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- [00:01]
Anita Anand
If you want access to bonus episodes, reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat, community discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast ad, free listening and a weekly newsletter. Sign up to empire club@www.empirepoduk.com.
- [00:20]
William Duranpool
Build a routine with Ollie that supports your wellness needs, like getting your daily vitamins and minerals with Ollie's multigummies or keeping your mood upbeat with all the vitamin D. And hello happy. Give your gut health some probiotics and wake up feeling refreshed after taking Ollie sleep. Do wellness on your terms. Find Ollie at a Walmart or Target near you or@olli.com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
- [00:59]
Supriya Gandhi
Hello and welcome to Empire with me.
- [01:02]
Anita Anand
Anita Anand, William Duranpool. And in the last episode we ended on a cliffhanger. Shah Jahan has got some terrible illness. He's in bed. He isn't being seen in public. And the rumors are spreading that a civil war is about to break out. The shopkeepers in Delhi are hunkering down. Rumors are flying around. Post messengers are taking messages down to the Deccan, over to Gujarat, to Bengal, that Shah Jahan is finally heading for his deathbed. And a war is about to begin. Spies in the Red Fort are reporting developments in the city to each of Shah Jahan's four sons. And this is the moment of crisis that all these children have known will come at one point in their life. And everyone is now assuming that this is about to happen. The big succession struggle, the big war, the civil war between the different brothers is about to break out. Who Supriya Gandhi makes the first move?
- [02:09]
Unnamed Historian
Well, I think they all spring into action again. You know, this is sort of a very complicated time. There's a chronicler who's attached to one of Shah Jahan's sons, Shuja, who's in Bengal, who says that the times are as agitated as these sort of curly, torturous ringlets of moon faced beauties.
- [02:29]
Anita Anand
That's quite an image.
- [02:31]
Unnamed Historian
That is, yes, it's, you know, it's a fairly common image, but it does reflect the times. And Shuja, who was far away in Bengal, takes the opportunity to pronounce himself emperor. And he styles himself by all kinds of titles, including Alexander of the age. And Alexander is important here. And so we're going to get to that in a bit.
- [02:53]
Anita Anand
This is a reference to Alexander the Great, who's remembered in Islamic law as Iskandar the great conqueror.
- [03:00]
Unnamed Historian
Absolutely so Iskandar or Alexander is very, very in the whole tradition of Persian literature from, you know, Nizami to Amir Khusrow and so on. And anyway, so Shuja is the son who's been settled in Bengal for a while. He's had this post as governor, he's away from the imperial center and he thinks, well, you know, with the news of his father's illness, you know, it's sort of inevitable, you know, why not stake my claim to succession?
- [03:29]
Anita Anand
It's far away. But Bengal is also very rich at this point, isn't it? It's the centre of the textile industry and it's quite a good place to be and to make your fortune if you were so minded.
- [03:39]
Unnamed Historian
It's a very good place. It is very fertile. There's been a lot of settlement of forested land for agriculture which then of course increases the wealth of that particular region and it has been absorbed into the Mughal state.
- [03:54]
Supriya Gandhi
I feel like we haven't really done justice to poor old Shuja and the other brother who is going to be quite, you know, they're going to be quite pivotal right now. Shuja and Murad. So I mean what were they like? I mean we sort of spoke a while ago about the different attitude that Shah Jahan had both to Dara Suka who he sort of coddles and keeps quite close to him and micromanaging Aurangzeb and Aurangzeb developing his own sort of shadow state and never doing anything that's good enough to please his father. Daddy issues. But what about the other two? How do they fit into this family and what are they like and what is their relationship with their father like?
- [04:26]
Unnamed Historian
So one thing that we know about Suja when he was much younger was that Suja was actually kind of taken away to be raised by his grandfather Jahangir and Jahangir's wife Noor. So he spent his early years being.
- [04:43]
Anita Anand
Raised by them where he has the cutest ever picture of a Mughal baby painted of him. It's the greatest Mughal baby painter that Shuja looking like the most adorable 6 month old kid you've ever seen.
- [04:55]
Unnamed Historian
It is a very cute picture and actually there are lovely pictures of, you know, a lot of Mughal babies during this Jahangir period either with Shah Jahan, there's one of Dara Shukoh playing with jewels sitting next to Shah Jahan and then there's another one in that cart and then there's another very cute one of Aurangzeb being held by Shah Jahan also. So yes, there are quite a few of them. So Shuta had that, you know, perhaps sort of unusual time. And he was very close to his grandfather. And then later on, he was actually known for his cultural patronage. So he had, you know, like poets and writers produce all kinds of literary works and other kinds of writings in his court. And he had a fair amount of, you know, independence in Bengal. So Shuja was very close to Jahangir and Noori Jahar, having been raised by them. And then, of course, you know, he's close in age to Dara Shukoh. He's the second eldest son. He has spent a long time in this position in Bengal, enough to really get comfortable there, have his own little court, have a fair amount of independence from his father. He still, of course, you know, has to carry out his father's orders, make visits to the imperial court and so on, just like his father and his siblings, Dara Shuko and Jahanara. He even pays respects to Mullah Shah, who's, you know, Dara Shuko's kadari, sort of Sufi spiritual teacher. He has his own Sufis whom he corresponds with. So he's really doing a lot of what Tara Shuku was doing, except that he's not doing this in the embrace of the imperial court. He's doing it in the province of Bengal. And Murad is the youngest of these surviving sons of Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal.
- [06:38]
Anita Anand
I'm the youngest of four sons. I'm on Murads.
- [06:41]
Supriya Gandhi
You're Team Murad.
- [06:42]
Unnamed Historian
Are you on Team Murad?
- [06:44]
Supriya Gandhi
Spoiler. Not going to go well anyway, Karen, what was Murad like? Was he sort of the precocious baby of the family? What was his personality like?
