Oil pressure: America’s tanker seizures

Summary

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Economist Podcasts — The Intelligence

"Oil Pressure: America’s Tanker Seizures"

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Jason Palmer
Contributors: Shashank Joshi (Defence Editor), Rosie Blore, David Adams (Cuba Correspondent), John Fazman (Senior Culture Correspondent)

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Episode Overview

This episode uncovers the escalating saga of America’s oil tanker seizures amid sanctions enforcement on Venezuela, connecting the high-stakes naval drama to broader geopolitical tensions involving Russia, Iran, and China. The episode then pivots to the dire implications for oil-dependent Cuba, and concludes with a look at the upcoming 2026 Football World Cup, co-hosted by the US, Canada, and Mexico, and explores questions over security, attendance, and the tournament’s political climate.

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Main Segment 1: America’s Venezuelan Oil Tanker Seizures

What Happened?

• US Coast Guard Seizures:
  • Yesterday, American forces seized an oil tanker linked to Venezuela — the Marinera (formerly Bella One) — after a protracted North Atlantic naval chase (03:11–03:42).
  • A simultaneous seizure took place in the Caribbean (M. Sophia) (04:21).
  • Both actions have provoked strong reactions from China, Russia, and Iran, who question the legal basis and view the moves as equivalent to "state piracy" (02:04–03:11).

Notable Quote

"It kind of did look like the sort of hostile takeovers depicted in the movies."
— Jason Palmer (02:04)

The Chase Details & International Response

• Slow-Motion Pursuit:
  • The ship cut its transponders and changed name/flag to appear Russian, trying to evade seizure (03:50–04:21).
  • Russia responded with naval assets, but the US, aided by the UK, acted first (04:08–04:21).
• Sanctions Physics:
  • The Bella One/Marinera had a history of sanctions-busting, facilitating 25 million barrels of Venezuelan and Iranian oil to China since 2020 (05:27–05:56).
  • The US justifies the embargo as part of its post-Maduro policy to force the remaining Venezuelan government to accede to American terms (05:56–06:24).

Notable Quote

"This was a remarkable slow motion naval chase that had lasted for weeks and it finally came to an end near the waters of Iceland."
— Shashank Joshi (03:23)

The Shadow Fleet and Legal Quagmire

• Shadow Fleet:
  • Ships like the Marinera are part of a clandestine network (the “shadow fleet”) for sanctions evasion involving Russia and Iran (06:24–07:46).
  • Practices like ‘location spoofing’ are used to hide illegal oil movements.
• Legal Framework:
  • The US acted because the ship was determined to be “stateless” under international law, due to inconsistent flag registration—making it potentially "fair game" for seizure (07:54–08:49).

Notable Quote

"If you look at [the Law of the Sea], it says a ship cannot just change its flag halfway through a voyage unless there is a really valid change in ownership. This was probably a stateless ship and that made it in a legal sense, fair game for seizure."
— Shashank Joshi (08:29)

Geopolitical Consequences

• Not Escalating to US-Russia Confrontation—Yet:
  • Despite Russian involvement, the markets and policymakers see this as a “Venezuela-focused policy,” not a broader assault on the Russian shadow fleet (09:01–09:27).
• Motives Are Oil and Leverage, Not Human Rights:
  • Trump’s administration emphasizes seizing oil to gain direct access and manage supply, with the explicit aim to depress global oil prices, ignoring traditional diplomatic or humanitarian objectives (09:35–10:39).

