask you guys, if you guys don't mind, because I. I really am just so blown away by what you guys have built. But at a time when labels were everything, you. When labels were everything, you guys went the independent route. Did you guys ever doubt yourselves, like, whenever you were first starting out?

[B]

Well, you know, you got to be a kind of a crazy. Slightly crazy to. To lose 140k on your first tour and then go back. Right.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

When. When this thing started, in the first couple of years, we were. I was a little over $2 million of my own money in. And initially I had in my mind that, you know, I might end up spending a couple hundred grand to get this thing to go the right way. Not 2 million, you know what I mean? And, but. But things. Things were challenging, things were expensive, and it was hard to figure it all out. And we kept having to throw money at it.

[B]

And it was harder because I was a black kid with spiked red hair with a painted face, Bishop's robe on stage, up under it, blood, clothing. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it was just like a clusterfuck.

[A]

I would feel like that would set you apart from everybody else, though.

[B]

It did. But it's a long but not in

[A]

a good way road. Right.

[B]

If you're not doing what everybody else is doing, you know.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Think about this. Back then in like 99, 2000, 2001, there were no independent hip hop tours, period.

[A]

Right.

[C]

The only hip hop tours there were is like, you've seen Run DMC coming with the Beastie Boys, or have you seen, you know, there was a few of them. Yeah, stuff like that. But there was no independent hip hop touring at all.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So then take add in black dude with. With wearing like, spiked red hair. His name is Tech9.

[B]

The name of a gun. First Strike.

[C]

Right, right. And then he's got face paint on and in a preacher's robe and he's got two strippers taking the preacher's robe off.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So like, like, so it was not an easy sell to white America. White club owner America. So I'd literally get on the phone with these guys because I started by putting together our own tours by ourselves. We didn't have an agent. Nobody was messing. They were not going to touch us with a ten foot pole. Then. The club owners didn't want that in their club. They, they, they were, they were so fearful of it. So we would make deals. I had to talk to tech, like, man, this is crazy. But, you know, our very first paid show was 500 bucks.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[C]

At a, at an Italian restaurant that turned into a night nightclub during the weekend. Simply Sicily, Simply Sicilian in Blue Springs, Missouri.

[A]

So shout out to them for giving you an opportunity though, right?

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

You had to tell them to give the money back if we have any problems.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. We had to literally convince all these different people by saying, hey, look, let us come there, let us do this show, we'll do a door deal and if anything goes wrong, you keep all the money.

[A]

So would people not let you buy on to tours? Was that not a thing back then?

[C]

They wouldn't let. We, we, we didn't really want to go with the idea of buying on because there were no tours back then.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, I mean, this is. Honestly, there were no tours to buy on to for someone like him or us or whatever. So we had to go out there and do it ourselves or we weren't going to see anybody, we weren't going to tour. And, and that's where we lost, you know, money on the first tour. But I always looked at it like, look, if we can get in these places and we can plant a seed, then great. Yeah, we're going to spend money. You spend money when you do that. And then we'll come back the next time and we'll water it. Right, right. And, and we still may not make money, but at the end of the day, at least we're gaining momentum, gaining fans.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And then once we come back again now maybe we can pick a little fruit, you know, whatever the case might be. So it was a, it was a, it was a journey to get to that point. And, but, but it worked out. You know, we played a show in San Diego at the Blue Agave.

[B]

Seven people.

[C]

Seven people. Seven people. The next time we came, it was, it was like, like much better. 300 and something the next time we came. And every time since then, we've sold it out, every single show in San Diego. So, you know, it worked, but. But nobody knew it. And. And I didn't. I knew that I wasn't gonna fail because I just. I can't accept failure. Like, it's a mental block for me. But.

[A]

And dawn, about you, My.

[C]

My wonderful wife, she never doubted me, but did I get some of these? Looks like. Yeah, I got a few of them. Look. But she never doubted it, and she knew that I couldn't stop and. And. And. And thank God. And she. She helped. She worked there, her and Glenda and, you know, sending out CDs and vinyl to radio stations and stuff out of our basement. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but, yeah, it. It. It. It was interesting in the beginning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you guys feel like the Juggalo community is what accepted you first?

[B]

That did. What?

[A]

Do you feel like the Jug. Juggalo community accepted you guys first?

[B]

Yeah, they came in in 2003.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Now, I already. I started in Kansas City.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? And I think with Mitch Bade being the first thing, all the gangsters were first.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? And then the college kids came, and

[A]

those college kids will run the numbers up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, saying. But we did sprite liquid mixture in 02 with Jay Z, Nerd, Nappy Roots, you know what I'm saying? Hoopa Stank.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. That would be a great. A great tour to, like, circle back.

[B]

So we was already buzzing on that tour. You know, Jay Zena was coming out to see my set on the second stage, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, they heard about this ring. You know, everybody's like, you gotta see this ring.

[C]

You remember, Kanye was there.

[B]

I never saw him, but Chris Calico saw him, and he was with Talib Kweli. He was on that tour, too. So the next year, 03 is when I met the Juggalos, When I. When I finally found out everything about Psychopathic, because I'd heard about Insane Clown Posse years before when they got signed to Disney or something, you know, I was like, baby, more clowns. More clowns.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? I painted my face, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And 03 is when the Juggalos came and added a lot to our fan base.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? And the Metal Heads came, you know, and it just kept growing.

[C]

Well, and that first tour, that first tour that we did with them, Actually the only tour we ever did with them, I guess, other than the Gathering, but it was Insane Clown Posse, it was Bone Thugs in Harmony, it was Cotton Kings iconic. And so it's like, you know, that we, we, we thought, oh wow, what a wild menagerie of craziness. And loved it. And I'll tell you what, their fan base was so intriguing to me because they were so devoted.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And, and looking at that fan base and looking at, I had an opportunity to, to talk to and work with Hank Williams Jr. And go to his Butt Naked barbecue in Paris, Tennessee and all this other.

[B]

Yeah, I missed that one.

[A]

Was everybody naked?

[C]

No, no, the only one naked was probably Hank and that's because he had to climb out of the damn lake that he drove his four wheeler in because he was out of his mind. Hilarious stuff goes on around. They shoot cannons and shit in the backyard.

[A]

Oh, I could only imagine.

[C]

But, but watching the, with the Juggalo fan base, what Hank Williams Jr. Had to do when, when country music shunned him because they didn't want to deal with this nepotism because of, you know, and then looking at that, and then looking at what Kid Rock, this white rapper that moved to New York and was in the apartment downstairs from Queen Latifah. But looking at the fan base that Kid Rock was able to build. And those were the things that were so intriguing to me because look at these fan bases. They built them and all the odds were against them too. And that's when, you know, that's when I think that we really started to focus on how can we look at and understand and take the best things out of all these different people's followings? What can we get out of that? What can we learn from them? And we learned a lot from each one of them, including psychopathic and they're merchandise game was mind boggling. It was so wild to see that man. They, they, they did something that not, not a lot of people have ever done.

[A]

Well, they've built a cult following, you know, and that's, that's where your real core, like fan base is, is in that cult like following. And they, it was a very distinct niche that they had and those people,

[B]

that's why they're still able to do it.

