Local, an aesthetic: the deglobalisation of fun

Summary

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Economist Podcasts: "Local, an aesthetic: the deglobalisation of fun"

Release Date: June 16, 2026
Host: Jason Palmer
Contributors: Rosie Blore, Tom Wainwright, Matt Kaplan

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the surprising resurgence of localized entertainment across the globe—a trend that defies the expected dominance of global, especially American, popular culture. The discussion traverses music, television, and video games, unveiling why local content is thriving in the age of global streaming platforms. Later segments explore America's cultural and political trajectory in the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s, then close with a scientific report on the evolving efficacy of mosquito repellents.

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The Deglobalisation of Fun: Why Local Entertainment Is Thriving

Setting the Scene: The Roskilde Festival and Danish Music (01:44–03:10)

• Tom Wainwright notes Denmark’s Roskilde Festival features an international lineup, yet Danish listeners prefer homegrown music—“nine of the top 10 tracks in Denmark in 2025 were by Danes belting out lyrics in Danish.”

• In 2019, global English-language stars dominated, but by 2025, 18 out of 20 top songs were in Danish.

  “It might seem surprising that in a world of global stars, a country of just six million people, many of them fluent in English, listen mainly to homegrown music. And until fairly recently, they didn't.”
  —Tom Wainwright (02:11)

• Similar trends are rising in multiple countries and formats, driven by global platforms enabling local content creation and discovery.

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Global Trend: Not Just a Nordic Phenomenon (03:10–03:54)

• Rosie Blore queries if this is just a “Nordic model.”

• Wainwright asserts the trend is global—Asia to the Americas, local content is booming in music, TV, and gaming.

• Key Insight: Rather than a global monoculture, resilient local cultures are reducing American dominance in global pop culture.

  “People who thought that globalization would lead to a stale worldwide monoculture… [are] surprised. Local culture is proving very resilient.”
  —Tom Wainwright (03:38)

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Music: The Double-Edged Sword of Streaming (03:54–04:45)

• Streaming platforms both boost global stars (e.g., Taylor Swift) and enable the “long tail” of smaller, local musicians.

• Distribution is easier than ever, leading to national charts (Europe, Latin America, Asia) filling with local hits.

  “Although these big acts are getting bigger, the fact that it's easier for smaller acts to get published and to get distributed means… an explosion in local music.”
  —Tom Wainwright (04:19)

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TV: The Local Hit Paradox (04:45–06:31)

• While TV is costlier to produce than music, commissioned content is becoming region-specific.

• Hollywood’s global market share is shrinking. Platforms like Netflix and Amazon are commissioning shows for local appeal (e.g., "1670" in Poland, local hits in Latin America and the UK).

• Cost and authenticity are driving factors; localized stories resonate even outside their origin markets.

  “Local hits really work because they have this real sense of place. …That essential Britishness … was part of its appeal to people all over the world.”
  —Tom Wainwright (05:32)

• YouTube trends echo this: “Of all those hundreds of thousands of videos, three quarters of them trended in only one country. …The number… that trended in every country in the world was four.”
  —Tom Wainwright (06:13)

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Gaming: Regional Diversity On the Rise (06:31–07:54)

• Shift from PC/console to mobile gaming is fragmenting markets.

• Analysis of top-10 mobile games in five largest markets: 34 unique titles, no overlap across all.

• Local audiences are now large enough to justify truly regional hits.

  “On mobile, things are more diverse. …As more people take up gaming, there are audiences big enough… for developers to make games aimed specifically at, for example, Latin Americans or Indians, who previously had to put up with the same games that were being made principally for Americans.”
  —Tom Wainwright (07:24)

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Soft Power: The Waning American Century (07:54–09:08)

• Blore: “Does that mean that America's dead when it comes to soft power?”

• Wainwright: American cultural sway is “not dead, but certainly weakening.”

• U.S. dominance in media content is in retreat, though it still controls many distribution platforms (YouTube, Apple Music, app stores).

