243: On Diane Keaton, Wendy Williams, Victoria Beckham

Summary

Every Outfit – Episode 243: On Diane Keaton, Wendy Williams, Victoria Beckham

Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garrone
Date: October 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Every Outfit is a bittersweet, bitchy, and hilariously candid review of a very eventful week in pop culture and fashion. Chelsea and Lauren mourn personal and cultural losses (RIP Diane Keaton, Mr. Big the dog), serve up acerbic commentary on a variety of current events, and taste-test ridiculous celebrity beverages. They dive deep into the Wendy Williams conservatorship saga, the highs and lows of the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show reboot, and a critique of the new Victoria Beckham documentary. There's even a rapid-fire review of the new Paul Thomas Anderson film—and a Joan Rivers memorabilia lament. As ever, the tone is snarky, self-aware, and peppered with genuinely insightful, often emotional commentary.

Tasting Celebrity Beverages

[01:30-06:44]

• The hosts begin by sampling two celebrity beverages:
  • Ben Stiller’s Shirley Temple canned soda:
    • “It’s not comparable to a full fat Shirley Temple … but it’s less gross than most of these probiotic sodas.” – Chelsea [05:56]
  • Billy Corgan’s Erewhon smoothie ("OG Goth"):
    • Thick, gray, made with coconut goo, almond milk, cacao, and black sesame butter.
    • Lauren recounts a cashier warning: “It’s really thick and it’s really peanut buttery.” [03:22]
    • Both are bemused by the lack of pumpkin in a Smashing Pumpkins tie-in.
    • “We’re fully drinking mud. This is mud, with like, some crazy protein powder in here.” – Chelsea [05:00]
• Mocking the absurd cost ($40 for the smoothie). Lauren is determined to finish it on principle regardless of how awful it tastes.

Notable Moment

• "Despite all my rage, I'm still just a bat in a cage." – Lauren, misquoting Smashing Pumpkins and prompting Chelsea’s mock outrage [05:26]

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Mourning Mr. Big (Chelsea’s Dog)

[07:04-10:16]

• Chelsea shares sad news: her dog Mr. Big has passed away.
  • “If I didn’t laugh, I would cry.”—Chelsea [07:30]
  • Recalls the surreal “Make-a-Wish” period feeding gourmet food because the vet said he had only a week left, only for him to hang on for months.
  • They note the uncanny timing: both hosts and many friends have lost dogs recently, as have many characters in pop culture.
  • Lauren jokes: “They’re gonna think that we’ve done something to these dogs.” [09:34]

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Remembering Diane Keaton

[10:16-22:34]

• The hosts pay emotional tribute to Diane Keaton, reflecting on why her death feels so shocking and personal.
  • “I can’t remember the last time I’d been quite this upset about a celebrity dying.” – Chelsea [11:03]
  • Discuss the confusing trend of media posting black-and-white photos that look like obits for older celebrities.
  • Keaton's death from pneumonia and long-term health issues is discussed along with her architectural and artistic legacy.
  • Chelsea credits Keaton's uniform style for her timelessness:
    • “Like Andy Warhol said, people that have uniforms are more untouched by the passage of time … that’s so true of her.” – Chelsea [12:51]
  • They touch on Keaton’s achievements beyond acting: as a director, book editor, and architectural conservationist.
  • Both hosts share their favorite Keaton-edited books in a mini “show and tell.”
• Acknowledgement of Keaton’s loyalty to Woody Allen (and the problematic public statements she made supporting him): The hosts note it’s complicated to process this aspect of Keaton.

Notable Quotes

• “She was such a specific person. She’s irreplaceable for that reason.” – Chelsea [13:47]
• “I love you, Diane Keaton, but what am I supposed to do with this interview where Woody Allen’s like, Turns out all that bad shit I was accused of, I didn’t do it.” – Lauren [22:27]

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Fashion News & Commentary

Skims Merkin Thong

[22:44-25:52]

• Skims (Kim Kardashian’s brand) released a "merkin thong," causing controversy and confusion.
  • “She’s copying Galliano and Westwood? They didn’t invent merkins. That was actually sex workers with raging STDs during the medieval era.” – Chelsea [23:32]
  • Lauren’s husband may be tangentially involved with Skims’ business.
  • The product is already sold out; Chelsea admits to buying one and promises to report back.

Maria Grazia Chiuri Moves to Fendi

[25:52-27:22]

• The hosts provide a brief, resigned summary of Maria Grazia Chiuri (ex-Dior) taking over at Fendi—concluding that luxury fashion is so expensive now it barely matters for real people.

The Absurdity of Luxury Price Points

[27:22-29:58]

• They mock the rising cost of high fashion, noting $13,000 shorts and $10,000 bra tops in current collections, even at brands like Versace and Armani.
• Their real-world solution is to shop on The RealReal for secondhand designer finds.

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The Wendy Williams Conservatorship Saga

[32:07-40:32]

• Deep-dive into the New York Magazine piece on Wendy Williams’ legal and health spiral.
  • “There are no reliable narrators in the Wendy Williams story, and that includes Wendy Williams herself.” – Chelsea [32:16]
  • Details of the questionable guardianship, including lack of family legal action, high lawyer fees, and Wendy being placed in a memory care unit against her will.
  • "It's so sick and sad...so many people around her are trying to exploit her." – Chelsea [34:53]
  • Lauren relates this to the broader dangers of adult guardianship abuse in America.
  • The original bank (Wells Fargo) triggered legal proceedings after Wendy's son attempted to get power of attorney under dubious circumstances.
  • “You may enter the arrangement voluntarily, but you cannot leave it of your own free will.” – legal scholar cited by Lauren [36:04]
  • Most people never escape court-ordered guardianship.

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The Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show Reboot

[42:04-51:49]

• Second year since the show's attempted "inclusive rebrand" after past cancellations.
• Red carpet hosted by Law Roach and Zanna Roberts Rassi, featuring cameos from Amy Sedaris (supporting friend Adam Selman, the new show designer) and Sarah Jessica Parker.
  • SJP gets hilariously uncomfortable when asked what she’s wearing: “It's nothing. It's really nothing. It's just pieces I've had in my closet forever.” [44:01]
• On the catwalk: return of OG angels like Adriana Lima, with Bella Hadid bravely walking post-illness.
  • “Her wings were really heavy. They were, like, 50 pounds, apparently.” – Chelsea [48:55]
  • A memorable live mishap—one model falls just as Amerie’s "One Thing" plays ("It's just this one thing that's got me tripping").
• Review of the show's new vibe:
  • “It feels like an old Victoria’s Secret fashion show, including bringing back some of the OG models… but it’s definitely gotten cooler.” – Lauren [48:22]
  • Cheeky critique on inclusion, commercialism, and camp.
• Brief tangent on missing out on Joan Rivers memorabilia at auction.
  • “If someone knocked on my door and was like, would you like to buy this for $380? The answer is yes.” – Chelsea [52:27]

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Victoria Beckham Documentary

[54:13-67:16]

• Chelsea and Lauren dissect the new documentary, ultimately finding it glossy but unsatisfying for superfans.
  • “I would watch five more hours of it. I did not enjoy it as much as the David Beckham doc.” – Lauren [54:16]
  • Critiques: Timeline errors, glossing over the “second” Spice Girls album and her solo flop. Victoria's eating disorder discussed only obliquely (despite signs like the “watermelon birthday cake”).
  • No real insight into her transition as a designer, strained family relationships, or what led to not designing her daughter-in-law’s wedding dress.
  • “It’s a documentary that all of the juiciest parts are in the trailer.” – Lauren [56:35]
  • Speculation on “the mean fashion journalist” (likely Cathy Horyn).
  • They praise her perseverance, business sense, and link to Roland Mouret, whose silhouette inspired her early work.

Notable Moment

• “Guys, this is why I don't smile, because David makes me take photos on this side.” – Victoria Beckham, cited by the hosts [64:44]

Bonus Tangent

• The hosts imagine a Spice Girls sphere residency in Las Vegas as an ideal, low-effort reunion.

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One Battle After Another (Paul Thomas Anderson Film Review)

[67:23-84:13]

• Chelsea and Lauren rave about the new PTA film, comparing it to The Big Lebowski meets Dr. Strangelove:
  • “Way funnier than I was expecting.” – Lauren [69:09]
• Discuss the plot, performances, and especially Sean Penn’s standout role (“I do think Sean Penn will be winning his third Oscar” – Lauren [69:41])
• Dissection of the film's critical reception:
  • The film’s nuanced view of race and revolutionary politics divides audiences; Ben Shapiro hates it (“If Ben Shapiro is even talking about your film, you’re doing something right.” – Chelsea [78:58]), and some critics allege stereotyping in the portrayal of Black women.
  • The hosts acknowledge the criticism, especially around Teyana Taylor’s character, but also see the film as self-aware and deftly written.
• Tangent on the economics of making prestige films—debating why the budget ballooned to $130m and celebrating studio heads still bankrolling "difficult" auteur cinema.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is the third dog that we have lost collectively, you and me, in the last three years. And at what point will people just start thinking that we're killing them?” – Chelsea [09:26]
• “There are no reliable narrators in the Wendy Williams story, and that includes Wendy Williams herself.” – Chelsea [32:16]
• “She is a very understanding mother... to a daughter who wants to get married at her childhood home, to a lesbian. To a daughter that wants to fuck Jack Nicholson and brings him to her Hamptons home. Who gave you permission to do that? Amanda? Pete.” – Lauren [17:02]
• “You may enter the arrangement voluntarily, but you cannot leave it of your own free will.” – Cited legal scholar [36:04]
• “It's no Unzipped, but I enjoyed watching it.” – Chelsea on the Beckham doc [54:13]

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Key Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 01:30-06:44: Celebrity beverage taste test (Stiller Shirley Temple and Erewhon Billy Corgan smoothie)
• 07:04-10:16: Chelsea’s dog Mr. Big passes away; grief and “cursed” dog content in pop culture
• 10:16-22:34: Diane Keaton's death; legacy, books, architecture, complicated Woody Allen friendship
• 22:44-25:52: Kim Kardashian’s Skims releases (and sells out) a merkin thong
• 27:22-29:58: The absurdity of current luxury fashion prices
• 32:07-40:32: Deep dive into Wendy Williams’ conservatorship and New York Magazine expose
• 42:04-51:49: Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show recap—red carpet feels, inclusion, camp, and a model fall
• 54:13-67:16: Victoria Beckham documentary critique; what it covers and what it misses
• 67:23-84:13: Review of Paul Thomas Anderson’s "One Battle After Another"—stellar casting, critical response, and big-budget woes

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Tone & Style

The episode is classic Every Outfit: hilarious, irreverent, dense with fashion/pop culture gossip and laughs but underpinned by authentic emotion and sharp, critical insight. Both hosts lean into camp references, deadpan delivery, and trademark “bitchy” asides, self-aware but never mean-spirited.

