260: A Valentine's Day Mailbag Epsiode (Feat. Karley Sciortino)

Summary

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Every Outfit Podcast, Ep. 260

A Valentine's Day Mailbag Episode (Feat. Karley Sciortino) Date: February 13, 2026
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garrone
Guest: Karley Sciortino (writer/sexpert, host of the “Hotline” Substack)

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Episode Overview

This vibrant, frank Valentine's Day special features Chelsea, Lauren, and returning guest Karley Sciortino answering listener-submitted questions on relationships, sex, contemporary dating, and pop culture. The tone is irreverent, witty, and unfiltered—a blend of strong opinions, personal anecdotes, and cultural analysis. The trio take on hot topics from “is waiting for marriage archaic?” to “what’s the sexiest song?” to “is having a boyfriend embarrassing?”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Waiting for Marriage to Have Sex

• Listener Question: Advice for a 23-year-old woman waiting for marriage—"I feel like that girl that Carrie meets in the Hamptons."
  • The hosts collectively think waiting for marriage is unnecessary unless rooted in genuine, personal religious conviction.
  • Karley: “If it's about some societal expectation...you want to make sure you have some kind of connection with them in that department before you sign up to be with them for life. But imagine the pressure...losing your virginity with them on your wedding night. That sounds like horrible.” (06:50)
  • Lauren analogizes sex to driving or cooking: “You get better at sex the more you do it...like, were you good at driving the first time?” (03:37)

2. Not Having Sex in Long-term Relationships

• Listener Question: Is it bad to not have had sex with my partner of 1.5 years?
  • All agree: only a problem if one person is unhappy about it.
  • Karley cites sexual researcher Dr. Jean of Rangalova: “Sexual dissatisfaction in long-term relationships most often comes from misaligned desire.” (08:13)

3. Best Dan Savage Sex Advice

• Unanimous favorite: "Fuck First" (have sex before dinner/events to avoid feeling too full/tired).
  • Chelsea: “If you feel too fat and bloated and drunk to fuck, then you start to spiral about the relationship because you're like, oh my God, we didn't fuck on Valentine's Day.” (10:09)
• Karley praises the “Price of Admission” concept: accept a partner’s flaws, but warns against loudly complaining about them to others: “It makes you look worse than them.” (11:25)

4. Internet Kinks: Men Whimpering ASMR

• The hosts are bemused/disturbed by this trend.
  • Chelsea: “It was just like men making pathetic little grunty, whispery noises. I thought it was really gross.” (12:28)
  • Karley: “Not for me—but I kind of like it as something so fucking weird... there was something dom/subby about it...I like that no matter what you’re offering, there’s someone who’s into that specialty.” (13:30)

5. Buying Gifts for Men on Valentine's Day

• General advice: keep it minimal or mutual; experiential gifts are better than chocolates or generic items.
  • Lauren: “Do not get a man a gift on Valentine's Day...take your man's credit card to buy yourself lingerie and then take photos for him.” (15:15)
  • Karley: “When I've been dating men on Valentine's Day...it's pretty easy to look at their life and be like, he would really benefit from a nice set of knives...like, casserole pot or whatever.” (18:10)
  • All: If it’s a situationship, don’t get a gift.

6. How Many Couples Are Really Happy?

• Listener asks for percentage of truly happy couples:
  • Chelsea: “Somewhere between two-thirds and three-quarters of couples I know I'd qualify as happy... that's actually pretty good.” (20:52)
  • The trio discuss that happiness in relationships increases with age and self-knowledge.
  • Karley: “I can say for certain that I am someone who has a higher contentment mode when single... because I've been in more volatile relationships.” (21:04)
  • Lauren: “I was single until the very last moment where I found a person who enriched my life.” (23:07)

7. Dating Nihilism & Heterofatalism

• Listeners share despair about the straight dating pool.
  • Lauren: “Someone out there shares the same view about dating—that it's a nihilistic hellscape.” (26:32)
  • Karley: “Dating apps are warped and fucked up... it’s meaningful to try to meet people in person.” (27:41)

8. Rekindling Romance After Kids/12 Years Together

• Advice: Schedule regular date nights; carve out independence to create longing/desire.
  • Karley: “Statistically the best advice about how to increase desire is to get away from each other... Desire needs space; fire needs air.” (30:13)

9. Pop Culture Lightning Round

• Shane vs. Ilya from Heated Rivalry: unanimous preference for Ilya.
• “Is thinking about a TV character during sex cheating?”—No, unless you would object if the roles were reversed. Be present if possible.

10. Karley’s Movie at Sundance

• Karley shares her new film, I Want Your Sex, directed by Gregg Araki, premiered at Sundance.
  • “It’s a BDSM romantic comedy… seeing Cooper Hoffman play some alternate universe version of me getting dragged around by his hair by Olivia Wilde was wild.” (37:55)
  • Magnolia will release it later this year.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sex and Waiting:
  • Karley: “Sex is a way that you connect with your partner—imagine the pressure...losing your virginity on your wedding night. That sounds horrible.” (06:50)
• On Valentine’s Day Gifts for Men:
  • Lauren: “Take your man's credit card to buy yourself lingerie and then take photos for him. That's the gift.” (15:36)
• On Dating App Fatigue:
  • Lauren: “All men on dating apps don't ask questions. In real life, when you go on dates...a man will talk to you for 90 minutes.” (25:52)
• On Romance Burnout:
  • Chelsea: “Someone is looking to add a bit more romance after 12 years and two kids... If I was seeking romance, I would have a standing date night.” (29:59)
  • Karley: “Desire needs space, fire needs air. You can't want something that's on fucking top of you.” (30:13)
• On Buying Lingerie After Weight Loss:
  • Karley: “Chantel ... they last a really long time, and they're pretty, and they support. As someone with big boobs—it's doing a lot of work.” (101:26)
• On ‘Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing?’
  • Karley: “I think this article is representative of an exciting shift ... a reframing of a woman’s role in a heterosexual relationship.” (75:29)
  • Chelsea: “Having a partner of any gender can be embarrassing. I mean, have you seen some of the lesbians on the Internet?” (77:53)
• On Bianca Censori’s Vanity Fair Profile:
  • Chelsea: “I don't think there was any advantage to her giving this interview. She should remain unknowable.” (86:35)
  • Karley: “You didn't say anything. All you said was ‘I love him, despite he's a Nazi.’” (89:10)

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Pop Culture/Style Q&A Highlights

• Margot Robbie’s Wuthering Heights Press Looks:
  • Lauren praises the chic, thematic, and "fun" ensembles—a successful stylistic streak post-Barbie.
• American Girl’s Yassified Dolls:
  • Chelsea: “They look bratified. Not as cool as they could be. Just ugly clothes.”
• Best Sex and the City Hookups:
  • Karley: “John Slattery the politician—so charismatic, so kinky ... the possibility there!” (80:57)
  • Lauren: “Ray the jazz musician... special hyperfocus on making Carrie orgasm.” (81:52)
• Quarter Zips & Dating:
  • Safe to date a guy who wears one? Depends—could be an indicator of tech-bro style or simply knitwear fashion.
  • Karley: “When I think of that I think of guys in San Francisco...sure I've slept with men who wear quarter zips but it's not aspirational.” (96:11)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:08 – Karley Shortino introduction
• 02:17–07:16 – Discussion: Waiting till marriage for sex, sexual skill-building
• 07:25–09:01 – Not having sex in a long-term relationship; asexuality & mismatched desire
• 09:01–11:46 – Dan Savage’s advice: “Fuck first,” “Price of Admission”
• 12:00–13:41 – Men whimpering ASMR trend
• 15:04–18:53 – What to buy a man for Valentine's Day (or not)
• 19:54–24:03 – % of couples truly happy? Stability & singlehood vs. relationships
• 24:41–28:21 – Dating nihilism; men not asking questions on dates; apps vs IRL
• 29:47–32:49 – Rekindling desire post-kids/long-term partnership: space & independence
• 33:06–36:27 – Heated Rivalry (Shane vs. Ilya); “Is fantasizing about TV hunks cheating?”
• 36:38–39:19 – Karley’s film at Sundance, “I Want Your Sex”
• 54:53–55:29 – Affordable luxuries under $50 (donuts, skincare, flowers)
• 59:09–63:06 – Vogue editorship transition: Chloe Malle and Anna Wintour NYT interview
• 75:29–77:35 – ‘Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing?’ Viral Vogue essay
• 80:53–81:52 – Best Sex and the City “boyfriend of the week”
• 84:02–86:09 – Samantha’s blowjob logic (classic SITC overthinking)
• 86:34–90:55 – Bianca Censori’s Vanity Fair interview
• 101:20–104:49 – Lingerie after weight loss, recommendations for supportive and pretty bras (Chantelle)
• 109:11–110:54 – Should you send yourself flowers if your anti-Valentine’s partner won’t?

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Final Takeaways

• The episode blends pop culture, sex/relationship advice, and fashion snark, always with candor and humor.
• The key through-line: healthy relationships (and fashion choices!) are about authenticity, communication, and a little bit of irreverence.
• Notable recurring advice: Don’t wait for marriage to have sex unless it’s a true core conviction; don’t buy men unnecessary Valentine’s gifts; romance can be revived with distance; and beware of making your life harder (or stranger) for the sake of aesthetics or trends.

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Karley Sciortino’s Substack: Hotline
VIP Sex in Cinema Episode: Available via the Every Outfit Patreon

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This summary covers all major topics and memorable banter, with timestamps and key quotes for context. For the full unfiltered experience—including wild sidetracks, Sex and the City deep cuts, and off-the-cuff laughs—listen to the full episode!

Transcript

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Carly Shortino]

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[Lauren Garrone]

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[Carly Shortino]

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[Carly Shortino]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garrone]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[Listener Caller]

Great gowns.

[Carly Shortino]

Beautiful gowns.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garrone.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless.

[Lauren Garrone]

And welcome back to the Every Outfit podcast. This is a very special episode is a Valentine's Day hotline slash mailbag episode and we have a very special guest joining us.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Today we are joined once again by writer and sexpert Carly Shortino. Thank you for coming back.

[Carly Shortino]

Hey guys, I'm so excited to be.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Here and I'm so excited to hear all of your takes because we have some very good questions that were submitted on Instagram and I want to start with one that did shock me a little bit. I'll be honest. Someone wrote in and said advice for a 23 year old woman waiting for marriage. I feel like that girl that Carrie meets in the Hamptons. And by waiting for marriage, I assume she means waiting to have sex until marriage.

[Carly Shortino]

Okay, I actually was a little bit confused about it.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, that's how I took it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Because she feels like the girl that Carrie meets in the Hamptons, which is sort of.

[Carly Shortino]

She's acknowledging that. It's a little crazy because I feel like that woman in Sex in the City was represented as being a little bit delusional or prude. Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

And I don't want to be judgmental because this person is a fuck ad, but I feel like here at the Every Outfit podcast, we've been very upfront that we think that you should fuck people immediately.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, also, to go back to what Carrie says to that girl, like, what do you like about my column again?

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, my column about blowjobs.

[Chelsea Fairless]

To each their own. Just because this choice wouldn't be right for me doesn't mean that it's not right for this fuckette. Although my instinct is to protect this woman from having a terrible sex life. Like Charlotte and Trey. We have to learn from them.

[Lauren Garrone]

I feel like I would just ask this person a question, which is, were you very good at driving or cooking the first time? I know for me, I wasn't, because these are skills you get better at in doing it time after time. And I feel like maybe controversial sex is like that.

[Carly Shortino]

I love that you're like, I don't want to talk shit about anyone who's my fan, but I think it's important to ask yourself, like, why. Why are you waiting until marriage? There is something that feels archaic and gendered about that, where the reason that happened is because women were meant to be pure for a man, and that was never an expectation of men. Usually. I'm curious if it's like this woman is with somebody and waiting or just has the idea that they are going to have sex until marriage. I think I land somewhere in between you guys. I actually don't think you should fuck someone immediately, having done it many times. I think it is better to wait at least a handful of dates. You're both looking at me like I'm.

[Chelsea Fairless]

A psycho, but no, I don't think it's psycho.

[Carly Shortino]

But I think waiting until marriage is also kind of psycho, I guess. Unless your religion is your life.

[Lauren Garrone]

Look, I was going to say that Tina Fey has given interviews. I think it's in her book Bossy Pants. But she did not lose her virginity until 24, 25, and it was to the guy she ended up marrying, and they are still married, and I assume happily so. There is a pathway. But in you saying what you said, Carly, it does make me wonder if this person. Wait, no, she is a virgin because she's waiting till marriage. But I was like, is there a scenario where she has fucked people immediately? And she's just like, you know what, this hasn't worked.