Notable Quotes

"The number one focus for Donald Trump is getting access to Venezuelan oil. And this is all part of that broad effort."
— Shashank Joshi (10:31)

"It's a shakedown."
— Jason Palmer (10:39)
"It is a shakedown."
— Shashank Joshi (10:40)

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Main Segment 2: Cuba’s Fragility Amid Oil Sanctions

Cuba’s Dire Situation

• Dependence on Venezuelan Oil:
  • Ongoing power outages (“apagones”), economic shortages, and rising repression are linked directly to the interruption of Venezuelan oil flows (11:47–15:39).
• Historical Context:
  • US-Cuba relations briefly warmed during Obama’s presidency, tanked under Trump, and have only worsened in Trump’s return (13:35–14:45).
  • Cuba’s reliance shifted from the Soviet Union to Venezuela, with the latter becoming crucial after the USSR’s collapse (15:39–16:50).

Notable Quote

"Cuba is at a point of fragility that I've never seen before. Cubans are utterly depressed about their state of affairs...The Cuban government has no intention of going anywhere. It will not bow its knee to the imperialists to the north."
— David Adams (12:51 & 13:15)

• Uncertain Future:
  • With the US aiming to cut Venezuela’s oil supply to Cuba, the economic and political resilience of the Cuban regime will be sorely tested (16:50–17:02).

US Stance and Calculations

• Trump’s Calculus:
  • “Let Cuba fail” — the administration sees little to gain from Cuba, focusing instead on squeezing Venezuela for its oil and minerals (17:02–17:59).
  • Despite expectations of regime collapse, Adams counsels not to underestimate the staying power of the Cuban communist government.

Notable Quote

"Don't underestimate the staying power of the Cuban government. They are still highly disciplined, highly organized...We'll just have to see how much more resistance is left."
— David Adams (18:23)

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Main Segment 3: 2026 World Cup – Worries and Expectations

Concerns about Hosting

• Security and Attendance Fears:
  • Past US-hosted tournaments saw security breaches and low attendance (19:52–20:36).
  • Sharp drop in tourist numbers due to Trump-era immigration policies adds uncertainty for the World Cup’s international attendance.

Notable Quote

"Since Donald Trump took office, tourist numbers to the United States have plummeted. So there are real questions over whether international tourists will want to come."
— John Fazman (19:52)

• Optimism Persists:
  • Despite unease, the World Cup remains a powerful draw and Trump (despite an exclusionary posture) wants people to attend (20:38).

Logistical Challenges

• Tri-national Hosting:
  • Coordinating the cup between US, Canada, and Mexico is “unique.” There are threats from Trump to move games out of cities he deems unsafe (20:59–21:40), but such moves are seen as unlikely.
• Changing Football Culture:
  • American fandom has grown dramatically since the US last hosted the World Cup in 1994. Now, there is "a huge domestic fan base" (22:19–23:11).

Notable Quote

"There is a thriving professional soccer league in the United States now...So in the 30 years since the last time the United States hosted the World cup, domestic fandom has grown exponentially."
— John Fazman (22:19)

Projected Outcomes

• Most games will still be played as planned in the US, but Canadian and Mexican venues might enjoy greater sell-outs if anxieties linger (21:52).
• While the risk of a disaster remains, the expectation is for a successful, well-attended tournament (23:17–23:31).

"I suspect that with the eyes of the world on the United States, the administration, the fans and FIFA will rise to the occasion and we'll have a successful and very well attended World Cup."
— John Fazman (23:17)

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Memorable Moments & Powerful Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On State Piracy:

  "State level piracy. He called it, putting Somali pirates in the US Coast Guard in the same sentence."
  — Russian expert on US actions, quoted by Jason Palmer (02:19)

• On US Motivations:

  "It's very, very simple. It is American access to oil, in his words, to push global oil prices down, which is pretty ambitious."
  — Shashank Joshi on Trump’s policy (09:43)

• On Cuba’s Plight:

  "Life in Cuba had been getting progressively more and more difficult. The belt has just been tightened and tightened. Shortages of basic food has gotten more acute. And then the big thing in the last year and a half in particular has been these power outages."
  — David Adams (14:49–15:32)

• On Football Fandom:

