“Just Kiss Already” with Lily Chu

Summary

Earsay: The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club

Episode: “Just Kiss Already” with Lily Chu

Host: Kal Penn
Guest: Lily Chu
Date: May 14, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This lively episode of Earsay dives into the Audible Original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already by Lily Chu. Host Kal Penn and author Lily Chu discuss the audiobook’s memorable characters, unique structure, use of science in romance, the realities of writing and voice acting, and the unexpected emotional layers contained within a light-hearted love story. The conversation covers everything from awkward romantic leads to science communication in fiction, the intricacies of adapting storytelling for audiobooks, and even rapid-fire questions about hobbies, research, and personal anecdotes.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Synopsis and Structure of “Just Kiss Already”

• Premise: Ben Song is a forensic anthropologist running a Canadian body farm who secretly writes cozy mysteries. Lauren Way, a former TV star looking to reinvent herself, adapts Ben’s novel for the screen—only for him to hate it. When his negative reaction goes viral as a meme, they are forced to go on a tumultuous press tour together.
  • [01:10] Kal Penn: “It’s a story about two very different people learning that vulnerability isn’t weakness…”
• Audiobook Structure:
  • Alternates between Ben's and Lauren's points of view.
  • Ben’s chapters voiced by Simu Liu; Lauren’s by Phillipa Soo; the faux-mystery excerpts by Nicola Barber.
  • [03:23] Kal Penn: “You’re getting it from two different perspectives, each in a different voice.”

2. Character Origins and Development

• Ben Song:
  • Inspired by Lily Chu’s own background in archaeology and personal curiosity about death and body decomposition.
  • [06:44] Lily Chu: “I desperately wanted to be a forensic osteologist…so this was a way for me to revisit some past career regrets.”
• Lauren Way:
  • Her showbiz struggles mirror common experiences across industries.
  • [13:48] Lily Chu: “Her experiences are kind of common to anyone who’s worked in a company with other people.”
• Supporting Characters:
  • Ophelia, Ben’s colleague, became a highlight—originally just a placeholder during the proposal stage.
  • [17:37] Lily Chu: “Ophelia…she’s funny, she’s a straight talker, she’s kind of the woman we all need in our life and she’s so good for Ben.”

3. Audiobook Performance as Storytelling

• Dual Narration:
  • Was always intended, to allow the audience to get close to both protagonist’s inner worlds.
  • [08:17] Lily Chu: “I always knew I wanted Ben’s point of view…and both those viewpoints feeding into the story…”
• Surprises in Audiobook Performance:
  • Hearing the actors and producers interpret her words brought unexpected nuances.
  • [08:45] Lily Chu: “What you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence…someone else might say it a different way… those small things always jump out to me.”

4. Authenticity, Vulnerability, and Awkwardness in Romance

• Writing Ben’s Awkwardness:
  • Leaning into awkward moments extends reader empathy and relatability.
  • [10:25] Lily Chu: “Those awkward moments, when they’re happening to you, they do last an eternity… And that secondhand embarrassment…”
• Simu Liu’s Portrayal:
  • Surprised Lily by bringing depth and unexpected direction under the producer’s guidance.
  • [11:49] Lily Chu: “It was nothing like what I thought it would be… I didn’t realize the depth of the performance…”

5. Science Communication as Theme

• Ben embodies the challenge of making complex science accessible—and the tension between facts and narrative.
  • [15:51] Lily Chu: “People are busy…your job is to make sure you can get it as clear as possible… Ben is not able to do that.”
  • [16:32] Kal Penn: “He doesn’t understand why the facts aren’t good enough for everybody.”

