234: On And Just Like That: Party of One

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast

Episode 234: On And Just Like That: Party of One
Date: August 16, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Chelsea and Lauren raise a mimosa to the supposed series finale of "And Just Like That...", the Sex and the City sequel they've dissected, with gusto (and anguish), across 64 episodes. They question if the finale actually concludes much at all, debate the show’s persistent refusal to deliver satisfying, fun, or even logical closure, and ponder if a movie might, inevitably, await. Expect fashion roasts, character arcs scrutinized, and critical insight into what this finale says about aging, singledom, and the endurance of soul-sucking group meals.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is This Really Goodbye?

Timestamps: 00:26–01:22

• The hosts are celebratory but express fatigue:
  "We've dedicated days of our life over the last four years to this experiment. And now it's over. For now." — Lauren (00:46)
• They predict that if future SATC content happens, it may not bear the "And Just Like That" name.

2. Was That a Series Finale?

Timestamps: 01:30–02:52

• Chelsea is charitable to the writers, noting the episode feels more like a mid-season filler:
  "I want to give the writers a bit of grace because I don't think that this episode was written to be a series finale... I don't think enough was resolved even for a season finale." (01:30)
• Lauren, after several watches, says she's left with sadness more than snark.

3. The Episode’s Pervasive Tone: Humiliation

Timestamps: 02:20–02:52

• The Thanksgiving disaster motif—birthdays, group events—all seem designed for dysfunction:
  "The show is ultimately about humiliation and degradation. And not in that cool Isabelle Huppert way either." — Chelsea & Lauren (02:41)

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Recap: Key Scenes & Commentary

Carrie’s Hot Pot Humiliation

Timestamps: 02:52–06:14

• Carrie dines solo at Haidilao, receives a stuffed animal "companion"—a real practice, though optional:
  "The oppression of single people by society has always been a big theme on Sex and the City... but there is something about this that is simply too depressing." — Chelsea (04:20)
• Hosts dissect the iPad-ordering and robot-waiter gimmick; Michael Patrick King sees it as "the future," but the hosts mock the boomer anxiety: "Shouldn't Boomers love that shit?... Wouldn't that remind them of watching the Jetsons as a child?" — Lauren (05:42)

LTW’s Never-Ending Doc and Clumsy Exposition

Timestamps: 06:51–10:19

• LTW recruits friends to a bridal fashion show for her documentary, an awkward bit of setup.
• Producers’ obsession with exposition mocked:
  "As soon as I was thinking about the bridal fashion show and like, does that make sense? Uh oh. LTW has received a text message from the Obama's producer who says that Michelle Obama will not be participating..." — Lauren (08:17)
• A "will they/won’t they" between LTW and her (male) editor is built up but ends in mature non-action—found unsatisfying:
  "It's mature, actually... but we, of course, wanted her to cheat on her husband..." — Chelsea (11:24)
• Hosts discuss how the show avoids all moral transgressions for main characters post-Miranda's S1 arc.

Miranda & Steve: Finally, Friends

Timestamps: 14:26–16:04

• Miranda and Steve share a sweet scene over Mexican food, reflecting genuine progress post-divorce. "They're divorced, they're committed co-parents, and they're friends." — Lauren (14:55)
• Steve won't join Miranda’s Thanksgiving, and the hosts relish this scene as a rare moment of original-series comfort.

Seema & Adam: Weddings vs. Marriage

Timestamps: 16:11–19:03

• Seema’s boyfriend Adam is anti-marriage, conflating it with anti-wedding:
  "There's a difference between hating on the industrial wedding complex and thinking marriage is a scam. And I suppose both can be true." — Lauren (17:18)
• Adam’s manner is "giving the ick"—the hosts agree his attitude is grating, not philosophically interesting.

Bridal Fashion Show: Marriage Meditations

Timestamps: 19:22–21:45

• At a bridal fashion show, the girls debate whether marriage is still desirable after life's disappointments.
• Carrie admits the truth: "Why did you want to get married? Because it meant I was chosen." — Carrie (20:36)
• Chelsea: "It does feel gross. It makes sense if you know who Mr. Big is... It did feel like a callback to the Carrie of Sex and the City."

LTW & Charlotte: Would You Do It Again?

Timestamps: 22:49–24:51

• LTW and Charlotte candidly admit their lives center around men (one has a depressed husband, one a sick one)—yet would still do it all over again. Chelsea finds this bleak.

Carrie’s Moment of Truth

Timestamps: 25:07–27:27

• Carrie’s confessional monologue: She’s never truly faced unambiguous singledom, admitting even after Big died she entertained "maybe Aidan, maybe Duncan."
  "I have to quit thinking 'maybe a man' and start accepting 'maybe just me.'" — Carrie (26:10)
• The hosts critique how this "acceptance" rings downright grim, not triumphant.

Carrie’s Apartment, Money, and Missed Glam

Timestamps: 29:47–30:15

• The immense privilege of Carrie’s life—her hand-wringing over her garden style—annoys the hosts:
  "Her big dramas... her garden, the style of her garden, should I or should I not buy this table from FirstDibs... these are the problems she has." — Chelsea (36:31)
• They yearn for the fun, extravagant escapism Sex and the City once provided.

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Thanksgiving: The Party of None

Sex (for Harry & Charlotte), Pie (for Everyone Else), & Turmoil (for All)

Timestamps: 37:46–41:14

• Harry’s renewed sex drive and Charlotte’s reactions spark audience calls: "Why does Lily seem so happy about apparently knowing her parents are fucking? Like, what the fuck is that about?" — Listener voicemail (38:01)
• Carrie delivers Thanksgiving pies in an "Effie Trinket meets Emily in Paris" look: "It's a lot of tulle, it's magenta, there's a lot of plaid... She looks like she came straight from Whoville." — Lauren & Chelsea (40:18–48)
• Pie symbolism is obsessed over—MPK picked each pie for a reason, apparently.

Miranda’s Thanksgiving: The Youth Arrive

Timestamps: 43:32–46:26

• Miranda’s home is besieged by Brady, his girlfriend Mia, and friends Silvio and Epcot—two new "side characters twice removed," caricatures the hosts lambast as "the most offensive portrayals of gay and trans people that I have ever seen on television."
• Chelsea: "Everyone under 40 is, like, queer and trans and horrible." (46:41)
• The group’s focus: cheese, ironic allergies, and Epcot’s name—three times.

Victor Garber Returns, and... the Poop

Timestamps: 49:10–54:57

• Victor Garber’s (Charlotte’s art-world setup for Carrie) third appearance, baffling the hosts.
• The notorious scene: Garber flushes, the toilet overflows with Epcot’s (clearly fake) logs—NOT diarrhea:
  "I felt like violence had been committed against me when I had to see those logs floating up. It's Farrelly Brothers shit." — Chelsea (54:32)
• Lauren calls it a metaphor for the show: "Daddy MPK has inadvertently given us a brilliant metaphor for the show."

Aftermath: Picking Up the Pieces

Timestamps: 56:30–59:41

• Miranda, in rubber gloves, scrubs shit and receives Joy, hugging her with likely fecal matter on her hands.
• The Roosevelt portrait in Miranda’s apartment is spotted, underlining her full lesbian transformation.

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Final Montage: Everyone’s Alone, But... Okay?

Timestamps: 59:45–64:27

• Carrie eats pumpkin pie solo (famously not even bothering with crust), listens to a karaoke backing track (no SJP vocals), echoes the original series finale structure but with less emotional punch.
• The episode flashes to characters:
  • Anthony & Giuseppe: pie in the face, then reconciliation.
  • Rock & Charlotte: discuss deleted photos, imply gender expression is fluid for them.
  • LTW: presumably can "finally relax," but this isn't shown.
• Carrie deletes her novel’s hopeful epilogue, typing:
  "The woman realized she was not alone. She was on her own." (64:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Carrie, on “being chosen”:
  "Because it meant I was chosen." — Carrie (20:36)
  Reaction: "I gasped... it is a very satisfying answer, but on the other side of things, it just feels gross." — Lauren (20:38)

• Chelsea on the show’s moral timidity:
  "They have banned the characters from having any sort of, like, moral transgression, you know, apart from Miranda, who did, of course, cheat on Steve in the first season, but that feels like a lifetime ago." (11:24)

• Lauren on show’s glum tone:
  "After 30 some hours of story, Carrie's finally admitting something she could have admitted in season two, that in the back of her mind she always thought Aiden was an option." (26:49)

• On the infamous toilet scene:
  "I felt like violence had been committed against me when I had to see those logs floating up... It's Farrelly Brothers shit." — Chelsea (54:32)

• On the final epilogue line:
  "The woman realized she was not alone. She was on her own." — Carrie (64:27)
  "Marissa texted me and was like 'A one sentence epilogue. She tore that.'” — Lauren (64:34)

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Hosts’ Unanswered Questions and Theories

Timestamps: 65:18–72:00

• Will Michelle Obama ever narrate LTW's doc?
• Will Carrie's book be published, and to what response?
• Will Seema/Adam, Anthony/Giuseppe stay together?
• What about Brady’s baby?
• Will any of these plotlines ever get resolution, or will “And Just Like That” continue to fizzle out in dangling threads?

