"A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever: The Story of Spinal Tap" with Rob Reiner and Michael McKean

Summary

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Earsay: "A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever – The Story of Spinal Tap"

Hosted by Ed Helms & Kal Penn
Guests: Rob Reiner & Michael McKean
Release: November 20, 2025
Main Theme:
A loving deep-dive into the origins, mythology, and enduring comic legacy of This Is Spinal Tap, with co-creator/director Rob Reiner and star Michael McKean, celebrating the new Audible Original audiobook A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever: The Story of Spinal Tap.

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Episode Overview

This episode of Earsay brings together comedy icons Rob Reiner and Michael McKean to examine the evolution of Spinal Tap—the pioneering 1984 mockumentary, its subsequent cult legacy, the in-universe “biography” Smell the Book, a brand-new sequel (Spinal Tap 2: The End Continues), and the art and mayhem of comedic improvisation. The conversation probes the fine line between stupidity and cleverness, satire vs. affection, and how Spinal Tap became a crucial influence on subsequent generations of comedy.

Note: This episode was recorded prior to the sudden passing of Rob Reiner and his wife, addressed at the top with a heartfelt prologue from Ed Helms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enduring Impact of Spinal Tap

• Ed Helms’ Tribute to Rob Reiner [00:01–04:28]

  • Helms shares personal reflections on Reiner’s influence—highlighting the creative and human legacy of his films, particularly their blend of “hard laughs and deep humanity.”
    • “Rob Reiner taught me that hard laughs and deep humanity can sit right next to one another, and they very often should.” (Ed Helms, [01:39])
  • The episode is framed as a celebration of Reiner’s artistry and spirit.

• The Mockumentary Legacy [04:28–07:55]

  • Spinal Tap is identified as the “original mainstream mockumentary” that inspired future classics (Best in Show, Waiting for Guffman, The Office, etc.).
    • “The Office and Parks and Rec and all these great mockumentary shows are descendants of Spinal Tap in a way…” (Ed Helms, [07:15])
  • The “This goes to 11” gag entered the Oxford English Dictionary—a unique pop-cultural achievement.

2. Inside the Making & Mythology of Spinal Tap

• Favorite Scenes & The Origin of the Title [12:03–15:17]

  • McKean cites Nigel’s violin solo and its physical comedy as a highlight.
  • Reiner’s favorite is the “fine line between stupid and clever” scene—now the title of the audiobook/book.
    • “To me, that’s the essence of Spinal Tap. ‘Fine line between stupid and clever.’” (Rob Reiner, [14:13])
  • These moments encapsulate both the improvisational spirit and thematic core of the film.

• The Art of Playing Stupid, Cleverly [15:17–16:25]

  • McKean notes the challenge of embodying characters who are deeply oblivious but take themselves seriously:
    • “If you do that, if you’re on the level, that’s where the funny comes from… the audacity of someone who’s got a very dim bulb up here telling everyone else what’s what.” (Michael McKean, [16:12])
  • Reiner: It’s the seriousness (“philosophies of life,” “highfalutin ideas”) that amplifies the comedy.

• The Reaction from Real Rock Stars [17:04–18:45]

  • Some musicians initially felt “spied on” (Steven Tyler: “Too close, too close…” [17:57]), or “uncomfortable” (Ozzy Osbourne), but came to embrace the film.
  • Sting’s take: “I watch this movie over and over. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.” (Rob Reiner, [18:22])

• Affection vs. Ridicule [18:45–19:20]

  • Helms lauds the film’s “genuine affection” for its subjects: “You’re not punching down.”
  • Reiner confirms: “We love rock and roll… It was a love of the music. And also could find what’s funny about it too.” ([19:10])

• Why the Songs Work [33:30–34:49]

  • Reiner: “The goal was the humor would come out in the lyrics, never in the music. They’re all great musicians… So we never wanted the music to be the thing that got the laughs.” ([33:47])

3. The Shared Improvisational Spirit—“Schnadling”

• Definition & Origins of ‘Schnadling’ [21:03–22:37]

  • A made-up word, coined by Christopher Guest, for playful, back-and-forth improvisation—“riffing with each other.”
  • Reiner shares an anecdote about the term catching on in a Houston prison, where inmates were inspired to use schnadling in their own conversations ([22:32]).

• Improvisation on Set: Staying in Character [24:10–27:22]

  • Stories about breaking (corpsing), favorite moments where takes were ruined by laughter, e.g., Fred Willard causing guests to crack up, or Reiner himself being unable to withhold laughter at “lick my love pump” ([26:21]).
  • The advice: “The mistake you can make is to look for that punchline instead of living in the scene.” (Michael McKean, [27:01])

• Improvised vs. Written ([27:36]–[28:53])

  • “All the dialogue is improvised completely.” (Rob Reiner, [27:39])
  • The “amp that goes to 11” scene: the iconic exchange was not fully planned, only the prop existed; the comic reveal was found in the moment.

4. Spinal Tap’s Storytelling & World-Building

• Building a Faux Rock Canon [35:11–36:37]

  • The group maintained a shared “bible” of fictional characters, band histories, and key events to fuel authentic improvisation.
  • Before recording “Smell the Book,” they crammed on the “mythology” to ensure their stories stayed consistent and richly detailed:
    • “We all shared this history. We weren’t going to get to it all, but it’s nice to have it there.” (Michael McKean, [36:24])

• Flow State in Improvisation [36:41–37:12]

  • Reiner: Just “stay in the moment.” You never know what will make the final cut.

5. The New Sequel & Keeping the Band Together

• Making Spinal Tap 2: The End Continues [37:17–39:09]

  • The sequel explores themes of reunion, aging, and whether out-of-touch rockers can stay relevant (mirroring real-world legacy acts).
  • The challenge: Could a sequel live up to the original’s high bar? The creators wanted a story that could stand alone, but would reward super-fans with in-jokes.

• Upcoming Spinal Tap at Stonehenge Concert [39:27–40:35]

  • After finishing the sequel, the band is invited to play a (real!) concert at Stonehenge, featuring major guests like Eric Clapton and Shania Twain, culminating in “Spinal Tap at Stonehenge: The Final Finale.”
  • “Redundancy is always funny.” (Ed Helms, [40:40])
  • “We wrote a song called ‘Tonight I’m Gonna Rock You Tonight’. So how do you think we feel about that?” (Michael McKean, [40:43])

6. Plot Twist Q&A (Rapid-fire) [42:00–49:13]

• What in your life have you turned up ‘to 11’?