[Carly Shortino]

She's Aiden, right?

[Lauren Garrone]

Aiden didn't want to have sex with Carrie because he actually liked her.

[Carly Shortino]

When you get what you want immediately, the chance of you continuing to want it, I think are less, at least in my experience. I think this is often talked about in a gendered way where it's like, ladies, don't give it away right away because the man's not going to be interested anymore. I have learned for myself, if I sleep with someone immediately, my interest in them drops off. If I build tension and then want them and then continue to want them and like build slower and make out but don't fuck. And like that elongates my attraction to them. If you fuck someone immediately, I don't know, you're just like, okay, I got what I wanted.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, my thought process behind that is that I feel like how someone treats you after like a one night stand is a good indicator of character. And also it's like, what if you really like the person and form an attachment to them and then the sex is like kind of whatever. Then when you break up with them, they'll definitely know that it was because of the sex.

[Carly Shortino]

What about if the sex is on like date for.

[Lauren Garrone]

By the way, I just want to say we have not answered this person's question at all, which was advice for a 23 year old woman waiting for marriage.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean my advice is you should have sex before marriage, especially with the person you're planning on marrying.

[Carly Shortino]

It's time to get introspective about why you are waiting. If you really truly believe in and of yourself for some reason about faith that you want to wait and you want your partner to wait too. I guess I don't want to get in the way of that. But if it's like about some societal expectation, I don't know, I would just examine that because I do think like you're saying sex is a way that you want to be able to connect with your partner and like you want to make sure you have some kind of connection with them in that department before you sign up to be with them for life. But like imagine the pressure of being with someone waiting until marriage to have sex and then losing your virginity with them like on your wedding night. That sounds like horrible.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I agree. Best to avoid. Okay, next question. Is it bad to have not had sex with my partner? Of 1.5 years.

[Lauren Garrone]

Not if you both don't want to have sex.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Is this like asexual for asexual? Because that could be perfect.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I think there's something beautiful about two low sex needs people who have found each other.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, I completely agree. I feel like, you know, how often should you have sex? There are these blanket terms that are said out loud in society all the time where it's like, you know, if you're single, if you don't have sex for three months, it's often thrown out. That's bad. Or if you're in a relationship, you should be having sex once a week. And it's just like, I think that these blanket statements are totally not applicable to everybody. And if you are both happy not having sex, like go off. That sounds great.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. But if you guys both want to be having sex and you're not, then there is a problem and you need to figure out what that is. Exactly.

[Carly Shortino]

Or if one of you does. My friend who's this sex researcher, Dr. Jean of Rangalova. I love her and she was like, she said that it's been studied that sexual dissatisfaction in long term relationships most often comes from misaligned desire. So one person just having a higher sex drive or higher need for that than the other. That is where largely dissatisfaction lies. And I think that's interesting where it's another reason to not wait till marriage to have sex. Because you're not going to work out how often one of you wants it and you know, versus the other one until after you're already committed. Where you kind of want to get a sense of like, are we aligned on this? Some people want to have sex all the time. Some people are happy doing it like once every six months. You wouldn't be good partners for each other if you're so misaligned in that way.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Exactly. Okay. Dan Savage advice that you live by.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think we're gonna have the same advice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. Fuck first.

[Lauren Garrone]

Fuck first. Oh, fuck.

[Carly Shortino]

Before dinner.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. This is a phrase or piece of advice he coined specifically for Valentine's Day, but I think also anniversaries. Yeah. It works for any event, which is fuck, get ready for said event, go to set event, eat a rich meal, go to sleep.

[Carly Shortino]

I love that also because then you're not drunk. Because when I'm drunk, I can't feel as much. My sensation goes down a lot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well also, like especially on Valentine's Day or an anniversary, you're fucking bloated because you just went to a steakhouse or some Shit.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or in the words of Perry Goldenblatt, the fucking fromage.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly. And also I think because getting a reservation is so competitive on Valentine's Day, if you fudge, like when you would normally have dinner and then get a late dinner reservation, you'll have more options in terms of where you can eat.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Carly Shortino]

And then you could always have sex or hook up or make out again drunkenly if you want to. But there's not the pressure to, because you've already done it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And the whole thing is that, like, if you feel too fat and bloated and drunk to fudge, then you start to spiral about the relationship because you're like, oh, my God, we didn't fuck on Valentine's Day, or we didn't fuck on our 10 year wedding anniversary or whatever.

[Carly Shortino]

I have some Dan Savage advice that I really like, which I think that you guys both, as partnered, people really take. So he talks a lot about, like, the price of admission, which is everybody is going to have something about them that's annoying. So if your partner has this annoying thing about them, that's the price of admission to dating them because you have your own. But along with that advice, he says, don't complain about your partner's annoying things to other people. Like, you know those people who are always talking shit about their partner, always complaining about X or Y, and he's like, you just can't do that. You have to shut up about it. And I think that's so true because it's like, if your partner is so bad, why are you with them? Like, I hate those people that always talk about their partner.

[Lauren Garrone]

I thank you for that compliment. I guess we have not talked about our partners to our friends.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I agree. I agree. And I also think you should refrain from talking about exes for the most part also, unless they're full monsters.

[Carly Shortino]

Maybe I need to learn from that one. I definitely think it's okay to have meaningful conversations with close friends about issues in your relationship. Obviously, like, oh, we're having this hard time, but just kind of like walking around complaining about them to anyone who will listen. I think it makes you look worse than them. And that's Dan's habit advice. I really remember.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I've never understood people who, when they break up with a boyfriend or something, they're like, and he was so bad in bed and his dick was so small. It's like, that's a reflection on you. You were with this person for a year and a half.

[Carly Shortino]

I know, it's so true.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I have another question that scares me a little bit. Thoughts on this trend taking off recently. Men whimpering ASMR.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay. All I could find were these YouTube videos with variations of names like planking until I collapse. Challenge asmr. And one person was in the scream ghost face mask.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That sounds hotter than what I saw.

[Lauren Garrone]

What did you find?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It was just like men making pathetic little like grunty, whispery noises. And I thought it was really gross. And I was just like, this is not for me.

[Carly Shortino]

Not for me. But I kind of like it as just like something so fucking weird. It like, makes me appreciate the spectrum of people are interested in. There was like something like Dom Subby about it maybe where the men seem kind of pathetic. And I was like, I don't know. I guess it seems kind of cool. Like, I don't know. I like it.

[Lauren Garrone]

Why don't we drop in a clip here?

[Carly Shortino]

Come on, please.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Just getting more and more intense. See, if a man is talking dirty, I want him to be, like, telling me about the fact that he's going to build me a bigger closet or something. I don't want that.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, same. But I love that for them.

[Lauren Garrone]

Look, there's something for everyone. Like, there's T. Rex erotica. So to each their own.

[Carly Shortino]

And I like that. I like that no matter what you're offering, there's going to be someone who's into that specialty. It's one of the most amazing things about the Internet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True.

[Lauren Garrone]

These people can.

[Carly Shortino]

These freaks can find each other.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, we do ads for Wayfair now?

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

You know, I've been looking to revamp my office. And I've scoured the Internet and I've been everywhere but Wayfair.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm assuming Wayfair.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Lauren Garrone]

Potentially a controversial question. What should you buy for a man on Valentine's Day? I did see the person who left this question, or at least their thumbnail. This seemed to be a woman.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So we're talking about what to buy a heterosexual man.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. And my answer is nothing really. Look, this comes from a reformed chronic over giver, people pleaser to emotionally unavailable men. Do not get a man a gift on Valentine's Day. And I read this question to Paul, he was like, oh no. You take your man's credit card to buy yourself lingerie and then take photos for him. That's the gift.

[Carly Shortino]

Oh my God, I love that. That makes me like Paul even more. More.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also agree with lingerie. I think that's a good gift. That's a classic gift. I don't know about getting guys like satin boxers. I don't know about all that. Although Justin Bieber did look hot at the Grammys, so maybe. But also like a hotel room, you're.

[Carly Shortino]

Like chipping in and getting something for yourselves. Like a couple present together. That's a more experiential thing versus like, oh, I'm getting you chocolates.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

But this question, how I took it was like, what gift should I get a guy on Valentine's Day? And it's like if you are getting a gift, it has to suit you somehow. Like it should benefit you in some way.

[Carly Shortino]

Okay, but.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But that's like an insane like caveat.

[Lauren Garrone]

To have for gift giving on Valentine's Day.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But you could just get him like a nice bottle of cologne. Like that's chic, sexy, and you get to smell it.

[Carly Shortino]

And this way you like the way he smells. So I guess you kind of benefit. I mean, are you saying don't get a man something, but a man should get a woman something?

[Lauren Garrone]

I should. A caveat. I'm seeing this question as like you're not in a relationship. Maybe this is a situationship. Like if you're in a relationship, of course get your partner a gift on Valentine' instead.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. No part of this question suggests situationship. If anything, I would assume it is someone in a long term relationship or married.

[Lauren Garrone]

Then you give your suggestions. I'm just saying if you guys did.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Although, look, if you're shopping for cologne, I was talking to Isabelle about this the other day. She was like, oh, I was trying to find a cologne for my boyfriend at Dover Street Market and I couldn't find anything. Don't go there. Like half of those, like come to Garcon cologne smell like gasoline. Like, go to like a Nordstrom or something and like figure it out.

[Carly Shortino]

I would agree. If you're in a situationship, do not get them anything. Lower the lift and potentially get out of the situationship you're in. I just feel like it's that those do not work well for people. Usually I would say this is not the most romantic suggestion, but I always kind of feel like the best gifts are ones that improve people's life in some way that they wouldn't think to get themselves or they just wouldn't get themselves.

[Lauren Garrone]

Like therapy.

[Carly Shortino]

Getting a man therapy for Valentine's Day is iconic. And if you've ever done that, please write in because I need to hear the story that it's the most passive aggressive move of all time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, if someone does that to you, I feel like that's grounds for like an instant breakup on Valentine's Day.

[Carly Shortino]

That's iconic though. But I generally feel like when I've been dating men on Valentine's Day, men are missing a lot of things in their lives on average. So it's pretty easy to look at their life and be like, he would really benefit from a nice set of knives. He would really benefit from a whatever, like casserole pot or whatever, like La Cressette or something like that. But get the lodge one, the cheaper one. But you know, where there's just like their house is missing things that they obviously need and that you would benefit from. Lauren, to your point, from being in their house.

[Chelsea Fairless]

There you go.

[Carly Shortino]

Is this boring?

[Lauren Garrone]

No. No. Thank you for coming in at the end and making it seem like I'm not a completely heartless.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, we have a voicemail.

[Listener Caller]

Hey, Lauren and Chelsea. So I'm excited for the V Day episode. I love it when you guys do the mailbags. But my question for you guys is, how many couples do you guys know personally? And I mean, maybe this is too hot of a take for you to answer, but like, percentage wise, how many couples do you know that you genuinely believe are happy, are in love, do enjoy their partners, want to be in the relationship, and they're not delusional or faking it or lying to themselves. I might be a bit cynical having never been in a serious relationship myself and I'm currently single, but I just feel like everyone is lying to themselves and not really happy in a relationship and actually could be happy or single, but they just. Just don't think they should be. Is that just me or do you guys feel what I'm saying? Would love to hear you elaborate on this subject. All right, love you guys. Bye.

[Carly Shortino]

I love this question. It really makes me laugh because it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Makes you interrogate, like, roughly what percentage of couples I know are like quite happy in the relationship.

[Carly Shortino]

I feel like now that I'm 40, looking around at my friends, I see a lot of people in good relationships. I think it depends what age bracket you're in. Like, if you asked me this question 10 years ago, I would have been like, actually a lot of my friends are in really relationships where I do think that they'd be happy or single. And now they're often out of those relationships.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I think it depends on the age. I also think it's a sliding scale, like how many people are still together in long term relationships because of the sunken fallacy cost where they're like, we've been together this long, we should probably stay together. There are probably people with kids who are like, we should stay together for the kids. This fucking asked for a percentage. And so I'm like, I don't know, 63%?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I think about somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of couples I know I would qualify as being in a good, happy relationship, which is actually pretty. Pretty good.

