212: On Lauren’s Pregnancy Shocker, Lady Gaga, Fashion Month (Feat. Patrik Sandberg)

Summary

Episode Summary: Every Outfit Podcast - Episode 212: On Lauren’s Pregnancy Shocker, Lady Gaga, Fashion Month (Feat. Patrick Sandberg)

Release Date: March 14, 2025

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1. Introduction and Special Announcement

The episode kicks off with hosts Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garone engaging in their signature witty banter about motorcycle insurance claims, setting a playful tone ([00:00]–[00:32]). The conversation swiftly shifts to a major personal announcement:

Lauren Garone reveals her pregnancy, leading to an animated discussion about the challenges of sharing the news and the logistics surrounding their upcoming tour dates ([01:07]–[09:18]). Lauren details her experience with a relatively smooth pregnancy, free from the dreaded morning sickness, and shares insights into their initial plans for a sponsored announcement that didn’t come to fruition ([03:16]–[04:59]).

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Garone at [04:25]: "I think what's happening is I've just decided to take a pregnancy test. It's giving. I didn't know I was pregnant."

2. Pregnancy Quiz Segment

Chelsea introduces a fun quiz titled "Duh Baby or Lil Baby" to assess Lauren's knowledge about popular baby-themed artists. The segment serves both as entertainment and a light-hearted way to lighten the mood around the pregnancy announcement ([06:41]–[08:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Fairless at [07:06]: "Which baby features on Dua Lipa's song Levitating?"
• Lauren Garone at [07:10]: "Da Baby."
• Chelsea Fairless at [08:25]: "You got three out of five. I'm no longer concerned for this baby's welfare."

3. Welcome to Special Guest: Patrick Sandberg

The hosts introduce Patrick Sandberg, a writer and creative director, highlighting his impressive background in fashion and pop culture ([11:36]–[12:09]). Patrick joins the conversation to delve into the episode's main topics, bringing his unique perspective to the table.

Notable Quote:

• Chelsea Fairless at [11:36]: "He is one of the most brilliant and twisted minds in all of Los Angeles."

4. Deep Dive: Lady Gaga’s "Mayhem" Album

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting Lady Gaga's latest album, "Mayhem." Patrick Sandberg offers an objective analysis, discussing how the album synthesizes Gaga's various musical eras and ventures into new sonic territories ([13:03]–[26:17]). The hosts share their admiration for Gaga's willingness to experiment while maintaining connections to her past works.

Key Points:

• Patrick Sandberg describes the album as a blend of Gaga’s previous styles with "Abracadabra" signaling a new direction ([13:14]–[13:31]).
• Lauren Garone shares her professional history with Lady Gaga, emphasizing her deep-rooted influence in the fashion magazine scene ([15:06]–[16:12]).
• The hosts and Patrick compare "Mayhem" to Taylor Swift’s musical style, noting Gaga’s confidence in embracing different genres and her technical vocal prowess ([22:25]–[24:16]).

Notable Quotes:

• Patrick Sandberg at [13:14]: "This album as an outsider seems like a synthesis of all of her musical eras."
• Lauren Garone at [16:12]: "I was still at V when Artpop happened and I helped throw the art rave."

5. Critique of Meghan Markle’s Netflix Show

The conversation shifts to Meghan Markle’s Netflix series, "With Love, Megan." The hosts express their disappointment and critique the show's portrayal of an affluent lifestyle, deeming it toothless and disconnected from reality ([26:26]–[35:53]).

Key Points:

• Lauren Garone criticizes the show for lacking authenticity and being overly sanitized despite Markle's affluent background ([28:38]–[30:15]).
• Patrick Sandberg discusses the show's attempt to define an "aspirational lifestyle" and its failure to resonate with a broader audience ([27:10]–[28:08]).

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Fairless at [30:40]: "Shapes the way that you do with success."

6. Fashion Month Highlights

The trio transitions into an extensive discussion on the latest happenings in Fashion Month, covering major designers and notable collections:

a. Calvin Klein’s Debut with Veronica Leone

• Lauren Garone and Patrick Sandberg analyze Veronica Leone's minimalist and contemporary approach, debating its reception and longevity in the market ([39:32]–[42:57]).

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Garone at [40:21]: "What is the intention? Who is the customer?"

b. Heider Ackerman for Tom Ford

• Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garone express their admiration for Heider Ackerman’s seamless transition into Tom Ford’s design legacy, praising the collection for elevating the brand’s aesthetic ([43:54]–[45:39]).

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Garone at [44:37]: "She has been such an incredible, dependable designer."

c. Dries Van Noten’s Collection

• Patrick Sandberg and Lauren Garone critique Dries Van Noten’s latest collection, noting a departure from the brand’s traditional aesthetic and expressing skepticism about the new direction ([46:10]–[52:09]).

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Garone at [50:57]: "I felt a little bit assaulted by it when I saw it."

7. The Return of Fur in Fashion

A heated discussion ensues about the resurgence of faux fur in the latest collections. The hosts debate the environmental and ethical implications, the quality improvements in faux fur, and the responsibility of designers to promote sustainable practices ([54:00]–[66:15]).

Key Points:

• Chelsea Fairless highlights brands like Chloe and Hodakova for their daring use of faux fur, while Lauren Garone advocates for upcycling vintage furs to maintain environmental integrity ([64:35]–[66:15]).
• The conversation touches on how faux fur trends may lead to overproduction and the potential stigma around wearing vintage vs. new faux fur ([63:52]–[64:22]).

Notable Quotes:

• Lauren Garone at [65:37]: "These brands should invest more in upcycling vintage furs."
• Chelsea Fairless at [66:15]: "Hodakova, who, in her last show, made all of these fur coats out of vintage fur hats, the kind of fur hats that have been out of fashion for 10,000 years."

8. Marc Jacobs and Avant-Garde Designs

The hosts explore Marc Jacobs' evolution as a designer, praising his ability to balance avant-garde creations with commercial appeal. They discuss his recent collections, including exaggerated silhouettes and provocative designs, and how they maintain brand authenticity ([72:33]–[91:15]).

Key Points:

• Lauren Garone appreciates Jacobs' unique style and his role as a role model in the fashion industry ([73:56]–[75:27]).
• Patrick Sandberg highlights the balance Jacobs strikes between high-concept runway shows and wearable fashion items ([75:30]–[76:10]).

Notable Quotes:

• Chelsea Fairless at [75:26]: "I really think that the fact D Squared had, like, the best show of Milan Fashion Week really speaks to how uneven Milan was this year."
• Lauren Garone at [86:35]: "He is one of the best living menswear designers."

9. Closing Remarks and Teasers for VIP Content

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the diverse topics covered, from personal news to high-fashion critiques. They tease exclusive content available to VIP members, where more in-depth discussions about London, Milan, and Paris Fashion Weeks will take place. The episode concludes with heartfelt goodbyes and communal excitement for the future ([91:15]–[93:07]).

Notable Quote:

• Lauren Garone at [93:05]: "As Charlotte York once said, that was beautiful."

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Overall Insights:

• Personal Milestones: Lauren Garone’s pregnancy serves as a central personal update, blending seamlessly into the podcast's broader discussions.

• Fashion Critique: The episode offers a thorough analysis of current fashion trends, designer transitions, and the ethical considerations surrounding material choices like faux fur.

• Pop Culture Commentary: The hosts provide sharp critiques of contemporary pop culture figures, notably Lady Gaga’s evolving artistry and Meghan Markle’s media ventures.

• Guest Perspective: Patrick Sandberg enriches the conversation with his professional insights, particularly regarding fashion industry dynamics and designer strategies.

Conclusion:

Episode 212 of "Every Outfit" masterfully intertwines personal revelations with in-depth fashion and pop culture commentary, all underscored by the hosts' engaging chemistry and clever humor. Whether discussing the nuances of Lady Gaga's latest album or the ethical implications of faux fur’s comeback, Chelsea and Lauren deliver a rich, informative, and entertaining experience for both long-time listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Chelsea Fairless]

Geico's motorcycle expertise gives me the coverage I need. Like 24.

[Lauren Garone]

Seven claims.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm on cloud nine.

[Lauren Garone]

Clouds are wholly unable to support the weight of an adult human.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What's happening?

[Lauren Garone]

Furthermore, clouds are not numbered. Even if you procured a jetpack and searched, you'd find no cloud numbered nine. However, at that altitude, you'd likely befriend a flock of migrating snow geese. Geese who'd encourage you to leave your 24.7geico motorcycle claims insurance behind, as they would take you in and even share their dinner of crickets and clovers with you. GEICO assumes no liability for any indigestion that may occur from a clover cricket dinner. GEICO expertise for your motorcycle.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I spent $40,000 on shoes.

[Patrick Sandberg]

What's the matter, Morty?

[Lauren Garone]

Coral the spring.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Time to buy our little dress.

[Lauren Garone]

Coral the spring. Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, it hasn't. Hi, I'm Lauren Garone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless. Welcome to another episode of the Every Outfit podcast. We have a very special guest today, but first, Lauren has a very special announcement.

[Patrick Sandberg]

That's right. There's going to be a baby of the pod. I am pregnant.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Guys, I'm not finding out just now.

[Patrick Sandberg]

That would be so messed up.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I actually kind of wish you did tell me on the mic. That footage would have been priceless.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Yeah, I sort of had to tell you ahead of time because we had more tour dates to do and we were going to be traveling together. Together. So I had to explain why I wasn't drinking.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So to catch up, the listener. You found out when.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I'm quite far along. So I found out before we were to go to London. So I felt the need to tell you in case I was vomiting in our bathroom before we went on stage.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But you didn't. It seemed like you escaped morning sickness. For the most part, this is true.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Which is great, because I hate vomiting. So I feel very lucky. My pregnancy has been quite boring. I don't really have cravings. My energy level has been pretty good. So I guess that's why I haven't mentioned it to people, which, as we learned last week, sort of got me in trouble.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just want to let it be known that one of our good friends found out that Lauren was pregnant because she just sent her an invitation to her baby shower.

[Patrick Sandberg]

In my defense, you have seen our friend often in person. And I thought you had told her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And you assumed that I would be gossip and spill the beans to all of our mutual friends, which, actually, I didn't for once.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Wait, for once, what have you told people about me?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, well, I did tell all of our mutual friends on the east coast, but that's because I figured they wouldn't.