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Summary by Every Outfit Expert Podcast Summarizer.
For full fashion breakdowns, spicy takes, and more personal laments, listen to the full episode!

Transcript

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[Lauren Garrone]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty? Oral the spring. Tender my arm dress. Oral the spring. Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garrone]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast. Chelsea, in the words of Stanford Blanche, there are beverages present.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There are beverages present. We have two celebrity beverages that we thought we'd test out today. We have Ben Stiller's Shirley Temple. Canned Shirley Temple.

[Lauren Garrone]

So I've been seeing this. I've been seeing Stillers advertised to me on YouTube. I feel a little silly to say I did not realize that Ben Stiller was behind it. I guess I should have given the Stiller's name. But you have informed me that this is not a probiotic drink. Trying to be a soda. It is a soda soda.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a soda soda. Although it has 30 calories and they use agave. So we have this. And we also have Billy Corgan's Erewhon smoothie.

[Lauren Garrone]

Billy Corgan's OG Golf. Erewhan Smoothie. That's the name of it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh yes. I had to go into erewhon and say, two OG Goths, please.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So it's the 30th anniversary of the Smashing Pumpkins album Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness. And somehow that translates into this Erewhon smoothie.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, Billy Corgan is an oddly mass culture person. Like I do remember that when the Smashing Pumpkins were huge in the late 90s, he had an unironic love for wrestling that he still has to this day. But I think a lot of people thought that it was iron.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think he is genuinely a health freak, so it doesn't surprise me that he would drink a smoothie. Although it is a little bizarre to me that there is no pumpkin in this smoothie.

[Lauren Garrone]

There is not. So we should say that it is quite a.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's gray. It's gray with, like black gooey stuff in it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, it's not an Erewhon smoothie without that thick, coconut gooeyness. Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if we should drink this. This doesn't look safe.

[Lauren Garrone]

I will say what I was checking out the was like very nervously. She was like, so have you had this drink before? And I was like, no. Why? And she was like, it's. It's really thick and it's really peanut buttery.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, so should we do this one first?

[Lauren Garrone]

Sure. So just so you know what you're getting yourself into, Chelsea, we have malk organic almond milk. We have GTs alive cola, whatever that is. Cacao. There's electrolytes. Erewhon chocolate ganache, black sesame butter, organic peanut butter.

[Chelsea Fairless]

How many calories is in this?

[Lauren Garrone]

We have made this point about the Hailey Bieber smoothie. Somehow Erewhon has rebranded their smoothies as just celebrity endorsed milkshakes. These things have 700 calories.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, Hailey Bieber has like 800 calories. I think this has got to be upwards of 1000 if it has what you're describing in it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Absolutely. When I was looking up this movie, there was nothing about the fact that it is celebrating the 30th anniversary of melancholy and infinite sadness, which I'm sure so many TikTok influencers that go to Erewhon daily care about. But it did say that proceeds from the sale of this movie will benefit the Concussion Legacy Foundation, a charity which is aimed at supporting athletes, veterans and others affected by concussions and chronic traumatic. Well, I can't say that word. Cte.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, well, that's very noble of Billy Corgan. I can't fuck with that. That's too much.

[Lauren Garrone]

Would you like to describe it? Because for me, it has a mud consistency and a muddish taste to it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, we're fully drinking mud. This is mud with, like, there's like some crazy protein powder in here, Right? Like, this is the kind of smoothie like that a bodybuilder drinks, where it's, like, gritty.

[Lauren Garrone]

You have a point. Because it's like, if you've ever tried to make a smoothie that actually has healthy shit in it, like spinach and blueberries. It looks gray.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This is like peanut butter and sand mixed together.

[Lauren Garrone]

Although it does elicit the feelings of despite all my rage, I'm still just a bat in a cage.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You mean a rat.

[Lauren Garrone]

Is that the lyric? Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Are you fucking crazy? You've lost your goddamn mind.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's the smoothie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You have mom brain.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay, moving on, Distillers. I can't think of a better chaser to our mud smoothie than a Shirley Temple.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, this I can fuck with.

[Lauren Garrone]

This is excellent.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, it's not comparable to a full fat Shirley Temple. You know, you can definitely taste that there's agave in it, but it's less gross than most of these probiotic sodas. Like, nothing is more disgusting than, like, a poppy to me. We don't do spawn for them, do we?

[Lauren Garrone]

Not yet. And seemingly we never will.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I never will.

[Lauren Garrone]

On principle, we cannot co sign on any soda stand in. That will make us immediately shit our pants. Yeah, which is the side effect of poppy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If it tasted good and I shit my pants, I could live with that. But you're telling me it's both.

[Lauren Garrone]

What are we supposed to do about these Erewhon smoothies, Chelsea? I spent $40 on this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And that's something you have to live with.

[Lauren Garrone]

On principle. I'm gonna finish this smoothie. Wow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Ben Stiller's career has really taken some unexpected twists and turns over the years, I must say.

[Lauren Garrone]

Honestly, the box office failure of Zoolander 2 did wonders for him. It gave us severance, and it gave us Stiller soda.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, moving on. We have some bad news. Bad news only on every outfit. So let's kick things off with some bad news from my personal life. I had a really shit week because my dog, Mr. Big, passed away.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wait, what?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, shut the fuck up. You knew about this? I did know about it, and it's not funny. I'm only laughing about this because if I didn't laugh, I would cry. But he had cancer, which I found out about over the summer. I distinctly remember Lauren and I recapping that episode of and Just like that where Carrie tells Miranda that Richard Burton has cancer. And after we recorded that episode, I took him to the vet because he had been acting a little lethargic, and they were like, your dog has cancer. I'm pretty sure that and just like that killed my dog in retribution for us talking so much shit about it.

[Lauren Garrone]

You do make a solid point. I will say I am glad that end Just like that is over. For no other reason than during its first season, my grandfather died. During the second season, Francis Kito died. And I am happy to say that Mr. Big did hold on all summer. You guys gave him a beautiful life.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, thank you, honey. Yeah, because when I first took him in, they were like, he has cancer and he has no more than a week to live. So I started doing all of this Make A Wish foundation shit. I was, like, taking him to Nobu for, like, Wagyu skewers and shit like that. But then he just, like, didn't die. He kind of recovered and was then used to eating all of this crazy shit, which he never ate before. So by the end, I felt like a witch sacrificing goats to a dragon because he only ate rotisserie chickens and I was having to buy, like, several rotisseries a week. At least. Least he went out doing what he loved eating. Also through all of this, we found out that he was actually a lot older than we thought he was when we first adopted him. So I guess it's not that crazy, but he was a beautiful, loving dog, and I miss him so much. But Jesus fucking Christ. This is the third dog that we have lost collectively, you and me, in the last three years. And at what point will people just start thinking that we're killing them?

[Lauren Garrone]

I did have that thought. The more subreddit y conspiratorial thought was like, yeah, they're gonna think that we've done something to these dogs. But the other crazy thing is that this year, not only have we both lost dogs, but basically every friend I know who has a dog, that dog has died.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And every single, like, TV show or movie I watch, someone is putting down their dog. Whether it's Lena Dunham's Too Much or It's that Matthew McConaughey firefighter movie that I just watched on Netfl. Too close to home. I don't like it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I like to think that up in doggy heaven, Francis Kito and Mr. Big are sexually harassing Frosty.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm sure they are. In other bad news, Diane Keaton died.

[Lauren Garrone]

As if things couldn't get worse.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sunday morning, I see a text from Chelsea. You sent me a People magazine article, and all I needed to read was Diane Keaton, famed for roles in. And I was like, I know. I know. What's. What's happening. She has died. Which, a side note, publications and social media need to stop posting photos of celebrities of a certain age with black and white photos or with Their roles. Because once a week I am scared to death where it's like, if I see a black and white photo of Stanley Tucci and it's like, stanley Tucci. I'm like, oh, my God, he died. It's like, is launching a pots and pans collection with Crate and Barrel. It's like, stop it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I can't remember the last time I'd been quite this upset about a celebrity die. When Patrick texted me the news, I instantly burst into tears. And also, not since Anna Nicole Smith's death have this many people checked in on me in the immediate aftermath of a celebrity dying.

