707: Daniel Noah

Summary

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Duncan Trussell Family Hour, Episode 707: Daniel Noah

Release Date: August 22, 2025
Guest: Daniel Noah (Co-founder of SpectreVision, Director of SpectreVision Radio, writer of High Strangeness)

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Overview

This episode is a spirited, in-depth conversation between comedian and podcaster Duncan Trussell and producer/experiencer Daniel Noah. The core theme revolves around personal encounters with the paranormal, why our culture is experiencing a surge in reports of high strangeness, and the drive to normalize and artistically explore such experiences. Daniel Noah shares his journey from skeptic to experiencer, how his sensitivity to the unseen shapes his work, and details new projects: SpectreVision Radio (a paranormal podcast network) and the "High Strangeness" comic book series. The discussion is equal parts candid self-examination, philosophy of consciousness, and classic eerie ghost story.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Normalization of the Paranormal: Both Daniel and Duncan aim to destigmatize claiming encounters with the paranormal, framing these experiences as part of a spectrum of human consciousness rather than delusion.
• The Personal as Universal: Noah’s transformation from skeptical horror fan to open experiencer mirrors similar shifts on a societal level, where more people are reporting oddities and questioning consensual reality.
• Art as Reassurance: Discussion on how art, especially horror, serves to connect people with their own strangeness, offering comfort that “you’re not alone.”
• Changing Cultural Landscape: Reflection on the convergence of technology, media, and a rising openness to “the unknown,” coinciding with Noah’s launch of major new paranormal media hubs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

How Daniel Noah Became a Horror Producer and Paranormal Advocate

[03:50–07:27]

• Daniel’s fascination with the paranormal started young, rooted in a tumultuous childhood. At first, he saw it only as literature, a “means of practicing confronting difficult things metaphorically.”
• His original skepticism bordered on snobbery: “I thought that people who believed that stuff were kind of weak willed…” (Daniel, 06:22)
• Things changed through direct experience at haunted sites, notably the Stanley Hotel (the inspiration for "The Shining"):

  “Get on the planchette, it starts flying around the board like it defied all reason and frankly, the laws of physics.” (Daniel, 09:26)

• The experience escalated: Ouija session with “Ava,” a drowned girl, leads the group to a hotel room where others had just seen her ghost—validation from strangers, not staged by staff.
  (See [14:42] for the ghost story and details.)

Repeated Paranormal Experiences & Realizations

[17:07–21:55]

• At the Queen Mary, Noah has further experiences, including physical evidence, and realizes his sensitivity to emotion may be clairvoyant.

  “It was almost like the end of The Sixth Sense... seeing all these things that I had... It seemed so obvious that it was almost laughable.” (Daniel, 20:03)

• Finds himself “closeted” about these abilities due to social stigma:

  “For years I was closeted, you know, for lack of a better word... once my awareness was opened up, it didn’t stop.” (Daniel, 23:03)

Emotional and Philosophical Framing of the Paranormal

[24:00–30:27]

• Noah frames perception as neurological modeling—what we call “reality” is just sensory data processed internally.
• Argues that the paranormal is information outside our usual bandwidth—comparable to birds sensing magnetism, or children perceiving things adults dismiss.
• “The universe is malleable because you’re literally creating it. It isn’t actually there.” (Daniel, 28:14)

The Trickster Element & Shared Experiences

[24:00–26:13]; [54:45–57:12]

• Daniel is struck by how often the paranormal seems “prankish” or trickster-like, referencing John Keel and Jacques Vallee.
• Interference patterns (audio glitches, etc.) during the episode itself are seen as typical of high-strangeness.

  “When the interference patterns show up... it’s something in the podcast, it’s trying to diffuse, distract, to stop it from happening.” (Duncan, 12:08)

The “Age of Aquarius” and Societal Awakening

[37:57–41:09]

• Both Daniel and those he speaks with sense a “thinning of the veil”—either due to changing global consciousness or because online platforms allow for more open sharing of odd experiences.

  “More and more people seem to be having these kinds of experiences in the last five to 10 years.” (Daniel, 30:27)

Art, Film, and Paranormal Podcasting

[45:47–55:22]

• Daniel discusses SpectreVision Radio—a podcast network focused on the paranormal, featuring scientifically and mystically-minded hosts alike:

  “The notion of Spectrovision Radio is... a collective of different minds who are all examining the nature of reality.” (Daniel, 54:45)

• Daniel’s journey parallels the mission of his company: “...what she taught me was that’s why we make art. It’s quite simply to reassure other people that they’re not alone with their weird feelings.” (Daniel, 50:40)
• Shares an example from the podcast Spooked and a moving letter from an autopsy technician who, inspired by Daniel’s openness, changed her life to embrace her sensitivities. (51:43–53:51)

Notable Guests and Programs (SpectreVision Radio)

[54:48–57:12]

• Highlights include lawyer Danny Sheehan, pushing for UFO disclosure through legal amnesty for officials. Sheehan’s extensive background in political and paranormal cases is recounted, and the importance of “catastrophic disclosure”—meaning catastrophe for the secret keepers, not the public—is discussed.

UFOs, CE5, and Contact Rituals

[61:05–68:05]

• Daniel shares about his frequent orb sightings—and even gives practical tips (using intention, focus, and a Nikon P1000 with 3000mm lens).
• Duncan jokes about never being invited to the “UFO party”—their rapport remains light and irreverent.
• Daniel tells a string of synchronicities involving mantis entities (with a mantis riding along in his car as confirmation), and describes a night where going outside at 3:03 AM led to seeing 15 UFOs. (67:18–72:31)

Magical Hygiene, Gifting, and Receiving*

[75:01–81:10]

• Both describe paranormal phenomena involving small objects (like pennies) manifesting out of nowhere, with Daniel framing them as gifts and not threats.

• “The penny dropping... it’s a gift. It’s not a threat.” (Daniel, 78:23)

• Emphasis on reciprocal respect—“spiritual etiquette”—with unseen beings.

Dangers, Awe, and The “Horror” Misnomer

[94:08–105:50]

• Both discuss how fear doesn’t necessarily mean danger, and the value of awe as a more accurate descriptor than “horror.”
• Daniel distances himself from the horror label:

  “To encounter the otherworldly... it is scary, but that’s just one color. And... scary doesn’t mean dangerous. What I think is a much better word... is awesome... filled with awe.” (Daniel, 103:16)

Upcoming Projects and Final Thoughts

[106:43–110:26]

• Daniel announces:
  • SpectreVision Radio: Go to spectrevisionradio.com for paranormal podcasts.
  • High Strangeness (Comic, ONI Press): Five interlocking stories aiming for the “most accurate representation” of the paranormal in pop culture, debuting October.
  • Rabbit Trap (Film): Releases in September, a film about Celtic fairy lore featuring Dev Patel and Rosie McEwen, focusing on ancient sounds and the fae.
• Duncan publicly nerds out over modular synthesizers and the myth-laden premise of Rabbit Trap:

  “That is so cool, man. And that is so funny. I have so many synthesizers and... sometimes comes out of those things and you’re like, what the...” (Duncan, 110:40)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Early Transformation & Experience

• Daniel [09:26]:
  “Get on the planchette, it starts flying around the board like it defied all reason and frankly, the laws of physics.”
• Daniel [14:42]:
  “We’re in communication with a little girl named Ava who explains she drowned... At the end... we said, is there anything that you’d like us to do? And the answer was the numbers 3, 2, 4... [which is] the room number in the hotel.”

Philosophical Framing & Sensitivity

• Daniel [20:03]:
  “It was almost like the end of Sixth Sense... replaying a tape and seeing all these things.”
• Daniel [28:14]:
  “You’re literally creating [the universe]. It isn’t actually there...”

Community Building

• Daniel [50:40]:
  “That’s why we make art. It’s quite simply to reassure other people that they’re not alone with their weird feelings.”
• Daniel [53:54]:
  “Podcasts are so free... Podcasts have been a great comfort to me when I was trying to find any kind of context for what I was going through.”

The Trickster Element

• Daniel [25:17]:
  “...there is a great, there's an element of humor to a lot of the paranormal. The, the tricks that it plays. Like we, what we just went through, you know, with the constant problems with the sound.”

SpectreVision’s Mission and Projects

• Daniel [109:01]:
  "In September, our film Rabbit Trap opens... about the fae, about the fairies. It's based very, very accurately on Celtic fairy beliefs... Dev Patel, Rosie McEwen are in it... a supernatural film about sound..."
• Daniel [108:08]: "High Strangeness... the most accurate representation of how the paranormal works that has yet existed in popular media."

Awe Over Horror

• Daniel [103:16]:
  “What I think is a much better word to describe the paranormal is awesome... filled with awe. And part of experiencing awe is scary, but it's also powerfully beautiful at the same time.”

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Important Segments & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 03:50–07:27 | Noah’s childhood & first attraction to the paranormal | | 09:26–15:28 | Detailed Stanley Hotel Ouija/ghost story | | 20:03–23:03 | Realization of sensitivity; “closeted” clairvoyance | | 28:14–30:27 | Universe as neurological “modeling”; magic, bandwidth | | 45:47–55:22 | Overview: SpectreVision Radio & impact stories | | 54:48–57:12 | Spotlight: Danny Sheehan and UAP disclosure | | 67:18–72:31 | Mantis synchronicity and desert UFO sightings | | 75:01–81:10 | Paranormal gifting (pennies, rings); etiquette | | 103:16–105:50| Pushback on the "horror" label, discussion of awe | | 106:43–110:26| Upcoming projects: SpectreVision Radio, High Strangeness, Rabbit Trap |

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Tone & Style

• Conversational and playful, with Duncan’s irreverent humor throughout—often riffing on the weirdness and poking fun at both skepticism and belief.
• Candid, with Daniel sharing vulnerability about the stigma and disorientation that comes with becoming an “experiencer.”
• Philosophical: Both hosts ponder consciousness, perception, and the role of story/art.
• Encouraging openness: Threaded throughout is an invitation to listeners to consider what they tune out and why, especially in relation to childhood or repressed experiences.

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Both guests promote an integrationist view—paranormal phenomena are neither aberrant nor shameful, but part of the human experience worthy of exploration and art.
• Daniel Noah’s projects (SpectreVision Radio, High Strangeness, Rabbit Trap) are positioned as vehicles to advance the conversation, share diverse voices, and offer “accurate” representations of high-strange realities.
• The episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the conjunction of paranormal experience, consciousness philosophies, and horror/art as social connection.

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Links & Recommendations:

• SpectreVision Radio
• High Strangeness (ONI Press, October 2025)
• Rabbit Trap (Film, September 2025)

Contact/socials: See episode notes for direct links.