- [06:51]
Unnamed Historian
So we won't hear as much about Murad, is that. But, you know, we do know that Murad, again, was very close to certain spiritual Sufi teachers. And he'd have correspondences with them and sort of. They'd encourage him to do the sorts of things that he wanted to do. But he was like, Shuja decided to spring into action. So when he heard of his father's illness, he actually put to death one of his officials whom he thought was sympathetic to Dara Shuku.
- [07:17]
Supriya Gandhi
Oh, really? Just on the suspicion. Okay, right. Gosh, yes.
- [07:22]
Unnamed Historian
And then he. He plunders a fort. He, like, seizes a lot of money, and then he coronates himself as well. And he has a poet, you know, sort of distinguished Iranian literature, write this amazing long narrative poem about. It ends up being about the war of succession, but it also talks about how Murad coronated himself and those sort of gold and diamonds everywhere. And he's in Gujarat in western India. And so he is trying to raise money and troops to make his bid for the throne in the west. Shuja is already doing that in the northeast. So already Dara Shukoh is potentially facing a war on these two fronts. And then Aurangzeb springs into action. Aurangzeb, he actually is a little more reserved. He doesn't sort of go ahead of himself and say, like, I'm the emperor.
- [08:12]
Supriya Gandhi
Now, or have someone write poetry about what a great ruler he is.
- [08:16]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, yes. And have like, you know, jewel scattering clouds and sort of flinging gold coins to the crowds and all of that. So he actually, he's much cleverer and he's like, he keeps sending Shah Jahan a lot of letters and, like, fruits and grapes and all kinds of things. He wants to find out a little more information.
- [08:34]
Anita Anand
Shah Jahan has been using him as a sort of source of fruit for some time.
- [08:39]
Unnamed Historian
As a source of fruit? Yes. And sometimes, you know, this gives Shah Jahan opportunities to be sort of very dissatisfied with him.
- [08:46]
Anita Anand
The pomegranates aren't good enough. The muskmelons are old and rotten.
- [08:50]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. And, you know, and what Aurungze probably really remembers is that Shah Jahan accused him of pilfering these Emperor's special mangoes that were really, like, grown for the Emperor. The name was sort of, you know, the Emperor's choice.
- [09:04]
Anita Anand
Padshah manga.
- [09:06]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, the Padshah Pasand. And of course, he, you know, he retorts, reiterates that he had nothing to do with the loss of that delivery, but something that annoys Shah Jahan.
- [09:15]
Supriya Gandhi
I mean, this sort of banana and mango diplomacy is absolutely astonishing. This could drive a wedge between two people.
- [09:22]
Anita Anand
I find that often at home here. Actually, my boys often eat my favorite mangoes before I get a chance to eat it. And it is a cause of conflict in our household.
- [09:29]
Supriya Gandhi
Thoroughly excommunicated. Okay. You say that he sort of. He bides his time, but he's. Is he doing things secretly on the down low? Because from what you've painted a picture of Aurangzeb, he's smart. He's smart and he's a mover. So he may not seem to be doing anything, but is he under the water paddling away?
- [09:47]
Unnamed Historian
Absolutely. And he knows that it doesn't really make sense to fight multiple wars. I mean, if Aurangzeb crowned himself Emperor, he'd then have to fight a war with Murad he knew that Shah Jahan was still alive, so he'd have to fight the imperial forces and he'd have to eliminate Shuja in Bengal. And he certainly wasn't prepared to all of that, you know, not immediately. And in fact, he'd already had some kind of alliance with Shuja because they'd had a secret meeting, a meeting, actually, that was arranged by Jahanara, you know, without perhaps knowing the outcome. But, you know, she'd been trying, of course, to get the brothers to meet. And this was earlier when Shah Jahan was keeping all of them very busy with their assigned activities. And now what he does is he reaches out to Aurangzeb, he fixes on a plan, and then he reaches out to Murad because both of them are sort of in the general, sort of south, so they could possibly team up, they could pool their forces and then they could march on Agra, if they got there, and then face the imperial army together. So he puts his hand impression and his signature on this letter to prove that it's authentic. And he suggests to Murad that, you know, maybe we can pull forces and, you know, maybe if we can decide that our friends will be our friends and our enemies will be our joint enemies, and then if we were to succeed, Murad would get all of the western territories of the empire. Now, you know, this may seem unusual, but it actually wasn't completely impossible. And this is because the way the Mughals operated, you know, had a variety of influences, but there also was an earlier Central Asian tradition of kind of shared kingship or a sort of joint rulership. So it wasn't, you know, something that was completely out of the blue.
- [11:34]
Anita Anand
And Murad goes for it. He bites the carrot and Murad goes for it.
- [11:37]
Supriya Gandhi
Do you think Aurangzeb means it? Do you think he means it or he doesn't mean it at all?
- [11:41]
Anita Anand
Not at all, as we will see.
- [11:43]
Supriya Gandhi
No, we'll have to wait and see. But the fact is he's doing that at the same time playing nice with Murad, saying, yeah, yeah, we'll share. Sharing is caring, brother. We'll do it. Fine. But he's also. Isn't he making moves to try and recruit some people who were once loyal to Dara Shukoh as well. I mean, he's on manoeuvres big time.
- [12:04]
Anita Anand
He's trying to charm the Rajasthanis, indeed, in particular.
- [12:07]
Unnamed Historian
So he's trying to charm the Rajputs, and he's been on the Rajput charm offensive for a while. You know, he's been Sending them, like, beautiful diamonds and sort of nice gifts and all of that.
- [12:18]
Anita Anand
Because being in the Deccan, he has access to the diamond mines.
- [12:20]
Unnamed Historian
Of course he has access to the diamonds. Yes, of course.
- [12:23]
Anita Anand
That's a handy little gift to be able to hand out.
- [12:25]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. I mean, he doesn't have access to as much as he would want, but, you know, that comes later during his reign. He also writes a very nice letter to Rana Raj Singh, who was a prominent Rajput.
- [12:37]
Anita Anand
Which of the kingdoms is he associated with?