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Awkwardness in Characters:

  • "Those awkward moments, when they're happening to you, they do last an eternity... and that secondhand embarrassment... we've all been in at some point in our life."
    —Lily Chu [10:25]

• On Dual Performance in Audiobooks:

  • "I always knew I wanted Ben’s point of view...so we could get close to each character as they're working through what's going on through the book."
    —Lily Chu [08:17]

• On Science Communication:

  • "Your job is to make sure you can get it as clear as possible so that person can hear it on the news… and be like, Oh, I get it."
    —Lily Chu [15:51]

• On Industry Parallels:

  • "Even though it’s in the much more glamorous entertainment industry, her experiences are kind of common to anyone who's worked in a company with other people."
    —Lily Chu [13:48]

• On Personal Research:

  • “For this one, I actually talked to a forensic anthropologist and… a woman who established two taphonomic research labs. So that was great.”
    —Lily Chu [26:31]

---

Rapid Fire Round: Fun, Personal Insights

[19:33–30:43]

• Hidden Skills:

  • Lily’s not shy about her hobbies—she just started knitting and tells everyone about it. [20:09]

• Going Viral:

  • Lily suspects her “what?” skeptical/thoughtful face would become her meme.
    —Lily Chu [23:26]
  • Kal admits to “resting contemplation face.” [23:53]

• Facts vs Stories:

  • Both Lily and Kal identify as stories-first people (with awareness of fact importance).
    —Lily Chu [24:29], Kal Penn [24:47]

• Research Adventures:

  • Lily tries her hand at activities her characters do, like Chinese calligraphy, and travels to relevant locations for authenticity. [26:31]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] Chapter-by-chapter structure and audiobook voices
• [06:44] Ben’s origins and Lily’s archaeology background
• [08:17] Dual POV structure and creative choices
• [10:25] Ben’s awkwardness and writing relatable vulnerability
• [11:49] Simu Liu’s audiobook performance—surprises and production process
• [13:37] How Lauren’s story reflects universal struggles, not just Hollywood
• [15:51] The challenge and importance of science communication
• [17:37] Supporting characters, especially Ophelia’s evolution
• [19:33–30:43] Rapid fire round: surprises, viral faces, stories vs facts, and research behind the book

---

Tone & Language

The conversation is witty, open, and thoughtful—Kal Penn’s humor meets Lily Chu’s candidness. Their friendly banter is punctuated by relatable stories, self-deprecating jokes, and an enthusiastic appreciation for quirky details, both in literature and in life.

---

Summary Takeaways

• “Just Kiss Already” stands out as an audiobook for its dual-perspective narration, humor, and emotional depth.
• Science and romance blend in a fresh, offbeat setting, with themes of vulnerability, authenticity, and communication at the fore.
• The episode is rich with practical insights into both writing and audiobook production, as well as the realities of research, character development, and the actor’s craft.
• Kal and Lily’s conversation emphasizes how stories—even comedic love stories—can lead listeners to reflect on deeper questions about life, connection, and communication.

---

For listeners and book lovers seeking more than “banter and butterflies," this episode delivers both laughs and an appreciation for the art (and science) of storytelling in all its forms.

Transcript

[Lily Chu]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Cal Penn]

Guaranteed Human

[Audible Promo Voice]

boring is out. Explore what fascinates you on Audible. Saucy Romantasy Series Edge youe Seat Adventures Eerie Horror Exclusive Comedy Podcasts. Or maybe you want to hear the book before it hits the screen. Whatever you're into, Audible has you covered. New to Audible Start listening with a 30 day free trial. Whether you're commuting, cooking, or just escaping the noise of everyday life, Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. To start your free trial, head to audible.comearsay that's audible.comearsay welcome to Earsay, the

[Cal Penn]

Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. I'm Cal Penn. Each episode I dive into a different audiobook with a special guest. Last time, Wil Wheaton and I got into his deeply personal new narration of Stephen King's the Body. The the story that was adapted to the film Stand By Me, which of course will also start in it was a beautiful and deep full circle conversation and I'm still thinking about it. This week we're going in a different direction. We're keeping it light. We'll have some laughs, we'll have some romance, but we are absolutely going to talk about decomposing bodies. Today we're talking about Lily Chu's Just Kiss Already, an Audible original romantic comedy that is one of the most fun listening lessons I've had in a long time. Here's a quick spoiler free synopsis. Ben Song is a forensic anthropologist. He runs a taphonomic research lab in Canada, basically a body farm where scientists study how human remains decompose. He's serious, methodical and private, and he secretly writes cozy mystery novels about a Jazz Age detective named Lady Petronella Armitage. Lauren Way is a former TV star. To reinvent herself as a filmmaker, she directed and starred in the adaptation of Ben's first novel, Poisoned Vessel. She's ambitious, warm, and media savvy, and she has a crush on this mysterious author. But there's a problem when Ben sees the movie. He hates it. Key characters have been changed, the science is wrong, and he's convinced Lauren betrayed his trust. Then a screenshot of his horrified reaction at the screening goes viral and it becomes a meme called Fed Fred. And suddenly the film's production company wants Ben on the press tour alongside Lauren to spin the whole thing into positive buzz. So now one person who can't stop talking and one who would rather count bones in a lab are thrown together for a whirlwind media tour, a film festival, and eventually a small town showdown involving Highland cattle. It's a story about two very different people learning that vulnerability isn't weakness, and the producers leveraged the the audiobook format first. Each chapter opens with a short excerpt from one of Ben's Lady Petronella novels, voiced by Nicola Barber. They sound like this.

