238: On the VMAs, Wuthering Heights, Phoebe Philo

Summary

Every Outfit – Episode 238: On the VMAs, Wuthering Heights, Phoebe Philo

Date: September 12, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garrone

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Episode Overview

This episode is a classic "hotline" and mailbag hybrid from Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garrone, in which the duo responds to listener questions, Instagram prompts, and pop culture developments. Emphasis is on fashion at the 2025 VMAs, hot takes on the new Wuthering Heights adaptation, the viral Phoebe Philo video, and sprawling chats on design, pop culture, and the fabric of the fashion world—always with their signature wit, irreverence, and encyclopedic knowledge of all things style and SATC.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. VMAs 2025: Fashion and Flops

(Starting ~02:32)

• Chelsea and Lauren admit they’re “aging out of the VMAs” but grudgingly tune in for fashion and spectacle.
• Award highlights: Ariana Grande won with a 20-minute “short film” music video neither host has watched in full.
  • “It was an Ariana Grande song called Brighter Days Ahead that I've never heard.” — Chelsea (03:03)
• Complaints about MTV: MTV barely airing music videos, so the awards feel increasingly anachronistic.
• Red carpet breakdown:
  • Ariana Grande: Wore a subdued, elegant Fendi look coordinated with stylist Law Roach.

    “It is subversive to wear something like this to the VMAs because this dress is not flashy, it is not revealing...which is punk in its own way.” — Chelsea (03:56)

  • Sabrina Carpenter: In sheer red Valentino with a lilac marabou stole; notes of Dolly Parton, Bob Mackie, and Cher. Bowman after-party looks sourced from The RealReal trigger the hosts’ approval for buying archival.
  • Doja Cat: Balmain, but the look felt off—“very Sabrina Carpenter-esque.”

    “The look is really giving The Nanny, like, Fran Drescher ‘The Nanny.’” — Lauren (06:56)

  • Ice Spice: In Charlotte York’s Sex and the City Ralph Lauren dress; the hosts love the archival pull but feel the look didn’t match her persona.

    “I think I'm just over people pulling archival looks in general… I wish people would wear more stuff off of the Runway.” — Lauren (07:58)

  • Lady Gaga: Wore Marc Jacobs, but her hair choice drew critique for clashing with the outfit’s vibe.
• Observation: The VMAs lack “star power” and designer clout compared to years past—now, it’s more about the stylists.

2. Tim Burton x Lady Gaga Music Video

(09:11)

• New Lady Gaga song for the “Wednesday” series soundtrack, directed by Tim Burton.
• Hosts pan the overuse of CGI/AI in the video and see Tim Burton’s era of digital “magic” as past its prime.
• Discussion of “Mayhem Ball” concerts—Chelsea’s exhaustion with pricey diva events.

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3. The “Semi-Viral” Phoebe Philo Video

(10:41)

• Topic: Is Phoebe Philo ignoring Stella McCartney at an LVMH Prize jury event?

  “She's wearing a leather J, she looks so fucking cool. And yes, she walks straight past Stella McCartney…” — Chelsea (11:02)

• “Cool girl energy” epitomized. Clarifies there's no actual documented beef—just internet extrapolation.
• Brief history of Philo & McCartney’s intertwined careers, from Central St. Martins to Chloe.

4. Iconic Fashion Homes

(14:14)

• Listener asks about top fashion-industry interiors:
  • Halston’s apartment: “It’s so iconic.”
  • Elsa Peretti’s all-cream 1970s apartment
  • Betsey Johnson: Maximalist pink-and-black 1980s loft.
  • Anna Sui, Diana Vreeland: Admired maximalism; Lauren leans minimalist, with shoutouts to Donna Karan’s zen Manhattan penthouse.
• “Living Well” (NYT Magazine interiors compendium) gets a plug.

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5. Prêt-à-Porter (Ready to Wear) Film

(17:28)

• Listener inquires about Robert Altman’s satirical fashion movie.
• The hosts adore it, especially Linda Hunt & Tracey Ullman’s dueling editors and on-location 1994 Paris fashion show footage.
  • “The cast of this movie is so incredible…” — Chelsea (18:17)
• Acknowledge that it bombed on release but has aged into a cult oddity.

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6. “What Happened to Louella Bartley?”

(20:25)

• Intense, multi-layered answer:
  • Career end: 2009, after which she pivoted collaboratively (Marc by Marc Jacobs, Hillier Bartley, Calvin Klein under Raf Simons).
  • Personal tragedy: Painting after her son’s death; Lauren references a Guardian piece on her career shift.
• Quote: “Imagine if Egon Schiele paintings involved Adidas track pants.” — Chelsea (22:33)

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7. Random Fashion/Design Deep Dives

• Notable bags: The Louis Vuitton x Comme des Garçons “holy” tote is for “smart people” (23:26).
• Diffusion lines: Lamenting the death of Marc by Marc, C by Chloe, and mid-tier accessibly-priced sub-brands.
• Fashion musts: Wish for a return of proper linings and slip dresses.
• Chemo patient headwear tips: Samantha from SATC is an inspiration (“headscarves with drama”).

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8. Wuthering Heights Movie Trailer (35:34)

• Hosts’ confession: Haven’t read the book or seen the movies.
• Special guest “Elizabeth,” (Lauren’s cousin and English teacher):
  Builds a detailed case for why the trailer fundamentally misunderstands the text:

  “In the novel, there is no bodice ripping, there's no finger licking, there are no horse whips. It's not sexual at all...The novel is focused on abuse and power and cruelty and depravity, but that's not sexual.” (31:11)

• Hosts’ verdict:
  • Approve of a “horny” adaptation for fun (“We should do this with more movies, like a really slutty Of Mice and Men.” — Chelsea, 32:39)
  • Critique the whitewashing of Heathcliff—shoutout Andrea Arnold’s accurate casting.
  • Predict Wuthering Heights will be fashion-forward, divisive, and a Valentine’s Day event.

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9. Pop Culture & Showbiz Riffs

Isabelle Huppert on White Lotus?

• Chelsea: “She’s not above being on The White Lotus”; would love her as a staff member.
• Both expect the France season to feature a grande-dame French actress (Catherine Deneuve, Isabelle Adjani, etc.).

Favorite Autumn Movies:

• Lauren: “You’ve Got Mail,” “Bed of Roses,” “Royal Tenenbaums.”
• Chelsea: “Practical Magic” is trumped by “Witches of Eastwick” as the “slutty version.” Loves Turner Classic Movies’ “Douglas Sirk autumn” movies (“Written on the Wind”).

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10. Nepo Babies

• Best: Jane Fonda, Liza Minnelli, Sofia Coppola (“Classic!”). Lauren offers Bella Freud, Stella McCartney, Osgood Perkins, Romy Mars, Francesca Scorsese.
• Worst: “Nepo babies with public daddy issues”—Brooklyn Beckham, John Owen Lowe, Hunter Biden, Charlie Sheen.
• Camp-value exception: Chet Hanks (“Maybe he is the best. Maybe we have this all wrong.” — Chelsea, 43:11)

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11. LGBTQIA+ & Sex Dreams

• Memorable call: Female listener/professor dreamed she had lesbian sex with Chelsea.

  “I hope she gave me, like, triple Ds.” — Chelsea (46:34)

• Discussion on decoding “cultural lesbianism” around Indigo Girls/Melissa Etheridge fandom among boomers.

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12. Listener Q&A Lightning Round

• Where to meet a tall, age-appropriate mask lesbian? Go to lesbian parties/bars, adjust expectations.
• Jussie Smollett Netflix doc: Documentary raises “reasonable doubt” but doesn’t prove innocence; the hosts are critical of all angles.
• Fashion police videos for the future: They're gearing up for a more visual podcast, just need the tech and for Chelsea’s “cheilitis” to clear up.
• Favorite influencer: Interiors and food influencers trump fashion ones—Trisha Paytas called the “Lucille Ball of our time.”

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13. Motherhood & Death Row Meals

• Lauren: “Seamless” transition to motherhood isn’t real—“Where I am right now in this journey… would be like asking me if I like swimming when I’m currently stuck in a rip current.” (64:08)
• Death row meal picks:
  • Chelsea: Thanksgiving dinner (“unless it’s from prison—then I’d rather have Domino’s”)
  • Lauren: Multi-part meal: Bellinis, caviar, mac and cheese, chicken fingers

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14. Listener Oddities

• Wikipedia traffic: Chelsea’s name dominates clicks (“I don't understand Wikipedia...Does this mean people are searching my name?” — Chelsea, 56:16)
• LA Burger Inflation: $23–$45 burgers (Chateau Marmont/Sunset Tower), but In-N-Out remains $4. The real outrage? Sandwich prices.
• If money was no object: Chelsea wants Chanel 255 or LV x CdG holy bag; Lauren wants a rare suede Kelly bag.

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15. Sex and the City (and And Just Like That)

• Critical response to Taffy Brodesser-Akner/Wesley Morris “Cannonball” podcast:
  • Don’t conflate hate for And Just Like That with hating middle-aged women.
  • Hosts agree the “friend dynamic change” is plausible, but AJLT tone/structure is what alienates fans.
• Random SATC production flubs:
  • Season 6, Ep 10—Samantha’s compulsive fruit stabbing (cited at 6:40 mark by “David from West Hollywood”)
  • Season 2, Ep 13—Lighting gear reflected in Carrie’s TV.
  • The “rose-petal menu” prop used inconsistently.
  • Carrie’s incorrect pie-baking method (“just a baked pie crust and some raw apples in it… that’s not a pie.”)