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Reflections & Final Thoughts

• The episode and likely series end on a note of "acceptance" for solo life—but the hosts see little that's genuinely celebratory in Carrie’s supposed triumph.
• They compare the finale to Sex and the City’s original ending—concluding this "update" does not stick the landing.
  "Everything in this episode is showing us that being single is humiliating... the tone of this entire season is sad." — Chelsea (66:12)
• They debate whether this ending is even worse than Sex and the City 2’s much-maligned wrap-up, concluding at least Samantha was still having fun back then.

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Series Finale Dissection: 01:30–02:52
• Carrie’s Hot Pot Scene: 02:52–06:14
• LTW/Marian Non-Affair: 06:51–13:38
• Miranda & Steve's Dinner: 14:26–16:04
• Carrie’s Monologue on Singledom: 25:28–29:13
• Fashion Commentary (Carrie’s Thanksgiving Look): 40:18–41:14
• Victor Garber & Toilet Catastrophe: 49:10–54:57
• Epilogue & Closing Montage: 59:45–64:27

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Notable Listener Engagement

• Multiple callers express horror at familial sex revelations, the toilet sequence, and the lack of closure for long-simmering plotlines.

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In Summary

Chelsea and Lauren send off "And Just Like That" with wit, exasperation, and a sense of relief. They bemoan the finale’s squandering of emotional and narrative payoffs, roast its glum take on aging and relationships, and close with hope for a future that finally lets the women of Sex and the City—and the viewers—have a little fun.

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For more, check out their after show and upcoming events in LA. Final listener call: “Sometimes I feel like putting my hands up in the air... but you've got the love I need to see me through.”

Transcript

[A]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[B]

Coral?

[A]

The Sting turn to buy our little dress. Floral. The Sting. Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

[B]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[A]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[B]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[A]

And welcome to the last and just like that, recap on the every outfit podc.

[B]

Lauren and I are drinking mimosas Today we're having a bit of a celebration because this is the 64th episode we have done about. And just like that, between the main episodes and the Patreon episodes, we have.

[A]

Dedicated days of our life over the last four years to this experiment.

[B]

And now it's over. For now.

[A]

I know we'll get into it. Michael Patrick King says that for him the gas tank is empty. And you know, we shouldn't get our hopes up that there'll be an end just like that movie. But there's going to be an end just like that movie.

[B]

I think one day there will be something I don't think it will be called and just like that, I think like Sex and the City too. They will want to run far away from what they have done and do something that exists in response to end. Just like that. That's my theory, but we'll get into that more later.

[A]

As Stanford once said, beverages are present. So let's get into it. What did you think of this series finale, Chelsea?

[B]

Well, I want to give the writers a bit of grace because I don't think that this episode was written to a series finale. But also I don't think enough was resolved even for a season finale. This ultimately left me with more questions than answers and I don't want to get ahead of myself, but I cannot believe that we will never witness the release of LTW's DOC or Carrie's book.

[A]

Yeah, it's funny. So I've watched this episode three times and by the end of the third time I was like, I don't even think I have anything bitchy to say. I'm just filled with sadness. Because you're right, this episode doesn't even make for a good season finale compared to the other season finales, this is a mid season filler episode at best.

[B]

Another thing that struck me about this episode, as well as the episode with Charlotte's birthday party, is that the writers are only interested in creating the worst birthday party, the Thanksgiving from hell. For like they don't want to create a group scenario that is actually fun and fabulous in that way that Sex and the City was fun and Fabulous. And after watching this episode, it really affirmed my belief that this show is ultimately about humiliation and degradation.

[A]

And not in that cool Isabelle au pair way either.

[B]

No.

[A]

So for those of you who have been with us on this long and arduous journey, you know that we've typically, the format we followed is breaking down these episodes character by character. We feel like with this episode, that is not possible. And unfortunately, we must go in chronological order, starting with Carrie trying hot pot for the first time.

[B]

Yes, she's gone to. What is that restaurant called?

[A]

It is called Heidi Lau, which is a restaurant that has a location in. In Queens, but it is in Century City. And in listening to the Writers Room.

[B]

Podcast, it was in Los Angeles.

[A]

Yeah, Sorry. For those who don't live in la, it is at a fabulous outdoor mall called the Westfield Century City. And. And it is inspired by Michael Patrick King's experience going to Haidilao and just being very unnerved by the experience, which is exactly what happens to Carrie Hotpot. Not an experience to do alone. It really is a group activity.

[B]

Hey, it could have been worse. She could have gone to Benihana by herself.

[A]

Now, that I would love to see. Yeah. The only one that I would recommend going to Haidila by themselves would be Miranda.

[B]

So Carrie has to face the humiliation of dining with Tommy Tomato.

[A]

That's right. Because if you are a woman eating alone, which is something that Michael Patrick King learned not because he was a woman eating alone, but he subsequently heard that for female diners who are by themselves, they put this stuffed animal there.

[B]

Apparently, they do ask if you want it or not, though. They don't just force it upon you. Look, the oppression of single people by society has always been a big theme on Sex in the City from the beginning. Beginning. But there is something about this that is simply too depressing, especially given the larger point that they are trying to make with this episode.

[A]

And again, I hate to nitpick, but it does call into question because Heidi Lau is in Flushing, Queens. Did she go to Flushing's to try this restaurant? Because she's like, you know, I just decided to come in because it looked interesting.

[B]

Yeah, it's weird because it is a famous restaurant. So especially with New Yorkers that are watching this, they're going to know where that restaurant is.

[A]

But in listening to the Writers Room podcast, and it's how I felt watching the scene. Because Carrie seems. She's not only humiliated, but she seems perplexed when she's given an iPad and has to order through an iPad. And this comes straight from Michael Patrick King's experience of eating there. And he kept referring to it as the future because robots are delivering food to you, which Carrie makes this point later in the episode. And I'm like, but it's not the future. If it's happening now, it's happening in the present. And also, shouldn't Boomers love that shit? Boomers 1 always on their iPad.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, the one thing they do know how to use. Sorry, that's so rude.

[A]

I don't care. I'm going full mask off ageist in this podcast episode. If you are a boomer listener of our podcast, I am of course not referring to you. But secondly, wouldn't someone of Carrie and Michael Patrick King's age love a robot delivering food? Because wouldn't that remind them of watching the Jetsons as a child?

[B]

Okay, that's so rude.

[A]

Why is that rude?

[B]

You're probably right, though, but these are.

[A]

The things I'm thinking of instead of being present in the episode, because I'm like, this is so bizarre.

[B]

I just don't want Tommy Tomato and Carrie Bradshaw to exist in the same world.

[A]

The second time I was watching this episode, I was watching it with a friend, and she said upon seeing Carrie's outfit, God, Carrie loves teal.

[B]

Yeah, this outfit was something I actually did. Kind of like the way her sweater related to the tights that were under her skirt. Although a very modest outfit. The kind of thing that you could, like, conceal a pregnancy under in the 1950s.

[A]

Yeah, I think the mixture of the teal off the shoulder chunky sweater and the plaid long skirt, it was giving 1950s schoolgirl.

[B]

Perhaps the plaid was very present in this episode, but we will get more into that later. Meanwhile, LTW is editing her doc, a task that she will never complete. She's been working on this documentary for 6 years.

[A]

I don't know what's better. LTW last season, who was relegated to her closet slash editing suite, or just being in this editing suite that is just, at the very least, not inside her home.

[B]

So one of the unsung black sheroes is the fashion designer Ann Low. And she's apparently gotten some other black fashion designer, a contemporary designer, to be one of the talking heads in the documentary.

[A]

I'm sorry, Chelsea, I think you mean a bridal baller, which is how Marian refers to her.

[B]

And LTW was basically like, this chick would only agree to be in my dock if I agreed to go to her bridal fashion show and bring all.

[A]

Of my fabulous Friends, which is the first of many clunky bits of exposition dialogue which I understand the purpose of it. It's to explain why these ladies ultimately are at this bridal fashion show. But it is not how anyone would actually speak. True, this woman sat down for an interview with me, but would not sign the release until I agreed to bring my friends to her fashion show. What?

[B]

Yeah, that's psycho.

[A]

But it doesn't matter because this is the thing about this episode. As soon as there is a question thing that doesn't quite make sense, a new questionable thing that doesn't make sense enters the chat and you have to focus on that. As soon as I was thinking about the bridal fashion show and like, does that make sense? Uh oh. LTW has received a text message from the Obama's producer who says that Michelle Obama will not be participating in this documentary because as we've all known, she's too well known.

[B]

But if you send her a rough cut, she may consider narrating the series. I love that we're still ending on an if. It's not even like we've confirmed Michelle Obama for the doc and she's clearly.

[A]

Not going to be in the show, so who cares?