  “When it comes to the content itself, America, which used to be so mighty in this area, is a fading force.”
  —Tom Wainwright (09:07)

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America at 250: 1980s, AIDS, and Global Clout (10:30–18:46)

1980s: Crisis, Reagan, and Renewal (11:01–12:29)

• The episode recaps the 1980s' mood of decline and stagflation in the U.S.

• Ronald Reagan's presidential victory—promising free enterprise, less government, and renewed national strength.

• Key policies: economic growth, rising inequality, increased defense spending, and nuclear arms negotiations leading to treaties with the Soviet Union.

  “He called for pulling back the state and giving markets a freer hand. …Reagan also significantly boosted defense spending and escalated America's nuclear arms race with the Soviets.”
  —Narrator (11:50)

AIDS Crisis: Silence and Stigma (12:29–14:02)

• Early reports of AIDS as a mysterious, deadly illness among gay men in L.A. and NYC.

• Government inaction, amplified stigma, and religious opposition to pragmatic responses.

• Reagan’s delayed engagement with the crisis only after his friend Rock Hudson’s diagnosis.

  “A mystery disease known as the gay plague has become an epidemic unprecedented in the history of American medicine.”
  —Narrator (13:12)

Financialization and Globalization Backlash (14:02–15:07)

• U.S. economy shifts from industry to finance; manufacturers outsource, leading to hollowed-out towns and rising economic discontent.
• This sets the stage for later backlash against globalization.

The Clinton Era: Scandal and Polarization (15:07–15:38)

• Bill Clinton’s presidency marked by scandal and impeachment but ultimately survived.

  “A government headed by a man who is reckless ... whose recklessness and moral weakness are indulged, is running on empty because it has no claim to the public trust.”
  —Tom Wainwright, quoting The Economist (15:26)

• U.S. politics grows more polarized entering the 21st century.

Tech Revolution and the 1990s Boom (15:38–17:05)

• Birth of the personal computer (Jobs & Wozniak), the World Wide Web boom, and companies like Google and Amazon emerging from U.S. garages.

9/11 and the War on Terror (17:05–18:46)

• September 11th, 2001: Four coordinated terrorist attacks, nearly 3,000 deaths.

• U.S. responds with invasions of Afghanistan and later Iraq, the latter predicated on false intelligence about weapons of mass destruction.

• The aftermath destabilizes the region and leads to the rise of new threats.

  “America had not prepared for the task of installing a new Iraqi government. No weapons of mass destruction were ever found … A deadly new jihadist threat emerged in the Islamic State group.”
  —Narrator (18:46)

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Science Brief: Mosquitoes, DEET, and the Limits of Repellent (19:41–24:28)

The Experiment: Can Mosquitoes Learn to Ignore Repellent? (19:41–22:57)

• Jason Palmer and Matt Kaplan discuss new research into whether mosquitoes can become conditioned to DEET, rendering the repellent less effective.

• Claudio Lazzari’s experiment: Mosquitoes exposed to DEET then fed developed a positive association—seeking out DEET-covered hands over bare ones.

  “To his dismay, 60% of the mosquitoes that had been conditioned with the gentle waft of DEET ... flew directly, directly at them to go and get a blood meal.”
  —Matt Kaplan (21:04)

Real-World Relevance: Should We Panic? (22:57–24:26)

• This learning effect could happen in the wild if people don’t apply sufficient DEET or it fades over time.

• Ample application of DEET remains effective; the key is not to create a “training” situation for mosquitoes.

  “If the protection is ample and you've got a lot of DEET on, the opportunity for the learning to occur is going to be significantly reduced. So DEET is still the gold standard. It's the best we've got, but there is the potential for it to be beaten by people who have sweated a lot or not put on enough in the morning.”
  —Matt Kaplan (24:14)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Tom Wainwright on local music:

  “Local culture is proving very resilient. And as that happens, America's grip on worldwide popular culture is loosening.” (03:38)

• On TV authenticity:

  “[Local shows] have this real sense of place ... that essential Britishness … was part of its appeal to people all over the world.” (05:32)

• On American soft power:

  “America … is a fading force.” (09:07)

• Science segment:

  “60% of the mosquitoes that had been conditioned with ... DEET ... flew directly ... to go and get a blood meal.” —Matt Kaplan (21:04)