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Notable Quotes

• “We are aging out of the VMAs, although I still watch them for some reason.” — Chelsea (02:44)
• “You know who looked like Sabrina Carpenter this year? Doja Cat.” — Chelsea (06:26)
• “Imagine if Egon Schiele paintings involved Adidas track pants.” — Chelsea (22:33)
• “We're just sick of being a pay pig for all of these divas…” — Chelsea (10:25)
• “We should do this with more movies, like a really slutty Of Mice and Men.” — Chelsea (32:39)
• “Bella Freud… Osgood Perkins... that's what I want from my Nepo babies for sure.” — Lauren (41:47)
• “If you can't fit your phone inside it, that's when it becomes insane.” — Chelsea (25:12)
• “Where I am right now in this journey… would be like asking me if I like swimming when I'm currently stuck in a rip current.” — Lauren (64:08)
• “You know, sometimes Subway just is that good.” — Chelsea (52:08)

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Timestamp Highlights

• 02:32: VMAs fashion breakdown begins
• 06:33: Doja Cat's Balmain look
• 07:12: Ice Spice in Ralph Lauren
• 09:11: Lady Gaga x Tim Burton video
• 10:47: Phoebe Philo viral video
• 14:14: Fashion designer homes
• 17:28: Robert Altman’s Prêt-à-Porter
• 20:25: Louella Bartley’s post-fashion life
• 26:25: “What do you wish designers would resurrect?”
• 31:11: Elizabeth the English teacher on Wuthering Heights
• 35:34: Isabelle Huppert and White Lotus casting
• 39:09: Autumn movie picks
• 41:41: Nepo babies: best/worst
• 45:29: Listener sex dream confessional
• 46:55: Gen Z gay caller on Indigo Girls
• 50:02: Jussie Smollett doc discussion
• 58:00: Adding video to the podcast?
• 61:42: Fashion/food influencer faves
• 65:45: Death row meals
• 67:26: LA burger/sandwich price inflation
• 68:48: If money were no object—dream bags
• 72:37: SATC / And Just Like That questions
• 79:42: Favorite bizarre/blooper moments from SATC

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Memorable Moments

• The “hot bag” joke about combining mailbag and hotline formats (“that sounds terrible”—Lauren, 02:15)
• The intellectual dissection of Wuthering Heights by an English teacher cousin (“there's no finger licking, there are no horse whips”)
• The mini-camp about “who is the LV bag with holes actually for?”, leading to a rant about impractical purses.
• A college professor “outing herself” via sex dream with Chelsea, and subsequent discussion of dream anatomy accuracy.
• A truly granular reader inquiry: “How much does a cheeseburger cost in LA?”—leading to a cost-of-living breakdown.
• The “rose petal menu” prop continuity flaw saga.

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Conclusion

With their snappy banter, forensics-level fashion analysis, and sensitivity to listener queries, Chelsea and Lauren deliver another jam-packed episode full of both deep-dive knowledge and “fuckette”-grade delight. The show glides from VMA fashion and fashion house history to greater existential questions: what constitutes “worthwhile” nepo baby-ism? Is the holy-grail designer bag ever worth bankrupting yourself? Are autumn movies only valid if set in New York?

No matter the topic, the Every Outfit take is equal parts irreverent and incisive—further proof that their obsessions with culture, clothing, and commentary are endlessly generative and deeply relatable.

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End of summary.

Transcript

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[Lauren Garrone]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Mor?

[Elizabeth (English Teacher)]

Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garrone]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast. We are doing a hotline episode and it has been a hot minute since we've done an episode like this. But you can we even call it a hotline episode anymore, Chelsea? Because these episodes have evolved. We used to only answer questions from our hotline, but now they become kind of hybrid episodes because we solicit questions from Instagram as well.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's like a mailbag episode and a hotline episode. So I don't know what we call that. A hot bag. That sounds terrible.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, that's not great. Hopefully one of our listeners will come up with a better title for these kinds of episodes because after all, it was a listener who came up with the phrase fuckette.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A listener and Margaret show. A combined effort.

[Lauren Garrone]

Let's get into it. We have a lot of stuff to respond to. First up, I think the VMAs, which I wasn't aware had even happened until you texted me about it on Monday.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, we are aging out of the VMAs, although I still watch them for some reason.

[Lauren Garrone]

And how were they?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They were whatever There were some good performances, but for the first time in VMA history, I was completely unfamiliar with the song and. And the video that won video of the year.

[Lauren Garrone]

What was it?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was an Ariana Grande song called Brighter Days Ahead that I've never heard. The music video, I still have never seen. I tried to watch it, but it was like 20 something minutes. It was a short film essentially. So I gave up.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's funny that MTV can even still have the Music Video awards, seeing that they only play that ridiculous show, ridiculousness, whatever that show is called. Like they don't even. I mean, I'm going to sound 100 years old, but they don't even play music videos anymore. So it's kind of funn that they still have this award show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yet people watch music videos more than ever because of YouTube, which I guess.

[Lauren Garrone]

Is why Ariana Grande can release a short film as a music video. I did look at some of the fashion. Should we start there with Ariana, who was accompanied by Law Roach as her date? They were both in Fendi.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it was like a polka dot couples look kind of situation.

[Lauren Garrone]

I enjoyed the twinning.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think the dress was beautiful. But. And I appreciate the fact that it is subversive to wear something like this to the VMAs because this dress is not flashy, it is not revealing. It is the opposite of what everyone else is wearing, which is punk in its own way. Although, I don't know, I think I need something different from her on the red carpet because I feel like everything that she has done recently is some combination of Glinda and Audrey Hepburn.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I just think especially because she was there for reasons that had nothing to do with her film career. I feel like I actually would love to see her bring back the like, hoodie as a dress with the like thigh high boots thing again.

[Lauren Garrone]

That would be fun.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, just for one night.

[Lauren Garrone]

I guess I'll give it to her for sticking to an aesthetic even when she is promoting various projects. Just because I think that was my criticism of Lady Gaga last year where I was like, hold on, we've got the Bruno Mars song, which is its own look. We've got the abracadabra look. And then also she's doing her Vegas show, which is its own look. So at least she's being consistent. Although I am shocked that this was not part of the Wicked press tour since they've been promoting this film, as we've noted for two years straight.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Sabrina Carpenter wore Valentino, which I liked a lot.

[Lauren Garrone]

It Was very hot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was like a sheer red lace gown with this lilac marabou stole. It was very, like, deliberately tacky in a Dolly Parton sort of way, which.

[Lauren Garrone]

Very much works with her look, for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And also a bit of a Bob Mackie homage. She also wore a couple different Bob Mackie designs to the after parties and stuff. I think she changed, like, four times.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which very Cher of her. Which one of the outfits was the Bob Mackie look that Cher wore while she was performing with Tina Turner for the Cher show in the 70s?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I feel like that should have been her performance look. Like, I don't know why that was wasted on the after party. Because the performance look was like, really? Whatever. I don't know if you saw her performance.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I did. I went and looked at it all. But the other Bob Mackie look that she wore. Am I getting this right? You texted me. Did she buy it off the RealReal?

[Chelsea Fairless]

The RealReal is suggesting that she did because it was recently purchased from the RealReal in an extra small. And how many of those dresses can possibly exist?

[Lauren Garrone]

We love to hear it. Unfortunately, this week's episode isn't sponsored by the RealReal, but as you know, we stand for it whether they're sponsoring an episode or not.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know who looked like Sabrina Carpenter this year? Doja Cat. I don't know if you saw her outfit.

[Lauren Garrone]

I did. I was convinced without looking at the outfit credit, that it was Moschino, but it's Balmain. I think the thing that makes it the most campy and very Carrie Bradshaw is that she had a Judith Leiber bedazzled bag.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it was a weird look for her. Like, I get that. Again, kind of like Sabrina was deliberately tacky in a 80s sort of way. But I don't know if it fully came together.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's the hair. The look is really giving the Nanny, like, Fran Drescher the Nanny. Which is why I think you're like, oh, this is very Sabrina Carpenter esque. Because when I think of Sabrina Carpenter's Persona, it's part Dolly Parton, but also Fran Fine from the Nanny.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the hair was very Sabrina Carpenter.

[Lauren Garrone]

Speaking of someone whose hair I loved, but I felt like the outfit did not serve as much. Would be Ice Spice in the Archival Spring Summer 2003 Ralph Lauren look, the one that Charlotte Yorke wore in season, I believe the episode they go to Raw. Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I loved seeing that.

[Lauren Garrone]

I love seeing it. I don't know if it worked on her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, to me, the corset is the interesting part of the look. I didn't care for the skirt necessarily. While it is Ralph Lauren, it looks like it's from the world of, like, Stella McCartney era. Chloe, which was a look I really liked at the time. But it's fun to see. Certainly she's the last person I thought would end up in that particular piece.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think that's it. There's something about someone wearing an archival piece that goes against the style Persona that they normally have, but I don't think that this worked. And I think I'm just over people pulling archival looks in general. There's a lot of interesting stuff happening in fashion now, and I wish people would wear more stuff off of the Runway.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, it's interesting, though, because the star quality at the VMAs has declined. Not these people that we're talking about, but most of the attendees. We actually don't see a lot of, like, big designers at the VMAs anymore.

