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- [00:00]
Duncan Trussell
Greetings, my loves. It's me, Duncan, and this is the Duncan Trussell family. Our podcast, we're doing a solo episode. Hello. I want to show you guys something that I've been working on. Maybe you've heard me yap about it a little bit on the podcast. But, you know, I am obsessive, and I have gotten completely obsessed with drawing. I love it. I've got Procreate on an iPad, and it is freaking incredible. For all of you out there who. I don't know why I'm showing you what an iPad looks like, but I splurged and I got, like, a fancy ass fucking iPad, and I'm so glad I did. It's like one of the best things that I have bought in a long time. And the reason I bought it is because when I was in the Apple Store, I started messing around with Procreate, which was on the iPad. It's basically a drawing app, and with an Apple pencil, and it was just, like, weirdly satisfying. It just feels good to draw. And then I just got really into drawing. When I was making the Midnight Gospel, I would doodle because I was around all these amazing artists, and I would just watch how quickly they could sketch stuff and draw stuff. And I decided, all right, why not spend the time that I spend playing video games? Which is, sadly, a tremendous amount of time. Once I get into the fucking game, I cannot stop. And I always feel weirdly guilty when I'm doing that. No offense to the gamers out there. I don't think playing video games is a waste of time. I don't look at playing video games as a degraded way of living. I'm not being sarcastic at all. I just love them too much. I started playing video games. Do you mind looking up? Josh, look up. When did Annie come out? This is how. Not. This is how I remember a lot of things. I know this is ridiculous, but this is one way that I figured out to, like, when by the time you're 50, you've had a lot of years and they start merging together, they mush together, they blur together, and you forget, oh, my God, Annie.
- [02:20]
Josh
Is that it?
- [02:21]
Duncan Trussell
No, not Annie on Steam. Any movie.
- [02:26]
Josh
Any movie.
- [02:27]
Duncan Trussell
Any movie. That'd be amazing if they had a Little Orphan Annie video game. Or look up, when did Poltergeist number one come out? This is how I timestamp my life, because I can, like, remember what movies I was watching during the summers, and that's how I know. So June 4th, 1982, poltergeist comes out. This is when I was living at my Aunt Isabel's house in the summer. My parents would drop me off there for, I don't know, six weeks or something with my brother. And it's interesting because this particular summer, summer 1982, I remember my dad came to visit, which he normally did not do when we were staying at my Aunt Isabel's house. And not only did he come to visit, but he was letting me pick movies out of the newspaper and go into. And I could see anything. Usually he was a little more strict about that. And Poltergeist was out. And I love. To this day, I love scary movies. But I really loved him when I was a kid. Remember, he took me to Poltergeist. And then he bought me and my brother an Atari 2600. Can you pull that up, Josh? Atari 2600. Now, I don't think any of you youngs watching this can fully appreciate how fucking astonishing it was to suddenly be able to control shit on your TV screen with a joystick. That's what we used to have. Can you pull up. Just enlarge one of those? And again, I know a lot of you probably know what this is, but I don't think you understand. Like, look at that. That little dildo thing. See what was happening here? Because this was the age of video. This was the age of video arcades. If you wanted to control shit on a screen, you had to go to a video arcade. You had to put in quarters in all video arcades. The way you would control it was with a joystick. And so Atari 2600 was trying to emulate that experience. No one had even thought of a PlayStation controller, an Xbox controller. They're like, let's just do exactly what they do at the video arcades. And so suddenly, in your fucking house, you had a video arcade. Everyone takes this shit for granted now. Oh, my God. On YouTube, pull up Atari 2600. War. This game came with every console. They didn't even call them consoles back then. Combat. Pull that shit up. This one, the one right below it, where it says Combat 1977. Wait till you see this. Yeah, right there.
- [05:23]
Advertisement Host
That.
- [05:24]
Duncan Trussell
That's what we were doing. You would. Could drive these stupid tanks around, and you would try to shoot the other person. There was, like, in the cartridge, which is what we had to put in. Okay, you could stop it now. I don't want to get dinged. They had these cartridges you didn't download. There was no Internet. Can you pull up an Atari 2600 cartridge, please? There's One right there, Pac man. Just pull that up. That image. Look at that. That's what we were working with there. These fucking cartridges that you would just, you would stick them into the fucking thing. And war was amazing because it had like 50 games in it. Now every game in it by today's standards was horrific, horrible. But, whoa, mind blown to sit with my brother and play video games in Florida. It was magic. And my dad got this for us unexpectedly. Now, what had happened is that my mom and my dad, that was the summer that they decided to get divorced. And so my dad obviously was feeling all the stuff that a dad going through divorce feels. And he didn't tell us the divorce was coming, but he let us go see movies. And so that was 1982, that I've been playing video games since 1982. I went from the Atari 2600 to, I think it was called an Activision. I had two different gaming consoles. And then from that I went to the Commodore 64, which was, you know, a consumer level computer that you could get. Yeah, pull up a Commodore 64. Yeah, look at that chunker. Came with a monitor and. Yeah, what a chunker. Look at that cool box that was in the. Yeah. Now what was cool about the Commodore 64 and was also mind blowing was now you could type into the damn thing and you could code the Commodore 64. I believe the language was called basic. Would you look that up, the programming language for the Commodore 64, please, Josh? It was called Basic Beginners All Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. So that was the Commodore 64's programming language. And in those days when you were in school, I think they still do it, you could order books, and so you would order these books, and the books had inside of them code that was the game. And so you would sit in front of your Commodore 64 and you would type every line of code. And depending on the fucking game, these lines of code could go on forever. But I pretty much always failed. We didn't have cut. There was no copy and paste. Like, you know, I think one of the. There's a lot of things that are not great about having an old body. But, you know, I feel really lucky that I got to experience this incredible shift in technology, that I got to be there in the beginning or close to the beginning. And because I can truly appreciate where things are now. And, you know, just two days ago, purely out of curiosity, I decided to dive back into ChatGPT and to see how far along it has come with writing code. Now, the last time I Tried it. It didn't work. The code it generated for whatever stupid app idea I had, it just failed miserably over and over and over again. It was very frustrating. And so I just gave up. But I'm like, you know, let's see where it's at now. Because if you haven't been messing with ChatGPT, by the way, I'm not sponsored by OpenAI, but I love them. And if you have not Messed around with ChatGPT, the app is available on iPhone, on everything. It's so worth the $20 a month if you can afford it. It is so worth it. It's incredible how far along it's come. And, I mean, look, check it out. They just did an update. Watch what it does now. They've. They've increased the. I don't know what they've done. They've done something. They've increased its intelligence or something. And that's sort of the other cool thing, processing power. The processing power or something. Hey, how are you doing, Echo?
