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- [00:01]
Host 1
If you want access to bonus episodes, reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat, community, discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast ad, free listening and a weekly newsletter, sign up to empire club@www.empirepoduk.com. hello Empire listeners, we are jumping in here. We'd love to tell you about one of our fellow goal hanger shows, Legacy, hosted by historian Peter Frankman, who once made a memorable appearance on Empire. Telling Anita off is on with the fabulous Afwa Hirsch. We must get on the show and have yet to get on.
- [00:47]
Host 2
So can I just say, yeah, Aphwa's wonderful and I think Peter, if memory serves, said you were talking nonsense.
- [00:53]
Host 1
He would never. He would never know.
- [00:55]
Host 2
You know he would and has on numerous occasions.
- [00:59]
Host 1
Never. Never.
- [01:00]
Host 2
This is an amazing podcast which delves into the lives of some of the most incredible people to have ever lived and asks if they have the reputation they deserve. And so far they've covered some big ones. Cleopatra, Gorbachev, Winston Churchill. Absolute giants of history whose legacies still impact us today. And there's more to come.
- [01:18]
Host 1
And in this season, they're looking into the life of one of the most extraordinary leaders of all time. Genghis Khan, the leader of the Mongol horde and the empire which stretch from Eastern Europe to the Sea of Jap Japan, from Siberia to Southeast Asia. Mongol lands encompassed modern day Korea, China, Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, parts of Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Moldava and Poland, among other territories, and at its peak ruled over an estimated 110 million people.
- [01:51]
Host 2
Just let that sink in for one second. 110 million people. And let me tell you, in this series, you're in for a real treat. Peter, who really is a friend of our podcast, really is.
- [02:01]
Host 1
Frank Kamanka, one of our best friends.
- [02:03]
Host 2
Love him and he's also an expert in Mongolian history. So you couldn't be in better hands at all with these two hosts. We're about to play you a clip from episode four of the series. The Mongols are creeping towards Hungary and the Hungarians. Well, I mean, afraid is an understatement. And just to let you know, this clip does contain mentions of rape, violence and murder.
- [02:24]
Host 1
As does most of Mongol history, we should say.
- [02:27]
Narrator
February 1241. Varad, Hungary. Master Roger races through the city streets in panic, cold air stinging his lungs. He can still see the peasant dropping to his knees, two arrows embedded in his back. His final words rasped out through a blood filled throat. The Mongols are coming inside the church. His sandals slap against the bell tower's stone steps with trembling hands. He pulls on the ropes, peeling out a warning to the unsuspecting city. Frantically, he scans the horizon. To his horror, he sees a dark mass forming on a hilltop. For weeks, news of the Mongols westward invasion has trickled in the devastating pitched battles in Poland, mass rape and murder. Murder in Moldova. Now the barbarian hordes are on their doorstep. Below him, people spill into the streets. Leaning from the tower, he bellows, the Tartars are here. Flee to the woods. Save yourselves. As word spreads, he hears the cries of fear. The Mongol's reputation precedes them. From his vantage point, Master Roger now sees a column of riders tearing through the valley. Soon he can make out horses covered in armor, warriors carrying bows and shields, their helmets glinting in the light. As they reach the city, he hears their blood curdling shrieks, followed by the terrified screams of their victims. They surge through the streets, cutting down men and falling on women. He stumbles from the church and heads in the direction of the forest. Everywhere the ground vibrates from the hoof beats of stampeding horses. Dust and chaos is all around him. An arrow shatters against a wall inches from his head. He breaks into a run, too afraid to look back, and can only pray to God the barbarians don't find him. Master Roger was a real person. He really was a Hungarian based Italian churchman of the time who documented the events of the Mongol invasion. And he wrote, they were a wild people. They inhumanely raped the virgins of the poor and defiled the bed of the powerful whenever they had the chance.
- [04:51]
Expert Guest
Yes, it's terrifying. You know, these people who've come seemingly from nowhere, they look different, they're dressed in different ways, they're on different kinds of horses, different size of horses, and they move with huge speed. Also ahead of them comes these rumors and stories about massive destruction. And I think people are not sure what to believe, whether this is just exaggerations. Surely there can't have been churches that have been set on fire with people inside them. There can't be cities that have been completely demolished. But there's enough knowledge to know that there's reality underpinning the anxieties. With this sort of cloud of disaster.
- [05:27]
Narrator
Coming towards Europe, it must have felt like the apocalypse. These people coming with incredible violence, inflicting total defeat, and they would not stop until they had won. And it was clear that Europeans were completely unprepared for this onslaught. And you just look at the experiences in battle as well, that they had a completely different approach to warfare. I mean, we heard in earlier episodes about Their remarkable horsemanship, their incredible ability to kill on horseback, their precision with arrows, and they're fighting these knights with their really heavy, cumbersome armor, who have a completely different style of battle. And it's quite clear that they are not prepared to fight this new and unknown enemy.
- [06:10]
Expert Guest
So the Mongols advance into Poland and Hungary, and as you mentioned in April 1241, they inflict a crushing defeat on the allied army near Legnica in Silesia. King Bela IV narrowly escapes from the battlefield, but his army doesn't, so they're slaughtered at the Battle of Mohi. But he then escapes down to Dalmatia. He gets to Trogi, where he goes to stay with the Dormy family with some of my ancestors, and then has to be chased through the coastline while the Mongols follow through in hot pursuit, sacking, split, reaching as far as Scutari in Albania before being ordered home. And that arrival of the Mongols in Europe is shattering in terms of what it is that it does for European self confidence. And also about what happens later with European travellers wanting to go and head out eastwards. And John of Plano, Carpini, William Robrooke, and the most famous one, of course, being Marco Polo, going to travel to go and find out what are these worlds that live to our east, how much more sophisticated are they, how do people live, what do they believe in? And also some cases, can they also be converted? And in the 1240s, for example, one of these envoys meets the Great Khan and is given a letter to take back to the Pope which says, all the lands in the world have been conquered by the Mongols. You should come in person, it says, to the Pope, with all the princes and serve us. If you don't do so, the Great Khan warns, I shall make you my enemy. When the Pope asks the Mongol ruler to become Christian again, he gets a reply saying, how do you know whom God absolves and to whom he shows mercy? All the lands from the rising to the setting sun, are subject to me. So that kind of thing shows that the balance of power is switching quite dramatically and Oguday and his successors are part of.
- [07:59]
Host 1
You can follow legacy on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also binge entire seasons early and ad free, by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.