[Patrick Sandberg]

See you or get an invite to this baby shower. Anyway, I wasn't trying to gatekeep this pregnancy because honestly, at this point, I should have just not said anything and then hard launched a baby. But the reason it's taken this long to announce it is I had this I thought, genius idea. There is a certain pregnancy test brand that does spawn con with like C and D list celebrities. And so I pitched Chelsea. I was like, I know we never reach out to brands. We have been very lucky that cool brands have always reached out to us. What if we did one of those cheesy pregnancy announcements and it was a sponsored post with this pregnancy test brand and somehow you agreed?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I did. I'm very supportive of whoring your pregnancy out for my own gain.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay, we never do this. We asked our reps to reach out to this brand and they did. And we got feedback that, like, okay, it's all going forward. Don't worry about it. And then a weekend went by and we got a text message that was like, yeah, so it's not happening. And we were like, it's not a money thing. Like, if it's about the rate, we truly will do this for nothing. It is about that paid sponsorship tag. And they were like, they just don't want to work with you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're like, hard pass only for us to look at their Instagram this week. And you know whose pregnancy they did sponsor? Peppa Pig.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Is it Peppa Pig or Peppa Pig's mom? I guess I will find out soon now that I'm having a child.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To be fair, Peppa Pig is a household name. I just thought it was funny.

[Patrick Sandberg]

And we should clarify. There's no way that this brand would have approved our photo concept. No matter. We just did the photo shoot on our own, which is Chelsea drinking and smoking and me with a pregnancy belly out looking aghast at a pregnancy test. Which is very funny to be this pregnant because I guess the concept is I've just decided to take a pregnancy test. It's giving. I didn't know I was pregnant.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was so fun though. We did a little shoot with our good friend Yolanda Leani and I felt awkward having to do the retouching notes though, because I'm like circling parts of your face and like, get rid of her split ends and her double chin. Well, the retouching was minimal. I just want to put it out there. For one thing, I do think if you are taking photos against a seamless, you have to have a little bit of retouching, or else it starts to look like the Richard Avedon American west series, and I'm not out here trying to look like a farmer with sun damage.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Absolutely. Tat was like, I can't believe you let Chelsea do edits on your photos. And to be fair, the double chin note was not the fact that I actually have a double chin. It is something I've noticed in photos, which there is often a shadow created underneath my chin onto my neck that does make it look like I have a double chin.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And I was looking out for you, so sue me.

[Patrick Sandberg]

So I do want to call out a group of fuckettes from Melbourne who we did go out drinking with after our Melbourne show. You ended up going back to their house, as did Paul and Tatiana. I went to bed in our hotel room, and Tad overheard them whispering like, I don't think Lauren's here because she's pregnant. They were right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, you guys were right.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I still probably would have been in my hotel room sleeping.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's true. Lauren, it occurred to me that you don't have a lot of experience with babies. You don't have a lot of friends with kids, and I'm sure that you've been doing a lot of research, but I just want to make sure that you are fully prepared to have an infant in your life.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I'm sorry, Chelsea, have you made a bit?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I haven't made a bit. I've just put together a little quiz to test your knowledge, and it's called Duh Baby or Lil Baby. So I'm going to ask you five questions, and you are going to tell me which baby is responsible. Which baby features on Dua Lipa's song Levitating?

[Patrick Sandberg]

This is great, because I truly have no idea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This was the easy one.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Da Baby.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Correct. You do have a 5050 chance. Yes. The answer is Da Baby.

[Patrick Sandberg]

And I'm sorry. This is to make sure that I'm going to be a competent mother.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which baby's debut album was called Baby on Baby.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Little Baby.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. Da Baby.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Fuck.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it's Lil Baby. Okay, I'm gonna play a clip of a song, and you are gonna tell me which baby is rapping bitch on a baby.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Lil Baby. Lil Baby. Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was Lil Baby.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I just want to tell the fuckheads that you also, for the past few months, have been doing on and off a Scarily accurate. Newborn baby cry to me, and it's very upsetting. Would you like to do it for the audience?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I'm not doing it for the audience. See, I knew they wouldn't want that. Okay, we have two more questions. Lauren.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which baby features on Megan thee Stallion's song Cry Baby?

[Patrick Sandberg]

Oh, da baby.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Correct Da baby. Wow. Last question. Which baby is featured on the song Baby as well as the late pop smoke song for the night, Lil Baby? That's a trick question. The correct answer is both babies. You did better than I thought, though.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Oh, thank you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You got three out of five. I'm no longer concerned for this baby's welfare.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I appreciate that. And you are fair to be concerned about this because there is something distinctly coastal millennial about the fact that at the age of 37, I will be the first person in my friend group to have a baby.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Patrick Sandberg]

You're going to be the baby's aunt.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. I'm excited.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Should we reveal what the baby is?

[Chelsea Fairless]

What do you mean what the baby is?

[Patrick Sandberg]

The gender of the child.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Go for it. It's not a sur surprise to me.

[Patrick Sandberg]

It's a boy. So I join a long lineage of very stylish women who have boys like Victoria Beckham and Gwen Stefani and Julia.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fox and Chloe 70 Gwen Stefani. We're gonna get into her later in the episode, but I'm very excited for you. I love that you're a boy mom.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Yeah. I hope that once this child is born, I'm not gonna have. I'm not gonna adopt those creepy boy mom traits. Like, oh, no, there'll be eventually a woman who loves me as much as this boy, and I won't be allowed in the delivery room. I might be suffering from, like, TikTok baby brain rods.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sure you are. But also, like, what do you do with a boy? Literally?

[Patrick Sandberg]

We're going to find out. Chelsea. I feel like the photos that we took together, which, if you are a Patreon VIP member, they are in this episode, they will be on our Instagram. But I feel like there are a couple of photos that kind of dramatize this issue because, like, there are a few photos we took that really feels like it's a sitcom or some Netflix film where it's like, when Lauren got pregnant from a one night stand, her lesbian best friend stepped in to raise the child. What do you even do with a boy coming to Netflix?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that film would be called My Best Friend's Pregnant. We should start pitching that now, we've already created the Kia, as you mentioned.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Now, Chelsea, we had this guest booked for a while, but in light of my personal news and impending maternity leave, I just want to make sure. You're not auditioning my replacement, are you?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I would never.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay. Because I am coming back to the podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although if you have a bad postpartum situation and Ann, just like that happens to come back at the very same time, we might need to think about some options.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Guys, I vow that I will not come back to the podcast unless I am funny. I'm not going to bring a bad vibe.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I'm also just kind of like, are you going to be, like, softer and more feminine? Because that's so weird.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I don't know. And I see these videos of women that are like, I don't remember my old self. I'm mourn that person. And I'm like, am I going to become a totally different person? It's hard for me to imagine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

God, I hope not. Unless you're more major.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Now, that's a possibility. A baby delivering a glow up to its mom. I'd love to see it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Today we are joined by a very special guest. He is a writer, a creative director, a recovering podcaster, and one of the most brilliant and twisted minds in all of Los Angeles. We are so honored to have Patrick Sandberg on every outfit today. Welcome, Patrick.

[Lauren Garone]

Hi. Here I am.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We wanted to have you on to talk about Fashion Month, because I'm always curious about your thoughts about fashion shows and all of that. But then I realized that it would be a huge missed opportunity if we didn't talk about mayhem.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm in it deep right now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Your paws are all the way up.

[Lauren Garone]

If you knew me and my taste and my life and my history with Lady Gaga, that might surprise you, but this is part of life. We grow with these pop divas, and they infiltrate our souls. And I just love her.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Can I say, as I think the person here who is the least of a little monster? Am I even saying that right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if that was correct, but we understand what you were saying.

[Patrick Sandberg]

My paws are halfway up. I'm very nervous to talk about this album with the two of you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Your paws are halfway up. So you don't think it's major? Because I think it's major.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, I think the album is great. I just mean that because I am not a Lady Gaga aficionado, I feel like I cannot put my paws all the way up right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You're not as like, up in the Lore.

[Patrick Sandberg]

But I can give my objective opinion. I'm probably the most objective of the three of us.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True. Yeah, you are.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm Poison. Go on.

[Patrick Sandberg]

This is sort of like a Goldilocks review. We are the Three Bears. But to me, this album as an outsider seems like a synthesis of all of her musical eras, with maybe Abracadabra being a movement towards a new sonic territory.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, Abracadabra is fan service. I think the second we all heard Abracadabra and saw the video during the Grammys, we were like, thank God.

[Lauren Garone]

It felt like, oh, she's giving the fans what they want.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay. Because some people feel like this is a bait and switch, given the visuals and Abracadabra. People were not expecting an 80s tinged album like this. Feels like it has more to do with fashion era David Bowie or controversy era Prince, than, like, say, Marilyn Manson, which is what I would have expected given the visuals.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, based on disease and I think the album cover, we expected it to be more like that Halsey record that was, like, produced by Trent Reznor or something. Like, sonically, who's Halsey? Put some respect on her name.

[Patrick Sandberg]

And also Chelsea. It was produced by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. But I feel like Patrick and I might have been brainwashed into being little monsters because we met in the v magazine offices 10,000 years ago. I'm guessing like 2009 or something like that.

[Lauren Garone]

Yes.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay. It's safe to say that you met during the Obama era. A recession was definitely happening and Lady Gaga was being played ad nauseam.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, yeah, because if you went into the V magazine offices in those days, we listened to the album. We listened to Born this Way from front to back. And you stayed at V for much longer than I. So I guess you then experienced art pop and Joanne in that same fashion.

[Lauren Garone]

I used to work in fashion magazines. I worked at v magazine for six years, and during that time, I did like, 50 photo shoots with Lady Gaga. I threw several parties for her with her, in collaboration with her, and her team edited a magazine with her, which she guest edited. She put herself on the COVID of that issue. This is where my memory starts to leave me.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I was gonna say, wow, you. You are poisoned by Lady Gaga.

[Lauren Garone]

I think she did like 26 covers or something because she wanted it to be a record of the most covers of a single issue. Before that, I even. I worked for Nicola, for McChetty, who went on to be her stylist.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Right.

[Lauren Garone]

He got me the job at V. He was working with her. So we were doing a lot with them because he was a fashion editor at V. During the Born this Way album, Steven would play it on repeat all day long. So it would be blasting from morning until night because we worked very long days there. And we started to call it Gaga Tanamo. Like, we were being waterboarded with Lady Gaga music.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To this day, when I hear government hooker, I go back to, like, having a panic attack in the V magazine offices. Like, it's so deeply embedded in me from that. And it's such an extreme way to experience an artist. But also, V was ahead of the curve. That was the first time she was on the COVID of a fashion magazine.