[Carly Shortino]

Pretty good. I think I know what this is talking about because this is something I talk about in therapy all the time. When I look back at my life having been single for now like three, four years, I can say for certain that I am someone who is more stable and has a higher just like life contentment mode when I am single. But it's because I can look back at my relationships and be like, I was in more volatile or just like destabilizing relationships. And I think that it does with my brain a little bit. Because you're like, part of me is like, oh my God. Getting a relationship seems scary because it just destabilizes your life. It makes you less happy. But my therapist often reminds me, no, you just don't know what it's like to be in a stable relationship. So I do think relationships can increase your life happiness, but it has to be a good relationship. I don't think by default being in a relationship is better than being single.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It definitely isn't. Although sometimes people I think stay partnered because they have a scarcity complex and they're scared of the reality of dating and finding someone. And that's completely understandable, I get it. But not necessarily the best reason to stay in a long term relationship that no longer works or never worked. Sometimes people get into relationships when they're young and then they stay in them and they kind of evolve in a different direction as their partner but no one really wants to blow up the relationship.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, because they're scared of being alone and end of getting back into the dating pool, which does have its issues. But I also think some people are more oriented toward being single and some people are more relationship people. Like I have a friend who recently started dating this guy and her personality is just better because she was miserable single. And so I think some people aren't good at being alone and some people are not good at being partnered. So it's all about where do you thrive to use an embarrassing word. I mean you're someone, Lauren, who was single for a really long time and now you're in a relationship. What's your take?

[Lauren Garrone]

I was single up until the very last moment where like I found a person who enriched my life. I wasn't willing to compromise my single life unless it was someone that was going to make my life better.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Wait, what do you mean up until the last moment?

[Lauren Garrone]

Meaning that I was like very happily single until I was in a committed relationship with the person that I ended up marrying.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, got it.

[Lauren Garrone]

But I upon retrospect realize, and I think those around me would agree I am just a happier person now. And I've like something I've interrogated in therapy of like, oh, I was single for so long that that of course was my normal but like there was a base level unhappiness. There was just a sharpness to me that didn't need to be there and has sort of that edginess that I had towards people. I think has smoothed out in being in a relationship with Paul.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I agree.

[Carly Shortino]

That's amazing. I mean that is the best outcome that you could ask for because you're getting that kind of like intimate support that's actually like making you feel lighter. Like that is a good, that's sign a good relationship. And I also think part of why your, what your unhappiness was coming from when being single was just the misery of dating. Probably like the more you were dating, the less happy you Were.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, should we jump into the question that we got? That is how to not be so nihilistic about the heterosexual dating scene?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Carly, you're the expert.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, I was starting to say this before we recorded, but, Carly, you and I would have this conversation when you were in a relationship. I was single and I was telling you how bad it was and how bad of dates I would go on. I'm like, carly, they do not ask a single question.

[Carly Shortino]

It's insane. I. I know. And you were saying that I didn't hear you at the time and I definitely did hear you.

[Lauren Garrone]

No, no, you heard me. But there was. You would always give a look of like, I don't know if that's 100% true.

[Carly Shortino]

I definitely could tell that you seemed jaded, which I think does then impact the lens through which you see things. And I'm saying that because I relate to that. Like, I have gone through periods where it's like, oh, I'm jaded. And so then you are bringing that energy to dates as well. It's like you can't avoid it. Right. But to your point, one of the craziest experiences of my life has been dating as an adult. Like, I got single when I was 36, I'm now 40. Street men don't ask questions. And okay, not all men, hashtag or whatever, but most of them, sorry, but.

[Lauren Garrone]

All men on dating apps don't ask questions. In real life, when you go on.

[Carly Shortino]

Dates with them, it is one of the wildest phenomenon in the world. You will show up on a date and a man will talk to you for 90 minutes. And it's this weird thing where, okay, so the not compassionate view is they're like self obsessed narcissists. The compassionate view is. And I think that this is a big part of it, they're very nervous and they are trying to pitch themselves to you and they think that the more they talk, the more impressive they will seem. But they don't realize they're actually just like digging themselves into a hole of unattractiveness.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That makes sense.

[Lauren Garrone]

But to give advice to this person who asked that question, I would just say that there is someone out there, probably dozens of people who share the same view about dating. And so there is also someone there being like, this is a nihilistic hellscape. Where is my person? And that's what I just kept thinking. I'm like, there's got to be someone else out here who's like, this is terrible. And that person will eventually find me and things will Be okay.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. Someone said something so sweet once that resonated with me. I can't remember who said it, but it was like, okay, you're struggling. You're trying to find your person. Think about this. Your person is also out there struggling, trying to find their way to you. I was like, that's sweet, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

That is sweet.

[Carly Shortino]

Like you're searching for each other. That's romantic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, I like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Although I am remembering that I did I provided background quotes for one of your articles for Vogue where I was like, all the good people are in relation in bat. All the good men are in bad relationships they can't get out of.

[Carly Shortino]

It's true. Maybe the forties is when that breaks. But if we're giving advice about heterofatalism, I do just want to say I, I don't think all men are bad. I think there are great men out there. I have many male, straight male friends who are wonderful. I think step one to being a little bit less fatalistic is to really put an effort to meeting people off app. I think dating apps are warped and fucked up and do bad things to our brain and the way that we assess people on there is skewed and we're searching for the wrong things. And I think it's meaningful to try and meet people in person. Go to singles events, ask your friends to set you up. You will have better experiences.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think think you are absolutely correct.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

Of of questions that were similar to this one. Romance. After 12 years and two kids, I'm tired.

[Carly Shortino]

There's not a question, it's just a statement.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, someone is looking to add a bit more romance into their long term relationship. If I was seeking romance, I think I would just try and have like a standing like date night or something where you're like forced to get away from the kids.

[Carly Shortino]

That sounds good to me. I know that works for some people. It actually statistically increases sex frequency when you have standing date night. I have not ever been in a super long relationship. I've been in a relationship for five years. But I can say statistically the best advice about how to increase desire is to get away from each other. Like you have to I think really make the effort to have independent lives. Go out with your friends on your own. Like have girls night, have him have his guys night, go on vacations separately. Like just because you're in a relationship does not mean you can't have a girl's vacation. Like I feel like people get into relationships and then they. I mean it's the Esther Perel thing, right? Desire needs space, fire needs air. Like you can't want something that's on fucking top of you. So I really feel like forging independent lives is increasingly important the longer you've been with someone. Like a lot of us in creative fields, it's built in. Like you and Tat for example, are traveling for work so you're apart. And then when you come back together, aren't you more likely to and miss each other and be affectionate if you haven't seen each other in a while?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, of course.

[Carly Shortino]

A lot of people's lives, especially people who just have normal jobs, that's not built in. Like you have to orchestrate that if it's not a natural part of what your lifestyle is.

[Lauren Garrone]

So unfortunately to this who is very tired, our advice is more work.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I think the advice is like go on a cute girls trip, get away from your partner so you want to fuck them again. It seems logical to me.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, you have to find ways to.

[Lauren Garrone]

Miss each other or to carve out time for each other. Like I remember my brother and sister in law who've been together for 20 plus years. When Paul and I were getting married and my in laws were flying in, they asked them to fly in early so that they could go to Vegas for a couple days and just have like a mini vacation away from their three kids.

[Carly Shortino]

Yes, totally. And also this is a very basic book, but on your date nights or whatever, it's the time that you've dedicated for yourself. Even if it's a few hours. Don't have your phone, Just give each other actual attention. So you're having meaningful time versus like this weird ambiguous period where you're apparently together but the person is like texting. That's I think digging yourself deeper.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or you're in the same room, on the couch together, in bed together, but you're not talking because you're both doom scrolling.

[Carly Shortino]

Which is gonna happen. Right? But then if you're setting up romantic time, you can't be doom scrolling in that time. Keep the doom scrolling for a non romantic time.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Seems reasonable. Okay. Shane or Ilya?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, Carly, have you watched Heated Rivalry?

[Carly Shortino]

I've seen the first episode.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh my God.

[Carly Shortino]

I know, I need to watch the rest of it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, you should. Also just like, given your field of study, I feel like it's like an important cultural phenomenon.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, now I'm even more interested to hear Carly's choice, having just watched episode.

[Carly Shortino]

Wait, side note, I literally just googled it before I came here, but now I forget. Wait, which is which?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, do you want the Russian or the Canadian?

[Carly Shortino]

The Russian one I feel more attracted to just because of his dominant energy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, same. Ilia has my heart.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I. I was gonna say Ilya as well for several reasons. One of which is it is established in a future episode that he's bisexual, so I can actually have sex with him because what would I be to Shane? Just his beard.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Shane is really hot though.

[Carly Shortino]

I. But I almost identify with him more. Like I want to be him fucking the Russian one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, all right. You know what, that transitions perfectly to our next question, which is if I think about heated rivalry while having sex with my husband, is this cheating? To which I say this is a lost storyline from what would have been the fourth season of. And just like that, because you can totally feel like Charlotte would start watching Heated Rivalry and then like accidentally shout out Ilya's name while having sex with Harry.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Ew. I would love that.

[Carly Shortino]

But I don't think that would have happened. Let's be honest, it would definitely Just have been like a new cancer plotline. Like a new form of cancer.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, totally. It's spread.

[Lauren Garrone]

What's unfortunate about. I mean, I love doing these hotline mailbag episodes, but I almost wish some of these. The person was on the line we could speak to because this one I have follow up questions which is, is it that you're imagining Ilya and Shane having sex while fudgeing your husband? Are you imagining one of them is fucking you and your husband is just like the real life avatar?

[Chelsea Fairless]

But like, does it matter? The reality of the situation is she's thinking about these fictional characters while she's fudgeing her husband. I personally don't think that there's anything wrong with that. I think like, broadly speaking, you should make an attempt to be present during sex. Like if you can only have sex with your husband while thinking about Shane and Ilia, then like, yeah, there's probably something wrong. But like, do what you need to do.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I think every once in a while it can't hurt. I mean, I do feel like this ties back to the how do we keep the romance alive in a long term relationship?

[Carly Shortino]

True. Yes. And to the point, whether it's cheating. I think cheating is indefinable. It's like only definable within you and the person you're in a committed role relationship with. But I do think, Chelsea, you're right, that the goal would be presence. Like in the reverse, would I want my partner thinking about some other woman every time we have sex? That wouldn't be like my goal, you know, it would feel like a little shitty. However, do I assume that every time I have sex with someone he's entirely present and no woman ever appears in the like the spectrum of his imagination? No. That's a big ask. I think.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think that's actually the perfect answer. Which would. If the roles were reversed, would this person think that it's cheating? If your husband was thinking about, you know, the lesbian sex scene in Black Swan, would you consider that cheating? And if the answer is yes, then I'm sorry, you cannot fantasize about heated rivalry while having sex with your husband.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, at least he has good taste if that's what he's thinking about. Could do worse than Black Swan. All right, another question. I need to hear everything about Carly's movie.

[Carly Shortino]

Oh, my God. Okay, well, I won't say everything, but I'll say some stuff. So it's called I Want yout Sex. It was directed by Greg Rocky, and we wrote it together. I wrote this movie the first draft of this movie 13 years ago, which is amazing and dark that that's how long it takes to get movies made. But it is a. I've been calling it a Dom. Com. I know people are calling Killian a Domcom, but I think it is. It's like a BDSM romantic comedy where this older woman is having a DS relationship with her assistant who is like this young ingenue who's never been in a situation like this, and she kind of blows his mind, and he becomes obsessed with her, and it kind of goes off the rails. But it's based on a personal experience I had when I was 25, dating a guy who was older and kind of introduced me to DS Dynamics. And, yeah, it was just really, really funny to watch this movie at Sundance in a theater. The genders are reversed, you know, so there's a young man with an older woman and just like to watch Cooper Hoffman play some alternate universe version of me, like, getting, like, dragged around by his hair, like, by Olivia Wilde. I just was like, what a fucking weird life experience.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's objectively crazy, but so cool. How was, like, the whole Sundance experience?

[Lauren Garrone]

You were there the final year. It will actually be at Sundance. They're moving.

[Carly Shortino]

I know. Which kind of makes sense because it is too small. But it was really fun. I'll say. Like, the actress Olivia Wilde and actor Cooper Hoffman are both so major, like, both in the movie and as people. I can't say enough about how cool Olivia Wilde is. She's, like, smart and hot and aspirational and nice and was just, like, so supportive of me in the whole process and, like, would shout me out in interviews, like, you know when you can tell, like, someone is making an effort to be supportive of you? Like, that's what her vibe was. So I'm like. Like, she's honestly really cool.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's amazing.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. Like, that's what you want from a celebrity.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Of course, that it's what you deserve. And I saw a Deadline article yesterday saying that actually, Lauren, you can explain this. I don't understand industry things.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, we will all get to see Carly's work in I Want your Sex this Fall because Magnolia has picked up the US Distribution and it's getting a wide release later this year.