[Lauren Garrone]

Paul, when I told him the news was like, well, certainly this is going to affect you. And he just sort of took his hand and went up and down like, clearly you're someone who's been highly influenced by Diane Keaton. So this is gonna be a rough week. It's like, yeah. Because also, Diane Keaton is just someone that I thought, like, Katharine Hepburn was just Gonna Live to 104.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know, totally. I find her death to be incredibly spooky. Pneumonia. They sent an ambulance. Cause someone collapsed in her house and she died of pneumonia.

[Lauren Garrone]

We initially did not know the cause of her death. In recent days, it's come out that it was indeed pneumonia. But as things started to come to light sources, she had been in ill health for a while for the majority of this year. It is the reason she put her house up for sale back in March, which I believe we talked about, because this was a house she spent many, many years building.

[Chelsea Fairless]

The house that Pinterest built, and then.

[Lauren Garrone]

Released a book about how she was inspired by Pinterest to build this house.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There were so many bricks on that Pinterest board.

[Lauren Garrone]

I saw someone online say that this was not the 79 year old they were hoping to see was going to pass away.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Ain't that the truth.

[Lauren Garrone]

I also sent you something that upset me way more, which was already on Facebook. I guess what is circulating is AI imagery that makes it look like Bette Midler is giving a eulogy at Diane Keaton's funeral.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, no. Hate that. Disgusting. Actually, to your point about just this expectation that we had that she was going to live longer, I think it makes sense. And I think a lot of it is it's not just the youthful spirit that she had. Right. I do think her fashion choices actually obscured her age in a way because she was so consistent about the way that she dressed. And like Andy Warhol said, people that have uniforms, like, are more untouched by the passage of time because they look the same as time goes by. And I think that's so true of her. And even though she had white hair, it's like it was still like, oh, she's rocking a platinum. Do you know, there was something about it that still just felt really like. I mean 79 is not crazy old for one thing.

[Lauren Garrone]

No. But also it's in the realm of our parents age which also makes it just personally spooky.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, of course. Diane Keaton definitely has qualities that remind me of my mom for sure. And I was talking to her about Diane Keaton and she made the point that like the cool thing about her is that her whole Diane Keaton Persona, it wasn't based on anything. It's not like she was copying anyone. You know, she was who she was. She was such a specific person. She's irreplaceable for that reason.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm not going to stop you.

[Lauren Garrone]

I immediately went to Tubi and watched Baby Boom.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Baby Boom is amazing. I saw that pretty recently or maybe like, four years ago or something. It holds up.

[Lauren Garrone]

That was her first time working with Nancy Myers, who co wrote the film with her husband. They would go on to do Father of the Bride together. Father of The Bride Part 2, which saw Diane Keaton pregnant at the same time as her own daughter, which I saw that film in the theaters at such an impressionable age that I was like, oh, I guess moms are just pregnant at the same time as their daughters. And so I rewatched Father of The Bride Part 2 When I was pregnant. And it's just as weird as I remember it being. I mean, you gotta do a lot of mental gymnastics for it to make sense of, like, wait, I guess if her daughter's, like, 22 and she's 45, and so she had the baby when she had her own daughter at 23. There's a lot of math you gotta do.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. That might have been the first Diane Keaton movie that I saw. Father of the Bride. And I think for millennial age, people like us, even if we've gone back and watched all of her significant films from the 70s and 80s, she is a mother figure because of the combination of Father of the Bride, First Wives Club, and Something's Gotta Give.

[Lauren Garrone]

She is a very understanding mother. To a daughter who wants to get married at her childhood home, to a lesbian. To a daughter that wants to fuck Jack Nicholson and brings him to her Hamptons home. Who gave you permission to do that? Amanda? Pete.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's so true. And, like, she wasn't just a good mom. But all of these movies also sell this very specific fantasy of, like, a perfect, affluent domestic existence that I think is very aspirational. Of course, you know, and there's something about that, like, the full fantasy of that that I find intoxicating. Like Diane Keaton in an expensive house. Like, this is a combination that feels good.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, well, yeah. I mean, these films gave us the phrase a Nancy Meyer's Kitchen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Hilton Owls also wrote a really beautiful piece about her in the New Yorker this week. I'll link to it in the show notes. But he wrote that he thought that people were attracted to her because she has this inherent goodness that shines through in a lot of her performances. Not all of them, because she played some bitches, too, for the most part. I do think that's true.

[Lauren Garrone]

And Diane Keaton was so much more than an actress. She directed two theatrical films. The first one is a movie called Unsrung Heroes, which I have not seen. The second film was Hanging up, which had Meg Ryan and Lisa Kudrow was written by Nora Ephron and her daughter.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, I didn't realize she directed that. Yeah, it's been so long since I've seen it.

[Lauren Garrone]

She also produced Gus Van Sant's Elephant, which I had no idea until I was doing research for this.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wow, that's cool. That's a movie that still keeps me up at night, frankly.

[Lauren Garrone]

She was also an amazing book editor.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This is what people don't talk about enough.

[Lauren Garrone]

And of course, this is all Chelsea and I want to talk about. So much so that we each brought to this recording our favorite Diane Keaton edited book.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We're having a little show and tell. So tell us about your book, Lauren.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I brought Local News, which is a book that Diane Keaton curated and edited that is tabloid pictures from the Los Angeles Herald Express from 1936 to 1961. It is now out of print, but it has an incredibly evocative cover that features, I assume, a man in jail that looks like a mix of Keanu Reeves and Chris Klein in a prone position that is frankly a little kinky.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There's something Bruce Webery about that photo.

[Lauren Garrone]

So what did you bring, Chelsea?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I brought the Diane Keaton book, Still Life. I'm going to assume that this came out in the 80s based on the design of the COVID but she edited this book of like promotional stills from films, mostly Technicolor films, but films between like the 40s and the 70s, really. And she picked the weirdest images imaginable for this book. Like some of them are straight up eerie and it's a mix of just like highly stylized stills and also just like weird behind the scenes kind of set photography and stuff. That's really fascinating. She was just so fucking cool. And she's edited a lot of books that are out of print that I haven't seen, but based on these two, I'm sure they're fab.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think we're going to be expanding the Every Outfit bookshelf with some more Diane Keaton books. She was also a major Los Angeles architectural preservationist. So among the buildings she was active in restoring was the Ennis House in the Hollywood Hills, designed by Frank Lloyd wright in the 1980s. She purchased a 1928 Lloyd Wright design building and meticulously restored the house. She was also active in an unfortunately failed campaign to save the Ambassador Hotel, which is where Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. And yeah, she had this fab Spanish revival house on Roxbury which is still there to this day, that Ryan Murphy bought from her in the early 2000s. And, yeah, I mean, please join us for our dying Keaton bus tour that we will soon be launching.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I don't know the best way to pay tribute to her. Should we do a ton of coke like she did in looking for Mr. Goodbar, or should we adopt, like, Brussels Griffins like her character the First Wives Club, or both?

[Lauren Garrone]

You know what? I'm no longer breastfeeding, so it's all on the table. Also, we would be remiss if we did not mention Diane Keaton's long professional and personal relationship with Woody Allen. She was in eight of his movies, most famously Annie hall, which she won an Oscar for. If you listen to this podcast, I'm sure you're well aware of this. They also dated for several years. She was also one of his most ardent supporters. In light of the Mia Farrow Dylan Farrow abuse allegations. And I will always remember this tweet from 2018 where she wrote, woody Allen is my friend and I continue to believe him. It might be of interest to take a Look at the 60 Minutes interview from 1992 and see what you think. She then linked to a YouTube video of indeed Woody Allen's 60 Minutes interview from 1992, where he's like, I didn't do anything. Which I love, Diane Keaton, but again, what am I.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You're doing a dead woman dirty by bringing this up. Not that it's not fucked up. Not saying that. Not saying that at all. Just pointing that out.

[Lauren Garrone]

I appreciate that. I just wanted to make that clear. We are aware.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Just preemptively managing our comments section.

[Lauren Garrone]

I love you, Diane Keaton, but what am I supposed to supposed to do with this interview where Woody Allen's like, turns out all that bad shit I was accused of, I didn't do it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I remember thinking that that was a kind of campy choice of thing to link to.

[Lauren Garrone]

And then to be like, see what you think it's like. Turns out I think exactly what I thought before.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In other bad news, or is this good news? Skims has made a merkin.

[Lauren Garrone]

We knew this was coming.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I will admit that I did panic by one. I haven't received it yet. And people are like, who is this for exactly? And I will tell you who it's for. It is for people that have permanently lasered off some, if not all, of their pubic hair who want to know what they look like with a full bush, for shits and giggles.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right? Unlike tat, some of us did keep their landing strip.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Hey, it's Also, for people who want to make Halloween costumes about that Margiela couture tour collection, or, like, you know, Bushwick performance artists who love this kind of shit.

[Lauren Garrone]

Chelsea, how much money did we spend on dumb shit this week?

[Chelsea Fairless]

To be fair, I only spent $30 on this merkin. Like, that's not crazy. And also to all the people online who are saying that she's copying Galliano and Westwood, first of all, they did not invent merkins. That was actually sex workers with raging STDs during the medieval era. So I'm sick of y' all overlooking their contributions to fashion. Okay?

[Lauren Garrone]

Period. Well, as someone whose husband may or may not currently be doing work for this company, I think it's brilliant.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Y' all weren't going to be buying merkins from Vivienne Westwood and Margiela anyway. I don't think Margiela even ended up making those merkins.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, no, because as we learned with Glenn Martin's first couture collection, they never produced any of Galliano's couture collections for the stores or for any clientele, really.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think they made some of the shoes, though. No. Did I make that up?