- [12:39]
Unnamed Historian
Mewar. And in this letter, he actually, he says, you know, because rulers are shadows of God, he's going to follow his ancestors and ensure that people of different schools of thought and of variegated religious hues are cradled in security and tranquility and pass their days in repose.
- [13:00]
Anita Anand
That's certainly like Trump at the last election going to Detroit and appearing on stage with all the Muslim leaders, isn't it? It's the very opposite of what he's actually going to do.
- [13:10]
Unnamed Historian
Trump's case was more ironic and insincere. I think Aurangzeb has actually had very good relationships with Rajputs throughout. You know, it's not as though, you know, he's sort of.
- [13:19]
Anita Anand
He's knocked down a few temples in Gujarat, hasn't he? As a young man, he knocked down.
- [13:24]
Unnamed Historian
A temple that was connected to a prominent Jain merchant called Shantid, who had good relations with the Mughal court. The interesting thing is, well, eventually the temple was rebuilt and Aurangzeb still continues to have relationships with Shantidas.
- [13:40]
Anita Anand
This is the complex thing about Aurangzeb. Almost anything you say about him can be upended or re examined. And all our comfortable assumptions about him being this sort of nasty bigot, Darth Vader of history, the Darth Vader of the Mughal Empire. You can always find evidence that he's Darth done something slightly less wicked at another time.
- [14:02]
Supriya Gandhi
Well, here's the thing is, I'm just more interested in Shantidas. Oh, yes, you knocked down my temple. But let's. We'll still manage a friendship of sorts. I mean, that to me is intriguing.
- [14:10]
Unnamed Historian
Shantidas is, of course, is lending money, is procuring jewels, and there are times when, you know, Dara Shuko and Shah Jahan are annoyed with him. They don't like the quality of the gems that he's provided and so on. So it's a contractual sort of business relationship. And there are ups and downs in these relationships, of course, and of course with Aurangzeb is that he's around for a very, very long time. So we're going to see different phases and we're going to see complexity and we're going to see sort of change and, you know, sort of evolution in all of these phases.
- [14:40]
Anita Anand
But Supriya, I mean, very bluntly, you don't buy the idea of Aurangzeb, which is, I suppose, very common in India today, that he's this fire breathing bigot who goes around destroying temples and hates Hindus.
- [14:54]
Unnamed Historian
So Aurangzeb does destroy temples. Shah Jahan has also destroyed temples. Shah Jahan destroyed a lot of unfinished temples that weren't quite built yet in Benares. Soon after he comes to power. And he's doing this because it shows the Rajputs, many of whom had influence in Benares and had ties to Benares and patronized temples there and so on. It shows them that he's the leader. It's a way of asserting authority. It's not a permanent feature of his rule, but it was certainly an action of his early on. So, you know, Aurangzeb certainly wasn't sort of unique in destroying temples. Certainly destroying temples wasn't the only thing he did. He also had relationships with, you know, a whole variety of Hindu religious figures.
- [15:40]
Anita Anand
This, crucially is seen at this point when it isn't what you'd expect. You don't see all the Hindus supporting Dara Shukoh and all the fundamental sort of beardy mullahs supporting Aurangzeb. In actual fact, as many Hindus support Aurangzeb as Dhara.
- [15:56]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. So again, this is something that's in flux. You know, at this point when war of succession hasn't begun yet, it's looming and each side is sort of gearing up. He's trying to get Runa Raj Singh on his side. He has been cultivating another really important Rajput who's actually currently with Dara right now and with sort of Dara's son right now. Aurangzeb has been cultivating ties with him also for a long time. And Jai Singh has a little bit of a falling out with Dara Shuku. Dara Shuku is getting his son married to a Rajput. So they're all trying to cultivate the Rajputs.
- [16:30]
Supriya Gandhi
So all of this is like a whirlpool of preparation. Who makes the first move and when does it all kick off?
- [16:36]
Unnamed Historian
Aurangzeb and Murad pull their armies and they go to this place in central India and actually they're facing a Rajput at this point. They're facing Jaswant Singh, who is from.
- [16:48]
Anita Anand
What we would call the Jodhpur Maharaja family.
- [16:51]
Unnamed Historian
And he is again representing the Imperial Army.
- [16:54]
Supriya Gandhi
He's Team Dara Shuko. Right?
- [16:55]
Unnamed Historian
He's representing sort of Shah Jahan and Dara Shukoh, his team Dara. And there's another General, Qasim Khan, who's kind of also Team Dara and Team Shahjah.
- [17:07]
Anita Anand
And they're trying to monitor the. I mean, because there's only a few crossing places, aren't there? And you have to cross these rivers. And so armies can wait at the.
- [17:16]
Supriya Gandhi
Fords at the crossing and wait and just cut people down as they try and cross. So what happens then, Supriya? Where does the Imperial army go?
- [17:24]
Unnamed Historian
So Murad and Aurangzeb actually make quick work of them. They send them off, they send them packing.
- [17:30]
Anita Anand
There's a battle.
- [17:30]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, it's a battle. And Murad is jubilant. And he actually writes to his Sufi teacher because he's in touch with him. He's getting his spiritual guidance, just as Dara Shuko was getting the spiritual guidance of his own Sufi teacher, Mullah Shah, when he was going into battle and all of that. And this is when Jahanara tries to step in and she gets a letter delivered to Aurangzeb. And in this letter, you know, of course, she talks about the importance of filial duty, that you shouldn't go against your father. It's a horrible thing. It's against religion to do that. And then your elder brother, too, she says, is like your father and you shouldn't go against him either. This wasn't the first rebellion, but it was certainly, you know, we see now a concerted effort, you know, that is being led by Aurangzeb against his father and brother.
- [18:24]
Supriya Gandhi
Can I revisit somebody who we've taken our eye off? Because the last time we saw him, he was in bed, in pain, in agony, not feeling very well at all. And that was, you know, Shah Jahan, sort of. Rumors of his demise are very premature. Does he rally and wake up amidst this turmoil? Where is he while all this is going on?
