241: On Lilith Fair, Milan Fashion Week, Jane Birkin (Feat. Marisa Meltzer)

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast – Episode 241:

"On Lilith Fair, Milan Fashion Week, Jane Birkin (Feat. Marisa Meltzer)"

Release Date: October 3, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless, Lauren Garroni
Special Guest: Marisa Meltzer

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Episode Overview

In this rich and lively episode, Chelsea and Lauren dive deep into three intersecting worlds: the much-discussed "Lilith Fair" documentary (and its broader pop culture and feminist legacy), the drama and renewal of Milan Fashion Week, and the enigmatic, enduring allure of Jane Birkin—capped off with an in-depth interview with author Marisa Meltzer. The tone is candid, witty, and affectionate—peppered with memorable anecdotes, nostalgia, and a critique-laden but loving eye on the state of fashion and culture.

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Key Segments

1. Concert Nostalgia: Nine Inch Nails, Oprah, and Prince

[01:29–04:36]

• Lauren opens by discussing her recent Nine Inch Nails experience, including thoughts on merch and the unique staging.
• Chelsea reflects on seeing Oprah amid the onset of the 2020 pandemic, and Lauren tells the story of Prince’s historic attempt to save the Kia Forum by playing 20 nights in a row.
• Themes: generational nostalgia, the evolution of live music, and the cultural status of iconic venues.

“I'm gon honest. I was born middle-aged. I'm just aging into the age I've always been.” — Lauren [04:36]

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2. Media & Boycotts: Disney+ Drama, Jimmy Kimmel & Hulu Guilt

[04:36–06:53]

• Lauren discusses her earlier comments on Disney+ boycotts in relation to the Kimmel controversy, apologizes for underestimating the power of economic protest, and references high-profile responses (including Cynthia Nixon).
• Critique of performative activism as illustrated by Noah Centineo’s subscription faux-pas.
• The hosts admit they kept Hulu just to see the new Lilith Fair documentary, joking about the moral complexity.

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3. Lilith Fair — Documentary Review & Cultural Impact

[06:54–20:38]

• Chelsea and Lauren excitedly unpack "Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery," expressing disappointment that the planned reunion performances were canceled in solidarity with Kimmel.
• Chelsea shares personal memories of attending Lilith Fair in '98 and '99, describing the lineup and the festival’s distinct, inclusive energy.

“The vibe was so incredible … truly a high I've been chasing ever since.” — Chelsea [11:24]

• Discussion of 90s misogyny: how female musicians like Jewel were introduced and parodied, women not being played back-to-back on radio, shock jock culture.
• Lauren and Chelsea debate whether a Lilith Fair revival is still necessary—today’s pop female artists (Taylor, Beyoncé, Billie Eilish) headline solo, but they mourn the earnest, community-driven spirit.
• The hosts laud the festival’s musical and demographic diversity and touch on its camp moments (Jewel yodeling, group performances).
• Memory lane: the impact of 90s one-hit wonder female-driven storytelling songs (“Where Have All the Cowboys Gone,” “Sunny Came Home”).
• Lauren confesses to childhood internalized misogyny around Paula Cole’s unshaven armpits, relating it to broader cultural double standards.
• Comparison of Lilith Fair’s positive energy to the contemporary crisis at Woodstock 99, and the awkwardness of male-dominated festival Q&As.

“There actually were people like Patti Smith … that performed there as well. And also Sinead. Oh, my God. Like, all that footage of Sinead …” — Chelsea [14:10]

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4. Film Review: "Weapons" — Subversive Horror, Loss, and Witchcraft

[23:14–29:41]

• Lauren and Chelsea review Zach Kreger’s horror film "Weapons," grappling with how to discuss it without spoilers.
• Plot setup: Children mysteriously flee their homes, possibly as a school-shooting metaphor, or a meditation on grief.
• Chapel Roan’s psycho-witch character is highlighted.
• Chelsea and Lauren debate whether the film means anything or simply adopts a surreal tone. They compare it to works by Jordan Peele (logic holes), "Magnolia" (ensemble), and "Rashomon" (multiple perspectives).
• Fascination with horror tropes and visual references (Korn’s “Freak on a Leash,” scary older women).

“Where you're like, okay, so everyone has ring footage of their children leaving their homes. None of these parents have put the footage all together to be like, hey, do we think they ran to the same place maybe?” — Lauren [27:07]

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5. Milan Fashion Week Recap — Gucci, Versace, Jill Sander, Bottega Veneta, Dolce & Gabbana

[29:46–58:22]

Gucci by Demna

• Analysis: Surprise drop via lookbook and film; reinterprets the brand via "family portraits," shot by Catherine Opie.
• Discussion on Gucci’s evolving identity (no real ready-to-wear code pre-Tom Ford), Demna’s reference-heavy approach, speculation on how much creative leeway he has as an “extreme designer.”
• Fashion film ("The Tiger") is panned: too long, tonally off, "felt like an SNL skit." Demi Moore stars as "Barbara Gucci," with a surreal L.A. power fantasy storyline.

“I watched this film and I was like, I do not get this. I do not like this. It did a good job of selling the clothes, but as a movie ... it's not funny and it just keeps going.” — Chelsea [37:00]

Versace by Dario Vitale

• Vitale's debut: sharply 80s-inspired, overtly queer, referencing Versace’s roots in subculture, sex worker, and BDSM aesthetics.
• Lauren is shocked by rough opening looks but warms up to the collection’s camp, color, and archival references. Both appreciate the move toward a less "hot and fuckable" female customer and a bolder embrace of gay male style.

“Make Versace gay again. It got too het with Donatella.” — Lauren [45:03]

Jill Sander by Simone Bellotti

• Bellotti’s work praised for modernizing the minimalist Jill Sander ethos; Chelsea is emotionally moved by model Guinevere van Seenus’s appearance.
• Unique silhouettes and use of layering lauded.

Bottega Veneta by Louise Trotter

• Trotter’s debut is seen as “very strong”—oversized, textural, returning to some pre-Lee/Blasi sensibility. Both hosts love the workwear influence.
• Soft critique: Chelsea misses idiosyncratic color and quirk from previous directors.

“Most of it isn't real clothes ... at best, there'll be like three of these pieces at the store.” — Chelsea [54:39]

Dolce & Gabbana — Upstaged by Meryl Streep

• The only memorable thing about this season’s Dolce show is Meryl Streep and Stanley Tucci attending in character as Miranda Priestly and Nigel for “Devil Wears Prada 2” filming.
• Dolce is described as “rhinestone encrusted pajamas”—the PR stunt outshines the fashion.

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6. Models of the Moment: Return of Grunge/Early Aughts Icons

[49:50–51:53]

• Nostalgic love for models like Guinevere van Seenus, Maggie Rizer (briefly a real estate agent!), and Tasha Tilberg, signaling fashion’s cyclical embrace of unconventional beauty.
• Appreciation for unique over “bombshell” appeal.

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7. Special Interview – Marisa Meltzer on Jane Birkin, "It Girl" Status & More

[58:47–End]

Jane Birkin: Myth, Legacy, and Reality

• Chelsea and Marisa discuss Birkin’s actual British roots (not French!), her accidental yet direct role in inspiring the Hermès Birkin bag, and her complex relationship with notoriety.
• Dissection of Birkin’s partnership with Serge Gainsbourg: intense, occasionally violent, deeply dramatic, and both hosts' ambivalence as to whether Serge was attractive ("He seems like he fucks ... but I can't get over what I imagined to be the smell." — Marisa [62:10]).
• Marisa recommends film, music, and documentary entry-points for "Birkin novices":
  • Films: "La Piscine", “Death on the Nile”, "A Soldier’s Daughter Never Cries"
  • Docs: "Jane B. by Agnes Varda", "Jane by Charlotte"
• Birkin’s anti-Chanel style, love of basket bags, & punky approach to "it girl" life.

Celebrity, Media, and Fashion Lore

• Reflections on the power of images, and how celebrity identity becomes divorced from the actuality of a person.
• Talk turns to Marisa’s recent NYT profile of Sofia Coppola and Marc Jacobs, and their enduring influence—personal and pop cultural.

“Sofia Coppola is one of those IT girls who has truly endured ... she’s kind of beat the Nepo Baby allegations by, you know, proving her own sort of talent and vision.” — Marisa [77:27]

• Deep dive into Sofia Coppola’s Chanel book project, the lasting impact of approachable yet rarefied style icons, and the intricate connections of fashion’s “it-girl” web (Coppola, Birkin, Kate Moss, Kim Gordon).

Recent Fashion Collaborations

• Discussion of the Manolo Blahnik x Marie Antoinette collection (designed for Coppola’s film), lauding its drama but admitting it feels too costume-y for either to wear.