[A]

Oh, it's wild. I literally, I didn't know what a Juggalo was.

[B]

Was.

[A]

But the crazy thing is, is I listened to Insane Clown Posse when I was younger but didn't know the Juggalo statement. I didn't know what a Juggalo was until I went to the gathering.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I saw so many buttholes.

[B]

Right, right, right.

[A]

And people have. I mean, but they are the nicest humans ever. Like, they're so great.

[B]

That was one of the biggest parties I've ever seen. The biggest wildest parties I've ever been to.

[A]

Wild. Yeah. No, it's insane.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So when did you guys know, like, you guys were able to like, look at each other and be like, this is gonna work. When it came to the record label 06. So when like Caribou Cariboulou came out,

[C]

we, we, we hit a few bumps along the way. The very first deal that we did in 2001 was with a company called J Core and a guy named Jay Ferris, who for the record, is a complete piece of shit. Still is to this day. And I'd love to bump into Jay sometime. I take the charge.

[A]

I love how you guys use first and last names.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, Jay, Jay Ferris, uj, You're a piece of.

[A]

But he's like. And I stand on it. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, here's the thing. We did a deal with them and we did everything that we were supposed to do and then he literally sent us to Los Angeles to shoot a video and he would only pay for part of it. So we had to come ante up some money. And. And the only reason we got to shoot the videos because we did a first week number that far exceeded what they thought they were going to do. Keep in mind, we're an independent label. Back then there wasn't independent distribution. There wasn't any Fontanas or those types of small indie label. You still had to get distribution. The only way you could get it at that time was by doing a deal because we didn't have any sales history to really to warrant us being able to get that type of deal. So we did this deal because he had a distribution deal through Interscope and It was a 5050 JV and we outperformed everything that they expected. And then we're supposed to shoot a video. We fly, we get to, we get out to LA and we're in the hotel room and we're supposed to do something the first, the next day, and it doesn't happen. And then another day goes by, still nothing. Because we found out the label or Jay Ferris and J Core Records wasn't, wasn't advancing the money for the video, the deposit. And so we're like, what's going on? A third day pops off and finally I get on the phone and I'm talking to the people over there, because you can't ever get to Jay. And they say, well, he's had a change of heart and thinks that you guys need to do more touring before we shoot a video like this.

[A]

What?

[C]

He left us in la. I'm on Sunset, I have to go in the hotel and tell him this. And I'm beyond furious in ways that I can't explain.

[A]

I would not want Travis Ogwen mad at me.

[C]

I. So I, they had rented us a Lincoln Navigator for local use around there. I went ahead and hopped in the Navigator with a couple of the guys that were out there with me. We arranged travel to get him back home. And I literally drove from LA all the way to Kansas City in their Navigator, their rental Navigator. Then I picked up a few of my very, very large friends and drove all the way to New York City where Jay Ferris was.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

To, to, to get out of that deal. And on the way there, I'm talking to my attorneys, drawing up paperwork. You know, he owed us money at that time. And we got there and they still wanted to talk. I was done talking. There was nothing else to talk about. And we went in the offices. They, they had a scare there because they, they, they basically didn't pay a street team company and the street team guys came in there and like beat up a bunch of their monitors with some bass players, baseball bats and scared the. Out of them. And so they had armed security. And so when we showed up, there's armed guards, all this other dumb. And we, we unarmed them and, and placed them in a nice comfortable room and went over and got the paperwork with Jay and got him to sign off on it. And no one was harmed? No, you know, everything went fine.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Real gangsta shit.

[C]

Well, we got the album. Yeah, we got the album back.

[B]

And, and, and we call it angelic reparations.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and, and, you know, in doing that, then you know the guy that took us over there, a guy named Dave Weiner, because Violet Brown was the very big part of the early days. And she had introduced us to Dave Weiner, who was at Priority Records. And then they, you know, they sold. And then Dave went over to J Core and there were a couple other people like Brian Shafton and some others that were a part of that huge success that Priority had during all those years with Master P, with nwa, with everything. And so he ended up quitting that job in protest of the way we were being handled and went back and got with his old mentor, a guy named Mark Cerami. Who was the one of the two owners of Priority Records. And then that's. That's where we ended up. We followed Dave over there and did a deal. And those two deals are the speed bumps and the education that we needed and the sales that we needed in order to get the attention of Fontana and Universal to get our own deal. So then we were able to cut out the middleman and really focus on how to do it the way that we thought it needed to be done.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And. And. And. And MSC wasn't really much better. Mark Cerami ended up being a. A.

[B]

He's an too a person.

[C]

He's a boy.

[A]

I was just gonna say boy.

[C]

Yeah. I really don't mind. Like we actually recently, just a few years ago, we ended up getting all of the albums we put out through him back as well. But you know, and I. He uses his crutch of. He had a stroke. He ate a tray of weed brownies, got on a Learjet to go look at a yacht, had a stroke in the air and had to learn how to eat, walk, talk. And again. Or something. And he wasn't the same guy. But again the guy that took us over there quit in protest again and moved to Hawaii. And so it's like, you know, it was a weird combination. You know, take 2000 to 2006. That's how you can around and spend 2 million bucks.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

And. But we got all of our bullshit back from. From Mark Cerami as well. Him too, for the record.

[B]

And 2006 was when we got with Fontana and then we got to do our deal. We did Ever ready.

[C]

No middleman between us. And look, the results are what the results are if. If we work hard and we perform and we get something, we actually get paid.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Our wires come in religiously every single month. It's so good. And we. We went there and we've been there ever since. We're still there.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean it's changed names. It was Fontana, then it was in Grooves and now it's Virgin Music. But at the end of the day, we ended up finding a way to succeed, becoming in the top one or two or three. Normally top one label that they had. And we've maintained that for a really long time.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And. And been able to do other cool. Like it goes up in our distribution on which is where Jelly came through. You know what I mean?

[B]

So it's like he signed on Valentine's Day in 2020.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. That's so weird that it was Valentine's day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But yeah, man. I mean, it's 2006 is when we realized that now that nobody could screw up the money and nobody was in between us and that then it was all up from there. And that's really when we start having real success.

[A]

Tech. What was it about Travis that made you trust this process? Because that's a long time. 2000, 1999 to 2006, before you guys are even seeing any recourse, you know, like, what was it about the struggle that made you trust him?

[B]

When he said that he. That I opened up and told him everything. He's always been forthcoming with everything. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's always been open, not secretive when it comes to any type of money or any kind of thing that would come in, you know, it's like he's always been open, an open book, just like me. You know what I mean? And you can feel that, you know what I'm saying? Especially being in business for 25 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? It's pretty much self explanatory, like.

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I. I'll always be fond of Travis. He was there when I got my first Rolex. Or was it. Was it me or was I buying Jay his first Rolex?

[C]

You were buying Jay the Rolex? The guy here buying it from a company that I work with all the time out there, you know. Yeah, Carlene Creations. Yeah, that's. That's actually where it came from. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's where I got.

[C]

Yeah, that's actually where that watch came from.