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Transcript

[A]

This episode of the DTFH is amazing. This is why I love podcasting and I give this five sterling stars of glory. Daniel Noah is the co founder of Spectre Vision. Spectre Vision has created some of the coolest movies out there, including Mandy the Color out of Space. And he's brilliant. He's a producer. But not just that. He's an advocate. And he's an advocate for something that I love, people who've experienced the paranormal. Daniel started off as a skeptic, like so many people, and had a series of experiences that led him to rethink his entire way of understanding reality, as many people think reality is. Ghost Encounters, Supernatural Encounters. Began to realize that maybe he was as weird as this might sound. Clairvoyant. And instead of hiding that like so many people do, not everyone jumps on TikTok and starts channeling shit or slangles their pendulum around for likes. Some people feel legitimately uncomfortable with the fact that they've encountered or experienced things that don't fit in to the modernist paradigm. Daniel is not one of those people. And this entire conversation revolves not just around his own personal experiences, but around this seemingly growing number of people who are reporting encounters with the unknown. He's also the director of Spectre Vision Radio. So if conversations like the one you're about to hear or conversations you like, you should check that out. 50 shows dedicated to the subject and he's got a comic book series coming out from ONI Press called High Strangeness. All the links you need to find Daniel Specter Vision or Spectre Vision Radio will be down below, but don't leave just yet. Stay tuned. Get ready. If you're scared of the unknown, get out your crucifixes. If you love hearing stories about ghosts and encountering entities, then take your clothes off and and coach yourself in in whatever you coat yourself in when you're about to summon spirits. Do or don't do any of that. Maybe you're driving, you want to pull over and coat yourself in bull semen, which I am covered in right now. It helps me think. Everyone, please welcome to the dtfh, Daniel Noah. Daniel, welcome to the dtfh. Good to finally have you on the show. For folks who might not be familiar with you, they're definitely familiar with your company, Spectre Vision. You guys have made some of my favorite horror movies, including Color out of Space, Mandy, specifically in love with that film, and a multitude of great scary horror movies. And, you know, just to get going, because I know there's a ton to talk about And I know you guys are doing something that we'll get to, which is, if you ask me, like, cutting edge, groundbreaking, and it's what's happening everywhere. I want to talk about that, but before we get going with that, I wanted to ask how you ended up dedicating your life to making scary shit for us to watch and get freaked out by.

[B]

So I was. I became obsessed with Tales of the Paranormal from a really, really young age. I come from a broken home, as so many do who were born in the 70s. You remember the movie Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice?

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Yeah. So that was my family. So I grew up in a household like that only for the first few years. And so it was moving around a lot, and there are kind of people coming and going.

[A]

Daniel, let me stop you. Here's what's gonna. Here's the choice you have to make.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Your fan is gonna mess up your voice. I'm sorry, man. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. It was us. It was a compressor that Josh didn't know was on. It was like, got it. Everything up. Okay, let's do it again.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Daniel. Welcome to dtfh. My apologies. We just had. We just went through a technological Mercury in retrograde hell trail.

[B]

But doesn't it just seem like Mercury is always in retrograde? It's. When is it not in retrograde?

[A]

I know Mercury is an asshole, and it definitely is real. Of all those things. I believe that, man. I do believe. Do you believe in Mercury in retrograde? Because I really believe it.

[B]

I believe in everything.

[A]

You do believe in everything. I mean, and, you know, for someone making some of my favorite horror movies, one of the co founders of Spectre Vision. Founder. Is that the right word?

[B]

Co founder? Yeah.

[A]

You made Mandy, you made Color out of Space, lots of other great movies. And there's something really great to hear that the person making your favorite horror movies actually believes in the paranormal.

[B]

Yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean, it. Well, it's. As I like to say, it's not a matter of belief. Doesn't matter what I believe. It's real. You know, I used to be. I was a really, really hardcore skeptic, and my relationship to Tales of the Paranormal was entirely through the lens of their value as literature. And. And. And I still feel all those things. I think that Tales of Horror give us an opportunity to kind of practice confronting difficult things, you know, metaphorically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, loss, trauma, cancer. You know, whatever you're afraid of, you can confront it in the form of Freddy Krueger or, you know, or, Or. Or whatever, but I, I didn't believe in any of it. And in fact, I, I maybe was a little bit snooty about it. I. I thought that people who believed that stuff were kind of weak willed and, and, you know, that it was just kind of succumbing to a very basic kind of wish fulfillment. And so when we started Spectre vision in about 2012, you know, when. When you. When you have a horror company, you start getting invited to events that are staged at haunted locations, right? Because, you know, it's fun. So I suddenly found myself touring some of the most haunted places in America. And in 2015, we were at the Stanley Film Festival in Estes Park, Colorado, which is. When you check in, they say, they tell you, I think they claim it's the most haunted structure in the world or something like that. It is famously the hotel that inspired Stephen King to write the Shining.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In there one night with his wife, like, off season. And I'm not sure if he had an experience or what, but it did. It led to the inspiration for the Shining. So. So, you know, we. We did the festival and, and the last night that we were there, you know how it is in festivals. Like, there's this group of people that you only see at festivals. They're like your festival friends. So a bunch of us stayed an extra night and we congregated in a room in the hotel, and somebody had a Ouija board. Now, I. I regarded this as just, you know, kind of like silly, silly child's play, and I was annoyed with it. So we. We did this Ouija board and four people got on and, you know, nothing. Nothing was happening. And then another four people got on and nothing was happening.

[A]

Imagine that somewhere nearby a person's being dismembered by a chainsaw while you talk like, you know, you're not gonna reveal everything about Spectre Vision. But just somewhere a few feet away, there's someone whose last moments are listening to a podcast while being dismembered by Elijah Wood. He's over there. Foot covered in plastic.

[B]

Yeah. The background limiter is drowning out only his screams. I take it you're here.

[A]

We're not. Listen. We're gonna get what we get. Today. Mercury's in retrograde. Listen, friends, if you were looking for some kind of pristine audio, Beatles level recorded in some London studio, it's not gonna happen today. Mercury's in retrograde. And if we keep trying to fix the audio, which I have a feeling you're like Me. We will do that for hours. We will just do it until the sun goes down. We're not going to get a podcast, so please continue. Stanley Hotel. What? Honestly, as a skeptic, you're probably like, all right, I guess. What, are we having a sleepover?

[B]

That's exactly right. Yeah. So we're trying different combinations of people, and then I'm one of the people that gets on, which I think I later understood is significant. I didn't understand at the time. Get on the planchette starts flying around the board like it defied all reason and frankly, the laws of physics. I've never seen.

[A]

Other people's fingers are on it, though.

[B]

Yeah, but you can see that everyone is. They're kind of floating their fingers off, very careful to make sure that they're not unconscious moving it.

[A]

I hate Ouija boards. And that thing you just described is my. Why? Because it's like, dude, I know. I know this can't be real. And then the jerky, weird.

[B]

Have you had it?

[A]

Oh, yeah. And that weird, like, it's. It's like a. A signal coming in and out a little bit. It's. But the intentionality behind it is what. I just don't. I don't like. I. That is a very creepy moment. And anyone who. Who's, like, had success with the Ouija board has had to contend with dealing with whatever that is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This drain saw is making me nuts. Is it? I'm. I should. We just keep going.

[A]

He's got to deal with it, man. At this point, we got to. I. Listen, I've. I've been doing this long enough to know when the podcast gods decide to. So chaos in a podcast, you can go into a hermetically sealed chamber. At this point, you could go into a deep underground military bunker where they keep the telepathic gray aliens to keep their telepathy from affecting the scientists. And you will get a leaf blower. Something will come. We just gotta do it, man. I just know there's no escape from the chaos. When it comes, it comes. And usually it means a good podcast is gonna happen.

[B]

All right, all right, all right. I'm in. As long as you. As long as you're feeling okay about it, then I feel.

[A]

I'm feeling okay.

[B]

All right, so you know that, like, that stuttery, staccato thing that you're describing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

On the. It was not like that. It was. It wasn't tentative. It was extremely deliberate and forceful, and it was. This thing was moving with, like, incredible precision. And force. And I could feel it, like, pulling away from me right in. In ways that no one person could possibly have controlled this thing. Even then, of course I'm rationalizing it. I'm going, there's a helicopter.

[A]

No, let me stop you, because I think it's important because of the topic is the reality of the paranormal.

[B]

You know what? You're making a very, very good point, actually.

[A]

And I just want to point something out. I did say before we started recording that I went through phases of what you're experiencing. Experiencing right now and what you're going to experience because you're running a podcast company. So you're going to go through this. And you know what? I feel honored that I get to explain this to you. I went through phases. I get a phase of grief. And I remember in the beginning thinking, like, there's no way that every time I start podcasting, a leaf blower starts, a weed eater, some kind of gardening equipment chainsaw. I've had that. It's gotta be confirmation, but it's gotta be in my mind. I explained this to you before, and then I just got used to it and realized if I start a podcast, except for now that I've moved to a podcast studio, not like just the ambient background noise. We live in a noisy world. You could be experiencing the most pristine silence in your podcast studio, at your house. Just perfect meditative silence. Hit record. The neighbor decides to start drumming to the point where I have accepted it as a good sign, because when the interference patterns show up, usually, I mean, this is my woo woo idea. It's something in the podcast. It's trying to diffuse, distract, to stop it from happening. And I, I now I'm like, no, you, I'll do this. I don't care if Niagara Falls erupts next to you. If suddenly just an unknown waterfall appears, the rushing of water, people screaming, we carry on. Mr. Noah.

[B]

Okay, all right. Okay. That was a beautiful saint Christmas day speech. All right, so, so, so this thing, this thing is flying around and, And. But even then, Duncan, you know, I'm thinking, like, maybe we're unconsciously moving this. The planchette then started to spin in a circle, which is impossible to, to do, you know, even with your fingers. You can't, you can't do it.

[A]

Even if you practice that. You couldn't, like, if you wanted to shoot, Shoot that scene for a movie. And you're like, okay, guys, we're gonna need you in a subtle way to, to choreograph the spinning of the planchette. In a circle together. So you're gonna have to practice this. You'd have to practice it for a few months to pull that off. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So we're. We're in communication with a little girl named Ava who explains that she drowned in a lake nearby, that her mother let her drown in the lake. And this was a. An interaction that felt like it went on for about 20 minutes, I think later, we realized it had been several hours, which is something that happens when these experiences take place. At the end of. Of it, we said, is there anything that you'd like us to do? And the answer was the numbers 3, 2, 4. And then she was gone. And we realized that 324 was the room number in the hotel.

[A]

Oh, God damn it.

[B]

Yeah. So it's now like 2:30 in the morning, and. And so there were only a few of us left. A lot of people left the room. They were freaked out. They thought that someone was playing a prank. And. And so we went up to room 3, 2, 4, and as we ascended the staircase, there was a couple standing there, and they were having a complete meltdown, and they were incoherent. Finally, they were able to articulate that they had just seen a ghost. Described a figure of a little girl standing in front of room 324. Okay. Now you could say, well, well, the hotel planned this. Those people were actors. You know, they. They. It's good for them to propagate the idea that the hotel's haunted. Sure. Okay. I was. I was titillated by this because there was also a feeling in the room that is very hard to explain. A kind of electrical charge. It's a cellular kind of thing, explaining.

[A]

I know what you're talking about.

[B]

Yeah. So. But even then, I managed to kind of lock this thing away in a cabinet and not really think about it too much. About six months later, we were guests on the Queen Mary, which is because at that time we were developing a film about the Queen Mary. And so the Queen Mary is also purportedly extraordinarily haunted. I'm not going to walk you through the whole thing, but just to say.

[A]

I know about the Queen Mary. I think a lot of people do.

[B]

Yeah. It's very well known. They do publicize it. Had a second experience there, which was even more extreme, terrifying, and walked away this time with evidence, photographs, recordings. I realized something that night, which I realized a couple things. One, I realized that both of these incidents, I'd been with other people, and all of us had seen and Heard the same things, but I was experiencing them in another way that was not felt by the people that I was with. And it's hard to explain it, but it was almost an emotional overwhelm.