[Lily Chu]

Petronella raised the scalpel high, gave her lipstick a quick check in the blade's reflection, and thrust it home.

[Cal Penn]

The chapters alternate between being from Ben's perspective and then from Lauren's perspective. Ben's chapters are narrated by the star of Kim's Convenience and Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Simu Liu. Lauren's chapters are narrated by Grammy winner Philippa Hsu, best known as Eliza from Hamilton. So as you move through the story, you're getting it from two different perspectives, each in a different voice. Let me play you a taste of how that works. Here's the moment that Ben and Lauren meet at an industry screening. Ben put away the thoughts of nauseating sandwiches and turned to see a striking woman stroll down the aisle. It was Lauren way his body reacted, as if he'd stuck a fork in a toaster. When Lauren paused beside him and made eye contact, it was like he took the toaster and stepped in a puddle. Ben rose to his feet. BH Denver, he said, introducing himself by his author pseudonym and feeling like an absolute prat. And here is that same dynamic from Lauren's side of things.

[Lauren Way (Character Voice)]

She'd wanted to run a finger down his nose and across those high cheekbones to his full lips. The feeling had taken her by surprise, and she hadn't been able to resist clasping his hands in both of hers. Then the thing she kept thinking about happened. Lauren had been in the entertainment industry for a long time. She was used to the slightly distracted moment when her face and body, her clothes and hair, were quickly assessed, rated, and ranked. Ben didn't do that. His eyes never left hers to check her over, and she felt like she was being seen for the first time in years.

[Cal Penn]

See what I mean? It makes the Slow Burn romance incredibly satisfying. You know, these two are falling for each other way before they do. Joining me today to talk about Just Kiss Already is the woman who dreamed this whole thing up, author Lily Chu. Lily Chu, welcome to earsay.

[Lily Chu]

Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me.

[Cal Penn]

Of course. Thanks for joining our club. So I need to tell you that this book made me laugh out loud on multiple occasions, which I very much enjoyed. It also made me surprisingly emotional about body decomposition research, which I did not see coming. And I love that kind of thoughtful combination. I'm also one of those weird. There was a docu series that I hosted for Amazon, I guess, right after Covid, it probably came out, and one of the episodes was on the death industry. And one of the places we visited was one of those kind of natural decomposition places where they get a lot of land. And it was actually very cathartic and very kind to see people talk about this and explore it without stigma in a way that made me question things. But I'm also a comedian first and foremost, so this does a lot of these. So for a forensic anthropologist who writes cozy mysteries and an actress turned director, how did you land on this combo?

[Lily Chu]

That's a really good question. I would love to have a good answer. But like most of the books, it's a mix of a bunch of things that all come together. So for this one, I actually have a degree in archeology. I used to work as an archeologist. I desperately wanted to be a forensic osteologist. So this was a great way for me to revisit some past career regrets and feel bad about myself. So that was fun. I've always been interested in what happens to us when we're gone. I know it sounds super morbid. It really does. But previous books I've written have been about celebration of life planners and obituary writers. You know, that whole process. And I was reading a book, and I think it was called all that Remains by Sue Black. And there was a chapter about a forensics lab that needed funding. And the original idea was actually going to be a forensics lab that needed funding and the fundraiser who has to somehow raise money for something that a lot of people don't really want to think about, they don't really want to talk about. And that started the whole kind of thought process.

