244: On Sex and the City: Pick-a-Little, Talk-a-Little

Summary

Every Outfit Podcast, Ep. 244: On Sex and the City: Pick-a-Little, Talk-a-Little

Release Date: October 24, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni

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Overview:

In this episode, Chelsea and Lauren deep-dive into the Sex and the City Season 6 episode "Pick-a-Little, Talk-a-Little"—the iconic origin of the phrase "He's just not that into you." The hosts unpack the comedic, emotional, and fashion moments, giving their signature sharp and affectionate commentary. As always, they stitch together pop culture, fashion analysis, and frank relationship advice—highlighting how certain themes, advice, and fashion crimes remain relevant today.

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Episode Structure & Key Segments

[01:14] Rewatch Introduction & Episode Context

• This episode is part of the hosts' monthly SATC rewatch series.
• Lauren notes: "We had not done much from the first part of season six, and here we are doing Pick a Little, Talk a Little episode four of season six. This, unfortunately, means Burger is Carrie's boyfriend."

[01:40] SATC Writers & “He’s Just Not That Into You”

• The episode, written by future "And Just Like That" writers, features a concept developed by a straight male consultant.
• Lauren reminds listeners: "This is the infamous he's just not that into you comes from a straight male consultant that they had on Sex and the City."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

[02:04] Roleplay Gone Wild: Samantha & Smith Jerrod

• The episode opens with Samantha engaging in a consensual, non-consent fantasy with her new actor boyfriend, later known as Smith Jerrod.
• Chelsea: "You gotta keep that mask on if we're gonna keep this fantasy up. It's like the equivalent of unmasking a golden retriever."
• On Power Dynamics: Samantha is clearly the top, flipping even "ravishment fantasies" to her control.

[04:05] Burger Joins the Group

• At a group dinner, Burger's introduction to the friend circle is highlighted as both funny and revealing.
• Lauren: “This is actually the best we've ever seen him, I think in any episode. This entire scene” ([06:27]).

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[07:13] “He’s Just Not That Into You” – The Phrase That Launched a Thousand Self-Help Books

• Miranda recounts a date, and Burger gives the blunt advice: "He's just not that into you."
• Quote:
  • Burger: "If we're into you, we're coming upstairs, we're booking the next day. There are no mixed messages." ([08:16])
• Lauren's Reflection: "This is maybe the truest, most salient advice about male female relationships. Chelsea, I watched this episode when I was 15. Did I heed this advice at all in my 20 years of dating afterwards? Absolutely not." ([08:40])
• Comparison to the TikTok phrase: “If he wanted to, he would.”
• Both hosts agree the advice applies across genders: “All genders can be affected by. He's just not that into you. They're just not that into you.” ([09:44])

Background & Cultural Impact

• The phrase originated from consultant Greg Behrendt in the SATC writers’ room and led to a bestselling self-help book and a star-studded film adaptation.
• The hosts hilariously recount the film’s ensemble cast: “Would you believe that... Jennifer Aniston's love interest is Ben Affleck... Bradley Cooper having an affair with Scarlett Johansson… Jennifer Connelly.” ([12:25])
• Pop Culture Jeopardy tangent illustrates the hosts’ deep breadth of 2000s trivia and camaraderie.

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[16:28] Fashion Police: Carrie's Mickey Mouse & Drew Barrymore Core

• Chelsea goes in on Carrie’s distracting Mickey Mouse T-shirt, calling it: “the only Carrie Bradshaw outfit that could also be worn by Ellen DeGeneres.”
• The look is described as classic early-2000s: threadbare T-shirt, vintage blazer, and leather pants evoking Drew Barrymore’s era ([17:15]).

[20:41] The Infamous “Visual Abortion” Outfit

• Carrie’s deli scene look is savaged: “It is a visual abortion.” ([20:54])
• Details: khaki puffer vest over blush shorts/romper, knee-pad tights, wedges.
• Chelsea: “Nothing would make sense about that. And nothing makes sense about this also.”

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[22:41] Burger’s Book, the Scrunchie, and Unsolicited Criticism

• Burger gifts Carrie his already-published novel. Carrie critiques that the high-powered Manhattan protagonist wears a scrunchie—prompting insecurity and argument.
• Chelsea: “What is he supposed to do about that now that the book is published?”
• This criticism marks the beginning of Burger’s emotional unraveling in the relationship.

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[30:16] Critique Dynamics: “When does constructive criticism become destructive?”

• The episode's theme: should women "just shut the fuck up" sometimes?
• Lauren: “That does not work for male partners. Like, Bill Burr has this funny bit: every once in a while a man needs an attaboy...and that's all Burger needs.” ([32:23])

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[35:39] Samantha & Smith: The Many Faces of Roleplay

• Samantha’s Fendi cobweb dress for a bar scene is declared, “truly fabulous… She looks so hot, like unbelievably hot.”
• Smith reveals, through a break in the roleplay, that he’s in AA. Samantha bails: “She was the top in this situation, who’s forcing him to have a martini but couldn’t let it go.”

[37:32] Jewish Jokes, Conversion, and The “Set the Date” Meltdown

• Charlotte is prepping for her first Shabbos dinner as an official “real Jew.” The hosts debate jokes like “Martha Jewart” and Carrie’s “you don’t have to challah,” with mixed feelings: “It feels vaguely anti-Semitic...but the writing room had a field day.”

• Charlotte, eager for commitment, plans her wedding before Harry has even proposed, leading Miranda to protest: “Aren't you counting your matzah balls before they rise?”

• Lauren: “The amount of times that these characters in long term relationships do not talk about their expectations or goals is honestly insane.”

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[44:15] Scrunchie Vindication: Urban Myths and Regional Accessories

• Carrie and Burger ask a stranger wearing a scrunchie in NYC where she’s from, only to learn: “I’m from Macon, Georgia. Oh my goodness, you made my day” ([44:46]).
• Sarah Jessica Parker’s delivery: “She ain’t from here.” ([44:32]) — a moment both hosts adore.

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[46:03] Miranda & Diarrhea: A Subversion of Dating “Rules”

• Miranda assumes her date is using “work tomorrow” as an excuse, but it turns out: “I have diarrhea.”
• Lauren: “To say, 'I have diarrhea,' means it's happening now. So, like, did it start at the restaurant?”
• The hosts praise SATC’s subversive humor.

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[47:23] Shabbos Dinner Disaster: Charlotte & Harry Explode

• Charlotte's elaborate dinner is ignored as Harry watches baseball. She blurts out, “I gave up Christ for you and you can't give up the Mets!” leading to a fight.
• Charlotte then says the quiet part out loud about their looks, which Chelsea calls “the meanest thing she's ever said.”

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[53:23] Relationship Meltdown: Burger and Carrie, the Hat, and Insecurities

• After trying to cheer up Burger, Carrie is insulted about her hat.
• Chelsea: “But of course, this is about more than just the hat. By insulting the hat, he is insulting her entire identity. Because fashion is such a huge part of who she is.”
• Break up advice is screamed at the podcast, but Carrie and Burger make up (for now).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It's like the equivalent of unmasking a golden retriever. Like Smith Jared very much gives that energy.”
  – Chelsea ([03:35])
• “If someone is into you, they will move mountains to make it work.”
  – Chelsea ([09:12])
• “I do think this is the only Carrie Bradshaw outfit that could also be worn by Ellen DeGeneres.”
  – Chelsea ([16:49])
• “It is a visual abortion.”
  – Lauren ([20:54])
• “Burger, this is not the same thing. A woman that works at W magazine on Perry street in 2003 wouldn't be wearing a scrunchie.”
  – Lauren ([55:25])
• “I gave up Christ for you. Take out the trash. I gave up Christ for you. Pick up your socks.”
  – Harry ([48:49])

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Manolos, MVPs, and Hot Takes

Rating:

• Both hosts give this episode a strong 7/10 Manolos due to the enduring nature of the “he’s just not that into you” concept, memorable fashion moments, and iconic role-play scenes.

