DUNCAN TRUSSELL FAMILY HOUR – EPISODE 717: RAGHU MARKUS
October 10, 2025

Overview:

This episode of the Duncan Trussell Family Hour sees Duncan joined by Raghu Markus, director of the Love Serve Remember Foundation and longtime friend/disciple of Ram Dass and Neem Karoli Baba. Against a backdrop of current global and national turmoil, Duncan invites Raghu for a soulful exploration of love, division, protest, activism, and how to “cool off” the polarities tearing society apart. Tangling with themes of righteous anger, spiritual bypassing, the pitfalls and promises of activism, and the possibility of a revolution powered by love rather than hate, the conversation turns deeply honest, lively, and philosophical.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Spiritual Guidance in Dark Times

• Duncan notes “Times are weird. People feel uneasy or terrified… I wanted people on who might help us cool down a little bit.” (00:05)
• He brings up Raghu’s unique experience bridging the worlds of Maharaji (Neem Karoli Baba), Ram Dass, and contemporary activism.

2. Historical Perspective & Present-Day Upheaval

• Duncan asks Raghu: How do the current apocalyptic-feeling times (social unrest, political violence) compare to prior eras like the 1960s and 70s?
• Raghu recounts (05:09) learning from mentor Danny Goldberg to contextualize today: “Whenever I would say, ‘this is the worst of times.’ Yeah, well, not quite…”
• Raghu shares a pivotal quote from Ram Dass about the 60s:

  “The problem was… we underestimated the power of fear… The sixties polarized the culture because it was naive… I now see that the naivete with which we embraced our idealism fed the fundamentalist and right wing movement in the United States.” (08:00)

3. Ram Dass’ Legacy – Bridging Activism and Spirituality

• The conversation pivots to unifying, rather than dividing. Duncan: “I know his view of things as a whole instead of othering people…” (11:08)
• They discuss cycles of protest and repression, questioning the effectiveness of violence vs. love-based resistance.
• Duncan asks about the “dance” of polarization:

  “Both sides have to be there… It’s like a hurricane forms. I don’t think hurricanes want to be there… But is that a fair analysis of what [Ram Dass] might say?” (13:32)

4. Addressing Violent Protest and Justified Rage

• Duncan roleplays as a violent protestor (18:16), channeling their perspective:

  “If I sit by and meditate in my fucking apartment and burn incense while children are being ripped from their parents, who the fuck am I? Meditating is not going to do shit.” (20:00)

• Raghu relates a real instance of this sentiment among spiritual friends:

  “One particular person— a woman—said, ‘That’s great the book’s coming out. Meanwhile, can we hang so-and-so?’” (22:02)

5. The Limits of Anger and Cycles of Violence

• Pragmatic inquiry: Does force against force increase justice?
• Duncan argues:

  “Now you commit violence… Now you’ve justified their violence with your violence… If violent resistance worked, we’d be living in a utopia right now.” (25:04)

• Raghu: “All of history. Just look at it. This is not new… hopefully in our potentially more enlightened state, we can look inside ourselves and see that hate and anger beget exactly the opposite.” (27:28-27:32)
• Both agree: violence perpetuates cycles but is seductive because it gives a sense of control and righteousness.

6. Unconditional Love: Power, Misconceptions, and Real Practice

• The “hardest part”: how to tap love instead of hate in activism and daily life.
• Raghu invokes Martin Luther King:

  “When that man spoke, you could feel the love in his being… The pushback has to be there, but a lot of the success depends on not having hate in your heart.” (28:37-29:17)

• Duncan: “That love is grounded in reality, not ignoring suffering… There’s another way to do this.” (30:13-41:21)
• Discussion of Gandhi’s Salt March: nonviolence as illumination of oppression.

7. The Human Side—Acknowledging Nuance and Pain

• Anne Lamott, writing in the new Ram Dass book:

  “You can tell you’ve created God in your own image when he or she hates all the same people you do. We’re taught black and white and what has gotten us into trouble is this win-or-lose consciousness… Real life has subtleties and layers.” (32:22-33:18)

• Both note the privilege of even being able to discuss these issues abstractly, not from a place of direct trauma:

  “Thank God you and me are never going to know what it’s like to remove rubble from on top of our dead children.” (37:34-38:27)

• Raghu: “I don’t think we have a chance in hell unless somebody comes that is at least a replicate of Martin Luther King…” (23:13)

8. Pragmatic Methods: Inner Work as Outer Activism

• “The only option we have is figuring out a way for some kind of revolution fueled not by hate, but by love.” (52:52)
• Raghu:

  “How do I do it—is the starting point… The question is a privilege that we have… We need to take that privilege and share it as much as possible by being inside ourselves in a way that is not polarized. The thing inside ourselves that’s polarized is what manifests outside.” (54:18-57:09)

