Duncan Trussell Family Hour – Episode 726

Live from Skankfest, New Orleans (December 6, 2025)
Guests: Tom O’Neill, Greg Fitzsimmons, Kurt Metzger
Main Theme: Deep-Dive into Charles Manson, “Chaos,” the CIA & Cults

Episode Overview

This live episode of DTFH features a powerhouse lineup: investigative journalist Tom O’Neill (author of Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties), comedians Greg Fitzsimmons and Kurt Metzger. Duncan and guests dive into the wild, tangled story behind the Manson murders, CIA mind control experiments (MKUltra), how cults operate in society, and what Tom uncovered during his decades-long investigation into the darkest corners of American history.

The energy is rowdy and irreverent—part stand-up, part feverish conspiracy salon—with a focus on the stories, psychology, and insane details behind the Manson case, cults, and institutional secrecy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origins of Tom O’Neill’s Manson Investigation

• Tom’s accidental deep-dive (09:00, 13:44, 23:39):
  • Started as a 3-month magazine assignment in 1999 to write about the 30th anniversary of the Manson murders.
  • Quickly became a 20-year obsession as holes in the traditional narrative (especially Bugliosi’s Helter Skelter) emerged.
  • Quote:
    “What was supposed to be a three month assignment turned into a 20 year odyssey. And it’s horrible. I literally fucked up.” — Tom O’Neill (23:39)
• Greg Fitzsimmons describes Tom’s discipline:
  • Tom devoted years to methodical research, chasing leads, interviewing dying cops, and sacrificing normal life.
  • Quote:
    “Every time he did, we went like, fuck, yeah, man. Keep going.” — Greg Fitzsimmons (25:45)

2. Cracks in the Official Story, The Bugliosi Problem

• Bugliosi’s prosecution tactics (27:01, 32:36):
  • Evidence Bugliosi withheld, created false narratives, suborned perjury; he later became hostile and tried to intimidate Tom.
  • Quote:
    “He had actually misrepresented and withheld evidence from the defense and suborned perjury. He had created a completely false narrative…” — Tom O’Neill (27:01)
  • Tom recounts Bugliosi’s attempts at control and intimidation, including an alleged threat to spread false accusations of pedophilia (36:40).

3. The Haight-Ashbury Clinic, MKUltra, & Manson as Unwitting CIA Asset?

• Manson’s Parole “Protection” (51:47, 53:57):
  • After release from prison, Manson violated parole and went to San Francisco instead of being sent back to jail; instead, he’s given to a parole officer at the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic, which has ties to CIA-funded drug experiments.
  • Quote:
    “All of a sudden, by the end of the summer of 67... he had this cult of young women... transformed into this cult leader that had these powers over people’s behavior….” — Tom O’Neill (54:06)
• Jolly West, Elephant on Acid, and Operation Midnight Climax (60:13, 61:00):
  • Louis “Jolly” West, key CIA psychiatrist, ran LSD mind control experiments, infamously killed an elephant with LSD, and was embedded at the Haight-Ashbury Clinic.
  • Quote:
    “He was a very prominent academic and psychiatrist who was accused when MK Ultra was exposed... of secretly working for the CIA... conducting LSD experiments….” — Tom O’Neill (62:04)
• Tom’s Eureka Moment in the UCLA Archives (64:52):
  • Discovery of a 1953 letter showing Jolly West’s work with Sidney Gottlieb, the mastermind of MKUltra, directly linking them to the program’s origins.
  • Quote:
    “It sounded like it was an outline for what became the MKUltra program...” — Tom O’Neill (65:33)

4. Cult Psychology, Broader Implications, and the Line Between Cults & Society

• Comparing cults to governments (58:02):
  • Duncan: At what point is a cult just how default reality works? Government leaders and cult leaders both convince people to kill.
  • Quote:
    “Manson’s big crime: He convinced people to kill people for him, which is exactly what any government leader does every day.” — Duncan (58:02)
• CIA goal: Programmed assassins (59:33):
  • MKUltra’s ultimate aim was people who’d kill on command, have no memory.