[Cal Penn]

Let's talk about what makes this audiobook very special as a listening experience, because it really is. Ben's chapters are voiced by Simu Liu. Lauren's chapters are voiced by Philippa Sue. And then there are the. And this is one of my favorite character names in a book, Lady Petronella. Excerpts that open each chapter, performed by Nicola Barber. So you have three distinct voices weaving through the story. Was the dual narrator structure always part of the plan, or did it just somehow come to you as you were writing?

[Lily Chu]

It was always part of the plan. I always knew I wanted Ben's point of view, and I wanted. So Ben is the forensic anthropologist and Laur, who is the actress turned director. I knew I wanted both of those viewpoints feeding into the story so we could get close to each character as they are working through what's going on through the book.

[Cal Penn]

Once you heard it, did they bring anything to the characters that surprised you?

[Lily Chu]

Yeah, I mean, any narration always brings something that surprises me because when I'm writing, you know, it's me in sweatpants at on the couch mostly, to be honest. And so then when I hear it, it's in my head or it's my computer playing back. And it's always said a certain way, it's always said a certain nuance. And then when you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence. Like, the cat in the corner is black. In my head, it's the cat in the corner is black. Not the dog, not the gerbil, but someone else might say it, the cat in the corner is black. So the black cat not on the end of the street or at the roof in the corner. So it's those small things that always jump out to me because I never realized in my head I had been hearing it a certain way. And then when they do the voices of the other characters, so not the Ben character, the Lauren character, but the secondary characters, that's always fascinating to me, like how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive.

[Cal Penn]

Ben's also an interesting romantic lead. He's brilliant, he's principled, he's protective of his bones. But he's also awkward in situations that require him to be vulnerable. And I love this. The audiobook lets you sit in that awkwardness. How did you approach writing a love interest who can be genuinely difficult?

[Lily Chu]

I think because Ben is. He can be difficult because we know he is just such a decent guy. He's trying so hard. And I think in that way he reflects so many of us in those moments. And those awkward moments when they're happening to you, they do last an eternity. They just last forever. And they go on and on and on. And that second hand embarrassment that you get when you're with Ben in those moments where he's catastrophizing or he's really just misread that situation to the point where you're like, oh, Ben, dude, come on. It has elements of those situations we've all been in at some point in our life where we have just waved when they're actually waving at the person behind us and then our hand kind of comes down or we're having a conversation and there's a moment where, like, oh, we're not connecting. Yeah, yeah. So I think he was easy to write in that. I have a lot of those moments personally myself, on a daily basis. So it was very easy to write. But it's, you know, he's a good guy, so we do feel for him.

[Cal Penn]

I also have many awkward moments a day. You know, who doesn't? I know him and think the world of him. But Simu does not strike me as the type of person who in real life has awkwardness. He's, like, very confident. He's very driven. You got the chance to see on recording with him, what was that like?

[Lily Chu]

It was fabulous. It was great. It was highlight of the writing process. I usually don't get to see behind the curtain. So once it's off, we do an audio draft, it goes off, and then I will get kind of questions back, but I don't actually get to see the process. And it was nothing like what I thought it would be. When my first book got recorded for the first time, I didn't even realize that the narrator would perform the book. I really did think it would be more of a, you know, a reading. Like you're just reading the book out loud. And I didn't realize the depth of the performance that goes into making a really compelling audiobook. So then when I got to actually see it in action, I also didn't realize with Simu, like, the role of the producer and how much of a role the producer has in directing, the feel of the story and some of the emotion and how the producer's vision is layered onto, you know, the book, the narrator's interpretation, to make this really great story for a listener. So being able to watch him record and watch him say, like, hey, you know what, I want to try it a different way. Or, you know, maybe I'll give it another shot. It was fascinating to me. It gave me a lot of insight.

[Cal Penn]

That's really cool because I think the jumping in and out of the real life exploration and the character stuff, I think of Lauren, right? She's fascinating. Also on her end, she's navigating Hollywood politics, fame, this director who's working against her. She's trying to be taken seriously as a filmmaker after years of being known for a teen melodrama. How much of Lauren's story is about the entertainment industry itself?

