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Earn the Right to Live Your Dreams
11 Interview: Legendary Coach Anson Dorrance on Being Extraordinary
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Anson Dorrance is arguably one of the greatest college coaches of all-time. As the head coach of the University of North Carolina Women's Soccer program, he has won 21 NCAA Championships and has coached 13 women to National Player of the Year...
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Foreign.
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Welcome to the Earn the right to.
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Live your dreams podcast.
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This is Coit Cooper. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Earn the right to live your dreams podcast. This is a really, really special guest. Today we have Anson Dorrance, who is the head coach of the UNC women's soccer team, where he has won 21 championships, the first coach ever to win 20 at the college level. He has coached 13 women to national player of the year honors, named the coach of the Year seven different times, coached the US Women's team to the first ever World cup title, elected to the National Soccer hall of Fame while still coaching. I can't possibly name all his accolades, but today we are going to take.
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It to the playing field where we.
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Are going to learn from the greatest coaches of all time. It's time to get to growing.
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In three, two, one. All right, everybody. Welcome to the Earn the right to live your dreams podcast that we're here with Anson Dorrance. Very excited to have Anson here. In my opinion, in a lot of people's opinions, one of the greatest coaches kind of ever in college sports. So, Anson, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking part with us.
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My pleasure. A pleasure to be here chatting with you. Thank you.
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All right, well, let's jump right into it. I just got done listing all of your accomplishments, and they're really staggering. And so what I wanted to do is ask you, of all the things that you've accomplished as you reflect back, what are the things or the things that you're most proud of as a coach?
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Well, you know, if you look at, I guess, the glossy surface of it, you'd have to point to the World Championship in 1991, and certainly the ACC Regular Season Championships, the tournament championships, and the national championships. But my favorite story, actually, is a story about Amos Alonso Stagg. He was the extraordinary football coach at the University of Chicago. And after one of his national championships, a reporter walked up to him and said, hey, coach, what do you think of your team? And I thought his answer is one of the greatest answers a coach could ever give to that question following any kind of game or championship. And he said, I'll tell you in 20 years. And so obviously, what Stagg understood about his responsibility, certainly, and my responsibility as a collegiate educator is winning a championship is certainly an extraordinary event in the lives of the players and coaching staffs that are coaching the team. But ultimately, your main mission is the development of your human capital. What were these kids like when you got them? What were they like when they graduated. What are they going to be like 20 years down the road? In other words, what. What are they going to leave you and your program with that will serve them and their communities well for the rest of their lives? In other words, what have you done for their character? So, obviously, that's, I think, our most critical mission. Now, coaches, maybe for professional teams, even national teams, might have a different mission, but that's our mission. Stagg's mission as a collegiate educator and football coach at the University of Chicago, my mission as the women's soccer coach at the University of North Carolina. Our moral imperative goes well beyond winning and losing soccer games. So I think that character piece is absolutely critical.
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Okay? And we have a lot of listeners who are trying to create a winning culture. And that's not only what you talked about, which is the winning overall, but also that type of culture where you're developing human beings. Like you said, you know, what have you done, as you look back on your career, to establish that here at the University of North Carolina?