MVP:

• Samantha, for providing comic relief and masterful commitment to the “Secret Service sluts” fantasy.

Vote-Off:

• Chelsea: Charlotte (for “calling her boyfriend ugly to his face and food waste”)
• Lauren: Burger (for being both best and worst).

Best Dressed:

• Samantha’s Fendi and Céline looks win out; Carrie’s “visual abortion” look is slammed as worst.

Who Are You?

• Lauren: Miranda.
• Chelsea: Berger (“I would spiral about that scrunchie comment as well.”).

Biggest Trigger/Hottest Take:

• Chelsea: The wedges Carrie wears, and that IRS auditor roleplay is the scariest.
• Lauren: “I don’t think Berger and Carrie should be together. I think Miranda and Berger should be.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:14: Episode/rewatch introduction
• 02:04: Samantha & Smith’s roleplay scene
• 07:13: “He’s Just Not That Into You” discussion
• 16:28: Carrie’s controversial fashion choices
• 22:41: Burger’s book & scrunchie debate
• 30:16: Criticism & relationship dynamics theme
• 35:39: Samantha’s Fendi moment and Smith’s AA confession
• 44:15: Scrunchie vindication scene
• 46:03: Miranda’s date/diarrhea reveal
• 47:23: Charlotte’s Shabbos dinner disaster
• 53:23: Carrie & Burger’s street fight

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Tone and Vibe

Chelsea and Lauren maintain their snarky, whip-smart style but balance it with genuine affection for the series’ flaws and strengths, weaving in memes, 2000s pop culture, and pointed fashion criticism. Their conversational chemistry makes even tangent detours feel like eavesdropping on two BFFs with encyclopedic pop culture recall and zero tolerance for bad hats.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode not only solidifies the pop-psychology aphorism “he’s just not that into you” but also spars with the question of when criticism in relationships is helpful or toxic. Chelsea and Lauren’s recap is a joyous, witty, and insightful tour through one of SATC’s most iconic hours—reminding listeners that sometimes the most memorable advice is the most painful, and that, for better or worse, some 2000s fashion choices should stay buried.

Transcript

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[Lauren Garrone]

What's the matter, Morty?

[Kristin]

Great gowns.

[Chelsea Fes]

Beautiful gown has changed. No, it hasn't.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[Chelsea Fes]

And I'm Chelsea Fes.

[Lauren Garrone]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast.

[Sponsor Voice]

And we are doing our monthly rewatch.

[Lauren Garrone]

Of a Sex and the City episode. Last month, I said to you, Chelsea, we had not done much from the first part of season six, and here we are doing Pick a Little, Talk a Little episode four of season six. This, unfortunately means Burger is Carrie's boyfriend.

[Chelsea Fes]

The title is a reference to a song from the Music Man.

[Lauren Garrone]

If you are not familiar, this episode is written by and just like that writers Julie Rotenberg and Eliza Zursky. However, this concept, the whole he's just not that into you. That's what this episode is. For those who do not remember, this is the infamous he's just not that into you comes from a straight male consultant that they had on Sex and the City, which we'll get into in a little bit.

[Chelsea Fes]

So this episode begins with a kind of shocking scene. We might need that Che Diaz trigger warning sound here. Trigger warning. It begins with a Carrie voiceover in New York City. It is a statistical fact that once every seven minutes, an unsuspecting woman dates an actor.

[Lauren Garrone]

And this is juxtaposed with Samantha cleaning her apartment. An armed assailant comes in and attacks her. We quickly learn that this is, of course, her boy toy, who we will come to know as Smith Jared.

[Chelsea Fes]

Okay, I don't think he's armed, but he is masked at the very least.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, the juxtaposition of the words you know you think is going to be a crime statistic. And the visuals you're seeing feel like the trailer for Death Wish.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

So are we going to call him Jerry?

[Chelsea Fes]

Let's just call him Smith Jared. He hasn't been named at this point, but it is Smith Jared.

[Lauren Garrone]

So Smith Jarrod assaults Her.

[Chelsea Fes]

I think we need to clarify that this is a fantasy roleplay situation.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, they are in a consensual, non consent role play scenario. Although, because it's Samantha, she of course needs to flip the script. And after Smith Jared tells her to shut the fuck up four times, she says, no, you shut the fuck up and fuck me.

[Chelsea Fes]

I know she's trying to, like, top her faux rapist, but Smith Jared is.

[Lauren Garrone]

So effective in this scene, it does make you wonder if any of Samantha's neighbors called the cops.

[Chelsea Fes]

I don't know how effective he is. I understand that he had to take off the mask so that the audience realizes that it is Samantha's boyfriend and not a literal rapist. But you gotta keep that mask on if we're gonna keep this fantasy up. It's like the equivalent of unmasking a golden retriever. Like Smith Jared very much gives that energy.

[Lauren Garrone]

So this is fortunately or unfortunately, how Berger is introduced to Carrie's inner circle.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, because it cuts to the girls are at some hip restaurant and Samantha's like, finally, a man that likes to fuck outside the box. And then we realize that Burger is sitting at the table with them. And it's truly one of the funniest reveals on this show.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's hard for me to believe that this is the first time in Samantha's life that she is getting into some role play.

[Chelsea Fes]

I get the vibe that she has done role play in the past, but she's just enjoying it within this relationship because she's dating an actor who's quite good at it.

[Lauren Garrone]

And so therefore, they can get into some. Some rape fantasies. Which, of course, Charlotte is understandably horrified by.

[Chelsea Fes]

Actually, Lauren, I'm pretty sure rape fantasies are now called ravishment fantasies. It's like one of those new words like unhoused.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, if we are using terms of service language, it would be grape. So it would be grape fantasies.

[Chelsea Fes]

Right, Right, of course.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or as Berger says, you know, as a guy, I've always gotten the impression that anything to do with grape or in the grape family is just not a good idea.

[Chelsea Fes]

Correct answer. New boyfriend.

[Lauren Garrone]

Samantha, of course, pushes back on Charlotte. And it's like, this is just fantasies, and fantasies can't be censored. To which Miranda says, actually, I think the Supreme Court is working on that right now. Relevant in 2003. Relevant in 2025, sadly.

[Chelsea Fes]

Oh, yeah. And this is one of the more taboo things that we've seen on Sex and the City. But a worthwhile conversation for these ladies to have.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. Which we'll get into this with Carrie's voiceover. But are we to understand that Carrie is working in her friend Samantha's ravishment roleplay into her column?

[Chelsea Fes]

God, I hope so. See, this is why New Yorkers can't stop reading that column.