- [18:40]
Unnamed Historian
So he does rally and he's still. He's very dependent on Jahanara and on Dara Shukoh. I think he's in a weakened, enfeebled.
- [18:48]
Supriya Gandhi
State, but he's alert to this. He can see what his other children are doing and he can't like it one little bit.
- [18:54]
Unnamed Historian
No. And, you know, of course, he had rebelled against his father, and now he has, you know, three of his children. Rebelling against him.
- [19:01]
Supriya Gandhi
Do we have any sort of first person accounts of what he threatens, his wayward children who are threatening him? What does he say about them? What does he want to do to them? Because as you say, he's done it before. So I wonder whether that teaches him a little bit of, you know, what if I speak softly or if I just tell them to snap into line, I can learn from what was done to me and maybe this can go a different way.
- [19:23]
Unnamed Historian
Well, I think he actually tries to reconcile. No doubt Jahanara is writing with his blessings and trying to get Aurangzeb to change his mind. They're focusing on Aurangzeb at this point.
- [19:34]
Anita Anand
And is there a sense of panic in the Red Fort as Shah Jahan and Dara are sitting and these two armies are coming up the spine of India moving ever further northwards, threatening now Agra?
- [19:47]
Unnamed Historian
Absolutely. Because, you know, again, the Imperial army has been defeated. You have Murad and Aurangzeb swiftly moving. And that's why they're not sort of issuing a threat at first. They are actually asking for a kind of reconciliation and sort of persuasion. And they're saying that, you know, it's the holy month of Ramzan that's coming up and you shouldn't spill like the blood of other Muslims during this time. And why not just pause and write down your grievances and then maybe we'll see how to address them and how to help you.
- [20:19]
Anita Anand
We're about to head into a break, but we have now. Aurangzeb has got into Madhya Pradesh. He's with his brother Murad. The two hostile armies have united. They have managed to cross the various rivers blocking their path. They've defeated the Imperial army and panic is growing in Agra. Dara Shuko is about to leave the Red Fort and face his brothers in battle. More after the break.
- [20:52]
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- [21:14]
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- [21:17]
William Duranpool
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- [21:26]
Anita Anand
Welcome back. So we left it with Dara marching out of the Red Fort in Agra with the Imperial armies. His father's rallied a bit, his health is better, and he's now anxiously waiting the outcome of the battle. And Dara lines up his troops quite near Agra, isn't it, Supriya, where is Samugar?
- [21:48]
Unnamed Historian
This famous battle, Samugarh, is this area that's quite near Agra where Dara, Shuko and Shah Jahan are based. And actually, I must add that there's also action in Bengal. But one of the people who's actually helping Dara's young son, Suleiman Shukoh, to sort of lead the armies, there is another Rajput, Mirza Raja Jai Singh. And Jai Singh is waiting to see what's going to happen. He's sort of stalling a little bit, you know. So we have the ambivalent, vacillating Jai Singh trying to handle Shuja in Bengal. We have the Imperial army already defeated in central India. And now there is this looming battle that's in Samoagar, because Aurangzeb has paid no heed to his sister's entreaties and her desire to have a peaceful reconciliation. And he's pressing on.
- [22:45]
Anita Anand
Now, our old friend Mnuchi, who at this stage is part of Dara's army or claims to be an artilleryman and to be present at the battle, he says that Aurangzeb is already sending bribes and missives to all of Dara's generals and that he's waging this sort of brilliant intelligence campaign, splitting and dividing the loyalties of Dara's troops. And he even describes various soldiers crossing the battlefield before the battle begins.
- [23:15]
Unnamed Historian
So Manucci at this time was, you know, he was quite young, barely 20.
- [23:20]
Anita Anand
Handsome young Italian man, Anita, very much your sort of.
- [23:23]
Supriya Gandhi
Oh, well, thank you. It was great. I hadn't looked him up, but thank you for the visual image. These things are important, Supriya, what can I tell you? This is all part of history.
- [23:30]
Unnamed Historian
And so he was supposedly operating artillery. It wasn't unusual for the Moguls to hire European artillery experts. They had hired some to sort of help with the Kandahar campaign.
- [23:42]
Anita Anand
There was a general impression that Europeans were better at cannon, weren't they? There was a Feringipura outside Delhi, which was entirely the habitations of European artillerymen.
- [23:52]
Supriya Gandhi
Yes, Ferengi, meaning sort of, you know, foreigners. So Ferengipura would be, you know, the foreigner enclave. Foreign, yes.
- [23:58]
Unnamed Historian
So not all foreigners, but sort of Europeans, you know, Franks and so on. So Manucci was supposedly recruited into the army? Yes, and it's quite plausible that he was. And he did notice people trickling into Aurangzeb's camp before the war had started.
- [24:14]
Supriya Gandhi
Poor Dara. All these people sort of stabbing him in the back, and he may not even know how many people are skulking in and talking to his enemies. So, I mean, the writing seems to be on the wall for Dara, but, I mean, how does it actually happen?
- [24:27]
Unnamed Historian
Well, I think the Imperial army did have a lot of prominent people. They arrayed themselves in this battle formation.
- [24:37]
Anita Anand
There's a wonderful picture of the battle, isn't there, which you reproduce in your book of these two leaders or their elephants surrounded by this wall of cannon and ar with the space in between and clouds of gunpowder rising in the air as the cannons fire their first volleys.
- [24:54]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, it's a picture of the battle. And, you know, it seems to me to be the kind of picture painting that was sponsored by the winning side.
- [25:04]
Anita Anand
Crucially, what we see is Dara getting down from his elephant, which Mnucci says was the moment which everything begins to go wrong. Everything's looking okay. But according to Manucci, Aurangzeb has spies in Dara's army, and they persuade him to get off his elephant and to get onto a horse and to charge Aurangzeb, and that this is actually a treachery. This is a clever ruse that Aurangzeb.
- [25:32]
Supriya Gandhi
Yes. As long as he's on his elephant, he's seen as being in control. He's visible. But, you know, the fact. By mere fact of tricking him and saying, you know what? You're less exposed on a horse, they're actually making it look as though he's not in charge anymore. It is. I mean, it's dark ops, it's black ops, but it's very effective, isn't it?