  • McKean: Leisure time (“approaching 100%”) ([42:21])
  • Reiner: “I haven’t gotten to 11 yet” — but parenting comes close. Workwise, he’s still striving for it ([42:51])

• Real-Life Spinal Tap Moments

  • McKean: Playing a rain-drenched Boston stage with electric instruments—“looking at each other going, goodbye, maybe.” ([43:52])
  • Reiner: Summer stock with Albert Brooks, who accidentally exited off a stage with no stairs—classic mishap ([46:45])

• Creative Methods

  • The team used “Grimsby cards”—cards with a news anchor’s face to visually storyboard comedy beats; “Does this merit a Grimsby?” became a creative metric ([47:10])

  • McKean’s “method”: “I just have to keep remembering to breathe… it helps you stay with them [the character].” ([48:48])

  • Reiner likens himself to "the straight man, trying to get the best out of them... It's pretty easy when you’re working with them, I'm telling you, it's pretty easy." ([49:13])

7. Personal Recommendations: What They’re Reading & Listening To [50:10–53:36]

• McKean:
  • Reading: Mark Twain biography by Ron Chernow
  • Listening: Consciousness: What is Consciousness? (audiobook)
  • Favorite narrator: Bill Homewood’s 52-hour Count of Monte Cristo
• Reiner:
  • Enjoys blues, country, bluegrass, and Instagram music clips (prefers longer-form content)
  • Currently immersed in researching/writing a book on the JFK assassination (based on his podcast with Soledad O’Brien)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ed Helms (on Reiner’s influence):
  “Rob Reiner taught me that hard laughs and deep humanity can sit right next to each other, and they very often should.” [01:39]

• Rob Reiner (on the Spinal Tap essence):
  “There’s a fine line between stupid and clever.” [14:15]

• Michael McKean (on comedy):
  “There’s something about the audacity of someone who’s got a very dim bulb up here telling everyone else what’s what.” [16:12]

• Discussion of Smell the Glove / album art double standard:
  “No, the difference is he’s the victim. See, in your album, she’s the victim because she’s on all fours sniffing a glove…” (paraphrased, [14:00])

• On improvisation:
  “The mistake you can make is to look for that punchline instead of living in the scene.” (Michael McKean, [27:01])

• On Redundancy as Humor:
  “Isn’t redundancy always funny?” (Ed Helms, [40:40])
  “We wrote a song called ‘Tonight I’m Gonna Rock You Tonight’. So how do you think we feel about that?” (Michael McKean, [40:43])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------|--------------| | 00:01–04:28 | Ed Helms’ prologue and tribute to Rob Reiner | | 04:28–07:55 | Mockumentary legacy and Helms’ personal connection | | 12:03–15:17 | Favorite scenes and title of the audiobook | | 17:04–18:45 | Musicians’ reactions to Spinal Tap | | 21:03–22:37 | Origin and adoption of “Schnadling” | | 24:10–27:22 | Breaking/laughing during improvisation | | 27:36–28:53 | Improvised vs. planned scenes | | 33:30–34:49 | “Big Bottom”—songs as real music | | 35:11–36:37 | Building a fake band’s mythology | | 37:17–40:35 | Sequel, Stonehenge concert, redundancy in comedy | | 42:00–49:13 | Rapid-fire Q&A / Plot Twist section | | 50:10–53:36 | Reading & listening recs from McKean & Reiner |

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is witty, warm, and reflective, celebrating both the genius and ridiculousness of Spinal Tap and the improvisational craftsmanship behind it. Reiner and McKean’s rapport is filled with friendly jabs, deep creative insight, and a love for smart silliness. Through their stories, listeners glimpse how satire, affection, and “living in the moment” fuel endurance in comedy.

Final Words:
Ed Helms concludes:
“You can find the new audiobook A Fine Line between Stupid and Clever: The Story of Spinal Tap at Audible…” [55:02]
The episode closes as both a celebration and fitting tribute to Reiner’s legendary comic spirit.

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To explore more:

• Listen to A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever: The Story of Spinal Tap on Audible
• Watch This Is Spinal Tap and its sequel
• Dive into the creative worlds of Rob Reiner and Michael McKean through their filmographies and audiobook picks

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Transcript

[A]

Hi there, earsay listeners. Ed Helms here. I wanted to add this short prologue to the episode because I want to acknowledge a difficult situation. Since recording this conversation with Rob Reiner and Michael McKeon just a couple of weeks ago, Rob and his wife Michelle have passed away under very sudden and very tragic circumstances. I want to extend my deepest, heartfelt condolences to their family and. And all of those who loved them or were lucky enough to be loved by them. Rob meant so much to so many people, and I count myself among them. He was a hero of mine, and I don't mean that in an abstract way, but in a very real and literal way, in the way that certain artists shape you and sometimes even before you realize it's happening. Many of his classic movies emerged just as I was coming of age through the 80s. This is spinal Tap, the Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Misery, and perhaps most of all, Stand By Me. These movies, they didn't just entertain me. They helped form my storytelling and comedy identity, my sense of flow and tone, my love of difficult but redeemable characters. Rob Reiner taught me that hard laughs and deep humanity can sit right next to one another, and they very often should. But he wasn't just a creative inspiration. He was also a human inspiration. He was the kind of person you both wanted to be and wanted to be around. He was warm and generous, gregarious and curious, a legendary conversationalist, and also deeply engaged in social issues. He cared about making the world a better place, about cultural values, democracy, and political integrity. Rob had a conscience, and he put it to work. Listening back to this conversation now, what really jumps out at me is how much fun he's having. He's engaged, playful, generous with his insights, and clearly still delighted by the work, even after a lifetime of extraordinary achievement. I'm incredibly grateful that I had this time with him, and I'm honored to share this conversation with you now. This episode is, in our own small way, a celebration of Rob Reiner. He will be profoundly missed, but his voice, his humor, and his spirit will always be with us. And that is quite a gift. I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome to earsay, the I Heart and Audible Audiobook Club. I'm Ed Helms, and I am the host of another podcast called snafu. And with me is the host of yet another podcast. Here we go again, my dear buddy. Kal Penn.

[B]

Hello, sir.

[A]

How are you, sir?

[B]

I'm great. I'm great.

[A]

You are great. Can I just say, Cal Penn is great, everybody.

[B]

Come on. What a What a n to say.

[A]

I mean, you're freaking funny and delightful and incredibly smart and insightful and that's, that's a killer combination of traits.

[B]

I'm glad I don't have these traits at age 11. Again, they were not helpful as an 11 year old, but I do enjoy them as an adult.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's not uncommon. That a precocious child is actually a very charming adult, but man, are, man are they annoying. I'm sorry to have dug up that drama.

[C]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[D]

Guaranteed Human

[E]

boring is out. Explore what fascinates you on Audible. Saucy Romantasy Series Edge youe Seat Adventures, Eerie Horror Exclusive Comedy podcasts. Or maybe you want to hear the book before it hits the screen. Whatever you're into, Audible has you covered. New to Audible, start listening with a 30 day free trial. Whether you're commuting, cooking, or just escaping the noise of everyday life, Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. To start your free trial, head to audible.comearsay that's audible.comearsay

[A]

all right, I'm going to name some names here. I want you to tell me what these names have in common. Are you ready?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Eric Stumpy. Joe Childs. Peter James Bond. Mick Shrimpton. Richard Rick Shrimpton. Joe Mama Besser and Scott Skippy Scuffleton.