[A]

I think that might be where this one came from. I have no idea. But it just. I. I love. My love for Travis. Always is going to run deep, so just. Really cool. One other quick question. Well, actually too. But what's your take on this mainstream versus independent debate? Because, you know, especially the country rap world right now, they're insane with, you know, wanting it. Everybody needs to stay independent or, you know, should you go mainstream? How do you guys feel about that?

[B]

I think it can work either way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For people. Depends on what you want, Right.

[C]

Yeah, I. I think that. That we were independent way before it was cool, way before it was sexy. We were independent pretty much out of necessity. I think that, you know, the lines are blurred between what was independent and, you know, there's so many different projects that, like, even we worked early with tde, we signed J Rock, we had Kendrick Lamar was over there, you know, Schoolboy Q Absol. Black hippie.

[A]

I love Schoolboy Q.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And so, so, but when you look at that though, like when that deal upstreamed, Interscope didn't want to be mentioned. They wanted it all to be about TDE and Top Dog Entertainment and they wanted it because independent was cooler to the fan base and they felt like it was going to connect better if they were in the shadows. You know what I'm saying? But now I think it's so incredibly blurred that I think that whatever it is, the end goal is if you want to go out there and you want to be huge at radio, you might have to make that sacrifice and sign up with the folks that are capable of doing that. But you also have to make sure that that is the right fit and that they're going to do what they say they're going to do and that you end up getting a result that you want. Because if you don't, that's a very expensive situation. Yes, you go sign a major label deal, you sign a 15, 16, 17, 18 point deal and now you're recouping at the rate of that deal. And so, you know, everybody doesn't understand that for every hundred dollars the major label spins and, and, and then they recoup, you're only getting $18 of a credit out of that hundred bucks. And so now you're in a pretty deep hole. And how wild is it not to make money? And you got the number one record in the country and you're not getting paid though from, from the record label.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It's because the deal structures are very favorable to those majors and that's. But if it goes crazy and you have seven number one songs, then it begins to make a lot more sense. And you have the ancillary, you have the touring income, you have all of the merchandise income and all these other ancillary incomes. So sometimes a major deal makes sense and works for folks, but the deals are common, constantly shifting and changing. Yes, distribution is constantly shifting and changing and how it's done. So it's, it's, it's, it's a wild time. But you just have to be smart and dissect the deals that are in front of you and really try to figure out what your, what your path is. If, if you don't care as much about radio or you want to go through the process of hiring and doing radios and working with the independent yourself. Yeah, you could of course do that too. And then your reward is much, much greater. If it does connect and it does go, you're going to end up in a really great place.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You know, but, but I mean it's.

[A]

I feel like radio is so outdated too. Like how you have to get plays and all that stuff. Like I, watching my husband go through it, which I'll probably get for talking about this. I just feel like they're. The way they go about things is so outdated. And isn't everything more on streaming now as opposed to radio?

[C]

Every everything is, is indeed more on streaming than it is radio. But radio, terrestrial radio is still a big factor on getting people to a mass popularity. It is unfortunately or fortunately, however you look at it, still kind of like the. It's a huge part of it. But now you don't. Only when we started it was about the music. Now it's also about the social media.

[A]

Right.

[C]

It's about the tick tock. It's about Instagram, it's about. And not only that, but now wait a minute. Not only do I have to do those things, but okay, my TikTok needs to be for my personal moments or something. You know, you got to campaign the. Right. So it's about this. And then my Instagram is going to be about the music making process and then my Facebook's gonna. You have to come up with strategies and plans and, and you navigate this space all the time. But like it's way bigger than, than the music now. And that kind of sucks.

[A]

Right. And, and they want the personality behind them. Yeah.

[C]

And, and, and but streaming, streaming is the, the biggest that we're all dealing with. How is a guy, Daniel Ek, how Is he worth 3.6 billion or no, 4.6 billion recently on the backs of all the artists? And how did, how did they make a 1.5 billion dollar profit yet they're paying less than 1/3 of 1 penny per stream of the actual artists that put in the work.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And the way it happened was the three majors made an alignment with Spotify. They have ownership stake and it was the new way for them to get control of the business again because independents like us were kicking their ass. We were the subject of a lot of different board meetings where guys would go in and like, literally like I had this guy Richie who used to call me, he's like, man, you. I'm like, what's up? He's like, dude, we had to hear about you guys for 30 minutes straight. People yelling at us over how in the are they doing this? And we can't even do this.

[B]

50 cents that he used to tell his artist about us.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah, so, so it's like you know, but, but, but, but streaming is, is really, really twisted. And the creative accounting that goes on with streaming and you got guys that are making songs in AI, a hundred thousand songs, collecting millions of dollars, dollars. It's up and I'm, I'm waiting for people to get as sick and tired as we are. You know, you, you got to get people to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.

[B]

Right?

[C]

And, and to make a change.

[A]

But there's no way an artist can fight back for that.

[C]

We, we, we have a lot of really kick ass ideas. Like back when we did the whole, the industry thing, that whole campaign, we have it. But there are much larger risk at play now because you know, when you're, when you're not making any money and you know you're willing to say and do a lot of shit to rattle cages, you know, and now we have to be very methodical because we have artists that are signed to the label. If we did something radical like pull all their shit off of a platform to create our own platform, we could run into obstacles that would be uncomfortable for others. So it's not just his and mine at stake now. It's a whole collective of people and content and catalog that we have to be mindful of. So we're hoping to do it in a better way. Still, still, you know, going crazy on people and doing things differently is, I'm down for that and I have no problem saying, you know, well, obviously I've said it a few times. Yeah, yeah, I don't have any problem. The industry and anybody else that, that wants to not treat artists fairly. Yeah, that, that shit pisses me off to the core. And I, I don't know how you, you can allow people to put all their work in and pay them fractions of pennies. That shit, that shit is irritating beyond words.

[A]

No, it's, it's, it's not fair at all. Touching base real quick on the artists that you guys have signed. You guys have Chris Calico, Ritz, Mayday and Stevie Stone. Artists like that. What do you guys look for in an artist before bringing them in? And what would somebody have to do to be signed by you guys? If somebody's listening to this right now and is like, I want to go to strange music.

[B]

Well, I like artists that understand music and I don't have to babysit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? I like artists that I can see hanging with me artist wise, you know what I mean? That are able to do hits if you got a chop, you know what I'm saying it's not a requirement, but you know what I mean, we started something strange. Music and chopping was part of it. You know, I mean, but we have other songs, like you said. Caribou Lou.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He'll Go Crazy and Everybody But Me and, you know, you've got a whole bunch of songs that, you know, we look for artists that can do that. Like you. You found Sky Daddy, right?

[A]

I love her.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Sky is doing incredible things. She's through the distribution. And. And I, I think also another thing that we look for, because you mentioned artists like Chris Calico and others, I think people that can create music that means something that is meaningful to the human experience.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's. That's what I want to hear something as a message. How. Yeah, how can. What? What. And sometimes, you know, the. The content is heavy, but that heavier the content, the more help it provides to people going through the same thing who feel like they're alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, like, if you took all of these thousands of emails that we get talking about how the music saves someone's life and, and listen, let's assume. Let's assume for this purpose that only. That's only really true one time. That's okay. It's still worth it if you could actually say something that you help.

