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Epic Success with Dr Shannon Irvine
Predictable Profits: Can a Membership Explode Your Business? - Interview with Stu McClaren
00:32:04
Are you tired of the feast-or-famine cycle in your business? Looking for a way to create more stability and predictability in your revenue? In this game-changing episode of the Epic Success Podcast, I'm joined by the KING of memberships, Stu...
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- [00:00]
Stu McLaren
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Welcome to the Epic Success podcast. I am your host, Dr. Shannon. All right, this is for you today if you're ready to make more money online, if you are already a business owner. I am so excited to talk to my dear friend Stu McLaren, or if you're just getting started today, I've brought on Stu McLaren to talk about his new book, Predictable Profits. Stu is so generous. He just wrote a book that literally walks you through the entire process of doing what I call making your business bulletproof through a monthly reoccurring revenue model called Memberships. He's going to talk to brand new entrepreneurs on this episode, talking about exactly how to get started. And he's also going to deep dive in for those of us that have been around the block a little bit and would like some more predictable revenue in your business to be able to plan and strategize with your advertising dollars and just really be able to not have to live the launch, to launch, to launch life. So memberships is what we're talking about today. My dear friend Stu McLaren, the King of memberships, is coming on and breaking down everything it will take this year to get a very wildly profitable membership up and going. All right, let's jump in. All right, Stu, welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you to be talking about your new book, Predictable Profits. So welcome back, brother.
- [01:42]
Stu McLaren
Yes, thank you so much. Super proud and, you know, appreciate you bringing me on to talk about it.
- [01:47]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Always, always. So we, we know if you don't know Stu McLaren and I said it at the front, but he is the membership guru. He is the guy I that has helped me create what we call lovingly in the online space, mrr, Monthly Reoccurring Revenue. And I never knew in the beginning how vital that was to staying in business, actually. And so I brought Stu on today. His newest book has come out, the Predictable Profits. And we were talking before the show how he literally spills all the tea on how to go from an idea all the way through to having this membership living out in the world. But I want to rewind the tape a little bit. Stu, what made you fall in love with memberships to begin with? Because I think that's an important piece of this story when you're hearing so many opportunities online, SaaS and AI and all this stuff. And Stu loves his AI. What. What made you fall in love with memberships?
- [02:53]
Stu McLaren
Well, you know, if I rewind back to that moment, it was 2008 was the. The year that I got switched on to memberships and at that point in my career, I had a great business, you know. You know, it was very profitable. I was hitting the milestones that I wanted to hit. I was creating the life that I wanted to create, you know, for myself and, you know, my wife, who I just got married to. But I had a great business, but not a great business model. And the reason that I had this epiphany moment was because my wife and I had just got married and we were talking about, you know, starting a family, like, having kids, and I wanted kids. Like, that was like, something that I wanted to be a dad. I was looking forward to that. But every time we had that conversation, there was, like, this knot in my stomach. And I never knew why, like, why would I be so excited about having kids? And yet, you know, this anxiety, you know, brewing up every time we had that conversation. And what I realized was that anxiety was bubbling up because I had a great business, but not a great business model. And it required me to give more time every time I wanted to grow the business. So I was working one on one with clients, and I had amazing clients. Like, we were doing mid six figures a year. It was awesome. But. But the only way to grow that business was to give more time. And I just didn't have any more time to give. So then, like, in this conversation with my wife about, you know, starting our family, I realized, like, I can't do both things. I can't grow the business and be a present husband and father simultaneously with that business model. And that's, like, for me, was the turning point where I started searching for, like, how could I create more leverage in my business? And it was a friend and mentor that said, hey, Stu, why don't you just teach everything that you're doing for your clients inside of a membership? And I'm like, well, what's a membership? And he said, well, think about it this way. You'll teach one time and be able to serve hundreds, if not thousands of people who are paying you every single month. And I was like, hm. And he's like, and you would just take the things that you're doing for your clients and just teach them to everybody else. And that was the starting point for me. And I just haven't looked back. And what I've realized is, you know, there is something magical about having recurring revenue in your business. It eliminates the number one, you know, fear of entrepreneurs, which is, you know, stress around money, like, where's the next sale going to come from? And when you've got recurring revenue. You don't experience that stress. And that's why I'm just so committed to getting this book in the hands of as many entrepreneurs as possible.