[B]

More than half sound familiar and I honestly cannot place it.

[A]

Okay. These are all drummers from the band Spinal Tap.

[D]

Oh.

[A]

Who all met their very untimely drum demise. In the Spinal Tap lore, there was a bizarre gardening accident. There was, I believe, some one of them spontaneously combusted. It was rather dramatic. This is Spinal Tap is of course the pioneering 1984 mockumentary created by Rob Reiner and starring Reiner along with Christopher Guest, Harry shearer and Michael McKeon. It spoofs the over the top world of rock and roll and heavy metal in the 70s and 80s. And it also spoofs the documentaries that venerate these rock stars. Cal, do you remember watching Spinal Tap

[B]

a very, very long time ago? And I should also note it was like one of those 2am in college kind of things. Kind of viewerships, of course, huge Chris Guest, Rob Reiner fan. But it has been a while. I need to revisit.

[A]

Yeah, I have to say, Rob Reiner and Christopher Guest and all these guys, they live in a very special comedy universe. And it's so fun to learn about all of their history together and how their lives kind of interweave and overlap and then of course, Spinal Tap is its own ecosystem. Like, they've created an entire mythology around this totally fake band. And it is just beyond hilarious. And I have to say, it's very much a part of my own comedy development. Listeners, if you haven't seen the original 1984 movie, you should definitely just stop right now and go see it. It is so damn special and hilarious. But as a refresher, Rob Reiner plays Marty DeBurghy, a documentary filmmaker who follows the fictional band Spinal Tap, portrayed by Christopher Guest, Michael McKeon and Harry Shearer. Marty follows Spinal Tap in what I would call a series of escalating mishaps. It's definitely a cult movie, but one that has left a huge mark on pop culture, not the least of which is the Christopher Guest line. These go to 11, a version of which made it into the shorter Oxford English dictionary in 2002.

[B]

That's an accomplishment right there.

[A]

Yeah, I know. It's pretty cool if you can, like, affect the codified language. I also have to say, this movie is widely considered the original mainstream mockumentary. And that, of course, spawned a vast ecosystem of great movies in television, including all of Christopher Guest's subsequent movies, like Best in Show and Waiting for Guffman and so many other great ones. And then, of course, the show I worked on, the Office, that was a mockumentary. I feel like the Office and Parks and Rec and all these great mockumentary shows are descendants of Spinal Tap in

[B]

a way that must have been awesome then to have loved Spinal Tap so much and then get to work on the Office in. I don't know if saying in the style of is even correct, but, like, like, that's so cool.

[A]

It was. The Office was a dream in so many, so many ways, which is a whole conversation for another day. But today we're talking about the new audiobook, A Fine Line between Stupid and Clever, the Story of Spinal Tap. It's written by Rob Reiner with Christopher Guest, Harry shearer and Michael McKeon, and voiced by Rob Reiner, although they are all appear in the audiobook as well. It's a history of how the movie and the band came together, the film's unexpected afterlife, and how 40 years later, everyone got the band back together for the sequel, which is out now. It's called Spinal Tap 2. The end continues. I mean, come on, is that not the best title ever?

[B]

It's great.

[A]

The audiobook also includes an in universe oral history featuring all the actors as their respective characters. It's called Smell the Book

[D]

for the

[A]

uninitiated, that's a bit of wordplay on one of Spinal Tap's albums from within the movie called Smell the Glove. And what that means God only knows. But this is an absolutely ridiculous and delightful and wonderful component of the audiobook, and it features all of the main players just doing their over the top shtick. Cal, I'm super excited for this one. I get to talk to not one, but two. Two of the core people who made Spinal Tap and this audiobook happen.

[B]

Incredible. I am jealous. So I'm just gonna get out of here and we'll talk again after the interview's over.

[A]

All right, I'll see you later. Now, here to get into a fine line between stupid and clever, the story of Spinal Tap is the audiobook's author and voice. Spinal Tap, creator and director and co star, director of Stand By Me, When Harry Met Sally, the Princess Bride, and so many more great movies. Rob Reiner also joining the show, one of the great comedic actors of all time. He is, of course, in the movie Spinal Tap as well as Spinal Tap. The End continues. He's incredible in the great show Better Call Saul. He's in other movies like Best in Show. And just an overwhelming resume of tremendous comedy over so many decades. Rob REINER and Michael McKeon, welcome to Earsay. Thank you. It's truly such a pleasure to have you join our audiobook club today.

[D]

It's a pleasure to be here, Ed.

[C]

Nice to be joined.

[A]

Well, of course, you are part of the incredible team behind Spinal Tap. Rob, you directed that legendary movie. Michael, you are part of the band. This is such a thrill for me because that movie means so much to me. I remember it came out in 1984. I was 10 years old. I was not aware of it then, but very soon after, when it landed at Blockbuster Video, I was like. I'd been hearing about this from the older kids at school, and, like, this is a thing. I had to. And I got it. I forced my dad to rent it for me. And he was like, what the hell is this? He's looking at the hard rock picture on the front. He's like, what? Okay, fine. And we get home, we start watching it. And I'll be honest, as like a 12 year old at that time, I don't think I got half of it. I got half of it.

[C]

Yeah, you got exactly half of it. And we know which half.

[A]

Yeah, but my dad was howling.

[D]

Oh, he was?

[A]

Yeah. And I realized, like, this is important. This is something I have to latch onto. And so of Course, I just rewatched it over the years, and it's become very much a part of my comedy DNA. Truly. And I want to thank you for that, Donata.

[C]

Our pleasure.

[D]

You're totally welcome.

[A]

Do either of you have a favorite scene from the movie? I mean, that's an impossible question, but do you? Does something jump out?

[C]

I used to say that my favorite thing. Because I had nothing to do with it. And it's brilliant. It's about a minute and a half, maybe two minutes. Rob could probably tell me of Chris just soloing on the stage with, you know, with all the feedback and then the violin.

[D]

And my favorite moment in that moment is he picks up the violin and uses it again, you know. But then at one moment, he just

[A]

tunes a little violin.

[D]

A little. The peg. He just tunes a peg a little bit just to get it just right.

[C]

It's a. It's great pantomime. Noisy pantomime, I guess you'd call it.

[A]

It's fabulous.