[Lauren Garone]

Right. Her first V cover was right before I started working there. It was shot by Mario Tesino, styled by Nicola.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The one where she was, like, incredibly tan, and it was like a very Steven Sprouse type 80s look.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. She was like an atomic blonde. And she had these Marc Jacobs visor shield sunglasses that you could peel off and stick back on.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Do you guys have a class action lawsuit on your hands?

[Chelsea Fairless]

We could.

[Lauren Garone]

The New York Times asked me that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They did.

[Lauren Garone]

I read that, and I actually said no. And I stood up for magazine.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay.

[Lauren Garone]

And they did not print my positive comments. And this is when I get into, like, do I have Stockholm syndrome? It was a very messy time in terms of, like, the celebrities that we worked with would become my friends, and I would hang out with them outside of the magazine and things like that. And that didn't happen with Lady Gaga. And so I was a bit like, maybe she doesn't like me or she thinks I'm a nameless minion or I don't know, you know, because she was very close with my boss. But I still had to be around a lot and involved in all of these shoots. And so technically, I've worked for her, but I think that that didn't make me a fan of her in terms of I wasn't kissing ass and brainwashed into being a Gaga fan. I think that I resisted it, in fact, and I sort of didn't allow it to really invade my pop consciousness because it felt so forced on me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And now you've given up?

[Lauren Garone]

Well, it's not that I've given up.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You have given up.

[Lauren Garone]

It's that I've seen the light and I've come around and I think. And now I sound brainwashed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You do? But I do think, like, she puts in the work, right? Like, even with the Abracadabra video, she. She. She learned that whole ass dance routine. Most people don't even go that far these days.

[Patrick Sandberg]

And she was not only the host, but the musical performer on snl. And those were her vocals. That mic was open during the Abracadabra performance. That much I know.

[Lauren Garone]

She's an incredibly technical vocalist. I've realized I came around on her, I think pretty soon. I mean, I was still at V when Artpop happened and I helped throw the art rave.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Where was my invite?

[Lauren Garone]

How were you not on. I made the guest list.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. That's why I'm asking you.

[Lauren Garone]

It was a notorious event. It was pretty insane. Very memorable. An incredible performance, an amazing stage design that she did for that event. I loved that album. That album was my big turning point. I secretly liked the Fame Monster. I just didn't want to admit it. And then Born this Way, what happened the way that we described then our pop happened and I was like, this is what I want from her. Because it felt like a totally unhinged, genre bending, coked up. I'm sorry, pop record.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was. It definitely was.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Where is Mayhem on the coke scale?

[Lauren Garone]

There are some cocaine moments. I think that Killa is a very coked up song.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Lauren Garone]

What I think I'm responding to with Mayhem is that she's doing something that's very rare for a pop star in terms of. We see a lot of pop stars that kind of keep pivoting or trying to evolve and transform themselves and move into the next thing. And they don't often embrace their past work. What I liked about listening to this record is that she's doing things vocally that she hasn't done in over 10 years. And she's referencing, like, ways that she used to sing, but she's also singing in a new way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I agree. I think it's really hard to be so self referential without being completely stagnant as an artist. But she is a risk taker. She's done so many things in between Born this Way and this record that are very much outside of this sound. But I'm happy for her and I feel like she really is serving the audience.

[Lauren Garone]

She's serving the audience, but she's doing something that I think is even beyond serving the audience, which is like she is presenting something new. Like I really. When I moved to la, that was when Chromatica came out and it was when everything was on lockdown and I was driving around in my convertible and we hope, listening to Chromatica. So I really love that record, but that was like kind of a conceptual record. And this Feels like the opposite of the conceptual record because it feels so instinctive and she's just doing what she really wants and what she really loves, and it's reflecting her taste so much.

[Patrick Sandberg]

But to Chelsea's point, there are so many eras just between the singles that were released. Because you have Die with a Smile, which came out six months ago, that is included as the last track of this record. You have disease. Then she releases Harlequin. Then we get Abracadabra. That's a lot of different Gaga eras we've experienced just in the last six months.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's keeping the little monsters fed. Feed me.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm also a Joker 2 defender. I'm with John Waters on that one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That is your most toxic trait, and I am committing you to Arkham Asylum.

[Lauren Garone]

She's one of my favorite actresses currently. I don't know, I just. At some point, I really came to respect and appreciate her so much because I just feel like she's doing it on a level that no one else would dare. There was a time when people made fun of her early records because they were so cheesy pop, you know? And she tried to move away from it, become, like, dark and cool, and then she tried to become edgy, and then she tried to go country and like, you take all these turns running away from yourself, but this feels like. No, actually, like, I like that old shit that I made, and I'm going to make something just like it again to prove how invested I am in this. And it's like, you don't see confidence like that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I agree. She's really doubling down. But I think we also need to address how bad do you want me now?

[Patrick Sandberg]

Is that the Taylor Swift song?

[Chelsea Fairless]

This is the Taylor Swift song, okay.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Which was not written by Taylor Swift, nor did Gaga write it for Taylor Swift. It just sounds like a Taylor Swift song.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just want to put it out there that I think the Taylor Swift of it all is really taking away from the really fabulous Yaz interpolation that no one is talking about in this song.

[Lauren Garone]

You know, I, for years have said that I think that Nicki Minaj should sample Yaz.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Lauren Garone]

But I was like, oh, finally, someone did it. It's all been sitting right there all along. It's so, so perfect for something like this. And the way she did it is very surprising.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I also wouldn't have expected the fact that this genuinely does sound so much like a Taylor song, particularly a Taylor song from the 1989 era, particularly the reissue of 1989 to get really granular about it as only you can.

[Patrick Sandberg]

When it comes to Taylor Swift.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not only me, but no, only you. To me, it's encouraging that, like, Lady Gaga is, like, one of us. She's also in a cvs, listening to all of these Taylor Swift songs and absorbing them, and they are very formulaic.

[Patrick Sandberg]

There is a very earnest, maybe even cringe theater kid on the inside, and she feels safe enough to bring it out again.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's actually interesting that she feels confident enough to do this.

[Lauren Garone]

That's much less cynical. I was convinced that she wrote this song as a joke. And I'm not saying it because the song is bad. The song is really good. I actually think what's the gag of this song is that it's like a Taylor Swift song, but better. And to me, it felt like she was flexing, being like, I could make music like this if I wanted, but here you go. If you like this kind of thing, and I'm going to tear it, and I'm going to make it even better than what she's given.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it's legitimately filling a Taylor void. Right? Because for the first time, we haven't had, like, 10,000 new songs from her.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I mean, we're all waiting for that reputation reissue.

[Lauren Garone]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, but How Bad do youo Want Me does feel like it's somehow a descendant of the alley pop songs from A Star Is Born, which felt like her doing a pastiche of a certain kind of pop. It was almost like a form of pop drag. She was doing, like, songs as the character.

[Patrick Sandberg]

And not to be confused with Harlequin, which are songs through the. Through the point of view of Harlequin, her character in Joker, too. Correct. That's the perspective of that album.

[Lauren Garone]

Patrick, if that character was also somehow Tony Bennett.

[Patrick Sandberg]

We need to talk about other things.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But no, you're right. I could do this all night. We'll lock Lauren in a closet and just go.

[Lauren Garone]

I was cool when I was 12. Okay. This is. I've been cool since birth, but I grew up in the 90s, which meant that I was really into, like, older people. And, you know, I was into music from the 80s. That was, like, kind of my thing when I was a kid. That made me weird. And so I also just feel like this album is, like, catering to someone like me because, like, you listen to a song like Killa and it has the guitars from David Bowie fame, and it's like she's sampling Susie and the Banshees. And Yaz and Phil Collins. And she has this song called Love Drug, which feels to me like her doing, like, a Stevie Nicks solo type song. She made an 80s album for 80s freaks.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Final thoughts on Mayhem.

[Chelsea Fairless]

10 out of 10.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm trying to remember the lyric she has. It's like, her stupidest lyric ever that I love. That's like, oh, in Born this way, she's. She goes, I love my life. I love this record. That's how I feel about Mayhem.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's beautiful, Patrick. So people think that gay on gay crime doesn't exist, but I did force Patrick to watch Meghan Markle's Netflix show.

[Lauren Garone]

It was abusive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm so sorry. But I'm very excited to talk about it with you guys.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Oh, you mean with love comma Megan. I was searching around for the show because they have that Netflix deal. There are so many docu series with them already that it took me forever to find the show. I think the show begs the question, what exactly is an aspirational lifestyle at this point? Because I love rich people. Shit. And she has all the hallmarks of a rich bitch lifestyle, Right? The show begins with her walking to her bees with her beekeeper. She has a fabulous mansion in Montecito, and yet this show is so toothless.

[Lauren Garone]

Didn't you get the impression she had never seen those beats before?

[Chelsea Fairless]

She was scared. She had also never seen that kitchen that they were cooking in before. It's the most insane thing, the idea that someone can have that much money and the output looks like a target. Sponsored segment on an HGTV show. And I kind of don't get it. Don't you just poach, like, someone high up at Goop or Flamingo Estate to just, like, run the whole thing?

[Patrick Sandberg]

I mean, if tabloid reports are to be believed, they've had a mass exodus out of their production company. And I kind of get the sense not to be a Meghan Markle or a Meghan Sussex. We'll get to that in a second, hater. But you only get this kind of show if a producer cannot tell you to do otherwise. Like, I truly believe there were people who could make this show better. I don't think she wants to listen to them.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm gonna defend the show. No, I'm kidding. I'm so obsessed with being contrary. I'm like, actually, you guys are jealous. I'll tell you what. I'm gonna be positive. I. I watched two episodes, and I did come away convinced that she does do this stuff when nobody's watching the confidence she had with that skillet of pasta. Like the know it all tone she has when she's describing how to do things. I was like, oh, she really has no life.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay, to add to your point. No, no, because I saw a tweet that was like, what in the 2015 Pinterest is all of this stuff? And I think that is what explains it. Because if you understand that she started dating Prince Harry in 2016, I think this entire show makes sense where it's like she has been insulated from the outside world for nearly a decade. That I agree with you, Patrick. That's why she thinks these things are the bee's knees, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because it's like that thing where people get frozen at the age when they first become famous and like can't evolve.

[Lauren Garone]

I just think that she is always lying and is the phoniest, most false person that I've maybe ever laid eyes on. And I don't mean that as an insult. I just think.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I agree.