[Lily Chu]

You know, a lot. A lot. But at the same time, Lauren's experiences are very common to people in almost every industry.

[Cal Penn]

Oh, good point. Yeah.

[Lily Chu]

We've all had the Job where we've had a manager who has the vision that really goes against what we want. We've had the job where someone has not been looking at our best interest or has been malicious or has actively sabotaged us. So even though it's in the much more glamorous entertainment industry, her experiences, I think are kind of common to anyone who's kind of worked in a company with other people. Her desire to do well, her need to express herself, that feeling of being thwarted when you know something's the right thing to do, I think we've all had that.

[Cal Penn]

I'm glad you brought that up. On the most basic actor level, I always feel like I'm explaining to my non actor friends, especially if they like ran into somebody they recognize on the subway or something. They go, she was so mean. Like, how was she mean? I said hi and she just smiled back like that sounds like a perfectly nice, normal human interaction. I think you're expecting her to be the character that you saw from the movie who's gonna give you a hug, like, you gotta smile. Also, if you didn't get a smile, that would have been fine. Because everybody's allowed to have a bad day in any profession. You just think that because this person is an actor, a musician or whatever, that that person's bad day had to do with being rude to you specifically. So I like that you expanded on, I just think on the meta level of that. Every job, every profession, how human interactions always work. I'm a big science nerd. In real life, I'm not very good at science. I just, I'm fascinated by it. So. The taphonomic research lab is an unusual setting for a romance, but it also becomes central to the plot. Ben is struggling with declining donations, neighbors trying to shut the lab down. He seems unable to explain why the research matters. Was there something you were trying to say about science communication?

[Lily Chu]

Well, in a previous life I actually also did communications for a university. So I have actually done science communications or done my best to. And it can be very difficult to take science that's happening and make it something that people can understand, how it impacts their day to day life. Especially because these days there is so much coming at us at all times. You know, people are busy, they don't really have time to really do a deep dive to learn what that science, what that result is based on. So your job is to make sure you can get it as clear as possible so that person can hear it on the news or, you know, in a news story and be like, Oh, I get it. I get how that's going to impact me or my family or the world. And Ben is not able to do that. He's not able to get the story part of the science out. He's got the facts. He loves the facts. The facts are his favorite things. The facts are the easy part, but it's how you communicate that that makes it so hard and what he has so much trouble doing. But he doesn't understand why. He doesn't understand why the facts aren't good enough for everybody.

[Cal Penn]

Let's talk about the supporting characters. Cause they're wonderful. Ophelia, Ben's colleague, a real scene stealer. Jay, Ben's best friend, has his own arc involving some legal struggles. Emily, Lauren's best friend, is her anchor. And then there's obviously, I've told you this, my favorite name in a character ever. Lady Petronella herself. Lady P. Who exists as this fictional character threading through everything. I'm curious, which supporting character surprised you the most? The writing.

[Lily Chu]

Ophelia. Yeah, she wasn't even really in the book when I proposed it. I was like, there will be a friend, a woman. That's it. So she didn't start to develop until I started writing her and I loved her. So Dr. Ophelia Perez works with Ben. She is confident, she tries all sorts of stuff. She's funny, she's a straight talker, she's kind of the woman we all need in our life and she's so good for Ben. And I love writing a male female friendship based on respect, based on love for each other. But you know, because you love that person as a friend and you want them to be great. So I really, I loved writing Ophelia.

[Cal Penn]

Awesome. All right, we're gonna take a quick break and then we will be right back with more Irsay.

[Audible Promo Voice]

Boring is out. Feed your mind with audiobooks plus binge worthy podcasts on Audible. Explore what fascinates you. Saucy, romantasy, edgier seat adventure, eerie horror, and maybe comedy. Or the latest book to screen adaptation. Whatever it is, Audible has you covered. A great listen can spark your imagination, keep you in the know, start conversations, maybe even change your life. In one easy app, you'll find blockbuster bestsellers, the hottest new releases and exclusive podcasts you won't find anywhere else new to Audible. Start listening with a 30 day free trial. Whether you're commuting, cooking, or just escaping the noise of everyday life, Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. Dive into over 1 million audiobooks and podcasts and find your fascinating. Interesting looks good on you. To start your free trial, head to audible.comearsay that's audible.comearsay

[Cal Penn]

Lily, it's time for a plot twist. We're gonna do a few rapid fire questions.