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Well, I'm one of these guys that loves to read business books on creating culture. So this very issue that you and I are discussing is something that's fascinated me, but I've never really been that effective at doing this character piece very well. I've always certainly tried to treat my players well, certainly tried to guide them in the direction I think would be positive for them and their futures. But I never really felt like I was doing the right things. You know, you read these business books, and it talks about creating this culture with these core values. And I had all these core values for years about what I wanted my culture to be like. But there was nothing inspiring about them. There was nothing transformational about the statement, you know, we work hard, or, you know, we don't want wine, or some platitude that all of us would embrace as a logical core value for whatever culture we were leading. And then all of a sudden, one day, I'm reading this article in the New York Times Magazine, and it was an article written by a woman that had studied Russian literature and Russian poetry at Columbia. In fact, she was a PhD candidate there in Russian literature and Russian poetry. And she talks about this story of Columbia embracing a Russian exile poet to run their PhD program in Russian poetry and literature by the name of Joseph Brodsky. So she talks about Brodsky coming into Colombia, and in their first meeting with him, all the PhD candidates, and I assume, master's candidates, gathered with him. And he basically said, okay, you know, people, we're going to memorize all of this Russian literature and Russian poetry. And of course, all of the Columbia students, including the author of this piece in the New York Times Magazine article, were staggered by this demand. And they all got together post meeting and said, you know what? This guy's nuts. He spent maybe too much time in Siberia. This is not something that the American PhD candidate does. I mean, this is for elementary school children in the United States. Let's get together and tell them that we're just not going to do this. I don't think he really understands the academic culture here and who we are. So they all, you know, with their chest puffed out, you know, storm into his office and tell him they're not going to do anything. And he basically says, well, if you don't, then none of you get your PhDs, your master's degrees. And so, of course, they decided, well, you know, maybe we should. And then what she talks about, which is transformational, she talks about how memorizing the poetry, literature that was assigned by Brodsky completely transported them, completely changed the tenor of their discussions when they were discussing Russian literature and poetry, changed the fabric of their minds and the way they felt about it. And it was just an extraordinary transformation that occurred in her and all of her colleagues because of this platform of. Of memorizing the extraordinary literature that was out there for them to study. So I'm thinking, well, let me give this a shot. So I took every one of our core values, and I found what I felt was a motivational quote that I attached to it. I had each class memorize these motivational quotes that were related to these core values. Then I had each player evaluate each player against each core value with sort of a peer pressure, peer evaluation. And honestly, it's the most extraordinary thing we've ever done for character development. Because what we saw happening is we saw slowly but surely all the elements of our culture start to transform in the most positive way. And I think that's the most effective thing we've ever done for changing our culture. So something as simple as that, finding something as motivational, like for the, you know, you don't whine quote, you know, be a force of fortune instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances, complaining the world will not devote itself to making you happy. So every freshman coming in memorizes that. And if we hear any one of them whining, obviously, they have to recite that quote publicly. And so what it is is a reminder of the Correct behavior. Because what's interesting now about the different people that you recruit and the different people that you are embracing within your culture, everyone comes from a different background of what's demanded of them. Everyone comes from a different background of what true great character is and what that example should be. And a part of this, I guess, process of memorizing these motivational quotes attached to these core values is to try to, again, like Brodsky with his students at Columbia, you're trying to get it into the fabric of the people you're educating and training. And this memorization idea and finding something motivational for them to sort of digest and become a part of their character fabric, I think, is transformational, and it's the absolute best thing we've ever done.
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That's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard anybody say anything like that, because I think when you work with coaches, one of the first things that you see them doing is more the transition, traditional, going through values, taking the values from other people and trying to build a culture that way, which is a fascinating way to go about it. You, early on in your career, had success, and there's coaches who are trying to do that. They want to be able to build a program in some ways the way that you have. How did you go about casting vision? You said you. Maybe you've struggled with that, but how did you go about doing that early in your career?