[Lauren Garone]

I think that she. There's trauma, a desire to perform. She was an actress. She feels pressure because of, you know, the high profile nature of their exit from royal responsibilities or whatever the hell. I don't care about the royal family, by the way, So I don't even know what any of it means. But when they left England and got on Tyler Perry's jet and came to America, I think that it was like, oh, you better do something with yourselves to like validate this choice because it was taken so badly by so many people. And so I think that she has this kind of self inflicted pressure to do something that has wide appeal. I think it's possible she's even dumbed down her taste. I don't. Because I don't think it's possible for someone to have taste this bad. The thing that really got me was the like flower sprinkling. The little flowers on top of everything, which I just did not understand.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, see, I don't think that she is this girl and I don't think she should have to be. Like, I want her to enjoy her life now that she has escaped the royal family or the firm or whatever they call it. I want her to have her private chef. I don't want her to feel like she has to do this kind of thing. But I understand, like she has to do this kind of thing because they have the hundred million dollar Netflix deal and they have to deliver something.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Also, the premise of the entire first episode is how much she loves to have house guests. So much so that she Makes her own Epsom salt for them. And I'm like, no one is staying at your house.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, they're being put up at the Monaco Inn or whatever that hotel is, for sure. Also, her hair stylist had to be on this show in order to keep his employment.

[Lauren Garone]

I believe he was her makeup artist. He seems like a very sweet guy. And also her makeup is bad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Two things can be true.

[Lauren Garone]

The show and Megan. There's kind of a general halo around it all that smells, feels, and tastes like a hostage situation. And I don't know if she's being held at gunpoint or we are.

[Patrick Sandberg]

As Chelsea said, two things can be true. And I've watched that Oprah interview. I've read Spare. The sense I get is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, you read Spare?

[Patrick Sandberg]

Indeed I did.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Did you read Spare?

[Lauren Garone]

No, but I read all of the kind of reactions to Spare Same.

[Patrick Sandberg]

The juicy bits. But it really seems like they wanted to do all the things you have to do for your quote unquote job as a royal family person. Like going on tour, going to events, but, like, on their own time and also to make money from it. And when they left the Royal Family, I remember being like, I think they're overestimating how interested people might be in their. And I've been proven correct. I mean, I get why Netflix gave them a hundred million dollars. They were like, okay, we need to get to them before anyone can. But it's not giving.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Although we did watch Megan and Harry, and we did watch this. Somehow they got us to watch at least two episodes of. What is it called?

[Patrick Sandberg]

With Love, comma Megan.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So good for them.

[Lauren Garone]

I also watched Megan and Harry, and I remember it made me so angry sitting here right now. I don't remember at all.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's because we're watching too much garbage on Netflix all of the time that our brains just, like, can't retain information. You know, I know I have a.

[Lauren Garone]

Strong opinion about this. I just can't remember what it is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Remember what it is or why.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Okay, can we discuss the viral moment where she corrects Mindy Kaling, who keeps calling her Meghan Markle, and she's like, I'm not Meghan Markle. It's Sussex. I am not a royal expert, but Sussex is her title. Their last name is Mountbatten Windsor.

[Lauren Garone]

I thought Sussex was, like, a place.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is a place.

[Lauren Garone]

They lord over Sussex.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Her Instagram name is just Megan, Duchess of Sussex.

[Patrick Sandberg]

That's a title.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a title. You're right.

[Lauren Garone]

It is good to know to echo your first thoughts about this? That regardless of how much money you have, it doesn't matter. You are still sweating about fulfilling your content deal and putting out subpar programming on Netflix just like everybody else I know.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Is it worse to have a mediocre show or a show that's so mediocre? People are hate watching it because I don't think anyone's enjoying this, but they're definitely hate watching it.

[Lauren Garone]

The first one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Speaking of controversial divas, I don't even know how to transition.

[Lauren Garone]

Lauren, calling Megan a diva is like so generous of you.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I was gonna say. Speaking of mid things, Patrick, did Chelsea send you the video that I sent her of Gwen Stefani doing ads for this Christian prayer app?

[Lauren Garone]

Yes, but I was at my current workplace so I watched it with the sound off and I thought it was AI.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it wasn't and we'll play a clip of it right now.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Looking to grow closer to God this Lent, I'd love to invite you to join me in praying every day leading.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Up to Easter on the Hallow app. I love this app and I use.

[Lauren Garone]

It every day for Lent.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're doing this incredible 40 day prayer challenge.

[Patrick Sandberg]

You'll join millions of Christians around the.

[Chelsea Fairless]

World, including the incredible Mark Wahlberg, Jonathan Roumie, Father Mike Schmitz, and so many more in meditating on Jesus.

[Lauren Garone]

Jesus's way to the Cross it's going.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To be the most transformative Lent of our lives Guys. It's going to be the most transformative Lent of our lives.

[Lauren Garone]

Jesus's way to the cross was like a trail of blood and torture.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I heard.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Not according to the Hallow app. Patrick, the Hallow app is a Catholic prayer and meditation app that offers audio guided prayers, Bible readings and Christian music. It also includes community challenges, sleep meditations, a journaling tool. I know that your eyebrows perked up when you heard Mark Wahlberg's name. Well, would you be curious to know he is a partner and investor of this app and frequently makes social media videos where he can be heard saying stay hashtag prayer up.

[Lauren Garone]

I would expect nothing less because I don't think he would allow them to use his name if he was not a full partner.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I love that this is the call map for Christians.

[Lauren Garone]

I hate everything about it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To clarify, I don't have a problem with the fact that our girl is religious. I have a problem with the fact that our girl has become very basic and now is doing like the saddest kind of spawn that you can do and shouting out Mark Wahlberg, a man who Committed a hate crime.

[Patrick Sandberg]

He's been prayed up ever since that day, trying to atone.

[Lauren Garone]

Chelsea, Marky Mark did what? I couldn't tell you what he's been up to. I remember the departed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Me too. That was the last time. I remember really checking in with Marky Mark. But I just want to understand, like, when did Gwen Stefani become Kristin Chenoweth? You know what I mean? It would be as if, like, PJ Harvey aged into Bethenny Frankel and, like, no one's talking about it.

[Patrick Sandberg]

To be fair, there were warning signs. And it starts with the fact that she grew up in Orange county in a traditional Italian American family. And she has been Catholic from the jump. Now, I thought she was Catholic. Like, I was Catholic, where I'm in it for the aesthetics. I didn't know she really meant it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's doing a 40 day prayer challenge. I think, like, I'm going to baptize.

[Patrick Sandberg]

The kid, but, you know, just for like the photos and the cute little outfit.

[Lauren Garone]

I mean, I was raised Catholic and whatever the fuck that was. It wasn't Catholic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I was raised Unitarian, so I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Chelsea, I downloaded the Hallow app.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They got your ass.

[Patrick Sandberg]

They got my ass for 9.99amonth. No, I don't know how much. Patrick. We used to do ads for a company called Dipsea, which was an audio erotica app. And I do not have proof, but I just want to show you. We will embed this in the show notes. I think they have the same app developer because look at the illustration style between the two. The top image is Dipsy, the lower image is is the Halo app.

[Lauren Garone]

You need to take this thing straight to 4chan. What do we think happened first? Gwen Stefani got the country western boyfriend, or Gwen Stefani's soul left her body and she became a Stepford wife. Because I weirdly feel like it. She predated him.

[Patrick Sandberg]

And her becoming a Stepford wife predated the man.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Blake Shelton. He has a name.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Here's the thing. I think the actual inflection point is leaving Gavin Rossdale because he cheated on her with the nanny, which was not cool.

[Chelsea Fairless]

More importantly, didn't know that your phone is connected to your iPad. And that's how she found out.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Too stupid for words. But I think the inflection point was she stopped wearing red lipstick. That's when she left Gavin, went on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The Voice and met Blake and started wearing neutral lipsticks.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Yes.

[Lauren Garone]

She would never be seen at Warped Tour again.

[Patrick Sandberg]

But that Coachella performance last year with no Doubt was incredible.

[Lauren Garone]

I walked out. It's really sad, and I really. I don't want to be on record saying negative things about Gwen Stefani. I love her. When I was a kid, when I was in middle school, she could do no wrong.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Look at us. How do you think we feel about what's happening to Gwen Stefani right now?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's why we're so upset.

[Lauren Garone]

But you know what? You have to stop enabling people like this to make poor choices. I have been disappointed with Gwen Stevani's choices for going on 20 years, and I feel comfortable saying something about it now.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No. And I think for Chell and I to watch one Gen X icon after the other become basic has been very tough for us because there's no person to point to of, like, what is our path.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there's many people to point to. It's just not Gwen Stefani necessarily. Although, you know what? She seems happy, so good for her. I do want her to be happy.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Well, because she's hashtag prayed up, thanks to the Hallow app.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We have to move on. We have so much fashion Month stuff to talk about. That is why I wanted Patrick to come here today. There were a lot of noteworthy debuts, new designers taking over established luxury houses. I think we should start with the first big one, which was Veronica Leone's debut at Calvin Klein. How are we feeling, guys?

[Patrick Sandberg]

Calvin Klein is totem, is the row, is Phoebe, Philo era Selene, and we'll soon be Banana Republic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not. No.

[Lauren Garone]

Wow. We had to start there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I feel like it was very well received online or at least in the Internet circle that I inhabit.

[Lauren Garone]

It was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I feel like it was, but I guarantee that everyone has already forgotten about it because there was nothing to remember, really. And to me, it felt very common. To your point about it being like, the Row and Totem and all these brands that we already have, it's very of the moment.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I mean, it's gonna do well in stores. Maybe not with us, but, like, it does occupy a predominant trend in fashion, which is this, like, downtown gallerista, minimalist, clean aesthetic, girly, but yet women from Calabasas who wanna dress like that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I don't think it's gonna do well in stores. Like the Francisco Costa era notoriously did terribly in stores. And to me, this is not that far away from that.

[Lauren Garone]

I loved his era of Calvin, but I think that Francisco was perfectly matched with Italo, who did the men's. And even though they kind of bisected the Calvin identity. You still got a little bit of everything. You got the kind of like slutty disco Calvin on the men's side and then you got the like Hampton's luxury on the women's side. And strangely enough, that is Calvin. He's a bisexual. He's like a two sided person.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But there's actually no sex in this collection though, which is kind of sad because I feel like Phoebe Philo, for example, there is sexuality in that. But this does feel very like sedate and safe and boring.