[B]

Yeah, why is it like this? And not just Marian being like, I secretly sent a rough cut to this person and Michelle saw it and she loves it and she is going to narrate the series.

[A]

This is the preposterous thing about. And just like that is the episodes are twice the length of the original series, so there's more time to tell a story and. And yet we keep circling the drain. Right? Because that would have been enough for him to be like, don't get mad. I sent it to my friend who's the Obama producer and blah, blah, blah. No, we had to have LTW meet this producer at a different screening two episodes ago for this to be paid off of like. Well, they still might participate in it in a future season. That won't be happening. But does it matter? Because this is just. We needed to have this to wrap up the storyline between the almost torrid affair between Marion and ltw. And they shoot up out of their seats and embrace each other passionately. And you're like, okay, here we go. They're gonna kiss. No. LTW is like, I can't go to dinner with you. I can't go to even drinks because of what's going on. And they acknowledge the tension between them without ever really putting it into direct words.

[B]

Okay, I kind of don't get this because it's like, isn't being in a tiny, windowless room alone with someone, even if you're working, like, a lot more intimate than going to a bar or a restaurant?

[A]

You say this as you and I sit in a windowless room. Yeah. There's a lot of things that don't make any sense.

[B]

It has to be about work. I mean, can it just be about work? Because it has to be.

[A]

I got it.

[B]

You're married.

[A]

I'm married.

[B]

Yeah. I'm married.

[A]

Yeah. Just said that. Yeah. I am a very good editor, and.

[B]

I know enough not to put the.

[A]

Next Whatever this is scene into our movie. It would ruin everything for both of us. We'll work it out. We'll work it out. I just said that, too. Work. I somehow find this way worse. Do you, Chelsea, that it's like, oh, so there is tension between the two of them. They acknowledge that it is not in each other's heads. They are going to continue working with each other. They're just not going to act on it.

[B]

I don't think that's worse at all. I think that's mature, actually. I think the reason why this is not a satisfying conclusion is because we, of course, wanted her to cheat on her husband with this man in the same way that it's like I wanted Aiden to walk in while Duncan was fucking Carrie. Throughout this season, they have been teasing these two love triangles, and neither of them have come to fruition because on this show, it's like they've banned the characters from having any sort of, like, moral transgression, you know, apart from Miranda, who did, of course, cheat on Steve in the first season, but that feels like a lifetime ago. It feels like on end, just like that. They need the characters, especially Carrie, to be pure in this way.

[A]

Well, also, they denigrated Steve to a degree that it was almost like, well, can you blame Miranda?

[B]

So true.

[A]

And in listening to the Writers Room podcast, which I feel like you pointed out a couple of episodes ago, that it feels like an alternate reality, because when you hear them explain their process behind this decision, it makes a lot of sense and it is very mature. They discuss the fact that they talked out every kind of scenario. The pie in the face scenario where Marian was gay and it was all in ltw's head, the one where they do actually kiss each other, and they decided that this, yes, was the more mature way to go. And again, when they explain it, it makes sense. But then when you watch the show and its execution, you're like, this doesn't make any sense. And it's incredibly unsatisfying. And to your point, even in that bit of dialogue, hearing it again, it's still unresolved because they're like, well, we'll figure it out down the line.

[B]

I thought them acknowledging this was basically the end of their romance or that's how I saw it. I don't know. To me it's just kind of crazy because married people do occasionally have affairs. Like that is a very common thing. And they choose to stay married to their partners after that for whatever reason. I think it would be a lot more interesting if LTW did fuck him. But then ultimately her and Herbert stay together.

[A]

Yeah, they stay together for the kids, they stay together for appearances because he's still actively running a campaign.

[B]

Again, they stay together because they still love each other. And sometimes people make mistakes, especially in a long ass marriage. Like I just think that since they already told the story of Miranda and Steve who broke up because of infidelity or in part because of infidelity, it would be interesting to explore that with these characters since nothing else interesting happens in their life.

[A]

Sorry, which time? Miranda and Steve infidelity in the movie where he cheated and they got back together? Or the first season just like that where she cheated and they broke up?

[B]

I'm just saying. And just like that could use a lot more bad behavior. It doesn't mean that the characters are bad people.

[A]

Speaking of Steven, Miranda, Steve makes one final appearance in the series. They are at a Mexican restaurant. A different Mexican restaurant than we saw earlier in the season. I guess because Miranda is so embarrassed or too embarrassed with the guacamole girl. Remember that?

[B]

Yeah, of course. I really liked this scene. It felt like I was coming home. I think because these characters are so familiar, we've been with them for so many years. It is nice to have a scene with the OGs, of course, and also.

[A]

Seeing them come to a new place in their relationship that we have not seen before. Which frankly was my hope of how we would meet them at the beginning of. And just like that, which is they are divorced, they are committed co parents and they are friends.

[B]

And now Steve has gotten to the point where he can ask Miranda about her love life and her new girlfriend because he's moved on.

[A]

Well, clearly, I mean, there was no doubt that Steve was gonna move on. But this scene also tells us that Steve will not be at Miranda's Thanksgiving.

[B]

Because can you blame him? We also get a bit of lore that Miranda has been putting condoms in Brady's stocking since he was 14 and.

[A]

Even once demonstrated how to put it on on a banana. And this comes out because they are apoplectic that they are going to be grandparents. And it's like, no, no, no, guys, he knows how to use a condom. He just didn't use one with Mia. As any person in their mid-50s, especially someone who lives in a metropolitan city, they are aghast that they are going to be grandparents. But they each come to a place where there's no way that they're not going to be in this grandchild's life.

[B]

Yeah, it's a sweet scene. A less sweet scene would be when we're checking in with Seema and Adam.

[A]

Adam, who is somehow getting uglier by the episode and I fear maybe turning into a GEICO caveman.

[B]

This wig that he is in is fucking crazy.

[A]

I hope it's a wig.

[B]

It is definitely a wig. I hadn't noticed it until this episode, but in this shower scene, it is very clearly a wig. Either that or it's the worst hair I've ever seen on television.

[A]

So Seema is getting ready. Adam goes to use the bathroom. We see him peeing. We also see his ass, but in another insane bit of clunky exposition. Because, Chelsea, I don't know if you clocked this. Seema isn't going to the bridal fashion show. She explains to Adam that business is picking up, so she is going into her office early because she is going to a bridal fashion show tomorrow afternoon. Why can't she be on the way to the bridal fashion show? Why do we need to do all of that business?

[B]

I have no idea. But this scene is here to tell us that Adam is non traditional. He doesn't give a fuck about Thanksgiving and he doesn't care about marriage.

[A]

So what I find interesting about this episode is I feel like there's a lot of conflation between weddings and marriage. There's a difference between hating on the industrial wedding complex and, like, thinking marriage is a scam. And I suppose both can be true. But I feel like Adam is conflating the two and, by the way, giving me the ick. The way he's talking about marriage and his hatred of it, where he's like, do you take this person? Do you take this person? Let's sign a piece of paper.

[B]

Okay, but let's be real. Involving the government in your relationship is objectively weird. I'm kind of on his side with that one.

[A]

No, no. By the way, if he phrased it that way, that would Be fine. I'm just saying the language he's using is giving me the ick.

[B]

No, I agree. And I think it's totally normal to have this viewpoint. And I think there's a more normal way to say that than how he comes across in this scene, which, yeah, he comes across as a little bit callous and kind of pompous when there's no reason for that.

[A]

And we learn in a later scene that Seema believes that he is on marriage, or should I say shitting on marriage. Don't you get it, Chelsea? Because he's peeing when he's talking about this. He's pissing all over the idea of marriage. Huh? Get it? But Seema believes that he doesn't believe in marriage because it was never modeled for him because his mother was never married. And it's like, okay, but he's a 40 year old man. He. He's witnessed other people who are married.

[B]

It's not his vibe.

[A]

Which, by the way, I would sort of imagine if I was dating a guy that does not believe in deodorant, doesn't believe in Thanksgiving, which he's not wrong about that. I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense that you don't exactly believe in the institution of marriage either.

[B]

Considering this is a Thanksgiving episode, it's shocking that Rock did not make an offhand comment about how fucked up Thanksgiving is. Anyway, moving on to the bridal fashion show, they're at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden. This is a very popular venue for weddings. A fuckette even got married there.

[A]

Yes. And when we saw this in the trailer, we sort of assumed that maybe a character would be getting married. But no, it is all to have a conversation about the institution of marriage. If you get to a certain age and you're still single, would you want to get married again if you've been in it for decades? Is it worth even doing a worthwhile conversation to have?

[B]

But you shouldn't be having it if you're in the front row of a fashion show.

[A]

I do want to highlight. As they're walking to the fashion show and Carrie tells them about her experience with Tommy Tomato, Charlotte says a very Karen Y thing where it's like, we should write something on Yelp. So Seema is discussing with Carrie that she's not even sure if she wants to get married or be married. Obviously she's gotten to an age.

[B]

She obviously wants to get married. That's why there's tension with Adam. That's why this plotline exists.