- [25:49]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. They clearly seem to have a plan, because you do have this very impressive army that is sort of, again, arrayed in this splendid formation, and then they start firing, and then they don't actually receive anything in response. And then they try again, and again. There's just this very tepid response. So they're sort of wondering what is actually going on. And, of course, this was a ruse. You know, it was a ruse to kind of play with them psychologically and eventually, of course, you know, destabilize Dara as the leader.
- [26:21]
Anita Anand
I have to say that we've been rude on this podcast and the previous episode about Mnucci, and we've questioned his credentials as a harem doctor, but his sort of psychological portrait of the battle of Sammugar with Aurangzeb running the dark ops and the clever intelligence operations reads quite plausibly to me. Do you buy it so prayer, or are you skeptical?
- [26:45]
Unnamed Historian
I mean, he does position himself as an eyewitness observer and, you know, as someone who was actually sort of in the battle. So, I mean, it's definitely an interesting perspective. It's not the only perspective, but it's a perspective that one adds to, again, this whole kaleidoscope of other perspectives, because we have people who are supporting Murad and kind of, you know, where for whom Murad is sort of the center and, you know, this person who crowned himself emperor, and then we have others who are supporting Shuja. You have the Shah Jahan's historians who then are writing retrospective accounts sort of as things are unfolding before them. So it's a very interesting time, you know, when it comes to, like, history writing.
- [27:24]
Supriya Gandhi
But in this kaleidoscope, the one picture that is clear is, you know, Dara is not seen, and therefore his troops, the discipline, starts ebbing first of all and then melting, then disintegrating altogether.
- [27:36]
Anita Anand
They can see that the elephant is empty. They think he's been killed or something's gone desperately wrong.
- [27:41]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, well, you know, sort of in Minouchi's account, it's sort of Khalilullah Khan, who is really sort of this, you know, the pivot, the person who is really responsible for getting Dara to dismount from his elephant and sort of see what's happening. Because, you know, why isn't the enemy firing back?
- [27:58]
Anita Anand
He's presented as being in Aurangzeb's pay, that he's acting for Aurangzeb. So he gets off, he gets onto his horse and his army panics. It begins to disintegrate, his army panics.
- [28:09]
Unnamed Historian
And then Aurangzeb's army then takes that chance to really release a volley of, you know, like, cannonballs and bullets and so on onto the imperial army.
- [28:19]
Supriya Gandhi
They were tinkering them like a cat playing with a mouse, and now they're going to let loose. And as a result, everything just fragments on Dara's side, and he's forced to flee, and he flees to Lahore. You know, all he's left with is just get the hell out of here and try and save my life. And he's got allies there who he can seek refuge with.
- [28:39]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, There are other accounts that just say that the prince dismounted from his elephant because, you know, just because of what was going on, and he thought that he'd be an easy target. You know, it's because they Held off firing and then they started firing. So again, you know, not everyone goes along with Manucci's account.
- [28:56]
Supriya Gandhi
Okay, all right, so you've got Shah Jahan left behind and Jahanara left behind. Dara has fled. Aurangzeb has never had animosity towards his sister. It seems he may have grief with his critical father. Belittling father. What does he do to his family members now that Dara's gone?
- [29:14]
Unnamed Historian
Shah Jahan is detained and you know, he's like put under the control of Aurangzeb's guards. And Jahanara, no doubt together with Shah Jahan, they come up with this last ditch solution that harks towards again, this earlier Central Asian model of shared governance. So again, it wasn't something that was totally unheard of, but, you know, clearly not something that the sons wanted. And they say that, you know, it's okay if you come to the throne, but how about actually sharing the kingdom and dividing it between the brothers? So keep Murad and Gujarat, keep Shuja in Bengal kind of far away so they can, you know, hopefully like not bother you too much and then let Tara Shukoh be in Punjab. Tara Shukoh had been governor of Punjab in, you know, the northwestern region. And Aurangzeb would look after the rest. And Aurangzeb's own son would govern the Deccan just as Aurangzeb had.
- [30:08]
Anita Anand
But this is too little, too late. Aurangzeb has won a battle. He's not going to accept this, is he?
- [30:13]
Supriya Gandhi
He doesn't need to. Why does he need to? So how does he reply? Does he straight out say, no? It doesn't seem to be his style to be sort of as candid as that. Or does he just, right, I don't need to talk to you anymore at all.
- [30:24]
Unnamed Historian
He certainly doesn't respond positively. And again, of course, he has his own sort of things to worry about now, which is how to eliminate Murad and Shuja.
- [30:34]
Anita Anand
So he leaves dad bottled up in the Agra fort. Tell us about what he does with Murad, because this is very clever. He invites him over for dinner and plies him with wine.
- [30:45]
Unnamed Historian
He invites him and plies him with wine, but he sort of leaves Shuja aside for now. And Dara Shukoh, you know, has fled away from, from that region. He's fled west to sort of, right now he's in the Delhi region. So he then tries to rope Murad in to pursuing Dara with him. And of course, you know, he's, he and Murad have signed the agreement and all of that. Aurangzeb then pretends to be ill. He pretends to be horribly ill with dysentery and like he's sort of begging for his brother. So Murad kind of, you know, drops everything, goes to his brother's tent and his brother has dysentery. But he's clearly well enough to sort of lay out this amazing feast at which there's wine served and quite a bit of wine, these beautiful jeweled goblets that is then being plied upon Murad. And then Murad falls asleep.
- [31:32]
Anita Anand
There's a slave girl who massages his feet, as I seem to remember. So Murad is encouraged to have a nice snooze after lunch.
- [31:39]
Unnamed Historian
And he wakes up and he's a prisoner without any weapons.
- [31:43]
Anita Anand
His weapons have been taken from him discreetly while he's sleeping. And he's put in chains and sent off to Gwalio, which is the state prison.