[Patrick Sandberg]

A girl who took so many SSRIs that she could no longer have sex.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I do like the handbags that look like the CK1 perfume bottle that I thought was cool. And I like that they brought back the original Calvin Klein logo from the 70s and like the Obsession typeface and some of their marketing, like, I feel like that's very smart. And that was a cool thing that Italozu Kelly did, was that amazing collection he did with all of the like perfume names on the sweatshirts and stuff.

[Lauren Garone]

Listen, it was her first collection, so there's definitely room to expand. I like that they brought back the collection at Calvin Klein. I thought it was very depressing when they got rid of it after Ref Simmons. So I think that's to be applauded. We want them making fashion, but I also think that Calvin Klein, his strength was always in marketing and advertising and it was also in product development. So there were so many aspects of Calvin Klein that I think that you can play with now in a sort of a postmodern way, whether it's the underwear, the jeans, all of that. And they did it a little bit with the fragrance. But I just feel like you're designing Calvin Klein, it's like tear it to shreds, like make it fun, make it interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Well, it makes me appreciate what Raph did, which was to do something so drastically different than anything that we had seen. In theory, Calvin Klein should be the biggest, most major minimalist designer. Of course. But in the event that we can't get the Olsen twins to design for Calvin Klein, we need to figure something out.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, but I do think it's telling that online everyone was eating this collection up because it hit all of the points that are just very popular.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but I also feel like sometimes when you see enough images of a fashion show on social media, people then automatically think that it's good because they're seeing so much of it and that like validates it. And obviously there was a huge PR budget for this And Calvin Klein put a lot of money into making this happen and having all of the noteworthy guests and all of that. It was so fun to see Calvin Klein at the show, though. I loved that.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Well, also, New York Fashion Week has just become so bleak that we do need to have Calvin Klein on the calendar or else what do we have?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's true. They need to figure out Calvin Klein just to risk restore faith in the entire institution of New York Fashion Week. Speaking of American designers that don't show in New York, Heider Ackerman's first collection for Tom Ford was shown in Paris.

[Lauren Garone]

I had to pop a bottle Tom.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Ford, the label has always been fascinating to me because he was never particularly interested in innovating. Like, it was always kind of, I'm Tom Ford. Here are the five things I like designing. I design well and my customers love. And that's not a knock on Tom Ford. I love this man. I waited five hours in line at a Neiman Marcus when his coffee table book came out so he could sign it. Having said all that, I just didn't really have thoughts on what another designer stepping into the fold could beer could look like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I'm obsessed with it because to me it's a mutual glow up. It makes Heider Ackerman look better and it makes Tom Ford look better.

[Lauren Garone]

Somehow I think that the previous designer was not given a fair shot. I don't know what happened behind the scenes there, but it was someone who worked with Tom Ford for a long time. I came into this show with very low expectations just because I. And this is not a knock on him, but I personally don't respond to Heider Ackerman's work. And so I was like, incredibly impressed and surprised by this collection because I really liked it. I felt like he did elevate what Tom Ford has been. Yeah, it was like kind of one of the big surprises for me this season was the Tom Ford show for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because what they needed to do was just like tweak the silhouette a little bit, right? Because at the end of the day, Kris Jenner can still go to Tom Ford to buy tuxedo jackets in leather pants, but they will be like, like slightly more fab. And also the kind of bitch that wants to shop at Phoebe. Philo might want to buy some of this stuff. And why shouldn't she? Like, this brand should be appealing to a wide swath of people.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Yeah, it's funny because stylistically, Hayter Ackerman and Tom Ford don't have a ton in common design Wise. But, like, what they do share is that they're both impeccably groomed, very hot men.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, they are. Well, it's the tailoring, right? They're both very good at tailoring. I wouldn't say that color has been Tom Ford's strong suit necessarily. So I feel like that's something that Heiter Ackerman can actually add to the Tom Ford equation.

[Patrick Sandberg]

What do we think of the stylistic choice for some models to be wearing only one glove?

[Lauren Garone]

Well, as a Michael Jackson fanatic, I quite enjoyed it. I also just know from working in fashion and so many of my friends that work in fashion, that something that Heiter is known for in particular is textiles. Like, he is a big textile snob. If you ever are at Fabric Week with him and he's milling around, you do not want him seeing what you're buying, because he will come snoop on you and try and steal away your vendors. He has a real eye for, like, very luxurious fabrics, not to put it in that kind of crass of a term. And I think that's also why it feels very elevated for Tom Ford. Like, you can. This all looks very expensive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, can we talk about the collective lack of buccal fat in this show? All of the models, they looked insane. I love it. It's so dramatic. But I just couldn't help but notice these cheekbones.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Was it a visit to the plastic surgeon, or was it the lighting designer? Possibly a mixture of the two.

[Lauren Garone]

It's a sign of the times. And we saw the same with Megan.

[Patrick Sandberg]

We've moved on, Patrick.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We'll never move on.

[Lauren Garone]

Mark Wahlberg, look into it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

On to Julian Klosner's first collection for Dries Van Noten. He has been designing there for 10,000 years under Dries. So not the hugest departure. But, Patrick, I've heard that you are not a fan.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Dries is a very important designer for me. When you're looking at fashion and you're critiquing it, I think it's really important to think of, like, what you're critiquing in a designer and, like, why. A lot of people, when they're judging fashion, they're kind of thinking, would I wear this? And to me, that's not a valid point of critique. I think that if you care about fashion, you should be, what is the intention? Who is the customer? What's the idea behind it? What is it pushing forward? How is it smart? How does it make you think? I'm I'm very interested in design and creativity in that way. So I like talking about fashion because most of the time, it's things that I would never wear by default, particular style. That said, I wear a lot of Dries. And he's one of the best living menswear designers. So I'm reserving judgment until I see the men's show, for starters. But I also, as someone who's followed all of his women's work, I find that the ease and the effortlessness that you get with trees is no longer there. This felt like a very effortless, comfortful collection to me. It felt a little bit over styled, over accessorized, trying a little too hard. I understand that it's hard for a new designer when you're taking over a brand because you want to leave your mark and you want to make an impression and you want to do what we were just criticizing the designer at Calvin Klein for not doing. But I also think that there's just no stepping into Dries Van Noten's shoes in a certain way. And when you finally see the new designer there, it actually lands that, like, Driese is no longer in the building. And there's something that's very sad about it. But I do know people that felt that way about Marnie when Francisco took over, who I love and who I think is genius. So as a first collection, it didn't land for me. And I was kind of overcome with, like, grief when I. When I saw it. But I don't want to disparage it and say that, like, they made a bad decision. I think that I want to see where it goes for me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm with you. This is not a brand where I want anyone to reinvent the wheel, I think because the clothes are so wearable and they're so specific. And he has been such an incredible, dependable designer. But I do think that the women's wear, for the most part, is pretty aligned with what Dries has been doing. I think the misstep in this collection was the weird section towards the end with the stirrup pants. That kind of did feel more like Heider Ackerman, or did feel like a bit more away from that sort of slouchy, luxurious, bohemian Dries silhouette.

[Lauren Garone]

I mean, I think that Dries has always made clothes for art world lesbians, let's just say it. And that might actually be a pretty niche market. So you can't fault them for wanting to expand the Dries consumer, which is perhaps what we're seeing here.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, there are always lesbian clothes, but also because Dries does so many floral textiles. That's always going to give, like, she. Her, like, hetero woman.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Absolutely. But, you know, maybe the sportswear silhouette stirrup pants don't have a place in Dries.

[Lauren Garone]

If you pick this collection apart, I'm sure all the pieces are really beautiful. I think that it was just somehow how it was put together. I felt a little bit assaulted by it when I saw it.

[Patrick Sandberg]

You know who I also felt styling might have been? The problem of the collection was Sarah Burton's debut for Givenchy, because the first look that appeared on the Runway was that fishnet onesie with Givenchy Paris 1952 emblazoned on the chest, and it was giving Dior. And I got very nervous for what the rest of the collection was going to be like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The rest of the collection is not as bad as that look, but that.

[Lauren Garone]

Scared me so deeply, I actually think it got worse. I think that was the height.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I feel like that was like kind of like the catsuit equivalent of like a ball man T shirt on a man or something. It was showing the logo in a way that was so deeply unchic to me.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I think this collection is filled with gray clothing for actresses of a certain age to wear on their prestige film promo tours.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, when you put it that way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we can't argue that Sarah Burton is incredible at tailoring. And when you look at the jackets and the pants and all of that, like, all these pieces are beautiful. But I don't know if the overall vision is there or interesting or something that we should care about.

[Lauren Garone]

It can be impeccably tailored while also being passe, which is the way that I felt about it. I watched an interview with her that System magazine did, and when she explains it, it all makes sense. But looking at it, it just feels very dated. It kind of feels like the way that a lot of brands were looking seven or eight years ago. And that's also why I didn't respond to her McQueen very much. To me, she's very much a bridal type of a designer. And I think that when Lee McQueen passed away, it was the very. It was the respectful thing to do to install her at the brand. With all due respect, I don't think that McQueen upheld itself as a force in fashion. It became a different type of brand. So when she moved to Givenchy, I was skeptical because I see her as being very kind of middle of the road, taste wise. The thing is, though, that I don't really have any kind of attachment to Givenchy either. So I'm okay with someone destroying that brand because I don't understand what it is anymore.

[Patrick Sandberg]

She also fell victim to what happens to this inevitable musical chairs that is happening with designers where she has a style that she's known for this impeccable tailoring, which was different than Lee McQueen's tailoring, but is what she did when she was at McQueen. There's also this de facto, I'm at a heritage brand, so I need to do some sort of dog whistle reference to the original designer, which came in those gigantic sculptural bow scarves.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Those were very cool, actually. That was the best part, I think.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Yeah. And that was a reference to Givenchy's 1952 couture collection. But I feel like she sort of cobbled together what a lot of designers do when they're installed at new houses of, like, a little bit of what I used to do. I have to reference the other designer. And then I need to make some, like, weird thotty catsuits so people know it's still hot and young people want to wear it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I guess if you put a gun to my head and ask me who designed this collection and what heritage brand are they designing for? If I hadn't seen the first look, I don't think I would be able to answer that question. And in theory, Givenchy should make more sense for her, because McQueen was a bit more edgy than I think she actually is as a designer. And Givenchy is more like traditional, like couture, like those sorts of silhouettes that she's so good at. So the bridal silhouette that you mentioned. So I don't know. I'm sad that it didn't come together. I want this to be good. What else do we have to talk about?

[Patrick Sandberg]

Fur is back, baby. Is this a recession indicator?