[D]

Well, my. My favorite. My. My favorite scene. And it's become the title of the book that we. That we put out called A Fine Line Between Stupid and Clever. And my favorite line in the movie is A Fine Line Between Stupid and. It's a scene where Spinal Tap is. Their gig has just been canceled. And they were sitting in the hotel, in the lobby there. And all of a sudden, this very big famous rock musician, Duke Fame, walks in, and they say, hello. And he's a big shot and he's got a manager played by Howard Hessman. And Howard says, listen, I wish I could talk to you guys, but I have to go in the lobby and wait for the limo. I don't have time to talk. I love that. And then he leaves. And then everybody says, what a wanker, that Duke Fame. He's a wanker there. We used to. He used to open for us. He. People booted with. He was terrible. And then the manager comes back, he says, I don't understand. Duke Fame's got it. Because they had an album that they couldn't release called Smell the Glove, which had a sexist cover and they couldn't release it. And he says, well, I don't understand Duke Fame. He has an album cover where he's naked and there's all these women that are whipping him, and that's. And then Tony Hendrew, who plays the manager, says, no, well, you don't understand. The difference is he's the victim. See, in your album, she's the victim because she's on all fours and she's being made to sniff a glove. And then the guys are like. They're puzzled. He's, oh, I see what they did. There's a twist. They turned around and one guy said, yeah, there's a fine line between stupid and then Harry says, and clever. And I just love that. And to me, that's the essence of Spinal Top. Fine line between stupid and clever.

[A]

I think you're right.

[C]

And it's also something that happened on the moment it happened. Conversational. I mean, the entire film is improvised, but it was one of those things we were all kind of thinking on the same track and it just kind of spilled out. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And it's interesting because we shot the film with one camera. We shot maybe a scene two or three times, and. And it. Because, like Michael says, it's improvised. You don't know what's going to come out on what's. You know, it's not going to be matched. It's not going to be like a script where you say the same things. So different things would come out. And in that case, the punchline, which is Harry saying. And clever is off camera. Now, you normally would. You know, you'd focus on that. Yeah, you'd pick it up. But we found this in the cutting room. And I said, well, that works in the tracks. And so. And it works. The joke works, even though the punchline's not on camera.

[A]

It's the title of this book and audiobook, and I think you're right, it captures not only what's so fun about the spirit of the movie, but also, to me, what you have done as the creators of Spinal Tap is to create these characters that are so beautifully stupid.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

They're right at this sort of, like, nexus of confidence, obliviousness and stupidity. But to execute that and to improvise that with such precision and consistency takes a profound cleverness.

[C]

Well, we had our work cut out for us because the people we were doing, the people we were embodying, take themselves very, very seriously.

[A]

Of course.

[C]

And if you. If you do that, if you're on the level, that's where the funny comes from. Because there's something about the audacity of someone who's got a very dim bulb up here, telling everyone else what's what

[D]

and also their philosophies of life and how deep and profound they are.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[D]

What's wonderful is we have, you know, these great albums where, you know, the rock and roll creation and all these very highfalutin ideas about these guys, about how they really got a grasp of the way the world works and the way the universe works. And to be honest, you know, there were a lot of heavy metal rock musicians that were very upset with us because they did take themselves seriously and they're making fun of us. You know, that's not right. You know, we really do make great music and all this stuff. And they do make great music, but it's not as highfalutin as they think it is.

[A]

Isn't that the sort of highest compliment, though? Doesn't that mean that you've really punched the button if they're feeling a little agitated at the parody of self importance?

[D]

Yeah, I think so. And a lot of them, over time got to really dig it.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

I mean, they accepted it and they said, oh, this is really cool. And they love the fact that we were making fun, you know, sincere form of flattery and all that.

[A]

So. I had heard that. I've read about some of the blowback at the time from people like Ozzy Osbourne and Steven Tyler. How real was that? I mean, did they hold grudges for years? Was this something that affected your lives?

[C]

Well, here's the thing. Blowback used to be a different sized animal than it is now. We encountered Steven Tyler, and this was his thing. It was like, too close, too close, too close. And he would smile a little bit, but mainly it was like, this hurts.

[D]

It's so close. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And we heard that Ozzy didn't like it, but it was the same thing. It was like I felt uncomfortable because I felt spied on. But that came down as they didn't like it.

[D]

Right, right.

[C]

And it's like, nonsense. I met Ozzy years later and he was adored the movie and he was great about it. But now it's like, somebody says anything and you'll get 30, 000 people saying,

[D]

did you hear that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So it's a different world.

[D]

I mean, the same thing happened with Axl Rose. And then Slash basically said to him, no, no, it's funny. They're making. And then Axl Rose. Oh, yeah, I see. I get what they're doing. And same thing. When I first met Sting, he was just, you know, hitting with the police and everything. And he said, listen, I watch this movie over and over. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. You know, I mean, so that was like, you know, great compliment.

[A]

The movie is affectionate, and this is what I think elevates certain comedy from other comedy. You're not really punching down. There's genuine Affection for these characters, as oblivious as they are and as self important as they are. And you're sort of having fun with their hubris. But I never felt like there was ridicule baked in there.

[D]

We're the first generation that grew up on rock and roll.

[A]

That's right.

[D]

In the 50s. And we love rock and roll, of course. And we all grew up with that. So, you know, it was a love of the music. And also could find what's funny about it too.

[A]

Exactly.

[D]

So, you know, you try to mix those things.

[C]

So when you're 16, your favorite band is printed on your forehead and it's like it's who you are.

[A]

And every article of clothing that you wear.

[C]

That's right, that's right. And it's all about that. And it's like you look at yourself. What a stupid kid I was. And boy, I was happy.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

I love the music. So I was. I've been listening to the Kinks a lot lately. That's kind of my. My. My pet third band. You know, everybody loved the Beatles, everybody loved the who and the Stones and all that. But the Kinks were always like, so on the money to me. And I knew I wasn't an English guy, you know, from. From Muswell Hill. I was this American kid. But there's something about those days, which, when you're 16, that's what you do. You take on that, that coloration, you know, and it stays with. Or it stays with me. I show no signs of growing up.

[D]

Amen.

[C]

But I just bought a Kinks album about a week ago. So, you know, there you go.

[A]

Fabulous.

[D]

You know, one time I was at this party once for Nick Polegi. It was his birthday, 90th birthday party. And his stepson Max is a musician. He's a guitarist now. He plays with Taylor Swift, but He was with Ke$ha. He's played with a lot of different bands. Nick says to me, you know, he's got a Spinal Tap tattoo on his back. No, really, get out of here. So I go over to him and I said, max, Nick told me that you have a spinal tattoo. He takes down his shirt and in the back he has the COVID of Shark Sandwich tattooed to his back, which is this sandwich with a little fin coming out the. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah, so you talk about having your favorite band tattooed to your forehead. He literally had it tattooed.

[A]

All right, I want to talk a little bit about the creative process. The audiobook details Schnadling. Tell us what exactly that is and the role it plays in the Sort of writing and execution, or even in the origin of the movie.

[D]

That's a term that Chris Guest first threw out long time ago. He referred to the back and forth of improvisation as you're schnadling with each other. You're just, you know, kind of riffing. Riffing with each other.

[A]

Do you know where that.

[C]

Where that.

[A]

What that word means exactly, or where it came from?

[D]

It's a made up word.

[A]

Just a made up word.

[D]

Okay, here's a great story. You gotta. You'll like this. So we've been trying. There's a guy in prison in. In. That's not the funny part.

[C]

Not so far.