- [31:50]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. And, you know, he's initially sent off to Salimgarh, which, because they're kind of on their way to Shah Jahanabad in pursuit of Dara.
- [31:59]
Supriya Gandhi
And apparently he wakes up from his snooze, his fateful snooze, to see that he's got no weapons left and, you know, the writings on the wall for him as well. What a calamity that the covenants and agreements of Muslims can be dissolved all at once. So it is said. So he's off to jail. Aurangzeb is now free to. To break that deal. Doesn't have to share anything with anyone. Chances are he never thought he would.
- [32:21]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. So in Delhi, he grants himself because his dad is imprisoned, Dara's on the.
- [32:26]
Anita Anand
Run, Murad's imprisoned too.
- [32:27]
Unnamed Historian
And Murad is also imprisoned. Murad is out of the way and Shuja is like, you know, for him at the moment, too far away to really do anything.
- [32:34]
Anita Anand
And this is in the then lovely Shalimar Bagh, which is now a rather sort of stinky suburb on the edge of Delhi with sort of crumbly pavilions and no water and no runnels. But in those days was a magnificent Mughal garden with jets of water and gorgeous places to throw a big coronation.
- [32:53]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. I mean, there are lots of sort of beautiful gardens and Aurangzeb has a couple of coronations. So at this point, then Dara Shukoh is in Lahore and now he is desperately trying to sort of drum up support from really from anywhere. Jai Singh is still like stalling, giving him all kinds of excuses.
- [33:12]
Anita Anand
You know, I've seen Those letters, they're up in Bicken there at the moment in the archive. Jay sings Very dodgy letters where he's giving all sorts of incredibly implausible excuses, as is that wonderful handprint you talked about earlier. Anyone that goes to the wonderful archives in Bicena, they can see them on display. And these are the crucial letters. That means that Dara does not get the support of the house of J. Paul and is left in the Punjab with no one to turn to.
- [33:41]
Supriya Gandhi
Yeah, I mean, like a beggar with a bowl, no one is helping.
- [33:43]
Anita Anand
It's one of those sort of moments, like in a Shakespeare play, when after a defeat, the God leaving Antony and the sound of all the support disappearing, and one by one, the allies make themselves scarce and he's left on his own.
- [33:56]
Supriya Gandhi
But what astonishes me about this is that Aurangzeb doesn't catch up with him sooner because he is sort of left to do this rather sad and heartbreaking lobbying for about a year and a half, isn't he, before Aurangzeb catches up with him.
- [34:11]
Unnamed Historian
Well, Aurangzeb is again, you know, busy with a variety of things. And Darushuko is in. You know, he's moving to the Punjab where he thinks he can get support. And one important thing, though, is, of course, Daru Shuko isn't completely bereft. He does have his wife, Nadara, so.
- [34:26]
Anita Anand
We haven't talked about her. Nadara is a very important figure for him, isn't she?
- [34:29]
Unnamed Historian
So Nadara was his cousin, the daughter of his uncle Parvez, and they had this, like, grand and lavish wedding, which is also beautifully illustrated in the.
- [34:40]
Anita Anand
In the Pajranama, with all those wonderful presents being presented. It is. It's the kind of the Ambani wedding of the 17th century.
- [34:48]
Unnamed Historian
Maybe more aesthetically appealing.
- [34:51]
Supriya Gandhi
Supriya, that was almost catty, and I applaud it. Okay, so they're the golden couple. Is she pivotal to his thinking and decision making? Does he love her like, you know, so many of his forebears have loved their partners?
- [35:07]
Unnamed Historian
He seems to now. Again, of course, there wasn't this idea of monogamy that, you know, one might have sort of later in times, but he. He really does seem to have loved her. We know that, of course, always were together. They traveled together and in the 1640s. And this happens around the time that Nadara is, you know, perhaps she suffers an illness. She's sort of indisposed for a while. Dara Shukoh gifts her this most magnificent Mughal album of miniature paintings. And it's one of the few Mughal albums that's actually still intact, you know, so it hasn't been sort of disintegrated with each Folio, like, being auctioned off separately. And he inscribes it with a note where he actually calls her his most intimate friend. You know, it really is sort of this beautiful glimpse of affection. We do hear rumors of other women in Dara's life. There are some portraits of a woman called Gul Safa. We don't really sort of have too many accounts of, you know, who she was or, you know, sort of anything like that. So, again, seems that there might have been other women in Indara's life, but he and Nadara, you know, were sort of very close. She's one of the people who's standing by him and she actually tries to help him get support. So they're trying to get the support of a Rajput ruler, another Rajput ruler who's like, promising, like, you know, maybe if you sort of raise the money, I can, like, give you an army. And Nadara actually performs this ritual where she is making the Rajput her foster child so that their bonds would be bonds of kinship. And actually, you know, we haven't talked about this, but foster family. Foster kinship was very important for Mughals. It's not only a Mughal practice, it's a Central Asian practice, it's been a Rajput practice. And so, and it's quite sort of common in a variety of areas. It's a way of ensuring that your children have a whole foster family that are linked through ties of milk. You know, so all the children of your wet nurse are going to be your foster brothers and your foster sisters. And it's a way of, you know, noble families furnishing foster kin for their children.
- [37:12]
Anita Anand
You write very specifically Supriya, something that we haven't seen before in the series, that she sends the Rajput a bowl of water which she's used to wash her breasts with. Is that a common practice?
- [37:27]
Unnamed Historian
Well, it's a symbolic act. So what's more common is that if you're a noblewoman and you have a child, a newborn, that you would give that infant to some other noble women or, you know, important ladies to nurse, and that their children would then be the foster brothers and sisters of your child. And it means that they would support your child no matter what, because they weren't your sort of blood. They were linked through milk.
- [37:53]
Supriya Gandhi
They're not in the line of succession. They're not. They're not competitors.
- [37:56]
Unnamed Historian
So it comes to be really important and you actually often have, you know, buildings that are made by like the foster brother of a Mughal ruler and so on. So the foster can come to be very important and influential.
