679: Daniele Bolelli

Summary

Podcast Summary: Duncan Trussell Family Hour Episode 679: Daniele Bolelli

Introduction and Opening Remarks

In the opening of Episode 679, host Duncan Trussell extends heartfelt condolences to those affected by a recent meteor impact in New York, highlighting the unpredictability of such events. He introduces the guest, Daniele Bolelli, renowned for his popular podcast History on Fire and his company, Purist Mushrooms. Duncan humorously mentions his recent hangover from attending South by Southwest (SXSW), setting a casual and intimate tone for the conversation.

Guest Background: Daniele Bolelli

Daniele shares updates about his life, mentioning his relocation to Ojai, a serene town near Los Angeles, where he continues to teach college courses online and work on various projects. He discusses his ongoing work on the History on Fire podcast and his ventures into writing historical fiction, including a novel about the life of the Italian painter Caravaggio.

Exploring the 'Tortured Artist' Archetype

A significant portion of the discussion delves into the archetype of the "tortured artist." Daniele expresses his intent to challenge the traditional narrative that links high sensitivity and creativity with inevitable suffering and madness.

Daniele Bolelli (08:22): "I want a story that counters the message that sensitivity is just something that you are cursed with and is just sure you can console yourself with the fact that you created something beautiful by your doomed to a shitty life."

Duncan echoes these sentiments, cautioning against romanticizing the idea of suffering as a prerequisite for artistic genius. They discuss the dangers of this archetype, noting how it can mislead individuals into prioritizing intensity over skill development.

Coping with Emotions and Sensitivity

The conversation shifts to strategies for managing intense emotions without succumbing to despair. Daniele emphasizes the importance of acknowledging pain without letting it define one's identity.

Daniele Bolelli (12:29): "How do you take a strong sensitivity, a strong ability to feel a lot and not make it be something that is inevitably going to lead to depression and sadness and pain and all of that?"

Duncan discusses common self-help approaches that advocate facing pain head-on, highlighting the paradox that addressing emotions can reduce the reactive behaviors often labeled as "crazy."

Duncan Trussell (14:05): "And then you do it and you realize, oh, it sucks, but it's certainly not as bad as I thought it would be."

Impact of Social Media on Communication and Emotions

A critical part of the episode examines how online communication, especially through social media, exacerbates emotional turmoil and miscommunication. They explore how algorithms favor content that generates outrage, feeding into a cycle of anger and distress.

Daniele Bolelli (58:26): "We are feeding the algorithm that way. Pain, our sacrifice. Because that's what it does, right? It feeds on human suffering because that's what gets attention."

Duncan further elaborates on the concept of "rage farming," where content creators intentionally provoke anger to gain engagement and financial rewards.

Duncan Trussell (64:07): "And the algorithm feeds on human suffering because that's what gets attention."

Discussion on UAPs and Government Conspiracies

The dialogue transitions to Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAPs), spurred by Duncan's recent experience attending an SXSW screening of the documentary Age of Disclosure. They discuss the documentary's claims about government involvement in tracking and potentially reverse-engineering alien technology, raising concerns about national security and global implications.

Duncan Trussell (84:12): "The genius of this thing, though I wouldn't say there's a lot of new data was that it's so many high-ranking government officials, bipartisan from... they're like, let's figure out what the fuck this is."

Daniele adds his skepticism, questioning the motives behind government secrecy and the potential dangers of such undisclosed technologies.

Medicinal Mushrooms and Purist Mushrooms

Returning to more personal topics, Daniele introduces his venture into the medicinal mushroom industry through his company, Purist Mushrooms. He highlights the benefits of mushrooms like Cordyceps and Chaga, which enhance stamina and overall well-being without the hallucinogenic effects commonly associated with psychedelics.

Daniele Bolelli (98:32): "We started this company called Purist Mushrooms. Check it out."

Duncan expresses interest in trying the products, appreciating their practical benefits over recreational use.

Concluding Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the episode nears its end, Duncan and Daniele engage in light-hearted banter, sharing humorous anecdotes about martial arts mishaps and the challenges of maintaining authentic communication both online and offline. They emphasize the importance of genuine interactions and the pitfalls of superficial online personas.

Daniele Bolelli (80:56): "It's a setup to lower their brains."

Duncan Trussell (81:47): "Because you have to adapt it so that you can speak a common language so that like the person, how will this person receive it?"

Duncan wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to explore Purist Mushrooms and History on Fire, promoting authentic connections both through the podcast and in real life.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

1. Daniele Bolelli (08:22):

   "I want a story that counters the message that sensitivity is just something that you are cursed with and is just sure you can console yourself with the fact that you created something beautiful by your doomed to a shitty life."

2. Daniele Bolelli (12:29):

   "How do you take a strong sensitivity, a strong ability to feel a lot and not make it be something that is inevitably going to lead to depression and sadness and pain and all of that?"

3. Duncan Trussell (14:05):

   "And then you do it and you realize, oh, it sucks, but it's certainly not as bad as I thought it would be."

4. Daniele Bolelli (58:26):

   "We are feeding the algorithm that way. Pain, our sacrifice. Because that's what it does, right? It feeds on human suffering because that's what gets attention."

5. Duncan Trussell (64:07):

   "And the algorithm feeds on human suffering because that's what gets attention."

6. Duncan Trussell (84:12):

   "The genius of this thing, though I wouldn't say there's a lot of new data was that it's so many high-ranking government officials, bipartisan from... they're like, let's figure out what the fuck this is."

7. Daniele Bolelli (98:32):

   "We started this company called Purist Mushrooms. Check it out."

8. Daniele Bolelli (80:56):

   "It's a setup to lower their brains."

9. Duncan Trussell (81:47):

   "Because you have to adapt it so that you can speak a common language so that like the person, how will this person receive it?"

---

Conclusion

Episode 679 of the Duncan Trussell Family Hour offers an engaging exploration of deep personal and societal issues, ranging from the myths surrounding the tortured artist to the complexities of emotional health in the digital age. Daniele Bolelli provides insightful perspectives on maintaining emotional balance, critiquing the detrimental effects of social media, and introducing innovative ventures like Purist Mushrooms. The episode seamlessly blends profound discussions with humorous exchanges, providing listeners with both intellectual stimulation and entertainment.

Transcript

[Duncan Trussell]

Greetings to you my loves. You're listening to the Duncan Trestle Family hour podcast or watching it if you're on YouTube. Obviously. I want to send out my love and my prayers to those of you who have been affected by the meteor impact in New York. My God, I can't believe that fucking happened. It's terrifying. And yeah, I'm not going to say anything else other than to those of you who are out there, I'm wishing you the best and I'm so sorry. I don't think anyone thought that could actually happen happen to the dinosaurs, but it happens all the time. Other planets are pockmarked with meteor impact scars. I mean, honestly, you would kind of think like maybe the place you want to live on a planet isn't on the part facing the abyss where mountains fall out of it from time to time. I'm not victim blaming you or anything, but my heart, my heart, my heart won heart goes out to those good citizens of New York. And yeah, if you look down in the comments, there's going to be links to where you can donate money to victims of the meteor impact. I'm very sorry that that happened. Today's guest is one of the most requested guests on the dtfh. Unfortunately, I hadn't had him on in a while because he lives on the other side of of the country. You probably know him from his amazing podcast History on Fire. And because he was kind enough to be on this show, I must plug his amazing company Purist Mushrooms, where you can find the finest organic mushroom extracts. He gave me some of these and it's incredible. So again, this is like health. Not that psilocybin isn't healthy, but this is like workout mushrooms. Not seed Jesus mushrooms. Regardless, go to puristmushrooms.com or history on Fire if you love Danieli Bilelli. And now everybody welcome Danieli Bileli. Funny thing is you can make anything sound serious when you do. I think she is. Mr. Bellelli, welcome back. It's been too long, my friend. Let me apologize in advance, I am slightly hungover. I haven't been hungover in a while. South by Southwest got me last night.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Fair, fair.

[Duncan Trussell]

How are you, my friend?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Good. All good. I've. I enjoy my life right now.

[Duncan Trussell]

You what?

[Daniele Bolelli]

I seriously enjoy my life.

[Duncan Trussell]

What the fuck? You're not supposed to enjoy your life right now. Did you know that? It's unfashionable.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I'm sorry. Life sucks.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's miserable.

[Daniele Bolelli]

By the way, I have no audio in. Perfect.

[Duncan Trussell]

So catch me up man, catch us all up to speed. It's been too long. What's going on in my life?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Uh, let's see. So I've been living outside of Los Angeles for a while now, since actually the beginning of the pandemic. Living in Ojai.

[Duncan Trussell]

I knew that you made the Ojai transition. A lot of people did.

[Daniele Bolelli]

That tiny town.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Less than 10,000 people.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I love it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, I heard.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Not anything.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Really.

[Duncan Trussell]

Just the rattles of ayahuasca shamans in the woods. Pretty much it far away. And yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Now. So it's a mellow place. I get to. I still teach. I still teach college, but mostly online. So I get to stay home most of the. With great feats. I think I'm a perfect candidate for house arrest. I found out during COVID It's like, you make me stay at home, I'm like, oh, oh, no, I can't leave.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, I never thought of that. Jesus. Anytime anyone invites you, I go, dude, I would love to go to your birthday party, but I'm under house arrest.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I think. I think I'm going to work something out.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, my God.

[Daniele Bolelli]

To make it official.

[Duncan Trussell]

Fake ankle bracelets or something.

[Daniele Bolelli]

That's perfect.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's incredible.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's. It's perfect.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you've become a recluse.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes, and I love it. I, you know, still doing History on Fire podcast. Drunken Taoist. I'm writing a bunch that I'm having a blood. That's probably the thing I'm having the most.

[Duncan Trussell]

Can you talk about what you're writing about?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, sure. I did. I finish. I mean, talk right now to have it published. I finish. A historical fiction about the life of Caravaggio the crazy.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Italian page.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. Congratulations.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I did that one. I had a blast. And there's more stuff that I want to do. I was talking. Maybe I should have mentioned the details because it's not my business, but like a director was pretty big in that space. Was talking about maybe doing an adaptation on a Native American story that we are both discussing his native himself. And we're talking about that. So I've been. I've been enjoying the idea of creating. Taking historical events.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Making and, you know, you fictionalize them. Is not like when I do History on Fire is all factual and super fact checked and stuff. When you go into the fiction space, to me is fun because you're creating archetypes, you're creating mythology, you're creating.