[Lily Chu]

Okay.

[Cal Penn]

If you're ready. Okay.

[Lily Chu]

Let me take a breath.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, take a breath. Also, it's funny, I say they're rapid fire, but my. As I've written them, my questions are not short. So feel free to, you know, it's whatever comes to mind. They're not yes or no questions.

[Lily Chu]

Got it.

[Cal Penn]

So Ben secretly writes cozy mystery novels under the pen name BH Denver and hides it from basically everyone in his life. Do you have a secret skill or hobby that would surprise the people who know you?

[Lily Chu]

No, I have very few skills, actually. I think my hobbies are, like, I just took up knitting, and when I get into something, I tell everybody under the sun. So there's no surprises, there's no secrets. It's just like, hey, I found something cool I want to tell the world. Also, here's my terrible scarf. I wish I had a secret skill or something. I wish I was, like, really great at martial arts and or something, but I'm. What you see is what you get, I'm afraid. How about you? How about you?

[Cal Penn]

How about you? Okay, so skills wise, no. And I think for the same reason that you've outlined, which is anything that I'm good at, I've just sort of made my profession so people already know. I'm like, I like to act, I like to write comedy, things like that. So there's nothing else there that I'm good at. But the surprising thing, I think a lot of my friends thought I was joking when I told them that I was getting into NASCAR as a sport.

[Lily Chu]

Ooh.

[Cal Penn]

And I really, genuinely love it.

[Lily Chu]

Yes.

[Cal Penn]

Like, I've even had, like, NASCAR watch parties at, you know, at our apartment, and friends will come over just thinking, like, oh, that's cute, I'll stop by for a beer. And they're like, oh, you actually don't want to talk to me in the middle of the race like you're watching this thing. So that's the only surprising thing I'd say.

[Lily Chu]

So I'm super into Formula one, and I also watch Indy and I'm getting into nascar.

[Cal Penn]

Awesome.

[Lily Chu]

I come from more of a NASCAR family than an F1 family, but that is. I would totally come to your watch party and just sit quietly.

[Cal Penn]

You should come. And I explain it to when I get the why? Question. I'm like, because NASCAR is like the NFL meets the Real Housewives of something. Like, the intrigue and drama and the drivers and teams who hate each other is really cool.

[Lily Chu]

Yeah. There's so many personalities.

[Cal Penn]

Totally love it.

[Lily Chu]

Yeah.

[Cal Penn]

Back to your not so much rapid fire. Lauren's breakthrough character on her old TV show Parker High was named Sophie. And Sophie was a hot mess. If you could create a TV character who was a version of yourself with the volume turned all the way up, what would they be like?

[Lauren Way (Character Voice)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Lily Chu]

Well, let's see. If they were at 11. I don't. You know, it's so hard to actually know yourself.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah. Because it is, actually. That's a good point. Yeah.

[Lily Chu]

There's the me I would love that to be and the me that they probably would be if I was being real. So it would be, you know, even me up to 11 would be sweatpants and couch and books. I would probably speak to people even less than I do. So I would be a total hermit. So I think I'm describing the worst television character in existence. It'd be like, just like, watch this woman eat a sandwich.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny.

[Lily Chu]

But I would like to think I would be out and exploring the world and traveling. It would be this, like, amazing travelogue type person who's having adventures.

[Cal Penn]

But I mean, both could be true.

[Lily Chu]

Both could be true.

[Cal Penn]

Both could be true.

[Lily Chu]

Both could be true. But one probably is.

[Cal Penn]

Ben becomes a meme. If you were to go viral for one facial expression frozen forever on the Internet, what do you think it would be?

[Lily Chu]

If it was the expression I make most, it would probably be that expression that's kind of like, what? I can't describe my own face. So you describe this face.