[D]

Not so far. But there's a guy in prison in Texas. His name is Nainan Williams. And guy has been in prison. We've been trying to get out for a long time. He's a great guy. He's in there for a crime he didn't commit. He's got three master's degrees, he's written books. He teaches all these young inmates. And he asked me, he said, you know, send me a book. Send me one of the books. You know, fine line between stupid. So I sent him the book, we talked about it. And he read some. You know, these kids, they don't know who Spinal Tab is. They don't know who I am. They don't know any of it, but they're listening to it and they've picked up on Schneideling, says, hey, what's that? We start. And they start. We got to start Schneidering with each other. So you got these prisoners down in. Down in Houston, Schnadling.

[C]

I love it. That's awesome.

[A]

It's therapeutic, for sure.

[C]

Oh, man, that's fantastic.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So Schnadling is. Is essentially improvisation. There's an anecdote in the audiobook about a video shoot that you guys are doing. And the Schnadling sort of starts during a.

[D]

Like an overhead shot.

[A]

They're all. Everybody's lying on the floor.

[D]

Yeah, we were doing a takeoff of.

[C]

This is our debut.

[D]

Yeah, this was a takeoff of. Midnight Special was part of a TV show that had a satire of all kinds of different things on television. You know, we had sitcoms and telethons and commercials. And one of the things we did was this Midnight Special. I came out as Wolfman Jack. And I introduced for the first time Spinal Tap, England's loudest band. And they came out and they played a song called Rock and Roll Nutmere. Part of it was live and part of it was Kind of an MTV video, like cheesy video.

[C]

Really cheap.

[D]

Yeah, really cheap. And there was one part where they had this, I guess, a fogger or a smoke, a bee smoker or something, and it kept leaking hot oil on them.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And we. We had them on the floor. We were trying to do like a Busby Berkeley kind of thing with the legs going. Right.

[A]

But you're getting like a medieval torture.

[D]

Torture.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Of some sort.

[D]

But they started, you know, they started making fun and they started, you know, schneideling. They started doing shtick and those characters. And then we said, jesus, these guys, we should find something else for them to do, not just lie on the floor and get hot oil poured on them. Although. Although, that's all conversation.

[C]

Another conversation.

[A]

That's fabulous. Now, when you guys are schnadling, especially while the camera is rolling, are you breaking a lot?

[E]

Is.

[A]

Are there any bad laughers in your group?

[C]

Well, there were a few scenes that ended slightly early. And Paul Benedict, who was one of the great guys ever, who plays the hotel clerk, he gets into a contretemps with Tony, who's making cracks about his sexuality and everything. And it's like Paul comes in for a day and just lays all of us out. He's so brilliant and so funny. Tony Hendra, the manager, is always carrying around this cricket batman. So he puts the cricket bat up on the counter while he's talking to the guy to get these rooms straightened out. And Paul, the hotel clerk, just points to the bat and he goes, well, you can't take that to your room. And Tony goes, innocently enough, why not? And Paul said, well, it's enormous. That's all there was to it.

[A]

But it makes no sense.

[C]

No, but the little story that we told ourselves in our heads at that moment, started laughing before he even got the rest of the word out. And there's no reason why that's so brilliantly funny, but it was.

[D]

And. And Fred Willard also had a way. Had a way. He was one of the best improvisers. And you can see in this one scene where he's telling them about the gig they're going to play on the army base. And you can see Chris Guest kind of ducking behind somebody because he's starting to go, yeah, he doesn't want to ruin the take. And there was one that I actually went, and that was. Chris totally surprised me. He's playing a piano, very quiet, kind of classical piece. And I go, that's interesting. You know, that's something Very different from what you normally play. He says, well, it's, you know, it's a classic. A little bit to accommodate Mozart and Bacchus. Call it mock piece. It's in D minor, which I think is the saddest of all keys. And it's just simple lines intertwined. And I said, well, what do you call this? He says, lick my love pump. And I went. I went. We had to do that scene over and scene.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I was notorious on the Office for ruining takes for laughing. And there were. Like you described, Chris. There's a scene in a Christmas episode where Steve Carell is being so funny that I have to duck behind a plant.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Behind the plant. For the majority of the scene. But it's part of what's so fun and frustrating about improvisation. Right. Is that the best stuff can get ruined so easily.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's how things happen in a good improvisational company. And there are a few, and there have been many over the years. The mistake you can make is to look for that punchline instead of living in the scene.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Because that's.

[A]

Amen.

[C]

Some of the. Peter Bonners is one of the best improvisers I ever saw. And I never saw him crack a joke or anything like it. He just existed in the scene. Anything he was doing was completely absurd. But he took it dead seriously and he was hilarious and he would never break in a million years.

[A]

That is the secret.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Just to take it all dead seriously. Take it all bitch and not chase the punchlines. There are a lot of scenes that feel in the movie completely improvised.

[D]

Like, they're all improvised.

[A]

Every.

[D]

All the dialogue is improvised completely.

[A]

I guess that's my question. Like, there's the talking about the drummers that have died. And Chris breaks in that, by the way, on the vomit line, which I think, which he says. And he starts to chuckle. But he saves it.

[C]

Yeah. And he keeps it in character, more or less. Just enough.

[A]

But I love it. It's just a little glimpse under the veil. But then there are scenes like the legendary amp that goes to 11, which clearly was.

[D]

Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, we had the prop. We knew that we going to have an amp that went to 11, but we didn't know how we were going to get to it or how it was going to be revealed or what we were.

[C]

Or how you feature something this big in a movie that's a documentary or

[D]

what we were going to say about it. And my. My favorite moment in there is Chris is showing me around all the different guitars. And then he shows me this amp that goes up to 11. And I said, well, I don't. Why do you have it to go to? He said, well, it's one louder, isn't it? And I said, well, yeah, but I mean, couldn't you make the top number be 10 and just make that a little louder? And he had no answer for that. Yeah, I hit him with something that I basically painted him into a corner.

[C]

He made his own.

[D]

It was a long, long pause, and he goes, well, this goes to 11. Yeah, he had no answer for it.

[A]

The honesty of his performance in that moment is so perfect.

[C]

There's another little tiny moment that Chris does. It's when we're in the airport and Janine has taken over the management of the band and she's laying out all this shit about astrology, is telling us to go to this city and not this one. She's rearranging everything. And Chris, who is wearing a cowboy hat for the only moment in the film he's wearing that, she says, have you got this? And he just. Without even really looking at her, he kind of tilts his head and holds up the same thing she's reading from and then puts it down. And there's something about that moment that just says everything. How about you go to hell? But without actually saying it. And don't worry about me, I'm out of here anyway. It's great. Lloyd Layden.

[A]

That's fabulous. There's one moment I have to know if it was improvised. And it's the fabulous scene with Bruno Kirby as the limo driver. And I know that what you shot was actually much longer than what made the movie, but the bit where he starts to go off on Frank Sinatra, and the window between the limo driver cab and the passenger section just slowly rises.