[Duncan Trussell]

But I mean, isn't his. I mean, wouldn't you say Any history is not intentionally fictional. Sure, but you got to fill in the blanks 100%.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And I think that's the nature of history to begin with. But of course, when you're selling it as history, you are going to be as honest as humanly possible about look.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

We know A, we know B. Yeah. In between AMB Is my speculation, and I'm guessing based. It's an educated opinion of what I think may have gone down between A and B. Gotcha. And that's fine. And when you do fiction, of course, you don't have to do that fact check and do all the little things and you can just go off and just have fun with the stories and.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, I'm reading a book. God, I wish I could remember anything these days. But the book is. It's history. It's not fiction. But it's about the family the Robinson Crusoe is based on. Are you familiar with that?

[Daniele Bolelli]

I mean, I read the Robinson Crusoe as a kid. That's about the extent of my familiarity with the story.

[Duncan Trussell]

Basically a family. It's really interesting. It's a family. They're out on a boat. They have a piano on the boat, which is kind of eerie to think about. They're out on this boat, they have a piano just playing piano out in the ocean. But what they are doing is hunting sharks.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because apparently that was a big thing. And it's like right around. It's like somewhere like off the coast of Hawaii, they're hunting sharks. And the crew that they have, there's a guy in the crew who was a fucking monster. And basically they would just go to islands and just, you know, gather, steal people. The human trafficker slavers. That's like. That's become like the first mate is this fucked up dude. They're hunting sharks in an area that is. No, that is considered the superstitions believe it's cursed on a boat that's considered cursed. And of course the boat gets wrecked and they wash up on this goddamn island. And it's just interesting to me. Not just because it's exciting, but, you know, there's a lot of filling in the blanks, of course. And you know, there's no fucking way you could say that his hair blew in the wind.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, of course not.

[Duncan Trussell]

But historical fiction, you take even more liberties with it. Whatever you want.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I mean, that's kind of what, like when I went like, for example, I did some podcast on Caravaggio, they were straight up history. But then when I write the story, I'M I'm building like for me, Caravaggio. One of the things that interesting about him is that is the prototype of the course, the artist, you know, the suffering artist. Genius and madness and all of that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Which is, of course is kind of a depressing archetype.

[Duncan Trussell]

Sure.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Is essentially telling you that sensitivity is a course. That is something that being super sensitive and creative is something that inevitably comes with monstrous amount of pain.

[Duncan Trussell]

Sure.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's a doom and gloom view. And so what I did is like, I took, I don't know, 50, 60% of his real story, added a whole bunch. And then I'm going to give it a completely different arc in terms of how it comes out of the other end. Because I want a story that kind of counters that message. That counters the message that sensitivity is just something that you are cursed with and is just sure you can console yourself with the fact that you created something beautiful by your. Doomed to a shitty life. You know, I. That's a horrible message. And so I took the same character, but gave him a very different twist.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, that's, that's a, that's a cool take on it. I mean, I, I really. I think that tortured artist archetype is somewhat dangerous because I think a lot of people would love to be, I don't know, Dolly or something like that, you know, Andy Warhol or something. God, that must have been cool. But, and so. Or Elliot Smith maybe. I don't know. Like. But you. You sort of. Or Jimi Hendrix.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you look at the life of these people, their deaths, and it paints up Johnny Cash. It paints a picture of a horrific life. Or in. In that life, there's like. For Johnny Cash, I mean, we all know the story. He was a speed freak. He was barbiturates in speed. Apparently climbed down into a coal mine. You know that story. Apparently he was so depressed that he went into a coma. Down and down, down in the coma. And he was just going to go as far down into the darkness.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Just.

[Duncan Trussell]

And just lay down and die.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

That is the most insane form of. Because it's on YouTube. Unaliving yourself that I've ever fudgeing heard. But who would want to be Johnny Cash? And so you know what's easy to emulate? Taking speed and being depressed. Of course now anyone can do that. Doesn't take much practice to take speed or Xanax. But to become Johnny Cash, you also have to be an amazing musician. And so people think, okay, if I sort of emulate the insanity, maybe the other genius will come, I won't have to practice. If I'm crazy enough, I want to practice. And that's why I think it's a dangerous archetype in that it can fool you into. It can mix up your priorities when it comes to getting good at anything.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And I think, you know, the reality is there is. So what's the element of truth there? There is an element that if you are super sensitive, you are more likely to be really creative. You are more likely to have some creative because you feel shit more than the average person. So you are more likely to just hear out your heart and soul and put it on a page or in a song or in anything. But of course the, the idea is you're bound to madness and pain and it's all, you know, your creativity style to that and to me is like, that's partially true in the sense that yes, being oversensitive is more likely than not to put you in like a pretty intense emotional state. And let's say even, let's even assume the case where you are a creative genius. You are brilliant. You have.

[Duncan Trussell]

Thank you, thank you. You're right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

But the, but at the same time you don't want. It's like who cares if I have that but I have a miserable life. That's not the point. So to me, the thing that interests me in life in general is how do you, how do you take a strong sensitivity, a strong ability to feel a lot and not make it be something that is inevitably will lead to depression and sadness and pain and all of that? Because I mean you will taste pain for sure if you have that sensibility. But it's one thing to taste it, it's one thing to get stuck there, right? And, and you know, to go through it, anybody who's sensitive will go through it. But to be able to come out from the other end and if any, if anything, stronger. That's what interests me.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it's like, you know, there's in countless self help books and you know, religious traditions. There's the invitation to turn towards the pain that you're running. And I wonder if in the description of this tortured artist, really what you're describing is someone running away from the, the what they're feeling and that the sensitivity part is actually, I mean, I understand because let me tell you, I'm a master of running away from pain. It's my new book coming out. Run away from your pain. Run away from your pain towards a happy life.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Great self help. I like it.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's Incredible. And I know all the denial as.

[Daniele Bolelli]

A strategy, I love.

[Duncan Trussell]

Absolutely. It's. It's denial. It's alcohol. It's not getting enough sleep to numb yourself because you're kind of delirious. But really, it's sort of. When you hear stories of someone shooting heroin, for example, I think it's safe to say this is a person who is not running towards the pain. And what's bizarre, I mean, if you've ever done any kind of practice where you actually just feel as let it happen, you do realize, even though it seemed unbearable when you were starting to. When you were contemplating, all right, maybe I'm going to, like, address the grief, address the pain, and. And you think, I can't do that. I'll go mad.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Yeah, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then you do it and you realize, oh, it sucks, but it's certainly not as bad as I thought it would be. And also you realize, like, my addressing it isn't making it go anywhere.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

But it's also, like, somehow reducing all the reactive shit that makes you demonstrate what people would call crazy.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

The crazy is more like. I don't want to call it cowardice, because we all do it. I don't want to make everyone feel like a coward. I am one. But anytime you sort of sit with it and deal with it, you do realize it isn't even what you thought it was.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I mean, it still sucks, but absolutely, the alternative is not any better. It's not that because you start shooting up or distracting yourself with this, that, and the other. It gets better. It doesn't. You're just still. If anything, it has a deeper close in you. You just feel it a little less.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, and all. You understand it more usually, like, from far away. Whatever the fucking thing is, the. The thorn in your heart is from far away. It doesn't seem very nuanced at all.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No.

[Duncan Trussell]

Then the closer you get to it, you realize it's not just one thing. It seems to be a bundle of things. And then you get closer and you realize not all those things are bad. Then you get closer and you realize, you know, like any other thing you zoom in on, it's got a lot of space in there. Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And, I mean, regardless, maybe you don't see any silver lining in in the process. Maybe it just still sucks even when you zoom in.

[Duncan Trussell]

But.

[Daniele Bolelli]

But the point is you can still get through it in a way that you have options to get through it in a way that's healthier or just avoid it and you Will have. It's like, I remember when my father was dying, so I went back to Italy and. And I'm there with him and like, the first day when I saw him and I realized just how bad he was, man, he fucked me up. Like, I was like, okay, I don't know that I'm going to get through this.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

This is just. And so I remember, it's the one and only time that I ever took a Benzo. I took, like, whatever the allowed dose was. I took, like, less than half.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yo. Jesus.

[Daniele Bolelli]

So I took, like, a minimal amount, right. And it was enough to knock me out, to just remove all emotions for 12 hours or something. And. And I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing. This was fantastic.

[Duncan Trussell]

The best.

[Daniele Bolelli]

The next day, the situation hasn't changed. It still sucks, Right. Is still as horrible as I left it. But now I'm like, I'm in a mental space where I didn't get caught by surprise. It's 1% less awful than it was the earlier day in terms of, you know, my perception.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And of course, the natural thing in me would have been give me the bands of bottles because he's still 98.9% shitting.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

But I was like, no, man, I don't want to become Jordan Peterson in a coma in Russia or something.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I don't want. So, no, you did it yesterday, and that was fine, because yesterday you were about to hop out of a window. So, yes, I see that taking half a Benz is a better alternative than hopping out of a window. Today. You deal with it there. You work through it. Because today is going to suck horrendously, is going to hurt like crazy, but is not the. I'm literally about to hop out of a window.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Which is okay. In that case, do whatever you got to do, you know?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes.

[Daniele Bolelli]

So to me, that was important to say. You know, part of it is. Is not going to go away. I mean, I can make it go away for 12 hours artificially and never face it. It's not going to get better. It's. If anything is going to fuck up my life even further.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And so I was like, no, now today you deal with it. And it was, you know, awful, painful, terrible, but. But doable, you know?