[A]

Okay, stop there. Going against everything I just said. Here's what's happening. Wherever you're at is loud as fuck. And your Echo Cancellation is doing an incredible job at cutting out what sounds like a lumber mill being raided.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

By ice. It sounds like you're at a lumber mill that ice is raised.

[B]

What happened was I got really excited because I thought they were done. And then I was like, I'm going to go outside where I'm comfortable. So should I just go back and see relocate?

[A]

Because this is too good to waste, dude. I'm getting creeped out here, and everyone's going to be like, wow, Jesus. If we're going to do a good ghost story, it's not going to happen.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Wherever that is. So let's relocate. And then I'm.

[B]

I'm good on time if you.

[A]

Are you good on time, Josh? Okay, we're good. Got that chainsaw out there. Get that thing out of here. It's a dark totem. Okay, let's roll.

[B]

Unbelievable. Yeah. Okay. All right.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Okay. You got me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is this the. The worst?

[A]

Are you kidding? This is awesome.

[B]

It is. It's like a. There is a narrative.

[A]

If people wanted Larry King, they go to Larry. They wouldn't be on the dtfh. I promise you that. Daniel, Inside the Actor's Studio. You're not getting it here.

[B]

I'm also. I can't help it because I am a filmmaker. I gotta get the light, right. This was not gonna light. Light was kind of up. All right, that's. That's a nice soft light, right?

[A]

That's better.

[B]

Yeah. Okay, sure. That means. No. You just don't want me to tell. Okay, I'm.

[A]

I can't tell because it's coming through the Internet. I don't know what you. Because when it. When whatever the final thing is, whatever you're seeing on your screen, if it looks good, that's what it'll look like.

[B]

It'll be good.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah, continue, please. Okay. All right. Okay. All right. So. Yes.

[A]

Hold on. There's a wild dog in the studio. Get that thing out of here. Josh.

[B]

There's a stray. Oh, you know what? I. I had another idea, too, Doug. I'm gonna just turn this guy on.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Okay. So we have a backup, right? Just in case. All right. Okay. All right. So here's what apparently some entity doesn't want me to say. What I real. What I came to understand, I came to understand a few things. One was that the, the intensity of my skepticism was in direct proportion to the sensitivity that I actually possessed. And that actually this stuff had been happening to me my whole life. And, and I, and it was almost like the end of the Sixth Sense. Going back and replaying a tape and seeing all these things that I had. It seemed so obvious that it was almost laughable things knowing often who was calling when the phone rang. When I was a kid, you know, this is, you know, before call waiting, having a saying goodnight to my grandmother in my head when I was in my house and she was in her house, you know, and, and, and just often knowing how people were feeling despite whatever masks they were wearing. And, and I had walked around in my life calling that empathy, which it is. But there's a certain point at which empathy kind of crosses a line into something else. And, and I, I really, I think a lot of the language that we use for this stuff is a little thorny because it sounds very self aggrandizing and for, for someone like me, who I'm very, you know, I'm a producer, I'm very comfortable being behind the scenes. I always am a little, feel a little funny about some saying, you know, that why I think that I have some clairvoyant abilities and because it's, you know, the, the, the terror is that people will say, well, you're just looking for attention or you know, you're, you're.

[A]

You'Re delusional, you're an X man, come on, that shit's not real. You know, all this stuff, any people who have this thing, which I would call a burden of most people you meet who do have to, I mean, I think you could argue it's a form of neurodivergence that because it doesn't fit into the mainstream's view of how the universe works, it can't be diagnosed. Because to diagnose it is to ruin your reputation as a psychiatrist, psychologist. So this is a kind of problem that people have been having for a long time and even more hidden than a lot of like, you know, forms of neurodivergence that people contend with. You know what I mean? Like you can, you will be.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

More accepted if you tell someone you're bipolar. You know, people are like, God, I'm sorry, you know, I am too, or I know someone who is, I know how hard that is. Then if you Tell someone what you just said, people just will shut you down. And they don't want to hear it.

[B]

Absolutely. They don't. They don't. And for years I was closeted, you know, for lack of a better word, you know, and I, you know, I did kind of, you know, I told a few people, by the way. I should also say that once my awareness was opened up, it didn't stop. It was just absolutely constant. And you know something, after the Queen Mary, something happened in my home. My wife is sensitive like me, and so is my daughter. And I think, like, we all started kind of wrapping our heads around this at the same time.

[A]

Bring a little friend home with you from the Queen Mary, possibly. That's the problem. You got. See, this is the problem because it's like, I don't know if people get, what do they call them? Hitchhikers? I don't know if people get hitchhikers because they're more sensitive or if it's because they're more sensitive. They are aware that the thing is in their house.

[B]

So what I think, for the, the efficacy of this conversation, I've spent the last 10 years aggressively investigating just in my own mind, in my own body and soul, these questions. So I think one of the things that's really hard about this stuff is for all the reasons that we just discussed, it's very difficult to talk about these things as fluidly and openly as one would talk about the sciences. There's always this sort of stigma. So I've made a social contract with myself that I'm going to ignore those feelings and I'm just going to speak about this as though I'm speaking about physics or I'm going to just speak about the things that I believe or know to be true. I'm going to just state them plainly. Part of the problem with this is that a lot of it is so outlandish. And this is what John Keel and Jacques Vallee were often getting at, is this trickster element. In many ways, it feels like we are being punked, and I think we are, by the way, I, I, I think that there is a great, there's an element of humor to a lot of the paranormal. The, the tricks that it plays. Like we, what we just went through, you know, with the constant problems with the sound.

[A]

Energy. It's chaos energy, necessarily. I mean, punk is, is, Punk is benevolent in a certain way, but also it's like, you know, there's a prankster element to it that maybe a better way to put it is it doesn't seem to adhere to social norms when it comes to etiquette of pranks. You know, it's quite often inconvenient and silly, but that can be really disconcerting for folks.

[B]

I have always, although I get scared still when things are happening, there's just a. I've never felt unsafe. These are two different things. And, you know, what I've come to understand is that I think that it's your energy is the energy that you attract. And so I think if you're someone who is coming from a place that's pure and good, you're not at risk of a hitchhiker following you.

[A]

This is why all my ghosts are sexual.

[B]

A little twinkle in your eye when you said that. So what I. So, so, okay, so a few things about this. So. So to speak about it in, you know, in a way that we understand, like, physiologically, right? So. So we. And this all comes back to film and entertainment in a minute, right? When you think about. I'm not saying anything that other people have not said far more articulately than I have. I came to these understandings in a void, you know, and then later realized, oh, a lot of people have come to these same conclusions. You know, these aren't unique ideas, but. But I felt I owned them at the time, if that makes sense. This, this notion that. So I, you know, I. I teach at usc and I do it. There's a thing I do where I put up the Mona Lisa on the screen and I say kind of jokingly, tongue in cheek, extra credit if you can tell me what this is. And everyone laughs and they say, it's the Mona Lisa. And I say, right, okay, additional extra credit. You can tell me where it is. And they say, the Louvre. And then I say no. Then they go, France. And I say no. And they can't understand what I'm getting at. It eventually go, oh, the screen right there. And I say, no. And what I'm saying, leading them to is where it actually is, is it's in their brains, right? It's, it's, you know, the, the light is refracting, it's traveling through the. The eye, the ocular nerve, and that data is being processed. And the brain is quite literally modeling the Mona Lisa. And, and, and in fact, it's also modeling me and it's modeling the room that we're in and the school itself and all of la. And in fact, your mind is modeling the entire universe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. And so when you think about it this way, what you start to Understand is that the universe is, is malleable because you're literally creating it. It isn't actually there. Right, right. And, and so this is why magic doesn't seem so crazy, right? Because what is magic except a manipulation of the model?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And, and, and so, you know, earlier on when I, I said I believe in everything, I, I do, because if anything's possible, then everything is possible. Right? It's, it's the system. It's just simply logical. John Keel said the brain is a receiver and it's generally tuned to a very, a fairly narrow bandwidth. Birds migrate because they perceive the electromagnetic spectrum. What is that like? We don't have any idea what that's like. It's not akin to seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling. It's its own thing that we couldn't possibly comprehend because we don't have that sense. You have to ask, well, what other senses don't we have? How much information is around us that we just simply don't have the capacity to clock that data and pull it into the modeling system that we have inside? This, to me, is the essence of what the paranormal is. Some people, for whatever reason, have a slightly broader bandwidth and in various ways can kind of like scratch at some of that other data. And some, for some people, it's. They see the future and some can read minds and some can move objects. And for me, it's emotion. It's always emotion. It took me a long time to figure that out, but that's. The extra information that I'm receiving is emotional information. Sometimes I think those signals are so strong that anyone, gifted or not, can perceive them. Right. And, and, and in many ways I feel that we are moving into a period where those signals are getting stronger. You know, so, so more and more people seem to be having these kinds of experiences in the last five to 10 years.

[A]

Well, this is sort of, you know, a weird. Something is analogous to. This is, you know, we. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by. Minnesota. Nice. Minnesota Gneiss Ethnobotanicals is your trusted source for high quality, ethically sourced plant medicines, especially Amanita muscaria. Helping folks find calm healing and reconnection without relying on pharmaceuticals. Founded by Christian Rasmussen, who harnessed Amanita to conquer his own benzodiazepine withdrawal. A brutal battle that feels like recovering from brain damage. With endless anxiety, insomnia and nervous system chaos, they're on a mission to share this wisdom. Recovering from benzos or alcohol is no joke. The stress and cravings can derail even the strongest wills, risking relapse without safe support. That's where thousands are turning to Amanita muscaria as a powerful tool in recovery, promoting relaxation, easing tension and fostering peace due to its unique pharmacological activity and our GABA and glutamate receptors. But remember, it's not a magic bullet, friends. True healing needs a full matrix of support. Like therapy, community and lifestyle changes, these plants and fungi are valuable allies in that journey. As the number one supplier of Amanita Muscaria in the U.S. trusted by over 30,000 seekers, Minnesota Nice delivers affordable top tier products that make natural wellness accessible to everyone. Used for centuries in shamanic traditions and even tied to early Christianity as the Christ Mushroom, with ancient depictions of Adam and Eve wrapped in its form, Amanita promotes relaxation, dream enhancement and sleep, making it a game changer for recovery. Ooh, I love it. And when I took it, it wasn't necessarily for Recovery, but wow. Amazing. 41234 Trussell Stars of Glory to Minnesota Nice. This is not the 711 schwill that you'll get. I don't know if you've ever been to some head shop and there's something with a clown on it that says it's Amanita Mascaria. Oh no, no no no. Don't do that. Go to Minnesota Gneiss. You deserve it. Don't take something that looks like John Wayne Gacy painted the label. Minnesota Gneiss provides incredible Amanita muscaria which I have consumed and love. Big fan of the GABA receptors. Minnesota Nice Ethnobotanicals invites you to dive into the world of natural magic. Head to www.mnnicethno.com duncan and use code DUNCAN22 for 22% off your first order. They recommend starting with the Amanita Muscaria capsules. And don't forget to add three to four Blue Lotus gummies for that extra dreamy boost. Most people start there and keep coming back for more. That's www. M nice ethno.com duncan code duncan22 check out the informational content on the site for safe used trips and let the law of Revelation guide you. Much love. Thank you Minnesota Nice. If you listen to my podcast, I'm sorry you know this because I talk about it too much, but we do know that there's like another UMAMA interstellar object moving through our solar system that is non standard. It seems to have light in the front.