- [38:07]
Anita Anand
But it doesn't work, does it? Because the wicked Rajput goes and joins Zorangza. But despite this breast water, they just.
- [38:14]
Supriya Gandhi
Can'T catch a break, can they, these two poor things.
- [38:17]
Anita Anand
So it's beginning to go badly wrong. Rajarajarup, who supposedly is going to join them, actually joins Aurangzeb. Potential allies like Jaswant Singh and Raj Singh stay out of the conflict. They know that Dara is a loser. And so rather like his great, great grandfather Humayun, he ends up having to flee west into the desert away from the centers. And we had that picture earlier in the series of Humayun having been twice defeated, heading westwards. Now, in Humayun's case, despite nearly running out of food, he meets his future wife on the run and eventually makes it to Persia where he gets an army. But Dara is not so lucky and instead he goes to stay with a landowner who has a terrible reputation for treachery. Malik Jeevan, tell us what happens there.
- [39:11]
Unnamed Historian
Well, I'll just tell you actually about again the very sad thing that happens before this. So Dara is being like sort of pushed westwards, you know, with these armies that are chasing him now, including Misaraja Jai Singh, who had earlier recently been on his side. So sort of everyone is turning on him and they're supporting Aurangzeb. And actually ironically by this time he's gotten to be sort of a little more savvy about, you know, being a soldier and being a general and you know, how to plan for battle and so on. But it's sort of that experience is a sort of a little bit wasted now because he doesn't have the adequate support and you know, with lack of resources. His wife falls gravely ill, according to.
- [39:52]
Anita Anand
One report, the grief from the separation of her older son Suleiman Shiko, and other endless, endless tribulations. And so they have to find somewhere where they can rest. And the nearest landholder, as bad luck will have it, is a complete two faced, treacherous bastard.
- [40:11]
Supriya Gandhi
I think it's bastard is the word.
- [40:12]
Anita Anand
I was avoiding using. Malik Jeevan. Daroth has spared Malik Jeevan from execution earlier in his life and he hopes that Malik Jeevan will be grateful. But what happens?
- [40:25]
Unnamed Historian
So as they are approaching, Nadhara finally succumbs and she passes away, agonized and.
- [40:32]
Anita Anand
Stupefied out of misery and illness became veiled by the curtain of God's forgiveness. Tragic. She breathed her last. Dara Shuko's light filled eyes clouded over with darkness and he grew crazed with grief. Ah, a tragic moment.
- [40:48]
Unnamed Historian
So by this point Dara doesn't really have much fight left in him. So he is of course forced to try to get Malik Jeevan to shelter him. And you know, in the end again he sort of lures him in and you know, Dara by this point is really alone.
- [41:05]
Supriya Gandhi
He's broken and sad and alone and no one will help him.
- [41:09]
Unnamed Historian
And he's also had to send his late wife's sort of body back for her to be buried eventually next to his Sufi friend in Lahore, next to his Sufi teacher. So then Malik Jeevan, you know, like once he has Dara, he quickly sends a message saying I've trapped the golden winged bird.
- [41:26]
Anita Anand
He sends that to Jai Singh. So Jai Singh, who had been his friend goes in hot pursuit and the next day arrives, surrounds Jeevan's house. It's very sort of filmic. You can see the rather like in sort of Butch Cassidy when that moment comes when the troops surround Butch Cassidy and there's no escape. Escape. Jai Singh and the army of Aurangzeb surround Dara in Jeevan's home. As the pursuing army arrives and surrounds the house, Dara's one remaining loyal supporter, who is his daughter, rushes out of the house and begs Jivan to unshackle her father. And the stone hearted landowner refused to free him him and he's shackled and taken off in prisoner to Delhi to his terrible brother, to Aurangzeb.
- [42:16]
Unnamed Historian
And you know, we actually don't hear anything about his daughter in most accounts but this is Murad's poet who's writing this sort of very dramatic poetic account of, you know, the whole war of succession. And you know, he clearly isn't an eyewitness but he sort of makes the daughter into this figure who's begging for her father's life and saying, I'm ready to become a maid servant, you know, in your home.
- [42:36]
Anita Anand
Say what she says. Bring me with countless gold and jewels into the train of your maidservants in your kitchen. My mother is the daughter of Parvez Shah. My father is Timur's descendant, possessor of glory. But exhibit me to the world in the position of a maidservant. But release the fetters from Dara's legs and he doesn't. What a bastard. So tell us the terrible fate of Dara, he's brought to Delhi. He's in rags, and he and his.
- [43:03]
Unnamed Historian
You know, his younger son, Sipir, they dressed in rags. They're paraded around, you know, really in a. This is a spectacle that is meant to humiliate them.
- [43:13]
Anita Anand
Our friend Bernier is in the crowd.
- [43:15]
Unnamed Historian
Yes, your friend Bernier.
- [43:17]
Supriya Gandhi
Did you know your friend? Not Sophia's friend, your friend Bernier, one of the dodgy doctors in the court at the moment. But he does write. I mean, he says, you know, he was dressed in dirty cloth of coarsest texture, and his sorry turban was wrapped around with a muffler like that, worn by the meanest of people. So this is like utter degradation, a portrait of an imperial fall on a.
- [43:41]
Anita Anand
Deliberately filthy elephant, back to front.
- [43:44]
Unnamed Historian
You know, one thing that we do see a pattern of is that there seems to be a kind of popular support for hapless princes, understandably, given what's.
- [43:56]
Anita Anand
Going to happen to them.
- [43:57]
Unnamed Historian
Yes. So there does seem to be, again, and some sympathy for these princes. It wasn't sort of just, well, you know, they deserve their fate or kind of let's mock them to be in the good graces of the new ruler and so on.
- [44:10]
Anita Anand
And Bernier says that the crowd even stones the horrible Malik Jeevan, that people start hurling things at him. And so while it's meant to be a crowd jeering at Dara, in fact there's a worry on the part of the authorities that they actually might free him. Him. They might free him and stone Malik Jeevan. So this actually ironically seals his fate, doesn't it?