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Well, I think there's an evolution as you gain confidence as a coach. And it's interesting because I've had this discussion with Becky Burley, the coach at the University of Florida, quite a bit, and one of her mentors is an absolutely extraordinary coach by the name of Brett Ledbetter, who wrote this fantastic book called what Drives Winning? And in my arguments with Becky, and I guess indirectly, somewhat with Brett, I think the first step in your confidence is you've got to sort of master what's going on on the field, because if you can't do that and you can't start to win a bit, you don't have any personal credibility. I mean, you don't even believe that you. You can do it. I mean, yourself as a coach, until you've started to gain some credibility on the field. And. And I think once you've done that, you can sort of evolve into a higher level as a coach, because once you've accepted the fact that, yeah, you've got something to contribute, you've got something to teach, then the challenge is, well, is there something beyond this that's going to benefit these players that I can bring in that can help me become more transformational for them in terms of their character, be beyond their ability to execute something technically, to make the correct decision tactically, which obviously is all a part of the coaching structure. So I believe there's that sort of evolution. But Brett, with his book what Drives Winning is trying to drive a new idea into the culture. And I'm not entirely opposed to it. I love the premise of it, and I want to believe it. And what he believes is what drives winning is character. So what Brett sort of drives in his book, what Drives winning is that. So he always feels like, you should start with that, and you should start with this character piece right out of the gate. In fact, he believes in this so much that he had this symposium in St. Louis about six months ago that he invited me to. To actually speak on character, and I did. And anyone that's interested in sort of drilling deeper into this area should go to his what Drives Winning Website. And all of the presentations, including one I gave on character, are there. And I think he's done an absolutely tremendous job assembling all the different speakers. And you will hear, I think, all the different perspectives on the character force in driving winning, because I think most coaches would probably have to go through what I went through before they decided that, you know, ultimately, what drives winning is character. So let me focus on that even more than me focusing on, you know, trapping, passing, shooting, dribbling, and heading. But for me, I had to gain some confidence that what I was doing was effective for. And maybe it was my immaturity. Part of that maybe was related to the fact that when I started coaching at a collegiate level, I was extraordinarily young. I actually ended up coaching guys I had played with here at unc. That was how early I got the head men's coaching position here at unc. And this is three years before I was extended an opportunity to coach the women. So I think a part of my issues as a young coach was the fact I was young and my maturation wasn't at a point where I could effectively get to the character piece. So maybe that's a part of our evolution in coaching, is to gain some credibility and confidence first before we take the next step.
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Okay, you're talking about character. And when I walked in, you're watching an interview that touched on your relationship with Dean Smith, who is a guy who is just known as having incredible character and is just loved not only at the University of North Carolina, but across the Country. Could you talk to us a little bit about your relationship with him and what it meant to you?
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Oh, absolutely. Because when you look at institutional culture, you look at the people that have impacted it. And we know a lot about institutional culture here because we've had a change in leadership with our chancellor, with the president of the university, now with the athletic director, with our football coaches, certainly. And so this issue of culture was a very important piece. And the new athletic director that came in was very interested in helping us create the correct culture. And I think he wanted to come in and sort of change what he thought was possibly a toxic culture, given what was out there with the media and terms of what was happening at unc. But I think we finally convinced him that our culture was fine because our culture was permeated with the values of Dean Smith. And those values are basically valuing everyone on your roster without hierarchy, so that the person you value most on your basketball roster in Dean Smith's culture wasn't necessarily the best player. In fact, the lowliest manager was afforded the same respect as Michael Jordan in the Dean Smith culture. And the fact that Dean Smith, one of the most extraordinary things that happened after he died was for all of us to find out that what he had done is he had made sure that every single letter winner in his program received a check for $250 with the assignment to take his wife out to dinner. And this is, you know, post Dean Smith's funeral. And, you know, when you get this sort of thing, you know, in the mail, because obviously that's the way Dean Smith set up his estate and his post mortem trust, it sort of gives a wonderful measure of, here he is. Most of us in, while we're alive don't have much impact on the people that are around us and don't even care to. And here is Dean Smith, post mortem, having an impact on sharing with each one of his players his huge love and affection and relationship with him even beyond the grave. And if that's not a statement of culture and caring, I don't know what is. And so Dean Smith's platform of the way he treated people, the way he treated his staff, the way he treated the players that played for him. It's just absolutely extraordinary. So all of us here at UNC have that as a part of our culture and a part of our DNA. And so his impact and influence on me in this very important area is a lifetime impact. And so that's. That's genuine, you know, to the marrow of your bones. Culture that's a part of what's here at the University of North Carolina. And I think all of us had to convince our athletic director that we didn't need any sort of transformation in our culture. I mean, the media got a hold of something that's negative, like the media likes to do, and they tried to paint all of us with this brush, and we refused it because we were products of a Dean Smith culture that cared about human beings beyond winning and losing. And we didn't need any sort of transformation.
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Yeah. And can you look back and you're talking about Dean Smith and transformation? Was there any one piece of advice that he ever gave you that you just. You kind of carry with you even today?