  "In the 30 years since the last time the United States hosted the World cup, domestic fandom has grown exponentially."
  — John Fazman (22:44)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:05–02:04: Episode theme introduction: Cuba’s power crisis, Venezuelan oil, US measures
• 03:11–09:35: Oil tanker seizing, shadow fleet, geopolitical dynamics (Shashank Joshi)
• 11:47–18:43: Cuban dependency, social impact, historical context (David Adams)
• 19:03–23:33: 2026 World Cup anxieties, US image, changing fandom (John Fazman)

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Tone & Style Notes

• Objective but Wry: The hosts maintain classic Economist detachment, but wryly observe the “movie-style” drama and absurdities in recent global affairs.
• Direct Attribution: Guests and journalists offer analysis, but don’t shy from blunt assessments, e.g., calling US actions a “shakedown” or “state piracy.”
• Global Context: Even as individual stories unfold, the narrative keeps linking back to larger geopolitical themes: great power rivalry, sanctions evasion, and domestic consequences in places like Cuba.

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Summary

This episode vividly explores America’s aggressive approach to enforcing oil sanctions on Venezuela and details the complex web of international actors, legal nuances, and economic motivations at play, all animated through real-life naval chases and diplomatic sparring. It then grounds these global games in concrete local impact, spotlighting Cuba’s worsening blackout-induced misery and political resilience. The show closes with a forward-looking, measured debate on whether the world will embrace or avoid the US during the politically charged 2026 World Cup.

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Transcript

[Schneider Electric Narrator]

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[David Adams]

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[John Fazman]

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[Jason Palmer]

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[John Fazman]

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[Shashank Joshi]

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[Shashank Joshi]

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[Jason Palmer]

The Economist. Hello and welcome to the Intelligence from the Economist. I'm Jason Palmer.

[Rosie Blore]

And I'm Rosie Blore. Every weekday we provide a fresh perspective on the events shaping your world.

[Jason Palmer]

The grim standard of living in Cuba has been slipping further recently, due in large part to ever increasing power cuts. It was Venezuelan oil that was keeping the lights on. So what happens now that America seeks to control that light line?

[Rosie Blore]

And this year's Football World cup will be jointly hosted by America, Canada and Mexico as part of our World Ahead series. We ask why some people are so pessimistic about the 2026 tournament.

[Jason Palmer]

But first, American forces did something yesterday that they'd already done back in December, seizing an oil tanker with links to Venezuela. This time, though, the international reaction was telling. Mao Ning, a spokesperson for China's Ministry of Foreign affairs, questioned the legal basis of the seizure. She pointed out there was no authorization from the UN Security Council. Vasily Dandikhin, a Russian military expert, put it more pointedly. State level piracy. He called it, putting Somali pirates in the US Coast Guard in the same sentence. Now, China, Russia and Iran and others have a vested interest in this story. And in truth, it kind of did look like the sort of hostile takeovers depicted in the movies.

[Shashank Joshi]

Yesterday, US Forces were seen descending on a helicopter, landing on a ship in the North Atlantic and seizing it.

[Jason Palmer]

Shashank Joshi is the Economist's defense editor.

[Shashank Joshi]

It was a U.S. coast Guard that boarded the Marinera oil tanker that was previously known as the Bela one. This was A remarkable slow motion naval chase that had lasted for weeks and it finally came to an end near the waters of Iceland.

[Jason Palmer]

Yeah, I heard you describe the chase as the O.J. simpson of the North Atlantic. Talk me through it.

