Loading summary
Transcript17 lines
- [00:01]
Narrator/Host
If you want access to bonus episodes, reading lists for every series of Empire, a chat, community discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast ad, free listening and a weekly newsletter, sign up to empire club@www.empirepoduk.com.
- [00:29]
Historian/Presenter 1
This week on our Empire Club miniseries, we see the collision of three individuals whose close and eventually romantic relationship will change the course of history for India and the subcontinent forever. The wife of the last Viceroy of India will literally fall into the arms of the future first Prime Minister of India in Singapore in 1946. But the context of their meeting is just as shocking as the event itself. Here's a clip from episode three, where we discuss the Indian national army and its controversial role in Second World War. I mean, we should talk about the man who precedes him to this theatre of action, who is most definitely an agitator, but this time at a time of war. So let's have a flashback previously, previously in this story.
- [01:19]
Historian/Presenter 2
Wiggle, wiggle.
- [01:20]
Historian/Presenter 1
Yes, Subhash Chandra Bose. We should talk about why the British were so anxious about Nehru's visit. And it is because during the very heat of war, there was another Indian, another educated Indian, who was really causing problems for the Allies. And that was the man they call in this part of the world. We're sitting in Jaipur, let me remind you, recording this. Netaji, who I think has the largest statue in all India, is dedicated to Sebastian Chandra Bose, who almost, had he been successful, would have changed India's allegiances in the Second World War. Let's talk about Sebastian Labose.
- [01:59]
Historian/Presenter 2
He's such an interesting figure. He's Bengali, he's from Calcutta and sort of fiercely intelligent. There's a brother as well, Sarat, and it's all, you know, they're kind of working together. He came up also through the Indian National Congress, so in the same organization as Gandhi and Nehru, very different politics to them. He was from the beginning pretty interested in much more extreme forms of politics, direct action.
- [02:25]
Historian/Presenter 1
He thought they were namby pambi and rubbish. Yes, he did.
- [02:28]
Historian/Presenter 2
He did. And actually a lot of people agreed with him because he actually was elected leader of the Indian National Congress in 1938. Gandhi freaked out, tried to get Nehru to come back and, like, depose him. Nehru refused to do that. So, you know, a very un Gandhian, very much into direct action. He loved violence, super pro violence, loved uniforms.
- [02:49]
Historian/Presenter 1
I mean, he saw that the, you know, Quit India movement should be fought as a war. And so all of the followers of Bose dressed in khaki and they drilled didn't they?
- [02:58]
Historian/Presenter 2
And he was actually very attracted to fascism that was going on in Europe. Now, I think, you know, you have to sort of think this through from an Indian point of view at the time, that if your great enemy is Britain, my enemy's enemy is my friend. Well, maybe it isn't actually that great a friend. You know, obviously that's the kind of dictum that can get you into a lot of trouble in foreign policy. But at that point, he saw a greater affinity with Germany, Italy and Japan than he did with the Allied powers. So Beau's obviously an incredibly controversial figure, but very popular at that point. And when he adopted the name you mentioned, Netaji, which means, you know, dear leader, basically dear leader, that's actually a conscious imitation of Hitler's title, Fuhrer.
- [03:41]
Historian/Presenter 1
Right, okay. All right. So you can understand then where you flash forward now on this conversation, we've done our little time blip. Why, when, when Nehru is coming to that same theater of war. Okay, the war is over.
- [03:54]
Historian/Presenter 2
Yeah.
- [03:55]
Historian/Presenter 1
The reason one thing we didn't mention is that both at the height of his powers was agitating for mutiny. That's right, within the ranks that Indian soldiers, and it was the largest volunteer force in the history of the world. He wanted those Indian soldiers to mutiny against the British. Now when they're at their weakest, this is the way to throw them out of India. He argued, you know, basically, slay your commanding officers. This is the time to get it right.
- [04:22]
Historian/Presenter 2
And he really went for that. And he did this extraordinary dash from India, you know, dressed as a Pathan, through Afghanistan and all this to get to Germany during the war and sort of, you know, turns up in Germany, makes friends with the Nazis, you know, I mean, it's a complicated friendship because they don't, for instance, he had a relationship with a German woman and they really didn't approve that sort of thing, as you can imagine. But at the same time, he started a regiment in the Wehrmacht. So largely kind of Indian soldiers who'd been, who were prisoners of war, he's saying, well, let's turn and fight the British. That's our real battle. So, you know, all of that's happening. And then they send him back by submarine and he kind of washes up, you know, in the east and, you know, sets up in the Andaman Islands and declares that he's now ruler of a free India, that this is happening, you know, and you should mutiny against the British. So obviously a huge anti British agitator.
- [05:18]
Historian/Presenter 1
And, and also, just bear in mind that word mutiny and Indian mutiny. I mean, it's right in the DNA of those who run the civil service and in political circles.
- [05:30]
Historian/Presenter 2
It's like a live wire through them. Even just that word, what happened? And kind of one of the reasons that didn't really go any further is that Bose was taking a flight in 1945 and the plane crashed in Formosa, now Taiwan, and he was killed in that plane crash.
- [05:51]
Historian/Presenter 1
We do hope you enjoyed that clip from our members miniseries on the scandal that shaped partition. And to access that full series, just head to empirepoduk.com empirepod uk to become a friend of the show today.
- [06:17]
Narrator/Host
Throughout history, influence has needed scale, but scale only matters when it travels through routes people can trust. Now Empire sits within Goal Hanger, the independent UK network behind the Rest is politics, the Rest is football. And I believe this, what even one called the Rest is History. Now across the network there are over 65 million full episode streams every month. But Skell is only the beginning. What matters is whether people stay with the conversation. Goal Hanger audiences do. With an average listen time of over 40 minutes, and 68% of GoHanger listeners say they've actually taken action after hearing an ad, nearly double the industry average. For the right partner, Goal Hanger is not just something to be heard, it's a credible route to audiences already listening, watching and crucially, paying attention. To find out more, email partnershipsoalhanger.com.