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Well, he wasn't one of these people that I would walk up to and, you know, interrupt his day and ask for advice. He lived his core values, and all you had to do was to look at him, see how he treated the people around him, see the values of the people around him. Because, you know, most superstars are very insular. And yet Michael Jordan would always go out of his way to come back and consult with Dean Smith. And even when Micah was struggling at a professional level, he would call Dean. Of course, we would hear these stories because we're part of the culture. And I remember Dean's advice to him when he was scoring 40, 50 points a game and his team wasn't winning. And Dean's simple advice to him was, use your teammates. And all of a sudden, he took this unbelievable dueling warrior and helped transform him into a team player that ended up having a NBA legacy that is second to no one. So I didn't have that sort of, you know, I need advice from Dean Smith relationship with him like he did with his players. But all I had to do was to look at him, see the way he treated the players around him, hear stories like this last one of him, you know, extending a $250 check to every letterman that had ever played for him to go out and take his wife to dinner. And then there's this new basketball award, the Basketball Writers Association Award, the Dean Smith Award. And the writers try to pick an individual that most reflects Dean Smith. So the one they picked first was John Thompson at Georgetown. And so he was actually on campus. I was invited to the dinner. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm getting through John Thompson, the advice that Dean Smith gave him. And it was extraordinarily profound because apparently. And this is John Thompson telling the story. He's saying he's struggling one season, and he just had to reach out to Dean to get some advice on, you know, what he was doing wrong. And, you know, he wanted to try to change his season. And he calls up Dean Smith, and he basically told Dean the story of what was happening. And at the end of the conversation, John Thompson said, dean Smith simply said this, John, you're gonna be okay. You know, don't worry about it. You're gonna be okay. And of course, Thompson said he was frustrated because Dean didn't give me any advice. And he says, what do you mean I'm gonna be okay? You haven't, you know, told me anything. How can you tell me I'm gonna be okay? And you haven't given me any advice on how to correct any of this. And he said. Dean Smith said, well, you know what, John? Everything you've told me, you've just taken full responsibility for. You haven't blamed your players. You haven't blamed the circumstances at Georgetown, your lack of budget or your, you know, your basketball arena. You haven't blamed the media. You haven't blamed your assistant coaches. You've taken full responsibility for everything that's taken place in your program that you think you fit failed at. And he said, all the people that do that are absolutely fine. And what a profound statement of support to let his good friend John Thompson know that just the fact that he took responsibility for everything means for any of us that are responsible for things. As soon as you take responsibility for something is the first step in having the power to change it. As soon as you give, you know, everyone around you an excuse for this and an excuse for that, for this failure in your life or this lack of success during a season, that's the first step in abdicating responsibility. And then all you are is a, you know, a leaf being buffeted about by the hurricane. You know, you're not in a position to control or impact anything. And there's another example of not so much Dean Smith telling me this, but me respecting him, listening to what he's done and the way he served the people around him. And these were just extraordinary lessons for me, not just as a coach, but as a man.
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Yeah, it seems like a great kind of transition to talk about athletes. You know, you've had amazing athletes both at the international level and on your team. And what is it that makes your players really unique? Is it that same thing you talked about? Is it different things?
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Well, I think the first thing that all of us accept, and this is certainly not profound, is that all of us bring in these kids. We have to accept right out of the gate that everyone is different. We also have to accept right out of the gate that despite what they say publicly and what they said is their goals to become, you know, an Olympic athlete or a national team athlete or a national champion, none of them really understand the process to get there. So one of your functions as a coach is to help them get there. And what you're trying to convince them of is you're trying to convince them that they've got this extraordinary potential. And what all of them are then doing is they're all fighting to stay at a more comfortable level because none of them know the process to get there. They all claim that they want to be this and that, and then you watch the way they continue their lives, and they just. They're not conducting their lives like a world champion or an Olympic gold medalist or even a national champion. And so then you slowly but surely, you don't tear them down, because there's nothing more destructive than, you know, stepping in and letting this player that, you know thinks they're God's gift to the game know that, you know they're not. Doesn't mean you don't share with them. Well, you know, here are the different elements that you've got to select to have if you do want to start to get to your potential. But that's a part of your function as a coach. You got to figure out what conduit you're going to use to help convince this player that they can be extraordinary and then hold them to a standard on a consistent basis without shattering them so that if they truly do want to get there, and all of us know this, for all the players that say they want to get to this level, there's a tiny percentage that can actually get there. It's not like they can't get there. It's that they don't want to. They say they want to, but it's so easy to come into the office and say, you know what, I want to start this season or I want to get more playing time. All right, great. You know, I'm glad you've decided you want to start or get more playing time. All right, well, then let's see if you're. You're doing the right stuff. You know, let's, you know, let's look at, you know, what you did this summer, and slowly but surely, you're letting the athlete know that, you know, your choices right now just aren't getting you there. So you Got to make a decision here. Do you want to start? Do you want to get more time? Do you want to be on the Olympic team? Do you want this? Do you want that? Well, then you've got to construct your day to get there, and then you got to take responsibility for getting there. And those are the hard parts. The hard parts is to wake up every morning and decide you want to be extraordinary. Because the reason it is rare is because it's incredibly hard to do. And trust me, if you can't get up every morning with this ambition to get something done, there's nothing wrong with you. You're just ordinary. So what you've got to embrace as well, you know, I just might be ordinary. And then if you're not ordinary, then, you know, show me.