[Carly Shortino]

Yes. Did it say fall? Actually, that's information I did not get.

[Lauren Garrone]

But I'm assuming fall. Sorry, it just said later this year.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, some point later this year.

[Lauren Garrone]

What is Chelsea's take on the JonBenet Epstein conspiracies? I was unaware that this existed. You sent us all an example. I don't like what I watched.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a very flimsy conspiracy, I would say.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm not even understanding what it is. So in one redacted photo, there seems to be a blonde haired girl who people are saying is JonBenet. So she's not dead. She was just trafficked to Epstein, I.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Guess, or he murdered her. I don't really know, like, what they think happened specifically. They just think that JonBenet is the girl in this photo solely because she has blonde hair and is wearing, like a little white shirt with a black jumper over it, which. Which is an outfit that I also wore as a little blonde child. So I just don't think that this conspiracy is that impressive. Personally, it would be one thing if the clothing was, like, extremely specific, but.

[Lauren Garrone]

It'S not if it was a girl in a pageant outfit.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, just like, generally, it drives me crazy when people, like, allege that, like, Jeffrey Epstein may have killed her traffic. JonBenet or like, Beyonce is like, eating children because it shifts focus towards celebrities and public figures and away from, like, the people in our communities that, like, are committing crimes against children.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, Jeffrey Epstein did commit crimes against children.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You know what I mean?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I do, I do. Yes. Does shift the focus from the real monsters that are hidden in our everyday lives.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I'm just gonna need some firm evidence that places him in Boulder, Colorado on Christmas Day in 1996. That's all I'm saying.

[Carly Shortino]

Well, I don't think he's the one stealing the children himself. He's not like, doing. He's got someone for that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, you bring up a great point, Carly, because in that video you sent Chelsea, this person is like. And someone left a comment on my Facebook that said that they saw Ghislaine Maxwell at JonBenet's pageants. And I'm like, one. No.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, the Ghislaine hairstyle was very popular in the mid-90s.

[Lauren Garrone]

My mom had that haircut.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. So it's like there's just. Yes, there's a photo of JonBenet and there's some woman that, like, looks as much like Ghislaine Maxwell as Diane Warren does. You know, like, sure, I could see it, but that doesn't mean that it's her.

[Lauren Garrone]

Right.

[Carly Shortino]

That is true with the haircut where I feel like in the mid-90s, when we were in school, when we were growing up, all heterosexual moms were just like, we're lesbians now. Aesthetically.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, they all had mushroom cuts.

[Carly Shortino]

Why? They all kind of neutered themselves. They would wear like turtlenecks and have like smocks.

[Lauren Garrone]

So many smocks.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And those jeans.

[Carly Shortino]

I will say you sent me that Epstein video and the first thing I saw was that my mom had reposted that. No. And I was like, my mom's in. My mom is in on this conspiracy theory I loved.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Did you call your mom?

[Carly Shortino]

No, I just saw it this morning. But I, you know, I can't wait.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love that. Also, can I bring up the fact that there maybe are some slut ever links in the Epstein files or do we not want to discuss maybe this.

[Carly Shortino]

Feels like the platform to discuss it, really. So I was alerted to the fact that I'm in the files, I guess.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, someone created an interface where it looks like Gmail. It's called jmail. And you can search all of Jeffrey Epstein's emails. And per his usual email writing style, it's just links to slutever articles and videos with no context, seemingly. To people.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. With no context.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, so he was sending videos of your show to. To who?

[Carly Shortino]

So he's sending them sometimes to himself. And then there is one or two where he's sending. Yeah, just a link to a Sled Ever episode, which is a. A documentary show I made for advice about sexuality, where the email is redacted. And that's what I'm curious about. Where Adri, who I made the show with, is the one that alerted me to it. And she was like, I think he was a fan.

[Lauren Garrone]

Question mark.

[Carly Shortino]

That's interesting. But I was like, I wanna know who he's sending the links to. And like, it is. I'm sorry to be laughing about it because it is so dark. And it's like one of these things where you're like, how fucking strange. But he has sent multiple episodes. One of them was the one about happy ending massages, which is so on the nose.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, my God.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

You think he was sending it to Clinton?

[Chelsea Fairless]

If you're on Clinton's radar. Oh my God.

[Carly Shortino]

That would be. I don't want to say the word cool, but it would be interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It would be surreal.

[Carly Shortino]

Certainly it's cool if a president is consuming your content. Even if that said president is like a real dark perv. Right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I guess. I think that's subjective.

[Lauren Garrone]

Regardless, I think you have the best kind of cocktail trivia, dinner party trivia of like. You'll never believe what I found out this week.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, that's like, if I get back on dating apps, you know, the hinge like two truths and a lie. It's like I'm in the Epstein files.

[Lauren Garrone]

Nice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Perfect.

[Lauren Garrone]

This feels like a hard transition into this. Next question.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Sexiest songs of all time. I like this question though.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I love this question.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I had to reflect.

[Lauren Garrone]

I guess you could look at this question two ways. Which is like, is this songs that are on our sex playlist or are these just sexy songs?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I think they're sexy songs.

[Lauren Garrone]

Cuz I would say like Janet Jackson has a song called Throb that literally, pun intended, climaxes with her orgasming on the track.

[Chelsea Fairless]

So that you think is the sexiest song?

[Lauren Garrone]

I think it's one of. I thought I would only have a couple of answers, but I got a lot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. I like two kinds of sexy songs. I like Sub Dom anthems like I want to be your dog by the Stooges, Slave to love by Brian Ferry, used so well in nine and a half weeks. But I also have a soft spot for like the 90s R B songs that were like, popular when I was coming of age. Like nobody by Keith Sweat, Red light special by tlc, which I felt were like very scandalous songs at the time. And Janet also like. I remember watching the music video for that's the way love goes and I was like, oh, I literally feel like I'm watching porn. Porn. Even though it's like not even that sexual of a music video.

[Lauren Garrone]

In retrospect, I do contend that probably the sexiest song of all time mixed with the music video would be Chris Isaac's Wicked Game.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's a classic.

[Carly Shortino]

Really? Oh, wait, what's the music video?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love your judgment. Wait, what's the music video? Oh my God.

[Carly Shortino]

I don't know. The music video. When I. The song is not sexy to me.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's him and Helena Christensen, right? Helena Christensen.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, It's a Herb Ritz music video. It's in black and white.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes. They're on the beach. It's extremely Sexy. It's extremely 90s.

[Carly Shortino]

And they're like rolling around like it's.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, yeah, sand is getting in places that sand should not be.

[Carly Shortino]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And like Helena Christensen's has like, great, you know, wet look hair and it's all very hot.

[Lauren Garrone]

You tell us your sexy songs then.

[Carly Shortino]

So. Yeah, I was judging you.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sorry, I. I don't care.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I love the judgment.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, well.

[Carly Shortino]

Well, you guys both picked things that are undeniably kind of have like a sexually charged energy. And I like that you distinguish. Are these songs we have sex to. Are they just songs that Kind of elicit something. Because if you were to put on any of those songs during sex, I think it would be so embarrassing to. You know what I mean? It's like, would set this tone that I think that if I had sex sex with that song playing, I would like spontaneously combust because the earnestness of the sexuality is like too much.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True. Like you couldn't have sex to like, I'll make love to you by boys to men.

[Carly Shortino]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Because that would be horrifying.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or to become one by the Spice Girls.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right.

[Carly Shortino]

So this is a song that I always use on Instagram over like sexy content. And it's Baccarat's Yes Sir I can boogie. Do you know that song? Yes, I love that song.

[Lauren Garrone]

It's like, like, like you have sex to that song. No, I would never have sex to.

[Carly Shortino]

Any of these songs. That's a thing. And I want to die even thinking about that. But it's like a song that if it comes on, on a dance floor, like it elicits something in me and I kind of feel like it's like fun. But I don't like. There's no song I want to have sex to. Sex dictates mood too much that like, I. I don't want there to be music when I'm having sex.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Oh, really? Yeah, I disagree. I mean, not always I don't require music, but I enjoy music personally.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I think like Glory Box by Portishead is a sexy song, something that can be playing in the background.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, all of those, like trip hop albums are very. That like, tricky.

[Lauren Garrone]

Also, of course, Sneaker Pimps.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if I do sneaker pimps 6 underground. Yeah, but like a full Sneaker Pimps album?

[Lauren Garrone]

No, no, no, no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Definitely not.

[Lauren Garrone]

No. You got to curate that playlist.

[Carly Shortino]

That's the kind of music that is played at sex parties that sort of like house. Would you describe that as house music?

[Lauren Garrone]

Trip hop? Yeah, yeah.

[Carly Shortino]

And while I don't like that kind of music, I am like, yeah, I guess this is the best music for the sex party.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, but isn't sex party also like industrial music?

[Lauren Garrone]

Ish.

[Carly Shortino]

But aren't those adjacent to each other? I'm not like a music.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, with some industrial music there's like, like electronic elements. You know, if you look at like Nine Inch Nails or something.

[Carly Shortino]

Right. I would say like house music as a umbrella term is mostly what's played at those parties where there's like an electronic component and it's more mood and vibe based and less vocals loud in the mix. Like, yeah, that is what I think is best for those kind of environments. Like, what are you gonna have, like, Rihanna playing at the sex party? It's awkward. It's like you don't want something to be intrusive in terms of like dictating mood too much. Right. In terms of sex.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. I've never thrown a sex party, so I don't know what kind of vibe I would be going for, but I.

[Carly Shortino]

Feel like it's the same as if you're just having sex, just two people. Like, are you gonna play Rihanna?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Not like S M or like pondereplay, but anti. I actually stand by anti.

[Lauren Garrone]

If anyone were to have sex to Rihanna, it would be Chelsea and Tatiana. Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Ew. Even I'm grossed out. But yeah, I think that's a great album. And it also came out 10 years ago. Can you believe that? That's how long it's been.

[Lauren Garrone]

And we're never getting another album again?

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, no. We just get the Smurf song and the Black Panther song, I guess.

[Carly Shortino]

My boyfriend when I was in my 20s, used to play Peruvian flute music when we had sex and I actually kind of liked it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It.

[Lauren Garrone]

Really?

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. There's something about instrumental being the right thing. I don't want to hear people saying things like, I get too distracted.

[Lauren Garrone]

You're having sex and you're starting to think about the word picture that the song is portraying.

[Carly Shortino]

It just gets like. I don't. Yeah, I. I feel like there's like this intrusive thing dictating mood or speed or pacing if music is too involved.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Chelsea Fairless]

All right, shall we do a hard pivot?

[Lauren Garrone]

Always pivot.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What are your favorite affordable luxuries? Ideally under $50. There's no good transition. Or maybe there is, but I'm just not capable of such things and who cares?

[Lauren Garrone]

This led to a lot of introspection because what I was thinking about this, my initial response were sweet treats or dessert. And I was like, that's very sad to think of food as luxury, but I think is indicative of the state of the world right now.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but like, what food are you talking about?

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know, like a little cake or a donut or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You are gonna recommend a donut?

[Lauren Garrone]

No, I. That was my initial thought and then I was like, that's incredibly sad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but what donut and from where?

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, are we going to Voodoo Donuts? Are we going to Krispy Kreme?

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I might go for an Aaron McKenna Bakery, which is a gluten free vegan donut. That's actually incredible. I know how eye rolly that sounds. No, my answer out to the gluten.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Free and vegan listeners.

[Carly Shortino]

Well, donut friend is also a vegan donut. That's fucking amazing.

[Lauren Garrone]

There you go. I don't know. A blowout.

[Carly Shortino]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What about you, Carly?

[Carly Shortino]

So I was trying to think of things that actually feel luxurious to me. And I'm someone who actually quite frugal with beauty products. But sometimes I feel like if you buy a cheaper beauty product, you can go ham with it. So I really love a luxurious experience. I like is I buy a lot of the ordinary serums and oils that only cost like $10, but if they only cost $10, you could like getting out of the shower, putting it on your face, on your neck, on your chest, on your, like, hands, knees, elbow, you know what I mean? Where you're like, like dousing yourself in oil and really having like a Skincare moment like that feels luxurious to me.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. You're not like, rationing your skin care products if you're using ordinary.

[Carly Shortino]

I use the ordinary and also Eucerin, like the very. I have dry skin so thick. Eucerin cream is like $20 from CVS. I was going to say.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, the drugstore brand.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. And you could go totally ham.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, good to know. I have seen this at the drugstore. I also want to talk about skin care stuff because I was going to pick the Welita skin food light and the light is important. The regular one too heavy for me. I also like the Welita Iris day cream because I was influenced by Courtney Love, who recommended it in a Financial Times profile.