• On the 1980s mood:

  “A mood of national decline hung over America.” (11:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Episode Introduction: 01:06–01:44
• Rise of Local Music in Denmark: 01:44–03:10
• Global Nature of Local Revival: 03:10–03:54
• Music Industry Trends: 03:54–04:45
• TV and YouTube Local Content: 04:45–06:31
• Gaming’s Regional Fragmentation: 06:31–07:54
• American Soft Power Waning: 07:54–09:08
• U.S. in the 1980s: 11:01–12:29
• AIDS Crisis: 12:29–14:02
• Clinton Era/Impeachment: 15:07–15:38
• 9/11 and Aftermath: 17:05–18:46
• Mosquito and DEET Science: 19:41–24:28

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Conclusion

This episode weaves together the surprising resilience and renaissance of local entertainment across media forms worldwide, set against the broader backdrop of shifting American cultural and political influence. Vivid examples, data points, and a lively, listener-friendly tone make it essential listening for anyone interested in global culture or the mechanics of pop-culture power in the streaming era. The science segment offers a memorable, quirky coda—reminding us that even mosquitoes have shifting tastes in a globalizing world.

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Transcript

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[Jason Palmer]

The Economist. Hello and welcome to the Intelligence from the Economist. I'm Jason Palmer.

[Rosie Blore]

And I'm Rosie Blore.

[Jason Palmer]

Today on the show, our America at Age 250 Series tackles the 1980s and 90s and why mosquitoes might not be repelled by repellent. First up, though,

[Tom Wainwright]

Denmark's Roskilde Festival is kicking off this June, and the musical lineup there is as international as ever.

[Rosie Blore]

Tom Wainwright is our media editor.

[Tom Wainwright]

It features the Cure from Britain, Addison Rae from America, Jenny from Blackpink, which is from South Korea, and loads of other worldwide acts, from Australia's Folk Bitch Trio to the Pilly Pilly Girls of Tanzania. But if you eavesdrop on the private playlists of Danish festival goers, you might hear a more local soundtrack. The country's most streamed song of last year, He Lein or All the Way, was by Omar and UMLA, a pair of Danish artists. And in fact, nine of the top 10 tracks in Denmark in 2025 were by Danes belting out lyrics in Danish. It might seem surprising that in a world of global stars, a country of just 6 million people, many of them fluent in English, listen mainly to homegrown music. And until fairly recently, they didn't. In 2019, when artists like Ed Sheeran and Lady Gaga were riding high in the charts, only four songs in Denmark's top 20 were in Danish. By last year, that figure was 18. A similar trend is underway in other countries and in other entertainment formats. Worldwide platforms are driving a surprising surge in homegrown entertainment.

[Rosie Blore]

Tom we know the Economist loves a Nordic model, but what's really, the global trend that's going on here, well, it's

[Tom Wainwright]

not just in the Nordics. This is happening all over the place, from Asia to the Americas. We see music charts are increasingly dominated by local sounds. And it's not just happening in music either. We're seeing something interestingly similar happening in television, where people's viewing habits are moving away from Hollywood, and in video gaming, where increasingly gaming trends in different regions of the world seem to be quite distinct from each other. And for people who thought that globalization would lead to a stale worldwide monoculture, this local revival is a bit of a surprise. What we're seeing is that local culture is proving very resilient. And as that happens, America's grip on worldwide popular culture is loosening.

[Rosie Blore]

So we've got quite a cultural array to cover here. Let's just talk about music. First of all, how is the industry changing?

[Tom Wainwright]

Well, it's changing in two quite different ways. Streaming services like Spotify seem on the one hand to be making the biggest stars bigger. So people like Taylor Swift have got a deeper global reach than they ever would have done in the pre streaming era. But at the same time, it's making the long tail of smaller musicians longer. It's making it much easier for smaller acts to produce music and to distribute. Distribute it. And so what we see is that although these big acts are getting bigger, the fact that it's easier for smaller acts to get published and to get distributed means that there's been this explosion in local music, which has seen charts from Europe to Latin America and Asia fill up with a greater share of locally produced songs.