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Yeah, that's. That's fascinating. And I'm losing my track on asking the next question because I'm getting so kind of into what you're saying and this ordinary part. You as a coach, I mean, how do you stay away from being ordinary? Are you just driven to be kind of remarkable at what you do?
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Well, I don't really know. I mean, you can. We're all a product of the elements of our upbringing and of our lives. I think, honestly, it started out I was a 4 foot 11 freshman in high school. And I love sports, but for me to prove myself in sports, I had to play with a chip on my shoulder. And if you look at almost any great athlete or great coach, they're trying to prove something. One of my favorite stories, of course, is Tom Brady, because He was drafted 199th. And what's really cool about that is, you know, most people will be shattered by that. Being considered the 199th best player coming out of college. And what's interesting about Brady is he will probably end up retiring the greatest football player of all time. Well, I think what he does is I think he has a chip on his shoulder that he will keep placing on his shoulder for the rest of his life for being disrespected to that extent where he feels like he's got to prove himself in every single second of every practice, in every game, because that bitter taste is still in his mouth that he was drafted 199th. And I think what all of us have to do if we do truly want to become extraordinary at something is to have some driver that just keeps biting into us to get us out of bed in the morning to get things done. And I certainly have my own drivers. I'm not going to Share all of them publicly. But, yeah, I've got drivers that get me out of bed in the morning. And one of my favorite stories is another one is a Michael Jordan story. I think it's in the book Jordan Rules. And, you know, Jordan. And I'm not gonna get this entirely right, but I'll get the theme correct. He gets to this arena, and he's on a long road trip. And, you know, he scored, you know, maybe 30, 40, 40 or 50 points in the last two or three games, and he's just a little bit tired. And he gets to the arena, and he's exhausted from being Michael Jordan about having to go onto the court every single day and to be the best, it's tiring. And he's sort of sitting there and he's warming up a bit, and he's sort of broken into a sweat, and he sort of turns to the right, and he looks at the guy that's guarding him that day, and he knows who's gonna guard him. The guy who's guarding it happens to be looking down at J. Jordan. The guy that's guarding him has Michael Jordan posters in his room at home. He has such incredible admiration for Jordan. So Jordan's looking at him, and now Jordan, in his own mind, goes, huh, you know, what are you looking at? And he's thinking this. Are you thinking you're gonna. You're gonna take me out today? So that's what you're. You're looking down here because you really think that you're gonna eat my lunch today. And all of a sudden, by the time the game begins, Michael has worked himself up into a lather where he's created this impression of the guy that's guarding him, and he absolutely can't wait to rip into him so much. So in the jump circle, the guy that's standing next to him, he starts, you know, already trash talking, so you think you've got me. And the guy's thinking, what is Michael talking about? I mean, I worship the ground he stands on. And Michael is now so chippy because he has convinced himself this young punk has no respect for him. And he just tears the guy a new one in the game. But he had to do that. What he had to do was he had to create basically some sort of myth to get him up for this game because he wasn't into it. He was exhausted. He had done this, you know, three games in a row. So I think all of us that want to do something extraordinary, we've got to create in the theater of our minds, the things that drive us. Because it isn't natural to be driven. What's natural is to be comfortable. And the last thing about being comfortable is getting up in the morning and deciding you want to conquer the world. Because there are parts of you eating away that say, just five more minutes, you know, hit the snooze button, or, you know, I'm gonna have a little bit extra here at breakfast as the, you know, lip of fat that sits on your underwear just gets a little bit thicker every single day. I mean, there's so many things that drive us to be comfortable, because the state of being uncomfortable is a difficult one. But honestly, you want it to be hard. You want all this stuff to be hard. Because what you don't want is you don't want everyone to get there. You want to have the capacity yourself to make. Make decisions that are hard, to become extraordinary. And then you've got to create these things, like Jordan and like Brady to drive you like no one else. And so a part of the platform to become extraordinary is to have different drivers. And honestly, most of them are fictional. But you've got to create your own fiction to get yourself out of bed. And whatever it does, whatever. Whatever gets you there, make it happen. Because this is an important factor for those that truly want to do something extraordinary.