[D]

Yeah, I think that was one of you guys just did that or something.

[C]

Going into the scene. We said when he starts going on about stuff, just shut him out of the world. But we didn't know where.

[A]

So funny. It's just so funny. And Bruno Kirby's reaction was perfect.

[C]

Yeah. There's an outtake of scene where we get his character really high and he winds up singing my way into a chunk of pizza and.

[D]

And in his underwear.

[C]

In his underwear. And then he. Then he passes out. Nearly killed him. So missed a desk by, like, this much in the hotel room.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

But it was awfully funny. But it was just, oh, if we go there, we'll be there for 10 minutes.

[D]

Yeah, we had some great stuff that wound up as they say on the cutting room floor, my favorite thing was. And it's. It just. It was a great joke, great stuff, but it just took too long to unfold. There was a band that open for Spinal Tap at one point called the Dose, which was kind of a punk band. And the lead singer was Sherry Curie from. From the Runaways. And you see then Nigel and her are kind of canoodling a little bit. In the next scene, Nigel has a herpes sore on his lip, and we don't make much of it. The next thing, you see David, you know, played by Michael, and he's also making out with her. And the next.

[C]

And Viv.

[D]

And the next scene, herpesaur. He makes a way. All the way around. And then there's a band meeting where five of them are sitting around deciding they're going to vote whether or not they're going to keep the Dose on the tour. And the four. There's four guys with herpes sores. They say, I think we should try. I think so. And the drummers. The only guy without a herpes toy, he says, I think they're good. I think we should beat them. But it just took so long. And the only remnant, the only thing left is there's the scene where you see Nigel and David. They both have herpes. So we never explain it.

[C]

No.

[D]

And it gets a laugh. For some reason, I don't know, I never know to this day why I got that laugh.

[C]

For one reason. There's this little undercurrent about how close Nigel and David really are and always have been, you know, and it's got it.

[D]

So you're saying it's a gay thing, that's what you're saying?

[C]

I'm saying it's a gray area.

[D]

It's a gay area.

[C]

But Richard Curtis, the wonderful screenwriter and director, I've met him, and he said, you know, spinal Tap's my favorite romantic comedy. He says, it's got the same structure. It's, you guys belong together. And, you know, everything else in the world is kind of a distraction because you're looking for that moment when you were two little assholes on the street corner playing skiffle music, you know. And so it was like, okay.

[D]

Ricky Gervais said the same exact thing when I interviewed him. He said, it's a romantic comedy.

[A]

I love that. I hadn't thought of that. So Spinal Tap is obviously a parody band. The songs are insanely funny, but they're not exactly a joke themselves. Let's listen to a clip.

[D]

Big Bottom Talk about bum cakes My girl's got em big bottom drive me

[A]

out of my mind okay, so the songs are hilarious, but they're also objectively great songs.

[D]

That was the goal. The goal was the humor would come out in the lyrics, never in the music. They're all great musicians. They all take it seriously, and the music is good, like you say. So we never wanted the music to be the thing that got the laughs. It was always the lyrics.

[A]

I'm just curious how you arrived at that. I remember a debate we had on the office. My character was in a production of Sweeney Todd in the world of the office, and there was a debate in pre production. It's Scranton community theater. Do we want these actors to be bad and for it to sort of be silly? And I felt very passionately that even community theater actors are oftentimes extremely talented and they're extremely committed, and that that isn't what's funny about the scene.

[D]

It's a very tricky line to walk because they can't be sensational actors.

[A]

Sure.

[D]

But they can be adequate, proficient. I mean, Chris Guest.

[A]

But you're not finding humor in how bad they are.

[D]

No, but Chris Guest made this thing about community theatrical. Waiting for Guffman, of course. And it's kind of perfect because they're, you know, they're doing their thing. But it's just like the line that we have to tread with Spinal Tap. We love what they do, but we also can make fun of it.

[A]

Yeah. I have the book and the audiobook, and obviously this podcast is about the audiobook. Both the book and the audiobook contain this fabulous kind of little surprise at the end. Smell the book, which is the oral history of Spinal Tap, where you guys basically just live inside the mythology and make up new memories as you go. And it's wild. After all these years, it just. It feels like all these fake stories have just taken on the weight of actual rock and roll canon.

[D]

Before we started the first film, we had a bible. I mean, we knew who these characters were because when you're improvising, especially David and Nigel, if they were kids together from Squatney, they have to have shared experiences. And so we improvise. But we also have the background of knowing who left the band, who joined the band. We knew all those things so we could. We could riff off of that rather than just have to make all that up.

[C]

Right. We did do a little cramming right before we did the interviews for the book, where we said, let's go over this again.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. Are we Gonna get to lesson Mary Chiswick or what are. You know, there are three dozen names we can pick up, you know, we can throw in, of course. And that. We all shared this history. We weren't going to get to it all, but it's nice to have it there.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Like a Gideon Bible, pretty much.

[A]

Sure. When you're in those sort of schnadling moments, do you find yourself in a flow state ever? Do you ever find it just. You feel like, oh, this is definitely going to make the final cut. This is the.

[D]

I never know. I never know what's going to make the final cut. All I know is just stay in the moment.

[B]

Moment.

[D]

Stay in the moment because I'm working with brilliant minds and brilliant comedians and brilliant improvisers, and something's going to come out and I don't know what it's going to be. I never know.

[A]

So it's been 40 years since the original Spinal Tap.

[D]

41, actually.

[A]

40. We're at 41 now.

[D]

Yeah. Or as the Spinal Tap people would call the golden anniversary.

[A]

So, finally, with the film sequel out Now, Spinal Tap 2 the End continues, which is just one of the greatest comedy movie titles of all time. I'm wondering, after such a definitive first film, talk about some of the challenges and opportunities that presented themselves in revisiting these characters. Was it truly effortless, kind of slipping back into this, or did it take a lot of.

[D]

Well, the effortless part was the way we interacted with each other. That always was there, always had fun with that. But the idea of doing a sequel to something that we had all said, no, we've done it. Let it be the high. It's a high bar. You know, it's a really high bar. And we're old. But as we talked, something came out of it that was very real, which is. First of all, the guys hadn't played together in 15 years. So we said, well, what's that about? Is there bad blood? Are they not talking? What's going on? And then the idea of older people still touring or still performing, that was out there. Paul McCartney was in the movie, he's still performing. You see the Stones, you see the who, the who is out there doing it. And the Eagles and Oasis back together. So that's a real thing. And then we had to think, well, what's the reason? Why weren't they talking? And what's the reason that throws them back together? Once we had that, we said, okay, it's a story that could stand on its own. You don't have to have seen the first one. Obviously better if you have, you'll get some of the references, but if you haven't. And we had screenings where half the people had never seen the first one. And they went with this. They thought this was great. Yeah.

[A]

Well, huge congrats on just the universe that you've created and now expanded on even further with Spinal Tap 2. It's. It is a hell of a treat and I hope you make maybe at least three or four more. Do you have it in you?