[A]

Well, but she does acknowledge or has society just made me feel like I should be married for sure. Which before I can even contemplate that, Carrie says something. And again, I watched this episode three times and it shocked me each and every time. Seema asked Carrie, why did you want to get married?

[B]

Because it meant I was chosen.

[A]

I gasped. Now at one, it is a very satisfying answer and acknowledges certainly some people's issue with the show that Carrie, even though the ending of Sex and the City is the greatest relationship is the one you have with yourself, but then she does end up marrying a man. And the whole first film is about her getting married to Big. But on the other side of things, it just feels gross. You were chosen.

[B]

It does feel gross. It makes sense if you know who Mr. Big is. Because for someone like Mr. Big to be chosen by Mr. Big, that is kind of like a flex, you know, like Mr. Big chose me. I get that this is regressive, but I understand where it came from. It did feel like a callback to the carry of Sex and the City in a certain respect.

[A]

That's what I was going to say is as regressive as it is. It is somehow satisfying to the long term Sex in the City watcher and certainly the recent appraisal of Carrie in social media that she's acknowledging, like, yeah, it was kind of needy and I needed that.

[B]

Yeah, I liked it. I like when this show does something that's a little bit spicy. It doesn't happen very often. So when it does, I appreciate it.

[A]

Does it feel a little weird that this is coming at the end of season three, that we've been toiling away with three seasons where Carrie has basically been single?

[B]

Yeah. I think that the themes in this episode should have been laid out in the first episode of the season and we should have ended, like, in the first season. She's like, I hate being single, I hate being alone. But by the end of it, she's like, I love this. They're trying to cram this all in to a single episode, essentially, in a.

[A]

Way that you would think with no context, that they were only allowed this brief miniseries to make all of these points.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Again, even if there was another season of this show, it just feels so wasteful to have taken 34 hours to make this point.

[B]

A point that was, like you said, made in the first season. Should we get into LTW and Charlotte?

[A]

Of course they are next to the single gals bitching about marriage because they're looking at all of these young, impressionable women who are just simply there probably looking for their future wedding dress. But I think it's because ltw, like, clocks a young girl and she's like, she's about to get indoctrinated. You know, all these women, they don't understand what marriage is really about. And it's like, yes, again, we're conflating a wedding and a marriage. Like a wedding is one day. A marriage is a long term commitment built on trust and communication that ideally lasts the rest of your life.

[B]

So they bitch about their marriages just because their lives are very centered around their husbands, because Harry has prostate cancer and can't fuck and Herbert is depressed because he lost the election. But ultimately they're like, you know what? I'd do it again.

[A]

Which is so depressing. I mean, again, like the Carrie acknowledging that she was chosen by Big and that's why she wanted marriage. I mean, that is the structure of the conversation between her and Seema. It's great that LTW and Charlotte are acknowledging that their lives are centered around men, but it highlights the fact that in this show about women that again, we could be focusing on these women and their rich, interior lives. It is dominated by men.

[B]

It really is calling attention to that because there's no reason why their husbands couldn't have been background characters in the way that, say, Brady is. And that was the whole thing with Sex and the City. Right? Our friends are our soulmates. Everyone else is just kind of in the periphery.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's how Big ultimately wins back the three girls, where he's like, you are the loves of their life. And a guy is lucky to. To be in 4th place. So LTW asked Charlotte, if you knew what marriage would be like, would you still have done it? Which is an interesting and devastating proposition. But in true and just like that fashion is, any attempt at tension is immediately deflated when they're both like, yeah, you know, I would.

[B]

Well, sure. Any long term relationship is bound to come with challenges. I don't think that means it's not worth it. And that's basically what they're saying, of course. So Carrie and Char get a walk and talk.

[A]

Hallelu.

[B]

Thank God. I do want to point out that there are no scenes with Carrie, Charlotte and Miranda together in this episode, which does feel like a bit of a slap in the face. But anyway, this scene is kind of great because Charlotte's like, bitch, you've gotta see my new wallpaper in my hallway. And Carrie's like, I'm gonna die alone.

[A]

Yes, I know. I've lived alone a lot, but I've.

[B]

Never lived alone without the thought that I wouldn't be alone for long. Even when Big died, after the. After the shock and the total devastation, in the back of my mind, I.

[A]

Thought, aiden, maybe Aiden.

[B]

And recently, though, Duncan, you know, clearly.

[A]

Told me I'm not coming back.

[B]

I thought, maybe.

[A]

But I have to.

[B]

Quit thinking maybe a man and start accepting maybe just me, a few things.

[A]

I could talk about this monologue from Carrie for an hour. I won't. But a few things, maybe Aiden.

[B]

Well, it was in the back of her head.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

It's easier to get out of one relationship. Not like she had a choice in the matter, but if you do have someone on the back burner, someone on the bench, a prospect. And as she is saying, that is a very different experience of being single when you feel like you have prospects versus when you feel like you don't.

[A]

For sure. It's just fascinating that in this final episode, which to be fair, we all believe no one knew it would be their final episode. But just again, after 30 some hours of story, that Carrie's finally admitting something she could have admitted in season two, that in the back of her mind she always thought Aiden was an option is I find stunning. The other stunning thing is the fact that she doesn't refer to him as John. She calls him Big, which I feel like she hasn't. Well, except for the was Big a big mistake? Which is a fun pun. She's always referred to him as John.

[B]

Yeah. I think the interesting thing about this scene is when she says, I have to stop thinking maybe a man and start accepting maybe just me. I think the word accepting is noteworthy because I think where this episode ends, it is trying to tell us that Carrie is happy being single. There's nothing wrong with being single. And of course, all of that is true. But what they show us in this episode is that she is actually really grappling with that reality. Whether they're showing this to us in the scene with Tommy Tomato, or the fact that she's telling Charlotte, like, I just have to accept my reality. Accepting suggests a struggle.

[A]

Well, yeah, it's an interesting insight into Carrie Bradshaw, a character who has been with us for nearly 30 years, that in the back of her mind, even in the darkest moments of season five, she always thought that there would be a new man on the horizon.

[B]

That makes sense. But that also speaks to age. When you're younger, when you're single, you're maybe not thinking, this is the end of me having a partner or me Being in a romantic relationship.

[A]

And obviously this is correcting something from the original series. That's not just a feeling I get from watching it. They do confirm it in the writers room podcast. But I feel like we've been dealing with that for the past two seasons. As I said, Carrie is alone at the end of season one. She's alone at the end of season two. I enjoy the conversation and I think it is a real conversation of women of that age, especially ones that have lost their husbands, their partners or spouses, what have you. But I just feel like it needed a bit of Sex and the City sparkle, where it's like, okay, maybe I won't have another great love, but I'll have many lovers. Because she's basically committing herself to a spinster life. Quite like the woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a difference between accepting, oh, I might not have another great love of my life, and being like, I'm alone and. And I'm choosing to be alone and life is done.

[B]

Well, I think the thing with Carrie is that, like, you can be single and not be alone, but Carrie is constantly alone because she's a shut in. In her Gramercy park apartment. She could have a more full social life where there's more people around her, more of a sense of community, but we don't get that because her preferred lifestyle choice is being the woman.

[A]

Correct. And as someone, as we've seen, again, we don't know what happened in between the series and the movies and such, but has not traveled a ton. And now you have all this big money again, there is this bizarre tension within, just like that which Patrick brought up, which is they are incredibly wealthy women, but they don't do anything fun that people with a lot of money would do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Such as travel. Quite like they did in the first Sex of the City film and the second Sex and the City film.

[B]

Yeah, I forget, does Carrie still have that house in the Hamptons?

[A]

Don't even get me started about the house in the Hamptons. Do you know how hurt I am that we didn't get a bottle episode?

[B]

There's so many season one things that we've all just collectively forgot about. One being the house in the Hamptons. Another thing which you brought to my attention recently was that in season one, Carrie had an Instagram account where she basically took, like street style creep shots of people. Does anyone remember that?

[A]

That was, I believe, season one, episode one, Minute one. When they're at the lunch together and she's like. I don't think she refers to Instagram as the gram, but she might as well. She's like, ooh, that's a great outfit. For my gram. For the gram. It's been blowing up lately. Something like that. Okay, we must move on to Thanksgiving. But before Thanksgiving, LTW goes home and she recommits herself to marriage with Herbert, and I guess never tells her husband that she and her hot editor have feelings for each other.

[B]

Okay, we got a call from Patrick that we have to play, by the.

[A]

Way, if your wife ever comes home. And it's like, chelsea Fairless, I take.

[B]

Thee to be my lawfully wedded bride. You'd be like, who did you.

[A]

Okay. It's so funny that Patrick said that, because when I was watching it with Paul, we both were like. Immediately, I'd be like, what did you do?

[B]

It's so true. That is the biggest red flag I can imagine.

[A]

Hey. Hey, hold my hand. Chelsea. Chelsea. Here. I just want to. I just want you to understand and know that I'm committed to you. In ball gowns or sweatsuits. I love you. You'd be like, are you starting a podcast with someone else?

