228: On And Just Like That: Silent Mode (Feat. Gabriel Held & Queenie Sateen)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Every Outfit – Episode 228: "On And Just Like That: Silent Mode" (Feat. Gabriel Held & Queenie Satine)

Release Date: July 5, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 228 of the Every Outfit podcast titled "On And Just Like That: Silent Mode," hosts Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni delve into the latest developments of the popular series And Just Like That. Joined by special guests Gabriel Held and Queenie Satine—two of New York’s most stylish personalities—the episode offers a comprehensive recap of episode six, "Silent Mode," while also exploring broader themes in fashion and popular culture.

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Recap of "And Just Like That" Episode Six: "Silent Mode"

Aiden's Infidelity and Relationship Dynamics

The discussion kicks off with Gabriel Held highlighting the progression of the love triangle involving Carrie, Aiden, and Duncan:

Gabriel Held [00:56]: "It feels like we know where the season is going, at least for Carrie, and I think we have an honest to goodness love triangle going on."

Chelsea echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the nuanced portrayal of relationships:

Chelsea Fairless [01:23]: "I feel like this is the most important episode that we've gotten since the first episode this season."

The hosts dissect Aiden’s controversial actions, including his infidelity with Kathy, which marks a significant shift in his character development:

Chelsea Fairless [08:35]: "She immediately apologized, was like, I will take care of this."

Gabriel Held [11:06]: "Aiden and his situation is so nonsensical. But fine. I'm glad we are finally in episode six addressing how ridiculous their situation is."

Miranda and Seema's Plotline: Apartment Hunting and Financial Struggles

The conversation transitions to Miranda (LTW) and Seema’s storyline, focusing on their struggles with finding pet-friendly apartments and financial constraints:

Queenie Satine [14:03]: "But it is 150 over asking, so Miranda declines."

Chelsea Fairless [15:30]: "Miranda did introduce Joy to Brady, which seemed a little soon to me."

They explore the themes of work-life balance and the repercussions of LTW’s decision to keep her phone on silent, leading to missing critical personal moments:

Gabriel Held [16:56]: "She's dealing with the struggle of being pulled between her family life and her work life."

Chelsea Fairless [17:00]: "It’s sadistic. What happens to LTW?"

Funeral Scene Dynamics and Character Interactions

The hosts analyze the emotionally charged funeral scene of LTW’s father, noting the presence of multiple characters and the lack of genuine interaction from some:

Queenie Satine [20:42]: "It was giving a black Camelot vibe for sure."

Gabriel Held [22:25]: "Well, LTW is very busy. She has a lot going on with her documentary."

The discussion highlights the superficial nature of some character interactions at the funeral:

Queenie Satine [22:37]: "All of Carrie, nor Miranda, nor Anthony, nor Giuseppe, who are in the third and fourth row, shout out their memories because they don't have any with LTW's father."

Charlotte and Harry’s Subplot: Health Struggles and Friendship

The episode further delves into Charlotte’s challenges as she supports Harry through his prostate cancer diagnosis. This subplot is compared to past dynamics in Sex and the City, showcasing character growth:

Chelsea Fairless [28:03]: "She had to act as a vault for Charlotte, providing emotional support during her crisis."

Queenie Satine [28:11]: "I found this very upsetting because I feel so bad for Charlotte."

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Special Guests: Gabriel Held & Queenie Satine

Introductions and Backgrounds

Chelsea introduces Gabriel Held and Queenie Satine, emphasizing their fashion expertise and long-standing friendship:

Chelsea Fairless [30:11]: "But I will be back with a very special guest... Gabriel Held and Queenie Satine."

Gabriel and Queenie share anecdotes about their 20+ years of friendship, setting the stage for an engaging discussion on fashion and personal style.

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Fashion Collecting and Recent Purchases

Guest's Latest Fashion Acquisitions

Gabriel and Queenie delve into their latest fashion purchases, showcasing their unique styles and passion for high-end brands:

Lauren Garrone [39:46]: "I'm back in New York... trying to get the Manolo rainbow."

Queenie Satine [41:08]: "But I bought them from Ranjana Khan. And let's drop a photo here because they're quite extravagant and psycho."

They discuss their fondness for brands like Manolo Blahnik, reflecting on their personal collections and the stories behind each piece.

Chelsea's Fashion Finds

Chelsea shares her recent fashion purchases, highlighting the eclectic and bold choices that define her style:

Chelsea Fairless [44:23]: "I got this at the Loewe outlet in Cabazon... the handbag and both of the shirts."

The conversation underscores the personal connection each host and guest has with their fashion items, blending functionality with high fashion aesthetics.

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Discussion on Recent Fashion Shows

Marc Jacobs’ New York Show

The guests provide a critical analysis of Marc Jacobs' latest show, noting the oversized proportions and doll-like elements:

Queenie Satine [52:57]: "Both in terms of thoughts and just the general presentation."

Lauren Garrone [53:23]: "I don't know what would you say, like, 30 years until, like, five years ago."

Dior Men's Fashion Week

The recap includes thoughts on Dior's Men's Fashion Week, with comparisons to past collections and ongoing themes:

Queenie Satine [63:16]: "Laurie from Little Women by way of 80s Ralph Lauren Polo and Calvin Klein jeans..."

Chelsea Fairless [63:19]: "I liked it."

Prada Men's Show

Prada’s latest men's show is discussed, focusing on the bold styling choices and their impact on contemporary fashion:

Queenie Satine [63:31]: "I think Carrie would wear one, certainly."

Lauren Garrone [64:21]: "Like, khaki diapers and, like, trench coats. Button to the top."

Telfar's 20th Anniversary Show

Celebrating Telfar’s two-decade milestone, the conversation praises the brand’s commitment to accessibility and functionality:

Queenie Satine [78:53]: "But kudos on 20 years. That's really, like, at our age, that's impressive."

Lauren Garrone [80:17]: "Literally, it's like, a new standard, which is really cool."

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Documentaries Highlighted

"My Mom Jane" – Mariska Hargitay’s Documentary

The hosts discuss My Mom Jane, a documentary by Mariska Hargitay exploring the life of her mother, Jayne Mansfield:

Chelsea Fairless [82:33]: "Especially, like, I know you're such an SVU fan."

Queenie Satine [85:10]: "In her, I feel like.

The documentary’s impact on Mariska’s personal and professional life is examined, drawing parallels between her mother’s struggles and her own character in SVU.

"Enygma" – Amanda Lear and April Ashley

Enygma, a documentary directed by Zachary Drucker, delves into the lives of pioneering trans women Amanda Lear and April Ashley. The discussion highlights the complexities of their relationship and their respective journeys:

Queenie Satine [99:57]: "It was a lot for people to process."

Lauren Garrone [102:27]: "But this is really the only thing that she's done that has been sort of outside of that for, like, a long time herself."

The hosts commend the documentary for shedding light on historical trans narratives and the challenges faced by Amanda Lear and April Ashley.

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Fashion Reflections and Cultural Impact

Influence of "Sex and the City" on Personal Style

Gabriel and Queenie reflect on how Sex and the City has influenced their fashion sensibilities, particularly the high-low mix and iconic accessories:

Queenie Satine [35:43]: "The high low mix. That certainly became a governing principle in my approach to styling."

Chelsea Fairless [35:40]: "You’re wearing a nameplate necklace... Carrie confirmed."

The conversation underscores the lasting legacy of the show in shaping contemporary fashion trends and personal wardrobes.

Collecting and Wearing Iconic Pieces

The guests discuss the importance of collecting and owning iconic fashion pieces, from Manolo Blahniks to limited-edition collaborations:

Queenie Satine [41:08]: "But I bought them from Ranjana Khan. And let's drop a photo here because they're quite extravagant and psycho."

Lauren Garrone [43:37]: "So good."

Their enthusiasm for high fashion and unique pieces highlights the intersection of personal passion and professional involvement in the fashion industry.

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Conclusion

Episode 228 of Every Outfit masterfully intertwines a detailed recap of And Just Like That with in-depth discussions on fashion trends, personal style, and influential documentaries. With the insightful contributions of Gabriel Held and Queenie Satine, listeners gain a multifaceted perspective on how popular culture and fashion continually shape and redefine each other. The episode concludes on a heartfelt note, celebrating enduring friendships and the ever-evolving landscape of fashion.

Chelsea Fairless [113:21]: "We love you, Lauren. And to everyone else, bye bye. We will see you next week."

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This episode of Every Outfit serves as both a nostalgic look back at beloved TV narratives and a forward-thinking exploration of current and emerging trends in the fashion world, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts eager to stay connected with both on-screen and real-world style evolutions.

Transcript

[Gabriel Held]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[Queenie Satine]

Time to buy our whole dress. The Sting breakdown.

[Gabriel Held]

Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't. Hi, my name is Chelsea Fairless. Welcome to the Every Outfit podcast. You are about to hear a recap of the latest episode of and Just like that, which was record before my co host, Lauren Garrone went on maternity leave. And after that, I will be joined by two of the most stylish New Yorkers, Gabriel Held in Queenie Sateen for a chat about Lauren Sanchez's bridal look, Men's Fashion Week, and so much more.

[Gabriel Held]

Here we go, Chelsea. We made it to episode six. The episode title is Silent Mode. And remind me, who directed and wrote this episode?

[Chelsea Fairless]

This was directed by Julie Rotenberg, written by Susan Fales Hill. Is this the first episode that Julia's directed? Because we know she's written so many episodes of. And just like that, she directed the.

[Gabriel Held]

Last episode as well. So good for her. She is on a run, even though there is a very bizarre editing choice towards the end of the episode. But whatever. Let me not start with nitpicks, because you might be shocked to hear that. Chelsea, I like this episode.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I feel like this is the most important episode that we've gotten since the first episode this season.

[Gabriel Held]

It feels like we know where the season is going, at least for Carrie, and I think we have an honest to goodness love triangle going on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Thank God. But yes, this whole love triangle thing is starting to feel like its own movie within the show because it either takes place in the Gramercy apartment, which feels like its own world, doesn't really feel like it exists in New York and Virginia.

[Gabriel Held]

You are correct. This does feel like a BBC rom com that Miranda might be watching.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it fully feels British. And I don't think that the fact that Duncan is British is an accident.

[Gabriel Held]

Yeah, she dated a Brit. I don't think so. Only American boys for Carrie Bradshaw. That's where she's been going wrong. So we start the episode with Carrie having yet another meal with Duncan, this time. Well, I want to say at his place, but I guess his place in her townhouse.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're having an intimate mutton dinner and he wants Carrie to read the first chapter of his Margaret Thatcher biography because he needs a female perspective.

[Gabriel Held]

Yeah, he's basically, in a very suave, intellectual way, is like, I'm writing about bitches, man. I need a bitches perspective. Am I gay? Just the idea of, like sharing the first chapter of a Margaret Thatcher biography with Carrie Bradshaw, of all people, you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Must understand this crazy bitch. You're a woman.

[Gabriel Held]

To ask Carrie Bradshaw if he's getting the character of Margaret Thatcher correctly in a way that will resonate with other insane autobiography heads is just very funny to me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So Aiden calls Carrie and is like, girl, I'm coming to visit because by the grace of God, Wyatt has voluntarily agreed to go to a wilderness program.

[Gabriel Held]

I stand by what I said several episodes ago. That boy needs to be sent to a military school.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, he needs like the two month wilderness program.

[Gabriel Held]

Yeah. Also a wilderness program that lasts a week. In my head, where I thought this was going was like, oh, Wyatt yet again lies to his parents and he went to like, do ayahuasca somewhere.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That would be cool of him, but he doesn't seem that cool.

[Gabriel Held]

How do you feel about Aiden re entering the episodes? Because last week you were like, the last thing I want is any more Aiden.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, that is the case, but we can't avoid him. They have to break up. Something has to happen. I was horrified when I saw that he dried his toothbrush using a bath towel. Who does that?

[Gabriel Held]

Is that not what you're supposed to do?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Do you dry? Come on.

[Gabriel Held]

No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I didn't notice that because I was more taken with. At the top of this scene, I believe he's putting Rogaine on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I missed that. So Aiden comes to New York. He throws pebbles at Carrie's window and breaks it and she freaks out because of the glass. Again, I don't know how anyone is comfortable setting foot in this woman's home. It seems like she wants to be the only person there.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, she's doing her best work to be a spinster forever in this townhouse, this unfurnished townhouse. I love that Eden is like, it's our thing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Like if Ms. Havisham was actually just anal retentive.

[Gabriel Held]

I love that Aiden, in explaining why he was throwing pebbles, he's like. Like it's our thing. Which I think gives credence to what I said when we were discussing the trailer where I was like, I think this is a reference to Carrie throwing the pebble in season four at Aiden's apartment. So he comes down and then he does the same thing when they get back together in this episode. And it's like your thing from something you did 20 years ago once.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it was cute, but it was under pretty bad circumstances the first time.

[Gabriel Held]

By the way, if anyone is going to break something especially highly specific 19th century glass I would actually trust Aiden to fix it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. And he does his best. He tries to fix it.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, it's funny because Paul walked into the room while I was watching this and I explained what happened and he goes, well, why don't they just get a glazer? Which is what Aiden's solution is. And I said, because he can't get a glazer. Because Carrie loves this 1840s window because of the way that the light hits it perfectly, which then sets Aiden on a mission to search for period accurate windows to replace this window.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although we later realize that this is clearly motivated by something else.

[Gabriel Held]

I gotta tell you, Chelsea, if I had a low commitment long distance boyfriend, you know what the last thing I want to do on the one weekend he comes to visit me is having to do the emotional labor to make him feel better that he broke the glass in my very expensive apartment. And two, to make him feel better that his son had a meltdown at the airport.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but Carrie is so bitchy about it that how could he not spiral? I'm fully on Aiden's side.