[Lauren Garone]

It could be so many things. It's coming on the tailwinds of indie sleaze, the aughts revival, Trump's second presidency.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't feel good about this. Also, I think we should clarify, for the most part, it's faux fur that's back, but what's back is just full length fur coats. What's back is, shockingly, tails. Fake tails, but tails nonetheless. Being at several fashion shows, I think Chloe's the most extreme example. So perhaps we start there.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I mean, to be fair, how else are these women in these sheer diaphanous dresses supposed to keep warm during the December months? Okay. This is a fall winter collection.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Practical people really like this show. And I Guess I do think it's successful as a Chloe collection because they have a very specific look. Love it or hate it, and I do think this is a well executed version of that look. But I'm just not personally ready to see tails on the Runway in this fashion, in this boho way. I think unless you're like the lead singer of Royal Trucks, I don't want to see a raccoon tail anywhere in sight.

[Lauren Garone]

Thank you for shouting out Jennifer Harama. My dear friends. I doubt she's listening to this, but if you are, hi. I miss you. There was one look in particular that I think that Jennifer. Jennifer would have really liked, which Kathy Horn pointed out had the unfortunate side effect of looking like a bunch of dead mice. I love the Chloe designer. I think she's completely revitalized that brand. I think what she's doing is so daring. I think the fact that she came out with this many fur looks this season was very bold and kind of provocative. And I just feel like, who else is giving you this much to fight about? I found it all very exciting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, a lot of people are giving us fur, but I think what's specific to this collection is we haven't really seen interpretations of very specifically, like late 70s, 80s type fur coats be on the Runway sort of as they were in that era.

[Lauren Garone]

But there is something so odds about it, because if you came of age in the arts and you were, let's say, in college or your early 20s, let's say in San Francisco, let's say, snorting Adderall with a bunch of debutantes, they would all be wearing similar fur coats which they had stolen from their socialite mothers and Pacific Heights. You would be, say, driving around drunk, listening to Britney Spears is in the zone popping pills, and you would understand that this is a really fierce fucking vibe. Not that I would know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You wouldn't know. And look, I get it. I wore a lot of fur coats in the indie sleaze era. Not fake fur coats. You just get the vintage fur coats from vintage stores and thrift stores and whatever.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Or let's say you get the 50s fur jacket from your grandmother in New Jersey.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lauren Garone]

The raccoon tails in particular are very like cockettes. I'm making a lot of San Francisco references, but I feel like Chloe is bringing it out at me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, this is the thing, and I feel this about the Ann demillen Meester show also. I don't want to see these clothes on people that aren't genuinely bohemian. You know, Like, I. If you're Florence Welch or if you're Joanna Newsom or something.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Walk around in these clothes and like, do your thing. You do you girl.

[Patrick Sandberg]

But if you're Millie Bobby Brown, you don't want to see it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I just don't want to see random celebrities, 30s wearing these kinds of clothes. Call me crazy, but that's why their.

[Lauren Garone]

Perfect brand ambassador is Sienna Miller. And seeing her front row at the show and always wearing it, you're like, I've never seen better synergy between a brand.

[Patrick Sandberg]

See, I've always struggled with a bohemian vibe. I'm gonna do the thing you, you say not to do. Which is like, I would not wear a boho vibe, but with Ann Demula Meester, a goth boho vibe. I've never been able to say no to a Stevie.

[Lauren Garone]

Next type of a thing. A witchiness, perhaps.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, you know, I love Stevie and I obviously get it and I do love the Andamila Meester look. Just generally, I get it.

[Patrick Sandberg]

You don't want posers. You don't want to suddenly see Kendall.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Jenner after her rollification makeover in 10,000 Raccoon Tales. No, I don't. Call me crazy.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, good style is like knowing yourself and not misrepresenting yourself. So I think that's sometimes the danger of fashion people. They kind of jump on everything.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There was so much faux fur this season. I honestly lost track at a certain point. I think maybe it's about talking about the designers that don't usually show faux fur, like Rabban, which was like an insane amount of faux fur, also tails. And I do think the interest in tales can be traced back to like there was a Bottega Veneta show maybe like three years ago or something like that. It was still in the Daniel Lee era. And he made the most outrageous, like jewel toned faux fur coats, all tails, but they were like the most massive, huge, ridiculous garments. It was almost like satirizing rich women in the 80s in the same way that I think Balenciaga does, where it's like, I'm gonna make you look like a cartoon of a rich woman in the eight eighties. And that was kind of like the concept. And I feel like now we're just seeing this sort of faux fur disseminate from there in a sort of less ironic way. And I don't think that like a brand like Rabanne is going to stick with faux fur. I think that's going to be over in a couple of seasons.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, no. I mean, Rabanne is trying to hold on to anything so that it can evolve its stylistic kind of language beyond the chainmail.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I do think that they do interesting stuff sometimes. But, like, I think a more interesting person using fake fur is Simone Rocha because she has been doing it for a minute. It sort of entered into the lexicon of, like, the things that she does, which are very specific. It's like leather and tulle and bomber jackets and that sort of thing. And I feel like at least those pieces, like, because she has, like, such a insane fan base, they are more likely to be, like, collected and not just discarded after like, a couple of seasons when the trend passes. But who knows?

[Patrick Sandberg]

Well, I feel like Simone Rocha had the most fun with the fur trend and kind of pushed its application to the furthest because she had furstoles and coats. But then it was like, what if there was a drop waist dress that was all made out of fur?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And like the fur bras and stuff. I think we like fake fur when it's really ridiculous. And like, obviously Phoebe Filo gave us those real fur shoes that kind of kicked this whole thing off.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Well, the most ridiculous application, I think, in the Simone Rocha show was taking the first stole and then tying it around the model's neck as if it's this like, furry sculptural xenomorph that's trying to strangle the models.

[Lauren Garone]

I think that led to Scarphamania. This goes back to everybody kind of copying the row. Everyone wanting like a row silhouette, like a big giant jacket, A cape coat, perhaps. Yeah.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Because it's just become such a shortcut for like a high impact style piece.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it is a timeless kind of coat. Right. And I do think that people ultimately should be investing in, like, really expensive, fabulous codes. Like, if I was buying clothes that were like, off the Runway, I would be buying just like, like an Alaya coat for thousands of dollars and wearing it for the rest of my life.

[Lauren Garone]

I don't know. When I buy things that are expensive, I don't want to wear them at all. I'm like, scared to leave the house in them. Then I'm like, why did I do this?

[Patrick Sandberg]

You become agoraphobic, but based on fashion choices.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. I'm like, what am I, little Lord Fauntleroy? Like, why did I get this, like, expensive thing that now I, like, can't look normal in? Because it does look too fabulous for real life sometimes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I feel like I have the problem of buying things that are too formal to ever wear in my day to day life. But I feel like those are the only things that are worth investing in, like a gown that I'll wear once.

[Patrick Sandberg]

We'Re back in my closet recording given. I guess my thing is buying shoes I don't wear, because Chelsea will just look around this closet and go, I've never seen you in that, Patrick.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look at the soles of some of these shoes. She does not wear any of this shit. It's actually crazy. I guess I want to get into a sort of bigger question about fur, which is that now fake fur is so massively popular this season, which means that it is going to trickle down too fast. Fashion. We're going to see a huge amount of these sort of garments being produced. And we're now at this point where it's kind of, like, politically incorrect to wear even vintage fur.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Oh, I can't use the excuse that this is my grandmother's fur jacket.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You can. I just think that there has been a bit of a stigma attached to.

[Lauren Garone]

That because people are stupid and they can't tell the difference.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, and some people think that, like, even wearing vintage fur, any sort of world where fur is popular, it ends up ultimately endangering animals. But I think it's sad that we're now just going to make a gazillion plastic coats, but people won't feel comfortable to just wear their grandmother's coat or something that's in a thrift store or whatever.

[Patrick Sandberg]

This is the EV conundrum. They made the Hummer 3 that's electric, but the amount of batteries it takes to power it, it's just.

[Lauren Garone]

Just.

[Patrick Sandberg]

It would be better for the environment if you were driving a 2005 Toyota Camry.

[Lauren Garone]

You're also contributing to economic inequality in the sense that a lot of these luxury brands are charging just as much for faux fur as they were for real fur, spending much less on it. And I think these sorts of things should be called out. I was saying before we were recording, I think that these brands should invest more in upcycling vintage furs, being very explicit about it and putting it in their messaging so everybody knows, but also keeping it extremely limited. It's like, if YSL only sold 10 fur coats of the collection, they could justify charging a lot of money for them because they're so rare, but they could also be recycled first so they're not killing any animals, and it would be better for the environment. I know that's, like, maybe too many hoops to jump through in terms of, like, messaging for people to, like, fully get it into their heads, but I just think that there's so much kind of radical chic going on in terms of everybody claiming things about being environmentally sound or being ethical as brands, but then they're doing these things that kind of say the opposite to me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do feel like we should note that the quality of faux fur drastically improved about five minutes ago. No, no, no. I would say about 10 years ago. But I'm with you. I think we should be upcycling. And one designer that is doing that is Hodakova, who, in her last show, made all of these fur coats out of vintage fur hats, the kind of fur hats that have been out of fashion for 10,000 years. No one's wearing them. You can probably buy them for five, ten dollars at the flea market. And I feel like that is a brilliant solution to what we're talking about.

[Lauren Garone]

I love Hodakova, by the way. I think what she's doing is, like, very fab.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I agree.

[Lauren Garone]

I don't hate everyone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't hate everyone either. And I feel like her show is so great and kind of, like, reminds me of what was great about Victor and Rolf in their heyday, which is, like, taking a concept, in this case a pair of trousers with a belt, and doing, like, every sort of crazy, surrealist iteration of that that you could imagine, culminating in the most extreme version, which is, like, the gown where the belt is, like, suspended off the shoulders, and it's fabulous and major. Or actually, I guess the most extreme look is the model that looked like she was just wearing a cello. Also very Victor and Rolf, the string instruments of it all.

[Lauren Garone]

And you don't have to want to wear it to appreciate it.

[Patrick Sandberg]

If Patrick can leave you with one message from this episode, it's that, well.