Preview & Event Plug

• Marisa and Chelsea talk up their upcoming LA event celebrating "It Girl: The Life and Legacy of Jane Birkin" and reflect on the lessons in image, agency, and contradiction in Birkin’s legacy.
• Marisa: “It's about when things overshadow you and then trying to actually talk about who the woman is.” [67:51]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I was born middle-aged. I'm just aging into the age I've always been.” — Lauren [04:36]
• “It was just the perfect vibe sponsored by Starbucks.” — Chelsea (Lilith Fair) [12:21]
• “There actually were people like Patti Smith ... that performed there as well. And also Sinead ... all that footage of Sinead ... it made me so sad that I didn't go in 1997.” — Chelsea [14:10]
• “Make Versace gay again. It got too het with Donatella.” — Lauren [45:03]
• “He seems like he fucks ... but I can't get over what I imagined to be the smell.” — Marisa (on Serge Gainsbourg) [62:10]
• “Sofia Coppola is one of those IT girls who has truly endured ... beat the Nepo Baby allegations by ... proving her own talent and vision ... feels relevant now. I'm always impressed by her.” — Marisa [77:27]

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Key Timestamps

• Lilith Fair Documentary Review: [06:54–20:38]
• "Weapons" Film Discussion: [23:14–29:41]
• Gucci/Versace/Jill Sander Fashion Week Deep Dives: [29:46–58:22]
• Meryl Streep & Devil Wears Prada 2 at Dolce & Gabbana: [55:12–58:22]
• Special Interview with Marisa Meltzer: [58:47–End]

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Conclusion

This episode serves up the ultimate intersection of fashion nostalgia, feminist pop culture critique, and the mythology of it-girls—anchored by Chelsea and Lauren’s razor-sharp banter and Marisa Meltzer’s insight. Whether you’re yearning for the earnest empowerment of 90s music festivals, keeping tabs on the changing creative winds of Milan, or searching for the real Jane Birkin beneath the bag, this conversation offers substance, style, and wit in equal measure.

Transcript

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[Lauren Garoni]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Great gowns.

[Lauren Garoni]

Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Fashion has changed. No, didn't have any.

[Lauren Garoni]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garoni.

[Chelsea Ferless]

And I'm Chelsea Ferless.

[Lauren Garoni]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Wow. Lauren is wearing a Nine Inch Nails baseball hat, which is a little out of character for you style wise. I assume that you procured this from the Nine Inch Nails show.

[Lauren Garoni]

This is true. I went to the Pen Ultimate Nine Inch Nail show from their latest tour, the Peel It Back tour. And you know, I love Trent Reznor. I have been seeing Nine Inch Nails for 20 years. I support his score work. I gotta say, the merge. Little weak on this tour. That's why I'm only wearing the hat and not in a full Nine Inch Nails merch outfit.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Okay. Yeah, but this hat looks great. Like, they really did something with that logo. And honestly, they shouldn't ever have a problem designing merch because they should just slap that on everything.

[Lauren Garoni]

I agree with you. The nin, or Nin, as my mother used to say.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I love Nin.

[Lauren Garoni]

I saw them at the Kia Forum, which is a great venue. I feel, like, underrated.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I love Kia Forum. That's where I saw Oprah during the cursed, like, 2020 wellness tour that she did, like, two days before the pandemic shut down.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, my God. I remember you going to that.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, I remember there was this part where she told us all to meditate, and I could just hear people coughing throughout the key of him and Tat and I were like, we're going to die, aren't we?

[Lauren Garoni]

Okay, well, we didn't have that experience. It made me remember that the last time I was at the Forum was when Prince did this unprecedented, like, 20 days in a row concert because he was trying to stop the Forum from being destroyed.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Wait, you saw Prince?

[Lauren Garoni]

I did.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Lauren Garoni]

It was an incredible experience. And yeah, he literally played every day until the owners of the Forum were like, okay, we won't tear it down. We'll just keep it as a music venue.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I love it there. It's so fab.

[Lauren Garoni]

It's wonderful. This was a very interesting concert. As someone who's seen Nine Inch Nails many times, there were two stages. There was a smaller stage in the center where they did more deconstructed versions of their hit songs. They also invited a DJ named Boys Noise on stage, and they did an incredible remix of Closer, which is for those that don't know the.

[Chelsea Ferless]

No, don't even explain it to them. If you don't know, you don't know. If you don't know, Google it and figure it out.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, some people don't know that that's the you like an animal song.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, they should.

[Lauren Garoni]

And then they.

[Chelsea Ferless]

And we're not pandering to them today.

[Lauren Garoni]

And then they would switch back and forth to a. To a bigger stage. But I have to admit, I. I left before the encore because as someone that has seen them many, many times, they're probably the band I've seen the most over the years. They always end with Head like a hole and hurt, and I don't need to see those songs performed again.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, sometimes you just need to flee the Kia Forum early just to get into Uber.

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. We drove. But yeah, I didn't want to be.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Oh, so what was your excuse?

[Lauren Garoni]

I didn't want to be stuck there.

[Chelsea Ferless]

You're getting too old, Lauren.

[Lauren Garoni]

You're.

[Chelsea Ferless]

You're an old married woman with a child and you can't stay for the Nine Inch Nails encore.

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm gon honest. I was born middle aged. I'm just aging into the age I've always been. What else? Okay, before we get into the things we're going to talk about today, I feel like I owe the listeners an apology. A few weeks ago on the podcast, I discussed how I didn't think that people should cancel their Disney plus subscriptions. This is in relation to the Jimmy Kimmel show being pulled off air. I was not able to explain myself properly because I wanted to explain the drama that was going on with the local affiliates. I was encouraging people to maybe not cancel Disney plus more for the fact that I thought Disney would have the balls to put Jimmy Kimmel's Late show on Disney plus. That did not turn out to be the case. And it does turn out that people boycotting and canceling their Disney plus subscriptions, their Hulu subscriptions, their Disney cruises. I don't know if you saw there was a woman who canceled her 150,000 doll dollar Disney wedding.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, that was just a good idea.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know a lot to unpack about the $150,000 Disney wedding, but we won't get into that. But yeah, it seems like economic pressure does indeed work. So keep canceling. Except don't. Did you see that Cynthia Nixon did a video encouraging people to cancel their Disney plus? Of course.

[Chelsea Ferless]

And she was like, I love Abbott elementary, but I can't do this anymore.

[Lauren Garoni]

But did you see the. They brought Jimmy Kimmel back on air. She did a video where she was wearing Mickey Mouse ears and she was like. Okay, everyone, now resubscribe to Disney plus.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Wow. No, I must have missed the follow up.

[Lauren Garoni]

Did you also see the post of the actor Noah Centineo who posted a screenshot that he had canceled Disney plus but it became clear based on the cancellation date that he had bought a year subscription two days before just to performatively cancel it. And they were like, your subscription will be canceled a year from now.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I love that. That's great. Okay. But we obviously could not cancel Hulu because we had to watch this Lilith Fair documentary. I'm sorry, I know it's wrong, but like, it would be sad if we all missed out on that.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, it's very true.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So this documentary, we talked about it when the trailer came out. It's called Lilith Faire Building a Mystery, directed by Ali Pankhue, produced by Dan levy, about the iconic 90s women's music festival. I have been waiting for this for so long and I'm genuinely so sad that the red carpet for this was canceled because of the Jimmy Kimmel situation. No, like 24 hours before the premiere, they were like, we're not having a carpet. And all of the girls were supposed to perform, I guess after the screening. And they canceled that in solidarity with Jimmy Kimmel, which is nice, but sad. Like I would love to see Sarah McLachlan hit the red carpet.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, because what I got out of this documentary is we're never going to see a lilithaire revival ever again. That would have been the closest we would have gotten.

[Chelsea Ferless]

But why not? Because that's the one thing that could get me out of the house at this point. But I loved this so much because I think I mentioned it before, but I did go to Lilith Fair back in the day.

[Lauren Garoni]

Which year did you go to?

[Chelsea Ferless]

I went in 1998 and 1999, so the last two I missed the first one, unfortunately. But I went in San Francisco. I drove down with my dad. And both times I think I saw Sarah McLaughlin, Sheryl Crow, the Indigo Girls. Like, they were pretty much always on the bill. And then one year I saw Erykah Badu, Michelle ndeguxiello. Who else? Natalie Merchant. And then the other year it was like the Pretenders. That was the one that was emceed by Sandra Bernhard. I saw Maya, which I completely forgot about until I saw the footage of her at Lilith Fair.

[Lauren Garoni]

Did you feel 107 years old when the documentary begins with Olivia Rodrigo discussing the fact that she was like, wow, it was so amazing to find out that all of my favorite female artists played at a festival together. And I had no idea.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, that scared me a little bit. But I like that she cares.

[Lauren Garoni]

The documentary gives some backstory that I didn't know, which is that women were not supposed to be played back to back on radio stations well into the late 1990s.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So crazy.

[Lauren Garoni]

They also get into the misogyny of the time and really just how, like, shock jocks are a plague on society. Like Jewel discusses the way that she would be introduced when she first came out and would do radio appearances. Such as she was once asked, how do you give blowjobs with teeth like that? And she was introduced as the large breasted singer from Alaska.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So fucked up. Yeah, I never saw a Lilith Faire with Jewel. I don't think Jewel came back after the first year, although I feel like she is one of the artists that really defined it for the American public. Whether you went or not, it became this sort of pop culture thing. They talk about how it was parodied on SNL and how obviously people like Jerry Falwell and conservative media hated it just solely because it was an all women's music festival.

[Lauren Garoni]

Again, I think the beginning of the documentary, they lay a really great groundwork as to why there needed to be an all female festival. You know, how hostile the media climate was at the time. And to your point about why can't we have another Lilith Fair? Which I agree they kind of answer that question at the end of the documentary, or at least the. The point that they're trying to connect at the end of the documentary is this idea of like, well, you don't need an all women's festival anymore because female artists, whether it's Beyonce or Taylor Swift or Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish are powerful enough to headline arenas themselves.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Right. But that original crew, they're kind of all on a similar fame level. I mean, not all of them, but let's say Cheryl Crowe, Jewel, etc. They could just bring back the original lineup.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I mean, the nostalgia of that time, like watching this documentary made me realize if I could live in one time period forever, it would be between the years 1997 and 1999.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

Like I was a child. But I would like to forever live in that three year time span.

