Empire Podcast, Episode 282

Partition: The Birth of The Kashmir Conflict (Part 5)

Date: August 18, 2025
Hosts: William Dalrymple, Anita Anand
Guest: Sam Dalrymple (author, "Five Partitions")

Overview

This episode delves into the complex and often underexplored story of the partition of India, with a special focus on the princely states and the birth of the ongoing Kashmir conflict. William Dalrymple, Anita Anand, and guest Sam Dalrymple dissect how decisions taken by princely rulers, British officials, and nascent Indian and Pakistani leaderships continue to shape South Asian geopolitics. The discussion covers not only Kashmir but also pivotal regions like Hyderabad and Baluchistan, exposing the chaos, violence, and negotiation that characterized the end of empire and the rise of new nations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Untold Story of the Princely States (03:49–09:15)

• The partition was not solely about the British-ruled territories (British India) but involved over 565 princely states, whose decisions shaped over half of the modern India-Pakistan border.
• Sam Dalrymple: “In the standard nationalist stories... it’s assumed the princely states were also divided along religious lines. I had always assumed that. You look into the archives… and virtually everyone else tries to basically see what’s on offer.” (04:45)
• Many states' borders were determined not by the Radcliffe Line but by deals, personal interests, and negotiations with both India and Pakistan.
• The independence of these states was assumed by the princes almost up to the last minute, a fact often ignored in traditional histories.
• William Dalrymple: “Almost a third of India and Pakistan are missing on Independence Day. The map of India on Independence Day does not include all of Rajasthan, all of Gujarat, all of Telangana, and Pakistan does not include any of Baluchistan… Kashmir is not on maps of either.” (06:09)

Notable Quote

• Sam Dalrymple: “On Independence Day, it’s something like 568 states that become independent.” (11:51)

2. Wealth, Power, and British Manipulation (09:05–13:16)

• Hosts provide context on the vast disparities of scale and wealth among the princely states, from tiny estates to Hyderabad, “the same size as France with an economy the size of Belgium’s.”
• Some princes were significant modernizers; others invested in culture and education, counter to the common stereotype of decadent feudal rulers.
• The British repeatedly tried to federate the princely states with British India, almost succeeding just before WWII.
• Mountbatten’s final days as viceroy saw dramatic, sometimes comic scenes: “He gives the Nawab of Parliament’s Australian wife the title Her Highness as his last piece of official duty, the last thing the British were to do in South Asia.” (13:16)

3. The Instrument of Accession & The End of Independence (14:19–18:37)

• The crucial event: Mountbatten’s July 25, 1947 meeting with 100 princes and introduction of the Instrument of Accession, forcing a choice between India and Pakistan while promising limited autonomy—but only in name.
• “Until two and a half weeks before independence, most of the princely states thought they would emerge completely independent…” (14:52)
• Internal independence was a fiction; real power shifted rapidly to New Delhi and Karachi.
• Chaos and farce were rampant: paperwork lost, princely indecision, and in some cases, bureaucratic errors (states joining India because Pakistan lost their accession letters).
• Sam Dalrymple: “A contemporary journalist dubs Patel a Hindu Cromwell, courteously decapitating hundreds of little King Charles’s.” (19:02)

Notable Moment

• Diplomacy as threat: Mountbatten picking up a paperweight and telling a hesitant prince, “I will look into my crystal and give you an answer…” ending with the directive to sign. (13:50)

4. The Forgotten Front: Baluchistan and the Khan of Kalat (20:00–23:49)

• The story of the Khan of Kalat (now Baluchistan) and its parliament’s attempt at independence.
• “It’s not so much a religious divide...The Parliament just sees it as, by virtue of us being Muslims, we shouldn’t have to join Pakistan because other Muslim countries aren’t being asked to join…” (21:15)
• Initial recognition of Kalat’s independence by Jinnah shifts as India swallows up other princely states and Pakistan presses for accession.
• Political farce and misinformation drive decisions—including a panicked accession to Pakistan after a false radio report that Kalat was joining India. The forced accession plants seeds for the ongoing Baluchi nationalist insurgency.
• William Dalrymple: “So this is the roots of the whole Baluchi independence movement. It’s between monarchists and republicans, essentially.” (22:55)

5. Hyderabad: A Forgotten Epic of Violence (23:49–27:22)

• Hyderabad, larger than many European countries, ruled by a Muslim Nizam over a Hindu majority, tried to go independent.
• The Nizam leverages Muslim paramilitaries (Razakars), disaster unfolds as communal violence and peasant (communist) uprisings erupt.
• Indian forces invade in 1948 (“police action”), leading to more refugees than the 1948 Palestinian Nakba.
• Sam Dalrymple: “The story of Hyderabad is that Hyderabad state... saw one of the largest forced migrations in history.” (24:12)
• William Dalrymple: “I interviewed this old man...he said, when the Mogul Mughals invaded our territory ... we kept Aurangzeb back for three weeks...I was able to keep them back only for two hours.” (26:30)

6. Kashmir: Epicentre of a Geopolitical Earthquake (27:57–44:11)

The Setup (28:22–33:28)

• Kashmir: Muslim-majority ruled by Hindu Maharaja Hari Singh; extremely diverse (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs).
• Hari Singh: an ambiguous figure, both reformer and controversialist.
• For much of 1947, he aims for independence, envisioning a “Switzerland of the East.”
• Sam Dalrymple: “Many more Kashmiris were writing about joining the Soviet Union than India or Pakistan.” (31:41)
• Internal populism rises with Sheikh Abdullah, inspired by leftist ideals.