[Lauren Garrone]

This is all to say, for just $30, you yourself can get a merk and thong. Except you can't, because it's sold out.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I had to jump on that. You know what? Also, perfect timing with the Ed Gein Ryan Murphy series.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, Kim is Besties with Ryan Murphy now. Did you see the preview for All's Fair?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, and it looks incredible. It looks like it's going to be my favorite show. I'm sorry. It's. It's just. It looks really, really good. Especially that part where Sarah Paulson is impersonating Kim Kardashian.

[Lauren Garrone]

The rivalry I didn't know I needed in my life. Before we move on from this topic, I have to know, what colorway did you exactly get of the mercanthong?

[Chelsea Fairless]

The lighter skin with the. Yeah, the darker. Like, it's like a dark brown. Okay, I'll report back. I'll let you know. I don't know. I see a lot of outrage about this. Obviously, I don't see a downside to skims releasing a product like this because they've already cornered the market with everyday basics. Right? Like, we already go there for bras and panties shit that we would have previously gone to Victoria's Secret for or a company like that. Why shouldn't they do these weird products that are a bit more conceptual? Clearly, it's working from a rage bait Standpoint.

[Lauren Garrone]

And also, you don't need to buy it, because unfortunately, we will buy it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. If it's not for you, it's for someone. And that someone is me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, do we want to discuss the fact that there's a new designer at.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fendi and it's Maria Grazio Churi?

[Wix AI Advertiser]

Why?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Can I never. No, that is. I think that is how you say her name.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Maria Grazia Churi.

[Lauren Garrone]

She is not their creative director, but their chief creative officer, whatever that means.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think that's the same thing. We have this in bad news, but I think it's actually good news. I'm not a big Fendi person. I respect the baguette, of course, but she had a hand in designing that when she worked at Fendi. She worked there for a decade, mostly in the 90s. This makes a lot of sense. And even though we don't love her, she did make a shitload of money for Dior. I'm sure she can do that for Fendi. And again, it's just, like, not a brand that I'm super invested in. So for me, it's like, sure, why not?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. It is unfortunate that a female designer was unseated at Dior, and we're also unhappy at her appointment at another major fashion house. But, like, you know, we don't.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's not the only female designer, though. She's just the most successful one presently.

[Lauren Garrone]

Who is at a larger label. Not if we're like her own label.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Well, actually, no, I take that back. It's Musha Prada. But still, she's in an elite class.

[Lauren Garrone]

But that's also her own label. You know what, Chelsea? It doesn't even matter, because even if we do like the Fendi that Maria Grazia what's her name ends up designing, we can't afford it. Have you seen how much luxury fashion costs these days?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. The Versace thing is so depressing to me. Not that I was going to buy the Dario Vitale Versace full price anyway. But these are, like, Chanel prices. $13,000 for a pair of shorts.

[Lauren Garrone]

So you should say that the new Dario Vitale collection is available to purchase, or I guess pre order on moda operandi currently.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So we know how much everything is. $10,000 for a bra top, $14,000 for a pair of elbow gloves.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know what's going on in luxury fashion right now, but everything has tripled. As you know, my mother is a Armani customer from time to time, and I was over at her house. And she had the new lookbook. And I gasped at the prices of some of these things. A Velvet jacket for $6,900. A pair of velvet trousers with maybe an expensive applique. No, just with darts. That's $3,195. What are we doing here?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, it's so crazy. The weird thing, though, with Versace, it's like the bags and the shoes are like, kind of normal. $3,000 for a bag, $1,500 for a pair of shoes, which is obscene, but certainly in line with other brands. But it's like they're ready to wear. They've lost their minds.

[Lauren Garrone]

But I think that this is across the board. Again, I'm not exactly sure what is going on, but it is very clear that the price of ready to wear has increased, which we started to see with Alessandro Michelli's Valentino collection. But I think we wrote that off as, like, it's very ornate, it's very specialized.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Versace has basically doubled overnight, which is a choice. The cheapest thing is actually those, like, tank tops that are, like, very, like south beach, you know, they're like, cut in on the sides. I don't even know how to describe that.

[Lauren Garrone]

And that's an economical $800, I'm assuming.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly, exactly. But I feel like that is, like, the major piece from the collection. Like, that's one of the recognizable things. So I feel like that would be a worthwhile investment if you were the kind of person that could wear such a garment. I don't know who that person is, but as you know, I've had a rough week. However, things are looking up because this episode is sponsored by the RealReal. The RealReal is my favorite place to shop for authenticated luxury clothing, handbags, jewelry, and so much more. Lauren, you know this, don't I?

[Lauren Garrone]

Chelsea's hyper fixation is the real, real. So what have you been buying lately?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I haven't been doing a lot of buying, but I have been doing a lot of watching on the RealReal. I've been looking for basic, versatile suits from the 80s and 90s. I've been looking for the perfect pair of Versace Medusa earrings. And what I like to do is favorite a bunch of stuff. Those favorites then go into your Obsession section, and then I check my Obsession section, because the longer that something is on the RealReal, the lower the price drops. And that's how I've gotten some of my most insane pieces.

[Lauren Garrone]

But the downside of the Obsession section is that sometimes people buy things that You've been watching and and you instantly regret not buying them. Like Chelsea, there was the most insane Paco Rabanne high neck top, long sleeve with floral print all over it. It was like $100 and I didn't buy it and it got snatched from me. And that piece has never reappeared on the RealReal since.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, you can favorite it. So if anyone lists it again, you will get notified. Which I appreciate about the RealReal.

[Lauren Garrone]

And let me tell you, that has also happened to me where I didn't buy an item, someone else bought it, but then they returned it. And let me tell you, I immediately.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Pressed by things that truly haunt me. Most recently, there was a Yves Saint Laurent designed by Tom Ford deer print caftan from whatever that collection was back in the day in the early 2000s with all the animal prints. It was expensive. But truly not buying. This is like the dumbest thing I've ever done in my life. Anyway, I have to live with my choices and you have to do the call to action.

[Lauren Garrone]

The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. With thousands of new arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal. And now get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com outfit. That's therealreal.com outfit. To get $25 off. Start shopping now and make Chelsea proud at therealreal.com outfit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Surely they're really hot.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's not us, which is why we shop on the RealReal. Chelsea, there can't possibly be more bad news.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There's more bad news. Wendy Williams is still in that conservatorship. A couple weeks ago, New York magazine published a cover story written by Jessica Bennett, which is the most comprehensive account of the Wendy Williams saga to date. And kudos to this woman because as a commenter pointed out in the comment section of this article, there are no reliable narrators in the Wendy Williams story, and that includes Wendy Williams herself.

[Lauren Garrone]

We discussed that very dark Lifetime docu series last year, which is discussed in this piece. But I guess at the beginning of the article, I had some hope that maybe things were going to get better for Wendy. But with the introduction of every new person in Wendy's life, it just gets worse and worse. Right. You have her guardian, Sabrina Morrissey, who has been keeping information from Wendy's family. They believe that she is not keeping Wendy safe. She's being paid a lot of money. And also Wendy Williams has to pay for her lawyer. Yeah, her guardian's Lawyer who is on.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A $10,000 a month retainer and the Guardian receives between $250 and $450 an hour for her services. We don't really know how often she is used, but this lawyer thing saying is batshit.

[Lauren Garrone]

It can't be that often because the person writing the article couldn't even reach her at times. And also, Wende is now at a full time memory care unit in Manhattan. I am someone who has spent their fair share of time in memory care units. Both my grandmothers had and have dementia, and if you can afford it, it is the best place for someone with dementia to be. However, if you do not have dementia, I cannot think of a worse punishment than being in a memory care unit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And Wendy may have alcohol related dementia, but she seems pretty fucking with it and lucid a lot of the time. It doesn't seem that progress. And even if it is, she has the right to stay in her apartment with a nurse. She shouldn't have to be forced to be in a dementia ward that she doesn't want to be in. They sold her apartment, they fucking rehomed her cats. Which is like the most sinister thing I can imagine, which she didn't even.

[Lauren Garrone]

Know about until she did that Charlemagne interview.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She also didn't know that she was spending $25,800 a month to be in the the dementia ward or whatever the fuck she thought she was paying like $18,000. And I guess she only found out through reading this article. It's just so sick and sad, and it makes me really sad that it feels like so many people around her are trying to exploit her. But I did appreciate the fact that this article gave me clarity about how the conservatorship started, because we had known from the Lifetime series that it was her bank that sort of sounded the alarm on this Wells Fargo. Yes, her bank had reported to the authorities that she was being exploited. And now we kind of know why. Because what happened is that she went into the Wells Fargo with her son, she was out of it as fuck, and he was asking to be granted his mother's power of attorney. He was trying to withdraw money from her account. And they were like, this woman is obviously not well and cannot consent to any of this. And they tried to do it twice. So the second time that happened is when they contacted the authorities, which a bank should be reporting stuff like that, but just because they do it doesn't mean this woman should have all of her money and her freedom taken away from her.

[Lauren Garrone]

The article also goes into how dangerous and predatory guardianships can be. Because, as Nina Cohn says, who's a legal scholar who specializes in this system, she says you may enter the arrangement voluntarily, but you cannot leave it of your own free will. So you can say, okay, I need some help. But then you also can't give consent to be like, actually, I'm okay now, which is terrifying. This legal scholar says that most people who are subjected to guardianship never have it terminated.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And another sinister detail in this article was Jessica Bennett wrote that no one in her family has taken legal action to end the guardianship. The only person that has is her ex husband, who has a financial interest in doing this because he stopped receiving alimony after she entered into the conservatorship.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, that's what I was saying before is like, as you're introduced to every person in Wendy's life, you're like, well, maybe they'll help. Wendy, her publicist, who we saw in that Lifetime docu series, and her.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She was a real psycho who I.