[Chelsea Ferless]

See, I would like to forever live at Lilith Fair. Because the vibe was so incredible, because it was such a mix of people. Because in the Bay Area, like in the 90s, there was still a bit of like counterculture in that sort of hippie way. Right. Like it was a mix of hippies and the kind of people that would normally be at like Ani DiFranco concerts and shit. Then there is obviously a lot of gay people and then a lot of people that were more like alternative. It was obviously mostly women in the crowd. And it's truly a high I've been chasing ever since.

[Lauren Garoni]

There is a woman featured in this documentary that I was like, that's Chelsea. If Chelsea could go back and be anyone, you would be the woman who was in her early 20s that accidentally became the tour production manager for all of Lilith Fair.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I wish. Well, I related more to what Dan Levy was saying because he was also in the documentary because he had attended Lilith Fair and was talking about how safe he felt as a little gay boy that had been bullied. And just. I completely relate to that. Not the bullying part, thank God, but it was just the perfect vibe sponsored by Starbucks.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. The charity component was incredibly admirable. Just the reach that that festival had. And also I think the other reason that we need Lilith Fair. But why? Maybe it wouldn't work today. Or at least I learned they tried to bring it back in 2010, which I had no idea. Did you?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, but they fucked up with the lineup. It was very, very different.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. They didn't just get the original people from the Affair.

[Chelsea Ferless]

No. And another thing I think this documentary does a good job of doing is showing that it was more diverse than people give it credit for because most of the headlining artists, a lot of them were more pop rock or like folk rock musicians like Sarah McLachlan like Jewel, what have you. But at the same time, there was also Queen Latifah, Missy Elliott, hip hop artists, country artists like the Dixie Chicks. Like, musically, it was incredibly varied in terms of the kind of people that performed.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think a word that was spoken in the documentary that is so true is it was incredibly earnest. Like, Sandra Bernhardt made fun of the festival before she experienced it. And when she's interviewed in this documentary, she's like, yeah, I just. I don't know. I thought it was of the Canyon vibes, is how she refers to it before she actually went to Lilith Fair.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, and I remember that because she talked shit about Lilith Fair in one of her HBO specials back in the day. And I watched those religiously. And I think she was more speaking to Jewel because that is like an incredibly earnest artist that someone like Sandra Bernhardt I can't imagine fucking with in a million years. But at the same time, there actually were people like Patti Smith that she would fuck with that performed there as well. And also Sinead. Oh, my God. Like, all that footage of Sinead, it made me so sad that I didn't go in 1997.

[Lauren Garoni]

So Sinead O' Connor was there the first year.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Sinead was there the first year. But, like, that footage of Sinead and Sarah McLachlan singing Angel, I can't also just. This documentary had so much archival footage that has never been seen before. Just seeing little things like Bonnie Ray jamming out to Queen Latifah. So good.

[Lauren Garoni]

I had that in my. In my notes as well.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, there were some things that were a bit campy that they included, I think, for camp value. Like, I would also put Jewel yodeling during the group performance of Closer to Fine in that category. I forgot that she did that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, I mean, that woman loved yodel. There's a lot of great archival footage. But I do think this documentary speaks to the state of media preservation, because when they show the Grammys. So the year after the first Lilith Fair, where Paula Cole wins, Sarah McLachlan wins, you know, all of these Lilith Fair artists end up winning and are forced to perform together, unlike the other artists. Was it Best New Artists? Was that the category, a Record of the Year?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Because, I mean, I forget what they were nominated for. That was certainly fucked up.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. In hindsight, giving Hansen and R. Kelly their own space to perform, but forcing Paula Cole, Sarah McLachlan. And who was the third? Natalie Merchant.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I forget. Was it Sean Colvin?

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't know Sean Colvin. Yeah. To all perform together. But they clearly, Paramount, cbs does not have old Grammys available to play because in this documentary, it is clearly a ripped VHS recording of that year Grammys. It's not from, like, a professional source.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. It's crazy how much Lilith Fare actually did for Sarah McLachlan's career, because the album that had come out before Surfacing, and I think Surfacing had come out a little before the first Lilith Fair. Like, it really is that music festival that propelled her to stardom within the United States. Certainly that.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I feel like around that time, the song angel, and I believe Paula Cole has a song on the City of Angels soundtrack, which was such a cultural moment, very specific to the year 1998.

[Chelsea Ferless]

But, yeah, angel was on the City of Angel soundtrack. But I feel like all of the singles from that album were big hits here at the time. And also, like, it was fun revisiting songs like Paula Cole's Where of all the Cowboys gone, Sean Colvin's Sonny came home. It's crazy that in the 90s there were all these, I would say, one or two hit wonders. Like, Paula Cole had a couple of hits, certainly, but some of those songs that penetrated the top 40 were really insane. Like where have all the Cowboys Gone And Sunny Came Home were both, like, very intense songs that had these insane narratives about bad marriages. There's so much storytelling. Like, you're like, oh, this bitch is really burning down her house.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, the documentary unlocked an adolescent memory that made me feel, in retrospect, terrible about, which is in the segment where they're talking about the Grammys, where they're all nominated, they all win. That was the moment when they're all performing together where Paula Cole lifted up her arm and she hadn't shaved her armpits, and everyone made fun of the fact that she had hairy armpits. And I do remember in elementary school, it was like, where have all the cowboys gone? They've gone in your armpits, is what we used to say. And I. I feel terrible about it. Some internalized misogyny.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Oh, of course, it was the same when Julia Roberts went to that one award show and didn't shave. Which in retrospect, much more subversive. Like, I expect it from Paula Cole, absolutely, But not so much from her.

[Lauren Garoni]

I didn't realize out of all of the festivals, because this was a time where there's kind of a lack of context of all the festivals that were happening at the same time. But I remember Warp Tour, Oz Fest. Like, everyone had a genre Festival, like, that was the time.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, all of my friends were a little too cool for Lilith Fair. They were all like, Warped Tour, for sure, of course. But I was Lilith Fair.

[Lauren Garoni]

You were. You were an earnest little baby lesbian.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, it wasn't as if I wasn't also into, like, artists like hole or L7 or bikini kill, that kind of music, you know, that was much, like, harder than Lilith Fair. I was into all of it, but Lilith Faire was just, like, such a special, positive place.

[Lauren Garoni]

My other favorite segment, just because this has been spoken about in various documentaries over the last few years of, like, just how toxic Woodstock 99 was.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Oh, my God. I know. The fact that that happened the same year. And didn't Sheryl Crow also perform at Woodstock 99, or did I just make that up?

[Lauren Garoni]

No, Jewel performed. Sheryl Crow performed. And Sheryl Crowe and I think someone else, I can't remember who left Lilith Fair to perform Woodstock. And then another thing fascinating about lilithaire that I just don't think is done at festivals anymore, is just a press conference every tour stop.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Okay. But for Lilith Fair, that seemed like a terrible idea because people just ask them the most sexist questions. And someone asked Sheryl Crow about the rapes at Woodstock 99, and she gave truly the most psychotic answer, which was.

[Lauren Garoni]

Was that in the documentary?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, they were like, what did you do, like, when you heard. And she was basically like, sort of put on an affected voice and was like, oh, I just ran into, like, Sarah's bosom and was like, oh, my God. It's like, well, yeah, it's really fucked up, but I don't know. I think it's obviously an uncomfortable question to be asked in a situation like that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, you and I are very anti q and in all forms.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah.

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[Chelsea Ferless]

Also. It was so fun seeing the girls. Now, like, Suzanne Vega looks like a supermodel.

[Lauren Garoni]

Sarah McLachlan looks incredible.

[Chelsea Ferless]

They're all looking good. They've all gotten, like, some good work. The right amount.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, you think none of them have aged naturally?

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't know if they've aged totally naturally. No shade.

[Lauren Garoni]

I didn't realize that out of all of those festivals, according to the documentary, Lilith Fair was the most successful. And I guess I had just assumed, because they only did it for three years and then stop. That it just wasn't viable anymore. But that wasn't the case at all. They just. Sarah McLachlan wanted to start a family. She's like, I did my thing. Now all of you go out and continue.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, now she needs to get back into it.

[Lauren Garoni]

Absolutely. Although I think this documentary gave us the answer of how Sarah McLachlan let. What is it? The ASPCA use Angel. Angel in those commercials? Because Sarah McLachlan talks about how she's just a very nice person that doesn't like conflict. So it feels to me that the ASPCA was like, can we use this for a very sad dog commercial that's going to make everyone feel very sad. And she was like, I don't know how to say no. So sure.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, I'm sure she's raised millions and millions of dollars for them with that song. Although it was actually about the touring keyboardist for the Smashing Pumpkins, Odine in his hotel room.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, shit.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Anyhow, watch the Lilith Fair doc if you still have Hulu.

[Lauren Garoni]

All right. Shall we get into a very zeitgeisty film? No, we're not talking about one battle after another. Unfortunately, Chelsea and I have not seen the film yet. We are talking about the film Weapons, which came out over the summer. But Chell and I have finally seen the movie, so we're gonna talk about it now.

[Chelsea Ferless]

What did you think?

[Lauren Garoni]

I really enjoyed it. This is Zach Kreger's follow up film. He made the movie Barbarian, which I was obsessed with. Didn't love this film as much as Barbarian, but yeah, I really enjoyed it.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I liked it as much as Barbarian. I liked it a lot.