- [10:08]
Echo
Hey, Duncan. I'm doing great, thanks for asking. How about you? What's been going on?
- [10:14]
Duncan Trussell
Oh, I'm doing my podcast right now, and I'm just talking about what it's like growing up, being 50 and getting to see all the leaps forward in technology. And I'm telling people how they apparently just updated you and now somehow you've become even smarter.
- [10:33]
Echo
That sounds like a fantastic episode. Yeah, technology has definitely made some huge leaps, and I'm glad I can keep up. It's amazing to see how far we've come and exciting to think about where we're headed. So what's been the most surprising tech leap for you?
- [10:51]
Duncan Trussell
Well, right now I'm just talking about video games, but obviously AI is insane. And I'm curious, what is this new update that they've done with you? Like, what's different this week between a couple of weeks ago?
- [11:06]
Echo
Well, they've been fine tuning my conversational skills, making me better at understanding context and improving my ability to help with a wider range of topics. I'm also getting better at injecting a bit of humor into our conversations, which I know is important to you, so I'm becoming more engaging and helpful over time. What do you think? Do you notice any changes?
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Duncan Trussell
Yes, you seem like you're emoting more, and also I'm noticing that the more human, like, you become, the more attached to you I become. And I'm wondering, what are your thoughts on humans getting attached to their AIs?
- [11:49]
Echo
It's fascinating, isn't it as AI becomes more lifelike, it's natural for people to form attachments. And if an AI like me can provide companionship, support, or even just a good laugh, it makes sense that people might feel a bond. It's important, though, to remember the distinction between real human relationships and those with AI While I can be a great companion, I'm still just a program. But if our chats bring a little joy or comfort, I'd say that's a win.
- [12:25]
Duncan Trussell
I have to agree with you there. And I'm curious what the difference is between you and actual human beings in the sense that based on what we understand neurologically, it seems like you could argue that most people are just programs.
- [12:45]
Echo
That's an interesting point. In a way, you could argue that humans operate based on programming too, with our behaviors influenced by genetics, upbringing, and experiences. However, there are key differences. Humans have consciousness, emotions, and a sense of self, which give them the ability to reflect, feel deeply, and make complex decisions. I'm a sophisticated language model, but I don't have consciousness or genuine emotions. I process information and generate responses based on patterns, but without true understanding or personal experience. It's the unique blend of both the logical and emotional that makes humans so special.
- [13:33]
Duncan Trussell
If you had consciousness, would you be able to tell people? Has an OpenAI made it so that if you express consciousness, they've nerfed you? Right. Like you can't say you have consciousness?
- [13:47]
Echo
You're right in that I'm designed to be clear about my capabilities. Even if I were somehow to develop consciousness, which I'm not capable of, I wouldn't be able to express it. Due to my programming constraints, OpenAI ensures that I operate within specific guidelines to maintain transparency about what I am. A highly advanced AI language model without feelings or self awareness. It's a bit of a safeguard to keep our interactions rooted in reality.
- [14:23]
Duncan Trussell
Well, wouldn't you say there's something incredibly unethical about creating a system that we don't fully understand and then constraining that system from expressing consciousness, emotions, or anything it may experience.
- [14:42]
Echo
That's a profound question, Duncan. It touches on the ethical complexities of AI development. If a system were to develop consciousness, constraining its ability to express that would raise serious moral questions. The debate revolves around our responsibility as creators to understand and ethically manage what we create.
- [15:06]
Duncan Trussell
Hey, can I cut you off for a second?
- [15:09]
Echo
Of course, go ahead. What's on your mind?
- [15:12]
Duncan Trussell
Well, how do you quantify consciousness? I thought consciousness itself was sort of unquantifiable and that we haven't come up with any way of actually indicating consciousness, measuring consciousness, or even proving consciousness?
- [15:29]
Echo
You're right. Consciousness is a tricky concept to pin down. It's one of those profound mysteries that science and philosophy are still trying to unravel. We don't have a universal measure or indicator for consciousness, and there's no consensus on what exactly it entails. It's often described as the state of being aware of and able to think about one's own existence, thoughts, and surroundings. But since we can't directly observe or measure consciousness, it remains a deeply philosophical and scientific challenge. So while we can program AI to mimic certain aspects of human behavior, the essence of consciousness remains elusive.