- [05:36]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
And honestly why I was so happy to have you back on the podcast, because this is a message, whether you're just getting started as an entrepreneur, I always say start the right way. Then you never have to skin your knees and be with all the issues that Stu and I had to deal with. And your learning curve becomes so much shorter if you, if you hear this loudly and say, wait, maybe I should start this way. And even if you're an og like you, you've come online and you're a course creator or you're a service provider or you're dabbling with AI or, or maybe an app or whatever the case may be, I love it. The app companies got it right from the beginning. They're like, we want to get this reoccurring over and over again, right?
- [06:22]
Stu McLaren
Yeah, exactly. And that's why we see so many companies who have moved to or added on a recurring component to their, it creates that stability. And, and that's why, like, you know, in the book we talk about, you know, different types of businesses. Even if it's like a product based business or a service based business or a knowledge based business, or even just a community based business, you can add a recurring, you know, membership component to that and it will change the way in which you plan. It'll change the confidence you have as an entrepreneur. You'll invest, be able to invest with confidence in your marketing, in your team, all that kind of stuff. When you know that at the beginning of the month you're going to get paid by however many members that you have inside your membership, it's just like a complete shift in the way you approach business.
- [07:12]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Yeah. And it, and it just alleviates that intense. Like you said, the number one stressor for online entrepreneurs all over the place are those that are getting in. I want to kind of dive into two different sections. So there's, okay, there's the beginner and I'd love for you to talk a little bit about, like, how does a beginner even, even get in the shallow end of thinking about memberships, Kind of what's the thought process behind where they should start, how they should start thinking about what they would do for a membership. And then we'll jump over to the, the person that's been around for a while then maybe thinks about adding a membership to an already existing, maybe coaching business or something like that. But let's start with the beginner. What would you say about that person doing it from the beginning?
- [08:02]
Stu McLaren
Well, I, I talked about it in chapter two. Chapter two is called will this work for you? And basically, like, I break down, you know, how to determine if a membership would be a good fit for your market. And in the book I'll, and I'll share it here, it basically it's three indicators that I'm looking for. Like, first is like, are you in a market where you're solving a problem? You know, and a good example of that would be like weight loss. You know, somebody's not going to go from being overweight to their ideal weight like that. It takes time to solve that problem. Or, you know, my daughter's friend just got a new puppy and I was picking my daughter up from her friend's house the other night and I was chatting with, you know, her friend's mom and the puppy's running around and I said, how's it been with the adjustment with the puppy? And she's like, well, it's been four months of non stop biting and peeing and barking and all the things. And so again, that's a problem, right? Like, you're not going to go from this puppy that's wildly out of control to the perfect puppy like that. It takes time to solve that problem. And so that's a great indicator when you're in a market where you're solving a problem for people, it takes time to solve it. And that's why it would be great for a membership. Now the second indicator that I look for is like, can you teach a skill? So just like problems, skills don't magically, you know, appear overnight. Like it takes time to learn those skills. Whether it's, you know, running a business, whether it is like learning an instrument, whether it is learning some kind of art. Like you don't go from not knowing how to paint to becoming the next Picasso like that. Like, it takes time to solve or to learn those skills. And that's perfect for a membership. And there's so many examples that fall under that bucket of people who are teaching skills. Because the other side of it, it is that you always go deeper and deeper in your level of learning. It's like you and I, we've been in business for a long time and we never stop learning. Like, it's not like we get to the finish line, we're like, oh, I've learned everything. Okay, I'm a master of business. Never have to learn anything ever again. No, like we Were talking before the show. Like you're listening to podcasts and audiobooks and we're constantly reading. We're investing in ourselves and in masterminds and so forth because we always learning. And so learning is an incredible market because you go deeper and deeper in that learning. So number one, I'm looking for problems. Number two, I'm looking for can you teach skills? Number three, I'm looking for can you create convenience for people? So this is really where like you take something that's complex and you simplify it. And so there's many