210: On the SAG Awards, Jane Fonda, Real Housewives (Feat. Liz Goldwyn)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Every Outfit Episode 210 – On the SAG Awards, Jane Fonda, Real Housewives (Feat. Liz Goldwyn)
Release Date: February 28, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni

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1. Tribute to Jesus Guerrero ([01:08] - [02:54])

The episode opens with a heartfelt tribute from Liz Goldwyn to her late friend, Jesus Guerrero, a renowned celebrity hairstylist who tragically passed away at the age of 34. Liz shares her deep sorrow and admiration for Jesus, emphasizing his talent and generous spirit.

Liz Goldwyn ([01:17]): "I just want people to know that he was a really beautiful person and he was the best. And we're gonna miss him so much."

2. Overview of the SAG Awards ([04:09] - [19:03])

Fashion Highlights: Chelsea and Lauren delve into the fashion moments from the SAG Awards, discussing standout outfits and styling choices.

• Cynthia Erivo in Givenchy Haute Couture:
  Lauren praises the thoughtful recreation of Alexander McQueen’s 1997 design, highlighting the alignment between the original model, Deborah Shaw, and Cynthia’s look.

• Pamela Anderson in Dior:
  They critique Pamela's 1950s-inspired glamour look, debating the balance between makeup and hair styling.

• Timothée Chalamet's Leather Chrome Hearts Suit:
  Both hosts admire Timothée’s edgy ensemble, drawing parallels to iconic figures like Nicolas Cage and Bob Dylan.

• Colman Domingo and Drew Starkey in Valentino:
  The duo appreciates the classic yet interesting approach to men's fashion showcased by the actors.

Liz Goldwyn ([09:23]): "There is no amount of fashion that can create the raw elegance that Ted Danson just naturally possesses."

Notable Speeches and Moments: The discussion shifts to memorable speeches, particularly focusing on the Lifetime Achievement Award presented to Jane Fonda.

• Jane Fonda’s Speech:
  Jane Fonda delivers a powerful call to action, urging attendees to take a stand against societal injustices. Chelsea and Liz commend her for using her platform to inspire change.

Chelsea Fairless ([20:10]): "Make no mistake, empathy is not weak or woke."

Award Outcomes and Predictions: Chelsea and Liz analyze the award winners, particularly Timothée Chalamet’s victory over Adrien Brody, speculating on potential Oscar upsets.

Lauren Garoni ([27:22]): "Timmy did win at the SAG. What are you, 80 years old?"

3. Interview with Liz Goldwyn ([39:13] - [72:39])

Personal Moves and Wardrobe Transformation: Chelsea Fairless discusses her recent relocation to Hawaii and the accompanying massive wardrobe purges. She shares the emotional and practical challenges of decluttering a lifelong fashion collection.

Chelsea Fairless ([39:44]): "I have every love letter saved from when I was like 12. I'm sorry. So sentimental."

Engagement with Celebrities: Chelsea recounts her experiences interacting with high-profile individuals like Sarah Jessica Parker and assisting her in purchasing her first Hermes Kelly bag, highlighting the intertwining of personal relationships and the fashion industry.

Chelsea Fairless ([55:09]): "I helped her buy her first Kelly bag, and she was so excited."

Fashion Industry Insights: The conversation shifts to the dynamics of the fashion industry, specifically the short tenure of creative directors at major brands like Gucci. Chelsea expresses concern over the fast-paced changes driven by commercial interests.

Chelsea Fairless ([59:37]): "Designers are treated like chess pieces. And it's just gotten worse and worse and worse."

Collaborations and Brand Partnerships: Discussion about the Nike and Skims partnership, with mixed feelings about the collaboration between sportswear giant Nike and shapewear brand Skims.

Liz Goldwyn ([63:16]): "But Skims has done some stuff that is quite innovative. Like the nipple stuff."

Upcoming Events and Future Trends: The hosts speculate on the themes and potential controversies surrounding the upcoming Met Gala, especially regarding the focus on Black style and the influence of political sentiments on fashion.

Chelsea Fairless ([68:23]): "It's the last bastion of resistance and revolution. And, like... we are in our documentary moment."

Closing Remarks: The episode wraps up on an optimistic note, emphasizing the importance of joy, fashion, and resilience in challenging times.

Chelsea Fairless ([72:10]): "Joy and fashion and lightness and happiness is something that we have to really cling to, lean into, you know, always."

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Depth: The episode begins with a sincere tribute, setting a tone of vulnerability and personal connection.

• Fashion Analysis: In-depth discussions of notable outfits at the SAG Awards provide listeners with both critique and appreciation of contemporary fashion trends.

• Industry Commentary: The hosts offer critical insights into the volatility of creative positions within the fashion industry, highlighting the tension between artistic vision and commercial demands.

• Celebrity Interactions: Personal anecdotes about interactions with celebrities offer a glimpse into the behind-the-scenes world of fashion and entertainment.

• Future Trends and Events: Speculation about upcoming events like the Met Gala underscores the hosts’ engagement with current and future fashion landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

• Liz Goldwyn ([09:23]): "There is no amount of fashion that can create the raw elegance that Ted Danson just naturally possesses."

• Chelsea Fairless ([20:10]): "Make no mistake, empathy is not weak or woke."

• Lauren Garoni ([27:22]): "Timmy did win at the SAG. What are you, 80 years old?"

• Chelsea Fairless ([59:37]): "Designers are treated like chess pieces. And it's just gotten worse and worse and worse."

• Chelsea Fairless ([72:10]): "Joy and fashion and lightness and happiness is something that we have to really cling to, lean into, you know, always."

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Conclusion:
Episode 210 of Every Outfit seamlessly blends fashion critique with personal narratives and industry insights. From honoring a fallen friend to dissecting the sartorial choices at the SAG Awards, and engaging in a candid interview with Liz Goldwyn, Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni provide a rich and engaging dialogue that resonates with both fashion enthusiasts and general listeners alike.

Transcript

[Lauren Garoni]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garoni]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garoni]

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[Liz Goldwyn]

I spent $40,000 on shoes.

[Lauren Garoni]

What's the matter, Morty?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

[Lauren Garoni]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't. Hi, I'm Lauren Garoni.

[Liz Goldwyn]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless. Welcome to yet another episode of the Every Outfit podcast.

[Lauren Garoni]

We cannot be stopped, Chelsea.

[Liz Goldwyn]

We're still doing this. Why? I don't know.

[Lauren Garoni]

Because the people want it. And by the people, I mean the tens upon tens of people that listen to this podcast every week.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I just want to say I've had a bit of anxiety about recording this week because I. I feel like I'm off my game because my dear friend Jesus Guerrero passed away this week very unexpectedly. He was only 34. He was a really beautiful person. He was very, very close with my wife. They were like two peas in an oversized black Balenciaga podcast. And it's. I mean, it's horrible. It's just. It's just horrible. And it's. It's sad. And some of you may have read about this online because Jesus was a celebrity hairstylist. He worked with Kylie and Kim and Katie and JLO and everyone. And he was so talented. But I feel like his career was actually the least interesting thing about him. He was such a kind hearted, generous person. And I had grand plans to write him a really fabulous obituary for the pod, which really encapsulated who he was. But I just do not want to cry on the podcast today. And I don't think that Jesus would want me to be a messy bitch, so to speak. So I guess I just want people to know that he was a really beautiful person and he was the best. And we're gonna miss him so much.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, guys, I'm going over to hug Chelsea.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Just so you know, I guess I. I appreciate when I hear from people that listen to this podcast when they. When they say, I'm going through something hard. And I like listening to the show because it distracts me from all of those things. It's a privilege to be able to do that. And I think today I need a little bit of that myself, which is why I'm going to instigate a hard pivot into pop culture. But, Lauren, first, we have an exciting little announcement. Again, horrible transition. I don't know how we get out of that, but we will.