[Rosie Blore]

Aren't the barriers to entry much higher in tv? What's going on there?

[Tom Wainwright]

Well, yes, they are, in the sense that it seems more expensive to make a TV series than it is to make a song. But we're seeing something similar going on here as well. Well, Hollywood's share of all global streaming commissions is falling. And we're seeing streamers like Netflix, for example, pushing hyper local series. Like, for instance, there's one called 1670, which is a sort of Monty Pythonesque comedy set in 17th century Poland. And it's not just Netflix. Amazon has made some big bets in regions like Latin America, for example. What we're seeing is that as Stream has pushed deeper into foreign markets, they're commissioning local shows to help them reach subscribers beyond the elites who might previously have been happy just with American series. Making television abroad is cheaper than making it in the States. We know that Hollywood is grappling with inflation at the moment. And what TV executives seem to be finding is that local hits really work because they have this real sense of place. And so things like, for example, Adolescence, which was this smash hit series set in Britain, wasn't really tailored for a global audience. It's a very British show. But it seemed that that essential Britishness of it was part of its appeal to people all over the world. And we see this as well on new video platforms like YouTube. There was quite a good study done which tracked all the trending videos on YouTube across 100 countries over three years. And what it found was that of all those hundreds of thousands of videos, three quarters of them trended in only one country. And the number of videos that trended in every country in the world was four. So it's incredibly rare, even on a global platform like YouTube, that you have a truly global, truly universal hit.

[Rosie Blore]

What you're talking about there is partly about the authenticity of being properly local. What about the gaming industry, which is really about virtual worlds, not necessarily of particular places.

[Tom Wainwright]

The key change here really has been the transition from PC and console gaming to mobile gaming, which is now the biggest way in which people around the world play games. And that change has been accompanied by a kind of diversification of the way in which people play games and of the titles that people play in different regions. What we see is that on PC and console, there are still a handful of big mega franchises which are popular almost everywhere. Things like what used to be called the FIFA football series, for instance. But on mobile, things are more diverse. And I did a bit of research on this, looking at the five largest mobile gaming markets, and I looked at the top 10 most played games in each of those countries last year, and there is no single game that features in the top 10 of all five of those countries. In fact, across those five top 10s, you have 34 different titles. So quite a lot of variation in games from region to region. Again, what we're seeing is that as more people take up gaming, there are audiences big enough in different countries for developers to make it worth their while making games aimed specifically at, for example, Latin Americans or Indians, who previously had to put up with the same games that were being made principally for Americans.

[Rosie Blore]

Tom, when we talk about globalisation, we're often really talking about Americanization, particularly in the entertainment industry. For so long, it was the US that dominated all of these entertainment industries. So does that mean that America's dead when it comes to soft power? That American sway is really over?

[Tom Wainwright]

Not dead, but certainly weakening in a big way? I mean, over the years, as you say, a lot of people have been recruited to American ideas and American goals by the soft power of film, of music, and maybe to a lesser extent gaming. And America's dominance over these industries is definitely in retreat. We see the share of viewing of television, the share of listening of music and the share of playing of gaming of American titles, all in decline. And I think this does matter to America. It has the consolation of still controlling a lot of the means of distribution. So platforms like YouTube, platforms like Apple Music, not Spotify, of course, which is Swedish, and platforms like the two main app stores are still American owned. And so America controls the pipes of distribution, if you like, and thereby controls a lot of the profits. But when it comes to the content itself, America, which used to be so mighty in this area, is a fading force.

[Rosie Blore]

Tom, thank you very much.

[Tom Wainwright]

Thank you.

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[Rosie Blore]

As you may have noticed by now, this July, America celebrates its 250th birthday. In the run up to that, we've been delving into the Economist archive to look at how we've covered the country over time. Today we reach the 1980s, the AIDS crisis and the start of the war on terr.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

In the 1980s, a mood of national decline hung over America.