[B]

Yeah, literally. And it made me think, like, are all vow renewals deeply, Susan.

[A]

Oh, I mean, this is neither the time nor place, but Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Peltz Beckham renewed their vows three years into their marriage, and they're in their early 20s.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy. I get it if it's like, your 30 year or something.

[A]

When Ozzy and Sharon renewed their vows on the Osbournes, which I've been recently rewatching, that was sweet. Like, if your husband was so high and drunk he doesn't remember your wedding, and you're still married 30 years later, that's a legitimate reason to renew your vow, for sure. But when Heidi Klum and Seal got remarried, every anniversary, that is pre divorce behavior.

[B]

Okay, but that was cute until they got divorced.

[A]

I think they got married on a glacier one year.

[B]

Anyway, for some reason, Herbert did not read between the lines with that one.

[A]

Because he's a man. He's a straight man. He was like, oh, okay. All right. So now we're at Thanksgiving morning because Adam doesn't believe in Thanksgiving. He has no problem going to Carrie's apartment, working on her garden, and Carrie.

[B]

Sort of lightly grills him about his intentions with Seema.

[A]

Carrie has been writing the woman too long. Because the way she asks this is. Well, you obviously don't believe in Thanksgiving. It's just another Thursday to you. Is Seema just a Thursday to you?

[B]

I thought that was a great passive aggressive way of asking that.

[A]

I know, but the way that Adam responds, he goes, no, she's special in a way that made me wonder, is Adam on the spectrum again? Logan Marshall Green. I have seen him in other things. He is very good in Prometheus. He is good in a movie called Upgrade. He is a very hot individual. I do not understand any of this. I do not understand why he looks like that in this show. I do not understand why he's acting like this.

[B]

To be fair, he was hot when he was first introduced.

[A]

Something happened which, by the way, could be funny again. I always think of the storyline they were going to do with Trey, or the initial idea of Trey was he looks perfect, but he's incredibly boring. And Charlotte can't get over that. And then they cast Kyle MacLachlan, who is incredibly personable person, and they could not do that storyline. The idea of dating an extremely hot guy who just becomes like more boring and less attractive feels like something out of the original series.

[B]

Yeah, but I don't think that was necessarily intentional here. He's basically like, no, Seema is a queen. I'm gonna treat her right in so many words. And then Carrie does a full 180 with the garden. She's like, you know what? Instead of this more traditional manicured garden that you've made for me, I would actually like to go back to exactly how it was before the rat infestation.

[A]

I want it to be more wild. I want it to be more me.

[B]

What was stopping you before is what I'm not understanding. It would be one thing if Charlotte was having this gardening dilemma and she's like, now that gone, I want this waspy ass garden to look more wild and free. But it's not like Aiden or Duncan or there was anyone telling her her garden needed to be a certain kind of way or the garden was representative of a relationship.

[A]

In listening to the writers room podcast, the feeling that I get is that all of the decisions between buying Gramercy the table that she got for Aiden, which we'll get into that in a second, that is now gone. And the garden was all to please.

[B]

Aiden, which Aiden didn't even like the table though.

[A]

Okay, that's for one. And also, as you know, we're not Aiden apologists. And boy did in just like that make all of the Aiden lovers Aiden haters. But I think we can all agree that table is not something that Aiden would ever choose. But Also again, at 1, it is great that they are acknowledging I hope they're acknowledging this idea that Aiden was making Carrie be someone she wasn't in the series. That's why they didn't in the original series, that's why they ultimately could not be together, why she couldn't marry him, etc. Etc. However, in this version of Aiden, who lives down in Virginia on a big piece of land, all of these decisions feel unmotivated by the Aiden that is presented to us. I think he would also love a wild garden.

[B]

He would prefer a wild garden. He lives in the country.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

He doesn't like this hoity toity stuff, you know, as evidenced by his interaction with Duncan. I don't know not to be this person, but I think this all really speaks to Carrie's immense privilege that the big dramas of her life, apart from the Aiden and Duncan of it all, is her garden, the style of her garden. And should I or should I not buy this table from first dibs? Like, these are the problems that this woman has in her life.

[A]

And again, that could be fun. You do not watch the Real Housewives, but there is a conversation within Housewives fans where every season the Housewives, they go on trips and in recent years and as the seasons go along, unfortunately, they become more and more pedestrian. You know, they go from like villas and yachts to like going to La Jolla and staying at an Airbnb. And there's been this conversation amongst Housewives fans where it's like, I don't want to see vacations I could take. I want to see vacations I cannot take. And that's how I feel about Carrie, where it's like, we can all see that she's immensely wealthy and yet none of the fun shit about that.

[B]

So meanwhile at the Goldenblatt residence, Harry is hard. Charlotte is going to get fucked again.

[A]

We don't even get a funny. It's not even that funny, but a Harry's hard on pun.

[B]

I have no problem with that personally. He's hard. He announces it to Charlotte. They run to the bedroom to go fuck. We have a call to play.

[A]

Hi, girls. I'm just calling because I came back from a really drunken night and I watched the new. And just like that episode, why does Lily seems so happy about apparently knowing her parents are fucking? Like, what the fuck is that about?

[B]

Lily's vibe is truly insane. It's the vibe of a cupid that has just taken a little bow and arrow and shot two people and now they're fucking. It's very like Tee hee hee. My parents are fucking.

[A]

Which. Okay. I have a close relationship with my parents.

[B]

Do they tell you when they're fucking?

[A]

No. But I feel like if Lily was the age she actually was, which is in her early 20s, it would be less weird. There is something very bizarre about a high schooler. Like, I feel like my response to my aunt would be different if my parents were having sex at 23 than 17. But I guess if, you know, you're a high schooler who recently got out of a non consensual polycule that I guess she. I don't know, they presented Lily like she's a cast off from Larry Clark's kids or something. It's like Lily seed a lot. Okay.

[B]

But like, teenagers should not know that.

[A]

Their parents are fucking 100%.

[B]

Especially in a New York apartment. It's one thing if, like, your parents can like, go upstairs to their bedroom down the hall and fuck. And like, you don't have to like, think about it. But New York apartments, even their apartment is too fucking small. It's too small to know that your mom is like getting railed in the other room while you're in the kitchen.

[A]

Okay? There's one thing knowing your parents are having sex, there's another thing to be excited about it. And telling your aunt, who is your mother's best friend, that she cannot give you the stuffing she promised because she.

[B]

Herself is getting stuffed.

[A]

But by the way, for those not watching it, we blessedly do not see Charlotte and Harry fucking, which I'm shocked at the restraint of Michael Patrick King.

[B]

We also need to talk about what Carrie is doing and what Carrie is wearing. She has gone to Jackie Hoffman to procure her Thanksgiving pies. She is now dropping them off all over the city like it is a Hallmark movie or something. She is wearing. How do we want to describe this outfit?

[A]

I was trying to think of how to describe it. And for those who have not watched the episode, have not seen the still, she looks like. What is Elizabeth Banks character name from the Hunger Games? Effie. Effie Trinket. If you like. Did you know one of those grounded, gritty versions of the Hunger Games? Like, in a less heightened world, she'd wear this.

[B]

See, I don't watch that shit, so I have no idea what you're talking about. I was gonna say she's dressed like she's in a Christmas episode of Emily in Paris.

[A]

This is all to say there's a lot of tulle, it's magenta, there's a lot of plaid.

[B]

She's wearing a big tulle skirt. Obviously a reference to the tutu from the opening sequence to the tulle skirt in the series finale of Sex and the City. Certainly she's wearing it with a red sequin cardigan, some sort of plaid overcoat. Of course, because of course, plaid and.

[A]

A red velvet hat, which really just engaged the inner burger inside of me. Cause when I saw it, I wanted to say, nice hat.

[B]

Yeah. To me, for Thanksgiving. It's a lot. And look, I understand why they wouldn't want to make Carrie look kind of pilgrim y and why they might want to shy away from a colonial aesthetic. But I'm just saying, like, a Roger Vivier buckle shoe is timeless and so is like a Batsheva type dress. Pilgrim dress, which we know looks good on her. She did wear one, I think. Was it season one when she put on that crazy outfit to smoke? That's with the headscarf and the.

[A]

I can't remember when Lizette was introduced. Yeah, I think season one.

[B]

Yeah, that was Batsheva.

[A]

So this is neither here nor there. But we didn't get into the fact that Charlotte got out of going to Miranda's Thanksgiving in a scene we do not see. We know that these two episodes were originally put together and they are one episode. And Charlotte's storyline in the previous episode is the fact that Harry does not want to have Thanksgiving at Miranda's, but Charlotte is unable to get out of it. And then we just are popped into this episode where Charlotte magically got out of it.

[B]

She did. And now she won't even answer the fucking door. So next on Carrie's Journey, she goes to ltw.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They don't really have much of an interaction. She goes to Seema.

[A]

Chelsea, how dare you? You listen to the writers room podcast. You know how much effort Daddy MPK put into these pie choices and you are just glossing over them.