[Lauren Garrone]

So Berger is like, can I go home now? Which makes all the ladies laugh. And all the ladies are charmed by Burger. Which. This is the tough thing about Burger, because in this scene he's very alluring. We've got this verbal judo between him and Carrie. It just, it does things to me. Burger later in the episode does different things to me. But.

[Chelsea Fes]

But this Burger is exceptional.

[Lauren Garrone]

Truly dateable.

[Chelsea Fes]

This is actually the best we've ever seen him, I think in any episode. This entire scene.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also we're coming off of Carrie and Burger have just gotten their sexual mojo right.

[Chelsea Fes]

Thank God. Although I still kind of don't believe that they actually did. But whatever.

[Lauren Garrone]

So before we move on to the rest of the scene, can we just discuss the other roleplay that Samantha and Smith Jarrett do? Of course, sometimes he's Senator Smith or Principal Smith. Cellmate Smith.

[Chelsea Fes]

What kind of co ed prison are we talking about?

[Lauren Garrone]

Or is Samantha the nurse in the prison? Is she like Patricia Arquette in Escape from Dannemora?

[Chelsea Fes]

God, I hope so. To invoke one of Ben Stiller's other prolific projects in recent years.

[Lauren Garrone]

That was an oversight to have not mentioned that last week. So Samantha gets a call from Smith Jarrod. I forget if he's a financial advisor this time or what role play he's. He's call falling about. But Samantha excuses herself and then Miranda gets into the date that she went on and she asked for Burger's advice about the date. And this is where we get he's just not that into you.

[Commercial Voice]

All right, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it for you. He's just not that into you.

[Kristin]

That's not true.

[Narrator]

Don't listen to him.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, no, no, I'm. I'm intrigued. Elaborate.

[Commercial Voice]

Look, I'm sorry, but when a guy's really into you, he's coming upstairs meeting or no meeting.

[Narrator]

Oh, that is ludicrous. What about extenuating circumstances? What about you're stressed out, you're on deadline, you have a migraine.

[Kristin]

Or a lot of guys are afraid of getting their feelings hurt and they don't want to ruin a friendship or.

[Lauren Garrone]

They'Re freaked out by their own feelings. There's a lot of push pull out there, a lot of mixed messages.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah, I'd have to say that's all Code for he's just not that in here. I'm sorry, but with guys, it's very simple. If we're India, we're coming upstairs, we're booking the next day. There are no mixed messages.

[Kristin]

No mixed messages.

[Lauren Garrone]

But I've spent my whole life deciphering mixed messages.

[Narrator]

I've made a whole career of it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wow. He's just not that into me.

[Chelsea Fes]

Agree or disagree?

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, absolutely agree. This is maybe the truest, most salient advice about male female relationships. Chelsea, I watched this episode when I was 15. Did I heed this advice at all in my 20 years of dating afterwards? Absolutely not.

[Chelsea Fes]

No. Why would you?

[Lauren Garrone]

No, I was like the. Those girls on the steps being like, she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about. He's definitely going to call you. I would say that in the TikTok era, he's just not that into you. Has been rebranded as if he wanted to. He would. Just the same principle.

[Chelsea Fes]

I love that. Yeah, I agree. I do think that if someone is into you, they will move mountains to make it work. They will clear their schedule, they will do whatever the fuck they have to do.

[Lauren Garrone]

Because this comes from Miranda discussing the date she's having. And the guy kisses her. He actually gives her two kisses, but he doesn't come up that evening.

[Chelsea Fes]

I also think it's true with women. Also. I don't think this is just a men thing.

[Lauren Garrone]

I didn't want to presume I was going to limit the focus to what I've experienced in heterosexual relationships.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yes, all genders can be affected by. He's just not that into you. They're just not that into you.

[Lauren Garrone]

Thank you. So this phrase comes from a comedian named Greg Behrend, who was a consultant on Sex and the City, and he does a comedy bit. I'll put comedy bit in quotes that you can find on YouTube where he discusses how this came up.

[Chelsea Fes]

Wait, did they have to, like, hire straight male consultants just so they could write those characters as a diversity hire? Yeah, literally.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know. He discusses in this bit that he was. The writers room were two gay men, you know, 10 straight women and him. And he was a diversity hire. And so he was like, my job was easy. I would just come in, eat great snacks, and, like, hear these women talk unapologetically about sex. And I would rip this clip. But it's exactly how it happens in the episode, which is one day in the writer's room, the women were talking about their dating lives. And in this bid, he discusses how he Basically has to turn his brain off because he wants to stay friends with these women and they're so smart, so funny, so on it. But then when they would discuss men, it's like they would lose their minds and lose all logic. And so one of the writers, he doesn't say which one posits the same question Miranda does and he basically does exactly Berger's dialogue. So they put it in this episode in 2003 and a year later he writes a self help dating book with one of the other Sex and the City writers. Not the writers of this episode, but someone named Liz Tuchelo who was a story editor for Sex and the City at the time. And they co wrote he's just not that into you. I don't know if you remember Chelsea, but this was optioned by Drew Barrymore's production company, Flower Films and was made into a 2009 ROM com.

[Chelsea Fes]

I don't think I've ever seen that, although I did read the book at some point.

[Lauren Garrone]

Did you? What did you learn from it?

[Chelsea Fes]

He basically just says he's just not that into you over and over again. Like it's very much giving, like all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy kind of vibes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or like the beginning of the Simpsons, Bart Simpson just writing the same thing over and over again.

[Chelsea Fes]

Exactly. But it is a public service. The messaging is clear. The messaging is good.

[Lauren Garrone]

Now you may have seen the film He's Just not that into youo. Because this was the beginning of all of those ensemble rom coms like Valentine's Day and Mother's Day and New Year's Eve.

[Chelsea Fes]

Heterosexual propaganda ensemble films. Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

When I tell you the cast of this film, it feels like a made up movie. Because Chelsea, would you believe that. Well, of course Drew Barrymore is in this film. That makes sense. Jennifer Aniston. But Jennifer Aniston's love interest is Ben Affleck.

[Chelsea Fes]

Wait, I think I have actually seen this movie.

[Lauren Garrone]

And who could forget that Bradley Cooper is in this film.

[Chelsea Fes]

Oh no, I've definitely seen this.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. Having an affair with Scarlett Johansson. And we learn later he's actually married to Jennifer Connelly. That's right. Academy Award winner Jennifer Connelly is in this movie.

[Chelsea Fes]

See, Lauren, this is why you would kill at pop culture Jeopardy. Which is my new obsession.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's funny, I'm married to a Jeopardy. Husband, so I've been watching a lot of Jeopardy. And let me tell you, when there is IMDb related questions on Jeopardy. I fucking rule that category. There was recently a category on Normal Jeopardy. That that was songs that have also been Nicolas Cage film titles and I got all of them right.

[Chelsea Fes]

I bet you did. But Pop Culture Jeopardy. Would be so fun because it's. You're not by yourself. You're in a team of three people. And that team, if we wanted to apply, could be me and you and tat because TAT is actually quite good at Pop Culture Jeopardy. When it comes to like the shit that we wouldn't know, which is like things about rappers and athletes and like TikTok shit. I mean you'd probably know that too.

[Lauren Garrone]

I gotta say, normal Jeopardy. Is dipping into Pop Culture Jeopardy. Because there was a TikTok related category semi recently. Only got half of those right. So Pop Culture Jeopardy. Is the one that's hosted by Colin Jost, right?