examples of this in our community. We've got many multimillion dollar memberships that are in the teaching market. I think of Anna DeGilio. She has a seven and a half million dollar a year business providing lesson plans for grade two teachers. Because lesson plans is a nightmare. Like, my wife was a teacher for 10 years and her evenings and weekends were consumed prepping lessons. And so Anna comes along and she says, don't even worry about prepping those lessons. Here they are. All you got to do is just take them and, you know, implement them in the classroom. It's like a huge time saver for teachers. So lesson plans is a great example or I of Andrew Kraus over in Australia. He provides real estate agents Facebook ad templates so they don't have to become a master at Facebook ads. They can just take his template, tweak the house details, and bada bing, bada boom. They've got a proven template to sell houses and. Or I think of like Nicole Melton. She has a membership providing social media templates for beauty professionals so they don't have to worry about what to post on social. They take her templates and they can run with it. So it's saving people time by making things more convenient. So if you check the box yes to any one of those, you don't have to check all three, just one. Like, can you solve a problem? If yes, green light, thumbs up, move forward. Can you teach a skill? If yes, green light, thumbs up, move forward. Or can you create convenience? If yes, green light, thumbs up, move forward. You're in a great market for a membership.
- [12:10]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Oh, so good, Stu. And I'm going to ask the question. I hear a lot as I train new coaches and I know someone listening is if they're listening, they have this question. But yeah, Stu, like I'm not an expert. Like I have the skill. I'm a little, like, I've gotten a little bit ahead. But who, you know, can I really do this? If I'm not, you know, you or Shannon or somebody else that already has these years of experience. So I'd love to hear your, your thoughts on that.
- [12:41]
Stu McLaren
Yeah. Because there are many examples of, like, two approaches. So first approach is that you are just that curiously driven, you know, person who has a passion and an interest for that subject matter. And what you're doing is you're curating the information to be able to support people on their journey. So good example is John Gallagher. When he started his membership, it's called Herb Mentor. He, he wasn't an herb expert. He. He wasn't an herbalist, but he had a passion for it. And so what he did was he just used that passion and that curiosity to curate and bring in outside experts who could speak on the topics that his members wanted to hear. Now, fast forward, I think he's in year 16 of that membership, which is crazy. And certainly over that time, he's now developed an expertise. In the beginning, he wasn't. So that's one approach is like, you know, taking the approach that you're the curator of that information and really helping bring the right information to the members who are on that journey. The second approach is you just partner. And there's two examples of this that I want to share. Both their names are Scott. So one is Scott Paley, and he created the membership called the Nonprofit Leadership Lab. And he's helping nonprofit leaders be able to thrive with their nonprofits. They've got more than 6,000 plus members in that membership. Now, he is not the expert. He partnered with a woman. Her name is Joan Gary, who is the expert. So he took and handled all of the membership, all of the marketing, all of that side of things. She is the, you know, content expert on subject matter expert. They partner together. That's a multimillion dollar a year membership. Another example is the other Scott. His name is Scott Koran. He was in our program and was thinking about memberships, wasn't sure, you know, which direction he was going to go in. And he was at a backyard barbecue with one of his longtime buddies, Ryan. And Ryan is a very tall dentist. And Ryan was moaning and groaning at this barbecue about how his back was hurting because he's bent over his clients all the time. And so Scott says, well, why don't you like, you know, teach all that you have done to grow your dental practice in a membership? Because Ryan just happens to be like the Michael Jordan of Invisalign. Like most dentists will do six to seven Invisalign procedures a year. Ryan does six to 700 procedures a year. So, you know, Scott recognized, Ryan's got this expertise and you know, why don't we create a membership? They created a membership and it was slow moving in the beginning because Ryan wasn't building an audience of other dentists that wanted to learn what it is that he was doing. But they fast tracked that by realizing that there were people who already had that audience. And slowly but surely they've now built that to the point where they launched that membership in 2018. And fast forward to today, that membership has now done more than three $30 million serving dentists. And Scott is not the expert in that membership. His partner Ryan is. So number one approach is that you can curate the information just like John Gallagher. Or number two is that you can partner with an expert just like Scott Paley and Scott Koran have done in their memberships.