[B]

Okay, fine.

[A]

Charlotte gets a pumpkin pie. LTW gets an apple crisp. Seema gets a gluten free vegan fake pie. Seema, who gets out of her chauffeured car, which I'm like, you made your driver work on Thanksgiving.

[B]

And her financial problems are gone, I guess.

[A]

Did you not hear? In her clunky piece of exposition, work is picking up. So I am going to the office earlier because tomorrow afternoon I have a bridal fashion show.

[B]

Okay, shut up. Shut the fuck up.

[A]

And then Anthony.

[B]

Anthony gets most consequentially gets the chocolate cream pie. He tries to unload on Carrie about how he's gonna have his big talk with Giuseppe about how he doesn't actually want to marry him. And Carrie's like, sor. Gotta run. She gets to Miranda's. Finally, the hell that is Miranda's house. Brady is making potatoes. Brady's making the whole Thanksgiving dinner. As I understand it, Miranda is distraught because Joy has just canceled because her dogs are sick or one of her.

[A]

Dogs is sick, or is her dog actually sick?

[B]

Miranda doesn't believe that her dog is actually sick. She thinks that Joy is psychotic and lying to her about her dog just to get out of Thanksgiving.

[A]

She thinks that Joy is psychotic and lied to her because Miranda's basically like, my situation is so crazy that this woman just doesn't want to be with me.

[B]

So Carrie's like, girl, like, call her like, as you should and talk to her. And then Miranda does, and she's like, holy shit. She actually isn't lying to me. I guess Sappho swallowed something sharp. By the way, I. Speaking of Sappho, they've referenced this dog more than like Steve on this season straight up.

[A]

But. And this is what. And just like that does to me. I feel like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football. I'm Charlie Brown. The football's in just like that. Lucy is Daddy mpk. Because as soon as Miranda was like, I'm going down to the vet so she won't be lonely, I was like, who works at a vet?

[B]

I know. I was, like, clapping my hands together and jumping up and down like it was Christmas morning. I was like, we're gonna see fucking Che. We're gonna get this love triangle, this awkward run in which might happen. Right? That's not even that crazy.

[A]

But alas, because as you've pointed out, as really we've spent three years pointing out, fun stuff can't happen on end just like that. And also, Sada Ramirez and Daddy MPK may hate each other might be the real reason.

[B]

Look, if they can get Samantha back on end just like that for one episode, they could get Che dm.

[A]

But no, it's a totally different vet, which I guess makes sense.

[B]

But yeah, because it's like an animal hospital, but still, whatever. Che's not there. The dog's going in for surgery. But then the tension is kind of immediately broken because the dog's totally fine. The dog pulls through, as always. Meanwhile, Carrie has to hold down the fort at Miranda's house and is basically the de facto host of this Thanksgiving. And who shows up but Mia and her two terrifying friends Silvio and Epcot? This show is just so fascinating because I Think in trying to be inclusive, they've actually created some of the most offensive portrayals of gay and trans people that I have ever seen on television.

[A]

Right. We should say that Silvio only descriptor, self descriptor is they go off. And then Epcot, we should say, is played by Spike Einbinder, Hannah Einbinder's sibling.

[B]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

[A]

And they all have the worst vibe.

[B]

Truly the worst vibe. And I get it. The characters are written to be awful. I understand that. It's no accident. But I do think that that stems from this belief that this show has that, like, everyone under 40 is, like, queer and trans and horrible.

[A]

Well, they certainly are. People who claim that they're lactose intolerant but will eat cheese anyway. I don't know.

[B]

I feel like in the scheme of negative trans representation, like, these characters are up there with, like, Norman Bates and Buffalo Bill and like, the greats.

[A]

It's interesting. It feels like season three was a course correction to their course correction. Where it felt like season one, they overcorrected in perhaps the. What do you want to even call it, the marginalized groups that they disrespected in the original series. And it feels like by season three, they were like, no, actually our first premise was correct. Everyone is awful who aren't the main characters on this show. Also, what do you make of Mia? Immediately comes in and is embarrassed by her friends because they see Carrie and they go, well, she's not crazy. And Mia is sort of embarrassed by that. But then Mia's like, oh, actually, I don't eat any of this Thanksgiving food. I only eat cucumber, seaweed and brown rice. Which I thought was said as a joke, as a, like, fuck you, Brady. You go off and get all of this stuff.

[B]

Well, also, it's weird because it's like this character is obviously not that person. Like, it would be one thing if Brady had fucked some, like, goop ass bitch.

[A]

Well, and also, spoiler alert, we find Mia eating the cheese later in the episode.

[B]

Well, the whole thing is that they all end up eating the cheese, including Epcot, who is lactose intolerant. Famously.

[A]

To your point, Epcot eating cheese is given more screen time than Steve this season.

[B]

Well, also the repeated beat about Epcot's name. My name's Epcot. My parents were Disney freaks. We hear that three times. I don't understand why this necessitates a callback.

[A]

I don't know, how is it in.

[B]

The series finale they still found a way to introduce two Offensive queer side characters to a side character. Right, because the main character is Miranda, the side character is Brady, Brady's side character. Side character is Mia, and Mia's side character is Epcot and Silvio.

[A]

So that's actually, I believe, a side character twice removed. But it doesn't matter. We don't have any time to focus on this because, ding dong, a new side character shows up. Victor Garber's back.

[B]

The fact that Victor Garber was in three episodes this season, and every time it's kind of like, why are you here? No shade to Victor Garber.

[A]

No, it's always a delight to see him. Love a mini First Wives Club reunion. But yet again, Victor Garber has more screen time and is in more episodes than Steve this season.

[B]

Oh, you're right, because Victor Garber ended up with Sarah Jessica Parker at the end of the First Wives Club.

[A]

Well, that's what we're led to believe. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't even think about that. See, I was thinking more about the fact that the disaster that eventually befalls this character is quite possibly even more traumatic than what his character in Titanic experienced. But anyway, in your head, you were.

[A]

Just, like, repeating his line from Titanic, but, like, for him, just like that. She's made of porcelain, sir. I can assure you, she can overflow.

[B]

You know, it would be crazy. He walks out of the bathroom and, like, opens up a grandfather clock and, like, moves the hands. We gotta stop getting ahead of ourselves. He shows up. Carrie is like, what the fuck? Charlotte's not even here. And you're obviously trying to set me up with Mark Kasapian, who we're led to believe is a Larry Gagosian esque figure in the New York art world, right?

[A]

And Charlotte eventually shows up with the stuffing. You see this in the preview where Carrie pulls Charlotte into the bedroom and is like, why did you do this? I don't want to be with this man. I get it. You're trying to be nice and show me that life isn't over. And Charlotte excuse, because Carrie's like, we don't. We don't have anything in common. And Charlotte goes, but he has a plane. And it's like, girl, Carrie was married to a finance bro for like 15 years and she doesn't need a plane.

[B]

Well, he's even richer than Mr. Big, I think is the inference. And she's like, bitch, he's been married three times. You know who else was married three times? Mr. Big?

[A]

You're his third wife. Maybe Carrie's like, you know what? What? I'LL be a third wife, but a fourth wife is a bridge too far.

[B]

Well, also, Carrie was practically married twice to Aidan. Yeah, like she was engaged. Not that that's the same thing as getting married and getting divorced. I get it. But, like, she's also kind of ran through. You know what I mean?

[A]

Also, to be fair, she married big twice because you presume the wedding he had, he backed out of. They got a marriage certificate, signed it, just never sent it in.

[B]

I love when Silvio is like, Mr. Mann is giving Mare of Whoville vibes, and it's like he wasn't even. If anyone is giving Whoville in this scenario, it is Carrie motherfucking Bradshaw in that outfit. She looks like she came straight from Whoville.

[A]

We should say that Silvio is killing time by voguing.

[B]

Okay, I just want to point out that these kind of trans people, like, actually wouldn't be friends with each other. Like the voguing character who is, like, extremely cruel to everyone he meets. And the fishnet wearing, septum piercing Bushwick trans man. Like, these are two different genres of people. And they do not fuck with each other.

[A]

Nope. In Daddy MPK's world, all the same Heidi Lau robots are the future. All of the LGBTQ Iowa spectrum hangs out with each other, and they're all awful.

[B]

And somehow Brady ended up in this mess.

[A]

Honestly, Team Brady.

[B]

He got dried for being a ginger immediately.

[A]

That was rude. But this show forces us to side with the side character because Brady is correct. Now, Brady was in the wrong to tell his parents about Mia. Upon reflection, seeing Mia in all of her glory these past few episodes. Eh, maybe Brady shouldn't have said anything.

[B]

Also, Brady totally correct in lying to Mia about Miranda being bipolar. Great excuse for her behavior.

[A]

Okay, so we don't see the Thanksgiving dinner. Thank God. But we do see the aftermath. And it is just Miranda and Carrie talking to each other. There's yet another reference to Epcot's name where Miranda goes, who was the person who was in the bathroom all night? Epcot. How could you forget? And I'm like, well, this is lovely. We finally get Carrie and Miranda in a moment, only to learn that Victor Garber is in the powder room.