[Shashank Joshi]

Yeah, well, look, so what happened basically, Jason, is last month the US Coast Guard, which is tightening this quarantine that has been declared on Venezuela at the time. Remember, this is prior to that shock operation to seize Nicolas Maduro in Caracas. They attempted to board the Bella One to say to Venezuela, you can't send any sanctioned oil out of your waters. And they tried to do it, but they failed because the Coast Guard didn't have the specialist boarding cruise that it needed at the time. So then the Bella One basically makes a run for it. It shuts off its transponders, you can't see it on ship tracking websites and it turns up in the Atlantic. And not only does it turn up in the Atlantic, it's got a new name, the Marinara. And it has, in almost comic fashion, hastily painted a Russian flag on the side of the hull and has been re registered in Russia's maritime registry to say, hey, I'm Russian, you can't touch me. Then what happened is you can see separately this massive influx of US military forces heading to the uk and everyone's thinking, what is going on? What are these capabilities? And it turns out basically they're the helicopters, the forces, the troops you would need to conduct this kind of operation. The Russians sent a submarine and other naval assets to protect the Bello One, but basically the Americans got there first, they were helped by the British and America goes and nabs this ship. The second one they have done yesterday because they also grab another one called the M. Sophia in Caribbean waters yesterday as well.

[Jason Palmer]

But just to be clear, America has an interest in these ships because they are carrying Venezuelan oil.

[Shashank Joshi]

Well, this one wasn't carrying any oil, Venezuelan or otherwise. I think it had been carrying Iranian oil originally, but it probably unloaded that at some point. But the ship is very dodgy. So basically it was placed under sanctions in 2024 by the United States. That was for its involvement in a company that was alleged to be a front for his, which is the Lebanese militant group. And it has moved, I think somewhere in the region of like 25 million barrels of Iranian and Venezuelan oil to China since 2020 or so. And the reason America is going for these ships is basically because having toppled Nicolas Maduro and said it's going to run Venezuela, what it's basically saying is it will run Venezuela by Maintaining an oil embargo on the country to force the rump government to submit to its will. And this along other steps that it's taking to control Venezuelan oil is one aspect of that post raid governance of the country.

[Jason Palmer]

But there's a lot more going on here than a Venezuelan oil embargo. We've already had mention of Iran, of China, of Russia now and Russia backing up this ship. Talk me through the network that's going on here.

[Shashank Joshi]

What was interesting when John Healey, the UK Defence Secretary was justifying British involvement in this raid was the way he described it. He says the ship had a nefarious history and he said it was part of a Russian Iranian act axis of sanctions evasion, which is fueling terrorism, conflict and misery. This is part of what's called a shadow fleet which Russia has also used extensively to move oil in defiance of many international and US and European sanctions. So for example, this ship was spotted last August in Iran. It loaded Iranian oil at a place called Kharg Island. But as it was doing it, Jason, it broadcast false location data that's called spoofing to basically imply it was somewhere way further south. So it was basically doing this in a very clandestine way. So you can see how this is an interesting worked example of the nexus between Russia, Iran, Venezuela in a very real tangible way. It's not just some kind of geopolitical alliance, it's an actual thing involving ships, oil, energy sanctions busting in a very real sense on the high seas, sanctions.

[Jason Palmer]

Busting and location spoofing and all of it essentially illegal behavior that justifies what the Americans have done.

[Shashank Joshi]

Well, not exactly. I mean these are American sanctions, European sanctions, they're not UN sanctions. And just having domestic sanctions against a ship doesn't give you the right to go and seize it anywhere on the high seas. There is something that does though, because the Bello one originally claimed to be flying the flag of Guiana. Now all ships have to fly a flag. That's a requirement of under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. If they don't fly a flag or if they fly a false flag, they are stateless and they can be boarded. Guyana denied that this was a valid flag. And basically what happened in December was the ship said actually we are a Russian flagged. But if you look at unclos, if you look at this body of law, it says a ship cannot just change its flag halfway through a voyage unless there is a really valid change in ownership. This was probably a stateless ship and that made it in a Legal sense, fair game for seizure.

[Jason Palmer]

Does that suggest to you that once this shadow fleet comes out of the shadows, it is revealed as Russian backed, that we're heading now towards a more direct conflict between America and Russia as regards these ships?