[Lauren Garrone]

We do now see big stylists at the VMAs and the fact that Law Roach was on the red carpet with Ariana Grande as her date, which I found interesting. But, yes, I think the most major look would be Lady Gaga in Off the Runway. Marc Jacobs.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she looked great, although I don't know about the hair. To me, the hair was at odds with the outfit.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think what we're trying to say is that there was no look tied top to bottom that was good or great, at least. Speaking of things that are not exactly great, did you see this Lady Gaga music video directed by Tim Burton?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I mean, I thought the video was fine, but I just don't care about this song.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, it's for the Wednesday soundtrack, which. What is this Wednesday show? Is she at a boarding school?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I saw the first episode of it, but then didn't continue. Yeah, she's at a boarding school. You know, it's like some Harry Potter type shit.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, count me out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's, like, not bad. To be fair, I've only seen one episode. I could dive in further, but I haven't for some reason.

[Lauren Garrone]

So this Lady Gaga music video, for those who have not seen it, it is very clear. They had one location and they had Lady Gaga for one day, but they set dressed the hell out of it with all of these spooky dolls, which is cool, except when it becomes very clear that they are AI animated in this video.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, how can we tell the difference between AI in general?

[Lauren Garrone]

Cgi, Just bad cgi.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I will say. I Think Tim Burton is someone whose work hasn't really benefited from technology since, like, Mars attacks or something. By the time he did Willy Wonka, shit had gone off the rails.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, don't even get me started on Alice in Wonderland.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That was obviously the low point.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, don't love the video, but love Tim Burton directing music videos for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, someone asked if I went to the Mayhem Ball. Unfortunately, I did not go to the Mayhem Ball, which I am sad about. But I'm just sick of being a pay pig for all of these divas, you know, like, how many times can I do it?

[Lauren Garrone]

That's true. I mean, last year almost broke you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I need a break. All right, next question. Thoughts on the semi viral Phoebe Philo video?

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's funny to call it a semi viral video. I texted you and I was like, the only thing I can think of is, is it this video I saw where it seems like Phoebe Filo is ignoring Stella McCartney at this LVMH luncheon?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I don't think it was even a luncheon. I think it was like they were at the jury table for the LVMH prize. And it's this video of Phoebe Filo walking into the room with this incredible swagger. She's like, the attitude is so good. She's wearing a leather J, she looks so fucking cool. And yes, she walks straight past Stella McCartney. Who knows, they could have very easily greeted each other before this video was recorded.

[Lauren Garrone]

What could have happened even a second prior is Phoebe filo and Stella McCartney saying hi or bye to each other. But it's as Phoebe Filo is passing Stella McCartney. To be fair, in this video, Phoebe Filo doesn't say hello to Jonathan Anderson or Pharrell in this video either. However, she is seen embracing. I believe it's Delphine Arnault and Nicholas Guerri.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She seemed delighted to see Nicolas Ghesquiere. I think this video really just captures the essence of her coolness. Like, when I first saw it, I watched it like 10 times in a row. Like, I couldn't stop.

[Lauren Garrone]

She has a very cool energy. I feel like for those that don't know the backstory, we should probably get into the fact that when Stella McCartney went to Chloe, even going further than that, Phoebe Filo and Stella McCartney knew each other from design school at Central St. Martin's when Stella McCartney was appointed the head designer of Chloe, she brought Phoebe Filo with her. When Stella McCartney left to start her own label, Phoebe Filo took over. From what I know, there is no Beef between the two, or at least documented beef. It is certainly possible.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's possible. I'm gonna start writing fanfic about it immediately. Regardless of what the truth actually is.

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[Chelsea Fairless]

All right, we got a call and the audio quality was fucked up, but it was a great question, which is what are our favorite homes owned by fashion people?

[Lauren Garrone]

I feel like a lot of people discuss Halston's apartment. It is well documented, but not enough people discuss Elsa Peretti's all cream apartment from the 70s.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's truly beautiful.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also, how are we categorizing this like aesthetics we appreciate or homes we would, we would want to live in?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think it's both. I mean the Halston, it's so iconic. And the best photos of the Halston apartment were taken by the New York Times Magazine. There is an excellent, excellent book called Living well, which was a bunch of interiors from the New York Times magazine from the 70s and 80s. The Halston apartment is in it. And also Ralph And Ricky Lauren's 70s apartment is in it. Thierry Mugler has, like, the most insane apartment that is in that book. So that I would recommend, like, those are the best. But I agree with you about Elsa Peretti, for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

Another apartment I respect the aesthetic. I don't know if I would want to live there is Betsy Johnson's all pink or black. Pink and black apartment from. Is it the 70s or the 80s?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think that was 80s. It was pink walls, hardwood floors, black furniture, and then she had a chartreuse green door. This has been on the mood board for our studio for some time, although at a certain point, we realized that we just couldn't be in a pink vortex all the time. That apartment looms large for me as well. But also, like, whatever apartment she had in the 90s, even though it's not personally a design style that, like, really, really speaks to me now, there's something so special about Betsey Johnson's apartment from that era. Also. Anna Sui's apartment from the 90s was so nuts. That's a level of maximalism that is just beyond what I could live in. But I appreciate it. I feel the same way about Diana Vreeland's apartment.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right, right. I was also gonna say, it's funny. I feel like you're leaning towards maximalist apartments, and I'm leaning towards minimalist apartments. I also think about. And I'm sure we will hyperlink to all of these in the show notes, but what lives rent free in my head is Donna Karan's Manhattan penthouse that was in vogue in the mid-2000s. Very minimalist, very Zen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah, this is beautiful.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have a lot of clutter, which I'm desperately. I cannot wait to have the time to go through it. But I think that's why I am longing for all of these minimalist apartments.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Another apartment that was photographed for Vogue that I'm still thinking about, and I couldn't actually find it online, but in the early 2000s, they photographed the apartment of the founders of Agent Provocateur. Now, there's only one photo from the shoot that I can currently find on the Internet, but that is, like, truly the best, sexiest bedroom I've ever seen in my life. I think I actually have to just buy this issue on ebay or something so that I can see this bedroom Again, interesting. Next question.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's actually a call.

[Caller]

Hi, Lauren. Hi, Chelsea. First time caller. I just watched Pret A Porter by Robert Altman on the Criterion Channel because they have his showcase kind of Spotlight collection. Have you covered this on the podcast? Please do I want to know all the things about it. Not even going to ask if you've seen it because I'm sure you have. Love you. Bye.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have not seen this movie. In a minute.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Sorry, I thought you were going to say ever.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have, of course, seen this film. It's been maybe a good 10 years since I watched it. Of course, the first of every month I do two things, Chelsea. I say rabbit, Rabbit and I go to the Criterion channel to see what is dropping for that month. And I was delighted to see the Robert Altman collection.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, do not sleep on this opportunity to see Pret A Porter. I love this movie, but when I first saw it, I was too young to really appreciate the level of of satire about the fashion industry specifically. But I did rewatch it a couple years ago. Lord and I have actually tried to screen this film in LA on several occasions. It has not worked out for us yet, but I hope that that happens one day. The cast of this movie is so incredible. But I think the best part of it is Linda Hunt and Tracey Ullman playing these rivals fashion editors.

[Lauren Garrone]

There's so much good to this film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There's a dog fashion show.

[Lauren Garrone]

I love Kim Basinger as a kind of Tim Blank stand in for the fashion show fad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she was maybe a bit more cable access than that. She was great.

[Lauren Garrone]

This is also an era of Robert Altman's career where he's coming off of the Player, which a lot of actors in the Player, like Tim Robbins and Julia Roberts, who has a cameo role in the Player. Richard E. Grant, my favorite, also appear in this film. And it seemed to be that he was in where he was very into poking fun and making satirical movies about creative industries. So the Player was about Hollywood. Pret A Porter, obviously about the fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Industry, but it wasn't really that well received in the way that the Player was like. This was a flop by pretty much everyone's standards at the time. I think it's a great movie. Also, a lot of it was filmed on location at Paris fashion week in 1994. So you actually get to see a lot of incredible collections. You see real models. Helena Christensen, of course, is on the poster for Pret a Porter.

[Lauren Garrone]

And to answer your question, TBD on if we would ever do a VIP episode on it. But everyone should watch the film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I really liked doing that one VIP episode about fictional fashion designers. Maybe we do one about photographers or models or something and we can get into that in a deeper way.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sounds good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

All right, next call.

[Caller]

Hello, Chelsea, I have a super niche question for you, but what the heck happened to Louella Bartley and where is she and why isn't she designing clothes anymore? And I just need some help to figure out what happened. And I feel like you two would know. Thank you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You would be correct. Because obviously we're Louella Stands. Of course, of course.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I love the idea of us doing like a every outfit investigates. But where obscure people from the fashion industry went. And this answer is multi pronged.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I wouldn't say she's obscure. Okay, let's not drag our girl like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Where do you want to begin with this? Because in my research there's sort of several answers like why she is not a fashion designer anymore.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The brand closed in 2009, which sucked. Then in 2013, her and Katie Hillier briefly took over Mark by Marc Jacobs. And briefly Mark by Marc Jacobs was rebranded as mbmj. I remember they switched it to that on Vogue Runway for a while. That was good. It was actually kind of streetwear adjacent and I feel like it was pretty well respected. But it closed abruptly after a couple of years and they just stopped doing Mark by Mark altogether.