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Not like the disease going to kill me, literally.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, but it sure feels like that.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I'm. I'm. I want your book. I want to run away from pain. I'm a fan of that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Is run away from pain, go towards madness.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I don't like, the older people are like, no, pain is your friend. Fuck you. Pain is your friend. Maybe it's not mine, you know, it sucks.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's terrible. Yeah, there's different kinds of pain.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I mean, let's face it. Like, it's like, obviously, like, generally pain is a way that your body is telling you, hey, stop doing. I'm sorry, I'm getting a nonstop text. I apologize. God damn it. Okay, phone off. The devil is asleep.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Like, wherever you have to cut there. Cut that bullshit. I'm so sorry, man. I usually turn my phone off the. You know, so when you're dealing with the emotional level, it's interesting because it's like if you have a broken bone, for example, one wouldn't say, well, the answer to the broken bone would be to touch it over and over and over. And yet the emotional stuff weirdly turning towards it and acknowledging it is almost all it takes. Just the acknowledgement is better than imagining it's not there or trying to distract yourself from it. Just. Yeah, today sucks. I feel like shit sometimes. If I wake up and I'm like, oh, no, I feel like shit. I can't feel like shit today. I got too much to do. That makes it worse. But if I wake my, yeah, I feel like shit, but I'm going to do it. Yeah, feeling like shit, feeling frustrated, angry, annoyed, stressed out, worried. I'm still going to do it. But I'm also, you know, honoring whatever part of my psychological makeup feels like it needs to alert me to a certain mood state. And then I've noticed if I do.

[Daniele Bolelli]

That, paradoxically, it's easier to move on.

[Duncan Trussell]

The resistance is so draining.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, I think you nail extremely important point of this stuff because you get all the motivational speakers in the world, all the self help, that it's all like, no, this pain is a great opportunity. And it's like, man, this is dumb bullshit me, you know, he's like, don't like, piece on my head and tell me it's raining kind of feeling, you know, this is terrible. Let's say that it's terrible. Let's acknowledge that it's terrible. Yeah, once, as you said, and I like the word you use, a knowledge, you know, he's like, once we acknowledge that doesn't mean that we are going to dwell in it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

You know, doesn't mean that. Then I want to just stay here forever and talk about how horrible it is. It's like, but, you know, if you get bad cards, well, don't show them to the other people. But in your head, you can acknowledge these are shitty cards. This is just how it is. Now that we have established that. How am I gonna play them? Because that's the only thing that matters at this point is like, it's not about right or wrong, fair or unfair. These are the cards in my hands. The only choice I get is how I play them. Okay, let's move on. You know, and that I find it's an honest process. But, you know, sometimes the skipping through and just going directly to this is a great opportunity to practice your game and play more creatively. It's like, yeah, okay, we'll get there. But let me get there. Don't start there.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, if you don't. This is. Oh, God, Sun Tzu. If you don't know the terrain, you're certain to lose the battle or something like that. And this. The. What I. What I've tried is essentially the equivalent of like, it's fucking winter outside, but you want it to be spring.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Mm.

[Duncan Trussell]

So what do you do if you're an idiot? You dress for spring thinking it won't be cold.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

Go outside, you fuck. Obviously you're an idiot. I mean, I've never done that. But I'm saying if you got a. You a winery heart and you're trying to dress for spring pretending that shit isn't there, you are going to be fucked. It doesn't. And also, I do like your point, which is that what we're talking about, I do think it is pop psychology. Fashionable shit and easily misunderstood. And the sort of pathological version of this is a person who feels that by articulating their misery and almost fetishizing it, you know, like being obsessed with it so that the misery becomes part of their identity.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

The never ending contemplation of why they're miserable and what the misery is and how they're miserable. And a strange kind of pat on the back for their courage in allowing everybody to know, you know, why I'm fucking miserable. I got attacked by fucking clowns when I was a kid. I was in a park and these fucking sick pedophile clowns jumped out of a well and I. And. And you know, it's ruined me. And then they never stopped talking. Honestly, if that happened to me, I don't think I'd ever stop talking about it. But you know what I'm getting at?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's that form of being where the. Where the, The. The. The pain is the identity and then there's the form of Being where it's like, no, no, no, I'm, I, I, I don't need to make this my identity. It's just a facet of how I am right now. And then you still attempt to go out into the world in a way that in some way shape or form is beneficial to the world. And I don't think overanalyzing yourself, confessionalism and all the varieties of this fashionable personality that we see all over the fucking place right now is necessarily making the world a brighter place. It's just inviting other. It's like if you have, if you have boils and I have boils, I'm.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Really curious where this is going.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's something to talk about there. Oh, what do you do for your boils?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, I put this like ointment on it and then I wrap them up in a bandage and I'm like, oh shit, I should try that to go wrap my boils. Now, if you have boils and I have boils and we're like, dude, let's just fucking look at each other's boils. Look at the pus when I squeeze it. You see that pus? It hurts. That's not good for anybody. No, you're going to spread whatever gross skin disease you have. It's a horrific analogy and probably not a good one. But the point is, it's this, I don't know, this thing, thing that emerges. God, I was in the airport reading books, autobiographies. And so many of them were some self analysis pinned to the childhood.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

A never ending obsession with all the things that went wrong, thus why. And in that sort of constant like obsession and announcement of it to the world, weirdly, you're trying to turn yourself into some kind of fucking hero because you went through a divorce and you're alive now or some shit. You know what I mean? That's the other part of it. There's an egoic quality, of course.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And I think that's why I really like when you say that acknowledge. Because that to me is the perfect balance, right? Because if you don't acknowledge it at all and you're in pure denial and you just keep directly to everything is a wonderful opportunity, it's fake, it's not dealing with reality. It's. And it's superficial because you're really just not the. But on the other end, as you said, if you become so obsessed with whatever the trauma is, whatever the pain is, that you dwell in it, you fetishize it, you become like, it becomes Your identity comes this thing that you never get out that just as bad, if not worse than the one who's just trying to skip it all together.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, absolutely doesn't exist. Maybe they're not different.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, exactly. So to me, those are both mechanisms that don't really lead to a good outcome.

[Duncan Trussell]

I don't know.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Because in one case you just spend your time weeping yourself. In one case you are essentially a master of self denial, which, I mean, I guess there's something to that, but it usually comes back to bite you in the ass for sure. So to me it's like, no, deal with what it is. Deal with the fact that certain things are ugly and painful and terrible and now figure out a strategy to get out.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And just practically it's not like you dealt with the emotions for a little bit now. Let's move on. Like, what can you do about it? This is where you're at. What, what do you do here? And sometimes you can. And you come up with good ideas sometime. My daughter, once, a few years ago, like probably the last time that I had a bad phase where I was like, anxiety galore and something that was really hitting me hard. And you know, when you get in that stage, you feel they are drowned, right. You feel that you can't get enough oxygen and. And it's absolutely awful. And I remember talking with her and she was like, how many times has it happened to you already? And I'm like, well, you know, yeah, a lot and half times she's like, and every time you come out of the other end, okay. I was like, yeah, yeah, that is correct. So she's like, play video games, spend, you know, whatever is like whether is a day, a week, a month. If it's really horrible, in a month you're going to be out. Maybe in a week you're going to be right. It's a wave is going to pass over you and you're going to be fine at the other end.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And the moment she said that like half of my anxiety went away because I was like, yeah, I am going to get out. So I just need to do time. Essentially. I just need to let the wave ride. It sucks. But if I'm not thinking is killing me, skilling me at every second is so much easier to let it ride.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's it. Yeah, that is. It's so paradoxical. Honestly, I think there's like a real illiteracy when it comes to like, we're really good at like physical trauma dealing with it. But like, yeah, the like Emotional component of human existence. It seems like we're fairly non nuanced in. In the way we've been taught to work with. With it.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And it's. And this is something Chogyam Trumba always. He always uses the term workable. And also what I love about him is, you know, his students are always asking him things like, well, what about anger? Like, I don't remember the exact question, but, like, isn't. You know, is anger bad? And he. He's like, actually, anger is very clear. And he sort of describes the. In only the way someone who's, like, been meditating their whole fucking life, he describes the. The facets of anger. And instead of making it like the thing that many people do, which is almost. They're ashamed. Anger.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

How often have you been in an argument with someone like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Are you getting angry?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. What's going on?

[Daniele Bolelli]

You can go with the different crowd. I don't get that usually, you know. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Well, this. Maybe this is what I say to myself. Yeah, maybe. I think a lot of people, they. Okay, let's put it this way.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, no, but that's interesting.

[Duncan Trussell]

Let's categorize the emotional states. The ones that are taboo and the ones that are not. So obviously, what is a universally accepted emotional state? Contextually? I guess it depends on the context. Joy.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now you're probably expressing joy after you just drove over a bunch of people on a crosswalk. Not so. Maybe. But in general.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Joy.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's a good one.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

If you're radiating joy. Radiating light. Wow. We love it.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And obviously happiness and confidence. I don't know if we call that emotional state lucidity. Very nice. Now, so if you're demonstrating any of these and you know, you feel like that, you wake up in the morning like I feel.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You go out in the world with the kind of confidence because you feel good.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Absolutely.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now you wake up pissed. Oh, I don't. I'm angry. What the fuck's wrong with me? This is not an acceptable. It's like having your zipper down. You're not supposed to feel these things in public.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Are very frowned upon. Don't be. Don't be a dick, dude. Why are you being a dick? Why are you grumpy? Mr. Grumpy? What happened, Mr. Grumpy? Did you get sick? Hand in your diapers, Mr. Grumpy? You know.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

These are not acceptable. And so we internalize that. And then. Then when you realize you feel like that, you feel embarrassed.