[Lauren Garoni]

This is maybe the hardest transition we've ever done, but we are going to get into all of the pop culture things that we've missed the past few weeks. But I just want to tell the Fuckettes to stay tuned, because later in this episode, we are going to be talking to Liz Goldwin, the legend. Yes, we're breaking podcast protocol for a very special person, which is Liz Goldwyn. Cannot wait for that discussion, which at this time hasn't happened yet. But will it will.

[Liz Goldwyn]

And hopefully I will have collected myself by then. Anywho, the SAG Awards, that happened. I watched it. I remember very little. But perhaps you can refresh my memory.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I'll start by saying I was there with you. I came over on Sunday and we watched the red carpet together. This year, the SAG Awards were hosted on Netflix, which I wonder if that's led people to watch it more.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yes, Netflix was a glow up for the SAG Awards, one that it desperately needed.

[Lauren Garoni]

I do know that Netflix is putting on more live events, but I just have to say that when I saw the phrase a Netflix Live event come across as the SAG Awards were starting, something felt incorrect about that Netflix. I need you to show me a movie that came out seven years ago that I've never heard of. That's your place in my life.

[Liz Goldwyn]

No, I think this is good because the SAG Awards is something that we've always watched because we're huge fucking nerds. So we care. And it's kind of validating that it has a better distributor, that there are potentially more eyeballs on the SAG Awards.

[Lauren Garoni]

That there might be an overlap between those that watch the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight might also be watching Jane Fonda give a rousing lifetime Achievement award speech.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Do we want to start with the fashion or the awards?

[Lauren Garoni]

I say let's get into the what I'll call notable looks. I have three.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Okay.

[Lauren Garoni]

Cynthia Erivo in Givenchy Haute Couture, fall winter 1997.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Designed by McQueen, styled by Jason Bolden, who also styles Nicole Kidman and has been crushing it lately. This was so special. And you can really see the thought process here because this gown was originally modeled by Deborah Shaw on the Runway, who, of all models, has the closest physical resemblance to Cynthia Erivo. So it's quite cool to see this piece re emerge on someone that is close to who McQueen envisioned wearing this to begin with.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know that we've spoken, or shall I say I've spoken, about my tiredness of celebrities and stylists pulling archival looks for the Runway, but I want it to be understood I don't mean this look.

[Liz Goldwyn]

When it's done right, it's done right. I'm with you. Okay, who else?

[Lauren Garoni]

Pamela Anderson in Dior, wearing no makeup, but a full 1950s glamour hair beat, which is, I think, what we need to discuss.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah. I think you either have to add makeup or take away hair, which is what I would have done.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. And I think that kind of Grecian style dress that she was wearing would have looked better with not that hair, not that hair. Like, if there was just stick straight Pamela Anderson, no makeup. Kind of an Ali McGraw in the 70s vibe, stronger look.

[Liz Goldwyn]

A lot of stars could do less contrived beauty and hair in general, but she was beautiful, and the gown was beautiful.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I think the perfect intersection of a contrived look that also feels effortless would be Timmy in his leather chrome heart suit.

[Liz Goldwyn]

He looked cool as fuck. And I say that as someone that hates a bolo tie 99% of the time. This was that 1% of bolo ties that I actually like his style.

[Lauren Garoni]

And also the stunts he's been pulling on the complete unknown press tour. Like he showed up to London on a lime bike. I think at the New York premiere, he dressed like Bob Dylan, but the way Bob Dylan looked at the Sundance premiere of a movie he was in in 2003, it's really great because we've.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Seen him do Twinkie Eddie Slimane red carpet thing where he looks very chic and very tasteful. And I think it's interesting to see him experimenting with different silhouettes and being a bit more eccentric. And I'm not the biggest Chrome Hearts person, as we previously established, but this is what they do best. This and make leather jackets with crosses for Cher.

[Lauren Garoni]

If Timmy is any previous actor reincarnate, it is less Daniel Day Lewis or Leonardo DiCaprio. It is Nicolas Cage, and there is no man who would show up on the red carpet in a full chrome hearts leather suit more than Nicolas Cage. And now Timmy.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I also liked seeing Colman Domingo and Drew Starkey in Valentino. There is nothing chica that a man who can pull off a scarf that doesn't look like he's trying too hard. You know, that's something that can really go either way. And when it works, it really works. And I think it works here. They look very classic, but it's also just more interesting than a typical tuxedo. Although, you know who wore a typical tuxedo and looked fucking major? Ted Danson.

[Lauren Garoni]

Guys. Well, I see you remember because all I remember from your red carpet commentary and your commentary for the SAG is how much you love Ted Danson.

[Liz Goldwyn]

There is no amount of fashion that can create the raw elegance that Ted Danson just naturally possesses. He, to me, is the most beautiful guy. It's actually kind of astounding how elegant he is.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think the shock of white hair does a lot as well.

[Liz Goldwyn]

The bone structure, the height, just the way he carries himself and the way he moves. I'm surprised that he hasn't been brought into this sort of Prada men of a certain age brand ambassador fold.

[Lauren Garoni]

He's got to stop doing network television. That's his crime.

[Liz Goldwyn]

That's what's holding him back. But to me, of all of the actors, especially television actors, he's really aged like a fine wine. This is glamour.

[Lauren Garoni]

I also just want to tell the Fuckettes that a highlight for me was I got to explain to you that Drew Starsky and Harris Dickinson are two separate men. Even though to be fair, they look exactly the same.

[Liz Goldwyn]

And I still don't know which one is which.

[Lauren Garoni]

Which one's in Queer and which one is in Baby Girl. I'll tell you one thing, Chell, it's not the one you think. I'm back to discuss one of my favorite sponsors, Nutrafol. You should love your hair, but that can be hard to do if you're dealing with shedding or thinning. And I know a thing or two about shedding. There is nothing worse than when you are wearing a new top or new sweater and it is completely ruined because your hair is everywhere. Luckily, Nutrafol is here to help their whole body approach to hair health works from the inside out so you can start loving your hair again. Everyone's root causes of hair thinning are different. So a one size fits all approach to hair growth doesn't cut it. Nutrafol has multiple formulas that are tailored to give your hair what it needs to grow through different stages such as postpartum and menopause, as well as for different lifestyles such as plant based diets. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to Nutrafol.com and enter promo code ALFID, find out why 4,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutrafol for healthier hair. Nutrafol.com spelled n u t r a f ol.com promo code outfit that's neutrophil.com.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Promo code outfit Also, another person that I really liked at the SAG Awards was Nicola Coughlin. Apologies to the Irish people if I'm butchering her name in Dior. I don't think that Dior is doing a lot of interesting things these days, as we've previously established. But one thing that they are doing is recreating highly recognizable Dior designs from the 40s and 50s on plus sized women. We first saw this with ISUT at Cannes when they recreated the bar suit for her. And now we get this very classic belted coat dress. And it's cool to see women who were not historically able to wear these clothes wear these clothes. And I also think it just speaks to the general timelessness of Christian Dior and how brilliant his designs are. And they're brilliant on people that he never even envisioned wearing his clothes. And this led me to wonder, like, what is Dior's sizing actually like? Because can you buy this shit? And I was pleased to discover. I don't know if this is true of all of their clothes. I doubt that it is. But if you want to get that very classic Dior bar jacket, they go up to a size 50, which is basically a 2XL.

[Lauren Garoni]

What helped make this look not be 1950s glamour drag is the inclusion of the opera length black leather gloves.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I think the biggest trapping of the old Hollywood look is when you start to look like Jessica Rabbit and not in a cool Amanda Lepore kind of way.

[Lauren Garoni]

There's only one person who can make it cool, and that's Amanda Lepore, truly.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Oh, also Jamie Lee Curtis in Dolce. It was very like Drag Race meets Fellini. But I don't mean that as a diss. I mean that as a compliment. I love how extreme and campy and bizarre it was. And she certainly has the personality to go along with a really showy, kind of funny look like that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I feel like she's also become what Jack Nicholson was in the 90s to award shows. She's kind of become that person. Like certainly when she announced that Colin Farrell won. She announced it by revealing that he gave her Covid at the Golden Globes, which is sort of that in Hollywood. Goss that I enjoy, that I feel like is missing in the over publicized over policing that goes on in Hollywood right now. So love her.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Moving on to the ceremony, where do we want to start?