[B]

He's pissing. I was like, why am I seeing this?

[A]

And you see the piss.

[B]

You see the piss. I don't even know how to say it. Then you see literal logs of shit.

[A]

Okay, so when Victor Garber goes to flush, Epcot shit overflows the toilet. And beyond this being so gross, I am sorry, but someone who is lactose Intolerant and eats a fuckload of cheese, has diarrhea. Yes. It would not be coming out as perfectly shaped turds, which. Imagine my horror when I was reading one of Michael Patrick King's post finale interviews and he gives a detailed answer about the silicone poop.

[B]

I know, it felt almost violent, like, it was so jarring. I felt like violence had been committed against me when I had to see those logs floating up. It's like Farrelly Brothers shit.

[A]

I mean, literally. And it's so funny because in their attempt to do, quite literally, bathroom humor, Daddy MPK has inadvertently given us a brilliant metaphor for the show.

[B]

Well, also because it comes minutes before the conclusion of the entire series, we will forever associate this moment with the end of. And just like that, it's inevitable.

[A]

Which I feel like is another piece of evidence that this was not truly the end of the series.

[B]

Yeah, but you're right, it's weird that it wasn't diarrhea. Also, diarrhea would have been a little less graphic because it could have just been brown water and we would have, like, understood what happened without actually having to see human feces.

[A]

It is so excessive. For those who are not watching the show. Congratulations. What have you been doing with all your extra time not watching this season of end? Just like that. Right. It would have been enough if Victor Garber flushed the toilet and you start to see the water rise up. That would have been enough. Like you, as a viewer of a show who's watched television and Frey who's. We watched the movie Titanic, it would have left us with a more pleasant image of like, oh, this was. This is sort of like the water rushing in, killing Victor Carver.

[B]

So, yeah, I'm never going to recover from this. And as you can imagine, we got quite a few hotline calls about this. Shout out to all those people. We obviously understand your trauma, but again, this. It seems like this, this is why I say this show is about humiliation and degradation. Because seeing Miranda on her hands and knees picking up shit, picking up Epcot's turds.

[A]

Okay, but here's the other thing that is very unjust like that. They show the shit flowing out. And then we cut to the aftermath of Miranda having just cleaned up all of the shit. She is on her knees, she's got rubber gloves on, and she correctly explains to Carrie, like, how did I get here? At the beginning of this year? I had a new job, I was single, and now I might be a grandmother, and I'm cleaning shit up. And then that is when Joy walks Through the door. And I want to wrap up Miranda's storyline, but I have to get into this truly bizarre detail, which is on Miranda's table is a portrait of Eleanor Roosevelt.

[B]

Lauren. Miranda is a lesbian. And this is her lesbian Shiro. Her song Lesbian Shiro had to pause.

[A]

It and I had to take a photo of it. And then I had to, like, I was in a spy film, enhance, enhance, enhance. Because there's another frame in front of it. And I was like, is that a goddamn portrait of Amelia Earhart as well?

[B]

I had to zoom in and confirm that it was Eleanor Roosevelt, because I was like, this just could be some Eleanor Roosevelt looking bitch. That's like Miranda's great grandmother or something like that. Like, I gotta zoom in and confirm. Also the detail of her, like, ACLU tote bag haggied on the wall. It's like, guys, we get it. We know where Miranda's at these days.

[A]

And again, you're making us side with Harry. I don't want to be at this NPR Thanksgiving either.

[B]

I know. Remember when Miranda was a corporate lawyer arguing on behalf of the corporations like Harry?

[A]

Okay, so Joy comes over, they hug. If you're like, oh, Miranda clearly hugged her outside of the shit bathroom, having taken off her gloves that are covered in fecal matter, better. You'd be wrong. No, they hug, Joy gets on the ground with Miranda, and they roll around in the shit. They stop at that part. But I can't even focus on this cute moment of like, oh, okay, Miranda and Joy have come together. They're gonna be together. Because all I can think about is that Miranda is hugging her with the fecal matter covered gloves. I'm not a person who gets grossed out that easily, but come on.

[B]

So Joy's basically like, you spent the afternoon with my family, so I came to spend the afternoon with yours. I suppose this is trying to tell us that despite Joy's hatred of families, which is never really fully explained, I understand, like, not being a kid person or whatever, but she just hates families in general.

[A]

Again, like the conflation with weddings and marriage, there's a conflation of children and families in regards to Joy. Because Joy's like, I hate children. Which is fine. Brady's not a child anymore. He is a straight up adult who's about to be a father. And then in that vet scene, they connected back to her hatred of children because Sappho ate a Lego at a park left behind by a child.

[B]

Okay, so Carrie, Irish goodbyes, goes home to her cavernous apartment, which I guess.

[A]

Is no longer scary because she's okay being alone.

[B]

She decides to keep her shoes on because Duncan is no longer there. We get no resolution as to whether or not she's gonna buy that apartment or not. We'll never know. She walks up to the karaoke machine.

[A]

The karaoke machine that the last episode, she told Miranda, you are taking that karaoke machine with you when you leave.

[B]

But Miranda did not take it. And she puts on a Barry White song.

[A]

Which at this point, I was like. Like, okay, you know what? Has this been a great episode? Of course not. But at least we are paying off the fact that Sarah Jessica Parker has not sung the entire season.

[B]

Not sense Sex and the City too.

[A]

But no, it's in just like that. And we don't get that she's listening.

[B]

To a karaoke track without vocals by herself.

[A]

Is Carrie so old that it's like she doesn't know how to work Spotify, so we have to listen to this muzak version?

[B]

Well, it's also weird because in the beginning of. And just like that, it was established that Carrie and Big listened to records. This is a record presumably from the 70s, right. It sounds like it has some disco Y production flourishes, but also kind of a soul song. Clearly. Anyway, one would think she might listen to a record, but, yeah, I guess she just wants to listen to a backing track alone, right?

[A]

It's Barry White's you're the first, the last, my everything.

[B]

Yes, I understand the song choice in the sense that they're saying that she is the love of her life. She is her first, her last, her everything. However, I just don't think this was the correct song choice. Not that I think that it should have been a callback, but you've Got the Love, I think would probably hit a little more for the fans or even Got to be Real or something like that. That's kind of part of the Sex and the City lore.

[A]

It's also tough because, just formally, the structure of the last few minutes of now, what will be regarded as the series finale of. And just like that mirrors the last moments of the series finale of Sex and the City, where you have. You've got the love playing and a montage of where all of the characters are. So you can't help but compare what we are seeing to that. That and Carrie listening to Barry White as we get a montage of how everyone else's Thanksgiving went. So we see Giuseppe confronting Anthony. Presumably off screen, Anthony has been like, I can't marry you because, you know, you just Want me to be another mom, and I can't be a mom. And so Giuseppe's like, I don't have the words for that, and throws the pie in Anthony's face, which then Anthony laughs, Giuseppe laughs, they kiss, and everything is fine. Question mark.

[B]

It's so crazy. They didn't need to introduce this tension.

[A]

Especially again if they're going to immediately deflate. Are they getting married?

[B]

I guess. I mean, we don't know. We'll go through. Once we finish talking about this episode, we can go through all the unanswered questions that we have. But, yeah. What else happens in this montage?

[A]

Rock wants to see photos of themselves from the play, which Charlotte was like, oh, I thought you wouldn't like that. So I deleted it. And Rock's like, I was just playing a character. I'm going to play a lot of characters throughout my life, life.

[B]

And Charlotte's like, kind of relieved. I don't know what I'm supposed to take away from this. I don't know what this is saying about Rock's gender. I don't know what this is saying about Charlotte's coming to terms with Rock's gender. Like, I actually don't understand why this whole thing was introduced.

[A]

Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. We get Herbert, who tells LTW that he will clean up because she's done enough. And I can guess what we're supposed to glean from this is LTW can finally relax.

[B]

God bless.

[A]

Do we see her relaxing? No. And then Carrie takes, truly a diabolical piece of the pumpkin pie that she brought home with her. She eats it with a spoon and kind of takes a slice of the pumpkin pie. She doesn't even get the crust, just, like, the pumpkin filling off center, which I. I guess really signifies like, I'm single. I don't need to take an economical piece of this piece, for sure. Then we get Seema with Adam's family, where she goes, oh, I don't even miss the gluten.

[B]

So is that a shorthand way of saying, I don't no longer care about getting married?

[A]

According to the writers room, yes.

[B]

And is that it?

[A]

Joy and Miranda have a slice of pie together, and then Carrie is deleting her. Epilogue. This is the final moments of. And just like that, we are left with this. The woman realized she was not alone.

[B]

She was on her own. Marissa texted me and was like a one sentence epilogue. She tore that.

[A]

It was so good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess my first unanswerable question is, does her Editor have any notes for this epilogue?