[Cal Penn]

I'm making a little furrowed brow, one eye sort of almost winking. Skeptical. Very skeptical. Very skeptical looking. Yeah. Yes. Very skeptical looking.

[Lily Chu]

And it's not because I'm skeptical. It's usually because I'm staring at something and trying to understand it. But I think that would be it.

[Cal Penn]

As I get older, I am told that I have not resting bitch face, but resting. It's a word that's a little more thoughtful. And I'm blanking on it now. But like, resting, contemplation phase. It's not flattering. It's somebody telling you that the way your face is is not flattering. I'm like, thank you. I appreciate that. Now I'm self conscious about my thinking face.

[Lily Chu]

I feel that's like, that's Resting. I need my reading glasses. Face.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Ben leads with facts. Lauren leads with stories. In your own life, are you a facts first person or a stories first person?

[Lily Chu]

I am a stories first person when I'm doing something. I always think it would be funnier if it actually happened this way or it'd be better if it happened this way. But I will say I am with Ben on the importance of facts, but I just think stories are easier for me.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Lily Chu]

Are you facts or stories?

[Cal Penn]

No, I am stories all the way. In fact, the problem with being an actor is you will generally. I wouldn't even say embellish. I think you just. When you retell a story, you tell it in a way that's really gonna captiv. Your friends who are listening. And so one of two things will happen. If there was a friend who was there for the actual story that you're recounting. They're like, how did you do that? Was really like, you made that a thing. And then other times, obviously, you do embellish, and they're like that. You. You know, I don't think she screamed in the way that you. She was a little upset, but nobody screamed. I was like, no, no, this is my story. This is not facts. This is not Fact hour. This is story time.

[Lily Chu]

Okay. Question on the times where you are embellishing a story.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah.

[Lily Chu]

In your head, when you're remembering again, are you remembering the embellished story? That's better. Or the real story?

[Cal Penn]

The embellished story.

[Lily Chu]

Yeah, me too.

[Cal Penn]

But I think this. I should clarify. This is for things that are innocuous enough that they can be fun and embellished. If we're talking about something serious, like, you know, I'm not gonna cross a line into.

[Lily Chu]

No, no. This is like you went to a mall and there was a juggler.

[Cal Penn]

Exactly.

[Lily Chu]

But, you know, in the story, it's a circus.

[Cal Penn]

Yes, totally. Yeah, Exactly. Good. I'm glad you. I'm glad we. You understand what I'm saying?

[Lily Chu]

Same level.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah. Lady Petronella Armitage loves egg and anchovy sandwiches. Ben deeply regrets giving her this trait because he tried one in the name of researching his character and just found it disgusting. What's something interesting you've done while researching or otherwise preparing for writing one of your books?

[Lily Chu]

Oh, well, I usually do a lot of research, so for this one, I actually talked to a forensic anthropologist, and I talked to the woman who established two taphonomic research labs. So that was. Yeah, that was great. But I will, you know, I'LL go to places where stories take place. I will interview a lot of people. I'm currently writing a book that involves Chinese calligraphy. So I'm teaching myself calligraphy. I'm terrible at it. You know, I do like to try the things that the characters are doing because I think it adds. When you're writing, like, you know, can add in a few details on how it felt to do calligraphy or it felt to try to think of another one. Go to a super fancy town for eat a beaver tail.

[Cal Penn]

Interesting. It's cool to hear that. That type of research is one of my favorite parts of being an actor. So shadowing really obscure doctors. I played a pediatric anesthesiologist, which I understand is not obscure. Obscure. But nobody usually plays a pediatric anesthesiologist. So finding one who was willing to talk to me and let me shadow him, he was thrilled. Cause he's like, nobody ever gets to do this. And I'm like, how do you think I. So there's that kind of stuff. But then there's also like being able to go and be in places or towns or weird things that you otherwise wouldn't get to do if it weren't for your art. Yeah.

[Lily Chu]

And sometimes it doesn't even make it into the story. Sometimes it's. But you remember the feeling of when you were there or doing the thing, and you're able to kind of incorporate that in kind of an ineffable way. And people are so generous about their time.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, that's been my experience too.