[Lauren Garoni]

At the tippy top. I did appreciate even though Kristen Bell hosted, she was not in the opening segment, which was basically a scene from Hacks written for the SAG Awards. With the idea being that Deborah Vance has been asked to host the SAG Awards, which, I mean, a bold choice because for the first few minutes I was like, that actually would be great if Jean Smart as Deborah Vance hosted the SAG Awards.

[Liz Goldwyn]

That needs to happen. Don't tease a better concept.

[Lauren Garoni]

But she wasn't the host. Of course. Meg Stadler got it wrong. She's not hosting the SAG Awards. It was instead Kristen Bell, who. Yeah, I guess she has the correct personality to be an award show host.

[Liz Goldwyn]

That doesn't exactly sound like a rave.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, I think she has the perfect bouncy personality coming off of a very successful Netflix television series. Which you did not care for. Nobody wants this is not me.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Did not want.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, you took the title to heart. But she can sing, she can dance. This probably went over both of our heads. But I subsequently read that singing piece that she did. The beginning do you want to be an actor? Was reworking lyrics from the song do youo Want to Build a Snowman From Frozen.

[Liz Goldwyn]

See, I didn't know that either.

[Lauren Garoni]

I. Yeah, see, the SAG Awards never miss just because since the beginning of the award show, they've had a winning bit. And that bit is the I'm an actor bit, which is what is typically kicked off the show where they go in the audience and different actors say their first moments of them knowing when they wanted to be an actor or embarrassing first roles they had.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It's very public service announcement.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know that the SAG Awards are kind of cringe because it's actors awarding other actors talking about how important acting is. But on the other side of things, it is maybe the only outward facing pro union event. Yeah, because they're in the Screen Actors Guild and basically everyone that gets on stage talks about how great being in a union is.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Being in a union is great. I thought it was so cool that when Timmy won, he thanked his mom who works for Actors Equity, which is basically SAG for theater actors. So a lot of people in SAG are also in Actors Equity. Yes, we Love unions. Especially here on the Every Outfit podcast.

[Lauren Garoni]

Except the fact that there's no podcasting union.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Speaking of Timmy's speech.

[Lauren Garoni]

And lastly, I can't downplay the significance of this award because it means the most to me. And I know we're in a subjective business, but the truth is, I'm really in pursuit of greatness. I know people don't usually talk like that, but I want to be one of the greats. I'm inspired by the greats. I'm inspired by the greats here. Tonight, I felt a pretty uncontroversial statement, but I don't know, according to the Internet, people had issues with this. But I don't know if that's actually true, because I just immediately saw the backlash to people thinking that this speech was annoying.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I don't think it's annoying. He's being honest. And he said, people expect you to sort of downplay and pretend like all of this was effortless. But he said, this was five years of my life playing this character, preparing for this role. I don't fault him for that. As someone that has no desire to pursue greatness themselves, I appreciate other people who are like that, who are perfectionists, who want to master their craft.

[Lauren Garoni]

It does bear a conversation of like, last year, you had someone like Bradley Cooper who made Maestro. He wrote it, he directed it, he was in it. He spent years with Leonard Bernstein's family, and somehow he was looked at as a tryhard. But for Timmy to just outwardly be like, yeah, I want to be one of the greats, why is that different? Timmy's just got Riz.

[Liz Goldwyn]

He does, and he deserved this award, and I'm happy he won.

[Lauren Garoni]

I agree with you. His performances and all of the other performances did elevate what could have otherwise been a pretty trite biopic.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, I think it was just exciting to see someone else win because the same people have been winning all throughout awards season thus far. This was an upset.

[Lauren Garoni]

And he did say backstage that this was the only time in the award season run that he actually didn't write a speech. He was like, I have written a speech for every other award show, and I've lost. So today I was like, fuck it, and I won.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, I'm sure this was a version of one of those speeches.

[Lauren Garoni]

Look, I appreciate that he was basically the only actor who did not comment about how heavy the award was.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah, that was a breath of fresh.

[Lauren Garoni]

As soon as Kieran Culkin, who was the first to win, discussed for the bulk of his speech, which was brilliant when he did it about the weight of the award and the self importance of actors. And that's probably why they made this award so heavy. That was brilliant. But I knew. I knew every other person who got on stage was going to be like, wow, Kieran was right.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It is heavy having held one of those. They are incredibly heavy. It's actually crazy that that's what they give people. But you know what's even crazier? The award that the Lifetime Achievement person gets at sag, it's kind of like a tragedy comedy mask. It's the scariest looking award I've ever seen. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Lauren Garoni]

No, of course I know what you're talking about. I mean, it makes sense that that would be the Lifetime achievement award, but also because it's the Lifetime achievement award, I hope it's not as heavy as the regular SAG awards. What are you trying to kill? Jane Fond.

[Liz Goldwyn]

That was cool. Jane Fond is one of the most profoundly inspiring people on the planet. She could have just been a really good actress. You know, she didn't need to do all that, but she did. Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

And she's one of the few actors who has really walked the walk and talked the talk, and she talked that talk in this speech as well. Make no mistake, empathy is not weak or woke. And by the way, woke just means you give a damn about other people. As someone whose parents habitually watch Bill Maher's Club Random, same.

[Liz Goldwyn]

We need to start a support group.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm sure your parents let you know that Jane Fonda was recently on Club Random and spent the entire time just, like, confused about what was going on and what Bill Maher was saying. I feel like her redefining Woke was directly to Bill Maher and her experience of being on Club Random.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah, she's such a real one. Like, this woman didn't have to spend her 80s protesting climate change and police violence and getting arrested, but she does. She's always showed up for the people. She's just such an incredible woman. And when you watch the clips of, like, all of those movies, because they, of course show the montage of her career, you just forget the scope of her body of work and how brilliant she is and how progressive. A lot of the films that she starred in were also like, when I was watching the clips of they Shoot Horses, Don't They? I was like, at what point in this dystopian economy do we just start doing those dance marathons again?

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, you mean in 2025? Yeah, we're definitely going to be doing that in time for the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics. It'll be an Olympic sport by then. Well, her speech was also a call to action as well. Have any of you ever watched a documentary of one of the great social movements like apartheid or our civil rights movement or Stonewall, and asked yourself, would you have been brave enough to walk the bridge? Would you have been able to take.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The hoses and the batons and the dogs?

[Lauren Garoni]

We don't have to wonder anymore, because we are in our documentary moment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This is it.

[Lauren Garoni]

When she was saying that of, like, would you be brave enough? In my head, I was like, no. And then she was like, this moment is now. And I was like, oh, okay, I gotta get brave enough. Jade is telling me, yeah.

[Liz Goldwyn]

And it makes sense that she would use this event to wake up the people in that room, because this is a room full of famous people that have an enormous influence. People that have just as much influence as she does, that all have platforms. And of course, as the activist that she is, she's such a good communicator. Of course she wants to implore people to resist. That is her legacy.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Her legacy can't be influencing Chelsea Handler to be a philanthropist and an activist. We need other people, Elle Fanning, we need you to resist.

[Liz Goldwyn]

We love her. We love Jane. Although I think Armani did her dirty with that gown. The little squiggle lace appliques reminded me of leeches. It reminded me of that one part in Little House on a Prairie that's, like, so traumatic. Did you never read those books?

[Lauren Garoni]

Is it messed up that I was like, what episode of Little House on the Prairie was that what happened with the leeches? Chell. And how did the Armani prive remind you of this?

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, have you seen a leech?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, it looked like Jane Fonda's gown. That's what I'm saying. It's a squiggly, fat, little black thing that lays on your skin and sucks out all your blood.

[Lauren Garoni]

How dare you? The artisans at Armani spend hundreds of hours sewing those leeches in.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I think they could have done less. That's all I'm saying. No shade to Jane, but was a little distracted by the dress.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, before we move on, I need to get your opinion on, I think, the other greatest bit of the SAG Awards, which was the Law and Order clip package, which, frankly, they could make a yearly tradition.