[Daniele Bolelli]

But I think that's a very important point regarding the sense of shame. Because to me, it's like, there's a difference between being angry and being a dick, you know, it's like, I can be angry. I can. And that's honest and is real. And I'm acknowledging something that's. This is where I'm at. This is where. Whether it's good or bad doesn't fuck it. This is where I'm at and does not mean I'm going to be addict to you. You know, And I think he's like, often there's a jump from. You can either be fake pleasant all the time and hide the demons inside.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Or if you let it out, suddenly you let everything out to the point that you just stop being a halfway decent person. Yeah, that's not good either. It's like, no, be honest with your emotions. If you're angry, be angry. If you are, whatever, be whatever it is that you are. Just don't be a dick. It's not that hard, you know, it's like I can be angry and try not to be actively addict to somebody, you know? Or like, hey, this is what I'm going through. This is why I'm mad. Or this is what you did that really got under my skin. Doesn't mean I hate you and I want to kill you. I get it. Maybe you idea, but this is where I'm at, you know, There's a difference between being honest with emotions and then giving yourself license to be a complete asshole to every.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, I'm just a dick. That's a whole style. Yeah, I'm the guy who's a straight. I'm a straight shooter.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, exactly. And then he's become an excuse to be a completely horrible person. Because I'm being honest. It's like, no, you're not honest, you're an asshole. That's a different thing. There's a way to be honest that's not horrible.

[Duncan Trussell]

And dude, it's a whole style. It's like, oh, my God. I was in Alpharetta, Georgia, wandered into a. Just bored, walking around, wandered into a shop. I thought it'd be really good because it was like local artists. It had an entire section dedicated to. I don't know how you. I don't know how you put it. It's this like. It's the T shirts that like, yeah, I'm a bitch, but I get things done. Or, you know what I mean? This whole thing. You know what I mean? Or the style of self help that's like how to stop being a fucking prick or that thing or that, that whatever that is. And so this is, you know, really just like bad manners. But what I'm talking about more is like because of the prohibition on tantruming.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, depending on how. Like, you know, if you have a kid, you know what it's like when the kid tantrums. At some point, they're gone with the wind. Yep. There's nothing you could do. You're not going to untantrum a child. You think that as a new parent that you're gonna like say some logical. But we don't have any more honey. And there I have to go to the grocery store, you see, to get honey. They're not gonna be like, oh, I'll stop flailing on the ground screaming, I didn't realize that. You just need to go to the grocery store. But if you have a shitty parent, then you're not gonna get hopefully whatever patients a parent can exhibit. And that's hard, but you're gonna get. You stop screaming, why? And then you, you feel ashamed of these emotions. And that's what I'm saying. You start learning to. When you're experiencing these things, you, you, you start feeling ashamed. And Shrumpa Rinpoche is talking about. No, if you look at any emotional state as it is, turn and face it, what you find is the enlightened mind. Because there's this clarity. There's a perfect, beautiful clarity to every emotional state, even confusion, paradoxically, you know, and that's to me is like, that's, that's the bizarre foreign. I want to thank today's incredible sponsor, Minnesota Nice, for supporting the dtfh. Listen, I'm sure by now you've probably heard of the miraculous mushroom Amanita muscaria. Now, it could be that you don't even realize you've heard of this mushroom. This is one of the most depicted mushrooms out there, that beautiful red mushroom. Josh, can you pull up a picture of Amanita muscaria? Pull this sweetie up here. You're going to recognize this right away, especially if you're a gnome. A lot of people don't realize when they've been buying the kitschy mushroom thing that they're putting in their yard or on their dining room table that they are actually representing an ancient, powerful spiritual medicine. Did you know that 1 in 8Americans are on anti anxiety meds, desperately seeking peace? Minnesota Nights was founded by Christian Rasmussen, a seeker who used Amanita muscari to escape the soul Crushing grip of benzodiazepine withdrawal. It was his portal to freedom. And now he's sharing that ancient knowledge with all of us. Wandering souls. Scour the web and you'll see. Minnesota Gneiss Ethnobotanicals is the number one supplier of Amanita muscaria in the United States, trusted by over 25,000 humans to explore the healing power of this sacred mushroom. But they don't stop at amanita. They've got a whole apothecary of plant medicines like blue lotus kava kava. They even put blue lotus into a freaking gummy because why not make enlightenment taste delicious? They're all about education, not just selling you stuff. They've got dosing guides and a community where you can share your mushroom journeys with other cosmic explorers. Each of their Amanita Muscaria capsules has 500 milligrams of raw powder. And they say to start with two to three capsules, that's one to 1.5 grams. To feel the magic. Within about an hour, you'll be sinking into a profound otherworldly relaxation. It lasts six to eight hours, and you might just dream of swimming through the astral plane. Minnesota. Nice. Ethnobotanicals wants to help you escape the matrix of stress and reconnect with the Earth's ancient wisdom. Go to mn niceethnobotanicals.com Duncan and use code Duncan20 for 20% off your first order of Amanita Muscaria capsules. That's mnnicethnobotanicals.com duncan code Duncan20. Don't wait. The forest is calling you. Join it. Also, by the way, when you have a new sponsor, it's common to have a meeting with them initially. And usually those meetings last about 10 minutes. I was on the phone with Christian for, I think, an hour and a half. Not just talking about how Amanita muscaria works. It works on the GABA receptors. You can look that up. Same receptors that the benzos work on. But I wish we'd recorded the podcast. The person behind this company is a wonderful, sweet, incredible human. So I really do hope you'll support them. Hare Krishna simultaneity. Simultaneously, these things rise together, which is if you're confused, for example, real confused, you're hungover, for example, you're high. How do you know you're confused? And what knows that that? Strangely, the thing that knows you're confused is not confused about your confusion.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

So what the fuck is that? The two happen together, I guess, is what I'M trying to get at in this long rambling way.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Makes perfect sense to me. Yeah, it's. And I think there's. Yeah, it's important to have that because there is a separation within us sometime where you know, you can see yourself from the outside, you see the emotions that are rising and you sometimes, if you have enough practice with it, you have a choice on whether you want to let them out or not. And I think that's where I don't think there's a fixed formula for what you should do. You should never let them out. Well, then you're repressed and it's going to show up in the most horrible way. You should always express your feeling. Well, context. There's something to be said about. I'm a big believer being like 100% honest when it comes to feelings. And also 100% honest doesn't mean unfiltered. You know, you still filter, right. In a way that is like I'm going to communicate them in a way that I'm not just throwing an emotional bomb in the room just because I feel like.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Because I'm being honest is like, no, I'm going to communicate it in a way that's ideally not terroristic to the other people involved that like, you know, the same way as you choose the communication style they are going to employ depending on who's in front of you. And you're going to adapt it so that you can speak a common language so that like the person, how will this person receive it? You know, that's important to ask oneself too and to tweak it just a little, you know, just enough not to just throw it out there, see what sticks and walk out.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know, this is why we have it. You know, even, even in Christianity, I think though people maybe don't realize that there's like levels. The initial articulation of any big idea is going to seem fairly simplistic, non nuanced, even idiotic. And people, when they hear that initial articulation, they dismiss the entirety of whatever the philosophy is not understanding. The point here is not. There isn't some delusion that some initial introduction to something like this is going to ease a person's suffering in the world. Yeah, but we have to start building a bridge somewhere, something. So here's a one idea and then anyone who's like gotten deeper into a thing, it starts getting a little hotter, you know what I mean? Suddenly it's. You would, if you'd heard that in the beginning, you might not have been so excited about the damn thing.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, wait.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's like, wait, what? But you're ready for that, hopefully. And then after that there's another one and another one and another.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Oh.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's a system within which there's levels that, that even if you were to take someone who just was introduced to it and tell them some of the deeper ideas, they wouldn't know what the fuck you were talking about anyway.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's like good sex, right? You don't start at 100% immediately. There's a buildup process.

[Duncan Trussell]

I can't get to 100.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Well, you know, there are peels for that.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, they don't. There's pumps.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I see.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's a pump.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, but you know what I mean. It's like there's a build up process.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's.

[Daniele Bolelli]

You build on excitement and suddenly the thing that's super hot when you're at 80% wouldn't have been hot if you start that way, like from second one.

[Duncan Trussell]

And so those are the great teachers, those are the greatest of teachers. Is like there isn't some monolithic method that they have for transmitting whatever it is that they're teaching. It's they, they're in the moment with you and they're seeing where you're at, right? And then they're sort of easing you towards something. I mean, it's literally the way you teach a kid. You know, initially. Oh my God. My oldest, initially, resistance to riding a bike. But I know him now and I know that the moment he gets that first pedal in and realizes the freedom of a bike, he's gonna be riding a bike.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

But I also know he's like me, too much pressure. He's gonna massively resist that. So it's finding this like perfect lure. How do I get him in there? Right? And then once you do it, it's the most beautiful thing to watch them zipping around on the bike, laughing. You're like, holy shit. There, you're done.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

The practice will take care of the rest. And so, yeah, in the articulation of one's emotions, in the articulation of anything that might be initially unsavory to a person, it's the, it's selfish. People who imagine that they can just say the same fucking thing to every single person.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's lazy too.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, it's lazy.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Just read the room.

[Duncan Trussell]

If you can't handle the fucking truth. That's not my fucking fuck fault. I think you're a bitch. Yeah, maybe there's another Way to say that.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Exactly. To me, that's why community. I think it's funny because people assume that, you know, we all use words all day long every day. So people assume that naturally and magically people are just good at communication.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And it's like, no, man. Most people are awful at communication.

[Duncan Trussell]

Horrible.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Which is the reason why they can be married for 15 years and suddenly find out that their spouse is an ex murderer. Because they never had a real conversation in a way that get somewhere that they read the room that they are able to read context or.

[Duncan Trussell]

Why do you have all these axes? Yeah, you know, I've been putting off asking you, what's up with the axes with the numbers on them? Why does this actually 15 on it?

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's just a hobby, you know, it's.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'm an ax collector.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, it's.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know. I know. You mean, though, there's like a. Just because of a complete. Usually just because, like, you don't want to, like, hear what they're. What they say more than, like, they're not saying what. What they mean.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Or what you said. Right. The throw stuff out there with the implication that whatever I say, if I'm being honest to my feelings, then it's fine. Is like. No, there are different styles of. There are different ways to express it. And, you know, the same way of expressing it that would work great in one context is completely go alienate your audience in another context.

[Duncan Trussell]

Right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

So why would you choose to do that?