[Carly Shortino]

What's the price point on that?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're like 15, 20 something in there.

[Carly Shortino]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, this is $55, which is slightly over budget, but I'm obsessed with the Suzanne Kaufman hand cream. I understand that this is like a disproportionate amount of money to spend on hand cream, but this hand cream smells like underripe bananas. I keep it next to my bed. It's not in a little tube. I don't like when hand creams are in little, like, painter tubes. I want to pump for that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And that is part of my nighttime ritual is my hand cream. And it's like one of the few things that I actually consistently re buy.

[Carly Shortino]

That's nice.

[Lauren Garrone]

Your hands do look beautiful and youthful, I must say.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Thanks, babe.

[Carly Shortino]

They do.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also am a big proponent of buying flowers from, like a wholesale flower place. Like, not like the supermarket or a place that upcharges. You, like, go straight to the wholesale market. If there is one in your neighborhood, I go to the one in West Hollywood would. And yeah, $50 goes a long way.

[Carly Shortino]

$50 also goes a long way on flowers at Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's is like a low key florist. They're really good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, yeah, Trader Joe's is good. Thoughts on Margot Robbie's Wuthering Heights press looks.

[Lauren Garrone]

She sort of locked herself into dressing on theme for press tours, didn't she?

[Chelsea Fairless]

And I see no issue with that. I feel like she looks incredible. Her stylist Andrew Mukamal is doing a great job. That Galliano look that he put her in with like the thigh high stockings, I feel like is one of the best red carpet looks I've ever seen.

[Lauren Garrone]

There's a lot of looks for the press calls. Like, they're not even for the premieres. It's like every city has a photo Call. And she's wearing the most major looks. I don't think anything will reach the height of what they did together for the Barbie press tour. Like, that is its own thing. But I think she's doing a great job. I think the Dilara Findiculu looks are great. There's one in particular where they have her looking like Gary Oldman from Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula. I believe that was the Los Angeles photo Call. Where she's got, like, little ruby red glasses that I thought was my favorite.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I like that she's wearing chokers. Like, the combination of a choker and a corset, I feel like is a timeless look.

[Carly Shortino]

And it makes it kind of modern too. Yeah, that makes me want to get a choker. Actually. I. I really like her looks. I mean, I'm not like a super fashion knowledgeable person, but I think it's adding an element of fun to a press tour. Like, why not? There's like a funny high, low element because you're kind of like, dressing on theme and, like, doing a costume, you know, but, like, why not? And also, I think it's so hard to break through in any way doing press these days that it really works.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I agree. And from a fashionist entertainment standpoint, it is quite successful. Like, this has given me a lot of content that I have been. Been consuming, enjoying. I think it's a great little body of work that they've done.

[Lauren Garrone]

Really. And, you know, shout out to Jacob Elordi as well. He's looking great on this press tour. I feel like he's not getting as much attention as Margot Robbie. Understandably so.

[Carly Shortino]

No, but they both look really hot. Like, it's crazy.

[Lauren Garrone]

I know. I'm excited to see the film because I feel like people are really hating on this film and, like, with Glee. And I know we're are kind of haters, but, like, a thing that I keep seeing from people who have seen the film is like, they have no chemistry. And I'm like, how is that humanly possible, really?

[Carly Shortino]

I haven't seen any of the discourse, but it does seem impossible also, because just being a good actor, you should be able to create some chemistry. Unless you hate the person.

[Lauren Garrone]

Some of the best on screen chemistry are actually from actors who hated each other off screen. So there you go.

[Carly Shortino]

Right. Neat.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Need your opinion on Chloe Maul's first Vogue cover and the New York Times interview with Anna Wintour.

[Lauren Garrone]

So it's Rosalia on the COVID I think it looks great.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's definitely a cooler choice. Of subject and choice of dress, which was like a Jonathan Anderson Dior dress than we would typically get on an American Vogue cover. Although I do think I am craving a little bit more of a point of difference with Anna, because this does feel quite Anna. And when Anna came in, like, she, like, did the hardest pivot with her first cover after Grace Mirabella. So I don't know. It's not surprising, though, now that I've seen that New York Times interview.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, yeah, I was going to say, if not for that New York Times interview with Chloe Maul and Anna Wintour, I had seen the Rosalia cover, but I didn't have the context that it was Chloe Mall's first cover, I wouldn't have known the difference. I agree with you. Like. Like, Anna Wintour's first cover in 1988 for Vogue was such a departure that, I mean, this might be apocryphal, but evidently the printers were like, is this the correct image for the COVID Which was. What was the model's name?

[Chelsea Fairless]

I completely forget.

[Lauren Garrone]

But it was the lacroix sweater in jeans, and the printer thought that it was a mistake that such a casual look could be for the COVID Oh, that's interesting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Right? And previously, in the Grace Mirabella era, they were all, like, tight beauty shots of models that were incredibly uniform for years and years and years. So it was just a departure from the formula that she had created for Vogue.

[Carly Shortino]

But it does feel like from that interview, the clips I saw, it's like, Anna's still involved. I wonder if Chloe Maul has been given free rein to just do whatever ever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, definitely not. She seems really, really involved. And I found Anna's body language to be really, really fascinating in that interview.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, and I was texting you guys about that interview before we recorded, because I was looking online, and I didn't understand the comments that people were leaving about this interview, because Chloe Maul, to me, says very rational things, like, oh, if I had an unlimited budget, like, I would build out our social team. I would build a better podcast studio. And I guess people online were like, she's no Anna. Why would she want such things? It's like, I don't know, pay the social team an adequate wage. That doesn't seem that crazy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, also, and then Anna kind of clarified to whoever was interviewing them, like, actually, like, our budgets are very healthy. Which was interesting. Like, she clearly didn't fully like the way that Chloe answered that question. Or maybe that she was more transparent about how. How she would spend the money. Or maybe it's just the acknowledgment that there's a big difference now between the budgets of the 90s.

[Carly Shortino]

That interaction was very interesting to me because it made me think, like, Chloe Mall's like, the mom Donnie, and Anna Winter's like, the institution, you know? Like, I thought that was a great answer from Chloe Maul, where it's like, also Vogue. You should have a podcast. We're all dying to listen to. Like, why don't you?

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, they do, but they should. I understand your point.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Carly Mall did host it at one point, so that's why she knows and that's why she's like, can we please get a better podcast? Podcast studio.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes. It's called the Run Through. The Run Through. And as people who have all done podcasts, what I heard, or the subtext I heard in Chloe Mall's answer was like, can we please have a soundproof podcast studio?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Lauren Garrone]

And not interns running through with racks that the mics are picking up.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. I feel like as Chloe Moll probably inevitably gains more power, that feels exciting to me. I feel like the biggest thing that stood out to me from the COVID is, is the choice, like you said, Rosalia is a cool choice, and that just felt like exciting evolution.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. It feels like a fresh version of the whole Anna thing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Although you're being. I think you might be a little optimistic in thinking that Chloe's power will just grow.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I wonder what this transition actually looks like, because it's very clear from this interview that Anna does not want to concede power, control, or even be perceived as someone that is retiring brain.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which is absolutely fine, because the things that Chloe is speaking to, which is the side of Vogue that she worked on, which is the digital side, which is where the profit center is, should be where the growth is going with Vogue. It's not in the print edition. The fact that they don't have signature personalities, digital shows, the number one fashion podcast is kind of crazy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They have 73 questions, which. Which they've done really well with that. And also the life and looks thing. I really like that they do. They did a great one with Miss Piggy last week that I want to shout out. And that's, like, exactly what I want them to be doing.

[Carly Shortino]

I haven't seen that. I want to watch that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also. I feel like we should note that it has been announced that Vogue will be only releasing eight issues a year instead of 12. But they are making the paper nicer.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which I appreciate, which I believe comes from Chloe Moll. Because I do remember when she was first appointed the editor in chief, or she doesn't even have that title right.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She has, like, editorial director of content or something like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

But she had made that point that she wanted to slow down the amount of print issues, but make them more of these artful collector's items.

[Carly Shortino]

That sounds cool. We don't need an issue, a pamphlet, you know, every month. It's interesting to me that it seemed like in that interview, Chloe was talking about paying the social team more. So I used to write a column for Vogue for many years, and I started. I think it was like, 12, 13 years ago. And I can't say I know exactly how things are going now, but the differentiation between the magazine and the website was, like, so hilarious the way it was at the time and for years. So it was like, when I first started, they were in Times Square, and then they moved to the World Trade Center. And it would be that the magazine was on the floor above, the website was the floor below. So it literally was like a high, low distinction, right? And the people that work for the website, it truly was like the serfs. There was, like, a complete. It was like the way they were treated, they got paid so much less. And there was also just a totally different standard. So, like, the magazine people still had to uphold, like, dressing a certain way. They had to be, like, approved by Anna. They had to wear heels. Heels, all the stuff. And then the website people, it was like, red. But it was cool because the people they hired for the website were people that were, like, young, queer girls, and they were just getting in all this fresh blood that never would have. Would have been approved for people to work at the magazine who have now, like, worked their way up. It was like the people that work for the magazine, basically, the vibe I got was that Anna almost, like, didn't consider them employees at the Vogue. They had to have their, like, lower level.

[Lauren Garrone]

And to be honest, watching this recent New York Times interview, I think she holds the same belief.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Also, I'm kind of like, why do they keep giving these exclusives to the New York Times? Like, they also did this when Chloe was first appointed. It's like, shouldn't Vogue be making this video? If they did, it wouldn't be as good because they would have cut out the moments of friction, of course. But I also think it was interesting because Chloe made a point of saying, like, look, I'm never going to be a sort of guarded, intimidating fashion person that's just, like, not who I am. Whereas Anna Wintour of course, is like literally the definition of that.

[Carly Shortino]

And that's what we want from her as well. I mean, totally. You're like, it's just like she's got to be that. She is that bitch.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This did make me like Anna in a weird way. I guess I just respect her, like unwavering consistency and her commitment to being the girl that she is. She just can't help herself, you know.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh no, she's going down with the Conde Nash ship.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Lauren, did you know that you can have a fun night without a hangover when you stop drinking alcohol and start drinking nowadays?

[Lauren Garrone]

That's right. Nowadays is a zero proof THC infused beverage that delivers a clean, balanced buzz. No hangover, no bloat, no regrets.

[Chelsea Fairless]

What I love about nowadays is the different options they offer. They have their canned cocktails in great flavors like tropical berry, citrus and my personal favorite, spicy lime. There's also two different strengths, a 5 milligram and a 10 milligram.

[Lauren Garrone]

But then there's also their spirit bottle which delivers 2 milligram, 5 milligram or 10 milligram shots of THC that you can enjoy by itself on I. Or mix it up like I do with your favorite flavored sparkling water.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're also releasing so many inventive limited edition flavors like black cherry.

[Lauren Garrone]

Nowadays has a quick onset time. The canned beverages are just 30 calories. And best of all, as we've said before, there are no hangovers.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Visit try nowadays.com outfit to get 30 off your order. That's trynowadays.com outfit or use code outfit at checkout out. Drink responsibly. You must be 21 or older. We have another voicemail.

[Listener Caller]

Hi, my question is if you had a kind of like hookup in a different city and you're planning to be back in that city in a few months, how close to your arrival should you let that person know or ask if they want to meet up? Thank you. Bye.

[Carly Shortino]

I guess it depends on how much you've connected with that person. Like if you're have consistency in texting, tell them in advance so you can make a plan. But if you're trying to be cool, I guess, and you haven't communicated at all, I would say I'm going to be around in a few days.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You'd say a few days.

[Lauren Garrone]

I take this call and this caller as someone that is going to whatever city or town for business or something. Like she's not expressly going to hook up with this person.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, you have one of two options which is you either tell the person ahead of time, whether that's a week, a few days, or you're already in said city. Let's just pick Chicago. Like, hey, so and so I just landed in Chicago. Want to have a drink tonight?

[Carly Shortino]

I wouldn't want someone to do that in the reverse. That's. You know what I mean? As someone who's like, busy and popular, like, you have to give me a notice.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. Okay. I said a week and a half. And then tat was like, oh, my God, that is so desperate. Like, if someone did that to me, I'd be like, ew. And I was like, what? And she was like, yeah, less than a week. Definitely less than a week.

[Lauren Garrone]

I feel like this is the sex in the city carnations conversation where, like, the person listening for this answer is just like. So I'm just fud.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, is a week. Can we agree that a week is okay, or do you really think it's like a few days?