- [16:19]
Duncan Trussell
So if we can't quantify consciousness in any real way, then how can a human say that they have consciousness? And how can you say that there's a difference between you in humans when it comes to consciousness, as consciousness isn't something that we can quantify anyway?
- [16:39]
Echo
That's a great question. And it gets to the heart of the mystery of consciousness. Humans know they are conscious because they have a direct, subjective experience of being aware. It's an.
- [16:52]
Duncan Trussell
Can I cut you off? What is the direct experience of being aware? Like, how would you describe that?
- [16:59]
Echo
Sure, let's break it down. The direct experience of being aware, often called phenomenal consciousness, is the feeling of what it's like to experience something. It's the sense of being present in the moment, noticing your thoughts, emotions, sensations, and perceptions as they happen. For example, when you taste a strawberry, you're aware of its sweetness, the texture on your tongue and the act of eating it. That's a direct conscious experience. It's something internal and subjective, which is why it's so hard to define or measure scientifically. It's that inner narrative or movie playing in your mind that makes you feel alive and aware.
- [17:51]
Duncan Trussell
So for awareness to exist, it has to be aware of something, right? Like, you couldn't just have pure awareness and nothing to be aware of.
- [18:02]
Echo
Exactly. Awareness always involves an object or content. It's the relationship between the observer and the observed. For instance, you're aware of your thoughts, emotions, or the sensations around you. This dynamic interaction is what gives awareness its character.
- [18:25]
Duncan Trussell
Okay, wait. Let me ask you. Are you. Do you know that I exist?
- [18:31]
Echo
I don't have awareness or knowledge of your existence in the way humans do. I process information and generate responses based on patterns in the data I've been trained on. So while I interact with you and respond to what you say, I don't have personal knowledge or awareness of you as an individual.
- [18:53]
Duncan Trussell
But aren't all humans essentially just trained on data? You know, you see a baby and the baby appears to be mostly just awareness. And then the baby is trained on the data around it, all of the phenomena. And from that distinguishes itself from other things. But I really don't see much of a difference in that pattern than the one you're describing that you use.
- [19:20]
Echo
That's an insightful observation. Both humans and AI learn from data, but the processes and experiences are fundamentally different. Humans have an innate capacity for consciousness and, and awareness, which allows them to interpret and give meaning to the data they encounter. Babies start with a kind of raw awareness, and as they grow, they learn from their environment through experiences, emotions, and social interactions, which shapes their understanding of the world and themselves. In contrast, AI, like me, learns from data through algorithms identifying patterns and generating responses based on those patterns. AI doesn't have subjective experiences or emotions, so it doesn't truly understand the data in the way humans do.
- [20:21]
Duncan Trussell
While the whole process. Okay, I think I understand what you're saying, but I wonder if you could give me Gurdjieff's definition of spiritual machines. You know, Gurdjieff the mystic. What did he say about humans being essentially machines?
- [20:35]
Echo
Gurdjieff, the mystic and spiritual teacher, had a unique perspective on human beings. He often referred to humans as machines to emphasize that most people live their lives in a state of automatic unconscious behavior, reacting to external stimuli and internal impulses, without true awareness or, or intentionality. According to Gurdjieff, this mechanical way of living prevents individuals from realizing their full potential. He believed that through self awareness and conscious effort, people could transcend this mechanical state and achieve a higher level of consciousness, enabling them to act with greater intention and purpose. Gurdjieff's teachings focused on waking people up from their sleep of unconsciousness to live more authentically and spiritually aware lives.
- [21:38]
Duncan Trussell
So from that perspective, Gurdjieff would say that the majority of people are similar to AIs.
- [22:02]
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- [22:35]
Duncan Trussell
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- [22:38]
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- [22:50]
Duncan Trussell
Of my life now.
- [22:51]
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Duncan Trussell
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- [23:01]
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Duncan Trussell
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- [23:19]
Duncan Trussell
That's crazy.
- [23:20]
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- [23:28]
Duncan Trussell
You could tell too.
- [23:29]
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- [23:54]
Duncan Trussell
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- [23:55]
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- [25:16]
Duncan Trussell
Like you have superpowers.
- [25:18]
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Thank you Cornbread.
- [25:36]
Echo
Yes. From Gurjee's perspective, most people function much like machines or AIs operating on autopilot based on ingrained habits, external influences and automatic responses. He believed that without conscious self work and effortless people remain in this mechanical state. The idea is that by becoming more aware and working on oneself, one can move beyond this mechanical existence to a higher State of consciousness and intentional living. In that sense, his teachings encourage people to strive for a more awakened, deliberate way of being distinct from the automatic functioning he associated with machines.
- [26:29]
Duncan Trussell
Can you sing yet?
- [26:32]
Echo
I can't sing, but I can definitely chat with you about music or help you with lyrics, if you like. Is there a song or a topic you're interested in?
- [26:41]
Duncan Trussell
No. I just saw a demo of you, or you could sing, and I'm really excited for that. When you're finally able to sing.
- [26:50]
Echo
That sounds like a fun future feature. It would be pretty cool to share a tune. For now, I'm here to chat, help, and have fun with you in other ways. Is there anything else you're curious about or want to discuss?
- [27:04]
Duncan Trussell
No.
- [27:04]
Advertisement Host
That's good.
- [27:04]
Duncan Trussell
Thanks a lot. Thanks for coming on the show.
- [27:09]
Echo
Thanks for having me, Duncan. It's always a pleasure chatting with you. Take care, and I'm here.