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay. It says that they're currently waiting on if it will get a second season and if it does, let's apply.

[Chelsea Fes]

I'm in.

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[Lauren Garrone]

So before we dive back into this episode, I just want to say that when you have a self help hit, of course you must write a Sequel. And so after he wrote this book.

[Chelsea Fes]

He'S still just not that into you.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's called A Breakup because it's broken. The Smart Girls Breakup Guide, which was published in 2006. Then he wrote It's Just a Date How To Get Em, Read Em and Rock Em, which came out in 2013. As you might expect, there's some diminishing returns. And then his most recent self help endeavor was released in 2018 called how to Keep youp Marriage from Sucking the Keys to Keep your Wedlock out of Deadlock.

[Chelsea Fes]

Wow. Also, can we discuss the elephant in the room, which is this Mickey Mouse T shirt that Carrie is wearing that I find pulls a lot of focus. I like this outfit. She's wearing a white vintage blazer with this vintage Mickey Mouse shirt. I do think this is the only Carrie Bradshaw outfit that could also be worn by Ellen DeGeneres.

[Lauren Garrone]

Bonnie. I was gonna say it's giving Drew Barrymore circa this era as well.

[Chelsea Fes]

So true.

[Lauren Garrone]

Because she's also wearing leather pants. We don't see that till the next scene.

[Chelsea Fes]

You're right. Maybe more Drew Barrymore. She loves a thread bear T shirt from the Pasadena flea market mixed with.

[Lauren Garrone]

A vintage men's blazer and a natural tit. And leather pants so that the public knows she's still a bad girl.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah. Leather pants have historically been an important item of clothing to Drew Barrymore in her Wild Child era. And in the sort of slightly later Charlie's angel press tour vibes.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. We're specifically talking about the second film's premiere in New York, where I believe she's wearing a shirt that says make out bandits holding a bottle of champagne.

[Chelsea Fes]

Again, this is why you're murdering Pop Culture Jeopardy. Although Pop Culture Jeopardy. Is kind of fucked because, like, they had a category about the Met gala and the $2,000 question was, which actress owned this dress that Kim Kardashian Moore and the Met gal. I'm like, how is that not the hundred dollar question?

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's sounding like if Pop Culture Jeopardy. Gets a second season, we need to be the writers behind it.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, maybe that's a better gig for us.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay, back to the scene. Of course, Miranda loves this. If someone can take some tough criticism, it's Miranda Hobbs. And she's like, you know what? This makes sense to me. It is funny because it does seem that Carrie's column for this week is about if women should shut the fuck up or not. Which you would think that the leading thing of this column is the revolutionary.

[Chelsea Fes]

Idea He's Just not that into you.

[Lauren Garrone]

He might not be into you. It might not be. He's scared of intimacy. He might just not fuck with you.

[Chelsea Fes]

Okay, so shall we get to the next scene where Carrie and Burger say I love you.

[Lauren Garrone]

Too soon?

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, way sooner than I remember. But I understand it after this dinner because like I said, he was his most lovable during that scene.

[Lauren Garrone]

So much so that Miranda whispers to Carrie, I love him. Which made me wonder, should Miranda have just dated Burger?

[Chelsea Fes]

I think that would have been a better fit.

[Lauren Garrone]

I do remember that this is the episode where they say I love you to each other because it's always, I don't know, just I've committed it to memory that Carrie, in her leather pants and stilettos, goes to the freezer, gets two popsicles and is like, which one do you want? And he points to one and she's like, oh, I wanted the other one. We're perfect together. Then he puts his hand over her mouth and is kind of like, shut up. I got to say something. I love you. And I was like. Even as a 15 year old watching it when it first started, I was like, this is. Look, I've never been in love. I mean, at this point I think I'm in love, but I've actually never been in love.

[Sponsor Voice]

I don't.

[Lauren Garrone]

This seems soon and not the right way to do.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, I'm with you. Cut to the next day. Carrie and Charlotte are at some Jewish deli procuring brisket.

[Lauren Garrone]

I was gonna ask you this because I was convinced prior to rewatching the episode that it must have been Zabar's. Cause also, Charlotte invokes it later in the episode, but it does not look like Zabar's at all.

[Chelsea Fes]

They go to Zabar's in another scene, I think. Isn't it the one where Charlotte has the, like, Mirakami Louis Vuitton Papillon?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. Anyway, Carrie knows not to go to Miranda, mostly because at this point I assume Miranda has a crush on Berger. And instead she goes to Charlotte, who is fully in love with Harry, and they just talk about how in love they are.

[Chelsea Fes]

And Charlotte is also really hyped that she's going to be a real Jew. Her words, not mine. And is excited about preparing this dinner for the Sabbath for Harry.

[Lauren Garrone]

Shabbos. Her first Shabbos. She's a real Jew. We need to also get into this Carrie outfit because, oh my God, it is. And I don't say these words lightly, it is a visual abortion.

[Chelsea Fes]

No, I know. I realized something when I was watching this episode, which is that the all time most fucked up, most insane Carrie outfits, they are all revealed in a shot when she is coming home to her apartment in that wide shot, always usually holding mail. Yeah. And we just get a glimpse of something and we were like, what the actual fuck?

[Lauren Garrone]

So in that scene where they're at unnamed Jewish deli, you can see the top half of the outfit, which gave me pause. It is a khaki puffer vest, which makes it look like she runs a VC in Silicon Valley.

[Chelsea Fes]

It also is kind of very Karen y, I think because underneath it is some sort of like blush. Blush colored something. She's wearing like blush colored shorts. It might even be like a romper of some kind.

[Lauren Garrone]

Now, if she wore a romper where we saw the romper or like short overalls and it was over the puffer vest, that would make a little more sense. But the length of.

[Chelsea Fes]

Okay, nothing would make sense about that. And nothing makes sense about this also.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, the length of the shorts, they don't mean anything. Do you know what I mean? Like, they're not. They're not short enough. And they're also not comically long either.

[Chelsea Fes]

No. This is like the most subversive proportion because she's also wearing wedges with this, which is frightening. And these tights, which I actually think are pretty incredible, which have some sort of knee pad looking thing on the tights, but I don't believe they're actually padded. I think it's just like a black oval on each knee.

[Lauren Garrone]

You know what? We'll never know. And more to it. I don't want to know.

[Chelsea Fes]

I don't want to know. But I love it. And this is the scene where she sees Burger's book, Hurricane Pandora, which he has sent to her. I just want to put this out there. Maybe this book didn't do very well commercially because of this cover.

[Lauren Garrone]

This cover, which throughout the episode you will learn what this book is about. This cover does not let you know that this book is about someone who has a high powered fashion job in Manhattan, Chelsea. Do you remember that we were at a trivia night once, A Sex and the City themed trivia night. And we lost because we did not know the answer to Burger's second novel.

[Chelsea Fes]

Oh, really? Yes, the second novel.

[Lauren Garrone]

This is the second novel because he had already written something When They Meet in season five.

[Chelsea Fes]

Okay. And I still would have gotten that question wrong, of course. But didn't we win that trivia night ultimately? I thought we did.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I think we lost if we had won, I don't think I would carry this anger that I currently have.

[Chelsea Fes]

No, I think we did win, and we just missed that question. We definitely won because, remember, at the end, it was, like, between us and one other team. And the question was, where did the baby daddy of Carrie's aborted fetus work? I'm sure they didn't phrase the question exactly like that, but. And you got it right.