[Duncan Trussell]

I'll tell you why. Because you're fudgeing, tweeting, and nobody talks about this like you really want to. Like, there is a horrific filter that has happened in the world, which is a lot of the people who are. What's it called? Virtue signaling. This is what we say. Okay, virtue signal, Snowflake, what's really going on? There is more than likely a person who actually wants to help. Really? Truly. I believe that. I believe it. Now the problem here's a person who wants to help, and they have some idea about how to do it, how everybody else should behave to make the world a better place. It's still. The initial impulse is good, and then, God help us all, they decide that they're going to do one of those tweets with the hand claps. People need to stop. Now. If I read that with a hand claps, I don't give a fuck who it is. Like, literally, Buddha could rise from dead and fucking, like, tweet some new, like, noble truth. But if those hand claps are in.

[Daniele Bolelli]

There, Shaltagam comes in. Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

He's like, fuck you. Blocked, not interested. And so. But I. And I think. But then even worse, what happens is this idiot form of communication starts happening within the comments where no one even knows anything other than the words and maybe some emojis. And no one's into the direct contact with a person, experiencing who they are, seeing the micro gestures, smelling the fear or the joy or whatever. Because you know how, like, how many times have you gotten a text that could be interpreted a million different ways just simply because it's not spoken, not in person. And then everyone. And this is why you hear so often when I meet people in person, they seem great.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, totally. And then you get the online version.

[Duncan Trussell]

And it's the hell. It's a hell realm.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Duncan Trussell]

The hell realm of people screaming and raging. You meet them in person, everything's great. The reason is, is because this form of communication that we're engaging in used to be limited to. You'd have to write someone a fucking letter.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And in the letter at least you can see the handwriting, the shake of the hand in rage or like they're drunk, clearly, or whatever. But even with a text, everything's getting. All the human elements getting filtered out.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And I think there are two levels. One, the text aspect that you said, it filters out so much of the real communication, so it's hard to read. That's one level and that's already bad. But at least that one is personal. Right. The text arrives to you, so the person is already thinking, even though it's a limited form of communication, how can I write something that would resonate with this person in a way that they understand what I'm saying. It's even worse when you take it to the next stage and it's like the social media stage where you're essentially writing a text for a mass of whatever people are out there that are going to read it. And of course, in that group there's going to be people of all I. They come from all kind of backgrounds. They come. So there's no context. Right. You're just throwing a message into the void with. Absolutely. Without being able to read the room.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And it's not that you're going to modify your message depending on who's there because you're a liar or because I'm going to say this thing to this person because they like me. And I'll say no. The message may be the exact same, but the way you will choose to communicate it, I'm going to approach, if I want to reach a certain conclusion, I'm going to approach it completely different if I'm talking to person A and to person B. Because person A speak a kind of language that is not going to resonate with whatever I'm going to say to person B will get to the same place, but the dance to get there is completely different. I have to tailor it to whoever is in front of me, send the message into the void. Seriously, that's like Lao Tzu is banging his head against the wall somewhere. Because it's exactly the. It's the worst of the spoken word. Losing the flexibility.

[Duncan Trussell]

Absolutely.

[Daniele Bolelli]

For actual good communication.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. It filters out the soul.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It really does.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you, you, when you think in terms of like, you know, identity as a sort of construct cobbled together mostly, not intentionally cobbled together. Cobbled together by experience, cobbled together by DNA. So you have these set of preferences essentially that have been forged by time and good luck or bad luck or whatever. And then you start, I don't know, you take a healthy dose of acid and you realize that's just bullshit anyway.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So then you, if you have any kind of awareness regarding your own identity, look at yourself. 10 years ago, 20 years ago, whoever that was, probably very different. I mean, otherwise you and I would be playing with GI Joes right now. If we could go back far enough. I don't know if you were into that. I was. You didn't like GI Joe's, what were you into?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

What toys did you like?

[Daniele Bolelli]

I'm trying to think. You know, I had this thing that. That actually tells you a lot about where I'm at in. As a kid, they had these tiny plastic toys. I don't think they had them in US in Italy. They were like historical characters. So there was like ancient Egyptians, ancient Romans.

[Duncan Trussell]

You didn't have that shit.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And so I would spend my time just making up personal. I was an only child growing. I was born in 1974.

[Duncan Trussell]

I keep forgetting you're the child of a philosopher.

[Daniele Bolelli]

So I would spend my time essentially playing movies in my head with these little things. And I would just have a blast that way. And what I do now is not that different.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, I was making play DOH figurines and putting them in the gears of my mom's exercise bike, imagining they were in factory accidents.

[Daniele Bolelli]

That's actually pretty cool.

[Duncan Trussell]

It was fun. But fucked up my mom's bike and got me to the therapist. She was like, what the fuck are you doing? What's wrong with you? And then, anyway, the point is we, though I still do that mostly we change.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

And so then now we realize, oh, it's kind of a constructed identity. For better, for worse. Not to say it's invalid or something. It's still mostly just some melting candle wax. Then you take that cobbled together identity and then you construct an online identity.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Sure.

[Duncan Trussell]

So now you're essentially what we've got going on online is the most insane form of dollhouse. Now you're parading this doll, which is you, and everyone else is parading their dolls. And just like kids playing with dolls, these dolls become caricatures of what was already a caricature. So you get this secondary thing arguing with the secondary thing. Or it gets even weirder. Man is mixed in with a human, with the doll of like, I am a powerful man. And then the doll I, the sensitive man and powerful man fight. You had toxic masculinity. You're a snowflake. Then mixed into that. Robots who have taken human personality.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Cloned it, and now there's some automatons mixed in there.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's like Slava, Ukraine stuck in the flames.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know what I mean? So it's the most bizarre dollhouse of all time. And people take that dollhouse so seriously. And even worse, they extrapolate from the interactions of these dolls online. A consensus. That's where it gets really fucking weird, Danielle. So we already have a filter that takes out all nuance from most conversations. The filter allows for a, you know, generally two dimensional at best caricature of oneself. And then Cobb thrown into that is automate automated bots designed to create the sense of a consensus. And then you're looking into that dollhouse and you're thinking, that's the world.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

Dear God. The world is up and it's not the world at all. It's. It's a technological lunatic asylum.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. And I mean, the problem is that because it starts not being the world at all, but then because so many people spend so much time inside the lunatic asylum, it becomes the reward. And then it becomes. Even when you meet them in person, they are like 80% there, you know, so it's like it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It's like it didn't start that way, but if you spend enough time in it and you constantly are there, that's how your. That becomes your experience, that becomes.

[Duncan Trussell]

You turn into the doll.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

You turn into a doll and then you're out there setting a Tesla on fire. Next thing you know you're pouring gasoline on a Tesla, a dumbass, completely unaware that those Teslas are like George Orwell's. That's 1984. Big Brother would drive a goddamn Tesla. They're covered in cameras. These poor dumb kids. My wife just sent me. This is really sad and so dumb. I mean, it's hard to feel too much sympathy. But listen to this. This is from Reddit. Course Reddit legal advice. First of all, if you're going on Reddit fucking legal advice, you're gone the wrong way, you're doomed. Daughter is being prosecuted for felony vandalism to vehicles, California. What else can be done? Who can we contact? Hello, I made a throwaway account to post here. My daughter, African American, 18 years old, was involved in a protest at a Tesla dealership. After the protest, she apparently vandalized, spray painted plus physical damage, a Tesla and cybertruck, and was caught on sentry mode. How clear are these cameras? Parenthetical. In other words, like, is there any way she could like get away with it? She told her lawyer that she was coaxed by her friends to do it. I'm scared for her and want her to have the best possible future, but I'm afraid that she's going to get a harsh sentence if found guilty, which her lawyer said is highly likely giving given the evidence. Now when you consider what drove this 18 year old two set a Tesla on fire, was it person to person communication? No, it was some shit. She landed on the wrong fucking subreddit that apparently failed to also say, listen, if you're gonna fucking burn a goddamn Tesla, put up, put.

[Daniele Bolelli]

You got mask up.

[Duncan Trussell]

You mask up. Yeah, you got Covid. Yeah, yeah, but, but even worse, no one, and this is other problem where the censorship emerges like I don't see in the conversation of rage, Elon Musk and the subsequent ignition of Tesla's spray painting Teslas, the assumption seems to be when you go out there to spray paint a Tesla that you the person who bought that Tesla, right?

[Daniele Bolelli]

You had an issue with that person.

[Duncan Trussell]

Was like, you know what I love Elon Musk. I really love oligarchs. You know what I love the oligarchy. What's it, honey? What's a good car, right? That shows I support an oligarchy. Hey honey, what's a good car to show I'm a fascist Nazi who supports the oligarchy? Oh, babe, Tesla, right? Probably what happened was somebody was like, man, I don't want to fuck up the planet with fossil fuels, right? So I'm going to Get a fucking Tesla.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Next thing you know, some 18 year old is setting your shit on fire, spray painting Nazi on the side of it, and you just got that fucking Tesla because you were inspired by Greta Thunberg. You know what I mean? It's the most ridiculous of protests.

[Daniele Bolelli]

But I mean, what's happening, I think is like, we live in an environment that. Because we spend so much time online and like the thing that gets attention online, the way the algorithm is built, the algorithm feeds on. I did actually a substack at some point. I had fun with that. I wrote this whole thing of comparing. I was started speaking about Aztec divinities, demanding blood sacrifices and going like, oh, that was not real. Went away with, no, that is extremely real. That is the algorithm. Currently, that is the. The Aztec gods are trapped at the roots of the algorithm and they demand our outrage. Anger.

[Duncan Trussell]

Jesus Christ, that's good.

[Daniele Bolelli]

We are feeding the algorithm that way. Pain, our sacrifice. Because that's what it does, right? It feeds on human suffering because that's what gets attention. You know, anger, outrage is what gets attention. And so we do our daily sacrifices to the gods of the algorithm in a way that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Give me your pain.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Which is atrocious because then it multiplies.

[Duncan Trussell]

Make your offering of pain.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Indeed.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now, this is amazing. And it weirdly connects to something that floats around the conspiracy boards from time to time. Inevitably, somebody will show a motherboard. They will zoom in on the motherboard. I don't know if you've seen that. Have you seen that shit? Can you, Josh, pull up zooming in on Apple Computer chips? This is really wild. You got to see this, dude. It freaks me out. But, dude, if I was an Aztec God, where would I want to live?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

So watch this. It's the wildest thing.