[Liz Goldwyn]

They should.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think they really. And sorry for this gross phrase, but, like, blew their load because you could do this bid every year and figure out who of the people who have been nominated that year have been in Law and Order.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Everyone's been on Law and Order. Some people have been on Law and Order multiple times. Yeah, like Hayden Panettiere.

[Lauren Garoni]

Was it Tony Hale who didn't remember that he had been on twice. What a life that you could be on Law and Order as a guest star so many times you've forgotten.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Friend of the pod, Emma Miles. She was on three times. She played a woman that pretended to have a baby so she could shoplift cough syrup to make meth.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ooh.

[Liz Goldwyn]

She played some sort of white supremacist woman. And then she played a woman that got gang raped by a biker gang. And that was over the span of a decade.

[Lauren Garoni]

If I were ever on Law and Order, which I won't, I would want to be the first person that the detectives interact with that tell them to go to the person that tells them to go to the person that actually did the crime. I want to be that person who's third removed from the crime.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Sometimes that person actually ends up being the criminal, though. Ooh, just saying.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm not talented enough for that. So we have missed a few weeks of award shows. This is our Olympics, frankly. And it's as of Sunday, going to come to an end. So where do we stand going into the Oscars? Zoe Saldana and Kieran Culkin have swept all the major awards in their respective categories. Pretty likely they are going to win Best Supporting Actress and Best Supporting Actor. You've just let out a very heavy sigh.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, it's just predictable, like, of course they deserve it, but I would really like to see the Nora guy just randomly win an Oscar.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think he won the Indie Spirit Award. That's where Mikey Madison won Best Actress as well.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah, I'm sick of this Honora erasure.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, it's interesting that you say that because Demi Moore has won every award in her category. Although Mikey Madison did take the Best Actress award at the Independent Spirit Awards. So could there be an Oscar upset.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Like a Glenn Close situation?

[Lauren Garoni]

I was just gonna say Glenn Close won the Golden Globe, SAG and Spirit Award, but lost the Oscar to Olivia Colman. I mean, if this happens to Demi Moore, I think she has to have a substance esque breakdown in the mirror in the bathroom at the. At the Dolby Theater.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I was about to say she should vomit blood all over the entire audience.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ooh, that's better. But Honora did sweep the pga, WGA and DGA Awards, which is usually an indicator of what will win Best Picture, because the only movie to win all of those awards but lose Best Picture at the Oscar was Brokeback Mountain, which lost to the movie Crash. Chelsea, do with that what you will for your Oscar pool this weekend. So Timmy did win at the SAG.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Timmy did win at the SAG. What are you, 80 years old?

[Lauren Garoni]

All right, you're having a hard week, so I'll let you bully me. Timothy Chalamet won Best Actor at the SAG Awards over the front runner, Adrien Brody. Does that mean we will have an Oscar upset? I know how you're going to vote with your Oscar ballot this weekend.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah. But I did love Adrien Brody so.

[Lauren Garoni]

Much, and he did do the most acting in the Brutalist.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I think Brutalist should win Best Picture personally.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right.

[Liz Goldwyn]

But maybe Conclave. Not to be like a conspiracy theorist, but don't you think it's a little shocking that the Pope is having this health crisis at the peak of the Conclave awards circuit? Like, is this the best or the worst? Pr? I can't figure it out.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think the marketing department at Fox Searchlight deserves a raise. I also want to bring up there are award shows that are a bit more of a meritocracy, but the Oscars often make no sense. And you really understand that this week, because this is when the Hollywood Reporter and Variety start posting those anonymous Oscar ballots where people who are in the Academy and have voted anonymously explain how they voted and why. And Variety, in their feature, noted that two separate Oscar voters said that they did not vote for Ralph Fiennes for his performance in Conclave because he had already won an Oscar for his performance in Schindler's List. Fair enough. Except he didn't win an Oscar for.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Schindler's List, who won that Oscar.

[Lauren Garoni]

He lost Best Supporting Actor to Tommy Lee Jones in the Fugitive.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Okay, fair enough.

[Lauren Garoni]

But I love that they're like, look, we voted for Adrien Brody because Ralph Fiennes has already won an Oscar. And it's like, no, he hasn't, but Adrien Brody has. And Chelsea, if there is an upset and Timmy did win, he would be the youngest actor to win Best Actor Oscar, usurping Adrien Brody, who has been the youngest Best actor winner.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Wow. Well, I'm rooting for Timmy. Although so many great performances, they're all very deserving.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, Chelsea, are you rooting for Carla Sofia Gascon? Because Variety reported that she will be attending the Oscars and Netflix will be paying for her expenses to travel there.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Fair enough. She's nominated. How many problematic people have been nominated for Oscars?

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, look at Harvey Weinstein. The last time he was at the Academy Awards, he was sat next to Anna Wintour.

[Liz Goldwyn]

So let her have her moment.

[Lauren Garoni]

And then, Chelsea, since we last recorded, I'm very excited to tell you it has been widely reported that the Oscars will open with a Wicked medley performed by Cynthia Rivo and Ariana Grande.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Beautiful.

[Lauren Garoni]

That I'm sure the host, Conan O'Brien will crash into and end abruptly.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Oh, God. Is he going to be the Ethan Slater character?

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, maybe.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Or is he going to be the Bear Midwife or the goat Professor?

[Lauren Garoni]

I erased from my memory the Bear Midwife. God damn it, Chelsea. Also, it's been reported this week that for some reason, Doja, Cat, Lisa of Blackpink, and Rey will all be performing a song at the Academy Awards together.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Is that like In Memoriam, though? Because that could be a weird vibe.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Because they're not having singers sing the best original songs. So, yeah, I guess the only other song opportunities. In Memoriam. Oh, I love that.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Someone made the executive decision that the songs this year are all flops and we simply can't devote this much time to them. But what we actually need them to bring back is the fashion show of the costume design nominees.

[Lauren Garoni]

If you want to do a produced piece, you want to get a younger generation to watch. Have Kendall Jenner and Bella Hadid model the costumes.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Imagine, like the Conclave section. It will literally be like that Fellini movie.

[Lauren Garoni]

There's always next year. Another thing that came out while we were discussing other things was the fact that brutalist writer director Brady Courbet has made $0 from his film.

[Liz Goldwyn]

This is obviously a blatant lie because he made money from directing the film, but then he also had to do all this promotional stuff that he wasn't paid for. So he spent the money that he made from directing the film and now has $0, which is just what having a job is for most people. Seriously.

[Lauren Garoni]

Sorry, Brady. Get used to it.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It's not that he wasn't paid. It's that he has no money left over.

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay. He was on the Marc Maron podcast and he was explaining that he had just gotten his first real paycheck in many years from directing three ads in Portugal. Brady Courbet said, both my partner and I made zero dollars on the last two movies we made. Yes, actually zero. So we had to just live off a paycheck from three years ago. And obviously the timing during an awards campaign and travel Every two or three days was less than ideal, but it was an opportunity that landed in my lap and I jumped at him. Was he paid for the Brutalist? I'm sure he was. Did he potentially forfeit his director's fee to put it back in the budget so that he could afford some amazing Brutalist architecture or production design?

[Liz Goldwyn]

That sounds just like the plot of the Brutalist.

[Lauren Garoni]

I related deeply to this because I, too, made an independent feature last year. Not as lauded as the Brutalist, shockingly enough, but I will be transparent. Do you know how much money I made while making my directorial debut?

[Liz Goldwyn]

How much?

[Lauren Garoni]

$0. Because I gave my fee. My co writer, Bri Essrig, we gave our fees back to the production budget so that we could pay other people a better rate and also, like, get the clothing we wanted in the movie.

[Liz Goldwyn]

So you spent the money, is what.

[Lauren Garoni]

You'Re saying the money was spent elsewhere? Yes, yes. I think when he says he made $0, he either forfeited his paycheck or perhaps, yes, made the film years ago and has not worked since because he's been dedicated to. Right. When you make a movie, it is not just production, it is post production. And as he says, because the film premiered, I believe it can. Or Venice. He has been promoting the movie for nearly a year, and you do not get paid for that.

