Empire Podcast – Episode 308:
Asterix and Obelix, Babar the Elephant, & Colonial Cartoons
Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: William Dalrymple & Anita Anand
Episode Overview
This episode of Empire delves into the world of beloved children's comic books—Asterix and Obelix, Babar the Elephant, and (briefly hinted at for next episode) Tintin. William Dalrymple and Anita Anand blend nostalgia with critical analysis, exploring how these seemingly innocent stories are shaped by and reflect colonial-era attitudes, imperial power dynamics, and problematic stereotypes. They wrestle—with both affection and discomfort—with the racism and colonial worldviews embedded in pop culture read by generations of children.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Childhood Nostalgia vs. Modern Judgement
- Both hosts recall the powerful, emotional hold these comics have.
- Anita frames the episode: “We brought you some really hefty names there, Orwell Conrad. But... we’re going to look at the 2D, the comic books... for many of us, our first inkling that the world is much bigger than we know.” [03:00]
- William confesses: “It breaks my heart... seeing these wonderful books and comment about them. Anything except complete love. But anyway, that’s what we’re gonna do on this episode.” [02:54]
2. Origins and Charm of Babar the Elephant
- Introduced 1931 by Jean de Brunhoff (story by Cecile, his wife).
- Babar: orphaned in the jungle, flees after his mother is killed, becomes ‘civilized’ by a kindly Parisian lady, returns home, and is crowned king for his new, “civilized” wisdom.
- The real creator, Cecile de Brunhoff, is overlooked after suggesting her name be omitted: “That is such a tragic, such a... Woman thing to do.” — William [12:27]
3. The Colonial Critique and Backlash to Babar
- Rooted in the context of the 1931 Paris Colonial Exposition—French colonial pride at its peak.
- The Babar story portrays Western civilization as unequivocally superior, the jungle as "savage".
- Anita describes the 1931 colonial exhibition’s context: “It was... a one-stop shop for colonizers... stories of their successful transformation of savages into the civilized.” [14:44]
- William elaborates: “Many people who come to this today see this as basically saying that Western values are good and native... values are bad.” [13:51]
Notable Quote:
“The elephants at home when Babar goes home are largely naked. And the civilized... family of Babar, they dress like fashionable Frenchmen and they are the ones who save the day.” — Anita [17:40]
- Babar’s Picnic (1949) is highlighted for troubling visual depictions: “Semi naked black figures... waving spears, holding shields. They are... what you described as the watermelon smile.” [19:04]
- The civil rights movement and changing sensitivities lead to calls for books' withdrawal:
- Laurent de Brunhoff later regrets and asks his publisher to stop circulation of problematic depictions. [21:52]
- Ariel Dorfman (1983): “...the fulfillment of the dominant country’s colonial dream.” [22:08]
- Herbert R. Kohl: “Should We Burn Babar?” [23:02]
Notable Quote:
“In Babar, the reader learns that there are different classes of people... Elephants are not as good as people, but might be if they just imitate these other people.” — Anita, paraphrasing Kohl [23:02]
- Ongoing censorship: As late as 2012, a library in East Sussex, UK, pulls Babar from the shelves due to racist depictions. [24:16]
4. Asterix and Obelix: Wordplay, Resistance, and Stereotypes
- Anita shifts to her “absolute favorite cartoon” and shares joy in its cleverness and parody.
- The narrative: Plucky, magic-potion-powered Gauls (Asterix and Obelix) resist Roman occupation.
- William: “This was the kind of... French resistance against the Nazis sort of played back into Romans 100%.” [34:10]
Notable Quote:
“Black people are always enslaved in this... an awful depiction of a person of colour... big red lips, white eyes, very black skin. And people might complain... but what people don’t sometimes realize is quite how many of the most powerful people in the Roman Empire were in fact Africans.” — William [38:48]
- Even as the book mocks all ethnicities and characters, the persistent, reductive, and racist depictions of Africans stand out. [39:27–40:11]
- Black and white minstrel shows and media context: UK’s “Black and White Minstrels” ran on TV until 1978; similar stereotypes pervaded pop culture much longer than many expect. [40:34]
5. Global Backlash and Contemporary Reappraisal
- Recent controversies around reissuing/altering comic art for new markets (e.g., US release of Asterix by Papercutz).