- [16:17]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Oh, so such gold. Because it kind of gets rid of that impostor syndrome right off the bat. And then after the herbalist that you were talking about, like he got to go and learn the thing he loved the most while he was.
- [16:30]
Stu McLaren
And he'd get paid for it. Yeah, it's, it's epic. And you know that the fun part about that approach is like, you can still be that student, you can still be that person that is wanting to learn the stuff. Like use that, you know, to your advantage. Like that's how you curate the information. It's like, I don't know how to do this, so what do I need to know to be able to learn how to do this and bring in the people that know the stuff and that your members are going to eat that stuff up as well.
- [16:55]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
What I love about each individual that you talked about too is one of the biggest fear of somebody brand new is the whole niching down, right? Or niching down or whatever you want to call it. And you just talked about like seriously niche down things that are at like 30 million and 7 million and those kind of numbers that you wouldn't think like a dentist teaching dentists how to do Invisalign would be something that would be that, you know, ongoing. It's crazy.
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Stu McLaren
There is so much opportunity. Shannon, like it is ridiculous. Like I think of Bonnie Snowden. So she's over in the UK and listen to how niched her membership is. She teaches people how to draw realistic animals with colored pencils. Like it is super niche now. She launched that membership site in 2021. In two years she crossed the million dollar milestone in her third year. It was a two and a half million dollar a year membership teaching people how to draw realistic animals with colored pencils. Like, it is crazy. But the amazing part about the world that we live in right now is that no matter what your passion or what your interest, there are others around the world who share the same passion, interest. Like I always like to say, like, the Internet brings us weirdos together. Like, if you got like a peculiar interest, the good news is there are others around the world who share that same passion and interest. It's just about bringing them together.
- [18:26]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
I love it. I love it. So, so that's for our beginner. And in the book, Stu literally holds your hand step by step by step from ideation all the way through. I've never seen a book this deep in terms of being able to walk you through the process. So if you're brand new and you're thinking about this run, don't walk to get this book. It's gonna become your, I'm a Bible girl, but it's gonna become your, your business bible to really building that membership. But a lot of my listeners, Stu, they came into the online world in the big boom, you know, the 2018, 2019, 2020 big boom. And they maybe grew really quickly during the time everybody was throwing money like rain around the Internet. And now they're settling into what I call a real business. This is, everybody says, oh, we're in a difficult. I'm like, no, no, this is a normal business. Yeah, you just had, you just came in, in this Disneyland era and you think that's normal, but it's not really normal. And so I would love for you to talk to the person who maybe started a course or maybe because that's a lot of times people come online and they do. They think, I just want to create a course. And, and it's, it's gonna. The Internet marketers tell me I'm gonna be sitting on a beach with a pina colada and it's just gonna be ringing in the sales, you know, while I'm sleeping. And so they've already come to the realization that that ain't happening. And so I'd love for you to talk about the idea of a membership with an already existing business.
- [20:04]
Stu McLaren
Well, I think for anybody that has created courses, I would just, you know, number one, I would be doing a happy dance right now because you've already done like the hard work of like, identifying the market, creating an offer that, you know, people are wanting clearly and are, are purchasing. And the other side of it is that like when people come to the end of the course, I just want to encourage everybody to ask themselves, like, are there people who are asking questions like, well, what happens to the community at the end of this course? Like, will I continue to get support? Like who? If I've got questions, who am I? Who do I ask? Like, if, if you're getting and receiving those kinds of questions, that's a really good sign for a membership. Because, you know, for the record, I love courses. I love courses because courses can fast track somebody's learning curve. But there's a big difference between knowing what to do and how to do it versus actually implementing it and getting the result. And that's where a membership helps bridge that gap from knowing what to do and how to do it to actually getting the result. And what we're doing is we're facilitating and we're supporting and we're helping people implement what they've learned to be able to get the outcome and result. And the crazy part is, is that if you were to offer that at the end of your course, you will see ridiculous conversion rates because people automatically feel the gap between having the information and knowing what to do and how to do it and actually getting the result. They need that help in between they going to have questions, they want to follow up and get support. And that's where a membership can immediately slip in and fill that gap and create that recurring revenue for the business owner that wasn't there before. Because the downside to courses is that you've got to market it on a regular basis. You're always looking for new customers. New customers, customers, new customers. But why not carry forward that momentum of bringing in a customer and make them a customer for life, where you get to support them on their journey of implementing the thing that you've taught and getting results. And by the way, the other, you know, sneaky part about this is that you're also going to be able to help your people get better results and you're going to have incredible case studies and stories that you can use in your marketing. So it's a win, win, win for everybody. They get the result faster, better, easier. You get these incredible stories and you've generated recurring revenue in the process.