[B]

Her editor comes back to her and is like, when I told you to write an epilogue that gave women hope? This was not exactly. And again, that is a repeated beat from Sex and the City. Right? Because that's essentially what the Amy Sedaris character, right. Said to her. Like, what is this book saying? Should we all give up?

[A]

I guess it's a rebranding of being alone, of being a spinster.

[B]

But how did Carrie get to this place? Was the Thanksgiving at Miranda's house so distressing that she was like, you know what? I'm fine. Just doing me.

[A]

Well, I mean, according to the writers room podcast, this comes from Susan Fails Hill coming up with this line and Daddy MPK being like, like, that's it. That's the thesis. We answered it. This is what we've been going towards the whole time. Which I've said this several times previously in this episode, but it's just. It's not revolutionary. It's not new. Because isn't that where we left her at the end of season one? At the end of season one, she. She drops Big's ashes. And I know we shit all over that season. Me more so than you. But, like, I at least was like, okay, she can be single and dating, and that's what we'll see in season two. And then she got with Aiden, and then the end of season two, if you remember. There's even like a flash forward scene of her and Seema on the beach being like, well, I guess we're just single gals now. And yet again, she is on her own. She's always been on her own. I've never thought of Carrie as someone who was alone.

[B]

Yeah, well, it's also weird because it's like they're telling us that Carrie has not only accepted the fact that she doesn't have a man in her life, but she loves it and she's thriving. Yet everything in this episode is showing us that being single is humiliating. You go to a restaurant, you get humiliated. You go to Thanksgiving, you get humiliated because your friend tries to set you up with someone that you're not interested in. It's like everything that is happening to Carrie is sad. The tone of this entire season is sad. And now we're supposed to believe that Carrie is happy in her life. It's just really crazy. Also, to contrast it with the series finale of Sex and the City, the tone when Carrie walks down the street, we get the voiceover, we get, you've got the love. Like they sold it to me that the most important relationship is the one that you have with yourself. Even with Mr. Big calling her, it didn't completely unravel that. This doesn't sell it to me in that same way.

[A]

You know why this also doesn't sell it to me is the end beat of Sex and the City is essentially a better version of this, which is Petrovsky slaps her, although, you know, he.

[B]

Did not actually slap her.

[A]

Controversial point, I don't think.

[B]

Stop trying to cancel Petrovsky.

[A]

But she's downstairs in the middle of the night trying to get a room for herself, and she's trying to communicate with the front desk guy, and he goes, well, we only have single rooms, which is. Is not how I think they would call that room, but whatever. And she goes, that is fine, because I am single. And we're supposed to understand as the audience. She is finally acknowledging that she's not only alone, she's on her own. And that's when Big comes in. And the idea that we are told is once she accepts that she's able to meet the love of her life, we're doing this beat again. Why can't it just be that she might not have another great love, but she will have many lovers or something?

[B]

Or just friends again? Why does this have to be the Thanksgiving from hell? Why can't it be a big Thanksgiving at Carrie's house with all of her friends? The woman is not alone because she has this whole world. She has this family.

[A]

Because I wonder if they felt that that would be a repeated beat from the end of season two for sure.

[B]

Which felt much more like a series fidelity.

[A]

Which is unfortunate, especially because they've decided to title this episode Party of One. That I would say a better version of this episode. And especially because this season is so steeped in giving us Easter eggs and references to the original series. Just do her 35th birthday Il Cantanori thing all over again, right? Carrie's got this big house she's hosting Thanksgiving, and for a multitude of reasons, everyone drops out, out, or they're late, and she gets good with being alone or something.

[B]

Someone called in and was like, it's kind of random that they brought up that thing with her back door alarm malfunctioning in the first episode, I believe. Wouldn't it be crazy if she heard the alarm? And it's like Duncan is back and he pops in. I understand that that is not what the show wants to say, but. But at the same time, it's like you've spent an Entire season building this love triangle where there's been no payoff.

[A]

I think their version of a payoff is everyone is just more mature than in the original series, and so, I don't know, they're above all of this. I keep trying to think of what would be a more satisfying ending, and I feel like I'm in the hedge maze in the Shining because I'm like, well, that would be cool if she was traveling with another single friend. But it's like, well, Seema is attached and they did that at the end of season two. Okay, well, that would be cool if Carrie was traveling on her own and was okay with it. Oh, wait, they kind of did that at the end of season one where she dumps Big's ashes in Paris.

[B]

I don't have any great ideas about how to end this, but there had to be a way to resolve all of these things, all these questions that the audience has, like, when is Carrie's book coming out and will it be well received? Will Michelle Obama actually narrate LTW's doc? Will Anthony and Giuseppe actually get married? Will Seema and Adam make it? I kind of don't think that they will, even given Seema's, you know, embrace of a gluten free lifestyle. What is happening with Brady's baby? We also got multiple calls from people that expected her water to break on Carrie's shoes because she was wearing, like, these pink satin pumps as a sort of callback to that. Then at least something exciting would have happened at Thanksgiving.

[A]

Well, we should get into the fact that very pointedly, Mia says that the only reason she decided to keep the baby was the baby was going to be a double Libra, which we also got many calls pointing out the fact that the baby should be born by now because Libra is after Virgo. So it goes from mid September into middle of October.

[B]

And then we listened to the writers room podcast and they were like, we know that this was astrologically incorrect, but we chose not to change it anyway.

[A]

They don't care. Yeah, they, by the way, no, they don't even know if it's wrong. They were like, if it's wrong, we know we'll get calls about this.

[B]

Also, I'm a little nervous about what's happening with Brady's baby because Mia tells a story about how she had a puppy once, but she lost it because someone left the door open. And I'm like, oh, my God, is Miranda winding up with, like, full custody of this child? Because this could very much set that up. And Maybe that was something they wanted to explore in season four.

[A]

And if that were the case, you know what? Maybe this season should end where it is.

[B]

Also, are we totally done with Duncan? Is Carrie buying the downstairs unit?

[A]

Is Jackie Hoffman's pie shop in the black after this Thanksgiving?

[B]

So many questions.

[A]

I can't believe that I'm even gonna have a comment about the credits of this episode, but this is how delusional I am. Chelsea. When it went to black, I was like, and it's gonna come back and say six months later. Like, I thought we were gonna get a flash forward of Cari's book release or her on a book tour, something. And just when I was contemplating the fact that they didn't do that, I was like, do my ears deceive me? I'm sorry. Is the original Sex and the City theme playing over the ang. Just like that. Credits.

[B]

I think that shocked everyone.

[A]

I got into a straight up fight with Paul about it because he was like, you know on the HBO Max interface where it doesn't want you to see the credits at all, and they're just like, hey, would you like to watch Sex in the City?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, they're playing the theme song over. And just like that. And he goes, no, no, it's because it's going. It's defaulting to Sex in the City. You don't understand. And I literally had to fast forward through 34 minutes of that last episode to be like, see, I'm right. Right?

[B]

It was an interesting choice.

[A]

Said like a robot.

[B]

So, Lauren, I have a question for you. Do you think this ending is better or worse than Sex and the City two?

[A]

Wow. Wow, wow. See, I've always thought that. And just like that, if not an apology for Sex and the City 2 was sort of a evil. You think Sex and the City 2 is bad? Let me show you something that'll make you wish for Sex in the City 2. Okay. So the ending of Sex and the City 2. Big gives Carrie a gigantic black diamond. Samantha gets railed on a car.

[B]

True Colors by Cyndi Lauper is playing. I think there's the reveal that actually Harry doesn't want to fuck Charlotte's nanny because she's a lesbian.

[A]

Or even if he did, it doesn't matter because she's a lesbian. Yeah. Miranda's eating a gigantic salad at her less evil corporate lawyer job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And Carrie's putting her latest book on a bookshelf. Yeah. It's better because Samantha's there.

[B]

It's better because Samantha's there. If for no other reason that what she's doing is funny. Like, we have a comedic beat in the montage. Even in the ending montage to American Girl in Paris part deux, it's like we see Charlotte with her 10,000 fucking dogs and their Burberry outfits. Like, we need something funny in the montage.

[A]

Oh, you didn't think the pie in the face was funny, Chelsea? And you are comic.

[B]

Shut the fuck up.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Where do we go from here?

[A]

Where we go from here is to our after show and just after that, where we will be joined by Tatiana Waterford and Paul Glover, who I suppose will give their perspective on what it is like to live with us through this process.

[B]

So definitely check that out. Also, if you live in Los Angeles, come to our screening of Mahogany. It is on Friday, August 22, in Los Feliz. We will put the ticketing link in the episode. Please join us.

[A]

We will be introducing the film. We will also be selling merch. A half an hour before the film screens, we're restocking some favorites. There'll be some new stuff, so come.

[B]

On by while Lauren and I are saying goodbye. Now, we have one final call to play. Well, I feel like shit.

[A]

I just cried a little bit. Oh, why did it have to end? Anyway, this one's for Mr. Big. Sometimes I feel like putting my hands up in the air I know I can count on you Sometimes I feel like saying Lord, I just don't care but you've got the love I need to see me through.