[Lauren Garrone]

It was the saloon. Yes. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fes]

And we won.

[Lauren Garrone]

What did we win?

[Chelsea Fes]

A tote bag filled with, like, some Sex and the City stuff. I think we may have also donated some of our own merch to that endeavor. Anyway, whatever.

[Lauren Garrone]

So there is an inscription in the book which says, sure, you could love me, but can you love my book? And Burger's playing a real dangerous game because we're supposed to understand. I know they've recently started dating, but, like, he's not sending her the manuscript. For people who don't remember this episode, it is the finished book about to go into bookstores.

[Chelsea Fes]

No, I thought this was the book that had already been published. Because, remember, they then dropped his second book option, like, I think in the next episode or the one after that, like, this book has already come out. That's why he's so upset about the scrunchie thing. It's not, like, an advance copy.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wait, that's even weirder.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, it's the book that he published.

[Lauren Garrone]

Chelsea, this would be like if in the beginning of Paul and I's relationship, like, after he said, I love you, after we had gotten engaged, I'm like, and now listen to the back catalog of my podcast.

[Chelsea Fes]

Okay, it's not the same thing, because reading a book is not that time consuming, but it's deeply weird to be.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like, you know me and love me on a personal level now consume my work and see if you still feel the same way.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, but I think that Burger was proud of this book or is proud of this book. He obviously has insecurities about it, which we'll get into. But anyway.

[Lauren Garrone]

Exciting announcement.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Lauren Garrone]

Era, but I need it done in under 60 seconds.

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[Lauren Garrone]

There's a brief interlude with Smith Jarrett and Samantha where he is Auditor Smith. And Samantha's about to lose her shirt due to some back taxes. Which as someone who just paid their taxes.

[Chelsea Fes]

Oh, God, don't even talk to me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hit a little too close to home. If only I could trade sexual favors instead of paying taxes.

[Chelsea Fes]

I know. Seriously, is anyone down?

[Lauren Garrone]

I do love Samantha being like, what, are you gonna take the shirt off of my back? And then because Smith Jarrett is a little younger than her, she has to be like, take the shirt off of my back.

[Chelsea Fes]

See, maybe this should be my hot take. But I think she's a bigger top than Smith.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, for sure.

[Chelsea Fes]

So I don't exactly understand the power dynamics of the roleplay scenarios that they're choosing. But whatever, it's hot.

[Lauren Garrone]

Don't think about it. And Samantha has fabulous outfits every time.

[Chelsea Fes]

So Burger comes over to Cari's apartment.

[Lauren Garrone]

This is where he starts to annoy me. He's not even through Cari's threshold. And he's like, are you still reading the book? I can't date a slow reader. It's like, shut the up. She has a job, dude.

[Chelsea Fes]

She has read the book. She just finished it. And she love, love, loved it. Except for there's one huge problem.

[Lauren Garrone]

You have your main character running around town in a scrunchie, and then she whacks his head. She takes her hand and then she just hits him in the forehead. Goes as if like, dum dum. Everyone knows that he is understandably confused. And he's like, but a lot of women in New York wear scrunchies. And she's like, well, maybe getting ready in your bathroom. But no. And this is where we learn that she is a woman who works at W magazine and lives on Perry Street.

[Chelsea Fes]

So this is a fair criticism from Ms. Carrie Bradshaw, although it's one that he takes very personally, unfortunately.

[Lauren Garrone]

Also, you would have hoped that his editor, played by Amy Sedaris, might have made this point when he was writing the book.

[Chelsea Fes]

You're right. She must be a terrible editor. No wonder she got fired, because we know she's fab. Like, she dresses fab.

[Lauren Garrone]

I do understand Burger's annoyance, because what the fuck is he supposed to do about that now that the book is published?

[Chelsea Fes]

For sure, I would feel stupid and exposed if that were me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Again, this is a tough episode with Burger because I like him in the beginning, right here in the middle of the episode, I understand where he's coming from. And then he's gonna lose me.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

So we get a Miranda and Carrie walk and talk. This is when Carrie bemoans, why did I have to get on my sassy horse and ruin everything? And she does have a point. It's like. I mean, she says she loves the book, but literally her first point about the book is, one in their right mind would wear a scrunchie.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, she should have taken a beat to think about that. But how was she to know that he would shut down on that level? And that's the thing about being in a relationship, right? When you're with someone long enough, you can identify what all of their triggers are. And then you do everything in your power to, like, not trigger the person. But she's finding out about this stuff on the fly.

[Lauren Garrone]

She is. And this is ultimately the downfall of their relationship. And the first time we're witnessing this dynamic, which is he is very insecure, especially compared to her, about his writing and his success in that field.

[Chelsea Fes]

And we get the. I couldn't help but wonder. Which is extra special this week.

[Narrator]

One of the signs that a female gorilla is in love is that she can be seen picking nits off her male companion. And yet, in humans, nitpicking can ruin a perfectly good evening, not to mention a relationship. Women are known to be more verbal than men, but when does criticism that's constructive become destructive? Are there times when the ladies should just shut the fuck up up?

[Chelsea Fes]

Obviously starting with us. That starts here. We need to shut the up.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, well, it's been a great episode. We'll see you next week. Again, I'm going to narrow the scope to men and female dynamics, because that is what I know. But I'm going to say that pretty much every man doesn't want to be criticized just as no woman wants to be criticized. Yeah, I was thinking about this because, and maybe this is a gross generalization, but like in, I'll just say heterosexual dynamics. And I've seen this in my own relationship, like women are prone to pointing things out to their partners, which can be seen as criticism. And I just feel like as women, we learn better through shame in a way. Just like you did this wrong. Oh, I did this wrong. I have to do this better. I mean, it has ties to internalized misogyny, but. But I feel like we emulate that. And I just am here to say, like, that does not work for male partners. Like, Bill Burr has this funny bit where he's talking about how men rarely receive compliments and how he was talking to his wife about like every once in a while a man needs an attaboy. Where like his wife was saying to him all the things he didn't clean in the kitchen. He was like, what about the pancakes I made earlier? Wasn't that great? Like, could I get an attaboy every once in a while? And that's all Burger needs. He just needs an attaboy. Hey, you wrote a novel.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, he does need that. And yeah, the commercial failure of this book clearly has affected his self esteem. That's why he's so upset. And yes, there are times when people, especially Carrie Bradshaw, should shut the fuck up.

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[Chelsea Fes]

Meanwhile at Charlotte's, she's doing some home repairs. She's actually nailing a mezuzah which is like a little mini scroll that contains a section of the Torah. What section? I don't know, perhaps it varies. But she is nailing this outside her front door, much to the dismay of.

[Lauren Garrone]

Her older neighbor, a Mrs. Collier. A perfect WASPy name to be horrified by this. And Kristen Davis has the great delivery of the line. I'm a Jew now.

[Listener Caller]

How are you?

[Chelsea Fes]

So good.

[Lauren Garrone]

So this is where we get Miranda on the steps having lunch, which I know a true New York experience. But I was hoping that Miranda being a partner doesn't have to have her to go salad on the steps of a church or an office building or wherever she is.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, that's very much giving. Like I have an internship.