[Rosie Blore]

Annie Crabel is a senior digital editor.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

The country's economy had suffered in the decades prior after successive oil shocks led to stagflation.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

If we're going to stop inflation, we must do it now. Not with bigger government. It takes better government. That's what we owe ourselves and our children. That's why I'm Running for president.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

Enter Ronald Reagan, a former actor and governor of California who seized the moment and won the 1980 election on a campaign of renewal.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

Only one man has the proven experience. We need Ronald Reagan for president. Let's make America great again.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

He called for pulling back the state and giving markets a freer hand. Inequality widened, as did the budget deficit, but economic growth rebounded. Reagan also significantly boosted defense spending and escalated America's nuclear arms race with the Soviets. But much to the surprise of its critics, he pursued peace at the negotiating table, striking major nuclear reduction treaties with the Soviet leader, Mikhail Gorbachev.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

Reagan's policies hastened the collapse of the Soviet Union. In 1981, in Reagan's first year in office, doctors in Los Angeles and New York began reporting a baffling pattern. Young gay men were dying from rare cancers and infections that normally posed little threat. This was the start of the aids crisis. The economist wrote.

[Tom Wainwright]

There has never been anything quite like this, and researchers are at a loss to explain it. Most doctors studying the disease think it is caused by a new virus or a new type of old virus.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

Fear and misinformation spread quickly. A mystery disease known as the gay plague has become an epidemic unprecedented in the history of American medicine. Religious conservatives, now a major political force, framed aids as the consequence of immoral behavior and resisted pragmatic responses like sex education and condom distribution. For years, AIDS Reagan stayed silent on the crisis. It was only when his friend Rock Hudson was dying of the disease that he started speaking out.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

Aids is surreptitiously spreading throughout our population, and yet we have no accurate measure of its scope. It's time we knew exactly what we were facing.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

Tens of thousands of people had already died of aids in America, and more would follow. In the 1980s, finance displaced industry as the dominant sector of the American economy. The financialization of the economy coincided with deindustrialization as manufacturers outsourced to foreign countries with cheap labor. But industrial towns became hollowed out. It seemed to many middle class Americans that the rich were just getting richer while they languished. A backlash against globalization was coming. Under Bill Clinton, a more polarized era of politics emerged. Mr. Clinton supplied his opponents with ample ammunition.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

The president was impeached after he lied under oath about an affair with Monica lewinsky, a young White House intern. The economist called on him to go.

[Tom Wainwright]

A government headed by a man who is reckless and worse, whose recklessness and moral weakness are indulged, is running on empty because it has no claim to the public trust.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

In the end, he survived. But as America entered the 21st century, its politics looked much harsher. In the 1970s and 80s, innovation set the stage for a boom in the Internet and tech stocks. Two computing enthusiasts, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, built a user friendly personal computer in a garage in Silicon Valley. After the World Wide Web took off in the 90s, Americans were the first to realize its massive business potential. Jeff Bezos founded an Internet bookstore from his garage. Two Stanford doctoral students, Sergey Brin and Larry Page, wanted to make information easier to access with their experience. Experimental search engine Google. September 11, 2001. A plane strikes the north tower of the World Trade center in New York.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

Oh my God. Thank goodness there's another one.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

This seems to be on purpose. Seventeen minutes after the first, a second plane hit the south tower. Then another hit the Pentagon, and a fourth crashed in Pennsylvania after passengers fought back.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

Today, our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom, came under attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

The attacks were carried out by 19 hijackers from Al Qaeda, an Islamist terrorist group. In all, nearly 3,000 people were killed. The Economist said this week has changed

[Tom Wainwright]

America and with it, the world.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

Once again, President George W. Bush declared a war on terror. Within a month, America had invaded Afghanistan.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

On my orders, the United States military has begun strikes against Al Qaeda, terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

Bush was soon arguing that Saddam Hussein, Iraq's dictator, possessed weapons of mass destruction. And America invaded Iraq six months later.

[Political Figures / Advertiser Voice]

this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people, and to defend the world from grave danger.

[Narrator / Economist Archive Voice]

On my orders, Saddam Hussein was toppled. But American America's government had not prepared for the task of installing a new Iraqi government. No weapons of mass destruction were ever found in the vacuum. A deadly new jihadist threat emerged in the Islamic State group. Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would die in the years to come. We'll see you next time. Time for our final chapter, liberalism in question.