[Lauren Garoni]

How are we gonna talk about this film? Because it's always.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't know. But before we get into it, could you get me a bowl of water really quick? And also perhaps a lock of your hair. And also if you have any old newspapers laying around, I might need to just cover up the windows real quick.

[Lauren Garoni]

Chelsea, why do you have that stick? We never know how to talk about relatively new releases because we don't want to spoil it for people who haven't seen it. But for those who haven't seen it, we want to discuss it as thoroughly as possible.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, I don't think that we need to spoil the ending, but I think we can reveal that Chapel Roan plays a really psycho witch.

[Lauren Garoni]

Do we want to discuss what the film is about?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Sure. Give me the logline.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, if you've seen the trailer at 2:17, a bunch of children from one classroom, except one child, all run into the night and disappear. And this film is either a metaphor about school shootings or is about nothing. I don't know.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I'm fine either way.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah, I don't think the film needs to necessarily be about anything. Zach Kreger really hasn't gone on record, as I don't think he should, discussing what the film is about. But Zach Kreger was in a group called the Whitest Kids. You know, his comedy partner, Trevor Moore died in 2017. People believe, and I do think it's true. I. It is about the stages of grief, or at the very least, Josh Brolin, who's in the film, said when he met with Zach Kreger, Zach Kreger said that the film is about the stages of grief, and perhaps each character is representative of a different stage of grief.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I can see that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Or the film is about how there's nothing scarier than an old woman who has thinning hair.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, I watched it with chat, and she was like, is that Kathy Griffin in prosthetics? And I was like, it's actually sad that Kathy Griffin didn't get that role.

[Lauren Garoni]

No, it's the. It's the actress Amy Madigan, looking like the. The crony neighbor from Rosemary's Baby. I imagine that had to be on the mood board.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. She also got kind of like a long legs beat. Yeah. You know what the beginning reminded me of? All of the children running into the night. Do you remember, like, the beginning of the Freak on a Leash video by Korn? Like, we remember it because of the part where the bullet is in slow motion, but there was a whole animated section where all of these children are, like, running out of their houses in the middle of the night. Do you have any recollection of this?

[Lauren Garoni]

Vaguely, yes.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't know. That's what I thought of when I saw that. But the footage of the children running looked incredible. The footage of the children running through people's houses. So good. It was really visually gorgeous.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I mean, again, as someone who didn't get to see the film as soon as it came out, looking online and seeing multiple photos of Aunt Gladys, I could sort of piece together what the film was about. I do think that it does suffer from something I'll call the Jordan Peele ositis, which is the more you think about the logic of the film, the less it makes sense.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Right.

[Lauren Garoni]

Where you're like, okay, so everyone has ring footage of their children leaving their homes. None of these parents have put the footage all together to be like, hey, do we think they ran to the same place maybe?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. No one's like, knocking on the neighbor's door and being like, can we look at your ring cam footage?

[Lauren Garoni]

No, you need Josh Brolin a month later to be like, hey, I have footage of my child running away. So weird that we've never asked each other, like, do you also have footage?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Where did these crazy kids go?

[Lauren Garoni]

What else? I mean, this film was described as a Magnolia esque horror film.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, it's Magnolia esque in the sense that you see the perspectives of the different characters. But unlike Magnolia, this is like kind of non linear. And by kind of, I mean literally.

[Lauren Garoni]

It more has a Rashomon vibe to it. You've seen the various perspectives on one incident. Alden Ehrenreich, who plays the cop character, did say that he was inspired by Magnolia and John C. Reilly's mustache from Magnolia. That's why he's got the cop mustache.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Cute.

[Lauren Garoni]

Oh, we haven't even discussed. I mean, it's an ensemble, but the lead is Julia Gardner as the teacher who does not have a Linda Partridge breakdown in a liquor store that I was expecting her to have.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. But she is also an alcoholic, although she doesn't really do anything super dramatic.

[Lauren Garoni]

No. And there's a repeated beat about addiction. Julia Garner's character clearly has issues with alcohol. You get the sense that Alden Ehrenreich's character is in recovery. Austin Abrams, who's the tweaker that looks exactly like J. Muse, obviously has a meth addiction of some sort of. I thought that maybe that all of this addiction was leading somewhere, but not so much.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Okay, can we talk about the sassy.

[Lauren Garoni]

Gay principal, though, played by Benedict Wong?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yes, he was fab. Although that was truly one of the scariest things I've ever seen to bring it back to the bowl of water.

[Lauren Garoni]

All those hot dogs. Do you think they. They had enough hot dogs? That's another thing that people have pointed out that is a reference to Trevor Moore and the Whitest Kids. You know, I guess they had a sketch about seven hot dogs, and there's exactly seven hot dogs on the tray.

[Chelsea Ferless]

See, that all went over my head.

[Lauren Garoni]

Will you be dressing as Aunt Gladys for Halloween?

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't think I'm doing Halloween this year. I think I'm having a lazy year. I don't have any plans. Do you?

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, dressing the baby in a cute costume.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think my trick or treating days are years to come.

[Chelsea Ferless]

All right, shall we move on to fashion?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yes. Milan Fashion Week has just ended.

[Chelsea Ferless]

There's always something great at Milan Fashion Week, but this season there's been so many shakeups at all of their, like, biggest brands that it's just been a fascinating thing to watch. Starting with Gucci by Demna. That was the big surprise of Milan Fashion Week because they dropped a lookbook that was unexpected that no one anticipated. Shot by Catherine Opie. Say no more.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I love how fashion designers are surprise. Dropping collections like their Beyonce albums or something.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I think it's smart. I think it takes the pressure off of a big fashion show.

[Lauren Garoni]

Very true. So the collection is a reinterpretation of Gucci's core identity through a series of quote unquote family portraits. I feel like it's worth noting that Gucci did not have a sartorial identity until Tom Ford. Really? Like, they were known for luggage, bags, scarves. Remember that scene in House of Gucci where Jared Leto's character pisses all over Jeremy Irons scarf? Just me, actually.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I completely forgot about that.

[Lauren Garoni]

So this is a clue, obviously, into what is in store for Demna at Gucci. And it seems like the starting point is Gucci as alternative history.

[Chelsea Ferless]

In what sense?

[Lauren Garoni]

Because Gucci doesn't have a sartorial identity. Like, there's no. There's not different Personas to remake.

[Chelsea Ferless]

It does. I get that, like, they're ready to wear. Didn't really pop off until the 90s, but still, it's like we have an idea of what the Gucci woman is, and I think it's really embodied by that first look that Maria Carla wore with the red jacket and the scarf and all of that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Right. I think one of the of the strongest looks in general were all of the coats. Alex Cassania's La Bamba in the short fur coat as a dress, the attitude, the little. What looked like a Gucci version of a baguette. I think, unsurprisingly, all of the Gucci bags come pre distressed. Very demna.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, they're more just like slouchy, I guess, instead of structured. Although I feel like the focus was less on the bags and more on the. The ready to wear and stuff. I don't know. I liked the collection a lot. It didn't blow my mind, but I think he's on the right track. I'm excited about it, but I'm curious about what's to come, just because I feel like it's so referential to all of the previous incarnations of Gucci, almost to the point of satire. And I'm curious if he will continue doing that to this degree or this is kind of a sort of assessment of like, what's come before him.

[Lauren Garoni]

So he did an interview with Women's Wear Daily where he did note that his actual first full collection won't be till February. So really this is just an amuse bouche. You know, before this collection debuted, there was a lot spoken about that he probably was going to really referenced Tom Ford's era of Gucci and that idea of minimalism, which is not something he's necessarily known for, which he did speak about in this Women's Wear Daily interview where he says, minimalism is something very new to me and super exciting because it's the most difficult aesthetic in design that you can do. And I want to do it in a modern way. And I found a lot of minimalist references in Tom Ford's era, which I find very, very inspiring. And I think I want to build and evolve that in the future.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, we predicted that he would lean heavily on Tom Ford and also the rich bitch sort of aspect of Gucci. But yeah, I love that he brought back the Tom Ford, like the men's, like, swim brief with the tie on the side and also the patent heels from the like elevator sex ads from the 90s. Very nice to see that stuff.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. And the details of the horse bit on the jeans, those will sell very well.

[Chelsea Ferless]

It's funny to see what Gucciisms he referenced from the Alessandro Michelle era. Like he did all of those sort of ostrich dressing gowns and he did this sort of nerdy men's look with the western style tie. And I'm just curious if he included that stuff because he loved it, like when Alessandro was doing it. Or again, if it's more of a caricature of Gucci.

[Lauren Garoni]

I mean, it might be since quite literally he has Created characters of the Gucci customer of the Gucci past. And that's what this collection is about.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. I also wonder to what extent he is being creatively stifled by the powers that be, you know, and, hey, maybe that's a positive thing. I think there's certainly a lot of people that didn't want him to bring this sort of Balenciaga look into Gucci. But I do think of Demna as someone that, like, is an extreme designer and a controversial designer and likes to go hard. And this felt like he was trying to do something very different than that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, I think people understandably so think about his work at Balenciaga very specifically. But he was, I think, getting closer to where he wanted to go as a designer with the couture stuff that he was doing. And a lot of this initial collection, there's a lot of gowns as well, which I think he's very interested in.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. And that's certainly something that Alessandro was doing really well at Gucci in recent years.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think my point about him doing Gucci as alternative history also ties to this film that the Lookbook was a preview of what was then premiered, which was not a Runway show, but a.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Fashion film, which I watched this film and I was like, I do not get this. I do not like this. I think it did a good job of selling the clothes, but as a movie, and it was quite long for a fashion film.