[Lauren Garrone]

So much so that I imagine there are two interns sitting next to her bitching about the guys that they're dating and making justifications that, oh, he's definitely gonna call, he's just busy. And Miranda, very Miranda like is like, you know, I just got this information and it was so freeing to me. I bet it'll be freeing to these 20 something year old women.

[Chelsea Fes]

So she goes up to them and is like, I couldn't help but overhear and I have something to pass along. He's just not that into you. You're welcome. And then walks away. And they're like this fucking bitch.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, they do not fuck with this at all.

[Chelsea Fes]

But the sense of satisfaction that Miranda has on her face is wonderful. And she's in one of her better corporate looks. She's in like a dove gray skirt suit and looks pretty fab and her.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hair is looking pretty good.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, in this season she was having a good hair day.

[Lauren Garrone]

So Samantha and Smith Jared meet up yet again. And do you think Lena Dunham was inspired to write that scene where Hannah and Adam do some role playing? Do you think she was inspired by this exact scene?

[Chelsea Fes]

She could have been. Did Adam Driver's AA shit also come up in their roleplay?

[Lauren Garrone]

Not exactly, but I seem to remember some scene when he is on Broadway and Hannah engineers some role play scenario at a bar. But I do believe she makes sure he gets seltzer or something. But it feels like a Bizarro version of this scene for sure.

[Chelsea Fes]

But a lot of people have been in humiliating roleplay scenarios in their own life. And I'm glad that some people are mining it for comic relief.

[Lauren Garrone]

Samantha is in a truly fabulous dress.

[Chelsea Fes]

We should say really, really, really good dress. It is Fendi. It is a sort of nude illusion dress that's made out of this. What looks like a cobweb of sequins, essentially, that just falls on her body in the most gorgeous way. And the lighting is also really good. She looks so hot, like, unbelievably hot.

[Lauren Garrone]

And Smith Jared comes in and she orders two martinis for the two of them. He says he wants a seltzer. She keeps pushing the issue. And so he has to break the roleplay and admit that he is in aa. What exactly happened, we don't know. But we do know that he was really fucked up for eight years in Seattle.

[Chelsea Fes]

He was doing research for that Gus Van Sant film that would later become his breakthrough.

[Lauren Garrone]

And Samantha Peace is out. This is no longer sexy.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, it's quite shitty of Samantha because, again, she was the top in this situation. Who's forcing him to have a martini but couldn't let it go.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right. This is where we get that scene with Charlotte, Miranda and Carrie where Charlotte has roped Carrie and Miranda to help her make dinner for Harry. How do we feel about Carrie using the phrase Martha Jewart?

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, when I was watching this episode, I was like, are people offended by this?

[Lauren Garrone]

It feels vaguely anti Semitic. It doesn't feel great.

[Chelsea Fes]

It feels some of the Jewish puns are funnier than others. But it does feel like the writing room had a field day over the course of several episodes when Charlotte was converting to Judaism.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, yeah. In this scene, you also have Carrie going. When Charlotte goes the challah. And she goes, okay, you don't have to challah.

[Chelsea Fes]

Thanks for delivering that in Barbra Streisand's dialect.

[Lauren Garrone]

Streisand. Barbra Streisand. There's also this thing when Miranda finds in Charlotte's recipe book that she has scribbled her name or variations of her name with Harry Goldenblatt, that's last name. Where Carrie has this voiceover where she goes with her high school boyfriend. Charlotte doodled with Harry. She doodled, right?

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah. That one's really bad. Is this what Carrie's column is like? Do we need to cancel her for this column? In addition for her bisexuality column, we.

[Lauren Garrone]

Should, at some point rank the carry columns. We think she's most likely to. To have been Canceled for this is.

[Chelsea Fes]

High on the list.

[Lauren Garrone]

So this is where Charlotte confesses that her and Harry are getting married. Except, oops, they haven't actually had that conversation.

[Kristin]

Actually, I've been making some calls and I was wondering how you both felt about November.

[Lauren Garrone]

November for what?

[Kristin]

For our wedding. Most of the synagogues are booked through the fall.

[Narrator]

November works for me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Has Harry even proposed yet? Miranda?

[Narrator]

No, but he will.

[Lauren Garrone]

Aren't you counting your matzah balls before they rise?

[Narrator]

Miranda, zip the lip.

[Lauren Garrone]

See, this is something that when I watched the episode when I was a teenager, made complete sense to me. But now as an adult, the amount of times that these characters in long term relationships do not talk about their expectations or goals is honestly insane. Like the fact that Aiden and Carrie never discuss, like, do you want to get married? Sex and the city is a world. And it's essentially the premise of the show, right? Single people versus married people, that the ultimate goal is to get married. It isn't even a conversation.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, and I'm very much on team Miranda in this scene.

[Lauren Garrone]

She just doesn't want to see her friend get hurt again. Could she have phrased it better? Of course.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah. She didn't need to talk about counting the matzah balls before they rise. Although. Although, that was hilarious.

[Lauren Garrone]

As someone that identifies as a Miranda, you know, we can come off harsh, but it comes from a good place.

[Chelsea Fes]

So Smith and Samantha are back on their role play.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I love that he tricks her into coming out to a different bar. This outfit, I think the Fendi outfit from the previous scene is the best. But I do love this like satin trench with a beret as well.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, I think the trench is Seline, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Lauren Garrone]

And what exactly is this particular role play? Because she says to Smith, Jared, hello, Secret Service Agent Smith. So does she have nuclear? I always say it like George Bush.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, no, keep that in. I know you can say nuclear. We haven't learned anything from all of that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Does she have nuclear secrets? There we go. I said it.

[Chelsea Fes]

I took it that they were both Secret Service agents.

[Lauren Garrone]

You are correct. Because she does refer to this roleplay as Secret Service sluts.

[Chelsea Fes]

Which sounds delightful, frankly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I mean, two people protecting the President who's just. Love gets the best of them. Or I guess lust gets the best of them. So Smith has an even better roleplay idea, which is let's just be ourselves, which. Which not very interesting to Samantha. And honestly, Team Samantha.

[Chelsea Fes]

No, that's so rude. Smith loves her, wants to get to know her.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or at the Very least wants her to know a little bit about him, which she flat out rejects.

[Samantha]

I'm afraid we want different things. You want to tell me all about you and I don't want you to tell me all about you. It spoils the fantasy.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's harsh.

[Samantha]

Yeah, I am harsh. I'm also demanding, stubborn, self sufficient, and always right in bed at the office and everywhere else.

[Commercial Voice]

I already knew that.

[Samantha]

And that's just a little bit about me.

[Commercial Voice]

All right, cool. Let me tell you one little thing about me.

[Samantha]

See, this is exactly what I.

[Commercial Voice]

At least let me tell you my last name.

[Chelsea Fes]

It's Jared.

[Samantha]

Your parents named you Jerry Jarrett. No wonder you drank, right?

[Lauren Garrone]

I didn't realize that. This is the episode we learned that his actual name is Jerry Jarrett. And in all of their role play, his surname that she gives him is Smith. Secret Service Agent Smith, Professor Smith, Auditor Smith, which made me realize when she gives him the name Smith Jared, it's from their role play and his actual last name.

[Chelsea Fes]

Right. Okay. I'm only connecting the dots now, thanks to you. Wow. Because. Yeah, I just. When you watch these out of sequence, you forget when she names him.