- Ronald Wimberley (African American cartoonist) leads criticism: “Blatantly white supremacist.” [42:25]
- Wimberley: “Even a child knows the Romans kept all types of slaves... so it’s easy to see the purpose of making all the slaves black is a modern white supremacist device. He’s not wrong.” — William [43:19]
- Briefly touches on the “Great Wall of China” incident: A modern Asterix promotion was withdrawn due to outrage over caricatures of Chinese characters; sensitivity heightened for the Chinese market. [45:51]
Notable Quote:
“Personally, I believe they belong in textbooks along with historical context... to differentiate between form and function, to place it within a politically subjective context. Now if this is sold as... first produced, without any... context, then the publisher is producing and selling white supremacist cartoons.” — as quoted by Anita from Ronald Wimberley [44:37]
- Hachette (French publisher) refuses to redraw historic art, enforcing only minimal disclaimer notices.
- Cultural reevaluation is ongoing, and the hosts invite audience reactions: “Write in and tell us if you think this is good, bad or ugly!” [41:10]
6. The Generational Divide and Changing Standards
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William reflects: “How much the world that I grew up with... is now so completely vanished and how far in just our lifetimes things have moved on.” [46:37]
-
Anita: “I guess it was funny. And they were kicking a higher power. They were kicking up, I think, rather than kicking down.” [46:59]
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
-
On revisiting beloved childhood stories:
“Some of these things we didn’t question when we were kids, but now... with what I suppose you can call modern judgment, and they are being read by a modern readership... They do depict Asia, Africa, lands of comedy, natives and savages... does it matter?” — Anita [05:05] -
On Cecile de Brunhoff’s vanished credit:
“That is such a tragic, such a... Woman thing to do.” — William [12:27] -
On the continued impact of nostalgia:
“It breaks my heart... seeing these wonderful books and comment about them. Anything except complete love.” — William [02:54] -
On the emotional impact of Babar’s early pages:
“Every parent reading this is bursting into tears now, before we even got beyond the second paragraph of this adorable.” — William [08:52] -
On colonial displays:
“Each colonizing country is given a pavilion in which to showcase... stories of their successful transformation of savages into the civilized.” — Anita [14:44] -
On the visual depiction of Africans:
“You have these native figures that would not be out of place in Jim Crow America... the watermelon smile...” — Anita [19:04] -
On publisher response to criticism:
“Asterix was born in 1959 in France. This omnibus respects the artwork as originally created as per the wishes of the authors and the publishers.” — quoted by Anita [44:29]
Important Segment Timestamps
- 02:25 — Introduction of beloved comics & hosts’ nostalgia
- 06:47 — Framing the episode’s central dilemma: nostalgia vs. modern judgment
- 07:58 — Babar’s origins, history, and creators
- 13:51 — The colonial context and critique of Babar begins
- 17:40 — Visual-cultural analysis of Babar’s images
- 21:52 — Babar and the civil rights era backlash
- 23:02 — Herbert Kohl: “Should We Burn Babar?”
- 24:16 — Ongoing bans and censorship
- 29:48 — Introduction to Asterix and wordplay glee
- 34:10 — Asterix as French resistance allegory
- 38:07 — Detailed discussion of racist stereotypes in Asterix art
- 42:25 — The modern US publishing controversy & Ronald Wimberley’s critique
- 45:51 — The Chinese market/censorship incident with Asterix
- 46:37 — Hosts reflect on generational change and shifting standards
Structure of the Episode
- Part 1: Childhood memory and the enduring charm of Babar the Elephant—its history, authorship, and its problematic legacy.
- Part 2: The large-scale cultural and political context—the Paris Colonial Exhibition and the French empire.
- Part 3: Addressing the backlash, re-evaluations, bans, and modern attempts to contextualize or censor.
- Part 4: Shift to Asterix—legacy, immense popularity, creators’ backgrounds, and the resistance motif.
- Part 5: Detailed analysis of Asterix’s stereotypes, the American publishing controversy, and ongoing debates around representation.
- Part 6: Hosts’ personal reflections and teasing the next episode (Tintin).
Tone and Style
The episode is simultaneously affectionate, self-aware, and uncomfortable—a “conversation we have to have.” William is sentimental and sometimes defensive; Anita is critical but not without deep fondness. Their dialogue invites listener engagement, debate, and reflection.
For Further Engagement
- The hosts encourage listeners to write in with their perspectives on the debate: Should these comics be altered, recontextualized, or remain unchanged as products of their time?
- Next episode: A deep-dive on Tintin and its even more controversial colonial iconography.