[Lauren Garrone]

That was a sad day. Yeah. There is a Guardian article with her from 2023 where. Well, there's a couple articles. There's one that I found from Fashionista that was around the time that they took over designing for Mark by Mark where she said that she had shut down her eponymous label just because she had had a baby. She wanted to spend time with her family. And then in this Guardian article From 2023, we learned she's subsequently become a painter. And sadly, her son passed away from leukemia. So it seems that her design career came to a close as she was spending more time with her son as he was going through his leukemia treatment. And after he passed, she just moved on to painting, which the paintings look beautiful, by the way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Imagine if Egon Schiele paintings involved Adidas track pants. Although I do think we also need to acknowledge that she started another called Hillier Bartley after Mark by Bark closed. And that was good. That was. It was definitely more grown up than Louella. And then after that she worked at Calvin Klein during the Raf Simmons era. So she has been designing clothes. She just hasn't had her own label. Or been as forward facing.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I love the idea of someone evolving out of one creative field into another one later in life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, lots of people become fine artists, you know, Margiela, didn't Helmut Lang do that also? Am I making that up? I don't know. This is such a specific question. Who is the Louis Vuitton Comme des Garcon tote bag with holes in it actually for?

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I have an answer for this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Who?

[Lauren Garrone]

It's for you, Chelsea. Yeah, it's for me to hold a court, but very specifically to hold a quart of the Erawan white bean and kale salad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I could hold several quarts of that in this Louis Vuitton tote.

[Lauren Garrone]

I assume that this person is asking this question because as Chelsea described, this bag has many holes in it. So I guess this person is wondering who would carry this bag because all the things you would keep in your purse would fall out. But you can keep a wallet and a phone in there at the bottom of the bag. It won't fall out of those holes. The holes are like towards the top.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, also, we need to acknowledge that there is a dust bag inside the bag where you can actually put all of your shit. And that's removable. So you can carry it just with like no dust bag, full holes out, God knows what will happen. Or you can like have things be a bit more secure with the dust bag. Who is this for? Smart people. Because, like, I feel like this bag, it probably came out a decade ago at this point, but they're so much more valuable now than they were at the time. They're just gonna get more valuable. So if anyone has one of these, hang on to them. And I hope that they expand upon this collaboration in future. I could do with like a 50 piece collection.

[Lauren Garrone]

More holes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, more holes. Also very influential when you consider that Virgil Abloh later made those off white bags that were also full of holes. A Swiss cheese vibe, if you will.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely think that there are more impractical bags. Like to me, a very teeny, tiny bag is way more impractical than this. Holy tote for sure. Like, I think those mini Kelly bags are probably the stupidest, most impractical bags I've ever seen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, if you can't fit your phone inside it, that's when it becomes insane.

[Lauren Garrone]

I agree with you.

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[Lauren Garrone]

Next question. What do you wish designers would resurrect?

[Chelsea Fairless]

We've definitely talked in the past about art, desire for lining to return.

[Lauren Garrone]

Ooh, that's a good one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also wish we could bring slips back. Like, it is very hard to find a good standard slip or God forbid, a slip skirt from a nice brand these days.

[Lauren Garrone]

You are so right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, you can't get that at skims.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, I guess it's too old fashioned or too old lady. But like, that's something I remember from when I was growing up that my mom would wear just like an innumerable amount of slip skirts underneath a skirt. But yet now I feel like my de facto thing is I have no choice but to wear like a shapewear nude short if I don't want. Because of course, as we've noted, no dresses have lining, but you don't want.

[Chelsea Fairless]

People to see a short through. Like, that's. You can't let that happen either.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know, I absolutely agree with you. I was gonna say diffusion lines.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, we gotta get Mark by mark back.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think this is something I'm trying to recapture from my adolescence when where I fell in love with fashion, where the diffusion lines were still out of reach for me financially. But like, now I'm in a place where I could buy diffusion line price points, but no one has a diffusion line anymore.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So what you want, like this Schiaparelli diffusion line?

[Lauren Garrone]

I would love it, Lil Elsa, but the Schiaparelli diffusion line would still be like $2,000 for a dress, down from 17,000.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm with you. A good diffusion brand. I mean, Marc Jacobs does have heaven. That is a very good ex. A good diffusion line that's done something different that's added something else to the conversation.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm Talking C by Chloe. I'm talking.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They never really figured that out, though. I don't think they ever figured that out.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm just saying I would like diffusion lines at a more approachable price point.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know what was good is, like the Gaultier diffusion lines, like Gautier jeans. That kind of shit was great. We need more of that hat headwear. Fashion for a chemo patient, please. Trying to rock the bald but also want options. First of all, I am so fucking sorry this is so awful. And if you DM me, I will send you an every outfit hat so you will have one more option. I would take this opportunity to get very into head scarves. I would take this opportunity to rewatch season six of Sex and the City for some Samantha inspo. I would maybe do that Jackie O thing where you wear the headscarf with the big sunglasses and a trench coat.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I would steer away from the more cultural appropriating wigs that Samantha dips into during that season. Yeah. I think anything that ties under the chin. There are some cute bucket hat options. There is. Damson Matter has a reversible head scarf for $55. It's denim and then also khaki. I think that is cute. I think what we're suggesting is stuff that has a flair and drama to it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But you can also do something that's casual, like consider a bandana.

[Lauren Garrone]

I was going to say if you search for knit bandanas, there's some great options.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Or just, like, look at pictures of Isaac Mizrahi from the 90s and try and achieve what he's doing there.

[Lauren Garrone]

In researching this question, I've also realized that there's no consensus on headwear language, because when I searched headscarf, something came up called, like, a headscarf beanie, which is kind of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That sounds like something that should be.

[Lauren Garrone]

Illegal, but something that's sort of soft. Not exactly a balaclava, but potentially, as you get into fall and winter, something you can put over your head that has, you know, a neck detail to it. I think the options are endless, actually.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, yeah. Or consider. Yeah, a full balaclava, like a spring breakers situation. That could be great. All right, we have some questions pertaining to show business. First and foremost, thoughts on the Wuthering Heights trailer.

[Lauren Garrone]

This, I would say, is the number one thing we got asked when we were asking for questions. I think this is a safe space for Chelsea and I to admit we've never read the book.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not only have I not read the book, I've never seen seen any of the films. I haven't even so much as seen a wishbone episode about Wuthering Heights.

[Lauren Garrone]

But I know that this book is very important to a lot of people. So I asked my cousin, who is an English teacher, she is a Bronte sister fanatic, to explain to us a what the book is about and two, what the trailer got wrong. So my cousin Elizabeth. Take it away.

[Elizabeth (English Teacher)]

Hi, Chelsea and Lauren, this is Elizabeth, and I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about the new Wuthering Heights trailer. I have a lot to say about the Wuthering Heights trailer. So as an English teacher and a Bronte fan, I don't really even think you can call it Wuthering Heights. In the novel, there is no bodice ripping, there's no finger licking, there are no horse whips. It's not sexual at all. So the novel is about two families, the Lintons and the Earnshaws. And Margot Robbie plays Cathy Earnshaw. When she's very young, her father adopts an orphan boy and takes him into the family and calls him Heathcliff. This is Jacob Elordi's character. One thing that the trailer gets wrong is something that a lot of people get wrong about Wuthering Heights. It's not a love story. Kathy and Heathcliff have a connection. Kathy says it's something like twin souls. There's actually no scenes in the novel where they are in any sort of sexual contact. So overall, I think it does have the shock value that the novel has, but it reaches it in a completely different way than the novel does. The novel is focused on abuse and power and cruelty and depravity, but that's not sexual.

[Lauren Garrone]

Thank you, Elizabeth. She told me that she spent her free period doing this for us instead of, you know, grading papers for the next generation.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I have no problem with someone that wants to make a horny version of, like, a literary classic. We should do this with more movies, like a really slutty Of Mice and Men.

[Lauren Garrone]

Dare I say the Gary Sinise John Malkovich one was a slutty version.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But they kind of did this with the 90s adaptation of great Expectations. Right. Like, that was horny. Didn't we see Gwyneth Paltrow masturbate at some point?

[Lauren Garrone]

I watched that film semi recently that I don't remember. I know that there's. When they reconnect Gwyneth Paltrow and Ethan Hawke over a water fountain, there's a lot of tongues clashing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I like the fact that it's Horny. But it seems like the other controversy is the whitewashing of the Heathcliff character, which I, of course, only know from the Kate Bush song.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's what I was gonna say. Well, also. Okay, is it Wuthering or Wuthering Heights?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wuthering.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wuthering Heights. If you notice in the trailer, Wuthering Heights is in quotes. It's in quotes when you see the title card. And then when I looked at the trailer title itself on YouTube, it's Wuthering Heights in quotes. I read a take online that was like, I bet you this is Margot Robbie reading the book and her fantasies about what's going on in the book. But I do think it's very telling for people who are very mad that this does not seem to be faithful to the original material. To be fair, they put quotes around Wuthering Heights.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but did you read at all about this? Like, whitewashing scandal with this?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, it's not great. Well, it's.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Again, have you never read the book? Heathcliff described as a dark skinned person. There have been many adaptations of Wuthering Heights, but only in a more recent version, which was directed by Andrea Arnold, who's fantastic. We should definitely watch this version. And also probably the William Wyler one. But in that version they actually made him black for the first time.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I was gonna say there's a 2009 Masterpiece Theater version of Wuthering Heights where Tom Hardy, a white man, plays Heathcliff.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's always been white until this Andrea Arnold one, from my understanding, which was seen as a more modern take on the source material.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay. Separating the film from its literary context, I guess. Which seems to be what Emerald Fennell is doing with the piece. It looks great. It looks very stylish.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm excited to see it. I loved Saltburn. I didn't really care about Promising Young Woman that much, but excited to see what she does with it.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's smart. It's coming out next Valentine's Day. We'll be there.