[Lauren Garrone]

Guess is still in her life. Her former manager, who I think is. Was her jeweler, as we saw, Will Selby. They both asked Jessica Bennett if they were willing to pay them for an interview with William. So you're like, okay, so those people are no help. And then you're right. They introduce her ex husband back into the narrative, and you're like, okay. You know, they went through a lot of maybe he'll help her. And then, yes, you learn that he has stopped receiving $37,000 a month in alimony payments, and he has launched a lawsuit on Wendy's behalf and also on his behalf, asking for $250 million in damages.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Disgusting.

[Lauren Garrone]

Where this New York magazine article fills in from where that Lifetime documentary ended was there was this sense of hope at the end of that docu series, as dark as it was, that her family was gonna step in, her niece, her sister, to help with things. And in the years since that has aired, as Jessica Bennett reports, they're mia.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, like, they're complaining about the fact that they haven't heard from Wende for months on end because she's, like, not allowed to receive calls or something like that. But they're not doing anything legally to extract her from this horrifying situation.

[Lauren Garrone]

Williams herself has asked to be released from this guardianship. And there's a part in the article where it's detailed that the judge said that Wendy was very direct, but that it was clear that her aphasia had worsened over the past two years because at A certain point, Wendy Williams was like, I want to give my family this amount of money. And it was more money than Wendy even had. It doesn't detail what the figure is.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

She is clearly still not of her right mind.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It seems like she goes in and out, though, because even just, like, stuff that she said to Jessica Bennet, I'm like, that sounds like the old Wendy. Like, when Wendy was like, talking shit about Williamsburg, where Jessica Bennett lives, she's like, I hate it there. I'm like, that's her. That's the bitch. We know she tells it to you straight. She does not pack punches. And she's both intentionally and unintentionally hilarious, which is why we're so obsessed with her.

[Lauren Garrone]

In the article, they talked to one of the executive producers of that Lifetime show, Mark Ford. And I was wondering, like, why did they keep filming? And I think we even discussed that. And this executive producer makes the point that he said at a certain point we were more worried about what would happen if we stopped filming. And he talks about how the crew would show up. And Wendy was alone in her apartment. They were scared she was going to fall down the stairs. And she was frequently without food in the house.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So what the fuck is her guardian doing?

[Lauren Garrone]

Collecting checks? It seems.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It seems like she needed some better in home care. She didn't need to be locked up. She needs to be in that apartment with her giant Chanel pillows and her Versace robes and shit. Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

This memory care floor of this, I assume it is a retirement community. Usually, usually these places have a memory care floor. It's called Coterie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Which is the fancy diaper company.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. Which is the name of the fancy diapers that we use for Morty.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Unrelated.

[Lauren Garrone]

Not related at all. At least I don't think if you're spending $25,000 a month you can afford in home care.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She needs a nurse to, like, take care of her and someone to, like, not let her get, like, deliveries of vodka to the house from bevmo. Anyway, love Wendy. I continue to pray for Wendy. It's. This whole situation is just so fucking sad to me.

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[Lauren Garrone]

We can't possibly have any more bad news. Things to discuss, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, that's it.

[Lauren Garrone]

I hope all of our listeners are in a good mental state because we spent the majority of this episode talking about horrible things.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Shall we move on to the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show?

[Lauren Garrone]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So this was the first time they've done a fashion show since their cancellation and since their more inclusive rebrand. Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

Didn't they do one last year? Am I making this up?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't remember them doing one last year.

[Lauren Garrone]

Victoria's Secret Fashion Show, 2024.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, shit.

[Lauren Garrone]

October 15, 2024. Chelsea. A year ago. How could you have forgotten?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Did we cover it? I don't think we did. No. We must not have known about it. Okay, well, then they did a better job with their PR this year because we did not know about the show last year. And now I'm back.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's the second. First Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They did something a little different this time because usually with the Victoria's Secret Fashion show, we get a whole sort of BTS part in the beginning about all the models and. And a lot of them, you know, oh, it's their first show or whatever. We kind of get a look behind the curtain this time. They started the show with a red carpet situation that was hosted by Law Roach and Zada Rassi. There were some pretty. Pretty great people on the red carpet, I have to say.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, first and foremost, Amy Sedaris.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Amy Sedaris and Pink Comme des garcon. Perfect.

[Lauren Garrone]

We should say that the reason Amy Sedaris was there, not someone you would normally think attending a Victoria's Secret Fashion show, is because her friend Adam Selman is now the designer, or at least the creative mind behind the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Amy Sedaris is obviously super close with Sarah Jessica Parker. So she also roped her into coming that part when Law Roach was like, what are you wearing?

[Lauren Garrone]

We should just put in the clip.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm not wearing anything. It's nothing. It's nothing. It's really nothing. It's Just pieces I've had in my closet forever. I will fade away down they're my old shoes when I had a shoe company.

[Lauren Garrone]

SAP Shoes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What's the jacket? I feel like I'm not supposed to say this, really. It's a Dolce Gabbana jacket. Jacket. And this is a Alexander Wang dress. Okay. And you can see Sarah Jessica Parker look to her publicist when he's asking this. I don't think she didn't want to name these designers solely because they've both been canceled recently. But I think it also stemmed from a place of, like, oh, I dressed myself. Like, I wasn't here to promote these brands necessarily. Like, she obviously didn't have a stylist for this. She just grabbed some shit from her own closet.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which makes you wonder why she chose to walk the red carpet and participate.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In interviews, because she definitely did get, like, her glam done. It's not as if she came just fresh from the streets of the West Village.

[Lauren Garrone]

She looks incredible. For those who have not seen the clip and just heard it a couple of seconds ago, her shoes from her collection. I'm sorry. They are the patent leather Mary Janes as seen in the episode of Vogue. Idea. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But I did feel bad for her being railroaded by Law Roach like that because she was like, I actually don't want to talk about these clothes at all.

[Lauren Garrone]

Honestly, Law Roach might be the next Joan Rivers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know, babe. Like, I think he's highly charismatic, and I love, like, what he's doing on Project Runway. But the fact that he wasn't using a teleprompter was really weird to me because he was just reading the questions off of the cards. Like, wasn't having a conversation, was kind of not looking at them when they were talking to them, then talking over, like, it was just, like, it was a little weird to me.

[Lauren Garrone]

I just mean he got the tea from Sarah Diskin Parker.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He did. He did. And I also really liked the conversation that he had with India Moore where they were talking about Victoria's Secret, and she was talking about how shopping there as a teenager was, like, gender confirming for her. And he was talking about how it, like, gives sort of working class people the perception that they're buying into a luxury brand. I was like, not him calling Victoria's Secret, like, on their show and show. I was like, that's so fun and shady, but so true. It is the perception of luxury. Like, I remember looking at those lotions and body sprays and stuff. Like, it was like, I Don't know, like, it was Chanel or something.

[Lauren Garrone]

There's something about your introduction to Victoria's Secret, being in a mall, being probably an adolescent or a teenager. And yes, it felt so grown up.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. I also was dying that they were asking multiple people. When you think of Victoria's Secret, what words come to mind? And I was like, oh, my God, if someone asked me that, I would be, like, slutty middle school mall supermodel. Like, if you were actually honest.

[Lauren Garrone]

Lex Wexner and Jeffrey Epstein. I don't know. Those are the two names that come to mind when I think of Victoria City.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But it, like, forced people to have to be, like, confident, like, in, like, have to like that. Like, that's the sort of nightmare question to be asked, like, live. Although I will say, it's so nice to see Zayna Rassi. I always like her, and she always, I think, has been good on these fashion police type shows over the years.

[Lauren Garrone]

I could use more of those two on the red carpet, for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, when they brought out, like, Adam Sellman, and I was like, who is this woman? Because I know she's not designing this collection. It was like, Adam Sellman and this chick named Hilary. Super. Who is the CEO, the new woman CEO of Victoria's Secret.

[Lauren Garrone]

We're back, and we're more body positive than ever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I'm a woman and he's a gay man, and we've hired some trans women to be in the show, so.

[Lauren Garrone]

You can't cancel us. And we brought the wings back, like everyone asked.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Shall we get into the fashion show?

[Lauren Garrone]

Absolutely.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I do think from a fashion standpoint, it has improved. I'm not saying I like every single look, but I think that there are some good ones. I also loved the little introductory video that was shot by Torso. That was so good.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's definitely gotten cooler. It's kind of the best of both worlds because it feels like an old Victoria's Secret fashion show, including bringing back some of the OG models, certainly from the 2000s, like an Adriana Lima who looks insane.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I mean that in a positive way.

[Lauren Garrone]

Bella Hadid was also there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Bella got that Kim Cattrall Golden Globe spray tan.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, it was curious to see Bella Hadid there, only for the fact that, like, it seems like she's just spent the last month hospital, and then she.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Did Paris Fashion Week, and now she's done the Victoria's Secret show. But, like, her wings were really heavy. They were, like £50, apparently. And I can imagine, like, that would be quite hard to Balance. If you're an extremely thin person, as she is.

[Lauren Garrone]

With chronic lime.