[Liz Goldwyn]

They're flying him business class, though.

[Lauren Garoni]

I was going to add that asterisk of like, yeah, yeah, you're not getting paid day by day, but you are, per your guild, getting paid business class.

[Liz Goldwyn]

A per diem.

[Lauren Garoni]

You're getting a per diem. Your hotel stay in a fabulous European country is being paid for your transportation. So you're not getting a salary to promote your film, but you're also not having to pay pay to do this either.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Look, I think it's good that he's talking about this, because I think the public has all kinds of misconceptions about how much people in the entertainment industry make. And of course, there is a huge spectrum. Most directors aren't raking in Michael Bay money.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, some of us have to subsidize our hobby of writing and directing with the shockingly lucrative career of podcasting. That was Brady Courbet's problem. He's too dedicated making brilliant movies. He's not hosting a podcast.

[Liz Goldwyn]

He needs to get on the mic.

[Lauren Garoni]

You know who is making money? Chell? Our fave, Lena Dunham. Guys, I'm always sending Chelsea stories in our chat together, and I never know what will resonate. So I was thrilled that when I sent you that Lena Dunham is working on a new movie with Natalie Portman that this really resonated with you. So she's written a rom com.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It's called Good Sex.

[Lauren Garoni]

This is the synopsis. After spending a decade in a failed relationship, successful couples therapist Ally, played by Natalie Portman, or will be played by Natalie portman, is turning 40 and is pushed kicking and screaming by her best friend back into the hopeless New York dating scene. But Ally finds her life pulled in opposing directions as she falls into a steamy fling with a 20 something year old Brooklyn hipster. Are we still using the phrase hipster? Sorry. Just as she begins a promising, more conventional relationship with Alan, a successful 50 something in Manhattan. As a romantic crossroads blossoms into a full blown identity crisis, Ally juggles to keep these two very different men separate and to make sense of her own conflicting desires before she risks losing them both. Love it. Great.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Can't wait to watch this. Also, we need Natalie Portman in a better rom com than no Strings Attached.

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely.

[Liz Goldwyn]

We as millennials deserve our own millennial Nora Ephron. And I think that is a great lane for Lena Dunham to be in. There were always rom com elements of Girls and she was always good at sort of subverting some of those rom com tropes on that show. So it makes sense that she would evolve into the sort of person that would be writing these kinds of movies. No one's writing good ones.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, I agree with you. And you know who else agrees? Hollywood Chelsea, because this is an independent feature quite like Brady Courbet's the Brutalist. They've attached Ali Portman and they brought it to buyers at the European film market. And this package has sparked a bidding war between Warner Brothers, Amazon, Apple and Netflix, who all want to make this movie. And the offers could be $45 million to be able to have the privilege to make and distribute Elena Dunham rom com.

[Liz Goldwyn]

That's so insane.

[Lauren Garoni]

As of the time of recording, there's been no other update. But as we're becoming women of a certain age ourselves, I'm glad that the rom com genre is being reawakened.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Same. Of all the genres, it is the most lacking in quality. Like the fact that we have incredibly highbr smart contemporary horror movies now and people still don't know how to make a romantic comedy is crazy to me.

[Lauren Garoni]

However, I do feel like after this movie, no more movies where a 40 year old woman has sex with a younger guy. We, we have enough. We have the Anne Hathaway One we've got Baby Girl. There's the Greg Araki film with Olivia Wilde and Cooper Hoffman. We're gonna get this one. We're good. Figure out a new genre of man or woman for an elder millennial to have sex with.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, very excited about this. Glad something good is happening in the world.

[Lauren Garoni]

And yes, we do need this. We have been on record. We are Lena Dunham apologists. Maybe our most problematic trait.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Who's to say it's up there?

[Lauren Garoni]

So today we have something very special for you guys. We have a truly fabulous gu. She is an author, a filmmaker, a sexpert and a fashion icon. Thank you for joining us. Liz Goldwyn.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so grateful to be here.

[Liz Goldwyn]

We are so happy to have you and I'm obsessed with your sub stack. We have lots to talk about, but I wanted to start with the fact that I think of you as the quintessential LA woman. So I was shocked to learn that you have moved to Hawaii. You just had a massive closet sale. You got rid of a ton of your clothes. I just wanted to hear more about this huge life decision that you've made and also what the process of editing your wardrobe was like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Girl, I'm still, I have a climate controlled storage space still in la.

[Lauren Garoni]

See, that was going to be my follow up question.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Cuz I read that it's an addiction. It's a real problem. Like I was, I have every love letter saved from when I was like 12. I'm sorry. So sentimental. And I feel the same way about clothing. Like I have a size nine and a half foot, right? I have size five cowboy, like Stuart Weitzman 1970s suede embroidered cowboy boots. Like why? I don't know. Because they're so beautiful and like I will only. I have 13 nieces and nephews. I will only let my nieces like try them on, on carpeted floor and not leave. You know, it's like I don't even know what I'm saving all this stuff for. I just find it all so precious, it's hard to edit. I'm actually going there on Monday to do another sweep to do another sale.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Oh wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, this spring. So if you missed out on the first time around, stay tuned because another one's happening. I moved to Hawaii in, in 2020. My company, the Sex Ed, was already a digital platform, so we were already pretty set up for Covid and our business increased like 300% during that time because we were, we had a podcast and we're talking about sex and all these things. Sexual wellness became such a much bigger category during that time. People were stuck at home. They were, you know, we were just speaking about only fans and porn before we started. People were jerking off more at home and they were also on journeys of self discovery right during this time. And I just felt really stuck. I felt stuck in LA for a long time. I felt I was in a relationship I felt really stuck in, you know, was CEO of a company and managing other people's mental health and I was struggling and I had been there once, literally once before with a boyfriend at the time. And I just felt very called from my heart to like, oh, if I can work from anywhere, I want to go there and I want to write a new book. Which I ended up doing. But it was, it was very. It was very much an intuitive decision. I think I realized that I had needed to make more decisions in my life from my heart and from my intuition and instead of from my head and you know, not listening to what everybody else thought was the right thing for me. Like you said, you associate me with la, but if you knew me like personally or as maybe you will come to know me. I am like the kind of person who's happy barefoot, like riding a bike, knowing small town gossip really like low key. Small town is more LA is like a small town too for me.

[Liz Goldwyn]

But no, I feel that I relate to that and I have hippie ish barefoot tendencies as well. So I get you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean I'm wearing some really nice Alessandro Michele for Gucci shoes right now.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Which.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I was gonna ask you.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Those are gorgeous.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But you know, if we were. But like on Monday I was barefoot and I had no red nail polish. So I do very. I go very extreme. It's like the second I come to la I need to get a mani pedi. I want to go to every single erewhon. You know.

[Lauren Garoni]

Have you tried the 19 strawberry yet?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, no, they have a strawberry this broke this past weekend. They are selling a strawberry for 19.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not a pack, just a single strawberry.

[Lauren Garoni]

Just a single giant juicy strawberry for 19.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I think that's ridiculous.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I hate that. So what percentage of the wardrobe remains? Like how much have you successfully paid?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Purged I the sale that I did that you're referring to and they still have some pieces at Arcade Vintage at the row is I sold about 500 pieces. I have thousands of. So I. But he's coming on Monday to do another edit of the wardrobe because I was like, I'm not sure. I don't know if I want to get rid of this, you know? And for years, dealers would always contact me wanting. And sometimes I would sell a few things here and there. But the problem is, like, I just got this Prada dress I'm wearing off the real wheel, like the other day. Like, it's a constant. It's a constant thing. Like you're just, oh. I'm like, no, that's it. And no more clothes, no more shoes.