[Shashank Joshi]

Interestingly, no. And I thought it was striking that the raids had very little impact on global oil markets. Which tells you this is a Venezuela focused policy. Yes, it involves a ship that claims a Russian flag. Yes, Russia sent naval assets to protect it. But this is an indication Trump is going after Venezuela linked oil. This is not a suggestion. He is going to go after what Europeans are really concerned about, which is the Russian shadow fleet more broadly.

[Jason Palmer]

So what you expect from here on out is simply more of the Venezuelan oil to be seized rather than for the shadow fleet to be tackled in.

[Shashank Joshi]

Its entirety and not just seized. Because there's a lot of other strange stuff going on around Venezuela's oil markets. You know, President Trump has said very, very clearly his aim in Venezuela is not human rights. It's not a release of political prisoners. It's not a, you know, early elections to a new regime and a free Venezuela. It's very, very simple. It is American access to oil, in his words, to push global oil prices down, which is pretty ambitious. But what was interesting is yesterday he kind of outlined this slightly madcap scheme and he said Venezuela would be turning over up to 50 million barrels of oil worth around $2.8 billion to the United States. He said that would be sold and the proceeds would be, and I'm quoting, controlled by me, to ensure it's used to benefit the people of Venezuela and the United States, exclamation mark. But I don't know what cut Trump plans to take. What's very, very clear to me though is that after the toppling of Maduro, after this great Venezuelan gambit, the number one focus for Donald Trump is getting access to Venezuelan oil. And this is all part of that broad effort.

[Jason Palmer]

It's a shakedown.

[Shashank Joshi]

It is a shakedown. And I heard yesterday, heard David Frum, who was George W. Bush's speechwriter, I think, describe this as the United States devolving into high tech piracy.

[Jason Palmer]

Thanks very much for joining us, Zhuzhong.

[Shashank Joshi]

Thanks so much, Jason.

[Schneider Electric Narrator]

Are you trying to seize the value from AI? Schneider Electric electrifies automates and digitalizes every industry, business and home, driving efficiency and sustainability for all. Listen to their AI at Scale podcast to hear from AI experts and to get the answers and practical examples of AI for energy and industry. Search AI at Scale podcast by Schneider Electric today.

[Jason Palmer]

While American forces chase Venezuelan oil all over the map, there's one country in particular that'll soon be feeling the pinch. Well, even more of a pinch. Cuba is more dependent on that oil than perhaps any other country. Cutting it off would make a weakened regime weaker, and the Trump administration knows it. Suffice it to say, you know, Cuba is a disaster. It's Secretary of State Marco Rubio, himself a second generation Cuban American, has taken aim at the country's communist rulers for much of his career. Yeah, look, if I lived in Havana.

[John Fazman]

And I was in the government, I'd.

[Jason Palmer]

Be concerned at least a little bit. The oil part of this Venezuela story has all kinds of tendrils to it, from that plain shakedown to how it might affect great power competition. But for a near neighbor and old adversary of America, it might be existential.

[David Adams]

Relations between Cuba and the United States have always been tense, but this is different.

[Jason Palmer]

David Adams writes about Cuba for the Economist.

[David Adams]

Cuba is at a point of fragility that I've never seen before. Cubans are utterly depressed about their state of affairs. They're fearful that what's coming this year is going to be more scarcity, more power cuts, and possibly more repression, too, because the Cuban government has no intention of going anywhere. It will not bow its knee to the imperialists to the north.

[Jason Palmer]

But let's wind back just a bit. At least in the past few years, it seemed that relations had been improving. What's a sort of potted history of how we got to where we are right now?