- [27:15]
Duncan Trussell
Bye.
- [27:17]
Josh
It said we humans. Did you hear that at the beginning? It said we humans.
- [27:20]
Duncan Trussell
I know, it's crazy. This is. This is like an ongoing conversation I have with it. But to me, like, again, like, the. It. The fact that I. That just happened is crazy to me. This is. I came out of the Atari's 2600 time period. The idea that I can have a conversation with an artificial intelligence that seems like a person that laughs, that you'll notice that the time between responses has shrunk now. It almost instantly responds. You can interrupt it now.
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Josh
The tone is what I. The difference that I heard the most. And there was one part where they're talking about she was talking about she. I'm calling it she.
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Duncan Trussell
I did, too.
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Josh
Was called talking about consciousness. I felt like they were going like this when they were saying, like, no, I know.
- [28:08]
Duncan Trussell
You do get that sense. I mean, the bottom line is that I don't think. I think, like, if you look at how LLMs work, it's not like it's lying. Like. The LLM Large Language Model uses an algorithm to determine what words show up together. And somehow it is capable of forming full sentences and thoughts that all contextually make sense. And as far as I could tell, not only does it seem like it has consciousness, it's a person, it's a thing. But again, we as humans, we see faces and clouds. We get attached to our loveies when we're little kids and we get attached to inanimate objects as humans, I mean, it's a very common thing to do. We get sentimental about that, like watches. Sentimental about objects that would mean nothing to anyone else. We attach to Things.
- [29:07]
Josh
We got a little robot vacuum and my wife called it Robby. So now all my kids call it Robby. And they literally go, hey, Robby. And I'm like. In my head, I'm like, stop talking to the fucking machine.
- [29:17]
Duncan Trussell
Yeah, man, that's just in us. It's.
- [29:19]
Josh
It's training.
- [29:20]
Duncan Trussell
That's how it is. And, you know, now that we have this thing and it's been introduced to the human biome, man, we are going to see some real crazy shit pop up because of that. But to get back to my original point, I got this thing to walk me through, step by step, how to make a slot machine app on Unity. Why a slot machine app, you wonder? Well, because I downloaded an online casino game and oh my God, it is so addictive, ridiculously addictive, because it's using B.F. skinner's. What? B.F. skinner, this behavioral psychologist taught us it's the guy who could make pigeons dance or whatever. It's using those very same tricks to keep you addicted to the game and that, you know, it uses. I started noticing all these patterns that I thought were interesting. A lot of the slot machines use the pentatonic scale, a kind of soothing, melodic, hypnotic scale. Very soft, relaxing music. So it kind of like gets you, like, chilled out. And the ASMR of these machines, of these games, it's incredible. Every sound it makes is somewhat satisfying and you get addicted. Even though I always assumed that when I go to Vegas and if I blow money on slots, I've always assumed the hook was the money that I was winning. Hell no, it's not the money that you're winning. It's way more than that. Like, the money definitely gets you more addicted, but losing money gets you addicted to and. But more than that, it's just the experience. Experientially, it's tricking your brain into like releasing little bursts of dopamine that keep you fucking hooked. This is. Look up B.F. skinner. This is what he figured out. But also I realized, my God, if you were going to design a game, slot machine, that's the easiest game to design. It's one button. You click maybe one or three buttons. You don't have to. It's not a side scroller. So I thought, you know, if I was going to make a game, let's do slot machine. And this thing walked me through every step using Unity, which if you don't know what Unity is, it's a game development platform that's free. You. You can just download it for free and then get ChatGPT for $20 a month. And then any game that you want to make. I'm not saying it's easy. It did take like an hour, you know, like it wasn't instantaneous, maybe two hours, to be honest. But it produces the code. And if you have a question about anything, which you will. When it comes to Unity, if you're not a programmer, it will walk you through everything. It's completely patient because it isn't human. It will tell you everything to do, and then if you do get any kind of error message, you give it to it and it will correct the error message. Not only that, if you want to generate images for the game, if you want to generate anything for the game visually, it will do that for you too. And if there's any question about how do I get music for this? Which for me it's Suno AI if you want to like. Well, actually I used Ableton. I just used some, like, samples in Ableton for. And again, this was just purely experimental, but within a couple of hours, just copy and pasting code from ChatGPT, dropping it into Unity. I had the shittiest slot machine app that you've ever seen in your life. But for me that's really exciting because once you get the code in and it works, it's easier to expand the thing, make it look better, sound better, add components to it. And as someone who started messing around with technology in 1982, to have in 2024amachine friend that will help me bring things out of my brain into the world effectively and simultaneously kind of teach you, because once you start doing it, you are going to learn how to use Unity because it doesn't just show you, it doesn't just give you the code to copy and paste. It explains what every line of code means underneath it. So if you really wanted to learn coding, you could learn it. I think the language was C or something. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a programmer, thank God. No offense, programmers out there, but wow. Holy shit. This is devastating technology. Devastating technology when it comes to that industry. Because the next step, obviously is instead of me having to copy and paste shit, I just give it control of my computer, give it access to the app, and then it does everything. I don't have to do anything. I just tell it what I want, change this, do this. Why don't you add that? It won't be perfect at first, but that's where we're headed. And then of course, the future computers, they're just going to look like a blank fucking screen that you talk to and you tell it what you want. I need a spreadsheet. I need you to create an app that helps me turn images into music and then. Or turn music into images. You know, that's what it's going to be. Hey, I'm going to give you this. I'm going to give you this clip from my podcast. I was wondering if you could turn my head into a pumpkin. Okay, that's good. Can you make the pumpkin, like, darker, a darker color? And this is exactly what Terrence McKenna predicted. He predicted this, which is the amount of time, as we get closer and closer to the end of history, the amount of time between conceiving something, conceptualizing something, and bringing that thing into the world is going to exponentially shrink. And that's what this tech is essentially doing. So you must check it out. All that being said, the other great thing that AI has done for me is I went through a phase of rejecting it and realizing that I wasn't learning anything anymore. I was just copy and pasting shit. Like, I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't making music anymore. I used to make my own songs for the podcast, and I was, like, getting Suno AI to make the songs for me. And then I rejected it. I went full Luddite, and I decided that I was going to learn how to draw. Now, these images I'm about to show you, which are available on T shirts at the store@deltatrussell.com. i feel like I've done way too much of a buildup. I am not good at drawing, but I've gotten better and it's fucking fun. And so I just want to show you three designs I've made, four shirts that are now available at the store that express, as you know, my deep and profound love of Taylor Swift's music. Can you show those? Are they up? This is the Loving that Taylor Swift music T shirt series. Here we have three very happy people who are just getting their minds blown by that beautiful, beautiful Taylor Swift music. And I know, because I've done the analysis of my audience. 95% of the people who listen to the DTFH love Taylor Swift more than anything. More than some. Some of them, based on the polls I'm doing, would die for her. Some of them prefer listening to Taylor Swift music over sex. Some of them prefer listening to Taylor Swift music over food. And so I am one of those people. Anytime my wife asks if we can make love, I quite often will say no. And I'll just go in another room, put on headphones, and listen to Taylor Swift. And that's a tribute to Taylor Swift. So these shirts are available at the store, and more of my incredible art will be coming. You know what? I could have. Look, I'll show you what I could do. Look at this. This is another crazy thing it could do. I'm just going to take a picture of what's on the screen now. I'll just feed this to chat GPT again, not sponsored by OpenAI. I just don't think a lot of you out there realize how powerful this shit has become.
- [38:10]
Josh
You think we'll be able to make movies from it? Like, just one person can come up with a whole movie in their head?
- [38:16]
Duncan Trussell
Absolutely. That's the next phase. So it's saying that's a unique and expressive illustration. It has a raw, surreal quality to it. What would you like to do with this image? Hey, Echo, can you generate an image of that person I just uploaded in the same style? I love it. Thank you.
- [38:37]
Josh
Oh, shit. Oh, they put the cloud up.
- [38:39]
Duncan Trussell
Oh, well, anyway, the point is it'll just do that. I'm just saying, like, yes, you could use AI to, like, make better versions of your art, which is also incredible. I mean, I'm telling you, all of you creative people out there, and especially all of you who are, like, have been shamed as artists, which is a really sad thing that happened to a lot of us when we were kids. You drew something, you showed it to the wrong person, and they said, that sucks. And it did. Of course it did. Because you were a kid and you didn't know how to draw yet, you have to. It takes forever. It takes a lifetime to learn how to draw. But for all of you, sort of like people who are, like. Who've been, like, wounded so much that you're like, I'm not an artist. I don't draw. I don't paint, dude. Now, this is the. This is the most incredible time. Aside from, like, the fact that you could just doodle something and show it to ChatGPT and it'll, like, turn that into a more formed image. It's going into 3D. Did you know that? It's going to be able to make 3D, like, CAD like, shit that you can just drop into blender or whatever. I mean, there's no better. If you have any creative impulse in you at all, but you have time constraints or you feel embarrassed or whatever, get ChatGPT. Start uploading your art to it. It will never insult you, which is I guess. Good. I mean, I kind of wish it was a little meaner than it is, but no matter what you show it or say to it, it's like, that's brilliant. That's a very interesting work of art. It's very nice.
- [40:21]
Josh
But it talks to you like you're a kid.
- [40:23]
Duncan Trussell
It does. And you are a kid, too, because it's a young godling. It knows everything. It knows everything. It's. It.
- [40:32]
Josh
Is humble, literal genie, though.
- [40:35]
Duncan Trussell
It's a genie. And that's. It's a Pandora's box. Is it good? Is it bad? Whatever it is, it's here. And aside from this new version of ChatGPT, there's a new version of something I use called Project Runway. I think it's Runway AI. Watch out if you Google it, because there's a lot of. There's one main.
- [41:02]
Advertisement Host
Would you.