[Gabriel Held]

What a role reversal.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He immediately apologized, was like, I will take care of this.

[Gabriel Held]

Right. But he is also. They have such little time together to then put on her plate, like why it wouldn't get on the goddamn plane. Which question, did he get on the plane? Did they bring him back?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I have no idea if he got on the plane or not. I was confused by that.

[Gabriel Held]

At the very least, we know that Kathy was very upset, which Aiden also felt like it was his fault.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I feel like if he didn't get on the plane, then Aiden wouldn't have been able to come.

[Gabriel Held]

Right. And then what we learned later in the episode, which should we just get into, it absolutely wouldn't have happened. Which is, oh, Aiden and Kathy slept together.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I enjoy being shocked by this show and I didn't see it coming.

[Gabriel Held]

We can get into this now. When we received the screeners, we received a link that was like, just don't mention these things until they happen on the episode. And I can't help myself with spoilers. So I immediately opened that document.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Crazy for that.

[Gabriel Held]

And they were like, don't mention Aiden's infidelity until episode six. So when I saw in the episode that he was going to go down to Pennsylvania to go scope out some glass, I was like, he's fucking some arts and crafts woman. I could have predicted that it was Kathy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, yeah, because what kind of dark and depraved grief sex did they have after this incident with Wyatt and was.

[Gabriel Held]

It in the pickup truck?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Was Wyatt still in the house?

[Gabriel Held]

Did they do it in his jerk shack? AKA his pickup truck? Inquiring minds want to know. But instead we get this.

[Queenie Satine]

I'm so sorry I betrayed you.

[Lauren Garrone]

What?

[Chelsea Fairless]

What do you mean you betrayed me?

[Queenie Satine]

Cause we agreed to wait for each other and I slept with someone else.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I didn't agree to that.

[Queenie Satine]

What did you agree to?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That I would be here waiting till you could be with me.

[Queenie Satine]

And till then you could sleep with other people.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You expected me not to sleep with anyone else for five years?

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah, that's what I agreed to.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, that's what you agreed to. And even you couldn't do it. Yeah.

[Queenie Satine]

Cause I fucking broke our trust.

[Gabriel Held]

That's why we have been on Carrie Bradshaw all last episode and for the majority of this episode of how high strung and anti Carrie she's been. And I was very shocked to see what Kerry's reaction to Aiden's infidelity was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Same because this actually shows maturity and growth in Carrie Sex in the City. Carrie would never have this reaction. And honestly it would be completely fair if she wasn't so chill about this. This is fud up. I would be pissed because he has forced her into this fucked up long distance relationship and is now fucking his ex.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, again, with every episode and for the majority of season three that we've watched, I feel like there have been a lot of elements that have rhymed with the original series or kind of subtly referencing the original series because Aiden has this line where he's like, you wouldn't understand. And she's like, actually I do. Which felt like a reference to her affair with Big and her trying to convince Aiden in season three like it's never gonna happen again. Because that's what Aiden is trying to tell her of. Like, I fucked up once, but I'm never gonna sleep with her again. And Carrie's like, I get it. And then Carrie does something that shocks the shit out of Aiden, which is like, I didn't agree to be faithful for five years. Which was like, oh Carrie, thank God.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That I did not see coming.

[Gabriel Held]

And I wonder if she only feels safe enough to say that because now we have Duncan Reeves.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of course, if Aiden can fuck his ex wife, she can fuck her downstairs neighbor.

[Gabriel Held]

And she explains to Aiden like, I don't want to sleep with other people. I haven't, but I could.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it's a completely unreasonable thing for Aiden to ask of her to begin with.

[Gabriel Held]

Five years? Yes. Four years, Three years.

[Queenie Satine]

Two Years.

[Gabriel Held]

Even asking someone to wait for a year.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think a year is acceptable.

[Gabriel Held]

A year without knowing when you're going to see this person next. They don't even have quarterly visits. I'm still not sure why Aiden can't go up to New York on the weeks that he doesn't have Wyatt.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. Because they're not all living in the same house. He's by himself every other week.

[Gabriel Held]

And don't worry, Fuckettes. I remember from season two, Wyatt crashes the car on the week that Aiden didn't have him. And so that's why he feels like he needs to be there. But it's just. It's so nonsensical. But fine. I'm glad we are finally in episode six addressing how ridiculous their situation is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Gabriel Held]

And Carrie has this great line where she's like, it isn't so crazy that I, you know how easily I can get over you sleeping with Kathy. But like, isn't it insane that we have not talked about this until this very moment? Like what this. What we even agreed to?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I loved that. And then they make love and it actually looks hot. This is more sex than we've gotten from Carrie and Aiden all season.

[Gabriel Held]

And I think this is a testament to probably how much Sarah Jessica Parker enjoys working with John Corbett that she's willing to do this level of sex scene with a character for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So the next morning Aiden has to fly back to Virginia and he has a run in with Duncan in the very tiny kitchen and the love triangle is cemented.

[Gabriel Held]

That's right, because Duncan comes up through the spiral staircase and he gives the first chapter of his Margaret Thatcher biography to Aidan, explaining that Carrie agreed to read this. This is where there is also a very bizarre editing moment which is they show Duncan coming through the door, then the close up on Duncan is him in the doorway. I know this is a small thing. I just. Again, I made a very low budget film where we didn't have enough money or time. I. Why these things happen. I don't understand why they happen on very expensive shows. There had to have been another take. It's literally why you have a continuity person. But anyway, the episode ends with Aiden gone and Carrie seeing on their table Duncan's manuscript. Love it. Where is it going to go, Chell? We truly have no idea actually because this was the last of the screeners we got. So we're right there with you guys.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So moving on to Miranda and Seema. They have a plotline together in this episode.

[Gabriel Held]

I love this duo. More of this duo, please.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think it's a good combination of people. Seema is trying to find Miranda an apartment. She has been stained with Joy and the Italian greyhounds. In the meantime, even though Joy offers.

[Gabriel Held]

Her place for Miranda to stay in a more permanent fashion, Miranda's like, I can't be that lesbian cliche.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fair enough. So Seema finds her the perfect apartment.

[Gabriel Held]

A whisper listing, as she calls it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But it is 150 over asking, so Miranda declines.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, she refuses to pay 150,000 over asking because that's something Miranda does not do.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But then she ultimately does do it.

[Gabriel Held]

Spoiler alert.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So that's what happens there. Meanwhile, Seema's financial situation is even bleaker than we first thought. She can't afford her driver anymore. Sure. But she also can't afford the lease on her car, which is tax deductible.

[Gabriel Held]

Thank you for letting the Fuckettes know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm just saying.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, yeah, she's in her chauffeured car, being very emo. We learn it's their last ride together. But even worse than, she can no longer pay her chauffeur, so she has to break up with him, but then tells him that he's the one that has to turn in the leased car. And when you turn in the car, do you mind taking my personalized license plates with you?

[Chelsea Fairless]

So depressing. So that's basically all that happens with Seema in this episode. Also, Miranda did introduce Joy to Brady, which seemed a little soon to me. I would introduce her to Carrie before I'd introduce her to Brady, but that's just me. Although Brady is great. The perfect amount of Brady, because Brady's.

[Gabriel Held]

Also not being a bad vibe. So we get this moment towards the end of the episode where Miranda and Joy are at a bar and Joy is sort of explaining, I've never dated a woman with a child before, which, I mean, he's a fully grown adult at this point. It's not like a five year old that you're going to have to integrate and potentially live with.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Did she say that or didn't she say, like, I'm always awkward with people's kids?

[Gabriel Held]

Yes. She was like, you know, the way that you are with my dogs, I'm that way with children. Which I was like, what?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's true. Brady is not a child. He is a whole ass man.

[Gabriel Held]

And her fears are quickly assuaged by the fact that Brady's really good with her Italian greyhound. So she's like, you know what? Actually, never mind. I take back what I said about people's kids and everything's great. And you're right. This is what prompts Miranda to pay 150,000 over asking. Because the only other apartment that Seema shows her is one that has a no pet policy. Because that was the other thing. When she sees the first apartment, there are yapping dogs. But now that she sees a future with a woman with her own yapping dog, she's fine to pay over asking.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Makes sense. So LTW had a lot to do in this episode.

[Gabriel Held]

I'm still not sure what we're trying to say with ltw.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, LTW is less of a character and more of, like, an embodiment of the struggle of, like, being pulled between your family life and your work life. And it really just, like, hit a fever pitch in this particular episode.

[Gabriel Held]

She's a cautionary tale to the third wave feminism idea that women can have it all.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, this episode very explicitly stated that actually, you can't have it all because if you put your phone on silent mode to work, you may never be able to say goodbye to one of your parents. It's very sadistic. What happens to ltw? God forbid. She vibes with her hot editor for two seconds, which she learns that he.

[Gabriel Held]

Is married as well, which he previously didn't reveal because he doesn't like to mix his personal life with business.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's just weird, though.

[Gabriel Held]

Yeah. If you're spending 17 hours a day with someone traveling with them, you can let them know that you are married. Yeah. So her kids keep bothering her. So she does, as she calls it, the original sin of a parent, which is putting your phone on silent. And Herbert shows up to the editing room to let her know that her dad died and that they were trying to reach her and that he had a stroke. And she's like, great, let's go to the hospital. He's like, it's too late. You know why? Because your phone was on do not disturb. I'm like, again, this goes back to the previous episode where it's like, this man is just gaslighting her. Like, LTW's plotline, if you take it out of the context of it, just like that, is some weird psychological thriller where her husband is trying to destroy her life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I don't think so. Herbert is kind of the heroic figure in this episode in a lot of ways, but we'll get to that in a bit. First, we have to discuss the addition of Jennifer Lewis. So we're down one side character in the LTW world, but they had to add one more. Also, I think it is worth mentioning that they literally brought ltw's father back from the dead only to kill him again. As if it is practical magic.

[Gabriel Held]

Yes. I was waiting to have this discussion, which it feels that way with Harry's prostate cancer as well. Of like you sort of teased a prostate issue last season and we're like, never mind. Now he has prostate cancer. You tell us in season one that her father's dead, then he's undead. Now he's really dead. This is where I got very confused because ltw's having this emotional moment where she calls Charlotte and tells her what happened to her father. Then she opens an email with her father's photo and I was like, oh, he runs a theater. Was this a bit of performance art? Like, is he not actually dead? Is he doing one of those things where he's still alive but he's having a memorial so people can eulogize him when he's alive? No.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, like what happened to Jessa on Girls?

[Gabriel Held]

Yes, but no. LTW's father's theater manager slash girlfriend, played by Jennifer Lewis.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Gabriel Held]

I was getting couple vibes. Oh, for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They definitely had some sort of thing going on.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, he got her that Michael Kors bag.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She is throwing the funeral. This pisses ltw off. So she goes to some sort of New Jersey diner to talk to her.

[Gabriel Held]

We are anywhere but Manhattan this season. And I say this as someone that was born and their entire family is from New Jersey. Stay out of the tri state area. Go back to Manhattan.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So they spar over this funeral, but LTW still allows her to throw it, basically.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, LTW is very busy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's true. She has a lot going on with her documentary. So cut to the funeral. The whole crew comes. LTW and her kids are rocking these very chic mid century funeral looks. Possibly Dior.

[Gabriel Held]

It was giving a black Camelot vibe for sure. So you're right. Everybody comes to this funeral. And I mean everybody. Anthony's there, Giuseppe's there. Aiden is there in a very ill fitting suit. We should note for those who are not watching the show, but follow our account. These were the paparazzi photos that we felt were either legitimately a funeral or perhaps they were fooling us. And maybe this was Carrie and Aiden's wedding.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Gabriel Held]

Very happy to see that this was actually a funeral. And the gag is that Aiden didn't have a suit. The big and tall store they remembered on one block doesn't exist anymore. And so he's wearing a teeny Tiny suit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And there's not another store in all of Manhattan caters to tall gentlemen. But whatever. When I was watching Jennifer Lewis perform a song from Pippin, I was like, what show am I watching right now? How did I get here?

[Gabriel Held]

I had that moment just because all of Charlotte and Carrie's crew has prime seating ahead of what you imagine LTW's own blood relatives have, which is so bizarre to me because it made me think of Miranda's mother's funeral where you see that Aiden and Steve show up and they are in the back of the church where they should be. They don't know these people.

[Lauren Garrone]

Why?

[Gabriel Held]

Why is Giuseppe in the third row? It's not right, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So LTW breaks down when she's giving her eulogy and Herbert rescues her.

[Gabriel Held]

All right, I take back what I said. Maybe Herbert isn't Julia Roberts husband and sleeping with an enemy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sleeping with the enemy.

[Gabriel Held]

I was sleeping with the enemy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Tried to rewatch that movie kind of recently on a plane. Very upsetting. More so than I remember. But anyway, we don't get thrillers about domestic violence like we used to for good reason.

[Gabriel Held]

But Herbert is not any of these men. He comes to LTW's rescue. He talks about all the productions that he had to witness of LTW's father. People from the crowd shout out their memory of LTW's father. Of course, Carrie, nor Miranda, nor Anthony, nor Giuseppe, who are in the third and fourth row, shout out their memories because they don't have any with LTW's father.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But not really much happens at this funeral. It wraps up. LTW's mother in law is. Is nice for once and basically says, girl, don't feel bad about the fact that you missed his death. Maybe he didn't want you to see him like that, etc. So we shall see if this drives her into the arms of her hot editor or not. I'm guessing yes.

[Gabriel Held]

Well, we're hoping yes. Again, this isn't just like that. We could learn their secret siblings or something. I assume you want to move on to Charlotte and you don't want to spend any time discussing the comedy bit. I'll put that in quotes. Of Aiden sitting in his too small of suit suit so it rips in his pants.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Let's move on, please. Let's move on to the cancer clinic with Bitsy Von Muffling.