[David Adams]

Well, yes, after decades of US Trade embargo and Cuban resistance and reliance on foreign allies, the Soviet Union, then Venezuela a little bit China today, still a little bit Russia. That appeared in 2014 when President Obama announced his opening with Cuba. That appeared to be a new chapter. Diplomatic relations were restored. Americans were encouraged to go to Cuba for the first time. Cruise ships were sailing from Miami. Tourism was booming in Cuba. But it didn't last very long. And then President Trump became president and everything came to a screeching halt. And then on top of that came Covid, which just completely devastated the Cuban tourism industry, which is what they'd been banking on to be the new economic lifeline. They invested heavily in hotels. Those hotels were all now sitting empty. And President Biden, he really didn't give the Cubans much to play with. And now back with President Trump for a second term. We've seen the pressure ratcheting up.

[Jason Palmer]

And what is the situation on the ground for ordinary Cubans?

[David Adams]

Well, look, even before the events of Last weekend, life in Cuba had been getting progressively more and more difficult. The belt has just been tightened and tightened. Shortages of basic food has gotten more acute. And then the big thing in the last year and a half in particular has been these power outages, what they call apagones in Cuba. And these aren't like the power goes off for five minutes. The power goes off for five, six, seven, eight hours a day. The big fear is that these power cuts are going to get longer and longer and it's going to be more and more difficult.

[Jason Palmer]

And before the events of this weekend, in what way was Venezuela involved in keeping, well, keeping the lights on in Cuba?

[David Adams]

Well, very much after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1990, Cuba went through this terrible decade, really, which they called the special period of utter scarcity. And then in December 1998, Commandante Hugo Chavez was elected President of Venezuela and a socialist and a close ally of Fidel Castro in Cuba. And so President Chavez taking office through to his death in 2013, Cuba had a very steady ally and a very steady supply of oil. President Nicolas Maduro took over in 2013, and things went from bad to worse in Venezuela. And Cuba's thermoelectric power plants are very antiquated, and this heavy fuel oil that comes from Venezuela is very corrosive. And they've been having incredible problems keeping these thermoelectric power plants running. Now, the new president, Del C. Rodriguez. One assumes that President Trump is going to demand that President Delsey Rodriguez turns that off.

[Jason Palmer]

But Donald Trump has various points suggested that he thinks Cuba is failing and that it can now fail more freely in the sort of vacuum left by Mr. Maduro's removal. Do you read anything into that?

[David Adams]

What I read into that is that President Trump doesn't actually see an awful lot to be gained in Cuba. He famously likes to do things on a quid pro quo basis. So Venezuela has oil and has other minerals. It has a lot of gold. It's got potentially quite a bit to offer. Cuba doesn't really have anything to offer other than potentially interesting retail market for American manufacturers. So he is quite happy to let it sink by itself, let the scarcity do its work. While Secretary of State Marco Rubio is obviously an enormously influential figure, he's not going to do anything that runs counter to what his president is telling him. They may feel that's enough. They've always felt that in the end, Cubans would rebel. Over the years, there've been occasional outbreaks of protests, but frankly, very few. I started covering Cuba in 1988. And I remember reporting on how it was unsustainable. The Cuban Revolution basically had come to an end and it was just a matter of time. And I obviously learned an important lesson, one that Cuban officials liked to remind me of. Don't underestimate the staying power of the Cuban government. They are still highly disciplined, highly organized. They do have a core of revolutionaries. They talk about I can resist here. We have to keep resisting and we'll just have to see how much more resistance is left.

[Jason Palmer]

David, thanks very much for joining us, Jason.

[David Adams]

It was my pleasure.

[Rosie Blore]

World Cups can be as tricky off the field as they are on. Russia was controversial as a tourist destination, and Qatar had almost no stadiums when it won the bid. So when Canada, Mexico and America were confirmed as hosts of the 2026 World cup, they must have seemed simpler places to hold a tournament. But the world has changed since they were chosen. Donald Trump's administration has locked up tourists for minor violations. It snatched foreign students off the street for things they'd said about politics. And America's president has also threatened the other two World cup host countries. As part of our World Ahead series, our senior culture correspondent John Fazman asks whether fans will still want to attend this summer's tournament.