[A]

Do

[C]

you work with an artist? They created this wonderful song and this helped this person take the gun out of their mouth. That's huge. And that's what therapeutic music should do. And that's the one thing that drew me so much to your husband, was all of that. Because knowing that people have that reaction to what he is saying on these tracks is massive to me. And walking down, you know, I was telling him the story last night where me and Jelly used to walk down Broadway when I came and visited, and a few people knew who he was and that was a cool interaction.

[A]

But then inside, I won't go with him anywhere. It turns into a meet and greet

[C]

inside the restaurants, though, when people would come up crying to him. And way back then, yeah, I'm like, like, there it is. This. This is why I have to help him grow this thing. There's no I. At that point.

[A]

You were there for Save Me. You're. You are what helped Save Me get the notoriety that it got.

[B]

Because he wasn't sure about it. I'm sure. I think I heard something. He wasn't sure. He wasn't sure how his fans would take him singing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

He, he. It was the very first time, you know, we talked about we talked about the five year plan. You've heard the five Year Plan. And then we talked about getting to the root of what it is he really wanted to do, which it took me a while to get him to open up to me and tell me about his mom and his dad and the music they played and his wanting to write songs and how he wanted to be a part of music grow and then how he wanted to get more into the singing. And we finally. He does this song and then he sends it to me and he's like, can we just get this up real quick? He was afraid of that song. You know that, right? I mean, I know he talked to you. He told me about his conversations with you, too, and you thought the song was beautiful.

[A]

I told him it would be as big a song he ever did.

[C]

Right, right, right. And. And. And you were right. Yeah, as did I. I said, look, this is going to be. This is what we've been talking about. It doesn't. You know, he. He told me that it's the first song he ever did without a rap verse. And I'm like, okay, now I can't

[A]

get him to rap. Can you make them rap again type, please? I miss rapper Roll. Okay, yeah, but.

[C]

But that's the. Maybe like. Like Save me, though, is. That's a mess, that song. What. What are we at? 298 million video plays on a simple, simple video. That's because it connected, it touched. It means so much to so many people. And to.

[A]

To.

[C]

To. To be able to be a part of that. That's the only reason, honestly, Bunny, the only reason that I'm still doing this. I have no financial reasons to do this anymore.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I haven't had for a long time. Neither is he.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But the reality is, when you know that your music has such an impact on people, People that. That's hard. You can't. If you help create the soundtrack to a lot of people's lives, and then what do you do? You just say, oh, never mind. And you. What? Yeah, so. So that's. That's it, you know, And I deal with the things like with McKenzie and. And all these other. The mental health of our country is challenged pretty heavily.

[A]

So.

[C]

And if we can create stuff that helps people and human beings and help them stay alive, yes, we better do this. We better continue or else. Like, I feel responsible. Like, it's like it ain't even a job for money. It's like a responsibility is where I'm

[B]

at with and with and to follow. What strange Music means the S. And the logo is taken from the rod of Asclepius. You know, you usually see it at hospital. You see the snakes going around the rod symbolizing medicine.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the bat being nocturnal. We are the medicine that navigate through the darkness. So we've fit that tight like a. You know what I mean?

[A]

Absolutely. Your song Fragile is like saved me for me.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I was going through a really bad, abusive relationship when that song dropped, and it literally, like, saved me so many times. So, I mean, you guys are definitely making therapeutic music and totally. Yeah. No, it's amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you for sitting in. I appreciate you being here so much. Yes. Thank you, tech. We're going to move on, but I'm going to let you guys go because I feel like I've kept you for so long. But we're going to move on just a little bit. I want to touch base on one story that I heard before, though, because you're, you're. You were touring at a pace of doing 250 shows a year at one time. That's insane.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[A]

Like, how does somebody function to be able to do that?

[B]

Many shows conditioned ourselves throughout the years to be able to know what to do with your voice, for one, you know, by cutting out the party after the show.

[A]

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[B]

Getting rest, you know what I mean? You had to go through the early on to know how you don't be hoarse during the show.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know what I'm saying? On that ICP tour, man, I, I lost my voice in Kentucky, man. It was, it was, it was, it was frightful. And ever since then, I really start pacing myself, you know what I mean?

[A]

You learn your lesson.

[B]

So we, we've always been conditioned to do it. We've done, we've done it so much that at the end of some tours, I've popped my gastrocnemius muscle on both sides.

[A]

You know, from jumping.

[B]

Yeah, all that, all that Michael Jackson. Yeah. From, you know, saying the I do on stage.

[A]

No, it's high energy, you know what I'm saying? The minute you start till you end.

[B]

I was off and not stretching and not working out back then when I was popping. Since I've been working out, my personal trainer, I ain't popped a thing on the following reverse tour. I didn't get sick. Not one time.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

One muscle.

[A]

Let's go. That probably contributes to your sobriety too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Touring that much. Do you ever just get afraid that when you're at home you're just going to get lost in your thoughts? Or is it that you just get antsy whenever you have time off?

[B]

Nah, because I never got like that because usually when I'm home is when I start working on record records. You know, we tour, get home, work on music, tour, get home, work on music. You know what I mean? And it was, it was like, it was like that for A long time, you know what I'm saying? And I never felt like I had to, you know, even though I have to do mantras to go to sleep, you know what I mean? I found that and it works for me, you know, but now we. We pretty much have a. I have a. I have a regimen, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

It's a schedule.

[B]

I'm. I'm conditioned to do it.

[A]

Let's talk about your sobriety. Can you take me on that journey? Because it says you almost died from alcohol poisoning one time.

[B]

That's not true, but something like that. Okay, so my life, since my early teens, I've been drinking like a rock star. Because I've pretty much been a rock star.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, you are a rock star. Tech.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You deserve that title.

[B]

I've been knowing that, you know, saying since my teens.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, that's. That's how I felt. That's how I built this to be, you know, a hip hop rock star, you know, so. So imagine every day I wake up, I have breakfast out somewhere or brunch or something. I start the day with maybe three mimosas. Whether it be orange juice mimosa, or a pineapple mimosa. Lunch, you know, you spend a day in studio. You know what I'm saying? Lunch, you take lunch somewhere at a bar. I have maybe three cosmopolitans, top shelf, you know, dinner, you have your red wine. If you go to. If you go to Capital Grill, you're going to have four stolidolies. If you don't know what stolidoli is, it's like they marinate pineapple and vodka and they pour it, you know, and it's fucking beautiful. That's one day. And then I come home, we might have a party. We drinking caribou, Lou, kct, Hennessy, Sprite and lemon. This is daily, right? Because I'm a social drinker and I love to party. So I'm doing this for years, baby. I'm talking about. This is like the drugs that I was doing, you know, I'm saying I stopped that in 06. Or was it 07? It was 06. 07, one of my years, you know, saying it stopped. Ecstasy, shrooms, acid, ghb. What's it called, the red pills? No, no, no. I'll remember in a minute. But I would do that all in one night.

[A]

When was your first time taking drugs? Like hard drugs?