[Lauren Garoni]

I have this philosophy as well where I keep thinking there's going to be a moment, almost this sartorial moment of enlightenment where I'm like, that's it. I've purchased all of the pieces. We are also real, real addicts. This top is from the real real.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, the second that you think you have everything that you need, there's a whole new look. Then it's like Alessandro comes in with his vision for Gucci and it makes it changes, like what you want to wear.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I actually am in the middle of a new style transformation. I've decided that my spring summer 2025 look is going to be more like classic preppy 70s, because I feel like I just dress a little too eccentric. So I've been trying to tone it down. So I got like a. I just ordered some things from J. Crew, you know, like a button down girl. What?

[Liz Goldwyn]

No, I like J. Crew.

[Lauren Garoni]

But we love J. Crew.

[Liz Goldwyn]

You are a J. Crew shopper.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just love J.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Crew.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God, I love J.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Crew.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They have great cashmere, like those little cute, like, cropped cashmere. I got a crop cashmere shell in leopard. Because leopard is a neutral. I got this like, button down, you know, blue shirt with like, red stripes, like a man's shirt. And that's part of my, like, I want to be like Lauren hutton in the 70s, don't we? That's my, like, spring, summer look.

[Lauren Garoni]

J. Crew is also the last place where you can get a shell and matching cardigan that has completely been removed off the face of the planet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's the chic chop look for me.

[Liz Goldwyn]

So true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I love. I love a sweater set.

[Liz Goldwyn]

So I want to talk about your sub stack Star Fucker. Great name, by the way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Thank you.

[Liz Goldwyn]

To give our listeners context, it's kind of like Carrie Bradshaw meets Kenneth Anger. You have a lot of gossip about the entertainment industry. And I wanted to talk about a few things that you've written about recently, including the fact that you auditioned for the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I was shocked. What possessed you to do this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, they came to me, actually, as I just wrote a piece called. Called Hitler and the Real Housewives, which, oh, we read. So, you know, it's funny, just before I came here, I took my sex ed team to lunch at the Grill on the Alley in Beverly Hills, which is one of my favorite LA power lunch spots. Shout out to Pamela, the maitre d, and I ran into Sutton Strack, who's a real housewife, and she was like, why aren't you doing it? They came to me a few years ago and said that they wanted me to be on. On the Housewives of Beverly Hills. And I said, well, I'm only interested if I could talk about dismantling the patriarchy and white supremacy. And they just went really quiet and said, america's not ready for this. And then they came back again and I said the same thing and they started laughing. Oh, my God, the network would love this. The reason why I did it is because, to be perfectly honest, since you read the piece I wrote, I'm. I'm very much thinking about where we are in the world and in this country and propaganda and how propaganda has been used by people that maybe I don't agree with who are in positions of power in this country. And reality TV seems to be like today's ultimate propaganda. So I think I was, like, in my own head, ideologically thinking of, like, how could I spin this medium? You know, how could I make a Warholian exercise out of appearing on the Real Housewives? Could I subvert the medium and, like, you know, talk about reproductive rights and that climate change and things I care about? So I kind of did the audition for the plot. I told them straight up, I don't live in la. I'm not interested to move to LA for three months. I'm not your. You know, I have. No, I would never let you film my private life in that way. They were like, well, even if you're a friend or you're a guest, you still have to do the audition. So I did the audition and honestly, it was like psychological warfare. Like, you could really see how. Have you seen that show? That fictionalized version of like. Like a bachelorette show, I think it's called. Unreal.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I felt like that. Like, I felt like I was on the other end of the producer character on that. I think it's Shiri Appleby, I think, plays the producer on it.

[Lauren Garoni]

She does, yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's you. Really. She's great actress. I really felt like growth after. I felt like, even though I know better. I found myself feeling so easily manipulated by the questions. And I could really see that it's impossible, or at least for me, for someone who grew up in a movie business family. And I'm a director too. Like, I. I'm such a control freak. And I think it would be very hard to spin that unless you're behind the camera making that show. But I did it because I wanted to have the experience of like, well, could this be a possibility? Could I, could I come on there and like, have a different take? Probably not. Although, as I said, I just ran into Sutton and she brought it up again, like, to please come on as a friend of. So we'll see what happens.

[Lauren Garoni]

Perhaps you could come, come in next season and do a sex ed seminar for all the women.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was my pitch, is that I wanted to come on and do like kind of like a sex dinner party. And of course they would probably make me look really stupid. But I mean, we'll see.

[Lauren Garoni]

So if you can believe it, looking at her, Chelsea is a huge Taylor Swift fan.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay.

[Lauren Garoni]

You wrote a great series about your childhood home, by the way. Our goal is to have our listeners, who we call fuckettes, subscribe to your amazing substack.

[Liz Goldwyn]

So to get all of the goss.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. So apologies making you reveal stuff that is hidden behind a paywall, but we have a. We have a greater goal. Obviously. You have this unique connection to Taylor Swift through the purchase of your childhood home, which I'm sure is quite bizarre. I guess there's no good way to ask this, but are you a fan of her music by chance?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I've never really. I mean, obviously I know the songs that you've heard, like when you're out and about, but to be honest, it's just. I'm like, I'm like a hardcore hip hop head is, you know, more my speed, you know, so it's not necessarily what I would turn on, but I'm obviously like, familiar. I have a lot of respect for her as an artist and a business person. And also I really respect that she's gotten my family house, which my grandparents built and my dad grew up in, and I grew up in designated historical property and like, has restored it and that, you know, means a lot to me.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Are you aware of the fact that she has written songs about her houses before? Like, I feel like there could be one on the horizon about your childhood home.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I. There's a wicked Wikipedia page devoted to like the Goldwyn Swift estate, which I only discovered when I was writing that piece. And because honestly, for a lot, for a while, like, my dad's. My grief over his death was too fresh and I really couldn't, you know, handle it. And she wanted to talk a lot about it, too, when we met. And I just. I wasn't even. I wasn't ready for that. But I read the Wikipedia page, and it says that she's recorded some of the albums in that house. Like, she's built a recording studio. And so maybe she already has written about the house.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It must be bizarre to be kind of tethered to a big pop star in this sort of very unique way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know, you might see it as bizarre, but I feel like when. Because I've grown up in all of this, like, I could probably tell you other stories that, like, I would find more bizarre, you know, than that. Yeah, I don't know. I guess so. I guess because I'm not that well.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Versed in the lore, and that's totally fine. I wouldn't think that you would be. You seem far too cool for that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I mean, I do love, like. I mean, God, I was like, obsessed with Madonna. Right? She's like, of course. Well, it's like the Madonna of. Well, she's more. She's more conservative, Right?

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah. I wouldn't say she's a lot like Madonna.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, just in the level of global superstardom. And yeah, of course.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I feel like she's almost even more famous than Madonna now, which is crazy. I feel like she's all that, like, Michael Jackson level, which is nuts. Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Off mic, Chelsea can give you a whole primer on Taylor Swift if you would like.

[Liz Goldwyn]

You do not need it. You do not need it. But if you do like rap music, the Reputation album might have something for you. The Bad Blood remix with Kendrick Lamar.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do know that she. I'm a big Kendrick fan. I do know that she did that. I do know she did a song with him.

[Liz Goldwyn]

We're still shocked that Kendrick did that, but it did happen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also try to be really, like, respectful because, again, privacy, obviously not at all to, like, the level that she deals with. But, like, from the second I was born, you know, our house was on the maps of Hollywood stars homes. When we were little. My dad would be like, don't pick up packages left outside. He would. You know, people would be writing him from death row. I've had stalkers since I was a young woman, which was really scary. And then became even more so once I started professionally writing and talking about sex. So I can't Even imagine what it's like, you know, to be a female celebrity on that level. I think also that's what's always scared me about fame and interested me about other people from the outside looking at and being like, I want to be famous. Because I was always brought up to be so cognizant of, like, fame equals people digging through your trash. Fame equals men wanting to kill you. You know, this is real. This is real, real life that people don't think about. You know, you do hear about someone, you know, oh, someone got arrested trying to break into her house or whatever. But, you know, it's very scary being on the inside of that, you know, and, like, not being able to have normalcy in your life. Like, I can't even imagine that.