[Lauren Garrone]

So all of that fantasy roleplay led to something good.

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[Listener Caller]

And then I rinse it out and I need tummy rinse tonight and I need it more. My kid wears a bed and the smell never leaves. I don't know what to do. I'm always in the dark. The sweat and dead short smells like a dark.

[Commercial Voice]

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[Lauren Garrone]

Now we are on to the Burger and Carrie. Out to dinner scene and burger sees a woman wearing a scrunchie and he.

[Chelsea Fes]

Starts to feel a little vindicated about it.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I do love Sarah Jessica Parker's delivery of the line, she ain't from here.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, it's really, really good.

[Lauren Garrone]

And then they go up to this.

[Chelsea Fes]

Woman and ask her an insane question to ask a complete stranger. Which is, we were just wondering what part of New York you live in.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which in any other context feels like what it would be the beginning of. Like, hey, me and my girlfriend saw you from across the room and we like your vibe. What part of Manhattan do you live in? But this woman starts hysterically laughing and we get a comically Southern accent. And the woman goes, I'm from Macon, Georgia. Oh, my goodness, you made my day.

[Chelsea Fes]

It's a very cute scene. And I'm very happy for Carrie because she is correct. Not that I want this man to be humiliated further. But his smugness was unwarranted.

[Lauren Garrone]

Miranda's storyline for this episode basically ends here, which is Charlotte has set her up with one of Harry's friends and they go on a date, a first date. And the first date location is to have Indian food, which, bold choice given what's about to happen, of course. Miranda's like, I know a place we could get coffee if you wanna, you know, go get some coffee. And he's like, ah, sorry, I got a late night. And Miranda's like, this has been explained to me. I know what this means. And he's like, no, no, I really like you. And she's like, you don't have to do this. I get it. You're just not that into me. And he's like, but I am. And she's like. Like, you're not. Just tell the truth. And she forces this very cute guy to be like, I have diarrhea.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah. Because she's like, be a man. Be honest with me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which calls into question to say, I have diarrhea means it's happening now. So, like, did it start at the restaurant?

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, probably.

[Lauren Garrone]

Because I feel like I would be like, I'm sorry, I'm about to shit my pants. Like, I have to go.

[Chelsea Fes]

Well, that's what we would say.

[Sponsor Voice]

That's true.

[Lauren Garrone]

He's a classy lawyer. So instead he says, I have diarrhea.

[Chelsea Fes]

See, he might have been the one that got away.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, we've agreed. Berger is the one that got away from Miranda, not Dr. Robert Leeds Burger. So this is such a great Sex and the City subversion. These are the things that we missed from. And just like that, right, which is you present this idea that completely reshapes Miranda's thoughts about dating. And then you have this subversion that go. That flies in the face of this idea, which is if someone has to take a shit very badly, doesn't matter how much they like you. Actually, Berger's wrong in that context, which, if memory serves me, I don't think they have a scene like that in the rom com. He's just not that into you.

[Chelsea Fes]

I can't speak to that. It's been a minute. So the Shabbos dinner is finally here. Charlotte no longer has a job, so she spent. Spent an entire week preparing for this feast. For only one other person.

[Lauren Garrone]

And she even made brisket. Which, you know, because in a truly insane ADR line, Evan Handler says, you made brisket. I can't believe you made brisket. And there is a scene like this in. And just like that, that we touched on when Charlotte is trying to talk about LTW's father's second death and Harry won't stop watching a Mets game. I assume that was a callback to this, which is during first Shabbos dinner, he somehow was able to move in with a mini TV that he's placed in Bunny McDougal's dining room and has turned on the baseball game. And when she asks him to turn it off, he puts it on mute, which not great. Like, as she'll get into. She did give up Christ for you. Like, I get doing this six months in to Shabbos dinners, but, like, the first one, man.

[Chelsea Fes]

No, I know. Also, can we talk about the fact that Charlotte kind of looks like Kris Jenner wearing Dolce and Gabbana? Yeah. It's the very distinctive combination of, like, a tight, fitted black dress with a Peter Pan collar, but then she also has this black lace veil.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's very chic.

[Chelsea Fes]

It is very chic.

[Lauren Garrone]

So understandably so. Charlotte is very offended when she figures out that Harry is still watching a baseball game and they get into a fight.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah. Because she's literally, like, speaking Hebrew.

[Kristin]

I gave up Christ for you. And you can't give up the metz.

[Harry]

It's gonna be a long life if you keep that up. I gave up Christ for you. Take out the trash. I gave up Christ for you. Pick up your socks.

[Kristin]

Do you have any idea how hard I worked to prepare this meal for you? I went to Zabar's every day this week. I had to make 30 matzo balls just to get four that were the right size and shape. Not to mention the months of studying and cramming like a maniac to convert to Judaism. And what have you done for me? Set the date. Set the date.

[Harry]

What are you talking about?

[Kristin]

You said you couldn't marry me unless I was Jewish, and now I'm Jewish.

[Lauren Garrone]

Set the date.

[Harry]

You're acting crazy. Do you hear yourself?

[Kristin]

Do you know how lucky you are to have me? Do you know how we look? Do you know what people out there.

[Lauren Garrone]

Think when they see us together?

[Kristin]

Do you?

[Harry]

Yeah, I know what people are thinking. I just didn't think you were one of them.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oof.

[Chelsea Fes]

It's so hard because I'm so on her side initially when she describes all the Things that she had to do to convert to Judaism and prepare the meal and what have you. But then things take a turn when she starts screaming, set the date.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, that's even crazier because it's not even like, when are you going to propose?

[Chelsea Fes]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's not set a date for a proposal. It's set a date for our wedding.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, that's true. Also, she made 30 matzo balls just so she could have four. Let's talk about this food waste for a second.

[Lauren Garrone]

I hope you donated those matzo balls, Charlotte.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah. Jesus Christ.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or not Jesus Christ. By the way, the show that you did not enjoy, but I enjoyed the first season, Nobody Wants this is coming back with season two, and I didn't hate it, but the show is essentially this Harry and Charlotte storyline. And I am wondering if we're gonna get a version of this fight. I'm sure we will. Only time will tell. Or will it be so meta that Kristen Bell is watching this scene in Nobody Wants this?

[Chelsea Fes]

Well, I should hope that Kristen Bell doesn't go off the rails and call Adam Brody ugly.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. So it gets, as you heard, so dark that Charlotte says the quiet part out loud. But I more think that if people saw you on the streets of the Upper east side, they would be like, wait, hold on. Is that woman with her divorce lawyer?

[Chelsea Fes]

Also, nothing is more commonplace than an average looking man and a much hotter younger woman. Yeah, like, that's what couples look like on the Upper east side. It's rare that both of them are smoking hot.

[Lauren Garrone]

And Evan Handler has something too him.

[Chelsea Fes]

Oh, absolutely. I don't even think that Evan Handler is super unattractive. She's really doing him dirty. And he's certainly one of the best guys on the show, him and Smith. Jared.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. And this is before we unfortunately had to see his plastic dong on end just like that. So he was the best of all of them.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

But Charlotte is correct. Even though they clearly didn't have a conversation about this, they were on the same page. Because as he leaves, he says, to think I had a ringmate.