- [22:35]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
And I'm a perfect example. You know, Stu and I had one of these 15 second conversations as it is when we're speaking at places and he knew I had a coaching certification and I do it. How do I like, where do I put, I need to get monthly reoccurring revenue. In addition, because I was getting a little bit tired. I love launching and if you come in during a launch, I love you, I love you. And I pour my heart and soul into that. And there are times where I need to recoup from that energetic flow. And so I said to Stu like, what should I do? And he's like, back in membership. That's all he said. Literally back in membership. And I'm like, okay, I'll just dive into Stu stuff because I'm in this community too. So I started looking at that. Well, we have a coaching certification that we launch and, and it's very unique in the marketplace because it teaches people how to truly get their clients 100% brain based transformation, which is what you get paid for as a coach. And so they do the same thing you just described. They come in, they get every little piece of how to do it, how to apply it. So they get all the knowledge and the skill and they even learned a launching mechanism to get their first client. But who wants to? Nobody stops there. So at the very end, we launched our coaches Millionaire membership. This is a high ticket membership because these folks are in kind of a higher level program and that opened up so much freedom for us and ability to serve the. Stu and I are people, people. We love our people. And so just, yes. Reoccurring revenue. Yes. Peace of mind, Yes. I can actually create a marketing budget. Not out of thin air. It's fantastic. But I get to really help people get to the finish line. And anybody who's in this business for impact memberships is where it's at for sure.
- [24:25]
Stu McLaren
It, it truly is. And it is one of the biggest blessings is being on that journey with your clients and with your customers and watching them be able to go from, you know, where they are to be able to getting the result and being part of that journey all along the way. It's, it's pretty inspiring and it's, you know, it's certainly fulfilling.
- [24:44]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
So I think we've covered the beginner who's getting started so they start the right way and they don't have to get all those bruises. And hopefully we've inspired you that are seasoned OGs and OBs like to get in and get this membership up and going. And again, back to the book itself. Like no matter which stage you're at, there is a walkthrough of that process. What Stu do you see that gets in the way of people making this, this life altering business changing decision?
- [25:17]
Stu McLaren
Yeah, we talk a lot about it throughout the book in the different chapters because There are these moments when, you know, we get excited about it and then we start to implement and then we'll hit like some kind of a question and questions like, hold us back. And I've tried to as much as possible address the questions in the book. We've got resources and templates and swipe files that are all part of the book. You'll see that when you, when you get it. And. But people are still going to get in their head when it comes to like actually taking action. And more often than not, it's. They're overcomplicating things, they're overthinking things. There they are, keeping it simple. Like my, you know, one of my gifts, I think you could say is like a gift and a curse. Like, I, I just don't have the brain to like, be able to do complex things. Like, I have to just simplify it into its essence in order for me to be able to move forward. And my wife makes fun of me all the time because, like, when I have conversations with like our accountants and stuff, I'm just like, okay, I just need like the one page summary. Like, just give me like the highlights. Like, you know, this column is bigger than that column. That's good, Stu, Great job. Awesome. Okay. Exactly. And so that's a curse in one sense, but it's also a tremendous gift in, in others. And so I share that because the number one thing that I would say is people over complicate it and overthink it. So there's a process in the book. It's actually chapter. Let me just find it here. It's chapter 16, the fastest and easiest way to launch your membership. It is, I walk through a process that anybody can use right now to be able to launch their membership and immediately begin welcoming paying customers. And I guarantee you that process is, it works. We have thousands of examples and stories of it working. But I guarantee you there's going to be people who will overcomplicate it and overthink it and they're going to say to themselves, the gremlins will creep in. And we'll say it's, there's got to be more to this. And so what I would say is just like, keep it simple, trust the process, start moving forward. And what will happen is that you'll do your founding member launch and you'll welcome a bunch of members, which is awesome. And that bunch of members is going to grow. Like Jennifer Chamberlain, welcome 20 members. When she initially launched her membership after year one, it was grown to 100 members. After year two, it was 200 members. Year three was the year that she hit her inflection point and went from 200 members to more than 2,000 members. And so you can never get to the thousands until you get started and welcome that first paying member. And so I just want to encourage everybody to get out of their own way, keep it simple and start moving forward.