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C
Yeah. And you've got the chance to work with somebody who is extraordinary, remarkable, and Mia Hamm. And when I told my wife I was interviewing you and that you coached her, she was. She freaked out a little bit. She said even as a young girl, she wanted to be a soccer player because of Mia Hamm. And they didn't even have soccer in her hometown, and she wanted to move to the next town because of Mia Hamm. Tell us a little bit about what made Mia Hamm unique. What are. What are the things that you saw in her?
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Well, I had the fortune of coaching her when she was really young. A friend of mine was the North Texas State coach. His name was John Casabone. And all these state coaches. The country is set up so the state coaches are like the first round of Olympic development selection. So these state coaches go throughout their state, they have tryouts, and they pick the best U14 players in the state of Texas, the best U16 players, the best U19 players, etc. They're all these age group, all star teams. And so Kasa Boom was a friend of mine, and he calls me up and he says, anson, I've got this kid here who's pretty special. And at the Time I was a US Women's national coach. I want you to look at her. She might be too young for the national team right now, but please come down and look at her because I think she's pretty special. And of course I hear this all the time from everyone, but I've got the special kids you got to look at. And of course you're rolling your eyes, but I trusted John, so I did. I flew down to North Texas to look at her and I didn't want him to tell me who she was before the game began because I didn't want to be prejudiced in her favor. So I didn't even go up to John. I sat across the field from him, didn't even call him or talk to him. And of course this is in the pre cell phone era, so we weren't all strapped to the world. So I'm sitting across the field and all of a sudden this little skinny brunette kicks off and a ball is knocked into space and she jumps on it like she shot out of a cannon. And I hadn't seen this kind of acceleration in player that young. So I walked around the field. This is like the first couple seconds the game. I said, hey, John, is that me a ham? And he said, yes. I was thinking, oh my gosh. So now the decision was, when do we bring her in? She was you 14? She was 14 years old at the time. So you can't bring in a kid that's too young because then the experience can shatter them and you destroy their confidence. And you don't want to wait too long because the earlier you bring them in and the earlier they can adjust, the faster they're going to get to their potential. So I'm thinking I am going to bring her in, but when do I bring her in? So there were a couple other kids that were pretty good. They were a year older than her, Julie Foudy, Christine Lilly. And I decided, well, to heck with it, I'm going to bring all three of these kids in pretty early. So I brought Mia hamm into the US full national team as a 15 year old. I brought Foudi and Lillian as a 16 year old. And then what you want to do is you want to make sure their confidence isn't shattered. And all three of them had the resilience not to be shattered. And the rest is history. They obviously adjusted to that environment. All three were starters in the first Women's World cup in 1991. They were all young world champions. And of course the legacy of the 91ers is, you know, the first Olympic gold medal in Athens, Georgia. Another World cup in 99, another gold medal in the Greek Olympics before they retired. And so it was just an incredible legacy of these young kids that we brought in that sort of won forever for the United States. And the critical elements in her were her athletic platform, her acceleration, but also the fact that she had the resilience to play with this pressure that a young player isn't really comfortable doing. But Mia, certainly Lil and Foudy as well, they just had this incredible strength to adapt to the culture, and then wrote a piece of American women's soccer history that's just been extraordinary. And they were our pioneers and put the US on the map. And the coolest thing about Mia is her ability to excite the world. She was a very engaging interview. She was extraordinarily honest when she was interviewed. And as a result, you could see her vulnerability during an interview, which just won the hearts of anyone that listened to her and then certainly that saw her play. And she was the perfect icon for us to develop the American women's game because she was such an attractive young woman. Incredibly articulate, very, very endearing, vulnerable, honest. She was the perfect person to be our standard bearer while we were growing the American game. So from that perspective, Mia served all of us. Incredible.