[Carly Shortino]

I think a week is totally fine. Also, you could say anything with confidence. You could be like, say, we'll do your week and a half. Role play. Hey, I just found out that I'm going to be in Chicago the third week of this month for work. I would love to see you again if you're around.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm going to be the third week of this month.

[Carly Shortino]

I just mean, like, if you get your dates right. Oh, hey, I just found out I'm going to be in Chicago like, like from the 20th for a few days if you're on. I would love to see you. No pressure. You know what I mean? That doesn't seem.

[Lauren Garrone]

Are we writing no pressure?

[Carly Shortino]

I don't think you should write no pressure, actually. No pressure undercuts the confidence.

[Lauren Garrone]

I would agree. No pressure does mean there is pressure.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, I would say cut the no pressure, but just, I don't know, I don't think it's actually DESP to give someone advanced notice because everybody has plans and you're going there for work, you're going to be busy. If you want to see this person, you need enough advance notice that you're going to be able to find a time that works for both of you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly.

[Carly Shortino]

If you wait till you arrive, the chances of you seeing them go down a ton. Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

I'm also realizing this might be an age dependent question as we are middle aged to elder millennials where it's like, we need advanced notice. And I'm wondering if a younger person is like, I don't know what I'm going to be doing next week. Week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that's true. You have less like firm plans.

[Carly Shortino]

I want someone to book something interested dating in general, like letting it wing it. Oh, we'll play it by air. No, I want there to be a reservation at 7pm for at least four days from now. Like I need to be able to book around it. Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean I 100% agree for sure.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Definitely. Next question. Is having a boyfriend embarrassing? This question is referencing the viral essay that Shantae Joseph wrote for Vogue called Is having a Boyfriend Embarrassing now?

[Lauren Garrone]

Which good on her for having a viral essay that's very hard to do in the attention economy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I also feel like shout out to the Vogue social team. They were really good at like the photo edits that they used for this which was then syndicated across like many Vogues internationally because it was was so popular.

[Carly Shortino]

This article was so funny. I mean that was also part of it. It's so extreme. Basically opens with her being like, if someone so much as writes my boyfriend or my boyf on social media, they're blocked. I was like, that's so crazy.

[Lauren Garrone]

Definitely. If they write boyf, we don't need to be shortening boyfriend. I mean BF is right there.

[Carly Shortino]

No, but I think she means like even if she just sees things, she just locks the.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, she's sort of talking about two things. Right. Because she provides two scenarios which is this is in the context of these digital parasocial relationships we have with people we either know or don't know. And there are people who breadcrumb having a new person in their life.

[Carly Shortino]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

She gives the example of like you see a hand on a steering wheel or two glasses of wine and then there are just people who like hard launch a boyfriend and they become their whole person personality.

[Carly Shortino]

Yes. But she's kind of asking the broader question. She's talking about all these small ways in which people represent their boyfriend online and the fact that she feels like influencers used to display their boyfriends more. And she has noticed this trend where people are including their boyfriends in their content less. And she's using that as a way in to ask the broader question. Is having a boyfriend culturally embarrassing? Which I think is very funny.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. Because she's making the point that like you'll see a boyfriend's hand now like holding a glass of wine or something, but like you'll never see his face. Like it's very like low key.

[Carly Shortino]

She also said that this is. I've never seen this. That she's seen women blur out their partner's face in wedding pictures. They post.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's crazy. Either post your wedding or don't post your wedding. I will say she does talk about one friend of hers that was in a relationship for 12 years and never had a photo of that boyfriend on social media. And then they broke up and there was no digital cleanup. I think that really is at the heart of this essay which kind of in this second decade of social media that it's gone from people hard launching showing their partners on social media only for them to break up. And then there is that, as I said, digital cleanup which whether you know the person or don't, there is that parasocial detectiveness where you're like, oh, I think so and so broke up with this person. Like they deleted all of their photos photos together totally.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But is it even about that? Or do boyfriends not perform well on social engagement wise? Engagement wise. Like because you notice the difference between it's like if you post a photo of just yourself versus like a photo of yourself and a random person that your followers may not know who that is. Like that is going to get less engagement. So is this really just dictated by a desire for like she is saying.

[Carly Shortino]

This one influencer lost hundreds of followers when she launched her boyfriend. So I think that that is part of it. But I think that what is so interesting about this article is that that is representative of a larger cultural shift in essentially something I think is fascinating which is a reframing or re examination of a woman's role in a heterosexual relationship and the fact that that historically we're acknowledging heterosexual relationships and marriages in general. Men essentially just benefit more. And so there's this idea of like female singledom being like an empowering thing suddenly because you're choosing not to like quote center a man in your life. And while I will say I don't think having a boyfriend is embarrassing, I think being in a good relationship is great. I do think this article is representative of an exciting shift in terms of the way that we are examining relationships in general.

[Lauren Garrone]

Totally. No, it begs for some show that would be the Sex in the City of Today where it's like that dynamic.

[Carly Shortino]

Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

The premise of or the overall question in Sex and the City was this idea of the antagonistic relationship between single women and married women. And now as you're saying, it's almost the reverse. That being a single woman is aspirational.

[Carly Shortino]

I think like not broadly. Right. Like if you went to the Midwest and you were like a 40 year old woman in a conservative family who was single. I don't think anyone would be like, you go, girl.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, I don't know. The Mormon wives reality show, like, half of them aren't actually wives really. They're like ex wives.

[Carly Shortino]

Interesting.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or they had children out of wedlock. And that's very scandalous. But I think there is something more aspirational about being single in a way that it previously hasn't been.

[Carly Shortino]

And that there's a version of life where you are not centering a man or centering children. That is, some women are talking about as an aspirational choice. And I think that's cool. And it doesn't mean, you know, we always overcorrect. So as a society, we're like, having a boyfriend is embarrassing. And it's like, of course it's not. But I think it's cool that people have options for what are lifestyle choices that could be great for you. And being. Being in a heterosexual marriage and having children has always been the default of what you should want. And having these examples of like, no, I'm a child free woman who's single, and I actually am really happy and I get to do X, Y and Z. And I have all this freedom. And just seeing this as an example of a life you could aspire to is kind of new.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. Well, I was aspiring to that when I was watching Sex and the City. Even though Carrie's love life was kind of chaotic, I was still like, that's the life I want.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. And that is why the character of Samantha specifically is still one of the most groundbreaking characters in television history. Because she was doing this 25 years ago.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally. So ahead of the curve, truly.

[Lauren Garrone]

I think the most successful thing about this essay is just the very funny viral clickbaity title of the article, which is, Is having a boyfriend embarrassing?

[Carly Shortino]

It's true. True. It's iconic. I don't think it would have performed as well without a title. That was so good.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, yeah, I agree. But also, I just want to make the point that, like, having a partner of any gender can be embarrassing. This is not just specific to men. I mean, have you guys seen some lesbians on the Internet? Like, that is really embarrassing.

[Lauren Garrone]

Really?

[Carly Shortino]

What are they doing?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They're doing a lot. They're doing a lot of too much posts. Like, it's that kind of vibe, right?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Carly Shortino]

Yes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Speaking of Sex in the City, we got a great question. Did you hear that Sushi Samba is coming to West Hollywood?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, but when? Because the original article announcing this is from 2024. It said it would be launching in 2025. If you go to their website, which I put our email on the. The email list, they say they're opening this winter, which I think meant the winter of 2025. So. So when is Sushi Samba opening?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Not soon enough. It really is in the perfect location, which is on LA Pier between Melrose and Santa Monica. So it is like walking distance from the Abbey.

[Lauren Garrone]

It is a. Yeah, it's a block over from the Abbey. It's across the street from. You know how randomly through all of the decades of gentrification, this lumber yard has been able to survive? That's what it's across across from.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, it's like near the Chrome Heart store. Also, it does look like a restaurant.

[Lauren Garrone]

In Dubai and they do have a location in Dubai.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yes, it. This Sushi Samba does not have the delightful like 90s does 60s feel of the Sushi Samba that was on Sex in the City. The one that used to be in the West Village.

[Lauren Garrone]

No. But according to its website, the stunning new venue will feature a breathtaking rooftop space with multi level open air dining.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Dining.

[Lauren Garrone]

A private dining room with its own dedicated entrance. That's I assume when where Timmy and Kylie will be entering from. And a state of the art retractable roof.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We actually don't have enough open air dining in Los Angeles. I'm constantly complaining about it because I go to Sydney a lot and it's like they actually just have nice outdoor restaurants and we should.

[Carly Shortino]

It doesn't make any sense. That's what we have to offer.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's like totally crazy. Crazy. Although this Sushi Samba, it has to be cheaper than Uchi or else why go there?

[Lauren Garrone]

Uchi is a sushi restaurant which would be diagonal from the Sushi Samba location on Santa Monica Boulevard, which is an Austin based sushi restaurant that has come here, which is very good but pretty expensive.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I feel like if Sushi Samba wants to do it right, they have to be like at least 30% cheaper than that. If not more.

[Lauren Garrone]

More. You hear that Sushi Samba.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Just saying.

[Carly Shortino]

They can't get by solely on Sex in the City. Nostalgia forever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No.

[Lauren Garrone]

We might be the only people that remember it or think of it as related to Sex and the City.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Anyway, if anyone's doing the PR for Sushi Samba, please, please hit us up. We can't wait to go.

[Lauren Garrone]

Which Sex and the City boyfriend of the week was the best lay all day?

[Carly Shortino]

Of course I'm gonna say John Slattery the politician. Okay, we didn't really see them fuck. But he was, to me, for Carrie, the man who got away. He's so charismatic. He's, like, so sexy, so confident. When you see them make out, it's very passionate. He's kinky. Obviously, he wanted her to pee on him. I'm like, the possibility there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know he's kinky and he has his shit together.

[Carly Shortino]

I. I know.

[Lauren Garrone]

And on the kinkiness scale, I mean, on the lower end of asks, I would say yeah.

[Carly Shortino]

And it wasn't an ask immediately. They'd been dating for a while, like, weeks before he brought it up. So it's not like he needs this. It's not a fetish where it's like, unless there's P, I can't come. Because that's some people. As we all know, we do.

[Lauren Garrone]

I was gonna say Ray the jazz musician. I don't know what was going on during that second episode that he appears. Perhaps there was an Adderall shortage and he was without meds and his, like, special hyper focus was making Carrie orgasm. But I think he was the best lay of a boyfriend of the week.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, but his hat choice was just so unfortunate that, like, I don't know, that would be hard for me.

[Carly Shortino]

He was wearing a fedora.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. Yeah, a pork pie hat. I believe Big refers to it at one point.

[Chelsea Fairless]

More of a pork pie hat, which makes it even spookier on some level.

[Carly Shortino]

There has been some discourse recently where ADHD guys can be really good in bed because they can get into hyper focus mode when going down on you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Interesting.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't know if now I should admit that Paul has adhd.

[Carly Shortino]

Give us the tea, Lauren.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I mean, Chad has ADHD also, and no complaints.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, well, I've ADHD and I don't want to finish.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, well, thankfully we have another Sex in the City related question.

[Carly Shortino]

Hi.

[Listener Caller]

I am a lover of the show, and I'm pretty sure you guys have already recorded an episode on Sex in the City. Episode? Well, season three, episode nine, Easy come, easy Go. But my question or my confusion comes in with when Samantha has to give head to the guy, you know, at the end when he's like. She wants him to, like, taste it or whatever. So does she not give him head so that he can try his own cum at that moment. Moment. And then she has to give him head again, even though she didn't want to give him head in the first place. Am I, like, thinking too deep into it or what? But yeah, that. That's my thought. My name is Imani. Also, I'm calling from Atlanta, Georgia, and yeah, I love you guys. Thanks. Bye.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, you're not overthinking this. And.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And she raises a good point.

[Carly Shortino]

Very good.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. If there's any podcast to call in about this particular question. Look, I had never thought about this before, and I went back and rewatched the scene because I guess I had always thought he jerked off. But when you watch the scene, I assume she has blown him. But. Yeah, unless he's tasting his own precom before she continues to blow him and he ejaculates. Carly, thoughts?

[Carly Shortino]

I have actually thought about this before, and I remember thinking, like, maybe it's the pre. Com. That would be what I imagine in the writer's room. The logic they brought themselves to and able to make the joke.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, but even if it's like, pre. Com, like, something had to happen. She had to blow him or he had to jerk off. No.

[Lauren Garrone]

A little bit, but potentially not to completion.

[Carly Shortino]

But it looks like in the scene, she's blowing him. She's like, almost like, coming up for air. He's tasting it, he's disgusted, but he's like, I'm okay with it. And then she goes back down. It kind of feels like. Right.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's absolutely what happens. I think we just need to suspend our disbelief for the sake of a good punchline.