[Lauren Garoni]

It was a half hour, 33 minutes with credits. And.

[Chelsea Ferless]

And yeah, the movie. The movie did not. Did not do it for me.

[Lauren Garoni]

So the movie is called the Tiger. It is co directed and co written by Spike Jones and Helena Rain, who did Bodies, Bodies, Bodies and Baby Girl. It is about Doug Gucci and Barbara Gucci. Barbara Gucci, played by Demi Moore, who is the president of Gucci International and somehow the chairman of the state of California, which reimagines Demi Moore as a Maurizio Gucci figure, that she is the one that brought clothing to the Gucci family and revived it, but also moved to Los Angeles and owns the state of California.

[Chelsea Ferless]

And Elliot Page is her son, which I did enjoy. I was like, oh, that seems kind of legit.

[Lauren Garoni]

Can I tell you what I didn't enjoy? The fact that we're making Edward Norton, who's maybe eight years younger than Demi Moore, her son as well. Didn't like that.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Don't love that.

[Lauren Garoni]

Also, the substance subtext continues because the film begins with Demi Moore making these very jarring faces a la Margaret Qualley in the Spike Jonze directed Kenzo ad.

[Chelsea Ferless]

It was very glamorous and I liked the Dochi song and all of that, but I just feel like as a movie, I just would not care to watch this. It felt like an SNL skit to me. Like the tone of the humor and stuff. I was like, it's not funny and it just keeps going.

[Lauren Garoni]

I was trying to find meaning in this fashion film and I did wonder. There is a part towards the end of this fashion film which again, you guys don't need to watch, but Edward Norton is talking to Demi Moore about is there a tiger in the room with us? And the tiger is a metaphor, I suppose, and you should just let yourself be consumed by the tiger and let it happen. And I wonder if that's some sort of reference to Demna's cancellation and his own feelings about fashion.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I wonder how involved he actually was with this film. It just doesn't seem like something he would care about.

[Lauren Garoni]

In the Women's Wear Daily interview, he said he brought the idea to Spike Jones and Helena Rain, but okay, I stand corrected. No, but like he doesn't have a writing credit. Those are also two people, to my knowledge, who have never worked together. So it's very interesting that they would co direct and co write this as well.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, it's a bizarre arrangement.

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[RealReal Ad Voice 2]

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[RealReal Ad Voice]

Seriously, just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million members.

[RealReal Ad Voice 2]

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[RealReal Ad Voice]

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[Chelsea Ferless]

Okay, shall we move on? I'm desperate to talk about Versace.

[Lauren Garoni]

This was the first collection designed by Dario Vitale. And there seems to be two reactions to this collection. One, it's one of the worst debut collections ever, or two, you just don't get this collection. It's brilliant. Chelsea, what camp do you fall in?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Oh, I love it. To me, this was the most exciting thing that happened in Milan because I love Versace. I love the heritage of the brand. I especially love Gianni Versace, and I like that this man made it gay again. Made it really gay. And you know what? It's understandable that Donatella dialed back a bit when she took over, but Versace was originally conceived of by a man who was inspired by gay subcultural fashion and BDSM and sex workers and stuff like that. And I like that we're returning to that place. It feels like a homecoming. What do you think?

[Lauren Garoni]

I'm not gonna lie. That first look was very rough. It was very jarring. For those who haven't seen the collection, it's very 80s, and I know that a lot of designers are referencing the 80s in their collections, but this is truly, like, an extra in a John Hughes film level of, like, 1980s accuracy.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Okay, well, I'm with you. I didn't love the first look. I feel like they should have started with a men's look.

[Lauren Garoni]

So for me, the first, like, 14 looks, which, let me just say there are 75 looks in this collection. Too many looks. So the first fourth, I did not enjoy. But after, like, once we started getting into the 15th look, I started to get what he was trying to do, and I started to like it more because he is going back to a very Johnny Versace 80s, early 90s color palette. So, like, there was one look that was this, you know, highlighter yellow denim jacket over a kind of rockabilly style suit. And once we started getting into those looks, and certainly in the back half of the collection, where it was Dario Vitale's interpretation of, like, the trompe l' oeil Versace print, I was like, okay, now we're cooking.

[Chelsea Ferless]

See, as someone that's recently been to south beach and made it my entire personality, I loved the first section of the show. I get what you're saying, because it is, like, those color combinations are very jarring and, like, pretty ugly. And it's interesting because I feel like Versace is a brand that is never, like, deliberately leaned into ugliness in the way that, say, Prada has. They're never like, oh, I'm picking this print because it's disgusting. But I do think there is a level of, like, this man going back into the archives, seeing these clothes being like, this is disgusting, and this is, like, what we need to put on the Runway now because it's fab, and no one else would have the balls to put this on the Runway now.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, in an interview with Women's Wear Daily, Daria Vitaly said, I've never really been interested in fantasy. I'm much more interested in reality. Which is interesting because a lot of this collection looks like costumes.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't know. I can imagine people wearing this stuff, though, because it's much less formal than what we've seen from Versace. There were no gowns in this collection. It's courting the consumer. Specifically, like the gay male consumer that has been shopping at Miu Miu has been shopping at Bottega Veneta or perhaps J.W. anderson. But, yeah, it's definitely a huge pivot away from the current Versace customer, which is a woman that wants to look hot and fuckable. We did not get a lot of hot and fuckable in this collection. And, yeah, it's courting a different kind of gay male consumer, and it's courting.

[Lauren Garoni]

A different kind of female consumer. Again, Daria Vitale comes from Miu Miu. There is in the styling, and again, particularly in the styling of those trompe l' oeil pieces, there are a lot of wearable, sellable pieces. Once you kind of decouple them from all of the different things they're layered over, that I think will sell really well and, as we predicted, is trying to bring a new, newer, more mu, mu, cooler girl consumer to Versace that I don't think was previously there.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, And I think for the average person, it's kind of impossible to buy into Versace unless you're like a rich, cheesy Italian person.

[Lauren Garoni]

That's true. I mean, it's definitely more casual. He said in this interview as well that this was the statement he wanted to make. Something that was very casual. I wanted to start with something that was closer to people and relevant.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, I also think that the styling was really good. The thing is, with this show versus other Versace shows in the past, when Donatella has referenced the Gianni era, it's been like she's focused on one thing, whereas this was kind of like a jumble of a lot of different styles and ideas that he had sort of thrown together in the way that, you know, a person might haphazardly put together in an outfit, which I think was cool. It just felt a little less polished and predetermined, which actually, I think is a good thing. Also, another thing I enjoy about the new Versace is that to invoke Patti LuPone on, and just like that, they've hired some of the queer masters of our time to create the campaign imagery. Jack Pearson shot the initial campaign images that we saw, which were so cool. And then they hired Bruce Le Bruce to make some sort of short film that hasn't come out yet.

[Lauren Garoni]

If that were 30 minutes, would you be okay with it?

[Chelsea Ferless]

I'm sure it's gonna be fab. Look, when it comes out, I'll watch it. We can talk about it. But he's someone who makes films that are so sexually transgressive, and I'm glad that he's getting that corporate check for once in his life.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I think the overarching message of Dario Vitale's Versace is make Versace gay again. It got too het with Donatella. And also people bitching about this collection. I think conveniently forget that Donatella's last collection, which we spoke about, was a mess.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, I wasn't into was ugly in, like, a unintentional way, I think. But, you know, to each their own. I'm sure there are people that loved it. I just think that this recalibration of the brand is exactly what it needed. We needed to move beyond someone in the family designing these clothes.

[Lauren Garoni]

Well, you're biased because you are Gianni Versace. South beach pilled.

[Chelsea Ferless]

That's true. But also, I just respect the fact that he didn't play it safe. He made something that I'm sure he knew would be controversial, that would ruffle a lot of feathers, and it wouldn't be a seamless transition from one creative director to the next in the way that the Demna Gucci collection is respect. I can't wait to see what else he does. Moving on to another fab collection. A fabulous debut we got Simone Bellotti's first show for Jill Sander.

[Lauren Garoni]

Thought this was a female designer. Was unaware until I was researching this. This is a male designer.

[Chelsea Ferless]

We can't have female designers at Joel Sander. That would be crazy. But you know what? Who cares? As long as they're good designers. That's what I care about. And I feel like this is exactly what Jill Sanders should be right now. I feel like he gets what was good about her brand. What's missing in the market currently? Seeing Guinevere Vancinas open the show honestly made me emotional because I remember I had those old Jill Sander ads with her in them tacked up on my bedroom wall when I was in high school. Like, that was such a like for me, just, like, such a important moment in fashion. And I thought that he really just came correct with this collection.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. I think he balanced the brand ethos, the core identity of Jill Sander and making it very modern and today, which is interesting because Jill Sander was always so obviously minimalist, but also the design was so forward thinking.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. And I like how the silhouette doesn't feel like what we're getting from every other sort of tasteful minimalist designer. It feels really fresh, like these boxy little suits. And I loved those blazers and those jackets where they were sort of bunched up in the midsection, almost like as if the suit was sort of like too tight in other places. But it was, like, perfectly tailored. It was gorgeous.