[Lauren Garone]

I'm in a lot of fashion group chats, and, like, I find myself frustrated when people are critiquing designers based on if they would personally wear it or not. It's like, it's not all about you. I just want to say, because I've been dying to say it this whole time, the one designer I will buy a raccoon tail from, or any fur for that matter, real or fake, is D motherfucking squared. And it's not, because I'm collecting it and keeping it forever. I may leave it on the beach in Fire island, but guess what? It's really, really major.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I really think that the fact that D Squared had, like, the best show of Milan Fashion Week really speaks to how uneven Milan was this this year. But I'm happy for them. I Appreciate them. D Squared was your pick for Chanel. I remember.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. Okay. D Squared, it was an anniversary show, so they did go all out. They had cars on the Runway dropping people off. It was one of the coolest production ideas that I've seen, D Squared the last few years, I think. I mean, I don't know exactly when she started. Whenever Haley Wallen started doing D Squared, it really started popping off, because she's definitely consulting with them and influencing where they're taking their collections as well as casting, which is a lot like what she did at Mugler. And she really got them to embrace the kind of trashy 2000s aesthetic again and lean into the thing that they were the best at. And I think that we're seeing a D Squared renaissance. And it's beautiful to watch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is beautiful. And Haley is a full genius and has been a genius, and it's the most perfect pairing of designer and stylist. And I love that. That show was so overtly homosexual. It was giving us, like, Bob Mackie, Cher, Grace Jones, leather daddies, like, gay leather, like, cop fetishism.

[Lauren Garone]

It was the Village People of fetishism.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was. It was. And then when I saw Brigitte Nielsen arresting them. Arresting them. But like. Like a dominatrix arresting these, like, gay men, dragging them down the Runway, humiliated.

[Lauren Garone]

Respect to your Aunt Betty. This. They are Canada's greatest export.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They are. They really are. That show made me so happy, truly so happy.

[Lauren Garone]

It kind of surpasses trend. It, like, exists in its own level. And I think that people go to that show and they leave so happy. It makes you want to party. It makes you want to get up. It makes you want to do drugs. The show that they had with the twins, where they went into the machine and came out in a different outfit, it, like, to the George Michael song. It was all so genius. I don't know. There's something that they're doing. They have a joie de vivre that not everybody has because people take themselves so seriously. And when fashion can be fun, it often kind of reads as cheap. And so it's just so nice to see someone who's, like, having a blast and also spending money and also creating actually desirable clothes and accessories and hats and bags and sunglasses and wallets and G strings and handcuffs and whatever else. When there were all these designers in the mix for Chanel, I did want D Squared to take over Chanel.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, they would turn it out.

[Lauren Garone]

And I knew that it was time for their comeback back again. These brands need to call Me, I know what to do.

[Chelsea Fairless]

D Squared with a Chanel budget, like, what couldn't they do?

[Lauren Garone]

Double Cs, double Ds.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They'd land on the moon for their fashion show. What? D Squared is doing so well. I think a lot of brands, especially when they've been around for long, as D Squared has, it's like they can't see the forest for the trees. They can't figure out what's good about the brand. They can't figure out what maybe a younger consumer or a new consumer might care about in the brand.

[Lauren Garone]

Can I make a really dark analogy?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure.

[Lauren Garone]

I remember reading an interview with the actor Nick Stahl. He was big in the 2000s. He became a terrible drug addict and became homeless and then came back from it. And now he's acting again and he's sober. By the grace of God, he survived. And he gave an interview and he said something in it that stuck with me, and it is a little bit blue jasmine. But he was like, you don't just, like, get really into drugs and wind up on a park bench. He's like, you get there one day at a time, you know, and he was sort of like. And by the time you're in it, you don't know how to get out of it. And I feel like that's a lot of these brands. They're like the same. And pop stars.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You're right. It's one day at a time.

[Lauren Garone]

Artists do this because you keep trying to evolve. You can evolve, you can go down the wrong path, and then you don't even realize you're there or how you got there or how to get back out again. So when you see someone kind of pull themselves out and really, like, re embrace the thing that made them amazing in the first place, it's almost like a miracle.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Truly beautiful part of Milan Fashion Week that I didn't anticipate being quite so touched by. But to get away from Milan for a second, we're going to go all the way back to New York to the. To the other non Calvin Klein show which we want to talk about, which is Marc Jacobs. I just kind of want to have a general conversation about the state of this brand, because I think it's a really fascinating brand. And within my lifetime, I have seen this man move from being like a Bill Blass type designer to a Rei Kawakubo type designer. And I think it's fascinating. But let's get into the bulbous collection.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Yeah. You're talking about how it's firmly become his Thing to make exaggerated doll clothing for. For people who read Dar writes the Lonely Doll too many times, I think.

[Lauren Garone]

To what you were saying a second ago, the reason why Mark can get away with this is because he's always been an alternative girl. You know, he's given us very exaggerated, very cartoony moments, like even when he was at Louis Vuitton. And so nothing ever feels out of character for him. He's sort of one of the only designers that can get away with doing something. Something very extreme, and then he can pull back and he can still release, like, a very everyday sort of product. I think that his brand is working because it has an interesting tension.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And I guess he can make these, like, crazy unwearable. Not that they're unwearable. They are. They're just, like, not really accessible to most people because they're only sold at Bergdorfs and, you know, all of that. But I guess he could do that because it's really about the perfume. It's about accessories, like, all the stuff he sells under the Marc Jacobs label, which is very different looking and maybe a bit more mass. And then, of course, there's Heaven. Oh, I forgot. Patrick was in the incredible Clout Bombing Heaven campaign a couple seasons ago.

[Lauren Garone]

I have clout, believe it or not.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You were on that very long couch.

[Lauren Garone]

That was a really cool campaign. Tara Reid was in it, which was personally thrilling. I was not there at the same time as her. It was shot by my friend, the incredible photographer, Eloise Perry. I was part of the team that worked on the first season of Heaven. So I was there at the start of it. I kind of helped launch it. So it was really sweet of them to ask me to be in the ad because that's also. The Marc Jacobs brand is very authentic. They put everything out there and everyone out there who works on stuff, and it feels very much like a community, which is a stupid buzzword that it seems like that's what every brand wants. But I think Marc Jacobs actually has it. I just love Marc Jacobs. I think he's like, there's so few, few role models in life as, like, an oddball, creative gay person. I've always just admired him so much. And so I remember the day that I got the call to work on a Marc Jacobs thing. I, like, almost started crying because I was just like. Like, he finally knows I exist, you know?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I get that. And I feel like it's designers like him and Isaac Mizrahi that really made me fall in love with fashion to begin with. I Think we both need the new Marc Jacobs camouflage hoodies. Have you seen this?

[Lauren Garone]

I can't go there. I don't love everything that the brand puts out. I just have to be honest about that. But, like, go off.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think it's so cute.

[Lauren Garone]

It feels collectible.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is collectible.

[Patrick Sandberg]

So it's a camo print for those who haven't seen it with his face in it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also want to say I appreciate the fact that they finally manufactured those, like, insane shoes that look like something that olive oil from Popeye would wear. Like, they made them, but they're like $400, which like, never happens in this landscape of luxury. Shoes that are all like suddenly like twelve hundred dollars.

[Lauren Garone]

But he has been in this mode of making these kind of like exaggerated doll clothes or like kind of of super womany, not. Not superhero esque. But like, the proportions are very, like, inhuman, kind of like ultra feminine, like caricaturistic avant garde clothes. And it reminds me a little bit of like a period. She kind of never got out of the period. But at the time it felt like a period where Reikawakubo was doing what they were calling non clothes as fashion. But it went for a while and then she kind of went back into another mode. Like it was like something she did for a few years and then stopped and then went back into doing a different kind of avant garde thing where I wonder if this is part of like a. The equivalent of a fashion like, trilogy where he's gonna do this for a minute and then move on to something else. I'm very curious how it will progress.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm curious too. But it's fascinating just how many sort of disparate comb eras he's even referencing within this one collection. Because on one hand you have the sort of the very cartoony, like, whatever that collection was, where they were all wearing Mickey Mouse ears. It very much feels like that in that sort of like, whimsical, childlike vibe. And then, yes, the flat collection, especially the dresses with the giant paillettes that are like, huge, is like such a overt reference to Comb. I just love that he is such a fan of fashion and, like, doesn't really care about referencing things so literally, but is also, of course, doing his own thing. And it warms my heart to see.

[Lauren Garone]

One of the last Mark shows that I went to was at the Armory. And he had a choreographer choreograph essentially like the streets of New York, but in this big black void. And everyone was watching from these little tables that were sort of like Cafe tables with chairs. And it was like the models were walking towards you, but there were people walking perpendicular to them wearing, like, clothes, like extras, like, in the New York street. You know, it's like, charging past, and the models were, like, slamming into them and walking by them. And it was, like, very cacophonist music. And it was really crazy. And those were all much more real clothes, you know, like wearable clothes. But it felt very high concept. At the the same time, it's been recent that he's gone to this level of, like, silhouette and almost borderline unwearable clothes. Clothes.

[Patrick Sandberg]

His Runway shows, which I think is really cool. And because he's done it now kind of three seasons in a row, I feel like there's an appetite for it. And I feel like there's more of a buyer and a client who would wear these out in the wild.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I'm just happy for him because it's like he's had to make very commercial clothes for a long time. And he clearly, like, had this side of himself that he was never really able to express in this way. And it's nice to see what is.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Mark's final form gonna be.

[Lauren Garone]

I think the Simpsons have to come up with it, and then it will come true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but I wanna get into one more show that really, like, the Marc Jacobs show was kind of all about body modification insanity, which was the Alaia Pool Noodle show. I will dub it.

[Patrick Sandberg]

There were a lot of looks that weren't just about exaggerating the hips, you know, by adding padding. It was a very distinct shape. And that shape was tubular and relatively thin.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. It was also about, like, not being able to move your arms.

[Lauren Garone]

It almost has become a cliche of, like, avant garde fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I don't think we've ever gotten an alias show that has been this avant garde.

[Lauren Garone]

No. And I do think that Duran is incredibly influential in this regard.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, we should talk about the elephant in the room. And that's also true of the Marc Jacobs show that we just talked about.

[Lauren Garone]

So there's this designer, Duran Lentink, and he does these, like, very extreme proportioned. They're conventional clothing items done in extreme proportions. So it would be like a pair of what would normally be, like, cut off denim shorts. And they are basically like an inner tube.

[Patrick Sandberg]

It'll be linked in our show notes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's very puffy. And I think the puffiness of it is what's so specific. And also the way that he makes pants and skirts and stuff that, like, fall away from the body in this very specific way that Alaia, like, kind of copied.