[Carly Shortino]

Yes. Which I think logically can make sense if you argue that it's precum.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But if it's not precum, then she just fully had to blow him twice. Back to back.

[Lauren Garrone]

Back. Well, I asked Paul about this because I'm like, could a guy have that fast of a refractory period? And he's like, it's not impossible. He's like, it is impressive. So it could be possible.

[Carly Shortino]

But it's also like, so what did she do? She. He came and she didn't swallow it, and she came into her hand or into her mouth, and then she spit out. And then he tasted it. It's like, why can't you just not swallow it? Just don't swallow the cum if it tastes bad.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, well, we should have had you on this episode. Once we. We've talked about this. It's like, once we get through all of the Sex of the City episodes, we're gonna do them again, but with guests. So we'll have you on for that episode. You can really break down the logic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. Isn't the solution just, like, him, like, coming on her tits or something? Like, am I crazy?

[Lauren Garrone]

No.

[Carly Shortino]

Yes. You can blow someone to completion, and then the moment before they're gonna come like, yeah, sorry, I just did a.

[Lauren Garrone]

Hand motion of moving the dick away from your face.

[Carly Shortino]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Another hard pivot. Can you discuss Bianca Sori's Vanity Fair interview? She was profiled by Anna Peel. I was fascinated by this article.

[Lauren Garrone]

Holy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't think there was any advantage to her giving this interview at all. She should remain unknowable, that's for sure.

[Lauren Garrone]

I don't mean to be a bitch, but, like, she has a personality disorder, right? At the very least, she's got codependency issues.

[Carly Shortino]

Well, she literally says that. She's like, and I'm leaning in. I love it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know. To me, I'm just kind of like, why did she do this? Because it genuinely doesn't seem like she has ambitions to, like, I don't know, start a lifestyle brand or something. Like, she doesn't need to give interviews to, like, sell her jewelry or do her performance art or, like, whatever it is. Also, any journalist that writes about her is going to have to use the words anti Semitism, swastika, you know, sexual assault. The journalist asked her about this sort of public perception that she's being trafficked in broad daylight. Like, it adds a level of darkness that she can't really escape from.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, then she also adds a level of darkness as well. Like the anecdote that she tells from her childhood about how she would compulsively call her father when she was a child to ask when he would be home. And if he wasn't home at the exact minute he said he would, she would incessantly call him and scream, you're a liar. You're not here. Why would you do that to me? And then she's like, I wasn't able to regulate for my whole life. I also pair bond so intensely and so deeply that that person becomes part of me. That's my person. You know that movie together where they're getting into each other's skin? I love that one. That's kind of who I am. So shout out to Alison Brie and Dave Franco.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, that was a great movie. I love that movie. I get it.

[Lauren Garrone]

She also says that her and Yay are the same person.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, I was, like, really putting your foot in your mouth with that one.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She appears to be in some sort of, like, fashiony Dom sub relationship where her life is, like, also performance art on some level. But I don't need to read a quote of her literally saying, like, I live my artwork or whatever. You've said too much to that point.

[Carly Shortino]

Where she's better, unknowable. The journalist does ask her toward the end, you know, why are you speaking now? And she's like, well, I'm speaking now because I have something to say now. And I didn't have something to say that then. And I was like, I just read this whole article, and I could not, for the life of me, with a gun to my head, tell you what you have to say. You didn't say anything. All you said was like, I love him despite he's a Nazi. We. We got that by you being in a relationship with him.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, is the thing she had to say that she evidently had a crippling benzo addiction. She had to go to Spain to go to rehab.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. That I appreciated knowing about. Well, like, I learned something there, and I want to learn things about her from reading this. Like, we're all curious about her some level. Well, I'm also interested in the fact that her next performance art piece is about the way that children are presented by their parents on social media. I'm like, okay.

[Lauren Garrone]

I mean, that seemed like a subtweet about Kim and the whole Kardashian family.

[Chelsea Fairless]

For sure, which I think is a extremely fair criticism.

[Carly Shortino]

But she also says that she wants to have kids. And I'm like, if you have kids with Kanye west, if you have continued to procreate with him, like, these kids are not going to fare any better than the kids he already has.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Like, yeah, best of luck. Look, I. I'm glad that I read this profile. I thought it was fascinating. I thought it was very well written. I noticed that when Vanity Fair posted about this on their Instagram, they were met with a great deal of criticism. And I think that if maybe more of those people had actually read the article, which I do think is deeply unflattering, then maybe they would feel differently about it. But I get it. It's like, you see these, like, glamorous images of her, and she is, of course, a very glamorous person. But I don't know. I don't think that covering someone is necessarily the same thing as co signing on them.

[Carly Shortino]

It's really deeply unflattering. And as someone who used to write celebrity profiles, I feel like the journalist in the quote she chose and the fact that they kept in, like, the likes and stuff is in a way trying to highlight the fact that she does not think that she is a smart person. The predominant feeling I have in reading the article is like, this is a deeply sad situation.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, also, the Journalist made sure to include the part where she talked about being the most googled woman of last year. And the fact that she suggested to this writer that that information should be passed along to the editor in a bid for the COVID of Vanity Fair, which she did not get. Margaret Qualley is on the COVID of this issue.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, it does feel like the takeaway is you are married to someone who has self proclaimed themselves multiple times to be a Nazi because you like the perk of the attention it gets you. That feels like the takeaway and history has not been kind to those people. And like, I don't know. I don't know this person. Maybe she's a good friend, maybe she's kind in various other ways, but there was just like a darkness to the way that as a journalist is, you know, making her confront these things. Like you said, you know, you know, there's all these instances, horrible things I didn't know about, accusations of sexual assault with various women on sets of music videos and stuff with Kanye west. And Bianca Censori is condoning it. She's basically being like, in order to make some art, you have to break some eggs. Is that's not the quote, but that's what she's saying. Like, yeah, these things wouldn't be okay at a office, like when HR department, but we're making art here, so this is just the consequence of something great. Right, right. And it's like, that is so dark.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, also, the. The abandoned projects they had like the school, the different architectural projects where they were going to fix homeless housing. All of this abandoned.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, isn't that just kind of like classic, like manic depressive behavior to like fixate on something and then move on?

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, we just are doing it in a smaller scale where it's like, I'm gonna clean out my drunk drawer. And that's like, no, I'm not.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yet another hard pivot. But what are our thoughts on these new yassified American Girl dolls? So American Girl launched, I think, earlier this week, Modern takes on the classic doll. So Felicity, Kirsten, Josefina, Addie, Samantha, Molly. I think I got them all. I guess Y2K kind of versions of.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I know. I love how they gave Kirsten, like a fake Vivian Westwood handbag. I don't know. Just to clarify, these dolls aren't replacing the OG dolls. They're just a new line of dolls that American Girl has released.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, as the tagline says, ever wonder how our historical characters might dress? Today, the Modern Era collection opens a new chapter on Beloved Historical characters with a reimagined take on their original facts. Fashions. Like, for instance, Felicity, who had that dress. That dress is now just a shirt, and she's got jeans with bows on it.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's a corset top, which I think that this is a cool idea in theory, but I just don't like the way that they modernized the clothing. It's just. It's ugly clothes. Like, they look bad and they're all wearing mini skirts, which I find to be disappointing. Apart from Felicity, who, as you mentioned, is wearing like a skinny jean or something. Something.

[Lauren Garrone]

My first American Girl doll was Molly. And so I sent the updated version of Molly to my mom last night, and she was like, what is with this short skirt and these glasses? Let's just call them what they are. They're bratified American Girl dolls.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, their faces are a little different also.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, it turns out I was not wondering what was my favorite American Girl doll, How would she dress today? But you're the dollar doll expert, you know, like, how did these dolls compare to great dolls of the present day?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Well, I think they look like. Compared to, like, dolls that American Girl is already making. Like, for me, they either had to skew a bit cooler like this. Had to get into sort of like Marc Jacobs heaven territory. And it almost does with a couple of them. I would say Kirsten, who is looking pretty sceny. Molly even kind of of could have like that. I can see an alternate world where there's kind of a more heaven version of that look. But yeah, I just don't think these girls look cool.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, they also seem to be a different size. Sorry, I'm just clicking on the Molly one. And they show old Molly with this new bratzified Molly. And she's just. She's smaller. She's ozempic.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's like two thirds of the size. She's not as tall.

[Carly Shortino]

She's not just thinner.

[Chelsea Fairless]

She's a little. She's not just thinner, she's just.

[Lauren Garrone]

She's smaller.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That would be major.

[Carly Shortino]

She'd be on a today.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, what's next?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Is it safe to date a guy wearing a quarter zip?

[Carly Shortino]

I mean, with caution, right?

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's hard because I feel like some of the hottest and chicest guys do wear quarter zips, but also like weird tick tockers and stuff. Who's chic that wears a quarter zip? Yeah, I don't know. Like Matu Blasi, the new Chanel designer, came out in a quarter zip when he gave his bow for his first show. He seems like a chic, non embarrassing guy. I mean he's gay, but I'm probably.

[Carly Shortino]

Missing the, the cool quarter zips. I, I, when I think of that, I just think of like guys in San Francisco.

[Lauren Garrone]

That's what I was going to ask because I felt triggered by this because I do wear a quarter zip. And I guess the question is like, is this a guy's uniform? Like is he wearing this, this in his off duty hours or does he have a tech job and this is what he wears to talk about like fanduel with his other tech bros while waiting in line for sweet Green or something.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I assumed this was referring to knitwear and not like a quarter zip, like fleece.

[Carly Shortino]

That's immediately where my mind goes, is like a fleece quarter zip.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah.

[Carly Shortino]

Tech Bay Area. This is not like the worst possible thing a man can wear. Like this is like, I'm sure I've men who have worn quarter zips a million times, but it's not aspirational.

[Lauren Garrone]

Correct. I mean I think we went over what the worst thing a man can wear and that's a pork pie hat or a fedora.

[Chelsea Fairless]

True. I also I want to touch upon an article that you wrote recently for your sub stack hotline, which was about dating in fashion and sort of asking the question, like, can you date someone whose style you think is gross?

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. I mean it's complicated, right?

[Lauren Garrone]

Because you don't want to be this.

[Carly Shortino]

Sort of judgmental who's like, I'm never going to date a guy who wears a quarter zip. Because if you are that icked by superficial things, you probably will never have a boyfriend.

[Lauren Garrone]

However, it could be indicative of incompatible personality things.

[Carly Shortino]

Okay. It might seem superficial to judge someone for having like a Burning man wardrobe, but that guy very likely also has like a Burning man house and Burning man life goals. So like, do you want that to be your husband? Like these are reflections of greater values in our lives.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah. And it's one thing like if you do want to do ayahuasca like 50 times a year, then, then great, you're aligned on that level.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah. Like I think the style choices we make are the most simplified, externalized examples of what we value in our life, how we want to be perceived in the world. Some people opt out of that. Right. Like I think some people are kind of an anti style in a way where I think that's okay and that's better often than having an extreme style that's missing like a pork by half hat. Right. But if Someone has a style that you really actively dislike. I think that that often is representative of a larger differences. Right. It's like, there's less of a chance that you're gonna like the same movies. Right. Like, if you move in together, like, good luck decorating your house. Like, these are things that actually are deeper than just like, okay, I don't like this guy's quarter zip or whatever.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, that's so true. It is an early indicator of. Of household decor. Like, if you are going to move in with someone, be at least somewhat aligned in that department or at least have a. A place where you can find common ground and compromise together.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. I feel like another version of this is like, I could never be with someone who didn't have a sense of humor. Yeah. Like, I say this all the time of, like, what do couples do that don't laugh together or joke about stuff?

[Chelsea Fairless]

They sit in silence at restaurants and we sit see them. You know, it's horrifying to even be around that.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, it's very scary. But I mean, could you date someone whose style you hated?

[Lauren Garrone]

Do you think there is someone who just isn't into fashion and doesn't have a sense of fashion that you could, like, maybe introduce them to things? And then there is someone that has to use your Burning man example, like, or, you know, a steampunk aesthetic. I probably couldn't be with someone that dressed steampunky because that is indicative of a lifestyle that I'm not down with.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, you have to, like, only date other steampunks, I think.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, you said it better than me. Right. Where it's like, if there's sort of just opting out, that can be okay. Because you could probably take the lead if you move in together. They're just gonna, you know, maybe even learn from you and be inspired by you. There's another version where someone dresses in a way that is so not your style, but. But it's good for them. If you like a surfer or like, a skateboarder, where you're probably like, if I went into your space, this would not be, what an aspirational of the kind of house I would want to live in. But, like, you appreciate the aesthetic from a distance.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Totally.