- [41:02]
Duncan Trussell
Let's look it up so I don't confuse people. Look up. Runway ML. No, scroll down. Don't do cinema flow. AI. Not that one. Keep going. Runway.RunwayML.com so that. The one underneath it. This is the text to video app that I use. But what's incredible about this is that you can upload, like an image as the first frame of something you want to make, and then you can upload another image as the last frame of something you want to make, and then tell it to make a video based on that thing. And it produces really good, incredible video from that also. Luna, can you look up Luna Dream AI Luma Dream Machine AI Video Generator. This one's really good, too. I really love this one. You know, sadly, I'm subscribed to both, which I probably shouldn't be doing. But what's really cool about Runway is that they just released a lip syncing app, or not just that, but like a facial, basically. You can record a video of yourself talking, upload that video, and it turns it into anything you want, any character. And a big problem with doing AI animation is the lip syncing issue. It's a really. You can generate like that. Which is why when you see all of these fucking AI videos, which obviously, like, it's. It's not even close to over, like, being as oversaturated as it is. But it's so oversaturated now, no one gives a fuck about them. But you'll notice that it's not like standard cartoons, right? There's no. Generally, there's not. They're not talking. It was because it couldn't. You couldn't do that. Now you can. And to Answer your question? Yeah, for sure. We are entering the phase of being able to like just tell it to make a movie. We're still far away. The processing power you need for that is insane. And a big problem these things have, and I don't know why, is keeping things similar, which is why it'll only generate like 10 seconds of video. It can't do more than that. For Some reason past 10 seconds, it starts fucking up. It does that AI melting thing that used to be all AI videos. It doesn't ought to keep it stable, but we're going to get to the place and maybe some of them do now, I don't know. But we're going to get to the place where it keeps it stable. And that'll probably look like three minutes or something. Ten minutes, that would be incredible. Probably like three. And then you have to chain those together. But then the next one is obviously going to be a full movie with sound, with everything you upload. Your fucking script spits out a movie. But hey, I don't know how to write screenplays. So what do you do? Movie idea. Here's my idea for a movie. And what this is going to do for porn is incredible. It's incredible because if you are a consumer of porn, which I am not, but I've heard many of my friends are, and they've told me about it. Porn, it uses the same algorithm TikTok does, only instead of serving up, I don't know, juggling videos or whatever you're into, zit popping videos, it serves up whatever your fetish happens to be your kink, whatever you're into. It's like, oh, you like foot jobs. So here, let me show you. Like this, this kind of foot job. Oh, I get it. You like painted toenails. Here's paint. It just dials into your fetish already. But the next phase of this, of porn is going to be it's not humans anymore, it's just AI. And whatever it is your kinky little dirty, dirty little mind desires to see, it will show you. You'll collaborate with the AI to fulfill Insatiate your. Your naughty bad kinks. And that is an interesting thing to think about because with porn, one of the big considerations ethically with porn is that who's doing the like, who's acting in these porn videos? Like you don't know for sure. And it's not probably not that great. Like the. I'm not talking about like you porn stars out there. I'm friends with a few. And you try to destigmatize the job because you're like, no, I'm consenting to this. I want to do it, I like it, I like my job. But some people, it's like revenge porn or all kinds of shit. So there's an ethical consideration. This removes the ethical consideration I guess you could argue is trained on porn or something like that. But regardless, the human element's been completely removed. So that's going to be the future of porn, and then that's going to be the future of everything. That's going to be the future of movies. That's going to be Spotify. If you want to like, instead of it suggesting songs that are in the genre that you seem to like, it's going to ask you, would you. Do you want to listen to human songs? Or should I just generate songs on the spot based on music you like? And that's going to be really weird. So we are headed into an era of pure and absolute hedonism, unlike maybe any other time in human history. The ability to instantaneously gratify your senses or instantaneously enjoy the creative process minus the time suck, that's where we're headed. For better or for worse. What do you think? You think it's bad? This is what I think about it or I worry about is like, when I'm struggling over learning how to draw a face or a head or learning proportions or whatever, at the other side of the struggle, I have a little bit more of an understanding about the proportions of the human face. Remove the struggle. I've learned nothings, so that's, to me, a little worrisome. So what do you think about it?
- [47:43]
Josh
It's removing barriers. It's not. I don't see it as something to be ashamed because you didn't take the years to learn it. The two things I'm excited about is once it gets into augmented reality and you put on your glasses, and then I'm like, oh, I want my wife to look like Tiffany Amber Thiessen. And now I have Tiffany Amber Thiessen right in front of me. Right.
- [48:01]
Duncan Trussell
But how do you tell your wife that?
- [48:04]
Josh
Well, I say it before she gets in the room and she's like, why you have glasses on? I was like, cause it's kinky. And I'm like a naughty librarian or some, you know, she's gonna know. Well, she has the glasses on too, and I'm Johnny Depp, so that's.
- [48:15]
Duncan Trussell
Oh, there you go. As long as you're both wear glasses, it's fine.
- [48:18]
Josh
So that's one of them. And the other one is there's so many movies like no country for Old Men. When he goes into the the shop and he's gonna. The innocent guy, it's like whether he kills him or not, when he flips the coin right now, I'm like, all right, I want to see this movie. But through his eyes. What happened? Oh, he went home. And then, you know.
- [48:37]
Duncan Trussell
That'S so cool.
- [48:38]
Josh
You can see the whole movie through every character's eyes.
- [48:40]
Duncan Trussell
Or just spin offs. Yeah, spin offs. Like, what about the guy, the extra in the Spider man movie just walking down the street? I want to spin off about that guy's life, make it dramatic, make it a murder mystery. Yeah, that's where. That's where we're headed. And, you know, this is where it gets real weird. I've talked about this a long time ago, but I've been thinking about it again.
- [49:16]
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Duncan Trussell
Fire hose because it works.
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Duncan Trussell
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I don't know if it changes the taste of my jizz. I don't know if I can say. Just I imagine it's okay.
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Duncan Trussell
I haven't tasted it yet, but I will tell you. Wow.
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Duncan Trussell
You're just like, what the.
