Podcast Summary: We’ll be right over here: Europe’s populists sour on Trump

Podcast: Economist Podcasts | The Intelligence
Date: January 28, 2026
Hosts: Rosie Blore, Jason Palmer
Featured Guest: Sophie Pera (Paris bureau chief), Matt Kaplan (science correspondent)

Overview

This episode explores the surprising souring of relationships between Europe’s populist right and Donald Trump’s America, examining why populist leaders who once drew inspiration—and political capital—from Trump are now publicly criticizing his foreign interventions. The episode also provides insights into India's dating app culture and a scientific investigation into animal behavior at salt licks in rainforests.

Main Segment: Europe’s Populists Turn on Trump

[02:42–08:57]

Key Discussion Points

• Unexpected Critique from the European Populist Right

  • Jordan Bardella, head of France’s National Rally, publicly criticizes Trump’s approach to Greenland as “a real danger to the sovereignty of a European state.”
    • Populist right parties have emulated Trump’s “country first” nationalism, yet are now vocally dissenting from his blatant foreign interference.

• Origins of the MAGA–European Populist Bond, and Its Strain

  • Europe’s populist right (France, Germany, Italy, UK, etc.) has historically been inspired by Trump’s success, with leaders like Marine Le Pen maintaining direct links with MAGA insiders, including contacts through Charles Kushner (Trump’s ambassador to France).
  • Sophie Pera: “If you just look at the guest list for Trump’s inauguration last year, it was almost a who’s who of the populist right. There was Italy’s Giorgia Meloni. There was Britain’s Nigel Farage…” (04:21)

• Diverging Interests and Sovereignty Concerns

  • Populist parties, driven by nationalism, cannot support Trump’s attempts to interfere with European or other sovereignties—like over Greenland or Venezuela—without contradicting their own “country first” doctrine.
  • In Germany, Trump’s threats have caused deepening rifts within the AfD, between pro- and anti-American factions.
    • Sophie Pera: “Some think support from MAGA world is so valuable that it’s self defeating to publicly reprimand America for these sorts of threats. But others... feel that this is reviving their old concerns about Germany becoming a vassal of America.” (05:56)

• Not All Populists Speak Out Openly

  • Countries like Poland and the Netherlands, with strong transatlantic ties, remain publicly silent on Trump’s interventions.
  • Their reticence is strategic—not wanting to endanger transatlantic relationships.

• Electoral Calculations and Political Risks

  • European populists are acutely aware that association with Trump’s heavy-handed tactics could taint their electoral prospects, as seen in Canada’s 2025 election where Trump’s threats “led to the defeat for Pierre Poilievre, who was the populist conservative candidate…” (07:23)
  • French leaders are especially concerned not to lose their poll lead in the upcoming presidential election, seeking to broaden appeal beyond the Trump-enthusiasm base.
  • Sophie Pera: “The more brazen that Trump’s threats become, the greater a political liability he could be for them.” (08:36)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “He says President Trump was returning to the Monroe Doctrine and acting in the economic interests of an American oil company.”
  — Rosie Blore, quoting Jordan Bardella [02:42]

• “If it’s all about France or America first, ultimately ... they cannot condone an attempt to interfere in or take over ... another sovereign state. And that is where the clash between the MAGA movement and the populist right in Europe becomes so acute.”
  — Sophie Pera [06:44]

• “Even though MAGA is clearly seeking to help these parties on the populist right, the more brazen that Trump’s threats become, the greater a political liability he could be for them.”
  — Sophie Pera [08:36]

Secondary Segments

India’s Dating Scene: East Meets App

[10:15–16:36]

Key Insights

• Western dating apps, like Tinder and Bumble, failed to “reform” Indian dating norms and instead encountered cultural mismatches.
• Indian-specific dating platforms are emerging, tuned to local values, language diversity, demographic curation, and social class distinctions.
  • Sidharth Mangaram (former Flow founder): “India is not one market. It really differs wherever you go, what social class and caste you come from. And so curation is key.” [14:31]
• The political economy remains challenging: despite the boom in startups, investment lags due to the pain-avoidant and cautious Indian consumer base.
  • Simran Mangaram: “Our tolerance for pain is so high that we would suffer like a free hat and then try to pay when we really are ... at the end of our tether.” [15:59]
• Cultural nuggets: The generational divide on compromise in matchmaking, the pitfalls of swiping fatigue, and the gender imbalance on apps.

Notable Quotes

• “Western dating apps tried to shape the market … trying to make Indian dating culture into Western dating culture. Unsurprisingly, the response was not what they’d hoped for.”
  — Rosie Blore [12:33]

Science Segment: Where Jungle Animals Dine Together

[16:36–22:37]

Key Insights

• In savannas, animals gather at waterholes; in rainforests—where water is not scarce—the “watering hole” equivalent is the salt lick.
• Matt Kaplan describes a study using camera traps that captured astonishing scenes of animal congregation at mineral-rich outcrops.
  • “The footage is unreal. There are video shots of ocelots swatting parakeets as they come down from the air … tapirs paying attention to the salt, not noticing vampire bats…” [17:57]
• Salt is biologically critical: it regulates blood pressure and is hard to obtain in rainforests. Other minerals like kaolinite also protect herbivores from plant toxins.
• The study reveals animals will risk predation and conflict to satisfy their nutritional needs.
  • “It’s the Discovery Channel, but saltier.”
    — Jason Palmer [18:55]

Conclusion

This episode intricately links global politics and cultural change, illustrating the shifting alliances and pragmatic calculations of Europe’s populists, the tenacity of local culture in the face of global tech offerings, and the evolutionary logic underlying animal behavior in rainforests. Notably, the European populist right’s relationship with Trump demonstrates how nationalist rhetoric runs up against the hard realities of sovereignty, strategic interests, and electoral tactics.