The Scramble and Outbreak of Conflict (33:09–43:58)

• Nehru (an ethnic Kashmiri) and Jinnah both see Kashmir as vital.
• The K in ‘Pakistan’ stands for Kashmir.
• Sam Dalrymple (quoting Karan Singh): “It always seemed to me so tragic that a man as intelligent as my father should have so grievously misjudged the political situation...the only rational solution would have been a peaceful partition.” (34:43)
• Communal violence erupts post-independence—pogroms against Jammu’s Muslims set the stage for civil war.
• Pakistani army officers, acting without Jinnah’s approval, arm Pashtun tribal Lashkars to invade from the northwest.
• William Dalrymple: “This is the first crucial moment when the Pakistani army starts operating on its own, defying political authority and supporting non-state actors… two things that will absolutely bedevil Pakistani politics until the present day.” (36:46)
• Grisly violence (notably at Baramulla), panic, and breakdown of order; the Maharaja accedes to India to get military help.
• British aircraft repainting to airlift Indian troops: Pakistan sees this as British collusion with India (40:43).
• Indian and Pakistani regular armies soon come into direct conflict in mountain warfare; the front lines become today’s Line of Control (LOC).
• Post-war, both sides refuse to accept the LOC as a true border—contentious maps, censorship, and ongoing military confrontation.

Quotes

• Sam Dalrymple: “At precisely the moment of decolonization, British ideas of sovereignty...are suddenly extended to a population several times larger… And I think, as you said, the Soviet premier Khrushchev is amazed. He looks on with disbelief and says, how did India manage to liquidate the princely states without liquidating the princes?” (45:17, paraphrased)

• Lt. Gen. S.N. Sham (quoting Dalrymple): “Those relationships are very difficult to explain. It was power, not religion. The hunger for power and authority is what drove us to madness.” (42:40)

7. Human Dimensions and Lasting Legacies (43:58–End)

• Human cost: Uncountable numbers dead or displaced; the emotional wounds of division.
• Wars of 1947–49 and 1965, and Kargil in 1999, saw leaders and officers who had once been friends facing off across the line—now even those human connections are fading.
• Anita Anand: “Now you have...top brass who just look through those binoculars...all they see is deadly enemy. They don’t see Bunty Jones or Bupy...who used to play cricket and had a good spinball...Now that human knowledge is gone.” (47:20)
• Next episode will cover the ensuing "proxy war" and emergence of Bangladesh.

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• [04:45] Sam Dalrymple: “In 1947, British India [was] being divided along religious lines, but the division of territories that constituted princely states was an entirely separate process...that did not happen on religious lines.”
• [13:16] Sam Dalrymple: “He gives the Nawab of Parliament’s Australian wife the title Her Highness as his last piece of official duty, the last thing the British were to do in South Asia.”
• [19:02] Sam Dalrymple: "A contemporary journalist dubs Patel a Hindu Cromwell, courteously decapitating hundreds of little King Charles’s."
• [21:15] Sam Dalrymple: "The Parliament just sees it as, by virtue of us being Muslims, we shouldn’t have to join Pakistan because…other Muslim countries like Egypt aren’t being asked to join Pakistan."
• [26:30] William Dalrymple: “When the Mogul Mughals invaded our territory…we kept Aurangzeb back for three weeks. I was able to keep them back only for two hours.”
• [31:41] Sam Dalrymple: “We often forget…Kashmir’s popular politics is probably ideologically closer to the Soviet Union than to India or Pakistan.”
• [34:43] Karan Singh (via Sam Dalrymple): “So tragic that a man as intelligent as my father should have so grievously misjudged the political situation...the only rational solution would have been a peaceful partition.”
• [36:46] William Dalrymple: “…the Pakistani army starts operating on its own, defying political authority and supporting non-state actors…”
• [42:40] Lt. Gen. S.N. Sham (quoted): “Those relationships are very difficult to explain. It was power, not religion…the hunger for power and authority is what drove us to madness.”
• [47:20] Anita Anand: “…now...they just look...only see deadly enemy. They don’t see Bunty Jones or Bupy...who used to play cricket...Now that human knowledge is gone.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• Understanding Princely States’ Influence: 03:49–09:15
• Instrument of Accession and Accession Chaos: 14:19–18:37
• The Story of Baluchistan/Khan of Kalat: 20:00–23:49
• Hyderabad and Untold Migrations: 23:49–27:22
• Kashmir’s Political and Social Complexity: 27:57–34:58
• The 1947 War and the Line of Control: 34:58–44:11
• Human Connections Across the New Borders: 43:58–End

Language, Tone & Style

The conversation, led by Dalrymple and Anand, is rich, lively, and steeped in dry wit and irreverence while also being deeply empathetic to the plight and tragedy experienced on all sides. Sam Dalrymple provides archival detail and personal anecdotes, complementing the hosts’ sweeping historical narrative and quips.

In Summary

This episode lays bare the chaos, negotiation, and bloodshed of South Asia’s end-of-empire era, challenging simplistic narratives of partition by foregrounding the forgotten agency of princely states and the tragic complexities of Kashmir. With blend of scholarship, oral history, and personal insight, it serves as a vital primer for understanding why Kashmir remains South Asia’s nuclear flashpoint—and why the ghosts of 1947 haunt the region today.