[Gabriel Held]

This is the first time we're getting Bitsy Von Muffling this season, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Gabriel Held]

She showed up so many times in season two, I'm like, wait, hold on. Have we seen her before? So Charlotte is heading into Memorial Sloan Kettering, although, to be fair, she's simply walking past the doors as Bitsy Von Muffling is coming out. And Bitsy clocks her and is like, oh, are you going in to visit someone? It's like Charlotte immediately, like, folds and panics where Charlotte is not even through the doorway. She could be like, no, I'm just walking on 68th street or wherever it is. But whatever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She lies and says she's volunteering and.

[Gabriel Held]

Tries to distract Bitsy Von Muffling from asking more questions by being like, oh, I guess I'll see you at the Tiffany event later this week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And Bitsy gets a little flustered because she obviously hasn't been invited. So Harry has his appointment. He is understandably stressed about the potential erectile dysfunction and bowel issues that can result from the surgery that is required to eliminate his prostate cancer. But he decides to do it.

[Gabriel Held]

Yes, there is a touching, funny moment when Charlotte reveals that LTW's father has passed away. Because Harry's trying to reassure Charlotte that he's absolutely fine. And Charlotte's like, but ltw's father was fine. And he's like, well, was it sudden? He died at 90. That's not gonna be me. But the reason I wanted to bring up this scene is it's yet another I felt reference to a Sex and the City scene, which is he's watching a baseball game that he refuses to take his eyes off of. Which reminds me of in Season six when Charlotte makes her first dinner for Harry and he won't stop watching the Yankees or the Mets, which he basically does in this scene as well, where, like, Charlotte's visibly upset and crying, and he's like, I get it. I need you to be Pollyanna. Also, I'm not gonna die, but I could die. So therefore, I'm gonna keep watching this Mets game.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm on Harry's side. That would be a lot to deal with. So Charlotte and Carrie do go to this Tiffany event together, which is in the beautiful new flagship on Madison Avenue.

[Gabriel Held]

Although we don't get past the lobby.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, we don't actually see the event. As always. There's, like, two extras milling in the background of a Carrie and Charlotte scene.

[Gabriel Held]

Absolutely. And then Charlotte, panic, tells Bitsy about a boat party that clearly Bitsy Von Muffling was not invited to.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I didn't really get that whole thing, but, yeah, they brought Bitsy back. And she did look great in both scenes.

[Gabriel Held]

That actress always looks fabulous.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Julie Halston. So at the very end of this episode, Carrie is at the drugstore buying Tums. Did we mention that Carrie constantly is eating Tums on this show?

[Gabriel Held]

Well, she's constantly eating Tums throughout this episode because Duncan Reeves mutton stew was so awful that she needs heartburn medication of some sort. Although it's so prevalent the days or perhaps a week later she's still suffering the effects of Duncan's food. Whatever. Not the point of this scene, no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She sees Charlotte buying adult diapers.

[Gabriel Held]

Charlotte, What.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What are you doing down here?

[Gabriel Held]

What?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Why? Why are you holding adult male?

[Queenie Satine]

Depends.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Harry has prostate cancer. He doesn't want anyone to know or to find out.

[Lauren Garrone]

So that's why I'm all the way down here.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And please forget that I told you. I'm only telling you because, as you saw, the depend. Honey, honey, here, sweetie, look at me. You tell me anything, all right? Any thought, big or small.

[Gabriel Held]

I will not tell a soul.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I promise. I'm your vault. They found her early, but I can't.

[Gabriel Held]

Stop thinking that he's gonna die.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's why I've been such a mess.

[Gabriel Held]

This was very heartwarming.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if it was heartwarming. It made me cry. I mean, it's heartwarming to see Carrie be a good friend to Charlotte.

[Gabriel Held]

That's more what I mean. To see Carrie, who we've only witnessed, be very self indulgent or very anal retentive for the bulk of this season, to see her get outside of herself, to call herself a vault to let Charlotte know that she can rely on her and none of this is going to get out was very heartwarming to see. Of course, you know, it's the world of Sex in the City, so we gotta throw in some adult diapers to make it funny.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I found this very upsetting because I feel so bad for Charlotte. I'm glad that Kristen Davis is getting the writing that she deserves and that she gets this great big emotional scene, but very upsetting.

[Gabriel Held]

Do we think that they're gonna kill Harry?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think so.

[Gabriel Held]

We can't have two funerals in one season.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think they'll kill Harry. I don't think they will. I think if they were gonna kill him, they would give him a scarier kind of cancer.

[Gabriel Held]

Or is it gonna be a sort of coming home, breaking the wave situation where Harry does have erectile dysfunction issues. And so then it becomes this kind of like, willful cucking thing where he wants Charlotte to experience pleasure with Other men while he watches.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That would be so deeply upsetting. All right, what's your end? Just like that.

[Gabriel Held]

And just like that, I realized life was as fragile as my 1840s windows.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, that's good.

[Gabriel Held]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm going with. And just like that, Charlotte found a shoulder to cry on. I know that that is a mediocre and just like that, but we've experienced worse because the only other option is. And just like that, Charlotte bought adult diapers.

[Gabriel Held]

I was gonna say. Yeah. I admire your restraint for not going with that. All right, guys, that does it for the recap. Will I be back on the podcast next week? We don't know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We do not know. But I will be back with a very special guest. Right now, guys, I'm very excited about this week's guest hosts. He is a stylist and a vintage archivist. She is a musician and an it girl, and between the two of them, they have more Dior saddlebags than Carrie Bradshaw. Welcome to the show. Gabriel Held and Queenie Satine.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, my God, I'm so honored to be here on my favorite podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, thank you, honey.

[Queenie Satine]

And the honor is all mine, actually.

[Lauren Garrone]

Especially with Ms. Held.

[Queenie Satine]

We go back. We'll get into that.

[Gabriel Held]

We really do.

[Queenie Satine]

We won't go there. Well, we can.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, we really go back too. Like, I've known you for, like, I don't even know.

[Queenie Satine]

It's been 20, 21 years, I think.

[Lauren Garrone]

Since we first met.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A long time. Like, I think I was still a teenager. Maybe when I met you.

[Queenie Satine]

We might have been 19.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So crazy.

[Lauren Garrone]

Was it delusional Downtown divas era?

[Queenie Satine]

No, I was actually, like, 22 when we did that. Okay, but we won't go there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sorry.

[Queenie Satine]

We can.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We should. And we might later in the episode. So I ask every single guest this, but which Sex in the City character do you most identify with?

[Queenie Satine]

Would you like to take this?

[Lauren Garrone]

Oof. I really feel like I'm a Carrie Samantha hybrid. I even have some of Carrie's less favorable qualities. You know, I can be kind of self absorbed, so. But, yeah, I got a Manolo collection to match. And you?

[Queenie Satine]

My senior quote was, all these years, I thought I was a Carrie. I was actually a Miranda eating cake out of the garbage. Which, though, in my, like, more advanced years, I realize I am a Carrie. Like, a friend's boyfriend clocked me really hard one time, was like, speaking about girlfriends and was like, I know you think you're Amaya, but you're a Joan. And Joan is the Carrie of Girlfriends like neurotic. A little hand wringing. But maybe the best dressed.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So well, I know you're a Carrie because you're wearing a nameplate necklace, a Versace nameplate necklace that says Donatella.

[Lauren Garrone]

So good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So Carrie confirmed.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, can I interject?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Queenie Satine]

So I actually met SJP at Dean and DeLuca when I was working at this store called INA. Of course. Maybe 15, 16 years old.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow.

[Queenie Satine]

And I saw her. She was wearing free people sweats, like a little tank and a bangle and flip flops. Havianas probably amazing. And I went to her and I was like, I'm wearing my nameplate in homage to Carrie. That was a lie. It was much more in homage to, like, Fulton Mall and Hot 97.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

But I was like, can we get a photo? And she was, you know, I don't really do that when I'm not working, but I'll come find you after I'm done shopping and sign an autograph. And she did. And my greatest regret is that she didn't sign my Marlboro Lights, which would have been, like, lightboxed and framed, but she signed an issue of Nylon magazine on a page with a. Was it Jade Jagger? Maybe. And Alexandra Richards.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, my God. Nylon.

[Queenie Satine]

In an unintelligible handwriting. Many lines. Many lines of unreadable text.

[Lauren Garrone]

But do you have an idea of what it may be said?

[Queenie Satine]

Dear Grimrone. And Unintelligible. Unintelligible. Unintelligible. But I loved watching her there because she knew all the people at all the departments by first name. They were like, oh, Sarah, I got this cheese in for you. And then she popped on the subway when she was done. And I respected that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She loves to keep it real. So I need to know what you guys thought of this episode of and Just like that and this season of and Just like that in general.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, my God. Well, I feel like, you know, we can't hold it to the same standards.

[Queenie Satine]

Obviously, I'm grading on a curve.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, it seems to be getting more palatable, which is nice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You sound like you have a gun to your head. Well, guys, Michael Patrick King is here in the studio.

[Lauren Garrone]

Jesus.

[Queenie Satine]

I know. He listens to everything, though.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, I hope he does it.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, in the episode. In this last episode, they said, don't think Great Expectations. Think lower your expectations. Carrie said that about her, like, umbrella.

[Queenie Satine]

Statement about the series?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, literally. I mean, it felt like a meta kind of statement about, like, where we are now with. And just like that. I feel like. And just like that. Have you ever seen the movie Coraline?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, and just like that feels like there's a whole bizarro universe where everyone is slightly. Looks kind of the same, but they all have button eyes and everything seems the same, but it's not. Everything's slightly different, but kind of sinister and evil. And that's what. And just like, that feels like. Feels like all of our favorite characters have been lobotomized. The writers have been lobotomized.

[Queenie Satine]

It is kind of like, let's say like a silkscreen where it's slightly off center and like everything has kind of an echo of like where it's supposed to be, but it's not quite like, on the money.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I completely understand. So I wanted to have you two on together because you feel like the spiritual children of Patricia Field. You are both maximalists. I feel like you have adjacent fashion interests. So I wanted to ask you about how the Sex in the City look influenced you fashion wise.

[Queenie Satine]

Ladies first.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, my God.

[Queenie Satine]

So I'll go.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, you go exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Period.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, I have to say, really, the main thing that jumped out at me was the high low mix. That certainly became a governing principle in my approach to styling and my approach to, like, self styling and high school. I think we're almost the same age.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think you're a little bit younger.

[Queenie Satine]

I'm like a year younger. So I think I was in eighth grade when it came out. And I had moved to like, a new neighborhood in sixth grade that was a little bit more like, I would say, like the hip hop kind of aesthetic was more present there. But also I grew up with a weird immigrant father from Poland who had a hip hop radio show. So it was not quite like, not a new concept to me, but it kind of became like, more prominent in my style. So things like the nameplate and the G word gold that we're. We won't go there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, but just like, no, we're not going there.

[Queenie Satine]

Army surplus cargoes with a little mule or something. It was just a lot of the mixing that kind of appealed to me. And I will interject and feel free to cut any of these, like, tangential.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Things, but no, go off, please. That's why I brought you here.

[Lauren Garrone]

The world needs your tangents.

[Queenie Satine]

So back to school shopping. Fifth grade, I went to Hotel Venus, which was Pat's other store on West Broadway. And it was like, kind of inspired by Tokyo. And it had one of those, like, Japanese Polaroid photo booths and stuff. But I remember I wanted to try on this, like, Shinwa's blouse different times. And I also was 11 years old, but I talked to Amanda and Sophia. Amanda Lepore and Sophia Lamarr were the shop girls there at the time, and they were still in their kind of, like, twin sister era.

[Lauren Garrone]

Was Amanda doing eyebrows?

[Queenie Satine]

Amanda was doing the red hair.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, okay.

[Queenie Satine]

Like the Bettie page, like, micro bang red hair.

[Lauren Garrone]

She was there, like, tweezing eyebrows.

[Queenie Satine]

But she was doing, like, the makeup counter, right? Yeah. And so I wanted to try this shirt on. And Sofia was like, you mind, Cher fitting room? And I was like, oh, gosh, I don't know. Like, buttoning my trench coat to the top. And I was like, I don't know. And she was like, come on, be free. Party with us while she's shimming her breasts. And then I remember also I was the decoy at Patfield's while my friends would shoplift hard candy eyeshadow compacts. So I had to, like, engage her in conversation and keep her distracted. She also probably knew and didn't care that we were stealing. But one time I was like, oh, my God, what a lovely accent. Can you tell me a little bit more about your origin? She said, I'm from Boise, Idaho. I'm deep, deep in Idaho. I'm a potato head. And then I actually worked with her last year in a random project where, like, it was a Christopher John Rogers kind of, like, faux editorial special that me and my friend did, but I just asked a few people to come, and they did, which was very kind of gratifying feeling. And she came and she was like, I'm still a potato head.

[Lauren Garrone]

She remembered, you know what?

[Queenie Satine]

When I came back from college and started going out to, like, Mr. Black and, like, Beast and stuff, I would see her and she was like, I know you, little boy who buys shampoo at Puff Fills.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, my God. What was the shampoo brand?

[Queenie Satine]

I didn't buy shampoo, but the wires got a little crossed. They got a little crossed.

[Lauren Garrone]

Did you sell shampoo?

[Queenie Satine]

Not to my recollection, but, ugh.

[Lauren Garrone]

I really wish I was there in that.

[Queenie Satine]

The face recognition was. Was enough for me.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's impressive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's amazing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Especially that bitch. She's seen a lot of faces, been.