[D]

Here's the thing. And we can tell you because it's not a secret. No. Well, it's been released to the press that after we finished Spinal Tap two, the End continues. We were approached by the Heritage foundation in England to do a concert at Stonehenge. At the actual Stonehenge.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[D]

And so it was an impossible thing not to say yes to. And we got together, we went over to England and did a concert in front of this Stonehenge. And you know, this Eric Clapton came on and performed and Shania Twain came on. And my favorite thing will always Josh Groban sings A school. And it's worth the price of admission.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty amazing.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Will that be.

[D]

That'll come out next year. That'll be visible next year.

[A]

Oh, fantastic.

[D]

Yeah. And that one's called. It's called Spinal Tap at Stonehenge, the Final Finale.

[C]

But don't give away the ending, Rob.

[D]

No, I'm not gonna do. I won't do that.

[A]

Isn't redundancy always funny?

[C]

Listen, we wrote a song called Tonight, I'm Gonna Rock youk Tonight. So how do you think we feel about that?

[D]

Yeah, there it is.

[A]

Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back.

[E]

Boring is out. Feed your mind with audiobooks, plus binge worthy podcasts on Audible.

[D]

Audible.

[E]

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[A]

to jump into a section of the interview called Plot Twist, where I'm just going to just fire at you some questions.

[C]

All right?

[A]

Spinal Tap's infamous custom amps famously went one louder to 11. What in your lives have you turned up to 11?

[D]

That's a good question.

[C]

My leisure time, it's approaching 100%, and

[A]

I'm delighted you've turned it down to 11.

[C]

No, no, no.

[D]

I just.

[C]

Listen, Rob and I are the same age. We've all been doing a lot of things for a long time, and it's like, really appreciating that. It sounds very corny, very hallmark, but I really do think that me not doing much of anything on a really nice day is better than anything.

[A]

That's fabulous.

[D]

Listen, I'm probably, of the four of us, I would say the most driven. I'm crazy driven. And in my mind, I haven't gotten the 11 yet. I mean, as close as I ever got with. You know, it's a cliche, but you're the birth of your children. I mean, that is right. Oh, that can't get. Doesn't get any better. But in terms of my work and stuff, I still feel like there's an 11 out there somewhere.

[A]

Amazing.

[D]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

Two very different answers.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

All right.

[A]

The band had numerous Spinal Tap moments, like getting lost backstage or the monumental Stonehenge prop being extremely tiny. Have you experienced a moment in your professional or personal life that felt like a true Spinal tap moment?

[C]

In 1984, when the film came out, we played a handful of cities, and some of them, New York, L.A. chicago and Boston were really well attended. Boston was huge. The film played for a year in Boston. It became like, this is what we. When we go to the movies, this is what we do. So we were really kind of hot, and we played at a place called the Channel Club. And I've had this corroborated by people who were there, said, man, I was there the night you played. And did it really rain on the stage? And. Yeah, it did. There was this terrible storm outside, and the stage was drenched, and we're there with electric instruments and I'm wearing boxing shoes. I'm wearing boxing shoes, which have this little kind of, you know, just the. The thickness of. Of Barbara Walters skin. Yeah. And it was like, well, if we go here, at least we're a hit in this town. You know, but it really was. It was like. And Chris and I are looking at each other going, goodbye. Maybe.

[A]

Wait, so this is your Spinal Tap moment in your life is also an actual Spinal Tap moment?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've had little. Little things. You know, when we did all the Way this play that I did in New York, but we did in. In Cambridge first.

[D]

You were great in it, by the way. I love that play.

[C]

Oh, thank you. Thank you.

[D]

Yeah, that was great.

[C]

And Bryant Cranston played lbj. The first scene is. He's having this vision about what the. What? I'm a. No, I'm the president. All of a sudden, JFK's been killed. I'm the president. What am I going to do? How am I going to do this? And then his desk rises out of the floor, and he goes behind his desk and begins the scene proper with other people. Well, opening night, it got halfway up.

[A]

It's Stonehenge.

[C]

And so they. They said, well, maybe we're gonna reboot. So everybody's standing on the stage and they lower it again and they bring it up again, and then it just breaks and it goes, ga. Gah.

[D]

No.

[C]

Yeah. And so then it's like dealing with that. But those are. There's. So in the moments, they're happening, it's horrible stuff. But you know what? Tomorrow night we'll come back and try it again. You know, that's all you can do.

[A]

Amen.

[D]

Well, for me, I mean, I've had a million of those kind of things on stage where stuff goes wrong, but one that just popped in my head. I was in the summer theater in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and Albert Brooks was in the company with me. We were doing a production of Mary Mary, you know, which is a comedy, and we're 18 years old. We're playing people in their 40s with the cornstarch and the hair and all this stuff. You know, they had shows, one a week. You know, they turned the show over every week. So you do a show for a week, you take the set down, put the other set back up. And they didn't get the set quite ready for the first performance of Mary Mary. And Albert and I are on stage and we're doing, you know, back and forth, back and forth. And then he goes to make an exit, and there was supposed to be some escape stairs, and he just. Oh, he just went off the edge and gone. In other words, I opened the door, he walked out the door and just disappeared.

[C]

Oh, no.

[D]

And then he comes back. He comes back and his head was just on the floor above the thing. And he. And he goes, bye, bye, like this. And he went away. So, yeah, those. Those kind of things happen I love the best. Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[A]

One of my favorite little tidbits in the audiobook describes how the creative team used Grimsby card.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[A]

Which were cards with the. The Stern news anchor Roger Grimsby's head shot on one side.

[D]

Yes. Harry Shearer was going with a woman who worked at ABC News at the time, and Roger Grimsby was a broadcaster. He was on camera. And they had a whole stack of, like, promotional cards where they had a picture of Roger Grimsby on the front and it was empty on the back. We used these cards. We had a big bulletin board, and anytime we have a scene that we thought, oh, this could work, we pin it up on the bulletin board and it got to be where if we had an idea and we thought maybe it was good or should it be in the movie or not, we would say, does this merit a Grimsby? In other words, should we commit this to a Grimsby? And so if it did, if it got on the board, it was a Grimsby. When we did the sequel, Michael goes, I. Where did you get those pictures, Michael, you got?

[C]

I just grabbed it off the Internet.

[D]

He got off the Internet. There was a picture of Roger Grimsey, and he had an old stack of Grimsby's made so we could, you know, keep the tradition alive.

[A]

Oh, that's fabulous. I. I feel like somebody needs to sell Grimsby cards to screenwriters.

[C]

Oh, my God. The money will come rolling in.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, what a million dollar idea.

[A]

Guys, this is our next venture. This is our next step. Here we go. All right. Well, you know, it's. It is such a fun, clever, creative technique. Do you have. Do either of you have an unexpected or unusual method in your own creative process?

[D]

God, I don't know. I wouldn't even know how to begin to describe where things come from.