[B]

Now it's venting water.

[A]

Apparently venting water Now a lot of the claims made by Avi Loeb have been sort of refuted by various astrophysicists and saying no, you're just, you know, that could, I think what Avi Loeb is anything he's writing about it, he does have the caveat this could just be something, something natural. But why don't we have any preparation for what if it's not? Why as a planet in a universe do we not have some ability to, number one, determine what the fuck the thing is and why it isn't adhering to what we might expect? And two, how do we organize in a way to greet it in whichever way we need to. Now what people are saying is one of the claims that people are making is the odds of Ooma Mumma, another thing from outside our solar system. And this thing coming in such a short span of time between each other when we've never seen it before, it's easy to think, yeah, one of them was a scout, the next one is the mothership or whatever. But then the other way people are saying is actually no, it's our detecting technology is so much better now that we probably are going to start seeing more and more and more of these things because they're always out there. And so when people like you come out of the closet in this regard, the telepathy tapes being another example of gen pop getting a download, then suddenly what happens is people begin to at the very least experiment with the possibility that they might have been tuning out frequencies. It's not a matter of talent, it's not a matter of ability. It's just from the get go, if you are taught this isn't real, even though any kid, if you're ever around a kid under the age of five, dude, they're tuned in and they are, they don't know that that's weird the things that they're seeing and saying. But then over, it's your imagination that's, that's just a dream that didn't happen. Dude, I hear my little girl having full on conversations in her crib at night with something talking.

[B]

My daughter did that too. Laughing, my daughter.

[A]

But then you thought, no, this isn't real. And maybe the extraordinary ability stuff is just like you didn't tune it out, you tried, you went down the path of the skeptic. Which is a fantastic way theoretically to immunize yourself from all that goes along with having to hear stuff that other people aren't hearing, but it didn't work. And your rational mind, that's where Skeptics are perfect candidates for waking up to this reality because you have trained your rational mind to believe what you're seeing and to doubt what you're seeing. But when your mind is trained to that degree and you have the experiences you're talking about, and you're like, there's no fucking way. This is a delusion. Boom. Welcome. Welcome to a whole new world. And, yeah, so I think the. I don't know if the signal's stronger or if it's just that the Internet is letting people share stories like this in a way that it's opening people up to a kind of latent ability.

[B]

That could be. Yeah, that could be. Maybe there's just an opportunity to talk about it more. And so. But. But I do talk to a lot of people who have sensitivities, who all feel that there is something changing. And. And. And, you know, we are entering the age of Aquarius, that there's something happening, there's something changing. The veil is thinning in some way. And. And, you know, if you look at the grand timeline of humanity, this moment that we're in is the aberration, you know, when. When. When spirituality is quite literally paved over, we pave over nature, literally. That was our great idea. I was like, well, let's put cement over all the grass and the earth, right? You know, and I think that's very. It's very telling about how we. What is, Nate? What is spirituality but nature? It's an extension of nature. And, you know, I. You know, I'm very lucky. Like, we live in the hills, and I lived in cities my whole life. The forest is, like, terrifying to me. And now we actually live up against some woods, and. And I go out there and I hear in the woods at night, and to me, I'm like, if that's a coyote or a. Like a demon, it's all nature, right? It's all alien to me. I just, you know, so. But I do, you know, I do. I do think that there is a chance that we're all kind of waking up. And I. And I. And I think that. I mean, that was one of the things we were texting about the other day when I was saying that, you know, when we were contemplating, like, gosh, what if we really are here for the end? What if this is the apocalypse coming? And. And, you know. And, you know, I was saying, you know, that I had had this thought, and maybe this is. You want to talk about video games? But is like, what. What if. What if are all of. What's happening here is we're all being spawned into an apocalypse scenario every few years. Oh yeah, and it's on a loop and it's like it's some sort of a, it's some sort of a school or it's a training ground or, you know.

[A]

Well, if there's reincarnation, if you believe in some sort of return, then regardless of global collapse, regardless of meteor impact, regardless of singularity, AI induced apocalypse, you are, your vessel that you're moving around in is in the end times because you are going to die. As long as you're immortal, you live in an apocalypse. And if there's reincarnation into another mortal vehicle, then that means that we are perpetually apocalyptizing. We are perpetually having to contend with the end of everything. Add to what you said about the subjective mind being the sort of the, the, the mirror of reality that we call the human realm, then every memory, every preference, every idea of how things are or not upon your expiration, bye bye, it's gone, baby, gone. And that is the apocalypse.

[B]

It's totally. I love the. You said that. Because I think about that all the time. Because I turned 50 a few years ago and I, and I, and I, you know, I couldn't help it. Like the, the minute I crested the hill, I started feeling like I could see the end. Right. And processing it and preparing a little bit and, and, and, and, and I, I have had the thought like, is, is my apocalyptic feeling just about my own death or is it, am I actually picking up on some global event? You know. Well, to bring this up. Sorry, go.

[A]

Yeah, you know, both are possible.

[B]

Certainly if the second one happens, the first one is, look, if you're mortal.

[A]

I mean, some generation is going to get to experience the double delight of having to deal with their own body getting old and also watching the world around them disintegrate. And so yeah, it could be. And yeah, I don't know. But I definitely agree with you. I do think something's happening that is non standard. And by that I don't know about the hippie global awakening consciousness stuff though I do play around with the idea. But certainly you can look in the technological world, you can look at the geopolitical landscape, you can look at just all that's happening and you would have to be the pandemic, the UAP revelations. You would have to be a buffoon to look at all of these events that are rising together and not say something's going on. What is happening. This is absolutely anomalous it's not any one event. Oligarch, pedophiles, okay. Everything else fine. But, yeah, I guess some weird elite have been trafficking kids for a while and they're involved. Okay, fine. You know what? I don't even know if that's anomalous. You can look back at Bathory, you can look back at a history of power, sadly has within it some form of human rights abuse in an egregious way. But then you add to that UAP disclosure. Then you add to that the rise of cryptocurrency, the general growing global mistrust for fiat currency. Then you add to that the geopolitical landscape, the ominous. You know what? Maybe, you know, it's not nuclear weapons, it's tactical nuclear weapons. The kind of game of footsie that the military industrial complex is playing with. It's tactical nukes. The old nukes, they were kind of sloppy. These are tactical, so it's a little different. Maybe we could use the nukes. And then you add to that the accessibility of technology that probably should be regulated, but isn't being regulated because it's regulated. Then the AI arms race, you're going to lose it to the unregulated AI. And then you add to that the relationships people are developing with a non human intelligence, the psychosis related to AI. And then you add to that any number of the other bizarre things that are happening and all together, together. When you look at that, you have to admit something's bubbling. The cauldron's bubbling a little bit right now. And that's for real. I don't even think you have to have some kind of Christian, Hindu sense of some eschatological sense. I think you just look at what's going on and definitely the scene is being set for something real weird.

[B]

Real feels that way. It feels that way. You know, I practice in my head all the time. There could be a day when we all walk outside and the sky is filled with flying saucers. It could happen. And then it could happen in a month.

[A]

And you're gonna be annoyed. I'm gonna be annoyed. I think my first response will be, holy shit. And then I'm like, God damn it. I wanted to do a podcast today. You know what?

[B]

Just going to be like that.

[A]

We're still human. A great UFO traffic. Now I'm going to be late to my therapist. So. So this, I think, is a perfect setup for what you're up to. And. And it's something that, you know, setting the ground for it definitely, like, shows why? It's the perfect time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For podcast network dedicated to the paranormal. What a perfect time for it. Something to chart, track, map, report in on, speculate on all this growing data regarding the weird shit happening in the world, man. And not only that, but just the media landscape. We should have thrown that into the things that are changing the. What they're calling legacy media used to be like. Used to be just everything. Movies, tv, late night TV news, the way we get our news, all of it falling apart, demonetized, no more money. You suddenly these like, these, these powerful conglomerates are competing with a fucking hawk. To a girl who, you know, just turns on a fucking camera and like makes infinitely more than any of the late night shows. And so the, the you. It seems like Spectra Vision is ahead of its time or right on time, I guess you could say, in recognizing like the Internet is the new movie screen. The Internet is the combination of movies, TVs, TV, everything. And so y' all have created, are creating a. Correct me if I'm wrong here, like sort of like high level, high quality video podcasts that are thematically about the paranormal.

[B]

Yeah, I mean it's two parallel ideas, but I think we'll talk about the video part in a second. But the notion of a podcast network that's entirely devoted to esoteric and you know, philosophical questions about the nature of reality, I. E. Paranormal. Right. It's, I think what, what just to bring it a little bit back to my narrative and then we'll pick it up with the podcast network. Is that the, the next thing that happened for me. So after I kind of came out, I did the show Spooked. You know that show, the podcast Spooked. It's Glenn White, It's a, it's a big listener story, ghost story thing. And I, and I. It's a long story, but I ended up doing that. I said it was like my, I came out as an experiencer. And what I found was that actually given my identity as the co founder of Spectra Vision wasn't met with a lot of resistance. Right. It was. I was already kind of in that world and. And so as I started really getting my nose into a lot of research and you know, theoretical writings about what the paranormal is like I said, you know, Charles Ford and John Keel and you know, Linda Moulton Howe, et cetera, et cetera, I started to realize that as the guy who more or less had been running development for Spectre Vision and you know, had a. I mean we all do everything together, but that I had Somehow been a part of bringing all these films to life that were really accurate portrayals of the paranormal in ways that were kind of unusual. And so that, to me, itself almost felt like a supernatural occurrence. Like where. Where.

[A]

Like, where did.

[B]

How did that happen? And, and, and so. So. So the next thing was the. I'm going to tell you two quick stories. Great one's, about Mandy. So back before all this paranormal stuff started, we had just completed a screening at Fantastic Fest. I don't remember what the movie was. You know, you do. You do the Q and A, and then there's like these concentric circles of social interaction, you know, versus, like, you know, fans with questions. And then it's your friends and then it's your agents and that. And then you're off work, right? So I. I'm walking through the lobby, and I feel this little tug on my. My jacket. And I turn around, and there's this young woman, emo. Very awkward, and she can't even make eye contact. And she says, I just wanted to tell you Mandy is my favorite movie. And she started to leave, and I stopped her, and I, I. Because I'd been hearing that a lot, and it. And it was beautiful, but it was a little unexpected. And, And. And I said, do you mind if I ask you why it's your favorite movie? And I watched her kind of like go inside and root around for an answer. And she came back up and she said something that was so simple and so beautiful and in some ways, so obvious, but I needed to hear it. She said, I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

[A]

Ah, yeah. So cool.

[B]

I still get a little emotional when I say it, because just I realized, oh, right, you know, Panos. I watched the whole. We all watched his process. He reaches inside and he. And he. He depicts what he sees in there. And. And this is what the great artists do. They're. They're, you know, all. All artists start out as mimics. You know, we mimic the stuff that we like. If we're. If we're a painter, we copy Matisse. If you're a comedian, you do, you know, you do Richard Pryor and that. And what you're doing is, you know, you're building your skills. Eventually, the mimicry is your own interior world. That's what you're mimicking, right? And so, so what she taught me was that's why we make art. It's quite simply to reassure other people that they're not alone with their weird feelings. It's. It's. And That's a beautiful and positive of thing. After I did spooked and talked about my paranormal experiences, which was terrifying by the way, I got a note from a young woman named Jessica who was an autopsy technician.