[Chelsea Fairless]

With chronic lime. This bitch, like hopped off of her deathbed to model in this show. I'm like, maybe she needed those lighter, like, chiffon wings. That just, just seemed like less of a thing. I. I thought she was going to lose her life just walking up and down that Runway. Also, did you notice that one model that fell? No, there was one girl that fell. I forget who it was. But the craziest thing about it is that the song that was playing was One Thing by Amerie. So the song is like, it's just this one thing that's got me tripping. And then she literally is like, literally tripping.

[Lauren Garrone]

Maybe she went method. Maybe that was on purpose. Chelsea. You ever think about that?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was so perfect. Campy fashion roadkill. I loved it. I also have never seen Madison Beer perform before, so that was a cultural experience for me.

[Lauren Garrone]

At first I thought she was one of the Victoria's Secret models.

[Chelsea Fairless]

In terms of vibes, she's perfect for Victoria's Secret.

[Lauren Garrone]

What was your favorite segment? Cause that's what I always love about the Victoria's Secret fashion show is the different segments, moods. I personally like the red segment.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I like the red segment too. I liked that one part where things felt a little more 60s. Like there was kind of like a fake Paco Rabanne dress that was made out of like Victoria's Secret logos. I also liked that sort of take on Tom Ford Gucci where it was like a low sort of cowl back dress with like an exposed jean string.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, you mean the outfit that Emelia Gray was. Was modeling?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, that was Amelia Gray. Yeah. I couldn't really see her face. The way they shot. That was kind of weird.

[Lauren Garrone]

I did enjoy at the end when all the models came out at the same time. That felt very fun.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. The Victoria's Secret fashion show to me is always fun. It's always worth watching. It's always campy. Like, it's consistent throughout my life.

[Lauren Garrone]

Except those few years where it wasn't allowed to happen. Well, now there's the promise that Law Roach might bully a celebrity into admitting that they're wearing a ones canceled designer, which is always exciting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the red carpet felt dangerous, which I appreciate. That's a very Joan quality.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, did we miss the Joan Rivers auction?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think we did. I don't even wanna look. Cause it's like, you never know with those Julian's auctions. Cause sometimes there are things that randomly sell for like $200. And you're like, why did I not not try to bid on that? But I think that with the popularity of hacks, a lot of gay men would be clamoring for those, like, needlepoint pillows with funny little sayings. Or did Those sell for $200? And if they did, I'm gonna unalive myself.

[Lauren Garrone]

We did miss the auction. I do wanna find the item that we thought about bidding on just to see how much it went for. I thought about bidding on the Joan Rivers archive of 1980s greeting cards. The estimate was that it would go for 200 to 300. It's. It sold for $768.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. We wouldn't have bought anything or we would have. Wouldn't have won.

[Lauren Garrone]

The thing that we were going to bid on that had zero bids was that promotional E photo of Joan and Melissa live on the red carpet, Chelsea. It sold for $384.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, that's. That was a mistake.

[Lauren Garrone]

We should have bought that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, who knows how much they would have gone up to? But if someone knocked on my door and was like, would you like to buy this for $380? The answer is. Is yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, it certainly would have been a better purchase than this Erewhon smoothie. What was the other thing we thought of bidding on?

[Chelsea Fairless]

See? Don't even tell me. I don't want to know. This is why. I don't want to know. This is why. Now I'm upset. Shall we talk about the Victoria Beckham, Doc?

[Lauren Garrone]

Absolutely. But before we do, can I just tell you that one of Joan's wigs sold for $5,760?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm happy for whoever bought that. Also, did you see. Wait, actually, I want to know. How much did the ashes of her dead dog go for?

[Lauren Garrone]

I will find that. No, this was the thing that we were gonna buy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Chell, the wardrobe, Polaroids. How much did they go for?

[Lauren Garrone]

$2,240.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, that I feel fine about. Cause, like, we wouldn't have bought that. But the poster I'm now quite upset about, and I'm curious about the state of the dog's ashes, because I was shocked to see an urn of her dog's ashes. I'm like, how is that being sold? Like, that would be something that I would think Melissa would just keep or just give to a thrift store or something.

[Lauren Garrone]

I can't find that. I wonder if they pulled it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It should be against the law to sell remains of anything.

[Lauren Garrone]

However, the dog's collar and ID Tags with mementos and magazines related to his existence sold for $1900. One of his X rays sold for $576. I imagine most of this stuff going straight to Palm Springs. Just older gays who have retired in Palm Springs.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Julian's truck just drives straight to Palm Springs.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right. The Victoria Beckham documentary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's no unzipped, but I enjoyed watching it.

[Lauren Garrone]

I would watch five more hours of it. I would say that I did not enjoy it as much as the David Beckham documentary.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No one did.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm wondering if it was because the David Beckham documentary, I didn't know much about him other than what I saw on the tabloid, so it just felt just very illuminating. And also, she was a great supporting character in his documentary that made people be like, we want to know more about Victoria. I don't know if it's because I won't speak for you, but I'm such a Spice Girls fan. And specifically Victoria Beckham for Halloween When I was 10, I was posh Spice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, we gotta see the pics.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, we'll put it in the Patreon. There's just some things that were factually wrong, chronologically wrong.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, like what?

[Lauren Garrone]

There's that moment where she's talking about being in the Spice Girls, and she's like. And then one day it was all over, and then the title card says 1998. I'm like, that's not when the Spice Girls ended.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. And she also didn't acknowledge the album that they recorded without Jerry, which was a whole ass thing. And she also didn't acknowledge her solo album really? At all.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I mean, other than it was a mistake and I didn't know what I was doing.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but still, she recorded a whole ass album and multiple music videos. Yeah, it was a flop. But, like, I would be more interested in seeing her talk about that than to sort of quickly sweep it under the rug, which is what happened.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's how I feel about this documentary. For the fact that it is. Is three hours long. It's three episodes. It doesn't really get that deep into anything. Spice Girls, her solo career, really what made her want to get into fashion.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right. With the Spice Girls. I understand, because she is the one who is holding out on the reunion tour, which everyone else would do, obviously. And so I feel like she then can't do that. And also, like, like, spill the tea about them in her Netflix documentary, you know, because, yeah, of course we want to hear about what led to Jerry leaving. What did you think About Jerry and scary fucking. Tell me a little more about your eating disorder. And also Mel C's, you know what I mean? Like, these are the sort of, like, things that we are curious about.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's a documentary that all of the juiciest parts are in the trailer. To your point, she acknowledges what was very plain to see for a long time and maybe still so that she has disordered eating issues. Let's say what I wanted to see was, you know, that instead of having birthday cakes, she just has a watermelon with candles in it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God.

[Lauren Garrone]

I wanted to see a scene with that. But she acknowledges, I mean, that would.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Have been really sad if we had.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, she's very, very tiny. That's the other thing. When you see archival footage of her where it's like, wow, you are a woman who's only gotten tinier and tinier as the years have gone on, and you've had more and more children somehow.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, we didn't hear anything about the estrangement with her son.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, that I was not expecting. It felt like it was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We just get her other daughter, who doesn't know what Harper's Bazaar is.

[Lauren Garrone]

Open the schools, as they say. This documentary touches on a lot of things that it does not go further on, which you get the impression that at the time where David's career was really kicking up and when they moved to Spain and she had two more children in that time period that she clearly was suffering from, I would assume some kind of postpartum depression, anxiety exacerbated by all of. Of the press attention. And, like, there's a little hint of that. And then she was like. But then I got into being a wag, and I loved it. And I love taking photos.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I want to hear about her getting those implants and then having them removed. Like, the footage of her in the front row of that Marc Jacobs show, I almost, like, forgot about that version of her where she was, like, in the Herve Leger bandage dress and, like, with these huge tits and just, like, so tan.

[Lauren Garrone]

And also somehow the, like, fashion version of the can I talk to a manager Haircut.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I need to speak with the manager again.

[Lauren Garrone]

My mom brain.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I did find that part where she was talking about the Marc Jacobs campaign to be fascinating, about how she didn't realize that she was the butt of the joke until she saw the photos, which is true and not true. Like, it definitely, definitely supposed to look like a fashion victim. Like, just in the styling and how flamboyant the clothing that she was wearing was. But at the same time, I don't know, I do think it was a glow up for her.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, that was a curious part of the documentary because I don't know if she was the butt of the joke as much as she didn't like the fact that she just looked really ugly and unattractive in the photos in her mind.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think it was more the combination of like a spray tan that extreme combined with the flash from a Jurgen Teller. Like that is going to read very differently in photographs than it may look in person.

[Lauren Garrone]

For sure. I also had no idea she recreated that photo shoot for her own brand, did you?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I did know that, yes. I remember that.

[Lauren Garrone]

So for those who haven't seen the documentary, the structure of it is we learn about Victoria's life from when she was born to up until this very moment. And it's juxtaposed between Victoria Beckham, the label's biggest fashion show that's happening outside of Paris.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Will the show happen? Will it rain? Will it not rain? Will that skirt ever fit a model?

[Lauren Garrone]

By the way, that skirt with. It's a see through skirt with very exaggerated boning around the hips. It's like that's never making it to stores. There are several moments in this documentary during the lead up to the fashion show where I felt like Anne Hathaway in a Devil Wears Prada where I'm like, guys, it's not this serious.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was fascinating seeing Jane Howe work. She styled the fashion show. She's someone whose work that I've admired for a really long time, but obviously I would never have any sense of her personality or how she works through still photographs. So I think that was a cool peek behind the curtain. I also love the part where Victoria was anxious about having to speak with an unnamed mean fashion journalist.

[Lauren Garrone]

Who do we think it was?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Probably Cathy Horne. Could be Susie Menkes, but I feel like she's more of a podcaster now. But I don't know my other issue.