- [44:32]
Supriya Gandhi
Well, you can't leave him alive if there's that much sympathy for him in this traduced state. You can't leave him, not if you're Aurangzeb, not if he has that much sympathy left. And Aurangzeb doesn't, does he, Supriya? He doesn't leave him.
- [44:43]
Unnamed Historian
Well, we do get again in, you know, in Behishti's account, sort of this reconstruction of what's going through Aurangzeb's mind. And he's very disturbed, you know, by this sort of sedition, you know, against something that is disrupting the harmony that he seeks to achieve by being a strong ruler who's binding the empire together.
- [45:02]
Anita Anand
And he's now painting his brother as a heretic who's embraced infidelity, in other words, has nearly become a Hindu, and he's producing all this propaganda.
- [45:12]
Unnamed Historian
So that's something that actually isn't entirely clear. There are hints of this, it's not the only narrative, because, remember, Aurangzeb is, you know, he. He's reaching out. He's reaching out to Murad, he's reaching out to all the Rajputs. He's telling the Rajputs that I'm going to follow the example of my illustrious forebears who let people of different religions live in peace. And Aurangzeb is saying this very explicitly. But there are some hints that Tara Shuku is doing isn't quite right. And of course, Aurangzeb needs some justification. He needs justification especially for the very unpious and unfilial act of overthrowing his father. Father. So, you know, there's a way in which, again, these hints make sense. They don't cohere into a sustained account, you know, so it's not like Aurangzeb is very explicitly fighting this religious war against his brother just because his brother got some Sanskrit text translated. This is an account that gathers coherence later. You know, one thing that's sort of commonly thought is that there was a trial, you know, something that you see in a lot of modern plays on Dara that, you know, once he's captured, and then there's this trial where he's accused of blasphemy and infidelity and so on, and he, you know, tries to defend himself. And then, of course, he's sentenced to death. And it doesn't quite work that way. But, you know, there is a sense that. That the sympathy, that the crowd that appears when he is paraded is indeed a source of threat. And this is a threat that must be diffused immediately and swiftly.
- [46:44]
Supriya Gandhi
Okay, so, I mean, let's talk about the actual denouement of all of this, which is going to be so horrific. At least, you know, that's what the story tells us, that there comes a point where he says, right, that's enough. He's got to go. And you have nobles who are keen to impress Aurangzeb who break into these quarters at Dara. The poor beleaguered Dara is being kept a small garden outside the walls of. Of Shah Jahanabad towards Nizamuddin, and that Dara sees that there is danger coming and he seizes a kitchen knife. He tries to defend himself, but they overpower him, they throw him to the ground and they hack off his head in front of his son, which is just appalling. So my question to you, Supriya, because what happens next might inform us of how much Aurangzeb wanted this to Happen. But did he order it? Or were these people trying to impress Aurangzeb, acting on their own? I mean, it doesn't feel like they would dare do a thing like this unless Aurangzeb told them to.
- [47:43]
Anita Anand
Yeah, you wouldn't kill an imperial prince without authorization.
- [47:45]
Unnamed Historian
You wouldn't do that. No, I mean, I think, you know, it clearly was happening on Aurangzeb's orders. And again, it wasn't the first time that that had happened. You know, Shah Jahan had a whole slew of imperial princes killed.
- [47:58]
Supriya Gandhi
Yeah, yeah, sort of slaughtered a lot of his family in a similar way, but with deniability and distance. You know, if you have a bit of distance, at least you have some cover for this. But then, is it true? The prince's head cleaned, it's wrapped in a turban and presented to Aurangzeb on a golden dish? I mean, again, biblical drama here, isn't it? That's Manucci, right?
- [48:18]
Anita Anand
Manucci tells a good story, isn't he?
- [48:20]
Supriya Gandhi
He does tell you he tells a good yarn. No doubt about that.
- [48:22]
Anita Anand
And then that story is then pitched later on in 1857. And again, an equally untrue version of it has the princes of Paradishar Zafar sent the head of one of the princes to Zafar, and he opens it up, think it's present, and there's the head of his son. Again, not true. But it's one of these tropes.
- [48:43]
Supriya Gandhi
Well, I mean, look, since we're diving into Manucci, let's just. Let's just bathe and backstroke in his prose, shall we? Because he also says that Roshanara, another bitter sister of Jahanara, and Aurangzeb says, wouldn't it be hilarious, brother? Wouldn't it be, you know, like some horrible Lady Macbeth, brother, in this witchy voice, wouldn't it be lovely if we just sent the hair of Dara Shuko, our brother, to daddy? Let's send it to daddy in the place where he's imprisoned in Agra. And Mnucci says, the following morning, Aurangzeb's chief eunuch takes it over. Shall I read a bit of Manuji? Shall we just abandon ourselves to Manucci just for this bit? The eunuch waited until the hour Shah Jahan had sat down to dinner. And when he had begun to eat, the eunuch entered with a box and laid it before the unhappy father, saying, king Aurungzeb, your son sends this plate to your majesty to let you see that he does not forget you. The old emperor said, blessed be God that my son still remembers me. The box having been placed upon the table, he ordered it with great eagerness to be opened. But on withdrawing the lid he discovered that face, the face of Prince Dara. Horrified, he uttered a cry, fell on his hands, face upon table and striking against the golden vessels, broke some of his teeth and la there apparently lifeless. Now Manucci writes.
- [50:07]
Anita Anand
Well, it's a good story, even if it's complete nonsense. We like the story.
- [50:11]
Supriya Gandhi
It may not have happened at all. I mean, it's brutal enough as it is, but Manucci makes it unbearable. And anyway, listen, what did happen is that we were delighted to have your company. Sapriya Gandhi. Thank you so much for being with us. We're so grateful. That is it from us. Till the next time we meet, it's goodbye from me, Anita Arnold.
- [50:29]
Anita Anand
A goodbye from me, William Durample.