[B]

My first time with X, you know, was 98 when I came home when I. When I first met Travis. He didn't know I was on the, though, right? No. I met a dancer at this club. She gave me my first. No, no, she wasn't the first one. Nope, nope. I take that back. She wasn't the first one. It was a girlfriend I had before that. Was it. 98. This is so hard to find.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

But it was the Grant Rice era for sure. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

So your first drug you ever tried was ecstasy?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Most people, like, smoke weed.

[B]

I don't call weed drugs. A drug, though, right?

[A]

Well, most people, but it is.

[B]

But it is classified as a drug. But to me, it's natural.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just like most rooms. Sorry. And. But I'm talking about drugs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'm saying Molly and ecstasy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I found that first. Yeah, I think. I think. I think the dancer was the first one to give it my first one at a movie theater. She said, you're gonna take this pill. It's gonna take 30 minutes. You're gonna feel like you have to shift. Don't. You know what I'm saying? To up the whole thing. Don't. I'm like.

[A]

So you're not allowed to on ecstasy?

[B]

No. You ain't supposed to. Or mushrooms. You know what I'm saying? You're supposed to fill it and keep that in, you know, that's what I was.

[A]

I never knew.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you get that. I was.

[A]

All the time. You learn something new every day.

[B]

She did fart over there, you know. But anyway, 98. I took my first pill and I was doing that shit all the way from 98 to 2006 or 7, you

[A]

know what I'm saying? And what was it that made you want to get sober?

[B]

Shit was happening, you know, you remember you came up to the house and they said somebody was outside eating pussy at 6 o' clock in the morning outside on the bench. And all the people in the apartment complex could see it. You know what I'm saying? Police came all kind of.

[A]

Was that you eating?

[B]

It was at my house.

[A]

Oh, okay. You know, he's like, I'll never say if it was me or not.

[B]

I have people over, you know what I'm saying? Was going on upstairs, downstairs, outside, you know, when you're on that, you know, you're staying up till 4 and 5 and 6 in the morning.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, you know, jaw grinding, you know. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So Adderall, that was the red pill.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'll put that on top of the ax, you know, it feels so good.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

I should have been.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

I should have been Chris Farley. My. I was. I was putting on top of homes praise, you know what I'm saying? So around 2006, ever ready time, it starts slowing down, you know what I'm saying? Travis said, man, I don't. We had a meeting. Travis said, man, everybody's saying you're gonna die just like Drew Morrison, you know what I'm saying? He said, I can't keep doing business with somebody that's going to kill themselves, man. I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying? I was like, oh, no, I ain't gonna kill myself. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna kill myself now. So, you know, I thought about that. I'm like, I see it every day. People seeing me up like, we're gonna lose them, just like we lost Jim Morrison, you know what I'm saying? This, that, and. Because that's who I. I attributed that idea to do strange music to, you know what I'm saying? I went to Pere Lachaise in Paris and thanked them at the, you know, cemetery, you know. Thank you for the inspiration, brother. You know, I work with the rest of the members after that, you know. Yeah, but when Travis said, you know, man, it's getting bad, dude, you know, saying, I'm like, I'm just kicking it. I don't do this all the time. I did do it all the time, you know, because we in the strip. We. We running a strip club, right? Satin Dolls. We down there. I'm getting every. In the. You know, I'm like a house dad, you know, I can go in there where the are. And I'm sorry I talk like that. But, you know, women are.

[A]

I say. I say it all the time, too. Trust me, I get it.

[B]

Like a bag of 60 rolls, you know what I'm saying? Like, rolls Ecstasy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's what you just call them back then, rolls. You know, you roll in people, you know. But anyway, I'm putting them in mouths like, you know, tech. You gave me my first pill. I see them now, I'm like, damn, I up. You know what I'm saying? Like, I started a lot of people. I was. I used to put it on my tongue. I'd be high and, like, take it off my tongue, baby. You know what I'm saying? I was up, you know what I'm saying? But I was partying, you know, and because I was going so hard. And, you know, me and my partner had that meeting. I'm like, we got eating outside, you know. I said, okay. I went home one night and my kid. This is when it started slowing down. My kid, Rainbow, at the time, she was probably like three, two. I don't know. I. I saw that she saw me. I felt like she saw me being high. I used to sneak in and lay on the couch, you know what I'm saying? Like, I've been there all night, you know what I mean? Sweating like a. My wife at the time is like, when I sleep in the bed, she's like, why are you sweating so bad? I was like, I'm. It's hot in this. He's like, ceiling fan on. It's winter time, you know. What the are you doing?

[A]

You know, right?

[B]

I was dying over there, dude. I ain't know.

[A]

So is this the time that you took 15 Xanax?

[B]

No, I didn't take no 15.

[A]

You didn't take 15.

[B]

15 pills in one night? I'm talking about X pills, right? Yeah, Xanax. I didn't find out about Xanax. To the last day I rolled.

[A]

I got it mixed up. The 15s. This is when you took 15 ecstasy pills?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was out in LA. That's. That's something different.

[A]

Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

[B]

Three at a time. I was on one.

[A]

You're wild.

[B]

I shouldn't even be alive right now. That's why I'm so.

[A]

That's why you're an angel.

[B]

Because I ain't supposed to be here, you know what I'm saying? As much as I drank and I was fucking around, you know what I'm saying? With drugs, you know what I mean? I'm talking about. We had take ecstasy and the GHB together and just fall asleep on the stage in the club. When we get there, it's packed. Everybody let me in. I'm tech nine. Cops waking us up. Tech, man, you gotta wake up, man. I'm on the stage with the bitch that's with me and. And my brother Dino Mac at the time. You know, we sleep on the stage with GHB and ecstasy and drinking Robotussin like it was cool, you know, just doing stupid. Just trying to explode my heart. I don't know. I wasn't trying to. I'm just like it. Let's just go. Let's just go.

[A]

We just didn't know.

[B]

I thought I had it in control, you know what I'm saying? Then we had that meeting. I'm like, you know, I gotta. I gotta calm down. You know what I'm saying? Then Rainbow, I was like, okay, that's my little girl, Rainbow. You know, I'm like, nope, can't do it no more. So 2007 came. I've been clean off all drugs since then. You know, I'm saying? But with the drinking. Four years ago, my doctor told me I was having a, you know, a physical. Dr. Strangelove D' Angelo said, you know, your blood pressure's through the roof and your cholesterol is. You need to cut that drinking out or your heart's gonna explode like your dad, you know? And I was like, oh, I'm gonna die. Okay. I quit. And my. My wife's like, I'll quit with you. Please, just please stop. You know? So Valentine's Day just passed. That was our fourth. Fourth year sober off of liquor.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's hard, man. I've been sober, right? All off liquor since 2018, sober off cocaine and pills since 2017. And, yeah, sobriety is a journey.

[B]

Yeah, it is, man.

[A]

You know, it's a journey.

[B]

Even the mocktails, I take slow, you know, because it's still sugar, you know, when I first stopped, I was on mocktail heaven, and I was like, I'm still getting fat. It's sugar. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I have one every once in a while, you know?

[A]

And do you feel better now and are you sober off drugs or do you still smell weed? You're so brought over everything.