[Lauren Garrone]

With this fashion show. And to your point about. Well, it's no unzipped, like I was thinking about it, this documentary does give us a great insight into what goes into a fashion show. Like seeing her atelier in London get moved to Paris in the trucks. That was all very fascinating to see. But the production brain that I have, right, the big thing is like, is it gonna rain? Is it not gonna rain? It's okay if it rains. Even though the fashion show's outside because we've got this tent now. No one thought to maybe have the same kind of tenting material between the house where all the malls are getting ready and the tent where the fashion show's happening?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I know. Also, was I the only person that was like, I don't know if the venue's worth it. You're gonna make everyone go outside of Paris or outside of the city center to go here, Which, I mean, sure, it's okay, but, like, didn't seem that fab. Not like Versailles or something, you know?

[Lauren Garrone]

One of my favorite moments in the documentary is when Anna Wintour gets there and she just goes, it doesn't look like you guys are ready. True.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And it was interesting to see Anna talk about Victoria Beckham, and she's, you know, transparent about the fact that she doesn't really take celebrity fashion designers seriously. And there were a lot of them. When Victoria started out, there was Gwen Stefani's lamb line.

[Lauren Garrone]

Who could forget about Lindsay Lohan's turn as the designer for Ungaro?

[Chelsea Fairless]

And as I remember, she had some separate leggings label as well. There were a lot of brands like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

It was also the early days of the row. They also had that diffusion line, which was. It was named James and Elizabeth. Elizabeth and James Elizabeth.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And. Yeah, I forgot about that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Named after their siblings.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But Victoria has stood the test of.

[Lauren Garrone]

Time, it turns out. If you just stay long enough and have enough cash infusions and also launch a really good beauty product line, which AFGHA gifted us when we were in London.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, the makeup is great. And I've heard she has some foundation drops coming out that are really fab. Ooh. Yeah. As a fashion designer, I can't say that I've ever been obsessed with Victoria Beckham, but I respect what she does. They're certainly a customer for what she does. She knows how to make a flattery dress. I like that. They acknowledged the comparisons with Roland Mouret, who was also interviewed for the documentary.

[Lauren Garrone]

He was a mentor to her when she was initially launching her line. A lot of her dresses initially looked like what Roland Marae was doing at the time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, because he made a very, very specific dress, which was called the galaxy dress, which was a fitted cocktail dress with a nipped waist and a sweetheart neckline and a sort of, like, slightly peaked cap sleeve. It was like a 1930s type silhouette, but done in a very early 2000s way with this very specific kind of.

[Lauren Garrone]

Draping and a dress that Victoria Beckham wore a bunch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She wore this dress many times. And, yeah, I went back to early Victoria Beckham and I found the collection that people must have been talking about because yeah, the first look was a dress that looked like that. It's not surprising that people would draw that parallel, especially given how much she wore the dress.

[Lauren Garrone]

Guess herself and that he helped her. The other thing that I was a little disappointed about, given the length of this documentary is and its subject matter, it doesn't really chart the change she made as a designer from those very Roland Beret looking dresses to where we are now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So true.

[Lauren Garrone]

Instead we got guys. This is why I don't smile, because David makes me take photos on this side. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It would have been cool if she was like, look, Rollin Mou Ray wasn't designing those collections necessarily, but I was obviously inspired by them and I'm glad I found my voice or something.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm ready for part two, which gets into why she didn't design her daughter in law's wedding dress, why she no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Longer speaks to her son and chronicles her return to the Spice Girls after a long hiatus.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know. I mean, in the documentary, I forgot that there was a reunion tour in. Was it 2008 or 2010?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Me too.

[Lauren Garrone]

I always remember that they did reunite when the Olympics happened in 2012 in London for the opening night ceremony. They reunited and they were all on a double decker bus arriving at the same time. I remember.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it was so good.

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[Lauren Garrone]

You know, who needs to end up in the sphere? Cause I get it. I don't want to go on a nationwide. The sphere. You know who Lauren can't talk. You know who should go into the sphere? Spice Girls.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Absolutely. Because like we don't need them to do that much. Just the bare minimum of choreo.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also, I understand, I would imagine part of Victoria Beckham's reluctance to do a reunion tour is the fact that you would have to go from city to city, country to country. Just go to one place.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Just go to one place for a few months.

[Lauren Garrone]

We'll come to you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You can fly back on your PJ to Montecito or wherever the. You live in la.

[Lauren Garrone]

I believe they've moved full time to London.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. But they still probably have something out there, I would think. I agree. I think that would be perfect for them. Although sucks for British people who are the core of their fandom and do not live anywhere close to Las Vegas, Nevada. But it's like, do some shows in London and then do some shows in this fear.

[Lauren Garrone]

Brits love Vegas.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Until that day.

[Chelsea Fairless]

All right. Oh, my God. Are we still talking?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. We still have to talk about one battle after another for no other reason than I got a babysitter and went to a 10am screening at the Vista Theater. And I gotta tell you, Chelsea wasn't empty. Was pretty full.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So you saw it as Paul Thomas Anderson intended it to be seen in VistaVision?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I saw it at an IMAX theater at amc, so. Sucks for me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, it does suck for you because you would have appreciated. In the lobby of the Vista Theater, there were props from the film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Cute.

[Lauren Garrone]

Including Leonardo DiCaprio's, like, cataract glasses that he wears in the film. Not his bathrobe. They're not on that arc light shit. Remember in the lobby they used to show you costumes?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And they still do that at the AMC at the Century City Mall and at the Grove. Anywho, what did you think?

[Lauren Garrone]

I loved it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I loved it, too.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't think it unseats Phantom, Thread or Magnolia, but, like, no solid number three.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is it better than Boogie Nights, though? I don't know about that. Don't know. No, don't agree with that. But I loved it. It draws you in from the jump. It's original in its tone, certainly features pregnant Teyana Taylor with a machine gun.

[Lauren Garrone]

What more can you ask for? I know it may be reductive to give an elevator pitch of what this movie is like using two other movies, but I was not expecting how much this movie, to me, was like the big Lebowski meets Dr. Strangelove.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Yes, I can see that. Because, yeah, Leonardo DiCaprio is this deadbeat dad who's kind of bumbling his way through the revolution, and it truly never gets old. Like, the humor of that does not get old.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's way funnier than I was expecting, I guess we should say for people who don't know what this film is about. Leonardo DiCaprio plays a man named Bob Ferguson, a former revolutionary who on the lam with his daughter Willa, who is kidnapped and he has to go find her and reunite with his former revolutionary group, the French 75 all as Sean Penn is hunting them down. Unfortunately, I'm sad to report. I do think Sean Penn will be winning his third Oscar. Yeah, it does not feel like that man should have three Oscars.

[Chelsea Fairless]

He's an incredible actor though, and he certainly deserves it for this performance.

[Lauren Garrone]

He is a white supremacist colonel.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, what else did he win for?

[Lauren Garrone]

I thought he won for Dead Men Walking. He did not. He was nominated. His first win was for Mystic River.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oof.

[Lauren Garrone]

Then he won for Harvey Milk.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So all completely deserved. Yeah, I mean, I guess he could have not won for Mystic River. Although. Sorry again. Again, I like have. It's a movie about ptsd and it's also a movie that gives ptsd.

[Lauren Garrone]

But he is quite good as the very repugnant Colonel Lockjaw and his very bizarre walk he does throughout the entirety of the movie.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, the actress that plays the daughter, Chase Infinity, is great. We had seen her previously in that one Jake Gyllenhaal limited series where he.

[Lauren Garrone]

Was like Presumed Innocent.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, you actually remember the name. It had such an unforgettable name. But yes, Presumed Innocent, she was the murderer, I think.

[Lauren Garrone]

Ooh, spoiler alert.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If you didn't see it, you didn't see it and you don't need to see it. It's fine.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, Presumed Innocent was an Apple TV limited series that was a remake of a Harrison Ford film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which the update of the twist was. Spoiler alert. For a film from 1985. But Harrison Ford's wife killed his mistress. Because the whole thing is like, did Harrison Ford kill his mistress? And then yes, the twist of the limited series was like, did the wife kill the mistress? No, the daughter did. But yes, this is a star making role. She's incredible in the film. We should say that this is a P.T. anderson written script, but it is heavily inspired by Thomas Pynchon's novel Vineland, which was published in 1990. It is set in 1984 against the Reagan administration about former 1960s radicals. He's obviously updated it for these modern times, although there's no specific time period listed. If you think that this film, the present timeline is happening now, then the beginning of the film, which is a flashback, probably takes place around the Obama administration.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I was a little scared by that initially because Inherent Vice is not my favorite of the Paul Thomas Anderson movies, despite Joanna Newsom's fabulous performance.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I'm intrigued to get your opinion. Those who have listened to the podcast know that we have talked about the making of this film. Because they filmed in your hometown.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. But like, I was kind of like, why did they even bother doing that? Because you see so little of it at the end of the day. Like, you see one supermarket. The only scene where I think you really see, like, the redwood trees in a way that it's like, you couldn't film this elsewhere is when he's running from the feds or whatever. And he has to go down through that tunnel.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And come out. Like, where he comes out, that could be like one of my friend's parents houses or something where there's just a bunch of redwood trees and like old cars, like in someone's backyard. But yeah, it was exciting that they filmed it there, certainly. And it makes sense. Like, and it is where someone like Leonardo DiCaprio's character would go, like, if you just want to smoke weed and be in nature all the time.