[Jason Palmer]

In Florida, where I grew up, there's an old joke about the state bird being the mosquito in much of the state. Using some kind of repellent isn't an option. Without it, you'd be bled dry. Smart Florida shoppers know to look for a brand that contains one crucial NN Diethyl M Toluamide, or deet, which is way easier to pronounce.

[Matt Kaplan]

DEET is supposed to be the gold Standard repellent against mosquitoes.

[Jason Palmer]

Matt Kaplan is a science correspondent for the Economist.

[Matt Kaplan]

And researchers are working out that mosquitoes not only can learn to resist deet, but actually come to finding it attractive.

[Jason Palmer]

So what kind of research are we talking about that has borne this out?

[Matt Kaplan]

The stuff we're talking about is research done by Claudio Lazzari where he ran an experiment with mosquitoes, a lot like the research that we know Ivan Pavlov did with dogs. He would make a noise and feed the dogs, and then eventually he just made the noise and studied what the dogs did. The answer is when you ring a bell and feed dogs, and then you ring a bell and don't feed dogs, the dogs come to learn that the bell means food, and so they salivate when they hear the bell. It's a conditioning experiment. And Dr. Lazari wanted to know, could you do the same thing with mosquitoes and DEET the insect repellent?

[Jason Palmer]

Okay, so how does the dog work translate to the mosquito work?

[Matt Kaplan]

Lazari, instead of ringing a bell and feeding the mosquitoes, he wafted either pure air with no scent in it through the mosquito chamber before giving the mosquitoes either sugar water or sheep's blood, or he wafted the gentle odor of DEET through the insect's chamber and then fed them sugar water or warm sheep's blood. And after he had done this, he then presented researchers hands, including his own, with two hands in the chamber, one hand coated in DEET and one hand with nothing on it. And to his dismay, 60% of the mosquitoes that had been conditioned with the gentle waft of DEET through their chamber looked at Lazari in his colleague's hands. And when they had DEET on them, they flew directly, directly at them to go and get a blood meal.

[Jason Palmer]

What do we suppose is going on here? If they've been conditioned that DEET smell or no DEET smell, they might get fed. Why prefer the DEET smell?

[Matt Kaplan]

Because the mosquitoes were in an enclosure that had DEET present in it and food. They started to associate the smell of DEET with food. And therefore, when they were presented with a hand that had DEET on it versus a hand that didn't, they had started to view the DEET smell on the hand as the same as a dinner bell. They smelled the DEET and went, okay, I may not like that smell very much, but I know that smell means food and went for it as opposed to going for the unprotected hand, which they didn't have the DEET odor. Therefore Their association wasn't in play and so they weren't going for that blood meal instead.

[Jason Palmer]

So, in short, I need to find a non DEET based mosquito repellent and fast.

[Matt Kaplan]

Not necessarily. The question is, is this happening in the wilderness? And presumably it could happen in the wilderness. For example, you spray on DEET in the morning and you go hiking through the jungle all day. By 3 o', clock, if you've been sweating in the hot tropical sun, a lot of that DEET will have dripped off. So you now have a weak layer of DEET on you and that provides the environment whereby conditioning could happen. The mosquitoes know there's blood, they're hungry, and there's a weak odor of deet. So therefore they go and make the bite and they start to learn. Okay, weak odor of DEET means there's food here. How long they maintain the memory, we don't know yet. But that's a situation whereby this could occur in the wild. A similar condition could occur with somebody being sloppy about putting on DEET spray in the morning and simply not putting on enough and providing that perfect learning experience for mosquitoes to make a bite on someone who's weakly protected. If the protection is ample and you've got a lot of DEET on, the opportunity for the learning to occur is going to be significantly reduced. So DEET is still the gold standard. It's the best we've got, but there is the potential for it to be beaten by people who have sweated a lot or not put on enough in the morning, providing mosquitoes with the opportunity to learn.

[Jason Palmer]

Thanks very much for joining us, Matt.

[Matt Kaplan]

Hey, my pleasure, Jason.

[Jason Palmer]

That's all for this episode of the Intelligence. We'll see you back here tomorrow.

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