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[Chelsea Fairless]

All right, next question. Do you think Isabelle Huppert would do the White Lotus? Seen as the next season is set in France? She did a guest starring role on a shitty episode of Law and svu. I'm pretty sure she's not above being on the White Lotus.

[Lauren Garrone]

I was wondering if she would maybe play herself though.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I think that she would be great as a long suffering staff member of the hotel. Like she could have played the lesbian manager from the Italy season or a character like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Other than kind of random spots here and there, Isabelle Laupert is kind of a capital F film actress. Like she played herself in a show called Call My Agent and then as you said, she was in a Law and Order episode. But I don't know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, to me, White Lotus is becoming more perverted as each season goes on. Like the Thailand season was quite sexually transgressive. So I feel like this is a perfect time to bring her in because that's her whole thing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sure. And maybe this is coming from a place where to me, Isabella Pere is a list. But I think the exciting thing about each season of the White Lotus is the casting is so good and introduces us to new actors we've never seen before. Like a Will Sharp. Like a Amylou Wood. Also, I think to your point, as the White Lotus becomes more perverted, it's also becoming more mainstream where higher and higher level actors I think want to be a part of it for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And there's no way they would set a season in France without casting some French actress of a certain age. One of them could be Isabelle Ajani, could be Catherine Deneuve, could be a number of people. But I do believe that we will get one character like that. It would be too much of a missed opportunity not to.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I will be refreshing Deadline to see who it ends up being. Okay, next question. Can we all watch Witches of Eastwick this season?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And we should. And practical magic has really stolen its thunder over the years because like the Witches of Eastwick is basically like practical magic, but the slutty version that's about polyamory yeah. Also, we should rewatch this movie and get really inspired by the hair. I have never seen bigger, curlier, more fabulous hair in my life than in this movie.

[Lauren Garrone]

I was gonna say. I mean, we. We're gonna need piece after piece after bump it after back teasing to have hair that reaches that level. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if we're capable of having that kind of volume and lift, but I like to think that anything is possible. Okay, related question. Favorite autumnal movies?

[Lauren Garrone]

The first film that popped in my head. Maybe it popped into your head. You've Got Mail.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, of course.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's interesting. When I was thinking about this, I specifically think of movies set in the East Coast. I need a movie where the leaves are changing. I want that beautiful orangey leaves falling from trees. I want a scarf.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think that's half the appeal of Hocus Pocus. Like, I feel like that's a big part of the reason why that film endures is because the autumn that is presented in that movie is just too fabulous.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's magical in thinking about these movies. I think for a movie to be an autumn film, you need to see Halloween in it. And I thought of a good autumn film. But a Los Angeles autumn is beginners. We've got people in jackets and you see a Halloween party. That's all I need.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love Turner Classic Movies. They've recently introduced the concept of a Douglas Cirque autumn, which I support wholeheartedly. I feel like fall looks the best in a Technicolor film. So I'm going with Written on the Wind, all that Heaven Allows. And then of course, its autumnal successor, Far From Heaven. Perfect fall movies.

[Lauren Garrone]

Very good. And then I would say as an offshoot of youf've Got Mail, if you like a New York based 90s romantic film, Bed of Roses, which is very difficult to find. It is a Mary Stuart Masterson, Christian Slater film from the mid-90s where he is a florist with a tragic past.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And Are you sure this isn't that Blake Lively movie?

[Lauren Garrone]

No, no, before that Blake Lively film. There. Bed of Roses. And you got Pamela Adlon as the best friend character.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I don't think I ever actually saw that movie, but the movie poster or the VHS cover looms so large in my head.

[Lauren Garrone]

And would Royal Tenenbaums qualify as an autumn film?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think so, yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

A lot of the movies I was thinking of kind of, they go into winter and I'm thinking about strictly films that take place clearly between the months of October and November.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I Think as long as the film has a significant portion set in autumn, it should qualify. But yes, there's nothing like the coziness and the escapism of a great autumn.

[Lauren Garrone]

Movie, especially for us who now live in Los Angeles, which is seasonless.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Who is the best, parentheses, most worthwhile Nepo baby and the worst, best Nepo baby?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Frankie Grande. Just kidding. No, it's Jane Fonda or Eliza Minnelli.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, there's a few ways to answer this question. I tried to not go with the obvious Nepo baby pick. So I gave myself parameters. And the parameters were to your Liza Minnelli, Jane Fonda point. Someone who's multi generational. A Nepo baby who has several generations before them of parents who are famous. But I also tried to think of Nepo babies who are in a different creative field than their famous parents. So I think of Bella Freud. I think of Stella McCartney. I think of someone like an Osgood Perkins. So you got his. Is it great grandmother or. Grandmother is Elsa Schiaparelli. His father is Anthony Perkins. He's a director. I also think of someone like Colin Hanks.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sofia Coppola. The classic.

[Lauren Garrone]

So funny you should say Sofia Coppola. I felt that that was going to be too obvious. So I'm going to add Romy Mars to the list. Because I think of this new generation of Nepo babies. She knows what to do with her nepotism. Chelsea. Because her most recent TikTok was forcing Jacob Elordi to do a TikTok dance with her. And that's what I want from my Nepo babies for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Least worthwhile Nepo babies. I was going to say Chet Hanks. And then I realized that that's not true. Because at least he did do something, you know what I mean? That was memorable. The most worthless Nepo babies. We wouldn't even know about them.

[Lauren Garrone]

Chet has really won me over, actually.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Maybe he is the best. Maybe we have this all wrong.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, there's something so camp him. And I think over the years what felt like a phase or a Persona is very distinctly him. Just because he isn't really Tom Hanks son. He is Rita Wilson's son. And that's what's become clear over the last few years. I would say that Brooklyn Beckham is probably the worst.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's true. But a lot of people are fascinated with Brooklyn Beckham and that whole situation. Whereas I. Whenever I hear the words, I run in the other direction. I swipe as fast as possible away from whatever it is.

[Lauren Garrone]

There's also Another genre of Nepo baby that I actually do think is the worst, which is any son of a notable person who is obsessed with their famous father. So I put Rob Lowe's son in this category. He has a son named John Owen Lowe, who was who starred with his father in a short lived Netflix series. I would also, controversially, I'll put Hunter Biden and Charlie Sheen in this category. I don't know if you've ever seen an interview with Hunter Biden or Charlie Sheen. All they can talk about is their daddies. Nepo babies with public daddy issues. Oh, the worst.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know who's good though, is Francesca Scorsese. Yes, she seems like obsessed with her dad, but in the most wholesome, cool.

[Lauren Garrone]

Way that goes in the Romy Mars category.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, she's killing it. I love her. Okay, moving on to our LGBTQIA plus.

[Lauren Garrone]

Questions, let's start off with a call, actually.

[Caller]

Hi, Lauren and Chelsea. I had a sex dream about Chelsea. I had a sex dream about Chelsea last night. I've never had sex with a woman before, but I would just like to say it was a really wonderful experience in the dream. I'm a college professor. I listen to you guys religiously. I think you're so cool. I'm mostly happy that I had the experience in the dream. I just don't know what comes next. And I don't mean that in terms of, like, Chelsea, like, you won't receive any calls from me or anything like that. Don't worry. But, like, do I sleep as a woman now? Now, I did enjoy it in the dream. Don't dreams mean something? I'm freaking out a little bit, but it was mostly really wonderful. I love your podcast every week. I love it. All right, bye.

[Lauren Garrone]

I just want to make it clear, for anyone who has not called our hotline previously, we do say in the outgoing message, if you do not want us to play the message, please let us know. So since this caller did not say it, we saw that as tacit approval to play this call. Chelsea, you are getting busy in people's subconscious.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Look, I'm flattered, but she also said, I'm mostly happy I had this dream. What was that about?

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it more has to do with the fact that she's never had sex with a woman. And what does this dream mean exactly? Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because I really, I'm glad that she. It seems like she had a positive experience, which I appreciate. I really hope that this was like the sex scene from the Hunger with, like, opera music playing and, like, billowing chiffon like, canopy bed situation. But I wonder how accurate your sex dream actually was to what sex with.

[Lauren Garrone]

You would be like, I guess so.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Or like, what did my tits look like in her sex dream? You know, I mean, there's only one.

[Lauren Garrone]

Way to find out. I think you need to send this caller a photo of your tits and be like, does this match up?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I hope she gave me, like, triple Ds.

[Lauren Garrone]

Not to take anything away from you, but I do wonder if you starred in a sex dream for this caller because she was perhaps. Maybe she fell asleep to our podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but why didn't she have the lesbian sex dream about you? Has anyone had a sex dream about Lauren? Please call in. All right, next call.

[Caller]

Hi, Gen Z. Gay here. And when I was listening to you guys talk about Melissa Etheridge and Indigo Girls, I thought, mistakenly, I had never heard of them.

[Elizabeth (English Teacher)]

But then I realized that my aunt.

[Caller]

Has been indoctrinating my cousins with the Indigo Girls for years and that she's seen Melissa Etheridge and Indigo Girls five times in conference concert with my uncle. And I just want, like, a historical context. What does it mean?

[Elizabeth (English Teacher)]

Like, am I reading too much into it?