[A]

Oh God, yeah.

[B]

In Mount Shasta of all places. Yeah. Well, it certainly was for her because she was often experiencing the emotional circumstances of the deaths of the people and it was incredibly overwhelming to her. There was a time when she saw a man hanging by his neck from the rafters and there were a couple of times when I think she even felt like she could contribute to solving a murder. But she had been keeping it all hidden. And in many ways I think it contextualized it as psychosis. And the note that I got from her essentially said in paraphrasing and said, I. It's so easy to dismiss people who talk about this stuff publicly for seeking attention. Right. She said, but one but you because, you know, to her, you know, I'm Hollywood, which, you know, I mean, I get that it's I'm just a guy, but I, you know, it's, you know, I'm Elijah, what's partner. From her perspective, she's essentially, you're someone who only could lose from talking about this. And she was so inspired. She had quit her job and was going to rededicate herself to understanding her gift, how to apply it to make the world a better place, and lives in LA now and has in fact done that. And so I tell you these two stories because they're to me that is describing the same event. Right. And so what I realized was that I already am part owner of this company that is in this world of depicting the paranormal. And it would just be like an extra step to say, well, we're now expanding into non fiction and that what we might be able to do to contribute to the culture is normalize these conversations a little bit because we don't come from the world of woo, you know, I'm not wearing crystals. I can't, you know. And by the way, I love all that stuff. I have crystals. But there's like a cultural dress up that a lot of people just reject. They just won't take it seriously.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So all of that led to the podcast network, which is, you know, podcasts are so free. It's the only place where you can have a conversation like this for several hours without being edited. And there's no Viacom telling you what you can or can't say. And podcasts have been a great comfort to me when I was trying to find Any kind of context for what I was going through. So the notion of Spectrovision Radio is. It's a collective of different minds who are all examining the nature of reality in some way. Very diverse lineup of people who come from different cultures and belief systems and, and disciplines. Some are approaching it more mystically, some more scientifically. Some, you know, are just. Just straight up, like, you know, I'm a ghost hunter. I'm. Others are folklorists, but it's what everyone has in common.

[A]

How are you starting off with.

[B]

Well, we've been around for a year, but, but today we unveiled. We have currently have 50 shows, which is, I know, mind boggling, but all of them are different and they're very carefully curated. They're very carefully selected to be a bunch of dots that are 55. Zero. Yeah. And. And so some are focused on just very. The paranormal in a very strict way. Some are more. Again, more mystical. Some are. Have a little bit of a religious bent to them. There are several that are very serious hardcore investigations of the UAP phenomenon. Danny Sheehan, who you should absolutely have on the show, he's a genius. You know, he. He has a show with us. And by the way, you know, he, you know, he has the New Paradigm Institute. Danny is a. Is probably. He's one of our celebrity attorneys. I mean, in fact, he was a student of Dershowitz, who, you know, maybe we don't like so much anymore. But, but he, you know, he. He was. As a student, he helped break the Pentagon Papers. His first. One of his first worst cases out of law school was the Kennedy assassination. He was investigating the kid. I mean, this guy, you know, he, he Silkwood, that movie was based on his case around Contra. I mean, this guy's like the Forrest Gump of major political events. What he, what he's only really revealed in the last few years is that all throughout all of this, the thing he was the most interested in was the UAP problem.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because really early on, John Mapp retained him as his attorney to defend him when Harvard was trying to boot him out because he was writing papers about the abduction experience.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Danny was his lawyer. So Danny started getting access to all this information and going, holy, this is real. I mean, he's, you know, he's seen the evidence. He's, you know, he's looked at it with his eye. And, and, and his response to that was to say there are profound legal questions associated with this. You know, and because he's a lawyer, he started the New Paradigm Institute, which is based out of D.C. and his thing, you know, he works very closely with Congress. He's like. He's pushing for disclosure through legal channels. And it's fascinating to watch. It's like a centimeter every day is, you know, just. Is just a little bit closer. It's like. Like cornering them into a place where they legally have to disclose. And he believes it's coming soon.

[A]

This is the right rise of the amnesty idea. The idea is this is an angle of the UAP thing that I never even thought of. You know, you think the reason they're not revealing it is not as mundane is because they don't want to get fucking lawsuits, which is apparently what it is. That when you realize it's beyond lawsuits, jail time. When you realize that, it's really just people saving their own asses, you know, you like, they think we're not ready for it. They're trying to protect. Protect us. They don't want global uprisings. No, it's not that at all. They're gonna get their asses sued into fucking oblivion for this shit. And they know it. And so of course they're not gonna disclose because they don't wanna go to jail. And the idea is, let's give them amnesty. What happens if we create blanket amnesty for everybody? Okay, whatever you concealed alien corpse. Okay, you made a treaty with the gray aliens that they could abduct humans in exchange for technology. O would rather you not go to jail if it means we get to live in a universe populated by things we've all intuited, experienced, encountered, and read about, you know, living the truth. It's science. It's just that it's the general right direction, the trajectory you want humanity to be on. And so that's. Yeah, I do. You know, that's a huge part of what we were talking about earlier is that.

[B]

And that's what they mean by the term catastrophic disclosure. We always assume that means it's catastrophic to society. No, no, it's catastrophic to the people, to the secret keepers. You know, I mean, the other thing which, you know, I think it's. It's. It's been said a lot. I'm not, you know, saying anything that hasn't already been out there, but is, is that, you know, there are these black programs and. And, you know, so if you. If you imagine that you are a major defense contractor who has had these deals where you are licensing alien tech that you have exclusive propriety over, and all of a sudden they're in 2025, somebody comes along and Says we're just really. It's open source now. They're like, dudes, I've spent a trillion dollars in the last 50 years. Like, you can't just. This is mine, right?

[A]

Do you know how many telepaths it took us to figure out how to turn this UFO engine into a microwave? You know, how many nosebleeds. Do you know? Many eyeballs shot out as they tried to open up the first layer of the seven layer doom box, as it came to be called. Do you know? Oh, great, so now everybody's going to have our kind of microwave.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Dude, it's wild. That, that, it's wild.

[B]

They're really practical problems. They're far more mundane than you would.

[A]

So mundane. They're so self interest. There's none of this. People go insane in the streets. No, it's like, motherfucker, I patented that shit. And no, it wouldn't. From what I've heard, reverse reverse engineering alien technology is apparently not that easy. Like, though there is the argument that the, the UFO wreckage, as they call it, is actually not wreckage, but donations. It's donations, right? Yeah, but also built into the donation seems to be a lot of firewalls. This stuff apparently incinerates by itself. It doesn't seem to want to be decoded, which flies in the face of the like, donation version of the story. I think it's just some of them are shitty pilots. Like, some of them are just not. They're just not good at flying a ufo. I mean, that's very possible.

[B]

Well, I think it's important, important to remember that it's like when talking about say, you know, ghosts or any kind of unseen entities and sometimes because I've had so many of these experiences and, and, and I also, I think because, you know, we've Talked, I see UFOs constantly and yeah, for whatever reason, there's.

[A]

Some people who see orbs more than others. For some reason.

[B]

Well, it's orbs for me. Yeah, it's mostly orbs. I have, I had a couple crafts, but it's almost overwhelmingly orbs. And they let me take their picture for some reason. I don't know why, but I have lots of pictures and videos.

[A]

I mean, you're, you're a producer. I mean, I think, I literally think.

[B]

That'S what it is.

[A]

There's a kind of like, efficacy, you know, it makes sense. Kind of smart. It's like.

[B]

Yeah, I know, yeah, like, oh, he's a media guy. Let's let him, let him let some.

[A]

Dick With a iPhone. Film us when, like, it's gonna be all blurry. They're not going to have the right.

[B]

So I got this. This baby right here happens to be right in front of me.

[A]

But what is it?

[B]

It's the Nikon P1000 and it has a 3000 millimeter lens on it. So this thing. Let's see if I can actually extend it right now.

[A]

I just said, holy shit. Like, I know what that means. I gotta admit it.

[B]

I mean, a normal zoom lens is. It's not, you know, it's not super. Why isn't this coming out? A normal zoom lens doesn't go, you know, look at that thing. It's a telescope, essentially. Wow. I. I've gotten some crazy pictures of things in the sky with this thing. Things that, you know, you start. You start to realize, oh, there's a cut. There's a couple reasons why we don't capture UFO. We don't see and capture UFOs more often. One, no one's looking, right.

[A]

We gave up.

[B]

I'm constantly looking up. Everyone's like, what are you looking at? I go, what? I'm just checking in.

[A]

You got me looking up. When we got to become friends, I went through many a night going out into my mosquito ridden backyard because did you see anything looking up? No, I didn't.

[B]

But next time I'm in Austin, next time I'm in or you're in LA, it. I mean, so you know this like CE5 thing. I. It. Whatever. You could. The basis of all magic is just simply focused intention. You can do it by chanting, you can do it with ritual, you can do it with it. But you know what I have found is like, if I just sit in my yard and I just focus my attention really hard on like sending up an invitation, 50% of the time, something crazy shows up, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah.

[A]

You know what you're like, some people are with me. Let me. Let me tell you what you just did. You did the UFO version of. Yeah. You know, when I throw a party, lots of people show up. I don't know why no one comes to your shitty parties. Yeah. I don't know, it's weird. Maybe it's your invitation. Maybe you need to write a better invitation. No, it's because people don't like me and the orbs don't like me. And I get it. Like, I understand. And honestly, maybe they're compassionate because I would. One part of me absolutely would love nothing more than to finally see one of these beautiful pulsing balls of Light would love nothing more. But there is another part of me that the times I have had experiences like what you just described. I did not like it. Like what I was saying earlier, like, scary. It's scary, scary, man. And like, ghost encounters. The times I've. I've, you know, felt that tightening of the air and the presence, and then God help me if, like, actually something moves or something. And the difference between, like, something in that space moving a little bit and something just randomly falling. There's a world of difference between those two.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

One is just like whatever your fucking remote control fell off the table. Who knows? The other is. It's a communication or it's just, hey, hi. Oh, I don't know why, but it really. It feels so ominous to me. And that's something 100%.

[B]

I struggle with this all the time. I have never had. Well, I think I'm at a. I think I'm a little desensitized to the lights in the sky. I don't get scared anymore. And they're also so far away. But. But when something's happening, like, on the ground, whether, you know and, you know, what is it. I don't even know if I believe in ghosts anymore. Honestly. I, like, I believe in the experience that we call ghosts, but I. I'm very suspicious of what they actually are. But, you know, ghosts, you know, some kind of, you know, entities. Anything on the ground, believe it or not, have even had a Bigfoot experience, which I know sounds. That was when I went, okay, anything's. Anything's possible.

[A]

Doesn't sound weird.