5. Manson’s Methods: Cult Leadership through Psychedelic Manipulation

• Manson didn’t take acid—he dosed followers and controlled them (54:27):
  • Quote:
    “He pretended to take it [acid], but he was manipulating them while they were tripping.” — Tom O’Neill (54:30)

6. Q&A – Jolly West’s Omnipresence

• Audience asks about West and high-profile cases (72:22, 73:11):
  • Claims West was involved with Timothy McVeigh, Patty Hearst/SLA, Jonestown—like a “Forrest Gump of the CIA.”
  • Quote:
    “This guy’s like the Forrest Gump of the CIA.” — Duncan (73:37)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the magnitude of what O’Neill found:
  • “You actually found a place you’re not supposed to go.” — Duncan (26:18)
• On journalistic trench work:
  • “Turn every page. You have to look at every single page because you don’t know what you might miss.” — Tom O’Neill describes his summer in UCLA archives (65:33)
• On the absurd horror of CIA human experiments:
  • “You have scientists overcrowding, mice giving them speed, then acid to try to find out what’s going to happen to the hippies. Like, who was crazier?” — Duncan (55:53)
• On blackmail tactics:
  • “He was going to exp—he said he had information that I was a pedophile, and he was going to share it.” — Tom O’Neill recalls Bugliosi’s threat (36:40)
• On the omnipresent hand of secrecy:
  • “It’s a network of networks, dude.” — Kurt Metzger (73:11)

Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:20] – Live show kickoff, intros
• [06:46] – Greg Fitzsimmons on befriending Tom O’Neill
• [08:48] – Tom O’Neill: How the Manson project began
• [10:58] – Explanation of Manson murders/“creepy crawling”
• [22:13] – Manson’s LSD crucifixions, acid-fueled mind control
• [23:39] – Tom: How a 3-month assignment became 20 years
• [27:01] – Bugliosi’s lies, intimidation, and legal threats
• [36:40] – Threats and attempted blackmail by Bugliosi
• [51:20] – Government cult creation, Ken Kesey, Kaczynski, and the origin of MKUltra
• [53:57] – Manson’s free pass at the Haight-Ashbury Clinic; beginnings of cult control
• [54:27] – Manson dosed his followers but not himself
• [60:13] – Jolly West, Midnight Climax, and acid-killed elephants
• [62:04] – Archival evidence links West to MKUltra originators
• [65:33] – Turn every page: O’Neill’s research breakthrough
• [70:53] – Jolly West’s Jack Ruby/JFK connection
• [72:22 – 74:00] – Q&A: West’s reach to McVeigh, Patty Hearst, Jonestown
• [73:37] – Forrest Gump of the CIA
• [79:16–80:12] – Kurt previews “Uncle Laser” AI video project

Tone & Style

The tone is wild, irreverent, and darkly funny—riffing with high-level paranoia, world-weary cynicism, and stoner philosophizing. The comedians punctuate deep dives with asides, jokes, and digressions, but O’Neill’s revelations hit hard and are treated with real gravity by the group. The conversation rides the line between conspiracy and history, drawing the audience into the “vortex” of obsession with how and why institutional evil persists.

Final Thoughts

Tom O’Neill’s appearance at Skankfest for DTFH marks a rare, raw public fireside with three comics and a dogged researcher, where laughter and unfiltered honesty puncture the collective myths about Manson, cults, and American power.

Essential takeaway:
Reading Chaos isn’t just about the Manson murders—it’s a meditation on how easily official history gets rewritten, how cult thinking pervades mainstream society, and how little we really know about who pulls the cultural strings.

Memorable closer:
“Thank you so much for spending those 20 years. It is an incredible book.” — Duncan to Tom O’Neill (71:49)

Further Reading/References:

• Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties by Tom O’Neill
• The Search for the Manchurian Candidate by John Marks (referenced at 65:33)

For more, check out the full episode or follow DTFH, Tom O’Neill, Greg Fitzsimmons, and Kurt Metzger online.