[B]

I don't smoke weed, but I can, right? Saying I want to keep my lungs. So, you know, every once in a while, I might hit it with my wife or something, you know what I'm saying? I don't smoke with nobody no more. That's how I got. That's how I got covet.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Blunts.

[A]

Oh, no, that's the worst.

[B]

I tell my wife. Don't. I don't give a. Who it is. Don't smoke with nobody. Don't bring that sickness in our house, man. No, that's how it's happening. Just licking it, you know, Just feel

[A]

it and chopping it up just to get.

[B]

No, no, no. Sorry.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

So I ain't take. I haven't taken a blunt, or if it's not pre rolled in a dispensary, I'm not with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? So I very rarely smoke. For a while, I was taking a shot of distillate juice. And like I got a person that can make like a lemonade distillate or strawberry distillate, you know what I'm saying? I put in a shot glass and it's.

[A]

What is that?

[B]

It's, it's, it's liquefied thc, you know what I'm saying? I put it in juice. It's called distillate, you know.

[A]

You're a savage, dude. You are a sad. What you mean, dude? Liquid thc. I'd go to the hospital, but it's only, it's.

[B]

The drink is the, the shot is only 20 milligrams or something like that. I can't go.

[A]

I ate some freaking weed butter and called 91 1.

[B]

Yeah, I'm saying 10, that's cool. But beyond 20. Nah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? 10. Yeah, 15, 20. That's it. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Keeps you regular.

[B]

But the shot, the shot glass is like 20, you know, milligrams or whatever. And it's like a body massage. I don't do it no more, right. I was doing it for a while. I don't do it no more because I don't got time, right? You know what I'm saying?

[A]

And do you feel better now that you're so older and like on this health journey?

[B]

Oh, yes, I, I feel better. I'm just nine pounds over my target weight, which was 185 when I wanted to get in my suit for my wedding, you know, saying, yeah, you know, which congratulations. I feel fat as right now. Just nine pounds ahead of 185.

[A]

You know, you gotta allow yourself grace though.

[B]

And you know, I've been working on this album, you know What I mean? 5816 forest, for a long time. And you know, I got a lot of deadlines and I'm still writing verses for. And sometimes I, I miss my workout. I've been. I haven't seen my. I haven't seen my trainer in almost a month, you know what I'm saying? So I got to get back with them because, you know, because I'm in there from 11 to 12 and I get to the studio at 12:30 or 1 and when I get some food, you know what I'm saying? And you know, round three and four, I gotta get home, you know, saying it don't make no sense, right? I need to be in the studio at 10 o' clock to get the time. So I've been missing my workouts to try to get Everything done. You know what I'm saying? And I feel bad as.

[A]

But grace with yourself, though.

[B]

What'd you say?

[A]

I said, just have grace with yourself.

[B]

Of course I give myself grace.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I get up in the morning every day and I flex my. I can still see my abs, but it's still like, you know, I. I love dessert. Dude, I used to hate blueberry muffins my whole life. I love the. Now I'm like, keep them away from me, please. Don't bring in the house. Don't bring that crumble cookie in here, please.

[A]

But you're in your healing dad era too, you know? Like, you've been a dad for a long time, but now you have the Bananas Foster. Oh, my God. Dude, I'm sure she indulges with. With you too.

[B]

Yeah, she does. I'm just saying. Butter cake, wherever we go. Either they got butter cake now. We used to get one each. Now we split it good. You know, you're like.

[A]

Or just have one cheat day a week. That's what I do.

[B]

Yeah, that's cool.

[A]

You have one cheat day a week, and then you just get it out of your system. And now.

[B]

Now we on the gluten free Tate's cookies. You know what I'm saying? Every once in a while, you know what I'm saying? I just love blueberry. I just had blueberry pancakes the other day. I said, look at me. She makes them, you know? You know, gluten free and all that kind of. I'm like, look at me. I'm eating blueberry pancakes, but they're gluten free.

[A]

She said, yeah, so you're doing good.

[B]

But blueberries, though. And it ain't got nothing to do with no blood gang or nothing. I just never liked it, you know? But I love the.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they say it's good for your brain, you know?

[A]

Yeah. It's crazy how your. Your palette changes as you get older, because I was never a fruit girl. I always loved vegetables. I love fruit.

[B]

Something up is happening to me right now. It's as we speak. I haven't had shrimp or lobster since my marriage. I had it. We eloped in Puerto Rico, where her family's from, and on July 14th. And then we had our second wedding for our family and everybody on July 20th in Kansas City. You know what I'm saying? That was a flex, too. We had two weddings.

[A]

Yeah, I love it.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? But I haven't had shrimp or lobster. The just starts feeling weird in my mouth. No did he. I was like. It started feeling weird, Weird, weird. The texture.

[A]

Oh, okay. I was there. You have like an allergic reaction to it.

[B]

No, the texture, I just.

[A]

It just. You outgrow.

[B]

Like now when I bite shrimp, it feels like I'm biting cartilage or something. I don't know. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Yeah. Your taste buds have changed. Maybe because you're sober though, too.

[B]

I mean, that's been four years. I was just. I was just eating that last year, you know, like a. I'm talking about like shrimp bowls and. With sausage in it and potatoes and shrimp, you know, Crab legs. I ain't even had no crab legs yet. I don't know if I'm weird on.

[A]

You got to eat some crab legs, you. Cuz crab legs are bomb.

[B]

I know. I've been eating them all my life.

[A]

A shrimp I'm a little iffy with too.

[B]

Something's with me, you know, saying, tex,

[A]

they call shrimp the roach of the sea or something like that. Yeah. So maybe that the cockroach of the.

[B]

I was just in New Orleans and wouldn't eat no goddamn shrimp. I didn't even have no crawfish. I love crawfish at TOU Fe. I love it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, taste buds are just changing.

[B]

Is changing. I'm eating chicken with skin on it now. I can't do it. I'm taking the skin off now. I've been eating chicken all my life. There ain't no. That ain't no racist or nothing. You know, Everybody chicken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? I've been eating chicken all my life, dude. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

You're just.

[B]

You're all my life. Chicken. Chicken all my life. Sorry. You know, but now I'm eating the. And I feel like that I'm eating human flesh.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

I'm up. Steak was almost out, like, last year because I've been watching these documentaries saying they putting glue in it, and when you cut it, you. I'm like, oh, my God.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

So me and me are having a time. No Diddy.

[A]

But it's.

[B]

Pause. I'm sorry.

[A]

No, D. Your body is probably just trying to go through some sort of transformation something, and it's purging me, and

[B]

I'm still trying to eat the. I ate. I ate a chicken sandwich at the airport yesterday. It was good as, you know. I'm like, okay, chicken's not all the way out yet. You know what I'm saying? This don't have Enough skin on it, you know? All right.

[A]

Yeah. Let your body purge. It's just part of growing. And it could be spiritual, too. Have you ever tried to Google, like, the spiritual meaning of why your body is refusing these meats?

[B]

No, I just think that I ain't supposed to be eating that. I don't think none of us are. I'm sorry.

[A]

Yeah, No, I agree.