[B]

Anything's possible. Like, like it's. Is. So when it's happening on the ground, I am. My whole body is just flush with fear. Like I've turned to gelatin. And I'm trying to practice. You know, Whitley Strieber wrote about this beautifully in Communion, about how, you know, he would force himself to go to this area in the woods every night because he was so overcome with fear that he, he was like, what am I missing? That. So he would, you know, he would go into this spot. So, you know, I, I'm not going to go through the whole thing right now. I, I think we've Talked about my 303 thing, but I, it, you know, I wake up at 303 often. I mean, and, and, and it came through. Long story that I'll tell you another time because it'll take an hour. But I, like, the 303 thing kept happening and I, and event. I kept pulling the thread and I eventually realized that 303 was actually leading me to an understanding about possibly having a relationship with, like, that, you know, possibly having been a contactee or an abductee. And. And so I, you know, I recently, I've started realizing, you know, when I wake up at 3:03, I often am feeling a pull to go outside, but I'm scared and I'm also tired. Right, right. This is a wild story.

[A]

So that is an inconvenient time.

[B]

It's a very inconvenient time because then you're not going back to sleep if you get up and go outside. But. So we, we went out to contact Ariel, my wife, and I went to contact in the desert this year. And. And I was in the middle of working on High Strangeness, the comic book series, which I want to talk to you about too. But. And I was right in the middle of kind of working on the fifth story, which I knew I wanted to involve mantis beings. So I had been reading a lot about mantis beings, and I had been. And so we're driving out to the desert, to Palm Springs, and I say, hey, do you mind if we listen to podcasts about mantis beings?

[A]

Like, I'm talking about, like, weirdly, people on Ayahuasca report having these jeweled mantis creatures.

[B]

Yeah, they're humanoid, they have the head of a mantis. And people often describe them as being, like, at the top, like, hierarchically advanced. Like, they're, they seem to be ordering everyone around. They're very benevolent. Yeah, that, you know. So we're, again, I've just been in mantis land. We're driving, we're. We're listening to a podcast about mantis beings. Something drops out of. From behind the sun visor onto the. It's the praying mantis, which I have never seen a praying. I'm 53. I've never seen a praying mantis anywhere, let alone in my car. Right. So we're both looking at this thing going, what? This is ungnorable. Right. It's impossible. So this little guy gets on the dash, it rides for two hours all the way out to Palm Springs with us, and then we open the door and it's like, goes on. It's a. We dropped it off at the Hyatt. Yeah. So, so that night, that night I Woke up at 3:03. We're getting. The next day we're going to contact in the desert. You know, it's like UFO mania. I think, okay, I'm gonna go outside. Like, I've never done it before. Right it this. We're staying at this resort. It's. There's people everywhere. This isn't a creepy, isolated location, but we happen to be like right on the edge of a golf course. And we're on the ground floor. It's the easiest thing in the world. I can just slide the door open and go 10ft and I'm outside, right? So I get up, put my pants on, I go outside.

[A]

This is an ad by Better Help Friends. You've heard me ramble about this on the podcast BetterHelp. I know this isn't exactly on the script. I'm gonna say it. I'm sorry if you don't want me to forgive me in advance, but I'm hearing people using Chat GPT as a therapist. That's terrifying. I'm not saying you shouldn't use it as a digital pseudo friend or something like that, but the problem is, the fact that people think an LLM can be a therapist indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of what a therapist is. And for me, therapists have changed my life for the better. And they didn't change it by doing what ChatGPT does, which is just seemingly tell you what you want to hear, reframing what you say to it in a kind of sweet way. No, they're more akin to dentists. They get in there. Or they give you the courage to get in to the dark crevices of your psyche where there might be some chewed up bits of memory steak giving you bad breaths in the form of rotten dreams. Now that's my own personal experience, and BetterHelp did not tell me to say that. Let me reiterate, that came from me, not BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. It's convenient, too. You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. Plus, you can switch therapists at any time. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with Better Help our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] Duncan that's betterhelp.com Duncan thank you, BetterHelp.

[B]

I kid you not, Duncan. I saw 15 UFOs. It got to the point where I was like, I have to go to bed. I can't, I, I can't stay up anymore. Like I15 over the mountain range.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I, I, I, I, I can't remember why, why I told you this story. It was part of something.

[A]

You know what triggered to me. I, this is a quick story, but this is like, this is like before when I was still in my skeptical phase and doing what. Many skeptics get themselves in trouble doing this shit because you think your skepticism will shield you. You're outside the rules that like anyone who has any sense of this stuff, there's rules, there's a kind of hygiene, I guess you could say, regarding how you might want to sort of interact with this reality. And I'd gotten a grimoire and a real, like a good grimoire. I don't even know where the fuck I got my hands on this thing. But like a grimoire, Grimoire. And I don't think I'd ever had like a real like. And I don't mean like the black pullet or some antiquated thing. This was, I wish I could remember the name of it. Well written, well written book on practicing magic, how to do it. Not cheesy, like fucking, I don't know, Barnes and Noble bullshit. It felt like had been written by someone at Miskatonic University or something. And so I'm, I'm, you know, just reading, looking at one of these rituals and you know, I start, you know, not the. As anyone who practices magic knows, he's. There isn't an easy. As far as I'm aware, there's not really like a very easy ritual, like a real ritual. There's a kind of like, I don't know, it reminds me of like if you wanted to. Like anyone who's taken LSD is one that made is wanted to make lst.

[B]

And then you're, it's like, it's like playing Elden Ring. You're like, to unlock this skill, I've got to unlock these seven other skills first. And he, yeah, yeah, you gotta go.

[A]

Back, baby, you gotta. And then like Crowley says that too. It's like, dude, you've gotta learn yoga, you've got to learn meditation, you've got to learn Latin, you've got to read 50 other books before. So all that being said, I'm in my shitty comedian's apartment in West Hollywood with this grimoire and I start reading something out of it. Just, I don't think anything's gonna happen. I'm just reading it. There's that feeling in the air. I think that Might have been my first time I'd ever really felt that before. And then everyone go ahead and judge me. This happened. I hear this thump. Now, what I heard. I went over to where the sound was coming from. Where the sound came from. Just a thump. Something landing on my carpet. A fucking penny had fallen out of the ceiling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nothing around. We're talking ceiling carpet. And you know, as a parent, if you know the sound of something landing on the ground. Because like, if you're opening Tylenol or something, you almost get a sonar. If you drop a Tylenol for where the fucking thing bounces to. To get. Cause you don't want your kid to eat adult medicine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It was like outside of me reading the grimoire, if that had happened, it still would have freaked me out.

[B]

Because it's a common thing. It's happened to my wife. Pennies. It was dropping out of the sky.

[A]

What the fuck? Dude? It was awful. And I shut that fucking grimoire. I gave it away like an asshole. You probably shouldn't give away a curse book. But I'm like, you take this thing. I do not want whatever that is.

[B]

It's not. Here's the thing you don't like again, these. That feeling you're describing, which I love that you're just talking about this because it's. It's. There aren't words in the English language to describe that feeling. I'm always. But the best I can do is to say it kind of feels like there's a pressure. Like a pressure building. It's. It's not atmospheric. It's just. It's impossible to explain what it is.

[A]

Stand in front of, like, you know. Here's how you. Maybe a good description if you've ever been to a good rave and you're standing in front of a high tech.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bass speaker.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Take that feeling of compression. Freeze it. You know what I mean?

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

And that's what it feels like.

[B]

It's. Because it is like. It's a. It's an Uber silence. It's an Uber. It feels like time stands still.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's. You know, the crickets stop, the wind stop. Like everything just goes. And you go.

[A]

Listen now. You listen. It's the sound of listening. It's the sound of a good. It's. It's just. It's a soundless sound. So cool that we both can relate describing this very, very, very obscure experience. But I got. I'm sorry, I gotta stop you and go reverse the tape a little bit here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because I've never. I've rarely tell that story, only told a few times. And I've certainly never heard that coins falling out of the air is common.

[B]

It's common.

[A]

What the fuck, man? You can't just say that and then zip past that, man. Because, like, it's a thing where. It's something I've literally suppressed until you told that story, and then it just popped into my head because that's the other quality of these experiences. It's much like dreams. You know, you will have them and then you forget because you just. It doesn't fit into any kind of category in your brain. You don't have any penny.

[B]

I don't. I just know that it happens to my wife somewhat regularly and, and I've talked to other, like, paranormal researchers about it. It's a common phenomenon. The, the. The penny dropping. It's always a penny dropping out of nowhere. It's very weird. But what, but what. What I was saying, I actually was going to speak about the penny when I was describing that tent. That feeling of tension is that is. It gets back to this idea that there's. When the paranormal is happening, we are just flooded with fear. It's an instinctual thing, but that doesn't mean it's dangerous.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Okay. Those are two different things. And, and that. The what? I think it's good to contextualize the penny. It's a gift. It's. It's not a threat. It's a gift. And, and so, you know, this gifting is a huge thing with the unseen world. You know, there's a place here in the canyon that I won't say what. It's like a secret here in Laurel Canyon. There's a place that, if you know about it, there's this beautiful altar up in this very obscure spot at the top of the hills. And I go up there all the time and, and, And I bring gifts. You know, it's. And you know, I brought coins, I brought apples. I brought some. You know, I'll bring like a little flag or a matchbook or a toy or something.

[A]

Trump flag?

[B]

Sure, why not? It's not, not my. It's not up to me to decide. It's politics. And sometimes, you know, I get gifts back. I mean, you know, I was up there a few weeks ago and, and, and a little. I don't even know what it is. Like, there's like a little hard fruit that grows on the tree and, and, and it, it just dropped on me and I, And I went, oh. And I looked up and like, it. I wasn't under one of those trees. And then I looked around, and I felt like there. The tree was like, 100ft away. And, you know, and. And so, you know. So this. This ring right here, this is my second one of these rings. So. So I am. I was doing some work out in front of our house. I was just doing yard work, and. And I had lost some weight. Put it back. But. But, like, I. I was, like, reaching into this detritus, and I wasn't. And I felt my ring fly off, like, pull up with all this just gross. Like, you know, and. And I looked down. I'm like, there's just a mountain of, like, dirty leaves, and I'm never gonna find this. Like, it's gone. Like, you know, it's. And I've had it for years, and I felt really sad about it. And so I cleaned up all that yard waste. It wasn't even, like, directly in front of the house. It was. I got a new ring. Months go by. Months. I'm out on the deck. I look over on the rail, and there's the ring. It's sitting on the railing, like, perfectly centered in the railing. And I went into my wife and I said, oh, you found my ring. And she said, I saw that, too. I assumed you put that there.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

And I. So the ring is now, you know, up in an altar in our hearts. Because, you know, that was a gift. It was. They said to you, hey, we found your ring. You know, so I. I think those little objects are really positive things. I think they're. I think it's a. I think it's an act of friendship. It's not a threat. And again, so it's so important to separate the innate fear from legitimate danger. They're not necessarily the same thing.

[A]

This is why I think there's. When I mentioned some kind of magical hygiene. I think that's why. Because the idea is maybe before you start invoking this or that or dive into that place, really make sure that you're going to be able to receive whatever that energy is in a polite way. Because, you know, when I shave my head, I remember, like, my kids would walking down the hall, my kid didn't know I was behind him. He'd turn and look and say, fuck. You know what I mean? He's like, I'm your dad.

[B]

Not anymore.