[Caller]

Love to know. Thank you.

[Lauren Garrone]

I had to play this call several times because I was like, well, what's the big deal? Like, it didn't even clock that her aunt is married to a man until, like, the fourth time I played this call.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, you really do have, like, baby brain or whatever. Is that what it's called?

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't even know.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This could really go either way. You should consider that maybe her playing the Indigo Girls around you might have made you gay yourself. So something to think about. But look, it was not uncommon for boomers to essentially marry their best friend. So, yeah, maybe your aunt is a lesbian, but, like, she just kind of fucks with your uncle or whatever. But also, some people are culturally lesbian. My dad was like that. He spent. Spent a large portion of the 90s wearing an indigo Girls baseball hat that had a sunflower embroidered on it. So I think some people are just fans of folk music or rock music. In the case of Melissa Etheridge, I don't think you have to be a lesbian.

[Lauren Garrone]

So your aunt may not be a lesbian, but your uncle definitely is a cultural lesbian is what Chelsea's trying to say.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, next question. Where can I meet a tall, attractive, age appropriate, late 30s, early 40s mask? Lesbian. Lesbian. What a question. I'm just gonna say.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wait, hold on, Chelsea. I think I should take this one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm just gonna say finding all of these things is pretty impossible. Like, you could find someone with all of these qualities, but they will be short. You lost me with tall a little bit.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, see, the tall thing is big in the heteronormative dating standards as we saw in Materialist. But I didn't know that this also plagued homos as well.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, yeah. Look, it's always rough out there, but you basically have two options. You have to flirt with people on Instagram, or you have to, like, actually go to lesbian parties in a regular capacity.

[Lauren Garrone]

Not bars, because there's only four lesbian bars left.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, go to the, like, 15 remaining lesbian bars in the United States. Of course, if you live in a town that has one. We don't, unfortunately. I will say if you live in New York, someone sent me a flyer. There are going to be Meow Mix reunion parties.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In New York next month. This was an iconic lesbian bar in the Lower east side that I used to frequent back in the day. You could possibly find someone in their 40s there. But it also might be more like 50s, 60s vibes, you know, so either.

[Lauren Garrone]

Go down in height or go up in age.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Have you seen the Jesse Smollett Netflix documentary?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Did you?

[Lauren Garrone]

Of course. I mean, did I finish it a few hours ago? Yes, but I did watch it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It didn't prove his innocence, but it does provide us with enough reasonable doubt about the case.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sure. I mean, the documentary is constructed in a way where you see the story the way that we all metabolized it, which is the crime, the conviction, and all of this stuff. And then in, like, the last 12 minutes, they're like, well, well, there's all of this other evidence. Oh, this doorman from. Or security guard from a hotel saw a white guy pass by. Oh, and there's 10 seconds missing from the security footage. And, oh, someone that lived in Jesse Smollett's building saw a guy, and she thinks she saw, like, some rope in his back pocket. So that completely corroborates Jesse Smollett's story. And it's like, not really. I mean, he says from the beginning. Right. They don't take his story that you hear from the beginning because he is profiled in this documentary. They don't juxtapose that with these new details at the end, because he very clearly says he was attacked by two people. These witnesses who did not get to tell their story during his court case, only ever saw one singular person.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But still, there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of this. There's no DNA that ties anyone to this crime.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's true. All you had were the brothers who. Who testified against him.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, Chicago Police Department does seem pretty corrupt. The missing footage from the security camera was deeply sus.

[Lauren Garrone]

For sure, that is fair enough. But also, two things can be true. The Chicago Police Department can be very corrupt. And Jessie Smollett could have crafted a hate crime hoax to bring more attention to himself.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True. I forgot about the Subway sandwich detail.

[Lauren Garrone]

The amount of discussion about whether a man in sub zero temperature after he is attacked would pick up his Subway sandwich or would not. I was not expecting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I believe that most people would not. But hey, you know, sometimes Subway just is that good.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I think a detail again, towards the end of the documentary when they are. Are giving light to Jessie Smollett's version of the story. What isn't focused on is the fact that the two brothers. So the brothers who attacked him got an immunity deal. Well, that's the other thing. Did those guys not beat him up? According to Jussie Smollett, that was a lie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And also when you see the security footage where they tracked them from the crime scene, basically, it's like, that was obviously not one of those brothers. If we are to believe that those were the two to people that attacked him.

[Lauren Garrone]

For sure. But also, didn't they track the Uber that they got or the taxi cab within a block of where those two brothers lived? And that was the only car in the vicinity that was driving around for sure. Again, it's a little clunky. It's very. The way that Netflix documentaries are crafted these days. It's very in line with that. I do believe those two brothers when they're explaining that Jessie Smollett had received a threatening letter, which looks to be a letter that Jim Carrey's the Riddler put together.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Cause it's like, oh, I was gonna say the letter from the Bodyguard, but who knows? I doubt that was the actual letter. That was probably a reenactment. Cause it was so stylized. It was like from out of Serial mom or something.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right? It's, you know, someone cutting letters out of a magazine.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like a 90s magazine.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right. The brothers version of the story is the. That Jessie Smollett was like, no one is taking this threat. No one at Fox is taking this threat seriously. So I want you guys to beat me up. And the brothers were like, I don't know. I guess this is how Hollywood works. And that was their reasoning. And again, no one really talks about the logic of like, okay, if Jesse Smollett was Beaten up by two MAGA racists. It is the dead of winter, everyone's faces are covered up. So these two men were lying in winter. Wait for him. They had a noose ready. And the thing that I've never understood is these two guys who are racist, Trump loving guys also watch the show Empire. I didn't know who Jesse Smollett was till this thing happened for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And that element of the story was always weird. Unless he was stalked, which would be consistent with the other witness that saw the guy with a rope outside of his back building. I didn't come away from this documentary thinking that Jussie Smollett was totally innocent. But there are some contradictory elements of.

[Lauren Garrone]

This case and I was unaware that he appealed his case to the Chicago, I believe the Chicago Supreme Court and his conviction was overturned late last year.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, there was no proof.

[Lauren Garrone]

So yeah, I will say, like for him to get convicted of that, that based on. You are right. No DNA evidence and completely circumstantial evidence. That was ridiculous. But I still have some questions.

[Chelsea Fairless]

All right, next call.

[Caller]

Hey guys, longtime listener, seven time caller. Because I did call you guys one time when I was really high. I just wanted to let you guys know that a few like about a week ago I read the Wikipedia page for every outfit because I thought it was crazy that you guys didn't already have one. And I did you guys the liberty of setting up reader s from both of your individual names to the Every outfit page. But the real reason I'm calling is because there's something weird going on. I think this is very much against the ethos of Wikipedia, but I'm kind of obsessed with checking the page views and the Every outfit on Sexnicity page has gotten 96 views, which I'm so sorry if that is hurtful since I created it on on August 20, but for some reason the Chelsea Fairless redirect through the Every outfit page has 500 views. And please don't take it personally, but for some reason Lauren Garoni only has three clicks. So I don't really know what's going on. I don't know if there's some pay. I'm trying. I'm on the case guys, but something weird is up. Love you. Keep it up.

[Lauren Garrone]

Congratulations, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, I don't understand Wikipedia though. Like redirected from what does this mean that people are are searching my name on Wikipedia and then they're just being redirected to this new Every outfit Wikipedia page?

[Lauren Garrone]

It must be. I mean when you Google each of Our names, which. Not that I do that very often. It's not like our Wikipedia page even comes up. So I'm not exactly sure. I mean, it's clear who the favorite of this podcast duo is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, come on. There's gotta be some explanation for this.

[Lauren Garrone]

So, next question. When are you guys gonna film the. We want to see your beautiful faces?

[Chelsea Fairless]

We're working on it. We're still putting the studio together. We have lots of things to do, but we've done. We're. We've figured out all the crap that we need to buy. All of the tech stuff.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I mean, it's a work in progress. It's coming together quite slowly. I think we have a very integral part of the studio, which is a fabulous furniture set, but all the technical stuff needs to happen. Also, I feel like. I don't know if you saw that Marc Maron is stopping his podcast, but he's been on this tour where he's been talking about the podcast coming to an end, and he said something very interesting about podcasting as an audio medium versus what podcasting has become with the integration of video into podcasting. I do think that the first things we're going to do with video are the things that just are our limitations with audio. Specifically, Fashion Police, I think we've reached our limit of, like, describing things that happen on the red carpet where it would just be much easier to film that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, for sure. Also, I have to figure out whatever the fuck is going on with my face, because I've told you about this before. I don't think I've ever mentioned it on the podcast. I've had this horrible thing that has been happening to me for the past, like, four months, which is that I randomly get these sores on each corner of my mouth. Mouth. It's not herpes. It's a disease with the funniest name for me, which is cheilitis.