[Queenie Satine]

A lot of places in the news this week. The have I Got News for you podcast is back for another series brought.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To you by some of the team behind the show.

[Gabriel Held]

We'll take you through the big stories.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of the week when the TV show can't.

[Queenie Satine]

From Kemi Badnock to Keir Starmer, Donald Trump to Nigel Farage we'll make sure to give everybody every story and subject the complete lack of respect it deserves.

[Gabriel Held]

We also cover all the silliest stories you've missed that don't make the front page and put your news knowledge to the test with our missing words round.

[Queenie Satine]

Listen and subscribe to in the news this week, the have I got news for you podcasts. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So you two are both big fashion collectors, and I'm always curious to know what people are buying. So what are your latest major fashion purchases?

[Lauren Garrone]

Ooh. So I'm back in New York. Like, I've been on a bicoastal tip, but I'm back in New York for a minute. So I figured I would go back to my old haunts, to Beacons closet, which is like, I used to kind of make my job to go twice a week to each Beacon's and to buy or sell. To buy. Because, yeah, I was selling too. Like, honestly, that was. I think my biggest fashion regret is selling the things that the great finds that I found at Beacons back in the day. Playing into that Ouroboros of like, you know, selling back into that and then making like $3 on a Dior skirt or whatever. But I don't know. I went back the other day and I've just been kind of on that moment. I got these Manolos that I'm wearing. I'm just like on a Manolo. I'm trying to get the Manolo rainbow.

[Queenie Satine]

A fuchsia suede, kind of fringe, ankle strap. Manolo with a crisscross.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly. And then, you know, always, like, finding. I'm kind of doing the same thing I've always done, which is like buying good shoes. Manolos. I got my first pair of red bottoms. Isn't that good, girl?

[Queenie Satine]

Me too. My first pair. Yeah. After years of resistance. Cause, like, I kind of am turned off by trends.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Queenie Satine]

But I bought them from Ranjana Khan. And let's drop a photo here because they're quite extravagant and psycho.

[Lauren Garrone]

I need to see a picture. But.

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah, well, come over after.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I will. So, yeah, some Manolos just like building my collection of different Manolos in shapes, colors, and sizes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What have you been buying, Gabriel?

[Queenie Satine]

Okay, so I've actually been doing sample sales lately, which is like a newish chapter for me, so. Vacara.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sad I missed that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, God, me too.

[Queenie Satine]

You know, I think you'll be fine. But I did get a lot of stuff, and I'm gonna say the standout Piece for me was think, like, if Carhartt made a, like, mermaid skirt with a train that had, like, a subtle gray on black Marilyn Monroe Warhol print.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow.

[Queenie Satine]

So that was the standout for me. Oh. They also gifted me this hat that was, like. I would classify it as Haile Verushka. It was like a giant circle of. Of brown faux fur with, like, a tiny little face cutout. And then, oh, I did a little damage at a Margiela sale.

[Lauren Garrone]

What did she get?

[Queenie Satine]

It's hard to describe. Even, like, a very Miss Havishams kind of skirt. It's like a mesh base with kind of tattered ruffles and things. And then this could walk the line.

[Lauren Garrone]

Was it from Glassface collection?

[Queenie Satine]

I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know what I'm talking.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We should be calling it that, right?

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know. That's what I think of it.

[Queenie Satine]

Glassface collection.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Queenie Satine]

It wasn't couture. It was not couture. And also a pair of, like, denim cutoffs with tiny little Swarovski like, all over.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, fab.

[Queenie Satine]

Which I did have to, like, jump online and be like, don't ask for this for your cowboy Carter outfit. Like, it's reserved for a higher tier.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And then also to clarify, Gabriel's buying clothes because he has this incredible archive and he's renting them out for events and for shoots and stuff like that. So you're not necessarily wearing all of these things.

[Queenie Satine]

I wear about 15% of the stuff. Maybe I don't have a personal closet. All my things are, like, available for rental. But I lost a few pounds in my waist for you, as Missy Elliott said, and can wear now more of, like, the dresses and things. But. And then I would say just to piggyback on, Chelsea is wearing an amazing Divine T shirt I bought for a client. But I'm also buying my first client that wears menswear. They don't identify as a man, but.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We'Re talking about a friend of the show, King Princess.

[Queenie Satine]

Friend of the show, King Princess. I bought this supreme hoodie that has the I'm Beautiful, like, Divine album cover.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I have that as well.

[Lauren Garrone]

So good.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, and one that I love that I bought for us. Cause I'm shopping for she. And I was a Jimmy Choo Tim that has, like, gold leaf on it and an airbrushed Jimmy Choo logo, as well as a dazzling of, like, gold glitter at the toe. And otherwise it's just a classic new Buck Tim.

[Lauren Garrone]

I didn't know that Chu did a timing. Oh, I thought There was only the Manola Tim.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, no. This was more recent, but Chu did a whole Tim collaboration. They did, like, fuchsia velvet Tims.

[Lauren Garrone]

They did, but they weren't, like, pointy cunty.

[Queenie Satine]

They actually did kind of replicate that shape, but Swarovski'd out.

[Lauren Garrone]

Speaking of Divine, I just. I think about this all the time, but I have a picture of Divine over my toilet, like, in my bedroom in my house. She'd love that in a little frame just sitting above the toilet, you know, I think it's important.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I got this, actually at the Loewe outlet in Cabazon.

[Lauren Garrone]

Cabazon.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because no one bought any of that Divine stuff. So I got the handbag and both of the shirts.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wow.

[Queenie Satine]

Wow.

[Lauren Garrone]

Gabriel would love Cabazon. We need to take her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Queenie Satine]

She's coming.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You have to.

[Queenie Satine]

Also, anecdotally, my mother wore an au pair when she was, like, 14 for one of the original John Waters actress girls and knew what she still calls the Lady Divine to this day.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's all she was, Divine's au pair.

[Queenie Satine]

No, no, Divine didn't have children, to my knowledge, except for all of us. But, no, this woman, she owned a boutique on Long island, and she was affiliated with, like, the early John Waters crowd and, like, think early 70s. And, yeah. Spent some time around what she still calls the Lady Device.

[Lauren Garrone]

I love that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Since I've been in New York, I'm like, fuck it. I'm on vacation. Like, I'm swiping the credit card I to the Balenciaga sale and got, like, all of the ugliest shit that no one would want. Like the giant sack dresses and the ugly florals and stuff. I also bought that Gaultier Bratz doll that came out this week.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, my God. Yes. I'm so happy you got that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I had to.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I had to.

[Lauren Garrone]

You're my favorite doll collector.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, thanks, honey.

[Queenie Satine]

I have something for you to know perhaps that we might need to cut. I don't know, but, like, Monster High is making a catfi collection of, like, that K Pop girl band, and they are, of course, wearing some of my clothes in the Monster High dolls.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Lauren Garrone]

I love that you need that, too.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do need that. So to pivot to another spooky fashion news story trying to transition from Monster High, I really need to know what you guys think of Lauren Sanchez's wedding dress.

[Queenie Satine]

Ooh. I've got many thoughts. So, would you like to start off or.

[Lauren Garrone]

It was never gonna give anything we wanted it to. You know what? I mean, it's just like the.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It could have given something that it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Could have been super fab. But yeah, like, we knew that the taste wasn't gonna be there. And the reference image obviously is beautiful. But I'm like, honestly, I'm so over references. I think everyone is over referencing things. And like, as a reference, girl, this is saying a lot, but we need to absolutely never reference anything ever again. Don't try because you're gonna do it even without trying. But yeah, it's always gonna be disappointing, especially if she's at the helm and Dolce and Gabbana's at the helm.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, we won't go there. But at the risk of sounding ignorant, what was the reference? I didn't see it.

[Lauren Garrone]

So her wedding dress was a Sophia Loren.

[Queenie Satine]

Ah, I see.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sophia Lorenzo gown. Wedding dress.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It wasn't her personal wedding dress. It was a movie, a movie called Houseboat where she was marrying Cary Grant in this film. And it was this beautiful high necked. I mean, you can imagine.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. But it was just like, you know, it was like the lesser detailed version of it. And I need to know what you thought of it.

[Queenie Satine]

I'm just gonna, like, reference my notes because I've got a few actually in preparation for this. I have pages and pages of notes. Well, first of all, she stole my Dolce Vita lifestyle. Second of all. Okay, now I'm working off the assumption that we all assume that she's not perhaps like the pinnacle of claws. Not clas, but Klaus.

[Lauren Garrone]

Klaus.

[Queenie Satine]

So I can just hear her talking to Anna, Anna Wintour, who advised on the dress and saying, I usually bring my own dressing, that fat free ranch stuff, but this is restaurant quality. Like here I am taste sensitive. I thought trench coat buttoned to the top with her neck. And I also thought, okay, Christina Ricci's met gala gown from years ago that Zac Posen did, which I read that she took painkillers to be in that corset so long.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow.

[Queenie Satine]

And lastly, I had something that to me was a revelation, which was. Is Lauren Sanchez Bezos, My Fair Lady.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Very, very My Fair Lady.

[Queenie Satine]

And does that fit her narrative? I think it does.

[Lauren Garrone]

So true. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's very My Fair Lady. What did you think?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, okay, I can't shade her for the choice of designer because it's so on brand for both of them.

[Queenie Satine]

Like match Made in Heaven.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a match made in heaven. Truly. You're right.

[Lauren Garrone]

And in Italy, like, couldn't you. I don't know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But the high neck, it's just like, that's just not her. Like, have the girls out. Like, this is Lauren Sanchez, you know, like I saw her at a party last year and she was wearing a floor length hot pink feather coat, probably also dolce, like a chainmail mini dress with a matching chainmail thong and the boobs just like out. And I was like, that's this girl. Like, that's her look. Like, why not do the bridal version of an outfit like that?

[Queenie Satine]

That sounds like a drag interpretation of Paris Hilton's 21st with like a reveal coat, a feather reveal coat so you can cast it off and show the dress.

[Lauren Garrone]

She's like, she kind of like a pussycat doll. Right? You know what I mean? Yeah, she's like a sugar baby. She was a newscaster and a pilot. Yeah, she's like a surge doll. That's CIS and you know, that's her vibe. It would have been cool if she went in that direction, but she's clearly trying to cosplay as something old, old money.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, okay, let me just interject here and say first of all, her dress is kind of the version of like restaurant quality dressing. But also it reminds me of in My fair Lady when Audrey Hepburn sends home to her like hovel that she used to live in for her birdcage and her hand fan. Cause those are like the two classiest things that she had. So that's my thought.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I have more thoughts about the photography, I think because I was kind of shocked because it's like the COVID of Vogue. I would think it would look more, I don't know, Annie Leibovitz portrait.

[Lauren Garrone]

Y.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But it looked like it was shot by an actual wedding photographer. It was shot by a photographer who I'm not familiar with, named Tierney Guerin, who's more of a documentary portrait photographer. But I just think if Vogue is going to do this, it's like, like lachapelle or nothing. Just do it, you know, go all out.

[Lauren Garrone]

That would have been so fab.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Lean into the look, you know, and do something fun with it.

[Lauren Garrone]

It would have given a bit. If it was lachapelle. It would have given a bit. You know, the portrait of Hillary Clinton with the like apple with the worm going through it like the rotting apple. It would have been like. There would have been something a little bit like tongue in cheek and dark sided about it, but that would have been perfect. I mean, we wish that it had been leaned more into the tackiness, but it was just kind of giving sad a bit. The gray carpet. Who made these Choices. We have words for you.

[Queenie Satine]

If LaChapelle had done it, it would have been. I think you all referenced Chloe Mal writing an article that was very respectful and nice, but also had a little tongue in the cheek. There would have been maybe fly under the radar kind of. I don't want to say shade, but like, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. But also, I could see why they would have a kind of more documentary style photographer to kind of document this anthropological experiment of this wedding. More like National Geographic or that sort.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of ilk, for sure. But I also just kind of want to see Lauren Sanchez. And it's sort of modeled after, like, attack of the 50 foot woman. And she's in her wedding dress, just.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, storming through New York, like, stomping on Venice, like. Like per foot in a. In a gondola.

[Queenie Satine]

You know, it's a shoe, not a gondola.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I want to talk about some fashion shows with you guys, because we just came off Men's Fashion Week, but before we get into that, I want to talk about this Marc Jacobs show that happened in New York a few days ago. What do we think?

[Lauren Garrone]

Obsessed.

[Queenie Satine]

A lot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, a lot. You have a lot of thoughts or you thought it was a lot?

[Queenie Satine]

A lot. In a good way. Both in terms of thoughts and just the general presentation.

[Lauren Garrone]

It feels like Mark is doing something very specific right now. It feels like everything is oversized proportions, kind of doll thing. And I feel like he's synthesizing so many things that we're seeing on other things, like the kind of breastplate. Everything feels very breastplate right now. You know what I mean? Everything feels very. Boobsforqueens.com Let me just chime in and say, yeah, please.

[Queenie Satine]

As a New York Jewess myself, I do feel that it's evident he was playing in his grandmother's giant Jewish brassieres as a child and wants to kind of tap into that nostalgic feeling for him.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have to shout out. I don't know if you guys know who Ivana Vladislava is, but she just did a collection with Vlada Buchikova, and it's all these, like, giant titty. Cause she's like a surged doll with, like, giant, you know, like, spacer boobs. Like, not even enough CCs that they create this in an implant size. Like, so it feels very. Like everyone is. Hopefully, in the next couple years, everyone's walking around with, like, giant fake breast, like, foam on them.

[Queenie Satine]

I know I'll be in the clothes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, exactly. Like, let's do this. Thanks, Mark.