[Lauren Garone]

It happens very rarely. I'm trying to think of the last time that I saw this happen. I mean, people have copied Glenn Martens and what he did at Y Project. Everybody copied Demna. And I think that what Demna's done at Balenciaga is probably the most influential work a designer of our generation has ever done. That said, I think that Duron's clothes. It's remarkable how fast he's had such an enormous influence on so many designers, because you're seeing it everywhere. And part of that reason is because it's so genius. I think that with a lot of new designers, they often kind of come out of the gate trying to have a certain gimmick or something that they can own, whether it's to do with construction, whether it's having a signature print, you know, like someone like Maureen Sere has, or Nzi, the designer who does like, very skimpy lingerie and bras and underwear. What he does is not something that necessarily ever feels old because it has so many different applications. He's literally just about mutating volumes. And in his last two collections, I think he's shown all the different iterations that that can take. And it's actually quite inspiring that he's arrived at something that feels so uniquely his, yet so expandable. And I think designers are jealous, trying to jump on it and act like they came up with it. It's kind of amazing to watch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It is. But I've also heard these rumors that he is up for a job at Gaultier. And to me, it's unclear whether this is just, like, the latest guest designer or he is going to be, like, fully the creative director, which we obviously haven't had in years. But there were a lot of Gaultier isms in this collection, like the weird, like, interpretations of the fisherman sweater and the. The plaids and the trench coats and, like, all of that.

[Lauren Garone]

But you wonder if he's going to leave the kind of ownership of the proportion thing at his own label, if he's going to do that at Gaultier or if he's going to. We're going to see a different side of him at Gauthier, because it's sort of like what you see at these other brands that we've been talking about. You have to go in and you have to reference what came before you. So it would be nice to see a designer go into Gaultier and, like, really fuck it up.

[Patrick Sandberg]

But given Durin's impact, in other designers collections. Do you think that's why he did the stunt with the prosthetic fake tits towards the end of the show?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God. How have we not talked about the prosthetic tits?

[Lauren Garone]

He can get away with it or he can't. I mean, the Internet obviously had a field day with it. There were people pretending to be outraged.

[Chelsea Fairless]

By the giant fake tits.

[Lauren Garone]

Yeah. If you are genuinely outraged by it, God bless you.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Given his impact, it does feel more. I know, a lot. Some people thought it was misogynistic, but it feels less like a. An attempt at misogyny and more. If you're really gonna ape my style, why don't you try to ape this?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think we should clarify for people that have not seen this. It was a male model that wore this giant pair of beautiful silicone tits down the Runway.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Pendulous bosom slapping back and forth.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, a lot of people were offended by it, but I think that, like, when people see giant tits, I think they either read it as pornographic or, like, high camp. And I think on some level, this sort of outrage might speak to just how people interpret the body. Also, I think he's an equal opportunity offender. Right. Because the first look from this collection was a male contoured chest, like a silicone chest, like on a woman or on a female model.

[Lauren Garone]

Well, the critics ignored the first look or maybe didn't see it, which is not dissimilar from what you see worn on Drag Race every Friday night. It's a little garden variety for it to have caused such a stir, but actually, I think that's why it was smart, because it brought the label so much more attention than it would have gotten. I'm surprised that the response to it also, Akeem Smith, the stylist, has been wearing fake silicone torsos, male and female, and the giant boobs for a while. So it also felt like kind of directly inspired by him. So I just feel like we should shout out, Akeem.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Love, Akeem.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Well, this stunt got on the radar of Republicans, so I feel like it did. Yes.

[Lauren Garone]

Then everybody wins.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Lauren Garone]

It's a win for fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But.

[Lauren Garone]

But anybody that was, like, you know, at best perplexed, at worst offended by this, if you saw it or if you haven't seen it, I would encourage you to go look at the entire collection. And then I would encourage you to go look at his past collections to understand what we're talking about, because this is a designer that's actually not that provocative, in my opinion. But is like, incredibly technically talented and pushing things forward in an interesting way. And you're going to start seeing it trickle across so many other brands.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Someone who was offended by this look was our beloved Dilara Findakulu. Well, she took to Instagram stories to say, disappointed to see mockery of the female body by a young male designer that I actually love and respected. Honestly, it's so tiring to see men still using our bodies in this medieval mindset. It's ours to do with whatever we.

[Lauren Garone]

Want with it, so do whatever you want with it. What do you want anybody to say? No one's taking your rights away from you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I feel newly inspired to wear a giant pair of, like, silicone tits.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I've been inspired to wear prosthetic tits ever since I saw the substance and immediately had to Google and make sure those weren't Margaret Qualley's perfect boobs. Those were prosthetics.

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, they were?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren Garone]

I thought they were just color corrected.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, no. You can't be that skinny and that toned and have boobs like that, Patrick.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, think about, like, what all those Chanel girls look like. Like, they have, like, flat chests so that the clothes just hang. Like, they don't have these, like, substance jugs.

[Lauren Garone]

I don't notice women's bodies. You're all beautiful.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Thanks. Do you have thoughts about Dilara's collection?

[Lauren Garone]

Well, Dilara's collection was also styled by Haley Wallins, who we previously hailed as.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A genius who is killing it, truly.

[Lauren Garone]

And I think it was really cool. I think that Dilara makes very moody, very exciting looks. I don't understand it as a, I guess, like, a fashion proposition because they do remind me a bit of, like, costume design. Like, they're designed to be worn once on a special occasion where you're getting your picture taken a lot. You know, everybody wants her to have a brand, and I think it's because she's so creative and she's so beloved that you want to see her with more budget and you want to see her expand into, like, a wardrobe. And that's. This is also why I think she would be a really good guest designer for Gaultier, because she would get to also make these, like, very precious couture looks. A few years ago, she came out with a swimwear collection, which Haley styled in a lookbook that was shot by Yorgos Lanthimos. That stood out to me because it had a bunch of other things in it, like jeans and accessories. And I was like, oh, this is so cool. It feels like D Lara's figuring out how to make her brand sustainable in the future and sell and, you know, expand. And I haven't seen that so much recently. And so I. You know, I don't want her to go out of business for being too niche, but I appreciate the niche ness, for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I get it. We can't all wear these upcycled shell corsets every single day. But I feel like the bread and butter of her business kind of is and should be the bustier dress. Kind of what Dolce and Gabbana has always done, selling this. Same. Same with Vivienne Westwood, right? The corsets, the bustier dresses. And I think the swimwear was smart, and it was very different than what I've seen other people do. I don't know if you can, like, necessarily jump in a pool in a swimsuit that's covered in chains and charms and things, but it looks amazing.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, but her swimming suits are meant for pale girls like us that aren't actually going to get into the swimming pool, are just going to stand next to the swimming pool.

[Lauren Garone]

But here's the thing. It's like, Vivian Westwood is a really good comp. If I were her, or I were. If I was working with her, I would look at brands like Rick Owens, Vivian Westwood, Comme des Garcon, where they've sort of been the pinnacle of avant garde while also creating some of the most like lucrative and sustainable independent fashion businesses that we've seen, because it is about having products beyond this kind of theatrical proposition. When I see her on my shows, I'm like, it's beautiful. But I also, like, in a weird way, I don't understand it. Like, I don't understand how she keeps.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, because it's one on one. Well, she does do, like, a ton of customs for celebrities at this point. I think that that is actually how the business is probably sustained for the most part.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Didn't she do Kendall and Kylie's Sugar and Spice for Batman Forever Halloween costumes?

[Lauren Garone]

Oh, wow. I mean, listen, money's not everything, and, like, you don't have to have a booming business. And I don't want to sound so, like, capitalistic and American when I talk about these people like this, but I'm like, I don't know what's preventing her from having, like, the fabest sunglasses or the stinkest bag, you know, I think she has all of that in her. And so I'm like, like, come on, give it to us.

[Patrick Sandberg]

No, this is a worthwhile conversation because in the Vogue Runway, show notes. The first line is about how she literally did not have a Runway location until a week before the show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. But that's just like being a young fashion designer.

[Lauren Garone]

I think, you know, I'm rooting for her. I think it's great that she has Haley on board, and Haley obviously brought back D Squared and turned them into the bonanza of the year. So hopefully something can happen over at Dilara, because Dilara has many fans.

[Patrick Sandberg]

We are two of them, and I love that with each collection, she continues to develop her worldview, which is a little scary, a little slutty, romantic in a Dickensian way.

[Lauren Garone]

She's leaving money on the table. It actually is driving me crazy. I'm turning into Kris Jenner about it. I'm like, there are so many people that want to buy her stuff. If there was something to buy, everybody would buy it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, there are swimsuits and there are T shirt. Like, she does sell clothes on her website, which a lot of young designers don't do at all.

[Patrick Sandberg]

That's true. She's figured out how to set up that Instagram shop with the correct proportion thumbnails, which we haven't been able to grasp.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, we can't do that shit.

[Lauren Garone]

And you know who I love who's of a similar vein, but I think who's, like, a little more on it commercially is Mo Alola.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah, she's great. But she's very on it in terms of making the kind of clothes that are easy to buy and having really great ecom and econ photography and just the whole thing.

[Patrick Sandberg]

What do we think these fall winter collections were trying to say about the state of the world? And I. I typically hate that question because I'm like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was about to say, lauren, I'm gonna kill you for that.

[Patrick Sandberg]

I'm typically someone who's like, fashion is just fashion, but it really feels like the sentiment of these collections are, we can't trust that our infrastructural systems, like heat and power, might work by the end of the year. So you need to be layered. You need offensive clothing that is very voluminous and bulbous, and you need to be wearing a lot of fur to keep warm.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Truly, it's like every gown also looks like a blanket these days.

[Lauren Garone]

It's a little bit like the world is ending. So have a good time. People are kind of disappearing into fantasy and dreams right now, which is a nice reprieve, in my opinion, from the kind of boring, safe. What was the term? Quiet luxury? Like, I'm. I feel like that's over. I think things are getting weirder and more bizarre. I think people don't care anymore. I think everything is no longer political. Everyone just wants to be themselves and live their lives. And I'm getting a lot of, like, I'm gonna be me and I'm gonna be a freak.

[Patrick Sandberg]

Paws up, dear listener. If you can imagine, we do have even more thoughts about Fashion Month, but we're gonna take it to our VIP channels. We'll be talking about London, we'll be talking about Milan, and we'll be talking about Paris with Patrick.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We're keeping Patrick captive in Lauren's closet for some even hotter takes. So join us if you want. Otherwise, fuck off. Just kidding. We love you. Thank you for listening.

[Patrick Sandberg]

All right, we'll be back next week. Patrick, thank you for joining us.

[Lauren Garone]

We're pregnant. We're having a baby. As Charlotte York once said, that was beautiful.

[Patrick Sandberg]

All right, guys, we'll see you next week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Bye.