[Lauren Garrone]

Chell has cheilitis.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It can be caused by all sorts of shit. Too much sun exposure, which obviously couldn't be me. I thought it was iron deficiency for a while. Now I'm giving myself B12 injections. I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

So basically, when Chelsea is well enough to be on camera is when we'll start filming things.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Favorite influencer. I had to really think about this because I'm someone who got their start in social media in influencer marketing, but I feel like I have not touched down in that world in a really long time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I don't follow many fashion influencers. You know, I like the interiors influencers more, although I don't know what any of their names are. Like, there's this gay man that keeps popping up in my algorithm that is like turning some home in the Hollywood Hills into some sort of like, Italian villa essentially. And I fuck with.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, it's funny that you say that because I can't remember his name either. But he is doing that home with a design build company called OM Design or omidesn O M E D E Z I N which by the way, I went to an open house and I literally asked the real estate agents, I go, is it OM Design or OMI Dozen? And they just went, we don't know either. But that's what I was going to say is as I've gotten older, I've become less interested in fashion influencers and more interested in food or interior design influencers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, same. I'm with you. Although I did briefly enter the world of influencers last week. I didn't tell you about this. My wife Tat is a big fan of the canceled podcast co hosted by what's her name? Tana Mongeau. Tana Mongeau. Tana Mongeau, who did a collaboration with Tarte Cosmetics. And so they had a launch party in West Hollywood and we went and it was like being inside another world.

[Lauren Garrone]

Was Brooke Schofield there?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Brooke was there. I saw Brooke. I talked to Tana. She was very nice. And Tat introduced me to Trisha Paytas. Does she count as an influencer?

[Lauren Garrone]

That's the thing. Influencer or online personality? Because I am also obsessed with Trisha Paytas.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think Trisha Paytas is the Lucille Ball of our top. I think she has the most just natural, God given comedic talent.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, going back to the question about every outfit tv, like, my dream is to do a panel fashion police style show and have Trisha Paytas on with us discussing celebrity fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No one would be funnier. But that was also crazy because there were so many onlyfans girls there. Like, I didn't recognize any of them. Obviously. Tat was like pointing them out. But it's crazy how much money some of these girls make. Like millions a month.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, God. Yeah. I believe Tana is one of them. So I was thinking about this question and you know, there are people like a Nara Smith or Elsa Hosk where it's like, I'm not following them to get style inspiration, but, like, I do look at their social media presences and I'm like, that's a good curated life. And with Nara Smith, Like, I do love the bits.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, for sure. Naira Smith is an innovator in the medium, for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

And then, I don't know, does Molly Baz count? Molly Boz is someone who was a recipe developer at Bon Appetit, left Bon Appetit, went out on her own, and she films videos and just anyone that has an online presence or a following but has a legitimate skill set. Like, she's a recipe developer, and she just launched this amazing line of mayonnaise called AO that is very, very good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's not influencer first. You know, she's like, influencer third. I would say.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And there are a lot of people that are like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I mean, the only, like, true influencer. When I was, like, looking back at my likes on TikTok, there's a girl named Andrea Richie who's just like, very stylish, doesn't have a typical style of. Of, like, the quote unquote influencer. Like, her style is very. Just all black and white fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

But I think she's incredibly chic. So. Yeah. What else?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Lauren, are you dressing Morty and designer? That was a question from Instagram, not from me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, because you would know the answer to this, which is if by designer you mean Gerber, then yes, the baby is wearing designer, but no, the baby is not wearing designer clothing. Mostly because the baby exclusively, like, shit, pisses and. And spadoodles all over himself. Like, before you got here, Chelsea, the baby went through three outfits.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Jesus.

[Lauren Garrone]

From the time he woke up to when you arrived at 1pm, three outfits. He's not ready to put on designer just yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Another question from Instagram. How has Lauren transitioned so seamlessly into mom? I felt like I lost myself for a year or so.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, thank you for thinking that. I'm definitely lost, but I can hold that in for, like, an hour or so when we do this podcast.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Now I know.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I'm often asked, and it makes you chuckle, but, like, when we run into people or have dinner with people, they're like, don't you love motherhood? Or, like, being a mom? And I always stutter. And it always makes you laugh because my answer is like. And I've been trying to think of an app metaphor, because it's not that I don't enjoy motherhood, it's just more like, where I am right now in this journey. It would be like asking me if I like swimming when I'm currently stuck in a rip current.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's, like, kind of different Things. But the mom part is instinctual. Or at the very least, it's the most immediate. You know, there's a tiny human being that needs to be kept alive. And as a society, they frown on you and sometimes jail you if you do not take care of your baby. But it's all the other things in my life. I'm having trouble integrating into this motherhood thing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But that makes sense.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, but this is, like, the hour or two where I don't have to be a mom. So maybe that's why it seems like I'm doing so well.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, next question. What are each of your death row meals?

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm so curious to know what yours is. And I wonder if I would think.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You would be able to guess.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's what I was gonna say. I wonder if it's more interesting if we tried to guess each other's.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I don't think I could guess yours, but I think you could guess mine.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, a Thanksgiving dinner or a Thanksgiving. Well, one of two things. A Thanksgiving dinner or a Thanksgiving dinner in sandwich form.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think one thing I need to know is, like, where's this Thanksgiving dinner coming from? Cause I'd rather get, like, Domino's or something than a bad prison Thanksgiving dinner.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It needs to be, like, proper Thanksgiving. Although I think if I, like, knew it was my last meal and that I was about to die, I would probably, like, be anxious and not interested in food. So it's like, could I just get, like, a few rounds of Bellinis or something?

[Lauren Garrone]

Something. I'm also. I mean, not to be gross, but I'm pretty sure that you probably crap yourself when the lethal injection or goes in, so. But I guess that's someone else's problem for me. I join you in the Bellinis. I would love caviar with Bellinis. I'd be one of those serial killer death row sickos where it's like, no, we're doing a multi part last meal.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, you're talking about blinis, like, with caviar. I'm talking about. About like. Like the peach puree and champagne.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although, actually, that would be a great last meal together.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. If I had to craft your final meal. Little gem salad, peach Bellini, ideally from Harry's bar. Caviar and Bellinis. And then. Yes, thanks. A proper Thanksgiving dinner or a Thanksgiving dinner as a sandwich or do I.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Just want, like, a really big order of Crab Rangoon?

[Lauren Garrone]

Fuck, I forgot about Crab Rangoon. That is your other favorite. So, yeah, for me, the Other kind of Bellini caviar with bellinis, all the fixins. Uni, sushi.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, you're getting like too many things. You get one meal.

[Lauren Garrone]

No. Haven't you seen these documentations of last meals on death row? Some people do multi part. There are no limitations from what I understand. But on the other end of the spectrum. Mac and cheese and chicken tender.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that sounds good. Classic comfort food.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know, before I myself, when the lethal injection goes in, we have a call.

[Caller]

Hi, I have a kind of dad question for you all. How much does a cheeseburger cost in la where you go out to eat? I live in Chicago and basically every place now has a $20 cheeseburger. Which reminds me of Samantha's very politically incorrect commentary on the meatpacking district from whatever season.

[David (Caller)]

I always chuckle, but it's kind of.

[Caller]

Crazy to think about inflation. I was just curious, how much does it cost to eat out in la? Thanks.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean of course there are expensive hamburgers in Los Angeles. I was trying to find what the most expensive hamburger in LA is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, the one at the Sunset Tower is $45.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, but at least there you get fries.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But the one at the Chateau Marmont, much more reasonable. $23.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, damn.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not bad. But hamburgers generally are expensive. Like they're like a Shake Shack burger is upwards of $10 now.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, there's a caviar place in LA called Petrosian and they have an off the menu caviar burger that is $75, but it has caviar on it, which.

[Chelsea Fairless]

By the way, that's a disgusting thing to order.

[Lauren Garrone]

It sounds disgusting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Who wants that?

[Lauren Garrone]

However, you can go to In N Out and get a cheeseburger for $4 dollars. When I was in high school it was only $1.70. But I feel like inflation wise, considering other fast food hamburger prices, that's pretty good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That is pretty good.

[Lauren Garrone]

The thing that takes my breath away more than the cost of a hamburger in Los Angeles is how much sandwiches cost. In la. There is a place called Uncle Paulie's. There's a few sandwich places that model themselves after like a millennial idea of what an east coast deli is like. Like.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, like Giada, specifically an Italian deli.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, Giada. And Uncle Paulie's. And Uncle Paulie's Italian cold cut sandwich is $18.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, to be fair, I think we have a warped sense of like how much things should cost. Like anything involving meat shouldn't be 99 cents.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I do agree, I the prices of Sandwiches are just not proportionate to.

[Lauren Garrone]

The minimum weight, the minimum wage, and also the amount of effort it would take to just recreate that sandwich yourself.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but that's not even cheaper. Like, have you gone to a grocery store lately? Like, all the things you would need for an Uncle Paulie's sandwich that could set you back like $50, $60.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sure. But then you can make multiple sandwiches.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. If you're eating exclusively sandwiches for a week, which no one does, unless, of course, you have a big family. Like, for me, it's like, it barely even makes sense. Sense.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm just saying, when you look at Goop Kitchen and you can get like the salmon bento box for the same price that you could get an Italian cold cut sandwich, it's a little crazy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True.

[Lauren Garrone]

If you were going to file for bankruptcy, what would you max out your credit cards on before filing? I take this question to mean, what are our bucket list items that you want to own if money was no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Object, are we personally bankrupt or is it the company? Oh, see, I don't think I would. If I was about to file for bankruptcy. I actually don't think I would do.

[Lauren Garrone]

This, but if our company was filing for bankruptcy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, no, I would, I wouldn't either way.

[Lauren Garrone]

So I. Again, I take this to mean, like, what are our if money was no object items would we purchase?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I guess I'd get a Chanel 255.