[Queenie Satine]

I would also say that I saw a little conflation of Little House on the Carry, as well as, like, skater boy, a see you later, boy. To me, I also question, like, this new kind of area for Mark. I love it. It's kind of, like, very different from anything we've seen from him before in the past. Like, I don't know, what would you say, like, 30 years until, like, five years ago.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Because he's making essentially wearable sculptures instead of. Of ready to wear. Well, you know, for some, like, something that zips onto your body, but it's not designed.

[Queenie Satine]

Able to go on the body.

[Gabriel Held]

Yes.

[Queenie Satine]

But I am kind of wondering, like, I don't want to get ahead of us and talk about Will Echeveria, but we're seeing little tweaks to this kind of new concept of Mark every season. But they're staying in the same world, which I understand, but it's not dramatically different every season. It's kind of peppering in, like, new themes within the same kind of world.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sure. Because he's been exploring this sort of puffy, sculptural, extreme proportions sort of thing. But to me, I feel like this was the best execution of that concept, which we've seen over the past, like, I think at least three shows at this point. But to me, it's like, I like girlishness in fashion. Like, I'm someone that appreciates, like, the bows and the little floral prints and the ruffles, all of those things. So whenever we get a Mark collection like that, I appreciate it, whether it's the Louis Vuitton carousel show or this, but I don't know. I'm just so glad that he's here.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Is he showing in New York?

[Queenie Satine]

Yes, he's one of the most.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He's the last man standing.

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah. I didn't want to.

[Lauren Garrone]

I would say New York Fashion Week is on Marc Jacobs and Claire Sullivan's shoulders.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But to be fair, that generation in the last man standing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, also that Mark seems to be wise enough to know that, like, the assigned New York Fashion Week is perhaps not like, the most prestigious place for him to show his work. And I think that that's astute.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And, yeah. I read an article in Business of Fashion that said that the media impact value from the Bezos wedding was 60% higher than the entirety of New York fashion. So Dolce and Gabbana got more out of that than all designers in New York Fashion Week as it currently stands, which is pretty nuts.

[Queenie Satine]

I Will say that I clocked a dress in Mark's collection that was not entirely dissimilar to Lauren's wedding dress.

[Gabriel Held]

Well.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Cause they had the same sort of.

[Queenie Satine]

Victorian, this high neck, white lace, long sleeve, My Fair lady kind of gig.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

But with giant titties.

[Queenie Satine]

There was certainly something, you know, that turned the dial a little bit past the highest volume.

[Lauren Garrone]

I just wish that there wasn't such a divide between. This is me speaking as a consumer, but I wish there wasn't such a giant gaping hole between what we can purchase, within reason, from Marc Jacobs and what we're seeing on the Runway. To me, the bags are scary. And every time I see them, it gives me a bad feeling. I wanna go back to the days where Marc Jacobs had this tourist shop store of this soft T shirt.

[Queenie Satine]

Get a lipstick pen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Or like, the special item store.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, this was the best. And now it's just like you're just slapping your name on these ugly canvas bags. Sorry, they're terrible. But then the Runway shows are so gorge. I want to. Jesus.

[Queenie Satine]

Bridge that gap a little bit. Well, fruit flies like both of you.

[Lauren Garrone]

Around me, between the mimosas and all of us, they've got enough to feast on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Gabriel, I'm curious. Do you. In your archive, do you have those Marc Jacobs skin cancer shirts still from the special items store?

[Queenie Satine]

I think I have one because I do consider them very significant. Like, historically.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Queenie Satine]

But they've actually become very expensive to buy now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Really?

[Queenie Satine]

I remember, like, I did a sale when with my friend Hayley Wallins and with Chloe Sev a couple years ago where she was selling her own version of the Mark shirt with her on it. Not like, as merch, just she had one and was selling it alongside a law and order SVU shirt and various other things for no money. But I would say hers is a highly collectible one. Victoria Beckham. They're all priced more than the retail was, of course, at the store at the time.

[Lauren Garrone]

And they were what, like, 40, $30? Like, everything was.

[Queenie Satine]

Ooh. But you know what I do have two versions of is the Marc Jacobs hearts Lil Kim shirt that he made when she went to jail.

[Lauren Garrone]

That checks out.

[Queenie Satine]

I have one that's, like, brutalized, ripped up. It barely covers a nipple. But Anok did wear it recently. And then I have one pristine one. I used to be able to get them at Beacon's closet, like, every week. There was one for, like, $12.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But you've been banned from Beacon's closet.

[Queenie Satine]

I can shop. I can spend money. I just can't make money.

[Lauren Garrone]

How did that happen again?

[Queenie Satine]

Okay, so I had been selling at Beacons since I was literally like 11 or 12 years old. It was truly like, in a nutshell, my lore is like, I went to the school where they filmed Gossip Girl. It cost more than my mom's annual salary. So I was always hustling and buying stuff, selling it to the girls. Like Jenny Humphries on Gossip Girl was more or less my life story ripped from the headlines. But so I would go to Beacons all the time. I would sell. Back in the good days, you could sell a pair of Frankie B. Jeans with a broken zipper and still get $8. Or buy like a pair of Cartier glasses for like 40, which was twice my weekly allowance. So I didn't do that. But I fell on hard times after college and was selling like constantly. And I think they fatigued of my constant presence.

[Lauren Garrone]

And how many times a week were you?

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, probably like twice.

[Lauren Garrone]

Selling counter Beacons.

[Queenie Satine]

Like twice.

[Lauren Garrone]

Probably twice. For how many years?

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, not that many. Like one or two.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Queenie Satine]

Maybe less. Even though I needed to know. Well, I knew you in that era, actually. But a lovely buyer picked up a Beautiful Miu Miu, like 90s Miu Miu skirt, wool with a velvet trim, and held it to her ear and kind of pulled at the fabric and said, it sounds like it may have shrunk. To which I said, if you hear and see people listening to the clothes around the store, that is somebody certainly keep an eye on. And then ultimately I tried to sell the stage same Drez jacket multiple times. And they tricked me also, you guys. They said it was too damaged to sell. Not to the naked eye, nor to, like, the nose or the sound. I don't know what it was damaged in their eyes. But a manager came out and was like, oh, my God, that jacket's so cute. Can I take a look at that? And then took it in the back and came out and was like, you've tried to sell this multiple times. We've been keeping a spreadsheet of all your sales.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh.

[Queenie Satine]

And they were like, you're no longer welcome here. And you know what? I waited eight years and I went back and was told, still not welcome. Wow.

[Lauren Garrone]

What do they have your face?

[Queenie Satine]

They have my binder. They do. And also, you guys, I applied for a job there after college and I killed my audition. Cause it really was an audition, not like an application. They give you a box of clothes to randomly go through and assess how you would price them. And I Was like, okay, this one has a side seam label with a size 44. So it's Italian. It has no brand on it. But I know that that's worth a little bit more than the others. Didn't get the job. It was not God's will for me, you all to be.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's wrong.

[Lauren Garrone]

You were overqualified for that one.

[Queenie Satine]

As I was also when I applied to be a fitting room attendant at Lomans.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I missed Lomans.

[Queenie Satine]

I would have loved that. But they did tell me I was overqualified. I was like, let me be the judge of that.

[Lauren Garrone]

When the Bronx Lomans closed down, they were selling all their mannequins. You remember all the mannequins looked different, Right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They had like a shy line as a head.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, they were kind of like alien Kenny Sharfy.

[Queenie Satine]

Yes. And actually when Century 21 closed, I was a vulture circling every location in the tri state area for weeks. Cause they kept going down and down.

[Lauren Garrone]

Even the Bay Ridge one.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, the Bay Ridge was like my home base.

[Lauren Garrone]

I loved that.

[Queenie Satine]

That was one of the more untapped ones. And I bought the shoe racks. I bought like the fixtures and the furnishings as well as some pretty iconic pieces for like dirt cheap prices. And welcome back century 21. Happy to have you back.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know I need to go.

[Lauren Garrone]

And much like. And just like that.

[Queenie Satine]

And just like that they came out.

[Lauren Garrone]

And just like that, she's not the same anymore.

[Queenie Satine]

And just like that, they sold only designer marni dress for $500. And everything else was nothing we'd be kind of looking at.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's sad to hear. Okay, so I want to talk about some of the recent men shows. We talked about the Dior show on this podcast last week, but I'm curious to know your thoughts.

[Queenie Satine]

Okay, let me pull up my notes because they are copious for Dior, a little bit more streamlined. But for me it was giving in a few words. Laurie from Little Women by way of 80s Ralph Lauren Polo and Calvin Klein jeans by way of Williamsburg, late 2000s hipster by way of Ebenezer Scrooge and Jean Valjean.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm not arguing with that.

[Lauren Garrone]

How did you feel about it?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I liked it.

[Queenie Satine]

I liked it, by the way. I did like it. Yeah, that's just my knee jerk reaction.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, what about Prada? The Prada men's show? Do you love the hats or do you hate the hats?

[Queenie Satine]

I think Carrie would wear one, certainly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sure she will.

[Queenie Satine]

And I'm sure she will for me. Again, Ebenezer Scrooge on safari. It's been a two. You know, Patsy Stone had to reapply for her job and said, it's been a terrific year for the trans seasonal trouser and nothing else. That was her whole interview.

[Lauren Garrone]

Jeremy.

[Queenie Satine]

You can't come in. You're too fat, was what she said. If you have to ask, you can't afford it. Very 90s Prada. But okay. So in a nutshell, one of my least pleasant clients had a manager that was not American and would send me texts like, I want to see this look with shorts. And I'd send shorts, and he'd be like, no, pants. What are you doing? Why shorts? And you say, style it the next way. So Prada was kind of 90s Prada style the next way to me, which is great.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, khaki diapers and, like, trench coats. Button to the top.

[Queenie Satine]

Button to the top.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The styling is pretty extreme. Like, the clothes aren't even that crazy if you look at them individually, but the styling is so extreme that it almost borders on, like, Wes Anderson character level.

[Lauren Garrone]

Twee.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, it's a bit twee.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, I read the interviews, and they did say they kind of. The way I interpreted it was like they didn't give it too much thought. Is kind of what they said. It was very, like, intuitive and just kind of happened.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I think twee is kind of like the. In the brand ID of Prada a bit. Maybe not Prada men's, but, like, more women's. But I feel like everything's merging, right?

[Queenie Satine]

Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, gender wise.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, I mean, those Ebenezer Scrooge night shirts.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There you go.

[Queenie Satine]

But also, I do feel I could have seen some of those looks on. On Charlotte glamping.

[Lauren Garrone]

Charlotte glamping. I can't. On Governor's Island.

[Queenie Satine]

I was kind of like, Let me Google how I can do that.

[Lauren Garrone]

You. We need. Should we. This weekend?

[Queenie Satine]

Well, for my 40th, I'm kind of, like, plotting how to be near the.

[Lauren Garrone]

Water and you don't want to be.

[Queenie Satine]

Girls. I'm not going to. I'm going to have an optional cocktail hour at Giondo's on the waterfront.

[Lauren Garrone]

What about Pines?

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, girl, no. No.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What about Provincetown?

[Queenie Satine]

I wanna stay local. I wanna stay local.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay, okay, okay. You're like Manhattan guy right now.

[Queenie Satine]

Brooklyn guy.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Queenie Satine]

I wanna say actually within a several block radius of my house.

[Lauren Garrone]

So you gotta be glamping in Red Hook.

[Queenie Satine]

I gotta be glamping in my house. I think it's really cool.

[Lauren Garrone]

Maybe you can airbnb a houseboat in Brooklyn in Gowanus. You know, girls, I've tried. I've tried all the.

[Queenie Satine]

You know, you both know that I live on the river, on the east river, and I've been like dead set on trying to do something by the water. And I think for me, the place that's been there as long as I have been is Giondo's on the Waterfront, which is a perhaps mafia adjacent kind of restaurant, which has all of the ambiance that I need.

[Lauren Garrone]

Have you been?

[Queenie Satine]

I have been. I mean, my mom and her boyfriend went in the late 90s for a soup and a cocktail. And then I went with my bestie.

[Lauren Garrone]

Is it just open to the public?

[Queenie Satine]

It is. Although I tried to shoot something there once and they were like $1,000 an hour. I was like, well, when your mail get erroneously delivered to me, I'm not bringing it back anymore.

[Lauren Garrone]

I've always wanted to go there.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, and then you all. I'm like, trying to make a reservation at this other restaurant. I don't want to even give them the name credit, but we can bleep it out. So this restaurant called. It's spelled, but it is. They pronounce it that way. It's like a pasta factory, slash, like Michelin restaurant that's within several blocks of my home. And. And they were like, okay, we don't have reservations open for August until 28 days before the date you want. Set an alarm for slightly before 10am so you can get in there. I'm like, you still have dates open in July, so I'm not that worried. But then I tried to, like, ask them if you have more than seven people, you have to rent a room. And I was like, let's ask about that. And they were like, okay, the prefix for three courses is $400 per person almost for an antipasti, a pasta, and a gelato.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yikes.

[Queenie Satine]

And I said, it cannot be me.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, they're carrying bradshawing. Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, moving on. Willie Chavarria, Beautiful show.

[Lauren Garrone]

Gorgy Love was stunning.

[Queenie Satine]

My favorite. So far from him, actually, to be.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Honest, it was so great. Well, because it's. That brand is so genius and it's so obviously rooted in Mexican American identity. But this show, you got that. And also these sort of fashion tropes that were so Parisian, almost like 80s YSL or something. Like the brocades and the jewel toned satin and that sort of thing. Like, I don't think we've ever seen him design like a pencil skirt before.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know, it's so chic. It's so 80s YSL onto that palette. That color palette of, like, those really saturated jewel tones mixed with, like, mint and teal, and it's stunning.