[Chelsea Fes]

Well, you know what? She deserves it. This is the meanest thing she's ever said. And also, I'm very, very saddened that we were deprived of a scene with the girls where Charlotte describes to them what she did. And I can imagine Carrie being like, well, honey, you don't actually think he's ugly, do you? And then Miranda's like, sometimes I like the ugly ones.

[Lauren Garrone]

And then what would Samantha say?

[Chelsea Fes]

Samantha would be like, ew, no.

[Lauren Garrone]

Samantha would be like, you know, a cue ball does have its place every once in a while. I don't know why I gave her a Southern accent. I don't know what's happening there.

[Chelsea Fes]

You've turned her into. What's the chick from. The Southern chick from that one episode.

[Sponsor Voice]

Claire Ann.

[Chelsea Fes]

You've turned her into Claire Anne.

[Lauren Garrone]

Again, the theme of this episode, which does affect every character, it's one of the few episodes where the theme does reach all four ladies is not, he's just not that into you. Again, puzzlingly, the theme of the episode is, you know what? Sometimes a woman should just shut the fuck up.

[Chelsea Fes]

Shut the up.

[Lauren Garrone]

Shut up. I always think about Aiden's delivery during their fight when Carrie is like, yes, just shut up.

[Chelsea Fes]

See, I was thinking of Julianne Moore talking to her lawyer in Magnolia.

[Lauren Garrone]

Shut the up.

[Listener Caller]

I cheated on him many times.

[Lauren Garrone]

I sucked on the men's.

[Chelsea Fes]

So now we have the infamous scene of Carrie and Berger on the street in front of her apartment. Burger is in a bad mood.

[Lauren Garrone]

I have been there, man. I have been on the receiving end of a guy's just bad mood and me trying to, like, I don't know, get him out of it with my effervescence, and it's just not working. Like, I really do feel for Carrie, although I think it. We've all had the point of just, like, you know, you're in a bad mood. It, like, I'm done with this, like, the amount of energy I've expended to make you feel better letter is enough.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, she should have just let him go home, honestly. But she demanded an explanation for his behavior.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also, she's expending so much energy, probably falsely so, of how much she loves the book and naming random details in the book that she thinks is so brilliant. And then he's like, this is so lame. And Carrie thinks it's about the scene she's describing. And he goes, I'm not talking about the book. I'm talking about what you're doing right now. And that just, like, triggered something in my old dating history where, like, I just got indignantly angry because that's the moment I would have been like, go fuck yourself. Go home. Like, fuck this. You know, I'm doing some of my best material to make you feel better.

[Chelsea Fes]

And then he insults her hat.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, she also. I forget that she lays the groundwork for this insult because she's like, if you thought I had made some kind of mistake, I would want you to tell me. And he's like, oh, really, really nice hat. Which. Not exactly the same thing.

[Chelsea Fes]

It's really mean. But also, he does have a point.

[Lauren Garrone]

You don't like the hat.

[Chelsea Fes]

I don't like the hat. I think Carrie can pull off a lot. Certainly wouldn't be my choice. But of course, this is about more than just the hat. By insulting the hat, he is insulting her entire identity. Because fashion is such a huge part of who she is is. And this whimsical sense of style that she's cultivated for herself.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, he's destroying the core of Carrie Bradshaw. Like, this is not equivalent to her pointing out a sartorial mistake that she is correct about. I mean, a woman that works at W magazine on Perry street in 2003 wouldn't be wearing a scrunchie.

[Chelsea Fes]

Maybe Now, I do love that. She immediately doubles down and defends her fashion choice. She's like, it's fabulous. You're a fucking idiot. It. Or whatever. She says, yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

And this is where he finally confesses that I need to belittle you because my book is a big fat failure. And actually it's your fault because you've been trying to make me feel better all night. There are so many moments in the scene where I'm like, break up, break up, break up, break up. And yet they don't.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yet I understand why he would feel insecure about it, but what he is doing is lashing out, out and projecting things onto her. And he continues to do that in later episodes as well.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, it does not get better. But for the time being, they've resolved things. I guess. He does come up and he breaks the tension of the situation by finding a scrunchie in Carrie's apartment, buying a scrunchie and putting it in his back pocket just in case he can do this prank.

[Chelsea Fes]

I think he found it in Carrie's bathroom, because they're in the bathroom. And then he starts. Starts imitating the woman from Georgia, which is delightful. This is the burger we like.

[Lauren Garrone]

He's put it in the back of his hair, the little hair that he has. Not these balding, but just his short hair. And Carrie catches it and starts laughing. And all is well.

[Chelsea Fes]

All is well. But also Carrie's last voiceover is saying, I love you is easy. What comes next is a little scrunchier. Wait, what? Okay. How many Manolos?

[Lauren Garrone]

God, this is tough. I want to say like five or six, but I want to bump up the score because of the.

[Chelsea Fes]

He's just not that into you.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Chelsea Fes]

I think it's like a seven Manolo episode. And the role play with Smith and. And Samantha is delightful. The scene with the big fight with Harry and Charlotte is certainly eventful.

[Lauren Garrone]

There's good stuff in this episode. Even Miranda's storyline is good. But just again, Burger and his burgerness drags the episode down.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, he gets a lot of screen time. Who is the mvp?

[Lauren Garrone]

This is tough. Paradoxically, I want to say Burger, but he's also. Well, I want to vote off the island. See, this is the dichotomy of Burger.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, I'm going with Samantha because I think her comic relief is really needed in this episode. And I appreciate the. The childlike enthusiasm that she has for Secret Service sluts. Who are you voting off the island? Oh, right, okay. You're doing Burger. I'm doing Charlotte. Oh, because she threw away 26 matzo balls for no reason and she called her boyfriend ugly to his face.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, that wasn't great.

[Chelsea Fes]

Best dressed.

[Lauren Garrone]

Can I do a reversal? Can I do the worst dressed?

[Chelsea Fes]

Yes. There are no rules because it is.

[Lauren Garrone]

Carrie in that puffer vest, short knee pad, optical illusion tights. I don't understand what's going on there.

[Chelsea Fes]

Yeah, I'm with you. I'm giving it to Samantha. She looks hot in every single scene. And Carrie looks fucking crazy. Who are you in the episode?

[Lauren Garrone]

Probably Miranda.

[Chelsea Fes]

Sadly, I think I might be Berger. Just because I would spiral about that scrunchie comment as well. Well, if it was me.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, same.

[Chelsea Fes]

I really would. Biggest trigger.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oof.

[Chelsea Fes]

I'm going with the wedges that Carrie wears when she first receives Burger's book.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I just. The way he says nice hat really set me off.

[Chelsea Fes]

What is your hottest take?

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I think I kind of said it, which is I don't think that Berger and Carrie should be together. I think Miranda and Berger should be. I think that would have been a very nice relationship.

[Chelsea Fes]

My hottest take is that the IRS auditor role play is scarier and more transgressive than the masked intruder role play.

[Lauren Garrone]

Is that also your biggest trigger?

[Chelsea Fes]

That is also my biggest trigger. Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think that does it.

[Chelsea Fes]

This was a fun episode to talk about.

[Lauren Garrone]

Should we read all of those self help books?

[Chelsea Fes]

No, absolutely not. But you should read he's just not that into you. You could do it in like two hours or maybe 45 minutes if you listen to the audiobook on double speed.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, challenge accepted, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Fes]

And we will be back next week.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, bye, guys.

[Chelsea Fes]

Bye.