[Lauren Garrone]

Interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a bag I've always really liked, but there's no world in which I would buy it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, for me, it would be a suede Kelly bag. They are incredibly rare, incredibly expensive, and I mess up my purses that would instantaneously have an oil stain on it, probably from an Uncle Paulie's Italian cold cut sandwich.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Actually, I take it back. Fuck Chanel. I want that Comme des Garcon Louis Vuitton bag with the holes in it, which I can now buy on first dibs for, let me see, $8,000.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I feel like that's a.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Reachable goal, filing for bankruptcy so I can finally get my LV tote. Yeah, great idea. Are you seeing Oasis?

[Lauren Garrone]

I guess the question would be, did we go see Oasis over the weekend?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, we did not.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, absolutely not. First of all, all of my friends who went and saw Oasis at the Rose bowl bought their tickets a year ago. And I remember when my friends bought these tickets, I was like, they're never going to perform. They're going to break up before this concert ever happens. And something tells me Their business manager must have shown them a number of, like, you know, guys, if you back out of this, this is how much you're going to owe. And they were like, got it, got it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I'm happy for their fans that they have fulfilled their obligation of this tour thus far. And no shade to Oasis. They've. They've always been a great band. I did see them at Coachella years ago, so I just. I wouldn't care. Fair enough.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I don't need 70,000 people singing Wonderwall all at the same time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although I am truly shocked just from Instagram learning how many people I know flew to England, which that would be a much better environment to see. Oasis, certainly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Do you mean Claire?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not just Claire. Hey, Claire. Other people as well.

[Lauren Garrone]

I did text a few people who went and saw Oasis. They said it was incredible. One of the best concerts they've ever seen. So, so good for them. The insane money that I will be spending on a concert is in a couple of weeks for the Nine Inch Nail show at the Kia Forum.

[Chelsea Fairless]

All right, lastly, we have a few Sex of the City, slash and just like that questions.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, Chell, I think I hear the baby crying. I think I got to go. I can't answer these. And just like that, question, first of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

All, what do you think about Taffy Brodess or Achner's comments about. About how people who hate and just like that actually hate middle aged women?

[Lauren Garrone]

So this is from Wesley Morris's new podcast called Cannonball, which I've listened to a bunch of episodes but just, I don't know, never listened to this one until recently. And I have some thoughts, Chelsea. And now what I'll say to you.

[Grainger Advertiser 2]

Is if you hate this show, do.

[Lauren Garrone]

You actually just hate middle aged women? Women? You wouldn't be the first. That is the crazy thing I will say on this podcast that maybe I'll call you up and say, just take it out later because I don't need the trouble.

[Grainger Advertiser 2]

No, but I feel the same way.

[Lauren Garrone]

We should say that Wesley Morris and Taffy are looking at this show through middle aged Gen X rose colored glasses. And at several points she refers to and Just like that as a documentary without an ounce of irony.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, we don't know what her life is like, but no shade to Taffy. Love her, love her writing, love Wesley Morris, also loved this episode because they're not just talking about and just like that, they're talking about Sex and the City and the legacy of the show and how it personally impacted both of them. But I Don't agree with this particular take of Taffy's just because. Because I know that I do not hate middle aged women.

[Lauren Garrone]

And also, we did during our breakdowns of these episodes, give space of like, look, we're not the age of these characters, so maybe we're not seeing something. And many fuckettes called in were like, I am the age of these characters. None of this makes sense to me either. And when you listen to this podcast episode, it was very similar to listening to the writers room podcast. Because the show that Wesley Morris and Taffier described is not exactly the show that I feel like you and I were watching.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. And I see the point that she's making. There are, of course, you know, very specific burdens that come with being middle aged. That's undeniable. But there also are women who are having a great time, certainly.

[Lauren Garrone]

And again, the show did not have to have the same frivolity as the original show. But. But the tone that the show settled into, which we have described ad nauseam, was perplexing. Something I find equally perplexing is for two writers, the fact that they gloss over the glaring, just structural mistakes of this show as two writers, I find kind of astounding because what they're really focusing on in this episode, which is a true part of in just like that, is the breakdown of Carrie and Miranda's friendship.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. And they're also talking about the exit of Samantha and they're making sound points about the fact that as you age, if you have old friends, like, not everyone sticks around, friendship dynamics change. Some people flee the group. It does happen. And I do think that. And just like that is accurate in that respect. But it's the way it was done on injustice like that that I think, think felt incorrect to us.

[Lauren Garrone]

They also don't touch down at all because Taffy keeps insisting she's like, these are conversations that are happening on the Upper east side. But they don't touch down into the more ridiculous elements of in just like that. Like the fact that almost a season and a half was spent on Aiden and his crazy family.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

So, I mean, they're definitely focusing in on one particular part of the show and really not taking the show as a whole. But they're entitled to their opinion for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I thought it was interesting what Taffy was saying in the beginning of the episode where she was talking about how she watched the show in her 20s when she was searching for her own identity and how the girls in Sex and the City, that was an identity and that was something that shaped her own identity and perception of herself. And I think that that's so true. Like, we watch this show at such an impressionable age. I do feel like it's a part of me. I do feel like these women were not just characters, but role models in a lot of ways for a lot of people. So, yeah, I appreciate the fact that both of them are clearly such huge fans of the show as we are.

[Lauren Garrone]

And that is an interesting thing they get into, which is the kind of zodiac signification of these women that, you know, we also lead with, which is like, oh, I'm a Miranda with a Carrie rising. The that to see these characters be presented in a way that is messy or messier than we saw these women in Sex and the City. Miranda in particular, that. That is what we also found so detestable of. What does that say about me if this is the way Miranda is now, which is fair.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

They don't touch on Charlotte at all in this episode, though.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think that Charlotte was referenced when they talk about, like, people on the Upper east side are having conversations like this. They were talking about Charlotte and ltw.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I definitely feel that there is a high school age mom group all sharing their. Their Adderall connects for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, another question. Do you think that Darren Starr leaving after season three hurt the show? I mean, no, because season four is excellent.

[Lauren Garrone]

And even the ending of Sex and the City where Carrie does end up with Big, which was Michael Patrick King's vision of the. That did feel very earned and satisfying. I do feel like this question might be coming from the thought that if Daron Starr had stayed on through the course of Sex and the City, that somehow, if invariably there was a sequel series like an end just like that, that that show would be better. And I don't know if that's true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Because he's making Emily in Paris now. And I say that as a fan of Emily in Paris, but tonally, it's not dissimilar from what Michael Patrick King sort of evolved the show into. Last Call.

[David (Caller)]

Hi, Lauren and Chelsea, this is David from West Hollywood. I'm a big fan. I've enjoyed listening to you guys and seeing you live. So sometimes I like to smoke a little and I watch Sex and the City and while I'm high, I notice and fixate on some random things. Like in season six, episode 10 at the 6:40 mark, the girls are in the cafe and Samantha has a fruit plate in front of her and she just stabs and stabs and stabs. Fruit until it doesn't even fit on the fork. And anymore, I know Chelsea would agree with me that it's psychotic and unhinged. So my question is for you. Do you have any favorite random moments or bloopers from the series that the average viewer would have missed? Thanks, guys.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I have a few. I think for me, there's a gaffe in season two, episode 13, the Games People Play. That's the Jon Bon Jovi episode where Carrie goes to therapy. Carrie is writing on her laptop facing the window. So you see. See her television behind her. And in the reflection of the tv, you can see the complete lighting setup and the crew in the television.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I feel like there's also a scene in the Sex and the City movie like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's very tough. Probably in the reflection of her sunglasses, because that's always something in movies and TV when characters wear sunglasses. You often see the camera crew or certainly the lights being reflected.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, my favorite moment in Market to Market, the girls are having brunch and there is a continuity issue with this Marilyn Monroe Warhol coin purse that is on the table where it just moves around.

[Lauren Garrone]

Interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I believe these are also present in Market to Market in several other episodes. Those menus with the rose petals. Yes, the menus with the rose petals were used at different restaurants.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right, right, right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Throughout the run of Sex and the City. Like, it's not like they were at the diner or something and we just see them week after week. They just pop up randomly. But yes, I know the fruit stabbing Kim Cattrall scene that you speak of, that must have been a bad day on set for her.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have always fixated on the fact that in the episode in season four, Sex and the country, when Carrie is making apple pie, she. A pie crust that she has baked. And she says to Aiden, now we just have to put apples in it and it's pie. To which I say that it's not a pie. It's not a pie yet. You need to put some. Some cinnamon sugar. You need to put it back in the oven. It's just a baked pie crust and some raw apples in it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, wait, I just thought of a couple other gross moments. I'm sure we've talked about this because I believe we talked about this and episode, but just the fact that when Charlotte has her whole, like, there's the whole intervention about the rabbit vibrator, the fact that Miranda just, like takes it from her and puts a used vibrator in her handbag, I will never get over. Also on anxious like that. I don't know if you remember, but in season one there was like scenes where Charlotte was watching Richard Burton, but she was like cradling the shit in her hands. Like the bag of shit. You know how you usually hold it from the.

[Lauren Garrone]

The. The top.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The top. But like she was just holding his warm shit. I love these moments though. It's the little things.

[Lauren Garrone]

Anything else for us to answer?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think that's it. We've done it all. Thank you guys for listening and we'll.

[Lauren Garrone]

Be back next week. But before we go, Chelsea, I just want to wish you a happy birthday.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, thanks honey. I'm even fucking older. Great.

[Lauren Garrone]

You're one year older, but you'll also be so much Tanner. Cuz you guys are going to Miami.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm excited. The tan won't be real, but yes, I will have one when I come back.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, until then, bye bye guys.