[A]

He didn't say fuck, but, like, you know. But similarly, like, you know, it is somewhat rude to theoretically invite something you have no idea what you're inviting. It shows up In a kind of sweet way. Honestly, Penny, maybe kind of look at inflation. That might have meant something back in the 1800s, man. How about some silver dollars, huh? But still, to, like, make a cute little hello and then to be met with. I'm throwing this book away. It's like, what the fuck? Do I need to put on deodorant? You called me. It's like when I call my wife and I talk for a few seconds. I gotta go. She's like, you called me. What do you do? What? What? So that. That's the high school kind of spiritual etiquette, that if you. If you are going to start working with those energies, don't. Well, it's a weird way to describe it. Don't dehumanize them, though. They're theoretical. It's true.

[B]

It's. It's 100% true. And. And you can talk. You know, you can. You feel like a lunatic, but, you know, like, you can talk to them, you know, when we moved into this house a couple years ago, we both immediately clocked that it was haunted. And. And I remember the fir. Like we had just taken the house and there was no furniture. And I. And I come to. Like, I don't remember. Like, I. There was some reason I was here by myself and we hadn't moved anything in, and I found myself, without even realizing it, talking to them. And I. I was. I said, you know, hey, you know, my name's Daniel. Because the house had been empty for a while. I said, you know, I know you've been here alone. My family's moving in. You. You're welcome to stay. I just. But, you know, we do have to live together. We're gonna have to live together. And like, you know, and then. And I heard what I was saying, it just. It wasn't something I sat down and decided to do. It just. But it's. You know, And. And so this actually gets back to loose end from earlier, which. And it does have to do with, I think me wanting to challenge this notion that it's all scary is that the. The quality of different unseen entities is as varied as people. And I think, you know, what you were saying about UFOs, you know, I think it's even. UFOs are. They're. They're all different kinds. Some are orbs, some are physical metal craft. Some, you know, some, I think probably are only. The craft are only operated operatable with telepathy. Others probably have poles and levers. Like, it's. You know, we. We tend to think that you know, like a, A category of something paranormal is like, there's just one kind, right? But it's, you know, I, I can tell you that just the. I've lost track of. I wish I'd been better about keeping notes on this stuff. It's too late. Like I did. So I've lost track of. But, but, you know, sometimes it feels positive and sometimes it's. It's negative. And, you know, I mean, you know, Ariel and I once were out in the desert and we, you know, we were. We were on mushrooms and we. When we compared notes, hours later, we had both been dealing with the same dude separately. And he was not cool, this guy. Like, he, like, he, like, no question it was the same guy.

[A]

Sure. They're not, it's like they're not all sweet. They're not all evil. No, dude, I mean, look, if, like this is on the Internet, but I'll summarize. Mushrooms, Penis envy mushrooms. Two bunch palms in the desert. It's a vortex. It's an amplifier. And look up in a tree. And you know, man, I'd been taking psychedelics my whole life and like, you know, you hear people. I saw dragon on lsd. It's like, yeah, you do. You didn't see a dragon. Walls melt, shit moves like, you know. But a dragon, like, I look up in a fucking tree, and in that tree the sun is setting, is a gnome. Now, dude, I am. This is another thing. Talk about. Like, this is something I. Even though I. There's. I've said it online, I still feel dumb saying it. And I'm. I. So I do my technique. This is a great technique, really advanced for when I see something on psychedelics, I don't want to see. Look away. When I look back, it won't be there anymore. Look back, there's that fucking creature. It's a gnome. And it's not like kind of, oh, I see gnomes. It's sort of gnome like, it, the whole thing, the hat, the thing, the clothes. So now I'm having to deal with the fact that I've looked away from hallucination and look back, it's not a hallucination. It's watching the sunset. I got the sense it likes to come out of the tree and watch the sunset. And then it notices that I can see it. And it did not. It wasn't mean. Annoyed, grumpy old man looks at me like, ugh. And then like goes back to watching the sunset. That was my mystical encounter with a gnome.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

Dissed it hurt my feelings. It was like, you know, you wanted to be like, ah, you see me. Let me tell you the message of the tree. It was just like, oh, human, think.

[B]

About what we are to them. We're like big, dumb, slobbering dogs.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We're drooling all over them. We're barking too loud. We're, you know, we're tracking mud all over the place, you know. Yeah. They don't want. Well, you start to realize that if you, you know, you could just. Next time you're in a bookstore and you, you know, you just look over, like, the occult section and the folklore and the fairy tales, you realize most of this shit is real, Right. One way or another, most of it's real.

[A]

Well, right. Because here's what we think in modernity. This is what we think. We think. Well, these silly superstitious fools back in the old days came up with these bedtime stories that they told over and over again. And in the telling of the bedtime stories, it became mythology. But no one really experienced elves, gnomes, the good people. Even though, like, again and again and again, you hear it over and over and over again. And that's part of the blinders of modernity. And this is what I think, why there is a space. This is why the telepathy tapes are good. There is a real space in need for conversations revolving around this stuff that at least, you know. I love what Mitch Horowitz does. That at least, like, get, you know, invite people. Listen. Yeah. Was like, you. If I heard any of the shit that we've been talking about, I would be like, yeah, it's cool. Whatever. Twilight Zone bullshit. Not real. But the invitation, I think that's the most important part, is the invitation to humanity as a whole. Like, hey, maybe instead of immediately shutting this shit out, what happens if you just for an evening, entertain the possibility that. Not that millions of people throughout the ages who've reported these in poetic ways, serious ways, silly ways, are not insane. Like, maybe. Maybe it could be that in fact, you're missing out on an entire. I guess you could say it's like a new spectrum of color.

[B]

You know, it's the arrogance of humanity. You know? And like. Like Neil DeGrasse Tyson, to me, is the Darth Vader of our time. Like, I. You know, this guy is so arrogant. He's so dismissive of anything that he can't measure. And that's really.

[A]

Let me stop you there. I like him, and I'll tell you why.

[B]

Why.

[A]

I compare him to like, the dude in the car when you're getting stoned with your friends and you're like, man, I think that dude over there is a cop. And he's like, that's just a guy going in a 7:11. He calms you. I'm not saying, like, like from that. Like, for me, when I've really gone way out into, like, into deep space, I go to a Neil DeGrasse Tyson video and I'm like, okay, yeah, okay. So in that way, as a kind of palate cleanser, as an anchor, though, I do think he is always right next door just rubbing shoulders with what will be the most hilarious mystical experience anyone ever had when he has this road to Damascus experience.

[B]

Totally. Well, he won't tell anyone, though. That'll be. It'll be. It'll be a dirty little secret. You know, is. You know, and this is. And this is what I mean about the arrogance of science, you know, is it. Is that we. We're obsessed with our tools of measure. You know, if we. If we have a tool to measure something, we call it science. If we lack that tool, we call it supernatural, we call it the spirit. And that's so unbelievably arrogant of us to think we are the arbiter of what is real and what is unreal. We can't measure it. It doesn't count. And I have this analogy that I use all the time. It's so simple, and it's like the basic principles of scientific method is that you have a series of proofs. So there's a theory. And you're like, okay, I need to prove this theory in a scientific setting. So. So first I have to prove A, and then if I prove A, then that. Then great, tick that box. Then I can prove B, C, D, and eventually I'll get to N. And the N is the thing that I've proven in. Sorry. So you get. You make it to C, and you can't prove C, and you go, okay, abort, abort. Okay, this is the sort of. Philosophically, this is saying no. I am saying, no, I am not going to continue down this path. So if you think of it as a flight of stairs, and each stair is one of these proofs that you have to master in order to ascend the staircase. And you. And you get to the fourth stair and you fail and you turn around and you go back down, right? This is why I think it's so important if you are someone who is in tune with the supernatural, to be willing to make a fool of yourself all the time to risk being a naive idiot. Right? Absolutely. That if you say I made a deal, I'm going to always say yes, no matter how outlandish it may seem. I'm going to assume it's a real paranormal thing unless it's proven otherwise. It's the exact opposite of power. So if you do that and you let go of this idea that you have to prove every step, you will go to the top of the stairs in the way the scientist doesn't.

[A]

And that's something only a producer would understand. I'm sorry, that's a producer. A producer understands that because God knows when you're making something there's some missing steps and it's like, how the fuck do we get a helicopter? We're not getting a helicopter. No, we're getting a helicopter. It's gonna happen and you're dead.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And, and because you guys aren't subs, producers are the opposite of submissives. That you cannot have a submissive producer. Producers, they're. They're pack mules. They just keep fucking. They're pulling the fuck. They're ox. You guys are crazy. You just do it somehow. You're not a sub. And there's. If you think of scientists as being a little like submissives in the sense that they don't believe they're participating in reality. They believe that they're sort of uncovering reality, but participation in the sort of outfit. Flow of reality itself via the mind in the realm of what they would call magic. Well, yeah, if you believe enough, when you get to that step and you're proving your hypothesis, you're wrong, some part of you has to ask how much of that belief that it's wrong is concretizing the wrongness of the fucking thing. And nobody wants to go there. No one wants. Because the whole, the whole thing falls apart at that point. Now we're.

[B]

I always say, I always say skepticism proves itself. Everybody I know who says, like, wow, you know, I'm open. You know, I'm. I'm open. I, you know, I'm open.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

You're like, well, guess, guess what? It's not going to show itself to you with that attitude. Like it's, you know, and then, and then they walk out going, see? And it's like, well, it was you, it was you, dude. And then, well, that's a very convenient but, well, this is the trickster nature of it, you know, it's. And it's not. I mean, I was a rare case, you Know where it literally went? It just smacked the shit out of me to get, you know, to get my attention, you know? And then I realized, you know, it was, like, laughable. You know, Elijah used to tease me, say, how are you a skeptic? You've had more paranormal experiences than anybody I know. And somehow I would always just write.

[A]

Them off, you know, I say to my wife. I try to do that with my wife. She's like, duncan, you're the most religious person I've ever met. And I'm like, no, I'm not. I am a very, very skeptical man. And it's like, okay, I guess you're right. I do pray. I try to do spells. I mean, I constantly pray as much as I can, all the time. But. Yeah, I guess. I know. I understand. But there's a part of me that still wants to be Neil Degrasse Tyson. There's a part of me that still feels safe in that realm.

[B]

Sure, sure. It's. It's safe to understand. Yeah. It's safe to remain in this. Where you can prove things. It's very safe.

[A]

Well, and also, I've seen people dragged, man. I mean, you know, I. I've seen, like. I've also, you know, I. This is not me being a bummer or anything like that, but I have seen what happens when people. What's the best way to put it? I do think that, like, there's certain. I don't just mean interacting with the paranormal or anything like that, but I know that sometimes people. What do they say? Where energy goes, where attention goes, energy flows. And so the darker spectrum of reality is somehow, for a lot of people, more enticing than, like. In other words, there's something a little more tangible in connecting with forensic files or something. Like, people have a natural pull towards this part of reality. And you make horror movies, you know that we love it. But I feel like sometimes you can get sort of Grateful Dead parking lot. Grateful Dead parking lot. Just because somebody's wearing tie dye doesn't mean they're not a piece of shit, man. And, like, you're gonna. You know what I mean? In this spiritual realm. It's the Grateful Dead parking lot. Yeah, they're gonna sell you acid, but guess what else they're gonna fucking do? They're gonna, like, end up taking everything you own by the end of the night. Because that's what they do when people show up at the Grateful Dead concert to get acid. They get you high, they take your money. This hippie tried to take our fucking Car. By the end of the night, after he'd taken all our money, he got us the best asset ever. After he took all our money, all our money, gone. Took everything that we had that he could possibly take. And he did it in brilliant little steps. He'd done this before. In the morning, he's like, you guys, why do you give me your car? He just asked, why not? He already took everything else. So what I'm saying is, similarly, there is a. When you go to a Grateful Dead show, there is a kind of like, oh, my fucking God, this parking lot is amazing. People are juggling fire. Look over there. They're openly selling nitrous, right? And within that sort of exuberant, whoa, this is a new thing. There's this opening to somebody who looks like Charles Manson taking everything you own. And that's. So I. I do. I do think some people end up getting unlucky in their initial forays into this place.