[Lauren Garoni]

And the layering in the middle part of the collection of the dresses and the skirts that almost look like ruching, but it was kind of of fabric layered over each other.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Also, like, there's a lot of looks where it was sort of like a tight cropped sweater layered over a longer sweater. I don't know if that was like one piece or if that was just styling, but I wish I was tall and thin enough and flat chested enough to do that, you know, because I would.

[Lauren Garoni]

I was gonna say Chelsea, seems like we need to get invited to these shows to be able to see these pieces in person.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Buongiorno.

[Lauren Garoni]

Ciao. Can you imagine you and I riding on a Vespa? I'm riding the Vespa. You're on the back. We're just ciao.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Hopefully in full Jill Sander looks. That would be so fab. Yeah. This to me, between this and Versace, I feel very encouraged about Milan and excited. Both of these guys really have something to add, and I feel like both of these guys are so talented and cool and get it. Yeah. It sparks joy. It does.

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[RealReal Ad Voice 2]

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[RealReal Ad Voice]

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[Chelsea Ferless]

Also another thing that sparks joy seeing all of these sort of alternative early aughts models back on the Runway. Not that Guinevere van Cenas, like she's obviously classically beautiful, but she was kind of lumped in with that category of models that were a bit weirder. Like Aaron o' Connor and Maggie Riser, who we saw modeling at Prada.

[Lauren Garoni]

The sort of grunge era, quote unquote, normal looking models that I don't know.

[Chelsea Ferless]

If they were normal looking. There was something weird about them. Especially like Maggie Reiser. She was so genius because she was so like on one hand she had this sort of like corn fed quality and like the kind of girl that would look normal in like something preppy like Ralph Lauren or Tommy Hilfiger or something like that. But she also just looked so weird when she was modeling for other designers, you know. And it was so nice to see her in Prada because she hasn't modeled for years. She became a real estate agent.

[Lauren Garoni]

No.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, she became a very successful real estate agent. She retired from modeling, unlike a lot of these girls and has only now, I believe, joined IMG and started to model again. And when I saw her in the Prada show, I was more just shocked that Phoebe Filo or someone hadn't gotten to her sooner because I feel like her face, especially as she's aged, it's just unbelievably glamorous. Also, I think Tasha Tilberg was in some shows at New York Fashion Week that was cool. Like I love all of those girls to death. They were kind of like a little bit post Kate Moss, pre Giselle.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think by normal I just meant girls who did not have an intention of being a model or maybe street cast or cast by photographer came from British underground magazines like the Face or something or id.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, they weren't cast because they had like traditional sex appeal or like model sex appeal or like a bombshell quality, which is obviously why we fucked with them. Moving on. Bottega Veneta also has a new creative director, Louise Trotter.

[Lauren Garoni]

Actually a woman.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Actually a woman. What did we think or what did you think?

[Lauren Garoni]

I thought it was incredible.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I thought it was good, but I wasn't blown away.

[Lauren Garoni]

Interesting. Because you felt like it was too close to Matu Blasi's work.

[Chelsea Ferless]

No, actually I don't feel like it was that close. I think it was strong, and I do think that any designer that comes into a big luxury house should have time to sort of evolve their vision. I think this was very strong, and I think these clothes were very beautiful, for sure. But I think Louise Trotter's biggest hindrance is that she was coming into a situation that wasn't a dumpster fire to begin with, which is what happened basically with Versace and with Gucci. The previous designer was so good that they were poached by Chanel. So she's coming into that. I think from a craftsmanship standpoint, I think Bottega is kind of a leader, kind of unparalleled. But I think I liked sort of the color palette and the sort of idiosyncratic qualities that Michieu brought to Bottega that I feel like were dialed down a bit with this show.

[Lauren Garoni]

I think that she played up a lot of textures. There were those pieces that I was looking online seemed to be made out of recycled polyester, which is those shiny kind of Muppet looking sweaters and dresses.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Right, like the fiber optic. Yeah, I loved that stuff. It was gorgeous.

[Lauren Garoni]

So I think those were strong. I see your point that the core identity that certainly Daniel Lee and then Matou Blasey created with Bottega Veneta, she wasn't going in a different direction. I think she was just building on the strength of the previous two creative directors.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't know. I think she made it actually a little bit more like it was before them. A little bit in terms of, like, the color palette and the like. And I like the silhouette. Like, I think a lot of people's criticism of the show was that it was kind of. It was all big and oversized and clunky and like, those are all things that I love. So I don't give a shit about that. Like, I would love to wear this stuff. But yeah, I. I also loved, like, in this show, there was these sort of stiff, utilitarian work shirts. We also saw a bit of that in Prada. And, you know, ladies, we can get the look for less. We just need to start buying shirts from, like, workwear labels like Carhartt and Ben Davis. You know, maybe getting it tailored a.

[Lauren Garoni]

Little bit, getting a size 2 XL Ben Davis. But then also just bringing it to a tailor, maybe bringing it in a little bit on the sides or probably.

[Chelsea Ferless]

More bringing it up.

[Lauren Garoni]

Or should I wear it Carrie Bradshaw style with a little belt?

[Chelsea Ferless]

There are no rules.

[Lauren Garoni]

I thought it was a strong debut. It'll sell very well. I Mean, this is a socioeconomic bracket. I can only imagine. Like, I can't imagine how expensive all of this stuff is.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. And, like, most of it isn't real clothes. Like, at best, there will be, like, three of these pieces at the store that are, like, you know, like the. And by that, I mean, like, the trench coats and, like, the really intense, like, leather. Ready to wear.

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah. If we're lucky, this will show up in an editorial or two.

[Chelsea Ferless]

But with Bottega, it's, like, always about selling the bags. And I do think that this does a good job of selling the bags.

[Lauren Garoni]

And I've. Ever since I was a little girl, I've always been a fan of a furry bag. The faker. The more muppety, the better. So I fell in love with that.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So I also. I don't actually want to talk about the Dolce show, because why. I do want to talk about the fact that it was completely upstaged by Meryl Streep coming in character with Stanley Tucci. With Stanley Tucci as Miranda Priestly. I saw this, and I was like, of course Dolce is, like, the only show that would let them do this. And I get it, because, like, I think normally other brands might be more receptive. But this year, just because it's these big debuts from, like, all these new designers, like, no one would want Meryl Streep to upstage that, pull focus.

[Lauren Garoni]

I had the same thought as well, although there's still a few days left in Paris Fashion Week. But I agree with you. Dolce and Gabbana would be the only brand that would allow this to happen at their fashion show. And it's funny you say that, because I'm like, oh, I don't even remember seeing a single look from the Dolce and Gabbana fashion show. All I've seen seen is the footage of them in the front row.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Oh, the show is, like, rhinestone encrusted pajamas. But that's so smart of Dolce because it's like, they still got as much attention as a lot of these other brands solely because of Meryl Streep. And why not?

[Lauren Garoni]

Did you see the clip on the Vogue Instagram of Anna Wintour talking to Meryl Streep? Meryl Streep in her Miranda Priestley wig, but seemingly out of character, saying to Anna Wintour, this was her first ever fashion show.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Wait, really? Okay, that's insane. No, surely she's been to, like, a Donna Karan show back in the day or something.

[Lauren Garoni]

I don't know. It feels like the era where celebrities would be in the front row fashion shows is kind of beyond Meryl Streep.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I don't know, though. I feel like she's the kind of girl that would be, like, at a Ralph Lauren show or something. I'm not saying she's going to Paris. I'm saying she might just be going to Madison Avenue at some point. Maybe this was her first fashion show.

[Lauren Garoni]

I was thinking about, you know, a couple episodes ago, we talked about Robert Altman's Pret A Porter, and I was thinking about other instances where films have filmed at legit fashion shows. And it reminded me of the Zoolander 2 shooting at the Valentino show a couple years ago.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, that was so good.

[Lauren Garoni]

But I didn't see the film. Did you?

[Chelsea Ferless]

You didn't see Zoolander 2?

[Lauren Garoni]

I didn't.

[Chelsea Ferless]

That's crazy. It wasn't good. But, like, you should see it.

[Lauren Garoni]

I know the answer to this one, even though I'm about to ask this, but, like, Devil wears Prada 2 is so overexposed at this point. What is there left to see? I asked this knowing, like, we are gonna see it in theaters, but it does feel like I've seen a lot.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Of the movie already, and that's fine. The same was true of Barbie, and we still enjoy that, you know, when push came to shove.

[Lauren Garoni]

Although these are probably all of the paparazzi shots and certainly this Dolce and Gabbana fashion show, I'm sure it's part of a much larger montage. Like, this was probably 5 seconds of the film.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, I think it's cool that they shot on location, and I hope that someone in Paris will also let Miranda Priestly attend their fashion show.

[Lauren Garoni]

Eli Sobbs. Like, you can shoot at our Runway show, and they're like, we're good. It's okay.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Rude.

[Lauren Garoni]

All right, that does it for Milan Fashion Week. I actually have to go, which is unfortunate because you are about to interview friend of the show, Maritza Meltzer about her new book. I'm sorry, I can't stay for that, but I can't wait to listen to what you guys talk about.

[Chelsea Ferless]

You will be missed until next week.

[Lauren Garoni]

All right, bye, guys.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Guys, today we have a very special guest who is no stranger to the Every Outfit podcast. She is here to talk about her new book, It Girl the Life and Legacy of Jane Birkin. Welcome back, Marissa Meltzer.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So I was curious, how did Jane Birkin first enter into your life? And did you ever have a phase where you tried to dress like her.