[Carly Shortino]

I think I could do that. Even though it might be difficult if you moved in together.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I feel that for sure. I lost 110 pounds last year. Not me. This is a listener question. Never interested in lingerie before. Now I am. Where should I start? Start.

[Carly Shortino]

I actually think I have some good advice for this so, okay, I'm maybe making an assumption about this person, but if you've lost a lot of weight, that does impact your boobs. Okay. I naturally am someone with, like, droopy boobs that needs, like, quite a bit of support, but they're also big. And it's hard to find bras that are, like, orthopedic in a way, in their ability to hold up your boobs that also are pretty. Like, a lot of lingerie companies. Companies, they don't hold up your boobs. And I'm assuming if this woman lost a ton of weight, she might need some support.

[Lauren Garrone]

Are you about to recommend Sydney Sweeney's lingerie line?

[Carly Shortino]

No, I was thinking of Chantel. Okay.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. Yeah.

[Carly Shortino]

So Chantel is. I have found as someone with having big boobs my entire life. It's, you know, their bras are like a hundred dollars, but they last a really long time, and they're pretty, and they are like, support. I actually brought one. I actually wore one so I could show you guys. So let's see her. So this is functions both as lingerie, and there's, like, matching if you want. But this is an everyday bra, so. Okay, look, it just looks like a good bra under this tight, like, T shirt, but it's also really pretty. Ooh, gorge.

[Lauren Garrone]

See?

[Carly Shortino]

And it's doing a lot of work.

[Lauren Garrone]

Your boobs look great in them. They do.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And that's great advice. I agree that after, like, a weight loss, I think you want. Want stuff that supports you, holds you in. You also can like, find that after weight loss, like, you can really, like, snatch your waist down more, you know, than you previously thought. So it's like, I would gravitate towards, like, bodysuits and, like, that, I guess on the lingerie side of things, although I have no brand loyalty, I find shopping for lingerie to be extremely difficult.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, we also got a lot of questions that were some variation of, like. Like, is there a solution for not crazy expensive, but still actually nice lingerie? And there's a brand that my husband actually introduced me to called Maison Clothes. That's pretty look. You can get, you know, bras and panties that are under $100, very good quality. They also have, you know, corsets that are hundreds of dollars, $700. My other recommendation would be do not sleep on the agent provocateur sale set section. I went to go look, and there's stuff that is half price, and then right now there's an extra 40 off. So.

[Chelsea Fairless]

See, I feel like if I was looking at the Asian Provocateur sales section. I would find the panty in my size but not the bra or like. And that I hate. I honestly, I hate lingerie shopping because I'm not spending Agent Provocateur Le Perla money on lingerie. So there's that. I'm not doing Savage Fenty and their like Fabletics Esque Grifter business model.

[Lauren Garrone]

Recurring credit card charges, you mean?

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes I get stuff from skims, like the Valentine's Day skim stuff usually gets my ass. And that is not super expensive again, sure they have a few things that I think might be like a few hundred dollars or something, but you could get something good for 50 bucks if you needed to. Although sometimes I do just go to the Bloomingdale's lingerie department if I'm really desperate. It at the Century City mall or like the one in midtown in New York. But like I often leave empty handed from doing that.

[Carly Shortino]

And that sounds mentally exhausting.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Horrifying. Although at least you can try things on. That's the problem with constantly buying from a Savage Fenty or a skims or whatever.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yes, but then you have to deal with a saleswoman and I always feel like sales women in the lingerie departments are like on your ass constantly. And it's like. Can I just have a minute to breathe? I don't know what I'm looking for. I don't know what I look good in.

[Carly Shortino]

I know it feels like time traveling. If you know what brand you like and what fits you weirdly, you can find a lot of resale of like these fancy lingerie brands on ebay and Poshmark new with tags. I don't know why, but there's a ton and maybe it's cuz like you're buying it and it doesn't fit. I don't know.

[Lauren Garrone]

Or I would assume that's the case.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, or something someone gets it for you. But like it's. There's a lot out there.

[Chelsea Fairless]

That's a good tip. Okay, we have a lingerie adjacent voicemail.

[Listener Caller]

Hi Lauren. Hi Kelsey. Longtime listener, first time caller. I tried to look up Sydney Sweeney's lingerie website to see the shit show myself. And because the name makes no sense, I typed in Siren to Google. S Y R E N. And the first hit is a women shotgun website. As in firearms for women. Coincidence? I don't know, that seems pretty right wing grifter to me. Anyway, love you guys. Bye.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Say what you will about Sydney Sweeney, at least she doesn't have her own line of firearms?

[Lauren Garrone]

Not yet.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And having visited the Siren website, the S Y R E N website, I just have to say these guns are not feminine enough for me. Does anyone else feel that way? Way, like, if they're four women, like, they shouldn't all be, like, it's like it's too much wood.

[Carly Shortino]

You think they should be pink?

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, the. Yeah, the color choice they've chosen. I guess there must have been a conversation in the Siren boardroom, which I imagine is just like, exclusively women that look like Laura Loomer or something was, like, pink. Too girly. That's what they're gonna expect. Purple. Let's do purple instead. To answer your question, Chelsea, I think it's less about making shotguns that are girly, instead making shotguns that focus on, as their website says, proper fit, reduced weight, and recoil management for hunting and sporting that are more suited to women compared to men. I guess the issue is these male shotguns are just too heavy.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay. And that makes sense, like, as a. A functional point of difference that sets them apart. I just think that maybe if they're trying to market firearms towards women, they should maybe look at, like. Like, I don't know, examples of, like, stuff in fashion and design that is marketed towards women. Like, they could learn a thing or two from makeup companies about what a woman might want to have in their home.

[Carly Shortino]

What is their market, though? And how do the women who are buying these firearms dress? Are we imagining some kind of, like, hunting wives fantasy version? Or is it just like, well, they also make clothes.

[Chelsea Fairless]

I don't know if you saw. They make, like, high visibility vests. Vests and stuff like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

These women all have mar a Lago face.

[Chelsea Fairless]

They look like that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. These women tuned into the Turning Point alternative halftime show.

[Carly Shortino]

And those women, they look like. Right. Like, that aesthetic is so bad.

[Chelsea Fairless]

It's bad.

[Carly Shortino]

Well, they look like, actually, no.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, moving on, Moving on. Is it toxic to send my myself flowers from a secret admirer if my partner is against Valentine's Day?

[Carly Shortino]

Yes.

[Lauren Garrone]

This is diabolical. But I will say there's like, an angel and devil on my shoulder. Like, the healthy, securely attached side of my personality is like, don't do that. If you love and respect this person, it will fundamentally undermine the trust in your relationship. And it's like, is possibly damaging this relationship with Worth just proving a point. But then there's the fuck it, chaos demon part of me that's like, you know what? Why not send yourself flowers, see what happens.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But what's demented is the acting that you would have to do, like when the flowers come. And when your partner asks, like, where do these flowers come from? You'd have to do like a bit. Yeah, you'd have to be the psychopath. It's like, oh, I have no idea who sent them.

[Lauren Garrone]

Well, then also you would have to write, this is all Cher Horowitz behavior from Clueless. Like when she's trying to get Christian to be interested in her. She sends herself, I think she sends herself flowers or chocolates or something. And it's like you would then have to write a fake message to yourself, like, thinking of you on this day, love, you know who.

[Carly Shortino]

And then he's gonna find out and know that you were doing a bit and you're gonna look completely insane. I think a good question to ask is like, could this be the first scene of a movie as a way to represent that someone is like batshit crazy really fast? And if the answer is yes, like, don't be that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Is this something you could imagine Joan Cusack doing in a film from the early to mid-90s?

[Carly Shortino]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But also, I want to know why her partner is against Valentine's Day.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah. If it means this much to you and your partner won't even put up a little bit of effort because this means. Means so much to you, then like, I would question the relationship.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah, like, it's one thing to like, not give a about Valentine's Day, like that's like normal. But if you're with someone that's obsessed with it, I don't see the problem with rising to the occasion. Because all Valentine's Day involves is like, really, like going on a date or getting flowers. Yeah. Which you should be doing anyway periodically.

[Carly Shortino]

Right. Like, if it's some anti capitalist list, I don't want to subscribe to this stupid corporate holiday. I totally get that. But if it's meaningful to your partner, do something that doesn't cost any money. Go for a picnic.

[Lauren Garrone]

Wait, are we on the side of. Of this person sending themselves flowers to teach their partner a lesson? I feel like we've come all the way around.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I'm not advocating that kind of behavior, but I do think that she, maybe instead of doing this, this should have a conversation with her partner. Like, maybe he's not even aware of how much she cares about Valentine's Day. And maybe if he knew that she was like, in such a dark place that she was contemplating doing something like this, he'd be like, oh, maybe I will take this out for dinner.

[Lauren Garrone]

Sorry, my mind just went to this person listening to our podcast having that conversation and then them coming to a meaningful conclusion where like, the boyfriend's like, I didn't even know this meant so much to you. And she's like, yeah, you know, I was going to send myself flowers just to make you jealous. And he's like, like, he breaks up with her once she admits that.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah, communication is the answer, but maybe not so much honesty that you say that.

[Lauren Garrone]

Yeah, I'm glad we role played this.

[Carly Shortino]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Okay, so that's the last listener submitted question that we have. But I do have an apology. Lauren doesn't have one this week though. How nice. Nice.

[Lauren Garrone]

Oh, I'm sure I will have a lot to apologize for next week because of this episode.

[Chelsea Fairless]

You didn't up at all last week, though. But I did. And I need to apologize to the Quebecois because last week I was talking about the fashion label Matier Fical and I was like, they're Canadian. Why did they choose to have the name of their label be in French? To which many people pointed out that they are from Montreal, which is in Quebec, which is a English and French speaking province of Canada.

[Lauren Garrone]

Although if you ask any French person, they do not consider it real French.

[Chelsea Fairless]

But don't say anything that you're gonna have to apologize for next week. I said this about them because I've heard these designers talk and they have voices like Lauren and I. Obviously my first thought wasn't like, this is an English as a second language situation. And I don't know that it is. But anyway, the way they're from Montreal, if they want to name their fecal matter brand Fecal matter en francais, that's fine by me. I will continue referring to it as fecal matter because I think that it's funny.

[Carly Shortino]

Okay. This apology, I feel like most therapists would reject that. Like, how much of an apology that was.

[Chelsea Fairless]

No, I am sorry. And I have spent a lot of time in Canada. My dad's side of the family. Family lives in Canada. So I. This is.

[Carly Shortino]

They're making it about you.

[Chelsea Fairless]

This is something. No, it's not as if I was unaware of this and had to be educated by people. I was more like, oh, yeah, I shouldn't have said that. That was dumb. Obviously, people speak French in Canada, which really.

[Lauren Garrone]

Carly, Our new apologies and correction segment is more for this of us being dumbasses and apologizing for our dumbassery.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Yeah.

[Lauren Garrone]

So this was a long walk. 1. We've probably satisfied the ads with the length of this episode. But if you are Looking for even more Valentine's Day romantic, lustful themed conversations between Chelsea and I. We did a recent VIP episode called Sex in the Cinema. The best movie sex scenes where Chelsea and I go through our favorite sex scenes in film. It seems to be popular amongst the Patreon. They do enjoy this episode. So this might be a yearly tradition. Maybe we'll have you on Carly next year.

[Carly Shortino]

Would love that.

[Chelsea Fairless]

And Carly, before you leave us today, plug your sub stack.

[Carly Shortino]

So I have a new substack. It's all about sex and relationships and attempts to be funny and it's called hotline but you can find it by Carly Shortino on substack.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Fabulous.

[Lauren Garrone]

There you go. And we'll be back next week. Carly, thank you for stopping by.

[Chelsea Fairless]

Thank you for joining us as always.

[Carly Shortino]

Thanks for having me. Guys. Guys.

[Lauren Garrone]

All right, guys. We'll be back next week.

[Carly Shortino]

Bye bye. Oh.

[Lauren Garrone]

Happy Valentine's Day, everyone.

[Carly Shortino]

Support is available 247 with Verbo cam care.

[Chelsea Fairless]

We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help.

[Carly Shortino]

Because a great trip starts with the right support.

[Chelsea Fairless]

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[Carly Shortino]

This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. Space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal. I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels.

[Lauren Garrone]

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[Carly Shortino]

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[Lauren Garrone]

And I get peace of mind knowing.

[Carly Shortino]

I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else. Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now you can get an extra $100 to shop when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com.