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C
Okay, and just a couple more questions that I have for you, and the first one is you've now 21 national championships. As you look back on your teams, the ones that were truly great, what is it that made them great? What was unique about those teams?
- [36:02]
A
For any team to win a championship, there are a lot of factors involved. And honestly, there is a factor that I don't think people talk about, but it's a major factor. Luck. There's luck in any sort of run. There's luck because there's good luck and the absence of bad luck. And we've certainly had both during some of these runs, and we've had teams that were better than the teams that won national championships that didn't win because of either bad luck or the absence of good luck. So I don't want to presume that there is this some sort of formula that spins into a national champion. But here are the elements that have to exist other than the good luck and the absence of bad luck. The elements are there's got to be leadership. The leadership is best if it comes from the field. And the more leadership you have. And more lines, because there are four lines in the game. You've got basically a line of the goalkeeper line in the back, a line in midfield, line up front. If you can have leadership in all four lines, that's going to put you into a very good position to compete effectively in every game. This capacity to compete is also absolutely critical. You've got to figure out a way to make sure these people are being driven to their potential. They also have to have the ambition of playing for something beyond themselves. The selfish players rarely win championships. Part of the Michael Jordan legacy with Dean Smith is to have Dean Smith help him and certainly Phil Jackson become not just an extraordinary player by himself, but also a player that was a part of a great team chemistry. So that's also a part to have the players play for things beyond themselves for, you know, the, the jersey, for the university, for the, the people around them. There are all sorts of different things to play for beyond yourself. And that also has to be a part of it, which is what's so much fun about watching the warriors right now. You can see a. It's a. It's such a tangible team chemistry. You can cut it with a knife. I mean, they, they play for each other. I mean, they're egoless. And it's so hard to create a team that's egoless because obviously, if your greatest player has no ego like Curry, then what's your excuse as the number six man to be insulted because of this and that? And anyway, so that's also a part of these championship teams. And then you've got to have game changers. The game changers are the ones that can win the games on their own. And we've had so many of them. It just makes a huge difference. I mean, obviously the Mia Hams, the Christine Lillys, but the Heather O'Reilly's, the Lori Kolupnies, the Lindsey Tarpleys, you know, the more recent ones, the Crystal Dunn's. You've got to have game changers, girls that just decide, you know, I'm gonna win this game. And that makes a huge difference as well. And then the other thing that's absolutely critical is the element we were talking about earlier. Each player has to have a certain strength of character, but you can also have a team character that distinguishes itself as to everyone, you know, driving in the same direction. So these are all the elements that I think make a huge difference in any sort of championship run.
- [39:45]
C
Okay, and you've made 21 of these. You won 21 national championships. What else is there for you? I mean, what else do you look at as. Not only as a coach, but beyond.
- [39:55]
A
What are the, what are the things.
- [39:56]
C
You want to accomplish?