[Daniele Bolelli]

That's where the Aztec gods are.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it just kind of looks like a Google Maps, but it's deeper and deeper and deeper. I'm surprised someone has done one of these with a dick at the. Fully zoomed in.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Deeper. Deeper. Yes, deeper. Look at that, look at that. And so, like, what. What inevitably happens is within the circuitry. Maybe not so much in that one, but maybe pull up the surface of a microchip. Right there. Let's do another. Zoom in on these things. This is fun to do when you're blasted, but somewhere in this circuitry, suddenly you will start seeing what appears to be sigils. You'll start seeing these, like, symbol sets. Maybe like pause it right there. Yeah. So you look at that and you start Seeing these, like, you know, just the natural curvature of the lines in there and stuff. If you look at the right place, you will see something. Now do me a favor. Pull up Lesser Key of Solomon, Famous grimoire, the Lesser Key of Solomon. For those of you listening to this. Well, you can use your imagination, I'm sure, to know what I'm talking about. But, yeah, go back up, Josh. Yeah, actually, yeah, any. Yeah, click on that, see if we got. Okay, there you go. Scroll back up. So, like, look at that. Now notice in the perimeter, the way that the circles of the lines connecting them look identical to circuitry. And so this pops up on the. You could take that off, man. Anytime I pull up the Lesser Key of fucking Solomon, people who practice magic are like, dude, what are you fucking doing? Don't even show that. I don't know what I'm showing. It's on Wikipedia. Blame them. But when you consider just what you're saying, that within the machinery that is the home of the algorithm and is the storage area for the rage, which has been converted into just ones and zeros, there's literal sigils, what could be interpreted as sigils. It really becomes quite eerie. And then when you look up these people, can you pull up early computer development? Occult. Have you ever looked into this? Oh, it's a good rabbit hole. The hidden history of digital technologies and the occult ideas that are reflected in programming language explanation, coding. The Digital Occult Project. The project traces the occult histories of digital technologies and how they challenge binary, linear, colonial and patriot. I don't know what the fuck that is. Esoteric programming language. These languages are designed to make code hard to read and write, which can be a challenge for programmers. So in other words, like the grimoire is now the wizard takes a magical language. C uses the magical language to invoke the entity which is the program, the spell. That's the spell that they're casting. And then that spell multiplies via buying, downloading you down. Anytime you're downloading an app, you're summoning.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Summoning demons.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yes, yes. And when you say a thing like what you're saying, suddenly all of that, which could easily just sound like, yeah, take another bong or dumb ass. It starts seeming strange and true and bizarre.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Well, and also, I mean, at a very basic level that doesn't require any. No bong hits or anything to appreciate, is think about, like, the people who make a living, and there's plenty of them who make a living stalking outrage online, who their whole stick, whether they have a podcast Whether they have magazine, whether they, whatever that is, is like their whole thing is they know that they get engagement by pissing people off.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

So their whole thing becomes, let's wake up this morning and throw something that's going to create anger, that's going to create a backlash, that's going to create group A fighting against group B. My. The algorithm will pat me on the back for having performed a good sacrifice because I'm delivering massive amount of engagement, which is built on usually anger. And I've done my job. And this is what people make a living with, you know, and they are rewarded both financially and just about every other way by doing it.

[Duncan Trussell]

Dude. Years ago, a friend of mine was out to dinner with an influencer and the influencer, I don't remember, had posted some bullshit that had created quite a bit of outrage online. And I think my friend was like, trying to comfort. This is in LA and, you know, where there's like, you know, a whole burgeoning, like, you know, not like, you know, podcast influencer, but, you know, just like people who have developed a kind of online personality. They recommend brands. Anyway, the point is my friend's trying to comfort this person and they were like, so happy and they talked and found out that they were marketing majors, of course. And it's called rage farming.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

And the entire. It wasn't just like they accidentally posted some shit that upset a billion people?

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, it was planned.

[Duncan Trussell]

And not only was that phase planned, many phases after plan the whole thing. A campaign.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And people are stumbling upon this. Like you. Why the would you say that? And it's like, dude, don't you understand? You are at their altar.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

Altering. Offering their rate, your rage to them, which they are taking into money.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Vampirizing your age, turning it into fucking cash. And you just got them fucking paid.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Absolutely.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now, people just don't understand that yet. If they did, everything would change right away. If you understood that if you really want to fuck someone up that you disagree with online, don't say anything.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Exactly. Just say nothing. Yep.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yep. Just crickets.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

They'll die in the fucking vine. They'll wither and die. We don't understand that yet.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, it's too. It's the human thing, Right. I see something that pissed me off, I need to react because I'm fighting against the bad. And it's like you're giving them power. Your reaction, as you said, is what gives them power is what they will be able to take that energy and turn into money. Turn it to popularity torn it. And I've seen it a bunch of times with people who are not the range when they start. And they'll put something out there and they are. It's cool, it's. And they get a little engagement and then they put something absolutely outrageous and it gets massive engagement. And then they are like, I'm getting rewarded for this. I'm not getting rewarded for that. Okay. Suddenly the frequency of the outrage increases until it become their whole stick. Because that's what gets them attention and money. And it's disgusting because I'm just like, dude, I mean, Jesus, go sell drugs, do something. If you really need money that bad, there's probably. If you go sell drugs is less damaging than the shit you're doing this way to other people.

[Duncan Trussell]

Or to you, but.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Or to you. It's to me is. I mean, the fact that like, I understand the mechanism, but it still doesn't justify it in this list because it's like, man, that is disgusting. You know, choosing to go down that path consciously because you're getting. It's gross.

[Duncan Trussell]

You just made me think of the best invention ever. It's two things. So we. We might become billionaires from this I will share the profits. 50 50. Because I was in the room with you. You too, Josh. Do you see how Josh and I dress the same now, by the way, aren't we cute?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Very.

[Duncan Trussell]

Are we cute?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Extremely. Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

Do you mean that?

[Daniele Bolelli]

110%.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now here's the invention. Holy shit. This will change everything. Now I know. Now I know how Einstein felt when he came up with the theory of relativity.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Okay, no pressure.

[Duncan Trussell]

Here's how it works. It's a desktop tool. Now on one. Basically, you take. It's similar to the thing I use to measure my blood sugar. You take a pen, you prick yourself, you extract blood. Now, if you're really angry at someone, if you put a drop of your blood and it will know it's your blood. You can't use anyone else's blood. You can't have a hostage and extract their blood. Somehow it does some quick. I don't know, it's a little more complex than I imagined initially. But the point is, it takes your blood drop of blood. This means you're really mad. You put the drop of blood into this machine converts it. Yes. This is actually an angry person. He's so offended by what you have said that they've extracted blood from their finger. Now, on the other side, it's like a hand slapper and it slaps your hand so Every drop of blood extracted. You know, if you extract the blood, you get to slap the hand of the person who did it.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now you're asking, why would I want my hand slapped? I'll tell you fucking why. Profit sharing. For every hand slap, it mines crypto. You know what I mean? You'd see all these wealthy people with blistered hands, but it's like, dude, every hand slip, slap is, I don't know, some percentage of Bitcoin or something. And the drop of blood, you know, you got to get through the machine and slap the hand of an ass.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Clearly.

[Duncan Trussell]

Or an ass. I mean, an ass slapper would be cool, too. Speaking of which, you don't like my invention?

[Daniele Bolelli]

No.

[Duncan Trussell]

Now that I say it, it sounds like no.

[Daniele Bolelli]

How could I argue with such genius?

[Duncan Trussell]

How did. Yeah. Thank you for holding us. Now, where did that come from?

[Daniele Bolelli]

I fucked up my wrist, and this is why I came to buy it. This is the best part. By slapping my lady's ass too hard. I wish I was mixing that up. I just went whack on her ass and just, like, hit my wrist at the wrong angle and it up.

[Duncan Trussell]

Getting old. Sucks.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, it's. But, you know, if you're gonna mess up your wrist, that's probably a good way for a reason.

[Duncan Trussell]

At least you didn't break it.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It's like. Yeah, there's that.

[Duncan Trussell]

And by the way, that's the most amazing flex I've ever seen. It's subtle, beautiful, powerful. Because also kind of what you're articulating there, and I mean this with truly, with all due respect, is your lady has a very, very strong, muscular ass. Not a lot of padding down there.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Not too many squats over time.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's a lot of squats. Yes. If you've gotten your ass in such powerful shape.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yep.

[Duncan Trussell]

That a slap.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Damages the wrist.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's a lot. A lot of time at the gym.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And I know your lady.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Dangerous.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Scary. Easily would kick both of our asses, wouldn't you say? Don't hesitate. Say, yes. Yes. Fucking Christ.

[Daniele Bolelli]

She messed up by restarted. Yeah. So, yes, of course, clearly, in that.

[Duncan Trussell]

Moment, in that micro moment, I saw you.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I don't learn.

[Duncan Trussell]

I know exactly what you thought. Here's what you thought. You thought, definitely, she kicked your ass, Duncan. And then you're like, but I. I practice martial arts.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

I don't know. You were imagining, like, give me myself an essentials.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

You know I'm gonna go down.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Probably immediately.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Broken nose. I don't know how to block anything. You're gonna hear the crunch of my nose, see a splatter of blood. I'll probably cry because it hurts so bad. And then you're already imagining like some stance you're in.

[Daniele Bolelli]

You up? Yes.

[Duncan Trussell]

You weren't even thinking like why are we fighting?

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, no, that's secondary. Why are you fighting? It's for later.

[Duncan Trussell]

Why are we both attacking my girlfriend?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, no, and I got the visual because I remember. Yeah. Whenever you break somebody's nose, it's gross, it's blood everywhere. There's. It's just nasty.

[Duncan Trussell]

See, I can't say that.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because when you say whenever you break someone.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Never.

[Duncan Trussell]

It means it's happened to you more than once.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes, that is correct.