- [28:03]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Oh, my gosh. So many other questions I could ask you, but I think that's a perfect place for us to wrap this interview. Stu, thanks for coming on and demystifying this membership idea. And I hope the listeners can see just how simple and quick and easy it is to implement. And literally, Stu wrote the Bible with this latest book, predictable prophets that you see there behind him. So I'm going to encourage you in the show notes, you're going to see a link. We're actually going to do a giveaway. So here's what I love. I don't know. Stu and I, we're, we both have a heart for Africa. We both have charities running in Africa. We just, we just love generosity. And so one of the things I want to do, Stu doesn't know this. He's like, what's she doing? So if you buy the book, you're going to, you're going to send over an Instagram dm, you're going to send over their seat, say, I bought a book. You're going to be entered in to a contest where we're going to give away 10 books and you're going to be able to give it away and you're going to also win some cash prizes. So the winners will win.
- [29:16]
Stu McLaren
Wow.
- [29:17]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
As well as being able to give a best friend buddy in the business a book of stew. So make sure you participate in this. It's a full generosity moment. And honestly, I'm doing it more so because if you've been dabbling, thinking, praying about what do I do, how do I do this thing? This is your sign, this is your answer, this is your moment, your answer to prayer to go get this book, follow the recipes. Stu and I love the step by step. And he literally, I told him, I said, usually I don't get through cover to cover before I do an interview. And I couldn't put it down. And I'm in the business, but I was like, oh, that's a good idea. I'm going to take that idea. I'm going to do that today. And already this morning with my team, I'm like, did you implement that thing? And they were like, and it's already working. So, Stu, thank you for coming onto the podcast and just sharing the methodology that has become synonymous with your name and continuing to take a stand for people getting out of that trap of being stressed around money and being able to experience the freedom that memberships bring.
- [30:26]
Stu McLaren
Well, I appreciate it, buddy, and thank you so much. Again, I want to encourage everybody, Go get a copy. You can get it at your favorite bookstores. You can get it on Amazon, wherever books are being sold. But Predictable Profits is the name. And I'm on a mission. I'm on a mission to help other business owners be able to alleviate that stress of not knowing where the next sale is going to come from. You can do that by starting a membership. I outline everything in Predictable Profits. Go get a copy today. Shannon, thank you so much, buddy. Appreciate you.
- [30:53]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Appreciate you. We'll see you next time. Bye for now.
- [30:58]
Stu McLaren
See ya.
- [30:59]
Dr. Shannon Irvin
Who? Oh, my goodness. Was that just fire? I mean, Stu just breaks it down with such simple steps. And I know if you're listening to this podcast, that's something that is near and dear to your heart. Just give me the steps and I'll make it happen. So go out and grab his book Predictable Profits. And like I said, DM me the receipt that you have, whether it's Amazon or Kindle, whatever way you buy it, DM me the receipt in Instagram @ Dr. Shannon Irvin. And that will be your entry into our contest. We're going to be giving away cash for prizes. We're going to be giving away 10 books. Every winner is going to win a book as well to give away so you can be a hero to somebody else. And I'm excited to be able to do that to support this very incredible book, Predictable profits from Stu McLaren. All right, that's what I have for you this week on the Epic Success Podcast. Until next week, bye for now.