[Queenie Satine]

My, like, main takeaway was make new friends, but keep the old. One is silver and the other is gold because he added so much to it that we hadn't seen before, while still staying kind of true to the brand identity and keeping the classic motifs. There is a Versace show from the 90s where all the girls are wearing these fitted pencil skirts and kind of reflective material with a button down, short sleeve tucked in, in all these pastel kind of tones. But one thing that I did think also was I thought a funny thing, but just also that he said he. He didn't want to do women's wear until he brought in an actual specific female designer for their perspective. Which I do want to get her name in here, Rebecca Mendoza, so as to not design women's wear from a male perspective. And I thought that was really evident and also, like, a smart choice. It does remind me of that one Mark show, though, that was really 80s. You know the one I'm talking about, of course.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Was that Mark or was that Louis Vuitton mark?

[Queenie Satine]

It was kind of like 80s YSL.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It had, like the jewel tone satin and stuff like that.

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah, it was pre pandemic, but I don't. I'm not a seasons girl. I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

For me, it's just exciting to see New York designers moving to Paris. And it feels really inspired to me.

[Queenie Satine]

And also jumping the ship of New York.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly. I mean, Vicara too. Vikara. They all just moved like five days ago or two days ago.

[Queenie Satine]

Less even. Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Literally. So I'm excited about this new era of, like, New York does Paris.

[Queenie Satine]

Me too.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's really beautiful, and I feel like I'm gonna follow them. Literally, I'm like, Paris is calling my name. Like, New York is moving to Paris.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, I also have an opinion that might be a chop. It might be a chop. But my question is a simile. Is Amelia Gray to fashion today what 2000's Jennifer Lopez was to music?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Queenie Satine]

An industry plant who can kind of echo the sentiments of the day without necessarily, like, inhabiting them.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was surprised that she was cast in the show just because I feel like they are so specific with.

[Queenie Satine]

The casting was very deliberate too.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. With the kinds of people that they cast. And I feel like they're probably like, rejecting a lot of people and they're always staying true to themselves. But I mean, the eyebrows, the look. It makes sense.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, she has been inspired by a girl who actually does have a Mexican mother.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True.

[Lauren Garrone]

She bought her face.

[Queenie Satine]

And money well spent.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I mean, great work.

[Queenie Satine]

Very good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's your go to babe.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm next.

[Queenie Satine]

Dr. Levine. Is that the one?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, Queenie, I vaguely remember seeing on Instagram that you were out on the town wearing those Willy Chavarria Bott boxers with the holes in them. Did you buy them or did they give them to you?

[Lauren Garrone]

It was a gift. Ooh, amazing. It's fab. I love Willie. I love Jess. They're some of my favorite people. So funny, so talented. But yeah, I love. Those are treasures. A treasured piece in my closet. I even kept the little, like, envelope that they come in. Like ephemera. Yeah, exactly. I don't know if you see how they package them, but they package it like you're an only fans girl selling your piston underwear. You know what I mean? Like, it's kind of like on point. It's like a little like a step above a Ziploc. Like half Mylar, half plastic with just kind of like a sticker on it. But it's really fab. My nipples keep coming out of my.

[Queenie Satine]

Agent provocateur, and she keeps putting them away.

[Lauren Garrone]

I know it's a nipple before, like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, let them out. No one's mad.

[Queenie Satine]

That's a great point.

[Lauren Garrone]

You've seen my fully naked breast.

[Queenie Satine]

Both of you, naked bodies.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm always naked.

[Queenie Satine]

And thank you for your service.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, it's an easy Google darling.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I need to know what you guys think about this current incarnation of Louis Vuitton. This show, to me, was really boring, like their latest fashion show. But I would just be curious to know, as Louis Vuitton connoisseurs such as yourselves, what you think of this Pharrell era.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, as Whitney Houston once said, what do I think of her? I don't. But to be frank, I saw a fashion account talk about how revolutionary it was, and I was like, revolutionary in the sense of chinos and button downs and bomber jackets. And I actually do respect Pharrell as a fashion icon in terms of personal style, of course. Like that. That purple croc Birkin that he wore 20 years ago. That really laid a foundation for men to get in the Birkin game.

[Lauren Garrone]

You are a purple croc Birkin.

[Queenie Satine]

I don't like purple that much. I'm a pink. I'm a pink croc Birkin.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Queenie Satine]

And not due to my scaly skin.

[Lauren Garrone]

But you're definitely a croc Birkin of a jewel tone.

[Queenie Satine]

And you're definitely an ostrich Birkin.

[Lauren Garrone]

Mm. I love that. Or a cat and chell.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think I'm a Birkin. No. I'm the battery. I'm the battered, like, Jane Birkin.

[Queenie Satine]

With the free Tibet sticker.

[Chelsea Fairless]

With a free Tibet sticker, which is.

[Queenie Satine]

Up for auction right now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know, I know. I'm excited to see.

[Lauren Garrone]

We need, like, eight more people.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think we're gonna be bidding against, like, Kim Kardashian and people like that. I'm dying to know how much it sells for.

[Lauren Garrone]

It would feel good to beat her, though, in a. In a bidding war. Even if it was, like, 30 people.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We should crowdfund this.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, not a piece of real estate, but, like, a bag. Like, 40 people go in on a bag.

[Queenie Satine]

Perhaps that's actually a more, like, appreciative investment investment than real estate, actually. I do want to just say briefly that for fashion centric accounts that kind of give airtime to this or that person we might not be aligned with politically or socially because they carried a rare Kelly or something, I don't have the utmost respect for that. I think as, like, as kind of a fashion account myself, I don't feel like we're subjected to the rules of, like, you know, journalism, where you have to be impartial. I do think you get to choose who you want to, like, give celebratory kind of praise to. And I do think that, for me, I don't, like, even if you design a dress for. I'm just gonna say it like, Melania. It changes my perception. It changes my perception of the brand. Like, you know, for me, I know this is not a political show, but.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It could be this week.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, we won't go there, but we can. So for me, just basically, like, I tried to unsubscribe from the email, like, five times, and it keeps coming. But when they were giving, like, a lot of inauguration coverage on fashion, I was just kind of like, I didn't.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sign up for this, of course, but do you still use Vogue Runway, or are you a tag walk person?

[Queenie Satine]

Well, actually, you put me onto first view 11 years ago. You're welcome, and thank you very much.

[Lauren Garrone]

I literally logged into my Vogue Runway app today to, like, discuss all of.

[Queenie Satine]

The stuff we're talking about.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Literally.

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah, me too. And I. I can't knock them for that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's the thing about Vogue. It's like we're tethered to Vogue Runway.

[Lauren Garrone]

And thank you for telling me about.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The quiz or like the game Runway genius.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm obsessed with Runway genius.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, it's so fun. Do you do.

[Queenie Satine]

I haven't tip to toe yet because I'm scared, actually, that I won't have the right answers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Are you kidding?

[Queenie Satine]

You'll know I'm not a dates person.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They just show a Runway photo and they're like, what designer is this?

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, well, I'll do that, certainly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But they don't even make it hard in the sense that, like, they're like.

[Queenie Satine]

Who did this Louis Vuitton logo?

[Lauren Garrone]

Literally. No.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And the choices will be, like, Rick Owens, like, temporally and like, you know what I mean? They don't even make it hard by picking, like, sort of adjacent designers that you might be confused, like, oh, is this Versace or is this Cavalli or something?

[Lauren Garrone]

Sometimes they even have, like, part of the logo of the brand in the background of the Runway, you know what I mean? They just have it, like slightly cropped.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Or fully branded, like items, you know.

[Queenie Satine]

I would also plug in, though, that Temperley bags should be on everybody's real. Real kind of surface, really. Well, if we're doing the Chloe Paddingtons and stuff, like, it's really in the same kind of genre.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Queenie showed up with a. I seen it.

[Lauren Garrone]

A Chloe Paddington, a lockless Paddington.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You have a Balenciaga tote, which I think was very much inspired by Sex and the City. Aesthetically, it's kind of a touristy bag. It's hot pink. It says New York City with the Manhattan skyline. But I was shocked to discover that you guys both carry around a shocking amount of supplements in those sort of pill cases for, like, the elderly.

[Queenie Satine]

That's correct.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And neither of you are pill heads, but you both are carrying around hundreds of vitamins and what, like Tylenols?

[Queenie Satine]

Tylenols, Clabbertin. That's the bulk of things.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have a bunch of herbs and I've been recently bicoastal, so I have my prescribed herbs for all of my tailored issues. Gastrointestinal things.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, I've got probiotics in the skin.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, exactly. The whole bit. So I have my. My pill case was recommended on TikTok by Paloma Elcessor.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, my.

[Lauren Garrone]

So I was like, I had to. Cause I do tote around quite a bit of pills. So it's like one that folds up into a neat little box.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Do you get it from Amazon? Do we need to drop the link?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, we can definitely drop the link for that one. It's aesthetically pleasing.

[Queenie Satine]

I'd say mine is millennial pink. And also, I did grow up in a holistic household where taking a Tylenol was frowned upon. Like, my mother would be like, uh, do the headache pressure point massage. So I do still have, like, my herbals and my little homeopathics. But at the end of the day, if you need an Advil liquid gel, you need an Advil liquid gel.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm impressed. Like, I'm not that thorough. You had more, like, color variety in yours.

[Queenie Satine]

Kind of a agoraphobics tool to get out of the house. To have everything I could possibly need ever. I packed it for the beach yesterday to go to Riis. I was. I was like, anything I might need is gonna be here. I don't have to worry about that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Listen, if you have an archive like that, you don't wanna leave. That's the thing.

[Queenie Satine]

And also, you must have a matching kind of medicational archive.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Last fashion show I wanna talk about is this Telfar 20th anniversary show. I can't believe it's been 20 years.

[Queenie Satine]

That is shocking. Although I remember going out with him at like. Do you remember Happy Endings on Larissa, obviously, where all the Hasidic men were wheeling and dealing?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yep.

[Queenie Satine]

Always drugs and sex and everything. TelPar used to DJ there. And you know what, you guys, I wanted the attention of those boys so badly. I would, like, kind of like, send myself chocolates and flowers and look cute in front of them. And now it's very great to be, like, friends with all of them. But kudos on 20 years. That's really, like, at our age, that's impressive. To have done half a lifetime.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, it's crazy, right?

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And the fact that it's still independently owned is, I think, the most admirable thing. Like, absolutely. He's taking cues from, like, Anna Sui, who's also been independently owned New York brand for so long. I love this show because I feel like they're. I don't know. I can't think of another designer that like, actually wants to dress everyday people and, like, dress everyone. People say that, but I think most fashion designers have like, a very sort of specific idea of the. Their aesthetic ideal and this sort of muse that they want. Want to dress. They're not really interested in making clothes that are sort of, like, functional and.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, for people at the airport. That's what I think of, like, when I think of Telfar now is like, I remember when there was this shift from just seeing it on, like, my friends in New York to Like, going in the airport and like, seeing it on, like, random people flying in to the city from, like, Wyoming or whatever.

[Queenie Satine]

And good for them, good for the brand, and good for those.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Gabriel Held]

It's like.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's really fab to me. It's like watching a Calvin Klein happen or something like that, you know, it's like a. It's a new standard, which is really cool.

[Queenie Satine]

Like an incredible American designer of which we are in need, you know?

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

And all of them seem to be coming from this kind of like the Hood by Air Academy, where, like, those are some of the girls, boys who.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Are from back in the day, but who have been doing this for a long time. That was around the same time I was. Well, Telfar came first.

[Lauren Garrone]

Telfar was first.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Telfar came first.

[Lauren Garrone]

See, I didn't even realize that Telfar was. Cause I think I knew about telfar from, like, 2013, but, like, I didn't realize that it was, like, happening way before that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But that was like the same sort of friend group.

[Queenie Satine]

And it was really, like, not just the larger social circle, but it was like the Venn diagram, like, overlap circle of, like, maybe even our social circle.

[Lauren Garrone]

Everyone downstairs at 1111 in 2014 or.

[Queenie Satine]

China Chalet, where Shane from Hood by Air used to do the door. No, but I have to say, like, DIS magazine hired me to do a back to school benefit fashion show at PS1 in like, 2017 maybe. And they were like, we'd like to include New York designers. And I was like, okay, let's even throw in, like, from my archive, Todd Oldham. We did a couple Todd Oldham looks and, like, Anna Sui and that kind of stuff. But of course, it was highly dependent on Telfar and Loire and Hood by Air and all that stuff that is like, I. I don't know. I was told a year or two ago by one of those people that they all see me, they see the girl and they fuck with her. And that was just the highest praise I could ever hope for. You know, like, Anna Wintour is one thing, but, like, the girls, I actually think know what the fuck is going on.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

Is much higher praise to me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We need to talk about two incredible documentaries that HBO Max has given us this month, the first of which is My Mom Jane, which is Mariska Hargitay's documentary about her mother, Jayne Mansfield, and her sort of attempt to understand who she was as an adult. So excited to get into this with you both.

[Lauren Garrone]

Especially, like, I know you're such an SVU fan.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah.

[Queenie Satine]

And also, oh, I'VE seen every episode, minimum four times.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, great.

[Lauren Garrone]

Thank God we all are like, SV is my comfort show.

[Queenie Satine]

I sleep to it every night.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Me too.

[Queenie Satine]

Comedies are for daylight and the other stuff is for after the sunsets.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I was walking around Central park with Tat yesterday, and she was like, I'm just waiting for some woman to come staggering out of the bushes. I was like, we've watched too much svu. Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, every bridge. Every bridge in Central park is like, like, been shot out by that show.