[Liz Goldwyn]

And I'm so sorry for what you've experienced. That's terrifying. And I can't imagine what Taylor goes through. I mean, we know she's gone through a lot. And I do want to clarify for the listeners that your piece was much more about your family and grief and the significance of this home to you than about Taylor specifically. But as someone that has always followed you and her, I found it to be fascinating.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Thank you. Yeah. And it was interesting to write about it because it's like a six or seven part series, and I think in the last one, I'm talking about us meeting on Oscar night, like a year after my dad died, and just going back and actually researching a bit of her career. When I was writing it, I realized, like, I was going through my grief, but she was going through that court case at the time where she was suing the guy for harassment for a dollar. And. And that was. I was also writing about Hollywood at that time, and it was like, me, too. Time's up. So it was really interesting to think about my path and what I was dealing with and observing at the same time is thinking about what she was navigating as a woman in the entertainment industry. So it gave me, like, a whole new, you know, perspective on. On her. And also the way that, like, my grandparents would entertain or my parents would entertain back in the day and, like, the kind of parties she's, I'm sure, having at that house, you know, privately, for sure.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I hope she's having fabulous ragers with lots of crazy crystal sherry glasses and whatnot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sure she is.

[Lauren Garoni]

So you've mentioned in your DMs to us that you have Sarah Jessica Parker stories. Will you spill them now that we have you on the podcast?

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. So I Met her through my brother Tony Goldwyn, who's an actor and director. And you might have to Google it. I feel like they worked together. I think they worked together. I don't know how they were first friends, but we met in the. When I was going to art school in New York when I was like, 17.

[Lauren Garoni]

You went to SVA?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I went to SVA and I worked at Sotheby's auction house. I helped start the fashion department, which was, like, really fun and interesting. And she. I met her. We went out one night. That's the first time I met her. We went out one night with my brother. And it was really funny because my brother is like. I have never had a friend, like, gay or straight that has not had a crush on my brother since. He's. He's my half brother. He's 17 years older. So the. From the time I was like a little kid, it was annoying because everyone, oh, my God, your brother's so hot. And I'm like, hello, we have the same genes. Why aren't your brother's so nice? Like, nobody ever was saying that about me. Like, what my. An ugly. No, I'm just kidding. But anyways, I digress. So we go out with my brother, you know, gets this attention, but he literally, you would think he's like a naive hick from like, nowheres Ville. He's just so. He is genuinely like a nice guy. Doesn't know who anyone is, doesn't know anything about pop culture at all. Like, one time we were somewhere and we were sitting next to Mary J. Blige, who was fanning out over him. He had no idea who she was. I was like, oh, my God, can I please get a photo? So we were out with Sarah Jessica sometime in the 90s in New York, and we went to the Bowery Bar. And Tyra. Do you remember Tyra Banks? Like, you know, that was. Yeah, obviously Tyra Banks was like, in her hate. I don't think she had. I think she was like, still modeling. It wasn't like America's Next Top Model days yet. Maybe I don't remember. But she wanted to meet him. And me and Sarah Jessica were freaking out because we're both really into fashion. And Tony was like, oh, my God, you have to meet her. She's so cool. We want to meet her. And he was just like, oh, like a little dumb, dumb. Didn't know who she was and know who any models were. So we kind of bonded over that. And then she wanted to buy her first Hermes bag and okay, this is.

[Lauren Garoni]

Piping hot for our audience.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is it? I mean, Sarah Jessica. I know. You know, I'm not spilling any personal tea. This is, like, a long time ago.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, no, we just. Because we started as a Sex of the City Instagram, we've charted the irony of Samantha wanting a Birkin in that infamous episode with Lucy Liu. And then to hide Sarah DeSicca's pregnancy. The next season, suddenly Carrie has a gigantic Birkin because that was kind of the only. The biggest bag that could cover her baby bump.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I think she wanted a Kelly bag. This must have been. I was working for Sotheby's probably like, 99, 1999 maybe. And she wanted a Kelly bag, and she wanted a vintage Kelly bag. And so she came to me at Sotheby's because she wanted help to buy one. And I was always, like, the conduit for, like, Hollywood, you know, back then. Also Demi too, who has an amazing collection. Also, I knew through my brother because they starred in Ghosts together. So, you know, a lot of these, like, great, amazing women I met through my. My big brother, which was. Which was great. So that was fun that I got to help her buy her first Kelly bag, and she was so excited. What year did Sex and the city start?

[Liz Goldwyn]

98.

[Chelsea Fairless]

98. So it was really. Yeah, so this was like 98 or 99. So this is, like, right at the beginning. And to be honest, I didn't watch the show until, like, much later. And I don't know, like, you guys know better. Was it an instant success? Was it, like, huge right at the beginning?

[Liz Goldwyn]

It definitely made a mark. I think it got. It was huge by the end. I think it definitely made a splash in the beginning. And the Vogue covers and the press and all of that, I think came around the middle of the show.

[Lauren Garoni]

The third season. Yeah, I was gonna say third or fourth season. I think it had reached the masses.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

So while we have you here, can we talk about some recent fashion news? Okay, first, I think we should get into Sabatto Dosorno has left Gucci after two years. His successor is yet to be named. What do we think about this? Obviously, you're repping Alessandro Michele Gucci.

[Liz Goldwyn]

You've interviewed him and Gucci sponsored your podcast?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They did. And I'm carrying a Valentino bag that Alessandro sent me because he's now at Valentino. I love Alessandro, and I also love Tom Ford, who was at Gucci back in the day. To me, honestly, it's like non news him leaving. I feel like it's. Designers are Treated like chess pieces. And it's just gotten worse and worse and worse. There was. It was so, you know, great back in the day when you had, like, Galliano a Dior, doing Dior couture and Gaultier, and it was. It was so exciting and people had a chance to grow at a brand. But two years is not enough time. You know, it's all about the bottom line. I don't think that's enough time. Time to, like, foster a vision. I mean, I'm, you know, I'm an Alessandro supporter, so I don't know who's going to go in at Gucci, but it's got to be someone that's going to be commercial.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah, but it didn't work for them last time. I think this ultimately shows that, like, there are downsides to greed. Right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, they think there are.

[Liz Goldwyn]

There are commercial downsides. There are certainly creative down downsides. They wanted exponential growth with Gucci. They got that from Alessandro. But you can't sustain that indefinitely.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I think we're entering into an interesting time in, like, the luxury fashion market. And, you know, that's why someone like, you know, Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen with the row, such an interesting business because they're kind of, you know, consistent. They don't operate by the. Always by the traditional calendar. I think. I think it's really hard because the bottom line for companies like Kering and lvmh, which are the two main groups which own a lot of the, you know, brands, everything from Balenciaga to Stella McCartney to McQueen to Yves Laurent on down, is that it's literally, it's about selling handbags and perfume. You know, it's not. It's not really about what you see on the Runway, because I don't know about you, but, like, I would never spend that much money on. I think it's crazy. Like, I've always been into vintage. I'll buy like a Prada shoe over, like, buying a Prada dress. Even though I would love to buy, you know, a brand new Prada dress, I could never justify the kind of money that that costs. I just think it's like, of course.

[Liz Goldwyn]

That'S what the real real is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, let's put it into. Let's put it into real estate, let's put it into art, let's put it into things. But also, you know, working at Sotheby's gave me an idea of, like, what clothing has resale value and what doesn't. And. And so that's. That's another thing when it comes to like hiring a designer who'll be at a house. Like, what. Who's going to make the collections that are going to have retain their value, like down the line, like an Hermes Kelly bag does.

[Lauren Garoni]

This is true. I mean, we talk about this on the podcast as well. I often make this point that they are looking for designers who can make the next IT bag, because that's really where the profit center is.

[Liz Goldwyn]

But Alessandro sort of made it sneakers, IT bags, IT belts. Like, almost sort of every single accessories category. Like, there is just instantly like a huge boom in sales. I mean, still today, walking around la, you see so much of that stuff on street.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I still wear a lot of. I mean, I love his stuff.