[C]

I just have to keep remembering to breathe, you know, because sometimes if you're kind of waiting for something to happen and you kind of lose the reality because a real person is going to be breathing, I've just. Sometimes I got to remind myself, okay. And it just helps you stay with them. I don't know. I don't have any other style.

[A]

That's a hell of a good answer.

[C]

I've always liked making these guys laugh. And they know I'm a soft touch when it comes to.

[D]

And he does all the time. I mean, that's the thing about Michael and his brain. You know, all three of Them, their brains work in different ways, but, but very fast. And they come at comedy in different ways and you just never know how it's going to work. I'm, you know, I'm George Burns. I'm, you know, I'm my dad to Mel Brooks. I tried to, you know, I'm the straight guy to hopefully get the best out of them. And it's pretty easy when you're working with them, I'm telling you, it's pretty easy. They come prepared to, to get good wood on the ball every time.

[A]

Amen. You guys have, have incredible chemistry and it is so fun to see it still, just to see those sparks flying 40 years later. It just, it's just as alive as it ever was. It's, it's so, so great. Now, last question. What are you listening to or reading right now and, or what's next on your list?

[C]

I'm reading the new Mark Twain autobiography, which is this thick and amazing. Not autobiography, I'm sorry, the new.

[A]

He just put out a new one.

[C]

No, no, not the new. It's not an autobiography. It's Ron Chernow's biography.

[A]

Oh, fabulous.

[C]

And it is, it's, it's amazing. And what am I listening to? I'm listening to a couple of things. I got a book called Consciousness. What is Consciousness? This is fascinating. And so I listen to it at night. It puts me right to sleep. I can tell.

[D]

It's a really good book.

[B]

Book.

[C]

But I lose consciousness.

[D]

It should be called Unconsciousness.

[C]

Unconsciousness, yes. Yeah, but it's a, it's a cool book. And yeah, I, I listen to, I listen to a lot of different kinds of things. I'll tell you my favorite guy. There's a guy named Bill Homewood. Like home H O M E Wood Homewood, British guy. And he, he did a 52 hour unabridged reading of the Count of Monte Cristo.

[A]

Whoa.

[C]

It's one of the greatest things I've ever heard. It's like, I can't wait to get in the car and just drive nowhere just so I can listen to this and do nothing but this. He's brilliant. He also did the Three Musketeers and Tom Jones and a couple of other things like that.

[A]

Wait, how long did that take you to listen to?

[C]

52 hours.

[D]

Michael, do you listen to books more than you read them or do you read more than you listen?

[C]

Listen, I'm starting to listen more than I read, but I still love to just park myself with a book. But at night, you know, if I'm Kind of trying to chill out. I'll plug into something like that. And there's a woman named Sinead Dixon who does most of Dickens, and it's amazing.

[D]

Sinead Dickens. She should call herself amazing.

[C]

And Miriam Margulies also does a great. Does a lot of great Dixon stuff, though.

[D]

You know, I love blues music. I love country music. I love bluegrass. I like to watch Instagram, and what I like about it, because I'm old, they. You know, in TikTok, they'll give you two seconds, they'll give you a full performance of somebody. So if, like, Billy Strings comes on, I'm like, ooh, good. I get to hear a whole Billy Strings number. Or if it's Linda Ronstadt harmonizing with Dolly Parton and Emmylou Harris, you know, I'll listen to all that. Or Chris Staple, whoever it is. And I love. I. I will just listen to those kind of things. That's what I love listening to. And any blue. And any blues guitarist will go from one to the other.

[A]

Amazing. Yeah, we're. We're in the same sort of musical loops there. I love it. Any audiobooks or books?

[D]

Well, books. Right now, you see, I'm in the midst of. Of finishing up a book based on this podcast that I did last year about the JFK assassinations called who Killed JFK? We did it on iHeartRadio with Soledad. With Soledad O'. Brien.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

And it got, like, 10 million downloads, and people liked it. So Simon and Schuster asked us if we would write a book. So we. We started working on it. The two guys that I work with on the podcast. So I've been writing on that. So I still. I'm reading. There's a book that came out about what happened to Dorothy Kilgallen. And so I'm just keep reading more and more stuff about that. Right now. I'm kind of still immersed in that world.

[A]

Wow, that's a good one. That's a juicy one. Well, Rob Reiner, Michael McKeon, it was truly excellent having you on Hearsay. Thank you so much for coming on.

[D]

Thanks for having us.

[C]

Yeah, thank you, Ed. Thanks for having us on.

[D]

Yeah, absolutely. Anytime.

[A]

Yeah, I wish we could. Wish we'd just be hanging out, having a beer right now.

[D]

We're allowed to. You're allowed.

[C]

I'm gonna continue hanging out. You just might not be there.

[A]

You'll just keep talking into your microphone for the next 45 minutes. Well, truly a pleasure, guys.

[C]

Thanks a lot, Ed.

[D]

Thanks a lot.

[B]

Well, that was awesome.

[A]

This was like such a dream for me to just pick their brains and hear so many of the stories as a person that works in comedy, but I just love to hear how other people's brains work and how their process works. And especially material that I've appreciated so deeply for so many years just to get under the hood and just see how that sausage is made. It's really a.

[B]

A privilege, especially when it makes you laugh.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I just find such joy in being able to go into the brains of other weirdos in the best way possible.

[A]

As a weirdo.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

It's fun to learn about other weirdos.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

And you and I are very proud to be weirdos.

[B]

Yes, of course.

[A]

It's a badge of honor. All right, well, you can find the new audiobook A Fine Line between Stupid and Clever. The Story of Spinal Tap Appaudible. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[B]

On the next episode, we're diving into a supernatural romance co authored by Nicholas Sparks and M. Night Shyamalan. There's a haunted house, a ghost love story, a mystery that must be solved. You don't want to miss this.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds quite saucy.

[B]

Yeah, extremely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, we'll see you then. And if you had fun with us today, consider following the show wherever you listen. Hearsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club is a production of iHeart's Ruby Studio. We're your hosts Ed Helms and Cal Penn.

[B]

Our executive producer is Matt Schultz with theme music and post production by Marcus

[A]

Bagala for Ruby Studio. Our managing EP is Matt Romano. Our our EP of post production is Matt Stillo. Our production coordinator is Abby Aguilar.

[B]

And of course a big thank you to our friends at Audible. Don't forget, you can listen to what we're listening to on the Audible app [e-mail] Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free.

[A]

Visit audible.com hearsay until next time, thanks for listening.

[E]

Boring is out. Explore what fascinates you on Audible. Saucy romantasy series Edge your seat adventures, eerie horror, exclusive comedy podcasts. Or maybe you want to hear the book before it hits the screen. Whatever you're into, Audible has you covered. New to Audible. Start listening with a 30 day free trial. Whether you're commuting, cooking or just escaping the noise of everyday life, Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. To start your free trial, head to audible.comearsay that's audible.comearsay this is an iHeart podcast.

[D]

Guaranteed human.