[B]

And they do make contact up.

[A]

I'm just saying you can get up.

[B]

Of course you can, but you can get up by people. And I think that's. My point, is that it's. Yeah, sure, be fair warning.

[A]

But that's the beginning of every grimoire, friend.

[B]

But you can also get a bad Uber driver. You can also get on the wrong L train. You know, you can. I mean, is. Is it. You know, it's.

[A]

Yeah, but you get out of the Uber, your driver doesn't follow you into your house and throw a coin out of your ceiling. And.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. I. I think. Yeah, those stories about, like, you know, the conjuring and all that, like, those. Those are very rare, those types of situations. And. And they tend to be people who are experiencing some kind of other trauma, some terrestrial trauma, you know, is, you know, if you're, again, bringing it back to people, that these entities are as varied and complicated as people are, and if you are a person who is. You've done the work to be whole, to not be someone that's easily victimized or preyed upon, I think that extends to the unseen world as well.

[A]

And let me tell you, not a lot of us has done that work. And when this goes into a lot of different. Look at Judea. Look at. Like, I read that the high priest would go to the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem. Is. In Jerusalem, wherever the temple is now, it's just the wall, but there is a Holy of Holies there. And the high priest could go in there once a year, I believe. And when he went in. Do you know what they would do? Tie a rope around his waist. Because there was something that could happen where you go in there and just die. And they wanted to be able to pull his body out. It's like Chernobyl, because you can't go in there to retrieve the corpse. So if he falls over dead from whatever the fuck is going on in that place that you could like, guess you aren't pure enough. And then like, we'll try again next year. Who's the next high priest? Not a lot of hands going up, but this I'm saying. And again, I don't know why I always do this. I'm the fucking party pooper of all time. But I just feel like from my own personal experience with it and having seen what I would call negative miracles happen, that there. Listen, man, if you're gonna go do a surgery, wash your fucking hands and make sure that whoever's doing a surgery on you doesn't have shit all over their hands. And guess what? That to contextualize what we're talking about, there was a time where there was a saying, a gentleman does not wash his hands. Meaning your doctor, who is just doing an autopsy would come and deliver your baby with his hands covered in corpse muck. And the infant mortality and the mortality of mothers was so high because of just a lack of basic hygiene, because they didn't understand sterilization practices. And what you're talking about, I think is very similar to the discovery of germs. People didn't know there was germs.

[B]

That's a great analogy.

[A]

Fucking idea. What are you saying? Little creatures that we can't see that get in your mind and make you sick. Shut up. It's witches, you dumb shit. And it's like, no, there was a whole unseen universe that was discovered. And now when you go to get some medical procedure, you're not going to get sepsis because they understand sterilization.

[B]

It's a good analogy. Insofar as germs are an invisible force that affect you. But it's a bad analogy. Insofar as germs, by their very definition are bad for you, there's no good germ. I don't think there's anything. If we use the word germ, it means that.

[A]

I mean, gut bacteria.

[B]

Do we call those germs?

[A]

I do, because I'm an idiot.

[B]

I want to come back to this idea. So you. So you. You know, you've said a few times, I make horror films. And yes, I do. We do make horror films. I actually really don't like that word because it's. This is something that I've really come to feel quite passionately about is to encounter the otherworldly, the surreal, or the other world is. It is scary, but that's just one color. And it's getting back to this thing of something being scary doesn't mean it's dangerous. What I think is a much better word to describe the paranormal is awesome. And I mean that the literal meaning of it is filled with awe. And. And part of experiencing awe is scary, but it's also powerfully beautiful at the same time. And that is what awe is. It's something so much bigger than you. And awe is a religious feeling.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Horror suggests that all of this stuff is threatening, and it's not. And so I want to push back on what you're saying.

[A]

I accept pushback, sir. Pushback accepted.

[B]

If by your. What you're. If you're saying, yeah, there's dangerous, unseen entities out there, right? And I'm saying, okay, but work on not being someone that nefarious intelligences want to prey on. Right? But by your system, you wouldn't leave the house. I mean, you wouldn't. Because, by the way, cute through. There's bad humans out there too. Are you gonna never interact with anyone?

[A]

I try not to.

[B]

That's. That's why it's all. It's all. It's all. In Riverside.

[A]

I'm actually in a sub basement of my house. Josh has to go through a decontamination chamber before he comes in here. Spiritual and for the germs, both with sage and. And then we spray him down. No, I get it. I love your. I love. I. I love it. I. And I. I need. I need people like you in my life, man, because this is just my habit. My habit is to make everything all creepy. And I do, like, especially with Mandy. I mean, that's when you're talking about, like, it's this place.

[B]

It's tender. That movie's incredibly tender.

[A]

Magical, beautiful, Garden of Eden level, lush. It is a perfect way of conveying that realm that we all have sent since we were little littles. The feeling of, like, no, I know this is real. I know this isn't just something.

[B]

And what is that place in Mandy? I can tell you what it is. What? It's love. Like the movie, Mandy lives inside the nucleus of love. It's. It's. And. And part of love is loss, which is very painful. But you can't experience loss without love. I mean, there's A reason why. And this is all credited to Panos. I take. No, I have no authorship over any of this. I'm observing a master at work. But is. You know, there's a reason why that horror movie ends with him remembering the moment that they met at the bar. Right. Is like. Like, it's. It's. You know, it's. It's the. The movie radiates intimacy. It's all about intimacy. The dangers and rewards of intimacy. That's what I think.

[A]

That's my heart broken. That's me, pussy. I'm gonna go summon a demon now. Listen, I'm running out of time. I gotta get back to my family. Daniel, this. We must do this again. This.

[B]

It was awesome.

[A]

And you know, I'm not gonna bore you with this, but after we talk. Cause I've been playing on the podcast. I will play some of these fucking creepy tapes I have. I would love to know what you think about that. I'm not gonna, like, weigh you down with this shit, but it's something happened yesterday on the podcast that just creep. Very creepy.

[B]

Yeah. I'd love to.

[A]

Tell me every way that people can connect to Spectro Vision. I know that there's just a lot of stuff that needs some signal boosting that honored the signal boost.

[B]

Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. Well, and it's all. I think on the heels of this conversation, everything I'm about to share with you is very much born of these types of philosophical. Well, the podcast network, Spectra Vision Radio, just go to spectrevisionradio.com everything is there. We have this comic book series coming out called High Strangeness that we're doing with ONI Press. The incredible privilege of. They allowed me to write the five narratives and then partnered with very, very skilled writers and illustrators. And basically what we set out to do is because the people who run that company are weirdos like us. They said, do you want to do something? I said, I would like to create the most accurate representation of how the paranormal works that has yet existed in popular media. That's the goal. Right. And. And so a big part of that is it's absolutely confounding. You know, there's never clear resolutions with any of these things. And it's why, you know, everything on the Discovery plus channel is just fucking lie. It's like, you know that you don't. There is no answer. There's never an answer. And so. So High Strangeness, the first episode. Excuse me. The first issue comes out in October, and it's. It's Five interlocking stories that touch on different elements of the paranormal. The protagonist is inspired by John Keel. He's an author.

[A]

Inspired by who?

[B]

John Keel, who wrote the Mothman Prophecies. Yeah. Our movie Ebony and Ivory is currently out from Jim Hosking, who directed the Greasy Strangler. And then in September, our movie Rabbit Trap opens, which is about the fae. About the faeries.

[A]

No way. Really?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And it is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's an incredibly beautiful, powerful experience. The movie was at Sundance for a young filmmaker named Bryn Chaney. Dev Patel and Rosie McEwen are in it.

[A]

Wait, say that again. Of course you're fading out in this part. Say. Go back two sentences. Describe it again, please. And Josh, let's edit into this. I don't know why you're fading out when you're, like, pitching the film you just made. So I'm sorry, did you just. The last bit, start with describing. About fairies. Say the Rabbit Trap, which is.

[B]

Okay. In September, our film Rabbit Trap opens, which is. It's about the fae, it's about the fairies. It's based very, very accurately on Celtic fairy beliefs. And I don't believe there's ever been a film that has represented the experience of the fae this accurately. And so Dev Patel, Rosie McEwen are in it. And it's kind of like if you took. It's set in the 70s, it. And it is a. It's a supernatural film about sound. It's about. It's about a young couple who. The. The. They make experimental electronic music. They leave London and go to the.

[A]

Did you make this for me?

[B]

It seems like it, right?

[A]

It's a dream movie. Are you serious?

[B]

I mean, that's how we felt when we got the pitch. She's loosely based on Delia Derbyshire. So it's like BBC Radiophonic Workshop type music. So that. And. And her husband is her field recordist. So they're living out in this ancient wood and. And Dev is. Goes out and he. Because this kind of modern equipment has never been in this forest before, he records a sound that humans are not meant to have and brings it back to the studio and unlocks a lot of things. It's really great. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God, that is so cool, man. And that is so funny. I have so many synthesizers and. Dude, do you really.

[B]

Oh, do you play?

[A]

God, I have a pile of modular synthesizers. You wouldn't believe it, man.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I love them. It's why. It's one of my hobbies. I just sit in my studio and make what's that? I don't know if the word play is the right term for modular synthesizers when you're putting chords in and trying to come the divine through a bleeps. And, dude, let me tell you, that movie's dead on. Because sometimes comes out of those things and you're like, what the. And you don't even know what you're doing or why it's happening, where it's coming from. Yeah, it's crazy. I'll tell you something that happened with my ketamine dealer. My synthesizer's off no longer, by the way. That was in la. I'm a dad now. I don't do ketamine anymore. I feel like I have to say that. And that's true. Oh, my God, I can't wait to watch that. Can you give me a screener?

[B]

Yeah, I can.

[A]

Yes. You're the best, man. This is one of my favorite podcasts in a long time.

[B]

Thank you so much. And I just had a bishop on.

[A]

No offense, Bishop.

[B]

Wow. Well, I can't. Yeah, that's. I don't know what to say to that. This was awesome, man. Thank you. I feel like I could. I'm also exhausted. I'm gonna go sleep now.

[A]

Yeah, I'm not.

[B]

I'm not. You're energized. Some blood.

[A]

Make a pentagram. See if I can contact old Smokey.

[B]

Get that penny away. Yeah. Thank you, Duncan.

[A]

That was Daniel Noah, everybody. Definitely check out Rabbit Trap. I am. As soon as I finish recording this outro, I'm going to be annoying him until I get a screener of that movie. Tune in to Spectre Vision Radio. Check out High Strangeness coming in from ONI Press and follow him on all his socials. What a cool guy, huh? We're going to have him back on for sure. Thank you so much for listening or watching. I love you. I'll see you next week.