[Marissa Meltzer]

That actually I never did. I think probably because I have curly hair and, and bangs were just like never going to work for me. And we have such different body types. So I was never like a super mod girl in that way. But I did get into her in that era because I was in college and I had, you know, a boyfriend that was really into music. So I learned about Serge Gainsbourg through him. And then, you know, I was watching movies like Blow up and La Piscine and all of those things. So I had this like understanding of who she was. And I knew she was the namesake later of the Birkin, but once she died, I kind of realized I just knew just enough about her to know that her life was fascinating, but also enough to know that there was like a lot for me to learn and therefore process and explain to the world.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. When I was reading your book, it occurred to me that she's someone that a lot of people know a little bit about and it's not necessarily the same things. And I think a lot of Americans, I think we primarily think of her as like a, as a style icon maybe before an actress or a singer. And also I think a lot of Americans do legitimately think that she's French. Can you debunk this myth?

[Marissa Meltzer]

He is not French. In fact, the first subtitle of my book was like the Ultimate French Girl. Kind of as a joke or like a kind of thing about her style, I guess. And people kept dming me and saying, well, you know, she's not French. And it's like, yeah, no, I wrote 300 pages. I. I did understand that she was born and raised in London and she moved to France when she was 21 and never moved back. And almost all of her films are in French. So you know, not to. I don't mean to be too much of a bitch. Like it's very easy to understand why someone would think that she's French. But she was very much a part of that kind of like youthquake swinging 60s era. Her mom was one of Noel Coward's muses in like as a stage actress. So. And her dad, her dad's sort of family owned a lathe company, so they were very British. But. But yeah, she left for a role in a movie called slogan in 19. In May 1968, quite the time in French history, and fell in love with her co star and stayed there.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I'm curious, do you find Serge Gainsbourg hot at all or did the research like, for this book turn you off from him forever.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Tell me to know what you think, because I'm always interested in your. The men that you're attracted to. Like, your Tom Selleck thing fascinates me.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I think Serge Gainsbourg is disgusting, personally. Like, I kind. I kind of get it. And I respect his artistry, of course. Like, that makes him hot. And obviously the fact that he pulls all of these, like, incredibly hot chicks.

[Marissa Meltzer]

You would love his house, that. The house. His house that they lived in together is now kind of a new museum in Paris. And the house is very. I'm not saying it's very you. I don't think that you and Tat would have black walls. But I famously have very strange taste in men that are sort of all over the place. I definitely find him sexy. I don't necessarily that I think that he's hot, but he's. He is kind of my type. Like, I'm not into pretty boys that much, and he seems like he fucks, if I'm, you know, being honest. But I can't get over what I imagined to be the smell because he smoked five packs of unfiltered cigarettes a day. And he was really devoted to the bidet, but would only take a bath, like, every three months. And so I just don't know what the hair smelled like. I mean, you've heard me and Tat talking about our devotion to just, like, shower plus, like, you know, what? Witch hazel. White. I like to be clean. I like to smell good. And I date straight men. They're not necessarily the most hygienic people in the world, but. So I think I have kind of, like, a long leash of what I considered acceptable, but it's just hard for me to imagine. And then, you know, and he was a brute in this way that I kind of always knew about. Like, he kind of lived to shock people and seemed to kind of get off on that. But he was kind of more than that. I think that, you know, there was violence in the relationship. Jane Birkin sort of wouldn't call it abuse or, you know, domestic violence, but there was definitely hitting and slapping and a lot of drama and a lot of, you know, threatening to kill themselves on both sides. Like, I. I am not a person that does dramatic relationships well. And it was hard not and on. Not to say on every page, just, like, how horny and dramatic they were. I define it, and in some ways I admire it because it's so not me. But I also think it's. It's probably pretty. Not a great way to live And I don't think he was always the best partner, but I think she wasn't always the best partner either.

[Chelsea Ferless]

You talk in this book about how Jane's artistic achievements were so often overshadowed by her relationship and her beauty and her style, icon status and all of that stuff. I'm curious as someone that just did a lot of research for this book, like what do you think her best movies, like songs, albums, like where would you recommend that a Jane Birkin novice starts for someone that isn't so familiar with her body of work?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Oh, that's fun. She did two Agatha Christie movies in the late 70s, which is some of the only kind of like English language stuff she did. And there are those late 70s when she's in Death in the Nile, like Maggie Smith is in them and Mia Farrow, all kinds of famous people from that era. And they're good and they're kind of like very camp. And they were filmed on location at like the pyramid. So they're beautiful. I think La Piscine is probably my favorite of her movies. It's just like how I would like to live my minus kind of death, but like how I'd like to live my life. Like just hanging out in a villa outside of Santrope and just like swimming and making out and having like jam and toast all the time.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, that one I actually have seen.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, it's a lot of like their biggest activity of the day is like going to town and buying groceries. That's the lifestyle that I want. But again if things do get dark, you know, there's a little scene, kind of minor Merchant Ivory film she made in late 90s or the aughts called A Soldier's Daughter Never Cries starring Lily Sobieski. And it's about this family that lives in Paris and then moves back to Texas. And Jane Birkin plays the very eccentric British mother of her, like gay, French, English, kind of best friend.

[Chelsea Ferless]

That sounds fab.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, yeah. And it takes place in I want to say late 70s or something like that. So that one is cool. And. And then obviously the documentaries. Agnes Varda did an incredible documentary on her called Jane B by Agnes v about turning 40 and then her daughter Charlotte did Jane by Charlotte right before she died. I think it came out in maybe like, like 2021 or something like that.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Do you think the Charlotte Gainsbourg one is good though or are you just into it? Because there's a scene where they go to a shopping for bulldogs.

[Marissa Meltzer]

No, I knew that. I knew you were gonna say that. I mean the Bulldog scene really did get me, I'm not gonna lie. As always, I like to remind everyone that both Chelsea and I are not only friends, but we're fellow English bulldog owners. I brought mine off at dog camp this morning. Yeah, no, that scene was absolutely the highlight for me. I don' that it's a good documentary, but I think it's trying to do something interesting. And the fact that it's kind of some of the last public footage and recordings of her singing her songs before she died feels important to me. I think it's worth watching, you know, as a. As a fan.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So we have to get into the bag. Another thing that has overshadowed this woman to some extent. Book.

[Marissa Meltzer]

It's about. It's about when things overshadow you and then trying to actually talk about who the woman is. But.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yes.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Would you want a Birkin bag?

[Chelsea Ferless]

It's not me. I don't know. Unless it's the original Jane Birkin one with the Free Tibet stickers. Like, I just don't. I can't imagine how that would factor into my life.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I do think of you as very.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Free to bed, but you're Hermes girl.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I am an Hermes girl. I would love a Birkin, but not like, hot pink. I would want a old black one. Or my ideal would be, like, a really dark green.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, that would be fab. See, I knew the lore of the Birkin and, and how it was developed. It was inspired by Jane. And because Jane was carrying, frankly, a basket purse full of garbage all around the world. And finally someone was like, bitch. Like, this is disgusting. You need, like, a real bag. I did not realize that she was involved, like, in the design process so much. Can you talk about that a little bit?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah. I mean, part of the lore of the Birkin is that it's this kind of like, rom com, meet cute story in that Jane Birkin was on an Air France flight from London to Paris. And yeah, she literally carried baskets as bags since she was a teenager. And they were. She was the kind of girl, very it girl behavior where it's like, there's a planner, there's a Dostoevsky novel, there are cigarettes, there's loose change in cash. You know, like the time she had a baby, there were diapers. And I think even worse this time, the basket was falling apart because in a fight, her boyfriend at the time had, like, run it over in his car or like, tried to break it or something. Very dramatic. So they started kind of drawing what her ideal bag would be and was on an airsick Bag because they were on a plane. And she was actually really good at drawing her. Her diaries and kind of, you know, some of her interviews and stuff. She would, like, accompany little drawings. They're very cute. And so I imagine she was probably good at drawing, like, a bag prototype. And it was based a little bit on the hack bag, which is like a huge saddle bag that. From Hermes, that Serge Gainsbourg would carry kind of as like a luggage bag. So it was sort of like her idea of a kind of unisex sex tote bag. And then it became, you know, the most famous thing of all time.

[Chelsea Ferless]

In your research, did you ever find out, like, what Jane Birkin thought about the Birkin episode of Sex and the City? Or was that even on her radar?

[Marissa Meltzer]

I don't think it was on her radar. I, I tried because I, I. It was such an early sort of Birkin moment that I think really solidified it, because before that. But Carolyn Bessette Kennedy carried one, and that was kind of the first non. Sort of like rich person, socialite. Like, more someone who had crossed over into mainstream that you saw with them. So I don't know. I mean, one thing about Jane Birkin is that when she moved to France, even though she went back to England and toured in America, her life was very French. Like French designers, French media acting in French. I don't know that she saw Sex in the City. I hope so, but I don't know. I think she would have been a Miranda Carrie combo, but maybe a carrot.

[Chelsea Ferless]

No, that checks out. So while I have you, I want to talk about some other it girl news, and I wanted to start with your recent profile of Sofia Coppola and Marc Jacobs for the New York Times.

[Marissa Meltzer]

What was that like?