[Queenie Satine]

I was wearing a little tank top at the beach yesterday and the strap bust, and I was like, oh, my God. Either I'm SVU or I'm Jayne Mansfield, like, accidentally slipping a strap.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

And deliberately accidentally slipping a strap.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I feel like every rave I go to, I think about svu, especially when it's, like, a cornier rave. Like, I'm like, this is. If it's not a good rave, it's giving, like, SVU set rave.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, you remember season two where Melinda. Was that her name? The detective who didn't let they went to a rave and styled in rave fashion.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, of course.

[Queenie Satine]

Let's also do, like, an unsung Shearers of Fashion on my account about Mariska's undercover outfits.

[Chelsea Fairless]

My favorite undercover thing is when Benson and Stabler, like, pretend to be a couple because they're undercover. That's my personal favorite. But it's true. When she was a raver in that one episode, she had, like, a choker and like.

[Queenie Satine]

Like, probably like, a pacifier necklace and little butterfly clips with, like, some trick backs. I think my favorite, though, was when she was a madam and she had to, like, finger by finger, remove leather gloves and have, like, a fur kind of throw.

[Lauren Garrone]

So good. Ugh.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The best. But this movie was really about her discovering her mom. And I didn't know much about Jayne Mansfield because. Because my context for Jayne Mansfield is that photo of her and Sophia Loren where Sophia Loren is, like, looking at her bitchily, like, looking at her tits or whatever. And the fact that she died in this, like, very tragic way. Like, I didn't really know anything else about, Like, I've never seen a Jayne Mansfield movie.

[Queenie Satine]

Me neither.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know, I. I have seen, like, clips.

[Gabriel Held]

Clips.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly. Everyone's seen the Girl Can't Help it where she's walking down the street, which.

[Queenie Satine]

Divine referenced in Female Trouble.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

Walking with the milk down the street.

[Lauren Garrone]

Almost in a, like, My Fair lady esque like, gown, which, by the way, mermaid gown.

[Queenie Satine]

Jane's wedding dress was also a white lace high turtleneck long sleeve.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I noticed that too. Yeah, it's true.

[Lauren Garrone]

But yeah, for me, I'm such a TCM girly. But they never really were. When I was like, in my big TCM days, they were never airing a lot of Jayne Mansfield movies. They're not like the classics. They're kind of like the. The forgotten blockbusters of yesteryear. But for me, Jane Mansfield always had a big place in my heart. Cause from an interior design perspective.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Her iconic Beverly Hills pink Spanish twenties mansion, which she completely redid with a heart and cupid motif, was such a giant inspiration to me. You know, like pink shag carpeted bathroom.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, it was the carpet.

[Lauren Garrone]

He was on tea on the piano.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that was crazy. And it was photographed so impeccably for Life magazine at the time in these like, gorgeous full color photographs. But yes, the cherubs, the hearts, it was such an extreme.

[Lauren Garrone]

You wanna know the tea, please. So, like, I've done a little bit of like, Reddit research on like, the. The latter inhabitants of that house. There was a woman. I'm not sure if it's a woman that is referenced in this documentary that moved in that like, got possessed, that said that she got possessed by the ghost of Jane. By the ghost of Jane. And apparently there was like a bunch of. Exactly. Right. And I'm like me every morning. But there was a bunch of Jane's clothing and. And wigs and stuff in the attic or something like that, like in a closet that was still there after a couple different owners. I think a Beatle owned it.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, didn't Engelbert Humperdink or something?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. He got the piano. But she was possessed by the ghost of Jane and would wear her clothing that was like found in the house and was really communing with her spirit in that house. It's really sad for that. As we also. Spoiler alert. The house is now demolished, which is sad. The gates are still there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I love that they left the gate. Like, at least there's something with her.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like with the initials of Jane and Mickey. J. Em. Like it's so.

[Queenie Satine]

And also Jayne Mansfield.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If you haven't seen this movie, it truly could take an entire film to even just explain her family situation because she has half siblings. Like four different sets of half siblings.

[Queenie Satine]

I think I have three.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Really?

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah. Also between my mother's parents, they each married four times.

[Gabriel Held]

Oh, wow.

[Queenie Satine]

And my father married, I think, legally twice and common law twice. So the average per person in my immediate family is four.

[Lauren Garrone]

So you're so Mariska.

[Queenie Satine]

I'm not so Julia. I'm so Mariska.

[Lauren Garrone]

The thing that shocked me was, like, as a Mariska and a Jane fan, but. But, like, separately, I didn't realize that Mariska had, like, a shame. It was like, a very shame based, like, rejection of her mother's lore as, like, this kind of really bombshell sex symbol of the 60s. I just think that's so interesting because of how it formed Mariska into this kind of, like, really, like, kind of serious, almost butch, like, actress. I think it's really interesting and to learn how the way that she felt about her mother and how she's, like, finally embracing, like, all of the aspects of who Jane was.

[Queenie Satine]

She was basically saying she actively was disinterested and didn't wanna know about her mom.

[Lauren Garrone]

She hated the voice.

[Queenie Satine]

She said, well, she hated that duality of, like, which comes in play with also Enygma, which was the public and private being. Like a totally self constructed, you know, fantasy character where I. At home, you're one person, and in the public eye, you're another person. Which must be very jarring for young children to be like, oh, my mom. Doesn't sound like my mom when we go out on Merv Griffin or whatever. And she's up here and she's doing different things, and then at home she's kind of just being natural.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Because she very much was the poor man's Marilyn Monroe and deliberately so. Exactly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Those studio execs were like, okay, we need you to be Marilyn. Do Marilyn. She was like, oh, I'd love to speak to you on the phone.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, it also seemed like it was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Your Marilyn is good.

[Lauren Garrone]

That was my Jane during Marilyn.

[Queenie Satine]

That was Jane during Marilyn.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I got it.

[Queenie Satine]

But also, I don't think it was just. Which is rare for the time. I don't think it was just studio executives telling her to do that. It seemed like she studied Marilyn actively, and they both did. The smart, dumb blonde. But it seemed like Jane was deliberately, like, trying to pick up on the things that had been successful for Marilyn as portraying herself in that way. But then she felt like she painted herself into a corner and got pigeonholed. And then she wanted to actually show she wasn't the thing she had been portraying. And that made me think actually of Mariska, because she's done very little other than SVU in the past, what, almost 30 years.

[Lauren Garrone]

Also similarly has painted herself into a corner.

[Queenie Satine]

But she seems to be comfortable in that corner.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. Cause it's not as if, like, SVU is the only thing she's doing. She worked as a television actress mostly for years before svu, but post svu.

[Queenie Satine]

Didn'T she do Kung Fu Panda or something?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. You tell me about Kung Fu Panda.

[Queenie Satine]

I think she did voice acting in one, at least children's, which I would assume was, like, for her children to enjoy because they probably shouldn't watch svu.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garrone]

So if we were gonna do a Mariska Hargitay, like, screening of her best work, Kung Fu Panda is gonna be thrown into the mix.

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah, but, like, yeah, don't quote me on that. Don't quote me. I don't know if it was Kung Fu Panda, but something in that ilk.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She was on television shows that, like, weren't that significant. She did guest starring roles on, like, Seinfeld, but when she got svu, she was like, this is it. And since she's gotten svu, I think she produced a documentary sometime in the last decade that was about, like, the untested sort of rape kit epidemic, which obviously is a theme on Law and Order, Special Victims Unit. But this is really the only thing that she's done that has been sort of outside of that for, like, a long time herself. Yeah. Also, this is a bit of a spoiler, but all of the news stories about this documentary have touched on the fact that in this documentary, she reveals that when she was 25, she found out that the man that she thought was her biological father was, in fact, not her father. Which is so svu, of course.

[Queenie Satine]

I mean, it was the twist of, like, the classic SVU twist that we don't even get that I still watch, by the way. I'm still up until, what, 20, 26 season or something like that. Yeah, we don't get those twists anymore. But that was the gaggy twist.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It really was. And also she found out about this in the most insane way, which was basically like this insane Jayne Mansfield fan who I'm going to assume is, like, some random gay guy.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, he was her. He was her assistant.

[Queenie Satine]

No, no, no, not that one. There was this guy who invited her to, like, a meeting of the Jayne Mansfield fan club, which, like, I have to say, for all the celebrity children I've known would run from that. They would not be like, let me go to my mom's fan club meeting.

[Lauren Garrone]

But, like, she was dead. I don't know. I get it. Cuz my mom died when I was 16. So, like, I'm always asking my mom's friends and my Aunts and stuff. Like, tell me more.

[Queenie Satine]

Like, which she was not doing, she did not want to be told.

[Lauren Garrone]

Was like, don't ever read the books about your mom.

[Queenie Satine]

They're all lies.

[Lauren Garrone]

Because, as we've come to find out, her father was not Mickey Hargitay.

[Queenie Satine]

And some of the lies were truths.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

Which this fan club president invited her. And she wore kind of a prom dress. I think even the photo was her in the dress. That's on an episode of SVU where one of the stalkerish guys has made a collage of her photo. Collage wearing that red kind of.

[Lauren Garrone]

Stop it.

[Queenie Satine]

No, it's that off the shoulder red dress, like, Pretty Woman, which she wore to, like, a very prom dress to this meeting of the Jayne Mansfield fan club in Los Angeles.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So nuts.

[Queenie Satine]

Crazy.

[Lauren Garrone]

So, yeah, she finds out through the fan club president, who was like, a gay guy in a bungalow. In a bungalow. Was he in college?

[Chelsea Fairless]

But with, like, life size cutouts of her mom, just, like, in this crazy, like, stalkerish room, I'm assuming also, like.

[Queenie Satine]

When he said it and saw her face react like she'd never heard that, he was like, just conjecture, just rumors. I'm sure it's not true.

[Lauren Garrone]

Aw. Well.

[Queenie Satine]

And she said she didn't follow up on that for, like, maybe two decades till after that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly. My favorite part of the documentary was, like, the interviews with Jane's assistant from the 60s. It's like this. This really old gay guy, like, with a pride hat on.

[Queenie Satine]

I love his pride placement.

[Lauren Garrone]

And the love is love.

[Queenie Satine]

Like, he had, like, a koozie and a hat, and it was product placement for maybe ACLU or something. But, like, he was very like, turn the logo to the front.

[Lauren Garrone]

He's like, we're. We're letting them know that, like, she survived a lot. And we're. We're showing them, but, like, I love this little, like. And then when they showed him in all the photos with Jane, like, they had the pictures of Jane and Mariska's father. I forgot his name.

[Queenie Satine]

Mickey.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Mickey.

[Queenie Satine]

Or.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, you know, like the biological.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The biological father was named Nelson Sardelli.

[Lauren Garrone]

Nelson Sardelli. The hot Italian. So it's Jane and the hot Italian, and then it's this, like, little twink in the corner, like, remembering everything. And my favorite was when he recounted in his book about Jane when she said that she really always wanted to have an Italian child. Her little bambino.

[Queenie Satine]

Her bambino.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God.

[Queenie Satine]

Or bambina.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Can you imagine reading that as an adult knowing that this book was published years ago? Telling the reality of your family that you were completely oblivious to. I can't even imagine what that feels like. But also so many parallels with the character of Olivia Benson and how she never knew who her father was and she was meeting her house, half siblings and like trying to get a grasp on the situation. And also having a mother that dies under tragic circumstances and at like formative age.

[Lauren Garrone]

Did she produce the svu?

[Queenie Satine]

Not at that point, I don't think. No.

[Lauren Garrone]

No. I wonder if it was like if it was based a bit on her life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she didn't talk about it with anyone until this documentary. Really.

[Queenie Satine]

I did have that thought too, Queenie, about like the parallels, but I thought it was kind of coincidental. And also that luckily for Mariska, it worked out a lot better her knowing her half siblings. They seemed to like laugh a lot together and have like a great bond. But also how her mother, Jane kind of felt like a lot of frustration being put in a box of this kind of character of, you know, the dumb blonde or even the smart dumb blonde. And how Mariska herself has entered the character. Right. Of Detective Benson without any apparent desire to deviate from that in her life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So everyone watched this movie. It's so moving. I definitely sobbed like by the end.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's so beautiful.

[Queenie Satine]

I do want to pose a question to you all though. It's a two prong question. First of all, why did Jane Marie, the eldest daughter, look like that pop singer Anastasia? She had like an acrylic French tip with a tinted aviator glass.

[Lauren Garrone]

She was like in a bed the whole time. She was like in her, like she.

[Queenie Satine]

Was glad she was, she was Jane junior.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I thought she looked like Sue Mengers.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, she had the energy certainly of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sue Mangers and the aviators and the hair and the skin tone.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, that leads me also to my second question.

[Lauren Garrone]

Why Anastasia is such a deep cut babe.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It wasn't lost on me.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, to our European audience, they'll know exactly who she is. Also my other question to both of you is why have attractive middle aged women readopted the Terry Richardson eyeglass knowing that when it was first in fashion, we looked back at it 10, 20 years later being like, oh, that looked ridiculous. But now they're wearing it again. Like Mariska had got on her Jeffrey Dahmer glasses and poured over the documents.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's porn.

[Queenie Satine]

Fair enough.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's a trickle down of porn. You know, like sexy librarian glasses, accountant. Yeah, exactly. It's very Only fans girl.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So I also wanna talk with you two about this incredible documentary that came out on HBO Max this month called Enygma, directed by Zachary Drucker, which was about Amanda Lear and April Ashley, these very pioneering trans women and their complicated relationship with each other. I knew nothing about this story. I mean, of course I knew about Amanda Learn, and I heard that she was trans. I don't know somewhat recently, but I was not familiar with April Ashley. Were you too familiar with her?

[Queenie Satine]

Only insofar as doing research in the last, like five years, I became aware of her, but I don't think she, like, as Amanda said, she was very famous in Britain.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's very. I feel like it's a British thing that a lot of, like, queer British people would know. But like, I, for me personally, especially someone who's watched so many trans history documentaries, I feel like I know a lot. And I didn't know about April.