[Lauren Garrone]

There was a Rolling Stone article that interviewed PT Anderson and Leonardo DiCaprio where he talked about finding the character when he did end up going up to Eureka, and he was like, oh, this is a community full of Bobs. That's his character's name. They're escaping society and what you call hip necks. Half hippie, half redneck.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Kind of true. He goes on to say that it's like there's people up there that are kind of more libertarian leaning but also more socially progressive. And I think that's true. But I also think that not wanting to pay taxes for a lot of people also stems from the sinister things that our tax money is used for. More so than like an every man for himself mentality.

[Lauren Garrone]

There was this thought going around that I saw on Twitter that stems from a letterbox review by Matt Lynch. Have you heard of this PTA theory, which is coat kid PTA versus weed dad pta, and basically everything up to There Will Be Blood when he had children is coke kid Paul Thomas Anderson. And then he gets into, like his weed dad era.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, this is a overtly weed dad film. And obviously he shares certain characteristics with this man. I'm sure he smokes weed. He's also the father of biracial children. And that was the most surprising thing about this movie to me, is that he's making a movie that is talking about politics and race in an overt way, which we've never really seen from him before.

[Lauren Garrone]

And it's also a return to contemporary things and a contemporary time period, which I feel like has been missing from a lot of our best directors, is a lot of crazy shit has gone down over the last 10, 15 years. And it seems like some of our best auteurs are like, I just want to make films set in the 70s where I don't have to look at a cell phone. And I'm happy that between this film and Eddington, our favorite and best auteurs have figured out how to make cell phones work in movies.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's very encouraging. It's not something that I expected from him, nor did I expect him to write a film which featured Jungle Pussy as herself in a major role.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. I thought of you during the bank robbery scene where she says that this is some set it off shit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. It was so good. And that's so cool because she's someone I used to see around New York a lot. I've seen her perform before. And also like the Teyana Taylor's like this pussy don't pop for you line is a jungle pussy lyric. I don't know if that's the title of the song, but it is definitely the chorus of a Jungle Pussy song. So perhaps he was listening to Jungle Pussy while he was writing this in the way that you. He was listening to Amy Mann when he was writing Magnolia.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's definitely possible. I have not heard him speak of this. So we obviously love this film. It's being heralded as a masterpiece. I think we agree with that. But, you know, there are people.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Brett Easton Ellis does not agree with that. He called it a musty relic of the post Kamala Harris era, which is very on brand for him. But I don't know. I think it's a little bit more nuanced than that because it's not like the revolutionaries are portrayed in a universally flattering light necessarily. Like Leonardo DiCaprio is like a fuck up pothead and Teyana Taylor is like a rat.

[Lauren Garrone]

Spoiler alert. But I think what bred Easone Ellis is reacting to goes into this anecdote that Paul Thomas Anderson discusses in this Rolling Stone article where he was doing a screening that Steven Spielberg was the moderator of. And Steven Spielberg was like, I was on the edge of my seat by the end of the film because I didn't know where the movie was going. Because, you know, you do a lot of twisted things in your film. So I didn't think there was gonna be a happy ending. And it's true. There is an earnestness to this movie that I think we have not seen in many Paul Thomas Anderson films. And I think there's an earnestness and an optimism, and I think that's what Brendy Sinellis is like this musty liberalism.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. He's like, this is disgusting and I hate this. But he seems like the kind of person that would be more of a phantom thread Magnolia person, I would think.

[Lauren Garrone]

As are we.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, maybe he thinks Magnolia sucks too, actually. Who knows? But then on the other side of the argument, there's also people that think the Leonardo DiCaprio character is really playing into white savior tropes and things of that nature, which. Which I can see. Although again, he's such a fuck up. You could also look at it as a critique of whiteness or of white people amidst the revolution, I suppose.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. And that Leonardo DiCaprio's character, after his child is born, he makes the choice to no longer participate in the revolution, even though the other black women are still fighting for the cause. Yeah. I would say that the backlash to this film, aside from Brady Cinelis, kind of fall in two camps. You have the right who feel that this film is sanctioning and promoting left wing radical terrorism, as Ben Shapiro discussed in his nearly 13 minute YouTube review of the film.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I must have missed that.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's not worth going into. But he sort of ends his rant with, it is better, in other words, to be a complete loser who wastes your life bombing things randomly in order to free illegal immigrants, to run willy nilly a crime across the border, than to be a productive citizen. And I don't know, I think of Ben Shapiro, a failed screenwriter, by the way, doesn't like your film, you're doing something right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

If Ben Shapiro is even talking about your film, you're doing something right.

[Lauren Garrone]

Ben Shapiro paid 16 to $24 depending on what theater in Nashville he went to to see the movie. And then the other camp is people who feel that this film doesn't have the best racial politics. Politics, let's say, especially concerning P.T. anderson's portrayal of black women who seem more like stereotypes. Namely the Teyana Taylor character being portrayed as the racist Jezebel stereotype, an overly lascivious woman.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, yeah, it is a highly sexualized character from the jump. And obviously the interactions with Sean Penn are like, ugh, you know?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. So Elaine E. Jones wrote a piece in the Guardian called Jezebel's Race Kink and Cardi B. In one battle after another, black women are starring still stereotypes, where she discusses the pussy don't pop for you moment in the film that Perfidia expresses her principal defiance of the fascistic state with the phrase this pussy don't pop for you parentheses Note to white male screenwriters, not every black woman talks like Cardi B. And even Cardi B doesn't sound like a Cardi B record all the time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, like I said, that is very much a jungle pussy thing. But I, of course, understand her point.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I will say, going into this movie, I don't think I understood how much of a main character Sean Penn would be. I mean, the main thrust of the narrative has to do with Sean Penn's character, who is a white supremacist colonel who does have a fetish for black women and uses his love of them at one point to intimidate Leonard DiCaprio. There's that scene in the grocery store where he's sizing Leonard DiCaprio up and he's like, do you like black women? I love em.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. So creepy.

[Lauren Garrone]

Brooke Auby also wrote about this in her substack, Black Girl Watching in an article, One Fetish After Another, where she notes that Anderson is not so much commenting on white male fetishization of black women, but directly participating in it in the way that his camera work objectifies Tiana Taylor. And it is a story that centers on not just one white man, but two white men. Teyana Taylor is great in the film, but she isn't in it a lot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, she can't be. That's central to the plot.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's true. And Paul Thomas Anderson talks about this in the Rolling Stone article where he looked at the perfidia Beverly Hills character and her portrayal as almost this short film with her. And he sort of phrases the idea of focusing on a guy who, quote, in any other film would be extra. Number six is the one who ends up surviving and has the golden goose. That was the fun structure to play with. So for him, the idea that what would otherwise be a background character in the narrative, Leonardo DiCaprio becomes the main character. I do think people are frustrated by the fact that he doesn't actually. None of his actions help save his daughter, which felt very Big Lebowski to me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but that was kind of cool because he ultimately wasn't the hero of this story. It was his daughter.

[Lauren Garrone]

So this is Paul Thomas Anderson's most successful film. It has grossed over $100 million, although, as Variety notes, the film would need to gross roughly 300 million to even break. Break even in movie theaters.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, this I don't get, because I'm sorry, how did it cost $175 million to make this movie? Can you explain this to me? Like, how is this more expensive than Wicked Even the big car chase at the end takes place in the middle of nowhere. And there are just like three cars.

[Lauren Garrone]

So the production budget was reported to be 130 million. I assume they paid Leonardo DiCaprio his fee, which is 20, 25 million. There this division film, and probably just time. Practical effects. There are multiple buildings that are blown.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Up practically, but they didn't even have to plant, like, miles of tulip fields like they did in Wicked. They didn't go to Oz.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm going to assume the time it took to shoot the film. I think the more important discussion to have, because I do find this is a very bad faith article of, like, what? Well, even though it's Paul Thomas Anderson's most successful film and the film is a masterpiece, it's not going to gross back its budget. And it's like, I'm sorry, Warner Brothers. That's what Minecraft is for. Minecraft made a billion dollars so that they can give Paul Thomas Anderson $130 million. I guess this is a long way of saying, I don't know why it cost $130 million. I know why he got $130 million. And it's because one of the people that run Warner Brothers is a man named Mike DeLuca. Mike DeLuca saw Hard 8, Paul Thomas Anderson's first film, and was like, here is an obscene amount of money to make an epic about porn. Mike DeLuca was the guy that greenlit Boogie Nights and then after that was like, here's even more money to go make Magnolia. So that's his boy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So this man is incredible. And we should be thanking him is what you're saying.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's what I'm saying. Thank you. Mike DeLuca and Pamela Abdy, who. They are co chairs of Warner Brothers and they're coming off of a generational run, right? Sinners, weapons, this film, Minecraft and Superman, which I guess subsidizes all the other films.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I must have missed those.

[Lauren Garrone]

And they just rejected a bid from Paramount to buy them. So we're very pro Warner Brothers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Good to know. All right, we have to stop talking. We have to shut the fuck up immediately.

[Lauren Garrone]

You're not the first person to say that about us.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I have to go back and do some more mourning, drink some more of this Ben Stiller, Shirley Temple and throw this Billy Corgan shit in the garbage bin, which seems so fucked up and wasteful. We should have just gotten one of these. We assumed they would be edible.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, I'm drinking both of ours on principle. Chelsea. I'm not letting this go to waste.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's sickening.

[Lauren Garrone]

Guys, I'm drinking both at the same time. That's what that sound was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, best of luck to you and your digestive system.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, guys, we'll be back next week.

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[Lauren Garrone]

Bye.

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