[Lily Chu]

Yeah. Which, you know, at first I was like, so, you know, the email, my intro email is a page long of apologies. I'm so sorry. I know you're busy. This is what I'm doing and this is why. And this is my goal. But people, you know, I've had people call me immediately, be like, yeah, let's talk.

[Cal Penn]

You know, the part that I'm so glad you mentioned process wise is the stuff that maybe doesn't make it in. So whenever I've done films or TV shows that are adaptations of books, and the biggest example is probably this film I did called the Namesake, based on Jhumpa Lahiri's novel. And in the film, you don't see my character's college or grad school years, it jumps from high school to when he's a working architect. And so there were a couple of weeks of research that I did up at Yale where he, in the novel at least goes to school. And spending time at architecture firms not dissimilar to where he would have started his job. And obviously learning about architecture and all of that. None of it is in the film, but it makes your performance so much stronger in the scenes that follow. And it's just part of the process that I think is very cool.

[Lily Chu]

Yeah. Have you had a moment where you're about to start a role or start something and you're like, I don't know how they do this. You're just like, how does this person do this day to day? Like, have you had that?

[Cal Penn]

So we generally. You will. If it's something that's necessary. It's just part of the process, either on the actor side, where you'll do the research, or if it's something technical, like I was on a. You know, played a doctor tons of times. But the. Let's say you're doing a medical procedure, right? There's usually an actual medical doctor who's part of the writing staff who would be on set to teach you.

[Lily Chu]

So.

[Cal Penn]

So the times actually where I've had that panic is when you ask four times like, this sounds like a complicated medical procedure, can I come in a little early or can I come in the day before and spend an hour with the doctor? And they're like, no, don't worry about it. We got it. You'll get it when you get to work. And so you're getting to work just being like, cool, what surgery am I performing today and how long do I have to learn it? So, yes, it can be a little nerve wracking. Okay, last question before we go. What are you listening to or reading right now? And what's next on your list?

[Lily Chu]

Oh, I just listened to Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinman. Loved it. Luckily, I think there's like another eight books or something in this series, so I'm covered on audio for a while. I usually have like an audiobook, a physical book, and some podcasts. I read Hooked by Asako Yuzuki, which was. She also wrote Butter. It was. It was a very intense book. I had to put it down at one point and kind of like get myself ready and then go for again. And then on the romance side, I read Crash Test, which is by Amy James, and it is a male. Male F1 romance, which was amazing.

[Cal Penn]

That's awesome. Well, Lily Chu, this was so much fun. Thank you for being a member of our club.

[Lily Chu]

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

[Cal Penn]

Yeah, of course. I love a romantic comedy that sneaks up on you. You go in expecting banter and butterflies. You come out thinking about how we communicate, how we let people in, and maybe a little bit about how our bodies break down. This was a really fun conversation with a very, very dynamic author. I enjoyed it. I hope you did too. On our next episode, I'll be diving into the dystopian genre blending Seek the Traitor's Son from the author of the Divergent series, Veronica Roth. For our guest, it's the author herself, Veronica Roth. If you had a good time today, consider following the show wherever you listen and share it with someone who needs a good love story in their ears. And of course, thank you to our friends at Audible. Don't forget you can listen to what we're listening to on the Audible app [e-mail] New members can sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.com earsay earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club is a production of iHeart's Ruby Studio. I'm your host Cal Penn. Our Executive producer is Matt Schultz with theme music and post production by Marcus Bagala. Our talent coordinator is Allison Pepper. For Ruby Studio. Our managing EP is Matt Romano and our EP of post production is Matt Stillo. Till next time, thanks for listening.

[Audible Promo Voice]

Boring is out. Explore what fascinates you on Audible. Saucy Romantasy series edge, your seat adventures, eerie horror exclusive comedy podcasts. Or maybe you want to hear the book before it hits the screen. Whatever you're into, Audible has you covered. New to Audible Start listening with a 30 day free trial. Whether you're commuting, cooking or just escaping the noise of everyday life, Audible keeps you fascinated so you can be just as fascinating. To start your free trial, head to audible.comearsay that's audible.comearsay this is an iHeart podcast.

[Cal Penn]

Guaranteed human.