- [39:57]
A
Well, actually, I'm working on some more things now. I'm getting older. I'm only going to coach six more years. And so I'm trying to figure out some other solutions to elements that challenge our game. One is we've got to figure out a way for women's soccer to support itself. And what was really cool to read actually in today's paper is the most watched soccer event in the United States of all time was the Women's World Cup. Obviously a part of that was having us get to the final and win it. The crowds in Canada were also very good. The crowd for the World cup final in 1999 was also fantastic. 90,000 people paid top dollar to watch a Women's World cup final. But now I'd love to figure out a way for that to trickle down. So I've hired two of my staff, Jason Cisneros and Britt Bartok, to market our team to figure out a way if we can solve the problem of, you know, no one being interested in women's athletics. And even though you would think, well, there's evidence of this already with the number of people that watched the Women's World cup and the figure is a television figure, it was some extraordinary number, like over 700 million turned on a game for at least a minute or two. So the, the numbers of people that watched each game and I don't know how they came up with this, this figure. So I can't tell you that. But I can tell you this, that in most women's sporting events, in most sports, people just don't care. And I really think that we, women's soccer can be a leader in this area. And I think for us to have real credibility on a collegiate campus and as a pro league, we've got to figure out this solution to get people excited about watching women play our game. And so that's something I want to try to take care before I retire. Then the other thing is I want to try to build a state of the art stadium that is going to help us obviously attract a gate and try to make the, the experience of watching a women's soccer game special. And one way certainly is with the players you recruit and the kind of game you play. And hopefully we'll have all that lined up to help us attract an enormous crowd. But we got to figure out the game changing elements of marketing. And so that's what I want to do in the next six years. In addition to trying to compete for some more championships.
- [42:49]
C
Okay, and then one final question we have. We're gonna have coaches listening to this. People kind of in all areas of life who are wanting to go out and achieve at a high level. Just you with everything you've done. What advice would you have for people who want to go achieve at a high level?
- [43:03]
A
I think what's really critical is for you to have a thirst for bettering yourself, so a thirst for knowledge. So I think reading everything you can is critical. And I don't read from one genre. I read from everything. I love biographies. I love any sort of insight into people that are extraordinary. And so I'm stealing ideas from every platform. You know, sports psychology, psychology itself. You know, biomechanics, leadership, you know, transforming cultures. Like our previous discussion. I try to read as much as I can in as many different areas as I can. I'm very big on data and analytics. I'm trying to figure out ways for analytics to drive performance. I mean, there's so many different things I'm interested in to try to take a kid from being comfortable to her potential. So there's nothing I'm not interested in. I think what's critical for all of us in our profession is to never stop trying to learn about the game. But learning about the game isn't enough. We also want to learn about how to communicate effectively. We want to learn how to motivate effectively. We want to learn how to connect effectively. And this connection thing is, I think, what separated Dean Smith. I mean, he loved the guys he coached, and I think that's important, too. I'm a Mormon, and what was really cool about this one course I took when I was teaching gospel doctrine in my church is they had a. A teaching seminar on how you should teach effectively. And the line in there that really struck me is the most effective teachers, the ones who love the people they teach. And I think that's so critical for a player to sense you really care about them is going to make them so much more coachable. And this ties, you know, directly into Dean Smith. That ties directly into a lot of these coaching leaders that I really respect. And so, you know, there is a spiritual platform as well. So I think you've got to tie all the elements together. But I think one of the most critical things is to never think you know, everything, to keep learning from everyone around you, to genuinely care about the people that you're coaching and understand that your impact on them is going to be best served if you can help them get to their human potential. And then a small element of that is their athletic potential. And once you embrace all that, I think you're going in the right direction.
- [45:55]
C
Well, thank you so much for your time. This was great. I know I've learned a ton. And just what you've accomplished is not only extraordinary, but it's inspiring. And I'll just tell you one last thing. I've had a chance to have your players in my classes here at the University of North Carolina, and I had one I was talking to just recently who I told her I'm going to be interviewing her you. And her exact statement was, I love that man. He's impacted me so much. And so, just to let you know, the things you're talking about are carrying over with these athletes as well.
- [46:24]
A
Well, I appreciate that because I care about them as well. So I thank you. Thank you very much.
- [46:30]
C
Awesome. Thanks a lot.
- [46:33]
B
Hey, everybody. I hope you love this episode. If so, make sure that you subscribe to this podcast podcast and tell other people about it. We want to spread the word. We want to impact more lives, and so make sure that you do that. If you're interested in personal development resources, head on over to coitcooper.com, c o y t e c o o p e r.com and check it out. And as always, go out and live a charged life. You know, one where you're going out and you're pursuing your full potential and earn the right to live all your dreams.
- [47:07]
C
Have a great day, everybody.