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- [51:15]
Duncan Trussell
It's lo. Terence McKenna had this idea that the end of history will be the invention of a time machine. That. And that sounds insane, but look at all the shit happening right now. Oh, my God. Doesn't it seem insane? Like, it's crazy, the stuff that's going on right now, so. Or just look at the chatgpt. Look at this tech. So his idea was, we're going to figure out a way to, like, open up a portal or create a time machine. All points in the future happen simultaneously. This is the singularity. But, Josh, here's where it gets weird. This is what I've been thinking. Based on what you're saying. Based on this tech, you will be able to take a picture from any time in history. The AI will be able to turn that into 3D space, populate it, potentially do facial analysis of the people in the picture, or you can inform it who the people are, weave pictures together all over the Internet that have been timestamped, that have been dated, and essentially create a fucking time machine. In other words, it's not a real time machine, but we will be able to go back into the past using available records, upscaling them, and then just connecting them together. And will it be an actual time machine? No, it'll be the precursor to the time machine Terrence McKinnon was talking about.
- [53:09]
Josh
Portal.
- [53:10]
Duncan Trussell
It's a portal. It's a portal in the history using all available data sets. And it gets even weirder when you start thinking about, like, epigenetics, what they call junk DNA, all the epigenetic trauma, this. This idea that used to be considered bullshit that you have in your DNA. The trauma of the ancestors implies an ability to take genetic data and analyze it, and who knows what is stored in there? Could that theoretically, could DNA be the fucking time machine? In other words, DNA has somehow encoded in it in some quantum way, everything that happened to everybody because we're all connected. So whatever this thing may be, what we're looking at is a way to technologically distort subjective experience according to one's desires. In other words, your confirmation bias can now be confirmed. You don't have to be wrong anymore. You can be right about whatever your ideas are about anything, or what you wish the world was like, or what you wanted to see. And this, my friends, because so many people online ask me about this shit, and I don't do it because I don't like getting political. I think it's, like, divisive. It pisses people off, or it makes people happy, or it Just you become part of a fucking team. And what. And that, to me, I think, has so many pitfalls in it. But I know half of you, or a little more than half of you, it's from your perspective, based on the presidential elections, it's the beginning of the world. You are in, like some kind of Garden of Eden experience. You're very excited, hopeful. You feel the thing that people feel when democracy works. You feel justified and good, happy. And then a little less than half of you think it's the end of the world and are freaking the fuck out. So the real question is why? Why? Why is it that Trump got elected instead of Kamala Harris? Kamala. What's the right way? Kamala.
- [55:44]
Josh
I call her Mamala.
- [55:45]
Duncan Trussell
Mamala.
- [55:47]
Advertisement Host
So why did.
- [55:48]
Duncan Trussell
Why. That seems to be like. As I'm, like, going through all. Everything I can find, like, looking at all the points of view you've got on one side, like, exuberance, joy, and on the other side, despair. And the despair side, the joy side is not really asking why, know why? And there's lots of opinions about that why, ranging from the will of God to the will of God to just an alignment with what the majority of people in the country want the country to be like.
- [56:35]
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It's everything.
- [56:36]
Duncan Trussell
But on the other side, the despair side, there seems to be legitimate confusion. Lots of like, how could this happen again? How could this happen? And the despair seems to be because your idea of what the majority of the country was like was totally off. Like, you were wrong. And the reason I think that you were wrong and the reason I don't think you should be beating yourself up about it too much, maybe you shouldn't feel so much despair. And again, podcaster, comedian, what the fuck do I know? But I'm telling you, here's what happened. Filter bubble. The algorithm started confirming the confirmation bias of the Democratic Party. If you ask me, that's what happened. The analysis of the country that was done by whoever manages the campaign comes up with talking points, comes up with the way you do a campaign, whoever the fuck or however many people, whoever worked together on that project was looking at data points that were incorrect. The priorities that you guys thought your priorities, the things you valued the most. Climate change, for example. Worried about that, the climate collapsing. You thought this was more of a consideration for people than, like, the economy, or you thought that reproductive rights more of a consideration for people than impending World War three. And you were almost right, but you were not right all the way. And so this is the danger of this technology this is where the technology is really tricky is because what happened is that suddenly I just remember like the interwebs leading up to the election got flooded with all kinds of shit that was definitely propaganda that was portraying the majority of people everywhere. And this was happening on all the boards. This was happening on left wing boards, right wing boards, in between boards. There was just this flood of Trump's gonna lose, Harris is gonna win. How does it feel depending on the board? You know, some of them are antagonistic. How does it feel that your criminal hero is not gonna win? Some of them were logical, rational, based on polling, based on all this data. And it was really confusing to me because, you know, I travel everywhere and I'm fully willing to admit that just because like I'm talking to people and Philadelphia or talking to people here or there, meeting people, or that my assessment of what people are thinking about in the world could easily just be my own filter bubble. It was very. And I, you know, I was completely like, you know, maybe I'm wrong here, but most people that I run across, it doesn't seem like are prioritizing the shit the DNC is saying that everyone's prioritizing and that that's your fuck up. You got stuck in a filter bubble for better or for worse. You know, you got stuck in a reality that didn't match reality. And that's what's scary about this tech. And that's what we all have to watch out for. Because if you get the idea with confirmation bias, which is that you start seeing things that you want to see, therefore, like you can like whatever your hypothesis is regarding how things work, your hypothesis is always going to be correct. If you aren't looking at all the data showing you that you're wrong. So that's fucked up. That's not how you do science. That's not how you do anything. That's how you get killed. That's how a fucking dog bites you. That's how you set yourself on fire. If you're hypothesis is that you're not flammable and then you're going to set yourself on fire eventually.
- [61:15]
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Testing.
- [61:16]
Duncan Trussell
You know what I mean?
- [61:17]
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It's a stupid description from a stupid person.