[B]

It is what it is. I don't know what I'm gonna turn into in the next years. You know what I'm saying? But I can feel it coming. I'm like, why do I feel like I'm a savage eating meat these days?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying?

[A]

Well, I can't wait to see the transition.

[B]

My lady asked me the other day before I came here. She was like, so I'm gonna. When you get back, I want to have groceries and stuff yourself, you know, some fresh groceries. What do you want? I was like, salad stuff.

[A]

I go through phases like that, too. I go through phases like that, too. And sometimes it's just. Your body just needs a break from that.

[B]

I don't know what's going on, man. It's like, I don't know if I'll ever eat shrimp or lobster. I used to lobster up. I'm rich. I love that.

[A]

Tech is so upset about the shrimp.

[B]

Yeah, it's up because the shrimp they had at the restaurant we went to

[A]

in New Orleans still look good as well, so. Fire.

[B]

And then I took my son. My son came with me for the first time. He came to the super bowl with me. My brothers was down there, my uncle. We all had brunch one morning. The morning of the Super Bowl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Down on. On Bourbon Street. It was wonderful. And I saw that they had crawfish etouffee omelette. I'm like, I gotta try it. But I said, damn, I can't even eat shrimp. And my brother said, I'll get it, and you can taste it. I ain't even taste it.

[A]

He didn't have the urge.

[B]

No. I don't know what the going on with the texture.

[A]

You're just going to phase right now.

[B]

It makes me feel like I'm eating something I ain't supposed to eat. But my wife's like, we gotta eat. You gotta eat something. I'm like, I know. I'm still.

[A]

You gotta get your protein in. So you have to figure out a way to maybe like, eating, like, beans and chicken.

[B]

Yeah, she's been making a lot of beans with, you know, with. What should we Call it with the meat. They put it on the Mexican breakfast. What is it called? Chorizo. There you go. You got the chorizo with the beans.

[A]

You know, chorizo, a sausage.

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know. So it's grinded up. It's cool. Yeah, I love her beans. You know what I'm saying? I love the beans. And I'm. I'm just. I'm just. It's just weird. Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna Google some stuff for you tonight, and I'm gonna send it to Travis and see if I. If we can, like, connect the dots for you. Because I really feel like it might be spiritual for you too. I promise you. Like, I know it sounds crazy, but, like, sometimes there's certain things that your body rejects when you're going through, like, a spiritual awakening.

[B]

She still makes turkey tacos. I love them. I love, you know, crazy. She can make a turkey burger. You can't even tell, dude, I'll be this up.

[A]

I love your love for your wife.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

Tech, I have kept you for two and a half hours, so.

[B]

I told you I'm long winded.

[A]

No, you're good. I'm gonna ask you one last question, and I'm gonna let you go. But so imagine this. You walk off stage from your last show ever. The lights are off, the fans are gone. You're standing alone in the venue. What's the one thing you regret not doing?

[B]

The one thing I regret not doing.

[A]

Like, just in anything. Life, career, anything.

[B]

I thought you're talking about the show because I. I got it.

[A]

That too. Or if you want to talk about

[B]

the show, I always talk to Chris Calico. And I always said when I accidentally tell a joke on stage and everybody laughs, it feels so good. I was like, maybe I should write some jokes. I said, I can't do that. You know, I can't be tech down and write the joke. And I can do it. I can do what the I want to, but I never done it. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

I think you could be a comedian.

[B]

And. And it's like when I come out on stage, what I love so much is that when they. When I walk out, everybody scream. Everybody's smiling at me. It's the best feeling. That's why when you see me rapping like Midwest choppers and I'm smiling behind the mic, like, because everybody's smiling at me. And it's just a beautiful feeling. But when I say something funny in the hole, you hear the crowd, I'm like, that is Crazy. Now I know Dave Chappelle and Kevin Hart and all these people. Cat Williams, all these great people. Bill Burr, you know, I see maybe it's George Carlin crazy. You know what I'm saying? It's like. But it's like Richard Pryor, all of them. I see what they talking about. To make people laugh. Smiling is great, but to laugh.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Ask Jelly if he ever said something on stage and everybody laughed.

[A]

I think he wants to be a comedian right now. That's all he hangs out with is what I mean. I think it's because you guys have made people cry. Your entire.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Careers with how deep your music is.

[B]

What was me music we specialize in.

[A]

Yes. That now you're getting a different response. Response. And it's kind of like a high for you because it's something new.

[B]

So if that was my last show, I'm walking off, I'm like, damn, it's over. I never wrote a joke.

[A]

I love that. I really love that. But would you ever pursue a career in comedy?

[B]

No. I write music so well and you know, I'm not that funny. But you are the kind of. That gets on the elevator and you know when you get. When you put yourself in a box with strangers, it's weird. That's why everybody looks at the numbers, you know, as they're going down. They just watch that or go on their phone because it's weird being in a box with strangers.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Especially with this stranger. Strange music, you know, saying one of the cabos. So when I get on the elevator, I'm the kind of motherfucker to get on to say, okay, if I'm on a floor like five. And I was like, I would, I was gonna tell a joke. But by the time I'm done with this long ass joke joke, we'll be down at 4:1. Everybody will still laugh, you know, in the elevator. It breaks the monotony.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I do it all the time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I'm saying? Because I used to study like Rodney Dangerfields, like Take My Wife and everybody would laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

The OGs.

[B]

Yeah. It's like one liners, you know?

[A]

I think you could do it. I think if you put your mind to it, you could actually.

[B]

I'm sure I could do anything. Your delivery is so mentally I can do whatever the. I'll break down barriers. I've done it my whole career.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

But I never took the time to write some jokes in between my songs like I always said I was gonna

[A]

do, do it now you gotta do it now, you gotta do it now. They're gonna.

[B]

And then you'll have fans like I didn't come and pay for a goddamn comedy show. Tech, it was funny. But that rap.

[A]

No, I don't think so. I think as long as you're rapping in between the jokes and everybody's going to have the best of both worlds, you know.

[B]

I don't know when are we going

[A]

to get a new album from you?

[B]

June 13th. My album, 5816 Forest. Where we moved when my mom married Abu Al Hasan Rasul Khalifa the Muslim. It's an audio series with 17 episodes about my life on 5816 Forest from age 12 to 17 when I ran away from home in the pursuit of becoming Technina.

[A]

I love how you always go back to the nostalgia and the memories and

[B]

it's in chronological order how we moved in and all the shit that happened at school and.

[A]

Yeah, and it's music that's doing all of this.

[B]

Yeah, it's music, all music. But it's an audio series. That's what I call it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Cause music is audio, you know what I'm saying? It's an audio series of events that happen from 12 to 17 when I'm running away, you know what I'm saying? And it's in chronological order from 12 my mother years old, my mama fell in love with a Muslim, 58 block. She took them or some, you know what I'm saying? It's brand new music. I don't know at all right now, but it's starting at the beginning, you know. The first song is called the birth, then the second song is called Friday to Sunday, you know what I'm saying? Triality. We're on 58, 16, 4. It's I found the king, the clown and the G, you know what I'm saying? How all three of my personalities began, you know what I'm saying? So it's all the way to the age 17 and then after the strange music tag we have a song called J Sixes after the tag. We never put a song after the tag, you know, and it's called J Sixes. And it's two years after I ran away, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

I can't wait for that.