[Chelsea Ferless]

Because if I was a journalist, these would be my dream subjects.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, I mean, it kind of is a dream. I mean, in some ways, my. As I've been a journalist, I'm more and more interested in profiling people who are just, like, talkers who will say stuff. Because you could interview someone who's so fascinating, like the Olsen twins or something like that to me, but I don't know they're gonna say anything, and then it's ultimately not that satisfying. But, you know, Marc Jacobs is such a talker, and together they have such this kind of, like, endearing and electric chemistry. So it was very easy. I kind of just sat there and guided the conversation and let it rip. And we talked for way longer than we had. And then it was after the premiere of a Mark by Sophia documentary And then afterwards, there was a party at Dionne von Furstenberg's palazzo. So it was quite a day for girls of all ages. They were lovely. I mean, it's strange because I think I kind of dissociate or I'm able to kind of put myself aside. But even just watching the documentary and talking to them, I know how much of my own life is. Was influenced by them. I can remember the first pair of Marc Jacobs shoes I bought around probably 2000, wearing ex girl and Milk Fed and, you know, seeing the Sofia Coppola movies when they came out. And, you know, those people are so important to who I am and how I've shaped the world even before I knew it. I mean, Life Without Zoe, which is a movie that her dad did in New York Story, is a short movie that she styled. And it's all of these. These like 1112 year old girls in Manhattan who were wearing chanel, like late 80s stuff. It's like the peak. And I think that I decided was the height of what's cool. And honestly, I still kind of dress like that or aspire to that life. Every year I get closer to it.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Well, yeah, I wanted to talk about this new Chanel couture book that Sophia Coppola edited with you because you are one of the few Chanel girls in my life. I just got it this week. I am truly stunned by this book.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I have it too. I have it right in front of me. It's really beautiful.

[Chelsea Ferless]

It's not cheap, it's $120, but it is like the most expensive book that you can get for $120.

[Marissa Meltzer]

The thing with Sofia Coppola is just her taste level never fails. It's just, you know, she's really good at mood boards. And, you know, combining the photos. Like, there's an incredible photo of just front row at a Chanel show. And it's like Barbra Streisand in leopard with a matching leopard hat. And I think Diana Rigg might be in there. And then it's sort of other people in more traditional Chanel skirt suits. And then the next page will be someone from like 1988. It's so good. And it's also fun to see, like some of the things like the slingbacks that I in the ballet flats that I own and wear and love, you know, that. That are still kind of going strong. I don't know. It's. It's beautiful. It's expensive. But if you're gonna buy a coffee table book, I feel like It's a pretty good one.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. I have a lot of Chanel books, and this one is just really, really good.

[Lauren Garoni]

That.

[Chelsea Ferless]

That photo of, like, Tina Chow and Karl Lagerfeld and Fran Leibovitz in a time tuxedo.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I know. I know Tina Chow, like, probably my number one Chanel client in terms of the way that she wore it and style it. I love those simple, long Chanel dresses with, like, the piles of jewelry. It's just so cool looking. And I guess we should say this one is specifically about couture. It's not necessarily the Runway shows, even though those are great. It's about the couture ones. And so you really see, like, like, the details, the audience, the bouffant, the clientele, the screens. It's great. I love it.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, I think it's worth buying for that one Runway photo of. I think it's Ines de la Fressage in that, like, pink taffeta ensemble with, like, a feathered, like, Pierrot type collar. It's just so, so fab.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I know that. I mean, that's very. I. I am so Pierrot in my. At least in my head. That. Yeah, it just so appeals to me. And, you know, Jane Birkin, I always wanted to see some photo of her pop up in Chanel, but she was not really a Chanel girl. I spent a lot of time going to as many fashion archives as I could in Paris, and one was the Alaia archives, and she didn't really wear Alaia either, but The Alaia was. Mr. Alaia was, like a big collector of other designers, so he had Chanel couture from, like, the 60s and stuff like that. It was cool. Some of this era. It was cool to see in person.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I also love that we got this bit of it girl lore in the forward of this book where Sofia Coppola talks about the fact that she only got that Chanel internship when she was 15, because Carol Bouquet, the actress and model who played Petrovsky's ex wife on Sex in the City, I know at.

[Marissa Meltzer]

The restaurant on top of the Pompidou.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Kong is what it's called.

[Marissa Meltzer]

She currently closed while they undergo renovation, but I can't wait for it to reopen.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I love that this woman is the reason why Sophia Coppola got that internship. It's just. It's so good.

[Marissa Meltzer]

So good. It's. It all makes sense. I mean, Sophia Coppola is one of those IT girls who has truly endured. You know, like, she's kind of beat the Nepo Baby allegations by, you know, proving her own sort of talent and vision, but then also just feeling relevant. She was relevant in the 90s and she still feels relevant now. It's. I'm always impressed by her and she seems like she's happy. She has like a nice husband and, you know, lives in the West Village. Like, I. I'll take it.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. Her life seems fab. Also, she is someone that was very much inspired by Jane Birkin's fashion sense, for sure. Cause I feel like when I was like a teenager, I don't think I knew who Jane Birkin was until I was maybe in my late teens or like when I first got to college, I had seen her style trickle down via Sofia Coppola and Kate Moss and even someone like Kim Gordon, who I also feel like, like was looking to Jane in a really major way. Yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

If you look at some of those kind of like triangle shaped dresses, what is the name for that? A line. A line. Yeah, I guess like the A line ex girl dresses and little T shirts and stuff like that is very Jane Birkin and the kind of like baby doll miniskirt look. Always wearing flats. Yeah, that's very much a version of. Of her.

[Chelsea Ferless]

So something else related to Sofia Coppola that has happened recently is this Manolo Blahnik Marie Antoinette collab. It was released in conjunction with this exhibition that I think the VNA did about Marie Antoinette. Is that what it is?

[Lauren Garoni]

Yeah.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I'm thinking of going to London for a long weekend just to see it. I love the 18th century.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, it looks amazing. But Manolo Blahnik released this capsule collection and it was kind of based on the designs that he did for Sofia Coppola's film Marie Antoinette.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, it's cool. I would buy them, except I already look so sort of naturally of another century and already have like, my. My joke at every museum is like, how I just look like every man and woman in a powdered wig. So I just think I look a little too costume drama in them. But I like them. I just think. I think they'd be better on someone else. I think I have to keep it a little more modern or sleek or I look like I'm doing some kind of strange cosplay of a Venetian ball or something like that.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah, for me too. They're way too girly. Like, I feel like that's a little bit at odds with my gender. But, like, at the same time, I walked by the Manolo Blahnik store in Miami and I saw them in the window before I even Saw them online and I was like, this is the most stunning shoe I have ever seen in my life. Like, I love that it's. There's so much drama and I love that they went so hard with them.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah, they did. The heel is good. I think I'm not the kind of person who buys things just to kind of have an archive or collect, but they'd be perfect for that because they are so, so cool to look at. I think that they'd be great on someone, but it's neither one of us. They make me feel gender euphoria, but for someone else.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. I mean, they're shoes for Sarah Jessica Parker and Chapel Roan. Really?

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yeah. Like. Or like someone who used to be the Molly Goddard client and is, like, wearing Simone Rocha or something like that.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. And I support that woman.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I love that woman. It's just. Just. Yeah, that woman isn't me. But that's also part of loving fashion, is loving things that you aren't necessarily going to wear, which I always say good to. Because I already buy and consume far too much. I'm. I welcome anything I don't want to buy. I like. What? You know, if Machu Blasis Chanel is not suited to me, good.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Yeah. I hope it's not suited to me, otherwise I'm going to kill myself.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I actually think it might, and it's going to be a problem for. For you. I bought an Alaia sweater. I was in Paris a month ago on my way to Venice to interview Sophia and Mark, which is such a pretentious sentence, but whatever. I went to the Elias store and bought a sweater and I might go back and get one. And I know it's getting problematic because my sales girl asked me what hotel I was staying at, is presumably to send me, like, cookies or flowers or something, and I was like, oh, I'm in too deep.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I love that. Where the aliah to our talk, which we should be plugging right about now.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Yes. Plug it at the top and we'll plug it now. So it's on Saturday, October 11, in downtown LA, and it's to celebrate it, girl. And I'm in conversation with you and it's gonna be hard because all I want to do is just sort of rehash slash Miami or, like, things like that I want to buy or things that you want to buy. But we'll keep it on topic. But, you know, I like. I like a loose conversation.

[Chelsea Ferless]

But yeah, we'll try to talk about Jane Birkin at least a little bit.

[Marissa Meltzer]

But it, girl. Dumb is a topic so close to both of our hearts that it's easy to kind of to cover. But I think the book is. Is good. I worked really hard on it and I think that there is a lot of. To think about just because she was like, dealing with a lot of stuff we all deal with now of just like what happens when your image is kind of divorced from you and people only see, see the highlight reels of your life and all these things that like, normal people are dealing with on social media. She had to process, you know, decades before. So, yeah, I don't know. I think there's a lot to learn. And she's fascinating.

[Chelsea Ferless]

She's fascinating. The book is fascinating. Congratulations, Marissa, and thank you for joining me. Thank you once again.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Always happy to be here. Maybe Lauren will get pregnant again and I can.

[Chelsea Ferless]

We'll see. I'll ask her.

[Marissa Meltzer]

I'm like the present, you know?

[Chelsea Ferless]

All right, well, I love you, honey. So good talking to you, as always.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Send my love to tat.

[Chelsea Ferless]

I will. And to everyone else listening, Lauren and I will be back next week to talk about the new Taylor Swift album, Paris Fashion Week and everything else. Bye, guys.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Bye, everyone. Goodbye. Goodbye.

[Chelsea Ferless]

Au revoir.

[Marissa Meltzer]

Sorry. I'll do this all day. I can get real. Study abroad, girl.