[Lauren Garoni]

I've made this point on the podcast before that I feel like what's going on in the fashion industry is very similar to what's going on in the film industry is everyone is so risky averse. I feel like a lot of these conglomerates, whether it is in the entertainment sphere or the fashion sphere, are like, well, we're gonna let the audience tell us what we should be making. And it's like, no, you need an eccentric taste maker. Like, people don't know what they want. That's why you need someone with an extreme point of view to tell people what they want.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It's true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Okay. I also need to hear your thoughts about the new partnership between Nike and skim. They have started a new brand called what else? Nike Skims. A kind of insane partnership for both parties. What do we all think? Are you a Kardashian person at all, Liz? I'm guessing no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Actually, I worked with Kendall. I directed this love meditation that, like, back in. It was a long time ago. It might have been 2015.

[Liz Goldwyn]

2013.

[Chelsea Fairless]

2015. And she was great, really professional. I have, like, such a fascination with Kylie.

[Liz Goldwyn]

She.

[Chelsea Fairless]

When I was doing book tour for my. For Sporting Guide, my second book, I literally spent like 10 minutes of my AOL build talking about her Snapchats and, like, how she has a yogurt machine at home and which is weird because the book is set in 1890s Los Angeles in the world of vice and prostitution. So it has, like, nothing to do. I don't know, I just have this, like, fascination with, like, Stormy's first birthday party and how she got that Chanel bag. I wrote a column for Poosh, like a sex advice column for Courtney's company, Poosh. And she and my brother, another brother, younger brother, went to school together. So that said, I own some skims underwear. I bought like one thing from the Dolce collab they did, I bought like a little leopard like baby doll. Cuz it, I do like that. I mean I don't want to like publicly wear Dolce anymore and support them. But like, who doesn't Love Some like 90s Dolce References? Leopard print and a leopard print.

[Liz Goldwyn]

No judgment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I think I'm going to sell it that piece because I've never worn it, you know, so I feel the same way about the Nike Skims class is like sort of like for me it's like, who cares? It's just going to end up in a landfill.

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't know.

[Liz Goldwyn]

To me it makes a lot of sense because it like it kind of benefits both parties, Right. Because Skims is not going to have this sort of technological innovation in the production capabilities of Nike when it comes to like leggings and sneakers and stuff like that. So it makes sense for their, their.

[Lauren Garoni]

Nipple bra and butt padding notwithstanding.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yeah. But also Skims has done some stuff that is quite innovative. Like the nipple stuff. Like some of the shapewear.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm wearing a nude skims bra right now. Yes. Like, you know, they do make.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I'm wearing skims right now too.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Liz Goldwyn]

How about you, Lauren?

[Lauren Garoni]

I think I'm wearing bra as well. Yeah, it's a good, yeah. Product.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a good product. And I would like not buy Victoria's Secret, for example. And I, I spend a lot of money on lingerie. Like I love match, like really good matching lingerie. But the thing is all that like beautiful colors and lace, it doesn't look right under certain outfits because you can see through it. Nothing pissed me off so much as when, when I'm watching movies and like, okay, what's the movie? Fifty Shades of Gray. Okay, this pissed me off. So I hate the continuity in the costume department in movies when they like just get something that's so obviously wrong with fashion. Like in one scene in the first 50 shades of gray, she's trying on this like long line merry widow lace up corset. Right. And then the next scene she's supposed to have put on this like floor length silk satin bias cut dress over it. And I'm like, ugh. There's no. She would not be wearing a corset under a slip bias cut dread because you would see every line on it. It drives me crazy. So Kim Kardashian, to her credit, understands this. You know that like sometimes you need a really good seamless product.

[Liz Goldwyn]

I love that. This is Your criticism of 50 Shades.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of Gray my brother Tony made this movie with. It was like Diane Lane's comeback and actually Viggo Mortensen and Liev Schreiber years ago. It was called A Walk on the Moon.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, I've seen that movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I. He was like, what did you think? And I was like, well, you know in the love scene between Diane and Viggo where he's like unbuttoning her blouse in the car, she's wearing this like blue synthetic lace button up shirt. And that kind of lace wasn't invented in the year in which this. He was like, only you are going to notice that. I'm like, but it's so obvious this lace is synthetic.

[Lauren Garoni]

Chelsea would also appreciate that you are someone who asked for your money back after seeing Atomic Blonde because you felt that the costumes and the production design were not period accurate to the 80s.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Well, you have to give the arclight a reason when you're asking for a ticket refund. So I figured that was as good as any rip. Arclight.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait. Oh, arclight's gone.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Did I not know that?

[Liz Goldwyn]

Oh, I'm sorry to be the one.

[Lauren Garoni]

To the bearer of bad news.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, that's so sad.

[Liz Goldwyn]

It's gone.

[Lauren Garoni]

So wrapping things up. The Met Gala is coming up and as someone who has gone when it was still, as you said in your substack gate, kept thoughts on how the Met Gala has changed thought thoughts on this year's theme.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean I think this year will be very interesting because who knows where we will be at in May. Just what was like DEI initiatives and the theme of this year's gala, I think my. It has the potential for being either really charged in a political sense or people being really afraid of being canceled. I think it's long overdue to highlight blacks style. God, the stories I could tell on that subject in terms of the fashion business. But that's for another podcast. Maybe that's for your highest tier Payball. Yeah. Yeah. I do have a lot of stories of Conde Nast and internalized racism, but especially when it comes to to fashion. So I think it's really interesting that we're only coming around to this, this subject and highlighting black style now, especially since for example like Jackie, Jackie O, who's heralded as a beacon of American style. Jacqueline Low was her dress designer, who was a black designer. And Low and Low. Sorry. Yeah, I think it will be. I'll be curious to see because also some of the hosts too have very strong political opinions too.

[Lauren Garoni]

And now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And so did Anna. So I'll be very curious about how all of that plays out against the lens of how do we use fashion or art to reflect the times we're in? And is it just going to go into a space of, like, apathy and commercialism and, you know, advertising for brands? Are we going to use this moment? Are people going to use this moment as a way to, you know, express themselves through. Through clothing that will reach so many people? Because you can reach so many people through.

[Lauren Garoni]

Through.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Through fashion.

[Liz Goldwyn]

See, when you said, I don't know where we'll be in May, my head instantly went to, like, Trump firing Andrew Bolton and making himself the, like, the head of Costume Institute.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, I. I always am careful because I never know what anyone's political leanings are. But, yeah, I think. I mean, I. I think that's a real. That's a real thing. You know, I think also the same thing, like the word around town. We're recording this during Oscar week. You know, it's just a very strange time right now in the arts and in arts that have traditionally been more outspoken and liberal, especially in his first term in office. It was in fashion, too. And we're in a really different place now. People are afraid. They're really afraid to speak up. They're afraid of their bottom line. And it concerns me. It concerns me. And I think that, like, arts, fashion, music, filmmaking, theater, comedy, are like, the last bastion of resistance and revolution. And, like. So I personally hope that we see some of that, even though now it feels like it's much more risky for people as artists, as public personalities to do so, because they'll be targeted. But what are we gonna do? Are we just gonna let this become a fascist country? I don't know.

[Liz Goldwyn]

God, I hope not.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I. I hope not, too.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Trying to think of an optimistic note.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, let's end on a lighter note. Let's end on a lighter note.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Liz, thank you so much for being here today. Truly. We're so honored to have you on the pod.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you. I didn't mean to bring it down. I think that joy and fashion and lightness and happiness is something that we have to really cling to, lean into, you know, always. Because as Janis Joplin said, if you buy it today, you don't wear it tomorrow, because you gotta get it while you can.

[Lauren Garoni]

Guys, if you enjoyed this conversation, you can get so much more of Liz on her substack Star. We are each individually members, and it's the best purchase of the year, frankly, for myself.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Thank you, Liz. Hopefully you'll come back. Hopefully. You know, we can talk about the Met gala, perhaps.

[Liz Goldwyn]

Hopefully Liz will come back. We will definitely be back next week to talk about the Oscars. See you next week.

[Lauren Garoni]

All right. Bye, guys.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Bye.