[B]

And how my J. My Jordan sixes were my good luck charm. Whenever I wore them, I wore them down here, you know, I mean I don't have them on now but I had them on yesterday day.

[A]

Have you ever thought about doing a documentary or like having.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're still writing it. Yeah, we're still writing the tech N story, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I'm saying right now? You know what I'm saying?

[A]

You have so much lore though. Like I feel like you could have like a series of documentaries.

[B]

It can be a movie, literally. Yeah, it could be a crazy ass movie. It's one of three hour movies though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, say like some Black Panther, you know, like.

[A]

No, absolutely.

[B]

But yeah, man, I got a lot to talk about and 5816 forest is very informative because I've told these stories in interviews before, you know what I'm saying? Like we talking but you never heard them in rhyme for them. A lot of these stories like I have down in the middle. It's a song called Excited where I talk about 14 years old. This black girl I was dating named Chanel Winfrey broke my heart because I went to her 14 year old 14th birthday party. It was on the next block. And you know, I went over there with my boy Snubby and you know, we're dancing and when it's when the lights went off, you know, in the hood, I had to go across the street to ask my stepfather and my mom, can I go back to the party? It won't be for too much longer. I know the lights are on and he's like, yeah, you can go. When I came back, I was looking for her. Everybody was slow dancing. It was a red light and I couldn't really see. And I, I open a room and my boy Snubby was on top of her, kissing. She broke my heart, you know what I'm saying? And then I have, then I have the song right after that. It's called the Nice One. How the white girls in the school. I was the, I was the. I was hanging with my thug homies from the hood. But whenever, whenever, like a new Caucasian girl would come into school, they would hear and find me at my lockers like, you're Aaron, right? I'm like, yeah, we hear you're the nice one. I'm like, okay, you know all the thug I hang with. So the nice one is right after, you know, I'm saying it shows the duality of, you know, saying my taste has never been okay. I'm oh, you know, I'll just date this girl because he's black. I date this girl, he's white. I did this girl because he's Puerto Rican. I did this girl because he's Asian. I never had a A type, right? I was just love, you know, whatever. Love. Whatever that felt like. It didn't matter what it looked like.

[A]

You still lead with love and everything that you do.

[B]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So 5816 Forest is a journey. It's an audio series. 17 episodes. Crazy.

[A]

June 13th, baby. Yeah, I can't wait.

[B]

So the last song, Sacrifice is the only one it ain't done. That's the jelly roll hook.

[A]

Yeah. Son of a. I'm gonna go home and spank him.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

He's actually downtown.

[B]

You guys finished?

[A]

You know, you guys could probably find him downtown. He's doing a whole bunch of interviews today. I don't know exactly.

[B]

I'll call him and see everything else is done. That's the one that don't have a hook.

[A]

I will get on his ass for you, I promise.

[B]

And I really was gonna do it, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

If he says he's gonna do it, he'll do it.

[B]

If I would have had it. When he was on, when he came to visit me on the Falling in Reverse tour, he got on my bus, he said, what you working on? I like, I'm working on this album called 5864. He said, you got anything for me? I said, nope, but I will find it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I found Sacrifice, you know, So I got that across my chest, you know what I'm saying? Years ago, you know, everything I had to do to sacrifice, the time I spent, it was perfect because some was me shit. But you know, the shit I had to do, I couldn't, you know, go be with everybody else because I had to sacrifice. And while I was being on Punishment and shit like that, I worked on my craft, you know what I mean? I became tech 9, you know, and it saved my life, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's the last song, you know, I'm saying Sacrifice and it's beautiful. The album is crazy.

[A]

I can't wait to hear it. I'm so excited.

[B]

Yeah, we used one producer on this, one producer I've never worked with. His name is J. Peasy. He brought that. That ghetto funk that I ain't had in a long time, you know, like, like, like that. I had like back in the Rogue Dog Villain days and let's get up and. And Mitch Bay days. It's those kind of beats, you know, And I was scared at first. I told Black Walk, cuz he's the one told me, man, your fans want to hear all you. Nobody else rapping on it. Just people. If you want to put some people on the hook, that's cool. Wayne did a hook, you know what I'm saying? And dope. It's called Yoda. And then Little Wayne. Yeah. Then Jelly got sent one, you know what I'm saying? Got a couple of people that's doing hooks, but I'm. All the verses, and it's never been done while we've been doing this, you know what I'm saying? So when Black Walt first brought me the idea, I was like. I've been hearing fans say they tired of me doing, you know, collaborations all this time, you know what I'm saying? They just want to hear all me on the song. I think that's boring as, like, nah. And I told Travis, that's what Black Walt said. And he said, Travis said, he's right tech, you know, so they want to hear you rapping, you know, saying and doing your thing, you know, I love

[A]

that Black Walt is still around.

[B]

Black Wally's still around.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah, he just. He just. He just got out of jail some years ago, you know what I'm saying? He was. You know, he's clocking much dollars on the 1st or 15th, sorry, you know what I'm saying? But I got into it, the album, and doing all the verses and, you know, a lot of the hooks, too, you know, and I was like, holy is so. It relieved me.

[A]

Yeah. What's therapeutic for you?

[B]

I found. I found. I found solace in talking about my stepfather and me running away when he was trying to make me a real man. I didn't understand it when I was 17, but when I got out in the world, I understand he was trying to make me better. And I said, I love him and thank you. And I played him. My brother Hakeem played him the song and he said he was so happy. And tell Donnie I said thank you. You know what I'm saying? Because I probably with him. I never came back.

[A]

Did your stepfather. Is your stepfather still alive?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

We played on the song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it's called the Punishment. He used to have me on punishment all the time because I lived in a blood neighborhood and he knew when I was around my homies was happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so he's like, I up in school. I'm in punishment for the whole summer. Well, summer's on punishment.

[A]

I can't wait to hear this album. And I think that it's gonna. I think it's actually innovative what you guys are doing, because I don't think anybody's ever really done this, so I

[B]

ain't never heard nobody else call their upcoming album audio series with 17 episodes.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's you. You guys are just creating a your own wave again.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah.

[A]

Thank you so much for being here, Ty.

[B]

Thank you for having me. It was so natural and so comfortable.

[A]

I appreciate you being here, Travis. I appreciate you being here. Being here. And I just. I can't wait to see, you know, your growth and your journey just continue like it has been for all these years. Three decades, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, you have just been moving and shaking.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you don't plan on stopping, and I love that.

[B]

So thank you.

[A]

Come back and see me.

[B]

Yay, Michelle.

[A]

Thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of dumb Blonde. I'll see you guys next week. Bye.

[C]

Sa.

[B]

You

[A]

a vacation rental shouldn't come with surprises.

[B]

It should come with Verbo Care and 24.

[A]

7 Life Support. If the hot tub's broken, that's a verbo care thing. If my teenager starts calling me Leslie, that's a family thing. Leslie.

[B]

Verbo Care and 24.

[A]

7 Live support. If you know you verbo terms apply. Seeverbo. Com Trust for details.