• Emphasis on honest self-reflection, acknowledging reactive anger, and working with it: “You start looking at that reactivity…” (54:46-55:11)
• Importance of community for spiritual resilience: “Being together, where we can first of all drop that at the door…” (57:11)
• “Work on yourself while you are doing whatever you can for anybody, for what you believe in, in a completely peaceful way.” (75:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On 1960s Intent and Naiveté:

  “Those of us who had experienced that quality of love had such a sense of the power of love that we underestimated the power of fear… the sixties polarized the culture because it was naive.” – Ram Dass (read by Raghu, 08:00)

• On Protest and Reciprocal Violence:

  “Now you’ve killed. Who knows, you shoot one of these people, they’re a dad. Now you have justified their violence with your violence… If violent resistance worked, we would be living in a utopia right now.” – Duncan (25:04)

• On Genuine Love in Action:

  “The pushback has to be there, I am sure… but a lot of the success of whatever you’re trying to do is dependent on not having hate in your heart. That’s the tough thing.” – Raghu (29:17-35:52)

• Humor Amidst Intensity:

  “You know what I am? I’m someone who’s got BlueChew in one of his drawers. I can chomp those babies up and Lazarus is raised from the dead.” – Duncan (36:00, after a commercial break, keeping the tone human and light at times)

• On the Reality of Pain and Privilege:

  “My day-to-day suffering compared to someone who is going to be traumatized for the rest of their lives… So I want to acknowledge that first… Yes, you are not wrong. Your feelings are. Yes. You’re not malfunctioning right now.” – Duncan (38:35)

• On the Limits of Love as a Concept:

  “Love—for many people this word is slightly cringe-worthy… it’s a bit of a dirty word. Maybe going too far.” – Raghu (45:15)

• On Unconditional Love:

  “It is not going to anesthetize you… Not going to numb you, not going to make you feel like you’re doing the right thing… You have to subvert at the very core of your being, transactionalism, and you have to give up the idea you’re getting anything back.” – Duncan (68:27-69:52)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:27: Duncan introduces Raghu, frames the state of the times as “weird” and potentially terrifying; episode sets aim at finding “the place of love inside us.”
• 04:05–08:00: Raghu and Duncan contextualize the current crisis with stories from the 60s, personal anecdotes.
• 08:00–10:54: Raghu shares a long excerpt from Ram Dass’s new book, diagnosing the “naïvete” and polarization of the 60s and the lessons it holds for today.
• 18:16–25:04: Duncan play-acts as a protestor advocating violence, gets Raghu’s/“Ram Dass’s” response.
• 27:28–35:52: Both examine cycles of violence, Martin Luther King/Gandhi-style resistance, the challenge and necessity of love without hate.
• 32:22–34:15: Anne Lamott’s words on the danger of black-and-white thinking.
• 52:27–57:09: What can you actually do? The mechanics and privilege of inner work as outer action.
• 68:27–69:52: Unlearning transactionalism, learning uncomfortable, unconditional love in practice.
• 75:32–76:55: Raghu on action—working on oneself while engaged in the world.
• 77:21–77:36: “Why not put the Sermon on the Mount in schools?” – Discussing the deeper message of compassion in Christianity, not just rules.

Actionable Wisdom and Takeaways

• Revolutionary love is not passive: It fuels nonviolent resistance, is historically effective, and is as tough (if not tougher) than violence or hate.
• Activism and self-work must go together: It’s not “work on yourself then act.” It’s simultaneous – keep checking the heart even as you engage in action.
• Embrace discomfort: True love (in the revolutionary, spiritual sense) is deeply uncomfortable and disrupts “righteousness” and identity games.
• Be skeptical of easy answers: Both violence and “bypass spirituality” offer seductive, simple solutions – but the conversation continually returns to honest, hard self-examination.
• No “othering” – start within: The polarization in society reflects our internal separations; the “movie of me to the movie of we.”
• Curiosity and shared humanity: Cultivate curiosity about “the other” as a path to healing.

Closing Quotes:

“Maybe this is going to go a lot further… and maybe that darkness has to produce— the only way light happens is through darkness.” – Raghu (47:53)

“The only option we have is figuring out a way for some kind of revolution fueled not by hate, but by love.” – Duncan (52:52)

“Work on yourself while you are doing whatever you can for anybody, for what you believe in, in a completely peaceful way." – Raghu (75:32)

Further Resources:

• Raghu Markus: Mindrolling Podcast
• Love Serve Remember Foundation: Website
• Ram Dass, There Is No Other: The Way to Harmony and Wholeness (2025)

For listeners new or old, this episode is a deep well of inspiration, humility, and challenge—urging us all to look at the “thick, bubbling sludge” over our hearts, and have the courage to try something different.