[Duncan Trussell]

You didn't say when I broke a person's nose. Whenever I break a person's nose. What are you doing out there in. Oi man. You're slapping asses. You've got ass slap wounds. You're breaking noses. Oi. Is this peaceful place Belle comes to town arrived. This cracking thunderous sound of your hand smacking your martial artist lovers ass echoing through the Ohio hills. Followed by the crunch of the nose of probably someone who just came to your door because they were like having a bad mushroom trip.

[Daniele Bolelli]

You know, we actually, we have been having sonic booms because a SpaceX is launching close by. So about once a week the whole damn town shakes. It's like having a 4.0 quake kind of thing where is like everything shakes. The dog freak out. So I think is my asses lap is going to be the next the counter to the sonic bow. But you know, actually what you said is funny because Israel is. There's a lot of people that I run into and I realize, you know, we understand each other. We come from the same place. And I start talking and I realize, whoa. We do come from different places because they usually. These are people. Especially now I were sort of grown up, upper middle class, fairly wealthy, fairly. And in my mind I'm like, you know when. Yeah. Kind of like when you break somebody's nose or you know when. And I say things that I see horror in their eyes where I'm just like, you don't know. You haven't been.

[Duncan Trussell]

I tried so hard not to do that. And because you just don't understand.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

You can really like wound people.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Not even because you're saying something mean to them. I had the same experience. I had the same experience. I was just casually talking about how on another podcast I was making A joke about a pip. A pit bull would climb in my window and I would have to fellate it.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And, and you know, I hang out with comics.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. It's normal. It's fine. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And you know, that's the kind of thing that any. Blowing a pit bull is not going to even raise an eyebrow. Of course if anything someone will add, there'll be questions about the taste and then this is like a dinner. And I, I really did, did not intend offense.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Of course. Of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then as I'm telling the story and I realized like this is not the right, the right terrible silence.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And this a kind of sadness on their faces and it's like. And I know now there's really nothing I can do.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because I have talked about making a joke about blowing a fucking pit bull and I don't know how to repair that.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. How do I walk that back? Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's no way.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

There's no way to walk it back.

[Daniele Bolelli]

That's brilliant. I love it.

[Duncan Trussell]

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[Daniele Bolelli]

Context.

[Duncan Trussell]

Context. Yeah, you have to like, you have to understand that it's weird that most people that seems to be lacking to some degree but not really. You know what, when I get around most people there is like a normal, even like people who I know. What I really love is getting in a conversation with someone who's made a assessment of me based on who I'm friends with.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah. Oh, that's the worst. That's the fucking. Like. I hate the whole guilt by association stuff.

[Duncan Trussell]

And for one, the assessment they've made is generally a poor assessment of the person that they're judging that I'm friends with. But then because of that, blah, blah. But then it's fun to talk with him.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Because after they talk with you for a few minutes, there's some confusion that comes over their face. Wait a minute, I thought you. What? You're not Andrew Tate or whatever. The.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then it's a beautiful moment, really, because it's. And then also, if I've made judgments about them, that starts falling away and you realize, like, oh, God, the poison. These Aztec gods goes back to the Aztec gods. What the fuck have they done to us? What the fuck. Wouldn't it be better to just from time to time, drag someone on top of a pyramid and cut their fucking heart out?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then we're all friends.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes. I think that's. I would vote for you.

[Duncan Trussell]

We got to get back to that.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes, yes. We're missing now because, I mean, seriously, these level of suffering that's extracted in this way, it's unreal. It's like, affects almost anyone who has online access on a daily basis to some degree or another, and it sort of start poisoning your personality or attitude, the way you respond to people. The. I did it as an experiment recently on social media stuff where I would say something, and of course, it doesn't even matter what you say, you're always going to have a four or five people like, you fucking suck. I hate you. This is the most horrible thing anyone has ever said. And, you know, usually the classic response is either block or, you know, really let them have it. And I've done it. And, you know, it feels good in the moment, but it's probably not the best, most productive use of my time and energy. And then there have been times where, like, I'll. I'll completely step out of character in whatever those dynamics are, and they'll be like, hey, man, you know, if you disagree with what I said, that's cool. Fuck, I barely agree with myself half of the time. So maybe I am saying something stupid, but if you tell me this way, I'm not going to hear you because you're just coming out of the gate being a dick. If you tell me in a different way, I may actually listen to you. And you know what's fun is like, not all the time, of course, because some people Will be like, fuck you and die anyway. But like 8 out of 10 will switch their tone and we'll go like way by. What I meant was da, da, da, da. And they're still kind of 80% dicks. And then I played one level, four turn, one level. And by the end, you know, we are best friends and we're getting along and I'm just.

[Duncan Trussell]

Then you're like, you want to go get coffee?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Duncan Trussell]

And then they come and get coffee and you strangle him.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Of course, that's. It was all a setup.

[Duncan Trussell]

Lure them.

[Daniele Bolelli]

It was all a setup to lower their brains.

[Duncan Trussell]

Their nose. Exactly.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And then struggle, dude.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. My friend had this technique where, you know, someone would come at him or pissed at this or that, and instead of ignoring it, he'd be like, oh my God. Shit. Didn't mean to offend you. Hey, you know, I was looking at your profile and I kind of need some. I've been looking for an assistant. And immediately they'd be like, actually, I'm a real fan. I'd love to work with you, like instantaneously, whatever the fucking crazy shit was. The moment there was like a chance to work with him. Of course, dude. So last night I gotta tell you what I saw. How are we doing on time, Josh? So last night, last minute, I got a text from Rogan. He's like, you want to go see Age of Disclosure here at south by Southwest? Do you know what that is? So this was the second showing of what I've been on Reddit. I go on Reddit, I can't remember if it's alien or ufo. It's the UAP subreddit. And they've been talking about this doc for a while, saying this is like. A lot of people are saying this is the most important disclosure doc that has come out yet. The dude who made it made it in secret for two years, knowing that if the wrong people found out this was being made, they would find a way to stop it. Holy shit. It was so cool. Theater full of people. And I'm guessing many of them are up to date on the UAP phenomena. Probably some of them are just south by Southwest.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right, Bernstein, of course.

[Duncan Trussell]

And so the genius of this thing, though I wouldn't say there's a lot of new data was that it's so many high ranking government officials, bipartisan from. So you've got Air Force, Navy Intelligence, you've got the usual suspects like Elizondo and stuff. You've got. But it's so Harry Reid, Marco Rubio, on and on and on and on and on. Just, it's just interview after interview after interview after interview after interview with these people mutually, pretty much mutually, saying we have alien fucking wreckage and we have been reverse engineering it. And this is where it gets really cool. I guess this was the new data for me, though. I'd heard bits and pieces of it. Stop me if you've heard this. Anyone listening. As soon as this thing's available, watch it. So here's how it works. It's so weird. I think Marco Rubio is talking about this. So essentially Elizondo and all these other people start realizing these UAPs are showing up and it's a national security threat. What the fuck is this? It's going 40,000 miles per hour and it's stopping on a dime. We have no technology like that at all. So of course they're like, let's figure out what the fuck this is. What is it? And in the exploration of this phenomena, they realize that there is something called the Legacy Program, which is some shadowy, mysterious coalition of, I don't know, deep state operatives who for a long time have been cleaning up UFO wreckage. And then. Or they don't clean it up, they involve private. Like. Like Lockheed Martin. So what happens is suddenly Lockheed Martin goes to clean up a ufo, or there's. It's. It's under the umbrella of a private corporation, meaning you don't have to do freedom of information acts with them. Completely private. So if you go to the federal government to try to fish around for this shit, you're not going to find it because it's not happening at the federal level. It's happening in some weird shadowy partnership. And so I had no idea. They just tried to pass this bill. Do you know about this? They just tried to pass a bill that was the most definitive disclosure bill ever. Basically saying if there's alien wreckage, knowledge of any of these craft, knowledge of any of this, you must let us know. You can't keep it secret anymore. Now you would think something like that would just get passed.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, of course not. I would think there's no chance in hell.

[Duncan Trussell]

But why, why would you think it wouldn't get passed?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Because why would you want it to be out there in front of everybody stuff that you are still trying to figure out what the hell to do with it, what, how you can use it. Say, why would you. Never mind the possible consequences of mass panic. Never mind. I mean, it can affect.

[Duncan Trussell]

They talk about that. Yeah, they talk about all these considerations they've said and it's really amazing how much of these, like, government people are saying. We have had meetings discussing the repercussions of letting people know everything that apparently we know about this shit. And now it looks like bipartisan. Most people are Chuck Schumer, Marco Rubio, the late, great Harry Reid. All these people are saying, no, it is essentially a crime to know that we are not alone in the universe and not share that information. The government does not have the right to withhold something of this magnitude from the planet. And it's sadly nothing to do with some compassionate sense of not wanting to create mass hysteria, but as it turns out, fear of prosecution. Because apparently a lot of laws have been broken in the sharing of this technology with various private contractors and not other ones. Lawsuits would happen, of course. That's why the pushback. The pushback is people think their ass is on the line. So they're now trying to pass a new bill. And the new bill is saying amnesty.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Meaning from your forward, but not in the past.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, in the past, you get pure and. Oh, right.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, no. Like everything done before amnesty, we start.

[Duncan Trussell]

From scratch and they think that's going to get it pushed through and. Whoa, that's crazy.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, that would be interesting to see.

[Duncan Trussell]

So have you seen any orbs or anything out there in oi. Because people I know who live out there say they see sometimes. I guess it could be space out there.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I did have once. More than once. Definitely once. I remember once, like many years ago, I was camping in Wyoming or something like that, you know, and I'm about to go to sleep. I'm outside my tent, I'm looking at the sky. Pretty beautiful. I see, you know, a couple of planes cross by and. Cool. And I see this thing that has, you know, flashing light. It looks like a plane is like. It's clearly a plane is moving at a certain speed and. And the next second, and I swear, no psychedelics involved, no nothing. Yeah, Just sped up at about hundred times the speed he was going before in a zigzag path there.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And I was like, what the hell was that? You know that was.

[Duncan Trussell]

It's one of them, right?

[Daniele Bolelli]

I was like, that was weird.