[Queenie Satine]

I did only because, like, I was kind of tasked myself with expanding my knowledge of trans, like historical figures that were iconic and significant.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So both of these women worked at, what was it? Le Carrousel, which was a cabaret club in Paris in the 50s and 60s where a bunch of trans women worked.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like Cookie Nell, Bambi.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Bambi. Oh my God. And many of these performers were in this documentary, but both of these women worked there, allegedly. And you see how these two women went on these drastically different paths in their lives because Amanda Lear denied that she was trans.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, stealth.

[Lauren Garrone]

It was a lot of people, she chose a life of stealth. And April Ashley was unashamed and. And proud of who she was in a time where it was absolutely unacceptable and illegal to be who she was.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, actually became illegal as a result of her. Because of her and her marriage being kind of disputed by her husband, which.

[Lauren Garrone]

To me is wild, that all this litigation was because of this fucking asshole guy getting a divorce from her, I guess.

[Queenie Satine]

Before we delve into that, did you want to set up a little bit more?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No. Okay, go for it.

[Queenie Satine]

Okay. So I have to say also that God bless my father from the Soviet bloc, when he was like, oh, I might have a little femme on my hands, did a lot of research, including this kind of stuff, and presented me with a documentary also called Portrait of a Drag Queen, about international crisis, who was not a drag queen, a trans woman, but was one of Dali's muses also.

[Lauren Garrone]

And the most cunty, very highly kind.

[Queenie Satine]

Also pre transition in that film, the queen with mother flawless Sabrina and another.

[Lauren Garrone]

She'S one of the like 15 year old little twink babies, like in the.

[Queenie Satine]

Costume also in the chorus production.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, exactly. International crises. Another mistress of Dolly.

[Queenie Satine]

Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Just like Amanda Lear. What was Amanda Lear's name?

[Queenie Satine]

Pekky d'. Oslo.

[Lauren Garrone]

Pecky d' Oslo is so crazy. Becky d'. Oslo. I didn't know about that. I mean, I've always known that Amanda Lear was stealth and still stealth, which was like, so wild to me because ever since Caitlyn Jenner, it feels like, you know, everyone's coming out of their, like, stealth closet or you know what I mean?

[Queenie Satine]

Well, even Zachary was saying, like, it could be really kind of a good for her. Good for her professionally and in terms of press to, you know, tell her story. Which, at any rate, La Carrousel, right, was like, according to April, the club of all of Europe, right. The most club. What they were calling at the time, female impersonators. And that all the celebrities came, they were all gagged by, like, the degree of passability of these at the time referred to as female impersonators. But that Peggy d' Oslo came in and was kind of aspired to be all of them and kind of studied really hard, like, lived with April and kind of wanted to follow her trajectory.

[Lauren Garrone]

April was mother.

[Queenie Satine]

April was. Well, April was auntie, let's say, or like they were mothers.

[Lauren Garrone]

Big sis.

[Queenie Satine]

Yeah, big sis. Big sis.

[Lauren Garrone]

It was giving Big sis. But she took her in, she showed her.

[Queenie Satine]

She literally lived in the house with.

[Lauren Garrone]

Her, how to be cunty, stunty and gorgeous. Then Pekky d' Oslo was born and. And slowly became Amanda.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, okay, because also before Pecky, it was Alain, right, who was an art student in Paris, who was making these.

[Lauren Garrone]

Painted postcards, like, literally painting, like little paintings on the streets of Paris.

[Gabriel Held]

Like a little.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like a little art school baby.

[Queenie Satine]

And Pekky was plucked into the life, I mean, by her own choice. But what really was, like, revelatory for me in the revisionist history kind of aspect was, was when Pekki got arrested for what, holding. Was it Brian Jones? Drugs?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Queenie Satine]

And it was April who bailed her out and was cropped out of the photos where it seemed to be her and Brian Jones leaving jail.

[Lauren Garrone]

But then there was a bunch of news stories citing April's like 60 pieces.

[Queenie Satine]

Of evidence, photo and text evidence, which I have to say, Amanda, like, in a way, her commitment to being stealth. I do kind of think we should respect it.

[Lauren Garrone]

I respect it. I mean, if you're committing to the bit, no one commits to the, like a mandolier, like, no, this is a 50 year secret. You know what I mean? This is a 50 year, like, pub, everyone, literally. They made a whole movie about how you're lying and you're still convincing evidence.

[Queenie Satine]

Very compelling evidence as well.

[Lauren Garrone]

Darling. I've never seen that person in my life.

[Queenie Satine]

And the one who, like. There's photo documentation of April taking her out of jail. This woman, I heard she became very famous in Britain. I never met her.

[Lauren Garrone]

She's a portrays these people that were her mother, older sister, figures as, like, this woman that I met once before. I don't know much about her, whatever.

[Queenie Satine]

However, there was a common thread. Chelsea, did you do this deliberately when you selected the movies? Because there's a common thread about both of them being like, public Persona, private, who knows what.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was not deliberate. But I can't speak to the HBO Max corporate overlords for their Pride Month content.

[Queenie Satine]

But at any rate, it seemed amazing. Amanda was very vocal about how she courted. She learned from Dali. She said about when she first met him in public, he was kind of like being an asshole, being grand and being like, oh, if you want to be friends, don't show me your paintings because I will never like you again. And then behind closed doors, he was obsessed with her. And she also was like, no, we didn't have sex. He was like my brother and my lover. So she just said a lot of contradictory things that were a little bit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Hard to understand, but she definitely had sex with him. I loved that part where she said that celebrity is an act. You have to give people what they expect, which is so true. She created this Persona and this Persona that, of course, she created to make herself feel safe and all of that. It's such a fascinating story. All of that footage of her at the discos in the 70s. The looks, the outfits, the influence on fashion. I love how we saw her on the Gaultier catwalk and Mugler smoking a.

[Queenie Satine]

Cigarette through a hole in an acrylic nail as a cigarette holder. Very iconic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So good. So good. But I was so unfamiliar with April Ashley's story, which is so incredible. And honestly, I don't think I've ever seen anything more major than I don't know what show she was on. Some talk show where she showed up in the quote, unquote, medieval gown with the high hair. And the interviewer was like, oh, you look medieval. And she's like, actually, it's Japanese.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, also, she said her mother was Asian. She was born in Vietnam, which she didn't touch on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Queenie Satine]

And she was like, I have high cheekbones because my mother's Asian.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, but you're Talking about April Ashley.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, April, sorry.

[Gabriel Held]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

April's medieval look. Yeah. And she was like, actually clock the reference babes.

[Queenie Satine]

I think it's Japanese.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's Japanese.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was like the highest, most sculptural, like, out of a 60s vogue. And she was photographed by David Bailey and, like, all of these really amazing people during her modeling heyday.

[Lauren Garrone]

She was like a budding supermodel in the 60s and similar to a lot of model. Like, there was so many trans models.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, she was more or less of the Tracy Norman Africa story about a decade earlier in Britain, where she was working as a model, then got clocked, and then never got hired again.

[Lauren Garrone]

And that's why I love. Right now we're in this doll renaissance in fashion, where it's like, in fashion and in New York nightlife, the queens of everything are the dolls. And, like, model of the year, Alex Kinsani. Exactly. Literally. So I'm so happy that we've come to a place where dolls can be themselves and be out and not just be clothed.

[Queenie Satine]

Not in spite of being dolls, they're celebrated. But because they're dolls is part of why they're celebrating.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly. Because they've been woven into the history of fashion for ever, forever. Because a lot of dolls have the perfect canvas for clothing. You know, they're tall, thin, and gorge.

[Queenie Satine]

One thing I will say also that stuck out to me was in April's story, she married this noble person who she said behind closed doors was a cross dresser who would either get very jealous of her when men would hit on her in public but when they were behind closed doors, or get very jealous of her for being more feminine and more living in, I guess, like, classic chaser. Don't I know it? But I thought that was interesting and that was the catalyst for them changing all the laws, because when they went to court for divorce, he had said, I never knew that she was trans, you know, and therefore she tricked me. And we have to relitigate and change all the laws, which took about 40 years. Right. In England to correct that. You can't change your gender legally or marry because they either saw you as a man marrying a man or, I guess, nothing else.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. It's wild to me that her divorce was the catalyst like that for, like, for four decades of trans women not being able to marry and not being able to change their gender marker on their identification.

[Queenie Satine]

Very relevant today.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Literally, in a day and age where that is actively under attack from so many of the dolls.

[Queenie Satine]

As far as Amanda's concerned, though, do you all feel like it had a touch of gotcha journalism. Zachary was not disrespectful, but had a very clear point of view about talking to her and saying things like, I know what you've meant to me as a trans woman and what you mean to a lot of other trans women. If you were to share your story, you know, that was so significant.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And of course, well, that's the same thing with the Pee Wee documentary. Getting someone to come out in a documentary is a huge thing. But I agree with you, I kind of love that she was like, you know what? Fuck it, you're not getting it out of me. And you saw on her face, it wasn't like there was a lack of recognition when she looks like, no, it's so hard processing. Zachary Drucker.

[Lauren Garrone]

She knows it's funny to her. And actually her responses, the way that she slithers around saying the truth is like fascinating and funny. She's like, she has it. It's a little bit tongue in cheek. Just like all of her. Her lyrics of her songs. Right. It talks about exactly. Like all of her songs are really self referential to. It's like, I am a secret I am not telling you.

[Queenie Satine]

I'm unknowable.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly. So it's part of her whole thing is like she won't admit it, but she'll have a look in her eyes.

[Queenie Satine]

She'll allude to it at times.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly.

[Queenie Satine]

And she also said like, you know, she vehemently denied on a lot of talk shows and stuff. But then there were other ones where she was like, darling, it was my idea to court controversy. And even in her interview in this documentary, I feel like there were moments where I would have clocked them as like a slip up, but I don't think she slips up. And there were moments where she kind of was like, well, back then it was a lot more difficult to be a trans woman than it is now. And I'm like, I don't know that she was talking about other people, per se.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, she has a really fab way of just staying right on that line of, you know what she's saying. But she's saying it in a way where she's talking about, oh, yes, they've been through a lot. You know, like, she knows, but also.

[Queenie Satine]

Like, she was like, it was very. It would have been very difficult for a trans woman then to be out. And I mean, she basically mirrored back some things that Zachary said and skirted other things. But God knows how old she is because that's Also, the waters are muddied on the Internet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Are they?

[Queenie Satine]

They surely are.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What do we think? Like ballpark?

[Queenie Satine]

Mm. Close to 80, I would say.

[Lauren Garrone]

I feel like she's in her 80s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And she looks amazing.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, fantastic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And her pool looks fabulous.

[Queenie Satine]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, she's. Yeah, she's stunning. She looks incredible. Like girl, drop the surgeon phone number. Wherever in the world. Like Casablanca.

[Queenie Satine]

It was Casablanca.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They said. Yeah, they all went to Morocco.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, but like the. The face surgeon.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, the face. Yeah. You know what I mean? The face Surgeon is incredible.

[Queenie Satine]

Incredible, truly. I did also want to touch on that she. I am a photograph. And I think that was one of her songs. And I don't know. That resonates with me because I did all this work, as you know. I don't know if you know, Chelsea, but in my college thesis at art school in performance art about Beyonce being this self constructed but referential to her own constructed nature, I do remember that actually I am a photograph. So what exists beyond the photograph that I have kind of carefully curated is not relevant to the record of history. And also, I did want to touch briefly on if either of you read Kate Bornstein's Gender Outlaw.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I never have.

[Queenie Satine]

There's just not an argument, but like a topic posed there about passing and the double edged sword of passing, where it can be safe in certain social situations it can be for your own protection, but in other ways it can be alienating and isolating where you have to separate yourself from the whole previous portion of your life before transitioning and be unknowable in a full sense like that to even your close friends. Which, as we can see, Amanda was very.

[Lauren Garrone]

She didn't even like disclose like where her parents were from, like ethnically or whatever. She was like, yes, I come from oriental descent. Like, I'm like, girl, girl, please. Yeah. She's completely divorced herself from everything her life starts at.

[Queenie Satine]

Not even when Peggy Diazlo starts. It starts when. Which also in those arrest reports, she's called Pekky to Oslo.

[Lauren Garrone]

Mm.

[Queenie Satine]

And they're photographs and she's like, that's not me, darling. It's not me.

[Lauren Garrone]

She looks at the photo and she says, I see how someone could think that was me. But no, it's not me, darling. Exactly. It's not me. So good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So good. Everyone should watch this documentary. I could talk about it with you both forever. It is so amazing. Everyone should watch it. It's on hbo, Max. All of you horrors already have that. We know. But Gabriel, Queenie, thank you so much. For joining me today.

[Queenie Satine]

It was an honor.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh my God, seriously, an honor. This is my favorite podcast, so you're one of my favorite people ever. Honestly, both of you, honestly.

[Queenie Satine]

Likewise. And I have history, so much history with both of you. I shudder to think how many years.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exactly of history more than we've been alive for sure.

[Queenie Satine]

I mean, how can we be 23 and have known each other for 20 years? It's a preschool thing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Mommy and me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I love you both. Thank you for being here.

[Queenie Satine]

Well, thank you so much.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I will be back next week with Lauren who is done with her maternity.

[Lauren Garrone]

Leave with her Italian bambino and her.

[Queenie Satine]

Baby bambino, Big Mothel. To Lauren.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, exactly. Congrats. We love you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We love you, Lauren. And to everyone else, bye bye. We will see you next week.

[Queenie Satine]

Bye bye.

[Lauren Garrone]

It.