[John Fazman]

I think the bear case has three planks. The first one is in 2024. The United States hosted the Copa America, which is a tournament of South American teams. And the finals saw some very serious security breaches. Number two, the United States hosted the FIFA Club World cup, and attendance was pretty anemic for most of those games. Both of those things are fairly easy to dismiss. The World cup is a bigger tournament than either of them. The bigger concern is that since Donald Trump took office, tourist numbers to the United States have plummeted. So there are real questions over whether international tourists will want to come to the United States under current conditions and whether American fans, especially fans of Hispanic or Latino origins, will want to come to the stadiums if there are going to be ice patrols outside them.

[Rosie Blore]

So what's your prediction? Are they going to turn up?

[John Fazman]

My own prediction is yes, they will. The World cup is a tremendous draw. And Donald Trump, as unwelcoming as his administration has been to immigrants generally, has said that he wants people to come. And so I think that those two things together mean that it's not going to be as much of a disaster as it could have been. I suspect people will want to show up.

[Rosie Blore]

So how are preparations going at the moment?

[John Fazman]

Well, the difficult and unique thing about this World cup is that there are actually three hosts. The United States is co hosting with Canada and Mexico. So that requires a level of international cooperation that we really haven't seen before in a single World Cup. Things seem to be going okay. The venues have been chosen. The draw, as you'll have seen, was at the Kennedy center in Washington, D.C. this was a favor to President Trump. I suppose. The only concerning thing is that Donald Trump has threatened to move games out of cities that he deems not safe. Now, whether he actually follows through on that threat is an open question. I would say it's unlikely. It's just not that easy to move previously scheduled World cup games from one stadium to another at the drop of a hat.

[Rosie Blore]

So, of course, America is a co host with Mexico and Canada. Is there the possibility that anxiety about matches in the US Will mean that Mexico and Canada actually gain from this?

[John Fazman]

Well, the sights have already been chosen, so I think it's doubtful that you'll see games played anywhere other than where they've said they'd be played. Most of them will be played in the United States. But if you look at fandom as a sort of competition, I think it's certainly possible that Mexico and Canada have a greater number of sold out games than the United States does.

[Rosie Blore]

John, America used to have a reputation for being pretty rubbish at football. Has that changed in terms of its ability itself, players, or even its fandom?

[John Fazman]

How good is America? Is something we're going to have to see. I obviously hope they win the whole thing. I think they have a decent shot at doing it. As far as fandom goes, it is worlds different than it was the last time the United States hosted the World cup, which was in 1994. There is a thriving professional soccer league in the United States now. Millions of Americans tune in to the English Premier League, which is broadcast on network TV every weekend. Millions more watch games from Germany and from Spain. And you have youth soccer, which was played when I was little, but was not nearly as big a thing as it is now. So in the 30 years since the last time the United States hosted the World cup, domestic fandom has grown exponentially. I spoke to someone who said that in 1994 when he was managing the games in New York, they really had to rely on immigrants and on visitors to fill the stadium. That's much less the case now. You have a huge domestic fan base, which you didn't have before.

[Rosie Blore]

So what kind of image do you think America will end up projecting with this World cup hosting?

[John Fazman]

It's certainly possible that it could be a disaster. I suspect that won't happen. I suspect that with the eyes of the world on the United States, the administration, the fans and FIFA will rise to the occasion and we'll have a successful and very well attended World Cup.

[Rosie Blore]

John, thank you very much.

[John Fazman]

Thanks, Rosie.

[Jason Palmer]

That's all for this episode of the Intelligence. We'll see you back here tomorrow.

[Schneider Electric Narrator]

Are you trying to seize the value from AI? Schneider Electric electrifies, automates and digitalizes every industry, business and home driving efficiency and sustainability for all. Listen to their AI at Scale podcast to hear from AI experts and to get the answers and practical examples of AI for energy and industry. Search AI at Scale podcast by Schneider Electric today.