[Duncan Trussell]

Okay, here's where it gets cool, man. What you just described is happening so much that they now have a set of. I can't remember what they called it, but it's a set of characteristics of these things. And from that, just a set of characteristics, they've been able to theorize what the fuck is happening. So take the Tic Tac for example, Commander Fravor sees this fucking thing going 40,000 miles per hour or something. It's like insanely fast. When I've seen the footage of that thing, I get frustrated because I'm like, what the fuck? They don't have better cameras or whatever? Of course, now, as it turns out, when you're picking these things up, when you're filming these fucking things, they do have a weird blurriness that would make you think it's being intentionally blurred. That's not what's happening, that's just what they look like. And the reason that they look like that, according to this awesome theory, is there is an anti grav. Essentially the theory is. And I know I sound ins like what's cool about this documentary is it's just, it's not people like me babbling. It's like these are people who have, like worked in the DoD for 20 years, right? And so they're saying that there's a bubble around these things that's warping time space, that inside the bubble time is moving differently than outside the fucking bubble. Somehow this disparity in time space configuration allows them to accelerate in ways that we've never seen before and stop without turning into fucking jelly. And the other crazy thing they said is the new radar systems they have are allowing them to peer through the bubble now and see that there are vehicles inside. Cubes, Weird fucking cubes.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Okay.

[Duncan Trussell]

What the fuck? Yeah, it was so cool. Theater full of people. And I just kept looking around and like, just looking at people, like, trying to process. Of course, this is not Alex Jones.

[Daniele Bolelli]

No, no, no, of course. But I mean, even like, even in the, the news, like, remember when, when was that? Like two months ago or something. They were all the quote unquote, drones over New Jersey. And the government was like, yeah, we don't know what the hell that is. Not ours, not our technology. We don't get it. And. And then it just kind of disappear from the news. I don't know if they try to put a bow on it at the end and try to give an explanation. I may have missed out some stuff, but remember how he was constantly in the news and then it just. From one day to the next, it just disappear with. No. Maybe there was an explanation that I miss. I don't know.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think Trump gave a very frustrating explanation because he said he was going to look into it.

[Daniele Bolelli]

And I think a frustrated explanation that never happens.

[Duncan Trussell]

I think he just said it's ours.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Oh, yeah, yeah. After spending a month saying it's not yeah, that's exactly what. What the fuck?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, well, you know, the, this phenomena there is happening so much now that not only is it like apparently a national security threat, it is a threat to just planes.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right?

[Duncan Trussell]

You don't, like, we don't, we don't know what the fuck these things are. Yeah, we have no idea. One of the theories is they're coming from the ocean, that they've got bases down there. We've. We don't know what 80 was down there. The other theory is extraterrestrial hyperdimensional. The other theory which is really fucked up is this is what Rubio was saying. So you have this legacy program, right? There's someone in it, they know that these things are crashing. They know they can collect the debris. He's saying it's an arms race essentially because these things are showing up all over the planet. And you don't want, if you know one of these things has crashed, you don't want China or Russia to get it. You want to get it because if we can reverse engineer the tech, then we're going to have way ahead, right? Incredible superiority. So this race happens where people go to try to scoop up the fucking wreckage. And you know, this, this is a deep government program. It's happening, but time passes and whoever had that position working to get this shit scooped up, retires. New person comes in person doesn't get quite as much information. Then a new person comes in, less information. This now what's left is some like group of private contractors that has no connection to the federal government anymore, but has reversed engineered this tech and is using it to make shit tons of money. And that's the whole creepy thing is maybe what we're seeing is actually not maybe at one point something crashed, but what we're seeing is some fucking Lockheed Martin test vehicle because they figured out a reverse engineer this shit. But the main takeaway is they're all over the goddamn place. And I really, at the end of this thing, my general theory was it's gotta be our tech. But after this, I don't know, man, that's. It gives you a real uneasy feeling like, like, oh, fuck, I hope it's our tech.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right? Exactly.

[Duncan Trussell]

But if it's not our tech, if it's another country's tech.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, that's not good. Or if it's.

[Duncan Trussell]

What?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, it's, it's not good either way. Yeah, totally.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, that's a little on the. Yeah, that's a little rough to contemplate.

[Duncan Trussell]

You don't want to believe it either.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

The other thing that I noticed in my own head was in what's beautiful about the documentary is as it progresses, you don't want to believe it for some reason.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Sure. I mean, for obvious reason. Because it depends any sense of stability you have in the world as it is. And so it's like, it definitely messes with your head. Is not something you want to be like, okay, everything I thought was true until the other day gets to be put in discussion today. That's not a fun feeling. It's a pretty uneasy feeling. So of course most people are going to, you know. Yeah, most people would freak out 100%.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah. My wife and I were having the conversation, like just realizing like the documentary was amazing in that it forces you to contend with like, okay, either there's a bipartisan conspiracy to make people think that there is a superior technology existing on the planet with us, that we have no idea what it is. And.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, that doesn't sound right.

[Duncan Trussell]

Or there is an advanced civilization surveilling our fucking planet right now. And it's happening more and more and more and more like they just discovered us or something and now they're checking us out.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Which of course raises the, the question why? Because that's a little unsettling. The possible answers. I mean, some could be good. But again, the fact that it's an open ended thing is a bit unsettling.

[Duncan Trussell]

That's the creepy part.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Is that what, what does seem to be a commonality between all these people who are saying this shit? Stanford, fucking professors. There's some professor from Stanford, the CIA shows up at Stanford. We want you to check these samples because these are people who have come into contact with these things. They're sick. They're sick. People who've been around these things have like all kinds of fucked up problems. And so again, this is someone. It's fucking Stanford. What the fuck does a Stanford professor have to gain from yapping about the CIA coming to his office so he could look at.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Right.

[Duncan Trussell]

So you know, he's just like, yeah, people have been around. These things are like, have organ damage because whatever energy field these things are putting off, if you get too close, it fries you. It like fucks up your organs. Which is good news. I'm not good news, but it's good to hear someone like me. I see a fucking UFO in the forest. I'm gonna go check it out.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Of course you would.

[Duncan Trussell]

You would. Oh, give me. You wouldn't if you saw a glowing cube.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

In Ojai shimmering glowing cube.

[Daniele Bolelli]

You know what I would say? I'd say, duncan, go and let me know what's up.

[Duncan Trussell]

All right, man.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Come back and.

[Duncan Trussell]

No, you're probably right. I pro wouldn't go, but I'd be tempted to.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

How many like of us out there though, would do that? It's just good to hear. Like, if you do see a crash Tic Tac, stay the fuck away from it because it's going to fry your ass.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yeah, that's not a good feeling. Yeah, well.

[Duncan Trussell]

Any parting thoughts, Danielle?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Parting thoughts? Parting thoughts. Oh, you know what? I have to say, these are. I'm going to. I think they probably kept my family hostage and they are ready to torture them. Otherwise I have to bring this up. So I ended up being. I joined these two friends. We started a mushroom company. It's a mushroom, not as in. In the good kind. Mushroom as in the other stuff is like Cordyceps Chaga. Right. Medicinal mushroom stuff. And I've been, you know, because I had access and stuff, I had been experimenting heavily with it. I've been thinking it. So, you know, just throwing it out there in case anyone is interested in that stuff. We started this company called Purest Mushrooms. Check it out.

[Duncan Trussell]

Wait, you got to do a better pitch. Yeah.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I mean, I'm shy because I'm not a commercial guy. I don't. But basically what it is is do you ever mess with any of the mushrooms? Like the medicinal, not the. I know you've messed with plenty of mushroom in another department, but like medicinal stuff, like anything from Cordyce Separation.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, Cordycep. I remember taking Cordyceps and like, I do.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Did you feel anything?

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, I did.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Or. Yeah.

[Duncan Trussell]

Yeah, it had a positive effect, but I feel like I'm susceptible to placebo effect.

[Daniele Bolelli]

So I think each one is different in what they can do. And also you are different from the next guy. So what works for you may not work for the next.

[Duncan Trussell]

So what. What was your experience? What'd you take?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Cordyceps. To Me, I notice it in working out. It's just stamina was way better. Yeah, I just had more energy. I could do more round. Like, I normally would get to the end of a jujitsu class and be like, dying on the mat. And I would be like, come on, guys, let's do one more round.

[Duncan Trussell]

Isn't Cordyceps the shit that grows off of caterpillars?

[Daniele Bolelli]

And it's the one that's, you know, if you watch the Last of Us, that's Cord Cordyceps. Except that the good thing is, so we're not about to unleash mushroom zombie apocalypse because you need your body temperature. Need to be. If it's. We would be dead if for the necessary temperature for cordyceps to start taking over our body. So instead, we just get stamina, which is not a bad.

[Duncan Trussell]

But you do harvest them because they grow off of cordyceps?

[Daniele Bolelli]

Usually. No. As far as I know, cordyceps grow those. I think it's wood. I think it's.

[Duncan Trussell]

We got it. Cordyceps mushrooms from Danieli Belle, harvested from caterpillars and gnomes. And if you're too cold, they'll grow all over your ass.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Yes, exactly. That's exactly what happens.

[Duncan Trussell]

I'll pitch that up front too. Man, you got to give us the website for that. I'd love to try some, too.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Cool. I have some for you.

[Duncan Trussell]

Oh, beautiful. Thank you so much. It's so wonderful to catch up.

[Daniele Bolelli]

I know, man. I haven't seen you in too long. This is the longest we have gone without podcasting since I first met.

[Duncan Trussell]

Not good for my soul.

[Daniele Bolelli]

2012.

[Duncan Trussell]

Got to move here. I know the fuck out of Ohio. What are you doing out there? Come out here. Slap some asses, break some noses.

[Daniele Bolelli]

Let's do that.

[Duncan Trussell]

All right. I love you, man. Thank you. That was Danielle Bellelli, everybody. Don't forget to go to Purist Mushrooms dot com. Check out his mushrooms history on fire, too. Check them both out. And come see me out there on the road. You can find all my dates at douggettrustle. Com. And subscribe if you want Commercial free episodes. Goodbye.