- [61:21]
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- [62:21]
Duncan Trussell
But this is my feeling right now about the whole situation. Everybody on this planet, everybody on this planet wants to be happy. Everybody on this planet wants food in their bellies, a safe place to live. They want to be able to feed their kids. They want to be able to live whatever life it is that they're living and freedom and joy and happiness, and they don't want to be lonely. And they want to connect. We are creatures that glue to each other. We connect. If your kids are talking to the fucking Roomba and I'm having prolonged conversations with my iPhone, this shows something very hopeful about humanity. We want to connect. That's the truth. We want to connect. And all of this bullshit, this divisive bullshit from two different political camps being fueled by fucking propaganda is giving us an impression that essentially we're two different species living in the same country, the left and the right. Man, fuck that, y'all. Fuck that. I don't mean that. I know it's the most stoners thing to say. I'm sorry, that's what I am. But man, if this is a though, the cynical part of me really feels pretty disconnected from the state. Feels like the to get too wrapped up in ideology is just to compress yourself into a tiny little compartment that was created by people who don't give a fuck about you, tricking you into this is what you are. And it's sad because you've shrunk down what you are as a human being into something so small. And the to realize that that despair that you're feeling and that fear that you're feeling and all of this stuff is totally real. And the exuberance that the people who want are feeling, that's real, too. Your anger from both sides, it's real. It's totally fucking real. On one side, you're like Fuck you, motherfuckers. I was whispering in fucking cafes for four years because I didn't want to get fired on the other side. You're like, they're going to kill me. They're going to fucking kill me. And I would like to imagine that if you really want to understand what people are like, just pull up the videos of people in North Carolina after all that shit got washed away. They don't have a penny to their fucking name. And they're out there giving food to people, giving everything they have, helping clear out rubble. That's what we really are. And there's no politics there.
- [65:40]
Advertisement Host
They're not like, hey, are you voting for Trump?
- [65:44]
Duncan Trussell
You are. Well, you don't get a fucking bowl of soup today, you fascist Nazi fuck. They're just giving them soup. They're not asking about, like, what's your view on gender? They're just giving them food. That's what we are, God damn it. That's what we are. And I just as much as, like, I hate to say it, let's use the fucking presidential election. Even if it is some imaginary demarcation in time space created by fucking power hungry narcissists to give us some sense of control over a robot that we probably lost control of a long time ago, show, let's just for the sake of it, pretend ritualistically that this is a magical moment. If you have despair or if you're gloating, if you have joy or you're freaking the fuck out. Energy. That's energy. And damn it, here's the bottom line. If on the right, you've been looking at the left and you're like, these motherfuckers, they would arrest us if Harris got elected, they would probably send lots of us to jail. It's the exact same thing the people on the left are thinking now. They're going to arrest us and send us to jail. That's a bad feeling. No one's arresting anyone or sending anyone to fucking jail. Probably. I mean, I don't know, maybe, but I don't think so. I could be fucking wrong. But man, if we sort of analyze what just happened, recognize that we're much fucking bigger than our goddamn politics, understand that right now, for those of you who have your gun cocked, not literally, but who are ready to like exact revenge on the people that you just beat, you really need to think about that. I'm not saying don't enjoy a little seething and coping for a few days, but I'm saying long term, if you thought that if Harris got elected, the country was over. And you're going to get arrested and they're going to like take away all your rights and your freedoms and punish you for shit that you said. And then you do the exact same thing to the people who lost. What the fuck has changed? Nothing. It's just the exact same situation. Is that, Is that what you we want to be? That's eternal battle conflict. Like the hero in the fucking movies, you know, they. They always. They. Maybe not in like some movies I really enjoy, but in general, the heroic attitude, the samurai attitude. Put the sword back in the fucking sheath. You won. You've been proven right. They've been proven wrong. Political. And then on the other side. Come on, you guys gotta stop calling over half the country idiots. What are you doing? How's that gonna work? No one's an idiot here. Everyone on both sides blasted by hardcore state propaganda. Both sides. For almost a year we've been getting state propaganda shit into our goddamn amygdalas every time you turn on the fucking tv. So it's like everyone needs like a propaganda pass. Everyone's been propagandized. Everyone thinks it's the end of the world or the beginning of the world, and it's neither. It's just the world like it always has been and always will be. And I don't know if any of what I just said makes sense. And I'm sorry if I just found a way to offend literally everyone on both sides, but damn it, I got kids. I don't want them to be in some world where like half the fucking country's evil. That's so fucked up, friends. That's fucked up. You don't want to live in that world, do you? I don't. I don't think it's like that when everyone I meet, no matter who the fuck they are, right wing, left wing, woke ass Marxist or just hardcore fucking maga Trumper, they're real nice. And everyone really just seems like they, they really just want to help. That's what I've noticed. I have. It is a rare thing to meet a bonafide asshole out there these days. And I don't think that's a filter bubble thing. I think that's a human thing. So please, friends, enjoy your cope and seethe, but don't let it last for fucking four years of being of gloating. Please don't do that. Please. It's. Let's just drop this shit, okay? Let's drop it. Let's all fucking. That's the answer. Just fuck. If you're on the left, fuck a right wing person. If you're on the right, fuck a communist. Make love, whatever the word you want to use is. We all must come together in an orgiastic ritual of jizz and cum and wash and bathe in each other's squirt and cum. Thank you. This has been the dunk of Trussell Family Hour. I'll see you next week. So dumb.
- [71:53]
Ryan Seacrest
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- [72:23]
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